Twins enter Thanksgiving in a holding pattern
Posted on November 26th, 2008 – 3:17 PMBy Joe Christensen
Happy Thanksgiving, folks. All quiet on the Twins’ front.
Apologies. I know many of you are dying for some nuggets to chew on with your turkey and stuffing, but I’m anticipating a quiet holiday.
A Padres official told me they’ve had very little dialogue with the Twins, which should quash any thought of the Twins obtaining Kevin Kouzmanoff, Khalil Greene, Chase Headley, etc.
Casey Blake? Slight progress with the Twins since last week, but pretty much status quo.
So the waiting continues.
An agent reminded me today that we might see more movement after Monday, the deadline for teams to offer salary arbitration to Type A and Type B free agents.
The Twins must decide whether to offer arbitration to LHP Dennys Reyes, a Type B free agent. If they offer him arbitration and he leaves, they’ll receive a supplemental-round pick. If they don’t offer him arbitration, they forfeit compensation.
The Twins are among the teams reluctant to sign a Type A free agent because doing so would cost them their first-round pick in next year’s draft. So if a Type A free agent is not offered arbitration, he could become more attractive.
Either way, some of those unknowns will be answered Monday, so things could get interesting next week. Stay tuned.
212 Responses to "Twins enter Thanksgiving in a holding pattern"
first
^ Wut a intellegint coment.
last
Hey…..let’s talk baseball.
Pay Reyes the $$$ or let him go and gamble with the unproven youngsters?
I’ld rather keep Reyes around a couple more years. Mijares will be good but you can never have enough leftys.
Seems pretty safe to offer Reyes arbitration. I’m sure he’ll command a multi-year deal on the open market.
Thanks for the update Joe. I don’t think too many Twins fans are surprised that we haven’t done anything yet. We got screwed on the Delmon Young deal and now we are stuck with him! Nothing will change with the Twins as long as Pohlad is owner. I will never understand the Twins theory about only spending 50% of revenue on payroll. It is time to give back to the great fans of this state and for once in your life, Monty Burns, please spend some money!
“great fans”
Haw - Haw - Haw!
NC…..Pohlad didn’t have anything to do with the DY trade….that was all BS’s deal.
My guess…if BS makes more bad trades this winter, he’ll be traded for a dozen used baseballs.
Man, it does suck being stuck with a 23 year old LF who hit .290 last year.
Shooter over at your competitors on the other side of the river claims the Twins will re-sign Nick Punto soon. Hoo-ray.
Shaun,
Sometimes I wish he was a DH instead of a LF… The routes that guy takes are just ugly… Having said that, I have much hope that he’ll improve - not necissarily faith, but hope…
*Necessarily
A person has to agree with JMP, DY’s routes on flyballs are just plain bad. He could DH but why would we want a DH who will only jack 10 and drive in 80?? Hello Brian Harper.
Sad to say but……by the end of next August, we’ll be missing Punto if he signs elsewhere.
Sad to say but……by the end of next August, we’ll be missing Punto if he signs elsewhere.
Nah. The board has already latched on to Delmon Young to take over the role as most hated Twin.
Thanks Joe. I think if they sign Blake and resign Punto then they either stick with Delmon or trade Delmon for a reliever. But I absolutely can’t imagine them getting a reliever as the compensation for a guy who was once picked first overall.
I absolutely don’t understand everyone freaking out saying we got the raw end of the Garza-Young deal… Delmon is 23!! Two seasons into his career… He’s a freak of a talent. These are probably the same people who would have freaked out if we would have hung on to Garza, Bartlett, etc., and done NOTHING to acquire a bat. He’ll be fine. I understand the frustration, but talents like DY and Gomez, especially at their ages, are worth waiting on. One season then get rid of him? Are you kidding?
KM-
Garza is a stud, he was a headcase stud here, but none-the-less anyone that didn’t see he had star quality here was blind! WE also traded away a great relief option in Mourlin, and our starting SS and leadoff hitter in Bartlett for Delmon ATTITUDE SUCKS Young, Harris who is a meak fielder with some pop, and Jason Pridie who may never see the major leagues.
That was a god aweful trade even if Delmon hits 30 bombs this year and drives in 100 runs. Garza is an ACE, and they don’t make ACES very often!
Ah Neverchange-actually 70% of revenue is spent on payroll which is on the high side for overhead of any business. Signing players/making trades isn’t like going shopping at the mall. It isn’t as easy as you seem to think. Furthermore, if nothing ever changes, and you hate it so much, get out! I’m really tired of all the negativity. Any real Twins fans that can criticize/debate without sounding like an arrogant know it all who claims to know more than the FO, scouts, etc? KM-I agree with you entirely abt Young. He turned 23 in Sept…and he was on a ML 25 man roster at 21. Let’s give our youth a chance to develop a bit more! Some of you were the same people moaning and whining about Morneau back in 2005 and the beginning of ‘06. Let’s see if they can get Blake…and go from there. We don’t need too much to have a winner-hell, last year we had a contender with a team of mostly rookies and no names.
So as I see it…
We now need a SS in the worst way or a second baseman and move Casilla back to SS.
The fact is that this is the best opportunity in the history of Free Agency to pick up a SS in a year where teams are going to be gunshy because of the economy.
We don’t have a top SS prospect at any level of our minors, and there isn’t one in our top 30 prospects according to one site I looked at.
Our owner is the richest in all of baseball, and he’s 301 years old. This would be the ultimate way to finish his Pyramid in Minneapolis.
We need a SS way more than we need a 3rd Baseman and I haven’t heard anything on the JJ Hardy situation either!
BC-we have a solid starting lineup-I worked in the Twins organization and Garza’s attitude was horrible. Delmon is well liked by everyone in the clubhouse. So he doesn’t kiss Ruesse’s butt? Good for him! Garza is a good pitcher, but not an ace. He throws 90% fastballs and gets killed when he can’t locate. He is a head case. Barlett was a leadoff hitter? He’s was never a lead off hitter-he bats 9th or possible 2nd. You may have to eat your words about Delmon Young. KIby or Torri didn’t have two years in the bigs in by age 23…find someone else to hate on, will you?
WE need a SS, we could use an upgrade at 3rd Base.
Do you people want to see Little Nicky Punterrible here again?
BC you have no clue what is going on
1) Prior to last year the twins had NO offensive bats that were ready to play in the bigs. Hindsight is 20/20 with Span obviously, but at that time all they had was pitching. We could afford to trade off one of the young guys for some bats.
2) We had Punto to play the middle and Casilla to come off the bench (at that TIME who knew he would be a starter). Now obviously Casilla has brought on a bigger role.
3) Garza NEVER got along with the coaching or management staff as a Twin. He refused to throw nothing but heat and wouldn’t learn other pitches. Gazra and his cather in TB (Navarro) dam near went to fist-a-cuffs in the MIDDLE of a game…the guy is still a major headcase and nut job.
4) We shipped Bartlett as we were getting back “equal” value in terms of getting Harris…a little more pop, less glove, same RBI production. We gave up the middle reliever, who was young, but had a live arm. We traded Santana and got another position player and more “veteran” and more developed arms. All in all, we replenished the bats (Young, Gogo, Pride, Harris) and also received a nice mix of AA/AAA ready pitchers.
5) Delmon Young. Where to start here. We can argue his HR potential all day long. I am beginning to lean with Gleeman these days, but the fact remains he is a) cheap, b) still has MASSIVE upside and c) is a gamer. People quickly forget he was playing with a torn up ankle for the entire 2nd half and STILL put up an above 300 batting average, 10 bombs and a shopping cart full of RBIs…we double that and get that production for a full year and i am a VERY happy camper.
Twins had to make some moves to give us more batting depth and to turnover some pitching…
I loved the trades and still do (however i wish we did do that Santana for Lester/Masterson/Lowrie deal). Instead, we should all be critical of the free agent moves we have done over the past 2-3 years…those have been killers.
I think if you asked anyone in the front office and dugout if they thought we would come down to a 1-game playoff for the playoffs, and they would have said we were crazy….
for future moves:
resign Punto
trade for JJ Hardy when Brewers lose CC (Slowey/Blackburn/Perkins - let them have one of them)
sign a nice middle reliever and we are now set for the next 3-4 years.
Twinslifer-
I know about Garza’s attitude. You put up with it when a kid has that much talent, and you have Mauer, and Rick Anderson.
I hope you save this, and can make me appologize. I want to be able to do that someday. But as for right now… I look at Bill Smith as Kevin McHale in training.
Yes it takes more to get a deal done than most of us will ever know, but when you don’t have a SS in your system to fill in for 2009 (or a 2nd baseman if you put Casilla at SS) that makes SS a much bigger priority than 3rd base.
I am with you about just signing Casey Blake at 3rd. If he hits .277 with a .345 OB and 17 homers and 70 RBI he will look like the 2nd coming of Mike Schmidt compared to what we have.
But I will not say I am sorry about Delmon Young until I am proven wrong. I admitted my mistake with Denard Span, but after his minor league campaign before last year I was justified, and with Young, and seeing Garza mature all year long in Tampa… I will stand my ground.
The proof will be in the pudding - we can all speculate if Delmon is “well-liked” in the Twins clubhouse or by the front office. We can all have our opinion about whether the trade is a bust. My feeling is that if DY is traded - and there are many rumors he is quite available - the front office is admitting a mistake and that he is not as well-liked within the organization as some seem to think. If no trade, then they either didn’t get offered what they perceived as equal value or they believe in his potential. We shall see.
I must say, many of the comments on these blogs are ALWAYS good for a laugh.
What I read is alot of hate, what I NEVER read is taking this hate to it’s logical comclusion.
Since a 23 year-old (2 weeks played at ML level at that age) a .292 career BA,11 HR & 80 RBI per year, is considered a bust. I realize EVERY other ML team’s 25th player has stats far better than that, and it is only the ineptitude of the Twins FO which considers carrying such a player on the squad.
Since this seems to be the standard, WHY has no one taken that argument to it’s logical conclusion? The team should immediately CUT any player in the system who has not reached the ML by their age 21 year, since by definition, they are a bust.
While you’re at it, NOW is the time to DUMP Morneau while he has some minimal value. As the final 2 weeks of the season show the 2006-2008 pre-September performance was a fluke. Heck, I had thought Morneau had shown some natural growth from his pathetic 22,23 & 24 year old ML seasons, yet that last 2 weeks of the season showed that those 1st 3 years were far more profetic.
Also, Cooperstown should put Kirby Puckett’s bust in the trash, he got in on sympathy anyway. I mean if someone can’t get to the major leagues before age 24, there are no circumstances that they should be considered for the Hall of Fame.
Regards,
Not trying to compare fielding skills… but there was once a rookie OF that hit 4 HRs over the course of his first two MLB seasons, he too was a freak and Tony Oliva saw something… changed it… and the rest was history… if Young hits anywhere near Kirby… he can screw up in the OF and we’ll still love him…
Is anybody surprised? Anyone who expects noteworthy moves from this organization is delusional.
