Twins 10, White Sox 6: Gardenhire gets the game ball
Posted on July 31st, 2008 – 11:46 PMBy Joe Christensen
So, how big was tonight’s 10-6 victory over the White Sox?
“That’s the best game by far, this year, emotionally,” Twins pitcher Scott Baker said. “I don’t know how many walk-offs we’ve had in the ninth inning, but that beats them all.”
The players gave Manager Ron Gardenhire the game ball, though he felt a little sheepish after drawing the fifth ejection of the season and 41st of his career.
“You know what, the umpires here are pretty good,” he said. “And I feel real bad about that, kicking my hat and causing all that ruckus out there. I don’t like that. I know my wife hates it.”
Carol Gardenhire was sitting right outside the clubhouse waiting for him as he said this.
The highlight came when her husband punted his cap. Amazingly, the cap soared about 15 feet in the air before landing flat as a pancake.
“Kicking the hat was probably a little much,” he said. “I hope Coach [Brad] Childress saw that, in case he ever needs a kicker.”
Two months to go, and Chicago has a one-game lead over the Twins in the loss column.
“If this is how fun it’s going to be,” Jason Kubel said, “we’ve got a lot to look forward to.”
132 Responses to "Twins 10, White Sox 6: Gardenhire gets the game ball"
In 1987, (the ancient past to many), the Mariners had a fine first baseman named Alvin Davis. Mr. Davis marveled at the Twins ability to win at home despite their paltry record on the road. Immediately after sweeping a four game home series from the M’s, Davis’ only remarks were to describe the Twins as a team that, like a shark, could smell our blood and attack! The current edition of the Twins may not be the sluggers of ‘87 but they sure have been responding appropriately of late. Fine win, fellas!
Game ball absolutely goes to Gardy. During the 4 game series in Chicago we had no fire in our bellies and got the crap kicked out of us. This time the bully came into our house and we punched him in the mouth. Throw Minnesota nice out the window and start throwing baseball caps! You want some more Ozzie? We got more where that came from! Next series A.J. gets the first pitch he sees right in his ribs!
“I hope Coach [Brad] Childress saw that, in case he ever needs a kicker.”
haha, good ol gardy. there was no reason for gardy to be ejected that quickly and he had every reason to punt his hat. sweet lou had a smile on his face if he saw the highlights.
but gardy really did spark the crowd (positively after the hat thing) and sparked the team. this was a huge win and a sign that this team isn’t going anywhere.
what a day! I’m glad the emotions are high, hopefully we can take it on the road
Twins runs scored:
3 - pre punt
7 - post punt
Go Gardy!
Anybody have the total number of ejections that Tom Kelly had in his career? It was less than 10 wasn’t it?
Well, for everyone wondering if the Twins would come out flat and dejected tonight because the FO didn’t make a blockbuster deadline deal… I think you got your answer.
This team believes in itself, even if many of their fans don’t. Good for them.
here was no reason for gardy to be ejected that quickly
Actually he was arguing balls/strikes, thus automatic ejection.
does hit batter or no hit batter really count as arguing “balls and strikes”?
The argument wasn’t whether he was hit. It was whether squaring around to bunt counts as more than a check swing.
Take a swing at a pitch, and even if it hits you it’s still a strike.
It was a horrible call. Gardy did what was needed, he fired his team. Maybe a little too much over the top, but it worked in the end. Still need an 8th inning guy, though Guerrier looked really tough after the HR, maybe a wake-up call?
Should say fired his team up. Sorry, its early.
Gardy didn’t do anything. The White Sox bullpen was atrocious. Dotel made one of the worst pitches I’ve ever seen to Kubel.
I was quite surprised by how much this was downplayed nationally. Not the win as much as the fan behavior. Had that happened in a place like New York or Chicago I think we’re still talking about it.
And likely the Commish would feel “compelled” into coming up with some new lame policy.
———–
I’m glad the crowd was able to get itself back under control. Morneau’s homer was a sign the team wasn’t going to go quietly. I would’ve hate to see the crowd cost the team a game (which had it happened by the way would’ve caused a LOT more trouble)
I fault the umpiring staff for letting it get out of hand. First the terrible call, then the almost automatic ejection (”balls and strikes is automatic” my butt, Dye earlier in the evening had a few choice words for the home plate ump after a called K)
Had the ump been less trigger happy, Gardy (and the fans) get a chance to vent.
What I’m actually most shocked about is that Ozzie’s yelling match with a fan in the stands isn’t getting any more discussion than it has been. The Punt is one thing, but to actually get into it with a fan?
He does it all the time, which to me is a HUGE problem. It’s things like that which bother me more than managers going on tirades. The whole idea of an in-game tirade is to release the tension that’s building in a controlled manner. But NEVER take it to the fans. Ever.
