Harris wins Twins second base job
Posted on March 25th, 2008 – 12:06 PMBy Joe Christensen
BRADENTON, FLA. — Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said before today’s game that Brendan Harris would likely be the team’s regular second baseman, though Nick Punto and Matt Tolbert will both get chances to play there.
“We’ll start there and see where it goes,” Gardenhire said.
Gardenhire also said the staff remains “leery” of whether Scott Baker and Francisco Liriano will be able to open the season on the roster. The first three games will be started by Livan Hernandez, Boof Bonser and Kevin Slowey, in that order, the manager added.
Gardenhire said he’ll stick with Carlos Gomez in the leadoff spot, and he said Mike Lamb will not be a primary backup option for Justin Morneau at first base. Lamb will stick to third base, and on days when Morneau gets a breather, Michael Cuddyer will play first.
Punto gets a start at shortstop today and will bat leadoff, as Gardenhire wants to get him as many at-bats as possible. Punto is batting .139 (5-for-36).
Twins
1. Nick Punto, SS
2. Joe Mauer, C
3. Michael Cuddyer, RF
4. Jon Knott, 1B
5. Craig Monroe, CF
6. Jason Kubel, LF
7. Mike Lamb, 3B
8. Brendan Harris, 2B
9. Kevin Slowey, P
Pirates
1. Nate McLouth, CF
2. Jack Wilson, SS
3. Jason Bay, LF
4. Adam LaRoche, 1B
5. Ryan Doumit, C
6. Xavier Nady, RF
7. Jose Bautista, 3B
8. Luis Rivas, 2B
9. Ian Snell, P
McKechnie Field. First pitch, 12:06 p.m. (Central). First-pitch temperature, 61 degrees.
243 Responses to "Harris wins Twins second base job"
Find the flawed logic:
“Punto gets a start at shortstop today and will bat leadoff, as Gardenhire wants to get him as many at-bats as possible. Punto is batting .139 (5-for-36).”
Gardy can give LNP all the at bats he thinks he needs to in Spring Training, just as long as he gets very few in the Regular Season!
The logic is why not get him as many game swings as you can, and hope he finds out how to not gently hit the ball in the air to left.
The more AB’s in ST, the better. The game doesn’t mean anything.
anybody have the link to gameday. I can never find that stupid website.
So…let’s give our bench player more at-bats than our starting 2nd Baseman who is batting 8th??? Where is Craig. I need him to explain this for me. Only he can understand this kind of bassackwards logic.
slowey- 3 up 3 down
Joe why did you need to add fuel to the fire by mentioning the AB’s for Punto you know the Pirahnas on this site just wait for info like that.
Anyone else think that keeping Tolbert and Punto is redundant? Perhaps Gardy is giving Punto as many at bats to see if he can get something to click. If not, maybe Punto is on his way out at the end of the week.
I don’t like the fact that we don’t have an experienced backup at 1B. Could Knott make the team as a possible 1B sub instead of Punto as a redundant Utility Infielder?
I love it. The Punto-Whiners finally get what they want, and they still find reasons to whine.
Punto’s getting as many at-bats to work out the kinks in Spring Training when it doesn’t matter to anybody. Harris will still get starts but since he’s the starter he’s going to have a whole season.
You got what you wanted, now all of you just shut up. When Harris or Lamb or Gomez struggles in April you can all come back and latch on and ride that guy for two years and it’ll all be back to normal.
On to normal discussion:
Lamb will stick to third base, and on days when Morneau gets a breather, Michael Cuddyer will play first.
This makes sense. Morneau comes out. So Cuddy takes over 1st. Monroe can then either fill in RF. Or they can slide over Young/Gomez and have Kubel/Monroe cover the opening.
1-0 twins knott solo home run
That had better have been tongue in cheek about Gardy wanting Punto to get as many at-bats as possible…
son of a bitch guys you can already see how this is going down…Harris will boot a ball in the next day or two and come monday….”Batting eighth, No. 8, second baseman Nick Punto”
T,
You say spring training doesn’t matter to anyboy. What about Tolbert and Bass. Seems like they made the team based on Spring Training. Why can’t a guy like Punto not make the team by having a poor Sprint Training that was proceded by a horrible regular season?
You also say that it makes sense to have Cuddy take over 1st for Morneau. When was the last time Cuddy played 1st base? Besides Pitcher and Catcher, which other position is involved in the most plays during a game that matters? I would prefer to have someone play first that has some experience there. Maybe it won’t matter. Morneau will be the Iron Man - 162 games played.
A blind sow has a better chance of finding an acorn than Punto getting a hit today.
Tolbert can also play first. I think he played their in the futures game last year.
I sure hope Monroe gets 500 ABs this year and not that other guy.
By the way….for the Lewww lovers among us…I offer these two notes from recent reports from Japan in exhibition games against the Red Sox and A’s:
“Hanshin right-fielder Lew Ford, a Red Sox draft pick in 1999 who hit .272 the past five seasons with Minnesota, went 1-for-2 with two walks.”
“A’s catcher Kurt Suzuki, who had provided two hits the night before, was robbed of an extra-base hit in the second when Hanshin right fielder Lew Ford, the former Minnesota Twin, made a flying catch in the gap.”
I knew everyone wanted that update as we look to see which player will grab second base–the .139 hitter or the .239 hitter!
“The logic is why not get him as many game swings as you can, and hope he finds out how to not gently hit the ball in the air to left.
The more AB’s in ST, the better. The game doesn’t mean anything.”
All it means is that Punto will take away at bats from Harris. Yeah, it’s ST and the games don’t count, but that doesn’t mean they don’t count towards Harris’ development. He could be using the same AB’s to work out kinks. Instead, Punto gets them for no real purpose. Except to maybe make Harris anxious about his job security.
I’m sure he’s a nice guy, but he’s a bad baseball player. Call me a whiner, that’s just how I feel.
I would rather have Lamb or Tolbert play backup at 1B the Cuddyer.
“Hanshin right-fielder Lew Ford, a Red Sox draft pick in 1999 who hit .272 the past five seasons with Minnesota, went 1-for-2 with two walks.”
Oh goody. Lew Ford is batting .500 after two at-bats. I’m so happy for him.
I knew everyone wanted that update as we look to see which player will grab second base–the .139 hitter or the .239 hitter!
Thanks Jason. I was just wondering how much better our current 2nd base situation would’ve been if we hadn’t dumped outfielder Lew Ford.
Patrick, you are not a whiner–you’re being rational, something the Twins apparently wish to disregard in this situation. If for no other reason than to put to bed any debate about whether or not Harris’ job is safe, getting Punto ABs should NOT be a priority.
To me, it’s nothing short of embarrassing that it took Gardy this long to “indicate” that Harris is the starter “for now”
Punto K’s Mauer and Cuddyer both double
2-0 Twins
FYI,
Cuddyer played 4 games at 1B last year.
No flaws in 2 innings for Slowey.
The TV announcer didn’t think Knott’s HR had a chance since it was hit into a bit of a strong wind; but it cleared the fence easily. A screaming liner. He’s got MLB power.
Back to back doubles for Mauer and Cuddy, both pulled perfectly down the line.
give nicky a chance his slump has only been a year and a spring training, he could break out of it any time before the new ball park is done. wish somebody could get the pictures of gardy away from him so he can’t blackmail him any more. did he slide into first when he walked?
Also, he’s played a handful of games at 1B every year since 2001.
When was the last time Cuddy played 1st base?
Last year around August when Morneau colided with the Marlins catcher and was held up for a week or so with a punctured lung.
