Slowey’s track record hinted at this dominance
Posted on June 30th, 2008 – 11:31 AMBy Joe Christensen
As longtime readers of this blog might remember, I was fixated on Kevin Slowey’s performances last season for Class AAA Rochester.
He was named International League Pitcher of the Year after going 10-5 with a 1.89 ERA with five complete games and one shutout. His strikeouts-to-walks were 107-to-18.
Slowey doesn’t have an overpowering fastball or one particular off-speed pitch that dazzles. When he tossed a complete-game victory over the Royals on May 29, extending their losing streak to 11 games, Kansas City Star columnist Joe Posnanski mused:
His name is Slowey, for crying out loud. Unless the Royals find a pitcher named “Hangingcurvey” this was about as good a chance as they would get.
Posnanski, who might be the best in our whole business, would be quick to recognize now that Slowey is performing much the way his minor-league track record suggested he would. In his past four starts, Slowey is 3-0 with a 0.93 ERA.
All four starts were against NL teams: @ Milwaukee, Arizona, @ San Diego, Milwaukee. But try letting these combined numbers sink in for a moment: 29 IP, 3 ER, 2 BB, 24 K.
After his first major league shutout Sunday, Slowey was asked how it compared to the many dominant performances he had in the minors.
“Everybody’s a lot better,” he said. “They jump on your mistakes a lot more. But at the same time, the fielders behind you are much better. We made some great plays in center field. Something as a team we’re starting to get used to, and it’s almost unfair because [Carlos Gomez] makes highlight-reel catches every day.”
Note: Head to La Velle’s blog this afternoon for tonight’s starting lineups.
142 Responses to "Slowey’s track record hinted at this dominance"
After seeing Mike Lamb the other day I thought of Grizzly Adams so I went to Blockbuster online and they don’t have Grizzly Adams or BJ McKay and the Bear available. No good Dan Haggerty
Slowey’s performance yesterday was nothing short of fabulous. For a guy with no out pitch, he’s certainly been racking up a lot of outs lately. His control is reminiscent of Radke, and in his past few starts he’s worked hitters inside with the fastball much more frequently and effectively, and kept them off balance with the curve and change. And he’s really developed a lot of maturity and composure on the mound. You could see it after the last out yesterday. He didn’t pump his fist or celebrate on the field, I don’t think he even cracked a smile until Mauer put an arm around him to congratulate him. Very professional. And when you listen to him in interviews, you can really tell he’s got a good head on his shoulders. My vote for staff ace has to go to the Slowhand right now. It will be fun to see how he handles AL hitters in the second half.
Slowey was sitting at 91 with his fastball all day yesterday though. That’s not bad. He seems to come with that “not overpowering” but Ben Sheets was at 91 most of the game and slowed down at the end. Seeing the highlights on TV last night of the last pitch to Braun, FSN posted 93. I’d say either way, that’s not bad.
I’ve always liked Slowey!! Two complete games in the first half is not to shabby for a guy with “no out pitch”
91-92 MPH fastball is plenty fast when you change speeds and locate it like Slowey does.
this year Slowey has a ridiculous 54/9 (6) K/BB ratio. For comparison’s sake Santana’s is 103/32 (3.22) this year and 3.74 lifetime. To see how ridiculous this is here are some BB/K numbers of a couple so called control pitchers:
Maddux: 3.37 career (best season 8.37 @age 31) at Slowey’s age (24) 2.03.
Radke: 3.30 career (best season 5.66 @ age 31) at age 24: 3.63
Slowey in his young career has a 5.05 ratio and his ration in the minors was an even more ridiculous 6.94. The sky is the limit for this kid if he stays healthy
about the ‘no out’ pitch comments, let me re-ask a question I asked on Howard’d blog a couple of months ago:
what is Maddux’ ‘out pitch’ exactly?
Slowey has a nice live curve that is very effective when he spots it…
Honestly, Slowey has always scared me, but I’ve been coming around. I really hope he keeps this up, he’s been fantastic.
Maddux’s out pitch was a sinker 3 inches off the plate.
Maddux out pitch is getting the extra 2 inches around the plate by the umpires.
thrylos98,
Maddux’s “out pitches” are four varieties of fastball (described to a RH hitter).
1) A cutter that breaks off the plate outside from a path leading over the plate.
2) A cutter that breaks over the inside edge from a path leading off the plate inside.
3) A two-seamer that breaks off the plate inside from a path leading over the plate.
4)A two-seamer that breaks over the outside edge of the plate from a path leading outside.
Disgustingly simple and effective, and Slowey can do all of that if his command and pitch movement are there every five days. (like Maddux)
Slowey uses his brain. He succeeds with his superior intelligence. His stuff is mediocre. In order to win, he simply needs to be far more intelligent than the major league hitters. That shouldn’t be at all difficult.
