Tigers are still the team Twins should fear most
Posted on July 18th, 2008 – 11:46 AMBy Joe Christensen
It was only one stinkin’ game, and I’m probably obsessed with it this morning because nobody else in the AL Central played last night, but the Tigers’ 6-5 win at Baltimore seemed telling.
Magglio Ordonez returned from the DL. Brandon Inge hit his first home run on the road in more than a year. Joel Zumaya needed 14 pitches in a 1-2-3 eighth, lowering his ERA to 1.46. And Gary Sheffield looked … like Gary Sheffield.
John Lowe’s game story in the Detroit Free Press has terrific detail about Jim Leyland getting a tip for Sheffield from a Hall of Famer at a clothing store in New York, and Leyland passing it to hitting coach Lloyd McClendon, who passed it to Sheffield, who then hit his first home run in 14 games. Sheff would have had another homer if Jay Payton hadn’t reached over the wall to rob him. As Lowe writes:
It must be kept in mind that the Tigers have been a consistent offensive machine in the last two seasons only in that 2 1/2 -month span last season when Sheffield was healthy and productive.
One of the wisest old scouts in the business passed through the Metrodome shortly before the All-Star break and predicted the Tigers would win the division. He called them a second-half team, he noted that Justin Verlander was rolling and said Miguel Cabrera is getting more comfortable and will soon become the same force he was in the National League.
Here in the blogosphere, this would be a far more effective post if I rattled off 150 different statistical reasons to back up the old scout’s wisdom. I won’t. I’m just telling you it was in his gut, and he’s been right a lot over the years.
The biggest reason I doubted his theory was Sheffield, who entered the break batting .217/.323/.338. All I’m sayin’ is this: It’s a three-team race, and the Twins’ current 5-game lead over Detroit is every bit as important as their 1 1/2-game deficit to Chicago.
Note: Best thing I read off the Home Run Derby came here, of course. A Max Mercy byline, ghostwritten by some other Joe:
“I thought ze Derby was never to end,” Lajong said. “I mean, what was zat, eh, six hours? I fell asleep two times. Roy kept hitting zem out. I guess he, how you say, tuckered out.”
Hobbs knocked the cover off of 12 balls, smashed two light towers, knocked out three sportswriters (but continuously missed your humble correspondent — work on that aim, Roy!) and cracked 19 car windshields. He did unwittingly admit afterward that he was not entirely in command of the Home Run Derby rules.
148 Responses to "Tigers are still the team Twins should fear most"
I fear Tampa and Chicago the most due to their position in front of the Twins. Then Detroit.
The team that the Twins should fear most is the team in their front office.
Simply put, the brain wizards need to decide if this team is a contender or still in an “amass assets for the future” mode.
One of the things in sports is that there is one goal for all participants. When that goal is in reach then the leadership has to decide to go for it…or not.
I don’t know what the Twins FO thinks. As a fan I hope that they think they have a chance at the goal and make moves that can satisfy both situations of grabbing for the ring AND building for tomorrow.
I think that, in the near term, what the guys at Kirby Puckett Place decide is more likely to cause the team and its fans fear than what the Tigers or any other Central team does. They can’t control one thing that those teams do. They can control their own situation.
I’ll be interested in seeing what they think by what they do, or don’t do, in the next few weeks.
If you watched the game last night you would have also saw that if they were playing anyone that had talent they would have lost. Todd Jones came in and gave up the lead off hit again. At 1 out they had bases loaded and we down by 2. They ending up winning by one but the winning run was on 3. Millar can’t hit worth crap. I will put my money on the Twins anyday!
Vegas still likes Detroit to win the central, so its not a stretch to pick them. Not exactly breaking news for anyone who bets.
I say with Liriano either bring him up or trade him. For him to still be down there is getting toatally out of hand. It is way to controlling of the Twins and yes I do believe it is a money issue on both sides of the coin
Detroit is still old, slow, and clumsy.
yeah, jimmy bee, they’re going to trade Liriano. That’s pretty laughable, man.
Despite how you may believe it’s a “bring him up or trade him situation”, it’s far from that. Liriano needed to get his act together down in AAA. If he’s done that (which it’s appearing he has), he deserves another chance, but not to knock someone else out of the rotation who has been effective. A spot will have to open up for him to rejoin the team. He’s a part of the team’s future, and there’s no way in hell they’re trading him now.