[…] Dierkes of MLBTradeRumors.com on a Joe Christensen report saying that the Padres and the Twins have had “very little dialogue” about a deal […]
I don’t ever want to see Punterrible back here…
You could have easily traded one of the other (or more than one) pitching prospects in the organization. If they Rays would only have taken Garza then you keep Garza, and deal with 2008 as a rebuilding year.
Yes Garza is a headcase, but so is Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, and Roger Clemens… Garza is the only one of the Twins prospects who had any shot at reaching that kind of level. Will he? Probably not, but he had a shot.
Baker and Slowey are Radke clones for the most part, Perkins and Blackburn have less “talent” but are bulldogs, and Liriano is another ACE that is a headache. But then again that’s why you pay your manager, and pitching coach to do their jobs.
Delmon Young was a mistake at the time (and I said it then!) and I will stick to my guns.
Bartlett and Harris are not an equal trade. Gardenhire would never agree with you… GLOVE is much more important at the SS position, plus Bartlett can steal bases and take a walk (unlike most of the rest of the players on this team!).
Garza for Young straight up… we lost
Bartlett for Harris… we lost
Mourlon for Pridie… we will lose in 09
And don’t even get me started on the screw up that was the Santana trade. We may not have had a choice because of Hank Steinbrenner’s collusion that he got away with free and clear, but that was a god-aweful trade! The best player is 3-4 years away, the 2nd best player can’t take a pitch, the 3rd best player is out of options with no place to go, and the 4th best is mediocre at best!
All Santana is going to do is pitch 200 plus innings with a 3.33 ERA or lower for the next 5-6 years.
This team overcomes it’s owner, and idiot GMs!
Do you bow at the Alter of Baby Jesus Mauer as well?
Everyone says we got the bad end of the Young-Garza deal but wait Garza went 11-9 for the Rays, he wasn’t the ace, he could be but then Young could be the right-handed power-hitter we need! Garza pitched great against Boston in the playoffs and that when everyone said we made a bad trade, but ah Garza sucked against the Phillies, so give Young so time, he’s young and nervous coming to a new team. Now he should be fine.
Twins will stand pat, and win the AL Central….pitching is the key, and pitching we have, with Mauer running the show between Pitcher and Catcher. DY will become a stud; GoGo will become a stud; Span will become a bigger stud; Casilla will become a stud; M and M will become bigger studs; the Pitchers will dominate the League; Gardy will become Manager of the Year of the World Series Champion Minnesota Twins!!!!!! I called it today, November 26, 2008. dreesehaugen.
BC,
I sure wish you were Owner or GM, I’d NEVER have to worry about the team being within 10 games of 1st place when May 1st came around. That would reduce excitement and anxiety.
Regards,
Heck BC, if Morlan is so good, maybe the twins will select him in the rule V draft, as he is not on the Rays 40 man.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
Reyes is god awful! Anyone wanting him around his crazy! He only performs well when the Twins have a decent enough lead. Bring him in a clutch situation and he can’t find the strikezone and if he does the ball is going 400+ feet. Get him outta here!
So wait. The Twins should’ve put up with the headcase Garza because of his talent. But the Twins should ditch the headcase Young despite his talent.
Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaking of Bartlett vs. Harris.
Bartlett: .286/.361/.329
Harris: .265/.394/.327
Worse average, equally better slugging. OBP is a wash.
Harris: 29 db, 3 trip, 7 HR, 49 RBI
Bartlett: 25 db, 3 trip, 1 HR, 37 RBI
More XBH and more RBI. Including significantly more of those mighty homeruns that mean more than anything else around here.
Here’s my favorite though:
GLOVE is much more important at the SS position
Harris: 6 E, .976 FPCT
Bartlett: 16 E, .970 FPCT
Oh yeah. Twins really missed Bartlett. Especially as a leadoff hitter. I mean, after Bartlett left all we had was…well…that Denard Span loser.
…and deal with 2008 as a rebuilding year.
Where were you. 2008 was spent rebuilding. That’s why they weren’t willing to give up too much young talent for a potential rental at the deadline.
T-
I see that being an ASS is still easy for you.
Bartlett played the position every day, Harris didn’t Did you mention stolen bases, or the fact that Maddon himself said that Bartlett was the MVP of the team? Compared to Carl Crawford pointing out that the D.Rays were better simply by getting rid of Delmon Young… while they made the playoffs and we didn’t!
I don’t care how you want to shape my words pal… Delmon Young is not Matt Garza. If they would have traded Slowey and some minor leaguers, Baker and some minor leaguers I probably wouldn’t be as upset with the deal still a year later.
This team had the opportunity to go into 2009 to 2011(or longer) with Liriano and Garza as the L/R 1-2 punch in this rotation, and several other pitchers (Blackburn, Perkins… to fill in the rotation).
I would have sacrificed 2008 for that opportunity.
And as for Span… he came up half way through the season brainiac… we had Gomez who was the worst leadoff hitter in the major leagues while he was hitting leadoff.
So while you enjoy ripping me and being an ass I think I will be fine knowing I’m right.
Where was I?
I was right here wondering why they didn’t add a bullpen arm! I was right here wondering what they might do with the 3rd base position…
While you were shooting everyone else’s ideas down you miserable prick!
SGZ - I tend to agree with you, if we can get a sup/pick for him it’s a bonus. I like the guy that they picked up from Cleveland, and the kid seemed to thrive in the bigs last year so I think the Bullpen as a whole is going to be solid from the left side. I would like to see them pick up a guy for the 8th. Crain has the stuff, but not the makeup, Guerrier is a 6-7th kind of guy, and Bonser is there for blowouts. Maybe Humber can fill the role and Smith won’t look like such a fool from the Santana trade?
Garza is a 3/4 at best. Maybe a 2 in talent an Low-A in brains. He’ll pitch some great games and he’ll pitch as many or more mares.
ML hitters will figure him out, he WILL NOT adapt because he and BC think he doesn’t need to.
He’s now had 3 years, and it’s ALL the same. He hasn’t progressed at all.
Regards,
The Dragon…
He did adapt some this year… and if he had Mauer and Anderson I would be confident that he would have progressed even further.
Is he a work in progress? So was Randy Johnson when he came up.
I think Garza is an A+ talent with a C- head.
He’s just a stubborn kid that needs to be broken to get ahead.
Delmon Young doesn’t walk, doesn’t hit for power, is a poor poor poor fielding LF (maybe he plays RF and he’s the next Clemente but I highly doubt it).
While it’s not baseball, in my career it’s been my job to evaluate talent, and train them to be successful. I was very good at that except for the kissing up to management which I’m not… so I left, but judging talent is something that I have done, have done well, and was paid well for it. So I still say I am quite confident in my ability.
What was wrong with having Punto at short last year .284/.382/.344 19 Db / 4 Trpl / 2 HR 28 RBI 10 Errors? I don’t see where his numbers are any worser than Bartlett last year. I am fine to go into the year with him or a healthy Tolbert.
If glove is the most important at short then we live with the .280 plus BA, limited HR & RBI, for our 8th place hitter. We take the speed and range they provide and move on.
Casey Blake would be great addition at 3rd, but I think we would get similar production from Harris / Buscher, with Harris the first option.
Delmon Young will not be traded and will be a future All Star. Great trade last year.
Our pitching - defense is our strength. It has been the staple for years. Now with the growth of our Hitters coming around the Twins will be in the World Series in next 3 years. Nothing wrong with fielding a good competitive team, winning Division Championships like it has and positioning itself for a strong run at the title like it will.
Waddy,
I wouldn’t mind them taking a flyer on Mourlan with the Rule 5.
Then when they sign Casey Blake they can cut Drew Butera from the 40 man roster.
Iowa -
The Twins will do fine with Tolbert at SS, and Harris and Buscher manning 3rd… I agree.
That doesn’t mean that they can’t, or shouldn’t try to improve those positions.
By signing Casey Blake to a 2-3 year deal they are just buying time for Velencia. By trading for a guy like JJ Hardy they would be freeing up a log jam into the minors for pitching, and solving two big problems for the lineup… a SS that can play Defense, and a right handed power hitter to bat 5th in the lineup.
If you could trade Blackburn/Perkins and a couple of minor leaguers to get Hardy I think you have to explore it.
I also think that on the other side if they have an opportunity to move Cuddyer (as rumored with the Rockies they have to explore it).
But it’s GMs in baseball that are saying that Bill Smith is openly shopping Delmon Young and not the other outfielders…
Punto could also be an every other year player, and do you want to pay him 5 million a year to hit .202 with 11 doubles, 1 triple, 1 homer? And with his pension for sliding head first into 1st base… do you want to have him be the next RonDL White?
I never followed Garza’s career too much until he was traded. Why so many comments on a .500 pitcher for a team that had the second best record in all of baseball and played in the World Series? Wouldn’t that mean he’d be 5-15 for an average team? I don’t get it.
I saw a couple things written above:
1) Delmon has “MASSIVE” upside. Anyone that bad in the field cannot be considered to have upside. His defense cancels out his batting average. At best, he is a DH, but with only 10-12 HR’s its not going to happen until he decides to drive the ball. Delmon gained weight this past year - and that could be a bad sign of things to come given his families genetics.
2) The fact that the Brewers would entertain trading JJ Hardy for one of our 2nd tier starting pitchers (Blackburn, Perkins) is not close to realistic. The Brewers believe they have been soooo close 2 years in a row and need just a little more to get to the next level. They would not give up a stud shortstop for an average arm - especially if they lose Cc and/or Sheets. No way, I think they want 2 players - either 2 arms (Slowey, Mijares) or one arm and a position player (Gomez). Yep, they’ll want a lot…
BC,
I see you still fall back on name-calling under pressure.
Try to think of some good names for me while I try to understand how you equate baseball talent evaluation with any other talent evaluation experience you may have had.
Ok, I’ve got it!
In order to equate baseball talent evaluation with other talent evaluation, you simply have to be delusional. And after reading your other posts, I am sure you qualify.
Is this the same BC Beneke that used post here?You were missing in action this summer when your predictions all went south.I missed your insight!
Unbelievable,
How many people in Delmon Young’s family have you ever seen?
You know all about his genetics because he has an older brother with a weight problem.
His father has no such problem, but don’t let that stop you from making unwarranted generalizations based on one brother.
On the other hand, I totally agree with you regarding the Twins chances of trading for JJ Hardy.
GENO,
I think BC went AWOL when PUNTO and VAVRA had AOK seasons and BC was left with CRAP in his LEVIS.
I apologize for all the acronyms.
BC Beneke, now let’s hear you talk about the great Jacoby Ellsbury and his sure-thing rookie of the year status some more. Great judge of talent my ass. Over-sized ego with diarrhea of the keyboard is more like it.
I can’t see what the big deal would be to give up the our first draft choice next year to sign a Class A like Hudson considering that 3 of last years draft choices made our top ten.
BC -
I now know why you have such a thing for Garza ….
In one of your comments, you state “…in my career, it’s been my job to evaluate talent and train them to be successful. I was very good at that except for the kissing-up to management … so I left ….”
Could it be that you and Garza share a common personality trait … namely, the inability to collaborate with management for the sake of the team?
