Offseason Targets: Leading off, Orlando Cabrera
Posted on October 3rd, 2008 – 3:10 PMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins have identified White Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera as someone they might pursue on the free agent market this offseason.
We’ve written this a couple times, and readers don’t seem all that enthused. Cabrera is a polarizing figure, to say the least.
The White Sox will play Game 2 of the Division Series at Tampa Bay today, starting at 5 p.m., so everyone has a chance to study him closely, while examining whether he’d be a good fit for the Twins.
In the meantime, I dusted off my old “Trade Targets” form to help sort through the particulars. This will be the first in an occasional series of Offseason Targets for the Twins.
Name: Orlando Cabrera, White Sox SS
Basics: He turns 34 on Nov. 2. Bats R, Throws R. 5-11, 165 lbs. Born in Cartegena, Colombia. Originally signed by the Montreal Expos in 1993. The White Sox acquired him from the Angels for pitcher Jon Garland last November.
Stats: Batted .281/.334/.371 with 8 home runs and 57 RBI this year. He scored 93 runs. He played in 161 games. His career OPS+, which adjusts for park and league averages, is 86. (Nick Punto had an OPS+ of 96 this year, but his career average is 74.)
Salary: $9 million. He was in the final year of the four-year, $32 million deal he signed with the Angels after helping the Red Sox win the World Series in 2004.
Good Twin because: He’s a two-time Gold Glove Award winner at shortstop (2001 with Montreal and 2007 with the Angels). He plays almost every game with the kind of intensity the Twins love. He’s not a power hitter, but he is a .274 career hitter who is tough to strike out (ranks 10th among active players with 6.7 at-bats per strikeout).
Available?: Sure sounded that way last week at the Metrodome, when this story appeared in the Chicago Sun-Times. The White Sox plan to move Alexei Ramirez to shortstop and let Cabrera walk.
Probable cost: I’m having a tough time predicting how much he’ll get on the free agent market. Guessing he could probably get a three-year, $30 million deal, though teams will have reservations because he’s turning 34 and middle infielders tend to get old in a hurry — see Edgar Renteria.
Potential Batgirl nickname (*You know, if she still ran the greatest blog ever): I think he’s already nicknamed “The O.C.” (As always, I’ll take your suggestions below.)
Odds this signing happens: 5-to-1.
(Note: It’s so early in the offseason, we’re just scratching the surface now, as we chronicle the Twins’ process of shaping the 2009 roster. We try not to scatter shoot with these updates, so while some of you might dream of Manny Ramirez in a Twins uniform, you won’t read about it here unless somebody from MLB actually tells us the Twins might be in pursuit. In Cabrera’s case, that’s what we’re hearing from multiple sources.)
179 Responses to "Offseason Targets: Leading off, Orlando Cabrera"
No thank you
If my choices are LNP or OC, I’m going OC. Doesn’t do a lot for me, but it is an upgrade.
Rather have a different Orlando: Hudson. Give him 2B and put Casilla at SS.
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I agree that I’d much rather see Cabrera than Punto, but I still don’t like his attitude. Maybe it would change in a better clubhouse environment, but he’s got a bad reputation. If the Angels are willing to trade him for Jon Garland, following one of the worst seasons of Garland’s career, and coming off of a .301, 100 run, Gold Glove season… that suggests trouble to me. Yeah, he could hit 15 HR and steal 20 bases… but the guy seems like an all-around jerk.
I’d rather put Casilla at short, try out Hughes at second (with Tolbert as a backup there), and then try to get an everyday third baseman. I know the usual suspects include Beltre, Atkins, and Kouzmanoff… but Kouz finished the year with a .299 OBP, Atkins can’t hit away from Coors, and the M’s are asking for Bill Smith’s first-born grandson it seems like.
Any chance that with their bullpen in disarray, the Cards would be willing to move Troy Glaus for a package surrounding one of our relievers? What if we moved Crain and a prospect for him?
Or, if Glaus opts out of his deal (he does have a player option), could we pursue him on the free agent market?
Why does nobody seem to think that Nick Punto doesn’t deserve to be our opening day shortstop next year? Did he not prove this season that he deserves to be there for defensive reasons, and despite his lack of power or RBI totals, I will take a Nick Punto hitting .280-.285 with his intangibles over the clubhouse cancer that Orlando Cabrera has the potential to be.
Why does everybody* seem to think that Nick Punto doesn’t deserve to be our opening day shortstop next year? Did he not prove this season that he deserves to be there for defensive reasons, and despite his lack of power or RBI totals, I will take a Nick Punto hitting .280-.285 with his intangibles over the clubhouse cancer that Orlando Cabrera has the potential to be.
No thanks.
Cabrera is a loud mouth who REALLY isn’t worth 10 million dollars.
Why not put Casilla at short and Harris at second? That’s the best option.
But Joe, have you heard anything on what Dan Uggla? The Marlins are having a huge firesale once more, and even though Uggla is arbitration eligible this year, he’d be worth the trade, if we could resign him.
I like the idea of Luke Hughes at 2nd or 3rd, but trading for a power right and maybe signing a middle infielder might be the best option, whether or not it means giving up Perkins.
“Why does everybody* seem to think that Nick Punto doesn’t deserve to be our opening day shortstop next year”
because quite simply he doesn’t, he is approaching the age when his defensive skills(overhyped or not) will start to erode he makes mental errors at crucial times that 10 year veterans should not make
SS is a position that is open to be upgraded to add more offense
**righthander
Don’t want no part of Cabrera, especially at $8-9 million a year. He’s on the decline and i think over a full season Punto will put up better numbers then him next season….probably plays better defensively at this point as well.
Like someone mentioned, move Casilla to short and go after a 2B like Hudson….who’s still a good hitter, good clubhouse guy and would come alot cheaper.
Hey Joe, what do you see the Twins doing as far as Cuddyer goes? Span, Gomez and Young seems like the outfield to build on….does Cuddyer go back to 3rd or is a trade in the future?
Someone would say to trade Young, but unless your getting a stud 3B in return it’d be stupid to give up a guy with his talent.
Ole,
It’d be stupid to give up on a guy with his talent, period. Regardless of the return.
34 and 30 million?
