Can you take 54 more days of this?
Posted on August 6th, 2008 – 11:34 AMBy Joe Christensen
By my count, that’s how many days remain in the regular season, which ends Sept. 28, with the Twins hosting Kansas City at the Metrodome.
Anyone following the AL Central is probably trying to unscramble the brain today after Tuesday night’s developments in Chicago and Seattle.
What a convergence of forces: Jim Caple publishes this piece for ESPN.com, the Twins finally try Joe Nathan for a five-out save, only to have it backfire, and the Tigers are left to cope after closer du jour Joel Zumaya blows a two-run lead in the 14th.
Caple makes some great points, calling the closer role “The most overrated position in sports.” But it’s almost like the baseball gods were there to remind everyone (in the AL Central, at least) how devastating last-inning losses can be.
(*) Former Twins GM Terry Ryan recently described the intricacies of the trade deadline to our former colleague Steve Aschburner in an interesting piece for SI.com. I haven’t seen Terry much this season, and I miss him. He was at the Metrodome last week, and several of us flocked to his table in the media dining room.
Aschburner’s piece is in Ryan’s own words, and I can just hear him saying this:
It sounds like hot air, but you really do want both sides to feel good about a trade. You don’t want to burn the other team, however, you might do that. You want to have some integrity. The relationships of the general managers is, I won’t say close across the board but it is ‘gentlemanly.’ You want to be able to come back to that guy, pick up the phone again next week or next month.
I’ve written about many of Ryan’s deals now that it’s easy to look back and see how one-sided they were for the Twins (Eric Milton-to-Philly, A.J.-to-San Francisco, Chuck Knoblauch-to-New York, Bobby Kielty-to-Toronto, etc.) and never once did he gloat. And never once did you sense his ego had been damaged if you questioned him over his lack of impact trade-deadline deals late in his tenure.
(*) Twins pitching prospect Brian Duensing is blogging about his experience with the U.S. Olympic baseball team. Duensing struck me as another genuine person during spring training. He was college teammates with Joba Chamberlain and Alex Gordon at Nebraska.
Duensing’s not a bad lefthanded pitcher, either. He probably is seventh on the current Twins’ starting pitcher depth chart behind the Current 5 and Boof. In other words, Duensing could be a factor in September if this staff is hit by injuries, etc. I look forward to reading about his experiences from Beijing.
(*) The Twins will try to pick up the pieces today, with Nick Blackburn (8-6, 3.56 ERA) pitching opposite Seattle lefty Jarrod Washburn (5-10, 4.77). That one starts at 3:40 p.m. Then, at 7:11, Justin Verlander (8-11, 4.49) takes the mound for Detroit against Chicago’s John Danks (8-4, 3.31).
(*) Finally, birthday wishes today to Vicki Olson, the greatest mother on Earth.
72 Responses to "Can you take 54 more days of this?"
I read that Caple piece yesterday. He makes some great points. For example, in Monday’s game, if you put Nathan in 7th inning instead of Bass, you might get out ahead by 1, instead of down 5. However, then you have the issue of who closes the 9th inning if it still a 1 run game. I think if your Bullpen is solid, the back end guy just makes them look better. If the bullpen is struggling, like the Twins are now, then you look foolish for not using him. It’s a tough spot.
too bad we don’t have the 3 closers like the nasty boys the Reds had in 90. Then you can bring 1 in the 7th, 8th, and 9th if needed
Shawn we had two closers until Neshek got hurt he’s the guy we really miss now. I liked that TR article and i always thought he did an exceptional job considering the budget limits he had to deal with.
Rotoblinders, great follow up to Caple’s piece. I am very intrigued at putting your best pitcher in as soon as they are needed. For example, these starters through during the week before they start. Why would one inning kill them? Liraino instead of what we had in the bullpen for an innning would have been awfully interesting.
Like I posted yesterday, I would just like to see the innings at least distributed a little more evenly among the relievers, if not putting more of the load on Nathan since at this point he looks far and away the most capable guy. Bass has pitched almost 20 more innings than Nathan this year. BRIAN BASS!! Mr. 5+ era and 1.55 WHIP. Shouldn’t be afraid to use Nathan in tight situations and worry about later innings when you get there…. alls I’m sayin.
BC Like I said a while back. With all these young starters when will the bullpen become worn out. Hmmmm….
We should see if Colorado would give us a MR for Livan when the time arrives
jimmy you and i both were skeptical about this season because we had such a young group of starters. My guess is the reason the Twins didn’t make any trades this year is because they don’t think they can contend.
If I managed to make it through 2005 and 2007 with sanity intact I think I’ll manage 2008 just fine. 
