Young shines in Twins’ biggest win of the year
Posted on June 3rd, 2008 – 12:12 AMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins’ coaches viewed Saturday’s 7-6, 12-inning loss to the Yankees as the most disappointing defeat of the year. I gathered this the next morning, as they were getting ready for Sunday’s game.
It was worse than the back-to-back losses in Detroit in mid-April, when the Twins kept blowing late-inning leads. They just had so many chances to win Saturday with one meaningful hit, and missing that opportunity against the Yankees only made it worse.
Now, two nights later, the Twins are enjoying their biggest win of the year. I don’t think I’m overstating that. So many important things came together in Monday’s 6-5 victory over the Yankees.
Joe Mauer, Michael Cuddyer, Delmon Young, Matt Guerrier, Joe Nathan, Carlos Gomez, Alexi Casilla — all of them played important roles.
And unlike the Twins’ five-run, ninth-inning comeback in Kansas City last week, you can’t chalk up this one to a ridiculous meltdown by an opponent.
Telling words
I thought Manager Ron Gardenhire’s postgame press conference was telling. He always opens with his own game summary, and he quickly zeroed in on Young.
“Delmon had a big night for us, which is a [confidence-builder] for him,” Gardenhire said. “Hopefully he’ll carry it from there and start really driving the ball.”
Young went 3-for-4 with three run-scoring doubles. The three RBI were a season-high. He went 8-for-18 in the series after Gardenhire benched him for the final game at Kanasas City.
Young had said he was looking forward to facing some pitchers he was familiar with from the AL East. It’s worth noting that he is now batting .643 (9-for-14) in his career against Andy Pettitte.
“We need him to hit,” Gardenhire said. “We brought him over thinking he’s going to be a good hitter in our lineup. And if this is the start of him getting rolling — which, I was told he’s a slow starter and gets going — that’s great. That’s great.
“And if it takes bringing in pitchers that he knows a little better to get him going, that’s fine, too. Whatever works. Just keep putting swings on like he did tonight, and he’ll be fine.”
All the hits were to right field or right-center. The Twins would like Young to turn on more pitches, as Mauer did for his first home run. But Young seemed to go with the pitch tonight, instead of forcing balls to the right side.
Whatever. If it’s a sign of things to come, the Twins will take it. Next up, the Baltimore Orioles.
“They’re in that division, too,” Gardenhire said, smiling.
178 Responses to "Young shines in Twins’ biggest win of the year"
How nice — a night with nothing to complain about.
Of course you didn’t say anything about Young’s defense.
I guess if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.
Same thing about the umpiring.
But it lasted 32 minutes!
mm, I didn’t say anything negative. It’s all in your mind.
What a game, what a series! Go Twins!
Thought on Rincon, ever since he tested positive for drugs he has gone downhill. He’s lost his consistency.
After last nights game, on KSTP Gardy was being interviewed, and he said it: You know, the “Delmon is only …………” thing (too ridiculous for me to repeat it). Hilarious, though.
A few weeks back, Bill Smith even said it!! Unbelievable! It’s a virus, spreading out of control.
Alan,
Check Rincon’s actual stats. It took two years after testing positive for him to go downhill.
craig-Delmon is only 22 is what i think he said.Of course it is ridiculous,hilarious,virus out of control to think a player could improve after age 22.I think you are using a bit of sarcasm here,but with you one can never be sure
I think its funny how your criticizing his defense that is what kept him in the game until a couple bad games before his day off. He has 7 outfield assists and made some other good plays but 2 boneheaded plays make you forget all the rest. I think its a joke for you fairweather fans who when he gets hot will be his biggest supporters
Well I will be glad to take 2 out of 4 games from the Yankees. In any case its better than being 0 for 4 in this series.
Travis,
On these blogs people really like to focus on the just recent game or simply the negative.
Many here believe Mauer is a bum because he doesn’t hit any homeruns.
Though today someone will blogging he is on his way to 20 for the season after last night.
Travis Aune -Fairweather should pertain to the haildamage i incurred over the weekend,not to the Twins fan base.
D. Young rbi double yeah nice hit
D. Young miss judged a fly ball to left field again damn.
D. Young another rbi double nice hit.
D. Young miss judged another fly ball to left.
repeat.
It’s a love/hate relationship for me and Delmon.
bc are you ever happy?
As long as Gardy doesn’t start Punto and has him come in and bunt in the latter innings and play defense, this team can win.
I’ll give Delmon credit for some nice hitting last night but his gaffes in the outfield lately have made me cringe. I see better effort (and judgment) from little leaguers.
What was with his tring to steal third with one out in the third last night? I was at the game and didn’t hear if he was trying to steal on his own or if it was a hit & run play (stupid in that circumstance) or what? Ullger looked mad and seemed to be barking into the dugout.
Sorry,he tried to steal 3rd with one out in the 8th.
He didn’t have any gaffes in the field last night. I was at the game. The crowd booed him for no reason on the play he had to charge in on. He could have played it any better. Nothing more he could have done. On the ball over his head in left center. He wasn’t going to get there, so he played it well off the wall. Again, nothing more he could do.
And there is no way you can question his effort!! How can anyone say he isn’t trying hard?
