Liriano not sharp in second outing
Posted on March 12th, 2008 – 12:48 PMBy Joe Christensen
FORT MYERS — The Boston Red Sox scored on Francisco Liriano in each of the first three innings of his start Wednesday.
Twins manager Ron Gardenhire pulled Liriano with no outs in the third, after David Ortiz drilled a run-scoring double to right field, giving Boston a 3-0 lead.
Liriano threw 53 pitches — 25 balls, 28 strikes — and struggled to command his fastball, change-up and slider.
His line: 2 IP, 3 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 1 K. (Pitched to two batters in the third inning).
Update: Liriano said his arm felt good even and said he was pitching with about 90-95 percent effort, compared to the 80 percent he was using earlier in camp.
“I’m almost there,” he said. “I feel more comfortable in the last two innings. I was trying to let it go.”
Liriano said Gardenhire told him not to worry about the results, to just work on his pitches and get ready for the season.
“I think I have enough time to stretch out and be ready for the season,” Liriano said.
164 Responses to "Liriano not sharp in second outing"
From listening the the radio, doesn’t sound like he has even used his slider yet.
Are you able to tell if he is attempting to throw it and it is just not there yet, or has he been using a curveball as John and Dan are saying?
Opening day rotation:
Livan
Boof
Perkins
Slowey
Blackburn
Liriano has a long way to go. No confidence! Is he throwing 89-90 again today?
They said only 88 on the radio.
I didn’t see a single slider today, but I didn’t see every pitch.
There is still 3 weeks until opening day. That is at least 6 more starts. Give the kid a break. He has not faced major league hitters in 18 months!
He will need sone time to rehab….and to you everet fan…..where is baker in your rotation???
I agree Jerry but it does seem odd that he’s lost that much velocity they said when he came to camp he was throwing in the mid 90’s i wonder if he was throwing a lot of change ups or if he’s being told to hold back on the fastball.
LoyalBBfan: Gardy speculated that Baker could open the season on the DL.
Sounds like Baker has a good chance to start the season on the DL, probably why he left him off.
Jerry D - 2 weeks or so to decide on the rotation. You don’t decide March 30th who starts. 2-3 more starts not 6.
“I think I have enough time to stretch out and be ready for the season,” Liriano said. - apparently he thinks its possible but even they are admitting the timeline is tight.
Mulvey meets Manny and Big Pappy. Could have been worse.
Gladden says Franchise will only get 15-18 innings this ST.
Redmond, who’s live from the dugout, says Franchise is still getting the feel for the slider.
Have to remember, Livan is too.
The low velocity is troubling; but it’s probably part of the plan.
Only 2 weeks, 4 days left in ST aafter today.
WOW…nice play Gomez! Way to try to give away the job.
Gomez is such a kid. Doesn’t have his sunglasses on, let a ball drop for an RBI.
Sounds like Morneau makes a double-goof on a grounder. Run scores.
whats the score?
Aren’t these guys suppose to get better as Spring Training goes on? They seem to be getting worse.
6-2.
Twins bats pathetic with what figures to be close to their opening day lineup.
Some days you’re the dog.
Some days you’re the fire hydrant.
Jeff is going for his oxygen.
Joe Mauer’s brother says it’s the best Joe has ever felt in ST.
Thanks for the HR, Joe.
Mauer just blasted a pitch over the fence. Sounds like he is having a pretty good day, Gladdo says he hit balls hard in all 3 at bats today.
How am I sposed to be interested when superfan isn’t here doing the play by play?
Looks like the Gomez audition is all but over.
Mauer POWER!!!! haha, I wish, well actually I hope someday soon.
Why do you say that romer? Just because he has been utterly terrible this spring?LOL
Romer,
He’s been pretty awful at the plate but I won’t say anything is over until at least March 25th.
Ichiro still doesn’t have a hit yet in ST. That’s how meaningless much of ST really is.
Ruiz pinchrunning for Morneau. Beautiful! Wish I were there!!
halfchest ST is meaningless to Ichiro because he’s a proven hittter who already has a job every bat in ST is critical for Gomez
Why wasn’t Gomez on base for that HR??? The pitcher must have been thinking Mauer, Mauer, Mauer or maybe Span, Span, Span???