You strike me as a very angry/unhappy person. Grow up.
twinslifer-I agree with your take on Delmon.With all the crap he took from the Tampa and national media,no wonder he didn’t like talking to the media!He had trouble seeing the ball off the bat in the dome.He lost confidence.I think he tried to hard after the troubles in Tampa.If he learnes to relax,his potential might come out.
This BC dude is a little screwy
I’ll ask the same question I asked two blogs ago…why aren’t the Twins pursuing Rafael Furcal?
SS is a glaring hole, and all it takes to acquire Furcal is money. The Twins have payroll room in 2009 and a new stadium opening in 2010.
And this is just a comment…if you’re going to list BA/OBP/SLG, do it in that order, like the rest of the world, please.
“This BC dude is a little screwy”
The words “a little” have no business being in that statement!
I have not read the postings so I am not sure what the topic is, but I am sure the source of the problem is Cheap Carl.
Kevin, then you should go back and read the post Sane left for you on LaVelle’s blog this afternoon. Give it a rest.
I have heard rumors that the Rockies are interested in Cuddyer. Why not send Cuddy and Harris or Buscher to CO for Garrett Atkins.
Also we keep hearing rumors that CC will spurn the Yanks b/c he wants to stay in the National League. That could include Milwaukee. If he does stay with Milwaukee, that most likely would squash any chance of Sheets coming back. So why not package some of our surplus of pitchers to the Brewers for JJ Hardy? They want to make room at SS for their hot prospect anyway.
I am all for trimming the payroll and giving the kids a shot in the outfield. Also I would rather take the risk with younger “potential talent” then take on someone who is 30+ years old for 3-4 years at 5-10 Million per such as Blake, Hudson, or Furcal.
With the elimination of Cuddyer’s salary and the move into the new ballpark with young “potential talent” we will have the ability to retain, with new sources of revenue, the best talent that emerges out of that.
The Pohlads know that they had better spend a little more at the new ballpark on the payroll b/c that was the selling point for the new stadium, that it would help us keep more of our young talent.
As for Delmon, please give the poor kid a break. He made it to the majors at the age of 21 and has at least proven an ability to hang with major league pitching, which is the hardest thing to teach a prospect. His defense will come with practice and time. Ryan Howard was 26 before he established himself as a viable power hitter.
Chew on that friends and Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Be thankful for all your blessings. Quit calling each other names. Most other GM’s would be happy to have the Twins’s “problems”…., lot’s of young & inexpensive talent with more on the way. BS does not seem to be afraid to make changes unlike TR often did. Most other teams seem to respect the Twins because they are stable & work very hard. Have a little faith, they will try their best to improve the team. My priorities would be a RH SS with at least power potential, RH power arm for bullpen, & then a RH power 3B. Let’s see what will happen. Spring training is just around the corner. 
The Twins are among the teams reluctant to sign a Type A free agent because doing so would cost them their first-round pick in next year’s draft.
Does this team ever want to win a World Series ever again? Screw the 1st round pick. Odds are it won’t amount to much anyway. Sign a proven player(s) and make this team a winner!
Unbelievable and BC
1) The problem with Delmon in the field is the fact he was in the wrong place the entire season. I totally agree he looks clumsy taking cuts to the ball and judging angles…however, the kid has an absolute HOSE for an arm (i believe he was rated as the 3rd best arm in the AL or something like that). That description does NOT fit a “prototypical” left fielder…he is a born Right Fielder…i still shrug my shoulders why they didn’t move him once Cuddy went down.
2) as you rated Garza as a A+ talent with a C- head, i would say the EXACT thing for Delmon. A+ talent but is so fricking stubborn he wont change ways…he completely turned it around in the second half by pulling more balls which is a good sign, so we will see. I am also waiting to see what happens to the kid once he gets that ankle fixed. You saw him hobbling out in LF during the entire 2nd half. I am willing to give the kid another year to see how he develops.
3) my comment on the trade for JJ Hardy. I TOTALLY agree it would take more than just a pitcher. I didnt mean to infer that the Brewers would do it straight up. But i would sure as heck trade one of those 3 arms + 1 to 2 minor league players to bring him over. You might get him for one of the three + Mulvey or Humber if they lose Sheets/CC. JJ can play SS and 3b without blinking and has a solid bat.
4) I would be okay with Blake. I dont like the cash he is rumored to be seeking, but anything would be an upgrade of the Tolbert/Harris/Punto deal. I like Punto, but for an uber-utility role only.
5) Atkins has Coors inflation numbers so he makes me nervous. Kouzmanoff is a pure butcher at 3b and wouldnt be a Twins “fit”.
6) and last but not least, i do NOT worship at the alter of Joe Mauer. I like the way the kid calls a game, but talk about a guy with no clutch power and the uncanny ability to bat 0.500 with noone on, but 0.125 with a guy on third. I chuckle with my friends and call him a glorified Brian Harper.
AB says:
November 27th, 2008 at 1:25 am
2) as you rated Garza as a A+ talent with a C- head, i would say the EXACT thing for Delmon. A+ talent but is so fricking stubborn he wont change ways…
5) Atkins has Coors inflation numbers so he makes me nervous. Kouzmanoff is a pure butcher at 3b and wouldnt be a Twins “fit”.
Garza’s an A+ talent with a B head. Other then Navarro punching him, Matt had no troubles this year at all. The Twins were too fast to pull the trigger to rid themselves of a great pitcher. As for Young, B/B- talent with a C head.
As for Atkins, the only thing inflated by Coors was his average which almost nobody seems to understand. His bat works everywhere as evident by the fact he has MORE homers on the ROAD then he does at home over his career. Twins need power and Atkins has plenty of it.
I see some are worried about not signing a Type A Free Agent in order for the Twins to save a draft pick….I think saving a first round pick makes a ton of sense for the model the Twins use in building their organization. If memory serves only one of this year’s eight playoff clubs signed a Type A free agent last year….the Angels and Torii Hunter and that was a dumb signing, total waste. The Angels were paper tigers, winning 100 games in a weak division and then getting dismissed abruptly from the playoffs. The Twins are far better off w/Gutierrez and Hunt in the system then the Angels will be watching Hunter age into oblivion over the course of his deal.
The lure of free agency is quite often latching on to fool’s gold.
Didn’t we once have Casey Blake in our farm system and then decided to release him? Justin Morneau would like another bat in the lineup — didn’t we once have David Ortiz and then decided not to offer him another contract?
DY deal will be beneficial to the Twins when Gardenhire and the staff figure out he can’t play LF! He is Right fielder, put him in right where he belongs and let Span play left. By the way, he had the second highest OPS in September, (behind Mauer) and played most of August and all of Sept on a bad ankle that would have kept most guys on the DL!
morlan is a minor league free agent. Apparently didn’t work out that great for the rays…
someone else that will be surely considered for ss is machado. And unless they get a hardy or a furcal, he might not be that bad of an internal option
I take issue with calling Bill Smith as Kevin McHale in training. Smith is handcuffed by Cheap Carl, and had done a pretty good job so far, except for the retread signings.
When Smith made the Garza-Young trade, I thought that a Twins GM finally showed the guts to give up yes, a good pitcher, to get some offense. Right now the trade doesnt look as good, and maybe it never will, but I have not given up on Delmon yet. I thought he did a great job in those great sage commercials with Killebrew, Oliva, Carew, and Hrbek.
Anyway, to suggest Bill Smith is in the McHale class is ridiculous.
McHale is perhaps the worst and least qualified GM in the history of sportdom, even worse than Matt Millen.
ONLY TIME [A LONG TIME] WILL TELL. lASR YEAR THE EDGE WENT TO THE RAYS, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT 10 YEARS. MAYBE HARRIS WILL BECOME A SOLID FIELDING 3RD AND HIT 20 PLUS. THE KEY WORD IS MAYBE, WHICH IS SYNONAMOUS WITH –WHO THE HELL KNOWS. ITS A TRADE WE CAN HAVE FUN DEBATING FOR YEARS. A WILD GUESS–IT WILL END UP ABOUT EQUAL, DEPENDING ON THE YEAR, INJURIES, TRADES, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT, ETC. RAY FANS AND TWIN FANS BOTH HAVE A LOT TO LOOK FORWARD TOO.
CAN’T WAIT TO HEAR “PLAY BALL” AGAIN.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL
HAVE FUN!!! GO TWINS !!!
I see that being an ASS is still easy for you.
Wow. BC resorts to a personal attack vs. actually addressing an argument.
Did you mention stolen bases, or the fact that Maddon himself said that Bartlett was the MVP of the team?
So let me get this straight.
Gardy talks about how Punto helps the team, we all hate Gardy because he’s a moron and make comments about Punto and bathroom caulk.
Maddon talks about how Bartlett helps the team, it’s evidence of how much the Twins miss Bartlett?
….What’s the difference?
Oh wait. Right. People don’t like Punto. Gotchya.
If Morlan was that great, then why have the Rays left him unprotected in the Rule V draft? (According to mlbtraderumors.com)
Ideal 2007 line-up…?
Span (CF) (lefty)
Hardy (SS) (righty)
Mauer (C) (lefty)
Morneau (1B) (lefty)
Blake (3B) (righty)
Kubel (DH) (lefty)
Cuddyer (RF) (righty)
Young (LF) (righty)
Casilla (2B) (switch)
Many people are quick to give up on Cuddy…I think he is a good head to have in the dugout.
Keep Young around. We know potential power hitters struggle in the dome for some reason (ie Ortiz). Young still hit well enough to benefit the team this year…then bring on Target Field.
Span and Gomez are too similar, except Span can bunt. I like Gomez, but do not think he will ever be an effective bunter.
Punto works his tail off and is a great utility guy. And let’s not forget about Tolbert to fill in.
We need to fix pitching, but I see no quick and easy way. Hopefully our young guys can keep progressing.
I don’t claim to know a lot about setting up a team, I am just a huge fan, and this would be by ideal team.
THE TWINS NEED TO GET SOME PEOPLE OFF THE ROSTER IF THEY ARE GOING TO IMPROVE IN 2009. THEY NEED TO RID THEMSELVES OF CUDDYER, BONSER, AND PUNTO. I THINK THE ADDITION OF ADRIAN BELTRE COULD REALLY PUT THE TWINS OVER THE TOP AND POSSIBLY BRING THEM THE PENNENT EARLY IN 2009. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT THE ORGANIZATION IS NOT WILLING TO PUT UP THE MONEY NECESSARY FOR BELTRE. IF THE GO ALL OUT AND OBTAIN HIM, THEY WILL BE AN OUTSTANDING TEAM. THE MONEY SPENT ON BELTRE WILL BE RETURNED WITHIN A FEW YEARS AS THE TWINS WOULD BECOME KNOWN AS A POWERHOUSE BRINGING IN A TREMENDOUS UPSWING IN REVENUES.
(correction…2009 line-up)
Lartwinfan-We should be able to have fun debating the Young trade,after all baseball is a game and games should be all about fun.But it’s a blood sport on the Trib blogs.Tragic!
