Wednesday update: Street and Twins relief prospects
Posted on November 12th, 2008 – 12:15 PMBy Joe Christensen
Following up on some points that surfaced in our reporting on the effects of Pat Neshek’s injury:
(*) I don’t think the Twins will acquire Huston Street. I know they like him. I know they kick themselves for not grabbing him in the 2004 draft, when he went to Oakland with the 40th overall pick. That year, with a slew of extra picks, they chose SS Trevor Plouffe (No. 20), LHP Glen Perkins (No. 22), RHP Kyle Waldrop (No. 25), RHP Matthew Fox (No. 35) and RHP Jay Rainville (No. 39).
This year, as Street lost his closing job in Oakland, the Twins had hope of trading for him to use in a setup role in front of closer Joe Nathan.
But Oakland sent Street to Colorado this week in the package for LF Matt Holliday. Now, it’s a whole new ballgame. Dealing with the Rockies is not like dealing with the A’s. While Billy Beane was willing to move Street as a closer-in-decline, the Rockies will try enticing teams that need a closer with the thought of Street regaining his All-Star form.
From today’s Denver Post:
Street could eventually be traded to another team, considering the interest and needs of the Indians, Mets, Cardinals, Brewers and Rays for a closer. The Rockies have told people close to Manuel Corpas he still is the closer, leading to the belief among some that Street would be traded rather than be used as protection if Corpas doesn’t bounce back.
The Twins have a closer. So why pay closer prices in a trade for a setup man? It does sound like Street could be traded again this offseason, but I don’t think it’ll be to Minnesota.
(*) I know it probably surprised people to see a bunch of minor-league prospects listed as potential solutions to replace Neshek in the Twins’ bullpen. Here’s a link to how some of those prospects have been faring in the Arizona Fall League, where Jeff Manship has a 5.04 ERA, Tim Lahey 3.86, Anthony Slama 4.26 and Rob Delaney 7.04.
Let me be clear: The Twins could very well use the trade route to acquire relief help, and perhaps there are some lower-tier free agents with experience who could fill those roles to start the season.
I just don’t see the Twins making a big splurge in the free agent market to solve their bullpen issues, when they are confident they have great pitchers coming through the system who could soon fill the void.
81 Responses to "Wednesday update: Street and Twins relief prospects"
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maybe a package of cuddy and perk for atkins and street? doubt it!
i’m thinking they won’t do any trades of note this winter and wait until spring to sort things out. could be a lot of players sitting waiting for contracts that won’t come with the poor economy. it seems like a lot of teams wanting to cut salary.
have the twins ever signed a type a free agent?
Hmm, interesting note their Joe. I suppose every team sells their players differently, and I agree that we certainly don’t want to pay closer price in a trade.
If you got time, check out my post today about a crazy fan who has caught over 3,000 foul balls. I’m trying to get foul ball stories from Twins fans as well. Feel free to comment.
Good report Joe. I believe the Twins have the arms in their system to have a top bullpen in 2009. Grady and Andy do a great job of defining the roles for their pen pitchers. Mijares should not be a surprize if comes out and dominates as 8th inning guy. Look for Bonser, Crain, and Guerrier to be efective from the right side, along with Mijares, Breslow will be a lefty. Then they have a slew a talent to find whose the most capable and ready between:
Humber
Delaney
Lahey
Swarzak
Slama
plus many others.
The pen should be a great strength in 09
have the twins ever signed a type a free agent?
That’s a good question the only one i can think of would be Paul Molitor and i’m not certain if he was or not. The Twins usually sign typ D- free agents.
Why would the Rockies want Cuddyer? They have three outfielders with the addition of Gomez.
jama, Word is they are looking to move Gomez too.
Remember jama, trades suggested around here are usually of the formula:
“Bunch of guys I think suck” for “The guy/guys on the other team that are freaking awesome”
T says:
November 12th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Remember jama, trades suggested around here are usually of the formula:
“Bunch of guys I think suck” for “The guy/guys on the other team that are freaking awesome”
That’s the common formula among fans of all teams. Everyone wants to make trades but they don’t really want to give up anything good to get something good. That’s why blogs and fan boards are populated with fans and not actual execs who actually have a clue.
actually the cuddy for atkins trade started in a denver paper last week. i guess the guy didn’t clear it with t before putting it in print!
