Gomez on record pace for stolen bases, bunt hits
Posted on May 1st, 2008 – 9:24 AMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins’ record for bunt hits is 29, set by Rod Carew in 1974. I had that wrong in my game story today and received a couple e-mails, which helped us correct it for online editions.
Anyway, Carlos Gomez has nine bunt hits, putting him on pace for 54.
He also has 11 stolen bases, putting him on pace for 66, which would break the team record of 62, set by Chuck Knoblauch in 1997.
And to think some of us were suggesting just a week ago that the Twins should consider sending him to the minors.
147 Responses to "Gomez on record pace for stolen bases, bunt hits"
And to think some of us were suggesting just a week ago that the Twins should consider sending him to the minors.
Not me!!!!! I wouldn’t even consider it. I didn’t follow that trend. Just like I think we should keep Punto. Just like I think Kubel should go down to start hitting for a higher avg. Just like I think Mulvey should come up and join the staff. Also is Livan the newest version of Ponson?
This is off topic but check out the following link. Our buddy Livian Hernandez has 9 career HR’s in 700+ AB’s.
They shouldn’t send Gomez down now but they also shouldn’t have brought him up to start the season. They are going to regret that move when he is making a ton of money with that one more year of experience they could have saved by keeping him down for a month and a half.
Will Gomez and Young ever call off the other player when a fly ball is hit between them. I am just waiting for that collision. One more thing is that Gomez has tremendous upside but he is such a showboat that eventually his head will not fit in the metrodome. I guess the open air stadium will accomodate his head swelling up to the size of a hot air baloon. With this being said no big worry it will never reach the size of Kobe Bryant proportions
“And to think some of us were suggesting just a week ago that the Twins should consider sending him to the minors.”
Come on Joe just admit you were that guy. Wait untill he goes into another slump and will be hearing it again.
BC I think it was that retard Howard Sinker that said that. Someone needs to get that guy a laxative
I love Gomez! I was ok with them sending him down and am still ok with it if he slumps….. keep him there 2 months and save money down the road. I am also ok with the team keeping him up thru struggles……
he is the player who’s at-bats i make sure to catch… good or bad
“And to think some of us were suggesting just a week ago that the Twins should consider sending him to the minors”
howard was right… first you said he should now you regret it after one week..
this is from last week…
“Watching him go 0-for-5 with four strikeouts Tuesday was my final straw. He has six hits — and no walks — in his last 45 plate appearances. That translates into a .133 on-base percentage, the most important stat for a leadoff hitter. (Numbers corrected.)
He has 24 strikeouts in 89 plate appearances this season. Most players who strike out at that rate are power hitters. See Ryan Howard (30 Ks), Bill Hall (25), Carlos Pena (24). Gomez has a .310 slugging percentage. Howard’s is .367, Hall’s .444 and Pena’s .463.
Gomez needs a one-game break, at the very least. The Twins should even consider sending him, and not Denard Span, back to the minors when Michael Cuddyer returns from the DL on Friday.”
now its like it never happened… i guess you can do that though as a fan
Joe, I still think he should be in the minors. I don’t care how many bases he steals, a guy with a .279 OBP and limited power is simply not an offensive threat.
Gomez is a potential superstar, but one that is over matched at the big league level. He needs to have his swing broken down and revamped by minor league coaches who know how to work with raw talent.
heres howards comments last week on joes article first one is the same day as joe then the second one is the next day…
“A quick argument for keeping Gomez here is that he has had some electric moments, has played very well on defense (including two extraordinary catches) and should only get better by being around the majors. Is it really any different than having today’s starter, Francisco Liriano, on the roster after his Tommy John surgery?”
“We saw on our screens that Gogomez had gogone deep to give the Twins a 1-0 lead.
Joe Christensen, making an office visit the day after writing about he’d lost his patience with Gogomez, exchanged high fives with Section 220.
“You really got him going,” I told Joe.
Then, I imagined the headline: “Gogo to Joe: Demote THIS!”
The humor dissipated, though, when Francisco Liriano managed to let 8 of the 10 A’s he faced reach base. Five walks, three hits, big loss.
