Arbitration roundup, potential Twins target edition
Posted on December 2nd, 2008 – 9:25 AMBy Joe Christensen
Unless free agent prices plummet, the Twins have no intention of signing a Type A free agent who was offered arbitration Monday. They value their draft picks too much to give up next year’s first rounder.
The Twins are looking to add bullpen help and bolster their infield at third base, shortstop and/or second base. Type B free agents – such as Casey Blake, who was offered arbitration by the Dodgers, and Dennys Reyes, who was offered arbitration by the Twins — generate a supplemental round pick for the team that loses them, but teams that sign them do not lose a pick.
MLBTradeRumors.com has an updated look at the entire free agent class here. But let’s focus on Monday’s Type A decisions with an eye toward how they could affect the Twins.
Type A free agents who were offered arbitration
(In other words, cross them off the list)
Orlando Cabrera, SS, White Sox
Juan Cruz, RH reliever, Diamondbacks
Brian Fuentes, LH reliever, Rockies
Orlando Hudson, 2B, Diamondbacks
Darren Oliver, LH reliever, Angels
Francisco Rodriguez, RH reliever, Angels
Type A free agents who weren’t offered arbitration
(Twins’ interest might grow because these signings won’t cost a first-round pick)
Doug Brocail, RH reliever, Astros
Trevor Hoffman, RH reliever, Padres
Bob Howry, RH reliever, Cubs
Edgar Renteria, SS, Tigers
Russ Springer, RH reliever, Cardinals
Kerry Wood, RH reliever, Cubs
Note: SS Rafael Furcal is another intriguing free agent who is not a Type A (or Type B, from what I can gather), but he is said to be seeking a four-year deal and has likely priced himself out of the Twins’ range.
199 Responses to "Arbitration roundup, potential Twins target edition"
Thanks, Joe! I had already crossed Orlando off my list!
I’d like to see the Twins look at one of the relievers not offered arbitration.
Looks like we still haven’t added BP help! It could be a long season if we don’t!
Howry or Wood might be good targets for that eighth inning guy.
I don’t know why the Twins would be unable to afford Furcal, in principle. Last year, they only spent their budget if you add in the bonuses to Morneau, Cuddyer and Nathan. This year, they will have a hard time spending their budget unless they sign someone like Furcal with a bonus-laden contract or they acquire someone like Beltre. In the coming years, they will have up to 20 million more to spend on player salaries than they do in 2009. I think they can fit Furcal into their budget if they want to.
shameless,
“Looks like we still haven’t added BP help!”
If we don’t fix the problem by Pearl Harbor Day, we’ll get our butts kicked in the Christmas Tournament.
Jeeze, can anyone here hold their water!
The first phase of the off-season just started YESTERDAY!
I’m concerned Blake will sign on with the intention of destroying the team from the inside out. There are too many parallels between him and Brad Johnson - both jilted numerous times by a Minnesota team only to return to a big contract. We all witnessed the dull mediocrity Brad brought in his steady stealth-like manner.
Brad didn’t have a big contract nor was it his fault that he was old and terrible.
rumor has it that the braves would like to sign furcal but need to trade escobar first. escobar should be near the top of bill smiths to get list, young player to fit into a young team.
may take young, blackburn or perkins with a combo of prospects but it would fill a big hole and he’s still cheap.
Brad Johnson failed.
Therefore Casey Blake will fail.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Reaching for the similarities between those two situations could cause injury.
gobbledygookguy-I agree that Escobar would be a great guy to target.I’m not sure the exact package it would take to get it done but it’s could be worth it.
Brad took us on a 7 game win steak.
I still like Mark Grudzielanek who hit .395 against LHP (MLB-leader, I believe) last year.
Give him the 2B job and move Casilla to SS.
He is 39-yrs-old, so a long term contract is not necessary.
If he is too young, Omar Vizquel (42) is also available.
And if Vizquel is to young, I’m available.
This is one time the twins need to gamble on a free agent. Furcal would be a huge addition to this team, lets show something here and go for it. I think a 3 year deal for 30 million could get it done. If we have to go 4 yrs to beat out the other teams for his services then lets gamble. Just one time it would be fun to sign a legit free agent who could fill a huge need.
I’m surprised Chicago would tease the notion of bringing Cabrera back with what he was saying about them towards the end of the season…
Why all the love for Furcal? I know he’s a good player but he’s not what we need. We need a guy who hits from the right side who can hit the ball out of the park more often than a Buscher, Punto or Everett. We have guys who can run, bunt and all that already. I understand Blake is older than we might like but he’s only 35, that’s not that ancient. If not Blake, a J.J. Hardy trade or an Escobar trade would make me happier because they are young, play SS and in Hardy’s case at least, pops the ball out of the park every now and then. I wouldn’t be that upset if we sign Furcal, but I just don’t think we need him like we could use the other guys.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
Sane your joking about those guys right?
