Twins offseason: Day 2 musings
Posted on October 2nd, 2008 – 1:19 PMBy Joe Christensen
After filing my material for our offeason preview package, it was great to unwind Wednesday night with some postseason baseball on the couch.
I thought Game 1 of the Red Sox/Angels series was terrific, and I look forward to sampling all three games today.
Anyway, as we shift gears in our coverage, studying how the roster begins to shape up for the 2009 Twins, I just wanted to check in with a few quick items:
(*) The Twins have until two weeks after the World Series to decide whether to pick up the option on catcher Mike Redmond’s contract, but it’s all but assured they’ll do it. The option is for $950,000.
(*) The Twins won’t get any compensation for letting shortstop Adam Everett walk via free agency, but there’s a chance Dennys Reyes and Eddie Guardado will qualify as Type B free agents. A team that loses a Type B free agent receives a supplemental draft pick between the first and second rounds of the June amateur draft.
(*) Angels catcher Mike Napoli hunched over in pain after taking a foul tip off his knee Wednesday night, and TBS commentator Buck Martinez, a former catcher himself, said it’s moments like that which reinforce how amazing it is that Joe Mauer has won two batting titles as a catcher by age 25.
100 Responses to "Twins offseason: Day 2 musings"
Players I don’t think will either resigned or kept through next year are
Everett
Guardado
Reyes
Cuddy (Will only play part of next season then will be traded)
Gotta keep Redmond. But who is behind him, that’s gotta be a concern.
Thanks, Joe C, for your kind and thorough blog and reporting.
See ya around……………
Three up and three down for the White Sox in the first. I kind of hope they advance. If you beat the Twins, you must be the better team.
Projected Elias Free Agent Rankings:
http://tigers-thoughts.blogspot.com/2008/08/projected-elias-rankings.html
They have Reyes as a fairly comfortable Type B, and Guardado as nowhere near it. Sounds reasonable.
I always root for teams that ruin people’s/fan’s lives like the Cubs did to Steve Bartman. Cubs suck I hope they get swept. Let’s go Manny clap, clap, clap, clap, clap…..
What will they do with guys like Humber that are out of options? Does he make the MLB roster next year? Does he walk or get traded?
Redmond or Jose Morales is a nice thought at backup.
But next year, it’ll be Red.
Is Old Style Beer what Harey Carey used to get drunk on during the game and make an arse out of himself???
The Twins need to be patient with Delmon Young because he is absolutley going to explode for 35-40 homers as he matures as a hitter.
We need to supplement our roster with some experienced professional hitters to fill 3b and ss.
I still think we need Paul Molitor as our hitting coach. You can stick a fork in Joe Vavra as far as i’m concerned.
I think the Twins power dearth began in 88 when they traded Brunansky for Tommy Herr (has it been 20 years already, geesh) for some reason, they always put more cred on defense and so forth, and they have not been the same since
Maybe Bruno is still around and would sign a contract with the Twins over the winter,,, its the kind if thing Twins would do
White Sox luck out again. Wise hits a three run homer to give them a 3-1 lead. If not for luck the White Sox wouldn’t even be there today.
White Sox Luck:
1)The rainout came at home so it was made up at home after the season.
3)Detroit was falling into last place so they got to play the last place team.
4)Their final series was at home against a second level team. They got lucky and one from them.
5)The first place team lost and gave them the opportunity to tie.
6)They won a coin toss to determine home field advantage.
7)Their centerfielder made a bad throw to the plate but their catcher lucked out and got the tag on a guy with the worst luck in the league.
8)For some unknown reason they replace their Hall of Fame centerfielder with 600 home runs in a one run game. He lucks out and makes an impossible catch to rob an extra base hit and to not allow the Twins to open the flood gates and have a big inning just like last Thursday.
I don’t think Griffey would have caught that, but I don’t know. (LOL!)
Unoriginal Kevin Could we add some speed to the OF with signing “The Golden Boy” Dan Gladden
The Twins won’t get any compensation for letting shortstop Adam Everett walk via free agency
Except for the fact that Adam Everett won’t be on the roster anymore.
Amirite?
Gotta keep Redmond. But who is behind him, that’s gotta be a concern.
How is Morales healing? Twins seemed pretty high on him until that injury. Another year with Remond gives them time to bring somebody up…though they could also track down a cheap backup C somewhere.
I mean, it’s not like Mike Redmond was any kind of blockbuster pickup, but I think it turned out pretty well for the Twins.
T The Angels have 2 catchers I think. Maybe we could get one of them
Home run derby in Tampa Bay today. Longoria has two homers and 4 RBI’s in three innings. 4-3 Rays. Longoria is surprising, he didn’t do too much against anybody else this year.