Maybe Punto can Pitch?
It’s a bit long in the tooth, but as a setup guy, Trevor Hoffman could be a solid option. Metrodome has turned into a pitchers park. Sign Trevor for this year and give him an option for next year. Trevor had an off year last year, but with the help of Andy, I’m sure a minor tweak and Trevor will be back to his old self.
Great stuff, Joe! I was looking at your note on that 2004 draft:
“SS Trevor Plouffe (No. 20), LHP Glen Perkins (No. 22), RHP Kyle Waldrop (No. 25), RHP Matthew Fox (No. 35) and RHP Jay Rainville (No. 39).”
it really illustrates the difficulty in drafting pitchers… Waldrop missed all of 2008 with shoulder surgery. Fox missed most of 2005 and some in 2006 after surgery. Jay Rainville missed all of 2006 with shoulder/nerve surgery. Perkins missed a bunch of 2007 with arm issues.
Add in:
Anthony Swarzak, who was a 2nd round pick that year, and his 50 game suspension, and…
3rd round pick Eduardo Morlan, who was part of the Young/Garza-Bartlett deal. he missed a lot of time in 2008 with arm problems.
And Street has definitely not been a beacon of health in his career either.
With so many teams looking for a closer, both Hoffman and Street are going to end up with one of those teams. Joe’s right about the Twins not paying “closer price” in trade to get a guy they’d use as a set-up arm and given what Hoffman has already turned down to stay in SD, he’s not going to sign with Minnesota for set-up terms either.
With all the supposedly talented young arms in the organization, I think you see who looks good in Ft Myers and be ready to make changes in April/May as players demonstrate who can and can’t fill the bullpen roles.
The primary need remains left-side infielders with some power. Stay on target and focus on those needs, Bill Smith.
“Look for Bonser, Crain, and Guerrier to be efective from the right side,”
In what alternative universe? These guys are over the hill pitchers, not fine wine that improves with age. The Twins better pick up JJ Hardy, Joe Crede and a left fielder and get rid of Delmon “Great from the neck down” Young and Cuddyer because with that pen we are going to outslug people ala the Sox last year.
Aaron K
Where did you see that the Rockies were looking to flip Gomez? Why would they even trade for Stree and Gomez if they are just going to trade them? I think your info is very incorrect.
T -
Just to let you know when I do things like that it’s mostly just to get a reaction.
Though I do think that a deal of
Perkins, Robertson, and maybe Dunesing could get us JJ Hardy.
as long as we never again see brian bass in a twins uniform.
From what it sounds like is that teams are making these trades just to have as bait when the playoffs come around. Look at Holladay do you think he is going to sign with the A’s after this year? Nope they are going to trade him at the deadline get prospects and start rebuilding for the future. So Gomez might be in that catagory as well.
Dan - Trevor Hoffman at 41 years old and the all-time saves leader, and possible hall of famer is probably not going to want to be a setup guy, and he’s probably going to need at least 4 million dollars… I don’t think the Twins will ever spend that kind of money on middle relievers.
Chris Johnson - The A’s are looking at the two draft picks that they will get WHEN they lose him as more than they would have gotten out of Street who is a failed closer. Holliday will help that lineup mature which is what they got him for in the short term, but yeah you are right… they want to trade him before the end of the season and make a killing on the deal.
That is why the A’s GM is the best in the business, and Bill Smith is a failure in the line of Kevin McHale in the making.
Count me among those that hope Mr. Smith saves his gunpowder rather than spend for relief pitching. If you can only do one thing, Billy, go get us a shortstop that can field and hit for some modicum of power. There’s no one coming up the farm system that can fill this need. No one, Billy.
chris, while the A’s will no doubt look to trade Holliday at mid season if they aren’t contending, clearly what Beane is trying to do is make a run in 2009. If they do, they’ll keep Holliday through the season. Even then, they would get two 1st round compensation picks for him. That ‘return’, either at mid season or in draft picks was factored in to the price he paid. Essentially, he traded three guys for either half a season of Holliday and whatever player(s) he gets in trade at the deadline or a full season of Holliday plus 2 first round picks.
I’m not one who is in the “trade for Beltre” camp, but if that’s what the Twins end up doing, it would be a similar deal. You’re getting Beltre for either half or a full season plus what you get in players/picks when you let go of him.