I’m glad Cabrera got offered arb. I would’ve been pissed if that was our middle infield “help”.
Blake is 35 and mediocure. Platoon Buscher and Harris. Should be just as good, cheaper and Buscher has a chance for improvement. Spend excess resources elsewhere, and don’t overpay for mediocure free agents angain and again.
joshs thoughts predicted pretty well I guess…
http://joshsopinion.blogspot.com/2008/12/off-season-looking-clearer.html
Hey T, the White Sox have no intention of bringing back OC. They offered him arbitration so they can get the 2 first round picks , and strengthen their farm sysytem.
BC,
I am definitely NOT joking about Grudzielanek. He is a professional hitter who led MLB vs LHP’s.
He is badly needed in a Span, Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Buscher, Punto (weak RH-hitting switch-hitter) LH batting order.
The Vizquel comment was a joke meant to pre-empt complaints about Grudzielanek’s age.
The question isn’t if we can afford Furcal (we can), it’s if we want to (we don’t). An older player with health issues who missed 90% of last season and who’s looking for at least a 3 year deal (more likely 4) isn’t worth the risk. If he could guarantee 150 games a year for 4 years at the level of production he put out the first month of this season, then by all means, make the leap. Unfortunately, that can’t be guaranteed. I agree with those who want a trade for Escobar, Hardy, or Beltre. In fact, out of those three guys, Smith should just make a deal for the one who costs the least.
Oh, and after you make that trade, you try and convince Wood to set up Nathan and offer him a 3 year deal. THAT’S a gamble that’s worth the risk.
I think it was smart for the Sox to offer Cabrera arb. seeing if he signs elsewhere they would get an extra first round pick, but I do not think many teams will be willing to give up their first round draft pick in order to sign Cabrera. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him stay which could be a bad situation in Chicago with them wanting to move over Ramirez to play SS.
sane we could bring Ozzie Smith out of retirement.
Ozzie could do Back Flips all the way to short. After he is doing the move that got him into the HOF he could give the biggest fakest grin the fans could handle. Next he would make a play like Punto could make and everyone would chear for his Punto like play.
I for one an happy that Cabrera was offered arbitration by the White Sox. He wasn’t drawing all that much interest to begin with, and this will only lessen that. I look forward to him being an $8 million malcontent on the South Side next year, destroying their chemistry and holding back Ramirez.
Grudzielanek story:
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081201&content_id=3697379&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc
sane what about Jeff Kent?
jimmy,
Grudz is my choice.
Why are you throwing all those other names at me?
sane -
While Grudz may have lead the league against lefties last year, he did it in fewer than 100 PAs. He does hit lefties better than righties in his career, but he hasn’t been healthy in a couple of years. He only played in 202 games in the past 2 years, and hasn’t played in 140+ games since 2002.
So, might I take a 1 year flier on him for a part time bench role? Sure. But I wouldn’t want to give him multiple years, and I’m pretty sure he’ll make more in arbitration than he would with a one year deal with anyone else.
Count me among those rejoicing that the sox offered Cabrera arbitration. It’s mind-boggling that bill smith may have even been considering giving $10 million to a guy who throws his team under the bus and had a lifetime OPS+ of 86. at least this way we won’t blow more money that could be otherwise used….
PeteD,
I would take a one year flyer on him as the REGULAR 2B. (Casilla to SS, Punto to backup SS-2B).
If he wanted more, give him a player option for the second year, or overpay him a little for a one-year deal.
The Twins badly need a PROFESSIONAL RH-hitter, unlike Gomez, DY, Cuddy and the midget switch-hitters.
They better do something major. Nathan can’t last forever, and M&M are in their primes (and healthy, remember, Mauer is a catcher and they tend to break down faster). Now is the time to strike, not in a year or two.
Detroit can’t be that bad again, CLE should be healthy, and KC is young (and should improve, assuming that young players get better over time). Not sure where the Sox are headed…
Pete D,
If you read the article, Grudz wants to contribute to a winner and will decline arbitration from the Royals to settle for less mney from a contender.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081201&content_id=3697379&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc
Joe G.
This team’s first priority is a shortstop who is an upgrade over Punto. The options in this market are limited: You can try to acquire a kid like Escobar and give up Young and Perkins or Slowey in the process, or you can sign a guy like Furcal and only give up dollars. The Twins are swimming in dollars, oddly enough. So Furcal would be my first choice. But, if Atlanta signs him, Plan B would be to acquire Escobar. If Oakland signs Furcal, it’s back to the drawing board.
