Sorting through this waiver madness
Posted on August 15th, 2008 – 11:34 AMBy Joe Christensen
After 3 1/2 years of covering the Twins with La Velle, I felt like I had stepped into “The Twilight Zone” on Thursday.
It started at about 9:45 a.m., when Buster Olney was on ESPN’s “First Take” talking about the waiver claims that had been submitted for Seattle’s Raul Ibanez and Jarrod Washburn. Olney, who works tirelessly and is incredibly well-connected, said the Twins had won the claim on one of the players, but he wasn’t sure which.
You had to figure it was Ibanez, right? Michael Cuddyer might be lost for the season. Ibanez could play right field, Denard Span could move to center, and Carlos Gomez could give the Twins speed off the bench. The Twins’ obvious need is setup relief, but an Ibanez move would have made them more potent offensively, perhaps lessening the pressure on the bullpen to protect tight leads.
The Rays, who just lost Carl Crawford and Evan Longoria to injury, were desperate to land Ibanez, but the Twins were ahead of them on the waiver list. Turns out, the Tigers were the team that won the claim on Ibanez. That tells you how popular he was. Even the Tigers, who are practically dead (despite all you’ve read on this blog), figured he was a good investment, at $1.4 million over the season’s final six weeks.
Washburn, meanwhile, is owed $13 million through the end of 2009. Going after him was such a non-Twins move, that I didn’t even give it serious thought. I began working the phones, and as soon I learned the Twins had not won the claim for Ibanez, I posted something on this blog.
But the Washburn thing wouldn’t die. At about 4:20 p.m., I got a tip from someone who had spoken to another GM that the Twins were indeed the team working on Washburn. Then, Jon Heyman posted that news at SI.com.
I was still dubious. I had an off-day story to write on Francisco Liriano, but I had to get to the bottom of this, even if the 48-hour waiver period had expired on Ibanez and Washburn, meaning neither player was going anywhere.
So I made more calls, and finally confirmed it: The Twins were dead serious about Washburn. That’s how desperate they’ve become to address their bullpen. They were willing to take on Washburn’s contract and move a starting pitcher into a relief role.
The Twins have become increasingly dismayed about the quality of relievers falling to them on the waiver wire. I know it’s clear they passed on Chad Bradford, and I know what the numbers say — that he would be a clear upgrade over Brian Bass — but the Twins had scouts see Bradford before Tampa Bay got him and decided he wasn’t the right guy. Time will tell if that was wise thinking.
Bradford has pitched three scoreless innings for the Rays, but he’s also given up four hits and allowed three walks. I assumed the Twins turned their back on Bradford because he is owed $3.5 million next year. The Twins never have paid that much for middle relief. But the more La Velle and I talk to people, the more we realize money isn’t the issue right now. Washburn is proof.
But wait, there’s more…
OK, so I was still coming to grips with the Twins’ interest in Washburn, a lefty who is 5-12 with a 4.58 ERA and just turned 34 this week. He has a no-trade clause, but he’s also a Wisconsin guy, so the Twins would be a good regional fit. But then I’m wondering: Why the heck wouldn’t the Mariners just let the Twins have him?
The minute the Twins made the claim, they could have been stuck with the contract. That’s about $2.55 million for the rest of this year and another $10.35 million for next year.
Were the Twins just doing this to block the White Sox from getting Washburn? No, I was told. A team doesn’t put in a claim for a player with Washburn’s contract unless they are willing to get stuck with it.
But that wasn’t enough for the Mariners. They are convinced Washburn has value on the trade market. The Yankees were willing to take the contract off their hands in late July, but the deal fell through because the Mariners wanted talent in return.
I received indications that the Twins offered Boof Bonser. Makes sense, as he is out of minor-league options, and the Twins would need to clear a spot for Washburn. As I wrote recently, Bonser is only 26, and it makes sense for a team that is way out of the race to let Bonser make 10 starts down the stretch.
Bonser isn’t even eligible for arbitration, so the Mariners could have found a pitcher for their 2009 rotation who will make less than $500,000 next year.
Oh no. I have indications the Mariners insisted on getting one of the Twins’ current starting pitchers. Yeah, like Nick Blackburn or Kevin Slowey. That, friends, is sheer lunacy.
Throughout baseball, there is a growing frustration with the Mariners. Teams that deal with them aren’t really sure who’s in charge. Interim GM Lee Pelekoudas is a good baseball man, but it’s not always his say. Apparently, there is great fear in the ownership ranks about the losses mounting and any appearance that the M’s are starting a fire sale.
Teams have tried telling the Mariners that Washburn’s value isn’t exactly on the rise. He’s the type of player who gets moved in July or August, only because other teams are desperate. Come November, the Yankees, Twins and White Sox will have a whole slew of choices on the free agent market.
Maybe the Mariners think they can get someone at least as good as Bonser if they wait until the winter to trade Washburn. No chance.
I can’t sit here and say getting Washburn would have been a good move for the Twins. But I can assure you the Mariners made a bad choice, not unloading him when they could.
284 Responses to "Sorting through this waiver madness"
I wonder, will the Mariners outrageous trade demands come back to bite them in the ass later? Will other GM’s be less inclined to do any business with the Mariners?
You’ve got to be kidding me! says:
August 15th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I wonder, will the Mariners outrageous trade demands come back to bite them in the ass later? Will other GM’s be less inclined to do any business with the Mariners?
YES!
Sounds like Mickey Mouse & Co are running the Mariners.
well, is it any surprise? The money they gave to Beltre, Sexson, Washburn, Silva and more recently Jhojima is crazy. They gave up Adam Jones, George Sherrill and two others for a pitcher who gets hurt every year. I know there is a new GM, but clearly the people above that are just not smart.
But then again, the thought of the Twins having any real interest in Washburn is more than a little alarming.
I don’t get why they want this guy so badly. He pitches in a pitchers’ park and has an ERA over 4.5. Isn’t the risk of Humber / Duensing / Mulvey / Swarzak - with no commitment to millions next year, a better risk?
I’m truly baffled by this.
As for the Mariners, other than trading King Felix for nothing, could they make more boneheaded moves than they already have in the last 8 months?
[…] the Minneapolis Star-Tribune: I received indications that the Twins offered Boof Bonser. Makes sense, as he is out of […]
If they tie up millions in this guy next year, meaning they can’t afford to go after a SS / 3B / DH or a couple of relievers, then I’ll be sorely disappointed. This guy is not the difference between winning the WS and not.
Can someone answer this question–forget Boof (we know what we have in him)–what has Brian Bass done to establish a spot on this roster?
Seriously, we have two pitchers in our bullpen that either A) Have proven they can’t get it done or B) Haven’t proven anything; both will be called up on to eat up innings in games down the stretch that could prove to be vital (in other words, there won’t always be a 5 or 6 run spread available to bring in Boof or Bass).
Having said that, I don’t care who they bring in…they have to bring someone in, right? Bobby Korecky should already be on a plane to Minnesota–the Twins need to find out if he’s a potential answer and quick, because the bottom line is, if we end up rolling with Boof and Bass, we’ll be skating on very thin ice.
And that’s not even to mention the other bullpen question marks: Guerrier, Breslow, and Crain.
Someone is going to have to prove that they belong on our bullpen’s A-squad, and fast…I don’t think Bass should be given that opportunity. Given Boof is out of options, he stays. But you can’t have them both, in my opinion.
the interim gm probably has his marching orders and his hands are tied until a new real gm is hired.
keeping beltre makes sense he is still a good player (without getting equal value) but the other 2 are really questionable.
i read on a mariners blog that they call silva a “pile of buffalo dung”.
must be one of their most popular players.
Likening the Seattle front office to Mickey Mouse & Co. is an insult to cartoon mice everywhere.
Everyone here in Seattle is just hoping Oklahoma City wants a “major league” baseball team.
>>Sounds like Mickey Mouse & Co are running the Mariners.<<
Are you kidding? Mickey Mouse is way smarter than the bunch we have out here in Seattle. Goofy would be an improvement.
I seem to remember that Bass is somehow out of options. Don’t know why that would be true and am too lazy to research. IF it is true, it must be why the Twins won’t send him down. I am not sure who would take Brian Bass if we were to let him go but clearly he is the weakest of the weak links in the bullpen. Something has to give.
Gardenhire does plenty to unsettle the infield. He is constantly moving players from one position to another. He doesn’t give them time to settle in and become accustomed to a regular position, which really has a negative impact on their overall performance. I think he in intentionally mish mashing them in order to try to save second base for his kid, who is in the minors in the Twins organization. He is scrambling the infield lineup whenever he can. The organization wants top prospect Luke Hughes to play third base rather than second base, where he is better. Gardenhire should retire for the betterment of the team, but he will hand on until he gets his kid, who is actually a sub-par player into the Twins second base slot on the Twins major league team.
There you have it, Mariners are run by morons.
Blackburn for Washburn? *pfft* If the Twins could afford to deal Blackburn they wouldn’t need Washburn.
And the Tigers put a claim on Ibanez? Seriously? You’d think they’d be a little more eager to take care of their pitching woes vs. trying to get more hitting.
Thanks for providing some insight JoeC.
I prefer to think Bill Smith was pretty sure Seattle wouldn’t just dump Washburn on the Twins, and felt safe in making the claim.
Otherwise, if the Twins really were interested in Washburn, tying up $10M NEXT year when they could possibly use that money wisely, I think my head will explode.
Hey don’t rip the mariners they know when to get rid of marginal players and when to hold them.
Kay says:
August 15th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Sounds like Mickey Mouse & Co are running the Mariners.
Yes, and it sounds like the Seven Dwarves are running the Twins. There had to be some comical negotiations between those teams.
I have zero confidence left in this front office. We pass on a quality right-handed reliever like Bradford, but want worthless lefty like Embree, and even worse Washburn in the rotation for $13 million next season! I’d rank our front office just above the M’s for worst in baseball.
Oh, and according to LaVelle, Korecky hasn’t been called up because he needs to work on his changeup. Nevermind that Brian Bass and his 5.01 ERA throws a changeup just 5% of the time, according to Aaron Gleeman.
