Gomez looks dangerously overmatched
Posted on April 23rd, 2008 – 1:18 PMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins have to be patient with Carlos Gomez. The rest of us don’t.
From the time I first saw him in spring training, I wondered when I’d reach a point where I’d recommend a different course of action with him. That time has come.
Watching him go 0-for-5 with four strikeouts Tuesday was my final straw. He has six hits — and no walks — in his last 45 plate appearances. That translates into a .133 on-base percentage, the most important stat for a leadoff hitter. (Numbers corrected.)
He has 24 strikeouts in 89 plate appearances this season. Most players who strike out at that rate are power hitters. See Ryan Howard (30 Ks), Bill Hall (25), Carlos Pena (24). Gomez has a .310 slugging percentage. Howard’s is .367, Hall’s .444 and Pena’s .463.
Gomez needs a one-game break, at the very least. The Twins should even consider sending him, and not Denard Span, back to the minors when Michael Cuddyer returns from the DL on Friday.
Gomez leads the AL with nine stolen bases. He’s made two very nice diving catches, including a potential game saver on Sunday against Cleveland. He also is batting .167 (5-for-30 with nine strikeouts and no walks) with runners on base.
So who bats leadoff instead of Gomez? I would give Span his shot. Let him play center, his natural position, and see if he can turn in some quality at-bats that might settle down the entire offense.
By no means am I suggesting burying Gomez permanently. I see loads of potential. I went along with the Twins’ idea that by playing every day, stealing bases, etc., he would gain enough confidence to help him overcome the canyon-sized holes in his swing.
But the scouting report is well-established now. Pitchers are feeding him lots of sliders and getting him to chase lots of pitches out of the strike zone. The results are getting progressively worse. These are things he can work on in a less-pressurized environment.
The Twins shouldn’t let this 22-year-old shatter the confidence that is such a huge part of his game.
288 Responses to "Gomez looks dangerously overmatched"
I agree that he might need a break and that Span could fill if for him at CF but I don’t think Span should bat leadoff. Harris seems to have good on base skills and you don’t always need a speedster to hit leadoff so why not try him there and and have Mauer bat 2nd, Cuddy 3rd and so on.
reposted from earlier entry
Gomez is not a major-league caliber hitter. I’m not sure he ever will be. Some people just don’t have the ability. He not only has a bad eye at the plate, it’s almost like he is blind at the plate. It’s too bad becuase he has lots of potential otherwise.
you are right on joe…this kid needs to sit down for awhile and really maybe even sent back to AAA …. i think he doesnt take to learning very well, and i dont know why, its just an ugly feeling i get about him.. theres a certain amount of arrogance in his mannerisms, and oh hell i dont know and shouldnt pretend to know…but i do know how frustrating it is to watch this young man, with so much talent struggle so..go ahead and play monroe and span in cf for awhile and see what comes of that
bc twins fan says:
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
I agree that he might need a break and that Span could fill if for him at CF but I don’t think Span should bat leadoff. Harris seems to have good on base skills and you don’t always need a speedster to hit leadoff so why not try him there and and have Mauer bat 2nd, Cuddy 3rd and so on
I agree with you %100 the amazing speed is useless if he can’t get on base. It’s like having amazing power it’s useless if you can’t make contact.Even if Harris only steals a few at least there’s a chance Morneau gets up in the first inning.
I’m with you on this one, Joe. Gomez needs to go to Rochester and work on his plate discipline. This team is showing it could possibly contend for the playoffs, and he’s becoming a big liability at the top of the lineup. If he must stay, put him in the 9-spot.
Last night Gomez looked about how I would look if Gardy gave me a bat and put me out there.
span cf
tolbert ss
young lf
morneau lb
monroe dh
kubel rf
mauer c
harris 2b
lamb 3b
this is the lineup i would like to see, and i definately would move mauer out of that 3 hole…he is not hitting at all…i would try this and see what comes of it, i think this is the lineup for tonite except the batting order im sure
Mauer was hitting great in the 2-hole. Let’s put him back there, it’s a good fit for him. Gardy sucks.
With Joe Vavra teaching him hitting fundamentals there is great potential. Look at what the other Twins can do. Gooooo mighty Joe Vavra
The Twins should even consider sending him, and not Denard Span, back to the minors
the only 4 problems with this train of thought are:
a. Gomez (with all his issues) has actually been better on the batter’s box than Span (higer .BA, SLG and OPS)
b. Gomez has been much better than average with the glove while Span has been between mediocre and horrible.
c. With Gomez in the lineup the Twins have a higher change of success than with Span.
d. Gomez is an exciting player to watch. Span isn’t. I can see people pay to watch Gomez. I cannot see people pay to watch Span.
2nd thought i would switch tolbert and harris
Gomez is going to strike out time after time until someone gets it through his skull that he is not a power hitter. If he ever gets 2 strikes on him, the next pitch will be a waste pitch curve ball low and outside and he will fish at it and whiff. He needs a year at Rochester. He has speed and a good glove and arm but the Mets knew what they were doing when they let him go.
Robert, don’t jump off a cliff just yet…once again let us remind you that Gomez is 22 years old, and at that age our former star center fielder was playing the majority of the season at AA ball.
thrylos98, I agree that Gomez is a better option than Span but man, something NEEDS to be done about his bat. He has the physical tools, now if only he could develop that brain of his…
thylos…people pay to watch the twins win
Sit Gomez today, play him tomorrow. Go From there. Send him down for 2 months once Cuddy comes back. I think a humbling will help him learn. I think he has HUGE talent potential though.
Monroe in his last 6 games is 9/21 with 5 doubles and a dong. I like harries in the nine sport in stead, MJ1.
thrylos,
I would pay to watch Gomez….. but since my first game is July 7, i am not opposed to sending him down for a bit.
Gomez needs to eat, sleep, and piss in the batting cages seeing nothing but offspeed breaking balls until he learns to recognize them.
Kenny Lofton = stopgap solution!
Gomez needs to quit channeling Serrano….
pick up Frank Thomas and when he gets a hit let Gomez take over running bases for him. 2 steals a game and it takes Thomas off the base paths and Gomez away from the dish
Kenny Lofton = Lots of gap triples for the other team
In defense of Span’s defense … He looks uncomfortable in right field, but he said himself he hadn’t played in right in forever. Put him in center and see how he does. Gomez is becoming unwatchable. How many low-and-way breaking pitches can he swing at before he realizes it’s a pitch he can’t hit?!
send Gomez down and get the 2 months back. then bring him up. If Span doesn’t cut it, the Twins can try Pridie, he is probably the future 4th OF anyway
I think Gomez should go to some kind of Karate Kid-style camp that has just him as the student and Rod Carew as the teacher. After that week, then send him to AAA.
I also think Mauer should be sent down to AAA for a few days until he starts swinging at that first pitch now and then. If I see him watch another beautiful first pitch strike drift on by unchallenged, I think I will just eat my hat.
How many homeruns do you think Span would slam-dunk over the fence if we let him play all year?
Is Danard Span The same type player as Coco Crisp and Melky Cabrera. Blah blah blah fill a position
Arghhhh, Mauer isn’t the only Tiwns who does that, watch Cuddyer when he gets back, no one takes more fat fastballs down the gut for strike one than he does.
Mauer is no Mike Piazza
I agree with giving him a day off and placing him lower in the lineup for a while, but not with sending him to the minors. Are you going to send Delmon Young to the minors too, Joe? He’s batting just as poorly.
Our team needs Gomez’s speed and fielding ability. We need him because he’s exciting, and the only reason I’ve watched every game this season.
Gomez in the minors would be terrible and I would be bored stiff without watching him.
A quick check of Rochester’s stats shows Casilla who was the other fast, flashy young player that Gardy loved and played waaaay too much is hitting .155. Gardenhire seems to be enamored with speedy young players who can’t hit their weight, ala Gomez, Span and Casilla. I’ll take a crusty veteran like Sweeney or even Thomas any day.
Bob, keep Michael down there, too, for awhile. I’m ok with that. These Twins need to be more efficient at the plate. It can’t all be up to Morneau.
Chill out people. Let Vavra work with him. How many games has he played a major role in the Twins winning? How many games has he lost? Enough said.
I really enjoy Craig Monroe. He signed my baseball in spring training. Can he play Centerfield? He got a hit last night. Gomez is great and will be great, but we are 20 games into the season already. If he can’t develop in 20 games he will never develop.
wedo, I’m with you, but I’ll admit Gomez was beyond awful at the plate last night. I honestly wonder if Vavra or anyone is even working with him. If not it needs to happen soon or he’ll be in line with Punto’s numbers, and then there will be no end to the calls for AAA.