I assume by MR you mean a bag of “Mesquite Ruffles” that’s all your going to get from Senor’ “lit up like a Roman Candle”
“Mesquite Ruffles” Fire you kill me.
don’t know ‘em they are quite tasty!! 
umm meant to say “don’t knock ‘em they are quite tasty!!”
I need more coffee….. zzzzzzzzzzzz
Can someone who’s smarter then me, which is the majority of you, explain to me why the Twins road era is so much higher then there home era. It’s not like the dome is a pitchers park. Are these guys egos so fragile that they need to be cheered in order to succeed. Maybe there playing with the AC again.
I’m wondering if the road thing is something to do with Gardy’s faith in guys like Boof and Bass.
At home, Gardy knows that no matter what happens in a close game his guys will always get the last at bats.
But in close games on the road, if he goes to Guerrier or Nathan too early then he’s got nobody if the game goes long and he has to get the save.
So that would lead to trying to avoid using Guerrier or Nathan too early in close games (6/7th inning) and instead hoping to get a few outs from his other guys.
The Twins bullpen is in sad shape. Do something, Smith!!
Twins can’t handle decent hitting teams on the road check out ERAs at:
A’s - 6.12
Boston- 9.38
Clev - 5.12
Texas - 7.42
W Sox - 7.54
Det - 6.27
Yanks - 7.88
Dave: What do you want Smith to do? He can either 1) claim a has-been off the waiver wire, 2) con Colorado into giving us someone of value for Livan, or 3) pull up a pitcher from the minor league.
Realistically, his only option is #3 and I am not sure there is someone ready. Maybe Graves who has experience but I don’t know how is season has gone.
T-
Agreed…season’s that don’t end well aren’t great, but we (fans) still seem to come back. I would much rather watch our Twins teams compete every year and maybe make the playoffs than watch a KC or Texas team struggle every year and be lucky to have an above .500 season every couple of years. We’ve had a better than expected year and it’s not over yet. Even if the playoffs are missed this year, can you imagine the experience gained by our young pitchers by being involved in a competative second half? I think that by virtue of the Twins system (and self-imposed limitations), we as fans are in a much better position than most other ballclubs fans.
One of the biggest questions of late has been “what can we expect from our young staff? most of whom have never put this many innings on their arms before.” This year can only help for next, and so on down the road. I hate always waiting for next year (the most common MN sports theme), but it’s almost always fun to watch.
Mesquite Ruffles have ridges. Just ate some Lays KC masterpiece chipper doos
The Twins’ current struggles just underline how important a good bullpen is. The big constant in the Twins division winning teams was solid bullpens. This year won’t be the Twins’ year. They’ll need to get Neshek back healthy and hope they haven’t destroyed Guerrier’s arm next year.
Does not look good today, as Washburn has typically done very well against our (past) Twins and Blackburn is below average against the Sailors.
Our Twins have made a valiant job but am afraid that being good at home is not enough to win this division or even think about being in the ALCS or WS.
Arms in Rochester: not much unless you play the experience factor (Graves). Maybe Korecky or Humber/Mulvey?
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/external/brandedstats/t534.html?cid=534&t=t_ibp
“Our Twins have made a valiant job but am afraid that being good at home is not enough to win this division or even think about being in the ALCS or WS.”
If the Twins don’t win the central I feel we are going to see the Angel’s vs the Dodger’s in the WS
jimmy
Even if the Twins win the Central the Angels are most likely the AL pennant winners.
SweetOne I know just trying to be possitive.
No Yankees and no Redsox in the WS oh what will I ever do.
If the Twins don’t make the postseason, I’m rooting for the Rays all the way. That’d be such a great story (almost like last year’s Rockies except the Rays have been good all year)
Seeing both Boston and New York get one-upped by Tampa Bay would be a thing of beauty.
Twins/Rays in the ALCS? Root for the AL Central and it could happen.
It just kills me when I hear people say we are wearing Guerrier down and his arm is going to fall off. Give me a break! The guy threw five pitches last night, 19 pitches on Monday and 12 pitches on Sunday. He had Saturday off, but he did throw nine pitches on Friday. Wow, that’s some tough duty! If Buscher has to fire five balls across the infield every game, is his arm going to fall off? I could see if he was throwing 30 pitches a night, but come on, let’s be realistic.
Twins/Rays in the ALCS?
The only way that this may happen is if they are the wild card and beat the Angels.
Assuming that the Angels will have the highest ranking, they will play the wild card. Assuming that the wildcard will come from the East, the Twins if they make it will play the AL East champion in the ALDS.
ES16 Reyes is going to throw his arm off. Hopefully he will be ok for next year
Been watching baseball for 40 years ….
