Rockies doing their homework on Delmon Young
Posted on December 5th, 2008 – 9:14 AMBy Joe Christensen
I’m hearing the Rockies have been doing their homework on Twins outfielder Delmon Young, with GM Dan O’Dowd checking with people who have known him over the years, including Rockies outfielder Ryan Spilborghs, who works out at the same facility as Young in Santa Barbara, Calif.
Tracy Ringolsby, of the Rocky Mountain News, mentioned Young in his latest column as a possible fit for the Rockies, who are looking for a young, right-handed hitting outfielder. The Twins need bullpen help and Huston Street has long been one of their favorites.
However, La Velle heard this week that the Rockies asking price for third baseman Garrett Atkins was Kevin Slowey, Denard Span and another prospect. As we’ve written, the Rockies drive a hard bargain, and the Twins have been pessimistic about being able to work a deal with them.
I spoke to Delmon on Thursday, and he was in good spirits, though he is well-aware that his future with the Twins is up in the air. Stay tuned.
314 Responses to "Rockies doing their homework on Delmon Young"
Keep Delmon!
Delmon for Street? BAD BUISNESS!
Slowey and Span for Aitkins? WORSE YET!
PLEASE TELL THE ROCKIES TO GET BENT IF THAT IS THERE BEST OFFERS!
Good spirits. I’m not sure how to take that. If I couldn’t seem to find a home where I was accepted, I doubt I’d be in good spirits. Unless I just didn’t give a hoot.
I wonder if they want Delmon for Street straight up? What else could we get. They have tons of outfielders but Pridie looks in line to take over the 4th outfield spot if Delmon goes.
I think BS should take his time.His ability as a GM should not be based on least off season.He had the Torri Silva and Johan matters to deal with.That’s alot to take on in your first year as GM!
Ditto - Keep Delmon!!
What a complete disaster if the Twins ship Young off for a closer who lost his job to a rookie and if they don’t fill any of the holes on the left side of the infield.
Nice going Billy!
GENO,
yeah wow, it’s such a tough job … handling Silva, Johan, and Torii issues is just like being at NASA control or any major airport air traffic controllor. i mean we really need more doctors in some parts of the country, why dont we just get our average GM to train more doctors… *sarcasm intended*
this DY talk is just making my blood boil and i’ve never been in a worse mood about the state of the FO mindset.
The Rockies can’t seriously be asking for 2 first round picks plus another prospect.
It would be a huge mistake to trade EITHER Slowey OR Span straight up for Atkins.
Delmon is going to break out in a big way in 2009. Don’t trade him.
If I were BS and they proposed that deal for Atkins- I think I honestly would have laughed spittly all over them.
I mean I understand the strategy of starting out high and negotiating - but thats just….I cant….I am at a loss….
Keep Delmon!!!
..unless it is Street AND Atkins for Delmon and a prospect.
Sign Blake, keep Delmon, let things work themselves out in the early season. Last year is a perfect example on why you need a surplus of outfielders. Kubel and Delmon start the year as a DH platoon….
Remember folks,
This is the same FO that waited way too long for Franchise to be brought up and allowed Livan to keep going out there. What did Liriano do after he forced the issue? 6-1 in 11 starts. I applaud BS for pulling the trigger to get DY, but not for being this antsy after 1 year. Garza was expendable. DY is not.
Ship Delmon, he is a cancer.
Don’t trade the boat for Atkins.
Why is Delmon a cancer?
No way they should go Delmon for Street straight up but Delmon for Atkins and we throw in a couple of prospects would be great.
I dont want any part of Atkins. NONE OF IT. His numbers have steadily declined the past few years and as if it needs repeating: HE IS HORRIBLE OUTSIDE OF COORS. Not just a little worse - HES AN OUTRIGHT EMBARRASSMENT. PAH - THE–TIC.
Our bullpen was a disaster down the stretch last year and Neshek is out another year. Street would look pretty good as the 8th inning guy, with Mijares pitching the 7th.
Slowey and Span for Atkins? That’s a joke, right?
How can you say that Delmon is a cancer? Get your head out of the sand and see that he will be so much better in 2009 and we need to keep him. I would like to know what the Rockie’s GM is smoking if he thinks we should trade Slowey and Span plus a prospect for Aitkins - forget that! I still think we should sign Blake (no lost players or prospects) and then go after Hardy or Escobar (give up Perkins or Blackburn but not Slowey) and hopefully find some help for the bullpen. DO NOT TRADE DELMON
Keep Delmon….Sign Blake…sign a decent SS…I don’t know who…
Ringolsby kept saying that the Brewers and Dodgers were in the running for Blake - nothing about the twins. Were these misprints? He said it a couple times.
Delmon….a cancer? That seems pretty ridiculous. The guy played his tail off last year for us, and when he is told he is not one of the outfielders Gardy would choose, he takes it in stride. No complaints, no rants about why he should play (like the ones he used to make in Tampa), just motivation to improve. I hate the idea of trading away what could be our best hitting outfielder (let’s see more out of Span before we annoint him the second coming) for Atkins and/or Street. Sign Blake, and let these Twins play.
I agree, go after Hardy with Blackburn, Perkins, prospects and Sign Blake. An infield with Blake, Hardy, Casilla, Morneau would be stellar. KEEP DELMON…we all know Cuddy will get hurt again…check the stats, Delmon is already BETTER than Cuddy…
GCOkermos his career numbers way from coors are not horrible .260/328/424/752
I think Delmon’s reported “massive” upside is overstated. At best he is half a player - his bad defense cancels out his offense. His best role would be DH, but until he can hit 20-30+ HR’s you can’t put him there on a regular basis.
I support trading him wholeheartedly but NOT unless we get good value for him. Trading him straight up for a good, young MLB shortstop like Hardy or Escobar would be great, but perhaps not realistic. I’m not sure trading him for a BP pitcher like Huston Street would be enough in return.
Just DON’T trade Span and Slowey for Atkins. Buying Blake for 2 years and not giving up 2 of our best up and coming players does not make any sense at all. The difference between Atkins and Blake is not that much to give up 2 players.
If we can’t swing the right deal, then share the extra outfielders like the Angels have done in the past. Rotate them, give them at leasat 400 at bats each and see who rises to the top over time and adjust accordingly. Such as:
CF-Span
LF-Gomez (if he can get his OBP up)
RF- 2/3 Cuddy, 1/3 Delmon
DH- platoon split between Delmon and Kubel
I agree with RTWIN - Delmon has a lot more value than either Street or Atkins … Delmon will hit at least 30 HRs a year with an avg around .300, maybe not next year but probably by 2010. Everyone in Arizona thought Carlos Quentin was a bust, now look what he did last year. Also, could we do something similar to what the Red Sox did last year - keep 4 outfielders, let Cuddyer raise his value (like Coco Crisp did) and then trade Cuddyer next offseason.
The Twins FO is a joke right? they havent signed an affordable middle reliever yet right? I’ve forgiven a lot over the years and tried to just appreciate the end result for most of this decade given the financial constraints. But to expose DY like this is unprofessional. DY has been repeatedly baited in the press since he’s been here (refer to Crawford comments, now Gardy, and the anonymous whispers) but he’s shown nothing but restraint and a good attitude.
While Span was getting worse over the year, DY and Gomez were getting better….
Keep Delmon, sign Blake, trade Blackburn/Perkins + prospect or 2 for Hardy.
I think Howard hit the nail on the head when he said, “It’s been nice knowing you Delmon.”
He is as good as gone because Gardy has zero time for him. The Garza trade will be an even bigger disaster when they trade him for nothing and then he goes on to have a big year!
young for street? no way!
young for street and stewart? maybe stewart could become a reg 3b. if they keep atkins he’s blocked anyway. chip in boff if you have to.
So how is Delmon going to hit 30 homeruns when he’s platooning at DH with Kubel?
I say keep Delmon - his value right now is soooo low. Why would Gardy tip his hand like that? We’ll need a bopper in 2010, the grass at TF will make Gomez and Span less ideal than in the Dome.
Blake + Slowey + Span > Atkins
Walter Johnson,
Great post @ 10:01 am
Span and Slowey? common Colorodo… that’s rediculous.
Young should probably be given more time. Really is outfield depth a problem? Can we really expect Span, Gomez, Kubel, Cuddyer, and Young to all stay healthy this season? Unless someone wants to give up a lot for one of those outfielders, the Twins should stay with them.
BC of ND says:
GCOkermos his career numbers way from coors are not horrible .260/328/424/752
Are those road stats inflated by 2006? What were his road splits in 2007 and 2008?