Our front office flat out sucks.
Kay says:
August 15th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Sounds like Mickey Mouse & Co are running the Mariners.
Yes, and it sounds like the Seven Dwarves are running the Twins. There had to be some comical negotiations between those teams.
I have zero confidence left in this front office. We pass on a quality right-handed reliever like Bradford, but want worthless lefty like Embree, and even worse Washburn in the rotation for $13 million next season! I’d rank our front office just above the M’s for worst in baseball.
Oh, and according to LaVelle, Korecky hasn’t been called up because he needs to work on his changeup. Nevermind that Brian Bass and his 5.01 ERA throws a changeup just 5% of the time, according to Aaron Gleeman.
Our front office flat out sucks.
I don’t understand the FO at all - Washburn - are you kidding? $10.35 million next year?? That’s more than Joe Mauer’s avg salary per year (wasn’t he 40 million for 4 years). I’ve been among those saying make a move - but don’t just make one to make one - especially as costly as this.
The Twins team needs a good manager, not Gardenhire. He is always confused about who plays where in the field. Maybe he is not smart enough to figure things out, but he could ask the other coaches to help him keep the lineup with the best player playing regularly in order to help them win more games.
Ibanez will be a Free Agent after this season. The real value to the Tigers in getting Ibanez is letting him sign elsewhere and picking up two high draft picks next year.
That’s a reasonable return for $1.4M in salary owed Ibanez. And that’s why Seattle wants a lot in return. You’d have to offer them more than what they can expect to get if Ibanez leaves over the winter.
Bass is also out of options, but do we really lose anything if someone decideds to take a flier on him? Bring someone, ANYONE up from AAA and see if Bass passes through waivers. If we lose him, we lose him…who cares.
If Bradford was such a “quality” pitcher, why didn’t anyone want him before the July 31 deadline and had to be waived instead?
If you don’t think Washburn would’ve helped, then I don’t think LaTroy or Bradford when have been any better of a decision.
You wanted proof they’re trying. Here you go. They tried.
I’m still amazed the Tigers tried for Ibanez. Though from the sounds of things the Mariners won’t settle for just a claim.
Idiots.
It’s pretty nice that we can be a game out of first place in the middle of August with the Seven Dwarfs running the team. Apparently our manager sucks too, we must just have the most talent in the world to be able to overcome both of those obstacles.
You’d think this was the comments section for the Royals.
spending 10m on washburn next yr., while he could have a good yr is ?able, starting pitching doesn’t seem like our need. i’d like to see them use that money and make a serious run at orlando hudson to play 2b and move casilla to ss. give 3b to somebody who earns it not sure who that will be. if gardy has his way it’ll be his little buddy.
I get a big kick out of you sports writers being fed b.s. by the Twins organization about the team trying to obtain various players. It is the same rouse every time and every year. The fans know that the organiztion is not going to obtain anybody who is any good or who could help the team. The organization is simply using the sports writers to generate interest in the team. But keep writing your b.s. stories; it is kind of humorous.
Regarding Ibanez, don’t discount a Tiger blocking strategy effectively prevented the Twins from getting him.
Apparently our manager sucks too, we must just have the most talent in the world to be able to overcome both of those obstacles.
I’ve said it before, and yeah…I’ll say it again.
The Twins have won 4 of the last 6 division titles despite the best efforts of the ownership, front office, manager, coaching staff, minor league system, and roughly 90% of the players to pass through the organization in that time.
T - Hawkins and Bradford aren’t owed almost $13 million for the next 2 years. What’s our budget for next year? Wouldn’t that seriously hamstring our chances at other FA? Maybe there won’t be much out there that’s realistic, but $10.35 is up for a less than mediocre pitcher - you’re gettin in Silva territory there.
But keep writing your b.s. stories; it is kind of humorous.
You know what else is humerous? You’re schizophrenic way of posting the same asinine opinion under 10 different names in the hopes that maybe it would lend it some false sense of credibility.
If you want to stop the BS on the Strib boards, look no further than your own contributions.
JayTEE that is a possibility but then again they did put Sheff on waivers as well so if he was claimed then they would have a need for him.
That’s a very good point Paul G, my thoughts were that it was at least good to see the team willing to stretch out and try to take a risk.
t: take a nerve pill some of these guys should just be ignored!
I’m a big Mariner fan (I often wonder why), and I cannot believe the Twins even put a claim on Washburn. Washburn has almost no value, and isn’t worth 1/4 of what we’re paying him. I am, however, not at all surprised that the M’s asked for the moon. The people running the M’s clearly have NO IDEA how to evaluate baseball players. They’re clearly trying to win (they chose to keep paying Washburn, they gave $48 million to Carlos Silva, they took on salary in the Adam Jones trade) but literally every decision they make is perhaps the worst one imaginable given the circumstances.
Thank you Paul. T is just unable to accept that it’s possible to be a Twins fan and not have an opinion other than his.
It keeps coming up that the Twins are going to blow this thing down the stretch b/c they have so many games on the road. Well everybody knows how bad they are on the road, but they play 29 out of their remaining 42 games against teams with losing records. By comparison, the white sox only play 21 of 42 against teams with a sub .500 record and Boston only plays 10 out of their remaining 40 against teams with losing records. That bodes well for the prospect of both the red sox AND the Yankees missing the playoffs, and that would be awesome.
JD,
EXACTLY! The Twins win in spite of their inept front office. Name anything they did in the offseason to help this team. Trade Santana? Sign Everett? Monroe, Lamb, Hernandez? Am I missing anything here?
I feel like we’ve had this conversation for more than a month now about Bass and Bonser, They are the same pitcher to me, except for that Bonser had a good stretch at the end of 2006. Can’t they put both of these players on the waiver wire and see if someone bites? It seems to me that they can rescind placing them on waivers…
I’m confused by the whole process, but I do know that the ‘pen is shaky. Nathan is probably the best closer in the game, but he’s meaningless if the middle relief can’t bridge the gap. Breslow is fine for an inning but no more, Crain is questionably reliable, and Reyes can get a guy or two out.
Guerrier has been great for the last two years, and I really hope he can right himself with a few days off, but I wonder if he’s hit the reliever wall that so many seem to.
Another interesting angle to this story is that apparently the Twins FO feels one of the starters is capable and has the stuff to be a bridge to Nathan.
I don’t know. It seems unlikely to me that you could get a guy who has been starting for the season to get his routine down in time to be of value for the stretch run. That is what we’ve been told is the problem with Bonser. He isn’t used to getting ready to pitch one inning two or three days in a row.
I also think that if you look at what a classic 8th inning set-up man looks like none of our starters, save Liriano, look like that.
I really don’t understand what they’re trying to do in the FO. You finally get the rotation full and set then you want to screw it up?
The inexperience of Smith, coupled with the conservativism of his advisor and predecessor really screwed this up when Neshek went down and wasn’t replaced earlier. That need did not just appear two weeks ago.
There were guys who were traded before the deadline that could have easily slipped into the eight inning role…Raush(sp.) went early to the D-backs and Arthur Rhodes was traded. Eddie G in Texas might have also been ok for the rest of the year.
I don’t understand why they didn’t do anything then, I don’t understand what they’re doing now. I don’t believe any of the starters would do well jumping into the bullpen at this late date short of being a long reliever.
And there is no guarantee that Neshek will be healthy or effective next season…Raush would have either covered that hole or made the bullpen stronger if Neshek is healthy.
I am confused.
Joe,
thanks for the details of the story… If the Twins are willing to put a current starter to the pen (say Perkins) for the 8th inning role, putting Boof back to the rotation (what is that 2 starts till roster expansion?) and then fill that spot with a Mulvey/Duensing/Boof from September on, would probably be as effective as having Washburn there…
thry:
I’m wondering if the Twins are concerned that after all this time in the pen that Boof wouldn’t be able to “stretch out” to a starting job at the moment. When’s the last time he pitched more than a couple of innings?
T is just unable to accept that it’s possible to be a Twins fan and not have an opinion other than his.
So wait. It’s okay for a guy like Jason, or BC, or yourself, to come in here and debate your view. But then another user is unable to respond to your opinion with a disagreement?
Excellent mentality. Do you enjoy living in your bubble?
Nice post Willie.
Is it possible the Twins would’ve put Liriano in the pen? It would limit his innings.
Another thing - people knock the front office, but these are the same people that scout the talent (read: Span, Casilla, Buscher)
Remember when the terrible front office traded AJ (a fine, but not great catcher) for Joe Nathan (most consistent closer since the trade)? Oh yeah, they also got Francisco Liriano IN THE SAME DEAL…
Hate all you want on Livan, but him staying around as long as he did gave Liriano a chance to fix himself. I can’t defend, though, Lamb still being around - with him, Bass, and Bonser on the roster, the Twins are basically a 22-man squad with 10 man pitching staff and 3-player bench that includes Randy Ruiz.
Llewdor:
Can you provide insight on what Mariners fans thought when the Silva signing was first annouced?
Here in Twins Territory I think the general feeling was something akin to shock.
I would be irate if I was a Mariners fan. They’ve buried themselves for years with bad deal and non-deals. However, they were really good just last year. Maybe by some miracle for Seattle fans, this season is just a fluke? Nah, they couldn’t be that lucky.
Wait, can someone on here who unquestioningly supports the front office explain to me why Bradford would NOT have been a good pick up? What’s wrong with a guy with a career 3.29 ERA and a 2.28 ERA this season, who would be owed less than a million this year and just $3.5 million next year? Especially for a team that’s in dire need of bullpen help, especially in the late innings. Anyone want to tackle that?
It’s done and over with now, but which starter would have gone to the pen? It wasn’t going to be Liriano or Baker, so that leaves the other three. Blackburn would have been a disaster there, as he tends to come unraveled in tight situations. Slowey doesn’t fit because he just isn’t a strikout pitcher. Perkins would work, but a third lefty? Still doesn’t solve the problem of using Gurrier too much. He’ll still get the call against righties more often than not.
