Twins 25-man roster, a current projection
Posted on December 15th, 2008 – 12:12 PMBy Joe Christensen
The winter meetings have come and gone, and not much has changed for the Twins. I still think they’ll try to upgrade third base before spring training begins, though I’m done assuming they have a big move up their sleeve.
Is Ty Wigginton the answer? I don’t know. I know the Twins like him, as La Velle reported Sunday. But they liked Casey Blake, too, so I’m guessing it’ll depend on how much Wigginton costs.
There’s also the theory that they MUST address the bullpen. Not sure the front office agrees. There’s continued talk of reconstructing the bullpen from within.
For now, let’s project the 25-man roster, just to remind ourselves what’s here. The following predictions are based partly on Manager Ron Gardenhire’s stated preferences, for Nick Punto at shortstop, etc.
STARTING LINEUP
1. LF Denard Span (Left)
2. 2B Alexi Casilla (Switch)
3. C Joe Mauer (L)
4. 1B Justin Morneau (L)
5. RF Michael Cuddyer (R)
6. DH Jason Kubel (L)
7. 3B Brian Buscher (L)/Brendan Harris (R)
8. SS Nick Punto (S)
9. CF Carlos Gomez (R)
BENCH
OF Delmon Young (R)
C Mike Redmond (R)
INF Harris (R)/Buscher (L)
INF Matt Tolbert (S)
OF Jason Pridie (L)
ROTATION
1. Scott Baker (R)
2. Francisco Liriano (L)
3. Kevin Slowey (R)
4. Nick Blackburn (R)
5. Glen Perkins (L)
BULLPEN
Joe Nathan (R)
Jose Mijares (L)
Jesse Crain (R)
Matt Guerrier (R)
Craig Breslow (L)
Boof Bonser (R)/Philip Humber (R)/Jason Jones (R)
HELP WAITING AT ROCHESTER
RHP Kevin Mulvey
RHP Anthony Swarzak
LHP Brian Duensing
INF Luke Hughes
INF Trevor Plouffe
334 Responses to "Twins 25-man roster, a current projection"
I like Humber and Bonser!
Please send Guerrier packing!
We would have won the division easily without his collapse!
Total crap Young on the pine and Guerrier still in the BP!
Whatever happened to Alejandro Machado, the twins rule 5 pick last year? Is he a reserve option in the infield, or has he been a dissapointment?
So here’s a question: Is the headline going into ST (barring trades) the battle between Cuddyer/Young/Gomez for those two OF spots?
Yes, Gardy likes Cuddyer over Young for defense…but will Cuddyer show in Spring that he’s back from injury?
If Young has a good spring, Cuddy could turn into a DH with Kubel being the odd man out.
rhielm: Wasn’t Machado on the DL all of last year?
or….Cuddy/Kubel platoon at DH. IMO this is the best option
the Twins late season failing were not all Guerrier’s fault. Gardy over-used him and he got fatigued towards the end of the season. Boof scared me at the end of the season as much as Guerrier did, and I’ve never trusted Humber’s arm.
We could have predicted this line-up etc last year. Two (of many) problems:
D. Span in left - Again, could have predicted this would be the only place where he could be used. Why didn’t he play ANY games in LF in 2008??
D Young - Off the bench?? I know we all have different feelins about Young; but the only way to see what he’s able to do is to play him every day.
I’m sure Joe is right in his projection for next year. My feeling is that this is an attempt to try and make Young into better trade bait for 2010.
Last year, Machado played most of the year with Rochester at DH and occasionally at 2B while his arm was recovering from arm surgery.
What is wrong here…
Cuddy, Gomez, Span the outfield!
Kubel as DH…can also play outfield!!
Young on the bench…outfield!!!
Then you have Pridie on the bench to fill in just in case…in the outfield?
Yes, Machado was on the DL last year, but he played the last 54 games of the season and hit .338 with 31 RBIs in 195 ABs. I think thats pretty good, so why did the Twins take him off the 40-man roster?
still no good right handed hitter in the line-up unless gomez or young improve
I thought they took Machado as a shortstop. Did they move him to second, or am I wrong on that?
That’s not a roster that can go deep into the playoffs. Even if they go out and get Wiggington, this is a team with significant holes, although we’re better with him than without him. I hate to be negative, but if last year’s club wasn’t good enough to win a weak division, what makles the front office think that essentially standing pat translates into more wins? Some of the young guys will improve, but not everyone is going to have as good a year as they did in ‘08.
beej,
Good catch!
IMO, the Twins will have a 12-man pitching staff and 4-man-bench like last year - not an 11-man pitching staff and a 5-man bench like JoeC is predicting.
Machado was the Rule 5 pick prior to the 2007 season. He was on the DL all of the 2007 season. After the 2007 season, we made a trade with Boston to retain his rights and be spent the 2008 season in Rochester.
No way on Pridie if DY doesn’t get traded…the Twins aren’t going to go with a 11 man pitching staff.
Two of the three relievers on the bottom of the list will make the squad. My guess (and only a guess)is Humber gets traded at the end of spring training for a prospect
But is Machado capable enough to be a reserve option in the infield in ‘09 or not?
This lineup would be competitive, could even win the division. Adding Wigginton and a power arm would be decisive.
rhielm,
Machado’s arm injury made playing SS impossible and also made it unnecessary to protect him on the 40-man roster.
Why is someone posting as me? Is someone else wanting to go by “jama” now?
young has to be traded, he can’t sit on the bench by losing his job at a farm show in fargo. gardy burnt the bridge by not saying we have 3 of spots and a dh for 5 guys so the best 4 guys in spring training play. young was accused of being a cancer, trouble maker, and many more things when he played every day what will he be like if he sits on the bench? his value isn’t high now but what will it be if he sits on the bench?
Machado a capable MLB IF reserve?
I’d guess that it depends on the extent of the recovery of his arm strength by Spring Training.
My hope would be Humber and Bonser in relief and one less outfielder (Pridie). If we sign someone like Nelson then I would try to trade Humber. If we sign Wigginton then we can try to trade Harris and keep Buscher to rest Wigginton once in awhile. That would give us an extra left handed bat. Or we can send Tolbert back to AAA or work out a trade there.
My hope is to sign Wigginton and Joe Nelson. I am hoping that Young will get his at bats as I believe he is going to get much better and is a better long term then Cuddyer.
The lineup you present is weak, mainly due to the presence of Punto and Cuddyer. The Twins inability to recognize the weaknesses has held them back in the past and will also hold them back in the future. The Twins should dump both Cuddyer and Punto and obtain a solid clean up hitter to hit between Mauer and Morneau, then they would solve them problems.
ggg,
Young will get plenty of PT in the Twins outfield, when Cuddaver trips over the foul line and breaks his ******.
Fill in the blanks with the anatomical part of your choice.
The Twins will not fare well in the standing in 2009, mainly because of their unwillingness to obtain a right handed power hitter who can hit with enough power and average to hit beween Mauer and Morneau. Having Punto and Cuddyer is the lineup is a laugher to most clubs who know they are only averaage players at best.
sane the problem is that he has been seen as a bad apple when he plays every day how long will it take for it to turn really ugly if he sits on the bench most of the time? once that even appears to be happening he won’t be worth a couple of broken bats.
ggg,
Delmon was benched last year and never complained.
He was dissed in Fargo this winter and never complained.
I need some ACTUAL EVIDENCE that he will become Terrell Owens, if he is not playing every day.
I’m not buying the “projected” bad behavior, until I SEE IT!
Twins will be lucky to win 75-80 games next season if this is what they’re going into it with, what without making any upgrades on the left side of the infield and the bullpen. Although the White Sox should also be worse, Cleveland will most certainly be better. Rochester options are thin this year too. I’m not confident.
Joe…
I think they would keep Bonser and Humber (too cheap to let those two go to another team) and keep Pridie in the minor leagues.
ggg,
That was my reply under sid’s moniker.
The system went into autopilot again.
Joe:
You have 14 guys and you know they won’t carry more than 13 position players and a 12 man pitching rotation.
So who’s out? Pridie?
Secondly,
Just for fun…..If the Twins sign Wigginton for 3rd base. What do you think the 25 man roster will be?
The infield would be set with the 4 regulars….and they can’t keep Buscher, Harris AND Tolbert…..So what gives? Buscher to AAA? Trade Harris? Tolbert to AAA?
What’s your roster?
Too many underachievers would need to improve (Young, Liriano, Cuddyer) and overachievers would need to keep it up (Span, Casilla, Mijares, Blackburn, Breslow). The patch jobs they are trotting out there right now are bound to give out (Buscher/Harris/Punto on the left side; Bonser/Guerrier/Jones/Humber in the bullpen).
Steve Garvey
Trades & Transactions
Steve Garvey Trades & Transactions
06-07-1966: Selected by Minnesota Twins in the 3rd round — free-agent draft, did not sign.