Didn’t go to badly if I recall. The bigger disaster was having to put Darnell McDonald in RF.
What about Tolbert and Bass. Seems like they made the team based on Spring Training.
The game is meaningless. Harris has won the starting job. He’ll get his at-bats, but obviously Gardy’s seen enough that he’s confident Harris is ready to go.
Punto’s in the last year of a contract that the Twins staff knows was an overreaction to a career year. If they just release him, they still have to pay him…and if they put him in the minors odds are he gets claimed (and the Twins I believe have to cover some of those costs).
It’s over. Punto’s not the starter, and he won’t be a Twin after 2008. Can we move on?
hell, at this point it would be worth it for Gardy to say ‘go ahead, Nicky, release those photos’
His wife will definitely forgive him if it means benching LNP…hell, his wife would probably punish him for not doing it earlier.
Punto will get every opportunity to fail because he has a contract for way more than he’s worth.
To me, it’s nothing short of embarrassing that it took Gardy this long to “indicate” that Harris is the starter “for now”
I love how in one breath you rip on both players for their inability to hit and then turn around and make it a sign of weakness that Gardy took this long to make a choice.
So which was it? Was Harris clearly superior and Gardy’s a moron. Or are both players crap and Gardy took as much time as he needed to choose the lesser of two-evils.
I don’t think your one to assign rationality, Jason.
Nice try T but we can’t move on….
think of all the excess cash the Twins were more than happy to part ways with in the early goings the last two years….Tony Bautista, Sidney Ponson, etc….this is not about just letting him coast into the sunset ala Lew Ford of a year ago–we know Gardy, he is looking for an excuse to pull the trigger and pencil Punto in as the starter…batting him lead-off today is clear evidence of this.
it’s not that tough, T–
both players are rippable, but even Stevie Wonder can see that Punto shouldn’t even be in the conversation.
Brendan Harris is our 2B…this should’ve been decided weeks ago. To me, that’s being rational.
Cuddy is holding the bat differently this year it may help him with stuff up in the zone. He has been good in ST. Then again Knott should play ahead of Morneau based on ST. Still nice to see Cuddy with all the extra base hits.
think of all the excess cash the Twins were more than happy to part ways with in the early goings the last two years
I’m sorry, what does that have to do with anything? Morneau, Cuddy, and Nathan all have long term contracts now. Care to join the rest of us in 2008?
batting him lead-off today is clear evidence of this.
No. All I see are a few whiny fans who are desperately trying to cling to something they can moan about for another year.
By your own admission, Harris isn’t much better. Why not just latch onto the Harris Express and whine that pony all the way to 2009? Heck, he’ll likely be starting in 2010. That’ll give you a whole two seasons and a couple of offseasons to complain.
You should be excited right now!
Look at the bright side. Maybe they’re giving Punto a chance to fail too. If they release him during the year and give his utility position to Tolbert and bring up a Ruiz or whoever, then they can say they gave Punto all the chances he needed to get ready for this year.
Gardy and the whole staff should be fired. Too much of the same. He’s proven he can’t judge talent and run a team without playing favorites and wet-nursing players so they won’t go dobber down for not getting a chance to fail at their role.
Slowey- nine up nine down looking good
Perhaps Punto should learn a new language.
Ponson, Ortiz, Bautista, Castro made less combined then Punto makes this year.
He’s proven he can’t judge talent and run a team without playing favorites and wet-nursing players
So you’d rather Gardy wait until the regular season to give Punto regular at-bats?
I’m sorry, I should be more understanding. The bandwagon’s in disarray following the news that Harris is the starting 2nd baseman. I need to give you guys a few days to regroup and come back with something new to complain about.
I can’t wait to see Punto somehow get blamed for losses he doesn’t even play in.
No need for Slowley to hurry, it’s the best of GL today after the game.
I’d rather Punto got cut.
Agreed. Cut him or sit him ala L-Rod…anything less and it will be fair game to rip Gardy.
I’d rather Punto got cut.
Won’t happen. If they cut him they still pay him. If he’s going to take up salary he’d better at least do SOMETHING to earn it.
T, you’ve mastered the obvious.
Cut him or sit him ala L-Rod…
That’s what they’re going to do. In the regular season. When the games matter.
On a side note. Oh MAN! Look at Jon Knott there in the lineup at 1B taking up valuable play time from Morneau. Man that Gardy’s an IDIOT!
Come on everybody! Hate Jon Knott! He’s wasting precious Spring at-bats! Hurry…bandwagons leaving!
T, are you a woman?
well, you do bring up a good point, accidentally, T–is there anything to be concerned about with Morneau’s slow spring (combined with his drop-off in the second half last year)…with what he’s already proven, the answer, I would hope, would be a loud “no”.
Look, on Punto, the point is, we can’t stand to see him in the lineup at any cost…I don’t care what the excuse is…you might as well sign Billy Crystal for a couple of games.
You guys are ripping Gardy for playing Punto as it taking ABs away from Harris.
Do you realize Punto is playing SS in place of Everett, Harris is playing 2B today.
Also, generally when teams play on the road during ST they only take about 4 regulars along (unwritten rule). They don’t like having their regulars on the long bus rides, so most of them stay in Fort Myers and either play in minor league games or work in the batting cages.
The announcers analyzing Slowey as indeed perfect today, painting the plate with the catcher’s glove barely moving if at all.
Kubel got good wood but Pirates CF makes a super play. Kubel did a lot of that last year, hitting liners to everybody.
all i know is i’m keeping my fingers crossed i don’t see E4 in the boxscore on the Twins’ side.
Can Punto get an E at the plate?
You guys see Manny today?? He loafed his way around and only got to second on his game winning double. If he had busted it down the line, he could have easily had third. What a punk
slowey getting roughed up in the 4th.
pit up 3-2
3-2 pirates
slowey getting roughed up a bit now but bay shoulda been rung up and would have ended the inning and monroe should have caught a ball hit over his head and woulda ended the inning
Slowey gettng touched. The first RBI was off a good pitch down in the zone. The second RBI saw Cuddy make a lackluster throw to the plate.
Actually his throw was hard but up the 3B line a bit, and he didn’t exactly go afterthe ball in the first place and come up and fire quickly. Kinda like he might have been surprised they were running on him.
Of course a good throw would have ended the inning with a Twins lead 2-1.
Twins behind now 3-2.
The wind is tricky and Monroe misplayed it some.
Slowey got roughed up, but so did the defense.
Seems Gomez isn’t the only centerfielder to missjudge a ball, and the only outfielder to uncork a poor throw.
Fact is, Slowey looked good early, and looked like he got touched on the outside pitches.
Darn Manny,
Yeah, then he loafed backed to the dugout and nobody even talked to him, because the whole clubhouse hates him. He’s hopeless.
They were all like, yeah Manny 2 doubles and 4 RBI’s, but you’re just killing this clubhouse.
Better to hit a soft grounder to short and do a hustling scrappy slide into first base, that’s the “right way.”
For all you Punto/Gardy apologists, why is it ok to defend Punto and say he’s a good fielder, but not to say we don’t want him on the roster? Why is it ok to keep defending him, but not to keep questioning him (you know, the worst hitter in all of MLB last year and an over-rated fielder)?
As for Slowey today, it’s great to see him rounding into form. I have no idea if much of the Pirates’ team is regulars today (looks like I know some of the names), so it’s hard for me to judge this performance. I’ve been pretty hard on Slowey and his ability to get the out, so hopefully he’ll make me look stupid, not Bill Smith and Terry Ryan, by continuing to pitch this way when the games count.
Lots of pitches for Slowey in the inning. He’ll be out for the 5th, up to the plate right now with Harris on.