Slowey can be a good #2 or #3 starter but without a overpowering pitch he can’t overcome days when his control is not laser like. He has to be close to perfect to have a chance much like Radke did. Baker in my mind has the chance to be the ace..
Saw Slowey pitch against the Phils in Clearwater this spring, a game the Twins won 11-3. He was outstanding, eventhough Denard Span and Delmon Young both lost balls in the sun that should have been caught. BTW, the Phils have a great new ball park if you’re ever in the Tampa-St. Pete area in March.
Slowey is cunning. Notice in Joe’s blog, how he praises the awful fielding, Gomez? The clever Slowey, laying out the praise, so the erratic fielder tries to live up to it. Genius.
FIRE,
I agree that “He has to be close to perfect to have a chance much like Radke did.”
But was Maddux not a #1 starter with comparable stuff?
Its possible (although difficult)for Slowey to be “close to perfect” 80-90% of his starts.
If he can do that, he can be a good #1 starter.
In his last 4 starts, Santan…
Matt Gar…
Slowey is 3-0 with a 0.93 ERA.
Now if we can just package up Livan and Lamb to McHale for Timberwolves first rounder for next year, it’s World Series time.
I think it’s too early to ordain an “ace” yet (and doesn’t really matter much), but as far as pitching goes, the Twins have a couple top of the rotation guys (Baker, Slowey), a third guy would can potentially be at that level, if not higher (Liriano), a serviceable middle /bottom of the rotation guy (Blackburn), a couple of guys who can be #5 starters or relievers (Perkins/Bonser) and a slew of untested arms in the minors, with Mulvey, Duensburg, Manship closer to the bigs at this point and probably in this order, so they will be in decent shape for the near future as far as starting rotation goes. If Liriano gets there, this team can have an Atlanta of yore-like scary young rotation.
Craig,
“Slowey uses his brain. He succeeds with his superior intelligence”
Very true.
But on the days that his command or pitch movement are lacking, he will get his brains beat out despite his superior intelligence.
“But on the days that his command or pitch movement are lacking, he will get his brains beat out despite his superior intelligence.”
Which is very true, but can be said about any pitcher, regardless of “stuff”. That’s why, again as it is for every pitcher, consistency is what it’s all about for Slowey.
if Carl was not such a cheapskate we could have Johan on this rotation as well and we would be sailing along
Sane, there aren’t too many pitchers to which that statement doesn’t apply.
Baker is good, but Slowey is the “Ace”. The sensational young arm, with the great stuff (Garza) now belongs to the Rays. That makes Slowey the “Ace”.
There’s something appealing about a clever guy with not much stuff, slinging it up there and hitting his spots. Fun to cheer for a guy like that.
The jaw dropping, awe inspiring, amazing stuff that Garza throws, is gone. Traded away for a bunch of junk. An arm like Garza’s comes along once every 20 years, or so. Don’t expect another one any time soon.
It’s time to forget Garza, and get behind our man Slowey. He is definitely the “Ace” of the Twins.
You are both right.
No command plus no pitch movement equals “go get the L-screen!”.for almost everyone…..to a degree.
Nolan Ryan and Joel Zumaya types can get by with much less command and pitch movement because when they pitch, many hitters are thinking about their own survival first.
I am not ready to annoint Slowey the next Maddux, Mike Maddux maybe.. the kid has kicked butt everywhere he has pitched so perhaps i had better not underestimate him?? I am encouraged by his recent performance, like you said consistency will be the key. if he can be consist and Liriano regains most of his pre-Tommy John form combined with Baker that’s the makings of a ALT Brave type pitching dynasty!!
Original Kevin says:
June 30th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
“if Carl was not such a cheapskate we could have Johan on this rotation as well and we would be sailing along”
If Santana and Garza were here, the Twins would be about 10 games up on the competition, the way I have it figured.
The “Ace” and the future “Ace”, lost to cheapness and stupidity. What a tragic turn of events.
Remember the buzz about his appearance in the FSL All-Star game when he was with Ft. Meyers? He pitched the first inning, striking out the side on 9 pitches. That’s when I started paying attention.
Re: Santana, last year made it clear that his stuff was not the same, mainly the velocity on his fastball declined, so hitters were sitting on it and were staying off his change up. There was a recent article in one of the NY newspapers where Peterson suggested that Santana can still be a successful pitcher if he makes adjustments to be a control instead of a strike out pitcher.
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080628/SPORTS/806280334
Somewhat ironic is the fact that Santana’s velocity is referred to as 90-92 (that’s Slowey territory). Unfortunately, it seems that Santana might actually be past his prime at 29, which is about the average age to enter the downturn of a baseball player’s career.
I think the Santana trade was one of the best moves the Twins made…
“An arm like Garza’s comes along once every 20 years”
Its a good thing that arms like Santana and Liriano come along every 4-5 years.