I think that everyone is really missing the point. This team is really good as it is, and will compete next year only if the bullpen can get us to Nathan. Atkins would be awesome and Hardy would be a Twins fan dream come true, but we’ve got the best starting rotation in our division so if we hit like we did this year and play defense then we won’t really need more homeruns. Young and Cuddy will provide(if healthy) the team with plenty of right-handed power. I think the key for Young to become a feared presense is for him to stop slapping hits the opposite way and start driving the ball to right. If pitchers thought he could consistantly get extra basehits the other way then more pitcher would try to burn Delmon on the inside of the plate. From what I’ve seen pitchers never pitch him inside right now because he’s content to slap singles to right. With his hand speed he would hit alot of homers if he were seeing more inside pitches.
Kevin says:
November 27th, 2008 at 10:27 am
I take issue with calling Bill Smith as Kevin McHale in training. Smith is handcuffed by Cheap Carl, and had done a pretty good job so far, except for the retread signings.
2 things….
1. Carl isn’t cheap, the GM is just inept.
2. Carl no longer runs the team, it’s his sons.
What free-agent would your guys spend big money on right now? Besides Manny and Sabathia(who will both get extremely over paid) who’s a type A free agent worth pursueing?
Cuddy should be taking grounders at 3B right now. Move Cassila to SS. Tolbert takes over at 2B. Move Span to left & Delmon to right. Trade for a power RH set up man. Play ball!
shameless says:
November 27th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
What free-agent would your guys spend big money on right now? Besides Manny and Sabathia(who will both get extremely over paid) who’s a type A free agent worth pursueing?
Furcal, Hudson, Larry Wayne Jones Jr if his option isn’t picked up, Abreu, Burrell
Shameless,
Burrell (RH. Power.)
I would like to see MN pick up Furcal (3yrs 35mil 4th year option) and Blake (2yrs 15mil with option 3rd year) to man the left side of the infield. Rotate Young, Span, Gomez, Cuddyer, and Kubel in the three outfield spots and DH. Eventually dangle one of those for a starting pitcher. I’m not sold on Perkins. Each could play about 130 games and would give Gardenhire flexibility not only in the field, but also in the lineup. It would keep all those guys fresh.
If Morlan was that great, then why have the Rays left him unprotected in the Rule V draft?
Morlan is good…he’s just not Bartlett good.
So the Rays let him go.
Why is it that every off season we expect something big to happen and it never does. The line was was, “Once we get a stadium, then we will be competitive in free agency.” Now what is it going to take, tax subsidized salaries? I’m getting to the point that I’m going to start cheering for the A’s. I think they are the same franchise but with some balls.
Schuey, what do you expect with Cheap Carl? He suckers the public into 300 plus mill for a stadium, saying he needs it to stay competitive, then after the suckers take the bait, instead of getting key players he gives money to Obama.
Yet there are some of said suckers on this very board, Cheap Carl apologists who got taken in by it all, now yet apologize for Carl. Some live in the metro and pay the taxe. Other lives far away, and pay only when they come to town, yet whine that the new stadium will not have a dome.
Sy, I have to admit its hearsay, but I have heard Delmon and his brother Dmitri take after mom’s side of the family, not the slender father’s side. And Delmon reportedly has gained 8-10 lbs over the last year…. doesn’t make it a lock he gets bigger, but most of us do from age 20-30 anyway. I’m thinking he doesn’t get any more agile as a fielder….
AB, agree with your post above and most of the 6 points. Yes, I think if the Twins keep Delmon, right field is a much better spot for him - altho I still think he’s our weakest overall outfielder and he’d make a much better DH. The challenge will be what to do with Cuddy. Maybe we rotate 4-5 outfielders like the Angels did last year…?? See who emerges, who gets injured, who we get a big offer for, etc.
Okay, could do that - if it were me though I think Delmon has highest trade value (based on reputation and reports of massive potential, not overall ability IMO) and is our best chance for a trade to get a proven major leaguer to fill one of the Twins gaps (SS, 3B, BP).
Kevin,
Your stadium rant is tiresome.
Could you please link to a post, by you, where you complained of the Twins being saddled with one of the “WORST” sports leases for the past 25 odd years.
So the taxpayers fleeced the team for 25 years, and now want to complain about pitching in a bit.
Secondly, it is amusing that you folks in Minnesota can’t figure how to make a profit on the stadium, when DC, probably the worst run city in the US if not the world, are already in positive cash flow(profit) on a stadium extorted from the City by MLB (even with the team refusing to pay rent). So funny in that the current mayor, who was a City Councilman at the time and fierce opponent of the stadium, is looking to take the profit and build DC United a soccer stadium.
Regards,
I had to re-read my comments after reading the MANY responses, and I can see where my words can make me look a lot angrier than I really am. As a sports fan I am probably not much different than anyone else. It is the life of training, and teaching others that probably shapes some of my opinionated nature. So it’s also a word choice.
T- you brought up a good point on the Gardenhire vs Maddon comment. Bartlett was a favorite of Gardy’s and Harris has more Todd Walker in him… a bat, and not much glove, and doesn’t fit the mold for what this team is trying to do… and Buscher can’t field at an adequate level, and his arm is weak which is a terrible combo for a 3rd baseman. So that’s why it’s easy for all of us to go after the 3rd base position, but still…
Punto is by no means my favorite player… I think everyone in the world gets that, and I’m sorry if I have offended you, him or anyone else by my blatant attacks against his style of play. He is easy for a coach to love because he’s an effort player. I look at SS as a position that this team needs to upgrade bigtime on, and this year they have a chance to do that for the team, and I get to personally see Punto go away which for me is a nice bonus (and who knows the new guy may be terrible, and I’ll wish Nick was back here… I just want that opportunity to miss him!)
As for my butting head with management… there is some truth to that. I am very stubborn and believe I know the right way. But I would also like to say that I’m just not one of those “yes” men that will do things without asking questions. That was the big problem in the past.
And as for being an angry person, and using personal attacks. I would dare say that just because our styles of typing are different wouldn’t make you a lot less negative than I am T. You rip a lot of people for their ideas, and don’t present ideas of your own. It’s ok to always have management’s back if they are paying your salary, but in this case it’s sports…
And I disagree with a lot of their philosophies. Are they better than they were through the 90’s? Yep
Are they good enough to do more than to be the cute club that is better than .500? Not really.
That is the area that sets me off. Don’t tease me with 85 wins every year… take a chance… a calculated risk, and make a move that could make you a big boy on the block.
As for Mauer… If he were anywhere other than the 3-4 hole in the lineup my attitude on him would change dramatically… though I will probably always be a bit disgusted by the media, and the marketing of him as the 2nd coming. He’s a great catcher who is somewhere between Bill Madlock and Wade Boggs as a hitter. Not a run producer. So I think he’s given too much slack for his inability to drive in runs in a run producing position. Just because he’s from Minnesota.
“Not a run producer”???? 85 RBI in 2008 contributed to that silver slugger award
Does anyone else get to the point where after reading about two of BE Boreneke’s posts you just skip reading the rest? Been there and still doing that. Jeesh. We get the point, he doesn’t like DY and wants to have Matt Garza’s children. Enuf.
You rip a lot of people for their ideas, and don’t present ideas of your own.
No. I present my ideas. But unlike many people around here I don’t feel the need to repeat them over, and over, and over, and over.
Just off the top of my head from 2007:
1) Go after Rowand.
2) Trade Santana to the Sox ONLY if they could get Ellsbury as part of the deal. (I was horrified when Crisp’s name started coming up)
3) Bring up Buscher as the starting 3B (pissed me off when they signed Lamb)
4) Kubel as everyday DH.
I’m surprised you can’t remember those. Afterall, I got ripped for suggesting them because it was built around the idea that the Twins should take a step back in 08 to give some of their younger talent a chance to make or break (Buscher/Kubel especially).
I also presented some basic wishes for 2009 as the season was winding down. Again, just off the top of my head:
1) Resign Punto if and only if he’s willing to accept a lower pay rate to be a bench player. Apparently he was not, as he’s now a Free Agent.
2) Go after Roberts from the Orioles (or Cabrera if they’re more comfortable with Casilla at 2B)
3) Cuddyer+ to Colorado as part of an Atkins+ package (this was built on the idea that with Holliday leaving they’d have an opening in the OF…and Cuddy’s arm would be an assest in the deep OF at Coors).
As far as “taking offense” to Punto-bashing. That’s hardly the case. If anything, I take offense to some of the utterly broken logic you often fling around.
Case in point: “Maddon thinks Bartlett is the team MVP!” is somehow a supporting argument for Bartlett vs. Harris.
So I used the example of Gardy/Punto as an example where a Manager liking a player doesn’t mean s**t to the users of these forums (including posters such as BC), and how the whole Gardy/Punto thing has developed into one of those clever “bathroom caulk” things (see…because it sounds like a certain part of the male anatomy).
I don’t get offended by people ripping on players. I get offended by poor logic in arguments. And I have to say when it comes to Punto there’s poor logic in spades.
But forget Punto. As of writing this he’s not a member of the Twins. So thankfully people can move on to hating whatever player is next in line.
Augie… I’m happy with the children I’ve produced. I wonder if your mom and dad feel the same way?
Chad -
85 RBI out of the 3rd spot in the lineup… compare that with the other teams in baseball, and Mauer’s production doesn’t seem all that special.
The fact that he’s a great catcher is a great plus, and the fact that he has a great eye is wonderful. Put him in the leadoff spot or the number 2 spot. 85 RBI out of the 3 spot isn’t enough.
100 RBI is a good number for the 3 spot.
The line was was, “Once we get a stadium, then we will be competitive in free agency.”
Is the stadium open yet? Is it hosting games and generating concession sales yet?
“Don’t tease me with 85 wins every year… take a chance… a calculated risk, and make a move that could make you a big boy on the block.”
…Don’t know we need to take a big risk every year, but IMO the above is accurate where we stand today. We have a core of players that will peak over the next couple years. We need to add the complimentary players that put us at 90+ wins with a shot at going deep in the playoffs.
We have major gaps right now at SS, 3rd and BP. We should make a move to get (insert your names here: Hardy, Escobar, League, Cain, various third basemen…whatever).
We’re at least 2 players short from being one of the “big boys” in the AL - let’s fill the critical gaps by making a bold move this offseason. That’s how small market teams make a push every once in awhile. The window is open for us now~
T-
I remember a lot of those comments, but I didn’t attribute them all to you, so that one is on me. And the Bathroom Caulk comments are mine so if anyone else was using them I appologize, but I started that last year. I thought I’d retired it. Cheap and easy humor.
I just don’t remember you and I ever being on the same side of anything and I got ripped badly for demanding the Twins trade with the Red Sox for Elsbury, Lowrie, and Masterson. I didn’t even want either of their starting pitchers. Those three players would have put the Twins in the playoffs last year without a doubt in my mind, but that was yesterday.
And I will still take the Stud pitching prospect over the stud hitting prospect no matter the mental stability of the player. It’s harder to find a person with the qualities to become an ace than it is to become a starting outfielder. It’s also the newspapers, and internet sites that have said the Twins are trying to trade Delmon Young (and not one of the other outfielders… which makes Bill Smith completely ripable). I think that Bartlett is a better SS than Harris, I think over the course of 150 games at the spot for each the numbers would not be close defensively.