Rockies asking price for third baseman Garrett Atkins was Kevin Slowey, Denard Span and another prospect
that’s enough for the Twins to never try to do business with those clowns…
Honestly, what has Atkins ever done?
Trading Delmon would be a terrible idea.
Last year, he had a better average that Cuddyer ever has and played more games than Cuddyer ever has. Plus, he is 6 and a half years younger. There is only upside there.
BC: Delmon is not ready to hit 20-30+ HR’s yet. If he was he would be a good candidate for full time DH. In the meantime, if you can’t get fair trade value for him, split him between DH and RF and see if he actually does develop that kind of power over time.
December 5th, 2008 at 10:10 am Steeks says: “Honestly, what has Atkins ever done?”
He invented a great diet, for one.
2006 Atkins was .329/29/120
Someone please give me an example of a Colorado player who signed somewhere else and had BETTER numbers for his new team?
now i’d be a little more interested if the Rockies were willing to part with Troy Tulowizki than Atkins… for a fair price.. if they are capable of knowing what that is. I know he was hurt last year, but if he could come back healthy…
Yes, if we end up keeping Delmon, get him out of left field. RF/DH would be much better. Left field in the dome is a tough position for a weak fielder.
make cuddy the third baseman
its not like cuddy is so valuable in the outfield
money saved by makin cuddy third baseman go sign furcal
E7 dont get me wrong i think Delmon has huge upside as well but like someone else mentioned if the Twins were looking to trade him then Gardy should’ve kept his mouth shut about what he thinks of him.
The outfielder that need to be traded is Cuddyar, but they can’t because he has no value. He is way overpaid, so plug him in at a position of need which is third base. Span was a way better rightfielder then him, so make him move and if he is such a team player he should have no problem with it.
I have enough faith in this franchise that they wouldn’t be stupid and trade Delmon Young away this offseason. Not unless they are getting something incredible in return.
That has the potential of being a David Ortiz like mistake. No way they do it, same can be said of Gomez.
Span may have had the best season of the 3 OFs, but he is also the most tapped. I see last season being about the best you can ever expect from him.
I would be looking to move Span personally…and that doesn’t mean I don’t think he is a good ballplayer. It just makes the most sense to me.
I think Gardy is bragging up Cuddyer to increase his trade value. A starting outfielder and one of the top players for a first place team should command a very good player in return. Work with me people.
Cuddy has NOOOOOO trade value
I love the thought of trading for Hardy as some have mentioned. But if Colorado wants Slowey, Span, and prospect for Atkins, you can’t really believe the Brewers will take Blackburn, Perkins, and a prospect for Hardy. Get Real!
example of a Colorado player who signed somewhere else and had BETTER numbers for his new team?
I assume that you are talking about position players and not pitchers:
Eric Young
Joe Girardi
Ellis Burks
Henry Blanco
Todd Walker
Juan Uribe
Gabe Kapler
Aaron Miles
Sign Furcal keep our pitching intact
BC, man I agree. Don’t know what Gardy was thinking. You lose serious leverage when you make statements like that. I’m wondering if he really had some ulterior motive in those comments…either thinking it gives a message to Delmon, or to other teams he’s potentially available, or that he really wants to make Cuddy look better so we can trade him instead…?
I don’t know, maybe he just got caught up in the moment after a couple of beers at the cow tipping contest in Fargo..?
Is the Rockies GM related to the Mariners GM or do they get there ideas from fan blogs.
Thrylos, do you keep stats on different bloggers - like who makes the most accurate or innacurate statements?
I’m just wondering what our starting staff is going to look like if we trade any of our pitchers. I am not thrilled with the idea of Boof or Humber being our fifth starter. Are there any free agent SPs out there we can sign for 2009?
I want to go up to the Twin Cities and find a nice watertower that can be seen for mile and paint “Save Delmon” on it.
Too bad Cuddy doesn’t have any trade value-would be nice to get rid of that contract.
example of a Colorado player who signed somewhere else and had BETTER numbers for his new team?
I’ll give you Uribe and Miles.
Cuddy third base, Fucal shortstop, pitching intact. Problem solved lets go play boys.
E7,
I don’t think Gardy is really that clever. I think what he said about Delmon and the outfield is his true thoughts on the subject.
Walter I agree with you i think one more veteran starter would be nice maybe we could talk the big unit into one year in the dome.
Would Blake be an upgrade at thirdbase over Cuddyar. Same kind of players to me, so dont waste money on Blake like they did on Cuddyar.
Bill Smith made a rookie mistake that others hope to take advantage of. My bet is that he learned from the mistake and will not be a patsy again. The mistake:
Garza for Young- pretty even
add Barlett for Harris-lopsided for Rays
add Morlan for Pridie- we get taken to the cleaners (Morlan subsequently got an off-field injury)
I think that Billy wanted the deal so bad that the Rays were able to fleece hm
Slowey for Atkins-pretty even
add Span- outrageous
add another prospect-ouch!
Just say no.
keep young, someone tell gardy to get off the kids back. gardy did the same thing to harris last year.
atkins isn’t worth that trade. give blake three years and get it over with.
these stiffs (twins) are so cheap and worried about blake’s six mill. for the third year. just wait until you homers see the ticket prices for 2010.
BIG STORY OF THE OOF-SEASON. WHAT COLOR UNIFORMS WILL THE TWINS WEAR ON SATURDAY’S AT THE DUMP.
BC,
If we could sign a decent starter for ‘09, then I wouldn’t mind giving up Baker or Slowey for a Hardy or Atkins. I just think there are enough questions around going into the season WITH Blackburn and Perkins without adding to the worries by trading away a starter. Blake pretty consistantly hits 20 HRs. Even if he hits 15, subtract those fifteen from the 25-30 a Hardy or Atkins will add. Now you are only adding 15 HRs for the loss of a starting pitcher. I don’t think it enough of a return.
Walter, I wonder when Gardy changed his mind on Delmon. He continued to start him game after game even late in the season after turning his ankle. Now a month after everyone stops playing, he just decides no more Delmon?
Wonder if Gardy will either retract his recent Delmon statement or the PR whizzes will have him make some clarifying comments. Wonder the next time he’s on the radio?
Either that, or some deal involving Delmon is aleady done and won’t be announced until the winter meetings next week.
Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News
“The odds are better than 50-50 that third baseman Garrett Atkins will be in a Rockies uniform come spring training.
After moving Matt Holliday, the Rockies’ demands in a trade for Atkins have become more specific. And so far, teams have been reluctant to get involved in serious conversations involving a proven starting pitcher capable of moving into the No. 3 spot, or higher, in the rotation.”
WJ,
Slowey should be untouchable. He has the higher ceiling of any pitcher in the Twins (that includes Liriano). Baker is a good pitcher. If any of them is dealt, the hole created (now and for the next 4 years for Slowey and 3 years for Baker) would be hard to close and will be very costly. Perkins (and maybe Blackburn) could be replaced by a mid-cost free agent or other internal options, but the other 3 can’t at this point.
Anyone think Liriano is or should be untouchable? Any thoughts on how interested other teams would be if he were available?
I’m on the sell side for Liriano.
E7,
I guess there just wasn’t anyone to replace Delmon. Even after Cuddy came back, he was really only available to pinch hit. Gardy DID say positive things about Delmon (”hell of a ballplayer/talent”). I think DH/4th outfielder would be a great fit for Delmon. His future is as a hitter anyway. As long as he gets ABs, it’s all good.
Also, I wouldn’t assume Cuddyer is going to get injured right away. His injuries last year were 1) cutting his finger sliding into a base, and 2) a Garrett Jones-batted ball breaking his foot. These are freak accidents, not pulled hamstrings or sprains.
To me, Liriano falls in that same category with Delmon and Gomez - 50-50 chance could be a future star or flash in the pan.
Realistically 1 of the 3 above is probably a future star - would be great to know who the other 2 are now so we can trade them while they have some value.
Delmon fielding wise is a young Cuddyer, cannon arm and about the same speed when healthy, but he also has huge offensive upside for a 23 year old, they could DH Delmon, keep Span in right and put Kubel in left, Kubel has a pretty good arm too and his knees have been healthy for hte past 2 yrs. I like Cuddy, good player and leader, but the other guys have more upside and the M&M boys and reddog can assume the leader role, the twins have a history of having quality guys step up and become club house guys, Puckett, Hunter, Cuddyer, someone will step up its just how this organization works. I’d like it if we kept all these guys nothing wrong with depth, but if one guy is gonna go it should be Cuddy, injury prone and getting older, plus the twins will save a few bucks and we all know how much they love doing that.
Let’s pour gasoline on this fire(sale) and talk up trading Liriano…
are you guys nuts??? He shut everyone down in AAA and did awesome for 5-6 IPG when he came up all in the first year out of TJ surgery. please be grateful.
