Friday lineups: Twins/Indians
Posted on July 25th, 2008 – 2:52 PMBy Joe Christensen
CLEVELAND — The Twins will try to snap their four-game losing streak tonight, facing Cleveland lefthander Cliff Lee.
Lee is 13-2, but one of those losses came against the Twins, on July 6.
The Twins will counter with Livan Hernandez, their last pitcher to win a game. That came last Saturday against Texas.
It won’t get easier for the Twins, as they’ll face righthander Fausto Carmona on Saturday. Lefty Jeremy Sowers throws for Cleveland on Sunday. Then, the Twins will head home for a four-game series with the first-place White Sox.
Chicago is scheduled to start Mark Buehrle in the first game of that set. So between Lee, Sowers and Buerhle, the Twins will face three lefthanders in their next four games.
They are 14-14 this season against lefthanded starters and 41-32 against righties.
Updates to come…
Update (4:50 p.m.): Nothing has changed with Francisco Liriano, and nothing new is planned. Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said Liriano will make his next start for Class AAA Rochester on Sunday.
“He’s not here,” Gardenhire said. “I don’t think he’s going to opt out of it. I think that’s his rotation spot, and that’s where he’ll be pitched. I can only control my guys here. I can’t control those things.”
There was no update on Michael Cuddyer’s hand injury either, though the word is that he’s feeling better.
Twins (55-46)
1. Denard Span, RF
2. Alexi Casilla, 2B
3. Joe Mauer, C
4. Justin Morneau, 1B
5. Delmon Young, LF
6. Craig Monroe, DH
7. Brendan Harris, 3B
8. Nick Punto, SS
9. Carlos Gomez, CF
Starting pitcher: RH Livan Hernandez
Indians (44-56)
1. Grady Sizemore, CF
2. Jamey Carroll, 2B
3. Ben Francisco, LF
4. Jhonny Peralta, SS
5. Shin-Soo Choo, DH
6. Casey Blake, 3B
7. Kelly Shoppach, C
8. Ryan Garko, 1B
9. Franklin Gutierrez, RF
Starting pitcher: LH Cliff Lee
Progressive Field. First pitch: 6:05 p.m.
245 Responses to "Friday lineups: Twins/Indians"
continuing to run Monroe out there i see, goodie.
Yes! The Mighty Righty’s versus a left-handed pitcher. I’m smelling a big night for Punto.
Obviously Monroe is in there, Left Handed pitcher. And Monroe just rakes against lefties. Um, wait…
Kubel .157 vs. LHP, did you have a better idea?
Red is .270 vs. LHP, but everyone would complain if we lost the DH for some reason….
wheres beltre …why is he not starting…
Beltre is not starting for us because Boof, Buscher, Duensing, Plouffe, Macri, Punto, Slowey, etc…haven’t made the flight to Safeco field yet.
Wouldn’t Kubel at .157 be a better idea than Monroe at .130? I’m pretty sure higher is better, like bowling, not golf.
maybe Blake will change dugouts this series
Yes, like Mink did a few years back when we sent him to the Red Sox for _____? Pitcher Justin Jones? WHO??
i guess bill smith doesnt care if the twins win..must be more fun for him to sit back and watch other clubs make moves and make winners out of themselves…maybe he has vacation plans for september/october……fire the dumb bastard and get a real baseball man in there, thats not afraid to make a move and spend a dollar here and there, or give up a prospect or two that may never, ever and more than likely never go anywhere anyway….i really hate stupidity that this f.o. puts out to its players and its fans…this team deserves the help to win. its that simple, and really, so do the fans damnit…..quit being a limp one bill smith
I’m just glad the games aren’t played on paper, because on paper…yeesh, I can’t even finish that one!
The Twins are a conservative organization. They’d rather have 7-10 number 2/3 starters than have a full compliment of hitters (you may recall the beginning of this decade, where they were 1 hitter short year after year). They only dealt Garza because he was not well liked. I don’t know why anyone expects this to change, or why they are surprised the Twins have not made a deal.
mj1,
Nice rant, next time add some intelligent content please 
Regards,
It actually surprised me that the Twins are .500 against lefties. The way everybody is all doom and gloom about our lack of right-handed hitters, I would have thought that the team was like 5-23 against lefties.
Actually, .500 against lefties is pretty dang good considering the team is so heavily left-handed. Since they face far fewer left-handed pitchers than right handed, it isn’t a bad problem (being heavily left-handed) to have if you ask me.
ya dragon, well i would love to hear your big, intelligent plan to help the twins win this thing, or are you just satisfied to watch this slip away and play this phoney, lets play for 2010….i gotta leave for a bit, but ill be back to see what your ideas are…but thx for the comment anyway
Amen, mj1.
Twins should really deal a few younger pitchers before it’s too late. Adam Johnson and The Real Deal still haunt me. Also, just to throw this in, Blackburn needs to throw his cutter a LOT more.
mj1,
I keep asking that you folks give me a GUARANTEE, and no one will.
If change for change’s sake is what you’re after…go for it. We’ll be reading in a few weeks how Bill Smith is/was an idiot for following your advice (although you won’t remember to add that part).
Regards,
Don’t laugh…but what about bringing Mink back to the Twins from the Pirates to play 3B? He’s batting .280 and is great defensively. Also, I bet he’s not too expensive.
Plunkton - I don’t really see him as an upgrade over the Buscher/Harris split that we are currently using. As a fan though, I would love to see him back.
Thanks, but no thanks, the pirates can keep Dougie Baseball.
mj1
Which AL team has made a bunch of moves to better themselves so far? He has made more deals in 6 months than TR made in 2 years. Patience is a virtue, you need some more virtue.
Plunkton,
Plus he is LH, we need a RH bat.
Though I would rather see Doug on the hill tonight than Livan. I’ll bet he throws harder.
Plunkton, we need a right handed bat, and last I checked Dougie baseball was a lefthanded stick.
mj1,
There are changes I might make were I in charge, yet I am not ARROGANT enough to believe that I have THE ANSWER or the ONLY ANSWER.
Regards,
Dragon, there are no guarantees in life. That is just a rhetorical device. Heck, there is no guarantee that keeping the current players will lead to anything other than just missing the playoffs.
The question is: can this team be made better to actually be serious contenders this year? If not, they should deal Livan and anyone else not in their plans next year. If so, they should at least consider dealing from the future to make the present better.
this team needs alot more then Beltre.. where did this delusional stream of thought come from that a team:
1)having traded it’s ACE, 2nd best hitter and CF, it’s future ACE(Garza)
2)then adding washed up vets(Lamb,Monroe,Livan,Everett) to bridge the gap while youngsters get older
3)clearly in rebuilding mode for 2010
is only an above average hitter away from WS contender??????