This young Twins has been a bunch of overachievers to this point, with Gardy keeping things together with peanut butter. How they ever got to 13 games over .500 four times now is mind boggling based on having such a young, inexperienced team. They’re having a lot of fun and have impressed some people, but I don’t think the boys are quite ready for prime time. The mid-reliever corps is Swiss cheese, and they couldn’t win a road game in the playoffs to save their life. They’re not quite there yet — need some additional pieces added — but they’re going in the right direction. Have fun watching, but don’t get your hopes up. They’re still a ways off.
It sucks that no other team has bullpen problems. oh wait.
T: I will also be rooting for the Rays if the Twins don’t make the postseason.
ES16: It is all about conditioning. Relief pitchers are generally conditioned to pitch 3-4 times/week. Also SP have to pace themselves so they throw at 70-80% so that they can go 6-7 innings. Whereas Relievers (especially short relievers) throw as hard as they can since they know they are only going to be out there for 1-2 innings.
Everyday players actually throw the ball more during the pre-inning warmups than they will during the game.
Sweet One,
That is totally false. In fact, Bert was all over Bonser one game, because he’s been throwing harder as a reliever. He said it showed he wasn’t going 100 percent as a starter and he should have been. As a starter, you go as hard as you can for as long as you can. You don’t pace yourself.
Maybe that was Livans problem he was only throwing at 70-80% which is like 20-30% for every other pitcher.
What is slower in any order
Wakefield Fastballl
Wakefield Knuckleball
Livan Fastball
Livan Eephus Pitch
ES16,
“In fact, Bert was all over Bonser one game, because he’s been throwing harder as a reliever. He said it showed he wasn’t going 100 percent as a starter and he should have been.”
You will have to ask Bert, but I think he was speaking of Boof’s MAXIMUM velocity.
As a starter, you dial up to max. when necessary, but you throw many pitches slower than max.
Relievers throw max velocity pitches more frequently, but that maximum velocity should have been the same for Boof as a starter, as it is for Boof now.
ES16,
Bert is full of it sometimes. Everybody knows that a start doesn’t go 100% all the time. Sometimes he will rare back a give it his all, Santana would do this when he absolutely needed a strikeout as you would see the velocity hit 96-97 instead of his normal 92-94.
The differences between SP, LR/MR, SR in how the approach the game is similar to someone running the 100yd, 400yd/1M, Marathon.
Would be nice to get something for Livan, the Twins organization have a good track record for player developement. Wonder if having LaTroy Hawkins would have helped up thes last 2 games. Nobody will ever know.
Stating the obvious: I think the front office needs to invest in a mid reliever.
Not so obvious - Neshek is finished. We don’t need to even think about him coming back to form. The reason he was effective was that he threw the ball so freaky. There’s no way a guy can throw like that again if he is coming off of Tommy John surgery.
jimmy here’s my order
Wakefield Fastballl
Wakefield Knuckleball
My 105 year old grandma on the way to the john.
Livan Fastball
Livan Eephus Pitch
“My 105 year old grandma on the way to the john.”
LOL.
BC of ND says:
August 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
jimmy here’s my order
Wakefield Fastballl
Wakefield Knuckleball
My 105 year old grandma on the way to the john.
Livan Fastball
Livan Eephus Pitch
Where would a Terry Mullholland pitch rank in that list
honnat,
Neshek did not have TJ surgery. He will start tossing again this month in Florida (he already is there)
I kind of wonder what was the slowest pitch ever thrown in the modern era of baseball
Neshek didn’t have Tommy John
Neshek is a gimmick pitcher and it is just a matter of time till everyone gets a good read and figures the Tin Man out
Of course you don’t throw every pitch as hard as you can. You have to change speeds to be an effective pitcher. The point Bert was trying to make is that Bonser had obviously been pacing himself, which you don’t do. You can’t give a 70 percent effort and be an effective starter.
“I kind of wonder what was the slowest pitch ever thrown in the modern era of baseball”
Didn’t Johan have one slip out of his hand and land like 3 feet in front of the plate and the guy swung at it anyway. I think it was last year but maybe it was another pitcher.
Charlie Hough and Phil Niekro used to throw in the 40s at the twilight of their careers. I think that’s about the slowest.
the lineup today:
Span RF
Punto 2B
Redmond C
Morneau 1B
Kubel LF
Ruiz DH
Harris 3B
Everett SS
Gomez CF
“Arms in Rochester: not much unless you play the experience factor (Graves). Maybe Korecky or Humber/Mulvey?”
FREE RICKY BARRETT and his 29% K/PA rate.
thry, with the day off tomorrow Mauer should be in today.
But hey, you’re probably right about Ruiz. After all, if he would’ve PH for Lamb in the 4th inning on Monday the Twins would’ve won for sure!