Better put the odds at a million to one.
“Ole” I see the twins getting rid of Cuddy for some minor league help in the bullpen and then saving the money from not having to pay him and redirecting that $$$ into the new balllpark. Just my opinion
On a scale of 1-10, my interest in Orlando Cabrera would be 1… it would be zero if it was more than one year and more than about $8 million. (which it will be)
SethSpeaks I agree 100% with you regarding the OC deal I also am even less interested in an old soon to be washed up Beltre
I read Milwaukee may trade JJ Hardy.
Go for him.
Did you see Cabrera get kick up dirt at home plate and get into it with former Twin Grant Balfour.
Cabrera will wreck the chemistry on this team for sure!!
I heard a rumor on espn.com that Wright and reyes may be available from the Mets. We should try and get Wright and get rid of Cuddy and with the money saved from Cuddy’s contract give it to Wright and add a little bit. Just a thought
Nah they can Keep O.C and his big mouth, Punto deserves the job at short, and hes cheaper, go after a quality 3b not a loud mouth clubhouse wrecker
Anyone but Punto at shortstop sounds good to me. And what’s the negativity about his attitude? Maybe the Twins need someone in the dugout that is not ho-hum like the Mauers and Morneaus. Punto should not even be re-signed since we have Tolbert as utility guy. Harris would be on the bench also as utility, but at least he provides some pop off the bench in case we need a late inning hit or RBI, not a weak grounder hit to the SS for a double play.
How about Rafael Furcal?
David Wright is available??? We have $$$ just cut cuddy and use some of that and a little extra and get Wright
Does everyone that wants Punto as a starter really have that bad of a memory? He batted .210 in 2007 and played in 150 games as our starting 3B. That was horrific. Do we really want that again? Punto has shown he can step in and play, but handing him the job is a horrible decision. Face it, in big situations he fails. 25 RBI’s in 2007 and 28 last year. Gomez as a lead-off and 9 hitter had 59 RBI’s last year!
David Wright and Jose Reyes are untouchable, let’s get back to reality
Janet ESPN has it that they are available. We have more pitchers to give them
jimmy, I bet my life savings (pretty good loot) they are not traded in the off season
Hmmmmm. I wonder who some of the big name players to be traded this offseason are?
Rumor has the Yankees may trade Robinson Cano for a Center fielder and Pitching
Why on Earth are we worrying about shortstops when we have Tolbert and Punto? GET A THIRD BASEMAN, YOU DOPES!
Alright how about Dan Uggla from the Marlins to play 3rd.
Hopefully Punto will not be the starting SS next year. Orlando Hudson would be a good addition at 2B and move Alexi to SS, but he will mostly likely be too expensive for the Twins front office. I think a guy like Mark Ellis is the kind of guy the Twins would go after, great fielder and average batting skills.
Jimmy Bee- great real man, the mets arent going to trade Wright or Reyes. Why would they? plus it would take the Twins trading about the whole farm system to get either one of them.
I would much rather sign Furcal than Cabrera. Also how about Robinson Cano for Denard Span?
David Wright or Dan Uggla would be awesome but please for the love of god no Beltre or OC. Please this team is driving me crazy. We get rid of Torii which was the bat we needed and now we want another power hitter to essentially replace the power he used to put up. I dunno. Cheap Twins
As I’ve said in other blogs on the website, I don’t want much to do with Cabrera at all. While I think the position needs to be addressed somehow, if it came down to it, I would rather start Nick Punto than Orlando Cabrera. Punto put up better numbers than Cabrera this year, and will come MUCH cheaper.
If I’m the Twins this winter, I’m looking at doing one thing: adding more power.
Adding more power is important for two reasons. One, there’s no way we can expect the Twins to hit .305 with RISP again next year. Statistically, it just doesn’t make sense - it was 18 points higher than the next best average in the league. To keep the same run production, they’ll need to turn some of the singles and doubles they hit last year into home runs - about 30-40 of them, which would still leave them less than league-average.
Secondly, they’re moving into an outdoor ballpark in 2010. The ground ball and speed game won’t work as well outside on natural grass and dirt as it does in the Dome. Also, the field dimensions are a bit smaller in the new place, particularly in left-center and center field. They’re going to have to show the ability to hit the ball out of the park once in a while.
They need power. I would suggest a reasonable trade to get Hardy or Uggla. They’re both in their Arb. years and won’t break Uncle Carl’s piggy bank.
Aramis Ramirez???
Wright would cost Gomez/Liriano/Cuddy if not more
How would R. Cano be better than Denard Span?
Rather skip the f.a. market altogether and trade for Uggla and move Casilla to short. Might cost us Young or Gomez AND a couple of high pitching prospects, but Uggla would give us what we need behind Morneau. Supposedly his ankle is healed.
Leave the third base platoon in place and let LNP come in late innings for defense at third or second.
Cabrera does nothing for me.
I have no problem with getting OC unless he truly would be a clubhouse cancer. I think these things are sometimes overblown. Delmon Young is no Mr. Personality, but did it really seem like he was causing problems in the clubhouse? Not from anything I saw or read.
OC is a definate upgrade over Punto, both on offense and defense. Don’t give me one year of Punto’s batting average as a defense. Look at thier combined average over the last 4 years and you will see a huge difference. 3 years at $24-30 million is a bit steep, but we have the money during these years, it is not an issue.
Brian Roberts for 2b
move Casilla to short, then we can live with the Butcher/Harris platoon
Shawn in Binghamton Why would the Mets want Gomez back? Cuddy, Blackburn and someone else
I don’t believe LNP would come back as a backup without checking out the market first
What do do with Cuddy?
At Home:
Cuddy RF
Gomez CF
Span LF
Young DH
On Road:
Span RF
Gomez CF
Young LF
Cuddy DH
All four of these guys need to play everyday and this rotation would be an upgrade.
Morneau ran out of gas. He needs to be rested say once a week. (Can Busher play spot 1B?)
Off season moves:
8th inning guy #1
SS #2
3B #3
Trade is more likely than a “big” free agent signing.
jimmy,
why would they only take Cuddy/Blackie and someone else for Wright?
