Tuesday lineups: Twins/Orioles
Posted on March 18th, 2008 – 9:52 AMBy Joe Christensen
FORT LAUDERDALE — As La Velle mentioned last week, Fort Lauderdale Stadium is the toughest blogging environment in the Grapefruit League.
The only Internet access in the press box is dial-up, and even that is spotty. So I snuck into the media room to at least give you the lineups.
TWINS
1. Denard Span, CF
2. Carlos Gomez, LF
3. Joe Mauer, C
4. Michael Cuddyer, RF
5. Jason Kubel, DH
6. Randy Ruiz, 1B
7. Brian Buscher, 3B
8. Brendan Harris, 2B
9. Matt Tolbert, SS
Starting pitcher: RH Philip Humber. (LH Glen Perkins and RH Nick Blackburn also are scheduled to pitch.)
Orioles
1. Brian Roberts, 2B
2. Melvin Mora, 3B
3. Nick Markakis, RF
4. Kevin Millar, 1B
5. Aubrey Huff, DH
6. Adam Jones, CF
7. Jay Payton, LF
8. Ramon Hernandez, C
9. Luis Hernandez, SS
Starting pitcher: RH Matt Albers
Fort Lauderdale Stadium. First pitch: 12:05 (Central).
206 Responses to "Tuesday lineups: Twins/Orioles"
Thanks Joe! Looks like another day following the MLB sorta-live boxscore.
Gardy is really trying to get both Span and Gomez game time, nice to see. Tolbert in at short too. It’s hard to say every at-bat counts in the grand scheme of a players career but I’m sure these guys on the bubble are feeling the pressure. It’s fun to watch the competition.
Looks like the Twins pitchers are getting the “A” lineup from Baltimore this afternoon. I am really hoping Humber shows some positive results! Also Blackburn needs a good bounce back game after giving up a few runs last start.
Should be a legit test for Humber against that lineup. Perkins should see some of them as well, but chances are Blackburn will see mostly backups by the time he gets in the game.
Once again, Harris is paired up with a backup SS… that pattern is becoming a signal of what’s to come, I think.
Humber better have his share of strikeouts.
The Ruiz, Harris, Tolbert and Buscher infield is designed to hit first - field if necessary.
maybe we should get Brian Roberts in OUR line-up and see what he could do…
Roberts makes too much money. Beside Carl is probably very giddy that he’s way under the 2007 payroll now that he has to dig into his pocket for the additional costs of the new stadium.
I have a bad feeling Gardy’s love for Punto will continue into the regular season and Harris will mostly be on the bench and play 3B against tough lefties.
I like Punto,, but don,t want to see him start,, any more than anyone else does,, Harris, just might be a slow starter,,,Lets give him a chance,,,
I don,t know how much,, is to much money, for Roberts, but maybe wroth looking into, if Harris, starts to slow,,
What? No Punto today????
Signed,
Nobody
I don’t think it is the money that is not bringing Roberts to town. I don’t think the Twins want to give up the prospects for him, and I don’t blame them. This team is obviously trying to build itself for the future and trading away 2 or 3 top prospects is not the way to do it.
Joe is right. That Lauderdale Stadium is an absolute dump (wasn’t this the old Yankees compound???). Definitely among the worst Spring Training setups. Sorta like Shea/LaGuardia where the birds are zipping overhead most of the game. Really would be nice if they left for Dodgertown. Somebody needs to occupy that American Treasure…
Tolbert is solid on defense and can play every position. I think he makes the team
popbelly,,,likes to put commas,,,, in his posts,,,,,
Does anyone make anything of the fact that Go-Go is playing all outfield positions and Mr. Clean is only playing CF? Makes me think that Span/Monroe will be the opening day CF and Go-Go is getting ready to be the first call-up should either starting OF get hurt.
I think it’s just the opposite. Gardy likes his regulars to be able to play multiple positions. Span will go back to AAA as a CF.
Why are they screwing around with Garrett Jones? After hitting a HR off Yankee’s Chamberlain he’s had 13 AB’s in 12 games. How can you compete getting no time or AB’s. It’s no wonder he’s had a slow spring. He’s a great athlete with power and speed. 24 AB’s the whole spring is hardly a chance.Screwed him last year when called up and down 3 times. Finally hit close to .290 with 2 HR’s in the last month with a little time.Casilla was sent out too quickly this spring. Ruiz starts today. Good spring but a 30 yr old who can’t field and has 2 substance suspensions in his past. Jones is out of options…if you’re not going to give him a chance put him on waivers and see if another team wants him rather than trying to sneek him through at the end of ST.Same thing with Bass…has pitched great,out of options and they’re not even talking about him going North.
Upnorth, Go-Go requested to get more at bats so he could work on his new approach. He is playing other positions so that he can get more ab’s. Span and him are still splitting time in CF. Unless Go-Go falters the rest of the way, I think he is our CF which is great to me.
does anybody have the gameday link for todays game
If Monroe requested more at-bats would he get them? I’m a little disappointed that he hasn’t gotten more time in Center.
Gardy is really trying to get both Span and Gomez game time, nice to see.
And both at the top of the order, too. Is Span a legitimate leadoff candidate?
Also interesting to see them giving Randy Ruiz more time. I know he’s likely not going to make the roster this season, but I personally hadn’t heard of him until this spring and am curious how close he is to making the club. Now that Morneau, Cuddy, Young and likely Gomez have the 1B and OF covered…is he being groomed to be a DH?
What? No Punto today????
Signed,
Nobody
Perfect example of what I was talking about yesterday.
as far as im concerned g. jones is in no mans land in the twins org…hes used up his options and has nothing to offer to the big club at this stage, so i hope he catches on with someone else and good luck to him….
Dave C. had some good points on Garrett Jones but he overrated his play in 2007…the Twins would have LOVED to keep Jones up, if you recall, but he was absolutely pitiful against major league pitching…we were dying for a DH while Rondell White was recovering from steroids, err, injury all season. Jones simply could not get it done against big league pitching when it mattered.
I think it’s just the opposite. Gardy likes his regulars to be able to play multiple positions…
Except for Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Young, and Gomez. AKA half the lineup. 
And no, Cuddy/Young/Gomez being alternatives to each other on the depth chart doesn’t count as multiple positions. Nor does Cuddy’s brief stint at first in 07.
Why is it so hard to stick Kubel in as the DH and leave him there every day? I don’t understand why Gardy hasn’t done this and I don’t understand why fans don’t want this?
jama,
Check Kubel’s stats. He hits right handed pitching well, but not left handed pitching. Monroe is the opposite. That is why they will be backup outfielders and platoon at DH.
gomez speed comes thru again in 1st…gets on on fc and steals 2 and 3rd…scores on ground out or something similar….pretty hard to keep this kid off the roster this year i am beginning to think….
1-2-3 second for Humber
2 groundouts by Huf/Jones and he fanned Payton.
GO HUMBER!!
tolbert starting at short today, raises a few eyebrows, the kid is quick and has a good glove, plus he’s a young talent the fans are really starting to like. i like his personality
I am watching the tigers play right now on espn all i got to say is good luck twins you can try your little dreaming hearts out all year you will not win a single game againts the tigers all year or for alongtime it’s going to be a interesting season for minnnesota baseball
The Twins will have a problem if Mauer stays in the #2 slot in the batting order. The lineup has no legitimate #3 hitter. Neither Young nor Cuddyer are consistent enough to hit third and help the team. The Twins should put Mauer hitting third and Morneau hitting fifth. Young hits 4th and Cuddyer 6th or 7th. Lamb may be a better hitter than Cuddyer for the 6th spot. I think Gomez should hit leadoff, with Harris batting second. The DH Kubel/Monroe hitting eighth and Everett ninth.