Harris was out at 1st, looked like he can’t run very well. Ump called him safe.
You know the wind is an issue when the centerfield camera is shaking 
Nice way to leg out that infield hit Harris, Although, I think you were actually out.
Actually I’m glad Slowey had to struggle. It’ll stretch him out. His last ST game, right?
Man, Dick is almost making sense talking about Punto right now.
You have to make consessions, however, at some point, you have to have people that swing the bat, otherwise, you don’t score the runs.
Also, generally when teams play on the road during ST they only take about 4 regulars along (unwritten rule).
I thought it was written? Something tied to bringing at least half the starting lineup so fans of the home team don’t want their guys play a bunch of “scrubs” or B-Squaders. Or is still unwritten, but that’s the reason it’s agreed to?
why is it ok to defend Punto and say he’s a good fielder, but not to say we don’t want him on the roster
I find more of a problem with the constant misuse of logic, the constant paranoia that everything is some conspiracy to get Punto into the starter’s position, and the needless digs when he’s not even the topic of conversation to be more annoying than the factual arguments.
Nobody’s arguing that Punto isn’t a good hitter. We all figured that out last year. The problem is that many of the posters here feel it neccesary to remind us of that at every opportunity. Even if the conversation at the moment revolves around Liriano’s arm or Baker’s back. Or Morneau, Cuddyer, and Nathan contract extensions.
That’s the difference. The ability of some posters to move on.
Punto still letting his arms lunge at the ball as if he’s trying to hit it out.
The predictable result? Major league flyout to right center.
- 4th inning
Craig Monroe strikes out swinging.
Jason Kubel flies out to center fielder Nate McLouth.
Mike Lamb pops out to second baseman Luis Rivas. ~ hi luis
Nate McLouth flies out to center fielder Craig Monroe.
Jack Wilson grounds out, shortstop Nick Punto to first baseman Jon Knott.
Jason Bay singles on a line drive to center fielder Craig Monroe.
Adam LaRoche doubles (1) on a line drive to center fielder Craig Monroe.
Ryan Doumit singles on a ground ball to right fielder Michael Cuddyer.
Xavier Nady singles on a line drive to right fielder Michael Cuddyer.
Jose Bautista flies out to left fielder Jason Kubel.
Thanks for the info, SweetOne. I had forgotten that Cuddy had filled in a few games at first the last couple years.
Please don’t group me in with the Punto haters. I was trying to start a discussion on the relevance of keeping two utility IFs and not a legitimate backup for 1st base. Since the Twins need to keep 12 pitchers, each bench position seems to have a little more significance. It seems like each bench player should have a distinct role; Monroe/Kubel - RH/LH, Redmond - Catcher, Tolbert/Punto - the same player.
My preference would have been to give Tolbert the at-bats that Punto is getting today. We know what Punto is going to do. I know that sounds like Punto hating, but it isn’t. Punto or Tolbert have a role on this team, I’m just not sure that both do.
Jeff,
Since the Twins will only be keeping 4 bench players, they need them to be versatile. You can’t waste a bench spot for someone who can only PH/play 1B.
The exception to that rule is Catcher.
Punto can play 2B, 3B, SS
Tolbert can play everything except P,C.
Monroe can play all 3 OF positions.
If the drop down to 11 pitchers and carry an extra bench player than it would makes sense to keep someone like Ruiz or Knott to PH/1B.
Okay, that is why Monroe should NEVER start in Center.
Come on, on a blooper, you gotta come hard.
I don’t understand how Lamb, who is as much of a first baseman as third baseman isn’t designated as the backup.
The last three years he has played more first than third.
Not that Morneau will get many days off barring injury anyway.
T, posters are feigning conspiracy theories because nothing else seems logical. It’s totally perplexing.
It’s not that he’s a bad or poor hitter, it’s that he’s an incompetent hitter and the worst there is.
Oops, now he blows a play in CF allowing Rivas to make it to second on a Texas League single.
And now Slowey makes a mental error allowing Rivas to get to 3B.
Two on, no outs. Slowey needs to bear down.
Monroe didn’t charge in…then over ran the ball…pretty sloppy..and Slowey tried to get the runner on Snell’s bunt. Runners at the corners no outs.
T,
I’m not sure if the rule is written or not. Actually the first I heard of it was when Dick and Bert were talking about it during Sundays game. He said the rule was 3 or 4 and said that several teams that were visiting Hammond stadium weren’t follwing it this year (including Baltimore on Sunday). I assumed that the rule was unwritten since teams weren’t following it. I don’t think they could choose not to follow on written rule.
We know what Punto is going to do.
That’s sorta the rock and hard place that Gardy’s at. Punto struggled last year, and the only way to break out is to keep getting at-bats to try and workout whatever’s wrong.
But at the same time, yes…there’s a young guy without much experience who could benefit. But then Punto will have to take his “workout” ABs during the season when the games count.
I’d rather see Punto get the ABs now and then have Tolbert get the lion’s share of backup duty once the season starts. We’ve seen him in spring somewhat, not he gets his chance against MLB pitching.
As far as a legitimate 1B backup, Cuddy didn’t do too terrible a job in a handful of games. Ideally Morneau’s not going to need many days off. It’s not that strenuous a position is it?
I imagine Lamb isn’t going to backup Morneau because the 3B backup options aren’t too spectacular for the Twins. There’s a better chance of winning if they shuffle around the OF to include Kubel or Monroe while Cuddy covers 1B than to put somebody like Tolbert or Punto at 3rd.
Good Lord! Punto batting .132 now
Squeeze bunt executed by Wilson …4-2 PIT
I don’t think they could choose not to follow on written rule.
I thought I had heard that too, thanks for clearing it up. I wonder if one of the Trib writers could address that better. Or if it’s something that Kelly Theisler over at the Twins site could answer.
As far as conspiracy theories…unless Gardy has completely changed his philosophy or B Smith has made him change his philosophy there is no way Harris and Lamb survive as regular starters.
Punto will start more games than not.
Okay, that is why Monroe should NEVER start in Center.
Methinks this is exactly why Gardy put him out there today. Figure out where he can backup if need be. 
SweetOne,
I think you are making the same statement that I am.
“Punto can play 2B, 3B, SS”
“Tolbert can play everything except P,C”
Tolbert will most likely play in the infield, not the outfield. Joe’s Blog indicated that Cuddy will be the backup at 1st, not Tolbert. That reduces Tolbert to playing 2B, 3B and SS. Seems like that’s the role of Punto. To me that is a redundant role.
B Smith has made him change his philosophy there is no way Harris and Lamb survive as regular starters
Up until August, Gardy didn’t have options aside from Punto, L-Rod, and Tyner.
Smith gave him options. If Gardy doens’t use them, then Smith will take action.
But most importantly, Punto will not be a Twin in 09.
Cute, Q……..
If Gardy doesnt use Tolbert before Punto in Reg season he is crazy as HELL
It is a written rule that is rarely punished if broken and is so vague it would be hard to punish anyway.
At least one or two teams have complaints in the commisioners office for violations this year.
Punto needs a sports psychologist to shake these bad vibes…he’s a mess at the plate.
Right on, Funkytown.
Mike Wants Wins - You started a recent post by saying “For all you Punto/Gardy apologists”. The problem is that the only apologist anywhere around lately has been T. (And even he’s not an apologist - he’s just trying to call people on their excesses.) Just about everyone is ripping Punto, so I’m not sure what generated your observation.