All good points you guys have. Sorry for bringing Doug “I am saving this baseball from the World Series to pay for my kids’ college education” MinKAYvich.
Livan will give up 6 runs before the 4th inning tonight.
As for the Beltre deal, if it is going to take one of our current young starters, I’m against it. It may help this year, since we can call Liriano up to replace whichever of Slowey/Blackburn/Perkins is dealt, but next year it leaves a hole in the rotation with Livan being gone.
And even if Mulvey shows he is ready(not saying he will), the twins won’t go into next season with him as a starter. They’ll sign another has been pitcher that will have a lot of veteran presence but very little baseball pitching ability. No thanks.
Punto found a way into the line-up once again.
Game over.
Why do people still debate who is a worse idea Kubel Vs. Monroe to DH against lefties. That’s like debating what’s worse getting kicked in the nuts or getting punched in the nuts. They both suck. Please stop this debate!
Tony, so you are willing to go with this same group of hitters/fielder next year? ‘Cause, they aren’t signing a legit hitting FA, and you don’t want them to trade any quality pithcing away…..how will they get better?
the Dragon says:
July 25th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
mj1,
There are changes I might make were I in charge, yet I am not ARROGANT enough to believe that I have THE ANSWER or the ONLY ANSWER.
I believe that this forum exists almost exclusively for fans to voice and trade their opinions, and that includes criticism of the front office, field staff, and players. Were everyone to kiss the Twins’ ass and sing their praises, while ignoring the many faults of this team, it would be a very boring space on this series of tubes.
Regards,
Beltre would be a good fit for the Twins on paper, but the game is played on the field. Who actually can say what his results would be playing for the Twins?
Getting in a point from the Livan discussion, past performance isn’t always a good indicator of future results, but in this case, it is even more true. His performance wasn’t even done with the Twins, much less in the Twins stadium, hitting with the Twins hitters. Who’s to say that he does squat?
I, personally want Beltre on this team, but, hey, at what cost?
Beltre is a good player on paper, and on paper, the Twins have the chips to trade to get him.
Who actually knows what Seattle wants for him? I know I don’t know, and I am pretty sure nobody commenting in this blog does either.
If it was Slowey (doubtful) with some minor talent, sure, I would do it.
If it was Liriano (very probable) or Baker (even more probable) no way in HELL would I do that trade.
If Beltre is so desirable for Twins fans, obviously, it is going to take alot to get him, and that “alot” means somebody(s) that anyone on here would hate to lose, that much I am sure of.
FIRE VAVRA & GARDY!!!! says:
July 25th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
this team needs alot more then Beltre.. where did this delusional stream of thought come from that a team:
1)having traded it’s ACE, 2nd best hitter and CF, it’s future ACE(Garza)
2)then adding washed up vets(Lamb,Monroe,Livan,Everett) to bridge the gap while youngsters get older
3)clearly in rebuilding mode for 2010
is only an above average hitter away from WS contender??????
Why can’t Beltre be on the team in 2010?
One move at a time.
Me Too:
Correction, Beltre is a good player on the field.
Dragon,
There aren’t any guarantees in baseball. Asking for one is ridiculous, which I’m sure is partially your point.
Here’s a few things that are as close to guarantees as you can get:
-Adrian Beltre would help this team tremendously. The Yankees didn’t even bother pitching to Morneau last series. He walked three times in game 2. Beltre behind him brings Morneau back into the equation somewhat, and adds a gold glove 3B who can hit for power, mashes lefties, and can swipe a base.
-This team, as is, isn’t good enough to win the division. It’s nice that we pounded on teams like the Padres, Nationals, etc. It was a lot of fun to watch. But when we hit the road and face a big team in their park, we look foolish (See: White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox) One bat may not be enough to change that, but at this point, I look at acquiring Beltre as putting TWO hitters back in the lineup, because teams can’t just pitch around Justin without much worry anymore. I think people sometimes don’t realize how much Buscher’s glove costs us as well. My roommate in college was the third baseman on a D-III team, and I’m pretty sure he’d be better.
That being said, we’ve gotta work with what we have for now, and we beat Clifford last time, so let’s go do it again Twins.
Mike,
I don’t disagree with you.
The question is “Is this team 1 or 2 players away from the World Series?”
I don’t have a clue. I doubt it, but that and $1.29 get’s me a cold cup of coffee at 7-11.
Will Mauer, Morneau, Casilla, Span, Buscher, Young ALL continue to hit? Who knows?
Will Baker, Blackburn & Slowey continue their current form? Who Knows?
The dilemma is that IF they continue on pace, and some of the other pieces improve, than maybe we’re 1 or 2 pieces away. If they regress to the mean, maybe 5 or 6 pieces are not enough.
The continued absurd postulation on this blog is that the Twins management DO NOT want to win.
Regards,
They do want to win, but in the future, always in the future.
The thing about Beltre, he wouldn’t be a rent-a-player like Sabitha is for the Brewcrew. Seems that the Brewers gave up alot for a player that is going to walk at the end of the season (maybe not, remains to be seen). If the Indians got that much for a rental, the Mariners are obviously shooting for the moon here, and they aren’t going to come down very far.
The thing is, again, Beltre isn’t a rental, he would be here thru the end of next year, has a limited no-trade clause, which includes the Dodgers(wonder why that is?)so he could be moved next year at the deadline if it makes sense for the Twins.
Speculation about him is that he would want to go back to the west-coast at the end of current deal, but if that is true, why would he list the Dodgers as one of the no-trade teams???? I think that if he plays well, the team tries to re-up him, and keep him. If that is indeed the case, I have no problem with them trading abit more to get him, as long as the intention is keeping him around for awhile, similar to Stewart and Reed from years ago.
All Teams want to win!
Only some try their damndest to win now. The Twins are not that team.
Small sample, but since Me Too was talking about how Beltre’s numbers weren’t put up at the Dome… here’s the numbers he HAS put up while playing in our lovely little stadium:
.340/.340/.604 through 53 ABs, with 3 HR and 5 2B.
The fact that his OBP and average are the same doesn’t bother me either, since Twins’ pitchers are usually pretty stingy with control.
You can say Beltre only had one great year, and that’s true, but people underestimate how much Safeco deflates his numbers. I’ve posted his road splits over the last 3 years numerous times, as well as his splits against LHP.
Beltre would be a tremendous fit, and Stark and Olney over at ESPN say the talks between the Twins and M’s are “far from dead,” despite what’s been reported. Music to my ears…
Of course, I didn’t really say much, so it is hard to disagree with me.