06-07-1968: Selected by Los Angeles Dodgers in the 1st round (13th pick overall) — secondary phase (or secondary phase delayed) — free-agent draft.
11-10-1982: Granted free agency.
12-21-1982: Signed by San Diego Padres.
11-09-1987: Granted free agency.
Steve Garvey at one time was in the Twins organazation
2008-09
Cleveland - 91 wins; Detroit - 86 wins; KC - 81 wins; Twins - 79 wins; Chicago - 74 wins.
I’m callin it.
If the Twins sign Wigg the odd man out would be Buscher.
Jimmy bee.
I didn’t know that about Garvey.
Although he was one of my answers to great free agent pickups of all time though when he signed with the Padres!
Based on this line up the Twins will lose a lot of late inning games with Boof/Humber, Crain and Guerrier coming out of the BP. Like last year, this BP is going to get a lot of work unless Gardy changes his style and allows his starters to pitch more than 6 innings.
sane the problem is young has a “reputation” and even if he is a good guy some people (like souhan) will assume he is a bad apple and every little thing gets amplified.
Bullpen looks ok to me until you get to Bonser/Humber/Jones. Need to keep two of the three. Pridie goes back to Rochester.
jimmy,
If Garvey didn’t sign, then he was never in the Twins organization.
BC Beneke I was trying to figure out what the Dodgers got for him in a trade and the answer is nothing in a trade. FA he left
Last year Baker, Slowey, and Perkins were all coming off injuries so their innings were limited.
Justin…
Twins 92
Tigers 87
Whitesux 78
Indians 78
Royals 68
The Tigers pitching staff will come back, and Sheffield and the old timers will all be playing for contract cash.
Thome gets hurt and the Sox don’t resign Crede and the team hits .229 as a team in 2009.
Cliff Lee comes back to earth, Hafner is never going to be healthy ever again, Seizemore won’t be healthy all season, Wood will get put into the rotation by August because he has blown too many saves and the team is out of it.
Oh and the Royals are the worst AA team in the Major Leagues.
This linup is okay and probably in line with the manager’s thinking. I would have Young DH and Kubel on the bench. Just as most are mystified by the Gardy/Punto love affair, I still fail to see why Kubel is still so highly thought of that they’d go with him over Young at DH.
Another point. When the Angels got Torii they had four outfielders and it worked out fine for them.
sane I guess your right but interesting tid bit for the day. I guess he could have become a Twin
Jimmy Bee
Varitek and Tim Belcher, and Travis Lee were also great Twins picks that never signed here.
2008-09
Cleveland - 89/71
Chicago - 87/75
Minnesota - 82/80
KC - 79/83
Detroit - 71/91
I’m callin it.
I’m hoping to see a RF/DH 3-man platoon between Delmon, Cuddy & Kubel. If you play match-ups with those 3, they should all be more effective, and you should be able to find enough ABs for all 3 to keep them sharp.
I think Wiggy is key for a Twins club that lacks pop. Guys like Punto & Gomez are fine players, but don’t offer much in the way of consistent run production. Having another hole in the lineup at a key run-producing position was/will be a hard obstacle to overcome.
When the Twins got rid of Kenny Landreaux what did they get in return?
I remember Tim Belcher he was a good pitcher
“Varitek and Tim Belcher, and Travis Lee were also great Twins picks” Great picks? that might be a stretch.
I see no reason for Joe C.’s predictions to be wrong. The Twins can’t reasonably expect to hit over .300 with RISP again in 2009. They have little RH power and not much from the left side either for that matter. Standing pat has never been a good thing in MLB. It usually leads to a regression as unforeseen circumstances usually injury or players not moving ahead in their career development take place. It is mystifying to me why they continue to follow that pattern year after year or equally as bad take fliers on players who are on the downside of their careers hoping to catch lightning in the bottle. They have money to spend since the payroll is smaller and both attendance and ticket prices are up! Time to make a move with all those 42 free agents available for what should be a reasonable price considering the supply.
jimmy bee,
Twins got Mickey Hatcher, Kelly Snider, and Matt Reeves for Landreaux.
ggg,
Delmon will be ripped by some people, whatever he does.
But if he actually says the right things like he did after the benching and the dissing, why does he “HAVE TO” be traded?
If Reusse can’t fire Brewster and Souhan can’t fire Chilly, then neither of them can trade Delmon unless Delmon ACTUALLY DOES become an ass.
For RH power you need BOTH Cuddyer and Delmon in the lineup.
Guerrier was overused because for a while he was pitching very well in tight spots, and the rest of the bullpen (for lack of a better word) sucked royally.
When Neshek went down, it was bascially Nathan and Guerrier there for a few months.
Everybody else went on some kind of Suck Rotation that never quite made much sense. A guy would pitch lights out for a few days then would go on a spiral for a week or so. In the meantime somebody else would step up and then fall apart the moment you thought he’d take over a role.
i for one am one guy that likes our depth in the outfield spots…having 5 solid guys for 3 spots and dh is a good thing…you have to remember that we have guys who like to crash the fences and get banged up-so almost always someone is nicked up or slumping…there is plenty of room for all 5 by rotating a bit or dh and a few days off here and there…thats a good problem to have and one i hope they keep….if anything and someone had to go i would pick kubel to be that man…he is pretty one dimensional -although im not sure what kind of package you could put together with him…..just get wiggy signed and that solves the biggest problem, 3b and that power bat thats missing…i really wonder if bill smith ever reads any of this stuff…if not he definately should …he could get a pretty good feel for his club by reading these day in and day out…
Walter Johnson But later on Hatcher ended up with the Dodgers thus winning a WS ring
I switched my prediction up a little
Twins called when Coomer was down; Dodgers prospect ready when spots in Japan, L.A. weren’t.(SPORTS)
Article from: Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN) Article date: June 1, 1997 Author: Reusse, Patrick More results for: old twins who became dodgers | Copyright informationCOPYRIGHT 1997 Star Tribune Co. This material is published under license from the publisher through the Gale Group, Farmington Hills, Michigan. All inquiries regarding rights should be directed to the Gale Group. (Hide copyright information)
Ron Coomer spent 8 1/2 seasons in the minor leagues. The toughest demotion to take had come in spring training 1995.
“It was the spring after the strike,” Coomer said. “During that offseason, I had received an offer to play in Japan. For the first time, I had a chance to make some serious money playing baseball. It was going to be a two-year deal for more than a million bucks.”
The Los Angeles Dodgers would not let Coomer out of his contract to sign with the Japanese team. The Dodgers’ official reason for this was that they anticipated Coomer would make the club in 1995.
“Then, I was the last guy cut in that abbreviated training camp,” Coomer said. “I wasn’t in …
Coomer almost was a hit in Japan.
Cleveland rebuilt its bullpen and will win the division unless the Twins upgrade at 3B. If the Twins can sign Beltre without giving up a starting pitcher, Mauer-Beltre-Morneau-Cuddyer-Kubel is a great middle of the lineup.
BC Beneke-You have the Twins winning 19 more games than you had them winning last year.With a lousy FO,lousy manager and Punto at short,how are going to improve 19 games?
Looks like about an 81 win, 81 loss team. No real offensive threats (excluding M&M), but the young starting pitching will carry us to many wins.
If the Twins want to just be happy with mediocrity and being the “little team that could”, then bravo. They have accomplished exactly what they wanted to.
Right now I think it’s a safe bet with the youth, and the emerging stars with the Twins that they should be the team to beat in the Central this coming season.
5 starters that could all win between 14 and 17 games next year. One of the 3-4 best closers in the game. The top catcher/batting champ in baby jesus, and then throw in former MVP, and MVP runner up Morneau… the thing this team needs the most was right handed power, and with Cuddyer healthy, Gomez and Young a year older that should help that.
They should have upgraded at SS, and 3rd base, but when you compare the 2nd half Bonser last year compared to the 1st half, and had Meijes instead of Reyes, and Humber instead of Rincon… the bullpen should actually be better.
Though they could still use one more arm in the pen.
Sign Wiggington and John Smoltz or Saio from the Dodgers and this team is going to be in a pretty good spot.
And that’s with my hate of Bill Smith and Nick Punto.
we should move Cuddy back to third to get all of our best bats in the lineup:
1. Span
2. Casilla
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Cuddyer
6. Kubel
7. Young
8. Punto/Tolbert/Harris (SS)
9. Gomez
beltre could only come to the twins at the expense of some of our core players..that cant happen, that is why so many people are pleading for wigginton to be signed, as i said earlier blake not signing was a blessing in disguise if we can get ty to play 3b….by looking at highlites of wiggy he seems to be a guy that hits to all fields too, not just a dead pull hitter which is a very good thing, as one of his highlites was a homerun to rt field and another one to left center
Twins will be no worse in 2009 than 2008. Whether that will be good enough to win the division remains to be seen. Not signing a 3B will not doom the Twins to a 70 win season anymore than losing Torii and Johan did last year. The starting rotation should be better with Liriano instead of Hernandez. BP will be better without Rincon and Bass.