Gomez still looks foolish at the plate, looked like a fool with no glasses in the outfield today.
He doesn’t seem to be adjusting to his opportunity to start, or to Twins coaching.
Can’t compare his ST to a veteran’s, especially Suzuki.
Yeah as a big Gomez supporter, I am disappointed.
Unless he has a huge turnaround, I hope he starts in AAA. I just do not want to see us reward him after he lays an egg in a critical ST. Span has an OBP over .450 so far, heck throw him out there. If in a month Span is struggling and Gomez gets it together we can promote him…
That’s 3 two-out RBI’s for Harris today.
Thank God, he’s finally coming alive.
i want to like joe vavra, can anyone tell me what he has done …his successes, failures..or just what does he do…does he have philosophy on hitting….dislike the long ball or ??
good for harris just putting one out…
brendan harris hr? i like it!
What does any hitting instructor do? Make suggestions. It is still up to the player to put that into use.
Harris getting some good wood on the ball today. Good to hear.
That a boy Harris… thanks for showing up.
Don’t worry about me, Amigos I am still in the Dominican where the cerveza is cold and the chicas are hot.
Pridie in CF batting .304.
Gomez in the barn, batting .148.
And Pridie is not a candidate for CF?
Lucy, you gotta lotta splainin’ to do.
And what does Ulger do? Is he just a lackey boy for Gardy?
Sam - I assume no matter what his philosophy was before he came here Gardy forced him to adapt the “single back up the middle” approach. I think his successes are supposedly Bartlett, Kubel and maybe Cuddy. Hunter even hit for better average lately. Not sure if you can credit him with that.
maybe that hit will kickstart harris in the right direction…i was beginning to get impatient with him, but iguess time will tell….i think spring training is too long….time to get down to the real thing….
Monroe would be good in center field. That would allow at least two of the other candidates for centerfield to obtain more seasoning at AAA level. Monroe has a tendancy to strike some fear into opposing pitchers and can adequantely field the position. It would greatly add to the overall productivity of the lineup.
well i saw that show last year that showed alot of vavra, and hes a working fool and dedicated as hell, i just wondered like you said if he is just a single back up the middle guy or not….oh well, just as long as they hit ..who cares…..
the biggest downside to monroe in cf is, we lose our leadoff…who leads off and no speed in the lineup…otherwise i like it…the day casilla really steps up and takes over will change this team so much…
Oh well, Gurrier is dinking around. Only ST, cuz we know how good and reliable he is.
Harris and Mauer show us that the Twins will have 7 guys in the lineup capable of some pop. That’s the Bill Smith strategy, right? Looking forward to situational hitting and a different hero every game this year.
And Everett looks like he’s taking to coaching okay and could get a few doubles.
And Span is showing some decent OBP and BA.
So there’s your nine position starters. I’m feeling okay about that.
Meanwhile, back to starting pitching….
BC of ND,
True, kind of. My main point was just that 20 at bats or maybe it’s 25 now are not enough to call the game when over half of ST is left. If Gomez put together a couple good games he’d suddenly be right back in it. So although his atbats may be more critical it’s way to early to say his audition for CF is over.
If Gardy is serious about unconventional leadoff guys Harris is a possibility, if he hits. Look at Gladden’s numbers, not exactly prototypical. Although, I’m not suggesting Monroe in CF. I’m saying Span at #9.
I’m sad to hear about Pridie already being out of the running for CF. If Gomez doesn’t turn things around quick, I’ll be going for a Pridie/Monroe platoon in CF. This also keeps Monroe from taking Ab’s away from Kubel.
halfchest your right he could turn it around in a couple games but the problem is there are two other guys who deserve shots at CF as well who will get there starts as well unles he’s related to Punto Gardy is not going to keep putting him out there every day.
Halfchest, I said Gomez is “all but over”.
And I don’t care if he gets into a hot streak. He’s looked clueless and too green.