*(kidding)*
I still can’t figure how they justified making Bartlett the team MVP…
They had a coin toss.
when you think about it 2 batting titles by 25 as a catcher is a good way into a hall fame caliber career. he will probably not ever get 3000 hits if he keeps catching but how many batting titles does it take? how many did tony o have? he needs to stay healthy maybe in a few yrs they can find somebody to catch and move him to 3b, i think he could play there.
if he only hit more homeruns!!
Also, needs to be mentioned that the Twins will not get any compensation for Nick Punto.
Joe is championing resigning LNP. Yuck. I say: (a) he would be overpaid as a bench/utility player; (b) if resigned, it is unlikely he would be properly used in the bench/utility role as Gardy absolutely, positively cannot resist inserting him into the starting line-up as often as possible; and (c) Tolbert can be the utility guy and/or starting SS for less money, use the money saved by not resigning Punto to help get a solid 3rd baseman.
Let me revise that last thought - Tolbert at 2nd, Casilla short.
Kay,
if the Twins let Punto go, with all the savings from the other players who are not in the team for 2009, if they are willing to take the payroll to 2007 levels, they will have $24mil to spend. This would take care of a good 3B and a good SS/2B. Tolbert would be a great utility guy.
MudCat…both on Longorias hrs were solo, so he has 2 rbi.
How did we not hit home runs at that place…it is tiny.
I saw someone on rubechat mention a minor league catcher who is supposed to be great defensively and a pretty good hitter, Wilson Ramos, maybe he could be up in 2010, maybe even allow Mauer to play 3rd a little?
Right Ben. But he just got an RBI single, so he’s close!
yeah what a bum…why can’t he go 3 for 3 with 3 homers? He is going to be very good for a very long time if he can stay healthy.
Ben
here are the 3 best catching prospects in the Twins’ system along with their age, league and this years numbers:
Wilson Ramos (A+),RHB, 20, .288/.346/.434 13 HR 78 RBI 103K 452 PA
Alex Soto(Rk) RHB, 21, .276/.344/.621 10 HR 26 RBI 40K 116PA
Josmil Pinto (Rk-) 19, RHB, .329/.394/.541 1HR 14RBI 14K 85PA
Hate to say that, but don’t expect anyone to the majors before 2012.
Catching is a must this offseason. I hope that the Twins will look into minor league free agents or minor league rule 5 drafts (or trades) to fill a depleted upper level minor league system
Dangit, sorry Kay it posted as you, stupid errors. I deleted your email out quick without even memorizing any of it.
Kay @ 3:30 is Ben
Punto….and Pinto…that would be awesome !
That’s ok Ben, these blogs have been acting funny lately. The other day I accidently posted as “JP.”
Rays up 6-3 in the top of the 7th.
Who would have thunk it - Grant Balfour to the rescue. Sox had bases loaded, 1 out in the 7th. Balfour came in and struck the next two out.
They gotta get rid of the cowbells which it looks like were handed to Rays’ fans when they came in. It is just so obnoxious.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
While I love the Twins, I have to respond to the White Sox “luck” comment made earlier.
None of those things are “luck” as you’d so believe, other than the coin flip.
Guillen replaced Griffey with Anderson because Anderson is a better CF now than Griffey is now (read: old). It was a defensive substitution.
The Twins were just as lucky to have THEIR final series at home, and if Cleveland was a second-level, KC was third level. No excuses for the Twins dropping 2 of 3 from the lowly Royals. Much as I would’ve loved to see them make the playoffs, if this team deserved to, they would’ve sealed the deal over the weekend. The coinflip and make-up game for DET-CHI would’ve been unnecessary.
As far as luck, was it luck that the Twins choked at home against the Royals so the Sox were given the chances to play more games?
Sox choked against Cleveland the 1st 2 games. Remember Royals had the best Sept. out of any team. Royals only turn into a good team come spoiler time, they certainly are used to that role.
Saying Royals are a ‘third level’ team come spoiler time would just be wrong.
Not that it is an excuse.
the season was fun…. and very stressful, but it has been over, too late to what if…. now is time for what’s next…
Sox 1/3 of the way to the offseason.
Sorry guys but Mike Redmond as much as we all like him should be let go. He only plays one game a week and he has 6 doubles with 22 singles and yes he has brought in a few runs as well. Yes Mike is a team favorite. However during this season Mauer has looked so tired and that is why the Twins should bring up a younger catcher like Morales from Rochester. If healthy, he could bring his power to bear helping this team to bring in runs.For example, in a 7 game period, Mauer could play 4 games and the Morales could play the rest. And there is one more facter here and that is money. The Twins would not have to pay Morales $950,000.00 that they would have to pay Mike Redmond…..