I thought Bartlett led the league in BA against lefties.
sane -
What makes you think Grudz can last an entire season?
Grudz quote
“I’ve played the game a long time and made a lot of money. It’s part of it, but I’m at the point in my career where it’s time to be in it in September and make a run at it. I’ve been with teams like that, and that’s what it’s all about. I’d like to go out like that”
“…try to acquire a kid like Escobar and give up Young and Perkins or Slowey in the process”
Fill one hole. Create two more.
sane -
Good link. And I would take a chance on him. But I would be really worried about expecting him to be a full time player. Two knee surgeries in 2007 and a sprained ankle that cost him half a season?
No guarantees on anyone lasting an entire season.
Just ask Cuddy.
Of course there are no guarantees. However, there are certain times when you have a pretty good idea that someone won’t make it all the way through. Guys like Ben Sheets, or Nick Johnson. Or guys nearing 40 who have missed significant time in the previous 2 seasons.
Pete D,
Plus we have Punto (if re-signed), Casilla, Tolbert, Tolleson, Plouffe as possible contingency plans, if he gets injured.
The Royals can’t be guaranteed of his durability either, but they still want him back, BADLY.
Are the Twins more conservative than the Royals?
If so, we are all wasting our time!
WalterJ,
At the time Grudz went down, he was leading MLB against LHP’s.
But, if we can get Bartlett back, I’d settle for him - although Grudz is the better hitter.
remember we are in the middle of a recession and uncle carl has probably lost a billion bucks over the past few months and he doesn’t like to lose money so don’t be expecting them to spend big $$$ this winter.
some of these free agents could be fairly cheap come feb.
sane I guess that kent is over with the Dodgers. Older but may have an inexpensive year or two left in him and is a RH hitter.
I’ve already said I’d take him. But I don’t view it as a situation of ‘if’ he gets injured. I see it as ‘when’ and wonder how long he will be out. Is it worth it if he misses a month? Two months?
As for the Royals wanting him badly - I hope the Twins don’t make personnel decisions based on what the Royals want. I wouldn’t want Mike Jacobs on my team, wouldn’t have given outrageous money to Jose Guillen and Gil Meche, or played Ross Gload as much as he did.
We gotta get Hardy. I’ve lived in WI for awhile now and have watched Hardy a lot. He’s not the best defensively, but he’s better than Harris and he’s got some serious POP in his bat. Beltre would be second on my list because of his defense. If we can get one of these two guys and some bullpen help, look out.
WalterJ,
Grudz hit .395 vs LHP.
Bartlett hit .379 vs LHP.
The Twins could use both.
Oh, and for those of you wanting Kerry Wood, Sporting News puts his asking price between 8-10million a year, so forget about it. Why would he cost that much? I can’t answer that, but that’s what I’ve read.
Pete D,
You may view it as a certainty that Grudz WILL BE injured, but of course it is NOT a certainty.
Maybe he will become more durable with old age, like Paul Molitor.
PLEASE Twins do not even THINK about Edgar Renteria. PLEASE!
Furcal is a no-brainer as far as I’m concerned.
SS is a black hole right now. Even Punto’s off the roster.
Furcal costs nothing but money, and the Twins have money right now. Adding Furcal–without losing ANY players in return–is a damn good risk to take.
The Twins are not that far from being a legit WS contender. Sometimes the stars align and help falls in your lap. You just have to be smart enough to hold onto the help before it falls to the floor and somebody else scoops it up.
Pete D,
If “NOBODY ELSE” wants Grudz, then he will be cheap.
If somebody else wants him, then apparently its not universally viewed as a bad signing.
To me, it is worth the risk - reward tradeoff.
Whoever is cheap and washed up will be who the Twins will sign
“Maybe he will become more durable with old age, like Paul Molitor.”
Only if we move him to full time DH, like Molitor did. And even then, he only averaged 133 games a season over the last 5 years of his career.
And in regard to Bartlett -
Bartlett may have hit .379 against lefties, but he hit .248/.296/.301 against right handers. Doesn’t make it worth it at all. I’ll stick with Harris.
Jimmybee,
Jeff Kent has been the most disliked teammate on his last two teams.
He would retire, except his wife doesn’t want him at home.
What about Tolbert also
sane those wonderfull days in San Fran of Kent and Bonds.
Jimmy Bee:
Paging Omar Vizquel.
jimmybee,
Say something good about the Twins, T-wolves OR Vikings organizations.
OK.