Pridie gets his first walk of ST. His OBP is lower than his BA. How can THAT be? Statisticians don’t like singles hitters?
You guys still don’t understand that sending Gomez down to AAA for 2-3 months will save the twins a ton of money and a year of arb. elgibilty. I don’t care if he wins the CF job outright you need to send him down for those 2 months so that you get to keep him for 1 year longer. The Twins aren’t seriously competing this year anyway.
If Pridie wins the CF, the Twins are trying to figure out what to do with Gomez. At AAA, it looks like Span in center and Gomez in right.
Gomez could relax in right field, play every day, and gain some baseball intelligence.
Looks like Macri’s audition is over. An inning or two ago he made two goofs on two plays.
Damn! Ruiz running the bases and scoring. Wish I could have seen it.
“His OBP is lower than his BA. How can THAT be?”
Must have a sacrifice fly.
“in a critical ST”
Isn’t that an oxymoron?
Liriano? –> 53 pitches… left the game healthy… Makes today a great day for the Twins!
Romer - is Pridie’s OBP actually lower than his BA? That’s odd, I can’t even think of a way that would happen.
Seth, how would a sac fly make his OBP lower than his BA?
i dont buy this not competing this year..i never want to start the year thinking maybe next year….this team can compete i believe, if they get just decent pitching and the bullpen stays true to form …and signing nathan
Amen, jama. My thoughts exactly. Do you have the exact details of that, by the way?
Red Sox too much to handle for the Twins lately. It’s all like..Ellsbury rounding third, he’s gonna try and score! There’ll be a play at the plate! it is….NOT IN TIME. SAFE! SAFE! The Red Sox win it!!!
Does a sacrifice bunt add to your OBP but not your BA?
Randy Ruiz seems to be an outstanding hitter. If Monroe plays regularly in the outfield, Ruiz would be a good right handed DH to compliment Kubel. Just a thought, since the Twins are trying to generate more offensive power.
For those planning on not competiting this year, look at the roster from 2002. Our lineup is better, and the rotation is at least comparable. Granted, the competition looks tougher, but a lot of things could go wrong in Detroit.
So, you get an RBI on a SF and your OBP is punished? (Not the BA of course.)
i agree am and another thing - whats going to be that much better in one year…i dont see alot of changes coming - just a year more experience, but that doesnt always mean - well now we can compete….what we have is the team that we are going to pretty much have for the next?? years….very young and a great present and future
AM
It’s not just Detroit the Twins would have to top it’s the Indians and the White Sox too. The pitching isn’t even close to comparable to that 2002 team either. It’s not a guarantee that any of the starting pitchers are going to win 10 games this year. In 2002 at least Radke was somewhat reliable.
Re: Gomez: I don’t know the exact number of games he would have to be sent down to AAA to not get his service time but I think it is a little over 2 months.
Experience is worth a lot Sam when you have this young of a team. Guys like Gomez and Casilla are really young and have a lot to learn. In a year or two they are going to be everyday regulars that have a better understanding of the game. Plus the pitching staff will have some arms that are going to be more reliable and consistant.
romer
Did you read the article in the paper today? Gardy said that Pirdie has basically no chance of starting in CF this year. He is going to be the 4th OF probably. So that means that either Span or Gomez will start and the other will be the starting CF in AAA.
all the teams have improved…look out for kc also….they wont be pushovers this year either - they will also give cleve,det and chi rough times …it could be a great battle in this division…
Casilla with an OBP about .400 so far.
Gladden says Liriano was pitching to “try and make the team” and he was laboring rather than just getting his work in. Gordo agrees.
I’m still taking it with a grain of salt though. He only threw at 88, right?
Anyone that believes Liriano won’t be in the rotation isn’t paying attention. Who is going to replace him? Who, Perkins? Slowey? Mulvey? Deunsing? They’re all having horrible springs so far. Liriano is in the rotation on opening day. Really, he didn’t pitch all that much worse than Buckholtz today.
Now, as for Carlos Gomez…it’s time to send this big-talking, light-hitting, over-hyped punk to the minor league camp and quit pretending he’s the next coming of Ricky Henderson already.