<ias Gardy absolutely, positively cannot resist inserting him into the starting line-up as often as possible
I wonder if that had anything to do with him hitting about .284 on the season.
Just wondering aloud.
——–
thrylos: Good point about being able to apply salary to SS/3B. We’ve seen the 3B FA lists more than a few times, but just for the sake of it, here’s the MLBTradeRumors.com listings for SS/2B (I include 2B because Casilla could be moved to SS if needed)
Second basemen
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Jamey Carroll (35) - $2.5MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.15MM buyout
Craig Counsell (38)
Ray Durham (37)
Damion Easley (39)
David Eckstein (34)
Mark Ellis (32)
Mark Grudzielanek (39)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Orlando Hudson (31)
Tadahito Iguchi (34)
Jeff Kent (41)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Mark Loretta (37)
Nick Punto (31)
Shortstops
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Orlando Cabrera (34)
Alex Cintron (30)
Alex Cora (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
David Eckstein (34)
Adam Everett (32)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Cesar Izturis (29)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Edgar Renteria (33)
Juan Uribe (30)
Ramon Vazquez (32)
Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Punto and Eckstein both Free Agents in the offseason? That’s going to be a Grit Bidding war! 
Grudzy nearly 40, and had injury troubles this year (otherwise he may be a Twin already), not to high on that opportunity. Is Tad Iguchi still any good?
Shortstops…there’s Orlando Cabrera. I think I’ll make him my 2009 Dream Pickup (for comparison, last year’s was Aaron Rowand)
So I suppose considering Thome and Crede are also potentially free agents after 2008…why not go on a shopping spree and buy up what would be 4 former Sox (three of which were in the lineup in 2008) 
Yeah, dreaming. I know. But there’s the list to get the ball rolling.
I think you meant Morneau looked tired, not the 2008 AL Batting Champ.
Agree that Redmond needs to be resigned. Morales is coming of a season ending ankle injury so who knows how he’ll play next year. Punto should be resigned. He is a valuable utility guy regardless of what other people say. Why let Reyes go? He had a decent year, relatively cheap and it would be nice to have 2 lefties in the BP.
Not sure who to root for in the playoffs. Particularly torn about the White Sox. While I don’t like the team in general, Thome and Jr. appear to be good guys and it’s hard not to like them. Hard not to root for the underdog Rays though. Boy wouldn’t that piss off the Red Sox and Yanks if they won. Have a smile on my face just thinking about that. And then there’s Hunter on the LAA. Wouldn’t mind seeing Torii getting a ring as long as the Twins are out of the running.
Just occurred to me there are prominent ex-Twins on all the AL playoff teams - Hunter on the Angels, Papi on the Red Sox, AJ on the White Sox, and Barlett, Garza and Balfour on the Rays. All are key players on those teams.
T,
I am not sure that Crede is any good. His fielding percentage this year was worse than Buscher’s (believe it or not) he never hit over .300, he hit more that 22 HRs once during the season and the last 2 years he has been hurting. Casey Blake is probably the best free agent option at third.
Cabrera would be ok, but the Twins should not give him more than a 2 year contract (he will be 34 in less than a month) and I am sure that someone is willing to give him more years. Furcal might be the best free agent SS option if healthy.
However… the Twins need 1 or 2 power bats (hopefully both RHB) and they are not them.
Here is my take:
This team has $25-30mil to spend. The only free agent who may be attainable and can make a difference (and I wish they signed him last year instead of trading for Monroe) is Milton Bradley. He slugged .563 last year (.999 OPS) and hit LHP at the rate of .341/.476/.651. He is 30, he is a switch hitter and would be fine as the everyday DH hitting behind Morneau. $8M/3 years might do it.
This would made Cuddyer/Kubel/Buscher/Perkins/prospects expendable for a 3B trade (Beltre? once the Mariners FO gets set he might be available and the Mariners if Ibanez goes, would have only Ichiro at the OF at major league capable level and they payroll impact would be a wash.)
So there are about $15-20 mil to spend. They should go out and get a quality start of the caliber of Lowe or Sheets. The money is there, they should do it (like when McPhail got Morris in ‘91)
And here is the kicker: if they find a 3B and a DH that can produce at high levels, they do not need a run producing SS, so I would not mind (only and only if they get a power hitting DH and 3B and a new starting pitcher) if LNP is signed to a $2-3 mil contract to be the every day SS. (and I better nobody thought that you’s hear this from me )
That’s what I would do, but I am tired of this bargain bin spendthrift philosophy
Wally, I’m about 3/4 in agreement with you re RedDog. For a very good backstop with definite offense contributions in the past, Gardy sure didn’t use hime very much this year, resulting in a tired Mauer to go with a tired Morneau. RedDog used to be a real clubhouse igniter and seemed to be more subdued this season even in that role…no “smell ‘em” type antics that I’m aware of. Maybe the high energy characters added to the lineup this year made it unnecessary for Mike to be #1 cheerleader.
