Everett, Redmond return to lineup for series finale
Posted on April 13th, 2008 – 10:38 AMBy Joe Christensen
KANSAS CITY, MO. — Adam Everett returns to shortstop, and Mike Redmond replaces Joe Mauer at catcher, as the Twins go for a sweep today against the Royals.
UPDATE: Have I mentioned, it’s cold. This was supposed to be the warm day here. The forecast called for 50 degrees at one point. The game-time temp was 37, and with a 10-mph wind from the north, it was 29 with the wind chill. That makes it the coldest day here yet. Wind chill was 31 on Friday and 33 on Saturday.
TWINS
1. Carlos Gomez, CF
2. Brendan Harris, 2B
3. Jason Kubel, DH
4. Justin Morneau, 1B
5. Delmon Young, LF
6. Mike Lamb, 3B
7. Mike Redmond, C
8. Denard Span, RF
9. Adam Everett, SS
Starting pitcher: LH Francisco Liriano
Royals
1. Joey Gathright, CF
2. Esteban German, 2B
3. Mark Teahen, LF
4. Billy Butler, 1B
5. Jose Guillen, RF
6. Alex Gordon, 3B
7. Miguel Olivo, DH
8. John Buck, C
9. Tony Pena Jr., SS
Starting pitcher: RH Brian Bannister
Kauffman Stadium. First pitch: 1:10 p.m.
292 Responses to "Everett, Redmond return to lineup for series finale"
Kubes in the 3 hole!!
I like it.
My prediction is that Bannister is going to be tough today, if we can get 5 innings from Francisco with less than 2 runs we have a chance.
My call for offensive hero today: Mike Lamb. 2-4 with a couple RBI. Twins win 4-3.
Switch Kubel and Span.
Craig, stick to the “new and improved.” You were actually making some sense here and there…
OBP .400 - AVG .308 - Span
OBP .278 - AVG .265 - Kubel
Span has carried his good hitting through spring training and AAA, and into the majors. He’s a better choice for the #3 spot than Kubel.
I like Kubel 3rd…not necessarily permanently, but I still think he has potential. Maybe votes of confidence like this are what he needs…
Craig-
We’re not looking for OBP in the 3 spot… That is supposed to be a guy who can produce runs.
Span is in a great spot in the lineup.
One more dinger from Kubel in the next game or so and they may want to move Morneau to #5 for a pressure break!
Again no Monroe. Huh. When Cuddyer comes back I guess they will send Span back down even though Span now plays more than Monroe.
The OBP guy (Span) belongs in front of Morneau, not in front of Everett.
I don’t know how many conclusions about a guy’s OBP should be drawn from 13 at bats. Does anyone really think Tolbert can maintain his .520 OBP while Mauer remains at .279? It seems way too early to site stats from the season.
Anyone catch Dustin Martin’s stats so far this year in AA?
6 Games
13-21 (.619)
5 Doubles
8 RBI
Dang, that is being on a tear.
I still think the Castillo trade was a mistake, as it was unpopluar with the players and he would have been a Type B FA, so we would have gotten a sandwich pick for him (probably high 30s- low 40s). However, Martin is the guy that can change my mind. He may only pan out to be a 4th OF, but I think there is a chance this guys has a major league career.
Hopefully a day off will get Mauer straightened out. He’s been late on fastballs and is pulling everything to second base when he puts it in play. Good hitter to come off the bench today.
Everett better produce a little or Tolbert could be in there more on a regular basis. I like Kubel in the 3-hole for now when Mauer isn’t playing and Cuddyer on the DL. Bannister will be tough. Saw him beat us last September at the Dome. It looks like
Monroe will get most of his playing time against lefties.
“I don’t know how many conclusions about a guy’s OBP should be drawn from 13 at bats. Does anyone really think Tolbert can maintain his .520 OBP while Mauer remains at .279? It seems way too early to site stats from the season.”
Correct, but the indicators are there by the type of AB’s Span and Kubel are taking, that Span is the superior OBP guy.
Silva is 2 and 0 after beating the Angels last night and he plunked Torii. So Hunter’s been hit twice this year, both my former teammates..hmmmm??(LOL)
Career Minor League stats:
Span OBP/OPS: .350/.698
Kubel OBP/OPS: .385/.884
I agree, put the OBP guy in the three hole. Put Span at 9, so he is the “second leadoff”, and let everett kill the lineup at the 8 spot. Frankly, the top of the lineup has to produce today, because the bottom probably won’t.
RyanW
The Castillo trade was not a mistake. Terry Ryan got permission to go over budget in hopes of winning it all in 2007. When the trade deadline rolled around and it was looking like that wasn’t going to happen, he dumped salary. TR stuck to his part of the agreement which was a good thing should the GM want to make the same deal with ownership in the future.
Is this the first time in Kubel’s MLB career he’s gotten to bat 3rd for the Twins?
I think this is a wonderful sign that Gardy’s got confidence in him finally.
“the indicators are there by the type of AB’s Span and Kubel are taking, that Span is the superior OBP guy.”
Fair enough. Although I’d say simply switching them isn’t the best solution as Kubel has been one of only two player in the lineup this year with any power. Kubel 6th would be OK, but sending him all the way down to 8th would be too far. Regardless, it’ll be interesting to see how he does handle hitting third, since Gardy has shied from giving him too much responsibility for pretty much his entire career.
I still don’t buy into putting a guy with a high obp in the #3 hole… The idea is to get the #1 and #2 batters on base and let the 3 and 4 guys drive him in… This is precisely why people wanted Mauer to be #2 instead of #3 this year. He gets on base but since he doesn’t hit the ball out of the park he shouldn’t be #3
BC Beneke: Kubel has hit third a few times before. I’m a little superstious.
Liriano was injured on September 13th and his first game back, exactly 19 months later, is April 13th. I hope he sits next to Jerry White most of the day. (ha ha)
Snolls,
Kubel has had a very difficult time transitioning to being able to hit major league pitching. Gardy has done a real nice job with him since he has come up. He tries to put him in situations where he is likely to succeed. Unfortunately, success hasn’t happened very often for Kubel.
Span on the other hand, looks like a player who really has matured. His approach is excellent, and he looks like a major league hitter.
I also don’t understand why people think Kubel hasn’t succeeded at all. His season last year was actually fairly successful, especially the second half of it. The guy was a big hitting prospect until he lost an entire year with a leg injury, which would set anyone’s development back.
Craig,
Don’t be a fool. Span has unexpectedly impressed, but he’s nowhere near the hitter that Kubel is. And you can’t draw conclusions from 13 plate appearences. So just stop.
Kubel could be a late bloomer, like Cuddyer. You never know. Kubel still has an awful time with the straight change, and he also still looks silly at times, versus left handed pitching.
Did Monroe refuse to do what Punto does for Gardy to get in the game? Eventually Monroe’s pride will go and he will end up with his bathroom caulk if he wants at bats.
I am so excited to watch Liriano throw today. This is a huge start for this club. If he comes out and dominates he will ignite this club.
We’re all excited to watch Liriano, but I’m not expecting too much. I’m more concerned about our offense against this kid Bannister. 2-0, 2.05 ERA against us last year and he’s third in MLB in wins since June of last season.
Are we really talking about Jason Kubel? The guy has had like 2 good games in 3 years? How he is still on this roster is almost an embarrassment! It just goes to show how much of a AAA farm team we are to the rest of the majors! He is flat out terrible. Almost a Troy Williamson bust-like player. All the hype and 2 good games to show it.
Bannister is a stud…I am not expecting much offensively today. I am just hoping that Liriano can do the same. Not the end of the world if he struggles, but if he dominates it will give this team a huge boost.
Souhan, after watching him in batting practice, alludes to the fact, today, that Delmon Young is a line drive doubles hitter, and not a HR hitter. Glad to see someone is paying attention.
I’m just hoping for a good game from Go-Go. He needs to get back on track after a tough outing yesterday.
Aaron K, Joe Vavra is our hitting instructor I never expect this team to score more than 3 runs.
Bill Smith coming up at 12:06, on AM 1500.
Craig, is it a bad thing to be a line drive doubles hitter? I mean at 21 years old in his rookie season he managed to hit .288 with 13 hrs. Do you have a problem with that kind of production?
Personally, I think he will grow to a 25-35 hr guy. He has the bat speed and strength, with time he will get there. Even if he doesn’t and he is a .300 hitter with lots of gap hits I still won’t be disappointed.
The days of 70 hrs are going away, imo.
“Craig, is it a bad thing to be a line drive doubles hitter? I mean at 21 years old in his rookie season he managed to hit .288 with 13 hrs. Do you have a problem with that kind of production?”