But whatever. Gardy’s Punt revived the team last night. Once Span got on base for the 2nd time in the seventh, I knew this was going to be a win. The bullpen unraveled, the fielding unraveled.
Things got hot and they lost their cool. Credit the Twins for not losing their heads in the moment.
I wouldn’t be surprised if over in Chicago their blaming the delay and the fans for the loss.
But that was the turning point in the game. Once Gardy got tossed, the fans got on their feet and they didn’t sit down the rest of the way through.
responding to T:
“”balls and strikes is automatic” my butt…”
The ejection of Gardy was automatic, and I presume your anatomy includes a butt, so you get 50% credit.
here’s the rule and comment in full:
Rule 9.02(a) Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.
Rule 9.02(a) Comment: Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game.
anyone else think souhan’s article today is utterly preposterous?
Oh I know the rule, my objection was that it was apparently the reason for Gardy’s argument.
Gardy’s ejection was inevitable, but I rarely see coaches or players tossed that fast.
Like I said during the game, the faster the manager gets ejected, the more likely he’s right.
TNG: I don’t like the idea of trading Liriano, but he brings up some valid points.
It’s the same thing the Twins almost went with in the potential Ellsbury deal. That would’ve been buying high on Ellsbury.
That said, I still think its a bad idea. The Twins already dealt Santana and Garza. They need to give Liriano a chance before they try and move him as well.
We don’t know if Liriano is the White Knight that we all make him out to be. If the Twins traded somebody else and called up Liriano, it would be the ultimate risk.
It’s still that today. If they dump Livan and call up Liriano, that’s it. If he stumbles, then the only other option is Boof.
Gardenhire is an embarrassment to the Minnesota Twins. He is grossly overweight and knows nothing about managing a baseball team except how to get thrown out of a game. They say he then goes into the clubhouse to drink beer and eat pizza, which may be the real reason he tries to get thrown out. Getting thrown out of less games might help keep his weight problem from ballooning any further and present a better image to the sports world.
TNG
I agree. Although i do not think that Souhan is an awful writer like some, I do completely agree that his piece was completely, as you mentioned, preposterous. I would also use other such words to describe that piece:
LAME
FAKE
WTF
STUPID
ILLOGICAL
INSANE
PESSIMISTIC
HORRIBLE
VOMIT WRENCHING
DISGUSTING
DUMB
All in all, I am very glad that Souhan in not our GM. Although i hate that saying, in this case “the best trade is no trade”.
TNG, I didn’t have to get past the headline to know Souhan wasn’t worth reading today.
Harrelson, on the Sox broadcast, made what I thought was a very good point (insert blind squirrel/nut comment here) last night during the Twins come back. He said something along the lines that it looked like the Twins were the team in the lead, the Sox were doing the chasing and becoming unraveled.
One other observation… if you’d have told me going in to the series the Twins would win 3 of 4, I’d have said, ‘OK’. But if you’d have told me they’d win the 3 games facing lefty STs and lose the game facing a struggling young righty, I wouldn’t have believed you.
“He(Gardenhire) is grossly overweight”
Please explain the relevance, and also “grossly”? Wait till you see some of my ex girlfriends. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
STs=SPs (as in starting pitchers). Not sure how that happened. T and P are nowhere near one another on the keyboard. Ah well. I need coffee.
“It’s still that today. If they dump Livan and call up Liriano, that’s it. If he stumbles, then the only other option is Boof.”
I am actually not afraid to give the ball every fifth day to Boof, if the situation calls for it. I think he is MUCH better than Livan, but not as smart. With time and Mauer behind the plate, I think he could have a decent 2nd half if given a shot.
i don’t often agree with souhan, i think he’s an arrogant jerk, however, this time i do. i certainly think that liriano can’t be any worse than livan is at this time and would give us a better chance. imo he will never be the pitcher he was in 06 and anything less than that will have the fans and bloggers in another frenzy. it’s kind of a no win either way unless the near impossible happens and he returns to the pre injury guy. if he could have brought beltre i think it would have been a good trade, but then i still have memories of joe mays……..
ya, I’d also use ‘ridonkulous’.
gets even worse when he says to throw in Delmon Young…
SCOTTY:
You are right. In addition to obese, a drunk, and anger management reject, he has poor mechanics, gets too much hang time, and outkicks his coverage.
To Scotty and all the other anti-Gardy posters. When the Twins traded Santana and lost Torii, these very pages were filled with criticism about how bad we would look this season. Many predicted no better than a .500 record and that we would be dumping Nathan and others by July.