Personally, I’d be willing to deal one of the minor league pitchers, Boof, Buscher, and a 2nd tier hitting prospect for Beltre. I think Beltre has 4 good years left, and that they could re-sign him at a reasonable price. I don’t believe in Cuddy, and I don’t see anyone else in the system for this year or next year even (is Hughes legit? Valencia is still more than a year away? Plouffe - while some of us may like him, Gardy hates strikeouts and with Young and Gomez, I’m afraid Gardy would ahve a heart attack?). Now I’ve said stuff that is easy to disagree with….
Beltre makes over $13 million. Ain’t no way we trade for a guy with that salary.
Is anyone here convinced that Kubel is an everyday player? His defense is horrible and compared to Monroe..he strikes out about the same or even more.
Mike - This year our offense has been better than our pitching. I don’t think trading to hurt our weakness and benefit our strength makes that much sense.
Beltre is only signed for this year and 2009 at 13M a pop he will be 31 no way do I see him signing with the Twins for 2010 and beyond.. see starting after 2009 season the entire roster EXCEPT Morneau,Mauer,Cuddy,Nathan will be up for arbritration….. you thought the chaos involving Hunter and Johan was bad imagine trying to sign/trade/dump the starting staff,Casilla,Young,NOGO,Neshek,Guerrier….arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
Kubel is brutal in RF, decent in LF… observation only. As a primary DH though, his defense is not an issue.
I agree with adding one piece at a time and I would add Beltre although not at the expense of Baker/Liriano we have other players to move and as long as Seattle does not make someother moves the price should go down. Even by adding Beltre we would not have enough to make the world series, but it’s a start and we would have him for next season and if he does not like it in MN than he becomes a valuable trade chip next season. If we do not do anything than we can expect to stay close and finish 2nd or 3rd this year and next year as well.
Here’s hoping Monroe has a game tonight!
I am. Kubel is 7th or so in the AL in OPS for DH’s. That makes him about average, which I think by default makes him an everyday player. Kubel is their 3rd best hitter - I really don’t understand all the Kubel dislike.
Duane - Kubel strikes out in 16.8% of his plate appearances. Monroe = 26%.
Kubel wanted to have the Twins extend him. That would be a dumb move. He hasn’t proven anything.
Steve,
I ask for guarantees because I see many saying that Beltre means play-offs and/or Worls Series. Maybe yes, maybe no.
I don’t disagree with your reasoning, the question IMHO opinion is at what cost.
IF this team was more veteran with much more experience, I would more on board, YET we could pay a King’s ransom for Beltre, and if/when Casilla & Span and others hit the wall…I submit we don’t even know what we have now.
We will see in the fullness of time.
Regards,
Tony- Who has more ab’s…Monroe or Kubel?
Hey, Kidding, yes I do know that Beltre is a good player on the field. If he wasn’t, I wouldn’t even be pushing for the trade. I don’t want a slow, mediocre player out there, and that is exactly what he isn’t.
I want Beltre on the Twins, I want him badly. Just don’t know how badly. I don’t want him Baker or Liraino badly, that much I am sure of.
Slowey, Blakie or even Perkins badly, okay in my book (only one of the three obviously, with minorleague talent in the mix) but I just don’t think that is going to get the deal done, especially when I look at what trades have been done this season, and what the overall cost in talent has been.
Dragon,
I would never say the Twins’ management doesn’t WANT to win, but I would say that they’re too afraid to take a risk to get there.
There’s a reason we get bounced in the ALDS every year.
I think there have been several times (2006 most notably) where we may have been just one piece away, and we never make the big move. Phil Nevin? Bret Boone? Come on.
How many times are they gonna come up short? I’m not guaranteeing that Adrian Beltre, or Kevin Kouzmanoff/Heath Bell would bring this team to the World Series, but I’m guaranteeing that a lot of fans would be happy to see them just go for it for once.
I’ve sat and watched us make the Playoffs with what we’ve got, and I’m thankful for each one of those years. As painful as it was to watch the A’s (who in my opinion were a very inferior team) sweep us, all that anger and disappointment was worth the little bit of joy that came from watching Cuddy and Morneau go back-to-back off Loaiza in Game 2.
Still, at a certain point, looking back, I think Minnesota’s complacent to be just good, and not great. This isn’t a great team right now. It’s a good one. One big trade might not make it great, but we’ve seen the “sit tight” method fail four times this decade. I’d like to see us go the other way and at least aim for the skies.
I don’t understand why the Twins don’t go after Adam Dunn. Yes he strikes out alot but how many home runs would he hit?
Mike,
IF the cost for Beltre is as you state, I’m on board.
I have heard the cost is much more, but no one speaking is actually part of the conversation that matters.
Regards,
Duane - Kubel does, as he should. He’s better at hitting baseballs than Monroe.
where would Adam Dunn play? bad OF, 2 month rental…. Kubel is a similar albeit not as powerful cheaper player and under control alot longer
I don’t think Casilla’s going to hit much of a wall. His average doesn’t seem likely to dip below .300 to me.
Span, I fully expect to come back down to Earth, and that’s fine. It’s nice that Span’s putting up some solid numbers, but we’re not even winning when he does, and Cuddyer has to come back at some point.
Who knows if Span will even be around at that point (or at the very least, playing regularly)? Odds are he won’t be.
Like it or not (and I don’t like it), Gardenhire plays favorites, and he loves Gomez. Sucks to be Denard Span when Cuddyer’s hand heals up…
Here’s the skinny on Kubel:
We’ve been hearing forever how he’s going to be this amazing hitter if we just be patient.
The fact is, he hasn’t shown any improvement, sans a higher HR per AB total here in 2008.
The rest of his numbers are alarming for a guy who was expected to only get better…his .259 avg. in 2008 is lower than his career avg….plus, he only has 10 doubles this year, which is truly alarming.
He’s not, as someone suggested above, our third best hitter…not even close.
I would put Morneau, Mauer, Casilla, Young, and Span ahead of him at this point.
But he does offer a chance to hit the ball out of the park in a lineup with very few guys who offer that chance.
Now, on Monroe…he hasn’t been overly awesome for sure, but in just 150 ABs the dude does have 8 HR. He’s also had some pretty clutch hits, most recently last Saturday against Texas with a single off the wall that I still can’t figure out how he was thrown out at second on a 7-5-4 scoring play!
Yep, Beltre would most likely benefit greatly from being a Twin. He would play in a dome that is more fitting for his play, at least for the next season. If they can’t re-up him, well, he is gone. Not much you can do about that, but I would prefer a player that they at least have around for more than three months.
Tony- Since when has Kubel hit over 20 home runs? Monroe has proven that he can. Limited ab’s once or twice a week won’t get him there.
I agree FO needs to make some move, BUT this year is too early IMO next year when the youngsters have more exp then it makes sense.. trading away the future for 1 year+ of Beltre just to miss the playoffs and win a few more games doesn’t make sense.. next year if improvements keep happening then “GO ALL IN”
Steve,
One quick point, then I have to pick up “She who bosses us all” from work.