Aaron,
Absolutely not a bad thing at all. Delmon has a beautiful swing and real quick hands. All he needs to do is learn a little patience, and that will come with experience. As long as he doesn’t start trying to lift the ball and hit HR, he will be just fine. I like Delmon Young’s baseball skills a lot. He is going to be an excellent player, but not a HR hitter.
I agree, I think Delmon will be more of an average and gap type hitter than one for power. I’d say an average year will be between 15-20 HR.
While Span is probably a better OBP guy than Kubel (the 13 at bats notwithstanding), that does not really qualify him as a number 3 hitter, since that is a slot that requires some power. The person with the highest OBP should hit leadoff. I look forward to seeing how Kubel hits in that spot. I would like to see Span as a leadoff hitter and Gomez as a number two guy against the righthanded pitcher, though.
Young will develop some home run power. At least, that’s what the scouts all say. He actually reminds me a lot of Kirby Puckett, in that he is a 5-tool outfielder who swings at every pitch, no matter how terrible it is. The good news is they both managed to hit a lot of those pitches. I predict that, like Puckett, Young will develop 25-30 home run power.
I’m looking forward to watching Delmon go the other way and hit them off and over the baggie for years to come….oh wait a minute. And, how come to the Twins didn’t recall Mike Smith for today’s start against the Royals like they did on a Sunday a couple of years ago? (LOL)
The idea of even playing Span is ludichrist, someone other than CRAIG thinking that he belongs in the 3 spot is freaking insane.
Span is doing better than I expected, but you can ask anyone especially Craig… I will always refer to Span as FLUSH.
LOL…yeah, let’s fill the three hole with a guy who OPSed under 700 through 6 minor league seasons. I mean, those 13 at bats are enough to make anyone overlook 6 years of poor play, right?
“When the trade deadline rolled around and it was looking like that wasn’t going to happen, he dumped salary. TR stuck to his part of the agreement which was a good thing should the GM want to make the same deal with ownership in the future.”
Samm- going by that rational, wouldn’t it have made more sense to trade Hunter at the deadline? He was making more than 3 times the money Castillo was and we could have recieved much more young talent in return. Or Silva?
In fact we were like 7 games out at the deadline, closer than we were in 06, when we came back to win the division. Saying we were out of it so it was a salary dump is a bit revisionist.
Besides, salary dump or not- you could still argue that paying him 2 mil, having him play the rest of the season, and getting a sandwich pick as compensation when he walked would be better than reciving a future bullpen catcher and A ball low level prospect while upseting the core players on your team (see comments by Nathan, Santana and Hunter). Again, I am open to Martin changing my mind on this.
“In fact we were like 7 games out at the deadline, closer than we were in 06, when we came back to win the division”
RyanW,
In ‘06 we were X games out and hotter than hell. In ‘07, we were X games out and staggering.
Not the same.
Sportsguy, with your comments on Kubel, I can honestly state you have “NO Clue” when it comes to understanding the great game of baseball.
RyanW,
Also, if TR knew beforehand that the core players were going to react as they did, he may not have dumped Castillo. I know I didn’t expect that reaction.
Also, I read somewhere that the Castillo dump was supposed to be the forerunner of a deal for a 3B. That deal fell through when the Twins went into the tank.
“Span is ludichrist,”
BC,
Is this sort of like the Antichrist, only different?
Sportsguy,
Did you give yourself that name?
or was it your boyfriend?
Craig,
Yeah, Except the Antichrist is something we fear. Span is something that forgot to be flushed.
“Also, I read somewhere that the Castillo dump was supposed to be the forerunner of a deal for a 3B. That deal fell through when the Twins went into the tank.”
sane,
I think that you are right. It’s pure speculation, but I think the frugal Pohlads wanted salary dumped before any more could be added. Unfortunately for Terry, the trade deadline passed before he could turn a second deal.
Is this the first time in Kubel’s MLB career he’s gotten to bat 3rd for the Twins?
Nope. Kubel is a career 2-for-7 with a walk, a double, and four strikeouts as the Twins #3 hitter. He has just one other start in the 3-spot in his career, though: last Sept. 12th, also against the Royals in KC, in a 6-3 Twins loss.
Gardy likes to go with the hot hand, so it doesn’t surprise me that Kubel’s hitting third with Mauer out today. If Kubel starts to cool down, though, I’d expect him to be back down in the 6-7 spots.
I still think the Castillo trade was a mistake, as it was unpopluar with the players
No. Just Hunter. And Hunter was begging for excuses to leave. Nathan, Cuddy and Morneau all seemed to be just fine with the team (they did agree to long term contracts)
Aaron K, Joe Vavra is our hitting instructor I never expect this team to score more than 3 runs.
And yet they do. 5 times in fact. Two of which were losses. (5-4 and 7-4)
T,
“No. Just Hunter.”
Make that Santana and Hunter.
Santana was livid.
Most of the angry quotes came from him.
“And Hunter was begging for excuses to leave.”
Getting offered twice the money, is the only excuse Torii needs.
I have to agree with Craig here….Torii got a significantly better offer to leave. He handled himself great with the Twins and the Twins have no beef with him. So why should us fans.
Everett again? And Tolbert, who is batting .455, again sits on the bench. Brilliant move, Gardy.
Interesting, that the Angel’s GM ( I don’t recall his name) said Torii’s only question for him, was whether he would spend the money to bring in help, should the team need it during the year. The GM answered “You know I will”.
Torii already knew the answer with the Twins: “You know we won’t”.
Okay, with this game on my29, here’s a question.
Which will there be more of? Combined BB/H by the two starting pitchers or commericials for Flavor Flav’s Under One Roof?
I can’t believe I just read an argument for Span to hit in the 3-hole. Please let’s not look at a three game MLB sample size. Look at his minor league track record.
It’s good to see Mauer on the bench today. O-for the series has earned him a day off. And Gardy resisted for the second time this year putting Redmond in Mauer’s spot in the lineup.
That, my friends, is progress!
The Twins team salary is about 16-18 mil less than last season. Is that difference to pay for land and infrastructure cost overruns, relating the new stadium?
The stadium itself will end up costing more than expected. Maybe another 16 mil will be trimmed from next years player salaries.
Who cares whose at short, I can’t believe no ones talking about who is toeing the rubber… I can’t wait to see 90 mph sliders again!
No Craig, this years salary is lower just because of the way things worked out. They have invested in the future and signed longer term deals. They have setup to spend more in teh future. You can be as negative as you want, but no use wasting 16 million just to say you have spent as much money.
Hopefully Go-Go is in the batting cage every day working on his bunting. That was ugly.
Better PH for Gomez next time!
Nice work by Morneau hitting that pitch the opposite way. Nice to get Liriano a lead to start off!
Can we get a shortstop who can throw the ball with some authority
“No Craig, this years salary is lower just because of the way things worked out. They have invested in the future and signed longer term deals. They have setup to spend more in teh future. You can be as negative as you want, but no use wasting 16 million just to say you have spent as much money.”
Aaron,
Okay. I hope you are right. I am really just skeptical of the Pohlads, more than I am negative.
Smith may also just be keeping the team salary under the budget, so he has some money to work with, in order to bring in some reinforcements later in the season, just in case the team remains competitive.
whoa, that breaking ball looked pretty nasty.
Liriano looked pretty good there! They got a run, but only 1 ball was really hit.
“Can we get a shortstop who can throw the ball with some authority”
Tolbert can throw the ball with some authority.
Boy that was impressive Span.
I am really just skeptical of the Pohlads, more than I am negative.
Nathan, Cuddy, and Morneau have been signed to long term contracts.
So remind me why we’re skeptical?
If Everett doesn’t regain significant arm strength, he may have to learn to play 2B as a backup.
KC has a shortsop! But I got no time for the 1 for 29 hitting. Everett has hit some homers. Can’t give up on him yet.
Those 2 runs are all Vavra’s fault!
Royals better toss the turtlenecks! It’d be easier to duck those Liriano high inside ones!
The signing bonuses for Morneau, Nathan and Cuddy take up most of the difference between this years payroll and last years. Smith may have a little to work with at the deadline but not much.
Vulvra can’t play short, right and second base. Take it easy on the lad.
“Nathan, Cuddy, and Morneau have been signed to long term contracts.
So remind me why we’re skeptical?”
2007 Team salary: 72 mil
2008 Team salary: 56 mil
There is a book to be written about why to be skeptical of the Pohlads. Have you conveniently forgotten about the Carl Pohlad’s devious plot to contract the team, take the cash payoff from MLB, and leave the state without a team?
I remember when the bunt was used to surprise the opponent. That is kind of lost when we try 4-5 per game.
Smith may have a little to work with at the deadline but not much.