It just wouldn’t have been a good plan in my opinion. I’d have never guessed Neshek was that vital down there, but apparently he is.
Here in Twins Territory I think the general feeling was something akin to shock.
That was shock in a GOOD way, just to clarify, since we wouldn’t have to deal with it anymore.
Regarding switching one of our starters into the 8th inning role, I think as thrylos mentions Perkins could fit that role and IMO he would do well at it.
Although, I would prefer our rotation is left as it is.
I still hold out hope for Bonser. I think he could be a great set up guy, but he probably needs the offseason to train accordingly for more appearances, but less innings. (think training for the 100 m vs training for the 1600m)
Because Scott, he’s not a “good fit” for the Twins, we need guys who were raised in Wisconsin on a pig farm and will make $10-11M next year…
See, it makes total sense.
**pounding head against wall**
The Bass Conundrum.
I realize that there is not much to be said for the Twins handling of Pitchers. I mean heck, someone goes under the moniker “FIRE ANDERSON” on this board.
I presume that someone with the Twins thinks Bass has some good potential, although we have not seen it as fans.
The Twins are probably wrong on Bass, just as they were wrong to keep Baker and Span. Their incompetance is shown daily, I doubt they will get out of 5th place in the division before the season ends.
Regards,
The problem is I don’t know if any of our current starters except for Baker and Liriano have “bullpen” stuff. By that I mean getting a strikeout when you need it. Is it a requirement - no. But the less the ball is put in play, the better. Plus, Perkins has done well lately in his current role. I believe that Washburn would be a downgrade. So you MIGHT improve 8th inning relief, but it would be at the expense of some quality starts IMO.
Steve,
Yep, keep going back to the well on that deal that happened in 2003. And that wasn’t Bill Smith.
And Span is a career minor leaguer that has shown nothing in five seasons until this year. And while I’m enjoying his success, it could certainly turn out to be a fluke. And I also don’t give the current FO any credit for Casilla and Buscher, since they are past finds, and they were passed over at the beginning of the year.
My take on Bradford was that he’d be one of those bullpen arms that was “better than Bass” but wouldn’t fill the actual hole in the set-up role.
LEN3 had a few musings in his blog about Bradford that were interesting. And more than one commenter thought it was related to his tendency to give up groundballs vs. being able to K up runners.
Maybe the FO thinks a Buscher/Harris left side of the infield would lead to some trouble if Bradford was serving up ground balls with runners on. (Or even Everett/Harris MIF considering Everett’s arm strength is almost non-existent)
I agree on Buscher, but going by Casilla’s ‘07 campaign…did anybody honestly think he had anything close to a future in the bigs?
I think the bullpen is going to have to gut it out as is for the next 16 days. On september 1st, bring up Korecky. THat might be all we see.
I think it is crucial for the startes to go 7 this weekend. If they could just get by without using Gurrier this weekend, he’d have essentially a week off. I know it is a remote chance
the dragon,
Both Baker and Span actually showed something to get to the majors, Bass has not. He’s a career minor leaguer with a 4.33 ERA and somehow got handed a relief spot this season and has proceeded to LEAD THE LEAGUE in relief innings. Just wishfully thinking that he’ll suddenly transform into some awesome pitcher is idiotic and short-sighted. As is thinking that the Twins NEVER miss on a player.
“I agree on Buscher, but going by Casilla’s ‘07 campaign…did anybody honestly think he had anything close to a future in the bigs?”
Casilla looked like Gomez this year thats why i thought adding someone like Ibanez or Sheff and sending him down to AAA wouldn’t have been a bad thing.
T,
Come on. You view him simply as “better than Bass?” That could be said for just about any other reliever in the majors. Bradford is a quality reliever who’s pitched almost 500 innings in the majors. And now suddenly a ground-ball pitcher is a bad thing because our infield couldn’t handle so many?
They blew it on Bradford and everyone knows it.
I’ve seen Bass blow about 4 games, if that’s what you call “potential”? But you are right, FO is all-knowing and we “couch bloggers” dont have a clue.
T - I dont know why we are concerned with situations dealing with Bradford and the ability to get ground balls (isn’t that a good thing?) Anything is better then Bass serving up hit after hit!!
Scott,
Nobody thinks that. The Twins miss on players quite often.
See: Ortiz, Ponson, Everett, Monroe, Hernandez, Boone, Nevin… and some utility player who’s name I can’t recall at the moment. That one especially seems to draw ire for some reason, just wish I could remember who he was.
MarkW: Scott asked a question, so I posted the information I had gathered from around the blogs.
When players come down the wire, feigning interest in a player is part of the game. DOn’t believe everything you read. And just like Washington DC, we use the press to manipulate our enemies.
Scott,
Trading Santana helped them. It may not show this year, but we couldn’t afford him, and the lot the we got in return outweighs two draft picks. In two-three years, if Gomez is still this raw, Guerra’s arm has exploded, Humber is still in AAA, and Mulvey’s an unsuccessful #5 starter in the NL somewhere, then I will say I was wrong.
As for Bradford, he’s got one of the lowest strikeout rates of any reliever you can think of, and you can ask any Baltimore fan and they say he doesn’t pitch well in late-inning situations at this point in his career.
In 2008, opponents are hitting .324 off Bradford in the 8th inning, and getting on base at a .370 clip.
I’m not saying I don’t think Bradford would’ve been an upgrade over Bass (God knows he would have), but keep in mind, Matt Guerrier’s numbers were great until we started handing him the 8th inning all the time too…
T,
dragon basically implied that. He’s comparing him to Baker and Span that somehow he’ll just become good.
The Mariners are morons from the top down. They are owned by a Japanese ownership group that doesn’t even watch baseball. The front office crew is in place because of that ownwership group.
In short, the leadership in Seattle is rotten to the core.
The players are under-performing idiots that get away with murder.
It really is a sad baseball team to be a part of….and sadly, I am a Seattle fan.
Dragon certainly thinks that… see his post.
T - i know, I’m just saying, why are we worried about “filling a hole” with the perfect “set-up” guy… there isn’t a Neshek out there to get, that’s what missing on Bradford is a huge mistake.
For a brief history of the M’s mismanagement, please read this:
(Doesn’t even include Bedard trade.)
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/06/mariners_foible.php
To be an M’s fine is all about enduring extreme anguish and disbelief.
For years now we’ve come to expect stupidity from our FO.
We have a temp GM and our ownership is absolutely clueless.
Enjoy your Twins. At least they’re not the M’s.
I did a bit of digging on Washburn, trying to understand what the FO might see in him.
His overall stats (5-12, 4.58, ERA 1.452, WHIP, .803 OPP OPS) are fairly mediocre, but looking closely, away from Seattle his ERA is 3.94 and the OPP OPS is .745 (OPP OPS for the season for the current Twins starters - Liriano: Blackburn: .740, Baker .691, Slowey .706, Perkins .786), which might give a glimmer of hope that if Perkins goes to the pen, Washburn could potentially be better that him in the rotation. Also, he has been averaging 6+ innings per start forever (5.9 this season) and that might be thought to provide relief to a rotation that has pitchers going for personal record innings pitched per season.
Just trying to make some sense out of it, but that $10some million bill for next year is hard to swallow
we pay taxes to Pohlad for his stadium now he is giving money to Obama?
I feel doubly cheated.
Steve, no one knows if any of the 4 are likely to be good MLB players. But, from every single site on the internet (BA, ESPN, and several other baseball sitee), I can tell you that most everyone agrees that Cleveland got more for CC than the Twins did for Johan. The Twins got zero players that anyone predicted would be impact players in the next 3 years.
yes, they had to deal him. but, to say that it was a good trade at this point is to make assumptions that just aren’t valid yet. They might be, everyone could be wrong and one or more of these guys could be good someday. But, if they had Johan right now, and replaced Livan’s starts with starts by Johan, and Span had started in center, would they have more / less / same number of wins this year. And, would you feel more / same / less confident about the post season if they make it if they had Johan right now?
When players come down the wire, feigning interest in a player is part of the game.
While it is true that some teams like to play games when the Trade Winds are blowing, the last thing a team wants to do is put a claim on a guy they aren’t fully preparred to get.
Scott: A lot of people thought Casilla was done for when he came up in 07 and looked like he was beginning to turn into a head case.
The Twins called him up when Everett went down and he showed that a second chance was all he needed.
Look at some of the growing pains Slowey went through when first called up. Wasn’t he at one point on pace to give up some kind of HR record?
Trust me, living in Seattle I can tell you people here are just as baffled and frustrated by this team’s FO as everyone else in baseball. It’s a joke. Pelekoudos isn’t the one making the decisions. It’s Howard Lincoln and his cronies and they want to keep this facade of competing in order to sell tickets to the less informed fan who just wants to watch a baseball game. They’re afraid if they start releasing everyone than even the layman will get sick of it and stop handing out their money. The M’s organization is a joke. Anyway, the only player I’d want from them is Beltre. We don’t need another LH bat, even if Raul is one of the most underrated players in the league and Washburn is not an upgrade to any part of our roster. The only thing he would be good for is sparing Perkins a large workload by letting him pitch out of the bullpen. There has to be better options than him.
Not so Original Kevin says:
August 15th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
we pay taxes to Pohlad for his stadium now he is giving money to Obama?
I feel doubly cheated.
“Ishi pohlad”
MWW-
your analysis of Span in center and Johan in the rotation probably does appear to be more wins, but if you figure Cuddy still gets hurt, were you prepared to use a Kubel/Monroe platoon in right for 3 months of the year? How many games would be lost because of sub standard D in RF?
please don’t bring politics into this discussion. seriously.
Can you provide insight on what Mariners fans thought when the Silva signing was first annouced?
Well, the general feeling was “too much money, too many years, why won’t our FO learn?”
The Silva signing made the third straight offseason that the M’s singed an aging middle-of-the-pack (or worse) starting pitcher to a long-term, expensive contract.