Did your head blow up?
See, its harmless!
sane they do good for a team with a limited payroll. There you go sane. The Wolves I KLove and Jefferson. The Vikings have a great defense with J Allen and are actually leading the division despite having no passing attack. Why so mad sane. Geeez
I like KLove and Jefferson
Oh yeah and I also like Morneau alot despite the fact that after his contract ends he will not be a Twin. I still think he is great
jimmy,
I’m mot mad.
I’m just kidding with you.
sane oh no prob. I actually like the Twins alot and try to watch almost every game all season. I just get tired of small ball mentallity sometimes and want what the other grown up teams have sometimes in a good RH power hitter to bat in between Mauer and Morneau. As for the Wolves I watch them constantly also and even was at the Wolves Suns game to see Shaq.
sane…I believe the term is little people switch hitters.
sane,
You are inviting the wrath of T with all this talk about bringing Bartlett back!
Thanks sane i guess i was still a little groggy when i read you post. You do have a legit argument for Grudz but his age cant be ignored either. This free agent class is not all that exciting except for a few relief pitchers.
I haven’t seen T for a while and I believe he is still around but is using a different Moniker
You are inviting the wrath of T with all this talk about bringing Bartlett back!
Nah, the city of Tampa Bay would never part with their new Golden Child.
However, you could probably sneak Evan Longoria out from underneath the crowd of people hoisting Bartlett up to the heavens. 
Romulus,
Sorry.
Make that power-challenged switch-hitters. My PC-check is not functioning properly.
Walter,
Tell T that I was just kidding.
I really want Grudz.
Bartlett was just a fall-back alternative choice if all else fails.
Sorry.
Not even then!
What ever happened to Tolbert and will he be a starter next year?
Maybe we should try to get Longoria from the Rays. Certainly Bartlett could cover the whole left side of the infield by himself.
Walter J,
If we make an offer for Longoria, maybe the Rays will come clean about how they REALLY FEEL about the Longoria - Bartlett MVP comparison.
They have been hiding the truth for so long, it might ease their guilt at last.
sane a little bit off subject but do you think the team going to LA will be the Rams. I used to like them as a kid.
We should trade Punto to the Rays then they will have competition for Bartlett’s MVP candidacy.
jimmy anyone who watches the wolves constantly needs therapy!
GGG it’s like watching the Washington General’s against the Globetrotters and guess which one the Wolves are
jimmybee,
My guess is that the NFL will not come to LA for a long, long, long time.
And LA could care less.
If the Rays were to offer Longoria OR Bartlett in a trade, how many teams would choose Bartlett?
That’s what I thought.
live chat on mlbrumor now
LA has enough criminals already without adding the roster of an NFL franchise.
WalterJohnson,
Criminals are not a problem.
LA used to have the Raiders.
sane I preffer the “Trader Raider” name or just the “Trader’s”
Punto Watch: Day 18
Still can’t believe nobody has snatched up Nick yet.
Joe, any chance the Twins would finally go after Adam Dunn as a FA, in the case that they do indeed trade Delmon Young? I see that he’s a Type A FA not offered arbitration.
I do fully expect Punto to sign with another team. Then we really need to bring in an infielder. What if Cassila is injured? Tolbert takes over at 2nd, Harris becomes full-time SS and you lose the platoon at 3B. Then Buscher is your full-time 3B. Who is backing up Morneau if he goes down to injury for an extended time? Ruiz? I think it is another reason to keep Cuddyer around. Which also means you need to keep all three outfielders.
Qualler says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Joe, any chance the Twins would finally go after Adam Dunn as a FA, in the case that they do indeed trade Delmon Young? I see that he’s a Type A FA not offered arbitration.
NO!!! We already have one big clunky LF why would we trade for another. Also his avg is the pitts
Also Dunn is slow on the basepaths and would slow us down considerably
If re-signing Punto will prevent the nightmare of Buscher (3B) and Harris (SS) trying to close off the 5-6 hole when we have a sinkerballer (Blackburn) pitching, I will personally contribute to his salary.
Joe, any chance the Twins would finally go after Adam Dunn as a FA… I see that he’s a Type A FA not offered arbitration.
I say do it. I know I have been hounding this blog with my half-cooked idea of trading Kubel and signing Dunn to DH, but the opportunity presented itself again, so I had to.
I used to believe the Twins were actually trying to get to the World Series. But when the moves they make are to sign has-beens and never-weres like this last off season, it’s getting difficult to believe. We need a glove at third with some right handed POP. We need a DH that other teams would consider a middle-of-the-order hitter. We need relief help. We need an everyday shortstop. Any two of these would get us a long way. AND we need to fine anyone dumb enough to slide into 1st base unless actually trying to avoid a tag.