Personally, I’ve said myself I shudder to think of Punto in the starting lineup. And he had the lowest OPS last year in the AL for guys with enough at bats to qualify for the batting title. But I agree with T that the bashing has reached illogical levels. First, if Punto’s teammates and the scouts and coaches all laud his fielding, should that not have more weight than the opinion of a blog poster? Second, if he hit like he did two years ago he’d be a valuable reserve, but if he hit like last year he’d have worth only as a pinch runner or defensive replacement. We don’t know which Punto will show up this year, and ST stats can’t tell us that. Third, asking that Gardy be fired makes no sense. I’d personally manage the team differently than he does, but does that (or the fact that YOU would manage differently) mean he should be fired? Does he not get credit for winning 4 division titles in his last 6 years? He’s obviously doing something right. That doesn’t make all his decisions right, but the net result has been excellent.
“Okay, that is why Monroe should NEVER start in Center”
Except Monroe is the only person who can backup Gomez at CF.
Rincon on, gives up leadoff double.
According to TV Valencia is in CF,Winfree in RF.
Surprising Valencia is in the OF…are the Twins giving up on all their 3B prospects? leaving 3B for Gardy JR???
The problem is that the only apologist anywhere around lately has been T. (And even he’s not an apologist - he’s just trying to call people on their excesses.)
THANK YOU!
Except Monroe is the only person who can backup Gomez at CF.
I would pencil in Young first, with Monroe being the backup LF when Delmon slides over.
A nice outing for Slowey despite the four runs. He looked great retiring the first 11 and if Monroe wouldn’t have let that ball over his head, the Pirates would likely have just one run.
Have the Twins ever cut a $2.4 million player before?
I think Lamb doesn’t back up Morneau because Gardy would rather have a lineup of Lamb-Monroe than Lamb-Tolbert/Punto. Who else can play third?
“But I agree with T that the bashing has reached illogical levels.”
You should have said “irrational” levels.
The Punto bashers ARE thinking logically. Their irrationality is the only strong response left to combat the irrationality of the Twins thinking with Punto.
MLB has Portes in CF, makes more sense than Bremer’s call of Valencia in CF..
T
I think you may be right, but until I see it over 40-50 games, I won’t believe it.
Throw the ball over the plate, catch the ball, take your chances scoring runs. That’s the Twins philosophy from TK to Gardy.
That tells me Punto starts more than not because the other two options likely won’t catch the ball well enough to play everyday.
Yeah, isn’t Valencia an IF?
Matt Tolbert isn’t a bad option with his defense….
Monroe probably isn’t the backup centerfielder. I would think that Young would slide over, and Monroe or Kubel would play left. Today, they have Kubel Monroe out there. That is not what you would see during the season, unless there be a rash of injuries in the outfield. If there were injuries, Pridie and Span are on speed-dial anyway.
No, I do NOT want to see Monroe in center as a starter, and for certain, not as a late inning replacement due to pinch-hitting.
It must be queer for the Twins squad having that Punto failure around. I wonder if they talk to him about it or anything.
And it’s the dead-red opposite of the stimulus that Gomez provides.
I thought Gardy said that it’d be Monroe in center when Gomez wasn’t out there. Also, Monroe (or Kubel I guess) would go to right whenever Morneau needs a day off.
Kubel actually looks like he has an extra bit of spring in his step today.
Looking like he lost that plow he was pulling earlier in spring training.
I guess it helps when you are trying to leg out a double.
Its terrible watching Punto hit today…
2008 gameday link
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_03_25_minmlb_pitmlb_1&mode=gameday
Me Too, when he grounded out, he looked slow… But then on that double, you’re right, it looked like he let something off.
Also, if you have the chance (I’m sure its mentioned above) for some reason the game is on FSN North. Its pretty cool because they’re switching in with the Pirates crew.
I really like Lamb at the plate. He’s a stick man.
6 good hitters in the lineup this year. If Harris goes like he did last year, it could be 7……and there’s Gomez too.
Gardy said that, but for some reason, I kinda have my doubts. It makes sense that he would want to keep Young in left for continuity reasons, but man, Monroe looked bad today. Kinda reminded me of Tyner/Ford from last year on occasion.
I know the spring record doesn’t matter, but I can’t help but want the team to be at or above the .500 mark.
In all of Gardenhire’s years, evertime the Twins have had a winning spring, they’ve had a winning record. And last year when they had a losing spring, they had a losing record.
All this superstition stuff
That play by Monroe annoyed me. I know its hard to play with the wind there, but it looked like he came in on it…
And then there was that little bloop that Punto could have gotten. They scored all of their runs on bonehead plays.
TT,
I agree, Gardy has stated the Monroe is the backup CF when Gomez isn’t out there (He is the only OF with MLB experience in CF).
I think when Cuddyer plays 1B that Young will slide over to RF and Monroe/Kubel will play LF. Definitely if it’s Kubel, could go either way with Monroe.
T: i will not mention punto again until after the first real game he starts and goes 0-4 if you agree.
Yeah, Kubel could easily play either one…
punto struck out looking
Punto K’s He looks lost as Hell at the plate.
It’s probably not what you want to hear, but Punto played 2 games (one start) in center field in 2006. I would suspect, though, that Young would move to center, if needed.
4-3 on fielder’s choice grounder by Moses, PH for Rincon.
Pirates should have gotten a DP on Harris,but not fielded cleanly by Wilson.
Punto called out on strikes for the second time today, ended the inning.
I just want to know if the Twins plan on keeping *him* all season. When is it time to finally give up?
I think this year (especially in the Dome) they will try to play Young in LF only as this is only his 2nd year and 1st with the Twins. By keeping him in LF he will only have deal with 1 odd factor of playing in the Dome (picking the ball up in the roof) instead of 2 (playing the baggie).
Young may see some time in RF on the road, but not at the Dome. At least not this year.
Punto’s first K a while back was on a perfect, strong slider that painted the outside corner.
The called 3rd strike this time however was both low and outside. Bad call by the ump.
Tolbert is out there right now
I’m really excited for Tolbert. I’d rather get rid of Punto and let him have a chance to be that main backup IF.
Romer - Much of the Punto bashing is both illogical AND irrational. It’s illogical because it ignores various facts, and focuses only on other facts. (It’s not logical to make a case by cherry picking your facts.) And it’s irrational because the ignoring of facts is willful.
And before you attack, remember that I’d prefer if Punto not start a single game all season. Also, to those talking about the Twins dropping him - there is ZERO chance of that. Whether we approve or not, Gardy loves the guy. And they’re paying him a lot of money. Of course, that actually helps the bashers since they won’t feel lost while they desperately cast about for someone else on whom to focus their illogic AND irrationality.
Why does T keep yelling at everyone to MOVE ON about Punto, then write a paragraph about Punto? T’s message board contributions mirror Punto’s contributions to the Twins offense. But instead of further explaining myself, I suggest we move on.
T: i will not mention punto again until after the first real game he starts and goes 0-4 if you agree.
That’s not counting if it’s once every 6-7 days (day game after night game relief start) or if he’s needed due to injury correct?
Because I have no problem with people upset that Punto’s getting starts ahead of Harris or Tolbert…but if gets like last August/September when Bartlett, Buscher, and Watkins were all hurt…and Casilla was turning into a head case. I’d be less supportive of complaints.
I just want to know if the Twins plan on keeping *him* all season. When is it time to finally give up?
*His* contract expires at the end of 2008. Can we all agree to just let it end and move on?
It’s probably not what you want to hear, but Punto played 2 games (one start) in center field in 2006.
Wasn’t that the “Polka Patrol” of yore? Or was that 2005? I also recall our outfield getting plauged with injuries in 06 as badly as 07 was on infielders.