Young is not doing that well Paul but he is doing a lot better then Gomez. I don’t think Span is or ever will be the solution. I would much rather have Pridie up here if Gomez needs to sit for a while.
How about Kubel in left, Monroe in center, Cuddy in right, and Mike Redmond as DH? Let the new guys go to “summer school” for awhile in AAA.
Sending Gomez back down makes no sense. The Twins are not a competing team this year so you may as well give him his AB’s at the highest level. You can argue that he is far from polished, but why not work on him here? I personally look forward to his plate appearances.
Man, I wish someone would have brought this up during Spring Training. Maybe if someone would have mentioned that the Twins would have saved a year of aribitration elgibility by leaving him down in AAA for 2 or 3 months.
Oh wait, I said all that, how could I forget. If Gomez hadn’t had that good Home Opener I think people would have been saying this after the first week. He is not ready now, he wasn’t ready at the beginning of the season and he won’t be ready in a month. He needs a lot of work on his hitting. The Twins are going to regret not signing Corey Patterson when they had the chance.
probably do him good if they have a decent hitting coach at aaa. i have said before get moliter to be in his back pocket for a month (pay him what ever it takes) if thats at aaa or not. hunter was exactly the same way when he was young and never did completly get over it and he probably wont either. if not moliter carew one of them for a month would be a very good investment before he turns to a complete pile of doo.
bat mauer in the 1 spot best obp lets everyone else see some pitches.
mauer, harris, cuddy works for me.
Since Mollitor won’t accept the role as hitting coach for the whole team maybe he would accept the hitting coach position for just one Gomez pupil.
I think (hope) Big Harv is joking.
bc twins fan says:
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
I think (hope) Big Harv is joking.
moron if not joking
That’s what I thought JB but I just wanted to make sure.
chad…who said the twins are not competing…i beg you to tell them they arent…i get so sick of hearing that garbage..they arent playing these games for fun…this is the real deal chad…wake up..
The kid is exciting. What is the batting coach doing? Since, he’s at the MLB level, isn’t he supposed to be the best in the system?
if he turned into 75% of moliter i’d be very happy!
They are only a game and a half out of the division lead, in second place, ahead of Cleveland and Detroit, yet people still don’t accept the fact that the Twins might not be that bad.
I demand Mulvey come up to the mlb level.
Howard’s blog sucks taco sauce
@ bc twins fan
Gomez: .230, 20 hits, 5 2B, 0 HR, 5 RBI, .247 OBP, 2 BB, 9 SB
Young: .250, 19 hits, 3 2B, 0 HR, 6 RBI, .278 OPB, 3 BB, 4 SB
Granted, Young has half as many strikeouts, but what’s the difference? Neither of them are moving up runners. People only consider Gomez worse because strikeouts look bad. It’s an illusion.
Wow. This debate started a little earlier than I thought. Joe C. throwing Go Go under the bus in week three eh.
I say, give the kid some time. Boy he’s fun to watch, and he’s not any worse than any lead off hitter we’ve had. Except, every time he gets on base, he changes on the game, even if its only 1 in every 10 attempts.
Span will get on base and be a lump that might steal on half the catchers in the league, maybe.
OB%, not speed, is the single most important characteristic for a leadoff hitter. When will the Gardy and the rest of the Twins’ “traditionalist” brass get this through their thick skulls? Mauer is not a power hitter by any means… if there is no one else to fill the leadoff role, hit him in that spot, for crying out loud! You don’t need to be a top-notch base thief to lead off, and sabermetrics are not evil!
LOL. I apologize for the humor. I know that this is a serious board. Gomez just needs to drop his elbow a little more and he will be fine.
@Paul
Young’s OPS is 36 points higher. That’s not a lot but Young seems to be improving and Gomez seems to be getting worse.
Here are some numbers from so far this season:
ABs/Strikeout:
Harris 4.2 AB/K
Gomez 4.1 AB/K
Kubel 4 AB/K
Monroe 2.9 AB/K
OPS:
Young .594
Gomez .558
Cuddyer .556
Span .522
Lamb .493
Everett .437
Redmond .200
So you cannot make that kind of argument about Gomez without bias, without making it also for people who are actually either striking out more or producing less than him.
The kid needs work, but he is not the major problem of the team. This is clear. He actually was a major contributor for more than a couple of games for the Twins this year, unlike Mr Redmond, Cuddyer, Span, Everett, Punto, etc.
Interesting that this post was posted little after today’s Howard’s blog post 
BigHarv
I figured that you were kidding but you never know with some of the people who comment on these boards. It’s actually pretty sad that I thought you could be serious.
Joe C. is right.
Gomez was the focal point of a discussion I had with a pressbox wag during yesterday’s game. We both agreed that it’s time for a day off. A demotion? I wouldn’t go that far just yet, but he’s a wreck at the plate.
Gardy said yesterday that Span likely would be in the lineup today. Batting leadoff and playing center makes sense to me. Kubel, who’s hitting the ball well, and Monroe, who should be in post Blanton-booty-kicking hubris, can stay in the lineup that way.
GoGomez looks like a Peanuts character swinging out of his shoes - then we see the poof of dust from the catcher’s mit - another strike, big surprise.
Young seems to have the Mauer Power. This is when you are good sized and it looks like you will be able to hit lots of HR’s then you work with mighty Joe Vavra and you can’t hit the ball without a 2 hop to the wall. Watch Redmond and see how the Vavra swing fundamentals work. there goes another trickle down the line. Also what does anyone think of naming your child Dick Trickle
As long as Punto’s amazing bat and gold glove fielding are in the lineup every day we have a chance at the playoffs!
ok i ripped Gomez in Spring Training and said that Pridie should be the CF to start the season, and everyone said i was crazy.
But then he can flying out of his slump and was an amazing hitter the last two weeks of spring training.
Now i might still be crazy, but I’m thinking a little more patience might help. He may be at the bottom of another slump right now and just about ready to turn it around. This could be how he is as a hitter… really high highs and really low lows. And I’ll agree last night was a really low low.
Just take a pitch. The coaching staff should give him the take sign every time up. It’s like he’s playing wiffle ball in the back yard and swinging at everything.
ITF: You have to admit that a four strikeout game from your leadoff guy is a bit hard to swallow. I’ve seen it since the beginning (and have mentioned it here before). Gomez doesn’t have much of a strategy to get on base, and when there are men on he gets over anxious and swings for the fences.
If that means he needs some time to cool down and get some less pressure ABs then so be it. I can live with Span in CF (or even Pridie) while Gomez works things out.
And why is everybody ragging on Span’s defense? He had a fluke misplay that put a ball over the fence…so did Hunter. Gomez has a cannon with no aim in center that has given runners extra bases.
The funniest part is that at the beginning of the season everybody was certain it should be Pridie…and now nobody wants to see Gomez leave.
As far as Young vs. Gomez. Young is struggling, but then so is Monroe, so is Lamb, and so is Mauer. The difference is all of those hitters have major league experience behind them (some more than others) that can speak to their MLB potential more so than Gomez.
And to jimmy bee, who gives us such gems as:
Howard’s blog sucks taco sauce
Are you a bot? Because you posted that same “joke” elsewhere already.
Posted this in the wrong thread:
Gomez is in a slump. This is his second slump of the year. The last one lasted 10 at bats, and everyone said “send him down”. Then he hit in five straight games with two two-hit games and people stopped calling for his head. Let’s see how he adjusts to the slump before we start calling for his demotion.
len3 is there a chance the tiwns could get a short term tutor to work with gomez?
Couldn’t agree more, Joe C. Thanks for taking a strong stance!
Wow, just caught thrylos’s post.
unlike Mr Redmond, Cuddyer, Span, Everett, Punto, etc.
Cuddyer’s been out of the lineup since the first week of the season. So yeah, it’d be a bit difficult for him to contribute.
gobbledygookguy says:
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:27 pm
len3 is there a chance the tiwns could get a short term tutor to work with gomez?
Vavra time. Personal project to show the potential of Vavra
gomez is not in a slump…he lacks the ability to do certain things with a bat…there is a big difference
gomez needs to learn and practice, practic e and practice…you dont normally do that at the major league level
Sorry Joe C, the thought of Span leading off makes me ill.
I am ok with a day off, but demotion is crazy imo. He has helped this club win a lot of games this year. He is raw, but I believe he will grow faster at the MLB level. He needs to see these nasty breaking balls to learn how to approach them.
Tolbert batting leadoff? Span in the 9 hole?
I think it’s funny that the same people who are bashing Gomez for being over-aggressive are bashing Mauer and Cuddyer for being under-aggressive.
“Gomez in the minors would be terrible and I would be bored stiff without watching him.”
