Monday night showdown: Livan vs. Pettitte
Posted on June 2nd, 2008 – 10:24 AMBy Joe Christensen
ESPN is back tonight for Game 4 of the Twins/Yankees series, featuring a showdown between veterans Livan Hernandez and Andy Pettitte.
On paper, this looks like another mismatch. As Randball noted last week, Hernandez is on pace to become the first pitcher since Phil Niekro in 1979 to allow 300 hits in a season.
Against some teams, Hernandez can pitch around trouble, but the Yankees have historically hurt him with their patient approach. In four career starts against the Yankees, Hernandez is 0-3 with a 6.08 ERA, with 26 hits and 16 walks allowed in 23 2/3 innings. That’s a WHIP of 1.77.
Pettitte is 8-5 with a 3.52 ERA in 17 career starts against the Twins, which doesn’t include his seven-inning gem in Game 2 of the 2003 Division Series.
Hernandez has only faced the Yankees only once since 2002, and that came June 13, 2007 for the Diamondbacks. Hernandez gave up nine hits and five walks in four innings, including home runs by Alex Rodriguez, Jorge Posada and Hideki Matsui.
But with Hernandez, nothing surprises me. Three weeks ago, ESPN did the Monday game when Hernandez faced the Red Sox. I thought that would be a mismatch, too, but he held Boston to three runs in six innings, repeatedly wiggling out of trouble, despite allowing 10 hits, in a 7-3 victory.
Hernandez is 6-2 with a 4.60 ERA and the Twins are 9-3 in his starts. Tonight, we’ll see if the magic continues.
107 Responses to "Monday night showdown: Livan vs. Pettitte"
we have to win tonight to split the series and I will be happy enough with the split
We can beat Petite (how many T’s does that guy need?) if we bat Redmon in the three hole. Maybe DH, I don’t know.
let’s hope livan doesn’t pitch himself out of decent trade value. all those base hits have to catch up to him at some time.
however, he has surprised me before.
Livan is a big game pitcher watch out Yankees.
Key for Livan tonight is first pitch strikes and no walks - I guess that’s not so profound as it is the key for every pitcher. But Hernandez can’t get a strikeout if needed and if he gets behind, the Yankees will blast his pitches all over the park.
Eephus pitch to A-Rod. Eephus pitch to Jeter. Eephus pitch to Giambi. Eephus pitch to Matsui. Eephus pitch to Abreau
Reprinted, with Craig’s permission. Ha-ha.
Punto was a little sore on Sunday, but he will be in there, as the everyday SS. Gardy has made his decision.
Adam Everett could change that decision when he returns. Everett should be back and able to throw normally. He has a stress reaction in his shoulder. Rest should afford him a 100% cure, according to his doctors. Everett will give Gardy some nice depth, along with Punto at SS.
Lamb can hit, but solid glove-work at 3B has been absent. I think Lamb eventually becomes the primary DH.
Gardy will have some better options at 3B, as players heal up, with Tolbert and possibly Punto, filling the 3B void. Harris also needs to play a little, somewhere.
Gardy is smart sticking Redmond in the number three slot, when Mauer rests. Redmond is a good hitter, and there’s no sense shaking up the lineup, for one game.
The Twins could go with 13 pitchers, but I doubt if they do it, unless they could find a taker for Kubel or Monroe. 13 pitchers would be a very wise move.
The Twins have too many no-field types.
jimmy bee
I forgot about that strike out pitch. Can he throw it three times per at bat to get the strike out?
The Yankees do not respect the eephus pitch at all they will pay for that tonight.
Eephus pitch. Encountered my first one in softball. Screwed myself into the ground swinging before it even arrived.
Wicked, nasty, pitch. Nothing to mess with.
im scared that they will torment us all night because a-rod will send that 60 mile per hour curve in the left field upper deck (yes left field) 3 times….
I would be in horror if the Eephus pitched was ever absent from an outing for the Twins when Livan pitches
intentionally walk A-Rod (aaron rodgers?) everytime and show him how nick Pee-You-nto felt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eephus_pitch
The Bugs Bunny curve.
at least kubel will probably not be in the lineup tonite…..when will they figure out this guy is just a slug and will never live up to his top billing….get over it and get on with finding his replacement….and please put monroe back in this lineup and let the man hit..this is what that man does….i would also like to see harris back at ss —if gardy has to play punto maybe he should think about 3b—–
free kubel please
Jeez Craig, is THAT a long article! And it has even been “Wikified” yet!