The trade deadline is less about salary space and more about what the Twins would have to offer another team.
I would sure like to see Gomez bunt a little less. He has actually swung that bat pretty well.
Bannister was an infielder in college. USC I think. Must be why he’s making all the plays. They switched him in the minors. His dad pitched for Seattle or somebody, aw who cares.
Perhaps I’m forgetting the history, Craig, but I always thought that contraction was Selig’s brainchild and that Pohlad was simply a willing participant considering he wasn’t getting a new stadium at the time.
2007 Team salary: 72 mil
2008 Team salary: 56 mil
And as somebody already pointed out, you’ve conveniently forgotten that some of the bigger contracts for the Twins (Santana, Hunter, Silva) are off the books now.
The Twins aren’t going to go out and buy an expensive veteran in a rebuilding year. The idea is to figure out what they have inhouse and go from there in the offseason.
Gomez likes to bunt at least once a game I guess. Usually to lead off the game. (obviously) Prolly moves the third basemen in and could set up a screamer down the line. At least that’s the plan.
PJS,
Your recollection is correct.
Geez, do Dick and Bert know the difference between a change-up and slider? Even Bert is having trouble telling the difference.
Bannister is Floyd Bannister’s kid? Wow, I’m getting old. I remember him pitching for the ChiSox back in the day.
I need a stocking hat. Winter clothing should be half off somewhere.
Go figure. The sun finally shows up and then blinds a guy.
Stars signed: Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Nathan.
Stars dumped: Castillo, Silva, Hunter, Santana.
I see an obvious pattern, but last time I commented on the obvious, it pissed off a lot of angry white guys, so I won’t say anymore.
Baseball Gods finally looking down on Kubel…he has had his share of tough luck outs this eyar…now he gets a freebie
That was ruled a hit because that KC shorstop has some range! Don’t think our shorstops would have made the play. Bert, you dunno nuttin’.
Ummmm, Cuddyer is NOT a star. He is a slightly above average player. Please don’t use the term “star” with his name.
Craig, I see a pattern as well, but it is different from your pattern, evidently. Attitude is Everything adn Everything is Perception. See, the group above is young and the future and the group below is older, more expensive, and moving towards the end of their careers. Don’t forget to mention we brought in young, non white, future stars in Gomez and Young.
CRAIG:
It pissed me off when you included Silva and Castillo with stars like Hunter and Santana!
Shape up!
Young not looking like a future star so far…
Stars dumped: Castillo, Silva, Hunter, Santana.
Castillo: Aging veteran. Was borderline elligible for B-Type agent. Bad idea for a team that needing to go young.
Silva: Middle of the rotation guy. Inconsistent. Overpayed by Mariners. Hernandez will alerady proving he’s a less expensive version of the same thing.
Hunter: Complained all year he wanted a long term contract. Then turned down three 5-year contracts from teams he had been saying he’d love to play for to go to a fourth that he didn’t even think of going to until they gave him $15m more.
Santana: I don’t remember the final deal he turned down prior to the trade, but this is the only one where it was Smith doing his best to get something for Santana before he left at the end of 08.
Don’t forget to mention we brought in young, non white, future stars in Gomez and Young.
Not to mention we dealt two young, white, future stars to get Young.
But as I’ve learned, facts have no place when it comes to discussing Pohlad with some people.
The Royals have decided they can hit Liriano’s fastball. They are taking his changeup and slider and sitting on the fastball.
89-90 mph fastballs are BP for these guys.
JP, Liriano seems ot be having overall control problems.
“No, just Hunter…Nathan, Cuddy and Morneau all seemed to be just fine with the team”
From the trib
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/11699841.html
“This is one of the obvious ones that’s not a positive,” [Joe] Nathan said. “You know, I don’t think there’s one guy in this clubhouse that looks at the move as something that helped our team.”
I think it is fair to say Nathan was unhappy with the deal.
But lets be done with the argument, my real point was the sandwich pick would have been better than Butera/Martin. But Martin might prove me wrong.
former star - Liriano
Please don’t use the term “star” with his name.
Same could be said with Silva and Castillo.
Liriano looks pretty solid for his first start in cold weather. The Royals have really worked hard to get those runs in. Royals have executed.
I am not making any further comments about the Twins, disturbing racial policies. The New and Improved Craig, will leave that to someone else.
Thanks for the link Ryan. My understanding was that Castillo’s status as a free agent wasn’t a guarantee.
Castillo already is having knee issues in NY this season, even after getting them cleaned out.
RYAN:
A quote from your link:
“Twins say they aren’t giving up despite trading Castillo to Mets”
I thought they did. That was the turning point, IMHO.
I am not making any further comments about the Twins, disturbing racial policies.
Craig, if you’re going to make that kind of accusation…you’d better be darn sure you’ve got the facts to back it up.
But I will respect the fact that your weak claims have effectively been shot down. If you need to take this opportunity to run with your tail between your legs go ahead.
I think the Twins, like anybody that knows anything about sports, are color blind.
T Yes Liriano has had control problems. But the change up and slider are easier to lay off if you’re looking for a fastball in a specific area. Another base hit on a fastball and the sac fly was on a low fastball.
Liriano getting lit up today.
I hope most of Liriano’s issues are mental aspects…because I’d hate to see an injury be the end of his career.
Liriano will struggle to be a good major league pitcher unless they let him go back to the violent delivery and add 3-4 mph back to the heater.
Young’s throw and Liriano’s pitching——-not what we were expecting.
unless they let him go back to the violent delivery and add 3-4 mph back to the heater.
Wasn’t that violent delivery what did in his elbow in the first place?
Darn a online throw and Buck is DEAD at the plate. Another run scored on a basehit on a fastball.
He isn’t getting rocked, he isn’t that far off from being real good, imo.
“My understanding was that Castillo’s status as a free agent wasn’t a guarantee.”
T- you are correct. The status of FA are not determined until the end of the season (becasue some players do not reach FA) but it was generally accepted that he would likely be a Type B
Agree, (hank)Aaron. Giving him the benefit of the doubt.
T - maybe, but then either put him in the bullpen or find some middle ground between violent and this weak shite, he needs to add at least some hip turn
I think part of what made the Castillo trade sting was that Casilla ended up not being as ready to takeover as the club had thought.
They seemed pretty sure he could do it, and unfortuantely Casilla could not.
“If you need to take this opportunity to run with your tail between your legs go ahead.”
I would love to debate the Twins racial issues, but I don’t think this is the place to do so. People here get way too emotional about it, as I found out last time I brought it up.
Enjoy the game, that’s what I am doing.
Guys, it will take some time for Lirano to regain his control and volocity. If he has games like this in August or Septemeber, I will start to worry.
Hope Casilla gets another shot someday. I’d like to see him and Gomez in the lineup someday. Speed doesn’t have slumps.
actually Ryan it isn’t true that velocity is lost from this surgery anymore, in fact numerous guys have come back throwing harder - the loss in velocity is due to the change in delivery - he just hit 93mph an inning or so back but he finished wildly with the delivery on that pitch
I agree about the racial issues discussion, however, unless you’re close to the organization and have specific examples, please don’t throw the race card out on the table. That has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on this blog.
So I take it this Butler fellow is the second coming of Mike Sweeney?
Give him some time. HEis control will come back and so will his velocity. It is his first start back. If you expected him to come back anywhere near 100% you havent been paying attention because its been established it will take most of this year for him to gain any resemblance of what he was.
And Guillen apparently to the Royals what White was to the Twins.
Al Kaline. Won a batting title at age 19! Is he the guy they named the alkaline battery after?
T- agreed with your point on Casilla.
If Dustin Martin continues to tear up AA, it will all be moot and TR will again look brilliant. He has to be off to the most impressive start of any prospect. Although, I see Kevin Mulvey has a .083 ERA after two starts. Not bad.
One thing I just liked….he shook off the fastball to get his slider and he threw that pitch really well. Nice to see that. I don’t think he is doing nearly as bad as it looks.
“Hope Casilla gets another shot someday. I’d like to see him and Gomez in the lineup someday. Speed doesn’t have slumps.”
That’s correct. I too hope to see Casilla again.
Tolbert actually has better speed than Casilla, though he’s not as good a base stealer.
Francisco’s a little heavier than he was in ‘06? Sure looked like it in that highlight.
Green is the only color Pohlad cares about.
You can be “heavy” and not be fat.
He has kept the ball in the yard and is throwing all the pitches, he has been much better than I expected.
“Liriano will struggle to be a good major league pitcher unless they let him go back to the violent delivery and add 3-4 mph back to the heater.”
MLB is packed with successful pitchers who don’t have Liriano’s current velocity.