Then you’re not really a Twins fan, are you?
Harris leading off, Gomez in the 9?
Span was another Vavra prodigy. Just give GoGoGomez to Vavavara
“If he can’t develop in 20 games he will never develop.”
Huh?!!??!
Tolbert SS
Harris 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Kubel RF
Young LF
Monroe DH
Punto 3B
Gomez CF
FYI:
Nothing special about F-Mart, Tabata, or Jackson in the AA clash of the titans last night here in Binghamton.
SethSpeaks says:
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:37 pm
“Gomez in the minors would be terrible and I would be bored stiff without watching him.”
Then you’re not really a Twins fan, are you?
I also like the Dodgers. I am an import not of true Minnesota blood.
thrylos
I think Gomez’s Slugging % is very skewed though. It’s not like these doubles he is hitting are line drives off the wall. They are bloop singles that, with his speed, he is turning into doubles. Plus he fact that the kid can’t take a walk is a big negative as a lead off hitter. Look at Gomez’s stats over the last 10 games and you will see why people are suggesting a demotion.
“The Twins are going to regret not signing Corey Patterson when they had the chance”
Kind of like the Reds, and Wayne Krivsky, regret signing him now?!
Swawn in binghamton
I think that Tolbert would be a better leadoff hitter slightly… Harris would be good but Tolbert appears to be more patient and a little faster
Why is that funny Seth? Are you saying that one person is incapable of obvserving both over- and under-aggresiveness? There’s a happy medium I believe
Tolbert SS
Harris 2B
Mauer DH
Morneau 1B
Young LF
Kubel RF
Monroe CF
Lamb 3B
Red C
I would roll this out for tonights game.
Seth
I think the difference between Mauer and Gomez is that the Twins are batting Mauer in the 3 hole where they need him to produce some runs. Gomez is a lead off hitter who is probably one of the fastest guys in the league. If he had an extra 5 walks his OBP would look a lot more managable.
I think Harris has a little more of a track record hitting wise. Tolbert has started well, but can he keep it up?
I doubt that sending Gomez down to Rochester will do much for his confidence or his ability to hit a slider. Why not buy him a ticket to spend 2 weeks with Rod Carew in Compton. Who better to show him how to make contact at the major league level?
Seth is a prodigy of the Joe Vavra hitting and fundamentals school
I am not sure if a player has ever existed that didn’t look terrible over the course of a 10 game stretch. David Ortiz would be in A ball if you used that logic.
Yes, I know Oritz can’t be compared to Gomez, but you get the point. 10 games is nothing.
Now, saying that I do realize this guy has a lot ot work on. He isn’t a great hitter yet, but he has shown a lot of flashes.
Also, the comment about the bloop hits is not valid imo. He has hit lots of hard balls this year, in fact I would argue his bunt singles and bunt attempts bring down his slugg %. He can drive the ball, his problem is plate discipline.
“I think the difference between Mauer and Gomez is that the Twins are batting Mauer in the 3 hole where they need him to produce some runs. ”
But Mauer has won a batting title and done plenty that there is no reason for him to change the type of hitter he was. I wonder if Tony Gwynn was bashed this much for being an ‘average’ hitter rather than hitting for power.
Keep Gomez up. Even if he doesn’t start, awesome as a pinch runner and defensive purposes.
i’d bet there aren’t many pitchers in aaa that can throw a slider/curve on the outside corner like gomez has been seeing. if they can they’d be in the majors.
not sure if Span is the right choice. lets let Monroe play center and let Kubel hit the DH spot everyday. This way both guys get more work in AAA.Span is none the better in my eyes. Give them both some more time and they will be good players.
Both Mauer and Gomez’s slumps started when Mauer was moved back to the #3 hole.
Seth- But Mauer is no Mike Piazza
GoGo isn’t right now.
He seems anxious at the plate - chasing too many pitches, trying to hit the ball three miles, etc. Last night was particularly awful at the plate.
HOWEVER - there’s no formula for how to handle it.
It’s a given that Gomez is green, that he needs work - - - and that the Twins decided they’d train him up here instead of sending him to Rochester. In other words, the plan anticipated that Gomez might struggle.
If that’s the plan, then you don’t send him down simply because he’s struggling; there has to be some other factor which says “we’re not developing him up here.”
What might that be?
Is he being thick-headed about instruction? If he is, that’s not part of the plan … and a trip to Rochester might be the antidote.
But what if he isn’t?
What if he’s trying to do everything Gardy & Vavra are asking him to do, what if his attitude & effort are good?
What if the stuff they’re working on is, quite simply, hard - especially when the kid’s trying to learn it on the fly?
If he’s making the effort, if his attitude is good, if the only problem is we’re not getting the results we’d like yet, then wouldn’t it be better to reward the effort by sticking with it a while longer make more sense than punishing the lack of results by sending him down?
When you give someone a job based upon POTENTIAL, as opposed to demonstrated ability, you can’t switch the measuring stick to “performance” after 20 games.
To do so would amount to double-crossing the kid.
ok… lets get this straight…
in the last 15 games or so that cuddy wasnt here he batted that low.. whos been the guy in back of him? harris or tolbert. .. why would someone pitch a good pitch to gomez when someone that isnt good is behind him? wait for cuddy to come back.. let mauer be in the 2 hole again… then tell me gomez isnt doing good.. he really hasnt had a good bat in back of him which is why he doesnt get good pitches
Gomez looks like he is swinging a barbell at the ball causing him to cork screw his body into the dirt
trinitwin
Yeah, Mauer needs to be moved to the 2-hole again, try Young in the 3-hole, we have yet to do that during the regular season I think.
All Kenny Lofton does is hit .285 and score runs!
Move Mauer out of the top three. I’d go…
Harris - 2b
Tolbert - ss
Cuddyer - rf
Morneau - 1b
Young - lf
Mauer - c
Kubel - dh
Gomez - cf
Lamb - 3b
Seth
I’m not bashing Mauer as much as I am upset with Gardy for batting Mauer 3rd. I’m not crazy, Mauer is a good contact hitter that fits perfectly in the #2 spot. But if you are going to bat him 3rd he should probably change his approach at the plate a little and try to drive the ball a little more, that is all. I think the hitters mentality should change a little when they are hitting in a different spot in the lineup. If you are hitting lead off you aren’t going to approach AB’s the same as if you were a clean up hitter would you?
Short of the first game of the season when the kid was playing on pure adrenaline, he really hasn’t done anything for us offensively. Personally, I’m already growing tired of watching him attempt to bunt his way on in almost every at bat. Granted, if he reaches, he’s almost a sure thing to steal second. But that’s the problem - he doesn’t get on base!
While Gomez has the potential of being a very exciting player down the road, he must learn how to hit at the big league level. If the coaches think he’ll benefit by improving his mechanics in Rochester, I’m sure they’ll do that. If they believe he’s better off working through it with the Twins, that’s fine too.
Either way, he has to figure out the art of hitting to have any shot at a big league career. Currently, he appears way over his head. To say he’s in a slump is ridiculous. A slump assumes he once COULD hit. We know from his scouting report and from what we’ve seen through three weeks of the season, he clearly cannot. Time will tell, I guess.
Seth,
I think the Reds regret signing Krivsky
lion,
“why would someone pitch a good pitch to gomez when someone that isnt good is behind him?”
BETTER QUESTION
why would someone pitch a good pitch to gomez when he will chase bad pitches, anyway. (anywhere, anytime)
Gomez should step into a few pitches ala Craig Biggio and use that to get on base
“Harris - 2b
Tolbert - ss
Cuddyer - rf
Morneau - 1b
Young - lf
Mauer - c
Kubel - dh
Gomez - cf
Lamb - 3b”
LOL! im not even going to get started on whats wrong with that lineup…
Why are people above putting Harris in the #8 and #9 slot? Is that the typically spot for the player withe best BA and OBP?!?
Maybe they should wait untill Gomez goes on a Jacque Jones like 0-64 slump before moving him down in the order or giving him a day off.
sane yesterday you said you are in So-Cal. Where are you at? I am a Pasadena and Glendora local
sane,
ok you got me there… i cant argue that 
ok well instead of talking about the bad news lets talk about good news!!!
JARED ALLEN IS NOW A VIKING!!!!!! WOOT
PURPLE PEOPLE EATERS HERE WE COME!!!!
Gomez could try what Ricky Henderson used to do and stand in a very very very low crouch almost unable to have a strike called against him
Young at #3 works for me. That also creates the military order, left-right-left.
other than i think they gave up one too many #3s…. i am excited about the Jared Allen trade lion
seth there are a lot of people on here that think mauer is somehow going to metamorphosis into ken griffy jr.
mauer is what he is!