Detroit stinks!!!
Anyone who says trade Lariano doesn’t have a clue.
If you are saying trade Lariano…do everyone a favor and keep your uneducated comments to yourself.
Have a great weekend everyone
Here’s a prediction - Liriano will be on another team within 1 year. The twins don’t put up with mouthy whiners or distractions to the team. They have a fundemental philosophy to the team chemistry that they won’t let a single player disrupt - and it seems to work. Look at how the twins handled AJ, Lohse and Garza, to name a few. All whiners - ALL GONE. I would bet a million dollars that all of this propaganda has been brought up by his money hungry, blood sucking agent.
“but not to knock someone else out of the rotation who has been effective.”
Hernandez has not been effective as of late.
It is not time for Liriano to come up. The Twins know what they are doing. 7-0 with a 2.70 ERA over 7 starts is good news, but there is soooo much more to it than that. Twins evaluate their pitchers by examining their games pitch by pitch and applying their wisdom. Armchair analysts look at a couple of basic stats and that’s it.
There is a reason that not just anyone can be a scout or manager. There is more to evaluating talent than looking at a stat sheet. The Twins are excellent at managing pitching talent, one of the reasons they can still compete and at times dominate teams with much more resources.
“Detroit stinks!!!”
“do everyone a favor and keep your uneducated comments to yourself.”
Right back at ya, slick.
Good post, Joe. I think the Tigers will be in the race the whole time but their bullpen (Zumaya being the exception) will keep them from actually winning it. It’s too patchwork and inconsistent. Not to mention they’re too old and one injury could seriously hurt any chance they have. I do believe they’ll be a threat though.
“Twins evaluate their pitchers by examining their games pitch by pitch and applying their wisdom.”
They must have forgot to do all that in April than when he started the year in the rotation. I don’t think it’s a money issue, I feel that they honestly believe there’s no room for him (which is ridiculous), but they should still bring him up.
Patrick you are cofusing me.
First you say Detroit is going to be in the race….Then you get into reasons why they won’t be in the race.
And “right back at ya, slick” Is that the best you can do?
What time does your shift at McDonald’s start chief? Have they promoted you to flipping burgers yet or are you still cleaning the toilets? I’ll be sure to leave a floater for ya, slick.
very lame Gman - no need to get personal just have an opinion and back it up - Patrick was saying your opinion that Tiggers stink was “uneducated” now do you get it?
I kind of like what Willie Norwood (aka Dr.StrangeGlove)had to say above.The Twins are in a different situation this year,with budgetary money available,some young assets,and a GM who hopefully is a little more proactive than the last one.
Smith went on record this March, telling the Fans that this wasn’t a rebuilding year.Few believed him.This is his chance to prove it.
What will put counter fear into the Tigers,WhiteSox,and everyone else is if Smith fires a shot across the bow and gets a power hitting RH bat to protect Morneau,and shores up the over used Bullpen.And while I’m asking Bill,bring up the Franchise as well!
The Twins should fear themselves more than anyone else.
If they win 50 more games, the Sox and Tigers will both disappear.
Well put Joe, Your pragmatic approach to baseball and willingness to go with your gut will never vault you in to politics. It serves us well here in the baseball nerd world though. Any word on possibly gambling internally for the 8th inning guy? Maybe a jump from double A K-Rod style?
Gman says:
July 18th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Detroit stinks!!!
Anyone who says trade Lariano doesn’t have a clue.
If you are saying trade Lariano…do everyone a favor and keep your uneducated comments to yourself.
OK Gman we can keep Lariano. But can we trade Liriano?
If the Twins really want to compete they have no-choice but to trade Liriano hopefully they can get Walt “No-Neck” Williams in return…If not the possibilty of trading Joe Mauer for Dick Grout remains a possibility
Dang guys, don’t delve into the personal attacks, it is totally unnecessary.
In my VERY, VERY valuable opinion, Detroit is going to stick around for a long time. Nothing wrong with have a good team push you. Gets the players to play the game during the dog-days of August. Very easy for young players to get lackadaisical come late summer, heck I do, and I am far from being young 
As I see it, Detroit has a good chance at pulling out the division if they stay healthy from here on out, however, since they have little quality depth in important areas such as pitching, they could suffer a complete meltdown if one of their cogs get injured. Thing is, that is true with most teams, including the Twins, with maybe the exception of starting pitching.