2006 is an interesting case, since when it was time to reload we were something like 10 games+ out of a play-off spot? Playing lights out, and gaining NO ground.
Regards,
Do we want to run Monroe out there everyday hitting as bad as he has in 07-08 just to get 20 HRs?
Duane - Last year Monroe hit .219 with 12 HRs in over 400 at bats. Was that regular enough playing time?
Shawn-
Hell we do that with a lot of players. All I am saying is let him play for a week and see what he does. IF he stinks that I will shut up. I don’t think he will.
Kubel’s last 126 MLB games:
.289/.366/.492
118-409
24 2B
4 3B
17 HR
69 RBI
50 BB
Granted he’s not facing much LHP in there, but if you don’t give him ABs in there, how is he going to adjust?
When Kubel was 23-24 years old, he was projected as the best hitter for average in the Twins minor league system.
In 2004, he hit .377 through 37 games at AA and .343 through 90 games at AAA. Granted, they’re Minor League numbers, but he had to be hitting lefties just fine there.
Are the lefties he’d face in the Majors better quality? Of course, but those numbers tell me that he should at least be given a shot to adjust to them at the Major League level, which Gardenhire doesn’t seem to want to do…
It looks like Monroe will be playing in 4 of the next 5 with 2 Lefties in Cleveland and the 1st 2 White Sox games as well.
He had an off year last year. Every once in a while, believe it or not… players have an off year. Remember Punto from last year???
I don’t quite understand why BS takes as much heat as he does in here. He is hamstrung by a ‘budget’ that he has to follow or he probably gets the ax. He made some of the same mistakes TR did in the past by signing washed up players, so he deserves that critisism, no doubt. I applauded the DY trade when it happened so I can’t get him there and I truly beleive that FL would be pitching in the rotation NOW if BS had his way. I can see why Ryan quit, a Twins GM has an almost impossible task.
I like Monroe as a bench bat cause he can hit a HR. Don’t want to see him play often due to he rarely gets on base if he doesn’t hit a HR.
Fire,
You’re saying making a move this year is too early and you think we should next year… but we’ll have Beltre around for next year as well. Making a trade for him essentially is making a move for 2008 AND 2009.
Dragon,
That’s a good point. I suppose 2006 is a bad example, when looked at in that light. Guess I didn’t really think that one through, sorry.
Punto plays too much too
Shawn-
That one I agree with you on 100%.
Historically Punto is not so good for average. Here are his numbers with the Twins through last year-
2004 - .253
2005 - .239
2006 - .290 (abberation)
2007 - .210
Duane,
I think the only “off-year” Punto had is when he hit .290. I know he’s hitting .300 this year, but I hardly expect that to continue. Punto’s a .240 hitter with a solid glove and good speed. He himself has admitted that it wouldn’t be fair to ever expect him to come close to .300 again.
As for Monroe, he had an off-year last year, yeah, and he’s continuing it this year.
Kubel’s got 13 HRs, and you’re questioning whether or not he can put 7 more out over the rest of the season? If your doubt is that strong, I’ll put some money on him hitting 20 and then some.
Shawn,
That is exactly the role Monroe should play.
Steve-
Naturally if Kubel gets about 60-70% of the ab’s he should hit 20 or more home runs. I am not that dumb. I am saying if they had the same # of ab’s..my money would be on Monroe to hit more.
Duane,
Monroe has his chance tonight, i think we all hope he hits at least a HR and goes at least 2 for 4.
Steve from Fridley…
please do us a favor and quit citing what a hot minor league prospect Kubel was…that argument is so 2005.
Look at the numbers…where’s the improvement? You want to go back to his last 126 MLB games? How about sticking with all of 2008? Or all of 2007 and 2008?
Or, how about his last 15 games (the month of July) where he’s hitting .231 with 1 HR and 6 RBI?
Point being, there’s no reason to bark about playing Monroe. Kubel hasn’t taken the bull by the horn and, frankly, has been given every opportunity (including a vast internet blog movement that was based more on fantasy than reality).
Monroe is an upgrade to the bench that’s all he is and I am happy that he is there instead of Jason Tyner or L-Rod let’s stop making Monroe who is 4 years older then Kubel the “DH savior”
Nice one Jason. But I’d still take Kubel over Redmond in the 40 yard dash.
One thing I think is fairly important: I would be very much in favor of picking up Beltre, but time is off the essense. His value to the Twins this year goes down a little bit with each passing day.
Waiting until July 31st means Beltre isn’t in the lineup against 3 LH starters just in the next four days–all against ALC teams.
That’s not the end of the world, I know, but the season isn’t that young anymore. These three road games in Cleveland and the series with the White Sox coming up are pretty huge.
Any deal should probably already have been done, and if I’m Bill Smith I let any team I’m talking to know “my offers are only going to go down from this point forward.”
If those teams say no, I move on and look elsewhere.
Kubel still has some chance to be better because of the lost 2+ years due to his injury, Monroe has no upside left only down.. maybe Kubel will never be a piece of the puzzle but atleast he has a chance, if he isn’t then that’s another hole to fill…and another reason to believe this team is no where close to true contender status yet..
OK, I’ve heard enough already. Here’s the “best” proposed deal from the M’s so far:
We get Beltre.
M’s get Perk and Duensing and Revere, plus a couple others TBN.
So you want to make that deal? I didn’t think so.
We are offering:
Livan, Boof, Bass, Lamb, Everett. 5 for 1. They aren’t buying.
We are still talking though. Between you and me, I think we end up with:
Beltre for Slowey, Duensing, Pridie, and Span.
Are you happy with that? I think that is what you want. Don’t run me out of town.
Billy swap Cuddy and Punto for Pridie and SPan and we got a deal!!!!!
Uh…I don’t think I like that deal, Mr. “GM”. Replace Span with Garret Jones and Darnell McDonald and you have a deal.
Duane, if Kubel had the same ab’s as Morneau this year he would be on pace to hit 35 homers. If you think that the reject Monroe is a better everyday player than Kubel, you’re out of your mind.
Jason - Six RBI and 1 HR in July in 10 games started isn’t really that bad. Batting average isn’t that good, but .348 OBP isn’t bad. Still better than the alternative.
Hi everyone:
The sense from the talk today is that the Twins are the perfect team for Lake Wobegone….above average in some respects, just average in others. What can they do to get way above average in most respects? Beats me. I’m not big on the one-guy fixes it thing, but, I sympathize in a big way with the desire to see the organization give its fans something to talk about by going “all in” one of these times. They are cautious to a fault. I’m not big on the DY trade this winter, but I give them kudos for seeing a guy with potential to help offensively and getting him. Lots of others would have liked to trade for DY too, so that part was OK. (Whether they gave up the wrong part, ie Garza, is for another discussion).