Joe Mauer is no Mike Piazza
“But Mauer is no Mike Piazza”
Who has said he is?
I also find it funny that suddenly today everyone wants Monroe in the lineup!
Joe Mauer has probably never been on XM 41 the boneyard jimmy?
Go with the hot bat.
jimmybee,
Long Beach-Lakewood.
Jama - I am of the opinion that a hitter shouldn’t change his hitting philosophy based on spot in the lineup.
If Mauer is batting third and there is a runner on 2B, I want him to knock him in. If there is nobody on base, his job is to get on base. Either way, we don’t want him to get out.
If Mauer is batting second and there is a runner on 2B, I want him to knock him in. If there is nobody on base, his job is to get on base. Either way, we don’t want him to get out.
Mike Piazza is the best offensive catcher ever. Joe Mauer is no Mike Piazza
sane- Cool deal. Get some Del Taco for me. I had to move because it was to bloody expensive but I haaaate the winters. I used to live in SGV San Gabriel and then Glendora.
BD,
“If that’s the plan, then you don’t send him down simply because he’s struggling”.
There is a difference between struggling and dying. Gomez looks like he has gone past the struggling phase.
How about Punto to the minors where he can use his grit and fake bunting skills….or trade him to the KC Chiefs for a 9th rounder.
nice at bat in the 7th…strike looking, strike looking, strike looking.
Can you say Denny HOCKING!!!!!
jimmybee,
July-August in the San Gabriel Valley is also hell, but that’s two months, not six months.
I believe I said repeatedly and repeatedly and nobody cared and nobody still does, but I’ll repeat it again for fun. Rhyme with me.
AAA in May.
I really thought he would make it to May, but you only have to watch him one game to see how ridiculously raw he is.
Send Gomez down. He has SO much polishing to do on his game, with SO much upside, that it’d be nearly a crime for the Twins to ruin him by rushing him along too fast. Give Craig Monroe a shot in Center, and adjust the lineup to:
1 Mauer
2 Harris
3 Morneau
4 Cuddyer
5 Kubel
6 Young
7 Monroe
8 Lamb
9 Tolbert
Morneau is our best all-around hitter and hits purely enough to all fields to handle the 3. Flip Cuddy and Young if/once Young’s bat comes around. Mauer can’t start a game a double play, Harris moves him around, and you’ve got workmanlike mashers 3-7. It works better for us this season, and it works better for Gomez in the long run, b/c he’ll polish his (impressive) raw tools.
Gomez does need a game or two off I agree but he needs to stay in the #1 spot. He leads the team in SB’s 2B’s and 3B’s.
Okay…let me get this straight:
People are advocating sending Joe Mauer to AAA because he isn’t a first-pitch free-swinger.
Joe Mauer…2006 Batting Champion Joe Mauer….312 Lifetime Batting Average Joe Mauer…288 Batting Average in his “slump” of 2008 Joe Mauer…
My god, people need a life.
Anybody know what the job differance is between a #2 hitter and a #3 hitter in the lineup?
None.
They both are supposed to advance the runner.
“Oh, but the #2 hitter is supposed to be willing to give himself up, and the #3 hitter is supposed to have more power”. Fine. So when Cuddy comes back move Mauer to the #2 spot and put Cuddy in at #3. You don’t want to line up all your lefties and righties for the opponant to pick apart with their bullpen either.
Gomez definitely needs a day off but sending him down is a joke. Span offers little or nothing. Also, sometimes there are guys who have one part of the game that is so ridiculously good that they need to be in the majors. A pitcher with 100 MPH heat doesn’t need to learn an offspeed pitch in the minors. He can just rely on the heat. So we bring him up. Go-go can take some lumps at the plate in the majors his D and speed are major league.
Gomez has had a rough week, but he’s also been very good at times. When he’s on he’s dynamic and changes the whole game for the Twins. I’d rather see him in the leadoff spot than more mediocre players like Span.
That said if he struggles for the next month he will need to be sent down. I just don’t see how you can send a player down because of one bad stretch. Gomez was horrible for the first week and a half of the spring then suddenly came alive for the rest of the spring and played his way onto the team.
At worst I think the Twins should try him in the nine hole before shipping him to the minors, but lets give him another couple weeks in the leadoff spot to see if he can turn things around a bit. We shouldn’t be in panic mode just yet.
Jack in the Box >>>> Del Taco.
I don’t think GoGo has a bad attitude, bad ego or is unteachable… he asked Gardy if he’d be mad at him if he swung at the first pitch for gosh sakes! Let him learn…
Robimus - you can make that argument about Morneau when he goes 0 for 13 to start the year, or when Mauer is batting 220 after two weeks. When a player looks lost, totally out of his class, like Gomez does, it’s a different story. It’s not going to get better for him unless he’s tutored, and AAA is the place for that, NOT the big leagues.
what about putting D. Young in center when Cuddyer comes back, put Kubel in LF and sign Frank Thomas to a short term deal. Doesn’t that make a little sense? At least until Gomez learns to hit a slider? Then you could have Kubel/Monroe/Thomas switching at DH, LF and CF (Thomas would obviously just play DH). When Kubel/Monroe split games, you could move Monroe into CF and move D. Young back over to LF. At least we would’ve have to deal with the OBP of Span and Gomez…
I’m pretty sure the most important stat for a leadoff hitter is runs scored. Or if you want to get technical R/AB. OPB is only useful to diagnose and predict who might be able to produce those runs or why he’s not.
Other than that you want you leadoff guy to take a few pitches.
#2 needs have great bat control. Few SO’s, few DP’s, and if there is a speedster on first he needs to be able to take a few pitches as well without a strike out. Harris as well as he’s doing now is terrible at any of the skills needed for those two spots.
Actually we don’t have anyone well suited for those two spots, that was the big problem last year. Tolbert and span (plus dare I say the 2006 version of LNP) are the only two that can handle those spots on this team. Go-Go is the future at LO but maybe better suited for 9 until he gets better control of the strike zone, and actually he doesn’t need to be a great technician with the bat, he just needs contact and his speed will take care of the stats.
And as usual when you break down the stats into situational Mauer is the best at any spot except 4 and 5. But I don’t like him at 1 or 2. If you go with the sit stats I think you go span, tolbert, mauer, kubel/morny, kubel/morny, young, lamb-buscher,harris, Go-Go. but that lineup is short sighted. so last years problem continues.
rotrhed- Jack in the crack 2 tacos for $.99
How does a baseball writer overlook the fact the guy he is advocating replace Gomez has WORSE numbers? Span is a bit player. Probably a little better than Lew Ford but come on. The biggest flaw in the logic is that it even matters. The Twins will finish in 4th place in the division with Gomez in the lineup or in Rochester either way. Give the kid a chance to learn on the job.
sane- breathe in the healthy August Foothill Transit bus fumes for me
in 99 a 23 yr old played 10 gms, 20 ab, 12 so, ave .000!
david ortiz! and we did give up on him would we like a do over?
No better way to spend $.99 imo
When Cuddy comes back it should be Young in LF, Monroe in CF, Cuddy in RF,Frank Thomas at DH, and Spann as the defensive replacement, and send Gomez to the minors to work on his game, he is only twenty two. Wait, I forgot we don’t need Frank Thomas, just like we didn’t need him in 06′.
Molitor
Gardy
C. Davis
Winfield
Hrbek
J. White
Lavelle
Pags
Gagne
Joe C.
I love how people always post random lineups. That is a lineup I would pay to see. I imagine Joe C. as a pretty good 2B, and Lavelle would Catch. Fill in the rest we you want give me those two and we can play.
“People are advocating sending Joe Mauer to AAA”
Not PEOPLE, just one fool.
Why do people assume one month with Carew or Molitor would fix Gomez?
Aready tried it - they called it spring training - it didn’t work!
Why are Carew and Molitor automatically great hitting coaches? They’re not - They were great HITTERS.
Not the same thing.
Richie Allen would have been a great hitting coach also.
Except he never spoke.
I meant Gardy at 2B and Joe C. Pitching
The Frank Thomas talk surprises me. He is only useful when hitting a HR. He is so slow on the bases and a bad guy in the clubhouse. If he took the minimum and agreed to be a pinch hitter, i could see it. But he thinks he can still play.
Jimmy Bee. Do you think the Twins should sign Mike Piazza as the starting catcher for today’s team? If not, thanks for stating the obvious several times today. I now feel dumber from reading this blog.
Sorry, I meant Kubel in LF, Young in CF, Cuddy in RF, and Monroe as the backup outfielder. My BAD!
Seth, did you just compare Mauer (mr injury, one great year) to one of the best hitters of all time?