How about more Manny bashing. He had to be pulled today for Crisp because he wasn’t running hard. And did you see the way he just stood in the box and watched his ball hit high off the fence for a double. jeez
2 out hits by Knott and (IF single) Portes, Tolbert ends the 8th with a grounder to third.
Devries pitching 8th for Twins I believe.
while they desperately cast about for someone else on whom to focus their illogic AND irrationality.
I’d put money on Everett.
Whatever the case, we’re learning a lot today. Monroe and Kubel are likely going to be backup LF with Young sliding to CF if Gomez needs to come out.
If Cuddyer comes out, that’ll make things more interesting. Kubel or Monroe to RF? Or slide Gomez over and we live with Monroe as the emergency CF? Gomez has shown flexibility in the outfield (played all three positions fairly well this Spring if I recall).
I’d love to build a flow chart of who plays what depending on days off. Could be rather interesting.
5-3, Pirates 3 hits off the A level pitcher.
How about more Manny bashing.
I’d much rather prefer to talk Twins. Lord knows the Sox are going to get plenty of press in the next week or so…being one of only two teams playing meaningful games at the moment.
Is Tolbert in CF
Tolbert is the Centerfielder in this game
(he actually played 9 games in the outfield in 2006 at Fort Myers)
I got it, I got it. Oops.
Dropped popup
Base hit
Rout is on..
who dropped it?
Punto K’s to end game
Punto dropped the ball
Punto is a bag of crap….He has to go. Another 0-4 day and the so called one good thing his glove failed him also. He has to have dirt on Gardenhire. I cannot wait to attend the opening series against the Angels carrying my “Free the last Piranha” Let Punto Swim signs.
Punto dropped the popup, too.
3 k’s..he’s pushing .125
Way to finish off the day Punto.
You really went along way towards positioning yourself on the team today
Whoever said that spring training doesn’t count, obviously said it before watching the game that Punto had today.
I’m starting to feel sorry for Punto he sucks so bad. 0 for 4 3k’s and a error
Punto 0-3 today, he did walk. So if .200 is the Mendoza line then whats .100…..maybe the Punto line(Ha!). I hope he turns it around, but have no faith in him at this point.
I actually feel sorry for the guy too sometimes.
Then I realize he could quit today and still be a millionaire and probably live comfortably the rest of his life.
Punto drops the routine pop-up, but instead of getting up to grab it, he lays there with his leg extended pointing up, for numerous seconds, which hinders the left fielder to grab it. A pure ‘Puntonic’ move.
Puntonic: A combination of Punto and Idiotic. I suggest that word catch on and be a universal word to describe horrible baseball acts. Kind of like the word “Munsoned” in the movie “Kingpin”.
Puntonic. Let it live!
Pleas
He bated 5 times I think 3K’s one fly out and a walk. He is a basket case at the plate.
I feel sorry for Punto. But I feel sorrier for Twins fans.
You know? I was gonna write some Punto-bashing because it’s so much fun. But it’s not fun to read. Just a downer.
So lastly, it’s ironically good the Twins started him today and that he failed pretty badly. That’ll help Gardy’s mind decide he should only be a defensive replacement and a pinch runner.
And I hope Nick Punto sees that sports psychologist. He’s a good guy who deserves more success.
So where does Mr Knott fall into the minor league system anyone have any ideas?
I think Ben D’s pretty much hit it on the head. Punto had an ugly year and it got to him hard. It’s going to be tough to chase that funk.
It’s going to be especially hard to enjoy talking Twins if it’s going to be like this all year…still.
Knott? AA unless he decides to decline and be a free agent
It’s illogical because it ignores various facts, and focuses only on other facts.
That doesn’t make it illogical. You can’t state every fact about a player in a critique of his ability. And technically, an argument is logical if it draws valid conclusions from a set of facts, where that set could just be one fact. Punto has poor fundamentals; players who have poor fundamentals should not start for the Twins; therefore, Punto should not start for the Twins. That’s logical. (Believe me, I taught logic at the U of M.)
Most of the “Punto bashing” on this site and elsewhere is warranted. He’s had one good year in his entire career. Otherwise, he’s been inconsistent, and more bad than good. Last year, he had the worst year offensively of any player in the majors with more than 200 at bats. That’s a fact, not an argument. How many chances should one guy get to start at the major league level? Last year was Punto’s third strike (with one ball).
Watching him today, I can’t help but think this is the beginning of the end for him. Actually, I think last year was the beginning of the end. But the way he’s playing, this year is the end of the road. I’ll be surprised if he’s still with the team midseason. He misplayed two balls in the field, one badly. He struck out three times (twice looking on balls down the middle) and he hit only one ball hard in five attempts. (You should have heard Dick cheer when he did.) He looks lost out there. Much the way he looked last year.
He never had a lot of talent (look at his minor league numbers–all of them if you like) and it’s difficult to see much talent in them. What he has accomplished, he’s done through sheer grit and determination. That’s admirable, to a degree. But it can’t sustain a career in the major leagues.
My sense is Matt Tolbert is better than Punto right now, and he has some upside left, whereas Punto is in serious and sharp decline. There will come a time when Gardy looks down his bench and the choice between the two will be obvious. When that happens, it will be time to use Tolbert as the utility player and call up a bench player who can actually hit.
Really sad how a player can have such a huge decline in productivity. He had the career year in 06, and pretty much has flopped since. Alot of players, when their play drops off, it is either because of age or injury. In his case it is neither. He didn’t have what I would consider an inordinate number of “lucky” hits in 06, and last year, and this year, so far, he hasn’t had an inordinate number of “unlucky” plays either. He is just striking out much more frequently, and that is probably the basis of his problems.
Man, I am not really a Punto basher, but it is really depressing seeing him out there struggling when there are other players on the roster that would probably put up better numbers given the same chance that Punto has over the last year+.
He may get out of his funk, but at this point, it isn’t looking like a funk anymore. It is looking like the “real” Punto, and what you see is what we are gonna get.
LOL now we’re feeling sorry for Punto. He’s a major league flippin baseball player, folks. He gets paid millions to play a game…my guess is he does just fine when he gets home at night.
My word, some of this stuff is hilarious.
Can we all now agree there is no room in the regular season batter’s box for this guy? That’s all I’m asking…he’s more than welcome to enjoy the good life, either on the bench, or on the town after the game….
” Punto is batting .139 (5-for-36).”
Unfortunately, he’s in mid-season form.
And by the way, folks, don’t blame the messengers here…Gardy can shut us all up by relegating Punto to L-Rod status (Roster Protection Program)…
The reason we whine is cause he continues to play…this guy got 400-plus at-bats last year!!!
sometimes a player just needs a change of teams. when things snowball into a situation that you can never get out of, fan bashing, other players lose confidence…. it’s time to move on maybe resurect his career elsewhere, without naming names.
And honestly, it’s not just Gardy…both Souhan and Joe C. have written “Pump up Punto” pieces this spring…so until everyone can come to grips with this reality, I say we continue open season–common sense has to take over at some point!
And by the way, folks, don’t blame the messengers here…Gardy can shut us all up by relegating Punto to L-Rod status (Roster Protection Program)…
And here I thought you were going to adopt Poon to take Lew’s place.
I think all the Punto bashing is completely unwarranted, the guy tries hard and that’s all you can ask of a multi-million dollar player.
Sincerely,
Troy Williamson
So much for closing my italics.
*sigh*
Punto is a good teammate. He is only doing this to take attention away from Everett while Everett works the kinks out. It’s only ST. He will hit .240-.250 during the year.
