Tuesday morning update
Posted on February 26th, 2008 – 8:33 AMBy Joe Christensen
Rod Carew and Paul Molitor held a meeting for leadoff hitters this morning. Among those in attendance: Carlos Gomez, Denard Span, Jason Pridie and Nick Punto.
Things are moving quickly today. Most players are in Hammond Stadium, starting their workout. And a bunch of them will had to a back field here soon for a scrimmage against Concordia. First pitch, 9:30 a.m. (Central).
Twins lineup:
Denard Span, CF
Matt Tolbert, SS
Brian Buscher, 3B
Garrett Jones, LF
Tommy Watkins, DH
Jon Knott, RF
Randy Ruiz, 1B
Felix Molina, 2B
Drew Butera, C
Kevin Mulvey, Philip Humber, Oswaldo Sosa, Deolis Guerra and Armando Gambino will pitch for the Twins. … Nick Blackburn, Juan Rincon and Carmen Cali will pitch for Concordia.
That might be a skeleton lineup, but after watching practice all this time, I’m anxious to see some game action.
71 Responses to "Tuesday morning update"
What was Nick Punto doing with the leadoff hitters? Was he holding their bats for them?
Punto was there as an example of what NOT to do in the leadoff role.
Nick Punto, lead off hitter, those phrases should never be used near each other, other than in jama’s scenario.
Nick Punto and hitter are two phrases that should never be used close together.
Maybe they were showing him how to put down a bunt!
Punto once hit .290 in the Big Leagues.
Span once hit .267 in AAA.
Who is less qualified?
Here’s a flimsy defense…
Punto, that was a career high, and that is his ceiling.
Span - Still a prospect (I know, hold your giggles) so there is still a chance he has a ceiling
very true ds….
he might become the next big guy!!!!!!
do i hear barry bonds anyone?
Alright, lets see what those Mets guys can do. If they can handle Concordia, the Tigers lineup will look like creampuffs;)
Apparently Punto still has those compromising Gardy photos.
I wish someone would just take Punto out back and shoot him.
Enough already.
Yeah, it’s a favorite topic to pile on Punto. But all I know is, if I were in that camp as a player and Rod Carew was holding a meeting about hitting (regardless of the subtopic), I’d make a point to be there, too. I give Punto credit for recognizing that a guy like Carew might just have something to say that he could benefit from.
ok i just looked on wikipedia and I looked up punto….
definition: a common swear word saying that someone in baseball cant hit
For all the Punto haters out there, let me say this. Even though Punto struggled last year, he still drove up pitch counts to at least 5 pitches, sometimes 10, on many occasions on tough pitchers who were dominating our team. Even if .290 is his ceiling, it was his ceiling for a year. And to prove that most of last was indeed a slump, he hit close to .300 for the last month of the season in 2007. So with his speed, his ability to play 3 infield positions, and his ability to take pitches (which we know Gomez has yet to acquire), he certainly belongs in the discussion of leadoff hitters.
I do like the joke about the compromising photos of Gardy. But seriously, some of you have very short memories, and didn’t see much good that Punto did last year while he struggled.
I assume Felix Molina is playing 2B, right? (Not Jose, who I believe is with the Yankees?)
And, Armando Gabino, right? Although, we could start calling him The Great Gambino!! After what he did at three levels of the minor leagues last year, including a 0.00 ERA at AA, maybe the title would be appropriate.
To say that Little Nicky hit .300 vs September call-ups pretty much says it all, and if he hits .300 in Spring Training I am still hoping that Bill pulls a Juan Castro on him by the All-Star break.
Shannon
No, I didn’t see much good that LNP did last year at the plate. Especially when he repeatedly failed to execute the simplest of tasks that he was asked to do: lay down a bunt. We do not need a lead off hitter who “drives up pitch counts.” We need somebody who can hit the darn ball and get on base.
Kay,
Your line:
“Apparently Punto still has those compromising Gardy photos”
is a classic!
Please replay it whenever appropriate this season.
Wake me up when something happens.
I think Nick Punto is very much like David Ortiz was when he was here. If you put Nick Punto on the Redsox, he would bat .325 with 25+ HR and be a regular all-star. The twins just can’t get their guys to produce.