Well July has come and gone and the Twins are in the hunt. There is no way that anyone can compare the Twins record, their starting line up, and the long list of injuries that they have endured and say that Gardy should be fired. He is doing one heck of a job managing a very young and inexperienced team
gobble - I don’t expect Liriano to be that ‘06 guy either, but I think about 3/4 or more could be expected. And 3/4 of ‘06 Liriano is still this staff’s Ace. And he’s only 24 years old, and its only his first year after coming back, and were suppose to be building for the future(with how the deadline shook out), and he’s the ‘Franchise’ for a reason: The team around him gave him that name, they have uber-confidence in him, thats a big help to any team when they feel that way about a guy on the mound for them.
Good comments, all. Souhan is Souhan, enough said. What stands out most of all last night was the Twins’ mental toughness, although it took Gardy to get the juices flowing. The Sox really are dreadful on defense. One of the plans for Griffey, we’re told, is to put him in center and move Swisher to first. That weakens both positions on a team that is already challenged defensively. Span gives every evidence of being a superb lead off hitter, Everett is as lost as ever at the plate, and if Kubel were ever to play everyday he’d easily drive in a hundred runs.
I have to agree with JaTEE. I don’t think Gardy makes good decisions all the time, and he is certainly not above criticism. However, this team is in contention this year, and he deserves some of the credit. As does Terry Ryan, whom I’ve criticized many times on these blogs. Smith, not as much (but maybe some), as most of the contributions have been from guys from w/in the system who are only playing because Smith’s guys are injured or really bad.
I for one am not expecting a 2.1 ERA like before. I think he will end up being slightly better than baker with a 3.1-3.5 ERA and a good amount of K’s.
souhan never misses a chance to pick on young, however, the good thing is he’s going to china for a month, don’t let the door hit you in the a**.
god now i can’t get joe mays out of my head what a nightmare.
DAVE:
The White Sox GM said they’ll put Griffey in Center because it’s the easiest position.
well i wonder when we will get more info on whether or not the Twins will DFA Leeeevan.
Griffy will be a COMPLETE disaster for the White Sox. Offensively, defensively, on the base baths you name it. Griffy is gonna cost the White Sox the pennant
T,
“If they dump Livan and call up Liriano, that’s it. If he stumbles, then the only other option is Boof.”
Another option which is better than Boof (or Livan) is Kevin Mulvey (3.89 ERA, 88 K, 24 BB, 111 IP at AAA.)
He is no guarantee, but we have already seen Boof (6.67 ERA) and Livan (5.48 ERA.
I prefer the unknown (3.89 ERA at AAA) to the known. (6.67/5.48 ERA’s in MLB)
Anyone else think Randy Ruiz deserves a call up or opportunity to be this teams RH DH and PH bat? Dude is lighting it up at Rochester.
That’s 88 K, 34 BB at AAA for Mulvey.
You know… Ozzie had to, at some point last night, look out at the Twins’ outfield and see Gomez, Span and Young… and think, “… and I get Griffey to play CF?”
Then about that time, Swisher showed what kind of talent he has digging balls out of the dirt. Couldn’t have been a good thought for Oz.
I would give Ruiz Monroe’s job in a heartbeat.
I’d probably roll the dice on Ruiz at this point. Monroe has proven (to me at least) that he is better than what they had last year, but not good enough. At least with Ruiz there is a chance he’s actually good enough to PH or DH against lefties.
I agree with Sane. But, that is probably obvious from my Ruiz reply also.
Tyler - that’s what I’m thinkin. and lookin at his stats he’s crushin Lefty’s and Righty’s equally good. and I’m pretty sure he leads ALL of AAA in extra base hits…
I doubt though that the Twins would dump Monroe at this point. I think they might give Ruiz a shot next year, but as well as their dumping Levan, whats adding Lamb and Monroe gonna hurt, get it all over with.
I dont know what I think of Souhans column today.
I myself disagree on trading Liriano. But, I do think the Twins have been to timid about trading talent to get talent. I guess I was heartened by trading Garza for Young. I dont know if I like the trade now, but at the time it showed the Twins brass was coming to grips with the concept that in order to get value, you sometimes have to give up value. You just cant always keep your young prospects for the future. Sometimes the future is now, even though we are surprised to know we are in contention now.
But, I did not agree on Liriano, any of the other young guys yes, but not Liriano.
People will say that while we are in playoff contention, we will never get buy Angels, Bosox, Y anks anyway.
Thats what people said in 87 about the tigers, yet we one that best of 5 game series in four games.
Ruiz is no spring chicken. He should get a shot now. They need to find out if he can contribute before playoff rosters are set. We already know Monroe cannot really contribute (more than 1 in 10 times). If Gardy won’t play him, why keep him on the roster?
The umpires are pretty good, Gardy? Are you serious, or just trying not to get fined again? The call on Span was the latest abysmal call against a team that has had more than its share.