Cuddy at 3B is a “Can’t Catch22″
Adrian Beltre and Wladimir Balentin for Delmon Young and Phil Humber
Geno…
I expected Baker to be a failure like he had been in 2005,06, and the beginning of 07.
I didn’t expect Perkins to be 100% healthy, or Liriano to make the impact that he did last year.
I was also wrong on them resigning Joe Nathan last year.
Who in the world thought anything would happen with Casilla or Span?
So this is even with my dislike of the front office, and the impassioned dislike of Punterrible. I don’t understand Gardy’s mentality at all, but he wins.
My biggest concern is that this is an every other year team… which means that this team won’t hit for squat in 2009, and they win 74 games just like I projected them last year.
Andy McPhail
There is no way that the Mariners would toss in Balentin.
They probably wouldn’t take Young and Humber for Beltre. Probably want more.
Add Buscher into that mix and they may consider it.
With full seasons under their belt, one would hope that the starting rotation built some endurance and will be able to add innings that they weren’t able to last year. If they can manage to pitch a few games into the 7th and 8th, it will do wonders to whoever they wind up with in the BP. My opinion only, but I’m not as down on the guys we currently have on roster and believe last year’s collapse was more of an anomaly. Crain was coming off surgery. How does Guerrier go from an ERA of 2.3 to 5.1 in a single season (with two previous seasons of 3.3)? Breslow was an unsung hero of this team and Mijares showed some real promise in the end. And I think Bonser will settle down nicely…I hope. THUS! I’m of the minority opinion that a bat or two (especially if it helps shore up the infield) is a higher priority than a reliever. Good to be talking baseball with -25 windchills outside!
Cuddy I could see playing some 3rd this year but it would not be a good fit. My guess is he won’t though.
So you are telling me we traded a top 3 rotation pitcher, starting SS (forcing us to sign our back-up for big $$), and promising reliever for 3 bench guys…. NICE!!!
BC, the Twins DO play poorly in odd-numbered years…..
best bat lineup would look like this….
span cf
casilla 2b
mauer c
morneau 1b
wigginton 3b
kubel dh
cuddyer rf
young lf
punto ss
gomez,redmond,tolbert, harris,buscher all depending on size of pitching staff
that lineup would be pretty strong but i doubt gomez will sit–he will play or be in AAA
Walter you mean like 87 and 91?
We had a nice run by Castilla, Span, Punto, and the starting pitching. Remeber ‘06 BC, MVP, Cy Young?? Good luck in ‘09 with this roster - there is ZERO room for error or guys not playing at thier highest levels for the whole season. We NEED a 3B and a Releiver!
Walter you mean like 87 and 91?
No. I meant like ‘65.
Wow, I actually agree with BC Beneke today! I think you’re right, the other teams in the Central aren’t going to be that good. The major benefit of a young team is that experience racks up quickly - most of the Twins will benefit significantly from another year, especially the pitching staff. Stu, I’d be happy if Punto and Cuddyer were “just average”. Remember, this isn’t Lake Woebegone - HALF of the players in the league ARE BELOW AVERAGE, by definition of average. You can probably win the division with 16-18 above average players if a few are studs. Go Twins!
as for who’s in the lineup - if we go with the outfielders Joe lists, don’t you think that Cuddy AND Delmon would play against lefties? At least some of the games, Span or Kuebel gets a day off… Red dog too if it fits Mauer’s day off.
Every time I start to miss Torii, I remember inside the park homers.
yes, what a blessing it would be, if the twins starters could become 7 inningers rather than 6 - imagine a bullpen that only had to get 6 outs…what dream over last year and others past
Too early to predict wins for next year. Wait until spring training. Too many good free agents are unsigned at this point. Imagine how the balance of the division change for example if Manny decided to finish his career at the place he started it, same with Smoltz… Too early
remember how the indians did last year after nearly making it to the ws!
I guess I wouldn’t mind seeing Harris play at Third more often. I did not think he had the range at SS, but he has a solid arm. I think he could be a good enough fit if he could have a similar year as his 2007 in TB(.286/12 HR/ 59 RBI/ 35 2B/ .434 SLG); compare to Ty Wigginton’s 2008 (.285/ 23 HR / 58 RBI / 22 2B / .526 SLG) Yeah, Wigginton had a few more Homeruns, but they had similar numbers. Is Wigginton worth $10 million per year? I don’t think so. I would like to see the Twins make a serious effort for Wigginton though (not the same old, “Oh, we tried” i.e. “We offered Santana $80 million, when others were offering $140 million; or, we offered Hunter $45 million when others offered $90 million”). It will be interesting to see how the market drives up the price.
Ugghh… Drop Harris as soon as possible…. And what ever happened to that Korecky kid? He had his moments of looking good… no chance of seeing him again?
Kubel should get more AB’s this year and should be the FT DH reserve OF. He kept pace with Morneau in the HR department and improved against LH pitchers last year.
Cuddyer at 3b? He makes Wigginton look like Brooks Robinson. The problem with keeping Cuddyer is that he still has a little value and could bring something in a trade. After he hits .245 this year with 9 home runs he won’t bring a plugged nickel.
Someone wake up Sleepy Bill Smith and tell him to go to work and try to earn his paycheck. I think he had to pay gift tax on his salary last year.
Our lineup would look like this:
1)Span, LF
2)Casilla, 2B
3)Mauer, C
4)Burrell, DH
5)Morneau, 1B
6)Atkins, 3B
7)Young/Kubel, RF
8)Punto, SS
9)Gomez, CF
Gardy would love it: 2 piranhas at the top and bottom. OBP threats in Span, Mauer, Burrell, Morneau, and Atkins.
eddieshore—- Thank god someone besides me is giving Breslow some love… he was the only guy in our bullpen besides Nathan that I didn’t hold my breath every pitch.
p4p
I was lovin Breslow before you were lovin Breslow 
I wonder if Gardy puts Cuddy back in between Mauer and Morneau cuz he loves his ‘left right left’ thing so much?
How can you be happy if Cuddyer and Punto are “average”? Twins fans need to set their Expectations higher than that. Cuddyer has had one good year and Punto is a reserve, but the manager is seeing these guys as starters. The money the Twins spent to sign these guys, they better produce more than just average numbers.
I was a Breslow fan last year. I thought he pitched very well.
The Twins aren’t going to score as many as 829 runs again with this lineup. But their defense and pitching should be better. Only 2 A.L. teams committed more errors. (We really stunk at 2nd and 3rd defensively.) And the team ERA was only a little better than average. So their overall run-differential (+84) may remain the same.
Also, Pridie better not make this team unless there is an injury. It’s ridiculous to even consider him as part of the 25-man roster. We have enough outfielders.
Here is a lineup, and it would be our best run producting lineup with only one move, adding Wiggington. No pressure on Cuddy or Young to be big boppers, and they would be a pretty formidable #7 & 8 hitters in any lineup.
1) CF Span (L)
2) 2B Casilla (S)
3) C Mauer (L)
4) 1B Morneau (L)
5) 3B Wiggington (R)
6) DH Kubel (L)
7) LF Cuddy (R)
RF Young (R)
9) SS Punto (S)
John Castino,
if Cuddy and Punto are average, how many of our starters are below average?
I’m guessing it is your position that they are the two worst starters we have. If that is the case, having your two worst starters as average pretty much guarantees that your team is pretty darn good, don’t you think?
Wasn’t Bill Smith’s stated objective this offseason to:
1. Improve the left side of the infield, and
2. Improve the bullpen?
How’s he doing on that so far?
I think you need to also rethink the Redman signing in light of the contracts given to Punto and Cuddyer. Gardy has his favorites, like many coaches. It’s one thing to play favorites with the players you are given. But Gardy is clearly influencing the front office’s personnel decisions and they are awarding Gardy’s “buddies” with fat contracts. I love Redman, but is he really worth what they gave him? Mauer is a veteran now. He doesn’t need a grizzled veteran to back him up. Twins could use the spot to develop a young catcher. Same with Punto re-signing. Is Punto really the answer for the next 2+ seasons at SS? Harris and especially Tolbert have no real chance to improve now.
Breslow won me over the first game he played in a Twins uniform… I was actually sitting right behind the bullpen…. we were facing the Yankees and he struck out A-rod and Abreu and I think made Damon ground out… So no one answered my other question…. what happened to Korecky? I didn’t think he did too bad…. a few more reps in the big leagues and I think he could be a decent middle reliever.
Walter Johnson…
I think that signing Redman is a great move because Mauer could break down, and I think that having who we have in AAA, and coming up… I would want Redman here to mentor and play significant ABs with our young catchers just in case.