2005 Washburn (4yr/$37.5M)
2006 Batista(3yr/$24M)
2007 Silva (4yrs/$48M)
Sigh. I wonder how much we’re going to pay Paul Byrd next year?
T,
These things are true, but Casilla showed promise throughout the minors before having a down season last year and through part of this year. And it was really just about making some minor adjustments for him. And Slowey absolutely dominated the minor leagues all the way through. Those are the types of guys that you have patience with, who you allow to acclimate to the majors. Not guys like Brian Bass who have been just wretched in the minors and who show no potential.
There’s a reason this is his first stint in the majors at age 26.
“please don’t bring politics into this discussion. seriously.”
Normally, I would agree…but the Strib is running this as a front page story right now…I think if a Twins fan wants to comment on Pohlad’s contribution to the Obama campaign, it would be appropriate.
MarkW & Scott,
I look at Bass as something like a Rule 5 draftee. He has to stay with the club or be lost.
While the age is certainly different, and the clubs circumstances are also different, I remember a certain Rule 5 draftee who’s Rookie year stats were:
86IP 102H 62ER 11HR 54BB 64K 6.49ERA
Bass rookie stats are 65 1/3IP 80H 36ER 11HR 21BB 31K 4.96ERA
Some idiot with the Twins saw potential in the 1st player, AND it took another year of mediocracy before that player became a perenial Cy Young candidate garnering 2 said awards.
I AM NOT saying that Bass would ever measure up with Santana, rather we’re lucky that people with more baseball sense than what is shown on these blogs are in charge.
Also, While Baker had a promising 2005, in 2006 he seemed to regress enough than a mojority of bloggers on Twins sites thought he was worth less than a bag of balls. As to Span, this is his 1st year in the majors, and I remember countless posts as how he is/was a spectacularly failed pick.
Lastly, I have NEVER asserted that the Twins are PERFECT. Yet, I submit their failure rate is far less than these blog’s success rate.
Regards,
fcmlefty: not many, frankly. While D is important, it is somewhat over-rated, especially in the metrodome’s RF. Of course, I could be wrong. But, you can’t figure when you are making the trade that Cuddy gets hurt, can you?
I think the bigger drop would have been in the O, if Monroe had played much, or they could not fill RF/DH somehow.
Mike wants wins,
Why not? I think people are free to express what they want on here.
I too feel cheated.
Because this is a sports blog, and if you’ve seen the political blogs on this paper’s site, you’d know that those discussions devolve into a mess that makes our name calling and sniping here look calm and relaxed.
Aren’t I allowed to post, freely, that I don’t want that here, also, by your logic?
And, if we’re going to get into it, I’m not annoyed with Pohlad any more or less than I already am by this. It’s his money. It’s really the players’ salaries that are subsidized, not the owners’ pockets (and the fans attending the games). The owners would just pay the players less, or charge more for tickets. Either way, the owners would find a way to make money.
Thry:
What the FO sees in Washburn is a guy who’s got a 3.73 ERA over his last 10 starts, and if you exclude his one terrible start against Baltimore as a hiccup, it drops to 3.20.
He’s pitching very well lately actually, and we all know the Twins love veterans. He’s also shut down the Rays, Red Sox, and Yankees very well this year.
Over the past three seasons he’s been phenomenal against the Yankees and Rays, and decent against the Angels and White Sox.
Again, I don’t know that Washburn would’ve been an answer, and I hate his contract, but I credit Smith for at least thinking outside the box a little bit. If we add Washburn to the rotation and move Blackburn to an 8th inning role (He throws harder than any of our other starters), then we have a more solid 8th inning option, save our most worked starter’s arm a bit, and have a rotation that consists of three lefties, which could be difficult on a lot of teams.
Washburn was much better when he pitched for a playoff contender… maybe being in that setting again and being close to home would fire him up a little. God knows I’d be happy to get out of a Seattle uniform if I were him.
However, if they think they’re getting anything more than Bonser, they’re on crack and deserve to be laughed at by Twins fans, Mariners fans, and by the entire baseball world. That’s just downright outrageous. Heck, the Bonser deal would’ve been a STEAL for them. What are they thinking? Really…
and Gardy did his part to screw up Casilla as well, as he does with a lot of the younger guys (Garza, Bartlett, Kubel..) he doesn’t know how to manage them when they fail…
yet Punto gets a free pass. HA! someone had to say it.
as the person who made the original gripe about Pohlad giving money to Obama, I also feel politics should be off the table. But this isnt a political comment in isolation. Its the Twins owner, who the taxpayers have subsidized, giving money to a candidate who many of us are repulsed by. Naturallyy many here like Obama, but most sports fans are not Democrats. Poets, actors, and other fruit cakes are dems. Athletes, and other real men are more conservative
and Kevin proves my point by calling names…thanks.
and now for a discussion on religion
“and Gardy did his part to screw up Casilla as well, as he does with a lot of the younger guys (Garza, Bartlett, Kubel..) he doesn’t know how to manage them when they fail…”
Huh?????
How is Casilla screwed up? Unless you mean it was Gardy’s falt that he injured his thumb. As for the others, sometimes players fail, despite a manager’s best efforts. You can’t always blame everthing on the manager.
Oh crap how did this go from trade talks so fast and it’s the business owners who are paying the taxes guys not you.
Dragon,
A Bass/Santana comparison is a bit extreme. Bass is already 26… Johan was what, 22 back then?
I realize I also often make a big stretch when I compare Kubel’s numbers at this point in his career to Morneau’s at this point in his career… but Kubel’s a much better hitter than Bass is pitcher.
Bass can’t keep his ERA under 5.00 in a mop-up role. He doesn’t strike anyone out, he’s a contact-pitcher, and we don’t have a strong defense behind him anyway.
He’s shown bursts of effectiveness, but I really don’t get why he’s still around.
Wow, kevin. why don’t you Have another pinch of chew, shotgun a budweiser, hop in your lifted pickup truck with the confederate flag in the back window and go shoot some critters for supper. And maybe later, you can screw your sister and stomp some queers that was givin’ you the eye. Does the uppity Obama bother you?
Hey BC.
A Minnesota Sports Team is trying to pick up an aging, under performing veteran with a HUGE CONTRACT? Hmmmm…..OH NO!! Have the Twins hired Kevin McHale??
generalizations are fun, don’t you think?
The pitcher that bothers me is Bonser. I think he has the stuff to be an excellent set up guy. For whatever reason, though, he just can’t seem to do it for the Twins.
Is Daryll Strawberry available after his next rehab stint
I vote that we need more Somalian’s to come over and help out in areas of employment that are left unfilled
Blake - I think when Boof is on the mound, his brain gets in the way.
relax, you all know I like to stir up the pot a bit,,,, if I offended anyone I am sorry
afterall, we are not GOP or Dem, conservative or liberal, black or white, Protestant or Catholic, we are TWINS fans, this is our state, and this is Twins Territory!!!
Hey jimmybee the straw man would be a nice pick up and bring in Steve Howe as well when he’s done.
Blake
The team doesn’t feel that Bonser is the kind of pitcher that can go several days in a row. That’s why Gardy first tried Bass in those situations instead. Boof can certainly help out in the late innings, but he can’t be the regular setup guy.
ES: thanks for jumping into the middle of a conversation… read the rest of the posts before blabbing away…
I can blame Gardy for whatever I want… he’s consistently screwed up our younger players for years by benching them and the rest of FO for never bringing them up from the minors. Gardy never thought Casilla could play D, so he yanked him around the infield, benching him, sending him back to the minors, etc,… and now? well now he can’t wait to get him back on the team. He’s always treated players differently, and those undeserving of playing time find themselves in the lineup everyday and can do no wrong… bad managing is what I call it.
“I vote that we need more Somalian’s to come over and help out in areas of employment that are left unfilled”
Can they thow strikes or hit curveballs? If so the Twins want them.
BC in ND, its easy for you to say sitting in north dakota that we are not paying taxes,,,, you arent
we in Hennepin County are, for the benefit of the Twins ownership and those from elsewhere to come in and enjoy games, I wish the tax would have gone statewide, and we could have had a retractable dome, so those coming from far away could count on a game being played
MWW-
I don’t disagree with your assessment. I was just wondering if you factored it in. I don’t think Kubel is as bad on D in RF as others on here do.
Hindsight is always 20/20, huh?
Blake-
I agree with you on Bonser. He has a good fastball and a great curve. Perfect 8th inning guy if he could ever channel it in the proper direction and embrace the role.
BC how bout we try and bring back Jose Canseco and Quinton Rampage Jackson to try out. Oh yeah and I heard Bob Booze Bottle Welch is still around
Boof reminds me of “MEAT” from the movie “Bull Durham”. He’s got a million dollar arm and a 10 cent brain!! I think Boof has a great arm, but whatever happens from his brain to his arm, is anyone’s guess!
wipron “Boof reminds me of “MEAT” from the movie “Bull Durham”. He’s got a million dollar arm and a 10 cent brain!! I think Boof has a great arm, but whatever happens from his brain to his arm, is anyone’s guess!”
Garder belt???
MarkW - Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t know this was your own private blog. My bad. Sorry for commenting on your opinions. Next time I won’t say anything when you post something so stupid.
Garder belt???
You could be on to something here!! Roll with it!! Maybe, he’s breathing out of the wrong eye!! It’s a mystery!!
if pohlad giving political money bothers you check everything he onws so you don’e give him any money. if you drink pepsi products you better stop. check what insurance you have, where you bank, on and on. and stop watching or listening to games he makes money off of that to.
wipron Hit the Bull. I said hit the Mascot
Steve,
I mentioned the age difference, AND that in 2000 the team wasn’t that good.
My point, was someone decided a disaster (Santana 2000) had potential. I have read that the Twins like Bass’s sinker.
The ERA stat could be said to not reflect the body of Bass’s work since 12 of his 36 ER’s came in 2 blowout games 19-3 v. Detroit and 15-8 v. Boston (that’s 1/3 of the ER in 2 2/3 innings). As we saw in Seattle a short while ago, just as hitting can be contagious, so can bad pitching.