The one thing he did well, at times even better than Mauer, was handling that young rotation. I loved the way he would pound his mitt, yell or gesture encouragement, etc. Hopefully, next year, Bake, Frankie, Blackie, K-Slow and Perk will be “grizzled veterans” ( :)) and not need quite so much encouragement.
So much of me says time to replace RedDog but part of me also says maybe one more year. But if he is resigned he should be used more than he was this year. If not, then they should part ways. It’s going to be tough…BS has to decide by early-mid Nov.on RedDog. Will they know enough about Morales’ health by then?
WOW, GS by Victorino…where is that annoying Brewer troll when I need him?? (HAHA)
Re: Redmond:
The one thing he did well, at times even better than Mauer, was handling that young rotation
yes and no… look at these splits:
Opponents’ BA by catcher:
Blackburn: Mauer: .296, Redmond: .264
Perkins: Mauer: .304, Redmond: .289
Baker: Mauer: .244, Redmond: .255
Liriano: Mauer: .253, Redmond .256
Bonser: Mauer: .279, Redmond .361
Slowey: Mauer: .244, Redmond: .394
And this is one (more) thing that frustrates me about Gardy. Not all pitchers are comfortable with all catchers, yet he insists to rest Mauer based on day after night games vs. who is on the mount… The Slowey case is a textbook example
What I mean is that Blackie started 33 games and Perkins started 26. Redmond started 32 games. If he only caught Blackburn and Perkins, it could have made a difference in a season that was decided by 1 game.
And the uber-frustrating thing is that the Twins manager and coaching staff have access to these facts and not using them (and then Joe C’s first proposed priority in the offseason is to re-resign Gardy & his coaches)
As the Phillies take a 5-1 lead on a grand Slam after the Brewers scored on a bases loaded walk has anyone else noticed that almost all of the offense this post season for everyone has come via walks with guys on base via walks?
Anyone else notice that this is not part of the Twins philosophy? Free swingers with little to no power in the lineup? Noticed that the Twins have not gone to the World Series since adopting this game plan?
Might be something to consider this off season Billy. Power pitching and patient power hitting wins titles. Come crunch time at the big boys level you can’t wait for the other team to make a 3-run error or for your team to piece together 3-5 hits in an inning. Pitchers don’t give in and when they do you have to make it hurt.
Thry, you know Gardy and innovation cannot and does not exist in the same world. I can’t imagine him thinking out of the box like that!! 
Thanks for the splits re Mauer and RedDog, although Boof being part of the stats might make the whole thing anomalous!! (LOL) Seriously, very enlightening re Mr.G’s management style. Do you ever watch First Take on ESPN? His management style reminds me of Francis the cat and his college football picks. But it’s probably unfair to Francis, he’s actually pretty good. Francis would never use the same routine every week to pick his bowl of food!!
Since you’ve been kind enough to find all the available FA’s, can you do same for starters and relievers?
Beisbol,
it’s a mouthful but here it is:
Starting Pitchers
Kris Benson PHI
A.J. Burnett* TOR
Paul Byrd BOS
Ryan Dempster CHC
Jon Garland LAA
Tom Glavine ATL
Mike Hampton * ATL
Rich Harden * CHC
Orlando Hernandez NYM
Jason Jennings TEX
Randy Johnson ARZ
John Lackey * LAA
Esteban Loaiza CHW
Braden Looper STL
Derek Lowe LAD
Pedro Martinez NYM
Mike Mussina NYY
Jamie Moyer PHI
Mark Mulder * STL
Carl Pavano NYY
Brad Penny * LAD
Odalis Perez WAS
Oliver Perez NYM
Andy Pettitte NYY
Mark Prior SD
Horacio Ramirez CHW
C.C. Sabathia MIL
Ben Sheets MIL
John Smoltz * ATL
Julian Tavarez ATL
Steve Trachsel BAL
Brett Tomko SD
Claudio Vargas MIL
Randy Wolf HOU
Relief Pitchers
Jeremy Affeldt CIN
Tony Armas Jr. PIT
Luis Ayala WAS
Joe Beimel LAD
Joe Borowski CLE
Juan Cruz ARZ
Brendan Donnelly BOS
Alan Embree * OAK
Scott Eyre CHC
Kyle Farnsworth DET
Casey Fossum DET
Brian Fuentes COL
Aaron Fultz CLE
Tom Gordon * PHI
LaTroy Hawkins HOU
Mark Hendrickson LAD
Trevor Hoffman SD
Bobby Howry CHC
Jason Isringhausen STL
Steve Kline SF
Brandon Lyon ARZ
Damaso Marte * NYY
Tom Martin COL
Julio Mateo PHI
Guillermo Mota MIL
Will Ohman CHC
Hideki Okajima * BOS
Darren Oliver LAA
John Parrish SEA
Chris Reitsma SEA
Dennys Reyes MIN
Juan Rincon CLE
Francisco Rodriguez LAA
Brian Shouse MIL
Rafael Soriano ATL
Jorge Sosa NYM
Mike Stanton * CIN
Salomon Torres * MIL
Derrick Turnbow MIL
Oscar Villarreal ATL
David Weathers CIN
Dan Wheeler TB
Dave Williams NYM
Matt Wise NYM
Jay Witasick TB
Kerry Wood CHC
* = club or player option
Thry, outstanding point about where that one win coulda been squeezed out. I’ll tell you I do wonder what scouting reports the Twins get and do they read them?