Signing Punto however for 8.5 to 13.5 million over the next 2-3 years… that is a baseball crime against humanity. Signing Cuddyer to 3 years and 24 million was a bad decision, but based off of his breakout 2006 season… I can see it as an easy mistake to make. Punto however… there is no excuse.
Chief,
The left side of the infield was improved by signing a free agent (Punto)to replace what we had on our roster at the time. (Harris)
USAFChief -
1. Hasn’t
2. Hasn’t
Bill Smith gets an F so far this off-season.
Still waiting for a 3rdbaseman
Wouldn’t it be better to have a young catcher getting some more regular time in the minors than to come up and play once every 5 games or so?
Let a guy like Morales (or whoever is the “top catcher” in the system) get that extra year in the minors and then bring him up in 2009.
And Chief: The offseason isn’t over. Everybody was wigging out in the first week of December last year because Smith hadn’t done anything to keep Morneau and Nathan around.
Long story short…there’s a LOT of teams that haven’t done much/anything. And there’s still several key players who I don’t believe have found homes. Once guys like Texeira and Rameriez start landing contracts, other FAs will be more than willing to talk.
And I don’t know how you think trades work, but it certainly isn’t Smith knocking on the door of a club, making a request, and it automatically being granted.
Yes, that’s even if Smith makes sure to mention that USAFChief demands immediate closure.
sane - Punto was with the club last year, how can you say they improved? To say that is very Terry Ryanish.
Bill Smith gets an F so far this off-season.
I sincerely hope you aren’t a teacher.
“Well, Billy. I know it’s only been a few weeks of first grade, but because you haven’t learned your multiplication tables…I’m afraid you’ve failed. Please report back next year.”
Bill Smith had better hurry up and fix the Twins deficiencies.
Our next game is only 3 1/2 months away.
Makes sense to me sane. The sooner Smith hurries up and signs Wiggington the sooner people can start hating the aquisition and wishing he were Blake.
The offseason isn’t any fun until we can start predicting how many wins this team won’t have.
Bill Smith is an F so far for his career as GM.
Since 1991 I have been duping the clueless fans into believing I was going to put money into the team and produce a winning playoff team. Suckers. Thanks for all the money. I’am so rich that even I lost count of my money.
P.S. Food Consessions are going up again… Hahahahahahahahahha!
Most people on this blog get an F in Holding Your Water 101.
So Blake, who may/may not have been the answer, was scooped up.
Now Wiggington’s the answer.
For the sake of conversation…let’s see what people feel is the “priority” when it comes to 3B free agents.
Off the top of my head…top three are
Blake
Wiggington
Crede.
Though by the time we’re talking to Crede I’m starting to wonder if a trade for a guy like Atkins wouldn’t be a better direction.
As far as shortstops go, I made Orlando Cabrera my “Christ I overly covet this guy and want him on our team” pick of 2008 (replacing OF Aaron Rowand from 2007)
Sane, you can’t be serious. Punto is an upgrade over Punto?
Perhaps T doesn’t understand the meaning of “so far.” Good thing HE’s not a teacher.
I ask again: how’s Bill Smith doing on his stated goals for the offseason…so far?
I’d say he’s drawn an oh-fer. And managed to have his manager add some controversy to the outfield as a little side benefit.
Let’s hope the offseason improves.
Sane put it best…you can’t grade the offseason when it’s barely even started yet.
It’s basically just looking for a reason to complain.
Chief,
“Punto is an upgrade over Punto?”
No.
Punto is an upgrade over “no Punto” which is what we had on the roster when free agencies were declared in early November.
Bill Smith has not reached his goals, SO FAR.
Usually the free agent list is signed from the top down.
After the large predators (Yankees, Angels, Red Sox) eat the prime meat (Manny, Tex, CC, Burnette), then the scavengers eat the end cuts.
Don’t you watch Animal Planet?
Here’s some other interesting talking points.
1) Everett to the Tigers? For real? They had defensive troubles last year on the corners…and after watching Everett even when he was “back” I doubt he’s ever going to get the arm strength 100%.
2) Yankees get Sabathia AND Burnett? Meet the new Boss, same as the one before. Is anybody else wondering what that rotation’s going to look like in 3 years or so…? Isn’t Sabathia another of “those guys” that Yankee fans accuse A-Rod of being (key all season but chokes in the playoffs?)
3) Who gets Tex? (Or has he landed?) Having lost Rodriquez and Texeriea, what does Anaheim do to recover?
Actually, here’s #4…which is rather interesting.
4) Will the Rays seriously move MVP Jason “No seriously, Longoria’s like 90 feet away” Bartlett? Is that the definition of selling high? Who’s the one that’s “high” at the moment?
Okay, let’s ask that simple question, who is left in FA’s that can help this team on the left side of the INF or the BP?
Wiggington is a horrible fielder, but has some pop. Anyone else out there that can help? Maybe Tony Batista is available? How about Pablo Ozuna, Juan Uribe, or Craig Council? Mike Lamb sounds better than those guys!
BP help: There’s still a lot of names out there surprising though, Denys Reyes is the only one of the list I would be interested in but the Twins aren’t.
Walter
good points on the buddy brigade. obviously his love for punto and the gang overrides his belief the readiness of guys like Tolbert (and of course he’ll never like Harris). I know we have solid catchers in the minors, but could the hurt from one more year of AAA? Redman is not that expensive to be one of the best backup catchers in the game and being able to happily put in the SAME spot as Mauer and him actually producing there? amazing
Pridie does not make the 25 man. he’s basically the same player we already have on the team - good D, speedy, singles hitter (we’ve got a crap load of those). This team loves to develop pitchers and I don’t see them giving up either of Humber or Bonser w/o trading them (meaning they make the team). I also see them making an effort to keep Jones if they like what they see in Spring Training - meaning that he either makes the team in place of Humber/Bonser or we trade a low level guy to the Yanks for him
I have to say this once - GoGo does not start at CF next year. I love the guy, don’t get me wrong, but he just doesnt get it at the plate. Even as a 9 guy, he has so many bad at bats. I want him at AAA
Depending on the budget, the left-side FA’s are Furcal, Cabrera, Wigginton, Crede and the Pips.
medschool: This isn’t “my point”, but it’s one that has been suggested several times. Isn’t it possible that Gomez’s problem is learning MLB pitching…which he won’t see in the minors?
Castino…I already asked that question. And gave my answer. I’d be interested in yours.
Complete List:
Shortstops
Angel Berroa (31)
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Orlando Cabrera (34) - Type A, offered arb
Alex Cintron (30)
Alex Cora (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
David Eckstein (34)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Chris Gomez (38)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Aaron Miles (32)
Tomohiro Nioka (33)
Luis Rivas (29)
Juan Uribe (30) - Type B, not offered arb
Omar Vizquel (42)
Third basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Aaron Boone (36)
Craig Counsell (38)
Joe Crede (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Ramon Martinez (36)
Pablo Ozuna (34)
Juan Uribe (30) - Type B, not offered arb
Ty Wigginton (31)
Twins came within a coin flip of the 5th division title in 7 years. I am betting a lot of you critics picked them to have no better than a .500 record in any of thse years. We could get ARod at 3rd and whoever you want at ss and whoever you want in the bullpen and you would still find all sorts of holes. The fact is even with no offseason help this shapes up to be the best team of the decade. We have never had such a solid rotation going into a season and with Casilla, Span, Gomex and Young with a full season under their belts and considering who they replaced at the start of last year how can you be so pessimistic. Look at EVERY homepage of every team in the league and you will find fans complaining of holes in the lineup, pen or rotation. There is no such thing as the perfect team. I predict 95 wins and the league title. Of course they may end up in 4th if they don’t play well. If you want sure things go bet on the Generals.
T
He didn’t exactly light the world on fire in the minors either. I’d rather him see a lot of ‘good’ curves and sliders (and actually hit them and build confidence/the ability) than swinging and missing at a ‘great’ curve or slider. I like baby steps instead of throwing the kid in the fire. Isn’t that what we do with our pitching?
Okay, pick the the cheapest guy on the list and I will sign him. You can thank me by selling out the stadium…
“Punto is an upgrade over “no Punto” which is what we had on the roster when free agencies were declared in early November.”
In the immortal words of Dwight Schrute, “That’s debatable.”
“…you can’t grade the offseason when it’s barely even started yet.”
Then why does my son get a progress report 1/2 way through the semester? You know, letting me know how he’s doing…SO FAR?
I guess his teachers are just looking for a reason to complain.
meds,
The basic difference between a MLB slider and a AAA slider is:
A AAA slider most often misses the strike zone and to “lay off it” is the solution.
An MLB slider is in the strike zone often and must be dealt with. “Laying off it” is the wrong approach.
Two different approaches, and only one of those approaches works in the Big Leagues.
Sane
If only he’d be facing our AAA pitching..then he’d learn to not lay off it.
Chief,
Your son’s progress is measurable at nearly all incremental time points in the semester.