Here’s an interesting W-L stat: Twins record against teams with .500 records or better: 32-36 (below average)….record against teams less than .500: 24-9 (way above average, superb)24-9 includes 9-0 against the crud of the NL (thank God for interleague play…that’s what got em going in ‘06 as well).
Conclusion: This is Lake Wobegone in schizophrenia. We need some karma, some balance….therefore, trade for guys who do Zen and TM!…(that’s a joke folks).
Have a great weekend. Go Twins!
Dear Bill:
What’s the best offer from the M’s provided the Twins pick up all of Beltre’s salary this year and next?
I’ve only cited it a few times, and I think it speaks to the fact that he deserves a chance to improve against lefties.
It’s extremely hard to do well against them when you only face a LHP maybe once every 2-3 weeks. He’s shown that he can be a successful hitter for average at one point, I don’t see why to not do it again.
I think Kubel and Monroe both suffer from not being able to play every day (Monroe more-so, obviously), but I still stand by the fact that I firmly believe if Kubel was given the chance to play every day, he could improve against LHPs enough and improve against RHPs to be a very solid designated hitter.
Kubel doesn’t even have 2 seasons’ full of Major League ABs yet. Where was Justin Morneau at when he had 980 ABs in his career?
Here’s a comparison for you…
Justin Morneau had 876 ABs coming into 2006… so right around mid-May that year he was at the same spot in his career as Kubel is.
Man, do I wish we’d given up on THAT hack.
Fire and Plunk,
I hear ya, but let’s be realistic. How about if I get them to take Young instead of Span. We’ve talked about Cuddy, but they don’t like his contract.
So, are you good with Beltre for Perk, Duensing, Young, and Pridie? Seems like a lot to me, but I want to make the fans happy.
Who needs Kubel?
Doug Mientkiewicz is batting .280 with 12 doubles in 120 fewer ABs than Kubel…
“Here’s an interesting W-L stat: Twins record against teams with .500 records or better: 32-36 (below average)….record against teams less than .500: 24-9 ”
that just further proves this team is not a contender, not hard to understand
Jason…correct! I started the “Mink” talks about an hour or so ago. Scroll up! Plus he can play 3B.
“…if Kubel had the same ab’s as Morneau this year he would be on pace to hit 35 homers.”
Provided those extra ABs for Kubel all came against RH pitching, you might be right.
But that wouldn’t be the case. All those extra ABs for Kubel–coming against LH pitching–would even further illustrate the difference between Morneau and Kubel as hitters.
I don’t think anyone would be saying “Kubel’s the third best hitter on the Twins” if you added another 150 ABs against LH pitching to his totals.
Well, you’re late to the party on that one, Plunkton…I was talking him up all day on Wednesday, when he went 4-for-4.
Fire..yes ..how many times do you have to say that the Twins are “not a contender”. Of course no one was saying the Twins were ‘not contenders’ prior to the Red Sox sweep.
The Twins need to get their heads out of their butts. Too many mistakes…bad throws, bad baserunning decisions, bad at bats, bad pitches, etc… Clean it up, play smart and the game comes to you, and so do the wins.
I have been saying it all year.. this team has exceeded everyone’s expectations and is above .500 that’s great! no reason to downplay that..
Justin Morneau hit lefties at a .201 clip through 154 ABs in 2005 as our everyday first baseman. Kubel may be at .157 right now, but if you give him the ABs, he could hit better than .201 against them given some time to adjust.
You have to start somewhere. Obviously, I don’t think Kubel will be the hitter Morneau is, but he can certainly be a .290 hitter with 25+ HR as our DH, I’d say, if he gets a chance to play every day.
Honestly, how can the guy improve if he’s not given the chance? He doesn’t even have two full major league seasons and we’re supposed to give up on him?
If we used that mentality, we’d have Garrett Jones playing 1B for us right now, and we would’ve traded Morneau for someone like Dustin McGowan two years ago.
USAFChief - Perhaps if Kubel saw left handed pitching on a more frequent basis he would be less inept against it. You can’t say for certain with an extra 150 at bats against lefties, that his splits would be so bad. Of course, I can’t say that they wouldn’t be so bad. Only one way to find out though.
Beltre for Slowey, Duensing, Pridie, and Span.
Billy, NOT Span. But you are very close. Throw Cuddy in there and we can slap each other on the back.
Evets,
No team in MLB right now would want to take on Cuddyer’s bum hand, fat contract, and terrible numbers. He has zero trade value.
Tony,
I agree completely. See: My comparison to Morneau.
We need to give Kubel a real chance before we dump him off somewhere for nothing and watch him turn into a solid hitter.
yo dragon, im glad you responded, and my only point is that i know there are no gurarantees, but all i want the twins f.o. to do is try. as a fan, thats all i can expect. this is a wonderful season thus far, and very unexpectedly, although i was one thats not surprised by the twins success this year, so now during crunch time and with a chance to win this division, i expect bill s to go and get someone to fill some gaps this team has, namely in the bullpen we need help, and liriano should come up and offensively all we really need i believe is someone to protect morneau or he is worthless to us and thats rediculous, unless we want to watch him walk 3-4 times a game. i thought beltre is probably the best out there to do that, and yes seattle is not going to give him away, nobody would. so when i hear all the time its too expensive, or theyre asking to much — it gets old and this team with its low ball salary situation, i dont even want to hear that we cant afford it…fact is we cant afford not to make a play and take a chance on winning this thing…try and lose is ok….not trying and losing really sucks…its that simple
Too much for Beltre. If the team doesn’t win this year, so be it. I do agree that Cuddy, Boof, Punto, Bass, Livan, Everett, & Lamb need to be replaced or traded for something.
Livan’s ERA is terrible because, on the days he is getting the crap kicked out of him, Gardy leaves him in the game to “eat innings”.
When the young starters are getting the crap kicked out of THEM, Gardy replaces them to preserve their confidence.
As a result Livan ’s ERA is 5.29 and Slowey’s is 4.41.
And just curious here, because I took a break from these blogs for awhile…
After Gomez hit .300 over the month of May with 8 steals, were people hero-worshiping him as much as they are with Span right now?
I know Span’s numbers are better than that right now, but I’m just honestly wondering. It really seems like some people here think Span’s gonna hit .355 next year and win the batting title, and that it’s completely impossible for him to come back down to Earth in a big way.
Personally, I’m just enjoying his hot streak, but waiting for the inevitable drop-off.
Steve from Fridley. If you want Beltre that bad, have the Twins get him. But it will be at a price….No D III is better than Buscher.
Steve,
you are right, just wishful thinking.
Exchange Cuddy for DY and get that done. It’s a lot and I would hate giving up on Young so soon, but I would do this deal today.