I am all for trading for Uggla if he can be moved to 3B. Frankly, I see no reason he couldn’t be. If you can handle 2B, you can handle 3B as long as you have a decent arm. He seems to. He has not played it before, but neither had Brenden Harris and he seemed to handle it fine.
The problem is that the Twins main assets, starting pitching and OFers are not what the Marlins want. It will probably require getting a 3rd team involved.
Shawn in Binghamton good question. Hmm DY, Blackburn and Cuddy
Why would we want Wright if the Mets don’t? If he’s available, he’s available for a reason. Need to tread carefully, there. He’s got four years, about $47MM left on his deal. I’ll pass.
wright is 25 and signed cheap, we’d have to give em Liriano
Wright would be traded only for equal value to shakeup the Mets core.
OK one last trade for Wright
Get the Mets on the phone I got the trade that will land us Wright
LNP
Toby Gardenhire
and
Kubel
living in NY…. i honestly don’t think they’d trade Wright.
jimmy,
i forgot about gardy jr, the B-Mets see his greatness several times a year.
Shawn in Binghamton not even for LNP, TG and Kubel?
gotta get punto under contract first…. a sign and trade
Ok, ok, I may be nice and also throw in Boof but that is it. Take it or leave it!
Sign and trades are wonderful. Can we do a poison pill contract for Wright
I think this is an important offseason. The team now knows it can compete. They also have a low payroll. Do they extend Mauer? Extend Baker? Kubel? Do they trade an OF? trade a P for a 3b? The right moves could bring a championship. Doing almost nothing could also.
It will be interesting.
Twins should see if the Mets would take a package of Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey, Philip Humber and Deolis Guerra for David Wright… 
Some of you are dreaming too big. More like just stupidity…
Furcal? Hudson? That’s too much coin for the Twins.
David Wright is also a longshot, we’d probably have to give them Perkins, Cuddyer, with Harris or Tolbert.
Trade Span? That’s just unfathomable, stupid. But I like the idea of Robby Cano, wouldn’t cost a lot for him and we’d be the ideal suitors, we need power, the Yankees need young talent.
Furcal would not be too expensive if he’d sign a 1 year make good deal due to his injury…. otherwise he would.
It’d be pretty disappointing to see one of the ML best players come and go after one year, even so, your talking about 7, 8 million dollars.
It is better than 3/30 mill for OC
Casilla should be our SS next year especially since 2nd base will be more easily filled either with in the organiztion or in FA. I don’t understand why they didn’t try him in the bigs there this year especially since in AAA he was playing at SS. So, as much as I’d like to see them try it. I think they won’t go that direction. Something has prevented them from trying it this year.
I don’t want them to sign Cabrera unless he comes ala Loshe did for the Cards this year. One year deal on the cheap.
They can bring Punto back but only if he agrees to come back on the cheap (less than what they paid him the last two years) for no more than two years and with the understanding he’s the first infielder of the bench.
As far as FA’s go, go BIG or go FARM. Nuff of this off the scrap heap stuff.
And if you don’t go big… at the minimum try to lock up the Lirianos and Bakers and extend Mauer….
Shop a combo of Cuddy and Boof/Humber/Blackburn/Perkins for talent upgrade in the infield. RH bat only preferably with some pop.
Don’t sign a garbage FA pitcher, they are too expensive and are eating innings that could give some pitchers valuable opportunities to learn. If we move one of our pitchers, we have to see what we got in the minors before we have to make decisions on some of these guys we have locked into the current rotation. Going with 4 of the current 5 and having the Mulvey’s, Humber’s, Swarzak’s, Manship’s of the world get a chance to start next year would be great to see what we have in the wings. Keep the competition hot!
We have a nice stack of chips now lets see if we can push them around and take down the whole pot!
Seth,
i proposed your trade the other day… except for Santana back. I know the Mets might want to break up their core. Beltran is not of their system. How about Cuddy/Gomez and Perkins for Beltran. Its alot of dollars, but throwing in Cuddy would help a little. They’d get OF depth and a needed pitcher.
How about three years? Over the past 3 seasons - 2006, 2007, and 2008 - Punto has been a better hitter than Cabrera in 2 of them. On the defensive side of the ball - keep in mind that defensive stats are pretty hard to really measure - they are probably at least equal. They have nearly identical career fielding percentages at shortstop - .978 to .977 - while Punto has a higher range factor - 4.67 to 4.56 - and zone rating - .857 to .846.
Now, I tend to think that Cabrera may be the better hitter - at least more consistent - but they are probably equals out in the field. Add in the ability of Punto to play multiple positions, the age difference, and the costs of the two players, I see no reason to get Cabrera.
Punto’s only 2 good years have been contract years
I want the Twins to add power for another reason (but I do like the thought that the Twins won’t be hitting over .300 with RISP again)-because having more than 1 power hitter gives a team more of chance of changing a game with 1 swing of the bat.
Everyone here should be very familiar with this scenario. If not please refer to Twins at White Sox, 9/30/08.
Shawn -
“Punto’s only 2 good years have been contract years”
And Cabrera just put up a stinker in his contract year. Not really a good sign…
I woudln’t trade those four back for Santana at that contract! I wouldn’t want any part of Carlos Beltran. I would absolutely do it for David Wright!
To get Cano the Twins would have to give up atleast Span/Blackburn/and prospects.
I’d stay far away from Cabrera. Not because of character issues, but for the simple reason that his performance/value/age equation is not there…
We could improve our chances over the next decade by refusing to sign any free agent or to trade for anyone over the age of 33.
We would miss some opportunities. But, all in, it would be a good decision. We have made too many mistakes surrounding this one factor: Age.
We do not belong in this area of the market — we don’t have the capital to buy these guys for what they become — part-time position players.
Let the Yanks get these guys. We need to trade for 17-24 year olds. . over and over again. Take our chances on a few duds. Why? Because they’re UNKNOWN and CHEAP.
Remember, this is essentially an auction market. Name recognition is a BAD thing. After age 30, the past is no longer prologue. The only older guys you’d want to buy are teachers & leaders.
Cabrera is not that.
Every trade that was mentioned/Rumored around the trade deadline had Blackburn’s name attached. It’s great that other teams want him. That they see his ability/potential. That’s precisely why the Twins shouldn’t/won’t trade him. They know what they’ve got.