Judgment - sure, people don’t want to mention his age, but it’s the reality. It’s the way it is. He is that age, and because of it, there will be a few moments that make us shake our heads. If the game was easy, we would all be playing in the big leagues. If we were all as perfect as apparently we feel these big leaguers need to be, the world would be a wonderful place.
“What was with his tring to steal third with one out in the third last night?”
OK, that wasn’t necessarily smart, but again, do we know if he did it on his own or it came from the dugout. That would be one of the ’shake your head’ moments, but oh well.
sorry gobble i’m very happy about last nights win i was just pointing out the up and down game i saw from D.Young last night didn’t you have the same feelings? I know there were no errors but he definetly has a hard time judging where the balls going.
You’ve got to remember in 3 months and 11 days he’ll only be 23 years old, so cut him some slack.
Seth,
Thanks for the nice response. I am not sure what was wrong with his defense last night. He isn’t the smoothest looking OF in the world, but he covers a lot of ground. He is fast and has a rocket arm. Outside of a couple plays last week he has been pretty damn good in the field.
As for stealing third…he was looking at home plate as he was stealing which makes me wonder if it was a hit ‘n run. However, I don’t know one way or another.
Mauer was so confident he was going to hit the homer last night, that he shaved his beard before the game even started. What a cocky SOB.
SETHSPEAK:
Did you say fans booed a Twin’s player last night? Haven’t been to a ton of games, most in World Champ years, but I never noticed a homeboy booed.
That’s bush!
For everyone whining about DY and his age, just remember what you were doing at 22. Most likely trying stumble into Dennys at 3am after drinking yourself stupid. DY still has a ways to go, but let’s not overreact people. As for his “fielding gaffes” last night the ball that fell in front of him was much more difficult then it looked because the bat broke. The ball died on its way out there. I guess people expect him to be SuperMan on line drive to the wall. Stay judgemental blog groupies.
I think booing in general is pretty bush league, booing a home player is even more so… booing a home player for no reason is just messed up.
If we are going to spout off about defense Harris butchered a sure DP that led to 2 runs and why was Mauer 2 feet in front of home? Those were the game changers….even though the out should have been called at the plate.
We should give Delmon a break….I heard/read somewhere that he is only 22.
Nah - Lets pile on. Everyone knows he’s reached his peak.
There were some bad calls last night A-rod was definetly out at home plate they got screwed on that call and there were a couple very close plays at 1B i think Cano benefited from two missed calls there.
Young doesn’t look any better than Cuddy would look playing in left. Moving to the Dome is enough to make a guy look poor, but they want him to play left for the first time ever too. You have to know that Kubel and Monroe would be making spectacular plays on those balls, without question.
Nacho, which Denny’s did you go to? Think I saw you there.
At least Delmon’s field mishaps don’t cost us a division series like our old outfielder who was supposed to be great in the field
I don’t care if he looks smooth or not, as long as he makes the plays. He has made more plays in left this year than RonDL made in two years previous. Give him a break and let him play.
Hawk,
Very good fact to remind everyone of - he played lots of RF last year (his first full year in the majors).
And as every Twin fan should know, left field in the dome is not easy.
Through on top of that he is struggling, he is the “pile it on guy” of the moment because Mauer hit a HR and Punto has been hurt.
Plus, he’s only 22!!
Once when we were in our twenties (he he) my buddies stumbled into Denny’s at 3AM and sat down and started eating the leftovers from the customers before us.
I thought that was kind of funny.
Delmon is not a superstar, because he’s only 22.
You were a crappy baseball player, because you had no skills.
You are now an illiterate blogger, because you are stupid.
There are reasons for everything.
You guys crack me up please let all of us know at what age does a “professional” baseball player become a true professional? I don’t want to critique any players anymore until they reach the proper age.
Everyone pretty much agrees it takes longer than 22 years, 9 months, and 354 days.
(Boy is that hard to figure out!)
Mudcat you need to be more specific we need an actual age is it 23,24,25? Or is it years in the majors? I just want to know for future reference.
Critiquing is one thing…what happens on this blog on a regular basis is entirely different.
BC and Mudcat,
Unless of course you are Darryl Strawberry. Then you are a professional right away and then get worse the more you play.
He was kind of like Jonathan Winters’ character on Mork and Mindy.
This guy was 59 when he pitched for the A’s against the Red Sox. Bet HE didn’t get booed by the home crowd.
Why is DY getting ripped on here? The two plays in question were’nt easy, and it’s not like he made errors on them. Should he dive and let the ball roll to the wall.
1) he’s not graceful or “athletic looking” as Gogomez, but he’s fast and has a great arm (much more accurate than Gogomez).
2) the real focus of criticism for fielding yesterday could be Harris and the Natural (although his being in front of home plate there isnt huge considering his overall body of work).
3) DY drove in half our runs yesterday and was CLUTCH in THREE at bats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
everybody relax!!!!
AVG OBP SLG OPS
mar/apr 255 .298 .306 .604
may .264 .339 .358 .697
he’s heating up and will be fine by year. if he starts generating power i think our lineup should be:
1)gogomez
2)casilla
3)DY
4)Paul Bunyan
5)the natural
6)Cuddy
7)Kubel/Monroe
8)lamb/harris
9)harris/tolbert
that’s a great lineup. i know Morneau loves have mauer in front of him, but whatever.
it sounds like most of you think young is washed up so who replaces him?
in the minors with age included;
aaa-span 24, aaa-pridie 24, aa-martin 24, aa roberts 23, a- portes 22, a-tosoni 21, a-ovalle 22, low a-bensen 20, rookie-morales 18.
obviously most of these guys are busts at this point so who do you want?