It makes the waiting much easier and worthwhile.
“An arm like Garza’s comes along once every 20 years”
“Its a good thing that arms like Santana and Liriano come along every 4-5 years.
It makes the waiting much easier and worthwhile.”
Thanks sane, well said.
“if Carl was not such a cheapskate we could have Johan on this rotation as well and we would be sailing along”
Original Kevin…Johan no longer wanted to be in Minnesota. He wanted the big stage, and got it.
With Cuddyer signed to a preposterous long term contract, he is impossible to trade. He will be the RF for the Twins, for the foreseeable future. Once he gets over his injury.
Span belongs in CF. He has the best glove in the organization, and should become one of the best players on the team. Possibly the best.
This leaves LF up for grabs, and no one else has been all that impressive. Luke Hughes might have potential to play there, if he can cut down on his strike outs.
time will tell whether Twins fleeced Mets in Johan trade.. I honestly thought Johan would dominate from the start facing the weak NL lineups and actually his before All Star Break numbers this year are better then his career numbers his ERA is half a run less his avg/OBP/SLG numbers this year are way down from his 1st half career numbers if the Mets were playing better as a team he would be more like 10 - 4 instead of 7 -7 and would be in the running for CY Young
Santana loved Minnesota, and wanted to stay. He just didn’t want to work for half pay.
Me thinks the Original Craig is diluting the New and Improved.
“I think it’s too early to ordain an “ace” yet (and doesn’t really matter much)”
Thrylos thanks for saying what I was thinking. When the season started I just wanted to see improvement with this team, and I especially hoped that the starting pitching would hold their own. They have certainly done that, and the future looks pretty bright right now. I don’t think it really matters who the “Ace” is. In years past, was it Koufax or Drysdale. Or was it Smoltz, Glavine or Maddux. Or in Twins history, was it Kaat, Mudcat, Camilo or Jim Perry? IMO, it really doesn’t matter.
I have one word to describe Garza,”uncoachable”. I have one word to describe Young “nagahb”(not as good as his brother)
Kevin, would Santana and his .500 record definitely be an upgrade to this team? Who wouldn’t be here, and at what cost for today, and next year, and the year after that?
Would the team even be close to .500 if Santana was still here? I have my doubts. We had Santana AND Hunter here last year, and the Twins were below .500. They also had Garza. Let’s see, last year they finished below .500 with an ACE pitcher, a top shelf Center Fielder, and a power pitcher by the name of Garza.
This year, that Ace Pitcher is pitching .500 ball with an all-star cast hitting for him in NY City. Hunter is putting up mediocre numbers in LA, with protection on both sides of him in the lineup, and Garza, well, he is still a head case, spouting off about his injured arm, being ignored by Minnesota, and then getting into an argument DURING a game with his catcher, about who-knows-what. Arm by Ferrari, head by Yugo.
I think that this team is doing just fine with the players they have, and to lament about the players that don’t still play here, well, that is just plain a futile exercise, since it is impossible to predict what their results would have been in a Twins uniform. Again, last year, we still had them, and came up severely lacking in the win column, this year, they are gone, and guess what, I prefer this years results to those put forth by that group last year.
“Santana loved Minnesota, and wanted to stay. He just didn’t want to work for half pay.”
I’m to think of a real sarcastic way to say,yeah…right!
The New and Improved Craig says:
June 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Santana loved Minnesota, and wanted to stay. He just didn’t want to work for half pay.
Agreed and neither did Torii. Who is the bad guy here the owner that wants to pay $2.00 a gallon for gas or the attendant that wants to recieve just the $3.91 that everyone else is getting.
“Its a good thing that arms like Santana and Liriano come along every 4-5 years.
It makes the waiting much easier and worthwhile.”
Maybe nobody told you. Those two aren’t pitching for the Minnesota Twins. One is in the minors, and the other was traded for a bunch of marginal players.
“Unfortunately, it seems that Santana might actually be past his prime at 29, which is about the average age to enter the downturn of a baseball player’s career.”
thyrols if you look at his stats this year he’s in the top ten in every category except wins. If the mets can start scoring some runs for him he will be where he normally is at the end of the year in all categories. I do agree that i thought he would be even more dominant then he has been.
After 2006, Baseball America talent evaluators using scout-derived information rated Garza the 17th, 19th and 17th best prospect in the minors.
Not very good for an “arm that comes along every 20 years”.
The same 2007 BA Prospect Handbook rated Delmon 3rd, 7th and 3rd best prospect in the minors.
BA isn’t perfect, but I’ll believe them on the “20-year-arm” call.
So, Craig in your estimation, is Santana worth 40 million a year?? Since from what I recall, the Twins offered him $20mil, and he turned it down. So by your words, he wanted $40 million per, since you said he didn’t want to work for half salary, or was that a misstatement on your part?