Steve - I think the frustrating part about continually sitting Kubel against lefties is that Monroe, even though he is a right handed bat with a history of success against lefties, has hit even worse against them than Kubel has this year.
Rocky,
I was exaggerating with that comment. And I know it’ll be at a price, but we get him for the the next year and a half, and then we can also try to re-sign him. It may be a long shot, but if he likes the atmosphere, he may decide he wants to be a part of the new stadium in 2010. That’s gotta be alluring to a player we bring in for the remainder of 2008-2009, especially if the team keeps developing.
Everyone says this team is building towards 2010. Well, if we’re winning right now, and we can add a piece to help us continue with that over the next 15 months, and the future looks good… wouldn’t that new piece (Beltre) perhaps want to stick around?
Delmon and Slowey for Beltre?
Never in a million years. Delmon Young should be untouchable in this team’s eyes, and rightfully so.
I wouldn’t trade Young for almost anything right now, especially not 1.5 years of Beltre.
Don’t get me wrong, I want Beltre badly, but Delmon is going to be one of this franchise’s cornerstones. He can’t go anywhere.
update says Liriano is starting in Rochester Sunday…. wny not give the team the best possible chance to win?
No Liriano?
I hope Smith is fired and this team is contracted.
liriano will not be starting for rochester again this year. He is ’scheduled’ to start for rochester on sunday.
Sane,
“Livan’s ERA is terrible because, on the days he is getting the crap kicked out of him, Gardy leaves him in the game to “eat innings”.
When the young starters are getting the crap kicked out of THEM, Gardy replaces them to preserve their confidence.
As a result Livan ’s ERA is 5.29 and Slowey’s is 4.41.”
Never thought of that - that is a great point!!
Livan has some games he was pulled early though: 2.2, 5.1, 4.0, 3.0, and 4.1. (total 21 games started)
Slowey: 3.1, 5.0, 5.0,5.2, 3.0,3.2, and 5.1 (total 15 games started)
You can’t give away the future for today (Perkins, Duensing, Revere). Package Harris in a Beltre deal, evidently Gardy would rather play Punto at SS. Cuddy is on the DL, so he can’t be traded right now w/o commish approval. Pridie could go, maybe Macri also.
anyone know how danny graves is doing in rochester? i’m to lazy to look it up.
Slowey to BP then
I expect a drop off with Span. But I also expect Span to be a Tier 2 star in this league for many years. Consistent .300 BA and great in the field. This is based soley on my observation of his command in the batters box, his ability to hit off speed pitches, his speed and his new found patience at the plate. I hope I’m right.
eh, i don’t much care for the thought of slowey to the pen. Idealy, slowey is traded for a bat or a setup man, but that’s unlikely. that’s why i ask about graves. i’d be more comfortable with him or korecky in the pen, rather than slowey.
FV&G…You make some very good pts. I, for one, was in the camp that said a .500 season would be our best hope.
Livan isn’t terrible because Gardy leaves him in there when things go poorly. He’s terrible because opponents are batting .335 against him.
No, I can’t say for certain Kubel would be less inept against LH pitching if he saw it more often.
However, I can state for a fact that over the history of baseball, most LH hitters do not hit LH pitching well.
I also am of the opinion that Kubel is not significantly better, or different, than most LH hitters who have played major league baseball. That, and watching multiple Kubel ABs against LH pitching, leads me to believe the odds of Kubel ever being a good hitter against LH pitching aren’t real high. Not zero, I agree, but not real high.
Were the Twins 15 games out, I’d be down with Kubel DH’ing every day to give him that opportunity, and see what you have going forward.
With the Twins 2.5 games out, I’d prefer those ABs go to Craig Monroe, who hasn’t done well this year, but has a history of about 900 ABs against LH pitching that tell me, going forward, I’ll take my chances on him instead of Kubel against LH pitching.
Put another way…given pretty much the most favorable matchups possible this season, Kubel has hit .259/.327/.451. Not great, but not bad either. A bit above average even. I don’t see any way possible that adding in another 100-150 UNfavorable matchups would do anything but drive those numbers down, probably to the point where he’d be seen as a failure.
After all, to date this year he’s hit .157/.279/.235 against lefties. He’s got 8 hits–only 2 for extra bases–in 61 PAs.
Graves has an ERA over 6 in Rochester. He’s also about to turn 35.
obi wan kenobi is our best hope
Okay, no Graves. Wow, why are they even keeping him?
C Mauer
1B Morneau
2B Casilla
SS Harris
3B Buscher
LF Span
CF Gomez
RF Young
DH Kubel
Util INF Punto
Everyday. Just do it!!
SP Liriano
SP Baker
SP Perkins
SP Slowey
SP Blackburn
SP Livan
Available to pitch 1-2 innings 3rd between starts.
Bullpen - Crain, Reyes, Breslow, Guerrier & Nathan.
Just do it!!
Rochester must need a “veteran presence”.
“Livan isn’t terrible because Gardy leaves him in there when things go poorly. He’s terrible because opponents are batting .335 against him.”
What are the opponents hitting against Slowey on the days that he gets “rescued” early and what would his total BAA become, if Gardy left him in those games for two more innings (ala Livan) on those days?
USAF,
I agree that it’s risky to hand those ABs to Kubel as well. However, given Monroe’s struggles, I don’t know that he’s a better option at this point. It’s a judgment call that I wouldn’t be too upset with either way, since I agree that the most important issue is having the Twins win NOW. That’s why I was a little irritated last year, that even when we were out of the race, Gardenhire still didn’t like giving Kubel ABs against LHP as regularly as he could have.
I agree 100% that Kubel’s ABs against LHP look horrendous, but I’ll make the Morneau reference again, because I can remember thinking two years ago that Morneau would be a good hitter someday, but that he would NEVER be able to handle LHP. If you would’ve told me then that he’d be hitting above .300 against them just two years later, I’d have laughed at the thought of it.
I don’t think Kubel is close to the same caliber hitter as Morneau, but I think he can eventually get the point where he can hit LHP at even a .250ish clip, and make up for it by hitting RHP above .300.
It sounds implausible now, given his numbers, but he really does have less than two full seasons of MLB experience, and keep in mind that a great deal of that was recovering from major knee surgery. I think he’s come a long away from last year already. You don’t see him strike out on that curve down and in nearly as much as he used to. Recognizing that you have a weakness in the batter’s box and improving off of it is a big step for a hitter. It’s more progress than Cuddy’s made on the outside slider anyway.
“Graves has an ERA over 6 in Rochester. He’s also about to turn 35.”
His ERA will soon turn 35, also.
Quiet kmack, the big boys are talking.
Sane,
I’ll take the guy who three-hit the Brewers any day.