The minors are packed with unsuccessful pitchers who throw harder than Liriano.
Write him off for lack of command, movement and not enough velocity to compensate for the other deficiencies.
If you want to write him off for lack of velocity, you have insufficient evidence.
Liriano leaves me a little sad.
He’s just not ready yet.
But he has good stuff…….the arm works.
So with Liriano struggling, I take it we all hate Rick Anderson and Gardy’s an idiot for calling him up this early?
I know these bandwagons get going pretty quickly, I don’t want to get left behind this time.
Can that be interference? Lamb’s going to field the ball…
Gettin’ homered! ! !
he has a deceptive delivery and some good pitches besides the heater but unless they let him add some hip turn and get the velocity back up he will be just like most of the other pitchers (4.00 era) that is all I am saying
Will Liriano start on Friday at the Dome vs. Cleveland? If so, I might have to go.
“So with Liriano struggling, I take it we all hate Rick Anderson and Gardy’s an idiot for calling him up this early?”
Haha. Yes, and if Liriano had pitched a shutout, Gardy would be an idiot for not having on the team since day one.
Yep T. Credit to the umps for talking about that and making the right call.
Haha. Yes, and if Liriano had pitched a shutout, Gardy would be an idiot for not having on the team since day one
I’m glad we can agree on some stuff! 
He is throwing as hard as johan and has a much better breaking ball and as good a change. Whats the problem, once he gets his command he is going to be outstanding. velocity is one of the least important things about a pitcher.
T:
Sorry,T. Livan, Boof, and maybe Liriano, are not just “heavy”. Hrbek and Kirby were a little more than “heavy” also, so it’s pretty good company to be in.
He pitched better than Slowey, even though he isn’t fully back.
If he feels good he will go friday. I already have tickets.
Man, Gomez is swinging the bat pretty well…I wish he wouldn’t have wasted his first couple AB’s.
TOBY:
He just gave up three less homers than Santana did, too. But I don’t want to talk about that.
My point is that if he properly locates the pitches he has (with the velocity he has), he can still be a great pitcher.
Right now, (understandably) his location is bad. If he throws a 97 mph fastball in the middle of the strike zone, he will get ripped. If his command improves enough, his current velocity is good enough.
You could be right, EF, but I don’t know. If he had his command, I think he could be an all star — for the reasons you just stated.
Vavra was a genius in 2006, and a complete idiot by 2007. No coach in the history of baseball became stupid so fast.
maybe he took a line drive off his head
I’d like to see the Twins add a few more runs. Not for the obvious “I don’t want to lose” reasons, but just because it’d be a nice confidence thing going into the Detroit series.
They’ve taken two series from a Division rival. That’s a great start. Especially considering they’re the only team that’s done it not named the Yankees (who only did it once)
“maybe he took a line drive off his head”
It’s the only explanation.
So I wanted see what type of players are picked with sandwich picks…
While the vast majority of them have not made it. There are some pretty good names.
Dustin McGowan
Brian Roberts
Clay Buchholtz
Luke Hochevar
Jed Lowrie
Joba Chamberlin
Huston Street
Adam Jones
Jerrod Saltalamacchia
David Wright
Again, notice the Twins did not draft any of them. (Their best pick IMO was Aaron Heilman- who didnt sign). Instead we have picked Henry Sanchez, Matt Fox and others…
Liriano — outstanding game; much more than we could have expected; he has trust and confidence issues right now; the more he pitches the more confident he will become that his arm isn’t going to fall off.
Liriano will be much better in August than he is in April; the kid shows everything we needed to have confidence that the Franchise will be capable of being what we thought he could. In fact, let Carlos G be the first to say he wins the Cy Young in 2010 — the year of outdoor baseball (woohoo).
“IF” he didn’t have good stuff, he wouldn’t have had the strikeouts and those guys wouldn’t be looking silly on some of those swings. The “only” problem is that isn’t comfortable enough to trust his arm on each delivery. He is thinking too much on the delivery.
IMO, we are going to be very happy with this young man.
(Plenty of room on my bandwagon folks)
Carlos G, I am in complete agreement. He threw just fine, wasn’t rocked, and had a little bit of tough luck. His velocity will continue to go up and his command will get better. He is already better than Slowey.
T, didn’t Bannister win 12 games with the lowly Royals last year? He’s a good pitcher. And no Cuddy and Mauer today.
Henry “the Sandwich” Sanchez, was one of the Twins funniest, high draft picks.
The Sandwich, has way too little talent, and way too much mayo around the mid-section.
Bannister has been one of the best pitchers in baseball since the break last season. He is a stud, and has pitched quite well today.
You cant compare liriano to slowey at all. They are completely different pitchers.
We seem to hit a “disproportionate” number of double plays against the Royals. Wonder why.
7th inning stretch.
“Buy me some mittens and stocking hats,
I don’t care if Lir-i-ano is fat”
hmm, so you aren’t allowed to say one player is better than another if they have different styles of play? You learn something every day.
I think we hit into a disproportinate number of double plays against every team.
Liriano hasn’t been better than Slowey for weeks now. And he hasn’t improved for weeks now.
Though I pretty much agree with Carlos G. too. The Royals have been hot — except against the Twins — this year. So, even though Liriano never found his rhythm, the Royals didn’t T off on him, like AaronK said.
But he’s the 6th start on the Twins right now.
Top of the seventh. It’s rally time. That closer they have is nasty.
LOL with Ryan W.
Remember last year when the Twins weren’t hitting into double plays because the bases were empty.
The rookies and the almost-a-rookie looked terrible.
Now LOL with Sane.
Rincon enters the game with a 6.00 ERA and it goes UP!!!
One more guy looks a little heavy. But Delmon is more svelte than his bro’ Dmitri. David Letterman called players like Dmitri Young “disgusting tubs of goo” once on his show.
But that’s just Letterman for ya.
He’s a good pitcher.
I’m not saying anything bad about Bannister. Just want a few more runs as a motivation.
“It ain’t over ’till it’s over.” - Yogi Berra
What a joke. Oh we’re going for the sweep, lets put some sad asses in to seal the deal. Wait. Wait! Way to go Gardy…
It’s over.
So I wanted see what type of players are picked with sandwich picks…
While the vast majority of them have not made it. There are some pretty good names.
That list reminds me essentially of any other list of players who have been sucessfull as the X-draft spot.
It’s hit or miss for everybody. Some teams may hit more, and then that’s where you can assess it more as a draft approach vs. the draft itself.
Oh we’re going for the sweep, lets put some sad asses in to seal the deal.
Everett and Redmond. Otherwise this is the team’s A-lineup.
Also, you should probably voice that comment before the game rather than after the game’s already over.
At least then you can say you were worried from the start and not just waiting for the results to go either way.
“What a joke. Oh we’re going for the sweep, lets put some sad asses in to seal the deal. Wait. Wait! Way to go Gardy…”
Huh?
5-3 against the division with two more to go on the road trip.
Let’s hope the Twins don’t suffer the brunt of that Tiger’s staff finally waking up.
SANE:
Can you be heavy but not fat to sing also?
(you know, ain’t over ’til fat lady sings……….ok that was dumb.)
Forget the rookies……..Mauer and Young are in slumps, Lamb is spotty, and Cuddy is out. And Span ain’t no Cuddy.
The Franchise era is now officially over.
The Twins have a legitimate chance at the WC this year. They can’t afford to dink around with Liriano hoping he reduces his high number of walks. They need wins, not OJT for the recovering Liriano.
I was thinking it before the game too, I just wasn’t online then. Redmond sucks, Everett…bleh. I guess Mr.Cretin-Derham-Hall needs all the rest he can get.
I don’t understand with an 8+ era in spring training and a 7.50 era in two
minor league games why they thought Liriano was ready for this start? Read my post from 11:41 am. Nuff said. Three hits, one was a bloop single by Morneau and another was lost in the sun and originally scored an error. 3 runs in the last two games. Pathetic.
I guess Mr.Cretin-Derham-Hall needs all the rest he can get.
Best I can remember, this is Redmond’s second start of the season…maybe third.
“What a joke. Oh we’re going for the sweep, lets put some sad asses in to seal the deal. Wait. Wait! Way to go Gardy…”
MarkIV,
Gardy is better at his job than you would be at your job if you had a job.
It was a pleasure reading your other contributions to the thread.
Oh, wait!
There weren’t any.
“Let’s hope the Twins don’t suffer the brunt of that Tiger’s staff finally waking up.”
last time i checked its 9th inning soxs beating tigers 11-0…
They’ve only played 12 games, so Mauer needs to rest 25% of the time? Terrible. When you’re going for the sweep vs. one of the opponents best pitchers, you have to play the entire A squad, hands down.