As some others have pointed out, the defense we should all be concerned about is Harris at SS or 2nd base. Harris plays hard and is a solid all around player, but he is just not good enough to play middle infield defense at this level imo.
His range is very questionable and his hands aren’t quick making the turns at 2nd. If he was hitting it would be one thing, but he just doesn’t hit enough to justify his defense up the middle. I would be ok with him splitting time at 3rd with Lamb because his range is good enough for 3rd and he doesn’t have to worry about turning 2 at the bag.
How about bringing up hughes? can he play both SS and 2B?
Twinsfanrick- I don’t remember, I was too drunk. But I was pretty sure I was polished at the plate. I mean I had seen major legaue cailber pitching my whole life so the transition to hitting in the bigs was going to be no biggie.
And then I spell “league” erroniously. Cripe!
hughes is 23 so he’s washed up.
gobble who said Young was washed up? i missed that comment.
Regarding Harris - not to bring up the “he’s young/inexperienced” point with him, but this is only his second full year in the majors.
At the end of the day, he is probably a utility infielder, but if Casilla wasn’t playing as well as he is, we’d all be happy with Harris.
Let’ remember he is an infielder who can actually hit and has a little bit of pop.
If we just want fielding, just play Punto, unfortunately he can’t play 3B and SS at the same time.
“I don’t want to critique any players anymore until they reach the proper age.”
Everyone can be critiqued.
To not factor in his age, is assinine.
If you wet yourself when you were six months old, you may have been criticized but you were certainly forgiven.
If you wet yourself yesterday,
its much harder to get forgiveness.
Questions:
Is Harris better at SS or 2B?
Is Casilla better at SS or 2B?
dacham,
IMO,
Both are better at SS.
Casilla is better at 2B than is Harris.
sy i may have wet myself when i was 22 after my trip to Denny’s with Mudcat.
BC,
At 3AM, after a binge, we are all forgiven for lack of command of our bodily functions.
THATS when age is not a factor.
Sane,
So Twins still have no everyday 2B??
And instead of playing Casilla at 2B, shouldn’t he be at his better, and hopefully, long term position?
Or does this indicate that Everett is the SS when he is healthy?
bc from the tone of the criticism he must be washed up.
if i’m not mistaken, and i have been often, aren’t the twins the youngest team in the majors? not sure if that should be taken into account or not.
would we rather have a very young team making some mistakes or an old team on its way to the old folks home?
I would like to say something positive for a change. I’m very impressed with how Casilla has been playing this time up i think he’s finally started to figure things out and i hope he stays right where he’s at.
dacham,
IMO
For LONG TERM, Casilla should be at SS and Harris at 2B.
For short term, its Punto and Everett at SS, Casilla and Harris at 2B and Lamb (awful defense), Punto and Harris at 3B.
And it should be the short term plan until we are out of the race, then switch to the long term plan.
Baseball is a f-cked up game. The Twins could win the division despite their flaws. It would be stupid to write off this year prematurely.
gobble I like Young,Gomez,Casilla and all the young players they all seem to have bright futures but at the same time when i see them screw up during a game i get mad i know i shouldn’t but i can’t help myself. I didn’t mean to imply that he’s washed up because i don’t think he is.
For those of you continuing to harp on Delmon’s age, and whether it’s relevant, and how old one must be to be a “professional” - Tom Kelly always said he considered players to be subject to “rookie” mistakes until about 500 major league games. I think that will take Delmon until sometime in early 2010. Now, I can tell that you all know alot about professional baseball, but I’ll go with Tom Kelly on this one.
BC,
I agree that Casilla has looked good at the plate so far. If he can remain patient, hit the ball on the ground and get some walks, he will be superb two hole hitter in this lineup.
Sane - I agree with you. I think that they will give Everett every opportunity to still be the everyday SS on this team. This would mean, Casilla at 2B (if his offense continues).
Would Harris get some starts at 3B against lefties?
“Would Harris get some starts at 3B against lefties?”
He would if I were the manager.
i guess i wouldn’t think everett is worth keeping at this point. he doesn’t hit and he isn’t coming back next yr so give one of the younger guys the innings only make us a better team down the road.
imo leave harris at ss, not a great fielder but punto’s best coming off the bench with a spot start or a bunt or late inning defensive replacement.
SANE:
A fellow yesterday admitted right here that he “was not the manager, only a fan.”
I thought that was funny.
Not as funny as eating at Denny’s, but funny.
never seen hughes play and dont know where he is in his development as hitter or know if he can field well…. buuuut … based on some others enthusiasm for him on these blogs and seeing his numbers this year… kinda wondering if he can be legit ML 2B with casilla at SS?????
sane: as the resident expert i have a question for you. many people have asserted that the drug testing is now showing up with decreased velocity in the fastball and considerably less hr’s. it would appear many more players were druging than previously thought if this is true. could this be one of the reasons the twins have improved their hitting, i.e pitching not as good and our slap hitting approach is not impacted like many teams that stress the homerun? an example is the white sox who have been big homerun hitters for yrs and now these guys seem fairly lost. what used to be hr’s are now flyball outs. may just be a short term trend and nothing at all. thoughts?