Then, after the game, the Twins went along with the wishes of the Section 220 electorate by demoting Denard Span instead of Gogomez. (Hey, I know the decision was made before the game, but for the sake of empowerment, let’s say that the people — kind of — united, will never be defeated.)”
kubelfan…
would you rather have punto leading off? because thats our next option…
and dont say span cause in the majors he was batting like .230… with like a .250 obp….
Livan could be the newest Ramon Ortiz. Both started out 3-0 and looked like all-stars. Ortiz then got roughed up and was out of the Twins club by the end of the year.
liondragon is right. GoGo is not ready for major league pitching. He needs to be batting down in the order, maybe even 9th. His 9 multi hit games are nice, but that is also a clear sign of what a poor lead off guy he is right now. You have to have a lead off guy with at least a .330 ob%.
He will not be lead off all year. It does him no good to bat him there, watch him end up at .230 for the season and lose his confidence.
I would never throw him a strike.
I doubt Livan ends up like Ortiz. We new there would be bad days with Livan but there will be great ones too. That is just the kind of pitcher he is.
I really love it when all the baseball minds roll out the stats to justify everything. Gomez can play the game. Sometimes in spectacular fashion and sometimes not so great. That is a product of youth. Gomez may be the type of guy who is better off learning at the big league level. His confidence may be more shaken by being demoted. The kid is a player and will be a star. We might as well all get to watch his development.
Kubelfan
Have you seen Kubel’s OBP? I’m not saying Kubel should get sent down but here are the stats via SethSpeaks. Kubel actually has a lower OBP than Gomez.
Carlos Gomez - .265/.279/.373 - OPS of .652
Jason Kubel - .237/.257/.381 - OPS of .639
Delmon Young - .265/.306/.314 - OPS of .620
Gomez is a potential superstar, but one that is over matched at the big league level. He needs to have his swing broken down and revamped by minor league coaches who know how to work with raw talent.
If Gomez needs to go down and is batting .265 and Kubel is batting in the .230 range what should we do with Kubel then. This statement doesn’t make any sense to me
Kubel is a left handed version of Pete Incaviglia after his 1991 season. If you want to know what you will be getting in him. Not before the 1991 season but after.
Jimmy Bee-
You have a lot to learn about baseball. First, there is no way that Kubel should go down. He’s a power hitter — he doesn’t hit for average! While it would be nice if he hit for a little higher average, that is not his game. And he is not, and should not, be sent down so he can work on his average. He has been one of our most productive hitters so far and you want to send him down — wow. He is the only one on the team with multiple home runs other than Morneau.
Second, you mentioned Gomez’s big head. It’s something called confidence and swagger. Yes, he may seem a bit arrogant and over the top sometimes, but I have no problem with a guy playing with a little cockiness and swagger. I bet you didn’t have a problem with Torii Hunter when he played the exact same way. The Twins need someone like that, especially considering that Mauer and Morneau are very quiet guys. I don’t care if Gomez is arrogant and has a big head — that’s exactly what we need.
Send him down, he is more of a liability. If TK were here and Gomez pulled this crap he would be sent down much like Mr Ortiz. He has one good game and we think he is the next Ricky Henderson… Well Ricky got on base, Gomez does not
And to think some of us were suggesting just a week ago that the Twins should consider sending him to the minors.
….because the guy is on pace to break the bunt for hit record, shouldn’t be the benchmark for keeping the guy in the majors or not.
If he needs seasoning, he needs seasoning.
And liondragon, can you be anymore short-sighted? I guess you think Span and Punto are the only options if Gomez were to get sent to AAA. Get a clue.
jimmy jam,they are the only options to lead off… yes im saying that mauer will NEVER lead off and neither will harris…..
if gardy said mauer should lead off mauer would be asking for a trade…
Marshall you have a strange outlook on Kubel. If people want to send down a player batting .265 with 11 stolen bases and some dazzling catches in the outfield. Then in the same paragraph dont say anything regarding a player batting .230 and dropping like a lead baloon. I guess I do have alot to learn because that makes NO sense to me Marshall.
Marshall on a side note I think Gomez is Great. I don’t want him sent down and nor did I ever jump on that band wagon with all of the other blog clones. The other thing is I have never bashed Punto either.
Here’s the thing if they sent Gomez down and the team continues to struggle then everyone would be crying about why these young guys aren’t getting playing time. This team has a lot of YOUNG talent and i for one do not expect the Twins to finish at .500 this year so why not let them work things out now for the future.