BTW, in your opinion, is it worth it to a Twins team to have Santana and not have any run support for him since you are not in favor of run support???? How many games can a pitcher win if he doesn’t have anybody hitting for him? Well, we all know that you wanted to trade Morneau for a pitcher, and use our imminently qualified Lamb as the first baseman instead.
“Maybe nobody told you”
But someone did tell me that they “came along” more frequently than 20 year intervals.
Me Too I think that it was the length of the contract that made it 1/2 as good being 1/2 as long.
I like our position regarding the starting rotation.We have 4 decent YOUNG arms in Baker,Slowey,Blackburn and Perkins…with potential candidates of Liriano,Mulvey,Duensing and Manship to round it out.
Me Too says:
“Would the team even be close to .500 if Santana was still here?”
Ha, ha, ha. Having one of the best, if not the best, pitcher in baseball, will ruin a team every time. What a knee slapper! I like your humor, man.
BC did you like the Mc-f-up by McFail the other day. Wheeeew stinky cheese
So, Craig, would the team be better or not???? Answer the question. And, provide quantitative evidence as well. No way can we go by your gut instinct, well, since you swung and missed on your Trade Morneau theatrics this winter.
“Would the team even be close to .500 if Santana was still here?”
2007 with santana, silva, garza, hunter, bartlett and castillo - 8 games under .500, 17 games out of first place
jimmy it wasn’t as bad a move as some people think. Why the picked another guard in the first place was beyond me but he was the best player on the board at the time.
Me too,
The Twins offer was about half what the Mets paid.
It’s an old story. He’s gone because Carl was a cheapskate. That’s the point Original Kevin was making, and I agree with him.
How can you say an arm like Gara’s come along every 20 years? Are you insane. What about Kershaw in LA the kid has a better fastball and one of the best curveballs in the game and he is a lefty on top of that. What about Joba he has a bigger fastball and a wicked slider. What about Volquez he has a better fastball and a changeup that disappears. For coming along once every 20 years we have had an awful lot come along this year.
Who is getting paid more then Johan? He is not at all pitching well enough to even consider paying him that much right now.
Hey Gardy is on espn radio right now.
Johan gives up HRs as if they are going out of style.
sane says:
June 30th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
“Would the team even be close to .500 if Santana was still here?”
2007 with santana, silva, garza, hunter, bartlett and castillo - 8 games under .500, 17 games out of first place
sane,
Your arguments are consistently anti-intellectual. There are other variables at work here.
BC next year we get Tyler Hansbrough just wait till you see his spaztic rebounding skills and uncoordinated moves to the basket that remind McFail of Madsen part 2 and little bit of himself. A must go getter.
He went to new york for a little more money and an extra year. If he really loves minnesota he would have stayed. The twins made a fair offer and he turned it down and thank god he did because paying him 20 something million dollars a year 6 years from now would be brutal.
I don’t get it, people keep talking about how Santana would have helped this rotation this year, but how can that be considered realistically?? He was here last year, and provided .500 ball. He didn’t do much to help the team win last year, as a matter of fact, he probably did more to harm it, by his talk about wanting out. Hunter, well, the exact same thing can be said about him, but in his case, he was much more cavalier about his comments. As is, this team is playing more like a team, has put up some good results. Scored more runs, and well, just looks more like a team without the players that everyone seems to be missing.
What is wrong with that statement? Maybe some people just can’t see the forest for the trees or something. I don’t know, but like I said earlier, what we know for sure about Santana, he pitched .500 ball for the Twins last year, he IS pitching .500 ball for the Mets this year, with a (Historically) MUCH better hitting and (Currently) higher paid lineup hitting behind him to boot. If that isn’t cause to rethink your lament about the loss of Santana, what is?????
Santana isn’t even worth his contract this year, just wait until year 6. Why you would want the Twins to sign him at that price tag is beyond me.
craig,
“Your arguments are consistently anti-intellectual.”
Are we going back to the “original” name-calling days?
Although I admit, I have been called worse than anti-intellectual.
Yes, there are other variables and that does not mean the team would be any better then they are now. There is no way of knowing if they would be better or worse.
Toby says:
June 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
“How can you say an arm like Gara’s come along every 20 years?”
What I meant is, comes along to a team. I’m sure similar great arms have come into the major leagues, more frequently.
lol I like his game more then Love’s thats for sure.
So Gardy was talking about this situational hitting exercise they do in batting practice now. I wonder if thats something Vavra introduced has anyone else heard about this?