Right jama. Looking like Span. And Pridie at CF in Rochester.
““in a critical ST”
Isn’t that an oxymoron?”
For Gomez it is a critical ST, he has a chance to win a full-time ML starting CF job. And he is battin .149 with a sub .200 OBP. He has laid an egg so far in an open competition.
And RyanW, it only gets tougher for Gomez each round of cuts; he ends up facing fewer puss-arms and more MLB studs.
Take a look at the stats for Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera. Their numbers are very good thus far this spring. I think the Twins really missed the boat by not obtaining them for Santana. Remember, Cabrera is a good defensive centerfielder and a switch hitting leadoff man. The Twins have no leadoff hitter and certainly could have used more power in the pitching department. Bill Smith really messed up by missing the trade.
OBP is times on base / plate appearances
BA is hits / at bats
A sac fly would lower your OBP but not affect your BA.
I appreciate people’s passion and since we haven’t watched baseball for so long this offseason, it is great to be watching it again.
For those that are so high on Randy Ruiz and think he should or could get a big league spot… take a look at his career (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/Randy-Ruiz.shtml) and tell me what he has done that tells you he might be a big leaguer?
Herb, Cabrera has looked horrible the two games I watched against the Twins. No thanks. Hughes is a stud though, point taken.
As for Ruiz, I believe he was a juicer in the minors, so we should take his past power numbers with that in mind…
Lala, you are right nooone else has shown they want it either, other than Blackburn - he has been pretty good. That doesn’t mean Cisco starts the year in the rotation. To me it sure looks like he needs quite a bit more work before he is ready to go.
you bet judge a trade 3 weeks into spring training!
why can’t mauer leadoff? not much speed but he’ll only lead off the 1st may not again 1 in 9 chance rest of the game. good obp. pudge has lead off he isn’t any faster than mauer. there have been a lot of guys batting first that weren’t speed burners. imo getting on base is more important, speed doesn’t do much good if you don’t.
Melky had two bad spring training games, so he must be horrible.
jama–
Agreed that the division will be tough at the top and KC and CHW can also be copmetitive. But I don’t like writing off the Twins at this point, especially after a pretty productive offseason (the first in years).
Here is the 2002 rotation:
Reed, 32GS, 3.78 ERA, 1.16 WHIP
Lohse, 31 GS, 4.23, 1.39
Milton, 29GS, 4.84, 1.19
Radke, 21GS, 4.72, 1.22
Mays, 17GS, 5.38, 1.45
Santana, 14GS, 2.99, 1.23
Ellsbury is batting .214 and Lowrie is batting .086 this spring… not sure that deal would have looked all that great right now either.
Youkilis batted leadoff for the world champs much of last year, that seemed to work.
I didn’t say he is horrible, I just said I would rather not have him. I will take Gomez over Melkey… I like Gomez’s ceiling better. Melkey regressed in his second season in lineup in which he is protected by some pretty dang good hitters.
mauer is faster than youkilis and probably a better obp.
The answer:
on base percentage (OBP) may be calculated as:
(H + BB + HBP) / (AB + BB + HBP + SF)
It is possible for a player’s on base percentage to be lower than his batting average (H/AB). If a player had 2 hits and 5 at bats with a sacrifice fly, his batting average would be .400 but his on base percentage would be .333.
This must be why the Twins don’t seem that high on the OBP as a stat. They like the sacrafice.
Small ball, I believe they call it.
Anybody have the current score?
Stats are great i wish they had one for how many times a player gets a clutch hit like when your down 1,2 or 3 runs with the bases loaded. Good hitting isn’t something you can always measure statisticaly but you know it when you see it. Redmond is a good example and one of the best i’ve ever seen plays for our opponent today. Manny Ramirez always seem to come through when they need him.
Looking at the positional battle for CF this year you need to realize the Twins want their top two prospects playing that position, regardless of the league.
Using that as reasoning, the best of the two will wind up in the ML while the other starts in AAA.