Talking about starting pitching, I feel that Genske is toeing a VERY, VERY fine line here. He represents two pitchers, both wanting to be starting pitchers for the Twins. Hernandez would probably be poorly served by Genske posturing to get Liriano promoted to the bigs, because a very likely scenario would be for Bass to be DFA’ed and Livan getting moved into long relief. The free agent market isn’t good for long relievers with inflated era’s, definitely not as good as the market for starting pitchers with inflated era’s (Silva can be used as a benchmark for reference)
If Hernandez gets demoted to the long reliever position as a possible outcome, it would expose Genske to possible damages from Hernandez. We are talking about millions here, and that is not something that a player would be willing to overlook if it indeed happened this way, at least I wouldn’t think Livan would be amenable to losing that kind of coin.
If Carl were not such a cheap skate we could have the players we need so as to not fear the Tiger
Does anyone remember Philip Seymour Hoffman in “Almost Famous” with his “Detroit Sucks” t-shirt??
Maybe Sheffield swings well again, but with infielders and dh’s playing out of position, fundamental mistakes, and a weak bullpen, it is still hard for me to take the Tigers seriously. Plus, the Twins did win three of four there before the break, and even sans Ordoñez, those are some good wins.
Ha Kevin, I was waiting for someone to pull that line out again.
As is, the Twins are doing better than the MUCH, MUCH higher paid Tigers, and are a 1 1/2 behind the MUCH higher paid Sox.
Nothing to complain about here, other than now that the allstar break has come to a close for the Twins, we now have to see if Punto will be starting tonight.
How many people would be bitching about the cheap owner Carl in one breath, and then minutes later be complaining about the idiot front office signing Punto to a two year extension (don’t doubt it would happen, Punto is having a good year again). Dang, I think I just screwed up, now people are gonna think that I am a Punto lover, and not just a defender
Anyway, I hope that Liriano gets called up very soon. I hope that Bass gets fried, and I also hope that the Twins make a move on Beltre. Bonser is a trading chip here, we need to use it/him to the benefit of the team.
Sorry guys, Lamb, Monroe, Everett and Hernandez all will get a stay of execution, at least for awhile longer.
Me Too I am a Punto defender also don’t worry. He is playing good
The sheer nerve of that agent, eh? Trying to look after his client’s financial interests like he did. What was he thinking?
/sarcasm
The last two years, the Tigers have faded in the dog days. In both cases, they had a sizeable cushion to work with. This year, they’re behind. The expected fade will put them even more behind. Why is the fade expected? As one person here said, “they are old, slow and clumsy”. Without greenies, these guys will fade even faster than in previous years.
With how notoriously cheap our owner is I can’t blame the agent for getting mad at the organazation . I think it is extorting money from Liriano
The agent is looking after his own financial interests… I second Willie Norwood’s thoughts, don’t get too excited about Beltre
Hey jimmy did you know that Liriano and Livan have the same agent.
As much as Detroit continues to be the popular “sleeper” right now, I still look at how the Twins and Tigers have matched up and think the Twins can manage the Tigers on their own.
My concern is still Chicago, who the Twins haven’t seemed to play as well (that four game pounding a month back or so still is nagging at me)
jimmybee and Patrick …. I apologize to you . Someone is using my name and is not the same Gman that conversed with Patrick yesterday on this same post. This the Gman that converses with sane and very few others once and awhile. Again I apologize.
BC maybe a package deal for someone. Nah I would love to keep Liriano. As they say on “Scooby Doo” we should get on it in a jiffy, Thelma.
No Prob Gman it happened to T and I the other day. It stinks man
the remaining games are mostly on the road where we don’t play as well, we no longer have the nl pasties to pad our win total so thinking we can repeat the first 1/2 without some help, rh 3b to it behind jason another good relief option and liriano in place of livan is wishful thinking imo.
“Patrick you are cofusing me.
First you say Detroit is going to be in the race….Then you get into reasons why they won’t be in the race.”
I said they’ll be in the race. Then I explained why I didn’t think they’d win the race. A team can compete without actually winning. I’ll dumb it down for you next time.
“Scooby Doo can doo doo, but Jimmy Carter is smarter”
-Homer Simpson
I was just thinking of asking the agent if they could trade locations.
Disregard my post than Gman.
No worries.