Tip your cap to the KC pitcher. He was in control of this game. Forget this game and move forward.
The Twins have been playing some real good competitive baseball. I have been very impressed so far. I have to admit, I didn’t think they would be this good. Let’s see if it continues.
Liriano vs Bannister
It was a difficult matchup from the beginning. Forget the A-team.
Mauer, Tolbert, Torii and Kirby would not have made a difference today.
buff, insert the name Maddox or Mussina instead of Bannister.
So, a great pitcher just 3-hit the Twins.
Not quite “pathetic”.
Tigers just got shut out. Leland must be goin’ nuts. Poor guy.
J Jones looked horrible swinging at off-speed curves and stuff in the 9th. Same ol’ same ol’.
The Twins shut this KC team out for two straight games. That’s impressive. In the long run, that is a lot more meaningful, than scoring twelve runs in one game against a couple of pitchers in Chicago, who had nothing.
Yesterday the A team won 2-0.
Mauer and Tolbert, the only “regulars” sitting today went 0 for 8 with 7 LOB.
The A-team is not the 7th Cavalry.
I think it was a mistake to bring back Liariano at this point. When your AAA manager says he needs two more starts, and you call him up anyway, what message are you sending?
You don’t trust your minor league staff to do their jobs?
You don’t want to start the clock on Mulvey?
Liriano should not be up with the big club until he is obviously comfortable doing his job.
The lineup was fine. Redmond is going to give Joe a day off here and there. No problem with that. Remember last year when the roster was even less deep and they’d have had 3-4 terrible players in there at at time? This roster is deeper, if still not blessed with enough very good players.
put liriano back on the shelf for awhile…doesnt appear that he is ready–maybe give him one start at the dome where its warm , but i would not hold my breath on this kid until mid to the latter part of the season…he just needs time….
Romer: Yeah, but we got only two runs last night. Our lineup will be better. I’m just hoping we don’t have a repeat of the 2007 offense where we end up with 8 or 9 hits but they’re never bunched together and always produce one or two runs a night. Young, Lamb and Everett have not impressed at the plate and Gomez seems to have no plan when he’s hitting. I could see Span taking over by mid-May if Gomez doesn’t get it figured out.
The good thing about Liriano pitching today, is the 2nd guessers who wanted him in the Big Leagues on Opening Day can rethink that.
Those of us who weren’t sure have evidence that the Twins may done the right thing in delaying his return.
IMO he has the job until Slowey’s return (which may include a rehab tour).
Redmond: “He [Liriano] gave us a chance. It’s just unfortunate the other guy was better, today”
Gardy said Liriano could throw the slider for strikes, but had trouble locating the fastball. Redmond said Liriano did pretty good, considering he has not pitched in the major leagues for 16 months. They sounded pleased by his progress, and got the performance from him, that they expected.
Is anybody seriously thinking Liriano should be judged negatively on his first game?
For once Craig, I agree with you. Liri all things considered wasn’t horrible out there.
No, we are thinking he should re-hab in the minors, not in the majors.
And, do you think he did well? Really? 4 and 2/3 innings and 4 runs? How many hits and walks? He was not good. What do you expect Redmond to say? Honesty in the public assessment of a teammate’s bad performance is rare. Heck, you can’t even get away with saying you disagreed on where a pitch should be called, let alone on how well someone actually performed.
“For once Craig, I agree with you.”
Shaun,
Sometimes the most unexpected thing happens! Haha.
If Liriano’s arm isn’t hurting, and he can come back and pitch in 5 days, I will be very happy. People should be excited about that.
Don’t know what Redmond is talking about saying Liriano gave the Twins a chance.
Everyone is being kind to him, knowing what he’s been through.
It’s a bit of a double standard though.
But it was way cold today. Everyone should probably just forget about today and let him have a decent chance this week at the Dome.
For those saying he should have pitched in the minors. Would he have had Anderson down there to moniter him and work with him? Me personally I want him glued to Anderson’s hip all the time. First start in a long time. Extreme cold weather. Everyone take a deep breath.
It’s a bit of a double standard though.
I don’t know if you were in Howard’s blog recently, but there’s that quote from Neshek that some people are taking as a slam at Mauer.
This is sorta the kind of point I was trying to make there. Guys say “he gave us a chance” or “we did what we could” and everybody gets down on them.
But then somebody suggests there may have been a miscue somewhere and everybody jumps on them as finger pointing.
Not saying you, just saying this is an example of the fans having almost an identical double standard.
Tip your cap to the KC pitcher. He was in control of this game. Forget this game and move forward.
Agreed. The Royals have been playing good ball, and the Twins so far are the only team to win a series (and they’ve done it twice)
It’s never easy to sweep a team.
last time i checked its 9th inning soxs beating tigers 11-0…
That’s what I’m saying. That team isn’t going to go 2 and 160. I just don’t want them to wake up in time for their series with the Twins.
Quick question for the ones who watched the game:
how was Liriano’s location on the screen? I followed the game with the mobile version of mlb’s gameday and it seemed that several pitches that were called balls were actually strikes.
As far as his performance goes, he is pitching better than Sabathia, Buehrle, Dontrelle, Byrd Ian Kennedy and that’s fine with me…
Romer
Should the Twin’s players rip into Liriano? Say that he was awful and he gave the Twins no chance? Or maybe take the soft glove approach, build some confidence? He was pitching in freezing weather for the first time in 16 months! Wow. We won a series from a divisional opponent. Got Liriano’s first ML start under his belt. Go kick a cat of a tree if you have to get so wound up. (thats not directed at you romer just anyone bent out of shape here)
And it’s not like Liriano could be blamed for the one run on offense.
If they had scored 3-4 for him and he had that outing you could argue that the offense gave him support (can’t score 12 every night).
thrylos98
Maybe a few pitches didn’t called for him. An ump is much more likely to call a strike for a guy who has proven he’s consistently in the strike zone. For the most part the ump called a fair game. Especially in the last inning he was up and wild with just about everything. Earlier he had some good pitches, but as I mentioned earlier the Royals seemed to be sitting on his fastball. As his control comes around I don’t think hitters will be able to do that. Not a great start but not an awful one either. Looking foward to the next one!!!!
Well I don’t know, JP. He had Anderson in ST, and the results have pretty much been the same there, today, and in the minors.
He needs an extended period of recovery-development.
And I’ve been holding back, but now I’ll say it —- the Twins were dumb for pitching him today in these conditions. You could see it coming.
Nothing has been falling into place for him with his late ST start, being put on a delivery leash by his coaches, poor weather in the minors, etc.
It’s too soon.
They wouldn’t bring any other pitcher along like they’re doing with him with his spotty ST and all. So why are they putting this extra pressure on him?
I keep hearing everyone on radio and TV saying they’ll be very careful with him this year. But except for their delivery-restriction plan and the normal pitch-count restrictions, I don’t see evidence that they’re being exceptionally careful with him.
Just the opposite, they’re putting extra pressure on him by bringing him up.
But we’ll see how he does his next start.
One thing about the lineup: Gardy better start Monroe over Span in all 3 games in Detroit. I am sure that he wants to leave a message to them and its about time that he gets some ABs…
Romer
I’m glad “you” could see it coming. I think most people could. That doesn’t mean it was the wrong choice. And would you rather have him continously working with Anderson or not? If the results would have been same whether he was in AAA or in the bigs, I would rather have him up here getting a taste, getting the competitve juices flowing, working with Anderson than in the minors. Plus it was fit the situation with Slowey going on the DL. Thats why you hear the comments from Redmond and others, to relieve him of the extra pressure. If anything they are saying, work on what you need to work on and don’t worry about the other stuff.
But we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Almost acceptable playing conditions in Detroit tomorrow. Wind chill about 40.
Should be warmer for the last game on Tuesday.
You’re probably right, JP. It’s more than Anderson.
He’s been in the wilderness pretty long. Now he’s in the promised land.
Too bad he couldn’t have had a couple more starts in good playing conditions in the minors. So technically in the short-term, he’s called up too soon.
But in the long-term it could equalize back because of spending more time at the MLB level with Anderson and all.
Better watch Sunday Night Baseball tonight. Yanks/Red Sox grudge match. Heard the Gambino crime family tried to hex the new billion dollar Yankee Stadium. They buried a David Ortiz jersey in the cement, so they dug it up. I think the Gambino’s will go to the mattresses now and send that soldier to Sicily until the heat dies down. They gotta do this every few years to get rid of bad blood.
(Can’t make this up. It’s a true story. And, oh yeah, I saw the Godfather last night.)