I think life could be worse just imagine the Giants with Zito’s contract.
arms that comes along every 20 years (or every other year probably) and their performance at age 23 or younger:
1985 Gooden age 20 24-4, 1.53 ERA, 0.965 WHIP
1985 Saberhagen age 21 20-6, 2.87 ERA 1.058 WHIP
1986 Clemens age 23, 24-4, 2.48 ERA, 0.962 WHIP
1988 Maddux age 22, 18-8, 3.18 ERA, 1.249 WHIP
1989 Gordon age 21 17-9 3.64 ERA 1.275 WHIP
1998 Wood age 21, 13-6, 3.40 ERA, 1.212 WHIP
2001 Oswald age 23, 14-3, 2.73 ERA, 1.059 WHIP
2003 Prior age 22 18-6, 2.43 ERA, 1.103 WHIP
2004 Peavy age 23, 15-6, 2.27 ERA, 1.196 WHIP
2004 Zambrano age 23 16-8, 2.75 ERA 1.216 WHIP
2005 Willis age 23 22-10, 3.87 ERA 1.134 WHIP
2006 Liriano age 22 12-3 2.16 ERA 1.000 WHIP
2006 Verlander age 23 17-9 3.63 ERA 1.328 WHIP
2007 Carmona age 23, 19-8 3.06 ERA, 1.209 WHIP
and
2007 Garza age 23, 5-7 3.69 ERA 1.542 WHIP
Garza’s arm is not a dime a dozen, but close to a buck a dozen…
They say that a few teams are looking at Freddie Garcia does anyone think he is washed up and just another product of the juice era
I don’t think the Twins would be any better with A-rod in the lineup either.
Anyone remember Liriano, at least before Tommy John? I don’t buy the ‘arm’ theory
sane,
It seems not many days ago, you were making a nasty remark about me, when talking to Seth. (Young vs Span). Remember?
craig,
sane,
It seems not many days ago, you were making a nasty remark about me, when talking to Seth. (Young vs Span). Remember?
I don’t remember “nasty” but if I was, I apologize and will grant you a couple of free shots at me.
BC I think that A-Rod will never win a world series ring. He is like Kobe without Shaq. Neither one from here on out will win anything I think. Bad images. On a side note can we ban fat kankle women from wearing flip flops.
Garcia had only one year (last) below average and he was hurt. He is older and would probably find a New York team to offer him an expensive multi-year contract. I think that he can be an average pitcher past prime starter with above average salary, but surely the Twins don’t need another one of those.
I have to say — the first comment on the archived thread that Joe links to (about Slowey) is perhaps one of the most insightful things posted to this blog…
it would be wise to ignore craig when he’s in the stir up the pot mood. sarcasim usually doesn’t work with someone being sarcastic but here i go
craig how about trading morneau for pitching?
GBG says:
June 30th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I have to say — the first comment on the archived thread that Joe links to (about Slowey) is perhaps one of the most insightful things posted to this blog…
jimmy bee says:
June 30th, 2008 at 11:38 am
After seeing Mike Lamb the other day I thought of Grizzly Adams so I went to Blockbuster online and they don’t have Grizzly Adams or BJ McKay and the Bear available. No good Dan Haggerty
Mee Too,
I wanted the Twins to offer Morneau for Bedard. I would still make that trade in a second.
The guys who stand behind the pitcher, do not matter that much, as long as they can field. All major league teams score enough runs to win the World Series. What matters is who is on the hill.
What would happen if the mound were to be lowered if it was like before.
gobbledygookguy says:
“……………. craig how about trading morneau for pitching?”
Do it!
The New and Improved Craig How bout Morneau for Peavy or Sabathia???
So, Craig, by your estimation, a team scoring one run with Santana on the mound would be better than a team capable of scoring more with pretty much any other pitcher on the mound?
If so, how do you explain away Santana’s record the last 2 years??????
Comeon, I know you have some intellectual reason that you will pull out of your ___
jimmy bee says:
June 30th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
“What would happen if the mound were to be lowered if it was like before.”
jimmy,
The mound used to be higher, and they lowered it. It was one of the huge mistakes baseball made. That, and the DH. I think both happened in the 1970’s. Baseball felt they needed to score more runs, in order to compete with football. MLB felt there were too many ignorant fans, who didn’t understand the game. They were right, but ignorance is overcome with education, not by placating and catering to the ignorant. Anyway, baseball took a turn for the worse. There are few things more wonderful in baseball, than a game that ends with a score of 1 to 0.
Thanks Craig. For the insight regarding the mound.
Me Too,
The Twins fielding went downhill dramatically, in 2007. The Mets fielding isn’t much better.
Look at Carlos Delgado. He’s even worse than Morneau, in the field.
Why is DOUG MIENTKIEWICZ listed as playing 3rd base right now at Pittsburgh
All major league teams score enough runs to win the World Series. What matters is who is on the hill.
If that were true, the Braves should have won at least 6 World series in the nineties…
i think they lowered the mound after the 68 season bob gibson had like a 1.2 era and the batting champ hit like .295.
they also knew bert was coming up the next yr and wanted to screw with him!
instead of steriods the hitters were all smoking dope and didn’t have enough energy to hit the ball because they were all full of oreo cookies.