I will grant you Bass has not met the standard in High Leverage situations, yet wasn’t Gurrier 2/3 years in the bullpen before he was ever put into a high leverage situation?
I realize the Twins NEVER make a correct decision, per these blogs. If something or someone works out, it is ALWAYS the player succeeding in spite of the Owner, front office, manager and coaching. I don’t happen to subscribe to that theory. which makes me the brightest bulb in the chandelier
Regards,
And just a note on the “politics” talk… I think it’s relevant to know where Pohlad donates his funds, as a majority of his wealth comes from owning the Twins which we support financially. Just as we buy things from Target, Best Buy, and everywhere else, you can see where those businesses are spending their profit as well and if you so choose, you can decide on where to shop and if you’ll attend any more Twins games…
fcmlefty: I did a comparison between Jim Thome and Jason Kubel at year 4 of their major league careers, each having 321 at bats. Kubel had a few more RBI’s, fewer strikeouts and an identical BA. It’s not possible to compare beyond that in year 4, as Jim Thome only had 321 at bats.
All: Maybe Bonser needs to “breathe through his eyelids?”
Not so Original Kevin
What i meant was unless your a business owner your not paying the taxes they are. You have a choice wether or not you want to purchase items from those businesses.
pohlad makes very little of his money from the twins:
The family holds a stake in:
Marquette Financial Cos., a real estate investment banking, commercial finance and commercial banking business with assets totaling $2.4 billion;
PepsiAmericas Inc., the 18th-largest public company in Minnesota;
United Properties, the seventh-largest real estate developer in the Twin Cities;
Minnesota Twins;
International Jet Inc., which provides services for corporate jets; and
Stanton Group Inc., a benefits and compensation provider selling products including insurance, trust and broker dealer activities to clients nationwide.
beware!
BC did you know Phil Jackson is from ND.
MarkW - The majority of Pohlad’s wealth does not come from the Twins. Get a clue.
I guess we built pohlad a stadium, so he better vote how we want him to. He no longer has the right to think for himself. Of course, I don’t know if he does much thinking these days, what with how old he is. He’s so old, I bet he was around 6000 years ago, when the earth was created.
BC, true enough, but if you live smack dab in the middle of the county, and yo need to buy goods and services, you cant very well avoid paying these taxes.
And since I am a baseball fan, I personally benefit from the taxes as I willl go to enjoy games. I just think its stupid that people who dont like baseball to pay taxes so that a billionaire can make more money.
“The majority of Pohlad’s wealth comes from the Twins”
It comes from syphoning gas tanks at night. Foreclosing on farms out west and Breaking into peoples accounts and stealing pennies like on office space.
Dragon,
Let me pick your last post apart line by line.
“I look at Bass as something like a Rule 5 draftee. He has to stay with the club or be lost.”
Bass wasn’t a Rule 5 draftee, and there’s a reason the Royals didn’t even want him. And why can’t we just lose him? He’s not good.
“While the age is certainly different, and the clubs circumstances are also different, I remember a certain Rule 5 draftee who’s Rookie year stats were:
86IP 102H 62ER 11HR 54BB 64K 6.49ERA
Bass rookie stats are 65 1/3IP 80H 36ER 11HR 21BB 31K 4.96ERA”
Yes, their ages are certainly different. Santana was 21 at the time with three years of baseball between the rookie level and Single-A. Bass is 26 with eight seasons in the minors with a career ERA of 5.09 in 359.1 IP between AA and AAA. Santana showed promise and improvement, along with something they call “stuff.” Bass is a career minor-leaguer who has shown very few flashes of what can maybe be considered mediocrity.
“I AM NOT saying that Bass would ever measure up with Santana, rather we’re lucky that people with more baseball sense than what is shown on these blogs are in charge.”
Oh, but you DID compare the two. Read your post again. Somehow the fact that the two have similar rookie numbers means Bass is the next Sandy Koufax.
“Also, While Baker had a promising 2005, in 2006 he seemed to regress enough than a mojority of bloggers on Twins sites thought he was worth less than a bag of balls. As to Span, this is his 1st year in the majors, and I remember countless posts as how he is/was a spectacularly failed pick.”
Scott Baker had a track record of success in the minors, unlike Brian Bass. And players who show talent and success in the minors are the players you stick it out with. And with all things considered, Denard Span was a failed pick coming into this season. And although he’s put together a fine season between AAA and the majors this year, it still may prove to be a fluke and a failed pick. But even comparing a Royals-castoff to Baker and Span is quite a stretch.
“Lastly, I have NEVER asserted that the Twins are PERFECT. Yet, I submit their failure rate is far less than these blog’s success rate.”
You basically implied it. You are just one of the many apologists. Admit it.
Anything else you’d like me to tear apart?
ES: You “commented” about Casilla’s injured thumb this year and that I’m blaming Gardy for that… I said to read the other posts and see what we were discussing before you post something that doesn’t have anything to do with what was being talked about. So it’s probably best if you don’t say anything for fear of being called out for not knowing what you are commenting about.
Question: Does Punto return to No. 2 spot tonight????
If so, I’m gonna have to bring it back:
“Well I’ll start of by saying this, do not blame that game on the pitching, alright….I don’t care who you play…”
MarkW- you don’t know what your are talking about. You think Pohlad gets all his money from the Twins and you don’t understand why Gardy had questions about Casilla in previous seasons. Did you see Casilla play last year? Of course he wants him back this year, he’s a completely different player.
mike wants wins,
Yes, you are. I never said you weren’t allowed to post freely.
And the point is that the taxpayers are funding more than half of Pohlad’s stadium, which increases the value of the Twins, and thus, increases his net worth. And then he donates to a presidential candidate that some of us dislike, making the whole thing somewhat of a scam.
ES: give me a breakdown of his financial records then? do you have them in front of you?
Jason:
I think it depends on who is playing SS tonight. If it is Harris, Punto will hit 8th. If it is Everett, Punto hits 2nd.
His holdings in Marquette Financial Co. total $2.4 billion. That’s just his largest of numerous businesses, but it’s a tad more than the Twins are worth.
I agree with whomever said taht Boof should be a good reliever. He seems to have that kind of stuff. But, for some reason, he’s not. It is one of the mysteries of sports that makes it unpredictable and fun to watch.
So is part of the tax money we are giving towards the new stadium being given to Obama. If so I will be outraged
I just think its stupid that people who dont like baseball to pay taxes so that a billionaire can make more money.
I don’t use city parks. I think they are stupid. We shouldn’t have to pay taxes to support those either.
I also don’t very often (too busy watching baseball). So I think libraries are stupid. We shouldn’t have to pay taxes to support those as well.
I also have a fear of flying. So I think airports are stupid. We shouldn’t have to pay taxes to help bail out airlines that are struggling.
And so on. And so forth. Nobody likes paying taxes, and not everybody uses/enjoys the things that those taxes support.
Don’t feel like your some kind of revolutionary.
fcmleft: Say it aint so, please…they can’t put him back at 2!!!
“…a high school team, junior college team, college team, much less an NFL team…when you strikeout 5 times, four swinging, one failed bunt attempt, throw your bat, kick your helmet, you aint gonna beat anyone I just mentioned. That was a disgraceful performance in my opinion…we gave them the game, by doing that…”
Scott
How is it a scam? Was his donating or voting a certain way politically part of the stadium deal? What if he had donated to McCain? Then the other half of the irrational* poeple here would be pissed. I am far from pohlad’s biggest fan; I think he is a world class a-hole. But I would not presume to tell the man how to think, vote, or worship. The way some people think just blows my mind.
*The irrational people that are here. Not implying that everyone here is irrational.
“He’s so old, I bet he was around 6000 years ago, when the earth was created.”
i’m speechless! everything i learned in 6 yrs of college out the the door/window.
Jimmy Bee
THAT would be a good reason to be outraged.
First of all, I don’t think Pohlad makes all of his money from the Twins, when did I say that? I used “majority” which it probably isn’t 51% of his total wealth… but as a taxpayer funding his new stadium which will no doubt increase his wealth and value of his Twins organization, I think I do have a say and/or opinion in what he spends his wealth on and who he donates that wealth to.
I wont bother going into further detail about Casilla since you are an obvious Gardy apologist and it’s hard to talk to a wall.
But I would not presume to tell the man how to think, vote, or worship.
Wait. Worship? You mean Pohlad believes in God?
Oh great. So now their funding a church. Whatever happened to seperation of church and state!
Did you know that for at least a four/five year period that the Pohlad Foundation was a member of the Horatio Alger Association? Each year the association gave away thousands of dollars to students going into college. The ones I was reading about when I was getting ready for post-secondary (and the ones my sister is looking into now) are roughly 1200-1500 a year. I believe there are about 20-30 new recipients a year.
I’d rather see Pohlad use that money to buy a third baseman. F*** the children.
Scott,
IF Santana were in Bass’s spot in the bullpen this year, with his stats in 2000, this blog would be just rabid against him as they are towards Bass.
I personally don’t know why or what the Twins see in Bass, and I admit they have NEVER EVER made a correct call on any player.
What I implied if you would try to harness those dozen or so gray cells of yours, is that you or I don’t get to make these calls.
I also happen to believe that whether pixie dust or serendipity this team is playing far better than most expected.
Be a masochist if you want. I prefer to enjoy the ride. As “Odd Ball” said in “Kelly’s Hero’s” “Enough with the negative waves, Moriarity!”
Regards,
“I think he is a world class a-hole.”
I agree 100 %.
MarkW
As a taxpayer, my taxes helped pay for the road in front of your house, thereby increasing the value of your home, thereby increasing your personal wealth. I demand you vote for Obama, as i feel i have a say in how you vote, because i subsidized the street in front of your home.
I think I do have a say and/or opinion in what he spends his wealth on and who he donates that wealth to.
You’re right. Pohlad should absolutely have to give his money where YOU think it should go.
However, since I disagree with your opinion of where it should go. Pohlad should also spend some of his money where I deem it neccesary.