I’m with mike.
Liriano replaces Livan with Mulvey as a backup plan.
Cuddyer replaces Monroe with Ruiz as a backup plan.
more on Ruiz:
.315 vs Lefties in 111 AB. 4 HR, 17 RBIs, .881 OPS.
.321 vs Righties in 305 AB. 13 HR, 51 RBI, .909 OPS.
is top 5 in ALL OF AAA in extra base hits with 53(leader has 56). is third in doubles with 33, has 3 triples, and is up there in HRs with 17.
last 10 games: .441 avg., 6 2Bs, 3 HRs, 12 RBI.
Ruiz will get a shot in September, if not sooner. I see him as a guy who could be very effective for a short run, when pitchers don’t know him and they don’t have time to get a “book” on how to pitch to him. Whether he can produce over an entire season in the Bigs, I just don’t think you can know. But for the last month of this season? I don’t see how they can’t give him a shot.
Huge win for the club. Gardy is having his best year coaching. The team was snoozing towards a loss and needed a spark. That strike call was stupid.
call me negative, and I am happy with the series win, but it really torks me how year after year, while other teams make moves to help themselves, cheap Carl and fat Billy just sit on their derriers and do nothing
Bulk,
“The call on Span was the latest abysmal call against a team that has had more than its share.”
Tes, the umpires, the media (led by the Eastern Sports Promotional Network), both political parties, and all the major religions are part of a world-wide conspiracy to f-ck up the Twins.
The next meeting is tomorrow night in the West Wing of the White House.
Don’t be late!
my bottom line is that the Twins win DESPITE the front office, not because of it. All the front office does is sign old no good retreads in the off season instead of making solid moves.
The Twins are winning because from Gardy on down, they are performing. I still question Gardys pitching moves, like leaving Livan in there long after its clear he done, and putting game out of reach, but overall, one cant gripe.
Its like griping about Mauers lack of power. At the end of the day, he gets the job done.
I disagree with Souhan that trading Liriano could right “a winter’s worth of mistakes”, by the front office.
While it’s true that every move Bill Smith has made so far, has hurt the team, trading Liriano would be just another mistake. Especially trading him for a mediocre player like Beltre.
Perhaps Smith’s lack of success has made him a little gun shy to make a deal. Perhaps he is listening a little closer to his senior advisor, Terry Ryan. Either way, as we have already learned from Billy’s deals, no deal can be much better than a bad deal.
I agree with you Jim, he’ll definitely be up in September, but I want him up earlier so he can be put on the post season roster (though, someone can always get “injured” to make room if he really excels).
Craig, I do agree with you on Liriano, but I think he could have parted with one of the other young pitchers
Forget about Randy Ruiz. He is not a major league ballplayer. Gardy has turned to Redmond as Kubels platoon partner. Redmond hits LHP very well.
Original Kevin,
You are one of the blogs few voices of reason. Haven’t heard from you much lately, though.
I have a more general question. Kubel is obviously a power hitter, by Twins standards anyway. So why platoon him?
Sure, he will not get as many homers hitting lefties, but he may get more home runs even off of lefties than whoever else they put in. You would not platoon Mauer or Morneau for example.
If Kubel has 14 home runs in the number of ABs he has, I would think he might have maybe another half dozen more if he played every day. Comments?
sane says:
August 1st, 2008 at 8:55 am
That’s 88 K, 34 BB at AAA for Mulvey.
mulvey isn’t on the 40 man roster now so i would doubt they would do that and start his setrvice time clock for a few starts, however, stranger things have happened.
O. K. - I agree that he could of parted with one Slowey, Perkins, or Blackburn, or Mulvey. and a little dude I love but won’t really have a shot at making this team any time while Delmon, Gomez, Span and Cuddyer are around could have been a good piece to a trade while his stock is high: Ben Revere.
Aaron Hicks is doing damn good in Rookie League as well.
I love the Twins draft so far this year, the top 3 guys are all doin well(Shooter Hunt has been the best pitcher in all of minor league ball since he started playing, i don’t care about the league he’s in when saying this)
Randy Ruiz is not an answer to anything. He’s a seasoned AAA player facing AAA pitching, other teams’ versions of Cali, Daigle, and Humber. He would eventually get chewed alive by MLB pitching, like Garrett Jones did last year. He can’t catch a cold, so he’s worthless on D. We don’t need to take AB’s away from Kubel, Cuddy, Span, or even Monroe in my view, in anticipation of Ruiz slaughtering Buehrle and Danks in September. Ain’t gonna happen.
The replay shows that Span clearly retracted his bat. He did not offer at it. It was a horrendous call. It also is a type of call that upmires rarely ever get wrong. And to call it wrong the way that gives the hit batsman a strike is unbelievable.