Livan has the “Leephus” pitch.
I liked that.
Boof should learn how to throw the Knuckle curve. I would love it if the Twins would get a knuckle ball thrower
Carlos Silva got rocked again. How long will it take for teams to realize it’s all Anderson and not the individual pitchers. Livan will be backing up the brinks truck after this season.
mj1
Just because Kubel hasn’t lived up to his top billing, doesn’t mean that they should get rid of him.
Monroe is a strike out machine and he isn’t going to hit 50 homeruns to make up for that fact.
I would like to see him get more at bats and with Cuddyer and Young not producing this year, it would seem he should have more at bats than he has so far.
At the end of the day, with Kubel and Monroe handling most of the DH duties, the Twins are producing much more of the DH this year than last, which is a good thing.
Monroe walks back to the dugout with his hat in his hands, about once every 3 AB, having accomplished nothing, hitting only air. This doesn’t go over well with the Twins, who believe in making contact, and advancing the base runners.
I think the Twins see, 250 - 300 AB for Monroe, over the course of the season, as more than enough.
Craig a power hitter who strikes out a lot that’s odd but you right the Twins don’t need a guy like that in the lineup every day. I would rather see Cuddy or Young hit into double plays then strike out.
My 2 favorite Punto moments this year were:
1. Punto being put in Left Field.
2. Punto being intentionally walked to get to Gomez.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoyt_Wilhelm
Click on the Baseball Reference link at the end of the article and check out Hoyt’s ERA from age 38-45.
BC of ND-if Anderson is what makes the Twins pitchers successful how do you explain Bonser, Lohse, Milton, Mays(just to name a few) that Anderson has worked with, supposedly had great ’stuff’ but never amounted to anything with the Twins?
BC of ND,
Everyday players usually hit into 10- 30 DP a year depending on their speed.
If an everyday player cuts his strikeouts from 150 down to 50, he doesn’t hit into 100 more double plays.
In that hypothetical situation, a player probably wouldn’t hit into any more double plays, because he learned better bat control, in order to decrease his strikeouts.
There is no known strikeout-HR correlation. There are plenty of HR hitters who don’t strikeout much, and singles hitters who K quite a bit.
Pitching and batting coaches are like the trainers at your fitness club. They get you on a routine, make sure you stick to it, give you encouragement, make a few points here and there. The players still have to do the heavy lifting.
One thing I do know for certain - Anderson is a 1000% improvement over Dick Such!
TK said, the fact that he watched Rich Becker strikeout 130 times, was proof he was patient with young players.
Gardy will have even better proof with Carlos Gomez. That guy’s swing really needs work.
Choke up on the bat. Hit the ball to RF and up the middle. Hit the ball on the ground. Shorten the swing, especially with 2 strikes.
Those are the keys, for Carlos Gomez. I hope the Twins can teach him that. Vavra is a sensational hitting coach. Only TK would be better.
BC,
“How long will it take for teams to realize it’s all Anderson and not the individual pitchers.”
You mean like Sidney Ponson, Kevin Cameron and Matt Garza?
zwiefs thats was more of a rip on Silva but Anderson is great at getting the most out of a pitchers potential. I don’t think any of the pitchers you mentioned had great stuff.
As a team, the Twins need to cut down on strikeouts. It’s getting ridiculous. Monroe and Harris will be playing less, that will help. Gomez needs help. That swing is out of control.
Craig maybe it’s best to play Punto in CF and send down Gomez so he can work on his swing and save service time. If Punto played everyday he’d have 4 hr’s and all those steals. He just needs a full time chance. Obviously that’s what the Yankees think or they wouldn’t have walked Punto to get to Gomez.
It does seem like we are striking out alot, but if you look at the numbers, we are only 22nd in the mlb
“Where are all the fans? Why aren’t they coming to games?”
The fans are too cheap to go to the games. They would rather bitch about the Twins cheap owner on the blogs.
Doesn’t cost a thing!
Kubel is a strike out machine. Monroe has proven to be clutch. Tough for a guy to get in his groove when he only plays once a week. Pitching decisions need to be made and quickly. 13 pitchers? C’mon…what does that tell you about Bonser and Rincon?