Of course, a third party may disagree with us both. He or she should be sufficiently satisfied as well.
After all, everybody in Hennepin county is paying this tax. Not just you.
MarkW - I’m not a Gardy apologist, I’m being realistic. Tell me one thing Casilla did last year or in spring training to warrant a starting position. He looked like a deer in the headlights last year and didn’t look any better in spring training. You argument has no basis in fact.
there really needs to be some Twins news!
It is fun watching people pile on one another for a bit, but after awhile its just sad.
So is Pohlad giving our tax $$$ for the new stadium to Obama?
You’ve got to be kidding me!,
When did I ever say I wanted to tell Pohlad how to “think, vote, or worship?”
I disagree with his donation, and I feel somewhat cheated since I’m essentially giving him money in the form of a tax. He can do whatever he wants with his money (funny that a wealthy businessman would vote for the candidate promising to raise taxes), but since he has some of mine, it’s a little disheartening.
Rumor on KFAN is Yankees waived Richie Sexson….
So is Pohlad giving our tax $$$ for the new stadium to Obama?
Yep. Obama is getting all of the money intended for the new stadium.
Meanwhile, I have no idea what that massive stadium shaped structure being built down in hennepin county is supposed to be.
No, he is not. If that were the case, this would be a national scandal, and would disgrace both Obama and Pohlad, and the state of MN. He is donating his OWN, PERSONAL WEALTH.
MarkW,
Since Pohlad’s net worth is about $3 Billion and the worth of Marquette Financial is $2.4 Billion, that means the majority of his wealth is from that, not the Twins.
In fact out of all of the Businesses that the Pohlad family owns, the Twins are probably closer to the bottom in net worth than it is to the top.
wouldn’t surprise me Jason. I know WFAN has been ripping him.
Rumor on KFAN is Yankees waived Richie Sexson…
Not surprised there. REAL glad the Twins passed on him.
Nice update Joe. That was all very confusing this morning. I still don’t get why they were so afraid of Bradford. He doesn’t strike anyone out, I get that, but a .263 average against, a 2.30 era, and a ground ball double play pitcher, who makes a little too much for a middle reliever (by the Twins standards). When I saw the Rays claim him, I knew he would be the best thing to get offered this August, that the Twins could get.
Washburn? That would’ve been a blunder of the largest proportions (for the Twins)… The Mariners are a mess for not dumping that salary. Like you said Joe, time will tell.
funny that a wealthy businessman would vote for the candidate promising to raise taxes
Yeah, it is always “funny” when something isn’t quite as Fox News would make it seem.
You’ve got to be kidding me! Cool. I wouldn’t think it would be legal to force a party through taxes intended for a stadium. T are you on welfare
Hey guys, I’m not telling him what to do with his money, I’m disagreeing with what he’s already done with it and in turn, I’m voicing my opinion on the matter. Basically saying that I think it’s wrong since we are being fleeced with taxes to pay for a stadium and he’s out donating to presidential candidates I dont agree with.
But with everyone here, they’d rather shrug their shoulders and say “nothing you can do about it” and go about their way… I guess I care a bit more about these things…
Kidding me: I dont have a house, so you didn’t pay for anything in front of it…
What pisses me off the most is if i want to get a blinged out $20,000 diamond ring…. i gotta pay 30 bucks to a stadium.
T are you on welfare
Don’t you pay attention? I’m on the Twins payroll. That’s why I don’t care if they fail. Because its not like I’d lose my job if they went under or anything…
And “….”, I think you’re on to something. If Pohald uses our tax money to support Obama (which is impossible since we’re paying taxes to the STATE and not Pohald), then Obama can raise taxes. That way we’re paying higher taxes, sending more money to Obama to keep him in the White House to continue raising taxes.
It’s a vicious cycle. WHAT HAVE WE DONE!?
Dragon,
I knew you wouldn’t be able to counter logic and sound statistics.
You know what, this isn’t 2000 and Santana is not in the bullpen. And why can’t you just admit there’s no reason to wait on a guy like Bass in the middle of a pennant race?
You’re ignorant is what it comes down to. No, I don’t make these calls, but I can certainly give my opinion on them. And guess what? Brian Bass will never be an effective reliever in the majors. Ever.
And a classic response from a classic apologist. “Just enjoy the ride.”
It’s not going to last very long with who’s currently in charge.
Joe,
With Richie Sexson being waived, any chance we pick him up? He’d be cheap, still hitting lefties relatively well, and could play first when Morneau DHs instead of Mike Lamb (who has not exactly played a solid 1B).
Scott
“And the point is that the taxpayers are funding more than half of Pohlad’s stadium, which increases the value of the Twins, and thus, increases his net worth. And then he donates to a presidential candidate that some of us dislike, making the whole thing somewhat of a scam.”
MarkW
“as a taxpayer funding his new stadium which will no doubt increase his wealth and value of his Twins organization, I think I do have a say and/or opinion in what he spends his wealth on and who he donates that wealth to.”
Scott, you didn’t word it quite as stupidly as Mark, but it was close.
the stadium deal actually says $.25 of every hot dog sold goes to obama. 100% of every pepsi sold goes to carl who then gives it to obama. carl uses all the tax money he gets to pay the taxes obama raises, very confusing.
Scott,
I feel real sorry that the taxpayers are funding the stadium. I am sure you have complained as vociferously about how you and other taxpayers PERSONALLY benefited by one of the WORST leases in sports for the past 25-30 years.
It’s actually funny to read these complaints. I have believed that there were some intelligent people in Minnesota, surely much smarter then the locals around here (DC & Baltimore). Within 35 miles of my home, there have been 3 ML/NFL stadia built on the taxpayer dole in the past 20 odd years, AND a public/private arena. ALL have been extremely successful, EVEN in DC where the municipal government is the worst on this or any other planet. 2 years after MLB extorted a $600+ million stadium from the taxpayers, revenues (mostly Real Estate Taxes) related to the stadium and nearby development, the City is taking in a $20 mil surplus (revenues greater then debt service) per year.
Regards,
i find the discussion regarding pohlad’s donation to be absolutely naive. what about the oil companies that receive tax breaks to drill? they donate HUGE amounts of cash to public officials on both sides of the aisle. how about the wealthy pastors of mega churches? their organizations are 501(c)3 tax exempt organizations, which means you and i subsidized a portion of their salary, which is then being donated to public officials. the only real argument that should be made is for overhauling the system of donations to candidates. period. partisan rhetoric is getting very old.
it’s wrong since we are being fleeced with taxes to pay for a stadium and he’s out donating to presidential candidates I dont agree with.
The two are COMPLETELY disconnected from one another.
You don’t get to tell a private citizen what to do with his personal wealth simply because you’re paying money to the government.
And like it’s already been explained to you. So what if you don’t agree with Obama’s politics? Maybe Joe and Jane Twinsfan over in Hennepin county do.
So now you’re saying that YOUR opinion should carry more weight than theirs for no other reason than because its your own.
First of all T defends Pohlad no matter what, so I dont put much credence in his views.
Second, I would think a sports owner, who relies so much on public image, would stay more neutral in his political dealings publically. He can naturally vote for who he wants, but it smacks some of us weird that we are paying taxes for his stadium, and he funnels money to Obama.
I would think the same if he did it to McCain.
Ha ha ha all of the beautiful tax money shall be mine.
“Yeah, it is always “funny” when something isn’t quite as Fox News would make it seem.”
…
I don’t think we need Fox News to tell us that Obama is a tax-and-spend liberal. But keep living in your made-up utopia.
And a classic response from a classic apologist. “Just enjoy the ride.”
And a classic response from a classic basher. “You’re just an apologist.”
See how that works both ways there?
I bet ya Obama can’t even throw a 90 mph fastball.
First of all T defends Pohlad no matter what, so I dont put much credence in his views.
Says the guy who doesn’t acknowledge any “argument” unless it specifically agrees and repeats his own narrow view on what is right and wrong.
Get it through your head. Not everybody paying the taxes agrees with you. Your opinion isn’t special. You aren’t a unique snowflake.
T gets it. Thank you, T.
jimmy bee says:
August 15th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
BC did you know Phil Jackson is from ND.
Yes jimmy he was born in Williston and went to UND. Did you know Roger Marris grew up in Fargo lol. My Dad went to school and played ball with Roger.
who do you guys think is a higher prospect? McCain or Obama?
i think bush made most or some of his wealth on the increase in value of his share of the texas rangers caused mostly by the taxpayers building the rangers a new stadium. go figure.
insanity it’s everywhere!!!
Kidding me: I’m glad you are okay with the situation… can i come over to your house and take all your money? Actually, do u just want to meet me at your bank and give it to me then? doesn’t seem like you’d have a problem with that right? Then I can spend that however I want and I won’t worry about the taxes I pay.
I dont see anything stupid about this plan, do you?
one more thing. pohlad’s donation was, like, one BAGILLIONTH of his net worth. you think the money minnesota chipped in to the stadium actually factored in to his decision to donate? keep in mind, the tax-payer contribution isn’t a liquid asset; pohlad has no way to actually spend any of that money. i can just hear the supposed conversation at the pohlad dinner table: carl - “yes! now that the taxpayers have bolstered my balance sheet by a percentage point, i can FINALLY empty my pocket change into the obama coffers!”
Dragon,
I can’t be upset over the fact that we’re wasting taxpayers’ dollars on a baseball stadium when it can be easily funded privately?
Right, because the roads in the metro don’t need any work.
Not so Original Kevin
Kevin not to keep beating a dead horse but the goods your referring to are all luxuries. I’m not 100% sure about Minnesota but i know in ND there are no taxes on neccesities like food and heating fuel and electricity.
Melky sent to the Minors
Shawn:
I have concerns regarding McCains durability in the long haul, and think a four-year contract could be far to long of a commitment for a young team like the Twins. They’ll be hitting their prime while he’s getting ready to retire.
Meanwhile Obama brings youthful energy to the team, but I have concerns that his lack of experience under pressure could cost him to come up short in the clutch.