Yep, Cuddy is the Gerald Ford of the Twins…
thrylos98,
I too think Slowey is going to be a very good pitcher. Hardy is a good young player too. I thought the Garza-Young trade was a good one. I think a Slowey for Hardy trade might be slightly better. You will have to give up a quality player for Hardy. The pitcber that probably isn’t good enough right now to swing the deal (Blackburn) could very well turn out to be very good.
Just pick up Casey Blake and tell the Rockies to buzz off. Trade DY and a prospect for a SS after that
All the reason to trade while his value is high! I don’t trust Liriano’s motion. I’m not Dr. Andrews, but just a (Tom) lehman’s view.
jimmy - which SS would you trade Delmon and a prospect for? I’d like Hardy too - but they don’t need a corner outfielder. Escobar?
I have been reading these comments the last few days and I can not believe the DY bashing. He is young and has not hit less than .290 in his entire career. He is accused of striking out too much, but it seems to me most hitters accused of striking out too much bat more in the .220s to .250s, NOT .290s or better, give him time to learn the strike zone and this is a guaranteed 300+ hitter consistently. His power is there you can see it (actually potential big time power has been displayed) and lack of power hitters have always been a twins Achilles heel, again as he learns the strike zone, his power will increase. He has a canon arm, but his defense is a little suspect, partly because of his mobility, getting in shape should improve that. Besides his speed has not been an issue in the past. OF defense is the easiest skill to improve, you can not create a canon arm. Lastly, he has a history of immaturity, haven’t seen it here, heck Gardy makes the comments he does and all Delmon says is he understands, that doesn’t show lack of care, I say it shows maturity, although I admit I would have rather have heard something like “I intend to make that a hard decision for Gardy” come from DY. This guy will be a star in this league, no way do I trade him, period!
Cuddy thirdbase, no Blake plz
Yeah…. this is a mistake.
and Atkins for Slowey AND Span AND a prospect. Sheeeeeesh.
Unbelievable! Troy Tulowitzki
Atkins for Slowey, Span and a prospect no way
Atkins for DY and a prospect yes but no to the first
DY and Tolbert and a prospect for Reyes from the Mets
Trading Slowey for Atkins would be just as bad as (if not worse than) trading Garza for Young. Slowey led the league in walk rate last week. Atkins is extraordinarily overrated and declining. Do Delmon for Street, straight up, and forget Atkins. Sign Blake if you want, but Buscher/Harris is a cheaper, roughly equal equivalent.
last week? haha i meant last year.
Young for Street strt up are u for real?
Tulo would be nice but the Rockies just signed him to a long term deal last year he’s not going anywhere.
kirbyelway,
Cuddyer is/was/would be a butcher at 3B.
He, the FO, the field staff and Gardy are unanimous that he should not be allowed to embarrass himself at 3B.
But, feel free to to continue wasting your time pleading for that switch.
Its your right.
Me personally I would rather get rid of Cuddy then DY. But the Twins FO would never do that after signing Cuddy whom I feel is an inferior player to DY to a deal. That would show that the TYwins FO made a mistake
I would trade Slowey for Hardy just because I have more faith in the Twins ability to develop starting pitchers than they do infielders. How many offseasons do we have to go through the same trouble of trying to fix the 3B and SS problems?
Span, Slowey, and a prospect for Atkins? They must be Rocky Mountain High! (Sorry, couldn’t resist)
SY, have u seen Casey Blake play. No better then Cuddy at third base. They are the same overpriced players.
I would rather get rid of Span the fastest of all 4 of the Twins OF’s
You talk about Cuddeyer’s cannon for an arm but when Span was out there this year he got to balls that Cuddeyer wouldn’t have dreamed of catching and by making the catch he didn’t have to worry about having a cannon for an arm. I think that Delmon’s natural place would be right field and I think he can thrive in that position and maybe do some DH for us too. I believe that Delmon has so much more potential that we can’t give up on him now. Get the infield we need and another pitcher but leave Delmon alone. Go Twins.
Tulo’s contract is long, but I don’t think that expensive - relatively speaking. Wonder how his injury is healing?
I think it would be tough to get him - he’s very popular in Colorado kind of like Mauer is here. Not that should matter, but it does.
I don’t think we have a chance to get Hardy without giving up 2 of our better players - probably both front line pitchers. No way…
What’s the latest on Atlanta trying to get Peavey? Is Escobar still a part of that? I heard the Braves need a hitter. I’d trade DY straight up for Yunel.
They are stuck with Cuddyer’s overpriced contract, so put him at a position of need. No more of a butcher at third then the hacks they had last year.
jimmy
Giving Cuddyer that much money may prove to be a mistake, but the Garza for Young deal has the potential to be a massive blunder, especially if Smith trades Young for a reliever and Young blossoms into a star, and Garza developes into an ace. Imagine, it would work out to the Twins trading 2 immensely talented young players (and 1 ok young shortstop), for Huston fricking Street. Ugh.
Cuddyer needs to be the odd man out of the outfield, but they signed him to the ridiculous contract. Young has way more upside the Cuddyer ever did.
kirbyelway,
I’ve seen Blake play 3B in Cleveland and LA.
He is 100% better than Cuddyer ever was at 3B.
If you can find a single legitimate baseball guy on the planet who thinks the opposite, your next assignments are to find the Lindbergh kidnappers and DB Cooper.
MudCat,
I think you have it exactly correct. Inflate Cuddyer, while appearing to pile on D. Young, like a number here do as well.
That’s how I took it when I saw the quote. Cuddyer has little/no trade value IF he is seen as bench player.
Regards,
Well Blake is actually a third baseman, so I’ll take him at third over Cuddyer. Twins don’t need to give anything up for him either other than money since hes a Type B. I still say get Blake, do what it takes to get Hardy, and then let the bullpen work itself out. I agree with WJ - Twins aren’t a team that has had trouble with pitching.
jimmy - don’t think Span is the fastest outfielder, but may be the best overall. He’s fast enough but takes the best routes. Arm is not as strong as the others, but again strong enough for CF. I also think he times/jumps fences best on the team which at least in the dome counts for something. Another reason to put him in CF or LF vs. RF.
Hope he doesn’t suffer the sophomore jinx. He is starting to remind me very much style and statistic wise with Ellsbury who were willing to trade for.
One half season doesn’t do it I know, but to me he’s almost untouchable outfielder until we get at least another full season out of him…
Twins Fans
The Twins want Blake not Atkins, but they do not want to guarantee a thrird year. Revitalizing the Atkins talk is just to pressure Blakes agent. They want the Blake deal done Monday.
Street’s salary is over 3 million and Atkins over 6 millon. You do not trade a 23 year old making close to the minimum straight up for Street and Atkins, in the Twins FO eyes this is not value.
See Rosenthal column for the Twins SS, other than Bonser and Humber it will not cost anyone on the 25 man roster.
sane and Dragon,
Cuddyer isn’t and never was a 3rd baseman - he was terrible - as bad as Busher; let’s get Blake and have that position taken care of for the next 2-3 years. I’m hoping you’re right, Dragon, that Gardy is just trying to inflate Cuddyer as potential trade bait as I will be totally P***ed if they get rid of Delmon and keep the dead weight Cuddyer. Go Twins!!
I should say I have faith in the Twins developing pitching and if Slowey is traded, by 2010 they can probably bring up a good enough pitcher; however, the problem is the 2009 season. Is anyone near ready to step in?
You can never tell what is in a guy’s heart, but it just seemed like Cuddyer eased up a bit after he signed that big contract.
WJ:
Who had good AAA #’s last year. I thought I remember Mulvey, Duensing, and Swarzack having good stats - although I dont know how they would far in the MLB.
The only deal BS should do with the Rockies is Street AND Atkins for Young. That said, trading DY to begin with is a mistake. What’s Gardy going to do when his favorite magician goes on the DL again and he had BS send Young away just because he does not like him personally?
Not to worry though, with LNP to save the day as our everyday SS, we’re as good as WS champs!
I think Thrylos said it best - the Rox GM is a clown
honestly, a STUD pitcher, a STUD OF, AND a prospect for a ‘what’s he ever done’ type of guy? I’d rather throw another year at Blake, get slightly less average and defense with more pop and KEEP my awesome rotation and OF intact, thank you very much.
They need to get away from the Rockies, and simply try and do something through FA if there are no other good traders. Hardy would take a similar package (if not more) than what this a**clown (pardon my language) is asking for Atkins (whose he again?). Heck I think we could even get Beltre for a similar package. BUT Slowmo is off limits and so is Span (he’s the only leadoff hitter we have, not to mention the guy can play all 3 OF positions in style).