“Smith went on record this March, telling the Fans that this wasn’t a rebuilding year.Few believed him.This is his chance to prove it.”
This is an excellent point. In fact, I agree with Pro from Dover’s whole post. Well said.
Good by my beloved Eephus pitch. Hello Slider and 97 mph FB
So, what does he have to do to prove t isn’t a rebuilding year?
Go out and make a huge trade for a slugging third baseman? Make a trade for a top-shelf reliver?
Or just plain end up with a good record, maybe just shy of making it to the postseason?
In my mind, you don’t need to pull of a huge tradeto be a contender, all you need to be a contender is to, well, be a contender.
If they continue to play well, it would seem that the Twins made the right choices when it mattered the most.
BC I just got a pic of Kevin Love as my new desktop pattern and it had to be stretched and now KLove looks 2 x fatter then real life. Everyone is walking by and laughing. Great conversation piece. “Who’s that big fat white guy on your screen”? LOL
“Who’s that big fat white guy on your screen”?
thats my reflection
Me three.
It was only seven stinkin’ games, and I’m probably obsessed with it but Detriot has lost five of them to the Twins.
Shawn in Binghamton No worries I gain 10-15 #’s in the winter. Oh wait is it summer already.
I think I will Photoshop Gomez next to Sam Cassell for my next Desktop pattern
You didn’t have to stretch that one Kevin Love loves his food.
The tigers will catch and pass the twins when they have to play all those road games because of the RNC in St. Paul
The only way you can compete is to trade Liriano for someone like Wright
You dont need Liriano and you cant trust that rebuilt arm
I think if the Twins are able to swing a trade for someone like Beltre, it will benefit the team in a couple of ways. One, obviously, it would add to the offense and defense, but aside from that, it would give the team a shot in the arm to know the front office thinks they can contend. It would be opposite of what happened to the team last year, after they dealt Castillo to the Mets.
this team is one trip to the dl by the big canuck-jason to be out of the race this yr or any yr. the team is healthy (enough) right now and that could change anytime, so as i’ve said before go for it, make hay while the sun shines it may be raining like hell tomorrow.
just think what would happen if livan lost his fastball and they had to bring up the franchise. wonder why they call him that it must be the red wing aaa franchise.
I really should watch him in AAA while i can, since Rochester and some of the teams they play is close. I’d rather not get that chance though.
gobble,
“just think what would happen if livan lost his fastball”
He lost it in Canada in 2004.
Without a trace.
do you think the 71 yr old guy that pitched to hamilton throws harder than livan?
Fire Gardy and bring Dick “Bump” Howser back from the dead
“do you think the 71 yr old guy that pitched to hamilton throws harder than livan?”
Yes. Without a doubt
“do you think the 71 yr old guy that pitched to hamilton throws harder than livan?”
Livan also pitches at 71.
maybe they should do a “cold case” on what happened to Livan’s fastball
If Livan had pitched to Justin he would have hit 50 homeruns but then he would have lost in the finals so he was better off with Vavra i guess.
Did anyone see that gem of an outing last night for Johan
The Twins are up 7 games from the same period last year, when they finished 4 under. They have just 31 home games left, 36 on the road.
I wouldn’t be mailing away for those playoff tickets just yet.
Hey tigerfan unless you can lure Jack Morris out of retirement you shouldn’t either.
it’s not a cold case but “mission impossible”
tigerfan how do you like your team being handed the World Series during Spring Training and are now looking up the tailpipe of the “little engine that could”??
And how many of those road games are against the Tigers or WhiteSox? None? Works for me.
Hey tigerfan! How’s Sheffield doing this year for you.
LOL
Denial ain’t just a river in Africa, guys.
My team went to the Series in ‘06. And finished above .500 last year!
I’m guessing a lot of you are still wearing your old faded, worn, tattered Twins ‘91 sweatshirts on casual Fridays.
How’s that workin’ for you?
Didn’t we just take 3/4 on the road from the motor city kitties? That had to sting a lot.
how did the tigers do in the series? when did they win it last?
tigerfan your team CHOKED against the worst NL representive since the Cleveland SPiders
Just wait as soon as Liriano isnt eligible for arbitration, the twins will bring him up and cut Livan so they dont have to pay him his bonus. But according to Gardy neither will be for that reason. Ya sure ya betcha Gardy, we believe ya!
