Comments on: Promises, promises

By: nate

nate — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:06:35 +0000

People here failed to actually research the findings of the study.
Dr. Bernadine Healy, who is the former head of the Red Cross as well as the National Institutes of Health pointed out why the study Josephine quoted produced the results it did. Janet Elise Rosenbaum, who authored the study actually got her desired results by comparing teens who have taken the pledge with religiously conservative teens who did not take the pledge. In other words, she compared two very similar groups. So Dr. Bernadine Healy, who today works as the health editor for U.S. News & World Report actually took the time to study the report and discovered what many religious conservatives have known all along; teens who take a pledge to remain a virgin until marriage are less likely to engage in sex.

By: mouseman225

mouseman225 — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:58:27 +0000

Preach, albatross! That’s exactly what these “abstinence only” programs are. It makes a parents life SO much easier when your son or daughter crosses their heart and hopes to die that they will never have sex! WHEW! Now that that’s taken care of, I can go about my merry life and never have to have one of those uncomfortable “talks” with them. Personally, I’d rather be more involved than that in my child’s life. Especially on something that can be as life-altering as sex. Kids, STDs, hell even the mental scarring that can come if they’re not ready or get taken advantage of. Personally, as much as I don’t like the idea of her having sex, I’m going to stay involved in my girlfriend’s daughter’s life if we’re still together and keep up to date on what’s been happening so I can talk with her and be there for her. Thatll be my job as a parent, correct? I’d much rather have her come talk to me than be scared to because sex is an off-limits topic, which is how I was raised. I learned about sex from my friends and the internet because I had no adults I could talk to without feeling like I was dirty for even thinking about it. I think all kids deserve better than that, an I know for sure I want to provide better.

By: KOlson

KOlson — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:27:58 +0000

Nate, I’m glad that the pledge worked for you and that you’re happy about the choices you’ve made. That’s anecdotal, just as my earlier anecdotal evidence about my own choices, reached via a far different path.

What I’m trying to get at here is that many of us–myself and most people I know–are not against pre-marital sex. I would never preach that to my children, though if that’s what they chose I would fully support them in their choices.

I think we’re talking over each other because too many of us see the ultimate goal as “no sex until marriage,” when that’s not completely accurate.

Many of us are seeking *healthy* sexuality–including abstinence–that, no matter what, doesn’t lead to complications such as pregnancy, STDs, and the kind of shame that leads to the lying and denial shown in the originating article.

We’re not all going to agree on “no sex until marriage” so I find it counterproductive to behave as if that’s the *only* objective; we sell our kids short when we pretend that it’s so.

By: Kenneth

Kenneth — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:25:44 +0000

Part of the problem readers are having is that the summary provided by the journalist did not explain the study well. The study is nationally representative by design; sampling statistics were used to select subjects stratified by age, race/ethnicity, geography, etc. such that each subject “represents” many other very similar teens; i.e., the responses aren’t biased by the particular characteristics of the individuals who were chosen. This is a result of it’s careful design; in addition to it’s representative nature, it is also much more statistically powerful than it would otherwise be given the sample size. So contrary to the unsupported assertion of “hdsteare”, the study is very unbiased, and in contrast to Mark’s reasoning, inference can be drawn from these statistics and the conclusions can be considered reliable.

To the Reverend (”Abstinence is possible says”), who wrote, “The implication is that abstinence only education doesn’t work…faulty conclusion.” - is exactly wrong; the study’s conclusions follow directly from it’s findings. In a nationally representative sample of US teens, 5 years after they were asked if they did or did not take the abstinence pledge(i.e., they either did or did not receive the abstinence sex ed), the two groups did not differ in self-reported sexual behavior over the intervening period. I.e., the study found no evidence that the abstinence sex ed led to reduction in teen/young adult sexual activity. This study was exceptionally well-designed and conducted, and was properly analyzed. Pediatrics is a top tier medical journal; this paper was likely highly scrutinized before publication.