Face it Punto is to Gardy what Newmie was to TK. Both players play/ed defense and hustled with the limited talent they have/had.
I don’t really understand the need to keep both Tolbert and Punto. I would have looked to keep Pridie as Gomez’s backup.
Well as far as that goes snepp, I’m pretty sure I was the only one defending ‘ol Lew when it was open season on him a year ago….and he ended up hitting .233 with 3 HR in just over 100 ABs…
Jasons right continue the onslaught on Punto I’m sure Gardy and BS read these blogs every night and were just not aware of how everyone really feels about him or that he really is inept at playing baseball.
Re Punto: “He’s had one good year in his entire career”
not accurate. He had one almost close to average year in his career… His OPS+ was 90 in 2006
Punto look sharped at the plate again today. I think it was a wise decision to send Casilla, his .423 OBP, his prowess for stealing tons of bags, and his “hot dog” fielding to the Rochester side of ST. Anything to keep LNP “battling his tail off” at that line-up.
And, hey, Brendan Harris didn’t look drunk at the plate or in the field today. He didn’t even trip over himself while trying to steal. Huurrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh for Harris!!
The future of our middle infield looks bright.
No kidding, how must Casilla feel right about now?
Actually he(Punto) is 5 for 40 now .125! If Gardy plays him before Tolbert he needs his A** whipped. I cant believe there was a discussion on who would start at 2B.
He is just striking out much more frequently, and that is probably the basis of his problems.
2006 was the only year in his career where he did not strike out at a 20% clip, which is really bad for a utility player with no power. My sense is the career year came because he was sandwiched between a guy hitting .300 and the batting champion all year. So he just got a lot more good fastballs to hit than at any time in his career.
BC of ND, that was a great post. It made me laugh.
T: by ’scouts’ I assume you mean Twins’ scouts, because that’s not what you read about Punto when scouts have anonymity. His fielding is over-rated due to the web gems he generates. His range is not all that good.
But, frankly, I too am tired of the Punto talk. We spend about 1/2 of the time talking about a guy that will hopefully play 1 time a week. Let’s talk about Delmon Young and whether or not he can be better than last year (because he better be if the Twins are going to win much). Let’s talk about whether or not Slowey can get MLB hitters out the second time through. Let’s talk about, hmm, something else besides Punto.
I’m tellin you guys, Punto was on the stuff in 06. It gave him just enough batspeed to be average. Not every one who takes it hits 50 homers. The Mitchell report was full of boarderline guys doing what it takes to get that last contract and get their pension.
Well again, I feel the source of all this frustration is the delusion that he’s an everyday player…they should’ve nipped this thing in the butt after about two and half months last year…but Gardy couldn’t help himself…he found a way to put Punto into the lineup night after night…platooning between third, short, and second, to the point where he ended up with 472 at-bats…(and let’s not forget those embarrassing failed bunt attempts)…that was borderline criminal on Gardy’s part
Then, he adds salt to the wound by declaring there would be a spring training tryout for the 2B job…he should’ve come into this spring saying that Punto will be the highest paid utility player in baseball and Brendan Harris is your second baseman–no questions asked…
Instead, we get this “try out” rap, we get Smiling Jim Souhan with an article about how Punto is hustling to earn his staring spot–and even hopes to hit lead-off–we get another round of “Pump up Punto” from Joe C. last week when he hinted in his blog that it was up for grabs between Harris and Punto and it was “time for someone to step up”…
All along every rational Twins fan among us knew that Punto was nothing more than a late-inning replacement, yet we’re strung along to believe that he could be the answer as an everyday infielder. This is by far the worst piece of managing in the Gardenhire-era, and I am a HUGE Gardy supporter.
The time has come to flat out sit the guy…not starting next Monday, either, starting now! He doesn’t need more ST at-bats, he needs to sit.
Punto is a total disgrace. Today, he struck out three times and he’s not even a power hitter. When will Gardenhire wake up and send him to the minors. Not only that but he also dropped an easy pop up down third base line, and spiked the ball into the turf when throwing to 2nd base. How can someone so lousy make a major league ball team?
I don’t know how many folks around here look at Value Over Replacement Player “VORP”, but here are some 2007 numbers:
Everett: 236 PA, -7 VORP
L Rodriguez, 173 PA, -7.7 VORP
R White: 119PA, -8.8 VORP
Casilla, 204 PA, -10.9 VORP
C Monroe, 372 PA, -15 VORP
Punto, 536, -27 VORP (#1018 out of 1018 major league position players Monroe was #1016.)
The rule of thumb is that every 9 points of VORP costs/wins your team a game. Hopefully (but not certainly) we won’t be giving nearly as many AB well below average offensive players.
On the flip side of the coin, for what it is worth, Colorado had a huge decrease in the number of runs allowed last year over what they were expected to allow. This decline coincided with a new shortstop, Troy Tulowitzi. The acquisition of Everett is going to have a big effect on this team in terms of runs allowed, especially lefty groundball pitchers like Liriano. Too bad we don’t have any sinkerballers like Bonderman or Webb to take advantage.
Delmon should be able to improve on his average and power this year. But he may not drive in the runs. Last year he had Pena in front of him, a guy with 46 HR and 121 rbi. Now he has Morneau, who will drive in the runs in front of him. If he was in the 3 spot, I think he would have better numbers hitting in front of Morneau, but so would Cuddyer.
Hey little Twinkies players..best not run off and play by the Bay. You wouldn’t want the butcher to come out of the water with his bat and “Swings and drives one to dead center. Gomez backing up and he’s going to run out of real estate. That ball is way back there and gone. Bay puts the Pirates ahead for good in the bottom of the 9th.” ‘Rates win!
My 2 cents to the Punto fest - how about sending him to Rochester? Isn’t that the best way to get confidence back, if that’s possible? Tolbert is a good utility option, at least out of the gate, and we could bring up Pridie or Span to solve the outfield backup issue (for GoGo or Morneau days off). Seems like the Twins won’t cut Punto (yet, anyway) - but would they send him down??
There should be a rule change. If Punto plays and bats, then the opposing team must be made to have the pitcher bat. Now I know who Gardenhire really spends his time in the spas after the games.
LNP4Life, nice analogy, but I think the better spot for the Twins overall is to have Delmon in the 5 hole behind Justin. He will give him some protection so that teams will not pitch around him when Cuddy is in a funk.
I think DY will have a significant increase in his power numbers HR and 2B by hitting in the dome. He has serious gap power. Whomever is in the 6 hole (Lamb or Kubel/Monroe) should have several AB’s with runners on 2nd and 3rd.
see David, that’s wrong…I’ve been pretty pointed in my opinions re: Punto this afternoon, but no need to get childish about it.
I think Jason should take over this blog for Joe then we’ll all get the headlines we need for a great debate on Twins baseball i can see them now “Punto sucks at the plate” followed by “Punto sucks at the plate again” and then followed by. Well you get the point.
Kevin in Dallas,
The problem is since Punto is a veteran player he would first have to clear waivers to be sent down and second Punto has to accept the assignment. If he refuses the assignment he becomes a free agent.
Even if he accepts the assignment he will still be paid as if on the Twins’ Roster.
I`m sure it`s been said by now, but why Gardenhire insists upon getting Punto at bats is beyond me.
What has Punto had, 25-30 AB? That doesn’t mean anything. He is trying too hard to win the job. Harris will start the season at 2nd, and once Nick relaxes, he will be fine. Nick will eventually take over 2B like he took over 3B from Batista in 2006. Harris is Batista.