Case in point: I have the ESPN Inside subscription which gives you access to scouting reports. They also do a daily 3 Things to watch for in that day’s games. During that ugly Seattle series, they highlighted Ichiro’s tendencies to exploit to get him out. I can’t tell you how close I came to murdering my TV by throwing some large, heavy object in its direction when they kept IBBing Ichiro to face Raul “thanks Twins for making me the player of the week/month” Ibanez.
Not only did they keep putting on a speedy guy that distracted the pitcher but it really looked like they didn’t have a subscription to ESPN Insider!!
Beisbol,
the Twins are a few years behind as advanced scouting goes… have you noticed the 1000+ page 3 ring binders that Andy and Liddle and Gardy are using in the dugout? Those are their advance scouting reports…
yeap, let’s extend their contacts for life
Wow, that’s quite a list.
Starters, for starters:
This is strictly gut feel, haven’t checked any stats. Of the ones not commanding Santana like contracts, and not eligible for the MASH unit, the name Jon Garland jumps out.
On to relievers…
Relievers, that’s an ugly list. Can’t get too excited about any of those guys. I floated a name out several days ago and didn’t stick around for responses. He’s not a FA but rumors are that Marlins want to part with him: Kevin Gregg.
Garland last year had a 4.90 ERA and a 1.505 WHIP; his career numbers are not much better. Sorry, I’d rather have Perkins and I don’t think that he is starting pitcher material…
3 ring binders: yeah, I’ve noticed Jerry White using one. It is pathetic. In the 21st century you’d think they’d have wireless laptops or something.
Not a problem. I’d prefer keeping our entire rotation but somebody above suggested getting at least one veteran arm. I’m not in the move Perk camp at all. He definitely needs to improve his focus or whatever his problem is post-5th inning but to have 5 guys (and I include Liriano as a sub for Livan in this stat, even if it was at the AAA level) who won in double digits most teams would be ecstatic about.
The Twins have the best manager is baseball and you people are talking crap? Cause he only got a team of no - one’s (besides the obvious Morneau, Mauer, Nathan) to within one game of the division, yeah. let’s get rid of him. Wow
Back to Gardy (and coaches):
I was thinking about what challenge to throw out to all the Gardy apologists on these blogs. Here it is:
Since it’s inevitable that he and crew will be resigned maybe for long term contracts, here is the performance component that should be part of those contracts:
1) Win a series at new Yankee Stadium.
Win a series at Fenway Park.
If the young Rays can win there, the manager should not be getting a deer in the headlights effort from the team.
2) Get into a WS. For now I’m willing to exclude an actual WS win. That would be the next incentive level.
That’s it. Until he does those two things, he’s not even close to being a top 5 manager. If he ever actually won a WS with the sort of team Pohlad fields, then yes he’d be a top 3 manager.
I thought these ‘08 numbers were intersting to show how Torii Hunter is not only overrated but way overpaid.
HUNTER 551 ab’s / .278 / 21hr / 78 rbi’s / ob% .344 / slug .466 / 19 stolen bases. KUBEL 463 ab’s / .272 / 20hr / 78 rbi’s / ob% .335 / slug .471 / 1 stolen base. I know Hunter is still a good defender but it’s amazing how Kubel’s numbers were almost identical in 88 less at bats.
Twins sure could have used Grant Balfour this season. Great outing today. I can’t believe the Twins gave up on this guy after one arm problem.
Not enough time for challenges… I’d like the Twins to win it all sometime soon, so I’d rather not have Gardy around much longer…
As far as his apologists go, just a reminder about his bleak post season record esp. in a year where the Twins where the favorite (2006, here is the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2610409
)
and as far as the performance of the Twins this season goes, twinkiefan, some of use using statistical analysis of several parameters, predicted that this team will win the central with 89 wins (and yes that would have made it happen).