By: KOlson

KOlson — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:22:23 +0000

Abstinence is possible: “Interestingly enough, I read this story on yahoo and it had more information. One of the pieces that the yahoo reporter mentioned that wasn’t mentioned in this article was that religious youth delay having sex until later in life. One of the contributing factors to this is a support network that encourages abstinence.”

I don’t doubt this is true…but the point here is that studies such as this one have shown over and over and over and over the last few years that abstinence-only education in public schools is counterproductive.

You may be right about religious youth in pro-abstinence households surrounded by pro-abstinence infrastructures, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about *all* youth–or do you only care about those who share your religious beliefs? I don’t think that’s true at all.

If we’re all looking to decrease unplanned pregnancies and the incidence of STDs, then we have to look beyond philosophy and find what’s *practical*, and the studies, over and over and over again, have shown what works best.

Nothing’s perfect, of course, but what works best, time and time again, is comprehensive sex education. What you choose to promote in your own family, with your own religious ideals, is your business…but don’t put it onto my kids.

By: Justin

Justin — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:21:55 +0000

The level of willful ignorance of statistics here by the detractors of this study really grinds my gears (I teach college level social science statistics and research methodology).

1. 300 is a decent sized sample if it is well chosen.
2. Statistical significance is not related to the fraction of of the population that the sample represents.
3. The pairing of subjects is helpful, though not strictly necessary.
4. Statistical significance is not only a function of the sample size, it is also a function of the size of the effect.To pick up subtle differences between groups, you need a large sample, but not so for large differences between groups.
5. Replication can make us more confident that results are true, and this is not the first study that has cast doubt on abstinence only sex ed and virginity pledges

By: Nate

Nate — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:02:54 +0000

Jason,

I somehow missed the part of the story that said Sarah Palin’s daughter took the pledge.

By: Nate

Nate — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:00:37 +0000

I made a pledge as a freshman in high school to refrain from sex until marriage. This was in the late 90’s. I abstained until marriage, 7 years later. The pledge made an impact on me.

A number of my close friends took advantage of the free condoms distributed in the Minneapolis public schools (where I attended as well) and were all quite sexually active not long after. The good part is that none of them, that I know of got HIV or AIDS. The funny part is a number of them got their girlfriends pregnant. So…either the “protection” everyone says is so effective wasn’t effective, or…maybe teens not taking the pledge were a bit more likely to then go on and have sex - or maybe…those who didn’t make a promise didn’t do so because they knew they were going to have sex and didn’t want to be hypocrites.
I have to agree, regardless, though, 300 is such a minuscule number it can not even pretend to give accurate results.

And I’m not surprised to see someone who worked for planned parenthood for five years to say they agree with the story’s findings. I’m sure they’d also say that statistically abortions are emotionally and psychologically healthy and beneficial for the mother who aborted.

By: Greg Andrew

Greg Andrew — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:55:17 +0000

What’s not being considered here at all is the ethical implications of this study. If kids are pushed into making pledges that they later convince themselves that they never made, will that make the more likely to do similar things in the future? Does it make them more likely to have little regard for the importance of the pledges they will make in the future? Are they more likely to break their marriage vows than they otherwise would be, or testify falsely in court after pledging to tell the truth. I’m not saying I know this to be true - maybe it is just the age they make these pledges at and denying that they made these pledges doesn’t have any future consequences because they grow up - I just think it’s important to investigate the possibility that pushing teens to make these pledges turns them into less ethical adults.

By: Abstinence is possible

Abstinence is possible — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:16:02 +0000

Interestingly enough, I read this story on yahoo and it had more information. One of the pieces that the yahoo reporter mentioned that wasn’t mentioned in this article was that religious youth delay having sex until later in life. One of the contributing factors to this is a support network that encourages abstinence.

The attack on “the virginity pledge” is a strawman to make abstinence only education look bad. While the comparison may have a separate matched comparison group, the key to their choices lies in the standards and influence of their support network.

Abstinence is possible. Yes, a one time pledge probably won’t be enough to make it happen, but it can be done. And while a condom may protect a person from some STD’s, it won’t protect teens from the emotional baggage that comes from teenage sex. Our teens deserve the best that’s available for them.