Gobble,
I am convinced that the SS position is Everret’s to lose (and he won’t lose it due to injury). But if they move on, I agree with Sane, Casilla should be the SS and then Harris at 2B.
BTW
I do think that Bill Smith deserves a thumbs up for the first 1/3 of the season due the improvements in the off season of this team - especially considering the big losses.
DH - better
LF - better (even if one is down on Delmon)
3B - better
Bench - WAY BETTER
Who would have been batting instead of Monroe last year in KC when he hit the tying homerun?
Some of the arguments that have been happening regarding who should be getting more at bats is a good thing - it means there is depth!!
And there is not much talk of Redmond being the best option as full-time DH!!!
Hughes is the starting 2nd baseman in 2010 with Casilla moving to short. Danny Valencia is the starting 3rd baseman with power and a good glove we have yearned for since Gaetti in 2010. Tolbert will be the utility man. Harris, Everett and Lamb will be only memories.
Yeah, in all of this…it’s almost under-rug-swept that Redmond isn’t playing much anymore.
I bet he retires at the end of the year (he’ll annouce it before season’s end).
Morales will be called up this year as well. I think he’s still the top catching prospect…right?
I’ve wondered for years why the Twins don’t DH Redmond, he has to be better than a Monroe as a right handed option. And for gish sakes, get Kubel out of there when a lefty pitches!
DACHAM:
Would have been nice to get BIG NAMES when we lost our big names, but I like the idea of developing these young guys. Kind of like Christmas in July or “A Box Of Chocolates”.
As far as those BoSox and Yankee players mentioned in trades, who knows how hard they would have tried in Twin’s unies.
Morneau, Mauer and the Seven Dwarfs are out-hitting all but five MLB teams and all but TWO AL teams in BA.
(Five of the top 8 hitting teams in MLB are in the NL despite their pitchers batting).
The White Sox with Carlos Quinton (OMG), Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, Jermaine Dye, Orlando Cabrera, AJ, Joe Crede, Nick Swisher and Juan Uribe are hitting 22 points LOWER than the Twins.
Its too bad we fired Vavra in April, otherwise he could be taking some credit.
Wait a minute!
You mean the bloggers didn’t have the authority to fire the Twins hitting coach?
Sh-t!
I am holding the Twins Organization chart upside down.
Bob,
It’s pretty simple, you don’t play two catchers in the same game.
What is this love affair with Hughes??
I don’t think there was single blog about this guy from October through April.
Now he has a good average and has hit a few dingers in AA and his the future??
Highly doubtful.
BTW - Hughes’ position is noted as 3B, not 2B (though he may be playing both). Sounds like, at best, another utility guy.
gobble,
“our slap hitting approach is not impacted like many teams that stress the homerun?”
I am no expert, but your theory is very logical.
I would disagree that we have a “slap hitting approach”, but we do have a situational hitting emphasis approach.
We get ‘em on; get ‘em over; and get ‘em in; as opposed taking swings with high risk of hernia.
The Twins approach DOES have a better chance of success if the widespread use of urine cups has actually hurt the power-hitting teams.
This blog cracks me up. DY gets three RBI doubles and everybody rips him for bobbling a ball that did not result in any extra bases. It reminds me of the time Gomez hit for the cycle and everybody ripped him for striking out twice in the same game.
Give it a rest for a day. The Twins are .5 games out of first place, beating just about everyone’s predictions, and they’ve done it through injuries and without their two best pitchers (Baker, Liriano). They will only get better.
The Twins should pick up Bill Hall
Twins are fourth in the AL in runs scored.
Boof for Bill Hall
You can’t DH Redmond because if Mauer leaves the game, either Morneau has to catch or you lose the DH when Redmond takes over behind the plate.
iJP Punto as a catcher
The Twins approach will work as long as they continue to hit so well with RISP. Right now, they are far and away the best in MLB with a .307 avg. That makes up for not having much power. Can they continue at that pace? Probably not. That’s why they will need to find more power somehow or another. That said, it’s a tremendous credit to this team that they’ve been as good offensively as they have. If you look up and down the lineup, you’d never guess this team has scored the 4th most runs in the AL (only 3 behind the “juggernaut” in Detroit).
jimmy i was watching the game at a friends house last night and when Mauer came up in the 7th i said oh great here’s no power Mauer and sure enough he jacked one out i had to laugh thanks for the nickname.
Gee, I don’t think anyone has mentioned this for awhile, but isn’t Delmon only 22?
I thought Chris Fink showed he has a pretty good arm throwing in from centerfield!
Love this stuff!! Everyone should check it out.
http://media.myfoxtwincities.com/livestream/webcast/archive.htm
“Now he has a good average and has hit a few dingers in AA and his the future??”
The “What Have You Done Lately” approach to baseball discussion. 