Marshall
Actually Kubel has been a guy that hits for average his whole career. Check out his minor league stats and you will see that he is much more of a guy that hits for average and has gap power more than a HR hitter.
I am a little perplexed as to why Kubel is hitting so poorly this year. He ended last year so well I was expecting him to carry it over to this year.
jama I truly believe that if we send Gomez down and which I am totally opposed to then Kubel should go down as well.
Before the season, most people would be happy to know that after a month, Gomez was hitting .265, had 11 steals, and had made some of the highlight plays in CF that ol’ #48 did. Most 22 yr. olds with limited MLB at bats don’t come up tearing the cover off the ball. What do people expect, an all-star performance. He even has those numbers with that terrible slump. You had to expect some adjustments by the opposing pitchers. Now it’s his turn to adjust, and he seems to be doing that. The more MLB pitching he see’s , the better off he will be.
Has anyone seen how Corey Patterson is doing?? Not so well. He was the next best FA option, and Gomez has outdone him.
I wonder when we can expect to see mulvey. I thought for sure it wasn’t going to be Korecky before Mulvey
“If TK were here and Gomez pulled this crap he would be sent down much like Mr Ortiz.”
I think we all know what happend with Ortiz after he left and would rather not see things work out that way again. Unless you like letting future all-stars and possibly the most feared lefty in the league go for nothing.
Just don’t think that’s the approach for good young talent. There is a reason a year after TK left, the Twins started winning again. TK didn’t work well with the players they had, he knew it, and stepped aside.
Good points, LNP4Life. Surely the Twins are banking on seeing improvement from Gomez over the course of the season. And what an entertaining character he is. Reminds me of Willie Norwood, except poor Willie screwed everything up, whereas Gomez only screws up half the time. Be thankful we’re not dozing off to the likes of Rich Becker, Hosken Powell, or Jason Tyner.
LNP
I would argue that Kenny Lofton was and still is the best option. But since he hasn’t signed you can’t compare them.
quotes from SI baseball preview 2001:
“Stale is a perfect work for Tom Kelly. He’s proved he can win with good players, but maybe he should be with another club and let a young energetic guy take the kids and grow with them. Kelly ran Todd Walker out of town, and he’s never been known for giving young kids a lot of leash.”
Is TK a heavy drinker. When they have him speak he sounds a little buzzed up. I am in no way shape or form poking fun at TK. But I simply am asking a question.
“If TK were here and Gomez pulled this crap he would be sent down much like Mr Ortiz.”
If TK had sent players down for making a mistake, he would have been stupid.
You send players down if they insist on doing things the wrong way and show no effort to correct their deficiencies.
I mentioned Kenny before the season, but most people on here didn’t like that too much. Thought he was too old to produce. Always liked the guy, and he played well for Cleveland down the stretch last year.
jimmybee,
Are you a heavy drinker?
TK makes much more sense than you do.
Just asking.
This team is in rebuilding mode bringing in some old veteran like Lofton does nothing to help this team in the future. I think Gomez has the potential to be more like Rickey Henderson than Kenny Lofton.
jon your dumb
Yeah jon you lick Carl Pohlad’s old baseballs.
Arizona won 90 games last year with a lead off hitter who batted .237 .295 .467. granted, they are not the same player, Chris Young hit 32 hr last year, but only drove in 68. And in his first full year, Granderson batted .260 .335 .438. He also led the league in K’s while hitting 19 HR. Detroit went to the series that year.
off subject but being sports fans i thought some of you would appreciate this story. Sportsmanship at it’s finest.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/04/the_best_tale_of_sportsmanship.html
Gomez is key for the Twins this season. If he’s playing well, so will the team.
BC I really enjoyed that story and thank you for sharing it with me
jimmybee,
Class act, “Bill”.
Maybe I should complain to JoeC about that.
Then you will be down to one last blog.
Gomez also leads the team in multi hit games. Having never seen virtualy every pitcher he faces doesn’t do Gomez any favors. He’s going to have a learing curve, or is it slider, whether he’s here now or in July.
Follow up to my previous post above.
Livian Hernandez has 9 career HR’s.
Nick Punto has 9 career HR’s.