I agree with BC and unbelievable that this off season is the time to make some bold moves.Most of us think they have been too conservative in the past.If they make bold moves don’t turn around and rip them if the moves don’t workm out
Geno…
I would much rather be ripped, and 2nd guessed for making mistakes than for never making a move at all.
This is an offseason where our needs are right there to be fixed (or at least made a great opportunity to fix).
Juan Cruz RP (3 years and 12 million should get him)
Casey Blake 3B (3 years: 7.5 million, 7.0 million, and 5.5 million)
I think they could trade Blackburn/Perkins, and some of their minor league talent for Hardy
That would keep all 4 of their outfielders Delmon could get another shot to improve, and Gomez could be put in AAA to learn some patience at the plate while Cuddyer and Young get the atbats and audition for any possible trades in the future.
cruz - 12 million total
GENO & BC,
Bold move I’m sure you would like.
Mauer & Morneau for Beltre. That takes care of 3B in spades.
Regards,
The Dragon…
You don’t have to like me, or my views, but at least I’m serious when I’m speaking.
Calvin Griffenth is dead so I don’t think the Twins trading their entire franchise at the same time would ever happen. Calvin was even cheaper than Pohlad… just ask Blyleven, Carew, Killebrew, or Kaat.
Look, we haven’t gotten to December 1st.
I’ll grant you ALL of the free agents have signed elsewhere. ALL 29 other clubs are set for Spring Training, and the Twins have sat on their hands and done nothing. Life’s a bitch.
Regards,
the dragon
some of us would just like them to be real players, and to actually be bold…
I pray I never see an offseason like last year ever again for this team. It was worse than most years of being a Timberwolves fan.
Lowball Hunter, Santana, and Silva (at least letting Silva go turned out extremely well!)… but most people here in Minnesota seem to be duped by the Twins approach to free agents.
They say they are going after someone. That player is projected to be in demand at 5 years and 75 million.
The Twins offer 4 years and 50 million. The player refuses, and then the club looks like it’s trying. I dare you to go to Target, Cub, or Walmart and bring up a lb of hamburger and tell them even though it is 3.99 a lb that you’ll give them a buck ten, and when they refuse and you can say that you made a fair market offer I suppose but the kids still go hungry.
BC,
I may disagree with a some of your ideas, yet it is the generally negative tone of your posts which gets to me far more.
GENO, mentioned above something to the effect if you want bold moves AND bold moves are made, even if you don’t agree, accept and go forward. I agree with that sentiment.
I tend to be very sarcastic because I sincerely doubt there is anyone who posts on these blogs who is actually in the room where and when decisions are made. Yet, many posters act as if they are the only ones with knowledge.
This is a business where it is nearly impossible to be perfect. You and others love Garza, I would have given him away. Whether he does well or not elsewhere, the chances of him doing well in Minnesota are zero or less. My opinion of course. I don’t think Young was nearly as bad last year as some do. Yes he butchered some plays in the OF, Hell we would have been in the playoffs if Morneau could have gotten a hit or two near the end of the season, that would seem to put him on a bridge to somewhere else.
Things will be what they are, so be it.
Regards,
then add to the fact that they had a chance to make a deal with the Red Sox last year for Santana, or keep him, and they chose the alternative of giving him to the Mets for a great but erratic talent in Gomez (the kid could be a superstar, or could be the next Juan Encarnacion… a guy that was once a hotter prospect than Vlad Guerrero), Phil Humber who is out of options, Kevin Mulvey who is a 5th starter at best in the major leagues if he gets that opportunity, and a 19 year old pitching prospect that the Twins completely changed around last year. IF you look at his numbers they were terrible in the minors last year compared the the two and half years with the Mets.
Lowrie whom I think is going to be a star in the calibur of Nomar Garciaparra, Ellsbury (CF solution, leadoff solution, and Masterson 8th inning Solution) were there, but the Twins wanted more, and settled for next to nothing with the Mets.
I blame Hank Steinbrenner for a lot of that with his big mouth open and destroying the market, but I suppose the baseball Gods got him back as the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs, and I think that it’s a safe bet to say that if they had Santana last year they had a good shot.
…………..
And I think the Delmon Young/Garza deal was terrible, and while I hope to be wrong on that. Bill Smith actively shopping Young according to other GMs is a sign that he feels he made a mistake as well. Sometimes it’s not the player it’s the price you pay for him that makes him not worth it. Had we traded Slowey, Robertson, and Duensing for him I wouldn’t have complained at all. I’m a Garza fan. Just like Joe Mauer, if he batted leadoff or 2nd I wouldn’t complain about him hardly at all, but compare his numbers to the average number 3 hitter in each major league lineup and he isn’t in the top half of MLB as a 3rd hitter (and that is as a batting champ).
Dragon,
I’m a huge Morneau fan, and I was ripped nationally by many when he beat the international baby jesus Derek Jeter (his disciples make the Mauer fans look half hearted). And this year I was getting ripped because Pedroia beat him, and as I put it to them. Pedroia didn’t win the award Morneau lost the award. He choked the last 3 weeks of the season. But we can also say that if the kid from Chicago would have never gotten hurt he would have won the MVP… so either way I agree with you on Morneau.
I also went after the D.Rays internet guy after Carl Crawford’s comments on Delmon Young. I was a big fan of Crawford before he threw Delmon under the bus. I thought that was a terrible way for a leader to act about a young player, but Young took a significant step backwards, where Garza took a big step forward. They are both blockheads, and could use attitude adjustments, but I will take that slider, and 95 mph fastball over 8 (and could have easily been 14 errors in LF), and all those lousy 1st pitch swings, and too many 1 pitch atbats.
That’s not aggressiveness that is stupidity in my opinion.
But you are right… I have had a lot of people tell me I write like I was right in the room when I share my views… and it’s just my writing style, and my conviction in my opinion… try to take me with a grain of salt.
The Win is what matters most, but even if the team wins 100 games, they can have places to improve. I just want to see the team get to 100 wins. With a power hitter or two in this lineup, and health… they have a good shot at that in 2009.
BC,
Are you wanting to re-argue Hunter & Santana?
The Twins “lowball” offer to Hunter was in the ballpark of the published offers of everyone BUT the Angels.
Santana DID NOT want to be in Minnesota anymore.
Now to make you happy they could have offered Hunter 30 mil per year and Santana 50 mil per year, and they might have signed, AND the Twins would have had a worse record with those two than without, IMHO.
Maybe if you took some time to reflect back to where the Twins organization was when Bill Smith took over. Without a knee jerk, it’s being cheap, as the 1st answer to every move, I submit ALL of Bill Smith’s moves are reasonable, and while several did not work out as intended, they were intellectually defensible.
Since you obviously do not like the Garza/Young trade, that trade leads me to believe/expect Bill Smith is far more likely to make a bold move than Terry Ryan would have.
Regards,
Oops, part of that got cut out in the edit. After I went up against him and just ripped Crawford to death for his actions… In August I was emailed, with the words. “Crawford was right, we told you so… good luck… ps pay attention to Delmon on the bench. He will swing wild on the first pitch ground out, and it won’t even bother him.” That’s when I realized that D.Young could be a huge problem. At least when Garza’s mental problems occur it’s because he’s too aggressive, and because his heart and soul are into what he’s doing.
Dragon…
I’m out of the office in about a minute here (this is so much more fun than the mountain of paperwork!)…
The Hunter offer was for less years than he wanted. He was asking for 5 years, and I believe the Twins offered him the same dollars per year as everyone else, but at less years which I have noticed is one of their two pattoned ways of letting players go and try to save face.
As for Santana… they had the ability to keep him all season, and then if we sucked trade him at the deadline, and if he was going to nix any trade at that point in time you would have gotten two 1st round picks for him which may end up being more than we got for him in a trade unfortunatly.
I will agree that Bill Smith is more likely to make a move than Terry Ryan. That poor guy had nothing left those last two years, and put Bill Smith into a bad position for a rookie.
Combine all those moves with putting money into Lamb/Everrett and Livan Hernandez and 2008 to me looks like the Twins players overcame the front office…
And while I’m guilty of picking on Gardy for his love of Punto… I think that 2008 was his best year managing, and that he did a fantastic job last year. It was right there with 2002. Gardy did a hell of a job, and the players did a great job… they had to Management didn’t seem to have their backs.
BC,
The problem with ALL the rumors, is was the Red Sox offer real or the figment of a writers imagination? Quite frankly I’ll take Gomez over Ellsbury 7 days a week and twice on Holidays. Ellsbury was batting in one of the most hitter friendly parks and in a far superior line-up than Gomez and did not have significantly superior performance to Gomez. Given that Gomez is several years younger, and does not have to improve much more than 10% to be the equal to Ellsbury (who is close to the finished article), I like what we have.
It’s really funny, on these blogs, there are continual comlaints about the Twins signing washed up has beens, So Bill Smith got some very talented youngsters, and NOW the complaint is that they are busts at age 22/23.
I will KNOW the day the end of time is near (as my father, the retired preacher, taught me in my youth), when a majority of the posters on this site actually think the FO made a good move, AND is actually attempting to improve the club. Won’t happen in my lifetime, and I have a number of years to live.
Regards,
I would like to be more optimistic and think that Bill Smith had a baptism by fire last year, got burned and is going to be all the wiser this year for it.
He won’t bring in used junk like Lamb, Everett, and Livan, but already hearing comments like NO TYPE A FREE AGENTS… reeks of more hasbeens and never-was type players.
The team has cut 19 million dollars off of their cap, they made more money last year than they did in 2007, and they have their downpayment already for the naming rights for Target Field. Seems to me like if they wanted to they could sign Furcal, Sign Derek Lowe and Juan Cruz. (I would like to see a veteran leader brought in to anchor the rotation like a Radke, or Jack Morris, or Bert Blyleven). By signing those players they don’t trade any prospects, and don’t disrupt the flow of their progress, or change the growing process of the organization. Just enhance it so that more people know the Twins in Asia, and South and Central America where we might start getting top flight kids looking at us instead of the White Sox!
I hope we all have a long time to live.
I get your comment on old vs young players. Seems like he couldn’t win if he tried (and he very well may have tried).
I don’t think that Gomez is a waste at all. I think he has the “IT factor” which I can’t explain, but when he plays people can’t seem but to have to watch to see what he’s going to do.
I will disagree with the Ellsbury comment though. He’s 21 months older than Gomez. He is a polished base stealer, and reminds me of a Brett Butler kind of guy… He is never going to be Rickey Henderson, but he is going to be a solid 280-290 hitter with a .375 OB% with 40-60 steals a year. Gomez could steal 100 bases if he figured out how to get on base… so Gomez potential is HUGE HUGE HUGE over Ellsbury.
For me the key was Lowrie… that kid is going to be a batting champ in the next 5-6 years. He is supposed to have the best batting eye of any Red Sox minor leaguer since Boggs, and he’s a double hitting machine. As a switch hitter putting him eventually between Mauer and Morneau at the 3 spot in the lineup would have been a dream for me.
I admit I’m not always right. I was one of the people who screwed up on Encarnacion), but I have a decent track record for picking out star young players (and profitting off of them in baseball cards, and in fantasy leagues), plus as I said before it was my job to judge talent… so my qualifications don’t make me GM material… doesn’t necessarily mean I’m wrong for being opinionated, lol.