I want to see Burrell in a Twins uniform at DH. What would it take? 12 mill? 14 Mill? we’ve got the cash, we can do it. Then turn around and trade Cuddy for whatever you can get (maybe a AAA level relief pitcher or infielder with some upside). I like Cuddy, and he was one of the only other guys to show up at the ‘playoff’ with the white sux (seriously, a leadoff double and we can’t get him home, what a piece of crap) but he’s already shown us his ceiling and we ain’t seeing that from him in awhile (if not ever).
Dicky, what’s the Rosenthal link?
Cuddy gone but the Twins FO doesn’t like to reveal that they made a mistake by signing Cuddy long term. He should be the player to go. Cuddy for Street and pick up Casey Blake
medschoolmatt: what’s the latest on rotator cuff surgery for a partial tear? Can it be fixed adequately by scope? My doc told me to wait someday until it tears all the way through then have the full blown surgey. There’s got to be a better way - thoughts?
Neshek a prospect and Cuddy for Atkins
DickyBuzz says:
December 5th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Twins Fans
The Twins want Blake not Atkins, but they do not want to guarantee a thrird year. Revitalizing the Atkins talk is just to pressure Blakes agent. They want the Blake deal done Monday.
Street’s salary is over 3 million and Atkins over 6 millon. You do not trade a 23 year old making close to the minimum straight up for Street and Atkins, in the Twins FO eyes this is not value.
See Rosenthal column for the Twins SS, other than Bonser and Humber it will not cost anyone on the 25 man roster.
Link please.
Keep Delmon. Just don’t let him play anymore day games.
E7 - love your posts by the way
the guy should have had surgery from the get go; I plan on being a surgeon someday (we’ll see what kind when I get my Step 1 scores) and a rotator cuff injury can heal but not in a guy like him and not that fast. his effing delivery is what killed it, and also them bringing him back way too fast. He’d be on his way back this year if they had done surgery at the start, but they wanted to be cheap/’safe’ about it and not do it. I feel terrible for Neshek, I hope he comes back.
What’s wrong with this team?! If they are really trying to trade him, why the hell are they killing his trade value. Seriously, what leverage do the Twins have by stating he is only a #4 outfielder.
nick - Gardy likes to talk, despite the FO’s wishes.
medschoolmatt
I believe E7 was talking about his own rotator cuff, and not neshek’s, as neshek does not have a known problem with his rotator cuff.
When the Rockies finish their homework on Young, they should conclude that they would be getting the better end of a Young for Atkins AND Street deal. I would not make that trade as the Twins GM.
medschoolmatt
Also, i doubt very much that any major league team ever takes the cost of a surgery into account when deciding whether or not a player needs said surgery. The very idea is ludicrous.
E7,
I tore my rotator cuff in high school - playing basketball. My doctor prescibed Ben-Gay and aspirin and instructed me to refrain from throwing overhand, which I did for about a year. After two years it was strong enough for me to try out for my college baseball team as a pitcher.
Everybody’s upset over their asking price for Atkins, but really, why should they ask for less? They don’t have to trade him, he’s not eligible fore free agency for two more seasons, and they could probably get more for him at the trade deadline this year than they could right now. I think it’s just basically their way of telling teams he’s not available.
I would not trade DY for anything because after Morneau’s contract runs out Mauer and DY will be the faces of the Twins because Morneau will never be affordable again
Buffalo,
Colorado’s doing what we should be doing with Delmon: ask for the moon. If a team is dumb enough to pay the asking price, great. If there are no takers, we still have a pretty good player.
How bout Mulvey and Span/Cuddy for Atkins
Buffalo, that’s a good read on it, and supports the theory that the Twins want to pressure Blake’s agent a little.
Gardy’s comments leads me to believe he’s become so acustom to only having 8 worthy players to put on the field that if he’s forced to have to come-up with a managable platoon to maximize the more diverse talent… his head might explode.
It’s a cop out. It’s shallow. It’s irresponsible.
Why isn’t the press asking, what’s wrong with having some depth when in the past several years there have been points in time where we’ve needed that depth… (Does anyone remember Jason Tyner????)
Gardy’s comments are just plain silly at face value and did no one anygood.
WJ I like your thinking. ARod and Cano for Span. Utley and JRoll for Span. Pedroia and Youk for Span.
Cano is actually available.
jimmy bee,
How did we end up with three Spans?
Sounds like Edward Encarnacion of the Reds might be available. The Reds are thin in the outfield and have depth at 3rd in the minors.
i don’t think anyone is upset with the Rockies. The thought that the twins might actually consider this deal upsets me a bit.
Walter, I agree on getting the moon for Delmon or else keeping him. The only desperate need is SS, right? Nothing wrong with having six players (Span Gomez, Young, Kubel, Morneau, and Cuddyer) available to rotate or spell the starter in five positions (OF, DH, 1B). What are the chances of all six players staying healthy anyway?
Is anyone else upset at Gardy?
this naming thing is off. That last post was my MC.
I’m upset at G.
WJ I am mad at Gardy because Cuddy should be the one that goes
Someone has usurped my moniker.
I wouldn’t give up Young for EE that is for sure.
I am upset with myself. I shouldn’t defend Gardy but I am totally taken in by the whole hat kicking thing.
long time reader with one question for everyone to answer
I am keeping it simple and I know there are other ways to measure batters but this is just a quick and easy way: BA, HR, RBI
player one:
2 best seasons as a Major leaguer
BA-284 HR-24 RBI-109
BA-276 HR-16 RBI-81
Carrer line: BA-268 HR-10.7 RBI-47.7
player two:
BA-288 HR-13 RBI-93
BA-290 HR-10 RBI-69
Carrier line: BA-292 HR-8.7 RBI-57.3
Not much difference!!
[…] Around the Majors – […]
Don’t trade Delmon!!!
The hat punt was classic. As was the “Hunter Wendelstadt has rabbit ears-don’t tell me i want showtime” rant. The chance that Gardy might go ballistic is worth about half the price of admission.
player two is obviously Delmon. I’m guessing player one is Mickey Hatcher.
Hey did you guys hear that A-rod wants to play for the Domincan Republic in the WBC? First he leaves his hot wife for a skanky washed up old Madonna and now this the dude is losing it.
questions
You didn’t pose a question, after stating you would.
questions,
What’s the question?
which player do you prefer?? to me they are both similar in what you can expect.
Walter
Player 2 is not delmon, because his career average homeruns is more than 8.7.
Encarnancion is like Buscher on the field…
questions,
I prefer the younger one.
I love Gardy and I do sit around with my family and watch YouTube clips of Gardy kicking his hat…. (okay, we don’t get out much).
..but I’m upset with him for what he said in Fargo. You lose leverage with comments like that. I sense a retraction or clarifying statement forthcoming.
Player 1 is micheal cuddyer. And i guess player 2 could be delmon, taking his september callup year into account as part of his career average.
which one do you prefer?? to me they are similar with the exeption being age, salary, and projections
questions
I also go with the younger one. He is cheaper, with immeasurably more potential than the older one.
It is refreshing to see the sane Twins fans out today (there is zero sarcasm in that statement). Trading Delmon would be a huge mistake. Span should be in center, Gomez in left (better arms are more valuable at the corners than in center), and Delmon should be allowed to move to his natural position in right field.
Concerning the Rockie’s trade “offer” (I think O’Dowd must have been playing MLB 2k8 with the fair trades off, and forgotten where he was when he made that proposal), I would stop taking any calls from Denver until they get real. There is no one the Rockies could send us right now that I would legitimately want, except for Tulowitzki. And due to his injury, I would only be willing to give up prospects for him.
YGTBKM,
Those are Delmon’s numbers alright. The career line must be off. He hit 3HRs in 30 games for Tampa in 2006. Must have counted that as a “season” .
Oh yeah, Atkins away from Coors last year? .233/.278/.383. Those are Nick Punto numbers (well, not that bad, but you get the idea).
Delmon Young projects to be vastly superior to micheal cuddyer in every way, with the exception being card tricks, and smiles per game (SPG-a new stat, that I just made up, right now).
sorry for the repeat..i just think to many people are asking far to much of a player that has 2 full years of professional baseball under his belt…if you ask me right now they are the same player in regards to production..Delmon (player 2) is cheaper and has a lot more upside..I don’t buy into the clubhouse cancer stuff as all professional athletes have an ego..I am not a delmon fan but I am willing to bet he will be far more productive over the course of the next few years then Cuddy
Dan G,
“Tulowitzki. And due to his injury, I would only be willing to give up prospects for him”
You would not give up Bonser, or Crain, or ANYONE on the roster one-for-one for Tulo?