LNP4LIFE-Obviously,an attempt at sarcasm there.Being a person of limited sports ability,i have tendency to admire professional athletes(vs envy).What say you.
same here. usually in action figure form.
but maybe i shouldnt have lost my nick punto voodoo doll under my couch last season.
personally, i don’t think punto deserves most of the bull he gets on here. Is he a .300 hitter, no. Is he a .200 hitter, no. he is somewhere in between. Thats why it’s an average. he just had one great year and one horrible year. that said, he does what ever is asked of him to the best of his ability and the other guys love him. He may not be worthy of a starting role, but losing him would make the Twins a lesser team.
i will come to the defense of punto after having been critical for a long time. he is playing in the majors which means he is a talented baseball player, what nearly all of us dreamed about. he is a utility player, however, and a decent one when used in that role. it is gardy’s fault that he keeps trying to make him an every day player for whatever reason being the pictures or just being stupid. i can’t, however, defend the fact he can’t bunt.
gosh!!!!
NO SAYING PUNTO!!!!!! YOU CANT SWEAR ON THE BLOGS!!!!
Every team needs a Nick Punto. They just don’t need him as their starting third baseman. The way I see it, Nick only made two big mistakes: having a great year in 2006 and not pleading with Gardy last year to take him out of the lineup. Player like Punto can contribute if you let them stay where they belong. Notice that nobody is pushing Cuddy to play the infield anymore? Not even as a backup. Another example: LaTroy Hawkins. Hawkins was a poor starter and a worse closer. He found himself as a setup man. So well that he got big free agent bucks from the Cubs, who promptly named his as their closer. He was a complete flop.
Mauer hits .293 one year and its a terrible year.
Punto hits .290 one year and its “great”.
That’s hilarious.
In his “great” year he was still one of the worst hitting ML 3B and not particularly good defensively that year either. In his terrible year he had one of the worst hitting years in baseball history, that’s hard to do.
Nick Punto makes me miss Denny Hocking, badly. That being said, he is a fine utility infielder, but I haven’t heard Gardy even begin to pretend he won’t start him this year. Harris is not great defensively and Lamb is worse. Punto will start 120 games this year I bet.
A better way to put it is Punto will start in about as many games as the Twins lose, 90-110.
gee, Denard Span gets his first career start in a Twins Uniform…
hopefully the equipment manager burns it in effigy after the game so this never happens again!
Punto is like the teacher’s pet that everyone disliked in school.
Its not his fault.
When Gardy starts treating him like everyone else, people (me included) will get off his case.
Palerider,
Great comparison! Thank you for brightening my day.
I don’t blame Punto because his former GM inked him in for an everyday role after one good year as an everyday fill-in and 10 sub-par years as a futility infielder. I don’t blame Punto when his manager kept sending him out there in the number 2 spot in the order, when he had no business hitting near the top of the lineup everyday. Those things are on the GM and manager.
I do blame Punto for not executing on the fundamentals. When you’re not especially talented, there are only two things that can keep you in the majors: hard work and fundamentals. Punto has the hard work thing down. But he is the most fundamentally unsound utility player I’ve ever seen.
He can’t bunt. He can’t steal. He strikes out way too much. He has trouble getting the bat on the ball when all he needs to do is hit a weak grounder to second. And don’t get me started on diving for everything (bases and balls) when he could where he needs to go faster by running than diving.
Punto could be a useful utility player if he at least tried to work on the fundamentals. If he does try, he forgets everything he works on in games. But I can’t endorse a guy who’s supposed to be a utility player when he can’t do the little things.
Nick Punto is a utility player. The last time the Twins had a utility player starting was Denny Hocking. Those were some very gross years when that happened. Utility players are not starting players. That’s why they are called utility players.
has anyone ever considered that Punto may have been on the juice in 2006. That year got him a 4 year contract and his pension. That seems like a good incentive for a guy who may have been out of the league without that year.
Hocking once hit .331, 7-81 in the minors.
The Twins waited ten more years for it to happen again.
BSizzle,
Yeah, Punto on the juice!
After hitting 1 home run per year, he deserves a refund.
Punto, Castillo and Tyner shared a six-pack of the stuff.
I am not buying that one!
Sane,
Home runs are as much a product of swing planes as anything. Mauer hits for singles and will never hit more homers unless he adapts his swing. All it would take is more quickness in the hands for extra juice on the ball to get it through the infield. Look at his strikout rates. Except for 06 he was prone to strikeouts. A little boost in batspeed can make a hitter. Thats what he got, just enought to make his hits hits.
BSizzle,
So then everyone who improves anything is a suspect.
I’m still not buying it.
Who should have been at that meeting: Alexi Casilla, Joe Mauer, Brendan Harris.