I’m guessing a lot of you are still wearing your old faded, worn, tattered Twins ‘91 sweatshirts on casual Fridays.
How’s that workin’ for you?
Nah, just a new Dodger hat and hopefully soon a Kershaw or Russell Martin Jersey
So what are the odds on “tigerfan” also being that supposed “Beacon Hill” fellow from a few weeks back?
the twins are 53-42
home 32-18 .640
away 21-24 .467
31 home left @ .640 = 20-11
36 away @ .467 = 17-19
same pace we’d finish at 90-72 is that good enough? don’t forget we don’t play the nl anymore.
“T says:
July 18th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
So what are the odds on “tigerfan” also being that supposed “Beacon Hill” fellow from a few weeks back?”
Good call T
ggg if Twins finish 90 wins or better my moniker will be changed to “GARDY & BILLY MIRACLE WORKERS!”
someone save this transcript so I remember the exact name in case it happens!!
how about vavra leaving him out fire?
FIRE VAVRA & GARDY!!!!
You could change your moniker to
TRADE BOOF, LAMB & EVERETT!!!!
ggg- you mean changing the moniker to “FIRE GARDY!!!”???
I think he should change it to GIVE VAVRA & GARDY LIFETIME CONTRACTS!
best we could get for Boof, Lamb, and Everett is Me, Fire, and jimmy bee
ackkk late in the day/week brain cramp I get your point now ggg!! hmm.. I have limited character space to use maybe something like “HAIL B & G & V !!”
jimmy I would hope that Lamb & Everett would be already gone from the team by the end of this year.. how else would the team reach 90 wins??
I want to change my handle to “Shawn in St. Paul”
HERE is my moniker change if Twins win 90 or more games this year
anybody hear how the skippers little buddies finger is?
“yeah I think so!!!”
little nicky’s agent is filing a grievance against the Twin’s for letting him slide into 1st base
Once again the White Sox are getting no love in this thing….they are, unquestionably, the most underrated team in baseball.
Oh well, Joe C. has been pretty much wrong about everything else this season (Go-go to minors, Twins playing “very well” in midst of huge May slump, etc.) If memory serves me, this is the second time he’s predicted the Tigers were about to go on a tear…
Stick to reporting the facts, Joe C.
I like this name better. More suitable for the attitude around here.
Stick to reporting the facts, Joe C.
Maybe JoeC’s working that mojo were we giving him crap for in reverse. 
or
“Fire Whatever Player Didn’t Do Well Today!!!!!”
hehe
Sheffield has nothing left, from what I’ve seen. He seems to be doing the same thing Rondell White was doing with his shoulder injury. He’s guessing fastball and trying to get the bathead out quickly to make up for his lack of quickness.
Good teams FEAR NO ONE! Not the so called most - least - or in between! Period! Fear is for weenies! If you do - you are whipped before you even start!
BillyHeywood, what are you talking about? Didn’t you read Joe C.’s entry? Obviously, Shef is going to be the second-half MVP now that Jim Leyland cracked the code while walking the streets of Manhattan.
It would be nice if the Twins had an INSIDER, who would throw the Twins Fans a bone once a day being so close to the trading deadline and have the Twins in contention, that would be sweet! Any trade news, call ups, releases, rumors???? Throw us a bone!!
And good to see Aaron Gleeman do some personal shoulder-separating with this gem:
“While the “Free Jason Kubel” campaign has been mostly a success, his struggles against lefties have kept Kubel from playing every day. Because of that he ranks just sixth on the team in plate appearances, is on pace to bat 150 fewer times than Gomez despite a 150-point edge in OPS, and has hit one fewer homer than Morneau in 107 fewer trips to the plate.”
A success, eh? By my calculation (as reported on the 220 blog), Kubel has only improved from 2007 in one statistical category: HRs. He has the exact same RBI per AB as last year, he’s batting 11 points lower than last year, and he inexplicably only has 9 doubles this year (in 271 ABs; he had 31 doubles in 418 ABs a year ago).
I thought the whole idea behind the “Free Jason Kubel” campaign was if you played him a lot more he would bust out and become a much better hitter. I guess I’m not seeing that happening.
I know, I know…I forget the life-long Kubel mantra: Give it time. Time’s ticking, folks. We need a five hitter to protect Jason Morneau.