Not factoring in when the Twins play in NY, I’d say about 50% of the bad calls have gone in the Twins favor, and about 50% have gone against them. Seems to happen every year.
In NY, the Yankees always get the call, but that has to do with job security for the umpires, and is a whole different issue.
birdofpery: you are probably right about everything you wrote, except the Monroe part. It is hard to imagine Ruiz would be worse, and there is a tiny chance he’d be better. I’d roll the dice on that one.
Radke looked foolish for a year when he came up. Santana didn’t shine either. Most pitchers struggle for awhile before establishing themselves, so I find it curious that we tend to extrapolate the numbers. Why wouldn’t Mulvey struggle too? I like him, but would be inclined to accept the FO’s opinion that he may not be ready yet. Next year, yes, as a replacement starter when the fiest one gets shut down. In my view, the Twins have a conscious plan regarding starters, which is to keep a reserve of two, even three guys who, when called upon, won’t struggle any worse than Radke did or Bonser has at the start of their MLB career.
Original Kevin,
As DH, it’s easy for the manager to just slip a RH bat into the line-up instead of Kubel. He doesn’t lose a good fielder. Being a good fielder is what kept Jacque jones in the line-up against LHP. Kubel looks completely helpless against some LHP. It’s tough for a manager to justify keeping him in there, since he can’t help in the field. If a DH can’t hit, he’s worthless. That’s my read on it anyway.
Mike wants wins: I’d like to see them jettison Monroe nad go with five OF’s: Young, Gomez, Span, Cuddyer, and Kubel. No need for Ruiz.
isnt Monroe, despite his usual ineptness, one of the leading HR on the team?
Ruiz’ AB/K ratio is way out of whack. If he can’t make better contact than that in AAA, he isn’t going to earn a promotion to the major leagues. Not with the Twins.
birdofprey: that makes sense. For some reason I blocked Cuddy’s return out of my head. I agree, when cuddy comes up, Monroe has to go. If cuddy gets hurt again, then Ruiz can come up.
bird,
I think that is exactly what they plan to do.
how about bring up ruiz and dfa monroe until cuddy comes off the dl. give ruiz a chance, he can’t be any worse than monroe.
kmack: You should say “fired up his team.” If ‘fired’ and ‘up’ are not together, it’s called a split infinitive.
I’m the grammarian about whom your mother warned you.
Craig, it is that argument exactly that makes some people say Adam Dunn is worthless. Which, if you add in his walks and his power, is ridiculous. Gotta look at all the stats.
And, it isn’t about Ruiz vs ARod here, it is about Ruiz vs Monroe (though, I guess it is really cuddy, and Ruiz loses that comparison).
Mulvey is an emergency backup plan if
Livan is shipped, and Liriano is recalled.
One of the assinine arguments against promoting Liriano (and shipping Livan)is that we would then have only five serviceable starting pitchers. (no backup)
Mulvey has the credentials to be that emergency backup, while he continues to pitch at AAA.
I’m not so sure, gobbleguy, that Ruiz would even outperform Monroe. I bet not. And we had one game where both Span and Gomez got jarred at the wall, so why take chances with that stuff on the remote bet that Ruiz is going to come through at the MLB level? He’s not a viable answer to a real problem.
it is the biggest no brainer in all of baseball to get rid of Livan and bring Liriano up. Its ridiculous that this is even a topic for conversation, it should have been done at All Star break time.
Mulvey as the next call-up makes sense, Sane. Someone is going to go down before this is over. That’s just the odds.
TN&IC - almost every Power hitting players’ AB/K ratio is out of whack. and look at Craig Monroe’s ratio, not exactly losing anything in that regard.
I’ll take the potential in Ruiz’s .320 avg. and all the extra base hits he gets over the fact he K’s too much.
mike,
I’m not a fan of Dunn, but he isn’t worthless. Ruiz isn’t in Dunn’s category as you know.
I would take Monroe over Ruiz. Monroe at least can play in the field. Ruiz can’t play anywhere.
and how many games has Monroe actually played in the field this year?
11, and most of them were after Pinch Hitting, not so much losing anything there either
Craig - you beat me to it. Ruiz is striking out at ~150k/yr pace (140+ in 550 AB’s) at AAA. I don’t watch Redwings baseball, so I’m not sure if he’s fanning on breaking balls, or can’t catch up to high-heat, or what. The level of talent from AAA to the majors, especially if he flails at breaking balls, means Ruiz would K 200 times up here, if given 550-600 AB’s.