Colorado didn’t need the specific players they got from the A’s but by making an early deal for what they considered the best offer on the table, regardless of position, they allowed themselves enough time to flip some (or even all) of the guys they got from the A’s for players that do fit their specific needs.
Jama,
Here is the article that I saw Gomez possibly moving again from Colorado.
The Twins should dump Cuddyer and Punto, regardless of who they get in exchange. Cuddyer is a curse on the Twins and will only serve to bring them bad luck. Punto’s greatest achievement is that he confuses Gardenhire to the point that Gardenhire can never decide on who to play where in the infield. Gardenhire’s inability to focus on building a regular starting infield has hampered the Twins for years.
the rockies now have two cf’r that don’t hit any better then carlos gomez, carlos gonzalas from the a’s and willy taveras. it would seem they would trade one of them, gonzalas is a better fielder, has a bigger upside and is younger. i doubt taveras is worth much, poor fielder that doesn’t hit. the thinking from last week (rumors) was if they trade holliday then somebody like cuddy would make sense to fill his spot, and they have stewart (young and cheap) to take over for atkins. cuddy and atkins are the same age, about the same money and hit about the same. the twins have an extra of’r the rockies have an extra 3b, could make sense.
i’m not sure street is any better then what we have now.
Jama-
Ken Rosenthal reported the other day that the Rox were looking to flip both Street and Gonzalez.. only holding on to Greg Smith. I agree it does not make a lot of sense, other than I am not sure how many Willy Tavarezs one team can have.
I am assuming that is where AaronK got the info. It was linked on http://www.mlbtraderumors.com… so that information is out there.
I don’t think the Twins are in a spot where they want to bring in a “rental” like for the sake of having draft picks later.
While it works for the A’s…the draft picks the Twins got in exchange for Holliday wouldn’t be ready soon enough to make up for the hole left when Holliday leaves.
I would think following 2008, the FO recognizes that the youth on the team is doesn’t need to be supported by “rentals” and “placeholders”.
The Twins should dump Cuddyer and Punto, regardless of who they get in exchange.
Herb the schizo returns to prove to the world he doesn’t follow the Twins for squat.
Just a tip, Punto’s still a Free Agent. Just like he was when you posted this same tidbit of “knowledge” a month ago.
Is Jeremy Affelt interesting to anyone?
He is Crain-like with injuries, but he has a nice arm.
i guess the guy didn’t clear it with t before putting it in print!
Cuddyer was on the trade block withe some fans while he was still on the DL…which is about as riddiculous as those who still think the Twins can somehow trade Punto. (Who were the same people last offseason riddiculing the FO for not trading Silva or Hunter during the winter meetings)
Personally I like Affelt. I watch a lot of Rockies games and he has a very live arm. He would be a nice asset.
JimCrikket -
The Rockies are looking to trade Tavarez in center, Atkins at 3rd, and a couple of other players. So Gonzalez is probably going to be playing in LF this year, or next… Street has a good shot at being the closer in Col if they don’t trade him… and the other guy I don’t know much about, but this trade worked out pretty well with both teams.
I think a Twins deal with Colorado could be done, but I think the Twins need to put their effort into JJ Hardy instead with the Brewers.
good point T. You can’t trade free agents, and you can’t trade guys on the DL…
But if they have an opportunity to trade Cuddyer this offseason I think that they really have to look at it because they have 3 very young guys that can play every day in the league, and they have Pridie who can be a solid backup if need be, and 3 guys in the lower part of the minor leagues that could all be better than what we have now once they mature.
Wish list-
1. J.J. Hardy
2. Yunel Escabar
3. Any other good young SS
4. Beltre
5. Atkins
6. Kuz
7. Edwin Encarnacion
8. Any ML average SS (Orlando Cabrara)
9. Any ML average 3B (Blake)
10. An above average reliver
11. A ML average free agent RP
37. Resigning Nick Punto to start at SS
Ryan, you have Punto way too high on the list.
forget street he’s expensive and not even that great
call beane in oakland and get joey devine or brad ziegler
beane is looking for offense and i’m sure would love cuddyer
#36 was signing Mike Lamb to start at 3b
move cuddy to 3rd. and let harris be the SS
sign brandon lyon.
there.. that is the twins off season plan..
span-rf
casilla-2b
mauer-c
morneau-1b
cuddy-3b
kubel-dh
delmon-lf
harris-ss
gomez-cf
liriano, baker, perkins, slowey, blackburn.
so. let the games begin
By Tim Dierkes [November 12 at 3:20pm CST]
According to MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro, the next likely trade candidate for the Marlins is reliever Kevin Gregg. Frisaro’s sources say Gregg “will almost certainly be dealt.”