“Why is DOUG MIENTKIEWICZ listed as playing 3rd base right now at Pittsburgh”
Because he plays a bit of 3B for Pittsburgh.
BTW, Jason, what happened to you? You stated that you would be overjoyed if Kubel exceeded your prediction, but yet haven’t seen you posting since he proved that your opinion is exactly that, an opinion.
Kinda funny, earlier this year, we had people bemoaning the fact that Santana and Hunter and Garza were gone.
Santana really has had a rough go of it in NY, Hunter is mediocre at best in LA, and well Garza, what can we say, he has been like the Garza we remember, flashes of Brilliance and flashes of insanity.
Now, Kubes has shown promise, Young has played reasonably well, not nearly as horrible as some seem to keep saying.
Gomez has been a good centerfielder, 4 homers and 8 rbi shy of Hunters highly compensated production, hitting out of a spot that doesn’t produce good rbi numbers either. All in all, I am really happy with what we are seeing. Youth will always equal mistakes, but at least the mistakes are coming from the youth, and not from guys making millions and millions. These guys have the hunger, and maybe, just maybe, that counts for something more than just having talent.
Give me a winning team, and I will be happy. Give me Santana and a losing team, and I won’t be nearly as pleased. Winning masks alot of problems, and right now, the masks are pretty dang fun to look at.
Hey seth i heard you on the radio last week good stuff. So what do you think the batting order will look like with Span replacing Cuddy?
Craig,
Your over-the-top “defense is everything” viewpoint is a good contrast to all the stats-obsessed commenters who want Piazza, Sosa, Bonds, Tejada, Atkins etc. on the Twins for their offensive numbers.
Their over-the-top “OFFENSE is everything” viewpoint would make anyone run to the other pole.
Especially when I read “move Mauer to 3B so we can get Morales more at bats as a bad catcher.”
My position is that defense is crucial, but it can’t stand alone.
I’m positive about the Twins, even though they lost two wonderful pitchers. The team needs to clean up their fielding and base-running, and a better DH would help.
Kubel must lead all of baseball in meaningless HR. He sure can hit them in lopsided games, when the pitcher is just throwing fastballs down the middle, trying to get the game over with.
BC is there a live feed on the KFAN website.
If Santana can’t win in N.Y. with that payroll there is something wrong. Carl did the right thing not caving in and giving Johan all that wasted money. Will Johan even make the all-star game this year? What a joke he is and so are the Mets.
jimmy i’m not sure i heard him on our local broadcast.
So Craig, who are these fielder than that Santana needs behind him to succeed? Are we talking players that are considered elite at their positions, fielding wise? How many of these players did the Twins have in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006? Did they all just disappear in 2007?
Hey jimmy at the midway point of the season who’s the bigger surprise the Rays or the Mariners?
sane,
I like good hitting, also. I think it’s just overemphasized. There aren’t many great hitters anyway. There are a handful of exceptions, but most MLB players are similarly mediocre. That being the case, you just take the best fielder.
I am always hopeful, that someday, there would be another Ty Cobb, the greatest ballplayer that ever lived. Barring a supreme hitter and base-runner like Cobb, I think you generally, just pick the best glove.
Me Too,
You may not have noticed, but Santana was an excellent pitcher last year, and is so, this year as well.
I don’t judge pitchers by their W-L records.
Santana an excellent pitcher this year? I really beg to differ. Giving up a grand slam to a pitcher….lmao.
BC Seattle though they haven’t done well since Arte Moreno purchased the Angel’s. The Rays to me have a good nucleus and they have good young pitching as well. Good sucker move getting rid of Young and picking up another good caliber pitcher especially when they needed a pitcher while still keeping enough power and run producers in there lineup.
craig,
“Barring a supreme hitter and base-runner like Cobb, I think you generally, just pick the best glove.”
Well, since we know that “Ty Cobb is not walking through that door”, I think that puts a heavy (over-?) emphasis on fielding.
Hey Duane the funny part is only one of those runs was earned so i guess defense does help.
Duane says:
June 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
“Santana an excellent pitcher this year? I really beg to differ. Giving up a grand slam to a pitcher….lmao.”
That’s right, give up one HR and you are no longer a perennial All-Star heading for the Hall of Fame. You instantly become Flunky Winklebean. Thanks Duane, for your input.
jimmy i agree i think the Rays simply because of the division there in but boy have the Mariners fallen completly apart.
Defense does help. With a payroll in the top 5 the Mets are a joke and a mess.
BC what do you think that Seattle would want for Felix Hernandez?
Craig-
Just because you have a man crush on Johan doesn’t make you a ‘Johan ” expert.
He’s also given up more than just one homerun this year too.
“what do you think that Seattle would want for Felix Hernandez?”
They’d probably want to throw in Carlos Silva.