There was never, ever, any intention of trading Cuddy, even healthy. He’s one of Gardy’s guys - and is the “RH power bat” they need. The team believes in him (FO/Manager) & the players believe in him. I don’t think it’s a question of rotating cuddy through the lineup/outfield. When he comes back, I’m sure RF is his unless he plays terribly (because of injury not 100% healed). It’s the young guys - span/gomez/young who will see AB’s decreased slightly. Come playoff atmosphere time, Gardy is going to want his seasoned players in there, which doesn’t mean rookie/rookie/2nd yr in Span/gomez/young.
I think Matt Macri or Darnell McDonald are in line ahead of Ruiz, if the Twins would call up a right handed hitter.
Both can play in the field, and both can run, unlike Ruiz. They also make better contact.
It’s easy to look at a half-season of AAA stats and drool over the prospect of replicating them for the MLB team. It just is so rare that it happens. I think both Buscher and Span had better a OPS% than Ruiz, and some are unhappy with Buscher now, right? Ruiz is probably not a MLB player, long-term, but he’s helped make Rochester one of the better offensive teams in their league. I love Ruiz as a Red Wing.
TN&IC - Darnell Mcdonald was lost for the season last night or the night before. Too bad, cause I agree with you on that…
And the last thing this team needs is another impatient swing at everything hitter.
Look how much Span & Casilla have contributed to this lineup this year. Much of that comes from plate discipline - seeing pitches, and allowing the guys hitting behind them to get a good feel for what’s coming.
Ooooh, but if Ruiz is striking out every AB - at least he’d see three (or maybe four, with a foul!) pitches. Perhaps we should have him hit leadoff, if Span goes down. That’s 3 or 4x as many pitches as gomez sees!
I’m not saying Ruiz would duplicate his AAA stats, I’m not an idiot, I’m just saying he deserves a shot when the guy on the MLB team that has the role he’d take isn’t exactly lighting anything up->Craig Monroe.
Darnell McConald is hurt, and out for the year.
echo…
Gardy should thank Ozzie for blowing that game before he could s crew it up.
Ruiz is the kind of player an organization adds to provide some punch for their AAA affiliate. Ruiz has reached the highest level he can succeed at.
craig - Thing is, Ruiz is a career .300 hitter in the minors and has never even gotten a shot at MLB. Why not give him a chance for reasons stated above?
TNC, all I’m saying is it’s probably not solving anything to replace Monroe with Ruiz. It’a coin flip between poison ivy and poison oak. And it’s a problem that goes away when Cuddyer gets healthy and can “rotate” with Kubel and Span in RF and DH.
Mcdonald and Pridie are players who could probably play the field, and run the bases, in the majors. Their bats would likely only be good for extremely limited duty. Ruiz, on the other hand, offers nothing at the major league level.
i can agree with that…but how do you know unluss you actually try?
thats all I’m after, giving the guy a shot, because he’s been a very consistent performer his entire minor league career.
It does become moot when Cuddyer comes back though, cause I’m pretty sure Cuddy aint gonna play in the outfield when he comes back, unless the twins bench Gomez. That leaves Cuddy or Kubel as the DH. which sux too cause it takes ABs away from Kubel…
Don’t quite understand why everyone is so down on Monroe. Without his double last Sunday..we don’t WIN that game. He has won a few games for us.
Too bad about McDonald. What was his injury?
I wouldn’t go so far to say as Ruiz can’t run the bases…he does have 1 SB! and 3 Triples! (gomez only has 4…)
This post was sarcastic if you didn’t pick up on it.
broken hand
What was his injury?
Strained his back trying to dig his out from underneath Young, Gomez, Span, Pridie, Cuddyer, Monroe, and Kubel.
One of the assinine arguments against promoting Liriano (and shipping Livan)is that we would then have only five serviceable starting pitchers. (no backup)
I was looking at it more as an issue if they did all of the above AND traded for Beltre.
“Come playoff atmosphere time, Gardy is going to want his seasoned players in there, which doesn’t mean rookie/rookie/2nd yr in Span/gomez/young.”
Which means there will be NO “playoff atmosphere time”.
[broken hand] which is ironic and fitting for the twins this year….
JT wrote: “Many predicted no better than a .500 record…”
Ummm…
Last year at this point the Twins were 55-53 — 5 games behind where they are this year, with 25 games left to play at home.
They finished the 2007 season 4 games under.
This year they’ve got just 24 games left in the Dome, and 30 on the road.
Oh — and the worst team road ERA in the AL.
Good luck finishing above .500! Seriously!
I know this is late and all, but it needs to be said: Joe, you claim that Detroit improved itself by trading Pudge for Farnsworth. But how does that make Detroit better? Pudge is still a very good defensive catcher who is adequate at the plate. He has to be an upgrade over Inge, who hasn’t caught regularly for three years and was never very good behind the plate. My analysis is this: the Tigers lose something when they get rid of Pudge. And they only did this move out of desperation because of injuries to Jones and Zumaya. The Tigers did not improve their bullpen, they lost their catcher.