1. Gomez
2. Harris
3. Mauer
4. Young
5. Morneau
6. Cuddyer
7. Lamb
8. Kubel/Monroe
9. Everett
Gomez is the potential ideal lead off hitter with alot of power, great speed, and bunting skills.
looks like tolbert my settle into that 9th slot, and beat out everett for short
tolbert singles, mauer homers ..
if tolbert keeps hitting and fielding like he has against good pitching, he’s gonna make this team!
Joe,
That article in the Stib was joking that that Concordia outing put him in the doghouse, right? My jaw dropped at how stupid that would have been if an outing from February set him back this far until now. But then, I went into denial. Please clarify.
Yard Sale by Mauer! He could be in for a big rebound year if he stays healthy.
3-0 Twins.
On a bad note Gomez strikes out with Tolbert on third with 1 out. Gotta put it in play there.
i’ve gotta say, i’ve been impressed with this tolbert, despite us having everett and punto as slated opening day starters, tolbert’s been pretty impressive
Gardy’s favorites, Mauer and Tolbert are hitting. twins are winning
Gomez and Tolbert are def giving the Twins reasons to keep them on, Gomez stealing bases and tolbert hitting and fielding. 2 Good Looking prospects!
“Neither Young nor Cuddyer are consistent enough to hit third and help the team.”
Young hit .288 and drove in 93 RBI last season as a 21 year old rookie. How does that project to be less consistant than Mauer who last year hit .293 and drove in 60 RBI as a 24 year old in his third full season?
Gomez and Tolbert are def giving the Twins reasons to keep them on, Gomez stealing bases and tolbert hitting and fielding. 2 Good Looking prospects! 
All I know is that with Punto starting the past 3 games, the Twins went 0-3. No Punto today, and the Twins are off to a good start. Say what you want about 8 other starters and whatever, but the fact remains Nick Punto is a cancer to the team. Zero wins. Three losses.
tolbert is little known, but playing big when it counts
making plays when it counts will be the twins success this season. Mauer looking good at plate
2 runs four hits in the third for baltimore…3-2 after 3…
Tolbert is not impressive. Future utility player, celing of David Eckstein.
Watch him for a while, he is Nick Punto jr…
It will take a major flop of a spring by Jones, Buscher, and Pridie for Tolbert to make the team.
I think the Twins made a mistake by signing Cuddyer. He had a fairly good season last year and could have brought a young, more athletic, left handed hitting bat to the team to play right field. Cuddyer is very inconsistent at the plate and strikes out habitually with runners in scoring position. The opposing teams like to pitch to Cuddyer in crucial situation because he is no good in the cluth. Defensively, he is over-rated, and all you hear about is how great his arm is, but his arm is only average. Speedwise, he is very sub-par. He also frequently falls down when running. He may have some type of neurological problem that causes all the stumbling and falling down during games. The Twins should have had his head checkup during the off-season.
“On a bad note Gomez strikes out with Tolbert on third with 1 out. Gotta put it in play there.”
What does this even mean? Are saying that Gomez strategically struck out on purpose, and it turns out that was a bad decision?
AJ,
The Twins overcame the Punto cancer in 2006.
But 0-3 in ST tells it all.
Gotta love Gomez’ speed…CF is his, folks.
Sy, In 2006 he wasn’t a cancer, he was Vitamin C!
Punto has one place and one place only on this team–late inning defensive replacement…if it’s cool to use a roster spot for that, then so be it…
Here’s an elephant in the room–L-Rod would be a more effective roster spot / utility player than Punto.
Gomez is in LF today. His and Pridie’s versatility to play all 3 outfield spots should put them ahead of Span, who is a CF only, with his average-at-best arm.
I think Tolbert-SS and Gomez-CF should be in the lineup regularly.
I’m excited about this season. We’ve improved in a few spots. LF is better. Much better then Rondell White. 3rd base is an upgrade from last year, SS and 2nd base I would classify as a push. CF is big ? right now. I don’t see Gomez or Span getting the HR’s or RBI’s Torii had I can see a big improvement in Runs and Steals. Pitching is really the key this year. If they can stay healthy and eat up some innings we’ll have a 90 win season. That however won’t be enough to win the division.
i agree with herb, tolbert and gomez should be starters, both are young and have a lot of potential.
What’s with the love for Tolbert? I’m not being a smartass, I’m just curious. I thought there was no broadcast today - does he “look” really good in gameday or something? Or is there a broadcast I don’t know about?
yeah tolbert is quick too, a switch hitter with a good glove, sounds interesting and makes me optimistic about the season. finally a shortstop with an upside
I think Matt Tolbert would be a very good starting shortstop. Everett could be in the lineup occassionally and in the late innings for defensive purposes. Tolbert is a very good hitter for average, and a switch hitter at that. He would add more offensive strength and flexibility to the batting order. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him batting second in the lineup before very long.
90 wins? I know it is Spring Training and optimism is King but come on. If you had to bet you house on an over/ under of 85 wins what would you take?
How about 80 wins?
70 wins?
Note that every single in the 3rd off Humber was a grounder. I wonder how many of them were weak grounders. Anyway, I think Humber did well considering he was facing their A-lineup.
Tolbert also has blazing speed
tolbert has looked good when i saw him play earlier this spring. he played in the futures game last year. not love, just optimism about a switch hitter that can handle short, second, and third. plus the outfield
tolbert has looked good when i saw him play earlier this spring. he played in the futures game last year. not love, just optimism about a switch hitter that can handle short, second, and third. plus the outfield!!!
Come on jama,
No truth or realism allowed on this blog!
harris-tolbert a good second and short combo…..
Earlier in ST, I believe I saw tolbert walk on water. He has no chance to make the team this year.
Gosh, as putrid as LRod was I think I too would rather him as a late-inning replacement other than Nick Punto, just for the fact if LRod did have to come up with a tie score or if we were behind, he has shown he can occasionally hit the long ball. Punto can never or will never be able to change a game with one swing. Boooooring. If I want to watch no-power no-offensive players I would watch our local Babe Ruth team. Not pay money to watch Punto dribble out to the pitcher or pop harmlessly to shallow CF every at-bat.
I suspect tolbert’s agent is posting here under multiple names.
Could someone introduce Chad S to reality, please. I think the two definitely need to meet up.
If tolbert can bunt the ball fair and not slide headfirst into first base on any close play, he’s already a huge upgrade from Nick Punto.
My vote is for putrid also.
the facts are tolbert and gomez are giving the twins every reason to be on this team. and to start too… simply put
Span has a double and walk today…ST average up to .300..
tolbert is doing ok in a handful of meaningless ST games. I definetly see him as a legitimate rookie of the year candidate!
Great observation sid!
Tolbert has blazing speed?
I heard that he had a footrace with his pregnant wife and finished third.
Again, send Gomez down to AAA for 2 months. It saves the Twins a year of arbitration elgibility. Why have Joe and LEN III not written a story about this? In my opinion this is a big deal. Unless Gomez is going to put you over the top and bring you an extra 10 wins in the first 2 months it makes no sense to keep him up.
Neither Young nor Cuddyer are consistent enough to hit third and help the team.