Bill Smith’s progress can’t be measured at every increment of time.
He gains yards like Barry Sanders:
0,0,0,touchdown,0.
By April 1, I hope he has recorded a touchdown at some point in time.
USAFChief -
Alright. I’ll grade Smith. I’ll give him a ‘B’. I look at the positives - not giving 18.5 million to someone like Renteria, not giving 9.5 to Kyle Farnsworth, not giving 20 to Kerry Wood, not dealing Delmon Young for crap, not agreeing to the crazy high prices asked for by the Rockies for Garrett Atkins - and say he has been very good.
BC Beneke-Some how i’m not surprised you BS a F!Now that you are the new GM,would you add Wiggy and Joe Nelson?
meds,
If Gomez learns only “to lay off the slider”, he will be destroyed by MLB pitchers who can pound the strike zone with it.
opps-gave BS a F
Sane
Would you call the Blake signing an ‘interception’?
and ok, you have a point. Gomez in the 9th spot and I am fine with that, as long as Young gets at bats too. We’ll need someone like Wiggy though to help with production.
Who says the Twins would have beaten the Sox if that 1 game playoff game was at the Dome?
They couldn’t even take 2 of 3 from KC on the final weekend!
Maybe “Delay of the Game”
sane-Gomez will not learn to”lay off sliders” playing at Rochester,he must learn it in the big show!
Geno,
I would not add Wiggnington right now. I would look to make a trade before adding Wiggington.
I would keep one of my assistants keeping an eye on that situation to see how close to signing with someone else he was.
But I don’t put Wiggington ahead of Blake as a 3rd baseman, and I would guess Wiggington would get a similar salary. So a Trade is a better solution.
I would still look at what it would take to get Kouzmanoff or even Atkins before hand. But as for the 3rd basemen that are out there… Wiggington is going to be the top guy that I like at 3rd right now…
GENO,
That’s exactly my point!
Would someone please proofread and edit this article for the writer. It amazes me when I catch a mistake that someone who gets paid to do such things misses it.
My bad!
My point is that he has to learn to lay off sliders AND how to hit sliders.
If its low, let it go.
If its high, let ‘er fly.
How can people say Casey Blake was a better option than Ty Wiggington? Wiggy hits for a higher average, almost identical OBP, higher slugging %, plays better defense, and oh, he’s 4 years younger. Someone tell me why Blake is a better player??? We sign Wiggy, we put up this lineup
1)CF Span (L)
2)2B Casilla (S)
3)C Mauer (L)
4)1B Morneau (L)
5)3B Wiggington (R)
6)DH Kubel (L)
7)LF Cuddy (R)
8)RF Young (R)
9)SS Punto (S)
Gomez can play in AAA until he learns a little plate discipline.
Andrew,
You should have a question mark at the end of your first sentence.
This is an extremely weak draft class this year. I would personally trade one of the picks for a proven player or a pick and a player for a proven player. Maybe like a Marcus Camby type or a PG
Jason Stark
“There are close to 100 bats still on the market. And most of them look as if they’re going to have big trouble getting anywhere near the paycheck they had in mind.
The Phillies, Angels and Mets have serious interest in Raul Ibanez, so he’ll be fine. The Cubs and Rays have zeroed in on Milton Bradley. And you can bet your inauguration tickets that Adam Dunn will land in Washington if Teixeira doesn’t. But guys such as Bobby Abreu, Pat Burrell and Jason Giambi look as though they’re in for hefty pay cuts and maybe no more than a two-year deal. And everybody else would be best advised to grab for the first decent paycheck that comes along.”
Pat Burrell - significant pay cut and a 2 year deal? Sign him up 
Now that you are the new GM,would you add Wiggy and Joe Nelson?
BC first has to go talk to the teams to which he dealt Casilla and Span (pardon…”FLUSH!”) during the 2007 offseason. If he’s lucky, maybe he can get them back in time to be starting 1/2 hitters.
Geno…
I agree with Sane.
if I couldn’t trade one of the 5 OF’s on the roster right now, Gomez would be the guy that was most likely to be sent down unless he had a monster Springtraining.
1) He’s a Boras client meaning he would be likely to test FA as soon as possible, and to gut us in Arbitration until then.
2) The more at bats in AAA he gets the less at bats he gets meaning he won’t be arbitration eligable after the 2009 season.
3) He needs 500+ABs and I think he would do better at AAA than he would at the majors…
He has the most upside of all the outfielders, but he is also the most frustrating of the group as well. And his learning curve should not have to detract from Delmon’s need to grow, Cuddyer’s need to get atbats, and Span needs to get the at bats, and can play centerfield.
Play Gomez in CF in AAA and Pridie in RF or LF in AAA and we actually then have some real depth in the outfield.
Texeira…in Washington?
shaun,
TOO-SHAY!
T-
I admitted I was wrong on Span, and I don’t remember even mentioning Casilla at all last offseason… I didn’t expect him to be a factor one way or the other, but if I did… I did.
And if we didn’t have Casilla at 2nd base I’d be ok with going into 2009 with Tolbert at 2nd.
If we didn’t have Span whom I would have cut this time last year… we wouldn’t have the OF talk now, and and the OF would be Young, Gomez, and Cuddyer.
I don’t think there’s a chance in hell Gomez starts the season in AAA.
Whether he should is another question altogether.
I would also look at Saito to come in and be the 8th inning guy for this team. He could also give us a link to th Japanese game where we might actually bring in some talent that way!
USAFChief…
I do agree with you. Gomez will be with the big club.
I’m just saying that of the 5 he’s the guy I would send down to get the fulltime atbats if I had to keep all 5.
trading away… in order of priority to me
1. Cuddyer
2. Young
3. Kubel
4. Gomez
5. Span
BC
And pay millions just to talk to them (ie Daisuke), let alone sign them to a long-term deal? No thanks
How good is Saito though? does he have the stuff for an 8th inning guy or is he just good enough/would be our best option as the 8th inning guy?
As long as Japanese doesn’t mean Tony Batista and Lew Ford I think that you may be on to something. 
T,
Good one!
RReeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
medschoolmatt–
That article must be old; Ibanez is already a Philly. But you’re right about Burrell. Take a look at his vs. L/R OPS splits over the past four years:
vs LHP/RHP
2008: 950/840
2007: 950/880
2006: 1012/837
2005: 994/853
For comparison, look at Morneau:
2008: 778/928
2007: 693/907
2006: 904/951
2005: 586/811
Also, take a look at Dunn:
2008: 773/951
2007: 789/1024
2006: 896/836
2005: 784/1001
I personally don’t have a problem loading up LF bats in our lineup; aren’t 60-70% of all starters RHP?
CF,SS,2B,C are primarily defensive positions. Gomez is one of the top 5 (conservatively) defensive CFs in the majors. There is no way he should or will go to AAA. The Twins are blessed with an offensive catcher, so they can afford to keel a light hitting LF (Span). The other positions (1B,3B,RF,DH) should be able to produce some power. 1B and DH are fine, RF will probably be ok but 3B needs a power bat
BC
You’d trade away Young before Kubel?
Kubel: solid .270 average (mostly against righties though), ~20 HR’s, ~60-70 RBI’s, ‘close your eyes’ defense in RF (no way he plays CF or LF).
Young: .290, developing power and RBI’s, great defense in RF (where he should have been…), and the sky’s the limit for him. Oh and he’s uncer club control and cheaper
I have to agree to disagree (as much as I like kubel)
AM,
the problem with that thought is that decent LOOGYs can make you pay if you have a team loaded with LH Bats who cannot hit lefties…
How can “they” think the BP just needs some in house tweaking? ANy bullpen that goes into a season with Crain and Guerrier in meaningful spots and a Boof (bad), Humber (unproven) & Jason Jones (unknown) as a ready for primetime bullpen. This would be OK if the Twins had a rotation of Dempster, Zambrano, Harden and maybe Peavy. But as good as the young starters are the Twins formula success actually depends on a strong bullpen.
Oh by the way, you’ve got to trade Delmon at this point. At least if Gardy’s wish is to be the way they go into the season.
…Doesn’t Pat the Bat hit from the right side (which is a main reason I want him…)?
thrylos–
Fair enough. (But Dunn is still better than any hitter we’ve got.)
You are right about the up the middle positions. Mauer, Gomez, and Punto are actually a strong defensive core; we should be looking to add offense to the corners.
I still think the best plan is my suggestion to sign Burrell as DH and throw a significant offer at Colorado for Atkins (that includes Cuddyer), platooning Kubel and Young in RF. Rumor that the Rockies would take Jonathan Sanchez for Atkins. If so, wouldn’t Perkins/Cuddyer/prospect be plausible?
I’m still afraid it will be DY, and we’ll be selling low.
‘09 Central Div.