Pridie being a solid, but not spectacular player, will be looking at a reserve role, only because Cuddy and Young have the corner positions locked down. That is not to say that he won’t end up playing CF if the winner struggles SUBSTANTIALLY.
12-7 game over.
Is Baltimore really interested in trading Brian Roberts? His name was brought up on LENIII blog.
Would Ben Revere and one of are young pitchers be enough?
This would solve both are leadoff spot and the dreadful situation at 2B.It would allow us to drop the young and at this point weak hitting CF canidates down in the order.
What would it take?
Thanks, RyanW, for the BA and OBP info.
usachief, what about SB’s?
I’ve gotta think more about this. I’ll check out the Wikipedia site
brian roberts could fill a few holes but he probably is not far from fa, maybe a yr or 2. you’d think a few decent prospects would get him but you never know what they want probably more than he’s worth.
that would put harris and punto in reserve role which would make us a stronger.
Brian Roberts? No thanks. Maybe if this was 2003 all over again…
Columbo, don’t know what Baltimore is doing with Roberts.
It’s just that I smell David Ortiz Junior regarding Ruiz. Maybe Ruiz just now has got it figured out at the plate, like Hunter all of a sudden in his 30’s did in 2006. So I was thinking that some low-end team (TX, Balt, Oakland, KC) with a weak DH might be interested in him.
Cuz the Twins don’t need him, right? A backup/insurance thing for Morneau?
So, does anyone think the Twins will trade for anybody in the next 2-1/2 months? They’re gonna go with what they got, right?
They don’t care if CF is only prospective.
They’re gonna play out Lamb, Harris and Everett to see how they do.
They’re satisfied with their basic bench of Redmond/Punto/Monroe.
And Gardy has said Tolbert can be an everyday player; so he or Buscher are slotted for the 25th player, with Jones in the mix.
And who anywhere would trade a really good starting pitcher to the Twins?
He said Tolbert could play every day? How can Tolbert and Punto be everyday players but not Pridie?? Classic Gardyism.
I don’t think the Twins are interested in picking up a pitcher. They still have a lot of young arms with a lot of potential. I see them going after a long term 3B or SS in trade for Nathan and Crain/Rincon, maybe even Gueruer( not even close, I know). There are always teams looking for relief help, and injuries happen.
Romer, please don’t take this too wrong, but, I have to ask… did you just make a David Ortiz/Randy Ruiz comparison?
Humber, Mulvey, Blackburn, Slowey, Robertson, Manship, Swarzak, Guerra
They are all at AA level or higher except for Guerra, see where he ends up this year. Thats 8 guys for 2 spots in the rotation in 2 years. Still a team strength, top to bottom is our pitching depth.
And if I have this correct, Crain, Rincon and Gueruer are in the last year of contracts, as is Redmond, and are trade canidates. I would like to keep Redmond at all costs because his strengths balance Mauers weaknesses
If the Yankees can trust three important pitching spots to three guys with about a combined 4 months of big league service time, the Twins are fine and have plenty of quality depth.
As for Roberts, most believe that he will be traded to the Cubs by the start of the season. Apparently they want a package to included at least one of the top prospects, and 2-4 other decent prospects. For a 2B?! Crazy!! If Andy McPhail pulls that kind of deal off for Roberts after what he got in return for Tejada and Bedard, he should be crowned executive of the year.
Romer, I assume by “SB’s” you mean sacrifice bunts, rather than stolen bases, in which case (from “Answers.com”):
Sacrifice flies were not counted as an official statistic until 1954. Before that time, all sacrifices were counted as sacrifice hits (SH), which included both sacrifice flies and bunts. Bunts (sacrifice hits since 1954), which would lower a batter’s on base percentage, are not included in the calculation for on base percentage, as bunting is an offensive strategy – often dictated by the manager – the use of which does not necessarily reflect on the batter’s ability and should not be used to penalize him. For calculations of OBP before 1954, or where sacrifice flies are not explicitly listed, the number of sacrifice flies should be assumed to be zero.