Last year Casilla made several fielding mistakes but has improved in 2008. Delmon is a very good hitter, and will also make progress in defense. He has a good arm and plenty of speed. so far, most of his mistakes are misjudging the ball, or failure to make simple and safe plays. I am sure he will get better soon.
well, we (including people with their own blog sites) were saying the same thing bout blackburn “he’s only done well for 2 months - base everything instead on the lst 3 yrs and ignore what’s happening now. dont think about how he’s changed his approach or what’s he’s doing differently”
at some point we have to ask what’s this kid hughes doing to get this much power (doesnt he have 12 HR’s?????)
it cant just be luck or a typical hot streak.
i would love some insight from sane or seth speaks. i’d ask aaron gleeman, but he’s not on here and he’s transitioning to other media.
there has been a draft line going on len3 and we keep hearing, mostly from outsiders, how the twins build from within with great drafting and farm system.
13 position players on present 25 man roster, 4 are twins products.
12 pitchers and 5 are twins products.
now somw of these guys may have developed in the twins system after coming over but i wonder how these #’s compare to other teams?
gobble i think it evens out because every team makes trades and signs free agents to fill needs. Without checking i would say the Yankees are very close to us in those numbers.
iJP:
I think Lamb catches in that situation before Morneau does. At least that is what I remember from spring training discussion
Has someone been taddling on me BC for the LaPanta hair topic. It seems as though LaPanta’s hair has become flatter but his rug still has eyes
Check this comparrison out
How can Seth be so blind (above)…
The ball he let fall over his head in left would’ve been caught by most outfielders…he could’ve got to that ball…the one that fell in front of him also COULD’VE been caught…but that’s nitpicking.
But to pretend he couldn’t have done anything more on either play is blind homerism…especially on the one that sailed right past his glove…that play could’ve easily been made…I’m not saying it necessarily should’ve been made, but to say he couldn’t have done anything more is skewing the facts.
Seth is supposedly a respected Twins blogger here…to say that Delmon could’ve done nothing more on those fly balls AND to say that booing is Bush League when it is THE way that a paying customer is allowed to express his or her opinion is also not in touch with reality.
I agree that sometimes booing is very curious (why are we booing Jeter, for instance), but to say that booing a hometown player is always Bush League is again, blind homerism in my opinion…where’s the objectivity?
Kubel and Boof for Bill Hall
Bill Hall
Casilla hasn’t played enough SS for the Twins to know what kind of defender he is there. He has the skills (range and arm) to be excellent there. I wasn’t satisfied with Harris when he was hittingin .300! He looked like me trying to turn a double play and looked slow and uncomfortable at second. He has appeared much more comfortable at short and has enough arm to play short. If Harris is that much better at short, with Casilla at second, that is the way they’ll have to play for the short term.
If Casilla continues as he has, leave him alone! If Everett comes back and can make all the plays, then he probably is the shortstop for the rest of the year. Otherwise, Nicky gets the call.
My opinion of Harris is that his role will be three-position backup infielder and occasional pinch-hitter. Personally, I would rather see Macri platoon at third with Lamb, but my guess is that Harris will get the first chance.
Jason,
Maybe Seth was at the game AND watched the game.
Regards,
jimmy i think LaPanta got a tip from Marv Albert it’s starting to look better.
danimals,
“at some point we have to ask what’s this kid hughes doing to get this much power (doesnt he have 12 HR’s?????)
it cant just be luck or a typical hot streak.”
Unlike Blackburn (whose injury prevented him from conditioning properly for several years), Hughes doesn’t have a rational reason for his power surge. His performance has taken off for no apparent significant reason.
For that reason a “hot streak” is possible and the Twins are in no hurry to promote Hughes like they did Blackburn (twice) last year.
Maybe he is just hot, BUT NOT READY for the next level. (Unlike Little Siezure’s Pizza)
But, if he is still hot in July, the Twins may be forced to believe his numbers and promote him.
BC of ND says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
jimmy i think LaPanta got a tip from Marv Albert it’s starting to look better.
I want a rug that looks like Roy Smalley’s hair.
seth-booing equites to lack of atheletic ability or that life has trown them a curve ball.It’s easier to boo a professional ballplayer than to look in the mirror and boo themselves!
BC does Coomer use plugs?
ops-thrown them.
I have been watching the outfielders throwing arms and Cuddy has double the arm cannon of anyone in the outfield at any given moment. I have seen nothing special regarding Gomez’ arm or Young’ arm.
Trust me…major leaguers want to be booed…if their audience was reduced to a population who always cheered and lived by the mantra ‘if you don’t have something nice to say then don’t say anything at all’, their fan base would be reduced to the same crowd you see at a high school game and they’d be playing for about $50 per game, each.
Having your game carefully scrutinized and making enormous amounts of money doing it is what being a pro athlete is all about…that’s the very difference between a pro game at the Metrodome and an amateur game between Austin and Miesville.
Booing isn’t Bush League…booing is a rite of passage for any ticket holder of a professional sporting event and being booed is a understood side effect of the added importance that comes with the freakishly good skill and compensation of the pro athlete (they don’t need us to feel sorry for them, they can take it–just ask their financial advisor).
“I have seen nothing special regarding Gomez’ arm or Young’ arm.”
You have a vision disorder.
Or you need a glass belly-button to see with your head in that position.