Twins: 89-73
Clev.: 87-75
Chi: 80-82
Det: 79-83
KC: 76-86
medschoolmatt–
Yes, Burrell’s a righty. Dunn’s the lefty I was referring to as “overloading.” I’m sure we would never sign Dunn, even if he’s the best option, because we’d have Mauer/Morneau/Dunn/Kubel.
We won’t sign Burrell either, even though he would be a great signing for us.
The Wigginton fascination amazes me.
How can someone who covers the team even remotely suggest it?
ANyone who actually follows baseball knows that is a bad move unless he is available for dirt cheap. Some of the things I read are more than amusing.
hm i think this is about the 10th time I’ve put this, but now it is even more plausible with Wiggy as a FA and Burrell deemed ‘2nd tier’ and I saw somewhere on here that we are at about 60 mill in payroll…
3 Steps to Twins Success
1) Trade Cuddy for what you can get for him, shave 6.75 mill off the books
2) Sign Wiggy - offer 3 years 21 mill, at 6/7/8 for the salaries; add a 4th year option of 8.5-9 with a 1-2 mill buyout to sweeten the deal.
3) Sign Pat the Bat to 2 years, 20 mill - 9.5/10.5 on the salaries
total 2009 payroll: 60 - 6.75 + 6 + 9.5 = 70 mill which is where we should be.
hew-
What are the problems with signing Wiggington? Just wondering since you say it’s such a bad idea but offer no evidence as to WHY it’s so terrible.
Jake
Hew got whiff of our kool-aid and is jealous that he can’t have any
medschoolmatt-
The only problem with your idea is we then still have a crowded outfield. Who gets the 3 OF spots then, and what do we do with Kubel?
BC-we can’t trade Cuddy because his trade value is low because of the unknowns of his injuries.He might play like he did in 06 if he is injury free.Carew and Molitor are the best ones to teach GO-GO how to bunt,hit the ball up the middle and steal bases.This can accomplished in spring training!
hew is right–we have a platoon in Buscher/Harris that will put up numbers that approximate Wigginton’s numbers. No need to spend money on something we already have.
medschoolmatt–our plans match, except you need to combine 1 and 2…trade cuddy + SP to Rockies for Atkins.
Jake–Burrell is DH fulltime. Span is LF, Kubel/Young platoon in RF.
By the way, the Phillies managed to sign a new OF in Ibanez who is a worse fielder than Burrell and a worse hitter, too, amazingly enough.
Jake
Pat would never touch the outfield grass unless an emergency occurred
For the offensive lineup: Pat at DH, Kubel in RF (he’s actually serviceable there), Span in CF and Young in LF (I am betting he’ll be better this year).
Gomez is the defensive replacement and they all shift over one spot (Span to LF, Kubel to bench, Young to RF).
If we face a tough righty, Kubel would get DH over Dunn. If we are facing a tough lefty, Kubel is benched and Gomez starts in CF, with Span in LF and Young in RF
Dunn only plays the field when Morneau needs a day off at 1B
AM
I’d rather that trade go for a good relief pitcher than an overpriced and overrated 3B, a position we can sign a guy for that (I believe) is better and would only cost money, not prospects.
HEW-Why does the Wiggy fascination amaze you?Maybe if you explain why,we could know better the errors of our ways!
It is driving me absolutely up a wall that Young is apparently going to be sitting on the bench far more frequently than Cuddyer. Why did we trade Garza and Bartlett if Young was going to be given ONE YEAR? So instead of Garza in the rotation, and Bartlett holding down the middle, we have Young on the bench and Punto playing every freaking day? AGAIN?
I can’t stand this. What is the logic?
Maybe it will all start to make sense to me when Cuddyer breaks a hamet bone two weeks into the season, recovers in time for the game before the All-Star break, only to pull an oblique and go back on the DL until mid-September. By that time, Nick Punto will have led this team to the playoffs, and boy, will I have egg on my face.
hew,
“ANyone who actually follows baseball knows that is a bad move unless he is available for dirt cheap.”
I am guessing that 5-6 MLB teams’ front offices (who reportedly actually follow baseball) are going to offer Wiggy an above “dirt cheap” Free Agent contract.
That means that YOU don’t ACTUALLY follow baseball close enough to have a clue.
The twins need to sign Wigginton. I have no idea why Bill Smith doesn’t do this immmediately. If the twins don’t sign a very good third baseman, the fans should boycott the twins next spring.
In terms of our options for 3B, I stated my preferences earlier:
Option #1 Atkins (840 career OPS)
Option #2 Beltre (790 OPS plus great glove)
Option #3 Wigginton (790 OPS)
Option #4 Buscher/Harris platoon (760 OPS vs R, 800 OPS vs L)
The production between options 3 and 4 aren’t that big. I’d rather go with option #4 if it meant using $ to sign Burrell.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
Buscher/Harris are not equal to Wiggington. They are not going to hit 25-35 HR’s and provide the protection we need behind Morneau. Buscher is a butcher in the field, and Harris is average at best. Wiggy had very good defensive numbers if you look at ZR & Fielding %, and hit 23 HR’s in 386 AB’s, that works out to 35 HR’s over 585 AB’s. Sign him up, not even a question.
bring up revere!
Medschool - Anything we can get for Cuddyer would be a solid acquisition because 8 million for him is too much period.
I would trade Young ahead of Kubel because Young has more value in return than Kubel has.
AM
Why would you trade for Atkins if you can get Wiggington without giving talent?
Wiggington is a beter idea than our combo.
Wiggington can’t field well… neither can buscher, but Wiggington can hit 25 homers, Buscher cant.
Wiggington can’t field well… neither can Harris, but Wiggington can bat 5th in this lineup and Harris can’t either…
Thus we don’t lose much defensively… Buscher goes to AAA works on his defense like Span worked on his batting) just like Gomez should
Wiggington is a Free Agent so we don’t have to trade any of our young talent to get him.
All of these make me think that Wiggington isn’t a bad move…
However I think Atkins or Beltre or Kouzmanoff might be better for the Twins than Wiggington because they all can bat 5th in this lineup too, and they all bring other assets to the team that Wiggington doesn’t.
tvet99,
“The twins need to sign Wigginton. I have no idea why Bill Smith doesn’t do this immmediately.”
For the same reason, the other 5-6 interested teams haven’t signed him yet.
For the same reason that 95% of the FA’s haven’t been signed yet.
Each player (including Wiggy) wants to find out WHO IS OFFERING HIM THE MOST MONEY AND YEARS!
You can’t find that out, if you jump at the first good offer.
It takes TWO parties (player and team) for a free agent signing, just like it takes two parties to make a trade.
And ALL players and teams involved can hold their water better than blog posters who must have their answers NOW, 3 1/2 months before their team’s next game.
Dickybuzz
if you can get Atkins and trade Cuddyer in the deal… you solve one problem by getting rid of two others (Cuddyer being an extra OF, and 8 million dollars!)
AM: The question is, will the Twins stand a good chance of a 760/800 OPS next year?
They got a 730 OPS out of third last year. Neither Harris (.721) or Buscher (.730) were able to post a .760, even with the platoon advantage.
Well said sane-
But what fun would it be to have blogs if you couldn’t argue, speculate and demand your team do something NOW!
BC: While Young may have value outside this team more than Kubel…Young has more value inside this team than Kubel
If you assume all else being equal…Young gets an edge for being Younger, healthier, and under team control for longer.
The things that make Young more valuable in a trade are also the reasons the Twins need him in the lineup.
Span LF
Casilla 2b
Mauer C
Morneau 1b
Wigginton 3b
Kubel DH Young/Cuddyer
Young/Cuddyer RF
Punto SS
Gomez CF
I can’t see not having Gomez in center as I believe he will continue to develop into an all star caliber player as well as Delmon. To me the odd man out is Cuddyer.
Go Go’s glove and range are enough to keep him in the bigs.
Jake,
“But what fun would it be to have blogs if you couldn’t argue, speculate and demand your team do something NOW!”
I like argueing and speculating.
Demanding?
Not so much.
T-
I don’t disagree with you except when it comes to what we could get in return.
If I had the choice of getting the exact same thing for one or the other player… I agree with you 100% and then I would keep Young over Kubel, but in getting other players from other teams… I don’t think we could get as much for Kubel as we could for Young.
I’m not adverse to keeping all 5 outfielders, and putting Gomez in AAA for the beginning of the season.
Joe C.,
Not to sound mean but everyone know’s what the roster would look like. It’s typical Twins style, we have not done a damn thing.
.876 OPS for Wiggy last year vs .721 for Harris and .730 for Buscher, and those two hit 11 HR’s in 652 AB’s, Wiggy hit 23 in 386 AB’s. I just don’t see how this is even a debate.
Joe C,
Everyone know’s this. We have not done anything.