Am I the only Twins fan that thinks Harris should play every day?? Unless we sign/trade for Hardy or Escobar, I think Harris is our best option that’s currently on the roster. Furcal isn’t worth the price and likely wouldn’t stay healthy on the turf.
Platoon Buscher and Harris at 3rd? If we had a real everyday 3rd baseman we would have won the division by 3 games last year. They are good players but not good enough to platoon at 3rd. Remember the last time we got excited about a player at 3rd and what he did in one single season? Punto sure turned out well.
I think we should try Kubel for a whole year at DH. We should try and sign Blake and trade for a SS instead of trading for a 3rd Baseman and a SS
Disillusioned,
I understand what you are saying, and I feel your pain. It seems the Twins are always “one player away” from having a contending team. But, if you are “one player away”, that means you have seven or eight solid pieces to the puzzle already, and the way the Twins got those seven or eight players was through the way they do business. The Twins have shown poorly in the playoffs but I that was not because of a missing piece. It was because the pieces we had underperformed, choked, came down to earth or just ran into bad luck. 2006 team had enough talent and momentum to have gone all the way.
So obviously we are all admitting that we were taken on the Delmon Young deal?
I would like to give him a year or two to really show what he can do. If you are going to trade someone let it be Cuddyer. Overpaid and underachieving.
Adam,
If you are suggesting that Harris is a better SS option than Casilla, then I disagree totally.
But you are NOT the only Twin fan who thinks that.
I will go further to say that the Twins offense in 2008 was good enough to go all the way. The pitching is what really let them down, namely the bullpen, however, the starters’ inability to go deeper in games (and/or Gardy/Andy’s reluctance to let them go deeper into games) put way too much on the pen’s shoulders. So they share the blame. Nathan had six blown saves (one was on Delmon’s head). Franchise completely fell apart in his last start against KC. Blackie in the playoff game was the only pitcher that really stepped up and delivered down the stretch when in mattered.
Twins are cheap and lazy when it comes to FAs. They allow every other team to improve themselves greatly and then the Twins come and fill roster spots with junk.
Note to BS, this is professional sports. The idea is to win now. Waiting 4 years on a 1st round pick that will never amount to anything is absurd. This is the year to solidify the infield and grab Orlando Hudson, trade for a real 3rd baseman, and sign Juan Cruz too.
The Twins have a ton of money to work with and it’s inexcusable that they would penny pinch once again and put yet another mediocre team on the field. Draft picks are needed by teams that are rebuilding, not by teams that want to challenge for the title. It is very telling what the Twins plans are.
Walter i agree with you %100 and I honestly dont think the Twins will know if they are a player or two short or out of completely until after the AS break. None of us knows what next year will bring so to say all we need is a SS and 3b maybe completly wrong.
WJ:
Thats why I am kind of hesitant to trade Blackburn, he proved his mettle in a playoff game / hostile environment.
Walter Johnson says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I will go further to say that the Twins offense in 2008 was good enough to go all the way.
180% wrong. The Twins offense was based on hitting with RISP. Come playoff time, if they had actually made it, they would’ve been swept in the first round. They didn’t have a sustainable offense last year and had no chance to win anything.
Sane,
Who plays 2B then?
BC of ND says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Walter i agree with you %100 and I honestly dont think the Twins will know if they are a player or two short or out of completely until after the AS break. None of us knows what next year will bring so to say all we need is a SS and 3b maybe completly wrong.
I can tell you right now, they are 2 rotation arms, 3 pen arms, and a left side of the infield away from being a World Series contender.
Dan don’t forget a DH also
Dan: 180% wrong. The Twins offense was based on hitting with RISP. Come playoff time, if they had actually made it, they would’ve been swept in the first round. They didn’t have a sustainable offense last year and had no chance to win anything.
HOw can you say that? THey sustained their BA with RISP all year, when all the pundits were claiming that they would come back to earth eventually.
They scored the 3rd most runs in franchise history.
I am not saying this will continue into next year, but it is ridiculous to just assume it wouldn’t have lasted in the playoffs after lasting the whole reg season.
Dan,
If the pitching was fine but the offense unsustainable, why do you believe the solution is to add FIVE pitchers and TWO infielders?
jimmy bee says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Dan don’t forget a DH also
I have no problem with Kubel. They could use a right handed bat though, but if the s and 3b hit right handed, they’d be ok.
Adam,
To play 2B, I would sign Mark Grudzielanek as a FA.