“And if I have this correct, Crain, Rincon and Gueruer are in the last year of contracts, as is Redmond, and are trade canidates”
I don’t think the Twins will deal this spring, not a trade. Crain has another year left on his contract, and then I believe he’ll have a year of arbitration yet. Rincon is signed through this year and becomes a free agent at the end of the year. Guerrier signed a one year deal in his first arbitration season. he has two more years of arbitration. I believe that the Twins have an option for 2009 on Redmond. I think as long as he’s healthy and adequate as a backup catcher, he’ll be back. We’ll see where we are in July. I’m sure the Twins would like to deal Rincon, but they wouldn’t get much. Guerrier might have some reliever value and maybe get a Hi-A type of prospect. Crain would definitely have a lot of teams interested. I don’t think Redmond would attract much interest or return.
I agree with Seth completely.
Damn, I like Gomez, his flair, even his cockyness, but at some point he has to get going or Span will be the guy. I kinda figured Pridie would be the fourth outfielder. Gomez seems to have so much ability but still a lot to learn. Even if he had a good game then a bad game it would be OK. I do like that he seems to be able to get the bunt down but Span at this point has earned the CF spot because of his on base percentage…..of course still half of spring training to go.
And Punto is hitting what like .067????? I’m sorry as much as I like his glove he may need to go. I’d rather see Cassila than suffer through Punto at the plate….
Baker to the DL is a big blow for a team that needs everything to go right to have any chance. Maybethis opens the door for Humber to get a rotation spot. He’s been good and maybe will earn a chance.
Blackburn is getting the chance in Baker’s place tomorrow, not Humber. Gardy said Humber is an “all out” guy which makes me think of Nathan and Berenguer, throwing everything hard. I think they see him as a back end bullpen type.
Seth
thanks for that contract info. I didn’t realize Guerrier had that much arbitration time left. I really see us being active at the deadline. I could see us dealing Crain, Rincon, Guerrier, Monroe, Everett, Harris, Lamb, Nathan, Punto. Any of these guys should be fair game to trade.
Everett Fan
I wouldn’t doubt at all if Humber is our closer next year. He would benefit from not having to hold back with increased velocity, when coulpled with his good curve, would make a good closer. His best chance to dominate like he did before his injury is in a closers role. He used to be lights out.
I can see dealing Everett and Monroe and Rincon and Nathan. Unless a 3B option appears, Lamb needs to stick around. Crain needs to stay. Guerrier, if the right deal is offered. No one would want Punto. The Twins have a very solid core and once out of contention, they should really be pushing on to add to it.
Herb-I well make this post till i’m blue in the face.How do you know for sure that Hughes and Cabrera were ever in the Johan package?
Seth,
In my dream deal, we get 3B Stewart and SS Nelson from the Rockies. That may be a little much on their end though. But they have depth at those positions so may be willing to deal.
Seth, did I just read that the Twins would trade Guerrier for a high A prospect? And that they’d entertain trading Crain?
(heh-heh)
But I know………..lots of us are euphorically intrigued by Ruiz. It was foolish of me to almost think his ceiling is in the D. Ortiz range.
Would you believe a Dimitri Young Junior comparison?!!?
How do we know for sure you’re really GENO?
But seriously Seth, why is there any Guerrier trade talk? He pitched his butt off last year with 88 innings and a 2.35 ERA with the comparatively miserable 2007 Twins.
because he is a 29 yr old middle reliever.
if trading him mean a 22 yr old 3B, it’s a no brainer
Don’t get me wrong, I like Guerrier. I thought he should have gotten a chance to start, but, oh well. His value has never been higher after last year. But if packaging Nathan, Guerrier, player C together gets us a young talented 3B like Ian Stewart and a young SS/2B like Chris Nelson. then Go for it.
LIKE Guerrier?!!!?
He was the MVP of the staff last year. All-Star quality!
Sorry if I like the idea of trading a 29 yr old MR if we aren’t in contention.
I view it as a luxury. Like having chrome rims on a geo
Why trade pieces that we will need to get back into contention just because
2008 may be a wash?
We will just have to replace all those pieces when we contend again which could be next year.
“I could see us dealing Crain, Rincon, Guerrier, Monroe, Everett, Harris, Lamb, Nathan, Punto.”