Jim Leyland needs to go back to the Marlins. The tigers are just a bunch of losers. Always were losers, always will be losers.
Fire how bout FIRE ANYONE WEARING A PINK SHIRT!!!! FIRE ANYONE WHO SAYS HOTDISH!!!!
FIRE ANYONE WHO SAYS WARSH!!!!
Is it just me or does jason seem to have a lot of animosity towards writers in general.
just keeping them honest, ala Bill O’Reilly, BC….
nah, no animosity, but look…if you’re going to put yourself out there and congratulate yourself on how right you are or how impressively insightful you’re take is…there has to be someone to point out it doesn’t always work that way, right?
Everyone ready for Jason Morneau vs Justin Hamilton show tonight.
Ba Ba O’Reily last night rocked
plus, BC, I think we’re entitled to have a counterpoint…and my counterpoint is simple:
A. The Chicago White Sox have quietly dominated this division (despite two big pushes by the Twins, they still held onto first) and are playing much better baseball than the Tigers, yet no one seems to talk them up.
AND
B. Joe C. has lost a little credibility in his predicting baseball trends based on some whiffs earlier this year.
I agree and there’s plenty of people who do that on this blog trust me. I’m not a big fan of guys like Gleeman who have there heads burried too far into statistics either. It just seems like you single out all the writers thats all.
Jason in defense of Joe he did say that he had not stats to use to back up his prediction it’s just a feeling he gets. I’m the same way and i don’t need any stats to tell you i think Tampa fades and the Sox/Yanks will rise again.
Nah, I think the writers do good work, generally. I really like Reusse…I think that guy gets it and you don’t get the idea the stuff he puts out there is being fed to him from Twins PR…
But challenging the views of others (including the writers) is precisely what this forum is all about IMO.
“just keeping them honest, ala Bill O’Reilly”
I think I just threw up in my mouth.
P.S. Anyone think Slowey/Buscher would get Beltre (without some of his bloated contract?)
I’m with you on Tampa Bay…I’ve been saying for a while I think the hype is way too premature….I see them fading as well.
On that note, as a fan of a team that literally came up from the ashes twice (1991 and 2001-2002), I can tell you that it takes a lot more than a couple hot months to complete the story.
Just ask the 2003 Kansas City Royals.
Ryan,
that might, especially since Slowey’s HR issue would be diminished there.
Do you think the Twins would give him up?
I think I just threw up in my mouth.
Now, just gargle the vomit a little bit
T says: “So what are the odds on ‘tigerfan’ also being that supposed “Beacon Hill” fellow from a few weeks back?”
Zero.
I suppose it’s hard to accept that more than one poster could possibly NOT agree with your well-informed insights, but it’s a big world.
And I have better things to do than get into a flaming contest.
Carry on and good luck with the division thingy!
Just don’t be too surprised when you’re still wearing your Twins ‘91 sweatshirt next year, too…
tigerfan,
if i could fit into my old ‘91 sweatshirt, i’d be very happy
doesn’t seem like the rays think bartlett is as good as souhan does!
“The Rays also have shown interest in shortstop Clint Barmes, according to a major-league source, and center fielder Willy Taveras, whom the Rockies are trying to trade.”
Patrick Saunders, The Denver Post
tigerfan,
At least it will be better than wearing your Tigers ‘84 sweatshirt.
Burn.
Shawn- I dont know… I am not even sure if I really like the deal, but I will explain.
To me, Slowey seems the least likely to be a constantly good ML pitcher out of the young bunch (Baker, Perkins, Blackburn, Lirano). We have quite a bit of pitching in the minors, and it appears we want to hang on to Livan (not sure if it is a good idea) with the hope that we make the playoffs this season. That said, Slowey has promise so he could be desirable for a team like Seattle. Buscher gives them a young 3b that is ML ready that could turn into an ok everyday player.
We would promote Lirano to take Slowey’s spot, use Lamb (since no one will take him anyway) as a LH backup 3b/PH and start Beltre at 3b. We upgrade (IMO) at 3b and SP. Long term we hope someone (Mulvey, Dunsing, Manship, etc) fills that 5th SP role next season.
Gardenhire will find a way for the team to lose the division championship no matter how good the team plays down the stretch. His best methods to mess up the W-L column in favor of the opposition is by platooning players frequently and without good reason. It prevents the team from being at its best when the team really needs to be.