“booing is a rite of passage for any ticket holder of a professional sporting event”
Especially booing children in the egg-rolling contests on Easter Sunday.
jon says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
“I have seen nothing special regarding Gomez’ arm or Young’ arm.”
You have a vision disorder.
Or you need a glass belly-button to see with your head in that position.
You must have watched to much of Johnny Damon this weekend. He has a mighty arm to compare too
jon if an outfielder has a stronger throwing arm then Damon it doesn’t mean that he has a strong throwing arm always
jimmy Coomers hair is sweet i wish mine looked that good.
Jason i think your rose colored glasses need adjustment please see gobbledygookguy.
Young and Gomez have powerful arms.
If you aren’t impressed, the people in the baseball business ARE impressed.
Your opinion is your right but you’re WRONG!
Another thing about Cuddyer is that he practices fielding bare handing to analyze how the ball moves with the different grips so that he can adjust his point of aim so the ball goes where it is supposed to.
Talk about advanced skills. In a bang bang play such as throwing Jeter out last night you don’t have time to get a proper grip, so Cuddyer just gets a feel for what grip he has and adjusts his aim to the type of movement he expects for the ball to get to the desired target.
In Jason’s defense, even Howard S on the next blog over called Delmon on his “inning of defensive difficulties”. He was at the game as well.
Talk about advanced skills. In a bang bang play such as throwing Jeter out last night you don’t have time to get a proper grip, so Cuddyer just gets a feel for what grip he has and adjusts his aim to the type of movement he expects for the ball to get to the desired target.
Jeter got tossed out like no one elses business. Young would have been off by a mile. Cuddy has a man’s cannon and Gomez and Young have cap guns
I think someone said Cuddyer was a pitcher at one time as well.
Has anyone noticed that when Gomez runs he looks like he’s dragging something with him?
sane,
it’s says on hughes minor league page that he was undrafted out of australia. maybe he clearly had the skills but didnt have the instruction in australia and now he’s catching up to the others his age?? i’d be excited if he keeps it up, b/c it’s basically like a “freebie”.
BC have you ever noticed when Young runs he looks kind of clunky out there
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jimmy bee,
what do you want out there a ballerina ala Jerry Rice or Willie Gault?
danimals says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
jimmy bee,
what do you want out there a ballerina ala Jerry Rice or Willie Gault?
Torii Hunter
jimmy i can no longer say anything bad about young players if he’s clunky it’s only because he hasn’t developed his man legs yet.
jimmy bee,
Torri hunter was overated. he knew how to time his leaps, but i dont think he had the greatest range and didnt freeze anyone with the threat of his arm.
from Aaron Gleeman’s site:
http://www.aarongleeman.com/2008_01_06_baseballblog_archive.html
“Kubel’s poor showing is surprising given his reputation for having a strong arm and it’ll surely shock most fans to learn that Torii Hunter had one of the least effective arms among center fielders. Teams ran more on Hunter than the average center fielder and he managed about half as many kills as would have been expected from an average arm.”
plus hunter rubbed all of the wrong way, the way he was auditioning for other clubs for 1.5 yrs.
plus i dont think he was the equal of gomez by a long shot on the basepaths. maybe he was closer to DY, dont know…. DY isn’t sexy when he runs…so what? lol
BC sorry if he runs like a studebaker compared to Ferrari’s
danimals,
“he was undrafted out of australia. maybe he clearly had the skills but didnt have the instruction in australia and now he’s catching up to the others his age??”
I think you are exactly right.
Previously, he was just struggling to keep up with the his more experienced teammates.. Maybe “a light just went on mentally” when he had learned enough and gained enough comfort and confidence to let his hidden baseball skills come to the surface.
thoughts on Hughes, for what it’s worth… He signed in 2002 from Australia, so I definitely agree with danimals that you have to be willing to adjust the learning curve some. He’s been playing on their international teams for awhile in the World Cup and the WBC and such. I know he didn’t hit for average or power in 2005 and 2006 in Ft. Myers. In 2007, he was a utility type at New Britain and did well enough to make the All-Star team. At one point last year, I wrote soemthing about Hughes being a poor man’s Jeff Kent. That’s probalby a bit lofty, especially considering I have never ranked him in my Top 50 Twins prospect lists until the current one where I jumped him all the way from not rated to 13th.
I’m not sure if I’m buying it yet. The power has been impressive. He also didn’t drop off the face of the earth in May after his incredible April despite the hamstring injury.
As for him playing 2B… I’m not so sure. He’s a natural 3B who has played 3B, 2B as well as plenty of OF, even CF.
I personally don’t think he should be promoted to the Twins now. I would like to see him bumped up to Rochester because he is probably better than several of their current infielders and outfielders. If he is successful there for a month or two, then give him a shot with the Twins. I personally see his future with the Twins more in that super utility role, which I think can be very important.
But the key to any prospect discussion is to remember that the most highly touted prospects sometimes become All-Stars and sometimes they flop. Sometimes guys come out of nowhere and become stars. You just don’t know. It’s about opportunity as much as anything, but once given an opportunity, it’s about taking it!
JASON:
I realize if you pay your $40 for a ticket minus the $3.989 per gallon discount, you can voice your displeasure, but young families are at the game and it’s not a good idea being a complete jerk and making a fool of yourself booing the home team.