Since it’s a rebuilding year, you take Young and put him 3rd. Cuddy bats 5th. You leave it like that for all of 2008 and they’ll learn.
Young’s not going to magically become a better #3 hitter by sitting 5th in the lineup. And I still think it’s a better idea to start out with Morneau protecting Young…otherwise they’ll pitch around Morneau to get to Young.
Here’s an elephant in the room–L-Rod would be a more effective roster spot…
Luis Rodriquez? The guy who every 5 or 6 days when his name came up on TV we were like “Oh YEAH that guy’s still with the team.”
Punto will be sufficient as a late inning replacement or as a backup infielder for injuries or days off for the other guys.
It’s one year. Can we live through one rebuilding year with Punto on the bench?
Sid Great Observation! Tools
T
I agree with you, if Punto isn’t in the lineup everyday. I think he is a great late inning defensive replacement who can start maybe once every 10 days or so. I’m still a little nervous that if Harris, or whoever is starting at 2B, has a bad game or two Gardy is going to give them the yank and put Punto in for an extended period of time.
Punto is what he is, a late inning defensive replacement that could pinch run for someone if need be also. Nothing more but nothing less.
T,
I HOPE they pitch around Morneau to get to Young.
Young is already a better hitter than Morneau and will only get better and BETTER.
Punto is what he is, a late inning defensive replacement that could pinch run for someone if need be also.
Exactly, the Twins just made the mistake of over rewarding his 2006 performance. And due to the combined career years of 24 other players (well, not so much White), the Twins honestly didn’t look like a team that needed much fixing.
I don’t think anybody could’ve expected the 2007 Punto had.
Gardy put his son in the game. Does this kid have any real future with this club? Is he taking a spot away from someone that might be more deserving? I don’t know, so that is why I am asking. Not trying to stir the pot.
Harris is hitting .182 this spring, i.e., he’s even worse than Punto if that’s possible. I’d like to see Tolbert play some 2B. If nothing else, it might light a fire under Harris.
Everett is an all-world defensive shortstop and Tolbert has zero chance to beat him out for the starting SS position.
jama i think billy smith is making that call, not gardy. i really dont know if he has a future or not. on the field anyway. in the dugout maybe a different story.
Why did Blackburn only pitch 2 innings?
I’m not getting the radio broadcast. What’s the word on Humber’s effort? Did he tire? Did Blackburn tire?
I thought the Twins would be stretching him out for a starter position. Someone blogged about a week ago that they saw in in ST walking with a limp.
I wonder if the blogger “baseball” (12:43) is still watching the Tigers, who are behind 8-0. The Tigers have bullpen problems bigtime.
Gardy JR has value. Too many injuries at the lower levels. Kelly and Thompson are injured, so he provides depth at this point. Played a lot of third last year when Whit Robbins fizzled as well.
Enough with the ragging on Punto. He is who he is - a utility infielder. He had a great year in 06 and a bad year in 07. All of his other years in the majors fall in between. He is a career 245 hitter. And stop ragging on Gardenhire. He can only play the players Pohlad/Ryan/Smith give him. If they give him utility players as regulars what do you expect him to say. Jesus look at the crap they give me! No, not if he wants to remain a big league manager. So he says things like I like their hustle and they play the game the right way - the Twins way. He has a choice this year of 3 career utility players to fill 2B and 3B (Harris, Punto & Lamb). All of the Twins minor league infield prospects have the potential, given time and experience to become UTILITY PLAYERS LIKE PUNTO. So rag on Pohlad for not giving the team a budget to compete year after year and rag on Ryan/Smith for poor draft picks and poor FA signings, but enough of the grief for Punto and Gardenhire!
romer…no broadcasts, so we’re all in a wait and see position to find out the answers to your pitching questions..
Maybe Toby helps Gardy with the books over the winter and this is their way of saying thanks…….
Herb, if you think Cuddyer’s arm is merely average you aren’t watching enough games. IIRC, Cuddyer led the AL in assists by an outfielder last year. He also forced teams to stop taking the extra base on a single to right.
Here’s an interesting statistical analysis of outfield assists and holds:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/best-outfield-arms-of-2007/
romer, they had Stephen Tolleson on the roster yesterday. The kids not on the 40 man have to fill out the spots for the rest of ST, until they go with vets. And the Mayor is out until the weekend with an oblique injury..
it makes no sense to keep him up.
In the short run, you sell more tickets with Go Go. In the long term, you save more money sending Go Go down. They have said they want to focus on this year and let 2011 take care of itself.
Harris is 0 for 3 today, and his BA is down to .176.
Tolbert singles then steals second
cmathewson
I understand what you are saying, but how wide is the gap between Gomez and Span right now? If the Twins had no other options I would understand, but by all accounts the two both have had highs and lows and appear to be pretty even. So that is why I say go with Span for the first 2 months, worst case scenario it costs the Twins between 1-4 wins. Plus it takes some of the pressure off Gomez and allows him to work on his swing in AAA.
tolbert has a hit in every twins win recently, just to make mention..
get tolbert a jersey, two hits today, and a stolen base. kid’s on fire…
Rebuilding year?
I think that the Twins are sending mixed messages:
On one hand, they sign short term solutions: Monroe, Lamb, Everett, L. Hernandez.
On the other, they claim that will bring Liriano up north, even though he cannot compete at the ML level without additional work and now there is talk about starting Gomez at AAA for a couple of months.
I personally think that the Twins can complete, because:
a. the lineup is better than last years
b. starting pitching is about the same or better
c. the bullpen is better
d. Cleveland cannot sustain the level of play they had last year
e. Detroit’s defense and pitching got worse (and were not that much good to begin with)
f. The White Sox & Royals might actually get some wins against Cleveland and Detroit this year…
make that “compete” instead of “complete” above
“b. starting pitching is about the same or better”
Are you serious? The starting pitching is a complete mess right now. They don’t have a #1 or a #2, Baker and Bonser are good #3 and #4 pitchers and they don’t have a #5 decided yet. How is that “about the same or better” than last year? Wow it must be Spring Training.
“d. Cleveland cannot sustain the level of play they had last year”
One of the Indians best players (Hafner) had one of his worst year, and Sizemore is only improving. This type of stuff is only said in March.
“f. The White Sox & Royals might actually get some wins against Cleveland and Detroit this year…”
This is true,but it means that those teams are also going to get more wins against the Twins. Unbelievable what some people fool themselves into thinking
thrylos98 -
starting pitching ‘about the same or better’ ? whose winning santana’s 15 games?
Sometimes short term solutions need to be signed when you are rebuilding. When you have prospects that need another half year to a year in AAA you still need to field a team. How anyone can say this team isn’t at least rebuilding a little is just looking through those rose colored glasses. The team has a whole new infield with the exception of Morneau. They have 2 new OF’s. That is 5 players out of 8 that are going to be starting that weren’t even on this team last year. If that isn’t rebuilding I don’t know what is.
Oh and you forgot to add how much better the Tigers offense is going to be.
The Twins seem to be spending alot of time giving playing time to players that clearly will not be on the roster. Should’t Gardenhire be giving his starting players as much time as possible to get ready for the season instead of trying to evaluation players that should be evaluated at the minor league level. Last season, the Twins were clearly not ready for prime time coming out of spring training, and they got off to a terrible start. Their weak start in 2007 all but guaranteed they had no chance against the Central Division opponents. Is Gardenshire committing the same mistake he did last year when he gave everybody except the restaurant waiter time in the lineup? Don’t be surprised if the Twins start out very slowly and fall behind the other teams in the division. As I have stated before, Gardenhire makes alot of mistakes–and no one ever notices them. Maybe the Twins would be champions if they were not stuck with a manage who continues to make very fundamental mistakes like habitually platooning players and never deciding on a starting pitching rotation throughout the entire season. He does whatever he can to keep the team from winning.