I think if we traded a pitcher not named Livan or Boof…. maybe we trade Slow.
if we traded Slowey/Buscher for Beltre…. we would need a B pitching prospect back also i’d say, plus some salary paid.
How can Gardenhire say that Liriano should not be brought up to the majors when he has a guy like Bass losing games for the team in the late innings?
Liriano is valuable enough to pitch as either a starter or a reliver. Remember Santana? Hernandez cannot beat the good teams. They are on to him and bomb him when they need to. Hernadez is only a 50-50 pitcher. Liriano could help the team more. The Twins should trade Hernandez and add Liriano to the rotation.
But Henry
Livan is 9-6
hehe
Shawn: If I could find my ‘84 Tigers Tshirt, I’d be happy.
FTR: The Twins are a good team, and they do a very good job of finding talent and putting it out on the field.
They’re just not my team.
I can’t wait until ‘10 when I can take my daughter to an outdoor game (against the Tigers, of course) instead of sitting in the Humpdome.
Oh, and I don’t expect the Tigers to win it all this year, either.
Sheffield sucks, Cabrera needs to be DHed, Inge should be playing 3rd every day and Leyland has no clue 90% of the time.
The other 10%, he guesses wrong anyway…
Merlin, the guy has won 4 divisions out of the past 6 years. I think you can cut him a little slack.
ESPN continuing to prove they’re good at being loud…but not right.
They take Liriano’s side, going to the “Twins are cheap” argument and the “Livan sucks” argument.
They of course make it sound like the Twins can just magically call up Liriano and make everything work.
Why is it nobody seems to remember that the Twins don’t have an open roster spot? You think that’d be the most important fact in all this.
I suppose it’s hard to accept that more than one poster could possibly NOT agree with your well-informed insights, but it’s a big world.
No. It’s just funny that we have all of these opposing fans popping in and out…but never at the same time.
from si this afternoon:
If you look at Beltre’s career without the 2004 season, he appears to be one of the most consistent players in the game. That year, in which he hit 47 homers for the Dodgers before signing a $65 million contract, skews the perception of him. Add in that he has played his entire career in two great pitchers’ parks and that his defense is legitimately great, and you have a player who has become a bit undervalued. Given where the market has gone, the $19 million or so left on his deal through 2009 isn’t a daunting commitment.
The leaguewide depth at third base is impressive, but one contender has spent the year trying to patch a gaping hole there. The Twins have used seven players at the hot corner, and only the empty .300 average of Brian Buscher has been of much use. Their third-base defense has been terrible as well.
Beltre would add value on both sides of the ball, one of the few trade-deadline targets who can make that claim. His .272 EqA would make him one of the better hitters in the Twins lineup, at least a 15-run upgrade over Buscher for the rest of the season. His glove would save at least five runs over the last 70 games. That’s a 20-25 run gain by trading for Beltre.
For the Twins, the best part is that they might be able to get him for just a willingness to assume the contract obligation. The Twins have a raft of pitching prospects in the minors to go with their homegrown major-league rotation. Two second-tier ones and, effectively, $19 million would probably be enough to get Beltre. It is unlike the Twins to make that kind of trade, but they can certainly afford it — every team can afford that kind of investment — and it’s a move that would go right to their win column. That Beltre is such a good defensive player, the kind of player the Twins have always wanted around, could be the deciding factor.
The Twins can’t count on an anomalous performance with runners in scoring position to continue. To win the AL Central, they have to improve the roster.
Trading for Beltre and swapping out Livan Hernandez for Francisco Liriano would change the story in the AL Central immediately.
T says: “No. It’s just funny that we have all of these opposing fans popping in and out…but never at the same time.”
Fair enough. But how hard would it be for someone to create multiple sock puppets in order to toady himself and pile it on?
Me? I’ve got better things to do.
Just sayin’…
at least we all love Jack Morris
But how hard would it be for someone to create multiple sock puppets
Not hard at all. Look, I just changed my name from T to “Not T”
And now I’m back again.
Gobs- I agree with that SI article. I would like to have Beltre just for his D…
FTR: Whoever posted as “tigerfan” @ 2:13 isn’t/wasn’t me.
I wish I had seen it earlier.
I honestly think that the Twins should only fear themselves. They are young, and they are inexperienced in a lot of positions… As long as they focus on themselves, and not on what we think they will be fine.