It’s bush league. This is the Major Leagues.
also this hilarious story 2nd hand fron Gleemans site for today:
Over at his blog, St. Paul Pioneer Press beat writer Phil Miller passed along an amusing story about running into Carlos Gomez at a movie theater concession stand in Kansas City:
There’s one guy in front of me, and yes, he was like a kid in a candy shop. “Some of those, and a box of those. Wait, you’ve got Milk Duds? OK, a box of those, too. That’s it. That’s all. Oh, and a red licorice.” Finally, Carlos Gomez peeled off a couple of $10 bills and started scooping up his sweet-tooth loot.
I suppressed a laugh, just as Gomez turned and saw me standing behind him. First he looked surprised, then got that half-embarrassed grin that he so often sports, and shouted, “Hey, que pasa!” He stuck out his hand, then did that half-hug greeting that became the norm among pro athletes about 10 years ago and that makes me appear so hopelessly awkward.
I said, “just wondering if there’s anything left to buy,” and he smiled and headed for the theater. I noticed his showing of “Indiana Jones” had started about an hour earlier, so I pictured Gomez, his usual bundle of nervous energy, sitting in the theater thinking, “Candy. I need candy.” Probably more than once.
Asked later to review the movie, Gomez said: “Great. Exciting. Zoom.” Of course he did.
I love this kid! He’s hilarious.
jon says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
“booing is a rite of passage for any ticket holder of a professional sporting event”
Especially booing children in the egg-rolling contests on Easter Sunday.
Yah, and at the special olympics too.
Another way to look at the Twins and their prospects, specifically Hughes right now, is to figure out who the 2010 Twins roster could or should (or MIGHT) be. Obviously that is impossible to do since there will be trades and signings and such, but it’s something…
C - Mauer, 1B - Morneau, LF - Young, CF - Gomez, RF - Cuddyer, DH - Kubel. That means that 3B, SS and 2B are the three positions in question. As of today, my thoughts are that the infield in 2010 will be Valencia at 3B, Plouffe at SS and Casilla at 2B. Of course, that is subject to change. But I don’t see Hughes being much better than any of them. Knowing Gardy, he will have Matt Tolbert as a utility infielder (although I might argue that Steve Tolleson would be a better option). I think Hughes would be a great super utility guy to play 2B, 3B, OF, DH or be a right handed pinch hitter with some versatility and pop.
rory says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
jon says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
“booing is a rite of passage for any ticket holder of a professional sporting event”
Especially booing children in the egg-rolling contests on Easter Sunday.
Yah, and at the special olympics too.
All is fair at the spelling bee’s as well
DANIMALS:
In your earlier post you commented on Torii Hunter and Delmon Young. You made a statement one was over rated.
I guess I have a little difference of opinion with your choice, LOL.
Sure was nice that the game was on Espn. Is there anyone else out there that is getting tired of listing to Dick Bremmer. I love listing to Bert, but that other guy is getting to be real annoying.
I don’t know what to tell you, Mudcat…we disagree big time.
In my opinion, you’re dreaming of a delusional world that we don’t live in.
“It’s bush league. This is the Major Leagues.”
I’m afraid you have it completely backwards: If you were booing at a little league or high school game, that would be Bush League. At the major league level (to steal a phrase from Bert), booing is as much a part of the game as hotdogs and the Seventh Inning stretch.
Being a complete jerk is a whole other matter–whether or not there are small kids involved or not–there is no excuse for being a jerk to other fans at the ballpark…but I certainly do not equate booing with being a jerk.
But you can shed a tear for the poor players if you want, they will laugh themsleves to the bank either way.
Like it or not, timely and appropriate booing (which Minnesota fans seem incapable of) does send an important message–fans who invest a lot of money in the team are not just going to sit back and adhere to consistently poor play. Nor should they have to.
This is, after all, the Major Leagues.
Mudcat I don’t know of anyone else that calls Torii overrated
Seth,
I see Kubel dropping out of the picture by then, as he may be in that range where he’s good enought to be on the team, but has too many years to command money that the Twins dont think he is worth it for. How many years till he has arbitration - i forget. Well, it’s good we’ll have at least a couple good 3B prospects by then.
I once booed the Pope for missing a key genuflect during his Easter mass. No excuse for that.
Flatblade
FYI
Casilla was a shortstop but only moved to 2B after Bartlett made it to the big leagues as the starting SS.
danimals it’s sacreligious to suggest that Kubel might ever be out of the picture…don’t you know this guy was hitting the crap out of the ball when he was in the minor leagues????
We have to keep Kubel…in fact..we have to play him more…thank God we didn’t aquire Frank Thomas and his .319 average, 4 HR, 16 RBI, and .417 OBP since joining the A’s…
danimals - Kubel was arbitration-eligible this past offseason. He will be the next two offseasons… I believe he would become a free agent after the 2010 season.
I like to booo the skateboarders who go down really hard at the parks
Jimmy Bee,
Cuddyer may have a better arm than Young, but Young is no slouch:
2007 OF Assists
Cuddyer - 19
Young - 16
2008 OF Assists
Cuddyer - 5
Young - 7
BC, was it a bush league pope or the big league one? You know “Big Poppa”?
Seeings how this is Election Day in some places, which choice would the majority vote to accept?