Choice #2 - Re-sign Punto. (I’d do that even if SS was set)
If restricted to players currently under their control, I would look at Matt Tolbert and Steve Tolleson first, then, if desperate, Luke Hughes and Trevor Plouffe.
“The Vikings are only one or two players at each position away from a Super Bowl”
-Dan Cole
Walter Johnson says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Dan,
If the pitching was fine but the offense unsustainable, why do you believe the solution is to add FIVE pitchers and TWO infielders?
I was just saying what their needs are.
the offense from last year is unsustainable. it was one of the best seasons in the history of the game when it came to hitting with RISP. it won’t happen again, at least not at that level. However, BS and Ryan are just dumb enough to think it will which will result in yet another bottom of the barrel free agent season for the Twins.
Trade for Beltre (without giving up Young or Slowey)and sign Wood.
I like our chances.
RyanW says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Trade for Beltre (without giving up Young or Slowey)and sign Wood.
I like our chances
I’d rather have Juan Cruz. screw the draft pick.
I guess I’d rather see Harris in the lineup anyday vs. Punto. Harris is no power hitter but I believe there were only 5 Twins that hit more HR than Harris. Only 2 that hit more doubles.
The Twins are just three players away.
Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia and Albert Pujols.
If we make an offer for Longoria, maybe the Rays will come clean about how they REALLY FEEL about the Longoria - Bartlett MVP comparison.
Then get me a phone…I’ll friggin’ do it. Somebody needs to burst this bubble before Bartlett turns into the next Adam Eckstein.
“They didn’t have a sustainable offense last year and had no chance to win anything.”
You know, outside of 88 games.
“I can tell you right now, they are 2 rotation arms, 3 pen arms, and a left side of the infield away from being a World Series contender.”
And that’s absolutely silly. 2 rotation arms? 3 pen arms? Most teams would love to have the pitching staff the Twins have.
Adam,
I’m for Harris playing every day, but not at SS.
There is a reason that Jason Bartlett was the Rays’ MVP this year.
The reason is that Harris was the SS for the 2007 Rays, and that comparison made Bartlett look like a young Omar Vizquel.
T,
Who’s Adam Eckstein???? Or am I missing the joke?
And that’s absolutely silly. 2 rotation arms? 3 pen arms? Most teams would love to have the pitching staff the Twins have.
The twins are also a PG,SG,SF,PF and C away from winning an NBA championship.
And I can remember when all a b-ball team had was two Gs, two Fs, and a C.
Twins are missing the boat. Although I would hate to lose him, the Rockies Garrett Atkins would be a great addition. So give up some pitching to get him… he’ll be worth it!
I’d take the Twins 5 starters as a whole over Philly’s.
That’s Billy Eckstein.
Great band singer, back in my Dad’s day.
180% wrong is just so funny on so many levels.
I’d take the Twins 5 starters and Ryan Howard over the Phillies rotation.
1coavs1:
#’s away from Coors = puke
What would you think in ways of a trade? Which pitcher(s)?
What is 180% of 100 degrees f-cked up?
Twins won’t have enough roster space to have 2 utility players on the bench, along with Buscher/Harris and Casilla, AND signing either a 3B or SS. It’s just a roster space equation:
25 spots. Out of spring training, 12 pitchers and 13 position players. 9 starters. Bench (currently as is) will be:
1) Redmond
2) Cuddyer
3) Tolbert
4) Harris/Buscher
So with that, Punto will be our starting shortstop, or on another team. The way the Twins are clamoring for an upgrade, there is now way he’ll be back. The above scenerio also doesn’t take into account of the Twins sign a FA 3B.
Put me on the “Play Harris every day” bandwagon (at third). Buscher’s throws from third made me worried- and also showed how Morneau’s defense is top notch :). Harris had some nice defensive stops and was a doubles machine- I think he could do pretty well if Gardy would give him some more playing time. It seemed that Buscher got more days in the platoon (I could be wrong).
Here’s to another anomalous team hitting with RISP!
RyanW says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Trade for Beltre (without giving up Young or Slowey)and sign Wood.
I like our chances.
Kerry Wood is one of the most frequently hurt Ball players out there. Should we get Mark Prior to be one of our starters also. Prior could start around 1 out of every 50 games and Woood could close 1 game out of every 30 played. To high risk for me.
Sane
So, Harris played several games at SS (and some fill ins at 2B and 3B) last year and had this line:
.286 12 HR 59 RBI ~.970 Fielding
‘MBP’ Bartlett comes in, has this line:
.286 1 HR 37 RBI ~.960 Fielding 26 errors (double what harris had at all of his positions COMBINED)
wanna explain that reasoning again?