Dragon,
was there a tax like this in Baltimore or DC?
In NY, the teams have bond issues. The new stadiums don’t affect my taxes yet, but like everything else in NYC, they will.
You’ve got to be kidding me!,
Now I can’t disagree with someone’s political leanings? Or only when it aligns with your views?
You’re a classic liberal. Free speech until it’s something you don’t agree with.
Melky sent to the Minors
???
To make room for who?
No, I’m saying I have an opinion, unlike the others on this blog that are telling me to bend over and take it since that’s “the way it is” and “everyone pays taxes”
So what? I can’t disagree with what my tax money goes too? T and Kidding me, I think Russia and China are looking for new residents who dont think for themselves.
T,
I think you are right. Obama may be better at basketball though. Can’t use McCain as anything other than a DH, he can’t bring his arms above his head.
rumor has it mccains arm is about like buschers and everetts.
Now I can’t disagree with someone’s political leanings?
When did we go from “You can’t tell Pohlad who he can and can’t donate to.” to “You can’t disagree with his politics.” ??
Interesting thought Shawn, but I don’t think the Twins are exactly desperate for a Point Guard at the moment. 
T says:
August 15th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
And a classic response from a classic apologist. “Just enjoy the ride.”
And a classic response from a classic basher. “You’re just an apologist.”
See how that works both ways there?
I do see how it works. None of the apologists can debate intelligently and argue their point of view without finally resorting to some sort of “just enjoy the season,” or “you’re not a true fan if you question anything.” You’d think some of you guys worked for the team, telling us not to say anything negative.
Dragon is just upset that I took him to the cleaners on his faulty Bass argument.
T:
They both have hot wives, that should be good for something.
T,
I dunno. ESPN radio sportscenter manetioned it with Sexon getting cut.
Mike w/or w/o Mad Dog has been saying Damon would play center.
too bad Manny isn’t in NY to cut off the throw.
The New York Post reports that the Yankees will demote Melky Cabrera to Triple-A and waive Richie Sexson prior to Friday’s game.
According to the newspaper, Brett Gardner and Cody Ransom will be called up from Triple-A to fill their spots on the roster. Cabrera is hitting just .242/.296/.337 in 117 games and Sexson has hit .221/.321/.381 in 96 games overall, including .250/.371/.393 with the Yankees. Gardner has hit .296/.414/.422 with 37 steals in 94 games at Triple-A and could see significant action in center field depending on how the Yankees choose to deploy Johnny Damon, making him a worthwhile pickup in AL-only leagues.
Hopefully this will put an end to the political arm of our discussions:
You don’t get as wealthy and successful as Carl Pohlad without mastering the art of buttering up politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle…
Now…can we get back to Punto once and for all, please…
August 15th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Now I can’t disagree with someone’s political leanings?
When did we go from “You can’t tell Pohlad who he can and can’t donate to.” to “You can’t disagree with his politics.” ??
T, I love how you answer everyone’s questions for them. Please, let those that the question is addressed to answer for themselves.
Find the post where I said “I should be able to tell Pohlad what he does with his money.”
Jason,
Punto for Prez?
So if Hennepin County was to give a tax break to Target to build a new corporate building in Minneapolis, are you going to be worried about which political candidates the CEO of Target is giving his money. Corporations get tax breaks all the time to build in the Twin Cities, but I don’t hear anyone complaining about their political donations.
I can’t disagree with what my tax money goes too?
No. You can disagree with where you tax money goes all day long MarkW.
But that doesn’t mean you get to tell Pohald where he spends his personal wealth.
You disagree. Joe and Jane Twinsfan agree. If both are Hennepin county taxpayers…who’s opinion gets more weight?
The question was never “Do I get to disagree with Pohlad’s spending?” as you would like to try and make it sound (typical strawman there)
The question was always “Do I get to tell Pohald what to do?”
My tax money all mine. I’m tax stealing rich biatch!
Who is Punto voting for?
They both have hot wives, that should be good for something.
Well if we’re going to use that as a basis, I say forget the wives and go with McCain because of his daughter.
I figure if I’m going to have to put up with the first family on TV for at least the next four years I might as well enjoy what I’m looking at.
Amiright?!
MarkW
You are making this into a liberals vs conservatives thing. It, up to this point, hasn’t been about that for me. I would take equal issue with liberals telling pohlad how to spend his money, if that were the case. The issue is people connecting how carl pohlad donates his own money, to elected state representatives approving legislation to publicly fund a stadium, without which there would not be mlb baseball in mn. Carl pohlad donating money has nothing to do with the stadium. Nothing. If you take issue with Mr. Obama’s legitimacy as a presidential candidate, that is fine, and is your right as an american. However, this is hardly the forum for it. Most americans are not right and left wing extremists. We are middle of the road, and want nothing more than to go about our business, pursueing our careers, loves, and hobbies with minimal distraction. The more you argue your point here, the more you appear foolish.
Punto for Prez?
Vote Punto: “He’ll battle his tail off…for you.”
to get back to baseball t do you think they should go after orlando hudson this winter and move casilla to ss? there really aren’t a lot of good free agents this yr.
T Yeah because Chelsea Clinton was so fugly she could break a miror with a quick wink and a smile
Shawn:
“What’s that? Ah, Punto? Don’t talk about Punto…are you kidding me…Punto? I just hope we can win a game…another game.”
too bad Punto isn’t 35
Vote “Shawn in Binghamton” i just turned 35
I will battle my tail off like Punto!
When was I telling him where to spend his money? and now we are separating “personal” wealth from his other wealth? Couldn’t it all be labeled “personal”?
ES: Yeah, they do, and maybe you need to listen more, because a lot of people look at where Corporations donate their money…
but again, since all of you just close your eyes and plug your ears and walk about your lives, you’d never know.
Jason,
you talking about Punto!?, not a game, PUNTO!
STOP………………..this is a baseball blog!!!!!!!!!!!
“We are middle of the road, and want nothing more than to go about our business, pursueing our careers, loves, and hobbies with minimal distraction. The more you argue your point here, the more you appear foolish.”
And I’m the foolish one? funny…
Honestly gook I think the Twins should keep bothering the Orioles until they give up Roberts.
I also saw both Crede and Thome are FAs at the end of the year. (Though I don’t know what’ll be like now that Crede’s hurt)
I’d like to see the Twins put pressure on Chicago by trying and smooth talk one of those two away. (Though I admit it’s highly unlikely that the Sox would let Thome go)
As long as the MIF ISN’T Punto/Everett going into 09, I think I can manage. I like what I’ve seen out of Casilla and Harris.
I would vote for Punto. Anyone who is so obviously unqualified to play major league baseball, but can wrangle his way into consistent playing time, has the moxy to get things done in the halls of Congress.
MarkW - Yes, you are the foolish one, that has already been established.
When was I telling him where to spend his money?
Ask and ye shall recieve:
I think I do have a say and/or opinion in what he spends his wealth on and who he donates that wealth to.
Oops.
has the moxy to get things done in the halls of Congress.
Not to mention it’d be kickass to see him slide headfirst into Congress for the State of the Union.
I think the Twins should go after their biggest need in the offseason - the bullpen. Sign someone like a Chad Durbin, Will Ohman, or even a closer like Brandon Lyon to give the bullpen some depth. I think they’re going to give Hughes a shot next spring training to get a spot at either 3rd or 2nd which should add some pop to the offense.
Was Obama in the black panther movement???
I think we should try and go out and get John Grabow. His brother is a friend of mine and is moving to Minny
[…] Originally published by Around the Majors […]
ES: Oh really, by you and your committee?
Which bank do u have YOUR money at? Can we go there after I’m done getting Kidding me’s money?
Foolish because
A) I dont agree with you?
B) I dont think Gardy is a good manager?
C) I dont think my tax money should fund a new stadium for a billionaire owner who then donates his money to a liberal presidential candidate?
D) I have a strong opinion and it scares you?
Okay, the first task for us Puntonites is to get (Little) Nicky a new nickname.
MVPunto? Headfirst Nick?
How about this for a slogan?
“He’ll do with your taxes what he does with his batting average: Keep ‘em low!”
Anyone else have some ideas?
jimmy,
think Obama is too young to have been a panther. he did play bball in Hawaii though
saam,
“He’ll do with your taxes what he does with his batting average: Keep ‘em low!”
i think i will put that sign on my lawn!
T - that was in reference to the new stadium… if I am paying for something Pohlad should be paying for, then yes, I do think I have a say (whether I do or not in reality) I still think I have a say about his donations. but I dont, so my opinion is that I disagree.
But as you said, it’s unrelated, but I guess I dont view it that way…
hudson and roberts close #’s same age, roberts more sb’s.
hudson, 8 hr-41 rbi, .305 ave, .367 obp
roberts, 8 hr-42 rbi, .292 ave, .374 obp
roberts signed for 8m next yr about what huson will want.
who is better defensively?
problem with Hudson is he gets hurt in August and is out the rest of the year.
Oh brother….
Sorry..it was in reference to Punto’s nicknames…
This blog needs an enema.
I am from Seattle and I am so embarrassed for my M’s. They are run by bufoons.
Have fun kicking their ass this weekend.
Let’s go get Sexson now that he is free again and use him as a Power DH and bat off the bench.
Vavra can turn him around!!
Win Twins!
Let’s take a little inventory here…
The Mariners ridiculously overvalued Washburn’s value.
The Twins considerably overvalued Washburn’s value.
Mariner fans are pissed that their front office didn’t screw the Twins on this deal.
Twins fans are relieved that the Mariner front office didn’t screw the Twins on this deal.
I think the conclusions draw themselves.
I hope the lineups come out soon so we can get off of the Pohlads and politics stuff.
So we can talk about new and refreshing topics like Punto, Everett, Gardenhire, or why someone is batting where they are batting
Washburn AND Sexson? Hmmmm. They might both be very happy to come to Minnesota, play relaxed, be major contributors to our pennant run……………probably not I guess.
Sweetone i’ll say the o/u on Lirianos K total will be 7 tonight i like the over.