Perfectly healthy pitchers pitch worse games than Liriano just pitched. If there is no improvement in his next two starts, then everyone will ACTUALLY have enough information to make a decision on his immediate future.
By then Slowey will, hopefully, be completely healed. If not, the Twins can start studying RedWings performances more closely.
I hear what you are saying Romer, but from what I understand his scheduled start today in Rochester wouldn’t have been much better weather wise. So in my mind all things being equal, get him up here.
Who cares how Liriano pitched when this team can’t hit. Who would have ever guessed that Harris would end up being the best player in the Garza-Young trade? Gomez bunting every single AB is getting old and predictable — best learn how to take a real swing in the big leagues now while you’re being given the opportunity, kid. The stat of the league thus far: going into yesterday’s ball game the Royals were second in the league in fewest team walks with 30… the Twins were first WITH 14! Really nice approach to hitting — you have to wonder if it were not for Mauer watching three straight strikes go down the center of the plate every other at bat whether the team would actually know that the rules do not mandate that you have to swing at every friggin’ pitch. The fact that they’re temerarious enough to think that opposing teams/pitchers are too stupid to notice their lack of patience at the plate infers a team that more often than not beats itself.
As far as pitching goes, frankly I am more concerned with Rincon than Liriano. He hasn’t been able to have a single serviceable outing this year. If Liriano shows improvement & Slowey returns fine, the Twins would be in position to have 6 starters for 5 spots. Assuming that Hernandez, Baker and Bonser are set, I would rather see one of Liriano, Blackburn or Slowey take Rincon’s spot (actually Guerrier took it already, since Rincon is coming in only when the Twins are down) than having them back in the minors with Rincon in the bullpen. Alternatively, Gardy can go with an 11-men staff and get a much more needed hitter up.
It isn’t just us, it is also his AAA manager. Did anyone listen to Smith’s show today? First question was “what reports did you get on Liriano” and Smith didn’t answer the question.
Nope, I don’t think a guy rehabing should be in the majors. If Anderson is the only pitching coach they can trust at all, they have a bigger problem. Until he is ready, he shouldn’t be up.
I think it is legitimate to question this decision.
T-
Sometimes you amuse me.
Resigning Morneau, Cuddyer, and Nathan. Seems to be your answer to the Cheap, and the frugal, and the shortsighted comments with the Twins all the time.
Yet did we bring in any quality free agents? Would you consider Cuddyer or Nathan anywhere near as important to this team as Hunter or Santana, or 3rd base?
I like Cuddyer, and I like Nathan, but jesus wept, you over-simplify with that. The Twins would have been better offensively had we given Cuddyer another year of arbitration this year as he wouldn’t have made this much money. We would have been better going after a trade to get Hank Blaylock to play 3rd base.
Now I am not saying we should have kept Hunter at all costs, but when you know the players are asking for 5 years and 15 million, and the team purposely offers 4 years and 15 million, or 5 years at 12 million knowing that the player has already demanded what they demanded it’s lowballing just to show the below average IQ’d fan that they are making an offer. The Twins lowballed all their potential free agents, and only Nathan took it. They knew that they were screwed without Morneau. And I’m still confused at the big contract for Cuddyer when there is a .275-.280 guy with 20 homer capability every year in free agency signing a mediocre contract. Brad Wilkerson, Raul Ibanez, Trot Nixon… the list goes on and on.
Also did I mention something about Joe Vavra being freaking worthless yet today?
Oh yeah, I don’t need to point out the obvious to Twins fans… they can see the man couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag and belongs with the Timberwolves, maybe as their next head coach or GM? He has as much qualification to be that as he did a hitting instructor
Hey Hank S. of the Yankees, Great Start by the trade “untouchable” Phil (phenom) Hughes tonight. Bill Smith might have picked the best player package offered. GoGo looks to have better upside than Jacoby Ellsbury possibly. We will see how it all works out.
Heh-heh. Hughes gives up 7 runs in less than 3 innings tonight to the Bosox
Dice K throws 91 pitches in 4 innings.
Cold weather in Boston tonight.
Makes ya appreciate the Twins staff.
COCO:
I’m with you. These guys are struggling, Santana’s throwing go-fer balls, I’ll take what we got.
Don’t be mad, but I’m still glad we didn’t trade for your namesake, Coco Pebbles or Coco Puffs or Crisps or whoever it was.
Ya thats what im thinking Coco. Im glad we got Gomez instead of hughes and melky. I think he’s going to be a better player then those guys.
And also its kinda of funny to see Johan yesterday giving up the long ball just like he did last year!!
TWINSFAN:
I heard the comment that the next time around the league the hitters will figure out Livan and his ephus pitches. Looks like it took less time than that to figure out Johan.
Coco Crisp is batting as we speak/type/blog. Watch him hit a five run homer just to tear my heart out.
No problem, I guess. About 300 feet and 5 ribbies short.
He’s no good either.
OPINION POLL:
What if someone buried a jersey in new Twins stadium to put a curse on the Twins? Whose jersey would it be?
lnp
Someone take a picture of the scoreboard next time LNP comes up to bat..he’s hitting .500!! LOL
Ha-ha, Shawn. Good one.
But Punto looked good on Saturday. I really hope he’s snapped out of his psycho-funk. The Twins need him to.
Suspect players so far (I know, only 2 weeks) —
Monroe
Cuddy
M&M
Everett
Rincon
Liriano (I suppose)
Everett’s arm. We’ve talked Liriano to death already today. Rincon analysis is obvious.
Cuddy — He’s got that big footbal-type body. Might be beyond his prime.
Morneau — Okay, except where’s the BA? It’s been a while since he’s been a consistent good hitter with a good BA.
Mauer — He looks a little tired/reserved at the plate, or something. Ironically, his performance might hinge on how good Redmond can hit this year — so that Mauer gets a lot of days off.
Monroe — If I accept it’s too early to really tell, I still have to say he looks a little like a fish out of water. Not his performance skills, but how he LOOKS. The way Baker looked early last year, like a baby-faced kid in over his head.
Tovar.
What number was Dick Such wearing when he was the pitching coach here?
Joe Vavra’s number?
a Powder Blue Lenny Faeado jersey?
Hustin Jimmenez? Andre David? Bobby Castillo? Pete Redfern?
Any of those players would wilt the grass at the very least with their amazing careers.
One can’t even say a David Ortiz jersey because when we got rid of him while it was questionable, he wasn’t the David Ortiz he is now, and he never would have been had it not happened.
K-rod maybe? That guy has owned us since he was a rookie.
BC, your dismissal of the Nathan, Cuddy, and Morneau signings as signs of change are just as foolish as you claim my use of them to be. Your argument seems to be “they didn’t spend the money on players I WANT” as opposed to “they didn’t spend the money on players who would help”
As far as this statement:
but when you know the players are asking for 5 years and 15 million
Oh yes, Hunter was “asking” for 5/75. He wanted 5/75 so bad that he went and played for LAA when they threw 5/90 at him. Even with three teams he wanted to go play for had already offered him 5/75. But I’ve said that before, you just casually ignore it because facts that don’t support your opinion aren’t facts at all.
Here’s what happened:
1) Twins offer 3/45.
2) Angels offer 5/90.
3) Hunter takes 5/90.
4) BC spends ‘08 whining about Pohlad.
Here’s what could’ve happened:
1) Twins offer 5/75.
2) Angels offer 5/90.
3) Hunter takes 5/90.
4) BC spends ‘08 whining about Pohlad.
Am I close?
Lots of good blogging today. new and improved Craig, you really are improved, thanks! BC Beneke, you could stand new and improving. You mentioned the other day that you are “angry”. Try a more positive outlook for one week and see if you like it.
Losing Hunter hurts some this year, but do you really think it would have been smart to match what the Halos are giving him? Wouldn’t you rather have Gomez, long term? Or Santana (who I love) - too much money for one pitcher, who may or may not be a Cy again? Twins have lots of arms.
I do agree that it’d be nice to see a real FA signing, but maybe this wasn’t the year for that. 2009 or 2010, perhaps.
Look at the results so far. 1-3 to start the year, but lost 2 one run games. Since then, 2-1 vs. KC (twice) and a split in Chicago. You’ve got to think that the team chemistry isn’t there yet. Isn’t it a pretty decent start vs. what we expected?
Go Twins!
I really hope he’s snapped out of his psycho-funk. The Twins need him to.
I think Gardy taking him out of the starting role has lifted the pressure off his back. He can’t do everyday, but it looks like they’ve found a role for him once a week or in emergencies.
Of course, it’s left some commenters with nothing else to talk about all season. So they’ve regressed back to the old offseason diatribes.
Unfortunate really.
I do agree that it’d be nice to see a real FA signing, but maybe this wasn’t the year for that. 2009 or 2010, perhaps.