Nathan is the only one with enough trade value to get a real prospect in return,or to headline a significant trade. Monroe and Everett were non-tendered by their previous teams.
But seriously Seth, why is there any Guerrier trade talk?
I have never heard a trade rumor about Guerrier. I was just responding to someone who mentioned his name.
Sleepy evening………Did Franchiso put us all to sleep?
So Gardy is on record as saying it’ll be either Span or Gomez in CF — UNLESS both of them fail.
In other words, it doen’t matter how good Pridie is, the job’s not his unless by default. It’s just, as Gardy explains, that Span and Gomez have more talent than Pridie.
Of course no such system is in place for the battle at 2B, where Casilla would be in the driver’s seat because he has more talent than the rather standard Harris.
The Twins running game is too weak this year. I want Casilla and Span. Can you imagine how lackluster it’ll be if it’s Pridie and Harris instead……
“So Gardy is on record as saying it’ll be either Span or Gomez in CF — UNLESS both of them fail.”
That would make Pridie the favorite with Gomez currently failing and Span a good bet to fail sooner or later.
[…] 2+ innings today against the Red Sox and gave up 3 earned runs with 4 hits and 2 base on balls. Francisco said he didn’t have command of his pitches but did work up to throwing at 90-95% of full throttle. He also said he think he will be ready for […]
So that means that either Span or Gomez will start…
At this point Gomez needs to go to AAA. Not just for service time stuff, but to get regular everyday play time without the spotlight. He’s got a LOT of work to do.
As far as Span is concerned, if he’s having a good Spring put him out there. He was at one point Torii’s heir, what better time than now to go ahead and give him his chance.
I could see us dealing Crain, Rincon, Guerrier, Monroe, Everett, Harris, Lamb, Nathan, Punto.
With the exception of Nathan you essentially just named a number of players that have been offered as “trades” because various fans hate them to different degrees.
T-It’s seems unbelievable that some can hate players they don’t even know!No,wait a minute,i think maybe it’s their talent and the posters lack there of!I’m either on something or on to something!Or otherwords it’s called envy.
No, I wanted to trade players that are just stop gaps or don’t have contracts with us for long. If you can package these players for future help, why not. Or a position like MR that has value at the deadline, that a rebuilding team doesn’t necessarily need if the right offer is there
Can’t really hate guys who haven’t played for us. So would you guys trade Nathan, and if so, who would you package with him?? The options are the guys I listed, not long term guys for this team, or guys with value that we have young pitchers to give a shot to.
I guess I’d rather trade Crain or Guerrier than Robertson, Manship or Humber, Mulvey, Swarzak.
Any truth to the rumor that the Twins offered Kubel, to Cleveland, for Tyner?
I’m figuring on a core of this:
Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Young, Casilla, Gomez, Kubel, Plouffe, and maybe Parmalee or Benson as position players
Baker, Liriano, Bonser, Slowey, Blackburn, Humber, Mulvey, Guerra, Swarzak, Robertson, Manship, Neshek to comprise the bulk of our 2010 pitching staff, and there could be more pitchers come along.
We sure look like we have a lot more pitching options than hitting at this point. And still no long term 3b.
I’d rather have a 3B of the future than MR for now
Craig,
Only if they throw in Sizemore
Kubel to AAA……..where he truly belongs.
I was hoping those guys would make their trade list, but …….
maybe I’d be better off making an untradable list
Liriano, Neshek, Mauer, Morneau, Young, Guerra, there that ought to do it. Everyone else is fair game for the right deal.
craig to FFF,where he truly belongs.
“The Twins running game is too weak this year. I want Casilla and Span. Can you imagine how lackluster it’ll be if it’s Pridie and Harris instead”
A. Pridie isn’t a sloth. He had 26 SB last season in 36 attempts. About a 72% success rate, which is the same as Casilla last season (35 for 48). Besides, chances that if Gomez isnt starting Span will be. And he can run just fine.
B. Harris has better hitting stats both in the minors and in the majors. There is no question he is a better hitter than Casilla.