Amazing!
ooo (thanks ygtbkm); i completely forgot it was his elbow that was the problem >_< (curse my path final on monday) and i thot he was being funny; also i dont think it was more of a thing of cost as it was laziness.
i am no expert on these sorts of things as i am only a 2nd year. my mother has a similar problem with her rotator cuff. most should not be done with invasive surgery. you’d need to be more specific with your history and by all means you are welcome to get a 2nd opinion. most partial tears should NOT be treated with surgery as it is very invasive and can cause many complications. you should definitely read this article (hope the link works let me know if it doesn’t)
http://www.uptodate.com/online/content/topic.do?topicKey=bone_joi/11463
it has all sorts of good things in there. basically, surgery is a last resort. best is keep it out of action for as long as you can (as Walter did) then do some exercises to strengthen it (as it will atrophy).
best of luck to you
Ideally there would be better reasonably obtainable players than Blake or Atkins. But there doesn’t appear to be. I know thrylos likes glaus and some others, and while they would be nice, they would likely cost a fortune. Those players just aren’t going to happen. Crede would be nice, if he could stay healthy for a year, but he won’t. Chronic back injuries don’t just go away, especially when you swing a bat for a living.
“Tulowitzki. And due to his injury, I would only be willing to give up prospects for him”
I would trade Cuddy for Tulo, REGARDLESS of ANY INJURY, until I have seen Tulo’s autopsy.
Sane?
Boof for Tulowitzki? HA! Yeah I bet the Rockies would be all over that!
I really like Crede, though. If we could get him for a deep discount - a one-year deal to prove to the league he can still play - I’d take him, give Buscher a bunch of starts, and keep Harris at SS.
Twins Fans
Last Paragraph
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8896650/CC,-Burnett-in-no-hurry-to-make-decisions
They just need to have a come to Jesus with Delmon and work out their issues. I cant imagine that if the Twins are seriously considering him a fourth OF and willing to shop him in a trade it cant be for lack of ability at his age and with the numbers he has put up and his upside. Their issue with him is he is not home grown and brainwashed yet to play the Twins way. Or he hasnt kissed Gardy’s rectum (damn near killed ‘em!) enough yet. See Punto.
WJ, I like Crede too, I doubt he will play with a turf team
SANE?,
Of course, the Rockies would gag at that.
That’s my point.
Dan G stated that he would only give up prospects (no more) for Tulo and my post was a sarcastic response.
As much as I’d like to see Street in a Twins uniform, their asking price is too HIGH.
Janet,
You are probably right, unless nobody else will have him. I don’t know if he’s ever DH’d. You could try to limit his dome starts.
If LA caves and gives Blake three years, he is gone as an option. The Rockies will not get what they want from us for Atkins. Come February, Crede could be the only option left.
“I would trade Cuddy for Tulo, REGARDLESS of ANY INJURY, until I have seen Tulo’s autopsy”
autopsy hmmm dont the Twins have enough deadbeats?
One thing about the Gardy quote.
Has anyone seen or read the WHOLE conversation?
It may be exactly what as presented in context, OR it could be interpreted far differently depending on the context of the entire conversation. Without the context, a random quote is worthless.
Regards,
medschoolmatt and Walter, thanks for the input on the shoulder…I’ve been getting a lot of differing opinions out there.
I’ll stick to the PT for now - and of course, I’ll try to stop patting myself on the back all the time…that ’s probably what caused it 
It would take more than Mulvey and Bonser to get Jason Donald. The piece said he is drawing significant interest. That means that other teams are probably offering more than garbage players that will have a hard time sticking with the big club out of spring training.
I like the thought of Crede for one year experiment better than 3 years of Blake. One year might be all we need until the propspects are ready. Two years Blake okay I guess, not 3.
the Dragon says:
December 5th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
One thing about the Gardy quote.
Has anyone seen or read the WHOLE conversation?
It may be exactly what as presented in context, OR it could be interpreted far differently depending on the context of the entire conversation. Without the context, a random quote is worthless.
Regards,
I’m not a Gardy hater, but this post is pure shyte. Dragon, you haven’t ever reached quite this far in your relentless defence of all things Twins related. You sound like a lawyer.
They always have the option of sticking with Buscher/Harris, keeping the players and prospects and cash.
Twin Fans
If the Phils sign Moyer they still need a starter cheap for the 5 hole. Also the Phils no longer believe in K Kendrick.
Donald is a good player, check K Law chat on ESPN 12/4
Do not under value the Twins SP pitching depth.
WJ, I agree one year of Crede in a worth a flier.
How about thoughts on Ty Wiggington??
Seems he my be available as well
You’ve Got To Be Kidding Me!
You might read what I wrote.
I didn’t say the quote was out of context, I did state, that Gardy’s quote could mean something totally different, depending on the context.
Since we recently went through a political campaign, there are any number of times, on both sides, where phrases taken alone meant EXACTLY the opposite of what they actually meant when taken in the context of the complete statement/conversation.
Regards,
mlb rumor:
Richard Justice feels the Astros will trade Ty Wigginton. Maybe the Twins could be a match.
inflated home park #’s like atkins, splits are not good. have we had luck with ex astro’s?
Janet,
Aside from a couple years in age, with Wigginton you’re getting about the same you would from Blake.
GGG Noodle arm??? Mike Lamb???
Yeah, I guess I have joined the Twins FO and am aiming low.
Janet, Wigginton would fit nice. I’m just saying there is not enough difference between him and Blake to give up players for.
I can’t believe the Twins would even consider trading a prospect as good as Young. He batted .290 last year, for crying out loud. His defense will improve with experience, just like Gomez’s offense will improve with experience.
Why don’t we just get blake and sign him for the bloody 3 year deal. Or how’s bout 2 years with an option to buy out the 3rd year. My gosh he is what we need. We don’t even have to give up anything. Are the Twins doing what the Yankees did with Joe Torre. Try half hearted to get Blake but when another team (The Dodger’s) ends up getting him (Blake) we can always say we tried.
We are going to need Span and DY once Span starts struggling against left handers again, look at his minor league stats last year was kind of miraculous.
I wonder if the Twins attempted to get K. Greene from the Padres. It seems to me if we wanted an upgrade at short stop 2 minor league players was not a bad price to pay for Greene, granted he did not have a great year last year but he was hurt, but it seems like St. Louis made a great deal for him and he put up great numbers in 07 when he was healty. Sign Blake and than go after BP help and than a SS or play with Harris at SS do not trade Young, move him to RF and Platoon Cuddy and Kubel at DH.
Dragon
I’m not entirely sure what other meaning Gardy’s statement could have.
Greene is awful. isn’t his career OBP less than .300? ick.
Green is Spikoli (Fast Times). “Where’s my pizza Mr Hand”
with Wigginton you’re getting about the same you would from Blake.
not even close 
career against LHP:
Wiggy: .288/.364/.514
Blake: .258/.345/.478
and Wiggy is 5 years younger and cheaper
this was on mlbtarderumors
Richard Justice feels the Astros will trade Ty Wigginton. Maybe the Twins could be a match.
thrylos,
since Topp Dogg didn’t get you traded…
how does Wiggy stack up defensively. If the Twins think that they will have someone ready in a year… Wiggy looks to be a good play
Harris would be good for SS. If we go out and try to trade for someone, we will be giving up to much. If the FO does sign Blake, it will give us more runs in and thus, more runs per game.
I think we need to keep Young, he has to much up side being so young and all. Plus he would give us options at the trade deadline. You know someone out there will have a need for a outfielder.
how does Wiggy stack up defensively.
2008
@3B
Wiggy: .969 FP .791 ZR
Blake: .957 FP .768 ZR
Harris: .971 FP .766 ZR
Buscher: .938 FP .774 ZR
Beltre (gg): .964 FP .844 ZR
Atkins: .964 FP .787 ZR
Cantu: .937 FP .720 ZR
just for fun:
Cuddyer 2005 @3B: .962 FP .737 ZR
Thyrols98,
You are correct on Wigginton’s age. I thought Blake was 33.
I disagree in that I think they are “close enough”. I should know better by now than to argue stats with you, but, assuming our next 3B will play against BOTH RH and LH pitchers:
Wigg: .270/.330/.460
Blake: .264/.334/.447
If we don’t get Blake what kind of washed up has been will the Twins try and get to play 3rd?
the wiggy splits:
home 15 hr, .343/.390/.691
away 8 hr, .234/.316/.380
“If we don’t get Blake what kind of washed up has been will the Twins try and get to play 3rd?”
My guess would be Rich Aurillia and that would suck.