Speaking of Mauer. Good to hear that he has decided to start ripping the ball. Picking some spots to turn on one would make him and the Twins much more dangerous
When your average jumps 60 points in one year, contract year- staying in league year, and then plummets down 90 points the next, something might be up. Take it as you may, but it’s definately possible. Staying in the league would make me think about it. Bussing around the minors wouldn’t be very appealing when you’ve been to the show. you have to aknowledge it’s out there and happening, even on the twins. These guys are making a living, and the pension, and the long term contract they sign makes it worth it for the marginal player to take a chance on hanging around and getting paid. otherwise what is it worth. What do you have to show for it. Gotta think of his family. You can’t deny this
BSizzle,
I’m giving you the last word, because I am out of this discussion.
Rod Carew giving hitting tips…crap…I’d fly to Florida to sit in on that one. And I doubt I’d know which way to hold a bat!
Yeah, it’s a favorite topic to pile on Punto.
No kidding. Yeah. He’s not a good player. Now let’s move on and find something worth talking about that hasn’t been said a million times.
When Gardy starts treating him like everyone else
I’ve yet to see any good discussion as to how he was Gardy’s pet. Considering for the first 4 months of the season Gardy wasn’t given any other option (except for Luis “Hey I’m a Twin remember?” Rodriquez and Jeff “Ow my knees!” Cirillo)
The Mitchell Report was full of names no one had ever heard of, so nothing is impossible. But Punto, wow.
T,
How about on Sunday when Gardy said that Brendan Harris (an MLB full-time SS at TB) was not a good enough infielder to play 2B for the Twins.
Guess who steps in as the Twins 2B for 2008?
Harris can be a liability with range, and glove, it’s turning the double play that matters at second.
How about on Sunday when Gardy said that Brendan Harris (an MLB full-time SS at TB) was not a good enough infielder to play 2B for the Twins.
Nick Punto was a full-time 3B. Juan Castro was a full-time SS. Cuddyer was a full-time 3B and 2B at one point.
“What’s my point?” you ask. My point is that playing a position full time doesn’t automatically mean a player is good.
Guess who steps in as the Twins 2B for 2008?
Did he specifically name Nick Punto? Or is this just the usual “OMG Gardy’s an idiot he’ll probably put Morneau behind the plate!” type of assumption?
I see those so much these days.
i do find it hard to believe that Harris isn’t good enough for second though.
It depends on what Gardy considers “good”. They’ve had some dang good fielders the past few years. To the point that guys like Buscher and Harris look bad simply by comparison. (Buscher booted balls…but how much of that was rookie nerves..and how much of that was also comparred to Punto’s glove for almost a full year)
BSIZZLE-see if i have this right.Nicky made a conscious decision to hit well in his contract year.Then he made a conscious decision to hit 90 points lower the next year(huh).It seems that Nicky controls when he gets a hit or not.Ted Williams move over,here comes Nick Punto.Please,please,please, explain the logic here
Not to mention that those whining that Harris’ is obviously good enough will likely be the same ones screaming that Casilla or Bartlett “would’ve had that” when he boots a ball on the a clutch play.
That’s just the mood these days. No-win, all-lose, no-fun.
T,
It is hard to believe that a full-time MLB SHORTSTOP is not an adequate defensive SECOND BASEMAN.
Shortstop requires more defensive skill and range than 2B.
Please,please,please, explain the logic here
The “contract year” is something that happens frequently (see Hunter, Torii c. 2007)
That’s not entirely what happened to Punto, but the idea is that a player has that extra motivation to perform because they’ll put up some absurdly good numbers just in time for contract talks.
In Punto’s case, I imagine it’s less a contract year situation and more that the league figured him out once he became an everyday player.
It’s the same reason that Redmond is very useful off the bench, but if asked to shift to an everyday role would likely see his numbers drop.
Look at Lew Ford. Came out of the minors on fire and never caught on once word got around to scouts.
Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel…after their hot 2006 seasons the scouts hit their notes big time. Why do you think everybody throws a strike right down the middle at Mauer on the first pitch?
no, i’m saying he didn’t have the help of quicker hands and bat due to HGH use.
T,
I don’t do much whining and screaming.
T,
great point on the scouting reports. Pitchers aren’t going to let inferior hitters beat them. They adapt and change. I put the HGH thing out there as an idea that hadn’t been discussed. You have to recognize the possibility that guys use it to hang around the league and fight off more talented younger players.