Now the suffering is over for everyone… I’m going home. I have to spend some time with the family… maybe watch a movie? After reading all the heated comments towards me over the last few days (not tonight), but in general… I think I will watch THE JERK
BC Beneke
BC,
Try this on for size.
I seriously doubt, despite protestations to the contrary, that Bill Smith expected the Twins to seriously contend in 2008.
Hunter was gone, Santana HAD to be dealt. There is no way he could attempt a season of Santana after watching him sulk and quit after the Castillo trade.
I am not sure that the Garza/Young trade was contingent on Hunter going elsewhere, so I will presume it was free standing.
Livan…With Santana & Silva gone, AND Liriano coming off surgery, Livan was signed to mentor the young pups. Baker has @1 year of ML experience, Perkins, Liriano & Slowey had less than 1/2 years of ML experience each and Blackburn was a rookie. Bonser also has a bit more than 1 year experience. If you get past the stats, Livan did the job he was hired to do very well.
By signing Everett & Lamb, Smith was demonstrating that he was not confident that there were ready in house solutions, yet he didn’t want to get caught up with longer term and more costly deals that Free agents would require. Everett was injured most of the year, so it did not work. Lamb had been consistent, and he didn’t live up to past performance.
Monroe is the one which had me scratching my head, yet presuming he was supposed to be a power bat off the bench.
ALL of these signings can be credited individually with bringing some wins. Probably can also be credited with causing some losses.
Did theyALL work out? No, but for the purposes they were signed, on balance it was probably at worst a wash.
Regards,
ps: I think giving Hunter a 4/5 year deal or Santana a 6/7 year deal would have bordered on criminal.
dragon-BC and other posters are convinced that the Red Sox and Yanks deals were etched in stone because Hank Steinbrener said so.His middle name is BS.Theo Epstein would never talk about a deal before it was done He has to deal with these other GM’s on other deals.Let’s wait 3 years before we judge the Young and Johan trades.I wonder if they are still complaining on the Astros blogs for losing Johan to Rule5 eight years ago
The only move I felt was a mistake from Day 1 in 2007 was signing Lamb. The Twins were willing to have confidence in Kubel enough to give him regular DHing time, but for whatever reason weren’t willing to do the same for Buscher.
If the team was going to rebuild, they should’ve stuck with that plan and not signed Lamb. They’d have Monroe/Kubel as the primary bench/DH combo. (And to be fair, Monroe had a number of very big hits off the bench during his time with the Twins)
I will never be convinced that the Red Sox deal was ever on the table. I do believe however that the Yankees designs for Santana were completely sincere.
But ultimately I think they either overvalued their own talent or they undervalued Santana.
But if you think the Young/Garza trade was a disaster, look at the bullet dodged by the Twins when they passed on Hughes or Kennedy. Both players ended up melting down almost embarassingly.
Imagine that happening in 08 for the Twins…
BC-The main guy in the speculated Johan package with Boston in your view before the Mets trade was made was Ellsbury,i suppose based on his playoff success last year.Now that he had only a average season and Lowie surprised a lot of people,Lowie becomes the most important component in the failed trade.Somewhat convenint!
Stop hating on DY. He will be an all-star someday soon. He has more power then Morneau right now. He just needs to learn how to unleash it.
Then DY needs to somehow learn to hit 20+ HR’s and Kubel needs to get hurt. Then DY can become the full time DH. But right now with an extra outfielder, he has no business being in the field taking away reps from guys that should be out there.
Delmon probably will get better as a hitter as he ages, but he will only get worse defensively. If he becomes an all star it should be as DH.
I would not do the Young Garza trade if I had to do it again. That being said, I dont know if it was a bad decision at the time, the twins had lots of young pitching and very little offense. And I think it still could turn out OK. Young was not a bad peformer, and had many hits.
You got that right, GENO. BC Beneke (who apparently is incapable of constructing a sentence without the word “I” or “me” in it) had Ellsbury, a decent player, puffed up as if he was already greater than Joe DiMaggio and Willie Mays combined. But there’s more than a little revisionist history going on these days.
Mauer and Morneau are in their prime, and Nathan is approaching the end of his prime. If they don’t get them some help this year and next, they will have wasted their window of opportunity at some point. Do you want 1-3 years of help with them, or do you want more years?
I’m not going to get into the past, but I’d deal DY now, while some people still think he has value. He isn’t going to learn to hit the ball in the air magically (2nd highest percent of balls in play were grounders in all teh majors), so deal him now.
I’m not into name calling, but to paraphrase, I see BC Beneke as the Kevin McHale of bloggers.
I am so thankful for this much interest in the Twins in the off-season.
I don’t think the Pohlad boys will make the PR mistakes their father made.They promised to spend money if they got a new ball park.As BC stated,they saved money last year.Other than CC and Manny,not many free-agents will be over paid.If you want a honeymoon period for the first 3 years of the new park,you better pony up Pohlad boys because we are wathing.
ops-watching
Lets not drive DY (or Gomez) out of town. As someone else mentioned, DY played on a bad ankle the second half and still generated more power than the first half. saw hime twist it once going 2 to 3rd and was surprised he stayed in. I think he gets roasted b/c he nots much of a personality. So what?
He’s 22 y.o. 300 batter doing better than Puckett or Hunter at the same age. His power will come and then we’ll be kicking ourselves if we didnt keep him. Switch him to RF.
Lets have some patience people! who did we have before DY and who did we have to take over for the HORRIBLE LF we let go to Japan???? it was a good trade with an eye for the future.
What is this about “trade DY because people may think he has value”.
Delmon Young DOES have value. He’s an inexpensive young hitter who had a bad season.
What are people going to be saying next year when the league adjusts to Longoria…
Geno you are the one that’s not on.
The Twins needed a CF, and that was the key component of the trade. So the focal person was Ellsbury, and he always will be the number one person in that trade idea. The guy I was most excited about was Lowrie because I was told by friends of mine that have seen him play that he was a fantastic hitter. Somewhere between Kevin Seitzer and Wade Boggs were their evaluation… they called him a doubles machine, but that he couldn’t field for crap. Stone hands, and an eratic arm, but that he’d been working on it pretty hard. A self made fielder that just didn’t want to embaress himself defensively.
At no point in time did I take the focus off of Ellsbury. We needed a CF, and a leadoff hitter, and he was, and is a better option at that combo than Gomez ever will be. Gomez may develop power and be middle of the lineup guy, he may also become the best defensive CF in the game which I didn’t know at the time. However for a complete package that was ready for the game right now… that was Elsbury, and I still stand behind rather having him than Gomez.
I also was wrong on Denard Span… after he had Laszic Eye Surgery he became a completely different hitter last year, and proved me wrong which is always a good thing it gives people like you something to shoot at me, but I am not saying that Lowrie was the key to the trade. I said I was most excited about him. I penciled him as the 2nd half starter at SS or 3rd base for the Twins by the end of last year if they traded for him. And if I wouldn’t have convienently been so dirt poor and gone through foreclosure on my home I would have been online telling you and everyone else from August through October how great Lowrie was.
It’s not that I’m always right. I predicted Mike Kingery (a minnesotan by the way) former Royals prospect was going to win a batting title, and would be a 30-40 doubles a year kind of guy. Also showing my age here was talking up a kid in 1984 from the Reds minor leaguers while everyone was getting excited on Eric Davis I was talking about a couple of other kids Kal Daniels and Paul O’Neill. Kal blew out his knees and didn’t end up being much of anything, and Paul never had the power that he displayed in the minors back then. He became my 2nd favorite Yankee of all time (behind Mattingly), but I was wrong, everyone else was right on Eric Davis. Oh well, that’s part of having an opinion, but don’t tell me what I said on Lowrie then or now. He’s a kid capable of winning a batting title, but he could also be an Edgar Martinez because he can’t field very well at all.
T, Regarding Delmon at 22: .290/.336/.405 is a “bad” season? Sheesh.
T-
Overall Young didn’t have a “bad” year in the way of a sophomore slump which I think you are referring to with Longoria.
Young showed no growth as a hitter. He swung at the first pitch so often that I would imagine if they have a stat on it that he lead the league by a 2-1 margine.
I think he would have been better in RF when Cuddy got hurt as well, but Gardy felt it might be too much for him?
Young does have value because if anything guys like Jack Cust and Hamilton in Texas showed that some guys take years to mature as people to allow their baseball talents to come through. Young has more physical ability than any other outfielder on this team. I don’t question his talent at all.
That’s the big difference in my eyes between him and Garza getting back to that. Garza would blow up stubborn on the mound because he thought he knew better, and was always trying to be the very best he could be, and the funny thing is that Garza seems to be his worst enemy because he’s not smart enough to think for himself as a pitcher.
Delmon didn’t get upset, rarely smiled, seemed fairly disinterested, and had no fire or desire at all. Delmon seems to live in Delmon World where he is already Ted Williams and Hank Aaron combined and that we should all be grateful for the 9-10 homers he hits, and not worry about his inability to play LF.
It’s not his ability I question… He reminds me of the kids in school who are super gifted when they are young, and when they get older they can’t handle the new stuff and never developped a work ethic to be able to get better, and they fall behind, and drop out as a “that kid could have been great” failure story.
Geno-
I’m not even asking/demanding that they go after BIG BIG free agents. Just fill the holes with the best talent that they can, and money should not be a huge worry for them since they have saved significant dollars, and generated more revenue last year than 2007, and MUCH more than they projected at the beginning of the season due to the team’s surprise greatness in 08.
1- SS
2- RP
3- 3B
4- middle of the lineup bat that could be filled smartly with 1 or 3.
We have 7 starters on the staff right now with Boof and Humber plus our starting 5 on the MLB roster. We also have 3 in AAA that are on the doorstep, and 3 guys in AA that are top prospects
3 guys in high A that project to be MLB starters, and we always have great low A and rookie ball pitchers because of where they play (grand canyon and Yellowstone Park are the only parks that are bigger… see I can joke too). We have 5 MLB OF’s for 4 positions, and we have Pridie in AAA that could be a good 4th or 5th OF if need be. We also have our top two prospects in the minors as OF’s. One is projected to be a prototype leadoff hitter, and the other is the most dynamic OF prospect the team may have had since Puckett (I know too early to heap that kind of praise)… so it’s just logical to think OF and P trades to solve the problems…
BUT we can’t discount just going out and buying them as well because that wouldn’t screw up the system at all, and would give all the kids a chance to grow!
Blake at 3rd, Cabrerra at SS, Juan Cruz at RP (great setup potential), Brad Lyon (quality reliever)… 3 of those 4 guys could be had for about 20 million dollars added onto the cap. That’s a lot of money but it’s not like who ever is going to sign Manny, CC, or Texiera… that’s 22-25 million per year per player! the 20 million for the Twins completes the entire TEAM! not one player.
Just read a rumor that if the Yankees don’t get CC that they are going to go after both Lowe and Burnett.
Personally I think I’d rather go after Lowe and Burnett, and fill that rotation if I were the Yankees. That Rotation fell apart last year, and Pettitte might sign with the Dodgers now, and Mussina retired.