I want Delmon in the 5 hole too, to help Morneau, but especially Cuddyer, a fastball hitter.
i talked to gardy saturday and he said tolbert wasn’t even a thought until last week when this blog had a tolbert for president couple days. gardy changed his mind knowing that the bloggers here know everything.
he said there still are the pictures however.
imo casilla is the ss next yr after a yr of aaa seasoning.
hey gobbledygook, next time you see Gardy will you ask him if we can expect any Nick Punto pirhana commercials this year?
LNP4Life…quick hint, might want to read your posts before you post them to avoid potential Freudian slips.
Anyway, ok, I’ll talk about the lineup…I’m excited guys, I like what we have up and down this lineup…Delmon is definitely the key to the whole deal in terms of providing that spark and making us forget about Hunter’s bat…the starting pitching is a giant question mark but the Bully has to be one of the best in baseball….
There are reasons to be optimistic here.
looking at gardy today on the bench i think he needs to do a nutra system commercial! he could shed a few #’s. looks like he gained what buffet lost.
Crap. Everett has the flu.
I can’t help it, I want Delmon, baby
SweetOne,
So if the Twins send Punto down, and he refuses, he becomes a free agent? Then they don’t have to pay his remaining salary? That would probably be the best option.
T-
Every atbat Punto gets whether it’s due to a day off, a slump, an injury, or the death of every other person on the planet… is a cause to rip Punto, or Gardy.
The man steals atbats from real major league ball players, and future hopeful major league ball players.
Gardy wants to get him as many atbats as possible doesn’t make any sense any time of the year. Punto with a bat in his hands is a sin against baseball. It’s just that bad dude. Sorry. The man shouldn’t be allowed to even hold a baseball bat after last season, and the idea of giving him atbats in meaningless games when we could have called up Pouffle or someone else to play in the game and give him more of a taste of the future is what should have been done.
Punto is nothing more than Al Newman without charisma, or the common sense to know how to run to first base, or bunt a baseball.
I’m still not convinced Punto would start on a Town team anywhere in Minnesota.
Only if someone picks him up…what do you think the odds someone wants a 2.4 million dollar utility player?
Any chance we drop Punto and pick up Ruben Gotay who was released by the Mets? I thought I remembered his name discussed in the Johann sweepstakes.
Who cares if Punto bats lead off today?
Spring doesn’t matter especially at this point. We should just be happy that we have a good hitter to play second.
P.S. All you people who say Harris shouldn’t start and Tolbert or Cassila should because Harris’s D is suspect….
Harris played shortstop for a major league team I think he’ll be fine at second.
Poor Gardy. Last season when Castillo was traded, he reportedly sat in his office, staring at the ceiling in disbelief.
Now he has Brendan Harris starting the season at 2B. What a dramatic drop-off in talent, going from from Luis Castillo to Brendan Harris. Time for some more ceiling staring, Gardy.
Hey, have you heard Punto’s radio commercial for the jeweller? At the end he says “Tell them ‘Nick Punto drove you in.’” What a clever line for the RBI machine that is Nick Punto.
Punto, as noted some time ago, was successful in part due to having the opp to hit in front of Mauer.
You can liken Punto’s 2006 success to Lew Ford’s early success. New guy on the scene that eventually got figured out,and never has adjusted to the way he is pitched.
Hey Jason, its Gardenhire who always says that he sits in the spa after games and now we know who he sits in the spa with.
Do you all know what’s missing from the Punto issue in all of these discussions?
The fact that Gardy has been overlooking Punto’s shortcomings and continuously chooses to have him in the team over more appropriate choices (Pridie, Ruiz, Casilla, etc etc) It is about time that Gardenhire becomes accountable for the choices he makes as a manager. I think that if the Twins have a loosing season this year Gardy should be out…
I think Punto has a Bobblehead night this year. Gardy is being forced to keep him on the roster until then.
JP, every night is a bobblehead night for Punto… have you seen him on the plate lately?
Punto is the all purpose guy on the team. He makes slushies for Mourneau and he services Gardenhire after the game.
Good one. I wasn’t kidding, though. About a week ago they had a guy from the Twins talking about promotions during one of the games. Gardy and Bert were two of the others, and I think Delmon.
Overall, this might be the worst fielding, opening day infield, in the history of the franchise.
David, keep your homophobia to yourself.
Trade him to the Cubbies as the player to be named later for Monroe? eat 1.2?
JP, it appears that you are the one with the homophobia problem since I didn’t say any such thing. Apparently, you must have that on your mind.
No telling how many runs the opposing team might score with this infield.
Plus, Lamb, Harris, Everett, Gomez, and Young. are new to the Metrodome.
The Twins might give up 1,000 runs this season. It’s not impossible. They will only score about 750. Doesn’t look good.
Inexperienced pitching and gaping holes in the fielding. Bad combination. Real bad combination.
I erred. The 2008 Bobblehead nights are for Gardenhire, Dan Gladden, Delmon Young, and Rick Aguillera. Molitor and Jack Morris have bronze statue nights.
Within 2 weeks, people on this blog will be begging Gardy to get Punto back out there.
Craig, you made a good point about Punto trying too hard. He is the type that doesn’t do well under that kind of pressure. I think his continuing failure at the plate will hurt his fielding too. We’ve already seen it. Last year he seemed to improve hitting-wise after the team was clearly out of it and the season was no longer riding on whether he got a hit or not.
I am happy for Lamb and Harris. They have starting jobs on, arguably, a major league team. They have come a long way, for a couple of guys with very little talent.
JP,
Yes that’s how it was in 2007, he was just like Kubel. The difference is, that in 2006, Punto hit while in a pennant race, unlike Kubel.
If either of them hit around .280 this team will be very competitive. Morneau is the key though. I still do not understand how he ended up with over 100 RBIs last year. He never seemed to get one when it could have won the game.
But in 2006, Punto was on a roll and didn’t have a confidence issue. Like Bartlett. Suddenly he was up from AAA, the starting shortstop, no days off - never had time to get nervous. When you are in a slump in a pennant race, and you know it is hurting the team, that is another kind of pressure, eh?
I don’t worry about Morneau’s spring training. Killebrew used to have awful spring training stats, and the go on a tear when the season started.
More worrisome about Morneau, is the sudden drop-off in production last year in the 2nd half. I’m really concerned that teams have learned how to pitch him, and he may not be making adjustments.
JP,
It’s kind of funny how we all argue about the attributes, or lack thereof, of players like Lamb, Harris, Punto and others. None of these guys are very good ballplayers, by major league standards.
I should say positive attributes, or lack thereof.
My choice would be to to have Tolbert at 2B and Casilla at SS sometime during the season. A player like Everett or even Punto could be attractive to another team around the time of the trade deadline. Only about half their salary would be still owed at that point.
Some of the Punto-bashing is funny. Most everybody is taking spring training far too seriously. Now, Punto had a horrible year last year and didn’t show anything in the spring….sounds just like Carlos Silva, who had a horrible year in ‘06 and showed less than Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson in the spring (that’s not easy to do). If Punto could be reasonably successful during the season, as Silva was, that would be great.
Gardenhire had few good options instead of Punto last year. That again may be the case, but at least they are new options. Punto has more to offer than L-Rod did, he is a good fielder and has good speed.
Monroe is basically an emergency center fielder. He wasn’t good out there when he was younger, why would he be good when he’s over 30?
Is Tolbert a better defensive CF than Monroe? Any chance he could get starts there when GoGo needs a day off?
So our favorite Twin, LNP, is due to receive $2.4 million this season. What if we started a campaign to try and raise the $2.4 million to give to the Twins organization to set him free. What are peoples thoughts on how close we could really get.