MarkW
You are foolish because you are a fanatic. You are unable to change as a person. You view compramise as a bad thing. You view people who have ideas and ideals different from your own as enemies. Your Conservitive fanatasism is no different than liberal fanatasism or religious fanatasism of any kind. It is a dangerous, and, as much as i hate the term, unamerican mindset. Fanaticism is why we have terrorists of all kinds, from abotion clinic bombings, to govt. building bombings, to church bombings, to kidnappings and beheadings, to suicide bombers.
Being a Twins fanatic is dangerous too i can’t decide if i should stop watching them or quit smoking.
Jesus H., I come to this board to avoid the inane ramblings I see on message boards that deal with political issues. Can we stick to baseball peoplel?
“BC of ND says:
August 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
This blog needs an enema.”
OR A FRONTAL LABOTOMY
Does anyone care to agree with me that Kubel needs to get it going this weekend (or will I be obliterated for even suggesting such a thing)? He is our 5 hitter now, for better or worse.
Jason i would like to see D Young between Justin and Kubes tonight to see what happens. What are the chances that will happen?
Unless McCain or Obama can wade through the 6th, 7th, or 8th inning of a tight game without pissing away a lead every other night, I’m not sure what this discussion has to do with the Twins.
Can you please take your silly argument to Hannity’s blog, or someplace similar?
I want to see LaPanta go in for some MR work
lineup on len3 nicky back in the 2nd spot!
youve got to be kidding: take a chill pill man, you are greatly over reacting
jimmybee i was a teenage labotomy as i’m sure most of my fellow bloggers were.
I’ll stop with the politics, as long as it doesn’t come up again. I think if anything can be agreed upon here, regardless of political affiliation, it is that almost all of us are Twins fans.
BC I receive my labotomy after I went koo koo and threw a TV through a hospital window.
I didn’t bring it up.
Kidding me: Wow, you really painted me with one kind of brush there didn’t you? I’m a fanatic because why? Because I have a strong opinion on how my tax dollars are wasted? Or because I don’t think I should have to give one dime to a billionaire so he can keep a baseball team in MN? That’s being a fanatic? Why do I have to change?
And now you are “implying” that I’m the type of person who will be blowing up abortion clinics and beheading people like a terrorist? I think you’ve got a little itch you can’t scratch until everyone conforms to the same ideas…
And please don’t post again until you can spell properly, it’s not that hard is it?
You’ve got to be kidding me! It just gives me more ammo to hate Pohlad with
And I’d rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.
T: “Rumor on KFAN is Yankees waived Richie Sexson…
Not surprised there. REAL glad the Twins passed on him.”
I dunno. Just glanced at his stat line vs LHPs. over .900 OPS this year in 99 plate appearances, including 6HRs. Do we think Ruiz is going to do better than that through the rest of the season?
GOOD ONE, KIDDING ! ! !
Scott,
Sorry I had to go meet a client.
As to my enjoying the game, I do, and have been for over 50 years.
NOW, I’ll enjoy it even more knowing that each Twins WIN gives you gastric distress
Regards,
In response to an earlier comment about Bass being out of options and why he wasnt sent down (really after the Boston game over a month ago).
Bass is a Twin because he was out of options last year with Kansas City. If the Twins sent him down he would be claimed. He is in the same situation that Guerrier was in 3 years ago with Pittsburgh. Guerrier was out of options, Pittsburgh did not keep him on the big leauge club and the Twins claimed him. Guerrier struggled, but then had a decent year and this year was basically 1 bad outing from having a 2run ERA for near half the season. Granted Guerrier has struggled from overuse now, but I still would not have wanted to lose him 2 years ago when he had Brian Bass stats and was even a spot starter. Take out Bass’ 3 (Boston, Yanks, Chi-Sox) horrendous outings and he hasnt done that badly, the problem is when is one of those bases loaded momnets that Gardy brings Bass into (in-order to get a ground ball) going to turn into a long ball and bad outing for the pen). Anyway, they were both minor league free agents because of essentially minor league service time. On a side note I’d wonder if Ruiz is in the same boat (but the Twins prob. dont mind the possibility of losing him.
First, Joe C.-thanks for sticking with a confusing and fast-changing story. All of us, I think, are curious about what the Twins are up to with the waiver wire and trying to solve the BP mess.
If it is true that the Twins were serious about Washburn and actually thought Seattle may just dump Washburn’s salary on them, I’m not sure I see the logic. I keep reading excuses for why Bradford wouldn’t work–he gave up a few hits and walks in his stints with Tampa (no runs though), too many groundballs are hit off him, he was expensive, etc. If those are indeed the reasons the Twins passed on him, why would Washburn be an improvement?? He has a history of arm problems, has an ERA this year (and over the last several years) much higher than Bradford, is not experienced coming out of the pen, and is FAR more expensive than Bradford. I don’t get it…I realize Bradford is not the answer to every problem in the pen–but when compared to Washburn, he’s a cheaper, more effective option. I’d rather have the Twins do nothing than take Washburn…at least this way the Twins could use (in theory, anyway) all those millions in the offseason to address obvious holes in the pen. How does Washburn make them a better team this year…or in the future??
BTW- since when is giving up too many groundballs worse than watching current BP pitches sail over the fence, into the gap, hit the batter or end up 30 feet behind Mauer??
JC: What would Sexson play for the Twins? Would he be platooning for Kubel?
Also, any additional info about Cabrera? I’d have thought he’d be waiver vulnerable by now…
Anyone else have some ideas?
Vote Punto in ‘08: “He’ll take on the issues headfirst and battle his tail off for you.”
Does anyone care to agree with me that Kubel needs to get it going this weekend
What is “getting it going”? Is that like “getting after it” in the sense that it’s immeasurable?
Or because I don’t think I should have to give one dime to a billionaire so he can keep a baseball team in MN?
It’s a good thing that the majority of Twins fans don’t think like you do. Or else nobody would go to the games and thus they’d have no reason to keep the team here.
Vote Punto in ‘08: “He’ll take on the issues headfirst and battle his tail off for you.”
If it gets him out of the starting lineup permanently he’s got my vote.
Joe, thanks for the “inside scoop!”
I’m way more cynical than you…I really do think the Twins did this to block Chicago from getting Washburn (although with his record this year and in recent years, I don’t understand why he’s even considered that desirable, even more proof that M’s FO is ridiculously BAD). I think BSmith took a not too risky gamble that the M’s FO would still be in its stubborn phase and probably fell out of his chair laughing when the demand was made for a Blackburn or Slowey or whoever from our rotation. Seattle, I hope you are buckled in for MANY lousy seasons to come…you still have Silva, Washburn, Bedard (IF healthy?), and some old and expensive veterans. King Felix can’t do it all by himself.
Given Washburn’s salary and his performance, it makes no sense for the Twins to have jettisoned Livo and then be serious about getting Washburn through the waiver wire. They could have done it far cheaper by jettisoning Bass and moving Livo to the pen. The pitching out of the pen wouldn’t have been materially affected IMHO given Bass’ recent work. Washburn would not be an upgrade either.
Meanwhile the Sox continue to pound out the HR’s at home. They barely need any decent pitching the way they keep hitting at US Cellular. I keep checking their schedule wondering: when are they ever going back out on the road again? and when are they ever going to play a contending team again? They certainly have had a strange schedule. It’s great that they have to play at the Dome in late Sept.!
P.S. I see the bugs and/or the techies really did do in the system yesterday. For a second I couldn’t figure out why my name was missing when I decided to add a comment.
Ryan,
Ruiz has 3 years of options left
T, yeah Sexson would just serve the role Ruiz is now… DH vs lefties and RH pinch hitter. I guess he could play 1B instead of Lamb when Morneau gets a break from the field.
The bullpen clearly is where help is needed. But that said, if you asked me if I’d rather have Ruiz or Sexson as the DH against lefties during a playoff run, I’d go with Sexson.
I’m not going to campaign for it or throw a hissy fit if they don’t pick him up. But it’s a thought.
The deal fell apart because the Twins wouldn’t throw in Bert Blyleven, and I couldn’t bear the thought of hearing Dave Niehaus shouting “BOOF!”
-Mickey
Great post, Joe!
Sid, you are brilliant; you’re assessment of Gardy’s infield mismanagement is as astute as anything on this board. Now, why don’t you also tackle his mismanagement of the bullpen. (Like, why in the hell would he EVER pitch Jess Crain against a dead-red fastball hitting team like the Tigers??? And who every gave Gardy the idea that Matty G. is a late-inning guy?)
“Does anyone care to agree with me that Kubel needs to get it going this weekend (or will I be obliterated for even suggesting such a thing)?”
Trolling.
Since August 1st -
Jason Kubel - .250/.325/.500
Justin Morneau - .143/.309/.190
Doesn’t look like Kubel is the one that needs to ‘get it going’. But of course, you will blame Kubel for Morneau’s lack of hitting.
I think the Twins need to go with the hot reliever in the 8th inning set-up role. Neshek is hurt, Crain is HR prone, Reyes can’t go more than 2 or 3 batters, Bass should be gone for Korecky, Guerrier is guts and guile not power, and Bonser is , well Bonser.
Yankees lose!!!!!!!!!!!! Rivera with the loss!!!!!!!!
Oakland wins in the 9th, 6-4…
Tied for 1st…
Sox had late lead, bullpen failed. Twins back in tie for first.
Pohlad likes to save money,that a given!Very simple,fire the whole FO and the field staff,monitor the Trib blogs,they have all the answers??? Who would ever think it’s that simple?
[…] bookmarks tagged chad Sorting through this waiver madness saved by 5 others NxRageboy bookmarked on 08/16/08 | […]
Oh, and Roberts? He’s third in the AL in extra base hits.
ibanez is a player anyone who gets him will not be sorry. the sorry mariners have no clue now or when bavasi destroyed this team trading for and signing wortless players to high end contracts and dumping loads of young talen. and cincinatti hires the moron. good old boy network still in place.
BAVASI IS AN ASS HOLE