Whatever Blackburn does next season will be in a Twins uniform.
The only possible change you’ll see in the Twins rotation next year (barring injury) would be possibly moving Perkins to the bullpen if needed.
Why not move Casilla back to SS and let Hughes continue to be a 2B and be the long term plan there? And can the Twins just sign one good FA this year instead of a hand full of crappy ones with the same cost?
All this attitude stuff can be overblown. Where was Young’s “bad attitude this season? Bad attitude can often be a result of the club house situation you’re in.
I’m not against signing O.C. Though he wouldn’t be my first choice. The Twins may have him targeted, but that doesn’t mean they’ll make a serious run. Probably get priced out of the market anyway.
SS need is behind several other on the Twins list of needs behind 3B/BP and any other way the can get some pop into the line-up. IF and it’s a big IF you say that Cabrera is an upgrad over current SS options on roster it’s not worth 8 million more per season for a marginal upgrade (and that’s if you look past the personality issues he brings with him).
I did like the idea of a trade for Hardy that was suggested. Brewers need pitchers. A prospect and DY for Hardy or someone like Perkins and position prospect. I watch Hardy everyday and he’s got a great glove. 20 plus HR bat and a good team guy. He’s also young.
But no move should be allowed to happen until need number one is addressed, a HR bat (preferably Beltre at 3B). How about DY and a pitching prospect for Beltre. You add him to 5th in line-up and have Cuddy DH/4th OF/Backup 1st (easier for him to learn then 3B where he’d get hurt again and wasn’t very good) and all you’d really have to do is shore up the bullpen and I’d be happy. A Hardy trade would then just be a huge bonus if they can make it happen.
PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN BILLY!
Jerry,
O.C. has had the “attitude” issue in several clubhouses including the very Twins like one in Anaheim. He’s the variable not the clubhouse. And I guess you’ve misunderstood those who’ve pointed out Dy’s issue. Nobody’s saying he’s going to throw a bat at an ump again or get in fights with teammates (although he’d both before getting here), his is an issue if “coach ability” which has been referenced many times by Twins reporters here and on the radio this season. It also is fairly obvious to see for any observer. He may grow out of it (we all hoped he would this season) but a .290 free swinging, high strikeout total, not baseball situational smart hitter, who has shown a reduction of power is not what the Twins had in mind when the made the trade nor what the team needs. But I hear his batting practice home runs are real impressive. Too bad that’s the only place to see them.
kirby91,
this year
Young: .290/.336/.405, 22 y.o., $1M due next year
Cuddyer: .249/.330/.369, 29 y.o., $6.75M due next year.
Beltre is a free agent after next year. I’d rather keep Young over Cuddyer and give them Cuddyer and Perkins and a prospect or 2 if necessary
Not that opposed to Cabrera and I really like Furcal…
I’ll echo sentiments here and say “pass” on the O.C. If he is expecting anything close to 3/$30M then that changes to “no way in hell”. I can’t believe that anyone would spend that kind of coin on a light hitting infielder who’s 34.
WORTH REPEATING:
The right moves could bring a championship. Doing almost nothing could also.
The White Sox are coming unwound. I think the whole clubhouse is a cancer in the clubhouse.
The Twins thru away money last year on Lamb, Hernandez and Everett. Don’t due it again with Cabrera.
Save it for Baker and Mauer. Be Smart.
Why is it that you mention Hawkins or Guardado and everybody thinks that’s the answer. But then you mention somebody like Cabrera and everybody acts like it’s a huge mistake…
Heck, weren’t some of these same people earlier this season think the Twins should go after Gruzdy?
Considering Cuddy’s injury issues in 2008, what are the odds a team would actually be willing to take him on?
Especially if the Twins were asking for a guy like Beltre?
Hawkins and Guardardo are low cost risks. Cabrera is a 3/30 mill risk. That’s ok if your Hank Steinbrenner
Going after Cabrera does NOT address the biggest needs: power, 3B, power RHP for pen. That should not be the first or god forbid only move that BS makes.
I see SethSpeaks beat me to the idea of what to trade for David Wright (LOL), although I’d sub somebody for Gomez in his proposal.
I can see from some comments above that the curse of LNP will haunt these Hot Stove League blogs all winter until such time as he is either let go or resigned. Those who advocate for starting him must have been unconscious for the entire ‘07 season. He does OK only as a part-time sub. That includes this year and for the person who “corrected” me many months ago also ‘06 since he was not a starter at the beginning of that season. Many of us would prefer that he go away to save Gardy from himself.
I saw Blackie’s name mentioned above also. After his pitching performance on Tuesday (only one of the kids to pitch in a playoff type atmosphere) he should be off limits to trade discussions. He also pitched very effectively in the first half and didn’t get more wins due to the bullpen blowing leads or in the case of his first game (the 1-0 loss that bookended his last game 1-0 loss) was due to one mistake, a WP, and as the score indicates zero offensive support. It was only after he got beaned by Abreu’s line drive and started approaching new territory in #IP that he stalled.
T,
Re: Cuddy’s injury issues:
those injuries were not something that would be chronically negative, like a torn ACL. And, yes, depending on the team, there could be a few trading partners including the Mets and the Mariners each of which have only one OF under contract and nothing of note in their minor league systems… He is going to be 30 next season so he still has some value. Does he have as much value as Young, Span or Gomez for the Twins? Nope…
Beisbol,
I suggested that the Twins trade Morneau for Wright 1 for 1 about 3 days ago 
I want to throw out Brandon Lyon as FA RHP for the bullben.
I agree with all who have commented about a need Power 3rd baseman. Should be a right handed bat.Not sold on Beltre. Still like Uggla.He had trouble at 2nd last year. 3rd would be a good switch. Also the Marlins just signed Helms to a contract.
Put Tolbert at SS.
Thry, I know. Don’t remember if it was you but we also talked about Wright being a head case and you talking about maybe less head in a backwater like MN vs. the Big Apple. I’ll tell you, we’re all joking around, but throwing pitchers at the Mets would probably spring more in a trade than once thought.