How about Mikah Owing coming in to pinch hit last night and hitting a game winning 2 run HR. If you do not know who he is, he is a starting pitcher for the D’Backs. His Career Numbers are pretty ridiculous.
jimmy bee
I thought it was great also and a good reminder to everyone that it’s just a game and it’s not always about winning and losing.
Follow up to my previous post above.
Livian Hernandez has 9 career HR’s.
Nick Punto has 9 career HR’s.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Punto .256/.326/.256
Santana .267/.313/.467
No doubt, Go-Go was in a funk a few weeks ago. But he is also the most exciting Twins player this side of Kirby.
You demote them when they’re not ready for the league for whatever reason. For example, we demoted Liriano recently to AAA because he was not yet ready for MLB in his recovery process. Last year, we demoted Alexi Casilla because he was not yet ready in development. Gomez is a situation like Casilla, a young kid who hasn’t proven it yet in the minors, and could benefit greatly from learning fundamental techniques in the minor leagues, where you can try things and screw up.
However, you do not demote people for slumping. The Tigers have not and will not demote Nate Robertson, despite the fact that he is 0-3 with a 6.90 ERA.
So if you have a baseball player like Mikah Owing’s who can pitch and hit at what point does his value as a hitter outweigh his value as a pitcher?
(sorry, accidentally hit submit)
The Tigers also won’t demote Placido Polanco, who is hitting just .228 so far this year. These guys know everything they have to know, they’re just struggling right now. This is Kubel’s situation. That is why Gomez should be demoted and Kubel should not.
As for the leadoff hitter, it would make sense to just move everyone up one spot in the lineup after sending Gomez down.
what makes you think gomez would get better coaching in aaa? have they produced a lot of major league hitters in the last 3-4 yrs?
kubal would probably need to clear waivers if he was sent down he has enough service time to be out of option i think, maybe some baseball genius knows for sure.
Micah Owings can flat out rake. Coming off the bench and going deep is one thing, but a starting pitcher doing it on his off day is amazing. To this day, I still don’t understand why 99% of MLB pitchers are so bad at hitting. I guarantee almost every single one of them hit clean-up in Little League and/or high school and played SS between starts (except for the southpaws). Some of these guys look like they’ve never swung a bat before….NEVER. If I were a GM, I would try to revolutionize the game by having pitchers take BP as much as the position players. Pitchers are the most coddled and pampered players on the roster. Playing catch or throwing a bully takes 20 minutes. They have plenty of time to take some hacks. Imagine another 4-5 pinch hitting options late in a game, especially in the NL. Micah Owings is an additional position player 4 out of 5 games. How nice is that?
Kubelfan
Dont compare Kubel’s situation to Placido Polanco’s situation. Polanco is a career .304 hitter and Kubel is a career .262. Those two are not even close.
sane says:
May 1st, 2008 at 12:27 pm
jimmybee,
Class act, “Bill”.
Maybe I should complain to JoeC about that.
Then you will be down to one last blog.
I don’t know what u r talking about jon I mean sane
I am in an awefull mood here at work so I must go now. Everyone have a great day and BLOG on…..
Bill i thought the exact same thing and when i was playing ball in high school the best “athletes” were the pitchers and they could hit and pitch as well. So going way back in time i wonder what prompted management to decide that Babe Ruth was a better hitter than pitcher?
I think Gomez is showing that he can take instruction and improve. Since Gardy benched him in Oakland, he is hitting .467, 5 R, 2 RBI, 2 SB, 2B, HR, and most impressively, only 1 SO.
jimmybee,
I’m not Jon, but your 12:22PM post was what it was.
What will happen 1st? (1) Punto hitting the ball out of the infield (2) twins pitcher throwing a complete game, or (3) Blyleven not saying “at the major league level” less than 10 times a broadcast?
sane shall we hash out vavra again today? ok lets not!
any body know who the hitting coach is in rochcester? what kind of track record does he have?
sane- Jimmy Bee will be out of the office on 05-01-2008 and will be returning on 05-02-2008 in case of emergency please feel free to contact his voicemail and have a great day
I’m not Jon, but your 12:22PM post was what it was.
Are you referring to an prime example of immaturity? Or a prime example of why we need a registration system around here?
Either is valid, though I’d like to see more of the latter and less of the former.
JoeC, those are nice projections…but let’s be careful not to start talking about that too much.
The last thing we want to see is Gomez get in his head that he should shoot for the “Better than Carew” record and pressure him. 