Thomas99 says:
June 30th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Saw Slowey pitch against the Phils in Clearwater this spring, a game the Twins won 11-3. He was outstanding, eventhough Denard Span and Delmon Young both lost balls in the sun that should have been caught. BTW, the Phils have a great new ball park if you’re ever in the Tampa-St. Pete area in March.
I went to a game there last year and it was by far the best Minor League Stadium….the main reason being you can be in line for food (or just get in the shade for a little) and still watch the game, most of the other stadium have you go outside to the under/back side of the stands.
I’m not sure but it would be a lot. I doubt they trade away there future though. The mariners will lock him up i think.
So jimmy do you think the Twins will put Delmon in the 5 spot now or will they just move Kubel up?
saam says:
June 30th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
“what do you think that Seattle would want for Felix Hernandez?”
They’d probably want to throw in Carlos Silva.
Would we have to take back his 9 year old wife also?
Craig, I as still waiting on your reply on who these fielders were that the Twins suddenly dumped before the 07 season, since they must have had elite feilders out there in 03,04, 05, and 06 considering Santana had such ridiculous won-loss totals. Maybe it wasn’t just the fielders, maybe it was run-totals as well? Does it matter that Santana has fabulous stats, with the exception of the only ones that matter, the W-l ones? Does it make him a better pitcher with Great defense and no offense, when he can’t win either?
You have to score a run to win a game. Kinda hard to win when your team gets shut out isn’t it?
“Just because you have a man crush on Johan…”
Great argument, Duane. Clever you.
BC we already have No Power nickname for Mauer what can we call DY? I would put him DY in the 8 or 9
Delmon “He is only 22 years” Young
Me Too,
I didn’t care if Johan got credited for the win, or Guerrier or Neshek. I just cared if they won.
“So what do you think the batting order will look like with Span replacing Cuddy?”
I’m a bit concerned about the left hand of Alexi Casilla. He had two horrible at bats. The second one, he had to have Jerry White help him take his batting glove off. So, I’m not certain what his status would be. But, knowing nothing else, I would go with:
Span - RF
Casilla - 2B
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Kubel - DH
Young - LF
Buscher - 3B
Harris - SS
Gomez - CF
Nothing to interesting/different, I wouldn’t think other than Span at the top and Gomez at the bottom. I do like that Mauer/Morneau/Kubel 3-4-5 against a righty starter, especially with a team that doesn’t have a dominant type of lefty out of the bullpen. All three can hit lefties enough.
Thanks Seth i like that lineup. Isn’t Span a leftie as well?
Me Too,
The Twins didn’t have Radtke or Liriano in 2007, like they did in 2006.
The fielders were not so much a change of personnel, as attention to that part of the game seemed to vanish. Buscher and Casilla were awful in their short stints. Cirillo was bad, and Kubel missed almost everything in left. Hunter faded. Morneau and Cuddyer player beneath their mediocre skills. Poor effort, many places.
probably would be a good idea to have span bat 9th for a few games to get his feet wet.
what’s the over/under on how long it will take for the bitching about him not hitting enough homers starts?
I didn’t care if Johan got credited for the win, or Guerrier or Neshek. I just cared if they won.
Craig, if that is so, why are you so enamored by a pitcher that is pitching .500 ball? Why wouldn’t you want someone that is pitching better than that? Why would you settle for the same number of losses as wins, when we have been getting better results from the pitchers we currently have? Why wouldn’t you be happier with the current staff that has better results?????
Just wondering what kind of logic you are using here.
Hey gobble the good news is we wont have to face the Twins killer Ordonez this series, he went on the DL as well.
seth, i like the lineup, actually its the very same i posted yesterday, hoping thats what they do today…..i like span leading off and gomez ninth, as i dont think gomez is ready for that spot yet…well lets hope span gets off on the right foot, as he did last time up and lets hope this lineup of speed can make a big difference in the game, along with a long ball here and there…..also i think delmon is going to rock in this 2nd half, and if he does and finds some power, this lineup can be as good as anyone….keep up the good work seth….
span doesnt need to hit homers, he simply needs to get on base anyway he can and set it up for casilla and mauer- if he never hits a homerun you will never hear a complaint here…but i would like to see a .300 avg or very near there and alot of walks
Me Too - a pitchers W - L record is based on not only his own pitching but also if his own team scores any runs!!! you said “Why wouldn’t you be happier with the current staff that has better results?????” hmmm you mean SLowey with his 5 - 6 record why he must stick according to your logic..
mj1 we have a bunch of people on here who bitch on a near daily basis about how many hr’s different guys hit. kind of a misguided obsession with some, if you hadn’t noticed.
mj1, I fully agree. If Span can get on with a good frequency, it would be good. Nothing wrong with having good tablesetters for the big boys behind Casilla. Heck, wouldn’t be a bad thing for Casilla either.