Boy Mauer has STUNK UP THE PLACE the past 2 days - what is the deal with him?
Hitting and fielding - Mauer is way off on this trip - WIUWT??
I’m going to go ahead and guess that ISN’T SoCal.
Rickey Barrett’s 1.21 WHIP is 2nd on the AAA team behind….Liriano… Wouldn’t be surprised to hear his name more….But Korecky, Humber, and anybody else than can help us win some more games should all be considered coming up and we can send down Bass. Another lefty in the pen couldn’t hurt.
Gardenhire should be fired for not having his team ready to play Seattle. The Twins, after winning 3 of 4 against the WSOX, took the Mariners for granted. It is the manager’s responsibility to have his team at its best at all times. Gardenhire was pretty much useless as a manager the past two days.
Willie should be fired.
This year’s team (so far) has shown that it CANNOT handle success - every time they finish a great series or (in this case) take over first place, they LOSE FOCUS and look AWFUL!! 80% of it is coaching and motivation.
The slowest you can throw a ball from the pitchers mound to home plate, without it bouncing first, is about 45mph.
Crazy Talk? What about Mariano Gomez from some middle inning relief? Desperate…..
No…54 more days of somewhere inserting Punto into the line-up.
1-4
1-5
1-6
love the grit
He better not step foot on the new stadium grass unless his number is retired in the next year or so
enough
Gardenhire is a very poor and ineffective manager for the Twins. He pretty much does nothing and is only hanging around till he can get his kid, who is currently in the minor leagues, to play second base for the Twins. Gardenhire acts like an immature kid by throwing tantrums and kicking his hat up in the air when he argues with the umpires. He sets a very bad example for all the young kids who are at the game or watching on t.v. His behavior is destructive to the community and is characteristic of an individual who is in need of mental health care. For his own good, lets hope the Twins organization gets him some treatment before his behavior becomes more violent and destructive to others.
Ron Gardenhire’s behavior may result from his obiesity. He appears to always be uncomfortable and uneasy. The guy needs to relax and enjoy the game of baseball rather than becoming frustrated and agitated all the time. If he reduces his weight, he may become more relaxed and at ease. I am not sure that he has a drinking problem, but his behavior and appearance may be indicitive of it. Lets all wish Mr. Gardenhire the best for his efforts regardless.
When are the Twins going to replace Gardenhire with a new manager? We have been hearing rumors for the past three weeks. The Cliburn brothers at Rochester are the premier choice to take over the helm for the inconsistent Twins.
Go Verlander. Let’s get back in 1st.
It’s hard to believe that people around here continue to think of the Knoblauch deal as some major coup for the Twins. They got Christian Guzman, Eric Milton, and “Buck” Buchanan in return for a player that helped his team win three straight rings. Guzman and Milton each had one good, but hardly great, year and Buchanan was an absolute bust. Joe even contradicts himself once more in this entry in that he speaks of Milton as though he was a HOF’er as far as acquiring him in the Knoblauch deal, but then turns right around and diminishes his value by suggesting that, somehow, acquiring NICK PUNTO and CARLOS ‘FRIGGIN SILVA for him in the deal with the Phillies was a steal on the part of the Twins! Unbelievable.
As far as Ryan’s comments, only he would insist on the other team getting equal value in return. So, if the Cardinals offered him Albert Pujols for, say, Brian Bass he would turn down the deal because he doesn’t want to “burn” the other team? That might actually explain a few things.
Having been called out by LEN3 earlier today, Herb the Schizo apparently has taken his act somewhere new.
Like I keep saying, can we PLEASE have a registration system here? That would kill the clones and stop the imposters (both of which look to be running rampant here)
somehow, acquiring NICK PUNTO and CARLOS ‘FRIGGIN SILVA
Punto was part of the spark that pushed the Twins in 2006, and Silva had about as many good years as Milton (what has Milton done since?)
Buchanan became Bartlett helped become Young/Harris. Buchanan’s done nothing since Twins dealt him. Bartlett and Harris appear to be equal at worst (I’d give Harris the edge right now at least with the stick)
Part of assessing a trade is not only the immediate result by the long term results.
JoeC,
How about knee-capping the herb, henry, jack, retardo team (of one?) as has been done by LaVelle and Howard?
Their (his/her?) only topic is innuendo-laced character attacks on Gardy and it has gone beyond annoying.
Please drive a metaphorical stake through its(?) heart.
Our only alternative is to avoid this site and go where we won’t be exposed to that nonsense.
Who is the odd man out when Cuddyer returns? Everett or Ruiz? I’d add Bass to the list, but I can’t see the Twins dropping a pitcher w/o adding a new one to the roster.