RyanW,
right on, running game is in fine shape.
Geno, I would really enjoy to envy your list of players on the Twins who could be packaged with Nathan.
You are so much more talented than these other posters.
Unless you think signing Nathan to a 4 year 55 mil deal is the way to go??
It’s just no fun to see you rip my list and not get to see yours.
Oh well
Twins still have that knack, of juuust offering a little less than just what Nathan, would accept, thay do it all the time. just to save face with the fans,,,
T-Wins,
You can’t “package” a group of non-descripts and expect another team to give up valuable players in return.
The other teams already have their versions of Crain, Rincon, Guerrier, Monroe, Everett, Harris, Lamb and Punto with different names. They would like to package their slag and trade them to the Twins for stars but that won’t happen either.
If you want Delmon Young, you have to give up Bartlett and Garza - not Punto and Crain.
Crain is going to have to pitch a little before he has value. He is comming off a pretty major injury- dealing him now would be selling low.
If they trade Nathan, they will be putting someone with him. I never said Punto and Crain would bring stars, But Nathan and Crain could bring us a good player at 3B. It was just a list of tradeable players, most of whom aren’t in the long term plans. I don’t expect Punto, Rincon, Everett, Lamb, those guys to bring much, but they are guys could be put in a deal. Crain and Guerrier do have trade value, and Nathan should be able to get us a decent prospect. Throw in one of the other guys and you have a decent package to shop around for our long term needs. Thats all I’m saying. I’m not going to sit here and say Punto and Rincon will bring us anything, but they are trade possibilities.
I’m sure there are a couple teams who wouldn’t mind a bench bat like Lamb or Monroe.
the brewers are shopping capuano, (rumored) do we have anyone to give up for a starter with some up side and some experience?
T-wins,
OK,I understand.
To many teams, Nathan alone will have the same value as Nathan PLUS Lamb (for example) MINUS having to pay Lamb’s salary.
That is why stars and prospects with low salaries have more trade value than veteran fringe players.
But I see what you are saying.
The Brewers need pen help, not many lineup holes. May
T-I wasn’t actually referring to you,but if you want to volunteer,be my guest!
Gomez needs a lot of work and he may be better off at Rochester to start the season. Like the old saying “you can’t steal first base.” I like the idea of Monroe in CF, but who bats leadoff?
By the numbers, Span maybe is the guy but I doubt Gardy would play him against lefties. I think Pridie is the most polished player, but Gardy seems to want him only as a backup and bench player. I still wish we could have received one major league “ready” player for a two-time Cy Young Award winner.
bufftwins,
If Jacques Jones can bat leadoff, anyone including Harris, Lamb, Mauer or Monroe can bat leadoff.
RyanW, Harris is a better hitter than Casilla. But baserunning and defense are still part of the game. Casilla overall is talented.
T-Wins, last year Castillo stole 19 bases, Bartlett 23, Hunter 18, Punto 16.
And who will replace their base stealing this year? Span……one guy.
And you say, “right on, running game is in fine shape.”
Dream on.
replacing 76 stolen bases is the least of our worries. If Gomez makes the team he may total that himself. Harris is a decent runner and our CF should steal more than Hunter. Punto is still around but playing him for SB would be silly. With Gomez, Span, Pridie, Casilla I think the Twins will see plenty of thievery the next few years.
I’m not worried about the short term SB totals, by the end of this year there could be a completely different team than the start.
The biggest problem the twins face is that their base stealers may have a hard time getting on base, so they’ll have fewer oppertunities.
I also think the Twins will be more of a hit and run team, less pure steals. The guys they have do have decent speed.
No T, the biggest problem is they ain’t got the base stealers.
And Gomez ain’t gonna make the team.
Perhaps some cold water in your face would do you good!
Take care.
:)>
If your dangerous threat on the basepaths had 23 steal, your not getting much anyway. we’ll see how it plays out.
And I said “if” Gomez makes the team. I do expect to see some of him this year, at some point.
T-Wins: The way things are going I wouldn’t expect Gomez with the big club unless an outfielder goes down.
Otherwise it’s “See you in September”