Folks, here is some data as far as SP went last year:
The Twins won 16 of the games that Santana started; Only in 4 of these wins (25%) the team scored fewer than 5 runs. In all 16 games the Twins won when Santana started, the team allowed an average of 2.38 runs per game.
From the team’s 13 wins in games that Bonser started, in 5 (38.4%) the team scored fewer that 5 runs. The team allowed an average of 2.69 runs per game, in games the Twins won with Bonser as the starting pitcher
From the team’s 13 wins in games that Baker started, in 4 (30.8%) the team scored fewer that 5 runs. The team allowed an average of 2.77 runs per game (if we disregard the 7/6 game 20-14 W against the Chi Sox, the number drops to a very impressive 1.83), in games the Twins won with Baker as the starting pitcher
From the team’s 7 wins in games that Slowey started, in 1 (14.3%) the team scored fewer that 5 runs. The team allowed an average of 4.14 runs per game, in games the Twins won with Slowey as the starter.
Thus, arguably Baker and Bonser could potentially offset the loss of Santana, comparatively to 2007.
That does not say that they are as good as Santana, just that in 2008 one of them might be as good as Santana was in 2007…
The way I see the starters (2007 left/ 2008 right):
Santana = Bonser (look at previous argument)
Silva = Slowey
Bonser < Liriano
Baker < Baker (a year of maturity)
Ortiz/Ponson/Slowey < Hernandez
Bullpen < Bullpen (healty Crain, Reyes, Rincon)
“5 players out of 8 that are going to be starting that weren’t even on this team last year. If that isn’t rebuilding I don’t know what is.”
It is improving… Detroit also changed half of its starting infield. Are they rebuilding?
herb,
Gardenhire, is giving the “regulars” at least 3ABs per game, (in addition to the other work before and after the game) how is that enough to get them ready for the season?
When ST is over, many of the guys we think won jobs will be sent to AAA.
Many of the guys who struggled will go North with the Twins.
And none of the explanations will make any sense.
Sid, Santana did not have a great year last year… its simple as that
Any stats which conclude that
Boof = Santana proves that
STATS = CRAP.
The only way Bonser=Santana is that Bonser is a good candidate to finish with a 15-13 record this year, same as Santana last year. Frankly, I see the entire pitching staff as a group of .500 pitchers, with the exception of Hernandez, who is a really bad pitcher.
The bullpen on the other hand looks to be better than last year. Crain is healthy, Humber has been pitching great, Perkins has another year of experience, Reyes and Rincon seem to be bouncing back somewhat from last year, Nathan has been as unhittable as ever.
What is Gardenhire’s kid doing in the lineup at spring training? There is no chance in the world of him making the major league roster., unless there is favoritism on the part of the manager. He should be playing the regulars as much as possible in order to get them ready for the season, so they don’t fall 20 games behind the division leaders in the first month of the season like in 2007. I think the fans should stand up the the team and ask for Gardenhire’s resignation. He has been an absolute burden to the team since the end of the 2006 season.
Herb,
why would the Twins need another left handed bat. They already have mauer and morneau, and struggle agianst even mediocre leftys. They need a right handed bat, hello delmon young. I just hate to see nate robertson lood like a stud against us.
gardenhire is widely regarded as a very good manager. do you recall how he finished in mgr of the year in 06? you’re saying he is now complete junk after his first losing season in ‘07. ridiculous.
in order for baker & bonser to offset santana’s loss they have to split his wins which makes them both 20+ game winners. do you recall how many 20 game winners the league had last year? 1. none of him was baker or bonser or santana.
thrylos
Did the Twins add two All-Star players?
Also adding 2 players vs. 5 players is a huge difference.
Did you seriously just say that Bonser is going to have a better 2008 than Santana’s 2007? You lost the last bit of credibility that you had. Plus you have 2 guys in your rotation that might not even start the season in the rotation. Liriano is looking more and more likely to stick around in Fort Meyers and Slowey might get beaten out by Humber/Blackburn/Perkins.
You are crazy, I guess I better just leave it at that.
andy b,
Last year the Twins won 16 of the games that Santana started and lost 16 (his record was 15-13). Last year the Twins won 13 of the games that Bonser started and lost 17 (his record was 8-12). Last year the Twins won 13 of the games that Baker started and lost 10 (his record was 9-9).
So either of them could easily offset Santana’s loss (arguably the Twins already fared better when Baker started vs. when Santana started last year; the numbers don’t lie…)
herb, at this point in the ST season, they take along an extra minor league infielder for every game just to fill out the roster and use as a late-game substitute so the regulars don’t have to play all 9 innings. They use a different guy every game and it was the Gardy kid’s turn today. It has nothing to do with prospect level.
Do people ever get tired of looking for things to gripe about around here?
If you measure a pitcher by wins and losses only, then two plus two equals five.
Lose Santana, Silva and Garza.
Add Livan,rehabbing Liriano and Slowey.
Lose the stats and use your your head.
Perhaps it’s time we give some serious consideration–with the way the other two candidates play the game–to having Tolbert man 2B this year for us. Then, after we unload Everett in July, we can move Tolbert to SS and give the 2B job to Alexi, once and for all. (And then we can have 120 stolen bases a year between Gomez and Casilla, assuming they both learn how to get on base.) This idea of looking to a couple of light-hitting utility men to become everyday 2B is a bit absurd; Punto can’t hit and Harris had a career year last year. Plus, the latter has a glove made of lead.
Let’s move on already.
jama, just look at the team numbers (w-l) and not the individual pitching numbers. Baker was better for the team than Santana last year, simply because the team won a higher percentage of the games that Baker started vs those that Santana started, plus Baker had less run support…
Santana did not have a good year last year. If you don’t want to accept that, don’t but that’s how it was. The team won a higher percentage of the games that Baker started than those that Santana started. This is a fact…
Also, you rebuild with young people. The ages of the Twins’ additions in the infield are 31, 32 and 27 (and the subtractions 30, 28 and 23). If the infield were something like Morneau, Casilla, Tolbert, Macri, that would have been rebuilding.
UMM, this doesn’t make sense. Why would the pitchers need to split Santana’s wins? Seems that he is being replaced in the rotation. The idea is that one or both of these pitchers will take a step up this year, hopefully offsetting his loss. That does not mean that they need to be 20 game winners. It means that one of them need to be a 15 game winner, and that someone needs to replace the wins that they had last year in the rotation. In the case of Boof, that shouldn’t be too hard.
I guess if you went with a 4 man rotation, then you would need to add to the win total, however, that WILL not happen.
Yeah, Morales is a good player. It’s just too bad he doesn’t have a bit more power. Then, he’d be an easy choice for a position change, to 3B.
I think the Twins would be a better all around team if Jose Morales and Matt Tolbert were on the major league roster and not waisting away in Rochester. Buscher and Redmond should not be on the roster instead of Morales and Tolbert. In Morales and Tolbert, you have very good young switch hitting prospects. Their talents are being waisted at Rochester. They could both bring additional flexibility and balance to the major league roster. Tolbert can play 3B, 2B, and SS. He will probably be a good starting shortstop in the near future. Morales would be a great second catcher and could spell Mauer and pinch hit. Both Morales and Tolbert can hit for high average and get on base alot, which is what the Twins need.