Janet, I’d love Uggla’s bat but his ASG defense scares the heck out of me re defense as a 3B. I’ve seen other defense gaffes on BBTN so the ASG wasn’t just a one-time occurrence.
Here is another thought. The announcers in the Rays-Whities game today said that it was no coincidence that Longoria ties Gaetti for #HR by rookie in first playoff game. Gaetti was his hitting coach at minor league level. Why do the Twins not have Gaetti as a hitting coach?
Beisbol,
I agree Uggla might be a risk at 3rd.
I think it is worth a chance. Can always put him at DH. I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Kubel.
He’d be awesome though kinda young at DH. But first the Twins org. has to get over that more K’s will also come with more power.
Is Uggla a trade candidate (i.e. not a FA)? He’s older than I thought (28) and to think I do believe he was a Rule 5 guy. If he’s a trade candidate the Marlins will want prospects or MLB serfs since they seem to out-Beane even the A’s and out-Pohlad even the Twins. But boy do they do a good job of picking winners and developing or at least throwing them into the deep end of the pool even in the postseason.
Just read the article—No way should they go after Cabrera. Not worth $10 million per year at all. His upgrades over Punto aren’t that significant to warrant that kind of $$$
I don’t think the Marlins want to Pay him. Especially since they forked over money for Helms today. I am not sure when he become arb eligible.
I don’t think Uggla would be any worse than Buscher.
I think his defense may improve not have to worry about base runners, the double play and covering less ground at Third. I think it would help his pysche.
That being said by 1st choice would be Garrett Atkins. He did cover for Helton at first with his bad back. Maybe they would take a look at Young with Holliday also looking at big money, I know they want pitching, but I love all our young guys.
Janet, Lyon had a rough year this season but then I don’t think he’s suited to be or maybe didn’t even expect to be a closer.
Looking at his opponent BA for AL teams his record is not stellar.
Beisbol,
I watched him a lot the last 3-4 years. He was automatic in the 8th inning last year. The closer role is not for him. I think Anderson and Gardy can take care of him. When his arm strength is there (After the first 3 weeks of the season) he hits in the mid 90’s fastball and has a great curve ball
I would overly pay for him though.
When h
Sorry, I would NOT over pay for him
Agreed. Dbacks’ two big mistakes were letting Valverde go and extending Byrnes (thereby releasing Quentin).
Agreed! Love talking baseball.
Thank you.
SoCal and I have been lobbying a bit for the ODog. What’s your take on him? He’s going to be a FA.
JoeC, hope BS is watching the Angels-Bosox game with sound on…Buck Martinez just made the perfect argument for why power is needed in the postseason.
Over all I like him. He can be a bit of a streaky hitter, Sometimes I think he gets a little too over confident in the field.
He does have what 2 or 3 gold gloves? and rightfully so.
Definately like him a whole better than Cabrera, younger, better fit for the team. I think he is going for the big bucks though, I am not sure what is $$ value is.
I do like Casilla at 2nd alot.
Not sure about him as SS.
HAHA, Kotsay just did it again to Hunter in the postseason. At least this time he could only get as far as 1B.
Janet, he has 2 GG. Hmm, I just checked his stats again. He has a higher GIDP % by an entire % point than Mauer. I don’t recall where he batted in the Dbacks lineup.
Back to where JoeC’s blog started, the middle infield is not IMHO the top priority for BS moves in the trade/FA market. With Lexi, Tolbert, Harris and horrors probably LNP most of us hope he turns his attention to 3B, RH, and power.
thrylos98,
You seem like a very smart baseball person so it seems odd that you would even think of comparing Cuddy to Delmon in a year when Cuddy missed over 80 games. A little unreasonable don’t you think? And that fact he was injured is part of the point, nobody’s going to want to trade for him. You can’t just put him in there because you’d like him to go. You’ve got to offer Delmon because the only hook is that some other team will fall victim to that “he’s just 23″ logic He and a pitcher might work for Seattle as they lose Ibanez. I admit to being anti-Delmon but I also realize he is far better trade bait to another team as opposed to Cuddy. So like it or not Cuddy will be back either do to loyalty or an inability to move an injured OF/DH with a bigger contract.
Cuddy also has value to the Twins in the clubhouse and in a OF/DH/ and either 1B or 3B role.
Just my opinion but I think you need to focus on other options to be sent in a trade.
“Why not put Casilla at short and Harris at second? That’s the best option.”
Did you watch a single game this season where Harris played second? Let’s not go there again. I would definitely take Harris at short and Casilla at 2B however.
Dan Uggla? Considering what it took Detroit to get Cabrera and Willis from the Marlins do you think it’d take anything short of a monster package to pry Uggla from them?
And boy…LAA/Cubs. The two teams the national media essentially printed tickets for the World Series back in July and both are only a game away from being swept under the rug.
I’ve seen other defense gaffes on BBTN so the ASG wasn’t just a one-time occurrence.
IF BB2N wants to, they should could make Juan Rincon look like Johan Santana and vice versa.
Remember how ESPN was somehow able to make it look like Alex Rodriquez was the worst fielding 3B in history?
And one last note…just caught the recap of Sox/LAA.
Hunter may have injured his knee pouting about a call at 1B.
Classy…
what are the chances of the braves getting rid of chipper jones?
Some of these trade possibilities do not make much sense in my view(trade Cutty for relief pitching).What team would take on his contract coming off injuries?This trade mentality is based in fantasy leagues.It’s alot harder to make trades in reality than it is in fantasy leagues.
Joe, please say this isn’t true!
Not only is he a worse option than guys like Mark Ellis (move Casilla to SS) and Rafael Furcal as a player, but he is also going to be a Type A Free Agent this year!
So basically if the Twins sign Orlando Cabrera, they will be giving their biggest rival two top-40 draft picks this year. No way the Twins should do that.
its sure not heartbreaking to see both Chicago teams down 2-0
or Torris Angels for that matter
would like to see the Brewers go a little further
If Punto is resigned it has to be as a utility player period! You can’t have a regular infielder playing 150 games+ and driving in less than 30 runs a season. I’m 50/50 on Cabrera after what I’ve seen and read the past week. Orlando Hudson would be a great pick up with Casilla moving to SS. Uggla would also be a nice addition but it will likely cost us too much in a trade.