“To Boo or not to Boo, that is the question.”
I’m talking about big time oraficious jeering! ! !
Hey Seth, give it a rest trying to predict the 2010 line-up. If you had tried to guess the 2008 line-up in June 2007, how many would you have right? It’s an exercise in futility to try to prediect that far in advance.
Mudcat, Jimmy Bee,
I’ll always be grateful for the time we had Hunter, but toward the end he was becoming overated (to the tune of $90million). his defense WAS overrated b/c of his highlight reel of catches, and he took over 3 yrs to develop as a hitter. compare to gomez already (although i guess Gomez may regress *crossing fingers)
*… over 3 years in the majors to develop as a hitter
bc: i don’t have rose colored glasses and have been doing my share of bitching, especially vavra and punto but i don’t feel i have to complain and bitch every day. we’re a 1/2 game out and had a real nice come back win last night and a fun game it’s ok to be happy with your team even if for only a day.
on the other hand it may be that some people need to complain every day, if so that’s their right.
just remember, gobble, when we lose…you’re prohibited from saying anything positive about the club, too!
once in a while people over react both ways on here if you haven’t noticed.
speaking of hunter above:
ave .275, 7hr, 26 rbi, obp .338 think these #’s are worth 18 mill a yr?
not much different than kubel’s
yeah i noticed too that Hunter was off to a slow start…but to compare him to Kubel is kind of slanted, considering the added defensive value Hunter brings (Gleeman’s computer data notwithstanding), and considering Kubel is now down to .238 on the ‘ol batting average.
Still a good point, though, you have to wonder if Hunter is going to be worth the money for the Angels.
Any lineup predictions tonight against some guy named Liz from Baltimore?
I’ll throw one out there…
Gomez
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Young
Kubel
Lamb
Harris
Seems okay to me (although I still think Monroe has to be given more of a shot AND I have a feeling Punto finds his way in the lineup, of course)
gobble i was only teasing you. I’m happy BC from now on. I will however boo the peanut vendor if he throws me cracker jacks by mistake again. The idiot.
Dacham:
I may have poorly worded what I said–have you seen Casilla play more than 20 innings at short? I haven’t. That is my point. We Twins fans, unless we are able to watch the New Britain Rock Cats and Rochester Red Wings, have not seen Casilla play enough SS to know whether he would be a good defender at that position.
As I said earlier, he has the skills to be very good there, but would he?
Liz is the same as Daniel Cabrera. If the Twins have patient at bats, they should do well against him. If they are hacking, he could have a good performance. Liz has thrown a no-hitter each of the last two years in the minors. He’s got great stuff, just really struggles with control.
as for your lineup, Jason, I’d flip-flop Kubel and Young and I’d bet you’ve got it.
Starting Lineup Tonight: (Take it to the Bank)
Gomez CF
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer RF
Kubel DH
Young LF
Lamb 3B
Punto SS
Pitching K-Slow
You know, it’s funny. I know you get more with honey than vinegar, but Delmon Young was terrible the majority of the time against the Yankees. Yet, Gardy insists to praise him. His golf club swing along should have been enough to pull him out against theYanks Saturday night and he had miscues throwing the ball in. I just don’t understand Gardy’s attitude. I think Delmon Young deserves to sit on the pine until he works his kinks out.
You don’t reward Young with the sixth spot after last night, Seth? Or is it a L-R-L thing?
The Twins beat Liz last year 8-1 he gave up 5 ER in six innings.
Bill,
How does one work the kinks out sitting on the pine? Why not just cut him?
Regards,
I think Bill must have been in a coma during Young’s 3 rbi doubles last night…a year ago we would’ve moved Heaven and Earth to find a player who could muster 1 rbi double in a game, much less 3…
As defense is overrated in baseball, I’ll take that kind of offense any day, thank you very much.
C’mon DY it is slap the ball in the dirt and run night.
prediction:
DY pulls one over the left field fence in the 4th inning. any questions? 
“DY pulls one over the left field fence in the 4th inning. any questions?”
which side of the fence will he be on?
BC of ND.
LOL… he’ll be on “our” side, how’s that?
BC of ND says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
“DY pulls one over the left field fence in the 4th inning. any questions?”
which side of the fence will he be on?
lol
Delmon is hitting like Torii but without the HR’s and oh yeah with much more errors. I preffer him much more then Hunter
I’m so tired of watching these bums that the Twins have in the outfield now. Gomez=BUM, Cuddyer=BUM, Young=BUM. What would it take to get last years guys back. Now those were some good players. Lew Ford, Jason Tyner, Spiderman, Rondell White. That was as good an outfield as the Twins have ever had. I’d even take Dustan Mohr, Bobby Kielty or Brian Buchananon over any of these BUMS. They all stink. BUMS BUMS BUMS BUMS
Sounds good to me I was almost ready to call for one but i’m glad you beat me to it.
BC what would we need to give to get Bill Hall. He is upset in Milwaukie and we may be a good fit for him in the AL.
How about Guerrer for Bill hall? cant get something without giving up something. we could move bass or korecky into Guerrer’s spot and Guerrer could be Mwkee’s new closer??
B Hall would be a great fit for the Twinkie’s also he is a 3rd baseman.