Gregg, 30, posted a 3.41 ERA in 68.2 innings this year. His strikeout rate declined and his walk rate increased to a dangerous 4.85 per nine innings. Gregg only really struggled in August, however, as he was bothered by a knee injury. He’ll earn more than $2.5MM in his last year before free agency.
Teams known to be looking for bullpen help include the Indians, Tigers, Twins, Rangers, Mets, Brewers, and Giants.
I would think Liriano would have to be included in any deal involving Atkins. But Liriano is kind of the Gaborik of the Twins. A great player when healthy, but has had numerous health problems over the year. It looks as if Liriano is finnally healthy again and getting close to top form. Unlike the Wild who played there hand way to long on Gabby and waited for him to get hurt to try and trade him when there is no market for him why not put Franky in a package to get us a very good third baseman. Our rotation would still be pretty solid without him. Plus you have a better offense. A better team overall.
liriano and gabby have no connection
liriano has had one health problem.
gabby has had numerous.
lets allow liriano to get injured a few more times.
and liriano for atkins?
i would jump all over that trade.
if i were the rockies
Ryan
Where is replacing Bill Smith with a chimp so that the Twins have a better chance of making a beneficial trade for the Twins?
ok.. one last note.
the twins will be fine..
our bullpen needs some help. heck, it wouldnt surprise me if we do not get any bullpen help and just let the kids pitch..
guerrier can be the 8th inning guy. specially if he knows that will be his role. mijares will be solid.
last year losing neshek really hurt us because the bullpen got all out of wack and no one was able to step up.. this year they know neshek is gone and its up to them to get the job done.
i can see the team going into the season as is in regards to the bullpen. and if issues arise. we flip some young pitching for bullpen help.
as far as the offense goes..
i mentioned it before
cuddy will be moved to 3rd and harris to short.
and that will be the twins offseason.
if nothing else.
i fully expect either cuddy at 3rd or harris at short.
no way will the twins get crazy and so out and sign or trade for the both of them..
harris/punto platoon at short.
or harris everett (if we still have everett we will resign punto)
we will probably get a 3rd baseman and let buscher spell him from day to do.
so. go twins
Trading J.J. Hardy to make room for the kid Escobar, and then leaving Bill Hall at 3B would be a supremely dumb move by the Brewers. They should move Hardy to 3B and get rid of Hall. If they do trade Hardy, it will be for a price. Either a solid starter or a lesser pitcher together with prospects or a starting position player, like CF.
JimC, I couldn’t agree with you more when you say the primary need is left-side IF help with power and Mr. Smith should stay focused on that. Of course, the last actual power brought in from outside the organization via either FA or trade was Chili Davis, so I’m not holding out much hope. I realize DY still may develop, but that’s still only 2 power hitters brought in from the outside in nearly 20 years (not that the Twins developed much power within the organization in that time period). Sigh.
We’ve already got guys in the bullpen who can blowup on any given night like Hoffman and none of them are 41. Don’t need him. Our starters need to pitch beyond 5-6 innings. More work from the starters and the bullpen will be fine.
If we go into the season with Harris at SS and Cuddy at 3rd we will have the worst infield defense in MLB. Worst off, they aren’t great hitters to offset that.