What about Melvin Mora at 3rd? Had a solid year at the plate and defensively; drove in 104 with 20+ homers batting .285 with a .960 fielding percentage, not the best glove but better than buscher. He’s 36 and was paid $8 mill but his production is very consistant. I’m sure baltimore would trade him for some young prospects.
Also, why isn’t anyone talking about Pridie as trade bait. His stock won’t get any higher and we don’t need him at all with Revere coming on strong.
everyone should stop knocking DY’s defense, his fielding percentage was better than Quentin and he led all Leftfielders in assists, 6th most in the majors.
its LNP for 10 times the salary
sts, “assists” and fielding percentage are about the worst 2 possible areas you could look at to evaluate defense.
Range is the most important, and Delmon is terrible in that regard. Extremely poor jumps to the ball. According to Bill James’ +/- system, the best evaluation system for defense, Young rates as one of the worst OF’s in the game.
Posted this over at TwinkieTown.com:
Doesn’t pass the Punto test
There’s a reason he will be auditioning for his fifth team in six years. If he doesn’t fit in one of the most volatile clubhouses in baseball, he surely wouldn’t fit here.
The Twins will likely sign Punto back (sigh). So anyone they acquire to play short everyday has to pass the Punto test: Will he be significantly better than Punto? In Cabrera’s case, the answer is no. Looking at his numbers, he’s just average offensively for a shortstop. Defensively, he’s above average. You could say the same thing about Punto. At 34, I think his best days are behind him, whereas Punto probably has a couple good years ahead of him as a 30 year old who’s never played a full season as a starter.
Guys who might be available and do pass the Punto test? I’ve mentioned Guzman. Don’t know what the Nationals would ask for him, though. He might be pricey. But there are more second basemen available and Casilla certainly passes the Punto test. So I would be inclined to move Casilla to short and sign Mark Ellis or Orlando Hudson.
Orlando Hudson would be an ideal sign, but the $$$ and years will be beyond the Twins reach. Not that they can’t afford him, but the $$$ along with the years will be too much to ask for a 2b at 31.
OC, no thanks!
I actualy believe this will be a quiet off season unless we can steal something.
I’m pulling for a Philies/Rays World Series. Gets rid of the White Sox and the two “favorite” teams in LAA and Bos.
Philies just cause they aren’t Manny (the MVP who dogged it for half the season), and Cubs (handed the Series title in January)
[…] The offseason starts early this year for the Twins, and the rumors have already started swirling. With shortstop a major weakness for the Twins, and the White Sox predictably being handled by the Rays, the first Twins rumor is that we’re targeting Orlando Cabrera. […]
Go get Orlando Hudson for 2B, provided his wrist is healthy, and move Casilla to SS. Hudson has 2 glod gloves, provides much better offense than Cabrera would at SS, and has a infinitely better attitude. He was making 6.25million this season….so would 35-40 over 4 hrs, for a guy who will be 31 in December, be doable? I think he’d be a great fit for the Twins’ style of play.
I see Cabrera as a solid option for SS next year. There is a lot of Bloggers talking about moving Casilla to SS and not much from the Twins since Casilla came up and started hitting.
I would suspect that would make the Twins big needs to improve at SS and 3b. Hoprfully the Twins can focus on a trade for Hardy and either trade for Beltre or sign Crede to play most of the time and let Buscher have some time there as a back up. These players will not break the bank next season and allow us to stay under budget, but it will alos allow us to front load a few other longterm contracts as well.
I think that SS is actually a lesser priority in the big schema of things. A big RH bat at 3B and maybe another at DH and a pitcher are higher priorities than a SS. If the sign/trade for those other bats, I could so live with Punto/Tolbert/Plouffe at SS…
I would trade for JJ Hardy. He is 26 years old. 24 and 26 homers the last 2 seasons and a right handed bat.
Priority 1 right hand bat and left side of infield.
JJ Hardy’s days are numbered in Milwaukee due to their rising SS star ready to play.
Let Punto go, Tolbert is a clone with more talent.
2B - Orlando Cabrera please. Casilla will be a great SS, let him show off that rocket arm. Cano would be a nice addition. Span for Cano and a prospect would work for me. If they want Crain then add another prospect.
3B - Atkins, Beltre are nice but I’d like to go after Ryan Zimmerman from the Gnats. If Wright was available fine, but I doubt we’d like the price tag. Likely it would involve Nathan and another pitcher.
The Twins may or may not resign Punto, but I don’t believe there is any way they are going to pay OC $10M per year. He is a known troublemaker, and he doesn’t bring enough to justify paying him 5x what they pay Punto. They should get a 3rd baseman who can hit both right and left-handed pitching. I would trade Delmon. We need to get someone young who can be here for many years instead of some washed up free agent.
Even if they did sign O.C. he wouldn’t get a lick of playing time if LNP was still with us. Also, the Sox fans can’t wait to get of him so that should act as a warning.
Even if they did sign O.C. he wouldn’t get a lick of playing time if LNP was still with us.
You know, the bashing sometimes has legitimate basis. This is not one of those times.
———-
Anybody else watching the end of Brewers/Phillies? Umps called interference at 2nd. So they rule the DP, then take the runners on 3rd and “home” and make them go back to their base.
How does THAT work?
They claimed it was because the run had not scored at the time of the interference.
The call in the Brewers/Phillies game was correct. Once you have an interference play the runners cannot advance. The correct call was to send them back to 3rd and 2nd respectively.
There has been alot of talk about trading Delmon Young lately. Here’s my 2 cents worth…He’s a young hitter with potential but looks like a future DH in the outfield. I’ve been wondering if the Nats would part with Ryan Zimmermann and someone just mentioned earlier in this blog. He’s a Gold Glove caliber 3B, has power and hits for a decent average. He strikes out a lot but would make a great #5 hitter behind Morneau. If we offered Delmon Young and Perkins I think we could get it done. Maybe throw in Harris if we had to. Zimmermann solves several problems. Gold Glove caliber 3B. Power hitter, RBI man, trims our crowded outfield by one player keeping in mind we have several hot outfield prospects in the minors. We would be down one starting pitcher but we would also be well served to find a COMPETANT veteran to fill out the staff (not Livan Hernandez). The thought of Ryan Zimmermann as a future Twin excites me a lot more than O. Cabrera or O. Hudson.