The Staff as it is right now might be better than the Orioles in the East, but no one else. They need 2-3 starters, and a middle reliever.
Jabba, and the other kid the Twins wanted so bad last year are not going to make it in 2009. Jabba will get hurt… he is not athletic, and going from relief to starter isn’t easy… and the kid that’s name escapes me is an injury magnet.
BC,
Interesting take on Young.
I don’t know what season you watched last year, from what I saw, D Young made great strides from the 1st half to the second half of the year.
It is probably an excuse, yet I look at a 22 year old adapting to life changes and surviving as a plus.
I realize it’s an AMAZING fact, but there are a few baseball players who have not batted .600 for a season, nor hit 80 Hr’s, of even had 240 RBI by the age of 22(maybe 8% or so). Some are so pathetic, like one of my all time favorites, Kirby Puckett who were so talentless that they couldn’t even make it to the ML until 24.
Will D Young reach his max? I don’t have a clue, should he be an energizer bunny like Gomez, maybe, yet he had a very good 2nd half of the season. In 2006 most Twins fans thought it wonderful Morneau (finally) had a great 2nd half. I guess if Justin had done that at 22, we all would have complained.
Regards,
BC,
The problem with free agents is that NONE of them are young. MOST are expecting 4/5 year or longer contracts, so your 20 mill per year, IF they could be had for that, projects out 4/5 years, the last year or 2 or 3, long after they have ceased to be cost productive. So a couple years down the road we could be eating 8/10/15 million in contracts, and there was angst and anger eating 5/6 mil over 2008 & 2009 due to the last years signings. Maybe the thinking is that 5/6 mil is bad, but 12/15 mil means we have arrived.
IF, you could get them on 1 or 2 year contracts, I would be gung ho, in the current system, not so much.
Regards,
Dragon…
Point well taken, and that always makes me wonder why owners and agents don’t rethink the money on contracts for older players.
I am bias as heck, but I like my idea on Casey Blake.
7.5 million in 2009, 7.0 in 2010, and 5.5 million in 2011
This style of deal makes the player get their money, and it makes it easier for them to be moved to a contender, or put a nice buyout on the 3rd year of a deal, the Twins don’t seem to play ball in the free agency like any of the big boys, or medium boys.
But Blake wants 3 years, Cabrerra 4 years, and I haven’t heard anything on Cruz
BC-Gomez will have a better career than Ellsbury!
T, Regarding Delmon at 22: .290/.336/.405 is a “bad” season? Sheesh.
I neglected to wrap “bad” in finger quotes.
Move Cuddy to 3rd. Move Cassila to SS & Tolbert to 2nd. Span to left & DY to right. Trade for the BEST RH power bullpen arm as the 8th inning guy. If cuddy bombs at 3rd by mid-season, Hughes or Valencia may be ready. Cuddy is a younger version of Blake & we already have him signed. Blake is no great shakes as a 3b glove & can fill in at 1st & RF. Can anyone say Cuddy? Blake will probably hit around .280 & hit about 20 homers with more SO than Walks. Can anyone say Cuddy? Cassila has experience under his belt & should be able to handle the switch to SS. Tolbert has more range & can turn the DP better than Harris. He is a better hitter than Punto (was) & adds more speed to the lineup. Span is faster than Young & LF is larger than RF, hence the switch. Trade some excess starting pitching (not the starting 5) & prospect(s) for a DYNAMITE power arm setup guy. Scoring runs was not what kept us out of the playoffs last year, it was the bullpen. The bullpen should be the focus of needed improvement. Boy, spring training can’t start soon enough!
Oh yes, keep a defensive whiz to replace Cuddy in the field in the 8th or 9th inning when we are leading. & there should be a cheaper option out there than re-signing Punto.
BC Beneke says:
“Young showed no growth as a hitter. He swung at the first pitch so often that I would imagine if they have a stat on it that he lead the league by a 2-1 margine. ”
BC and all the DY haters - here’s something for you to “chew on”:
count and DY’s batting average -
0-0 - .311
0-1 - .309
1-0 - .452
wow!! maybe he should have swung MORE times early in the count. maybe DY should listen to you less. i’m sure he doesnt have enough to worry about to stop and explain himself to you…
BC,
The Twins NOT playing in Free agency, you seem to see as an indictment, I see it as a compliment.
IF, the Twins were ONE player/hole away, I’m all for looking seriously to free agency to fill that hole.
You have identified 3 needs, which I can agree with at some level. YET, you have missed alot more questionmarks. The Starting Pitching, last year did very well with extremely young staff. Does this group take another step forward? Maybe. Do they as a group stagnate? Maybe. Do they as a group regress to some degree? Maybe. Baker, hopefully will stay the same or progress. Liriano, is the largest questionmark in my mind. His injury issues throughout his career would put him at the top of my trade list, NOT because I don’t like him, it’s rather when not if the next injury happens. I would hope/expect him to progress. Slowey, as ALL the other starters, needs a bit more consistency, I put him as stagnant, maybe slight regression. Blackburn, seemed the most consistant of the bunch, but by no means the most spectacular. Probable what we saw is what we’ve got. Perkins, his record was better than his performance IMHO, and I’ll take it. Bonser is probably like Garza, will do well, probably not in Minnesota.
On balance, I don’t expect much more from the starting pitching then we got last year. Is that enough?
The Youngsters, same thoughts come to mind. Will they progress, plateau or regress? Span, from a 1st round BUST as repeatedly stated on these blogs less than 1 year ago. Looked very professional in his 1/2 year. Is that real or a tease? Don’t know, I think the FO should schedule EVERYONE in the organization for Lasik surgery (get a quantity discount). I’ll give Span a plateau to slight regression. Casilla, worries me. He started fast, and gradually settled. Was that the injury? Don’t know. Gomez, as most, his energy is infectuous, his defense is good, AND he seemed to do well in the 9 hole. IF, someone can take maybe 5-8% off the emotional side of his play, I think the sky’s the limit. I think last year is Gomez floor, I think he progresses, the question is how much. D. Young, The “NEW” Nick Punto (palpable blog hate). Like Gomez, last year is his floor, will his 2nd half carry over? Does he have it in his head (ala Santana) that he is a slow starter, and plays to that Belief? The real question with DY is how do you define progress? More power, more average? more RBI?
Tolbert, Not enough info.
On my personal Christmas Free Agent wish list (yes I do have one), IF the FO could be convinced that his injury issues were a one of a kind, and unlikely to be chronic, I would put Furcal at the top of my list, he is 31 (I believe) so a 4 year contract would end at 35. Yea, I’d pay the piper. IF, Furcal could be acquired, then I’d look to 3rd, IF a 3yr max contract could be had. I like Blake, and quite frankly there’s not much else out there.
For the bull-pen, I trade. It may be a faulty memory, yet Free agent bull-pen help, doesn’t seem to work out that well.
Regards,
Young- a 22 yr. old who hits .290 and can run and throw with a good upside. What’s the problem? Still not sure why we don’t try Cuddyer once again at 3rd or 2nd and move Casilla to short. Tolbert will add pop and speed to the lineup. Luke Hughes will be this year’s sleeper and Danny Valencia will be ready in a year to two. Saw him at Ft. Myers before he got a promotion to New Britain. He is a player. Anthony Slama and Rob Delaney may make the Twins pen this year. We’re in good shape without a trade or FA signing.
One other thought.
IF the continued asking price in a big trade for SS or 3B is one of Baker, Liriano or Slowey.
The Orioles have a December 12th decision on Daniel Cabrera. Will they release him? Oh so much talent, and the Orioles have NEVER seemed to get to him. Could Anderson put together the jig-saw puzzle which is Daniel Cabrerra’s mind together?
Just wondering.
Regards,
People wondering about a “cheap Punto” need look no further than Tolbert. 
dragon-imo,we should not trade Lirano because his trade value would be undervalued.He was a throw in the AJ trade for that very reason(healty arm concerns).Anyway,he is our only real ace.Baker is ok as a #2 guy.not a ace.
I think the key to the off-season is Bill Smith made so many horrible moves last year with Monroe, Lamb, Everett, Livan, Guardado, and the insane Garza/Bartlett trade and the Gomez and 3 stiffs for Santana deal, that he is going to be very, very cautious and thus will let player after player who could help the Twins slide away.
Smith thinks the real key to this season is to re-sign Punto and Reyes, not bring any right handed power hitters to play third, left field or short, leave the bullpen as is with Guerrier, Crain, Bonser and memories of Neshek.
He needs to be canned if he doesn’t turn around all his inept, incompetent and insane moves last year.
Although i don’t think we should trade DY unless someone over pays for him.there was speculation on another blog.DY for Escobar straight up or DY for Madsen,Carrasco and Donald of the Philles(although we would have to add to it).In either case we could always add Burrell as a free agent.
GENO,
Finally another proponent for Burrell…lsts start a grassroots movement!!!
Our number one need is to strengthen the bullpen. I don’t see a strong upgrade within the system. Sounds like a trade is in order.
“Tolbert will add pop…to the lineup.”
What?!?
Only if he brings in a 12 pack.
Tampa Bay gets props for getting a psychologist to get Garza straightened out- What scares me is that they didn’t get DY fixed, lol. There is a big article on him in “Hardball Times” that says what you see is for the most part what you will get- which isn’t all that terrible. It was his first yr in lf, I think the routes will improve. Ah, if Cuddyer could only play 3B! Sign Punto for UT money- a good deal. If we get a good basher at 3b, even a juan castro type will keep the pitching up to par, though we gotta get BP help, even if crain returns to form post-injury
The Twins always seem to make the same mistakes in the off season by acquiring a veteran starter. It has never helped them. I seriously doubt that they need to continue making the same mistake when they have a considerable abundance of young solid pitchers on the roster. As far as third base goes, I don’t think the Twins need to spend money or make a deal for anyone who is not going to be very very good and around for a long time. Buscher/Harris can hold down third base for a year or less. The Twins have both Hughes and Valencia in the minors, both capable of becoming outstanding permanent third basemen with power. Hughes can adapt to second base and Valencia is the third baseman. The only acquisitions the Twins need to make may be to strengthen the bullpen.
Cuddyer and Punto should definately be traded to clean up the roster. Keeping players like them around only clouds the road to improvement.
they cant trade Punto he is a freeagent Cuddyer i would go with backup DH and4th outfielder
herby,
Kenny Rogers was a good free agent signing in 2003.
Danimals…
Where did you find that stat on Delmon Young on 0/0,1/0, and 0/1?
If those stats are true (which I have a hard time believing) then think about the quality. If he is settling for a bloop single, when he could work a count and get better pitches to drive the ball…
The other thing here is AT NO POINT IN TIME HAVE I SAID THE TWINS SHOULD TRADE AWAY DELMON YOUNG! I said that their are rival GMs that are saying that Young is being shopped aggressively by Bill Smith which is a good sign that he’s willing to admit his mistake, and makes Carl Crawford and the D.Rays look like they were right… getting rid of D.Young was addition by subtraction.