Count me as someone who is willing to give Gomez a little more time.He is over matched right now, but I think after just three weeks, sending him down would send the wrong message.If by this time in May he is still showing no improvement then you might have to do something.Remember a lot of people her,including me, have ripped the Twins (Gardenhire)for being impatient with guys like Cuddy and Kubel when they were younger.
I am not a Span fan and don’t quite get his promotion over Pridie, who has more tools IMO and better minor league stats from last year.Furthermore Gardenhire made it a point in spring training to say that IF Pridie made the roster it would be as a reserve outfielder (he playd all three postions in ST).So Cuddy gets hurt and Span gets called up to play rightfield,a postion he has never played.Not very fair to Span.In ST Gomez moved to RF when both Span and he were in the line up.
I guess I can understand it if your just throwig Span a bone for being in your system for six years,a cup of coffee so to speak,but if its just to try and save face because he is turning out to be another failed first round pick, spare me.Give Me Pridie in May if/when Gomez needs to be sent down.
Richie Allen would have been a great hitting coach also.
Except he never spoke.
my dad is a good friend of Dick Allen’s. Funny thing is he actually liked the horse races way more then baseball. He is down in FLA right now I hear
Alex Johnson would have been a great hitting coach.
He ABSOLUTELY never spoke - only growled.
Yo Jared tough guy, did not mean to be so obvious I don’t spend 24 hours a day on a blog. I am just bored at work. Sorry 7 out of 10.
Span might be bating lower, but he has not been given nearly the opportunities as Gomez. Look I am not saying Gomez doesn’t have potential, but you are a fool to say his belongs in the majors right now. Let’s face it the real reason that Gomez is up because the Twins wanted to get the fans a little excied after trading Santana, but take the names off the back of the jerseys Gomez would not be playing in the majors. As for Ellsbury, I never once said anything about his agent, I was talking about him vs Gomez and being only 2 yrs older, he looks years better than him. Numbers don’t lie someone said Gomez has potential to hit 10-15 HR’s a year, Ellsbury will hi 10+ this year. He has only 1 less stolen base. But the big difference is 3 fold 308 avg compared to Gomez’s 230 avg. His OBP is 456 compared to Gomez 247 and the most important number Gomez is striking out 1 in 3.65 at bats and Ellsbury 1 in 10. So all you lovers of Gomez don’t lose sleep when he is nothing better than a 260-270 hitter with 10 hrs a year 10 yrs from now.
Mickey Hatcher or Eddie Murray would have made good hitting coaches
Is there really such thing as a great hitting coach. Anybody name one, and I don’t want a great hitter who is now a hitting coach. I want someone to back up why this hitting coach is so great and who he molded into an all-star.
Dick Allen’s famous quote about astroturf.
“If horses won’t eat it, I don’t want to play on it”
WC Fields on drinking water.
“If fish f— in it, I won’t drink it.”
sane it may not fix him but it may help with his approach to his at bats which may in turn improve his hitting skills.
your guy vavra (the greatest coach in major league history, some say) has 13 guys to work with not enough time in the day to help them all. use a tutor works on occasion in schools, can’t hurt i don’t think anyway.
sane I just like the book “Crash”. I have all sorts of Dick Allen stuff from the “Equitable Old Timers Games” that he gave my dad for me to have. He loves Hollywood Park and Santa Anita
sane
Carlos Gomez on hitting
“If it doesn’t go over the catchers head i’ll take a hack at it”
“Cho uh on nuh baa.” That’s what Tony O. would tell Gomez.
Here’s former Met, Felix Millan, showing us all how Gomez needs to hold the bat:
Jamie try to have a fact or something interesting to say in one of your posts. Also, I have been on this blog about 18 minutes today and I am also at work.
Gomez is struggling, but I think the Twins must live and die with him. He is the main piece of a deal for arguably the best pitcher in baseball. Unless he is hitting under .100 he has to be up with the club. Hunter Pence from the Astros is off to a slow start, so is CC Sabathia from the Indians. Is Houston or Cleveland supposed to send these guys down? People forget the good with this guy. He has basically won 3 games for the Twins including the game on Sunday where he made that unbelieveable catch to save the game. He has 9 sb’s and is playing superb dare I say Torii like defense with a better arm than Hunter. Lets not put a fork in him yet.
Now people want to put Monroe in CF? Any idea how much worst we get defensively?
Gomez has been pretty special in CF defensively.
isn’t mickey hatcher a coach for the angels?
Jared zz,
Walt Hriniak and Charley Lau pioneered the weight BEHIND the back foot stance/swing which made George Brett into a great hitter and either Carew copied it or independently adopted it.
Carew was the “Man of a Thousand Stances”.
Gomez is the main piece to the deal right now, but I think Guerra is the one with the highest ceiling.
Ah, boo hoo, Gomez has had some bad games. I hate whiny blogs, so unoriginal.
The New and Improved Craig says:Here’s former Met, Felix Millan, showing us all how Gomez needs to hold the bat:
http://mattspenandpaperheroes.com/scans/Felix-Millan.gif
Perfect, and I couldn’t even guess where this came from ha hah ahhah hahha
gobble,
I think those guys could help Gomez also.
I’m just not sure either is “The Miracle Worker” that we all wish they were.
I’ve always thought Mike R. should be in the lineup more often when he is not catching. His BA is has always been better than any of the DH’s.
“I’m pretty sure the most important stat for a leadoff hitter is runs scored. Or if you want to get technical R/AB. OPB is only useful to diagnose and predict who might be able to produce those runs or why he’s not.”
Runs are a statistic wholly dependent upon the hitters behind you (except in the case of a HR). Therefore, getting on base is the single most important characteristic WITHIN THE CONTROL of the leadoff hitter. A hitter who is on base frequently will likely translate this into runs, assuming there is some semblance of hitting behind him. Similarly, you cannot bash a #3 or #4 hitter for not knocking in runs when the jokers in the leadoff spots aren’t getting on base with consistency (see the Twins, for example).
what blog isn’t whiny?
Mickey Hatcher is the Angels batting coach.
Sane. Cool man. I’ve never heard that before. I always though Carew was very intovative. In a way you could say just about everyone uses that stance to some degree these days unless your Tony Bautista.
(I was quoting Kurt from above, re: the notion that runs are the most important stat for a leadoff hitter)
Hatcher is a good hitting Coach then. How about Eddie Murray
Don’t send Gomez down just yet. The Twins play the White Sox on April 29th and 30th. I want to watch Ozzie laugh hysterically while Gomez swings. What could be funnier than that?
yeah, at least Eddie Murphy might make us laugh
the new and improved criag: What about this stance for Go Go Gomez
http://static.baseballtoaster.com/blogs/u/cardboardgods/2007/0411/0001/The_two_pepes_1080.jpg
sane i guess it seems logical to me if you have a valuable asset with possibly great potential you give it what ever special attention it needs to develop. imo a hitting coach can’t do that when he has 13 guys to worry about no matter how good he is.
if i recall mickey hatcher was a half bubble out of plumb?
jaredzz,
Carew was innovative.
But there are only so many creative things you can do batting without duplicating something that has already been done.
Why not bat Mauer in the lead-off spot? He has a high OB, isn’t a real power threat and has good enough speed to swipe some bags. Keep Span on the 25 man and start Monroe in center. You could give Span spot duty or play matchups.
(line-up with Monroe in CF)
Mauer - C
Harris - 2B
Cuddy - RF
Morneau - 1B
Young - LF
Kubel - DH
Monroe - CF
Lamb - 3B
Tollbert/Punto - SS
(Line-up with Span in CF)
Span - CF
Mauer - C
Cuddy - RF
Morneau - 1B
Young - LF
Kubel/Monroe (depending on pitcher) - DH
Lamb - 3B
Harris - 2B
Tollbert/Punto - SS
jimmy,
Man, guys were skinny back then. Pepe Frias’ Latin Afro, was almost as wide as his shoulders.
gobble,
Its now a whole bubble and growing.
Funny that I don’t hear these comments when Morneau, Kubel or Monroe are going 0-5. This youngster will improve with more experience in the bigs. I’ve seen it many times (Torii, for instance). More credit should be given to the defensive part of the game. It may not sell tickets, but think about how many hits and runs are prevented by players like Gomez. If our so-called big bats were more consistent, it wouldn’t matter if a young, good defensive player wasn’t hitting yet.
who ever said amphetamines were not being used back then is crazy
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/features/1997/swinginas/1974/images/pirates.jpg
we some characters on the coaching staff, hatcher, don zimmer, yogi berra. don’t you think in chicago they have a lot more fun with ozzie around?
i know get mickey rivers to coach!
jimmy,
I think the skinny little Latino player disappeared when the Venezuelan and Dominican moms found out the HGH, not Wheaties, was the true breakfast of champions. You have to know what to feed your son.
gobbledygookguy Tommy Lasorda already retired
They don’t build em like that anymore that’s for sure
jimmy,
Haha,
Is that Kent Tekulve?