I seriously doubt we will see that combination. I believe Span or Cuddy will be traded before the season. I fully expect 1 SS, 1 3b, or both before the season starts.
if span is traded we better find a leadoff hitter..
and no, not furcal or thee OC
Best case scenario…
Trade either blackburn/slowey and accomany either with two prospects…maybe resign Garret Jones and include him and send them a mulvey or humber. This will be a good package to land Beltre at 3b. Then turn around and sign Orlando Cabrera or Jerry Hairston Jr. to play at SS. Go out and pick up one of the best DH’s of all time in Frank Thomas…I know he is a little older but he still has pop in his bat from the left side, he and Kubel can take turns. Pick up Affeldt to secure the 8th inning. Comments please…
blackburn/slowey/mulvey or humber and garret jones for beltre?
not sure i understood that right
but that is way to much pitching to give up for beltre..
he is not worth nearly that much.
the OC is a guy i would stay away from.
not really that impressive..
i would rather give the young kids at bats then to sign frank thomas. plus he has no speed.. he would kill us offensively if and when he ever did reach base
maybe the twins would go after jorge cantu and kevin gregg..
Matt,
Slowey is an elite pitcher. There is no way you Trade him. Based on the Holiday trade (The A’s got him for the Twins’ equivalent of Bonser, Neshek and Pridie) Perkins, Buscher and a prospect or two should be enough for Betre.
Orlando Cabrera is overpriced for his performance. Hairston is Punto at best with worse defense. The only free agent SS of value might be Furcal.
Affelt would be a great pickup.
Frank Thomas might work, but what do you do with Cuddyer?
MH, Cantu is worse at 3B defensively than Buscher (if anyone could be worse). The Mariners will move him to 1B. Kevin Gregg (125 ERA+, 1.282 WHIP in the NL) is about the level of Crain (113 ERA+, 1.372 WHIP in the AL) and worse than Reyes (174 ERA+, 1.187 WHIP in the AL)
with all the pitching the twins have
they should easily be able to pull off a trade without including baker, liriano, slowey and perkins..
boof has value, blackburn has value, humber, mulvey manship waldrop, robertson
besides. i view perkins as a young kenny rogers.
no way would i trade him. he may have struggled last year in the middle innings, but the kidwent some 10+ starts without a loss. and i believe he was a rookie last year that won 12?
he has the kind of grit and fight that a pitcher needs.. he will only get better.
thrylos98,
Hairston’s numbers last year look like this…
.326, 6HR, 36RBI’s, 20 doubles, and 2 triples in 80 games.
If Punto put up those numbers last season then we wouldnt even be discussing shortstop.
Casilla at SS, Tolbert at 2nd, Buscher / Harris platoon at 3rd. DY in left, Span in center & Cuddy in right. Trade GoGo (& his agent) for power Rh bullpen arm & TOP infield prospect. Kubel DH & Pridie is 4th OF. We retain ALL of our pitching & can use excess early in season to plug any holes. Let the games begin. 
Gomez is a supreme talent and will be an all star soon coco…he is untradeable.
thrylos
yea. dont worry.. i already know all of them things.. but thanks for trying to point them out again.
here is something for everyone.
sign manny to DH
trade for longoria to play 3rd. liriano, baker, nathan, and perkins
then trade about 6 minor leaguers for jose reyes.
trade another 8 minor leaguers for peavy.
sign sabathia, sheets, burnett and lowe. as well as krod
reyes-ss
mauer-c
longoria-3b
morneau-1b
manny-dh
young-lf
gomez-cf
casilla-2b
span-rf
peavy, sabathia, sheets, burnett, lowe
and krod to close
now, i realize we have some weak bats in gomez, casilla and span.
maybe we send gomez and casilla to oakland for holliday..
span can play center and put holliday in left and young in right.
so now we need a 2nd baseman..
just resign punto.. he will be cheap.
now, does anyone have a problem with this?
i think it looks possible.
i figured this was alot more enjoyable to do then to mention names and have someone tell me how ridiculous i am for mentioning them names.
ha
MH,
Good thought with Cuddy at third, ten years ago…have you paid attention at all to the twins in the last decade? Cuddy no success in the infeild and he has played all the positions! Even catcher. The only thing he is good at is the outfield in which we have supreme talent in young/gomez/span. His time has come to an end here in Minnesota…period.
MH,
What have you been smoking this afternoon?
matt
my apologies for mentioning cuddy at 3rd.
your sports knowledge is way above me..
what else can you tell me that i need to know?
ha
MH,
It is clear that you have no rational thoughts about the twins offseason…so why are you wasting your time?
I bet the Twins have zero interest in Orlando Cabrera. The first part of 2008 the White Sox thought he had a bad attitude and was loafing. K Williams has and had no interest in resigning.