Gomez Defense is enough to keep him in the Bigs…
yep,
But what do you do with Cuddyer (great RF arm, and coming off an injury and a Gardy boy), Span (a very good defensive outfielder that learned how to hit last year and could play CF in the Metrodome without much of a drop), Delmon Young who has pop in his bat, is a possible middle of the lineup kind of guy, a great defensive arm, and has improved his conditioning this offseason), and Kubel who is a solid 4th OF guy that happened to hit 20 homers last season)
Couple that with Boras and keeping Gomez away from arbitration… he’s the guy I would start in AAA as of this moment, but that’s why they have Spring Training right? If Gomez, Span and Young all have great springs, and Cuddyer looks lost… or Kubel gets hurt, or something… then it’s not a bad idea to keep them all…
Unless you can get a guy like Kouzmanoff, Beltre, or Atkins…
jake,
“876 OPS for Wiggy last year vs .721 for Harris and .730 for Buscher, and those two hit 11 HR’s in 652 AB’s, Wiggy hit 23 in 386 AB’s. I just don’t see how this is even a debate.”
Excellent summation!
Just to reiterate the point, Wiggy .876 OPS, Morneau “only” had an .873 OPS, Beltre posted an unimpressive .784, Kouz was at .732 (thanks to a .260 BA and .299 OBP) and Atkins was .780 playing half his games in the air up there. Again, shouldn’t even be a debate.
Actually OPS doesn’t cut it in that comparison. You need to use OPS+. Add isoP and makes a whole lot of difference:
Option #1 Atkins (108 career OPS+, .176 isoP)
Option #2 Beltre (107 OPS+, .188 isoP plus great glove)
Option #3 Wigginton (105 OPS+, .190)
Option #4 Buscher/Harris platoon (93 OPS+, .093 isoP vs R, 97 OPS+ .139 isoP vs L)
So:
Buscher is below the average 3B both offensively and defensively and does not belong to a contender as a starting 3B, Harris has the flexibility to play other position and belongs to a bench. Beltre is higher than the other 2, but given what you need to give up in players and their salaries, Wigginton is by far the best choice. Atkins doesn’t cut it, esp at the player cost.
Jake and thrylos,
I’m convinced!
If I had the money, I’d sign him myself!
OK I’ve listened to it all.
I like everything about our lineup except that we need a good hitting, not terrible fielding infielder (2B, SS, 3B doesn’t matter). Give me that and the line-up will not be responsible for us not winning 90 games. I like 5 OF/DH for 4 positions. Gomez/Span/Cuddy will be a fine leather-flashing OF against good pitching in big ballparks. Mix and match in other situations.
That’s why not signing Blake hurts, I think he filled our hole without costing talent. Best remaining circumstance for 2009- Beltre. We could absorb losing Blackburn/Perkins and obviously Harris/Busher. Would these plus their choice of any eligible minor leaguer (eligible excludes recent draftees) except Valencia do it.
That’s the absolute most I’d be willing to give and its probably too much (Blackburn, Harris and Mulvey,Swarzek or Revere)
Anyway, sign Wiggington and use the above to get a power reliever and I’m OK with 2009.
However! Let’s focus on 2010 and beyond. I want a swell next summer but let’s be poised for a several year run with the new stadium.
Having said this it pains me more to lose Blake. Was it really over 3M in 2011. While 3M is real money to me, it doesn’t seem like much when it dovetails so nicely with our needs.
Beltre kind of blows ever since he got off steroids. The value of his production for the $ and trade pieces just isn’t there.
Here is another way to Put the 2 year $8.5 mil deal for Punto into perspective:
Cesar Izturis (career 67 OPS+) singed a 2 year/ $6 mil deal with the Orioles
I think Twins fans want Bill Smith to sign Wigginton just so they can say “Wiggy” all season.
Let’s focus on 2010 and beyond.
funny thing is that in 2010 Liriano and Perkins are arbitration eligible and in 2011, Slowey is added to the 2 above and Mauer’s contract is up. By then, the Twins chance might just not be there…
If Beltre “blows” based on his production the last 2 years:
26 and 25 HR, 99 and 77 RBI, 112 and 109 OPS+, 2 gold gloves,
then what does Buscher?
For starters, please stick Punto on the bench, he is not worth $8M. Why is Cuddyer automatically the starter in RF? I know we signed him to a big long term deal, but Delmon proved to be a vital asset to our team while Cuddyer was hurt. I don’t think we should make Delmon ride the pine just because Cuddyer is healthy. If we do choose to stick Delmon on the bench, we may as well trade him. Buscher is not the future at third base, we could use Delmon to get someone better.
Always worried about the future the Twins are, and never worried about today. “We need to have a team for 2010 for when we open the new stadium.” I am so tired of hearing that line. How about send the dome out with a bang and with a 3rd World Series in the Homer Dome. Make some trades and bring in a bat at 3B. Give up a young pitcher and maybe Young or Cuddy and roll the dice. Please no more has beens or retreads at 3rd base and DH.
i would expect that bill smith is wining and dining wiggy tonite somewhere…well, at least he should be, as this is one time he needs to get down to business and get it done before someone else does….i want to see that this man has some guts and a real desire to put a winner on the field…..wining and dining?? yea right ..what the hell am i smokin…wanna share??
“If Beltre ‘blows’ based on his production the last 2 years:
26 and 25 HR, 99 and 77 RBI, 112 and 109 OPS+, 2 gold gloves,
then what does Buscher?”
He blows real hard, but he’s paid like it and doesn’t need to be traded for.
i can just see the signs “wiggys wankers” or something as he will be an instant crowd favorite…..other ideas??
Wiggy looks like an upgrade to me. Thanks Jake & Thrylos98 for good info. BS is probably gun shy about signing another “washed up ” vet because of all the grief he has received. But since Wiggy has not signed yet with anyone, we may be in the running as well as anyone else. Remember last year when we signed the “INSTANT UPGRADES” at SS & 3B on the 1st day they were available. We are being more cautious & Wiggy should be better (& more expensive) than Lamb & “whatshisname”. …….. Unless the SECRET PLAN is to move Cuddy back to 3B.
It will be hilarious for LaPanta to call someone else “Wiggy”!
I’m going to beat Nick Punto and leave him out on Thunder Island with Tony Batista and Ruben Sierra.
Trade for Beltre. Twins would be the best fielding team in baseball. +/+fielding, + hitting, + pitching = shot at world series.
The Man says:
December 15th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
“Trade for Beltre. Twins would be the best fielding team in baseball. +/+fielding, + hitting, + pitching = shot at world series.”
People need to stop treating this like it’s an easy option now. Minnesota is on his list of teams he can block a trade to… it’s unfortunate, because I really wanted him, but at this point, signing Wigginton looks like a total no-brainer. Especially in light of the Beltre development.
Think of it this way: signing wiggy and not trading for Beltre means we can use those pieces in a trade for a darn good set-up man. Seattle basically gave up Putz for a bunch of ‘maybes’ with maybe one major-league ready prospect among them. I think we can get a good set-up guy for one of the guys out of the pen (Humber, Bonser) plus a young gun or 2 in the minors.
Larry Stone already said it’s just a ploy to get more money. The cut payroll for 07/they have plenty of money and prospects. You have to roll the dice if you want to be in the game.
This DY stuff is really upsetting. Gardy, GIVE THE GUY A CHANCE!!! If anyone would go back and look at video of Cuddyer in RF they would see how poor of a Right fielder he is. He has a GREAT arm, but it’s what he does before he gets the ball in his glove. Delmon’s avg was close to .300. The power will come … even if it is only 20hrs a year. We all know he has a good glove, good arm and has speed. Not to mention pretty young yet. Put him in his natural RF spot with Span in CF and Gomez in LF. I can’t even believe we have to discuss and compare the upside of DY to Cuddyer and Kubel. It’s not even close. But here we are thanks to a manager who puts his foot in his mouth. When I am in the Dome this season I am going to cheer loud for DY. I hope all of you do the same. He deserves better.
Trade Cuddyer for Jack Wilson
Still attempting to figure out when Young Billy garnered a touchdown??
Here is a thought: The Astros are looking for a player to platoon with Geoff Blum at 3B. I think that the Twins should try to trade Buscher to them for a fridge prospect like Drew Sutton.
coco-Your 5:43 post speaks to the mindset of some on this blog.BS is afraid to sign a ”washed up” vet because of all the grief he would take.I’ll bet you any amount of money that he does not read this blog to decided what moves to make.Maybe Pohlad should fire the whole FO and just monitor this blog.You know how he likes to save money!
So basically the same team that folded down the stretch??? Geee…can’t wait!! Where do I send the check to renew my season tix???
“Please send Guerrier packing!
We would have won the division easily without his collapse!”
Hey moron–you’d collapse too if you were forced to pitch 2 + innings with no lead and no margin for error every single freaking day.
Savvy,
Not quite the same team. This team doesn’t even have Neshek at all, and we lost Reyes, so the bullpen will be even more overworked. WOOHOO!
I think its more likely that gardy will want a 12 man pitching staff(so 2 from bonser/humber/jones). Leaving pridie at AAA. When was the last time the twins left spring traing with a 6 man bullpen?