Span is playing lights out, way over his head this year… Gomez has shown signs that he could be very special, Casilla is the MVP of the team right now. Mauer is at least hitting doubles instead of 6-4-3 DPs, and Morneau is having an off year power wise, but is second in the league in RBIs…
This without getting much from leadoff, or 3rd base, not getting crap out of our corner outfielders, and having a pitching staff that is just past puberty.
Even with Punterrible, Gardy, and Vavra this team is winning…
Franchise may be up here eventually… this team just needs it’s bats to get healthy, and have Young, and Cuddyer start hitting.
T -
I have spoken to Howard, and to Jerry Z from the Wolves blog. The Identity Theft on here or sock-puppets as you so called it… is pretty wrong, and can be very damaging. It also could leave the Strib liable for damages…
I am in favor of how the strib has had to corral all the drunken NFL fans (talk about a mob) read the Vikings chat once… However, they have also protected KKKersten from the savagery that her incompetant writing deserves by having people have to register before being able to participate.
We need to do that here I think too. When some jerk did that to me on here I went straight to Strib Managment and had those people taken care of.
An over reaction? maybe, but it’s annoying when some yahoo decides to get cute and badmouth a bunch of people.
The guy that took mine created an email account with my name on it and everything just to try and discredit me. When I found that out I felt just sick inside. How could someone be that vendictive and cruel towards fellow sports fans just for disagreeing with them?
What about using Liriano as a reliever?
I think I’ll go have a Starbucks before my store closes!
T,
“Why is it nobody seems to remember that the Twins don’t have an open roster spot?”
Creating an open roster spot is very simple.
1) Waive Brian Bass and possibly lose him on waivers; or
2) Outright Julio DePaula or Sergio Santos to Rochester.
Nice job of hitting last night by Buscher, taking that outside pitch to LF. He had another couple of hits. Beltre would be a downgrade.
The Twins need to dump off Cuddyer as soon as possible before the trade deadline. Players like Cuddyer, Bonser, Bass, and Punto are nothing more than slag players who occupy a position on the roster and prevent better players from helping the team win.
Joe,
I reread your post and it seems this scout hasn’t been paying attention the last two years. The Tigers are below .500 the last two years after the break.
July 20 to the end 2006: 32-36
July 20 to the end of 2007: 31-38
How can they be a second-half team?
For every one of his claims on players, there’s another player who counter balances: Verlander is coming on and Bonderman is out for the year. Cabrera is getting more comfortable and Sheffield is melting down. Zumaya is back but Jones is having his worst year in the last four.
The only thing that can help this team is depth. They have to cut bait on Sheff and put Cabrera in the DH spot. They have to make room for Matt Joyce, which might mean less time for Marcus Thames. They have to put Zumaya in the closer role and make Jones an extra set-up guy. But Leyland is a veteran’s manager. So I don’t like their chances overall.
The Tiger remind me of the Twins from the early 1960’s. Loaded with hitters and sluggers plus good pitching. Add to that, awful fielding and poor on fundamentals and situational hitting.
It’s hard to win that way.
One big difference - The early 1960’s Twins were a young club, whereas the 2008 Tigers are old and creaky.
Zumaya is probably their best pitcher, hands down on the team. I honestly wonder why he hasn’t been given the closer role, considering how poorly Jones has done this year. In the games when Jones is in there, I actually expected the Twins to put together a rally, he just seems hittable.
Zumaya, well, that guy just plain brings it. I am sure if it wasn’t for his injury, he would probably be closing now.
Heck, everyone seems to forget that the Tigers were streaking at the same time as the Twins, it is just that the Twins were maintaining their lead, that nobody seemed to notice, or even care, that the Tigers were on one heck of streak themselves. That team is dangerous, much more so, at least in my eyes, than the PaleHose. The Whities have some SUPERB pitching right now, but one thing we all know about pitching, it has a tendency to break down due to injuries, and so far, the Whities have been incredibly lucky in that regard. I doubt that will be maintained all season.
The Twins have been hit by injuries on the pitching staff and the middle infield and in right field. Not nearly to the degree as the Indians, or the Tigers, but the Twins have had alot of injury problems this year. The same can’t be said for the Whities, and I think that that will even out as the year progresses.
Well, Tigers lost yesterday. I am n ot that afraid of the Tigers. They are looking like the Yankees as in getting too old.
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