I still don’t have a problem with Gomez hitting in the one hole, since his speed has caused many problems so far this season, or so it would seem. Casilla is getting better pitchs to hit, and seemingly has gotten more hits because of it.
All I care is, if the players play well, the Twins win. If they keep winning, I could really care less who hits where. BTW, I could care less how many homers the team hits, as long as they keep scoring runs.
I’d take Seth’s 3:07 lineup EXCEPT move everyone up and bat Span 7th:
Casilla - 2B
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Kubel - DH
Young - LF
Buscher - 3B
Span - RF
Harris - SS
Gomez - CF
Span has a terrible minor league career and shows 3 months of promise, and he’s the answer…
Delmon shows nothing but limitless potential up until the first 3 months of this year, and he’s a lost cause…
I’ll never understand some peoples’ logic. Here’s hoping that Denard “The Messiah” Span can improve on the .258/.324/.258 line he posted in his first callup… Sure it was a small sample size, but it also seems like people here have completely forgotten that he didn’t hit .330 with a .445 OBP up in the Majors.
Hope he proves me wrong, but I don’t expect much out Span at all… just don’t give Pudge another HR, Denard. That’s all I’m asking.
Steve - Cuddy is hurt Span is needed in the outfield.. besides he can’t hit much worse then Cuddy and can play def alot better
Umm, Fire, I was refering to the comment that Craig said about all he cared about was the team win, but yet he was lememting a .500 pitcher not being with the team.
I have always been a supporter of the “team” win, and alway will be. Slowey is a part of the team, and will be a part of this team for some time to come. I am certain that he count for more W’s than L’s in his career before it is done. His W’s and L’s don’t matter as much to me as the Twins W’s and L’s in the same timeframe though, nor will they ever.
Santana is a VERY good pitcher, but he has had a terrible run of luck for abit now, and for that kind of money, I would hope for much better results.
LaVelle just posted the lineup…
Fire,
I think the jury is still out on whether Span can play better defense than Cuddy. We know he can’t out throw Cuddy. I think we can be certain that opponents will be taking extra bases on balls hit his way. Whether he can hit at this level is also unknown at this time.
I hope he does well. Just didn’t see it earlier this year. Maybe the light bulb clicked for him as it did Casilla. I will be pleasantly surprised, if it has.
BTW, before anyone tries to correct me, Santana’s record is 7-7, his team record is 9-8.
Slowey’s recored is 5-6, his team record is 6-6, so I guess an injured Slowey doesn’t have the success that Santana has, but hey, I guess that 22 million has bought the Mets one game over .500 from Santana compared to Slowey. Pretty good bang for your bucks I guess 
Oh I know, I’m not questioning the move of calling Span up. Given his numbers in AAA, I think it’s a no-brainer.
I’m just confused as to everyone’s praises for Span and disgust with Gomez and Young right now. Yes, they’re raw and lack plate discipline, but I don’t think that just because Denard can draw a walk, he’s going to magically improve this team by leaps and bounds.
I don’t think this team’s problem is a lack of discipline, I’d say it’s struggles against LHP, and I don’t see how Span helps that or acts as a vast improvement over any of our other outfielders, but I hear talk of wanting him on the club full-time, platooning with Young in left, which I think is absurd.
Span’s best asset is still trade value in my opinion.
Eesh, I didn’t even see the defense part of that post. I misread it. I’ll take Cuddyer’s cannon out there any day, along with his knowledge of the baggy.
Span might be able to cover more ground, but I’d rather have Michael out there still, which is saying something, since I’m not much of a Cuddyer fan.
Span lost two balls and just dropped/completely missed them in his last callup, and also knocked a Rodriguez flyball over the fence in right at Comerica. I’m not overly thrilled with the concept of him playing right field…
I still don’t get the sudden rush of manlove for Span. Wasn’t that the same guy who stunk up the place earlier in the season with his bad and his glove?
Moving Gomez from the lead off spot when the team won 13/15 games is a bit unusual. The other thing I do not get, is why Gardy did not keep yesterday’s line up (ie. Kubel at RF, Monroe DHing) given that Monroe has publicly said that he was upset by the way the Tigers treated him. Give the guy a place to stand against them, he might move the Earth…
The Twins FO correctly sacrificed defense to improve the offense.
They gave up Santana, Garza, Silva, Castillo, Bartlett, Tyner and Hunter.
As a result they went from 17 games out of first place to 1 1/2 games out of first.
Sometimes defense wins championships.
Sometimes defense leaves you 17 games out of first place.
Living in the Rochester, NY area, I remember noticing Slowey last year just before the Twins brought him up. I kept asking myself, “What are the Twinkies waiting for? This guy can flat out pitch!”. Then he went up and seemed to struggle, and I hoped he’d be given the time to even out. He was given it. He appears to be doing it.