Gomez was looking better when Cuddyer was still traveling with the team. Last few days is when he looks lost. Coincidence?
The New and Improved Craig says- yes indeed. That was one of my best friends favorite players while growing up
maybe it was cuddy’s magic tricks?
“Gomez was looking better when Cuddyer was still traveling with the team. Last few days is when he looks lost. Coincidence?”
Yes.
ETJ,
“Funny that I don’t hear these comments when Morneau, Kubel or Monroe are going 0-5.”
Its not the 0-5.
Its the helplessness of the swing and failure to adjust on the slider away.
The other three guys have much more experience in adjusting to pitchers who are adjusting to them.
Gomez has a pitch that currently owns him and he will see little else until he can make that first adjustment. If he can’t, the pitchers don’t have to make any adjustment.
Its slider, slider, slider, Adios Amigo!
If our lead-off guy isn’t on base, who are our big bats supposed to drive in? It isn’t just the 0-5, it is the OB% that kills us.
2 great catches doesn’t make him a gold-glover yet either.
Walt Heriniak was the hitting coach for the Chi White Sox during the years of big Frank and Robin Ventura. Sox were great while he was around in the early 90’s. Modern inventor of “flattening the hands at impact”. That’s why Frank Thomas has such a goofy looking swing though.
Everyone thank you and have a great evening and I am leaving work now. Go Twins!!!
How about getting Rod Carew or Paul Molitor (or both) in for a little private hitting instruction for Gomez? If the guy could learn to be more selective and slap the ball down in front of the plate he could hit for tremendous potential average. He definitely has world class speed and wreaks havoc when he gets on base.
Gomez has been terrible in the field, too. Unfortunately, too many fans judge defense by highlight plays. Yes, Gomez made a great play on Sunday to save a win, but the rest of the time he’s taking terrible angles on balls in the gap and missing cutoff men left and right. He’s turned several singles into doubles and doubles into triples. If you haven’t been able to see that you’re not paying attention.
I don’t know this, but I would bet that Gomez does things correctly in drills.
After the National Anthem, his adrenalin takes control and he can’t stay calm enough to repeat what he does in drills. I have see that kind of behavior a million times. (even in myself)
I’m just guessing with Gomez, but he doesn’t look calm to me.
ETJ: actually, a lot of people have been calling for Monroe’s head. And, Mauer and Morneau aren’t rookies, they have a proven track record.
Gomez was considered AAA ready when they traded for him. It’s like everyone forgot that he was rushed through the Mets’ system, that every expert said he needed more polish. He should have started in AAA. The question now is, where will he get better, MLB or AAA? I don’t know the answer for sure, but I’d give him 2 more weeks or so before I decided.
He does need a day off.
T,
re: Cuddyer,
he had almost as many AB total as Punto has now, before his injury, and he produced less than Punto. That made me include him in the list.
You people are all wrong. Gomez is the Twins´most exciting player. With a better manager and coaches he could be a star.
Thats because Punto is a producin’ machine so far this year.
Gera Rosy,
You are in love!
Another issue about Gomez is that this coaching staff and manager show a gross inability to communicate to latin american players (see Liriano for example.) Unless something changes in this respect, this organization will be unable to sign and/or retain latin american talent (see Ortiz for example). I don’t get the fact that there is not a single Spanish speaking coach in a team that has 3 commonly accepted inept coaches (Stelly, Vavra, Ulger). The days he is not starting, Livan Hernandez is practically acting as a bench coach…
They shouldn’t even consider sending him down over Span. Gomez can at least change a game, Span on the other hand doesn’t have that.
Also, Go-Go made one bad play that I remember and that was the angle he took in Chicago. Other than that, he has played solid defense…
Go Go can really pick it in the field and saved Sunday’s game by that diving catch. As un-nerving as it is to see him chasing so many sliders and striking out so much, he should stay. I would be in favor of a one day benching and even maybe two but not sending him down.
thrylos98: i think there is something to what you’re saying. it seems like we have been latin light for a long time and a of lot latin players have come and gone none stay.
“Gomez has been terrible in the field, too. Unfortunately, too many fans judge defense by highlight plays. Yes, Gomez made a great play on Sunday to save a win, but the rest of the time he’s taking terrible angles on balls in the gap and missing cutoff men left and right. He’s turned several singles into doubles and doubles into triples. If you haven’t been able to see that you’re not paying attention.”
What Chazz wrote is worth repeating.
Seth,
re: Monroe,
I’ve been complaining about his underutilization since the beginning of the year and especially when Gardy has been using Span over him after Cuddyer went down…
new craig is it time to trade morneau for pitching and playing punto at 1st?
“thrylos98: i think there is something to what you’re saying. it seems like we have been latin light for a long time and a of lot latin players have come and gone none stay.”
No pay, no stay, Amigo.
Gomez commits to swinging before the pitcher gets the sign from the catcher. Send him down and make him do pushups for strikeouts or popouts ala Willie Mays Hayes.
“new craig is it time to trade morneau for pitching and playing punto at 1st?”
How could Punto play 1st? He’s never played there. That would be ridiculous.
The New Craig loves Morny, and doesn’t want to trade him. He loves to watch Morny run the bases, and do the scoop at 1st.
gomez has made some unbelivable catches out there, some I would have never imagined seeing again after torri left. but his battting stance bugs me, its too wide and he has no patience to draw a walk. With his speed, he should be concerned with contact only and not power. With his speed a dribbler to 3rd can result in a single with one fielding misstep.
punto is so good he could play any where, gardy’s most valuable player!
Yes, please send Gomez down. For everyone criticizing Span: how would you know?? He hasn’t had his shot. I say give it to him. Plenty of players have gone down and made the most of it. Remember Baker? He came back a different guy. Gomez needs serious work on his hitting. He should not be doing it in the majors.
Monroe said Young has been talking about hitting HR, according to an mlb.com article. That could be Delmon’s problem. He has started swinging for the fences. That won’t work.
Delmon is a big powerful guy with warning track power, much like former Twin, Gene Larkin. Delmon needs to go back to hitting line drives and lots of doubles. That is what he does well.
mj1 you’re in serious denial if you think the Twins have a chance at winning the World Series this year. And you’re telling me I need to wake up? OMG you’re hilarious! Go through their lineup including pitching and tell me that they have an honest chance this year. We’re a few years away from anything resembling a championship. Grow up and layoff the Twins-flavored kool-aid. I’ve been a Twins since I was a kid but I can be realistic - clearly unlike you.
The Twins are a serious contender this year. Yes, 2008. No team in the AL Central, is very impressive, including the Twins. Once a team gets to the playoffs, anything can happen. The Twins have a real chance to go all the way.
Wade, I realize OBP is most popularly touted as ‘the stat’ for lead off. And I realize that runs scored is somewhat dependent on the batters that follow. But the goal isn’t to get on base its to score. That involves more than just getting on base. It involves getting into scoring position and being able to take an extra base. It involves being able to score from first on a base hit. So it’s a much more complicated equation than simply asking who gets on base the most. When comparing players with all other factors being equal certainly OBP becomes the most important stat. But the thing with Gomez is that nothing else is equal. He doesn’t have to be on base as much as another guy to score the same number of times. So yes, runs scored is the most important stat, if that doesn’t give you the answer than look to OBP.
Look at the most prolific players in the runs scored category and you’ll find HR hitters and guys that steal a lot of bases in some cases they do both.
There are very few with good OBP’s that don’t hit HR’s or steal bases that score a lot of runs. That should be a clue.
Can Punto pitch middle relief?
Gomez should sit tonight-but not send him down.
I am still waiting for Tolbert to get back into the lineup. Hopefully his bat hasn’t cooled off.
Joe, Good post. Someone needed to say it as clear as you did. I don’t think Go-Go would be on the big league roster if the Twins brass didn’t think they needed someone on the roster to show fans from the Johan deal. Like most everyone else I think Go-Go has a ton of potential, but he is clearly getting frustrated at the plate.
Give him a day off. Move him down in the order to take some pressure off of him. Something.
I like Steve’s lineup idea above. Mauer is the best OBP guy. And if Gomez is with the club, he can be swapped in the lineup with Monroe….
Mauer - C
Harris - 2B
Cuddy - RF
Morneau - 1B
Young - LF
Kubel - DH
Monroe - CF
Lamb - 3B
Tollbert/Punto - SS
I predict this is the Twins lineup tonight:
Span, Tolbert, Mauer, Morneau, Young, Kubel, Monroe, Lamb, Punto.