Dennis Eckersley would have had a hayday pitching to Gomez with that breaking ball that starts on the outer corner and breaks off and away from home plate
The key to Gomez is pitch recognition. When he’s seeing the ball well, he lays off that slider. When he’s not, he swings at it. Right now, he’s in a slump with pitch recognition. Hopefully it’s a short one.
sid it’s the economy st…! if i drive up for a game now it will cost me $100 in gas for the trip. every time you go in the store stuff costs more. having extra cash for a ball game could get to be a problem by summers end.
tony: so’s are rated 1st being least # of so’s so with 26 teams 22nd is not good, very close to the worst.
Maybe the fans don’t want to pay to see LNP as their non-hitting, showboating everday SS, or Rincon brought in when the game is on the line.
hey jimmy bee,
I know you have been waiting a long time for this… How did you like the Minnesota summer yesterday? Perfect day for outdoor baseball. No snow. No rain. No hail. No lightning. Just bright sun and warm rays.
Might not be the case tonight though. Time to sit under the grungy tarp again.
I think jimmy forecasted snow for this weekend he was planning on making a LaPanta/Coomer snowman tandem.
The Yankees aren’t that good but Livan has been hit and miss this year. Should be an interesting showdown between two teams that won’t make the playoffs!
Kubel, the “strikeout machine” has two more strikeouts than Monroe in 78 more at bats.
Monroe = K in every 3 AB’s
Kubel(strikeout machine)= K in every 5
Carlos G says:
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
hey jimmy bee,
I know you have been waiting a long time for this… How did you like the Minnesota summer yesterday? Perfect day for outdoor baseball. No snow. No rain. No hail. No lightning. Just bright sun and warm rays.
Might not be the case tonight though. Time to sit under the grungy tarp again.
lOVED IT CARLOS G. I went and hit a bucket of Golf Balls and not in a dome this time. Thank’s. We need to win tonight to even the series and the dome will provide us with a good shelter to arrange this evening up.
“Craig maybe it’s best to play Punto in CF and send down Gomez so he can work on his swing and save service time. If Punto played everyday he’d have 4 hr’s and all those steals. He just needs a full time chance. Obviously that’s what the Yankees think or they wouldn’t have walked Punto to get to Gomez.”
what the ….,
I know what you are saying. So many positions and only one Punto. It’s a shame.
Right on Craig if only Punto could be cloned Gardy would be a happy camper playing every position I’m sure Gardy would even let him pitch, he’s that valuable.
It’s to bad they didn’t listen to you last winter but instead of trading Morneau for pitching trading him for a couple more Punto’s. We’d be in hog heaven then.
Gobble,
21 teams have struck out more than the Twins this year and only 8 have struck out less.
Therefore the Twins don’t strike out very much.
Sadly though, they doesn’t translate into walks, as they are only 26th in walks (i.e. 25 teams have more walks).
what the …. says:
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Right on Craig if only Punto could be cloned Gardy would be a happy camper playing every position I’m sure Gardy would even let him pitch, he’s that valuable.
It’s to bad they didn’t listen to you last winter but instead of trading Morneau for pitching trading him for a couple more Punto’s. We’d be in hog heaven then.
When they made Nicky, they broke the mold. So Nicky made his own clone… Nicole is already heavier than Nicky and just a couple inches shorter.
What happens if the Twins decide to waive Breslow when Baker comes back? I’m not sure why they picked him up if they knew none of there pitchers has any options left and they can’t keep 13 pitchers all year. I smell a trade coming soon.
“Therefore the Twins don’t strike out very much.”
The Twins have to do the little things right, in order to win. They don’t have a team full of sluggers to pound their way to wins. They can’t afford sluggers. The Twins strikeouts are way up this year. That’s not good for a team like the Twins.
Team strikeouts is a misleading stat because by definition a good-hitting team will have more at-bats and therefore more opportunities to strike out.
what the …. ,
Like all the great ones, Punto is one of a kind. Sure, nine Puntos would have the team at the top of baseball, but that’s only a dream. Punto can still serve as an example of the perfect Twins player prototype.
“I’m not sure why they picked him up if they knew none of there pitchers has any options left and they can’t keep 13 pitchers all year. I smell a trade coming soon.”