I’m really concerned that teams have learned how to pitch him, and he may not be making adjustments.
Give him a chance this year. If teams just started to figure him out in the second half of 07 he’ll need maybe a month to figure out their new approach.
We could set up collection stations at the gates with a big marketing campaign:
Save the last of the Piranhas: Free Nicky
Yes Jerry, we read it before. Very clever.
How to pitch Punto?
Pitch him down the middle and bunch the defense in front of the mound.
Hey, to anyone that watched the game today, did Punto dive head-first into first when he walked this afternoon???
Punto has got to give every little leaguer in Minnesota hopes of making it to the majors some day. Punto has figured it out. 1. Be able to make slushies for the star on the team. 2. Be the manager’s pet and gopher and service the manager when asked.
This is just wrong. Gardy has lost it.
The following is from MLB Twins Beat Reporter Kelly Thesier’s latest article on Harris being named the 2B.
Gardenhire said he definitely plans on using Punto as a defensive replacement late in games, and that in addition to some time at second base, Punto will also be shifted to other spots around the infield — including third base and shortstop.
“Believe me, he’ll get used quite a bit,” Gardenhire said. “I like to see him out on the field.”
I give Twins management all the credit in the world for getting the most out of there players but when a player just does not have it why must they be kept around forever (Al Newman, Denny Hocking and now Nick Punto).
Give him a chance this year. If teams just started to figure him out in the second half of 07 he’ll need maybe a month to figure out their new approach.
Here are his numbers by month in 2007.
April: .220/.298/.317
May: .253/.364/.275
June: .150/.253/.213
July: .218/.271/.295
August: .127/.207/.155
September: 286/.320/.371
If by “second half”, you mean “September” I’ll grant you he hit better in the second half. But most people include August in the second half, and the fact that he put up those numbers as an everyday third baseman for any given month, and Gardenhire let him do it by giving him 82 PAs, is just embarrassing. He struck out 25% of the time in August while displaying an ISOP of .028. That could very well be the worst hitting line for a single month by a starting third baseman in history.
The thing is, it’s not just his numbers. I’ve watched this hoser for four years in almost every game. And I can tell you, he is not likely to get any better. He might have a good month once in a while. But he’ll have as many months where he’ll embarrass the organization.
It all comes down to fundamentals. If you watch him swing, you see a long looping swing where he actually closes his eyes like a little leaguer. He also has the annoying habit of transferring his weight before the pitch comes to the plate. So even if he does make contact with the pitch, he typically pops it up.
It’s really a mystery to me how a system that prides itself on fundamentals lets this guy slide. His hitting stroke is worse than most guys in rookie ball, and it has not improved. He pops more bunts foul or in the air than he gets on the ground. His footwork in the field is often a confused jumble that people ignore because of hustle. He throws off the wrong foot most of the time. He is poor at reading pitchers on the base pads. He often runs into outs (he ran into an out today). He dives for everything, like he did on that grounder up the middle today that he could have had in his back pocket if he had ran to it instead of diving. Instead, it just missed his head by a foot and his glove by three feet. And he dives into first when it’s a proven fact that he would get there faster by running. Todd Walker had better fundamentals than this guy, and he could actually hit.
He was talking about Morneau, not Punto. More Punto bashing is always fun though.
Craig has a point–the defense could be a real problem this year. Everett was a great fielder, but he broke his leg last year and is on the wrong side of 30, Gomez has great speed and a fine arm, but is green as grass in center, Cuddyer is an average right fielder with a fine arm. Young is playing a new position, and wasn’t a very good outfielder last year, although he also has a great arm. Lamb and Harris are considered below-average fielders.
Meanwhile the pitching could be all right, or it could be a disaster.
Oh, sorry. Morneau is a streak hitter. When he’s hot, he’s as good a hitter as there is in the game. When he’s not, he hits like Mientkievicz. I think he just tries too hard sometimes. He needs to relax a little bit, and he’ll be fine. I do think he’ll do better with good hitters behind him. It’s tough to hit fifth when 7-9 consists of Rondell White, Jason Tyner and ick Punto.
Ithink we should cut Punto and replace him with Romer.You hate to bad mouth him but it’s so much fun.Kind of sick in my book!You need a psychologist but not a sport type.A sports psychologist would tell you it’s not in your head,just your talent level.
The scary thing is the question of what happens when the Twins figure out just how bad Lamb is in the field at 3b. The Twins took two months to figure out that Batista couldn’t play third, and Lamb is worse. OK, his range is a little better, but at least Tony could find the first baseman with his throws. Lamb’s scatter arm will cost the Twins a lot more runs than his bat will produce, a characteristic that was hidden by his part-time status at Houston. Lamb is a bad answer at 3rd. He will have to hit really well to keep a positive VORP, and I don’t think he can.
What I am afraid of is how the Twins will react when they take action to upgrade the fielding at 3rd. The last time this happened they put in Punto, who fielded averagely and actually hit fairly well. Will 2008 be 2006 redux without the hitting? Hopefully it will be Tolbert who gets the call instead of LNP, and I hope that Matt will respond now as well as Nick did then.
No. It will not. If Lamb struggles, they will either call somebody up or use Tolbert (if he’s a #Bman)
I give Twins management all the credit in the world for getting the most out of there players but when a player just does not have it why must they be kept around forever
“Late-inning defensive replacement” is 8th/9th inning. You know, late in the game. Odds are he’d only get one at bat. Even the Yankees and Boston would occaisionally put Dougie at first late in games.
That could very well be the worst hitting line for a single month by a starting third baseman in history.
Thanks for the research, but I was talking about Morneau. As was Craig. And the discussion was Morneau’s struggles in the second half, not Punto’s struggles all season.
My choice would be to to have Tolbert at 2B and Casilla at SS sometime during the season.
I honestly think that’s the Twins plans as well. (Maybe not those players, but those positions getting younger later in the season). Lamb, Everett, and to a lesser extent Monroe, were brought in to keep the spots on the roster warm while the young guys like Casilla and Tolbert got some of the edges worn off. Heck, Gomez is also going to be a bit rough this season.
They might not be the best backup plans, but the idea is that if they’re rebuilding, they don’t need to spend a ton of money and get amazing players to serve as backup plans and placeholders.
It is interesting that the Twins appear to be changing philosophies somewhat on offense versus defense. Statistics show that a good hitter will typically score more runs than a good fielder will prevent, if it’s an either/or proposition. Let’s say Lamb has 50 more hits than Punto did last year. This is conservative–Lamb had nearly as many hits in 200 fewer plate appearances than Punto last year. He could have 25 errors and still be on the plus side. I think the Batsista comparisons are overblown. Batista made fewer errors because he didn’t get to any balls hit in his zone. At least Lamb will cover his zone adequately.
I would be more concerned about Harris, because he will have more balls hit into his zone than Lamb, and he does not cover his zone very well at all. It’s been a long time since the Twins tried someone with a good bat and a questionable glove aver at second. Todd Walker is the last guy I remember.
Batista made fewer errors because he didn’t get to any balls hit in his zone.
It’s also a poor comparison because I don’t believe Batista could hit either.
I’m not too worried about Harris. I honestly think Twins fans have been spoiled by some pretty amazing defense for a while. To the point that a few booted balls seems like a disaster by comparison.
Hopefully getting the nod to start will help him get his head in the game. I imagine some players respond well to competition (the three CF candidates) and others may get nervous (Harris)
I should add that I include myself as one of “those fans”.
Because I’m sure I’ll have a few moments this year when I watch Gomez and think “Torii would’ve had that.”
I did it early in Morneau’s career, after Doug was traded.