JimCrikket -
We won’t quit griping until we have another World Championship banner hanging from the rafters.
That’s what being a real sports fan is all about. That’s why, at this level, they say winning is everything. Thus, we gripe until we win it all. Get it?
Judging from these posts, illegal drug use is up in Minnesota OR people are off their prescription medications!
And if we do quit griping, then we accept all this Twin Cities mediocrity as the status quo for decades to come.
Gardy’s kid (and Butera’s) have no business spending ST with the big club, while Casilla and Morales are spending ST in the minors. Pure and Simple…
Wow, inthejohn, that was profound. You must speak from experience, huh?
Sensitive topic Lala?
Tolbert belongs on this team. As I said before, I am 100% certain he will be one of the 25. Nothing has changed. Just the fact that he is a better player than either Punto, Everett, or Harris, should earn him the job.
Yeah, inthejohn, it is; my cousin ODed in Seattle five months ago. Your idiocy is only funny to you…the idiot.
Lala,
Reread your posts and the idiot will be revealed.
Why gripe about a couple minor leaguers getting a game or 2 in before the last full run, when the roster is almost set?
The guys like Casilla and Morales, already sent down, need playing time they’re not going to get with the big club right now. Makes more sense to play a lot and improve…
Craig, I hope you’re right. That would be a nice upgrade over the current middle of the infield stock, should he bag a starting spot. The kid can play, when given consistent ABs.
Tolbert does belong in the team ahead of Punto at least… Just has a look at his AAA stats and an impressive thing is that he only grounded in 4 double plays all season (compared to 19 for Harris and 9 for Punto.) He does not have much experience in SS, but sure could push Harris at 2B. I just wish there was a way to get Punto out of the team…
Inthejohn, you and I aren’t even in the same intellectual class. Either talk about baseball and quit trying to be cute, or simply go away.
I suppose thrylos figured, as I did, that he would get jumped on regarding his analysis. And he is out on a limb.
But at least he gives us some reason to put on the rose colored glasses, if not keep them on.
It’s all rampant speculation…but-cha never know.
In the end, the veteran aspect of his analysis probably ruins the optimism. The Twins replace able veterans Santana and Silva (who will make $34M this year) with barely-able Livan. This makes the confidence aspect of the young starters suspect.
This shouldn’t be much of a problem for Bonaser or Baker, but will probably keep pressure on the 2 others.
lol
Thrylos, the sad issue is that not only is Punto taking up a roster spot, but he’s chewing up $2.4 mil in salary–for a guy that might not make another major league roster!
Cut Punto….. I know 2.4 million is a bite but, someone desperate will give him the minimum……. so we’d only have to pay 1.9 million. This would improve the team.
Lala,
It is exceedingly clear that if you had stayed in class, you might have become an intellectual.
thrylos
You can’t look at wins and losses when a specific pitcher was on the mound. The thing you are missing is that Santana threw 50 more innings than either Bonser or Baker. So really the bullpen is responsible for some of that discrepency because they were throwing more innings in the games that Boof and Baker started.
You also need to look at ERA as that is the only thing the a Pitcher can control. The pitcher can’t control how many runs are scored when they pitch. I agree that last year was not Santana’s best but if Boof or Baker had the same stats as Santana last year then everyone would have been shocked.
romer, i hear ya
but you know, you gotta hope
Am I the only one here that’s getting tired of the “veteran” talk? I mean, really, what have “veterans” done for us lately? Johan didn’t bring us a World Championship, nor did Torii or Silva.
A lot of these green players are downright exciting. Let’s give them the chance. Just because you have experience doesn’t mean it’s good experience, you know?
Shawn
If you cut Punto you have to pay his whole salary even if he gets picked up by someone else. Plus the team is way below their estimated budget so $2.4 million wouldn’t be that big of a deal. They are keeping him around becaue they like him. (I’m not saying it is a good reason.)
I didn’t know that about MLB deals… must have been thinking of something else. I know they like him, hell, I like him. Just don’t think he is worthy of a spot anymore.
Wow, the guy with the “inthejohn” moniker insults the intelligence of the guy with the fresh, ink-still-drying M.S. I love it.
ITJ, you enjoy yourself here–find another fight to pick; I’m on my way to other realms. (And take it easy on those adverbs! They make you look lazy.)
Take care, sport.
Love ya Lala
jama,
agreed up to a point:
A major factor on how many innings a pitcher is pitching is the manager. Baker was in the minor leagues for part of the year and Bonser was in the doghouse (his own doing.) Santana had 33 starts and pitched 219 innings (or 6 2/3 inn/start), Bonser 30 starts 173 inn (5 2/3 inn/start), Baker 23 starts (or 6 1/3 inn/start). So Baker was close to Santana in innings/start (just fewer starts) ERA is a good measure about how good a pitcher is but wins is all it matters. If you are going to win a game 6-4 (with someone with a 4.00 ERA) vs 4-1 (with someone with a 1.00 ERA) counts the same in the standings. Of course someone with 1.00 ERA will give you a higher chance to win 2-1 and 1-0 type games. My previous argument is that Santana did not win many of those last year
Lala, I’m not for the veteran Everett over Casilla, or the vertan Monroe over Gomez, or Punto/Harris over Tolbert.
But 200-inning veteran pitchers are important to protect the bullpen and to build confidence for the whole team.
And they prevent the 12-man pitching staff, and make a team stronger and give a team a stronger bench.
And it’s almost impossible to have an ace of the staff unless he’s a veteran.
hoooo man you guys got lucky today. Listen up and listen well. In the regular season those scatching line drives off my bat will be heading over the fence. FAR.OVER.THE.FENCE. It’ll be like “Markakis swings and there’s a drive to left that’s not coming back. Delmon Young turns and watches it go about 10 rows back. Just like that the O’s are on top by 3.”
If Johan had ever been given a 3 or 4 run lead, Gardy never would have left him in to pitch so many innings. Hard to take him out in the 7th inning of a 1-1 or 0-0 ballgame.
Another factor in losing Santana and Silva is they were matched up against other teams better pitchers. Boof and Baker will not be facing other team’s 3rd, 4th and 5th starters this year. They will be pitching against other teams 1st, 2nd and 3rd starters. Even if they improve, the team record could be worse.
thrylos
The fact that Santana averaged one inning more per start than did Bonser is very significant. That extra work for the bullpen adds up. Santana’s ability to pitch deeper into games gives the team a benefit that isn’t reflected in his win/loss record.
I agree that Santana didn’t have his best year last year, but Bonser ‘08 will not be as good as Santana ‘07.
As far as 200 innings go, these are the projections for these 3 based on last year. If they made 33 starts they would have pitched the following innings:
Baker: 206 1/3
Slowey: 200 1/3
Bonser: 190 1/3
(Hernandez had 204 1/3 last year)
As far as his spring training stats go, last year he had ST with Arizona and he was even worse than now. His ERA was 13.06, 3HR, 2BB, 5K. (this year is 9.69, 2HR, 3BB, 6K) He ended up the season 11-11 with 4.93 ERA. I’d take that from his this year…
Romer:
But 200-inning veteran pitchers are important to protect the bullpen and to build confidence for the whole team.
If those innings are by liven large with his 5.5 era it should make everyone on the team confident.