I’ll take him if it means we could say good bye to the Manager’s pet, one Nick Punto.
Hardy 1st choice.
I think Buscher needs a chance to show that he can be the ED 3B. His AB to RBI ratio was pretty good…not a lot of power yet but he has the frame to develop it. I would like to see them get a big BIG HR guy. One that comes to mind, and may be available, is Adam Dunn. Yeah, I know, I know, low average, but he’s averaged 40 bombs the last three years, he’s still under 30, would probably be great just as a DH, he would protect Morneau and would make Jason “failed experiment” Kubel expendable.
“Go Cubs Go..Go Cubs Go..Hey Chicago what’ya say?..the Cubs are gonna get swept today!”…..and the White Sox are right behind ya. You can put on the board..ah yes!
I live in OC. A transplanted Midwesterner. Watched OC play here.
We don’t want OC.
OK?
I think what we need is a 20-30 Homerun Hitter, well established, with leadership ability. Maybe past his apex talentwise but another Redmond in the support and character department.
In the meantime offload Bonzer, Crain, Matt G, and Reyes at a Rummage Sale.
After watching the Cubs get swept, the solution in Chicago is obvious.
Fire Lou Pinella.
Think about it. In 2001, he manages the Seattle Mariners to an almost historic regular season record. Then gets wiped out in 5 games by the Yankees in the ALCS.
Now in 2008, he manages the Cubs to the best record in the NL…and gets wiped out in 3 in the NLDS.
Obviously Lou Pinella is a terrible manager.
Get Aubrey Huff and Alex Cintron from Baltimore for not much and call it a day.
Use the $10M/year to get a a 3B, not someone who is only marginally better than Punto……….duh.
I’m loving this Sox/TB game…if only because of that bird that’s just hanging around.
Use the $10M/year to get a a 3B, not someone who is only marginally better than Punto……….duh.
From http://www.mlbtraderumors.com:
Third basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Casey Blake (35)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Aaron Boone (36)
Russell Branyan (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
Joe Crede (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Mark Loretta (37)
Fernando Tatis (34)
Ramon Vazquez (32)
Care to pick a few options? Casey Black could be appetizing. But I could see LA resigning him if they go deep into the postseason.
Trade for JACK WILSON!!!
He is not a great offensive player, but he will fill the hole at SS, and he is a gritty player with defensive skill.
Plus, it won’t cost too much to trade for him.
T: Didn’t the Cubs get swept in the NLDS last year, too?
I think a Hank Blalock would be a great fit for the Twins. He fits our needs (3B Right-handed Power bat) and hes only 28. Then we can play Punto at SS, Casilla at 2B, and Harris can spell both Punto and Casilla. I hear that the Rangers will pick up Blalock’s option, but they don’t have a place for him unless they’re going to DH him (Chris Davis at 3B).
I also think JJ Hardy makes sense. Milwaukee is looking to move him with Alcides Escobar on the horizon. As much as I love Punto’s D, having Hardy’s power would be great.
Projected Lineup (if we acquire Blalock and Hardy)
RF-Span
SS-Hardy
C-Mauer
1B-Morneau
DH-Cuddyer
3B-Blalock
LF-Delmon
2B-Casilla
CF-Gomez
Pretty solid lineup if you ask me!
T,
Lou Pinella is a horrid manager…
he should be fired
like Gardy
Good job Matty Garza!
Is there any reason the Twins don’t go after Furcal? I’d get Furcal, and a right handed power reliever and call it good. Just let Harris and Buscher platoon 3B, and let Young and Cuddy rotate RF and DH with Span moving to LF. Also Gardy needs Harris and Buscher taking balls at 1B all winter so we have someone to give Morneau days off. The offense can’t afford to have him breaking down at the end of the year again.
And finally on my early Christmas wish list I’d like the Mets to give us Santana back for Perkins straight up, while picking up his contract…
Ok if anyone says Nick Punto deserves to be the starting shortshop needs to look past the stats. He was horrible it seemed in the cluch situations. I’ve heard Hank Blalock can’t play third. Why not go after a proven player. Unless you want the Twins to sign a Sidney Ponson, Tony Bautista, or Adam Everett type of player.
You can love or hate Torii but his numbers are exactly what would’ve put the Twins over the top. Most all of these post are saying they need a RH power bat. Maybe like one that hits 20+ HR’s and drive in 70-80 runs? And a guy who comes with a little louder, not shy and loves the big games personality is what the Twins lacked. It’s understandable why he isn’t still a Twin but those numbers are the difference between 88 win 2nd place finish and 90+ wins AL Central champs.
A little bullpen help would have been helpful as well.
Blalock is left handed. Also can’t you just see signing Cabrera and playing Punto at 3rd. Wouldn’t that be just dandy!
Nobody mentions Beltre.
Why does it always have to be me all the time….
Cabrera will help he is a winner, when he went to Boston he gave them the fielding and top of the order presence that Nomar lacked, this year without his fielding and speed at the top, the whities wouldn’t have made the post season, he’s gonna cost alot, but he’s a good fielder and a more consistent hitter then LNP
Cleveland is considering moving shortstop Jhonny Perraulta to third base. It would be nice to see him at third for Minnesota but I’m sure Cleveland won’t deal him. Christan Guzeman (our old shortstop) plays a lot of third base now. Maybe he would be a consideration for us at third base. He is a right-handed bat and seems to have reasonable power.
I watched Chad Bradford pitch for the Rays earlier against Chicago - a very good side arm delivery. He has apparently pitched 17 scoreless innings for Tampa after being picked up on the waiver wire from Baltimore. I still don’t understand why the Twins didn’t try to pick him up then. Several weeks later the FO went out and picked up Eddie G but I think Bradford would have been a much better acquisition (shoulda woulda coulda). Especially since Neshak’s return next year isn’t going to be absolute (due to his arm injury recovery problem). I like the Craig Breslow acquisition though and he will continue to be a big help for the Twins next year I think.