Gardy has to go for this team to win, it is as simple as that…
Joe, are the Twins seriously considering Cabrera? Punto had a better average, on-base average, and slugging average than Cabrera this year, and Cabrera’s numbers were right in line with his career numbers. Also, Punto had a better range factor at SS and only slightly worse fielding percentage (which was still above average). I’m sure he will ask for big bucks and several years since he happened to play on good teams the last few years and made the playoffs, so he gets labeled as a winner. I hope his pathetic run-in with Grant Balfour today turned the Twins off him. They should be looking at Orlando Hudson. He’ll only be 31, he’s a great hitter, a good fielder, and a great teammate. They then can put Casilla at his natural position, shortstop.
“and as far as the performance of the Twins this season goes, twinkiefan, some of use using statistical analysis of several parameters, predicted that this team will win the central with 89 wins (and yes that would have made it happen).
Gardy has to go for this team to win, it is as simple as that…”
While I don’t like several of Gardenhire’s decisions, this is perhaps one of the silliest things I have read on the boards in a while.
You can use all the statistical analysis that you like - and I would be interested in seeing it - to try and predict how many wins it is going to take to win the AL Central. However, I would assume that WAY too much luck comes into play for your analysis to mean much.
As for Gardenhire, since we don’t have a time machine we will never know how the Twins would have performed under a different manager. But I would say that 4 division championships in 7 years would be pretty strong evidence against your claim.
Thrylos, Gardy is going to finish in the top 3 for Manager of the Year for the fourth time in his career. Yeah, sounds like a guy that should be fired. And as far as playoffs, the Twins have been the favorite in exactly one of those playoff series. There are plenty of good managers out there that have had their teams struggle in the postseason. I suppose you would want to fire Mike Scioscia or Bobby Cox.
Thrylos, the link to support your contention Gardy is an inferior manager is specious at best. It shows that the Yanks were as popular a pick that year but they didn’t win either. Are we to believe that Torre is also an incompetent manager? People will always disagree with a manager’s decisions during the season. But unless there are consistent instances of gross mismanagement, arguing the merits of one manager over another is purely a matter of personal preferences. Making a blanket statement of Gardy having to go for the Twins to win is impossible to support in any meaningful way.
SoCal, ummm, I do believe Scioscia and Cox both have WS rings.
I would second SoCal re ODog - Orlando Hudson. Twins type 2B - plays hard, GG defense, decent offense.
Beisbol-a-GO-GO :
It took Bobby Cox 8 years to even get to the playoffs. 11 years before he won a League Championship. 14 years to win a World Series. Looks like Gardy has some time…
Can’t wait until the spring. But I will have to…
At least the Twins didn’t choke as hard as the cubs. Goodness…
How about Mark Ellis for 2B? I’m pretty sure he’s a free agent this winter. Then the Twins could move Alexi to SS.
Pete, but Bobby Cox didn’t have an MVP, Batting Champion, Cy Young winner, and best closer in the game on his team in those 8 prior years.
Give those tools to Trey Hillman, he finishes in the top 3 of Manager of the Year 3 out of 4 years.
If the twins want to score 900 runs next year, all they have to do is have manny bat behind Morne.
1. Span
2. Mauer
3. Morneau
4. Manny
Are you freaking kidding me? Four guys in a row with an OBP around .400? Wow.
And Trey Hillman finished a game out of last place. He sure did well during that 10 game losing streak that was probably spurred on by his team being no-hit by Lester.
Also, why do people keep calling Nick Punto a “utility” player. From my small brain understanding, a utility player is someone that has a weak bat, does not hit for power, comes off the bench and plays any position at any time in a defensive pinch, or to strengthen the defense in late innings. Granted Punto has a weak bat and can’t hit for power, and also he can play multiple positions, Nick Punto has been a starter the past 3 years, thus he is not a utility player. Utility players do not start 90 out of 95 games to end a season, however, utility players do normally end up with about 28 RBI’s in a year, so Punto does have that aspect going for him as a utility player. So maybe I am wrong.
I think the season was good in one respect and that was to get experience for the young pitching. They had good games and they struggled in others, hopefully they learned how to pitch and use their strengths. The Twins have the nucleus of a decent starting staff and with some changes in the bullpen I think the staff in general will be fine, as long as they get rid of the dead weight (I’ll let you decide who that is)
I think the Twins will find a different role for Cuddyer next year, on occasion he will be DH against left handers, rotate in right field as well and play first base on occasion to give Justin a breather and a day off now and then. Justin was just plain worn down by that 163rd game and he doesn’t have to play in every game! I think they can get enough work for all five outfielders and thus have some decent players on the bench as well.
I think the Twins need another righthanded hitter. They did very well this despite getting not much from Young and nearly nothing from Cuddyer. Both of those guys should be much better next year.