GO GOGO GO GO GOGO C”MON FASTER FASTER GO GOGO GO GET THAT BALL WOW!!! GAME SAVER!!! GO GOGO GO NOW BEAT OUT THAT BUNT OH YA!!! GO GOGO GO STEAL THAT BASE YAHOO!! GO GOGO GO C”MON FASTER YET! NOW SCORE THAT WINNING RUN
YABADABADO!!! TWINS WIN !! TWINS WIN!!
Send that kid down and I’ll move to Rochester
HAVE FUN!!! GO GOGO GO TWINS!!!
i live closer to Rochester, send him down 
Brian -
To add to your list of “firsts” to happen…
1) Joe Mauer pulling a ball in the gap for a double.
2) Nick Punto hitting a chopper and not sliding head first into the bag.
3) Nick Punto not starting 2 consecutive games.
4) Nick Punto getting an extra base hit.
5) Nick Punto getting an RBI.
6) Nick Punto showing any sign that he belongs on an MLB roster.
7) Bert Blyleven calling Delmon Young “Dmitri”.
Bert Blyleven saying “Pirahn-ta” (even though Punto is the only one left)
9) Bert Blyleven not reminding us of how many days until his birthday.
10) Dick Bremer not having a heart attack when someone makes a routine play.
11) Dick & Bert admit to getting the AFLAC trivia question wrong.
12) Telly Hughes actually sounding like he knows what he’s talking about.
13) FSN going an entire broadcast without coming back from a commercial late and missing an AB.
14) Gardy letting a starter throw more than 100 pitches (their arm won’t fall off).
Add to Brasky’s list…
–Dick and Bert going an entire broadcast without making an incorrrect “call”
–FSN producers, in an amazing exercise of common sense, do not feature one “Circle Me Bert” sign during a telecast…
–Immature Twins fans, cognizant of the FSN producer’s courage, no longer bring said annoying signs to the ball park and hold them up in front of my face between every inning
–John Gordon doesn’t describe a fly ball by a Twin as being “well hit” as the same ball magically is caught by the opponent.
–FSN Twins Live producers, in an equally courageous act, pull the plug on those silly post game on-field demonstrations
–Dick Bremer actually says the name of the Best Damn Sports Show Period on-air
–Bert Blyleven refrains from using even more colorful language on-air
–Dick Bremer doesn’t cite “a lot of balls have been hit hard” when explaining the recent struggles of a slumping hitter
–Bert Blyleven refrains from using “at the major league level”
Ahhh, I could go on but I’m tired…someone pick it up from here…
-Bert Blyleven saying “You can tell when he’s seeing the ball good because he’ll go the other way” honestly he’s used that line like a thousand times.
Bert telling Dick about hot dog consumption
Bert telling Dick about his California math
Bert telling Dick about the best athlete on a team is a pitcher.
Roy Smalley gets a real haircut.
15) Gardy is actually seen wearing a jersey and not a jacket or pullover. Didn’t Terry Francona get busted for this awhile back?
16) Joe Vavra actually talking with hitters between AB’s. Rick Anderson is all over his pitchers between innings.
17) The Twins actually bring someone in from outside the organization to get something done other than promotting from within (i.e. Billy Smith, Joe Vavra).
18) Another member of the Mauer family gets drafted.
19) They draft a legitimate position player in the 1st round.
20) Nick Punto hits clean-up.
21) Joe Mauer actually hits a ball over the fence (in fair territory) for what is supposedly caleld a “Home Run”.
22) Boof Bonser says he lost 25 lbs. but really didn’t.
23) Speaking of Boof, we don’t have to listen to complaints about his lack of run support - it’s part of the game - deal with it.
Good call, E…Smalley’s hair is brutal right now
-a day without Punto bashing
-a day without Mauer bashing
-a day without Dick & Bert bashing
-a day without Gardy bashing
-a day without Vavra bashing
-a day without Gomez bashing
-a day without Pohlad bashing
Bert doesn’t talk about Mauer for one single day
you’re right, Hawk….we could actually stop talking about the Twins completely…I’m sure our friends in the front office and media would love that.
FSN tells TH to go back to his job at the Arby’s drive-through.