I know he’s rough sometimes, but that’s damn impressive. Livan had a good outing against the Rangers, and I give him credit for that, but I find Slowey’s shutout far more impressive.
I agree, he needs to find more of an out pitch, but he’s shown he can get the job done just fine as well. I think Slowey and Baker should be kept in Twins’ uniforms at all costs.
Perkins and Blackburn are more expendable, in my opinion.
BTW, Bill Smith, I’m still waiting for you to weigh in on how much salary you’re asking Seattle to take back on that deal you’ve been talking about.
Because, as Twinsfans, we’re calling BS if you expect us to buy the stuff you’re selling. We don’t believe Seattle is asking for anything near that much for Beltre, PROVIDED THE TWINS PICK UP ALL OF BELTRE’S APPROXIMATELY $16M DUE THIS YEAR AND IN 2009.
Now, if you’re telling us you cut salary by over $15M this year, and STILL won’t pick up Beltre’s salary, then I guess I can see why Seattle would want a big package back.
But we suspect strongly if you were to ask Seattle the cost in players were the Twins to pick up all the dollars, the answer would be pretty reasonable.
So which is it?
Just for fun I went back to check Terry Felton’s career numbers with the Twins to comapre with Livan.
Felton was 0-16 with a 5.53 ERA. He pitched 138 innings and gave up 85 ER with a surprising 108 SO’s.
His WHIP is better than Livan’s.
But I guess Livan is not the worst pitcher in Twins history…yet.
By the way I saw Felton’s first ever pitch in the majors and it hit the netting behind the catcher.
Steve,
I am not dissing Slowey.
I want to keep him.
I am just partially explaining how Livan’s good W-L can coexist with his bad ERA amd bad BAA.
I strongly doubt Beltre’s salary is the hold up in any trade talks with Seattle. It’s what we’re giving up. One, we are under payroll. Two, Seattle has the money. They’re not trying to dump salary, they’re trying to improve the future of their team.
you shouldn’t ask bill smith to weigh in. he’s self concsious about that.
Baker loses 1-0, Livan wins 12-8.
“Livan wins 12-8.”
Not true.
Livan LOSES 12-8, then wins 6-3 and 4-2.
Anyone who says busher/harris is just as good as Beltre are complete idiots who need to be backhanded.
“Anyone who says busher/harris is just as good as Beltre are complete idiots who need to be backhanded.”
OK, I take it back!
Darnell MacDonald should have some trade value. I guess he is probably the insurance outfielder if Gomez, Young or Span goes down.
Someone mentioned this morning that maybe Cuddyer should be tried at 3B again. Yes, he did not hit well when he was last used there and his numbers jumped up when he landed in RF. But has not had good numbers recently. When he first came up, my thoughts were that he was a good replacement for Denny Hocking. I think that’s about where he is now.
i agree with Tyler. Also needing a bitchslap are the livan defenders.
Tyler - I wasn’t aware that anyone was saying that.
Come get some!
On that note… it’s about time I headed off to my softball game and then head up to the cabin.
Hopefully when I come back I’ll see something about Beltre or Kouzmanoff/Heath Bell.
Have a great weekend everyone! Go Twins!
If the Twins’ don’t want to trade with the Mariners for Beltre because they are asking too much. Or if the Indians don’t want to trade with the Twins for Blake because they are in the same division, maybe Melvin Mora of the Orioles could be a viable option. The Orioles are fading fast. Mora has always been a good hitter especially against southpaws. I admit he is old (36) and not having a very good year, just hitting .254. But he does have 15 homers, the same as Morneau, and 63 rbi’s. He has been having a hot July and is batting .357 this month. In almost 4500 lifetime at bats Mora has a .277 avg., .354 OBP and .438 SLG. I don’t know his contract status but I think he is making about 8 or 9 million. A trade of Mike Lamb and Boof Bonser might be enough to get him. At the same time that would dump some salary on Lamb’s contract. What do you think?
I’d rather have Brian Roberts than Mora
Jay:
No one will take lamb. otherwise, not a bad plan.
mora puts no more fear into a pitcher than buscher or d young behind morneau…in fact i would go with buscher over mora
Why the Twins don’t Trade prospects for veterans(very often) is because after the one or two years of use of the veteran, the person is either no good or has out-priced himself here. The Twins then look and see that the prospects we traded away are doing well for their new club and are playing for a lot less less money. So they hold onto the prospects and HOPE!! HOPE for a Miracle,HOPE the prospects pan out and of course HOPE the Fans continue to buy the same old song and dance. That;s a lot of hopin’!!
I think Mora would put more fear into a lefthanded pitcher than Buscher would. If Buscher had played every day this year, do you think he would have 15 homers and 63 rbi’s like Mora? Young has a better batting average than Mora but only 4 homers and 38 rbi’s
they still would not think twice to walk morneau to get at mora
There goes Span being an idiot. Do we hate him now too?
How about the Ump who called a strike instead of ball 4. Lee got a big break there.
On Casilla
but I’m guaranteeing that a lot of fans would be happy to see them just go for it for once.
Oh they’d love it for all of a day. Then Beltre would go 0-3 in his first game and the pitcher they gave up would throw a no-hitter and they’d go right back to whining about Bill Smith for the rest of the year.
See: Garza/Young Trade
We have Livan pitching against Lee. Already doesn’t look good. Argh
Well there you go. Gomez is hurt. Now he won’t be in the lineup.
This is no good. Hope the kid is ok
Well, Span to CF…Kubel in at RF.
And this will pretty much kill any kind of trades involving OFs. (Unless Pridie gets involved)
What a catch though.
This reminds me of when he took the ball to the end on that stolen base. Only now I’m more nervous because he eventually got up the last time.
That didn’t look good, but it sounded even worse.
Thank god the Cleveland fans have some class. I still remember the Sox fans booing when Lamb had to be helped off field.
You can chalk that injury up to the Twins FO. If they wouldn’t have been so damn stubborn to call up Liriano and dump Livan. NICE F***ing job Twins. Oh well, there’s always NEXT year. And you can repeat that every year!!!!
Okay…he was able to move his legs…and he was able to move his arms.
So maybe he just popped his hip, knocked the wind out of him.
But he WAS moving all four limbs on his own.
Hey WiPron, that could have happened on any flyball. Man…
wipron wins the award for A-Hole of the night. THough I doubt he’ll be able to write an acceptance speech before his computer gets sucked into that blackhole where his heart used to be.
Did anybody else get nervous when Span went for that…?
Sane, as a long time coach myself I, too, noticed that about Livan and his era. You absolutely correct, and I would and have done the same thing before. Livan can handle getting beat around and taking one for the team while the youngsters have to be handled differently. Of course, I would much rather see Liriano than Livan but I am just saying…
Nice catch Denard.