MH,
It is clear that you have no rational thoughts on the Twins’ offseason, so why are you wasting your precious time?
just so everyone knows.
when i mention names such as kevin gregg, or jorge cantu..
or moving cuddy to 3rd and leaving harris at short.. its because of this
the twins are mentioned in going after some pretty big names of late..
i mean. last year we were trying to get atkins, or beltre. i remember we were mentioned with soriano when it was a trade deadline coming up a few years ago.
other then making a trade for delmon young. (we traded one of our top young pitchers for a young slugger). other then that one trade. the twins do not do much.
last year we needed a shortstop, thirdbaseman and a pitcher.
adam everett, mike lamb, livan hernandez.
so.. when i hear atkins, jj hardy, beltre and names like that..
i would love to see the twins make a move..
but, until it happens i am going with the fact that the twins will try to take the cheap way out..
enter kevin gregg, jorge cantu..
punto will be your short stop to make up for cantu’s defense
or cuddy is moved to 3rd and punto is at short ot ake up for cuddy’s defense..
or cuddy is traded and we get atkins..
but, i highly doubt the twins get a 3b and a shortstop… its one or the other.
matt
no, i just know this is a blog.
everyone is free to say what they want and to say their thoughts.
honestly im not one that gets to worked up over the little things..
and i apologize if your twins knowledge is higher then mine..
you obviously must be a real insider
Leave MH alone. He is obviously just a kid.
Michael Cuddyer and his glove of stone back at third base…puh-leeeeeeeze!
We have to keep Punto as he is valuable as a utility man when he’s not injured and any hits he gets are a plus. The dude has a great glove at third.
Look if the Twins call up Mijares before the Hellish road trip, that ultimately sank our season, would there still be all this worry about next year’s BP?
Or if Gardy would have just stopped using guerrier!!!
The Twins need right-handed power at third and it’s well known that the Rockies are ready to deal Atkins.A power hitting SS is not something that will come to the twins unless we draft one! They are extremely rare and expensive. The Twins are extremely frugal or just plain out cheap if you want to be a dick about it.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t bolster our BP(Having a dominant force for the eigth inning is more important than adding power to our line-up) but some of our BP woes were due to miss management(I still love ya Gardy but you were loyal to a fault with guerrier).
MH says:
November 12th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
matt
no, i just know this is a blog.
everyone is free to say what they want and to say their thoughts.
honestly im not one that gets to worked up over the little things..
and i apologize if your twins knowledge is higher then mine..
you obviously must be a real insider
““““““““““““““““`
you obviously must be a real insider
LMAO!!!!
You tell him kid!
Don’t take sh*t from anyone, especially know it alls on anonymous blogs.
vanvader
We have Tolbert to due the utility thing now….plus he doesn’t slide into first!!
Cuddyer is not and should not move back to the infield. Twins fans who don’t like him now will not be able to stand him when his lack of range would be hurting this team.
if the Twins call up Mijares before the Hellish road trip
for one thing, Mijares was rehabing from a car accident at that point at the GCL Twins
I wasn’t sure when he was active….I knew that he had an injury earier in the yrar but didn’t know the dates. I’m sure you looked into it so I’m not going to doubt you.
However, you have said yourself that the BP wasn’t handled well.
anybody think we can Uggla from the Marlins? i saw a story that they now think they will keep him. But i have to think they’d listen to offers especially if they could a SP or two????? I’d like Uggla ….
Did anyone notice that down the stretch it seemed, at least from reading the box scores over here, like Gardy was REALLY apprehensive about using Humber?
shameless– how do you think Tolbert got hurt in the first place? He was sliding head first into first base…. I think he may be young enough to extract that from his game….
[…] Joe C. disagrees. Huston Street was paid closer money, and the Twins have an elite closer in Joe Nathan already. I agree with Joe — although it would be nice to have a player of Street’s caliber in the Twins bullpen. If his ego would allow him to slide into the set-up role the 2009 Twins bullpen would be among the top in the league. […]
[…] Joe C. disagrees. Huston Street was paid closer money, and the Twins have an elite closer in Joe Nathan already. I agree with Joe — although it would be nice to have a player of Street’s caliber in the Twins bullpen. If his ego would allow him to slide into the set-up role the 2009 Twins bullpen would be among the top in the league. […]