Making a blanket statement of Gardy having to go for the Twins to win is impossible to support in any meaningful way.
But thrylos I believe was the one who invented the “Losses By Manager” stat.
It’s a great statistic, as it’s completely based on the viewer’s opinion. Thus it can never be inaccurately marked.
Of course, when asked to generate a “Wins by Manager”, these same posters stuck their fingers in their ears and began to chant “La la la la la”
Redmond is perfect for the way the Twins use a backup catcher. You’re not going to take a young stud from your system and bring him up to sit behind Mauer. Ramos (great expectations are for Ramos, not Morales)has to play. Redmond knows his role and does it well.He would get snapped up quicker than you can believe if the Twins did not resign him. Also, if they bring a catcher up next year it will be Butera, for his defensive play. He will be the next backup.
As for Punto, he will be back. He still has too much value in his role (call it what you want). His time will come when they release him like they did Al Newman, but it won’t be next season.
As for Bartlett winning the Ray’s team MVP honors, it goes to show that numbers don’t mean everything. Anyone who has been part of a team that has a solid leader, knows there is value to a guy who comes prepared and ‘plays the game the right way.’ Rays’ manager Joe Maddon said Bartlett’s influence of how to play the game was instrumental in setting the example for a lot of his young players to follow.
To those who would like to see Gardy go:
He drives me nuts sometimes with his pitching moves.. But overall, he has done a great job,, its like trying to “correct” Mauers swing,,, sure, it would be nice to have more power, but why mess with success?
Second, I think, as Souhan says, that we need to make an all out effort to get Beltre, then if there is room left over, Cabrera,,,, But Beltre is the missing piece
I just read that LaTroy Hawkins posted a 0.43 ERA in 21 appearances after joining the Astros. Didn’t the Twins have a choice between him and Eddy Guardado? Maybe we signed the wrong one!
That whole Hawkins thing was essentially the “lightning in a bottle” move that has burned the Twins the last few years.
To put it in perspective:
In 33 appearances (41 innings) with the Yankees, LaTroy put up a 5.71 ERA.
In 55 appearances (49.1 innings) with the Rangers, Eddie put up a 3.65 ERA.
Hawkins magically got good about as much as Eddie magically got bad.
MudCat - Yankees would not trade him to the Twin’s, he was never a option
I say keep Redmond for 1 more year, and let LNP go. He is going to cost too much for a utility player. But the Twins are just a few players away from being a real contender. I’ve said this before and I know it’s a pipe dream, but they need a trade. Colorado is looking for pitching and they want to trade off a few players that fit what the Twins need. First off, Matt Holliday, the right handed power hitter to go between the M&M boys. And then there is Garrett Atkins that is also right handed and would hit behind Morneau.
To get this, I see a 7 for 2 player trade. The Twins have a glutton of pitching both at the majors and on the farm. So you send this…(Majors) Delmon Young, Brian Buscher, Nick Blackburn and Boof Bonser, (AAA) Brian Duensing, Garrett Jones and lastly (AA) Jeff Manship. I know that is alot, but I think the roster would be set for awhile then.
Batting Order: RF-Span, C-Mauer, LF-Holliday, 1B-Morneau, 3B-Atkins, DH-Kubel, 2B-Tolbert, SS-Casilla and CF-Gomez.
Bench: BC-Redmond, INF-Harris, INF-Macri, OF-Cuddyer and OF-Pridie
Starters: Baker, Liriano, Slowey, Perkins and Humber
Bullpen: Nathan, Neshek, Crain, Breslow, Mijares and Guerrier (back in the long relief role).
This still leaves you with guys at AAA for injury replacements, i.e., Mulvey, McDonald, Machado, Korecky.
I know that is alot of pitching to give up, but the Twins are still loadedwith guys. Now if there are like 3-4 injuries to starters that take most of the season, well, that would hurt any team.
As for Bartlett winning the Ray’s team MVP honors, it goes to show that numbers don’t mean everything.
Fair enough. But I find it funny that people use that as some kind of proof that losing Bartlett was some major blow.
Could you imagine if the Twins organization and Minnesota press decided to name Punto the Twins MVP?
It’s pretty much the same thing. A spunky middle infielder with a so-so bat that is popular amoung the players and is an example of playing hard all the time.
MudCat - Yankees would not trade him to the Twin’s, he was never a option
I forgot about that, but yes. That was the case to. I think around the trade deadline the Yankees/Twins were nipping at each others heels in the wild card.
I was certainly no fan of LaTroy as a closer. He did not have the nerves and blew more saves than I care to remember.
But as a set up man, I recall him doing a great job. I guess one has to count on recent stats more than then, but I dont loathe Latroy the way some do
To strict from personal opinion, I didn’t like the prospect of either Hawkins or Guradado being back.