WJ, offensively overall they have performed equally so far. I put the LHP splits there, because that is where the Twins are really hurting… The Twins’ RHB as a team had a .693 OPS against LHP (the overall team OPS was .748). In the AL as a whole, RHB had a .772 OPS against LHP. It is an area the Twins better improve… Another consideration is that Blake is less likely to sustain that level of production the next 2 years than Wigginton…
wonder what the Astros would ask for?
gobble,
that is pretty consistent in his career and it is not like he has been playing in Colorado. He played with 5 teams and in pitchers parks like Shea and always had better home than road splits. It is likely that with the Twins he will continue that (the astrodome park factor is 99, which means it’s a close to average park) Blake is exactly the opposite. His road splits no matter what team he played with are always higher…
Career OPS
Wiggy: Home .820, Road: .763;
Blake: Home .725, Road: .835
Metrodome career numbers:
Wiggy: .314/.368/.486
Blake: .253/.305/.444
astrodome?
I was questioning why Wiggington only played in 111 games last year, that does ironically sound like lamb.
Also on the stat thing, like WJ it is difficult to argue with Thyros but…Wiggington has played lot of positions isn’t his lifetime FP at 3rd .951?
Houston no longer plays in the astrodome.
wonder what the Astros would ask for?
Good question. Depending how desperate they are to cut budget but way much less that what the Rockies were asking for Atkins. The Astros cannot take on any salary. They are looking for a center fielder and a starter. The Twins can start the negotiations with Glen Perkins and Dustin Martin and add from there… (probably would take a couple more prospects)
ok. minutemaid park
Wigginton looks a bit like a person afflicted with Down’s Syndrome.
thrylos i agree he would be better than blake, who imo is at the age he could fall down real fast. i think wiggy is a free agent after this yr so if i’m going to trade perkins it should be for somebody we can keep a while.
Ugh. Slowy and Span? Are they high? Now I can understand why the Twins are pursuing Casey Blake so seriously if that is what Atkins would have cost them. I think Atkins is worth Cuddyer and Humber at the most. And I don’t think it is a good idea to trade Young for a relief pitcher, especially with the Rockies driving such a hard bargain.
“You’ve Got To Be Kidding Me! says:
December 5th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Wigginton looks a bit like a person afflicted with Down’s Syndrome.”
and Kubel looks like he has fetal alchohol syndrome. Let’s do a straight up trade Wigginton for Kubel
isn’t his lifetime FP at 3rd .951?
yeap, but the last 2 years it has been .969 and .976. (Btw, league average FP for 3B last year was .956) He played a lot of positions in the past and this can hurt a 3B fielding play.
only played in 111 games last year, that does ironically sound like lamb.
Groin, Rib and thumb injuries and some platooning against righties. Lamb use to play only against righties.
As a matter of fact, Wiggy is built a lot like Kubel. The Twins were interested in trading for him in 2006 when Tony Batista bombed, but it did not work out with the Rays.
thyrlos98,
I will concede that Wigginton has more upside than Blake, but my main point was that that upside is not significant enough to overcome giving up players for him that might contribute as well. Blake + tradebait > Wigginton
Thanks Thrylos
I agree with you Walter Johnson, but if Blake signs else where, Wiggington could be a fallback
If Wiggy were a type “A”, probably not… and if Valencia is 1 year away i don’t have a problem with the tradebait
thrylos how about young and blackburn for street and stewart?
Other teams are interested in DY? I wonder why? isnt he supposed to be a big bust? It makes sense for the AL team with the WORST power to keep their OF with the potential for the most power. Other teams with MORE power than the Twins are interested in DY b/c maybe they’re better judge of such talent than the Twins? *shaking my head*
it all comes down to battling your tail off and getting after it, and dy justs scuffles to much for gardy!
which also means that harris is probably gone and nicky will be resigned.
WJ,
The fact is that it will not take that much to get Wigginton… Might even just take prospects. Read here:
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2008/12/astros_reconsid.html
young and blackburn for street and stewart?
Too much.
I am not really sold on Steward yet (a lot of his minor league “power” numbers comes from playing in the PCL. Even with that, he had 34 HR the last 2 years in 671 AB; Brian Buchanan in 364 AB in the PCL in 2000 hit 27 HR; so take it with a huge grain of salt)
His fielding numbers last year were: .944 FP, .777 ZR (compare that with Buscher’s up there).
The reliever/quasi-closer market is overflowing with players and I am sure that the Twins can do better elsewhere with lesser cost that getting Street.
Why is everybody up in arms about something Gardy said at a farmfest? He wasn’t exactly talking to sportswriters, was he?
I realize there’s no news and we have to talk about something, but it doesn’t have to be dissected.
My prediction: the Twins will keep all 4-5 OF (counting Kubel) into next season. They will sign 1 3B or 1 SS, but not both. The remaining position will be status quo from last year.
They’ll sign 1 RP or trade Humber or some other AAAA pitcher for one.
gobble,
another thing about Street. There were discussions with the Mets. The Mets offered Heilman straight up and the Rockies countered with Heilman and Feliciano ( http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/12/05/heyman.wintermeetings/1.html )
Heilman and Feliciano sounds to me closer to Bonser and Breslow than to Blackburn.
I’d be cool with only prospects for Wigginton. Anybody untouchable down in AAA/AA?
Anybody untouchable down in AAA/AA?
Nope, esp. the pitchers and outfielders.
Ft. Myers and below is where the best prospects are for the Twins (some might argue that Valencia and Hughes could be untouchable, but these guys are older than D. Young, one needs work with the bat and the other on the field to be day to day contributors in the majors)
According to Houston’s website they are looking for infield depth and a catcher
Janet, Tolbert maybe.
Does anyone think that Kubel will have a
.300 avg
30 HR
100 RBI
Year in his future
How about Plouffe?
jimmy
i think he will hit 30 and 100, but not .300.
Span and Slowey for Atkins? I hope BS laughed his tail off! Everyone knows Atkins can’t hit outside of Coors, and a little leaguer can hit at that park. I cannot say this enough-we need to keep Delmon Young! We will regret trading him and look like fools. Puckett hit 4 homers his first two years in the big leagues, he came up at age 24,; in his third year he hit 31. Young has hit 23 these past two years. Let’s not trade away our 3rd most productive power hitter when we have zilch for power!!
Plouffe and Butera
You’ve Got To Be Kidding Me! I agree 100%
Kubel’s ceiling is 25/85, me thinks.
I think kubel won’t hit .300 but 100 RBI’s isn’t a stretch and 30 HR’s is optimistic. He did hit 20 last year and didn’t play all year
Hey that was my comment and not DickyBuzz’s
dlmon sucks he is overrated and street would do great seating up nathan so i think this would be a great deal
Young for Street is CRAZY! Cuddy, career year in 2006, .284, 24, 109. Delmon in 3-4 years, .310, 30, 120. He is just scratching his potential, the guy is only 23 for crying out loud. Give him a chance! Tell the Rockies to make realistic deals if they want to get out of the proverbial cellar more than once a decade.
I think Kubel has a higher ceiling than 25/85. This was his first year being healthy since he blew out his knees. He was one of the best hitting prospects in the minors before that happened. Give him another year or two and he’ll be a very productive hitter.
Bill Smith Don’t screw this one up. Keep Delmon. Also let Punto go. NOW.
If the Rockies actually demanded that in exchange for Atkins, then I hope Billy Smith slammed the phone down on them. That’s an insulting offer.
Not sure what is going on, one of my posts is missing, and I did not make any J Kubel comments.
my biggest concern with delmon has always been, not his defense or bat, but his weight…he seems clumsy and a bit bulky and will only get bigger as he ages, like his brother, but to his credit, it seems as though he has taken it upon himself this winter to work out hard and keep the weight thing down…thats a good thing and a sign that he may be maturing somewhat…we forget i think, how young 22 really is…good god, kirby didnt even come along until he was 24…delmon could very well be superstar status…maybe/maybe not) by the time he is 24, and i just would not want the twins to lose out again because of impatience…the kid has all the tools and more than enough power to hit the long ones, so i suggest unless he can bring a superior ss or 3b to this club, forget any trade and lets plug him back in the lineup with gomez, cuddy, and span…..maybe trade kubel, as i dont see him ever doing much more than last year and we can get along with cuddy dh along with young and others…..
Just had a long conversation with Aaron Hicks, who took batting practice with our HS baseball team.
He is the same down-to-earth kid he was last spring when I was richer than he was.
dude, i wanna talk with Hicks 
you’re cool sane
Young and Puckett comparisons are cool, but Puckett was a special kind of player. Young (at least I don’t think) will never have Puckett’s glove, so we can stop right there. That said, their bats could get close (although I’m not sure Young will contend for a batting title or even touch Pucket’s .334 he had when he won it). Young has shown he is clutch, and showed hes a gamer and works hard (ie played hurt, 3 run jack against Rivera, working hard this offseason - see Cuddy in the gym? I dont think so).