I just caught the end of what Coomer said. Did anyone hear what his report was on the injury. Man what a catch though, he had to have been in the air for three seconds.
This is looking like bad livan and not good livan. Hopefully it turns around.
Tyler, the report is that it was all precautionary. Gomez was able to have full motion.
Gardy’s s**ting bricks. The Baseball Gods hate us.
That’s apparantly a really hard wall.
*back injury
all movement in all limbs
See the difference between Span and Gomez at CF?
That’s apparantly a really hard wall.
No kidding. Forget the maple bats…
Go to the pen. Livan on the road makes me yearn for Boof.
Livan is fooling nobody. Can this please mean that Liriano will be brought up? He is pitching BP out there.
Thrylos - the wall sure doesn’t
Thankyou Mr.T
Can we be done with the Livan experiment? Please?
Night and day with Livan. You never know who’s going to show up.
What slop Livan!
This isnt fair to the twins fielders. Livian is a joke. The Twins organization is a joke…Liriano in AAA with this BS going on. Im done.
Well, we know he will give up at least 4-5 runs most of the time. Not good.
“You never know who’s going to show up.”I’m no Livan hater but you can be pretty sure which one will show up on the road.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Span was getting REAL nervous on that double there. I mean, he knew it was going to have to be a nearly identical play…
Wouldn’t be surprised if he pulled up a step late out of sheer concern for getting hurt.
Looks like we’ll get some more of the ‘Livan’s ERA is only high because he’s left in to suck up innings when he’s getting rocked’ theory.
I can’t think of one good reason this start should have went to Livan instead of Liriano.
well i wonder how serious the back injury is going to be. Really hard to tell with back injuries.
it might be time to say goodbye to Livan. He is not horrible, but he is the weakest pithcer in this rotation, and we have and ACE that needs a spot
Anyways, I just hope that Gomez is ok but that looked pretty bad. You have to give it for the kid. Great hustle and playing the game with no consideration about his body.
Well, I go ahead and put Gomez on the DL and call up Liriano. Give him a start or two (go with the four OFs and use a guy like Punto in an emergency) to see if he’s for real.
If he is, you dump Livan when Gomez comes back (or sooner if the opportunity arises)
I don’t know if Kubel has ever had infield experience in the past but I was just wondering if anyone else knew? I hear some people saying they would like cuddyer to convert back to 3rd base and was thinking kubel is about the same. Also would anyone be opposed to getting old Ron Coomdog out of that FSN booth and back at 3rd base?
That’s one of those plays that if Gomez recovers he learns how to make better next tiem.
Christ Young, at least make him throw the ball!
T
I agree, but i thought you were on livan bandwagon.
Kubel batting between Punto and Span.
This’ll be interesting…
Wow, Monroe cant hit a beach ball
T - What are you saying? Don’t think Kubes can keep up?
I like him as a pinch hitter, but how many strikeouts and ground balls does Gardy need to see?? he is just not cut out to be a starter, as I said though, i think he is a good bench option to a power laden team.
Don’t think Kubes can keep up?
Well, let’s say it’ll make bunting situations interesting.
And Tyler, I’ve never been on a Livan bandwagon. I’ve always looked at Livan as a cheaper Carlos Silva. He’s done that for the Twins (At least comparred to 07 Silva…comparred to 07 Silva he’s Cy Young)
I’ve never thought of him as the ace, and I recognize that he’s the weak link.
GEEEEEZZZZZ
Gutierrez apparently aggravated he wasn’t able to get involved last inning.
I still don’t think we dump Livan. Dump bass and move livan to the pen. Homerun as I type this. Mind changing..
Whheeeeee…
Can I get off the ride now?
comparred to 07 Silva he’s Cy Young)
That should be 08 Silva.
Livan did not even give the Twins a chance in this game.
Livan/Bass is break even.
On the plus side you can go back to Livan if one of the other guys in the Rot’ gets hurt.
When the Sox play the Tigers, it’s no win for the Twins.
T
Your right, I do remember you saying that. No matter what people say he has been a benefit to this team. The Twins need to say thankyou for the first half of the season and trade him for bull pen help, unless if they trade young pitching to the M’s for Beltre.
“you can go back to Livan if one of the other guys in the Rot’ gets hurt.”
I’d rather they go get Mulvey if that situation arises.
As a matter of fact, I’d rather they go get Bert out of the booth.
At least he’s eaten two more innings.
All batters vs. Hernandez on the road:
.390 / .412 / .571, .983 OPS.
Can we trade for that?
<I?unless if they trade young pitching to the M’s for Beltre.
See, that’s where I think there could be problems with dumping Livan to make room for Liriano.
Who do trust to call up to take over for the traded player in a playoff race?
It pisses me off that Liriano has not been called up to pitch the opening game for the white Sox, what does he need to prove? Just give the kid a shot!! The last thing we need is to have him pissed at the organization, be a significantly more talented version of Garza, and not sign long term with the Twins.
hey, im stuck at work right now and can’t watch the game. By the sounds of it it’s a disaster! But i was just wondering the score?
5-0 is the score.
T
As we all know, you only need 3 pitchers in the playoffs, and if you start with Liriano and Baker in both previously mentioned situations, that is not too bad. Roll the dice with one of Slowly/Blackburn/Perk as the third pitcher.
T - Kubes has a two base headstart. Should be ok this time.
Hmm…maybe Kubel hits ni the 9 spot frmo here out?
Oh I know about that Tyler…I’m just thinking about what they do with the rotation between now and the playoffs.
That fifth starter’s going to have pitch from time to time.
Hey a run!
Can we let someone else eat some innings now?
Tony, the two innings eaters for the Twins are Bass and Boof.
Last I checked, they’re not really any better than Livan.
They almost have to be tonight. And I was more talking about after tonight for the rest of the season.
Wow Harris.
Indians hitters in this game:
.667 / .571 / 1.083
Livan makes mediocre offenses better than Babe Ruth.
It’s amazing…he shut down the Texas lineup, and I’d say top to bottom their way better than Cleveland.
I honestly wonder if a lot of it how many times he’s faced the team factoring in.
But the Texas game was at home.
Did Cleveland score ten on him before in what 2 innings before? Is my memory correct?
T
my bad, well i assume that the Twins would either trade one young pitcher for Beltre OR dump livan, so if they do one or the other you would be fine.
Liriano
Baker
Livan
2 or Slowly/Blackburn Perkins
Liriano
Baker
the three kids.
Plus Boof is a good emergency pitcher in my opinion.
I do not think the pitching barring a trade of Livan or one of our pitcher is not a problem. Even if they trade Livan AND of of Slowly/Blackburn/Perkins, I think their rotation would be fine
Liriano
Baker
Perkins/Slowly/Blackburn
Perkins/Slowly/Blackburn
BOOOOOFFFF