Either a trade or someone will be waived resulting in their loss or demotion.
A lot of Twins talk today on “Sports on Demand” check it out at 3:00 on:
Talkin’ Blackburn, Cuddyer, Casilla, pitching rotation and more.
Fun fact:
Throughout his career Nick Punto has struck out at roughly the same rate as Jason Kubel.
Is it worth it to the Twins to bring Adam Everett back after his DL stint?
Ben,
“Is it worth it to the Twins to bring Adam Everett back after his DL stint?”
Absolutely yes!!!!!
If the Twins are leading late in a game, Punto goes to 3B, Everett goes to SS (if he is healthy and effective defensively) and Lamb (or Harris) gets the rest of the night off.
BC of ND says:
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm
What happens if the Twins decide to waive Breslow when Baker comes back? I’m not sure why they picked him up if they knew none of there pitchers has any options left and they can’t keep 13 pitchers all year. I smell a trade coming soon.
Can you smell the trade a cookin soon
dacham: in the american league we are in the middle 7 or 8 out of 14 teams. (actually getting better)can’t really use the national league because they have the pitcher hit and not a dh so they will nearly always have more so’s. sorry for the confusion.
“Throughout his career Nick Punto has struck out at roughly the same rate as Jason Kubel.”
No doubt, Kubel has tried to model himself after Punto.
anyone know of a good bar to watch twins games in chicago?
Justin CB says:
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm
anyone know of a good bar to watch twins games in chicago?
Any place with bullet proof glass on the windows.
Like most players Kubel falls well short of, Punto perfection.
Gardy loves Punto. Fans love Punto. He has a huge fan following. Punto may be the Twins most popular player. A real fan favorite. Not on this blog, maybe. There are a few negative people here, always being critical of him. The people who buy the tickets love him.
So jimmy wouldn’t it be nice if they could make a big trade for some proven talent for a change? i wonder what it would take to get Matt Holliday away from the struggling Rockies?
BC, I’m thinking 10 bats could be an enticing offer for Holliday. However that may be too expensive for Pohlad’s comfort.
Sane/Ben/Allcon,
“Absolutely yes!!!!!
If the Twins are leading late in a game, Punto goes to 3B, Everett goes to SS (if he is healthy and effective defensively) and Lamb (or Harris) gets the rest of the night off.”
How do we handle Casilla/Punto/Harris/Everett/Tolbert/Lamb all at once? One will have to go… and that’s with only 12 pitchers.
My vote for the one to go is the one making the most and contributing the least… Everett (not that we COULD dump his salary if we wanted to).
BC it is fun to dream. If a trade was done it would be for a player that none of us had barely ever heard of before
Roto i’m being serious i would trade Young,Kubel,Bonser and Monroe but i doubt that would be enough.
It seems unlike last year’s Twins, this year’s Twins are playing the Central Division cohorts well (18-9), the best Central team in-division record. I hope they keep it up. If they do and play competitively against the West and East, they’ll be in this for a long while.
Hey, I’m not an LNP fan, like most of you, but is it his fault that he was a major part of the Pirranhas and the magical 2006 season and that the Twins wanted to keep him for $3 million, and that the twins have failed since Gary Gaetti and Roy Smalley to have something above average on the left side of the infield?
If so, explain it to me. He plays hard, is above average defense, and has never shown a bad attitude.
the Twins aren’t renting Holliday for a year and a half
Great take Craig, Gardy knows who the team MVP is and the P stands for Punto! You could hear the excitment in the TV guys this weekend knowing he was coming off the DL and giving the team a very big boost.
Jimmy,
Tell me about it, there are white sox fans crawling all over my apt bldg and the city is filled with Yankees fans…. However, I do live 6 blocks from Wrigley, which sure beats the metrodump. Can’t wait until they get that new one up and running… might have to move back for that.
meister,
“How do we handle Casilla/Punto/Harris/Everett/Tolbert/Lamb all at once? One will have to go… and that’s with only 12 pitchers.”
Tolbert will be on DL, then followed by rehab for a time.
By that time, one of the other five will have taken a dump. If not, Tolbert goes to AAA on option.
Well put danimals! Punto is not satin incarnate.
At the moment, Tolbert is out well into July. Once he is physically able to perform, they will be probably send him on a rehab stint and then simply bring him up in September when rosters are expanded.