During the past few years, the team’s fortunes and Santana’s were one and the same: tough down the stretch - weak in the playoffs.
It would be nice if there were some updates on the game today.
Dan,
rotten facilities in O’s training camp. press has limited internet access. If any, on site.
Twins won 4-2, Mauer 3 rbi’s including 2 run dinger…
“Boof and Baker will not be facing other team’s 3rd, 4th and 5th starters this year. They will be pitching against other teams 1st, 2nd and 3rd starters.”
I looked into who they faced last year… Bonser was actually our 2nd starter last year and because as the season progresses due to cancellations, injuries etc the matchups change, Baker ended up facing several #1 starters… Among the pitchers they faced (in parenthesis the numbers they faced a particular pitcher)
Bonser:
Beckett
Weaver
Haren
Buehrle
Clemens
Capuano
Vasquez
Pettite
Baker:
Vasquez
Carmona (2)
Bedard
Bonderman (2)
thrylos98,
You are quite right that matchups change during the year and that they faced some good pitchers last year. My point is that they will face those pitchers even more this year since they are moving up in our rotation.
by all accounts the two both have had highs and lows and appear to be pretty even. So that is why I say go with Span for the first 2 months, worst case scenario it costs the Twins between 1-4 wins. Plus it takes some of the pressure off Gomez and allows him to work on his swing in AAA.
That makes sense, but I still disagree. Span has had a great spring to make it close, but he’s nowhere near as exciting as Gomez. It’s not just about wins. It’s about excitement. Gomez is like Adrian Peterson, he might be no more effective than Taylor, but every time he touches the ball, your adrenaline goes up. Every time Gomez steps up to the plate or takes a lead off a base, you get excited. That will sell tickets.
Also, normally I would say the kid needs time in the minors to learn the strike zone, etc. But I think he’s a little special case who will step up his game against tougher competition and do better with major league instruction.
Another point about young starting pitchers: they can have a break out year out of nowhere…
Examples:
a. Certain pitcher, never won more than 8 games in AAA, first year with big club (22 y.o.) went 1-10 with a 5.42 ERA and a couple trips back to the minors. How did he do his second year?
b. Another pitcher, won a total of 7 games at AAA and was a call up into the bigs when he was 25, when he went 8-5 with 4.02 ERA. How did he do his second and third years?
c. A third pitcher, got his first ML cup of coffee at 22, lost all games he started and finished with ERA of 7.15. He also never pitched a AAA inning in his life. How did he do the next 2 years?
And you can probably add Santana to that list…
Can you guess the 3 names above?
I am listed the above examples because they are similar to what b. Slowey & c. Blackburn have done with the Twins…
Young pitchers can and do have phenomenal years from time to time. It’s just that the Twins have 4 young pitchers at once. If we are going to win the division or make the playoffs, we are going to have to catch lightening in a bottle on 3 of the 4 young pitchers. Not good odds, but you can wish.
inthejohn,
I think that if Liriano comes back healthy with a decent velocity, finds the plate and is not afraid to throw his slider the only starter that could potentially have a less than .500 record would be Hernandez
Is a. Carmona??
yeap a. is Carmona
If a. is Carmona, you have to qualify it by that it was his first time ever closing games at any level and blew a bunch of saves.
Thryos98,
I hope your right. What a year that would be. It’s just a lot of ifs for Liriano and none of the young guys have proved that yet. None of them have pitched a complete year in the majors yet. Boof is closest, but he has not had a year where he wasn’t sent back down to the minors. I am looking for a big year from him. I saw him at Twinsfest and did not recognize him. I bet he lost at least 30 pounds from last year.
c is Verlander.
inthejohn,
those guys are due for it. Just the fact that Boof did what he did last off-season is really big. I really thing that the 2 guys from this group who are going to be really special are Slowey and Blackburn, based on their stuff and what they did in the minors…
LNP4life,
that would have given it away even easier… the point is that nobody expected Carmona to have a year like he did last year, be it because of previous bad management or whatever, but nobody expected it…
correct again c. is Verlander…
i can’t figure the B guy. was thinkin Haren, Carpenter, Lackey Webb . none of the above
here is hint about the b. guy:
he had 4 more wins the last 2 years than Santana and the Twins were rumored to ask for him (plus others) in exchange for Santana
not chen ming wang. I was thinking of him but didn’t really care about him
yeap… 3 out of 3…
Would you mind having him on the Twins next season?
My point about this whole thing is that you never know when a young pitcher is going to break through and get 18-20 wins out of nowhere… other than the above mentioned similarities (Wang/Slowey, Verlander/Blackburn with 3 years difference), Baker’s career has been very similar to that of Peavy, Boof will be steady and when Liriano was on the top of his game he was better than Santana…
H O P E
that’s all we can do
he’s not what I’d call an ace. I see him as a solid #2. His win total are misleading cuz he plays for the yankees. And pitching with a lead and knowing your team can score in bunches helps a guy. In a different environment he would be a better version of carlos silva. Comparing Baker to Peavy might be a reach.
“Comparing Baker to Peavy might be a reach.”
The numbers:
Minor league stats:
Baker: 2.99 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Peavy: 2.59 ERA 1.11 WHIP
1st year in the majors
Baker: 3.35 ERA 1.155 WHIP
Peavy: 4.52 ERA 1.423 WHIP
2nd
Baker: 6.37 ERA 1.560 WHIP
Peavy: 4.11 ERA 1.310 WHIP
3rd:
Baker: 4.26 ERA 1.329 WHIP
Peavy: 2.27 ERA 1.196 WHIP
and we are talking about NL vs. AL…
also Baker was 3 outs away from a perfect game last year. Baker is more of a (sinking)Fastball-Change-Curve pitcher while Peavy is a (sinking)Fastball-Change-Slider pitcher
Toby Gardenhire hit .212 last year in A ball. Enough said!
Thank you kindly again, thrylos, for your investigation and report!
After your hint, I woulda guessed Wang.
BTW, looks like there’s a bunch of people still short-changing Baker. I remember his excellent game against the Tigers on ESPN that mid-season Sunday night last year. And of course the close-to-perfect game v. KC.
He’s becoming a pitcher’s pitcher. Don’t know how he does it really. He still leaves the ball up a lot. Lots of tricky movement I guess.
His stamina looks good too.
I wonder what the Twins’ approach will be with the 12-man. In 2006, Guerrier was of course the emergency long man counted on for as many as 4 innings when a starter completely failed. He’ll be back in that role again this year.
And I suppose the 12th man will be in that role too. This time though, they can plan it out regarding the likes of Liriano and Baker(initially) —- plan it out and more or less make a co-starter out of a Blackburn or Humber or Perkins. Technically, one of these guys and Guerrier could be thought of as co-starters is what I’m saying.
I remember the Twins being in a contant situation like this (15 years ago?) where 2 or more starters would do real good for 3+ innings and then the bottom would fall out.
Ever since then, I’ve always wanted to propose a co-starter system with 4 guys regular covering the 4th and 5th starter positions. Right now it would look like:
1- Livan
2- Boof
3- Slowey
4- Baker/Perkins
5- Liriano/Blackburn
All 7 “starting” pitchers in this regular rotation.
When Baker comes around, then assign Perkins to another starter, whoever is doing the weakest.
Blackburn and Perkins have the makeup to accept these roles. And if anyone can manage such a system, that would be Coach Anderson.
And starters wouldn’t feel like failures if they go only 3-4 innings.
And there is less helter-skelter in the bullpen.