Souhan said it in his column: The Tigers made themselves better by adding Farnsworth and the Yankees made themselves better by adding Pudge. Huh? They also made themselves worse in some way by subtracting the players in the trade. It’s a zero sum game. Why can’t sports writers see that?
Craig, you certainly know a lot about Randy Ruiz. How many Red Wings games have you been to this season?
As far as not having a position, the Twins have plenty of outfielders with or without Craig Monroe.
cmath- word man. I actually was of the ‘what the hell is detroit thinking’ reaction when I heard they traded Pudge. they are not a better team after that move unless all the other guys on the Detroit team didn’t like him for some reason and was causing problems…
cmath,
“The Tigers made themselves better by adding Farnsworth and the Yankees made themselves better by adding Pudge”
The point being that they patched open wounds. (Tigers relief pitching and Yankees catching)
If those teams can cover their trade losses with good minor league callups,
then they “made themselves better”.
cmatt: both teams could make themselves better, it is not a zero sum game. Most transactions aren’t zero sum, in all of life, but most people think they are.
Now, I’m not sure if either team is better, actually, but it is not improbable that both could be (or that both could be worse).
Pridie, another guy heating up. He’s certainly better than Monroe, as he can field too. I have no idea if he is RH or LH.
I hope Cuddy doesn’t steal time from Kubel. Gomez is the guy that should sit the most of those three right now (except as a defensive sub late in the game or pinch runner).
well…just as I was about to post a hate laced tirade toward the Twins front office for more status quo BS at the trade deadline, the Twins showed me last night that no trade may have been the RIGHT answer. We just need Gardy to punt his hat every night the Twins are struggling offensively by about the fifth inning. Goodness, and to all of you Twins fans at the game last night…shame on you and GOOD FOR YOU all at the same time. As a Dallas resident born and raised in the Twin Cities, I have heard A LOT about how sports fans in Minnesota lack passion. Well, guess what WE DON’T and it showed last night (even if it was in a juvenile manner). Thanks for Gardy and the fans (and the players, too of course), August and September are gonna be fun (and expensive for me…I just signed up for the MLB package on my Direct TV…gotta see this for myself) this is gonna be a better run than that run of 2006. Go get ‘em boys.
The problem with the system is that umpires are not held accountable for their mistakes, and, thus, the only recourse that a team has is to protest a bad call (and the only recourse the fans have is to get ticked off and throw their hats on the field). If there were a way to hold umps accountable for their bad decision, I think you would see a lot lest player, manager, and fan protesting. But as it stands we hold the unrealistic expectation that these umps are infallible and that their decisions should never be questioned. That is why the whole system is so frustrating that it leads to Gardy’s tirade, George Brett’s tirade, Lou Pinnella’s tirade, etc. MLB should come up with a system to address and grant relief (or dole out punishment)when the umps make horrible calls that have the potential to have dramatic consequences on the outcome of a game.
When Cuddy comes back, Gardy will mix and match his five OF. Kubel will sit against LHP, and Gomez will begin to sit more often against RHP. That makes sense, when you consider how the players have performed.
If those teams can cover their trade losses with good minor league callups,
then they “made themselves better”
Well, in the Yankees case, they made other moves that improved their bullpen and made Farnsworth expendable. So they did get better. But the Tigers got worse in part because Fransworth is only a Band-Aid on the spurting artery that is their bullpen and in part because the guy they will use to back fill Rodriguez is a poor defensive catcher.
The Twins often use 8-10 starters during the year. That is common. They have little starting pitching depth right now.
People make too big of a thing over the calls of the umpires. Over the course of 162 games, it all evens out. Don’t worry about it.
Regarding the Tigers and White Sox, I think both teams made themselves weaker, with their deals. Much like the Twins did in the off-season, when they added Monroe, Lamb, Livan and Everett, and traded away Santana and Garza.
mike wants wins, Pridie is a LH bat.
cmath,
The Tigers had to help their bullpen in any way possible.
If they have a Drew Butera clone in their minor league system, he could cover for Inge (at catcher) late in the game, defensively.
When pitchers can’t pitch, as a last resort excuse, they will sometimes start pointing fingers at the catcher. I wonder if that happened to Pudge.
Which means there will be NO “playoff atmosphere time”.
Sane - I would say last night was a playoff atmosphere. I’d say all 4 games of this set were. Moving forward the intensity will only be ratcheted up, which makes having a veteran in Cuddyer all the more important.
Oh — and the worst team road ERA in the AL.
Good luck finishing above .500! Seriously!