Most of the options discussed for the Twins bullpen issues this season (at least from outside the org) felt like lateral moves.
so what do people think it would take to get Beltre? I am not asking if you think we should go after him, but if we did, what would it take?
AJ Pesh
In reference to people calling Punto a utility player, I gather their meaning to be that Utility player is what Punto’s role should be, rather than the way Gardy has been using him. Punto should not be a starter in MLB, unless there is NO other option. He seems to be totally clueless at the plate. His at bats are wildly inconsistent. One at bat he will be patient and work the count for all he’s worth, the next AB he may swing wildly at 3 pitches out of the zone, next AB he may bunt the ball straight up in the air, and the AB after that he may pop up a first pitch fastball. I don’t even think Punto himself knowss how he’s going to attack an AB before he is standing in the batters box. And his D is mostly OK, but his errors, for whatever reason, always seem to be very costly ones. I don’t know is that is lack of concentration in pressure situations on his part, or me magnifying his mistakes, because i admit, i don’t like him as a starting player. Is there a stat that shows how many runs a particular player’s errors led to? If there is, would somebody post it?
imo uggla would be the best infield option to go after. he is entering his arbitration yrs and florida needs to save money. casilla could move to ss. uggla would do everything beltre would do for 2-3 yrs instead of one. probably wouldn’t cost any more. florida needs pitching bad and we have excess pitching and it’s cheap salary wise.
You can’t keep Punto as a utility player. If you do so, Gardenhire will find a way to start him 6 games a week. For sure.
Red dog didn’t start many games because Mauer kept insisting on playing. Good thing for the Twins that he did — Mauer basically won tbe batting championship by pulling away from Pedroia et al in September. How tired could he have been if his average kept going up?
What I heard was, Morneau wasn’t just tired in the last two weeks of the season, he was injured (knee).
With Neshek coming back and Mijares pitching so well, I don’t think we need to do anything about our bullpen other than make a decision about who to let go.
The infield is almost as big a mess at the end of the season as it was in the beginning. Sure, we can move Casilla to SS, but would he be any good there? And Punto is a reliable SS, but doesn’t have enough range. We are too close to a championship club to settle for “might work”. Buscher’s clutch hitting does not make up for his bad fielding, especially on “swinging bunt” plays where he has to bare-hand the ball and throw on the run.
We ought to be able to trade for an infield worth having. My ideal infield would be Beltre at 3B, Jack Wilson at SS, Casilla at 2B.
my ideal infield would be a-rod at 3rd, hanley ramirez at short, and Dan uggla at 2nd.
What about Robinson Cano as a viable trade option this offseason? I think he would give us a very good bat in the lineup and also a decent defensive 2B. I do like what Uggla could bring, but the amount that Florida would want for him would be alot. I think the Yanks wouldn’t want as much for Cano, but hey I could be wrong.
To comment on Punto, I believe he is the best option for a utility player we have on the team. What do you need with a utility player? DEFENSE!!!! He is the best defender on the team at any position in the infield. He could even play in the outfield. He is invalueable, but again I could be wrong. Also Gardy won’t get him in the lineup as much as he has had to if they have a viable infield and guys who stay healthy.
GusRichards:
I think it’s a dream, but I like your line up!
I do think you need to swap Macri for a 12th pitcher though. I too hate the thought of 12 pitchers, but that is what they do now.
I think Punto will be this year’s version of Carlos Silva. Even at 31, Punto is one of the younger free agent infielders out there. A team that hasn’t seen him everyday, but only heard the hype, will offer him a big salary. I see Tolbert taking over Punto’s role.
Ken Rosenthal writes:
The Brewers’ J.J. Hardy is realistic about his future with the club, knowing he likely will be traded to make room at shortstop for Alcides Escobar, one of the game’s top shortstop prospects.
In fact, Hardy recalls being impressed by Escobar the first time he saw him, when Hardy was rehabilitating a shoulder injury at the Brewers’ spring-training facility in Arizona in 2004.
“(The Brewers) had brought over a ton of new kids from the Dominican and Venezuela, all 16 and 17 years old,” Hardy says. “I picked out Escobar out of all the guys. I didn’t even know he was a shortstop. But he was having fun, smiling, laughing. I gave him bats and gloves. The next thing I knew, he was the shortstop who was going to take my job.”
Hardy, though, should be in demand. He led National League shortstops with 74 RBIs, ranked fourth among all shortstops in on-base/slugging percentage and was third overall at short in the plus-minus defensive rankings at Bill James Online.
#1 need Left Side of infield & right handed bat
jj hardy ss Milwaukee 26 years old
2008 24hr 74rbis .283 ba
2007 26hr 80rbis .277 ba