AJ,
Who assured Tolbert of his roster spot?
sane says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
The Twins are just three players away.
Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia and Albert Pujols.
LOL you got me laughing at work sane. Darn ya’ll JK
“screw the draft pick.”
Spoken like someone who is nostalgic for the mid-90s.
Would you trade Ben Revere or Taylor Hicks AND 20 million dollars for 3 years of Juan Cruz?
I wouldn’t.
medschool,
#errors and FPA don’t define fielding ability.
NO ONE in baseball, especially on the Twins or Rays roster or staff, think that Harris is a better fielding SS than Bartlett.
Only the stats-only non-observers believe that.
“Kerry Wood is one of the most frequently hurt Ball players out there. Should we get Mark Prior to be one of our starters also. Prior could start around 1 out of every 50 games and Woood could close 1 game out of every 30 played. To high risk for me.”
Jimmy, just because Wood and Prior both played for the Cubs does not make them the same player. You are using silly logic. Wood had a nice season and would look great handing the ball off to Joe Nathan.
medschoolmatt,
Those were Harris’s numbers in 2007. Last year he hit .265, 7HR, 49RBI
medschool,
If I misunderstood you, I apologize.
That was not any kind of rationalization of Bartlett’s Rays MVP award (which is bull sh-t!).
It’s just an indication of how bad a defensive SS that Harris was/is/would be.
Sane
yes, to lay people who dont have time to watch tampa bay baseball and compare bartlett to harris i agree; but harris is a solid fielder nonetheless and his bat has a lot more going for it. my point was that them calling bartlett an ‘mvp’ for having a better glove and a bat with less pop to the guy they had previous was a slap in the face to bartlett
Walter
he was saying tampa bay was comparing harris to bartlett from his previous year in tampa, i was simply providing the numbers to show my point
even so, id take a few ticks below what bartlett had in average to get more HR’s and RBI’s with LESS AB’s to give up a tad at the position (you have to admit Harris actually looked good at SS when he was allowed there before LNP came back)
medschool,
I get it. You are comparing Bartlett’s 2008 numbers with Harris’s the previous season.
RyanW:
I think someone above mentioned seeing Woods asking ~$10 mil. If so thats pretty steep.
edit - thanks sane and you are right though, bartlett is a better glove man, but i’m a harris guy and want him to start. i hope he gets a shot if we don’t get someone better at SS
wood at 10 mill? give me furcal instead or spend a couple more and get burrel
Also, when Harris did play SS fulltime in summer was when the team started to win more.
Enjoyed posting with y’all!
Time to go f-ck up my own baseball team.
Also, when Harris did play SS fulltime in summer was when the team started to win more.
Correlation or Causation?
sane he couldn’t bunt it if the Queen Mary went through the strike zone LOL
for the Bartlett people from MLB Trade Rumors:
Rays Willing To Trade Bartlett?
By Tim Dierkes [December 2 at 3:43pm CST]
Rays Index points us to a Danny Knobler report that indicates the Rays are willing to trade shortstop Jason Bartlett. Not only that, but the Rays had brief talks with the Twins about acquiring Delmon Young or Denard Span.
With Reid Brignac posting a .299 OBP in Triple A and Tim Beckham a year removed from high school, it’d be surprising if the Rays dealt their starting shortstop.
If we trade Delmon for Bartlett, that means we traded Garza for Harris? Tim Dierkes, how is a genius like you not being courted by Obama’s economics team?
We will give back Harris and Dy for Garza and Bartlett
I would not give up Garza and Dy for Bartlett and Harris
If we trade Delmon for Bartlett, that means we traded Garza for Harris? Tim Dierkes, how is a genius like you not being courted by Obama’s economics team?
Tim just reports rumors that other people/reporters report.
I think Tim was hearing the punchline of a joke.
Give them Tolbert for bartlett. If the TWins give up DY for Bartlett I would have to say I don’t like the direction in which BS is headed.
I think that would be the calmest of reactions jb.
In fairness to Tim, I guess he actually didn’t say the deal was Bartlett for Delmon. Maybe it was Scott Baker for Bartlett and Delmon for Dan Johnson.
Dan Johnson - Coon Rapids boy.
maybe it was DY for Grant Balfour
delmon for yunel..
or delmon for tulo
delmon for barlett isnt happening..
i can’t believe some people are even mentioning it.
delmon will only get traded for a young left side of the infield type player.
heck maybe delmon for hardy they would put delmon in right.
I willl give them back DY for Cliff Floyd
MH
I think we were just joking. At least I hope we were.
I take that back no I won’t
jimmy bee says:
I take that back no I won’t
Too late.