16 of those 30 road games are against SEA/OAK/KC/CLE, and I would expect a 10-6 record. That means we only need to go 5-9 in the other 14 to go .500 on the road the rest of the way. Granted, those games are against TB/ANA/TOR/BAL, but I don’t think a .500 record is out of the question - especially if we don’t have Livan and his 7.22 road ERA.
I would also say this team would kick the crap outta last years team in a 7 game series… Yes the road ERA has been horrendous, but any of you stats guys - if you take out the CHI/BOS/NYY sweeps, what does that do to our road ERA? Three bad series - VERY bad series - but I’d imagine we’re pretty decent in the rest, considering we’re 23-18 in road games not including those 10.
scooter,
“I would say last night was a playoff atmosphere. I’d say all 4 games of this set were.”
And how would you say that Span, Gomez and Delmon performed in that “playoff atmosphere”?
Why would you want to dump a recovering, chronically-injured, above average player with mangled fingers, who hasn’t played in a month, into that mix to take at-bats away from the three young outfielders?
If they have a Drew Butera clone in their minor league system, he could cover for Inge (at catcher) late in the game, defensively.
Catcher is not like third base or something, where you can afford to put a good-hit-no-field guy until the late innings. What the catcher does in the heat of the game determines the effectiveness of the pitcher. Name the last team to win anything with a defensive liability behind the plate.
Answer: The 1991 Twins had Brian Harper. But he at least called a good game.
I understand that Gardy got booted for arguing balls and strikes, but I noticed something else. The batter was well out of the box when he got hit–foot planted basically behind home plate. So even if the ball/strike call was wrong, doesn’t the pitcher have the right to throw the ball over the plate and the batter would be out anyway? Was nice to see the boys fired up though…
Ling: I don’t understand. The pitch was in the left-handed hitter’s batters box. The bat was angled back as far as Span could go and everything he was doing when he was hit was related to trying to get out of the way of a pitch thrown right at him. It was one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen. Fortunately, Span kept his head and worked out a walk anyway.
“Gardenhire is an embarrassment to the Minnesota Twins. He is grossly overweight and knows nothing about managing a baseball team except how to get thrown out of a game. They say he then goes into the clubhouse to drink beer and eat pizza, which may be the real reason he tries to get thrown out. Getting thrown out of less games might help keep his weight problem from ballooning any further and present a better image to the sports world.”
SCOTTY:
You are an idiot. Year in and year out Gardy manages to take a mediocre lineup and make them into contenders. While year in and year out managers like Guillen fail after buying their way to an outstanding lineup (on paper at least). It seems to me that you know nothing about baseball yourself. You are probably sitting behind your computer pushing 4 bills yourself! YOU are an embarrasment!
scooter: I wouldn’t say the Boston series was a disaster on the same scale as the Sox or Yanks series.
The Twins held their own in the first two games at Fenway. The only laugher was the third one.
“The Tigers made themselves better by adding Farnsworth and the Yankees made themselves better by adding Pudge”
Yep.
His time was up.
He was on his last year of his contract, the pitching staff was fed up with him, and most importantly, he was becoming a clubhouse cancer.
Don’t forget that he and Dmitri (wife-beating drunk) Young lobbied to get Trammel and Gibson fired back in ‘05 (both are doing just fine with the Cubs and Diamondbacks, BTW).
He’s a first ballot HOFer for sure, but his value to Detroit was pretty much at an end.
cmathewson: I found a video clip and yeah, he was pretty much plugged in the batter’s box and his trying to get out of the way was what made him move behind the plate. First glance last night I thought his squaring around was what got him in the way.
Just a few comments: I was not a fan of Gardy to begin with, and still disagree often, but I think he is a solid manager and must be given credit. As for Liriano, I love Liriano but agree that if the deal had been right then it might have been smart to deal him at his highest level of interest. But that would have required getting someone like Ian Stewart IMO. Also, I happen to like Dunn’s 31 homers and his contest threat. I am not sure that he is a good fit for the Twins but is hardly a bum. I wish that the Twins would use their youngsters in positions where they have abundance (pitching) to fill in areas where they are lacking (position players). But I am more understandiing of this years inactivity than any other year in the recent past. But I do not agree with the notion that they will automatically have this opportunity to compete every year. On paper yes but injuries and any other issue could come up. Therefore, it makes since to treat each time that you are in a pennant chase as something special. Do not always play for the next opportunity but go for the one that is presently presented.
scotty says:
August 1st, 2008 at 8:20 am
Gardenhire is an embarrassment to the Minnesota Twins. He is grossly overweight and knows nothing about managing a baseball team except how to get thrown out of a game. They say he then goes into the clubhouse to drink beer and eat pizza, which may be the real reason he tries to get thrown out. Getting thrown out of less games might help keep his weight problem from ballooning any further and present a better image to the sports world.
Tongue-in-cheek= very funny
serious comment=you are insane