Pitchers aren’t going to let inferior hitters beat them.
Nor will superior hitters let pitchers beat them.
That’s why I’m especially interested in how guys like Jacoby Ellsbury and Philip Hughes will do following the mass amounts of hype surrouding the Santana trade.
Now they’re names are out there, on high profile teams, and they’re supposed to be pretty good. So now that the scouts start eyeing their weaknesses…can they adjust?
Same as Gomez. He sorta “snuck in” and nobody thinks he was worth the deal that was made. So he may have a chance to get really hot for a season before he starts having to play the mind game with opposing pitchers.
T,
that’s one reason i didn’t like Ellsbury coming from the RedSox. I thought they were trying to sell high on him. He is bound to come back a little this year. Given their respective skills, from what I have heard, Gomez has the better skill set.
One reason i’m liking the Santana trade for the moment. Plus, Guerra could be really good.
The game is played between the ears
Big day for the misfits of Punto —- first game of ST, and it’s time to exorcise everything Punto, once again and, hopefully, once and for all.
Maybe this will help.
Punto during the 2006 season — although a few PA’s short of officially qualifying for stats — was in the top 10 OBP in the American League…until he petered out some in September, and his BA fell down to .290.
But payback’s a bitch, and he was of course miserable last season — until September when he petered in and hit about .290 for the month.
Of course Punto-bashing is a sport, and we all have to have our fun.
But his contribution in the last half of 2006 — when the Twins probably had the best half-season in MLB history — was marvelous. And he showed some of his 2006 form last September.
So, he still deserves at least a small chance at recovery. And he doesn’t deserve the TOTAL gang-bashing he’s been getting.
He still has a chance to be about the best utility infielder around.
Okay, now you can gang-bash me.
So, he still deserves at least a small chance at recovery. And he doesn’t deserve the TOTAL gang-bashing he’s been getting.
I figure Punto in Minnesota will probably never get a fair shake at the utility role (his name around here is so hated he coud play once a week or fill in for a guy on the DL and still get a “WTF is he doing in the lineup!” response).
At the end of the year when his contracts up, the Twins need to let him go. I don’t think they can give him enough of a paycut to justify the mistake of a raise they gave him going into 07.
That is unless he settles back into the utility role and does a solid job backing up guys like Harris, Everett, and occasionally Lamb (provided Macri or Tolbert isn’t around by then)
Nick Punto isn’t backing up anyone. He will be starting shortstop and second base opening day, all by him self. Nobody has Nick Punto range, add on the howitzer for an arm, it’s unstopable. For Nick Punto not to get to a ball, it will have to be off the Baggie, and high up too, cuz he has the hops to leap a regular fence. Oh yeah
T, of course he’ll get the “WTF” around here. But what about in the clubhouse, FO, and coaching staff? Cuz that’s where it counts.
And he’d better have a good season bunting too. And oh, that head-first slide…..
Neither a lover or basher of Punto am I.
I remain much more pissed and/or concerned about Ulger, Gardy and the FO (Ponson, Castro, Ortiz, Livan, fat Boof, Cirillo) than Punto.
LNP4LIFE-I’m glad Nick can play two positions at the same time,that way the 12 man pitching staff almost makes sense.I wonder if the relief guys get enough innings with 7 of them.I hope they go back to 11 after the first month.
If Nick Punto ever hits leadoff I personally will make sure Gardy gets fired.
Dan-How are you personally going to get Gardy fired?I didn’t know Carl had a son named Dan.I must be awesome to have such power,Dan
Name me 5 mlb players that can bunt and steal these days. The only thing MLB players are interetsed in today is hitting the ball over the fence and driving in runs. Lay off LNP. He will be fine in a utility role.
Geno
I am not Carls son but I have my ways.
Dan,
It is an honor to meet a real VIP impersonator.
If you get Gardy fired, I will personally make sure YOU get fired.
I have my ways.
Wait a minute!
What were we talking about?
Man GENO, only a minute ago I start thinking, “Why the hell do we already need 12 pitchers to start the season?”
Maybe it’s a surefire way of getting Liriano eased on board.
romer,
Teams need extra pitchers to start the season because their starters (and long relievers) have not yet had their innings and pitch counts stretched out.
That is to say, the starters pitch 2 innings their first ST game, three the next,then four,five,etc.
By Opening Day, your starters may be stretched to 6-7 innings and you neeed 3-4 pitchers per game. So you need a larger pitching staff then you will need later when starters can go 7-8 innings (you hope).
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