Watch for Young to break out this year; I believe Span may fall off a tad (just a tad though, his discipline is top notch and his eye is amazing - Lasik should pay him) and I wouldn’t want anyone else at leadoff; Casilla will come back to earth (something like .280 8 50 with 20 SB’s and stellar fielding) but still be a stud. Young will be the guy to watch - he’ll eclipse 15 HR’s, 80 RBI’s and bat close to .300. I also predict he’d play better if he moved to RF (*coughhintGardyhintcough*).
The team will be awesome; I want Blake here, the rotation intact, Korecky in Neshek’s spot, Reyes out of here (Breslow and Mijares holding the Lefty spots) and BS to gun for Burrell or trade for someone like Hardy or Escobar. THen we’ll be set. Anything less and we’ll still contend, hands down
and PS - I’ll go out and defend this guy ’till he proves me wrong, but Blackburn is a gamer (he showed up against the Sux, who else did?) - do NOT trade him.
Twins fest on XM this afternoon. First, Slowey talked about how much the young staff learned by being in a playoff atmosphere the last month of the season. He also talked about the young pitchers learning just by watching and listening to guys like Redmond, and his approach to the game. He specifically mentioned how great of a catcher Mauer is, and how much he helps the pitchers with their game plans every day.
Also, the DY situation is getting plenty of air time. Kevin Kennedy, who says he is friends with a member of the Twins coaching staff, said that the word is that DY is difficult to deal with. He said that Cuddyer is a gamer, and he wouldn’t get rid of Cuddy.
Twins should do delmon and luke hughes for Street and ian stewart
also i agree i like the Twins chances at a rotation spot but we need help on left side of infield! we could sacrifice a young trade to acquire some help there…a delmon package for jj hardy or orlando cabrera would be noice! we’ll see what happens tho i cant wait for the winter meetings. the most wonderful time of the year!
gardy was wrong to say what he did, and i wonder if he will be on the phone with dy making his case or apologising for talking out of school, or whatever…you dont expect it from players and it should be the same for managers…aplogies and explanations are in order gardy…lets see some real managerial skills….this is your young and budding possible superstar….if not superstar, still a damn good ballplayer….need to take care of him…
GO TWINS!
Tim - in what way would you trade 2 of our best prospects for a closer hasbeen and a guy who fields like Buscher but hits like Dunn (hits it far but strikes out 1/3 time he’s up)?
Gregor - how is Young ‘difficult’? is it because he doesn’t slide into 1B or do magic tricks? Or is it because they told him not to play because he was injured but he did anyway, yet they were behind Cuddy because he had an owwie?
im likin the idea of span in left gomez in center and cuddy in right…! bounce back year for cuddy baby!…see ya delmon
speaking of Dunn. what are the chances he falls and they sign him as a permanent Dh? That way when they trade Young (its coming) they can have Kuebel as the fourth OF’er, cause Pridie is a lifer at AAA and most of us know it. Sign Blake. Package Young, a pitcher and a couple prospects for Hardy and Hall. Then make the effort at Dunn. He does drop AVG, but he belts tons of homers, and there has been almost no interest cause of the economy, which is bound to drive his price down. Thoughts?
Drewski,
Kubel at the OF is not a pretty picture. Dunn might be an upgrade over Kubel at DH for the next season or 2, but if you put him at DH and Kubel at OF, you will have 5 LH starters. And this team has a hard time against LHP. They need to focus on RHB who pound LHP.
thrylos98,
I’m sure you are talking about Pat Burrell, you sly dog!
danimals,
actually not. You gotta fill more than one holes if you have the opportunity…
I’d rather see them get anyone of Wigginton/Beltre/Glaus (or even Mora .933 OPS against LHP in 2008 is nothing to sneeze at). Burell was drafted as a third baseman, if he could play third, that’s a whole different discussion
Everett to Tigers? What does Detroit know?
Didnt know that about Burrell… he’s my mad-crush for the off-season
That’s the asking price for Atkins? Forget that crap.
What? Are the Rockies reading the same book the Mariners are?
I would not be afraid to go into the season with Cuddyer, Gomez, Span in the outfield with DY and Kubel at the dh spot with both giving the 3 best defensive guys a break. Injuries happen. Throw Blake in at 3b and we have depth to play with OR trade for bullpen help, which is our key need. Buscher, Harris, or one of the outfielders wouldn’t be a bad trade group.
MSM - It was Kevin Kennedy that said it. He was inferring that DY is difficult to coach. Take it as you may.
Kevin Kennedy has been off the field and on the TV booth for 16+ years. Young was about 6 when he last managed… his opinion is thus hearsay and not based on personal observation.
jimmy bee says:
“Does anyone think that Kubel will have a .300 avg 30 HR 100 RBI Year in his future?”
No. .265/22/80 Tops. He either willn’t get the playing time, or all the playing time will wear him down/out. Still decent numbers though.
tim meyering says:
“Twins should do delmon and luke hughes for Street and ian stewart”
You…are on crack.
Check that, Maybe 100 RBI. Didn’t remember that he had 78 last year. Also didn’t remember that he hit .273, so I’ll say this (after actually looking up his stats).
RBI 100 Tops. .287 AVG. Tops. 24 HR’s Tops.
Those ARE very nice numbers.
Here’s a tough one though: Without looking it up, how many career steals does Kubel have? A clue/tidbit: He’s only been caught twice!
Check that, Maybe 100 RBI. Didn’t remember that he had 78 last year. Also did not remember that he hit .273, so I’ll say this (after actually looking up his stats).
RBI 100 Tops. .287 AVG. Tops. 24 HR’s Tops.
Those ARE very nice numbers.
Here’s a tough one though: Without looking it up, how many career steals does Kubel have? A clue/tidbit: He’s only been caught twice!
Keep everyone. This a great nucleus. Spend some money on a GOOD free agent or two.
I’m not going to let myself get too freaked out by this one. It sounds to me like pure speculation by a Colorado reporter … “we need an outfielder and Minnesota needs bullpen help.” That can’t possibly be the trade. At most, it would be the starting point for a multi-player trade. There is no real baseball news right now and he’s got to fill his column with something, right?
In my mind, the Rockies are don’t wanter traders in regards to Huston Street. My impression is the guy lost his job to a rookie, so the Rockies can’t be too high on him. They might ask a lot initially, but that price should come down quite a bit if there is no interest. I’m thinking a mid level prospect or two should be enough to pull it off.
Personally, I don’t think Smith is seriously shopping any one player. I think he’s talking to as many clubs as he can to create as many options for himself as possible. At some point, he’ll huddle with his staff and decide on which option they’ll pursue. All this stuff also creates buzz as they go into the winter meetings and that has got to be a good thing.
If Blake accepts the Twins offer, it becomes less likely that Delmon will go anywhere. Gardy’s comment sounds more like it was intended to kick Delmon in the butt and motivate him.
It sounds to me like pure speculation by a Colorado reporter
an interesting thing is that this is the same reporter (actually columnist - think Sid Hartman and Charlie Walters) who speculated earlier the Cuddyer for Atkins rumor… (and on the table was Atkins for Slowey and Span and a prospect, per LEN3) So I would his speculations with a grain of salt the size of Greenland….
Are you kidding Rockies? Slowey, Span and another player for Atkins? We could get Blake who is a decent upgrade and give up none of our talent. However, I am intrigued by the Young trade talks. We need bulpen help and Street along with another good rockies player (such as Brad Hawpe) would be interesting.
thrylos98,
What I was suggesting was Dunn as Dh and Kuebel as a backup OF. IF, and I mean IF hes in the OF he should be in RF. And there is no doubt, keeping Young or not, that Span should be in LF. A OF of Span in Lf, GoGo in Cf and Young/Cuddy in Rf would be much more secure in many Twinkies fans eyes. However, I do agree with the faithful about Young being the better option for Rf. As lumbering as he is, hes a Rf’er and he still does have more range and a slightly better arm then Cuddy has. He just needs to go back to school on how to take routes to the ball. Then he would be serviceable in Rf. However, what makes it up is the fact that Cuddy, AT HIS BEST, is only a .280, 25hr, 90 rbi guy now. Young, even not at full potential, still has a realistic ability to be a .300, 25hr, 100 rbi guy for years to come. Plus tack on 15 to 20 swipes a year and its a no-brainer. Thoughts?