It wasn’t. The Twins are using 08 to assess their inhouse solutions where available. Lamb and Everett are holding down the fort at SS and 3B while they look at a few guys in the minors who aren’t quite ready for primetime(though Tolbert may have made a case for more regular play over Everett).
Everett will be gone next year, and depending how things pan out Lamb may be as well. Monroe appears to already being “phased” out now that Kubel’s shown he actually likes to hit.
Here’s the deal, though. Do you really expect them to ever sign a FA or trade for a player in his prime that is making good money? There is no evidence that will happen. They didn’t do it earlier this decade, when all they needed was a decent DH or 3B. Decent would have been a HUGE upgrade, yet they refused to sign or trade for anyone.
Young doesn’t count. He’s still cheap. Until I see them do it, I’ll never believe they will sign a FA or trade for a player making good money.
I don’t know how anyone can argue that this organization is cheap. They spend less money than many organizations on draft picks (ironic, since they say drafting and developing is their style), they have a below median payroll, they raised ticket prices this year (even knowing they were losing Silva, Hunter, and Santana), and they have refused to sign or deal for players that make money.
As someone pointed out above, they were 1 or 2 players away, year after year, earlier this decade. They refused to do anything about it. So far, they have given no evidence that anything has changed.
I guess that should be “isn’t” not “is” above.
mike wants wins just remember the old saying of a day late a dollar short it should be the Twins new saying
mike wants wins here is another saying and lets say it together” We were so close next year with a few more pieces we could possibly get a little further” or try this one “with this new batch of rookies and one or two more pieces we could be pretty good”
With time I will not be able to tell the difference between the TB Rays and the Twins.
Dick Such wore number 42. Maybe not the best coach, but a real good guy. Had a few drinks with him in Hubert’s one night after a Vikings game. He was coaching last year with I think the Camden, NJ Riversharks in the independent Atlantic League.
they raised ticket prices this year (even knowing they were losing Silva, Hunter, and Santana)
This just in, ticket prices usually go up every few years. For every team. I’m guessing prices occasionally drop, but I would guess it’s few and far between.
Decent would have been a HUGE upgrade, yet they refused to sign or trade for anyone.
They didn’t trade for anybody because they were too busy hoarding prospects. You’d think seeing Bill Smith trading away previously untouchable RHP Matt Garza and starting SS Jason Bartlett for a young impact bat (Delmon Young) would be more than an indication that there’s a change in the way of thinking.
Do you remember the mistakes that TR made that lead to Santana, Hunter, and Silva leaving? He waited too long to discuss new contracts.
What did Smith do? He got contracts done for two players that this team needs in Cuddy and Morneau, and then signed Nathan to an extened contract.
Last I checked, contracts for Morneau and Nathan was what everybody here wanted. And now suddenly everybody’s dismissing that. How? The Twins “old way” would’ve been to just let Morneau and Cuddy play out their current contracts and hope they’ll take something when the time comes around.
Not to mention people figured Nathan would be dealt midway through the season.
There is no evidence that will happen.
Terry Ryan handed Bill Smith a team that needed to be rebuilt. Part of rebuilding is to not go out and sign big money free agents that may only be around for a year or two. Yeah Lamb and Everett aren’t going to make this team a contender, but they’re doing their job right now which is to hold down the fort while the team assess what’s in the minors.
And judging from the last few series, Gardy may have found Everett’s replacement in Tolbert. Much sooner than expected. And may have also finally gained the confidence in Kubel to keep him in the lineup everyday. Which means Monroe’s now a bench option and likely will be gone at season’s end.
The way the team is rebuilding, Gomez is a better assest than Rowand. Gomez will be growing up along with Young, which means the team projects to have a strong core for quite a while. Rowand would’ve been an immediate boost…but the team wouldn’t have been able to capitalize on it before it was too late (Rowand in his final year or two or already on the downslide)
Bill Smith’s offseason wasn’t easy. He had a lot of tough choices thrown at him and he did what he could to ensure the team wasn’t set too far back.
I’m satisfied with the moves he made, and can see a plan forming. I’m very interested to see his next offseason. And if the Twins are in it somehow in 08, what he does at the deadline. He’s got some interesting “extra pieces” in the minors (if Gomez is the future then Span and Pridie are essentially excess) that could be used to aquire a 3B. But they’re not going to go that route this year unless they’re positive that a guy like Macri or Buscher will NOT be the answer.
As far as the payroll is concerned, yeah. It’s less this year. That’s because you’ve got a very year squad, and three big contracts came off the books in the 07 offseason. That leaves plenty of room to expand the payroll as the young guys (Gomez, Young, Liriano, Boof, Baker, Blackburn, Neshek, etc) start getting into their first big contracts. My understanding is that a number of those players are still in their arbitration years. So yeah, they’re going to be “cheap”
“with this new batch of rookies and one or two more pieces we could be pretty good”
Cuddyer, Morneau, Mauer, Nathan, Baker, Bonser, and Liriano (to name a few) are not rookies.
Gomez isn’t a rookie. Nor is Young. There’s a difference between “rookie” and “inexperienced” or “young”.
I swear some people just don’t grasp what “rebuilding” means. Remember Cleveland with those “nobodies” Sizemore, Hafner, Sabathia, and Carmona? Man…they sure screwed over their fans!
Unless your in New York or Boston..the money just isn’t there to sign everybody all the time. This is the first serious “rebuild” the Twins have done since the 2002 “Get to know’em” days.
T I was making fun of what I here every year with following the Twins. Every single year he same excuses every year. The Twins are always going to be just a few years away or just a few pieces away or maybe even just an excuse away. Over and over again like a broken record. Do you know what a broken record sounds like cause to me it sounds like Dick and Bert at the last game of the year either talking about a few more pieces maybe picking up a DH or waiting till 2011 which might as well be 3011 in my book. Go angel’s
the same excuses every year. Sorry my bad
I guess it could be worse I could follow the A’s the Marlins or the Tigers. But I think the Tigers eventually will turn it up because they have to much talent on the team to stink that bad for an entire season. I just hope this series isn’t the one where the Tigers wake up cause that could get reaaaaly bad
The Twins are always going to be just a few years away or just a few pieces away or maybe even just an excuse away.
See, that was my concern when Silva, Santana, and Hunter all left. Terry Ryan made mistakes that cost us three valuable players (though I think Hernandez at worst will be a cheaper Silva).
I got upset and frustrated with the mistakes, however I’d be more frustrated if the team didn’t learn from those mistakes.
The signings of Nathan, Cuddyer, and Morneau are a sign they’ve learned from those mistakes. As is trading an “untouchable” pitching prospect for a despreately needed bat. And not just any bat. A young bat that can be around for a while.
The Santana trade was doing the best with what was available. Yeah they overplayed their hand, but Smith was in a tight spot from the start. Everybody knew that he had to deal Santana in the offseason or risk getting nothing but a few draft picks (which was also an “old way of doing things”).
Meanwhile people such as yourself are getting furstrated and upset over sometihng that hasn’t happened yet and are completely ignoring the signs that it’s changing.
And yes, “ignoring” is exactly the word I want to use there.
Is everyones savior “Liriano” looking just wonderfull yet. He couldn’t even keep the scores low in the minors so how will he do it in the show. Liriano has had 2 major surgeries. Here are similiar players I will mention. Gagne, Prior and Kerry Wood.
santana ever get booed in miiny?
from si:
Mets fans let Santana have it
Posted: Sunday April 13, 2008 08:20AM ET
Gabe Kapler, a former backup guy in Boston, a guy who ruined his Achilles on the bases one night and thought he was never coming all the way back from that, turned on a Johan Santana fastball that the radar gun said came in at 89 miles per hour, and when it went over Angel Pagan’s head in left and over the wall it was 5-2 for the Brewers and Willie Randolph came to get the ball then. And when Santana walked off, even he found out how edgy Mets fans are about everything this season, because of the way everything went wrong last September. So even the new guy, who had nothing to do with last September, heard some boos yesterday. If you think Mets fans are going to let bygones be bygones, think again. “I know a lot of people are expecting a lot of things out of me,” Santana said in the interview room when it was over. “Today was a game I lost and that’s just about it.”They asked him if he ever heard boos in Minnesota and first he said that sometimes he doesn’t hear anything when he is pitching and then he said, “If they boo, that’s fine. That’s a history they got from not being so good.”
I just hope this series isn’t the one where the Tigers wake up cause that could get reaaaaly bad
The Tigers are a good example of a “mistake” made by the front office. All that hitting, but they had to trade away some good young pitching to get it.
Now their staff is struggling (and big aquisition Willis is on the DL) and they’ve got nobody ready to step up because they traded them all.