Gardy likes Mauer and Morneau, 3 and 4, and so do I. I hope it stays that way after Cuddyer returns.
I think the question becomes at what point does Gardenhire bite his tongue and admit that Jason Pridie is his best immediate option in centerfield. Considering Baseball America praised his defense in center, it still puzzles me some that he didn’t get more of a look out there in Spring Training.
Joe C said:
“Gomez leads the AL with nine stolen bases. He’s made two very nice diving catches, including a potential game saver on Sunday against Cleveland”
That’s pretty lame praise. It wasn’t a potential game saver on Sunday. It was THE game saver. Everyone acknowledged that, including players. And no present or former twin makes that play, including Hunter. Because none of them ran that fast.
To say he’s made “two very nice diving catches”? Again, lame praise. The kid has already run down balls in each alley and to the fences that only a few elite athletes would have been able to get to.
But, I get the point that you are trying to make that he is overmatched at the plate right now and so you wouldn’t want to enhance too much his other assets.
I see no problem in sitting Gomez once in a while. But, what he mostly needs is someone that can communicate with him — tell him what he is doing wrong and what he needs to do to fix it. I also think batting 9th in the order for a while would deliver a message.
With the high ceiling for this kid, there is no reason he can’t have a personal hitting coach for the year. Probably someone who speaks his language and knows hitting.
The kid will be a stud star. I’d like to see it sooner than later. The problem with sending him down is that he will get confident hitting mediocre fast balls from pitchers who can’t throw sliders across the plate.
I would definitely keep him up here with once a week or so on the bench. And someone needs to work with him.
Three weeks in, our 22 yr. old CF has one good week, one average week, and one bad week. Has anyone seen what Pie is doing for the Cubs, or Jones for the Orioles?? They haven’t made the impact Gomez has. He is the 4th youngest player in the American League. Except for King Felix, Joba, and Billy Butler, no one is doing very well yet. That includes Delmon, the 8th youngest in the league. Lets not start to panic quite yet. A couple two hit games and he’ll be back on track. It could be worse, we could have replaced Torii with Andruw Jones
Jewscott,
it was fairly upsetting seeing Span come up over Pridie when Cuddy went down. And it was ever more upsetting seeing Span take ABs from Monroe when he was up, but:
Pridie can be a very serviceable ML outfielder (think the equivalent of Harris in the outfield, who btw has been the best 2B the Twins had since Knob), he just does not have the range and the arm of Gomez in the outfield nor his speed. We are talking about a 22 year old phenom, who is the fastest player in the majors, leads the majors in stolen bases, routinely turns singles into doubles and plays great defense and has some very obvious kinks to work out vs. a vanilla serviceable player. The issue is that the Twins field staff need to make sure that he reaches his potential (same with Liriano btw). At this point, they have not convinced me that they are ready, interested to do it, or even know how to do it. So instead of blaming Gomez, I blame Gardy and his staff about what we see on Gomez’ ABs…
when the psyche of a young ball player is on the rocks it’s scary.
The only thing that’s worse is when the other option is Denard Span.
I’d rather take a chance destroying Gomez mentally than putting Span in Centerfield for one inning of one game let alone starting him there.
It’s gotten irrational I realize this, but I cannot stand his game at all.
Carlos G,
what he mostly needs is someone that can communicate with him
That’s the whole point… The Twins staff cannot (or are not willing to do the work that takes to) communicate with him. Remember Gardy’s quote when he banged against the wall in spring training?
“I don’t know,” Gardenhire said. “I couldn’t understand a word he said. So I just said, ‘Come with me.’”
You know what, if you cannot ‘understand a word’ your players say, you don’t deserve to be a manager.
Period. Fair and simple.
What does “dangerously overmatched” mean? Does it mean that Gomez’s strikeouts may cost this team a playoff berth? Are you that delusional, Joe?
I don’t think the Twin’s front office gives a flying you know what if the fan’s wanted a player from the trade in the majors. I seriously doubt they used that rational to determine who was going to win us the most games. Gomez has already won atleast 3 games by himself with defense and speed, and was a major factor in almost all of our wins. Span?? Pridie?? I don’t think so. This is worse than all the spring training numbers b.s. 20 games, let’s over react. May as well can Lamb for the best AAA guy too. And how about that Young, ship him down, no bat there. And what about Boof, horrid 4 starts, time for somebody else. Liriano should go back to A ball until atleast July. Get these bums outta here before it too late, like May
Stupid article dont just ship him down he is doing some things well he is in a major slump right now lets get him the AB’s at the major league level its not like we have the complete team to compete with the indians sox and tigers hes going to be an elite CF by the day the new park opens
“major slump”
not even close… a major slump would be if he were hitless for a week or two. His “slump” in no worse than that of Cuddyer to begin the season…
GO GOGO GO
He has accounted for a major role in a some of the wins. I don’t think his confidence level is that affected. Would getting sent down be a confidence booster? He wasn’t being counted on to be consistent yet. They clearly knew and stated that.
I’ts the coaches job to work on his psyche.
sorry if this has been said, but i didn’t feel like reading all of it.
i think gomez has one year of minor league ball in his system, which is not nearly enough. the mets rushed him to the majors, and so did the twins. as exciting as he is, i’d rather see how exciting and talented he could be in a couple years with a year of AA and a year of AAA under his belt.
For everyone who is comparing Gomez’s slump with people like Young, Sabathia, Pence, Morneau, etc. There is one big differnce, they all had one or more good years. I know Gomez is young, but I am going to take a stab at this, HE IS JUST NOT THAT GOOD AND WILL NEVER BE BETTER THAN A 260 hitter. No one talks about this free agency going out and getting Aaron Roward. We could have signed him for the contract tha Hunter was on (5 yrs 60 mil) I know he is not the defensive CF that Hunter was, but can you complain about a guy that day in and day out give 100% and has as good of bat as Hunter, some say even a little better, not to mention 2 yrs younger.
Peeps seriously the kid is 22!!
True there is a chance that he’ll never be a good hitter.
My bet is he’ll be a .250 30HR’S 30SB
type of player in the future.
He’s already made it clear he intends to hit for power in the future.
YOU DON’T SEND HIM DOWN THAT’S JUST DUMB!
30 HRS that is hilarious. NOT A CHANCE. But then again they said Mauer was going to his more and more HR every year. HAHAHAHAHA
He’s easily the most feared base-stealer in the american league.
So what if his OBP is .250 a single scores him if he’s on base.
Span sucks besides!
I am sure that is what the Twins were thinking for the centerpiece of the Santana trade A 250 OBP leadoff hitter. Even Punto had a 290 OBP.
I guess I’m a little out of my league!!
Jacob the all knowing please shed some light on me oh enlightened one.
Not like the twins have ever had a speedy little lead-off hitter that went on to be the teams perenial #3 hitter!!
The smartest thing to does was 1 of 2 things. 1.) Make the trade with Boston and get Ellsbury who is super fast PLUS Hit for a 300+ avg with 15+ HRS now along with an OBP of 400+ year in and year out and maybe the most important stat, strikeout out less than half as much. Or 2.) keep Santana up until the trade deadline helping the wins stay in the playoff race and see how Gomez and others pan out. I know they weren’t going to resign Santana, but let other teams have the growing pains with those younger guys.
GUERRA WAS THE CENTERPIECE NOT GOMEZ!
PAY ATTENTION!
THIS TRADE IS ABOUT 2010!
Great prospect don’t get me wrong. I am just not a huge fan of 19 yr olds that already had arm/shoulder problems (shoulder tendinitis). I know that Gomez wasn’t the centerpiece, and I understand he is up because potential and to show the Twins fans part of something they got for Santana, but take the names off the back of the jersey and Span looks better as of now and Gomez is just flat out overmatched by MLB pitchers.
I read one blog about the communication effectiveness with GOGO. I worry a little about that also.
You’d think they would be very careful, spend time and a little $ on a communications coach who is hired explicitly to assure that everything important is being communicated timely and effectively to him and any other nonenglish speaking youing players.
A small investment to protect against lack of communication problems.
I’m going to watch the game now, and I hope GOGO is playing. Man —that kid is fun to watch. GO GOGO GO!!!!
HAVE FUN!!!!GO TWINS!!!
You have to keep him up. And just because he is the hitting coach, it doesn’t mean he is hitting. Gomez has to get it through his own head not to swing at the curveball in the dirt every time. Hit him 7th or 8th for a while, and let him develop.