“We would love to have our players / coaches / management scrutinized like this by a large group of fans…”
Signed,
Minnesota Lynx
Minnesota Thunder
Minnesota Swarm
Lakeville North Volleyball
blah
24) More talk about Cuddyer being a 3-hitter and comparable talent-wise to Manny Ramirez (yes - Dick Bremer actually made the comparison a cuople years ago).
25) Carl Pohlad kicks bucket so his kids can spend some $$$ (doubt it will happen though)
26) I have to watch someone throw a nerf baseball from the upper deck into the back of a pick-up and the PA guy says “it’s not as easy as it looks” every time.
27) Stupid fans jump and down and scream for a free T-shirt shot out of a gun like they’re at a Hannah Montana concert - when the same T-shirt can be bought for $3 at a souvenir stand.
28) Stupid fans that clap and cheer for a FC. Great, he beat out a DP ball.
LOL I love #26! Way to go, Jim Cunningham…keep telling yourself that
29) Dick Bremer introducing Rick Aguleira as “one of the greatest closers of all time” (August 2006)
a day when Dick talks about how Nathan’s cheeks quiver
The day I have to hear about another play by Pohlad;s little brat.
Bert doesn’t talk about the days when there wasn’t a pitch count.
How about Bert doesn’t reference something that happened in his playing career at all (we get it, you pitched in the Bigs back in the day, Bert…now how about shifting your attention back to 2008)
Ron accidently goes on camera with that beer he keeps stashed under the FSN desk.
How about Coomer doesn’t have a shi_ grin on his face.
LOL you guys are hilarious….all in good fun, FSN, we love you….
Coom with the beer…that’s great
Could you imagine if Ron Coomer broke out with a “Back in my All-Star season of 1999, I liked to sit on fastballs on a 2-0 count…”
Does Gomez look like Sam Cassel with an afro
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
“What was that, Ron Coomer was an All-Star? Excuse me, I have to go shoot myself now…”
Signed,
Michael Cuddyer
thank you Hawk
GRAB SOME BENCH
Bert admits to Dick that he “goes the other way” and that Dick would make a good catcher.
3-1 bad guys; 4-3 bad guys….Hawk
Guess that Thome drive to left didn’t “stretch” far enough Tues. night…
that’s wrong, BC
BC here is one that Bert starts talking about how he wants another bite of dicks hot dog
lol sorry just funnin
Just clowning around hope no one takes offense
I’m only in town for a couple more days. If anybody has a daughter who can sing country tunes I’ll be happy to help her hit the big time. She’ll just need to audition for me at my hotel room.
He’s also on pace to make the most outs in a single season.
I can’t wait to see that one in the team’s media guide.
Umm… LNP… Gomez wasn’t a FA. Gomez was the return on Santana. Do you want to compare against some of the other players discussed in the Santana trade (AVG/OBP/R/HR/RBI/SB)?
Coco Crisp: .293/.312/6/0/5/4
Jacoby Ellsbury: .280/.396/20/3/11/8
Jed Lowrie: .323/.371/4/0/5/0 (31AB’s)
Jon Lester: 1-2, 22K’s, 23BB’s, 4.31ERA, 1.54 WHIP
Justin Masterson: 0-0, 4K’s, 4BB’s, 1.50ERA, 1.00WHIP (6IPs)
But Gogoofball is going to set the team record for bunt singles. Yay. You know what does the same thing? It’s called a *walk*.
—————————————
LNP4Life says:
May 1st, 2008 at 11:26 am
Has anyone seen how Corey Patterson is doing?? Not so well. He was the next best FA option, and Gomez has outdone him.
He needs to have his swing broken down and revamped by minor league coaches who know how to work with raw talent.
Are you prepared to let him stew in the minors for three years? That’s what you’re recommending.
And M. That’s a pretty selective sample you have there. It doesn’t mention Kevin Mulvey, Philip Hughes, or Ian Kennedy. I wonder why? Because they make your argument look silly.
Not at all. I listed all the Red Sox players because the Yankees had an inferior offer.
The thing that looks silly is getting all hot and bothered about a lead-off hitter who has an OBP under .300.
M.,
At the time, the Hughes-Melky-whoever offer was the one most of the blogs regretted the Twins delaying off the table.
thought i should say this see what you guys think…
i was playing scrabble tonight and on my second turn i had a word but they wouldnt let me do it… what was it????
morneau…
thoughts?