I realize I’m a little naive on this, but there seems to be so many benefits.
Slowey dominated in the minors.If he comes up with a out pitch,he could dominate up here.
That’s what being a real sports fan is all about. That’s why, at this level, they say winning is everything. Thus, we gripe until we win it all. Get it?
Ah yes, the tired “No true scotsman” fallacy.
I’m sorry, but as a fan I’d much rather see this team take a step back and rebuild so they don’t go through another disasterous offseason as the one TR’s poor planning left us with in 07.
Meanwhile you can go root for the Yankees the Red Sox. They like to throw money around even if it means they end up having a year when half their team retires or they spend $300 million in an offseaon and don’t even ADD anybody.
GENO,
Coming up with an out pitch is a HUGE jump forward for any pitcher, but
especially for one with fringy stuff and great command like Slowey.
I wish he could make that jump.
Slowey has his 13 K’s in 10.2 innings. He’s not a power pitcher. Don’t know if he could find an out pitch, or if he needs one.
Right now, he’s OUT-thinking some hitters and OUT-pitching over some hitters. He’s had 3 decent outings our of 4 this ST. Still needs to get his pitches down a little.
Blackburn dominated recently at AAA too. What you see is what you get with him too.
I think the thing is that the twins COULD win 90 games next season. Do I think it’s going to happen? No way. But it is possible, it would just take A LOT of things to go as well or better than expected and very little to go wrong.
If certain players just do as well as last year (Harris, Lamb, Baker, Livan), some rebound to their 2006 career years (Mauer, Morneau, Bonser, Liriano), some young players show why they did so well in the minors (Slowey, Humber, Perkins), and maybe a breakout year from somebody not expected to play that well (Whoever the hell our centerfielder is), oh, and Nick Punto doesn’t have more than 50 at bats, then we could definately have a 90 win season.
Are any of those things that unlikely? No, except maybe Nick Punto having only 50 at bats. what’s unlikely is that ALL or MOST of those things will happen and nobody important will get hurt.
So for all the optimists out there, why the hell not talk about 90 wins? There will be plenty of time to complain about 70 in a few months.
Oh, and as far as the complaining about Bonser replacing Santana…
It is irrelevent why we only won 16 games with Santana pitching, it was a combination of bad offense, bad luck, and a slightly sub-par year.
The point is that we ONLY WON 16 GAMES that Santana started last year! It would be very reasonable to believe that we could win 16 wins or more with bonser, with a better offense, hopefully better stamina than last year, and maybe some better luck.
It’s also possible that we’ll win 12 of Bonser’s starts, and Livan will be worse than Ortiz, the point is that it is possible that we’ll be in contention, though not that likely.
Did anyone notice this gem on the Twins website? I think we won the game, right?
Humber allows first runs of spring
Mauer stays hot with two-run homer, RBI single in loss
By Spencer Fordin / MLB.com
The Twins will wait until the team is out of the competition (June 1st?), but at that point, I sure hope to be seeing Tolbert and Casilla as the new DP combo.
Romer-I was watching baseball games with your grandfather.You must have learned from listening to Tim McCarver.By the way,you haven’t said if i was right about the body shots you were going to send me.
I think the thing is that the twins COULD win 90 games next season. Do I think it’s going to happen? No way.
They could, but they won’t? So if they won’t, they can’t.
some rebound to their 2006 career years
I dunno if you can expect four guys to “rebound” to a career year. You normally rebound from a bad season and reach your average. A career year is just that…a year so awesome that it’ll be hard to top.
But that’s all semantics. Just wanted to make sure you didn’t get your hopes up. Watch this season for what it is, a reshuffling year (I don’t want to say rebuild because they didn’t dump EVERYBODY) and a sign of life from 09 and beyond.
It would be very reasonable to believe that we could win 16 wins or more with bonser, with a better offense, hopefully better stamina than last year, and maybe some better luck.
The reason we won 16 games with Santana last year was because he’s Santana. He’s a superior pitcher to Bonser and is more than capable (on average) of making up for a poor offensive performance.
As you’ve pointed out. Bonser has some question marks going into this season, and will likely need the benefit of an upgraded offense to match Santana’s win total.
In short, the young rotation and improved offense will likely break even (this is just my opinion) as a average scenario. If some of the scores we’ve seen this spring hold out…best case scenario is they finish over .500 (but just barely) and maybe 3rd in the division. Worst case scenario is sub .500 and 4th. I haven’t heard anything about the Royals or Sox this spring yet, and all I can guess is both will be in about hte same position (Sox supplementing their current vets with some rookies, while the Royals are preparred to go a full year with a core team of guys brought up last year)
I hope JoeC or LEN3 break down the division pretty soon. It’d be nice to know about teams not named Detroit.
Thrylos98,
I hear what your saying on Baker. He’s a good pitcher. But Peavy is on another level. Baker’s sinker hits 92, while Peavy’s comes it at 95 with a lot more movement. When I first saw him, I was amazed with that pitch. Peavy’s strike out rate, 9.02 career, blows Bakers, 6.3, away. Peavy has a career batting ave against of .232 while Bakers is .291. Peavy was also pitching well in the bigs at 21 while Baker didn’t establish himself here until last year at 24. That’s why I think comparing Baker to Peavy was a little bit of a reach. I would love Baker to become a dominating Cy Young award winner, but he has some work to do to get there. Peavy has been there and been doing it for a couple years now
I guess I have always like Peavy from the first I saw of him. My favorite pitch was always the 2 seamer. Nothing better than busting a guy inside with that pitch.
They could, but they won’t? So if they won’t, they can’t.
Um, modal logic anyone? “Could” means it is possible. “Won’t” in this context means it’s highly unlikely. But highly unlikely does not imply impossible.
If Liriano returns to form by May, Baker and Bonser continue to make strides, Humber or Blackburn step up to pick up Livan’s slack and Slowey is solid, the Twins could win 90. The likelihood of all five of those things happening is slim. But remember, the Twins were five games under 500 on June 11 2006, pulled it all together and made the improbable comeback they did. Last year the Rockies won like 22 out of their last 23 games. Stranger things have happened.
Twins Rule V Losses:
Tim Lahey, RHP Cubs
0-1, 5.87, 3K, 5BB,
RA Dickey RHP Mariners
0-0, 1.50 12IP, 6K, 3BB
Garrett Guzman OF Nationals
18AB, 4H, .222BA, 1HR, 2RBI, .744OPS
I really don’t see the Twins as improved as far as hitting goes. Bartlett, Castillo and Hunter are better than what the Twins have now, at those positions, as far as hitting goes.
Young is a good line drive hitter. He is an improvement. Lamb can’t field, but if Gardy leaves him at third (doubtful), he is a better hitter than Punto. Monroe is still a question mark.
Overall, no better, maybe a little worse hitting.
The fielding is also slightly worse, especially at third.
The starting pitching is the biggest perceived drop-off from last season. A guy with a 79 MPH fastball, as the “Ace”, replacing Santana, is the biggest hole in this sinking ship.
At this point, the Twins could really use Garza and Bartlett, more than a corner outfielder. They have plenty of those.
More to life than baseball… sometimes it’s a good idea to take a deep breath and remember how fortunate many of us are
Yankees help with healing at Virginia Tech
By Sam Borden • Journal News columnist • March 19, 2008
BLACKSBURG, Va. - The buses pulled up a little before 11:30 a.m., idling in front of Burruss Hall. Normally, that is where organized campus tours of Virginia Tech begin; yesterday, it was just the place where the healing continued.