I agree with Tut. And I saw glimmers–I won’t call them signs–of progress last night. Believe it or not, he took several close breaking balls and worked two counts full. He also fouled off some tough pitches. Give the pitchers a little credit. They threw some nasty stuff at him. If I’m not mistaken, Brendan Harris also struck out twice and didn’t hit anything else out of the infield against those guys, and he’s our best hitter by the numbers so far. Give him a day off once in a while to clear his head and come back to the ballpark and just be fun. He won’t set the world on fire, and perhaps he shouldn’t be hitting lead-off. But this is where he’ll develop the fastest.
My spring training suggestion that this guy should be in AAA after a month has been vindicated! Those of you who disliked my comment then should learn to hold your tongues in the future until you have seen for yourself!
Get some sleep twins fans boof is toeing the slab
Only when a player gets to around 1500 AB’s in MLB do most field staffs feel they have an accurate assessment of what the “ceiling ” is for a player. Billy Bean is an exception, because he’s so much smarter than the other 29 GMs. In the meantime, they look for incremental improvements. My guess is that the Twins field staff might like to see 100 ABs or so from Gomez before attempting to reconcile their overall judgments, primarily formed by intense everyday exposure to these athletes rather than by a review of a handful of data points. Summary: patience, my brothers.
Welcome to losertown… population everyone on who has responded starting with the author. Really? Anyone who thinks the Twins are anything better than a .500 ball club are just being typical Minnesota Dumb! Why wouldn’t you give a talented athlete every opportunity to compete at this level when your team is at best a 3 place team in the division? I’m sorry but you all have been listening to KFAN way to much. I bet you also think the Vikings are now a Super bowl team with the recent trade. Stop acting like Wisconsin people who can’t tell Brett Favre from the trees.
Nate,
you must be a Detroit/Cleveland/Chicago fan…
for the record, methinks that the Twins will be ahead of all of them come October. We’ll be here. Come and call me “dumb” then. Till then, please go drink your koolaid some place closer to your home
What an epic pile of dung!!
Are you on the “Span” role? Seriously his fielding skills are limited and suggesting he’d be a more exciting or consistent lead off hitter, please.
Though I guess you have sparked responses, kinda cheesy lame attempt to get them though.
RF
Off topic, but reports are that Jimmy Rollins has a break in his ankle! Wow.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/04/23/report-rollins-has-break-in-his-ankle/
“Look at the most prolific players in the runs scored category and you’ll find HR hitters and guys that steal a lot of bases in some cases they do both.
There are very few with good OBP’s that don’t hit HR’s or steal bases that score a lot of runs. That should be a clue.”
I took your advice and just looked. Pete Rose scored 2165 runs in his career, good for 6th all time. He hit 160 home runs and stole 198 bases. Career OBP of .375 and was top ten in the league 11 times. Craig Biggio is 61st all time in stolen bases, yet is 13th all time in runs scored. Career OBP of .363 including 10 straight years of an OBP above .370. Number 19 on the list of runs scored is Charlie Gehringer. Charlie had an OBP of .404 and hit 184 homers and stole 181 bases in his career.
I could keep on going, but I’m not going to. Your argument is flawed. You take out guys that hit a lot of homeruns or stole a lot of bases, then claim that OBP isn’t very important in terms of runs scored. You should look at the players that lead in runs scored and notice something many of them have in common - they all have very good OBP. Also, some played for a crazy amount of time - see Rickey Henderson, Pete Rose, etc.
Take a look at Vince Coleman. He’s 6th all time with 752 stolen bases. He is 465th all time with 849 runs scored. His career OBP was only .324. In 1986, he stole 107 bases, yet only scored 94 runs. His OBP was .301. Tony Gwynn stole only 37 bases, yet scored 107 times. His OBP was .381.
Stealing bases at a high percentage helps your teams score runs. There is little doubting that. However, getting on base is far more important to scoring runs than stealing a base is.
Span was in the leadoff spot today. We lost 3-0. Span did have a hit though.
And if Morneau isn’t getting RBI’s how come he’s been in the top ten of the AL for most the year? Go-Go still needs some time, give him a month, move him to the nine spot, but don’t send him down yet.
What a pathetic effort on the part of the batters tonight. If there’s a bus going to AAA, might as well put Tolbert and Young on it, too.
Well said Pete D.
Sending Gomez down makes no sense at all. He’ll just have to come back up a adjust all over again. If pitchers have figured him out and are pitching to his weakness, he’s going to see a lot of those pitches and he’ll start hitting them. He has also started off slow at every level he’s played at, then made the adjustment and shined. He will be fine.
What was that? Another shutout for the Twins hitters. Joe Vavra at his very best. Lead the league in being shut out last year, and is well on his way to back to back seasons of ineptitude.
He seems like a good guy, but Vavra needs to be reassigned to a different job in the organization. Look at what he’s done with Mauer-the more experience he gets the more he looks like a career .285 singles hitter who will lead the league in hitting into double plays. Some people want to put Delmon Young 3rd in the lineup but he’s not much better than Gomez in his approach at the plate. He swings at the first pitch all the time-doesn’t seem to matter where it is. Pitchers rarely throw him strikes-you don’t have to. He gets himself out. The Twins need somebody with some experience at teaching hitting that knows what he’s doing and inspires confidence in the players to get guys like Mauer and Young on track.
If Gardenhire won’t fire Vavra, then someone above Gardenhire needs to do it for him. This is such an obvious problem! Do something!
Once again our offense/Joe Vavra leaves Boof hanging. Boof’s provided the team 4 quality starts in his 5 games, we’ve rewarded him with a grand total of 7 (seven) runs. Yes, I said 7 runs.
Fire Joe Vavra.
Turned it off last night after Chad Gaudin - CHAD GAUDIN! - set down 14 ‘hitters’ in a row. This team is no fun to watch. No one hits the ball consistently hard. Most hits are scratch infield singles or flares that find a soft patch of OF grass to fall in. Takes four singles to score a run. The other day against Cleveland we won with two runs, and it took something like 11 or 12 hits to manufacture those two… yech!
Oh, and Jason Kubel is the biggest butcher in the outfield for the Twins since the likes of Willie Norwood, Bombo Rivera, Hosken Powell and Bob Gorinski. This guy is beyond dreadful. He let a one-legged Mike Sweeney go from first to third last night. Over the weekend he dropped a fly ball that was in his glove. His arm is so pathetic it makes former luminaries such as Bobby Mitchell and Tack Wilson (both CF’s for the Twins before Puckett’s arrival) look like they had cannons. What is Gardenhire thinking putting him out there at all?
The Twins shouldn’t let this 22-year-old shatter the confidence that is such a huge part of his game.
Joe, will his confidence be more shattered by keeping him up or sending him down?
I think the assumption that young players have confidence levels akin to china dolls that can shatter into a million pieces with the slightest bump is nothing short of asinine. If their confidence is that fragile, they won’t last in the frying pan that is major-league baseball.
I was thinking about what the Twins could do if they just kept Gomez up here but put him in the number nine hole and let him work through his struggles against good pitching without the pressure of the lead-off spot.
If they did that, who would lead off. I think Pete’s post points the way. Who leads the team in OBP?
The answer is Matt Tolbert if Gardy decides to play him everyday. If not, Brendan Harris has the highest OBP among regulars. Gardy’s been going with Gomez, Harris, Mauer and Morneau at the top of the lineup. Perhaps when Cuddy comes back he can move the first three back one, rolling Gomez into the nine hole, Harris into lead-off and Mauer into the two hole and inserting Cuddyer into the three hole ahead of Morneau.
oh my god…settle down everyone…yes gomez is currently struggling…so is phillies ryan howard (.190)…should he be sent down too…relax…he will come around…having said that, the twins staff needs to work with him on going to the right side, he tries to pull way too much
lead off homer for Gomez,
get him down before his next atbat
Hey Joe, what do you think of your guy Gomez now?
[…] Christensen, making an office visit the day after writing about he’d lost his patience with Gogomez, exchanged high fives with Section […]
Liriano also has been overmatched; he may need some more time to get his game back.
As for Gomez, he doesn’t lack for confidence. He can’t hit the breaking pitches yet and he chases out-of-strike zone fastballs.. Rookie issues.
Twins are being over-reactionary. Clearly, all they really needed to do was get Joe C to write an entry in this blog saying, “Liriano Looks Dangerously Overmatched” before his next scheduled start and we’d have seen a no-hitter the next day. Problem solved.
I think it would be a very big mistake sending Gomez down. You would be doing the very thing your afraid of in letting his confidence slip away by sending him down. WAY too early to make a drastic move like this. Give him time. He provides a spark to this team like I have never seen since Kirby Puckett. Span will be doing the same thing with less energy and excitment us Twins fans need.
Putting Gomez on the same level as Ryan Howard. Now that’s funny…
Coco is still available…