IF I were in charge with the roster that we have (and adding no one)
Span CF
Casilla 2B
Mauer CA
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer LF
Kubel DH
Young RF
Buscher/Harris 3B
Tolbert SS
I would put Gomez in AAA. I never said trade Young just to trade him. He’s 22 and you give him the opportunity to do better. If you are having to trade him to improve our position in SS or 3B then you look at it, but Young is not my choice of guys to trade.
I am saying I think that trading Garza for him was a bad move straight up, and even worse when you look at the 3/3 aspect of it. That’s all I’ve been saying I would rather have Garza than Young. Young’s defense is weak (his arm is strong), his natural skills are awesome… is he coachable at all?
which is a good sign that he’s willing to admit his mistake
That to me sounds like you want Young gone. Since you’re calling him a mistake.
Also, I’d recommend people ignore Schizo Herb. He posts the same two ideas (under about 10 different names). You can tell when its him because no matter how many times you remind him he constantly pushes to trade Free Agent Nick Punto.
That should be further demonstration that the guy is a troll and should be banned if it all possible.
And for the record, that was ME making that post as Shaitan. I have no idea how his account info ended up in my fields.
Something up with the server no doubt.
BC,
What would be the benefit of starting Gomez in AAA? It’s not going to help him hit major league breaking balls and I doubt if he will be able to learn patience facing AAA pitching everyday.
Dragon -
I did mention I wouldn’t mind them going after a veteran starter. Putting a claimer on Smoltz or Glavine with an incentive laiden contract to be the veteran arm. You don’t have to pay through the teeth for them, if they are healthy you get not only a veteran leader, but you free up one of the younger guys (Perkins for the pen, or Blackburn or Slowey in a trade)… that would be best of both worlds.
An off the wall dream:
Use kubel and an arm as trade bait for Dan Uggla. Move Casilla to SS.
Sign Adam Dunn to DH
Make a push for 2009 title. This team is very close.
GCO,
Do you think the Marlins have a big need a DH like Kubel in the NL?
I think he has been know to play OF from time to time…
Shaitan.
I think trading for him in the first place was a huge mistake. We needed a CF, and we needed a 3rd Baseman, and a power hitter… We could have went after BJ Upton or Carl Crawford, and settled for Young. I would have liked to have gotten Young if it was for less than Garza, Bartlett, and Mourlan.
GCOkemos…
I haven’t seen anything on anyone showing any interest in Kubel. By us DHing him all the time it has really lowered his trade value.
It’s the same thing with trying to trade Delmon Young now. Just because he was a mistake doesn’t mean we have to trade him now. I’d rather see them trade Cuddyer.
BC,
“We could have went after”
Keep your editor on the payroll.
BC Beneke says: By us DHing him all the time it has really lowered his trade value….I’d rather see them trade Cuddyer.
And increased his waist value…Cuddy’s stock is pretty low as well.
Which would lower Kubel’s trade value more?
1) DH’ing him;
or
2) Exposing his lack of outfield skills by playing him in the OF.
And could Kubel’s reconstructed knee have stood up this long if he had been playing in the outfield daily?
In 2007 Kubel had two errors in 700 innings of work in LF with a FP of .988.
And he has a solid arm. Granted he has inflated since his switch to DH, which will restrict his range a bit.
If you have no range, your error total will be significantly lower.
You can’t boot what you can’t reach.
sane: It depends on which league your trying to trade Kubel too.
I’d imagine somebody in the NL (Colorado, Florida, San Diego) would be far more interested in a decent OF than a DH. Where as an AL team would be more willing to take on a slugging DH (provided they consider Kubel to be that)
We could have went after BJ Upton or Carl Crawford, and settled for Young.
Was either available from Tampa?
crawford 26 8.25m in 09; 8 hr 57 rbi, .273/.319/.400
upton 23 .500m +/- 09; 9 hr 67 rbi, .273/.383/.401
young 22 .700m 09; 10 hr 69 rbi, .290/.336/.405
doesn’t look like a lot to bicker over between these guys except crawford gets a lot more money, young doesn’t smile enough.
grass always looks greener …..
T,
The original suggestion was Kubel + arm for Uggla which won’t fly unless the Marlins want to trade a good hitting -average fielding infielder for a good hitting - average fielding outfielder.
Sounds like a bad trade for the Marlins to me.
T—
If you can’t get the best players you shouldn’t settle for the leftovers.
Crawford was available because of his attitude against the organization, and his pending free agency at the time after 2009.
BJ Upton was not for grabs, but that doesn’t mean you settle. If you can’t get the best player, you shouldn’t trade your best prospect.
Sane:
Dont the Marlins have a logjam in the infield and a need for an OF?
I think this trade could be a fit for both teams. Especially if we threw in a pitcher.
Actually if you factor in positions, Uggla is a very good hitter for a second baseman, while Kubel is an average hitter for a corner outfielder.
Sane,
Uggla is not an average fielder. Not a lot for range, and his arm has never been all that strong or the Marlins would move him to 3rd base. But I’d take him here… I love that bat, lol.
Interesting,
We have Young, we don’t have Garza. From my perspective that’s just fine.
GENO mentioned above a thought/speculation of D. Young for Escobar trade. I covet Escobar, and he fills a need, Not sure that’s fair value for D. Young, yet might be.
IF, D. Young was what it takes, I’d consider it (if I were making the decision) since, until injury, we are flush in OF’s, although I’d try for a bit less.
In theory, we have some pitching which might be tradable. Say a package of Perkins/Blackburn, Deunsing (sp), Humber/Mulvey for Uggla.
For BC…I see no reason for Gomez in AAA.
Regards,
Dragon,
Gomez to the minors….
1) Young, Span, Cuddyer is the best starting outfield we can put together
2) Gomez is too inconsistant though he has star potential
3) He is closing in on having enough atbats, and games played to be arbitration eligable, and the Twins ownership is cheap as hell, and his agent is Boras.
4) I just want to see him get the most at bats he possibly can get, and I think he needs to learn about quality atbats, and maybe just maybe a demotion will motivate him.
GCO,
I agree, but I don’t think Kubel is the best that the Marlins can get for Uggla.
I don’t think the Marlins have any real interest in Kubel, but I bet they have other targets in mind while shopping an all-star second-baseman.
I guess I’m trying to say that the Marlins must be aiming higher. (and probably younger)
I’ve never made this kind of post before.
Based on my post above:
1B Morneau
2B Uggla
SS Escobar
3B Blake
RF Cuddyer
CF Gomez
LF Span
C Mauer
DH Kubel
One might be able to make a decent line-up out of that.
Regards,
Dragon…
That would be an excellent lineup.
What would happen with Casilla?
Casilla, Super-Utility.
Dragon,
make it happen and I will have to work hard to find something to complain about with the Twins.
BC-
the dome is around for one more year…
Dragon,
I would prefer to keep Young (no Escobar trade); play Casilla at SS instead of Escobar; play Young in RF instead of Cuddyer; and trade Cuddyer plus multiple pitchers for Uggla.
That’s just me. (without the Marlins consent)
Sane,
I could live with that as well.
Actually, maybe if they had speed-cloneing, could get a replica Harmon for 3B, his 1st position if I remember correctly.
Regards,
Dragon,
Gardy would never play Harmon at 3B.
Screw the 45HR’s, the 130 RBI, the MVP.
We need someone to “catch the ball” like Nicky.
@ Sane: But Cuddy is even older (and more expensive) than Kubel. I think the Marlins would rather have Kubel + Blackie/Perkins. Plus that frees up DH for Dunn to slide right in.
Would we really NOT sign Dunn because of a draft pick? That boggles my mind.
How much is Dunn asking?
expected to be in the $13-$16MM/per area. Twins hand out those contracts all the time. Good thinking guys!
Sane,
Since it’s a ways back, but I don’t remember Harmon as being a horrid 3B, maybe he was, Looks like he was a butcher in 1959.
Regards,
GCO,
My Cuddyer plus multiple pitchers for Uggla was a suggestion that I don’t think the Marlins would accept, either.
I was just wishin’ and hopin’.
To not sign Dunn because of a 50% unsuccesssful 1st round draft pick is assinine.
Even if successful, that draft pick (if another HS star) would reach the Twins after M&M are headed downhill - window closed!
Dragon,
Harmon was slow but had a strong arm.
He was OK, but would just not reach Gardy’s high standards as a 3B. (Good glove but no bat - like himself)
Jon Says:
expected to be in the $13-$16MM/per area. Twins hand out those contracts all the time. Good thinking guys!
Perhaps the idea isn’t as bad as the twins cost-first M.O. - which is a reality, I understand. But if they ever had the reason / financial flexibility to make such a move - now would be it (at least from what I can see).
They’re going to need that financial flexibility to resign this guy named Mauer.
harmon’s .940 fp at 3b? not with gardy! i doubt harmon ever slide into 1b either. for a slap hitting batttler, that gets after it and only scuffles a
little it would be ok.
lets trade punto, everett and reyes for uggla!
GCOkemos
Dunn is looking for about 15 million a year, and wants a 5-8 year deal.
I can’t imagine the backlash when they lowball Mauer when he’s a free agent.
He will be asking for 5 years at 16 million a year, and the twins will over 3 years at 14 million, and the Red Sea will part, and baby Jesus will either walk across the waves on the left or the right while the Pohlads are swallowed up in a sea of their own green.
Where does Mauer go when he becomes a free agent? lol.
Mauer would go to the Yankees if he left
that would be ashame if they low ball Mauer. With Posada, an over the hill, average catcher at best making $14MM, I think 5 years and $90MM for Mauer won’t be unrealistic.
I will wager a modest sum that Mauer gets a new deal by the end of January. Smaller wager that Baker get’s one as well. I think Liriano, maybe Slowey and Young, will be taken care of next off-season, if he has no injury problems this coming year.
That was the beauty of last off-season. LT deals to Morneau & Cuddyer. While the Cuddyer deal looks bad due to injury, the concept is great.
Regards,
Mauer won’t be lowballed as a FA.
They will try to renew him one year early ala Johan.
If he turns the Twins down, they will try to trade him before the fans burn the new stadium to the ground.
i would agree with Dragon, that Mauer and Baker should be addressed this offseason.
When will Punto get resigned without him the infield defense will be beyond lost?
Stop bad mouthing the Pohlads; when the Twins average over 34K a game, then the team can spend. For how many games did you bloggers buy tickets?
Keep Delmon; that’s a no brainer. His 3-run HR off of Mariano Rivera says enough for me. He’ll hit for power and average, in the clutch. KEEP HIM!
Maybe Punto’s 2007 year was a fluke. He’s versatile and worth keeping at his price.
Cuddyer, Perkins, Bonser, and some propect for either Hardy or Atkins, but there’s no way the Twins will get both of them. Would hate to see Cuddy go, but…
Otherwise, is Revere ready?
Try Mulvey in place of Guerrier or one of the other prospects. Remember, both Lohse and Santana pitched out of the bullpen when first brought up by the Twins.
Boston never offered anything for Santana. Remember, Boston plays MoneyBall. Thank goodness the Twins passed on Hughes and Kennedy.
Hey, Bloggers, buy some tickets this year. I live in NJ and probably see more games in the Dome than most of you and I buy the tickets.