The Yankees mistake was pouring all kinds of money into big name players or trading a ton of prospects for a guy…and now they’re all getting older and the Yanks don’t have much to replace it with at the moment.
Or even the White Sox, who at one point were an offensive juggernaut…have discovered that you can’t just buy a bunch of power guys and expect to win (almost first in homers but are almost last in runs scored?)
Gagne, Prior and Kerry Wood.
Liriano will not be another Wood or Prior because Gardy and Anderson are not Dusty Baker.
T: Great Post. I agree they are in rebuilding mold right now.
I don’t agree there is evidence that they will sign that key FA or trade for a player already making good money. Now, it would be hard for there to be evidence this year, as they are rebuilding.
No, trading a young, low paid pitcher for a young, low paid hitter does not prove they are willing to spend more money. It proves they are willing to deal from their position of strength (which is a good decision and change of direction), but it does not prove they have changed their frugal ways.
In defense of TR, he previously signed others to keep them on the team. I do agree that he did mess up the Santana and Hunter situations by not signing them the previous year when he could have.
I’m not sure how locking up players is a real change in philosophy. They made smart economic decisions, but they didn’t break the bank for a new player.
Because they are rebuilding this year, I don’t expect them to make that kind of transaction. However, that doesn’t mean I believe they will next year, or the year after. I hope they do, I really hope they do, but I don’t know that they will.
T says you can’t just buy a bunch of power guys and expect to win
Well Boston has done pretty good at it and I remember the year that the Marlins did it before they cleared house
Here is what I here when watching the Twins game
Dick: Blah ba blah ba bla ba Cowboy hat
Bert: Ba ba blah ba blah Hot dog
Dick: Ba ba blah ba bah blah bla blah cuddy magic tricks in the club house
Bert: ba ba blah ba ba ba blah Circle this little tike from Omaha, Nebraska
but it does not prove they have changed their frugal ways.
I was using Garza/Young as evidence that the team is progressively changing their philosophy. Sort of “a change in one place gives me hope for a change in another” sort of view.
I’m not sure how locking up players is a real change in philosophy.
It was a failure in this department that lead to Hunter leaving and Santana having to be dealt.
but they didn’t break the bank for a new player.
True, but they also made decisions that will leave them in a better position to negotiate new contracts with their younger players. Smart contract negotiations early will lead to fewer situations in which they’d have to break the bank.
If nobody in the minor league system can fill 3B for the long term, I’d like to see the Twins make that the focus of their offseason. Of course, this is based on the assumption that Kubel can contribute on a regular basis and none of the other current players (Tolbert, Gomez, or Harris) suddenly decides they don’t want to be good. *knock wood*
Well Boston has done pretty good at it and I remember the year that the Marlins did it before they cleared house
Boston also supplments their team with quality young talent. Pedroia, Ellsbury, Bucholtz, Lester, Papelbon…not to mention Crisp and Lugo aren’t what I’d consider power threats.
Here is what I here when watching the Twins game
Funny, that reminds me of 90% of the things you post here.
“T” I guess I watch to much of Dick and Bert and it is rubbing off on me negatively. It’s rotting my brain. Oh no is the Dick and Bert show rotting my brain. Time for labotomy
I guess I watch to much of Dick and Bert and it is rubbing off on me
Nah. Dicknbert occasionally make me laugh.
T I actually think Bert is funny when he starts counting hot dog consumption
” Sort of “a change in one place gives me hope for a change in another” sort of view.”
Reasonable assumption, I hope you are right.
They’ve locked up players before, but I’m not sure how many. It may have even been last done under McPhail, not sure.
Also, I think the Hunter / Santana decisions were conscious decisions - that is, I think TR thought they’d be overpaid even if he locked them up the year before, and he decided not to. I don’t think he made a mistake (in his mind), I think he didn’t want to sign them for that much money for that long, even the year before they left.
Everyone including myself thought that Young would be way more productive at the plate this year. So far young’s presence at the plate has been anemic at best. So far Young is a long ways away from what hunter is presently doing at the plate
I have a bad feeling that the tigers are going to break out of their slump tonight. They have to start hitting sometime this year, I just hope i am wrong and it’s not during the next two games.
If the Tigers catch fire tonight it will be 16-2
Tiger suck they’re going to be terrible all year because their pithchung sucks!!
Unfortunately, We face Bonderman tonight and he’s usually good if the first half of the season.
Hopefully Blackburn keeps pitching as good as he has thus far.
Hopefully, Gardy plays all our good left handed batters tonight and lets Monroe play right!!!
t: i don’t ever remember bill smith saying this was a rebuilding year but “we plan to compete” yet you keep saying rebuilding year. is it now a rebuilding yr to the front office?
young is only in his second year so he isn’t going to do what hunter is doing now. give him a few years and look back at what hunter did his first few years! i think hunter got sent down once or twice in the early years.
There are our saviors Liriano and Young. I think everyone needs to re evaluate the season and change there expectation’s
Billy Smith’s free agent signings:
2008 salaries
5.00 mil - Hernandez - 1 yr.
3.82 mil - Monroe - 1 yr.
3.50 mil - Lamb - 2 yr. w/ 3rd yr. team option *
2.80 mil - Everett - 1 yr.
_________
15.12 mil
15.12 mil equals approximately 26% of the total team salary of roughly 57 mil.
* Mike Lamb receives 3.5 mil in 2008, 3 mil in 2009 and 3.5 mil in 2010 or a team option buyout of 100K. Total contract value = 6.6 mil.
On the days when Boof pitches and it snows in April my odds increase towards shoving my head in a garbage disposal
gobble,
When a team admits that it is rebuilding, it pays a financial penalty because fans stay home. Most teams won’t use the R word unless it is obvious. (see T-Wolves)
What the Twins FO says out loud and what they say in inter-office communications are probably very different.
Also, baseball is such a f–ked up sport, that rebuilding teams often compete and sometimes even win.
(see D-Backs)
When I say baseball is a f–cked up sport, I am saying it with love.
i don’t ever remember bill smith saying this was a rebuilding year but “we plan to compete” yet you keep saying rebuilding year. is it now a rebuilding yr to the front office?
People are saying the same thing about KC. And I think what happens is people get “competitive” mixed up with “contender”. At least that’s my opinion.
Being competitive to me is shooting to finish respectfully above five hundred and playing even with teams that are contending for the title. If everything clicks for a competitive team they’ll make a play for the Wild Card. Otherwise they’ll finish out of it by double digits.
A contender is a team that plays strong all season long and stays in the division hunt. They may not make the postseason, but they’ll fight hard and finish close (a handful of games out)
And if a team isn’t a contender, or even competitive, they’ll be a doormat.
Then you’ve got the doormat. This is the team that finishes with 90+ losses and doesn’t even sniff the postseason race. And usually it’s more than one season in a row. The Royals and Rays are perennially dismissed as doormats, and most people are writing off the Twins as such as well.
That’s just my defintions. But they seem reasonable.
Where is today’s lineup?
you guys make me laugh… ill say this once.. so lissen.. and stop arguing
twins are in a rebuilding year.. that doesnt mean they cant do very good this year or even win the world series.. just NOT very likely… though we have a very strong young crew and could maybe do what the dbacks did.. we have pitching (liriano is better then hughes atm… )(hughes yesterday: 2 innings 6 er 3 walks… and an era of like 20…)
and we also have hitting… you saw glimpses durring the 12-4 game and the 5-0 game… they are simply getting used to batting by each other… (rebuilding)
tigers idea of selling the farm didnt work and backfired… injuries and bad pitching… if your pitching is doing worse then the yankees then yes your batting no matter what wont win a game…
too bad it would take 5 years to get decent pitching through the farm… cause they have nothing anymore…
indians: not doing that bad.. had trouble at the start without their catcher.. now they arnt doing as bad.. expect them to be a contender..
overall… twins could be anywhere from 70 wins too 95 wins… depends if they wanna go for it this year… big range cause its a rebuilding year and we dont know what this group can really do yet… the range will get smaller later in the season..
tigers i cant even guess yet… problem is their pitching stinks and their hitting isnt comming together.. (same thing happening with the twins.. we have pitching though to back it up…) its called having new players batting with eachother and it takes time….
playoffs i think will be this
blue jays
angels
indians
wild card: twins or mariners or yankees or red soxs
“Being competitive to me is shooting to finish respectfully above five hundred”
“And if a team isn’t a contender, or even competitive, they’ll be a doormat.”
Are you referring to the Twins in 2007?
LION DRAGON:
I like your anyalysis. I agree on probably everything. But after 10 games, well,………………
(could you give me some powerball numbers?)