Yankees general manager Brian Cashman sat at the front of the first bus, captain Derek Jeter at the front of the second. One by one, all of the Yankees’ traveling party stepped out and walked through the memorial dedicated to the 32 people killed here last April when a gunman opened fire in a dormitory and on classrooms. The memorial is 32 stones, arranged in a horseshoe, with about 2 feet between them. One name on each, with one larger stone in the middle. An Easter lily lay in the center of it all.
Jeter was near the front of the group. He moved slowly, peering at each stone. Then he came upon the No. 2 jersey that had been placed next to a stone near the end. “I just wanted him to see it,” said Marcy Crevonis, a 19-year-old sophomore, who put the shirt beside the stone honoring her slain fiancé, Michael Pohle of New Jersey. Jeter saw it. Then he saw Crevonis standing nearby. She was wearing a Yankees shirt with a picture of Pohle screened on the back, and she turned around to show it to Jeter. “Would you sign on his face?” she said, and he obliged. When she asked for a picture, he agreed again, but said he would do it only if she smiled.
“And she did smile,” he said later.
It was that sort of afternoon. Smiles and giddiness from the Virginia Tech fans and players over the Yankees being here, sprinkled with moments or memories that reminded everyone about what had brought them here in the first place. Final scores never matter much in spring training anyway, and the 11-0 win for the Yanks mattered even less than usual.
“I think it was very important for us to be here, to be present,” Alex Rodriguez said. “To come here to Virginia Tech, to unite with them for a day. … This is the proudest I’ve ever been to wear a Yankee uniform.”
Some of the Yankees, such as Jeter and Jorge Posada, have done this before, have seen how baseball can somehow help after a tragedy. When the Yankees visited with victims’ families following 9/11, they weren’t sure how they helped, but they knew they did. People told them. It was the same here. Standing on the field before the game, Theresa Walsh, who graduated from Virginia Tech last year, said the Yankees’ presence “gives people hope.” Walsh was in Norris Hall on the morning of April 16, and she heard the clattering of gunshots from inside her classroom. She poked her head out the door to see what was happening, and saw the shooter, senior Seung-Hui Cho, down the hall. He turned and fired at her, bullets whizzing by her ear and lodging in the wall. She dove back inside the classroom and locked the door, praying Cho would not come in her direction.
“You don’t want to dwell on it,” she said quietly, standing behind home plate as the Hokies took batting practice. Then she said, “It was surreal. It was just very surreal.”
During a pregame ceremony, Virginia Tech officials presented Yankees officials - including general partner Hal Steinbrenner - with nameplates made out of Hokie stone, a type of limestone that is used in buildings all over campus. Then there was a moment of silence in memory of the victims, followed by a 32-balloon release, the orange orbs floating softly into the breeze.
“It was one more way to say goodbye,” said Sean O’Brien, the Hokies’ senior first baseman from Chappaqua.
O’Brien got to talk with most of the Yankees after they reached base, and Jeter graciously gave him a pair of batting gloves as a gift. O’Brien said he also enjoyed chatting with Johnny Damon after Damon led off the game with a walk, though O’Brien admitted his focus wasn’t what it should have been, and Jeter’s subsequent line drive got past him for an error.
It was O’Brien’s first error of the season (A-Rod made one, too, an inning later) and he’s a ballplayer, so he was disappointed. Just not as much as he would have been on any other day.
Everyone took away something different. For some Hokies, it was simply getting the chance to be around major-leaguers. At one point during batting practice, a slew of Hokies ran up to O’Brien, a team captain, with huge grins on their faces, shrieking about how the Yankees had changed their plans and were now going to stay in town for the evening. “Jeter said, ‘So what are we doing tonight?’ ” one of them said, and O’Brien could only stare in disbelief.
Jeter was, of course, just kidding, but the Hokies’ giddiness looked real. They just wanted to be near the Yankees; when the Yankees were doing their pregame hitting, the Virginia Tech players stopped warming up and simply stood around the batting cage, watching.
Manager Joe Girardi’s most memorable moment came when he visited with legendary Hokie football coach Frank Beamer in the middle of the game. Taking a trip into the stands, Girardi sat with Beamer and talked about the recovery process the campus is enduring.
“A young woman came up and told me that her brother had died, had been in the shooting,” Girardi said afterward, choking up slightly as he spoke. “Then she said that her mother said ‘Thank you’ to us for coming.”
It was an emotional moment for Girardi, and there were plenty others. The deepest feeling among the Yankees, though, wasn’t with Girardi or A-Rod or even Jeter when he signed the back of Crevonis’ shirt. It was with Brian Brennan, a spring intern with the Yankees in Tampa who works as a clubhouse attendant at Legends Field. He normally wouldn’t have been on the trip at all, but he asked for special permission to come along so he could see the stone for his high school friend, Ross Alameddine, who died at age 20 only because he happened to sign up for a particular French class that met in Norris Hall on Monday mornings.
Sitting in the back of the locker room while the Yankees changed out of their uniforms late yesterday afternoon, Brennan talked about the strangeness of that realization, and how he and other friends spent last April 16 posting on Alameddine’s “wall” on Facebook as they watched the news unfold on television. “Let us know you’re OK,” they wrote. “We haven’t heard from you.”
They never did. Brennan wasn’t sure how it would feel to walk past his friend’s stone, and he said, “It was tough, really tough.” Then he straightened up. “But it’s good that people can see it, that it’s permanent there,” he said. “It will be there for everyone to see forever.”
As much as anything, that is what this game was truly about. There was healing. There was baseball. And 11 months after a day everyone will always remember, the Yankees and Hokies had a day that none of them will ever forget.
Craig,
Young and Hunter are a draw. Harris shows much more potential as a hitter than the slap hitting Castillo. He was nothing but singles, only 38 rbi, and those bad knees limit his games.
Bartlett, last 2 yrs combined .282 and only 38 doubles. Adam Everett the last 2 years .237 and 39 doubles with about 100 fewer at bats. Everett should see a spike in average not batting 8th in a NL lineup with the pitcher behind him. Lamb and Punto isn’t even a contest. Monroe can out hit Tyner and Co. as our DH/OF. I think the hitting is far beyond last years.
Everett is a better fielder than Bartlett, Castillo didn’t have that great of range but if he could get to it, it was an out. Harris can match the range, but not quite as slick as Castillo. Lamb can’t field like Punto, but the hitting productions should balance it out. Monroe should be fine in the OF.
As far as Garza is concerned, he got hit a lot more than a power strikeout pitcher should, and I don’t really see our multitude of corner OF. Without Young, who do we have, remember, when that trade was made, no Monroe or Gomez, just Kubel, Cuddyer, and Jones with MLB experience.
Craig,
IMO the description of Delmon as just “a corner outfielder” will soon be a massive understatement.
Similar to the Twins giving up a “starting pitcher” in the Mets trade.
The difference between Delmon and Monroe/Kubel/Cuddyer/ hasn’t been revealed yet.
Garza (so far) has been Bonser/Baker/Slowey/Blackburn/Humber/
Bass with a stronger arm and less command. But,he may become better than the others. Problem is, the Rays wanted Garza for Delmon and IMO we made a great deal.
I agree sane. For the longest time the complaint was that the Twins hoarded pitching it didn’t need and let its bats go free.
Well, they finally did what we wanted. They took a chance and traded one of their many pitchers for a desperately young bat.