Delmon for Hardy - only way I’m trading Delmon; guy will be a study one day, just give him a year
wow that is nuts…sorry shawn, previous thing switched our sn’s
Pat and Kevin Williams suspensions upheld
how long (havent read it yet) ?
4 games i think
I think it’s for 4 games mandatory.
thats alright, i agree with me
shawn
glad someone does 
Shawn in Binghamton I agree DY will be a great hitter one day. I just hope he is a Twin when the day comes.
thanks jimmy… medschool actually had that opinion. I would prefer a Cuddy trade, don’t know if he would bring back any value though.
I don’t wan’t Rocco. He is inspiring but a medical condition is not needed here
Rocco is a free agent anyway
Good, I still don’t want him but he is a good person
Later y’all
Let Redmond play catcher all year, get a new backup, and move Mauer to third. Then get rid of DY and bring in a right handed bat in the outfield that doesn’t look like a ninja turtle! Turtles have a hard time hitting and running after a ball.
Anthony Slama named Twins Minor League Pitcher of the Year.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/majors/organization-reports/minnesota-twins/2008/267241.html
Whities trade Vazquez to the Braves
Forget the Escobar trade scenario. Brent Lillibridge went to the Sox (along with Jo Jo Reyes) for Vasquez and Boone Logan.
Nice to see Chicago dismantle itself.
That DY and/or Span for Bartlett was the worse rumor ever generated out there 
As far as set up men go, it is a buyer’s market this year. There are the following closers looking for a closer’s job:
K-Rod
Fuentes
Wood
Hoffman
Putz and Jenks are rumored to be available. Also, Izzy, Cordero and Lyon were closers and Cruz close.
The Mets, Cleveland, Detroit, Rays and maybe Reds are looking for closers. The math is simple: There will be at least 2-3 among this group who do not sign to close. If the Twins wait, they can pick one at a discount for 1 year contract as a set up person come January or February.
Also, there are a lot of internal options both in the majors and the minors. I really do not see the pen as much of an issue here…
Signing Furcal to a huge deal will look as bad as the Angels’ signing of Gary Matthews Jr. Just bound to blow up in the face of whatever team is stupid enough to bite on that deal.
Vasquez deal = salary dump. None of the players the White Sox receive in this deal will help them in 2009.
I have no clue how this affects the potential Escobar deal. But I can’t see any correlation. The Braves still need outfielders and supposedly covet Furcal. So if they sign Furcal, he Twins have the outfielder they need for Escobar.
cmathewson-You seem very plugged in. Is the outfielder you mentioned DY per chance and do you think DY for Escobar is equal value? What positions do they three prospects from the Braves play?Thanks!
“Anthony Slama named Twins Minor League Pitcher of the Year.”
That is funny becasue I think MiLB.com named Rob Deleney the Minor League Reliver of the Year… for the entire minor leagues.
Maybe we should trade for Bartlett after all he did get a vote for MVP. lol
RyanW-imo,both Slama and Delaney are viable set up options in the future.
Bartlett is the most overrated player on the Rays team. The fact that they are looking to deal him is proof that the “team MVP” talk is all garbage.
If the Braves sign Furcal, I see an Escobar for Young and Perkins trade being a possibility. I don’t think the Twins would give up more, as Young still has a lot of value on the open market.
please no Casey Blake!
They might as well just have Harris play 3b next year with Buscher getting a few starts. I just dont think that Blake would be that big of an upgrade over Harris.
lets get Adam Dunn. He’s a 40 homer 100 rbi guy. I know he strikes out a lot, but he also leads the league in walks…so that adds up to a like a .390 on base percentage which is really really good.
Anyways that would really help Morneau if we had our lineup:
Span
Mauer
Dunn
Morneau
etc
etc
I also think we should make a trade to get Hardy/Escobar if possible, and if not we have to get a 3b hopefully we sign Blake, because he is solid.
Escobar for Young and Perkins
this would be highway robbery…
Young for Escobar alone, would be in the Braves’ favor and would be a trade along the lines of Brunansky for Herr.
As a reminder Escobar is (at least) 25 years old and last season hit .288/.366/.401 (as a comparison Young hit .290/.336/.405). As far as fielding goes, his FP was .974 and his zone rating .837 (for comparison purposes, Punto’s were .973 and .867). So basically you are trading Young’s bat (who is at least 3 years younger) for an equivalent bat and Punto’s glove for a lesser glove in the field.
Cuddyer + a prospect for Escobar sounds better to me…
I like Escobar, but he isnt a 20 plus home run guy like the twins need. I personally think that j.j. hardy would be a good fit along or garret atkins who is younger than blake.