Giving up on any of the starting rotation in a trade would be bad do not trade any of them as there is acouple prospects only 2 years away then the starters will be gone as Slowley and Bakker should be there llike Radke was
And i would say that Kuebel given a fully healthy season could reach 30 hrs. But it would be at sacrifice of his avg. We have seen him go on power spouts, yet it always seems to happen at a time when the ONLY thing he is hitting is dingers. We continue to talk about Young and Cuddy as trade pieces, when Kuebel has more trade value then Cuddy being younger and coming off of a servicable career year, I would think. He most likely doesn’t command the attention of a Young, but you would have to think he would be in between Cuddy and Young in trade value. Even thrylos98 said it. Kuebel is NOT servicable in the OF. Young and Cuddy ARE. So keep Cuddy/Young, trade Kuebel. Seems simple enough, plus anything you get for Young will be a disgrace once he starts punishing in the NL… (imagine Young’s .290, 15 hr and 80 rbi NOW potential in the middle of that Brewers lineup. The average wouldn’t drop, add a couple homers cause they would pitch to him instead of Fielder and Braun, and add Rbi’s for being in a much more steady offense.
The Twins are making a mistake if they trade Delmon after only one year, too much upside. You certainly don’t trade an everyday player for a relief pitcher. I agree with a previous post, keep DY sign Blake and then go find a SS and some relief help. JJ Hardy is a stud, go get him now while his value is much lower than it’s going to be.
keep everything in as is add from free agency relief help and a power hitter milton bradley do not subtract anyone especially if you do you might loose out on a winner.
Huston Steet is a joke. Hyped-up, manufactured stats. Typical “closer.” Take note: Billy Beane has done this over and over again with closers - inflate their stats, dump them in a trade or let them walk as type A or B free agents (once they play themselves into a contract you don’t want to pay) to get a sandwich pick. Jason Isringhausen, Keith Foulke, Billy Koch… You have to buy low and sell high on closers and set-up guys. It’s a manufactured position designed to make a bunch of money for agents and put butts in the seats to cheer for propped-up stars. Street’s career: 94 saves, 27 blown saves. He’s averaged 7 blown saves a year. This guy is far from lights-out. I don’t believe in trading for bullpen guys (except in rare cases), I think you develop them.
On LENIII’s Blog:
TWINS BREAK OFF TALKS WITH BLAKE.
As I said over ‘there’, Dumb.
[…] Rockies going to Minnesota in exchange for the talented 23-year-old. Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune answers forcefully: …heard this week that the Rockies asking price for third baseman Garrett […]
Morneau NEEDS someone to light a fire under him. He’s lead the team in HR’s every year since his first full one. I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this, but Hunter (first) seemed to keep him in the lead. Last year it was Kubel, but he under performed Hunter, and Morneau suffered. Let me explain:
In ‘05, Morneau finished with 22. Hunter had 14. In ‘06, Morneau had 34 HR’s. Hunter finished with 31. In ‘07, Morneau finished with 31, while Hunter had 28. This year, Morneau had 23, and Kubel had 20.
And even in ‘04, Morneau had 19 in 74 games, with Hunter finishing at 23. He tried to catch him.
In the Hunter years, Morneau was Always leading. But he would get 2,3,4,5 HR’s up on Hunter. And there he would sit. Until Hunter, eventually, got within 1 or 2 of him, and then he’d build up a 3-5 lead again. He has done this in EACH of his 3 full seasons. Last year, with Hunter gone, Kubel was the new (2nd)power guy. Kubel Almost caught Morneau at one point, but then he built a 4,5 HR lead again. Morneau, based on this, will only finish 5 HR’s or so above the 2nd team leader. If we get a guy that hits 25-35 HR’s, Morneau should hit 28-40. (And lead the team).
Has Anyone else Ever noticed this?
I should add the in ‘05, Hunter had a shortened season (98 games). So that could be why he Morneau had only 22 that year.
I don’t know if Delmon Young is coachable. I remember reading something about him not taking “advice” from our hitting coach. BUT, if he could be taught a little patience at the plate, the Twins would have a good choice as a right handed DH. I suppose it all comes down to how the FO sees him. (Remember David Ortiz?)
I don’t even know if it is possible, but the ONLY way I would keep Delmon Yound in the organization is if he were sent down and taught how to play outfield the right way. If he can’t figure out how to get after fly balls in a straight line, to know when to charge and when to hang back, and how to go back on a fly ball, then get rid of him, There is no room in this organization for someone who doesn’t know how to play defense - period, end of story.
(And I’m not even talking about his ‘take-it-to-the-bank’ habit of ALWAYS swinging at the first pitch, no matter what.)
I swear, every one keeps talking about his upside, his potential, his coming break-out season, but this guy seems dumber than a bag of hammers. Send him down, teach him the game, and then I say - maybe, just maybe he will be a good fit for this team.
Hey- don’t be bashin’ bags of hammers.
Not to encourage vindictive or bitter behavior…but if the Rox ask about Young, the price should be something absurd.
Especially if they think Atkins is worth Slowey, Span, and then have the audacity to demand a prospect on top of that.
“Dear Twins, in order to patch your hole at 3B, please bust open a gap in your rotation AND lineup”.
What was it that good ol’ Forrest Gump said? Something along the lines of “stupid is as stupid does”?
All I know is what I saw DY ‘does’ all last year in the outfield and in the batter’s box against the same American League pitchers and in the same American League parks as the year before…
I’m just sayin’….
justsayin…,
Who had the most/fewest baserunning blunders between Delmon, Morneau, Gomez and Punto?
I’m just sayin…
Question #2
Who, on the Twins, had the most stolen bases with the least speed?
Who, on the Twins, had the most stolen bases with the least speed?
Cuddyer, 5
Young is deceptively fast. As a prospect he ran a 4.47 40 yards dash (ok, he gained weight later last season but he did not steal many bases in the second half)
Young is deceptively fast.
He obviously deceived the stopwatch holder.
Actually, he is deceptively baseball savvy.
Please don’t trade Delmon, it will be a monumental mistake. Think David Ortiz monumental…
Hi Joe. Love your coverage of Concordia volleyball.
philly.com says phillies are interested, too: http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/Phillies_interested_in_Twins_Delmon_Young.html
According to ESPNews, it’s official.
Blake signs with Dodgers.
3years/17Million dollar deal.
The Twins will regret this, unless they Actually sign a Real 3rd basemen.
Remember our starting pitching should be better next year with more experience, plus we have Franchise for the whole year. That may add 10 wins. Also, our starters will pitch into the seventh by next year. Patience is our best weapon. Wait to see what shakes out during spring training. If Cuddyer has trouble we still have Young. Usually there are a couple good relief arms that come along in the spring. SS and 3rd may even look better by then. If not do a little spring cleaning.
Alan Harrer,
That’s all good and fine, and it Could happen. It’s baseball. At the same time, it’s baseball. That assuming a lot of things. We stay healthy, we actually improve, and ‘Franchise’ continues to do well. Lest we forget Joe Mays. He looked pretty good coming out of ST. He even did OK for a month or two. Then it fell apart. Just because a guy does it for a couple months, doesn’t mean he’s cured. I belive he is, but we’ll see.
“(Having) Franchise for the whole year, may add 10 wins.”
I doubt it. Livan held Liriano’s spot, and he DID win 10 games. It’s not like Liriano took the place of a 1-17 starter. 5 more wins out of that spot is more likely.
Lastly, a lot of these guys could suffer sophmore slumps. After all, there are, for all intensive purposes, a lot of sophmores on this team.
The Twins simply do not have the history or ability to acquire a solid quality position player, such as a third baseman like Beltre. That is the reason they are known as the “Not quite good enought Twins.” The Twins organization cannot complete with other teams for what is known as “Quality” in the Major Leagues, and it is also the reason they are not taken seriously as possible contenders from year to year. The organizaiton will either obtain a player who is over the hill or who is young and has not developed into a top notch player. They can grow their own players in their minor league system, but they cannot grow all the players they need to win a championship, and their habitual reluctance to spend money or trade for a quality third baseman is sad.
I think the Twins could be taken seriously if they obtained Adrian Beltre to play third and acquired another solid relieve pitcher. It would also help them alot if they could bet Punto and Cuddyer off the roster and make room for some above average players.
ed,
Punto is not on the roster.
Keep DY and move him to RF and Span to LF and put Cuddy at 3B; forget the trades and FA signings. Tolbert or Punto, same thing, so keep Tolbert and don’t splurge on Punto.
sid:
Don’t bother with Schizo herb/ed/tom/dick….he tends to come in once every few days and post the same idea from five different names in an attempt to make himself sound like he knows what he’s talking about.
Because seriously, he’s suggested trading Punto at least that much since the season ended.