It sounds like the Twins should try to work Luke Hughes in the lineup somewhere.
Incidentally, I hope the Twins send Carlos Gomez to one of the winter leagues to learn where the strike zone is and isn’t (and learn some hitting discipline). The New York Mets apparently did a poor job of grooming him to be a major league hitter.
I like Span in the Leadoff spot. He did perty darn good there. Twins would be better off finding power for the lineup rather than spending a bunch of money to crowd the left side of the infield even more on another slap hitter/fielder
Why not try for Jorge Cantu for Third. Someone the Twins could have gotten for a bag of ball’s last year! Thats a lot cheaper than Lamb. Would fit nice behind the M&M Boys.
I think Hardy is the best bet. MIL probably will need SP in return.
My top suggestions:
2B - See if they can get Roberts away from Batlimore.
SS - Orlando Cabrera (he’s my Aaron Rowand this offseason)
3B - Casey Blake (though I doubt the Dodgers let him go)
You have got to be shnitting me! If we waste $10 million per year for 3 years on a mediocre, aging shortstop we are insane. Lock up some young talent with that money, or spend an extra $3-5 million and get a power hitting third baseman. We also don’t need a clubhouse cancer. There is a reason he bounces around from club to club and nobody seems to want him.
blalock played in 65 gms this yr and 58 last yr. appears to me that after testing started he has become injury prone. not the first player that was a hr hitter prior to last yr suddenly started getting hurt a lot. he’s not much diff then buscher so what do we gain?
t: i’d rather they tried to get uggla and move casilla to ss. let buscher and cuddy butcher up the 3b spot.
Please. No more Punch and Judy hitters. Don’t the Twins have enough of those? Punto, Tolbert, Everett, Redmond, and (arguably) Buscher, Span, Casilla. Is it impossible for this team to address its needs with someone who can put a little fear into the opposing pitcher? Orlando Cabrera–clubhouse cancer or angel regardless–is not the answer. And while I wouldn’t go so far as Janet and bet $100 that David Wright or Jose Reyes won’t get traded, I’ll bet $1000 that neither will get traded to the Twins!
I like the idea of Gaetti as a hitting coach. The Twins may have had one of their better years scoring runs but I still think there is too much de-emphasis on power on this team. That said, I’m sure there won’t be any coaching changes.
And that Nick Punto will be re-signed.
Maybe, just maybe, they learned their lesson and won’t spend any money on a veteran starting pitcher of eroding and questionable talent anymore.
I wouldn’t be opposed to signing Orlando Cabrera to a one year contract. Maybe even two years. The money’s inconsequential…there’s plenty of budget space.
Add Beltre (for Perkins?), a good right handed bullpen arm, a free agent starter, and call it an offseason.
Chris has it right. Jorge Cantu is young, inexpensive, bats right and has averaged 23 hrs. over the last 3 years.
DEAR WHOMEVER - MY QUESTION IS AT THE TRADING DEADLINE OF JULY 31ST, SINCE MANAGEMENT KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO DUMP LIVAN HERNANDEZ, CRAIG MONROE, MIKE LAMB AND THEY SENT A RELIEF PITCHER TO BALTIMORE FOR CASH OR PLAYER TO BE NAMED LATER, WHY DID THEY NOT PACKAGE LIVAN CRAIG MIKE AND BASS AND MAYBE THROW IN EVERETT TO GET EITHER MORA OR HUFF IT WOULD SEEM LOGICALLY THAT WE WOULD GET SOMETHING IN RETURN. IF N EED BE THROW IN BOOF BONSER. OUT OF THE FOUR WE LOST WE WILL PICK UP AN UNKNOW PLAER FOR BASS PERHAPS A LEAGUE PLAYER WE HAVE NOT KNOWN OF . I UNDERSTAND THAT THE ABOVE PLAYERS WERE IN THIER LAST OF THE CONTRACTS BUT WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN CREATIVE AND ADRESSED THIRD BASE WITHOUT GIVING UP SOMEONE ELSE LATER. LEON
FURTHER COMMENTS WOULD BE AS FOLLOWS WE NEED TO ADRESS 3RD BASE AND SHORTSTOP AND SECOND BASE AND A SOLID RELIEF PITCHER. HERE IS MY SUGGESTIONS 3RD BASE WILL BE BUSHER/HARRIS WITH DANNY VALENTINO IN THE NEAR FUTURE, AND SS WOULD BE ADDRESSED WITH JJ HARDY AND 2ND BASE WITH ALEX CASSILA WITH TOLBERT AND HUGHES IN THE NEAR FUTURE. GO AFTER FUENTES NOW YOU GOT NATHAN NESHEK MIRAJES AND FUENTES AND KEEP THE 5 MAN ROTATION GO TWINS.
If we are going to dream then i would like to see us trade casillas, kubel mulvey and punto after we sign him to yankees for r. cano. and we trade Humber, perkins, aa pitcher, aa hitter to milw. for jj hardy. the lineup would look something like this: span rf, cano 2nd, mauer c, morneau 1st, jj hardy ss, young lf, cutty dh, harris 3rd, gomez cf. with tolbre t backing up ss and 2nd and buchser backing or sharing with harris. Get a solid rh reliver in fa.
The rotation would be lairano-baker-blackburn-slowey-i cant think of his name the young kid we got for santana and the bullpen nathan-neshek-marjis-breslow-crain-guerrier.
if they trade Blackburn for anyone other than a top teir player I will cry mutiny. he’s my new favorite pitcher (besides Baker) and gave us well over 200 innings AS A ROOKIE and had one effing mistake against and deserved that win against the Sox. if our dang hitters showed up he wins that game hands down and gives us a playoff berth.
If someone is to be traded, make it perkins (I like him too and would hate to part with him and his new baby and all, but hes a head case).
If Cano is around, send an AAA and AA pitchers over and call it even - just make sure the guy is back to 2007 - he did have a nice year last year but .271/14/67 i think he had isn’t phenomenal but could do wonders
And go get Troy Glaus if you can steal him away. He’s a vet with a nice bat and could teach a few things to our young guys.
I can’t believe some of you think to move A.Casilla to short. Have you watched the games? I like A.C. but his glove and defensive abilities would be a liability at short.