I’m not sure if that’s true. Most of what I read reported that the Red Sox was offering a consistently better offer. The only offer that people thought might have been better was Hughes-Kennedy-Melky which is something the Twins wanted but the Yankees never offered.
Also, that’s only because the people here don’t understand the value of someone like Lester or Masterson… they’re so caught up in the idea of getting another Santana that they were completely dismissive to a quality #3 starters under five or six years of cost control.
But if you want me to post the Yankees offer, here you go…
Melky: .299/.370/15/5/12/3
Hughes: 0-4, 13K’s, 13BB’s, 9.00ERA, 2.14WHIP
Kennedy: 0-2, 15K’s, 17BB’s, 8.53ERA, 2.11 WHIP
Melky alone makes the Yankees package better than GogoGrabSomePine and I’d expect both Kennedy and Hughes to have servicable starter numbers over the next 5 years. So I have no idea on how this makes me look “silly”.
My recollection was that Hughes-Cabrera-someone (not Kennedy) was offered by the Yanks. Ellsbury+2 or Lester/Crisp+2 was offered by the Sox.
The Twins asked the Sox to put Ellsbury and Lester in a single package but the Sox refused and the Yanks pulled the Hughes-Cabrera-someone (not Kennedy) offer off the table.
I agree with you, that Lester-Crisp-Masterson-Lowrie was not given the proper respect it deserved, because both Lester and Crisp were bad-mouthed on the blogs.
you’re right, Hawk….we could actually stop talking about the Twins completely…
As Hawk (and countless others) have tried to point out to people such as yourself and Brasky, it’s fun to occaisonally talk about something Twins other than the typical three or four loop-de-loops that are Punto, Vavra, and Pohlad.
Oh, and the fact that people such as yourself only seem to show up after a loss.
What’s the matter? Not able to talk baseball when you don’t have something to whine about?
sane…from my recollection, the “not Kennedy” was either a Tabata or Jackson (I think both were AAA IF)
M
I was mentioning Patterson because some people thought adding him would be better than Gomez or Span up here. Thats why Lofton and Patterson were brought up in the conversation. You need to work on your reading comprehension skills buddy.
Has anybody picked up Lofton yet?
And I really didn’t like the idea of signing Cameron. Wasn’t he the one looking at a good sized suspension? That would have left the Twins signing a guy to help their offense, but wouldn’t have him available util a month into the season or so.
I saw him making some starts over the weekend on ESPN, so either the suspension wasn’t as long as I thought (25 games sticks in my mind for some reason)…or it’s later into the season than I thought.
Never said Gomez was a FA. Said Patterson was. Then Jama mentioned Lofton as the best FA CF available. How about that Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. Wow, that would have worked out well. Masterson got rocked yesterday in AA ball. He’s not even a AAA pitcher. Ellsbury was ice cold to start the year so he’s been up and down, much like Gomez but 3 years older. And Jed Lowrie is nothing more tha Matt Tolbert, who we already have. Oh, and Lester, who has also been rocked and wouldn’t make it in our rotation, maybe in the pen. Nothing too great. If you take away Ellsbury’s supporting cast I guarentee he wouldn’t have the numbers he has on the Redsox. Put him on the Twins and he’ll struggle
I thought we got Lofton in the Santana trade!!
Once agian, I was stating that Patterson, of Lofton, who I like, was our next best option in CF if we didn’t use Gomez there and left him in AAA. I’m not even really counting Span.
I thought we might be able to get a deal on Cameron, pick him up cheap. But the Brew signed him to a pretty good deal. I thought he would fit in well, sort of a Torii lite in most regards.
Wow. Amazing.
Even *after* the trade, Twins fans like LNP are still finding ways to trash the Red Sox offer to make themselves think that they got the best end of the deal.
First, Ellsbury vs. GogoGrabSomeBench isn’t even a comparison. They’ve both been up and down? That’s your comparison? Ellsbury started slow in the first week; since April 12th his OBP has been over .375, hitting .456 at one point. You’re comparing Microsoft and penny stocks at this point. Sure, they’re kind of the same that both go up and both go down but one stays a whole lot above the other. And this is not some weird accident. Ellsbury’s LOWEST OBP in the minors was .360. Gomez’s HIGHEST OBP in the minors was .363.