At the moment, don’t they still have 5 infielders for 3 spots, just like when the season started?
The question is, what happens when/if Everett is healthy? Maybe a season long injury??
That would be the way Sane, but Gardy will be very displeased over losing Tolbert, while keeping Everett and Harris.
I guess that’s why they have a GM and a coach separate.
what the…, craig,
You guys are better than George Burns and Gracie Allen with your Punto schtick!
Macri is optioned for Baker’s return, then one of the 13 pitchers will be sent out upon Everett’s return… Gardy has no intention of keeping 13 for an extended time, just during this tiny stretch of need.
meister,
I did say that if one of them is taking a dump, Tolbert could displace him.
If they are all doing well, Gardy will NOT be displeased.
Can Punto pitch? Maybe Gardy is planning on cutting Boof AND Rincon and sending Breslow to AAA so he can use Punto for long relief when he’s not playing 3rd, SS, 2nd, 1st or LF!
Plus, if Punto’s pitching, he ain’t batting
Sane,
I hear you… I just think Harris’ footwork is seen as a perpetual dump and Everett’s arm is as well (although, maybe that’s a soon-to-be cleared up injury issue, but I don’t think so).
I like Harris at 3B against LHPs. He played there 60+ games in 2006… mostly in the Minor leagues, but his play at SS translates perfectly to being able to handle 3B.
Was just checking stats on ESPN and saw the headline “Jeter Breaks Out of Slump”. Not surprised about Yankee favoritism in the headlines, but there is a nice little highlight video with the replay of Morneu’s HOMERUN! That was the lamest excuse for a relay try that I’ve ever seen. A triple and an error, correct? Sure hope he doesn’t lose the crown or something with THAT play!
I did the win analysis on Rincon and the Twins are only 8-13 in games he pitches…. I actaully thought it would be worse.
Shawn
How many of the games were the Twins already losing when he entered the game?
and that the twins have failed since Gary Gaetti and Roy Smalley to have something above average on the left side of the infield?
Corey Koskie says ‘hi’.
Meister,
He may be “satin incarnate” with his smooth fielding, but not SATAN incarnate (i’m assuming that’s what you meant!) lol
Casey Blake says “They never really liked me”
dacham,
i didn’t look into it that deeply. I expect that there were a few. But, he should really only be used in low leverage situations. I might look into how many inherited runners he’s allowed to score…. he record is average but he seems so terrible.
his record*
Shawn,
Rincon is walking WAY TOO MANY hitters.
But overall, his “stats” aren’t that bad AND May was better than April.
Last 10 appearances, 6 earned runs. 3 of them in the 19-3 loss to Detroit.
Take away Detroit and that is 3 ERs in 11+ innings.
I think the Twins’ bullpen has been so good over the last few years, we fans might be a bit spoiled.
We can definitely complain about the walks, but the actual results aren’t that bad - based on the stats.
Good question on inherited runners, but I don’t think even Gardy has had the guts to bring him in when there are runners already on. I think most of his appearances are from him starting the inning.
Ron Coomer says “I played 3b too you know”
They picked Breslow up because it gives then another lefty option in the bullpen. Thereby lessening the load on Reyes.
But Coom, he said “above-average” players.
Greg Gagne says “What am I chopped liver?”
They picked Breslow up because it gives then another lefty option in the bullpen.
And because he was free, absolutely no risk involved.
Brent Gates says, “but I played for the Gophers!”
ahh above average it was throwing Roy Smalley in that threw me off
Zoilo Versailles would just like to add “Beisbol been berry berry good,to me.”
LMAO at BC.
snepp did Killebrew play enough games at 3b to be considered the best 1b and 3b the Twins ever had?
Even in Coomer’s wettest of dreams he couldn’t be half the player Roy was.
Where’s the love for Mike Cubbage?
BC 3rd base ooh ooh ooh what about Terry Tiffee
Twins used to have a 3B named Greg Nettles. Whatever happened to him?
Did he ever amount to much?
I hate training people at work it interupts my blog time
snepp did Killebrew play enough games at 3b to be considered the best 1b and 3b the Twins ever had?
Definitely. He played nearly 1/3rd of his career at third (750ish games, 5 full season’s worth) and offensively he was at his absolute best there.