As far as Masterson and Lester, you keep trashing pitchers who are MLB-ready at 23 & 24. Go out and buy a, “I’m with Stupid” shirt while you’re at it… it has about the same effect.
M,
the Twins have a whole system of servicable #3 starters already at their disposal. It is the strength of their system. See Blackburn as an example. Also, Slowey, Perkins. All ready to go now. What they wanted was a top of the rotation guy, Guerra. He’s younger than they wanted, but was the best available player in any of the trade offers with Hughes out. He’s put together a couple dominating starts and maybe by the end of next year will be up. They need a staff ace unless Liriano can return to form. All #3 starters would be good, but not good enough to actually win anything.
Man, you gotta check your math.
Ellsbury is 3 years older than Gomez?
Ellsbury: born - 9/11/83
Gomez: born - 12/4/85
2 years and a little under 3 months is not 3 years.
So you contend that Ellsbury, Lester and Masterson was the deal to take hands down?? I contend that Lester and Masterson are countered with Mulvey and Humber. That leaves Guerra and Gomez to counter Ellsbury. Gomez has more upside than Ellsbury, and Guerra could be a #1 starter.
All great starters… you mean like Livan Hernandez?
You’re the first baseball “fan” I know who doesn’t like the idea of a young, quality, left-handed pitcher. And to say that a player who has never played higher than A-ball is the best player out of a crop of major leaguers is certifiably insane.
Yah, but you only contend that because you’re stupid. One name, one name doesn’t make things the same.
Also, the best deal talked about (as sane alluded to) was: Lester, Crisp, Masterson, and Lowrie. Or if you wanted Ellsbury, then Ellsbury, Masterson, Lowrie, and I forget who would be the 4th piece. But Lester and Ellsbury were never included in the same package.
But hey, how should you know that? You don’t see anything past the Mississipi to the East and Iowa to the south.
I don’t recall metioning Livan and great in the same sentance. Nice try though. I never said anything about not liking lefty’s. But Lester is nothing special, no different than Perkins. Guerra is widely regarded as one of the best prospects in baseball.
Sorry,
guess I haven’t kept up with the Santana trade offers through spring training and now into the season. I guess when he was traded that would be it. But I guess we could still hash out these offers and send him to the Sox. I mean, why discuss the happening that are now, and not the ones from last winter. You rock guy
looks to me like M wants to be the meat in a elsbury lester sandwich
yeah,
after a month, it’s clearly obvious that the Twins got bamboozles by the rest of the league. What was I thinking. It’s much better to rush to judgement and start throwing around last winters trade rumors, which may or may not of included anybody.
Turn the page.
M,
I still can’t believe the Twins took Brad Havens when they traded Rod Carew to the Angels. Everyone knew Havens would never amount to anything. I was the one on this blog in 1979 that said they should never take Havens as part of that deal. Look where the Twins are now.
P.S. The Twins already traded Santana. Step out of the past and join us in the 2008 season.
Wow,
I don’t know if I have ever read anybody more condescending than M. His ability to trash somebody else and put words in their mouth is remarkable. A job in politics could be his calling.
ES16:
+1. I am so sick of the hindsight I could gack. It’s way too early to evaluate this trade against any possible offer from other teams, if those offers even existed, which is doubtful.
The only thing we can say is that the Twins did better than they would have if they kept him and let him walk, which was the only alternative when they pulled this trade.
Again, turn the page or become a Mets fan.
no one cares about me trying to do morneau on scrabble? 
Are the Twins going to be able to get some runs off of this Galarraga kid tonite?? I see the most hits he’s given up this year is 3, he one hit Cleveland through 6.2.
Hopefully we can rough him up a little. I see Kubel touched him up for a HR last year, Garrett Jones, Punto and Cuddy also got hits. He was with Texas then.
History is a very good teacher. We use history to learn from our past mistakes. The Dome was built as an indoor facility because Minnesota has HORIBLE WEATHER. We wanted a place to stay warm and also still be dry. Why we would even want an outdoor stadium is beyond me.
I’d help you out liondragon, but Scrabble isn’t my game. I would have let you play it. The whole game should be player names!!
I’m sure that Galaragga is no Masterson, so the Twins should score in bunches.
wait, Punto got a hit off of him. Looks like he’s a lock to play tonight.