The Twins projected pitching staff does not have room for at least 2 pitchers, plus the Twins have MLB depth in the minors.
If they do not make some moves, they will lose talent to free agency or waivers.
keep the fab five in the rotation the only addition that i see would be benefit for the team is some way some how add a power right handed hitter whether it be a third baseman outfielder in burrell off the free agent list that way we would not have to give up anyone to obtain a power hitter. here is your lineup
span
cassila
mauer
burrell
morneau
young
busher
punto
gomez
reserves would be harris/tolbert/kubel/cuddyer/redmond
No way we should trade Cuddy now.If he gets over his injuries and plays like he did in 06,he might have trade value at the trade deadline next year.We still need a right-handed power source be it Widdy or DY!
Nick,
Twins rolled the dice to bring Young here. And showed a need to win now by extended Morneau, Cuddyer, and Nathan rather than risk seeing them walk like Hunter.
Extending Morneau was a no-brainer.
Extending Nathan was a fairly risky move that has worked out great, at least for one year.
Extending Cuddyer was a needless move that has ended up tying the Twins hands with regards to the outfield.
In any case, signing your own talent is hardly showing a ‘need to win now.’
Extending Morneau was a no-brainer.
Which is why everybody was so paranoid that it would never get done and Morneau would be in pinstripes before the new stadium opened.
Like I’ve said before. Just because you ignored the fact they happened doesn’t mean they aren’t a sign of a changing mentality.
Also, extending their contracts is absolutely a sign to want to win now. Otherwise they’d let them walk for draft picks (Hunter) or deal them to “reload” (Santana).
And the only reason Cuddyer ties the Twins hands is because Span decided he wanted to surprised Everybody and not suck in 2008.
What a sorry-ass lineup!! Who is in charge? The captain of the Titanic?
sane, you made the statement that there are 3 1/2 months till we play again, but that is just the mistakes the twins always make, wait too long and nobody is left but a bunch of has-beens which we have had to put up with the last how many years. Make a deal on Wigginton now. Only makes sense to get him as a free agent rather than some other 3rd baseman and have to trade away our young talent.
Jake and thrylos–
(And I know you’re never supposed to admit this on a blog)…You’ve convinced me. Wigginton is an upgrade over the Buscher/Harris platoon (although the OPS numbers you used weren’t the platoon splits, Jake), and enough of one, that it is worth doing.
But my preferred two moves for the Twins is still
1)trading Cuddyer + SP for either Atkins or Beltre, both of whom are better options than Wigginton or Buscher/Harris at third, and
2)then (if Atkins is the new 3B because Beltre is too expensive) signing Burrell as DH.
These two moves, admittedly, are probably both pipe dreams. It really doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch, and other teams in a similar situation WOULD consider such moves, but not the Twins.
I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Twins will not sign Ty Wiggington. If they were going to sign him it would have already happened just like they jumped on Lamb and Everett last year when they were non-tendered. This team is going to go with a Harris-Buscher platoon which is an absolute joke in my mind. The Twins chose Target as the sponser for their new ballpark. What is Target’s slogan “Expect more pay less.” Cheap old Carl has been doing this for years. By the way we are still 15-20 million less in payroll than in 2007 since Santana and Hunter left.
Signing Burrell will yield maybe 10 more HRs than Kubel for about 5x the price over multiple years. I don’t get the logic when people suggest him.
As for Atkins, I also really cannot get how people think of him as a great option at third base. I just don’t think you can ignore those home/road splits, and he’s going to be an expensive extension if we get him. Plus, the Rockies are asking for a ton.
They won’t take Cuddyer and a SP… they’re asking for Young/Span, a starter, and a prospect last we heard. That’s absurd. They actually thought they had a chance to get Span, Slowey, and prospects for Atkins?
If they did acquire him, I’d cheer for him and hope he proved me wrong, but look at his career. His numbers away from Coors are horrid, barring his outrageous 2006.
In case you’ve ‘forgotten,’ T, or YOU are just ignoring it, the Twins signed both Hunter and Santana (and Mauer, for that matter) to one relatively expensive extension as well.
Hardly any ‘change in philosophy’ that they extended Morneau. I don’t think there was ever any chance he wouldn’t get a multi-year deal.
The ‘change in philosophy’ would be for the Twins to go out and sign somebody else’s ‘talent.’
But continue to make stuff up. It’s entertaining.
But continue to make stuff up. It’s entertaining.
So the three extensions in 2008 and the Young/Garza trade never happened?
Jon:
The Twins “jumped” on Lamb and Everett because they were not as highly regarded as Free Agents.
Wiggington appears to be on several teams radars. And as demonstrated by Blake…it’s tough to “jump” on a player when you aren’t the only one that wants their services.
Unless you grossly overpay.
Look at Hunter. The Angels “jumped” at him in the sense that they came in with an significantly larger offer once the other teams had gone through their own pissing matches.
This is just a thought … and one I am sure GM Smith has not or would not consider, let alone Mr. Pohlad. Would it be asking too much of the Twins to sign both Wigginton and Burrell? Then maybe trade Kubel and or Tolbert/or someone else for some relief help?
tvet99,
“sane, you made the statement that there are 3 1/2 months till we play again, but that is just the mistakes the twins always make, wait too long and nobody is left but a bunch of has-beens which we have had to put up with the last how many years. Make a deal on Wigginton now”
If you read my other posts, you would know that I advocate signing Wiggy. My point was IT CAN’T BE DONE IMMEDIATELY unless Wiggy agrees to forgo listening to all other offers which WILL NOT HAPPEN, unless he is terminally stupid.
To berate Bill Smith because he can’t get Wiggy signed immediately is nonsense.
I am NOT saying that Bill Smith should wait 3 1/2 months to start negotiations with Wiggy.
I AM saying that Bill Smith can’t sign Wiggy IMMEDIATELY by the force of his own will, if Wiggy wants to shop around first.
Your original post says:
“The twins need to sign Wigginton. I have no idea why Bill Smith doesn’t do this immmediately.”
My 4:43PM Reply was:
For the same reason, the other 5-6 interested teams haven’t signed him yet.
For the same reason that 95% of the FA’s haven’t been signed yet.
Each player (including Wiggy) wants to find out WHO IS OFFERING HIM THE MOST MONEY AND YEARS!
You can’t find that out, if you jump at the first good offer.
I would love to see what everybody says if we trade young an he becomes a perenial 25 hr 100+ rbi guy. He has played TWO seasons in the big leagues, give him a break. HE clearly has enough talent to be picked number 1 in the draft and has the big league lineage. It is always good to have depth in the outfield and DH because there is a good chance that one of the four starters will get hurt or slump considerably. I think that maybe we should let Gomez learn how to hit and steal bases down in AAA for maybe the first half or whole season. I know that that would hurt our defense, but I think that he is the one out of the five who clearly is not yet a major league type hitter. I still think that he could have a chance to be the best and a superstar type talent if he can learn some plate discipline. I think you ride the season with all five guys and as much as I hate to say it because he is my favorite player, probably trade Cuddyer next offseason. DO NOT TRADE Young for any 3B unless his name is Wright or Ramirez. We have the money to pick up Crede or Wigginton and we don’t have to give up players. If this damn team would spend $8-10 million on Crede and trade a prospect for a power arm out of the pen they would be title contenders for the next three years! (Or at least until Mauer becomes a Yankee after 2010)
Seriously you give a Crede a 3-4 yr $26-38 mil type deal and you trade maybe a Buscher w/ pitching prospect to get a bonafide relief pitcher. Give Baker and Liraino an extension before they become ridiculously expensive. When Nathan and Cuddyer come off the books that gives you money for the Span, Gomez, Slowey, Casilla lot in arbitration. The one question is Mauer because you know he won’t offer a hometown discount and the Yankees will look at him as a Yogi Berra like fixture there for the next 7-8 years. He will probably be offered an 8 year $135 million type deal from the Yankees that we won’t be able to match. How hard is that really? You would move in to the new park in 2010 with a powerhouse of a team that would be able to legitimately play with the Yankees and Red Sox.
Kubel sits. Let Delmon Young DH if necessary. Matt Guerrier and Jesse Crain should not be retained simply because they aren’t particularly talented baseball players. I’m not sure why there’s a lot of support for two guys who give up runs almost every time they enter the game.
I think that you could count on this type of production out of this type of lineup. I think our balance would make us the favorites in the AL Central.
Span .285 8 65
Casilla .275 10 70
Mauer .325 12 90
Morneau .300 28 120
Crede .265 25 105
Cuddyer .270 18 90
Kubel .275 22 85
Young .290 20 80
Punto .260 2 35
Redmond
Harris
Tolbert
Pridie
Baker 15-10 3.50
Liriano 16-9 3.15
Slowey 15-11 3.85
Blackburn 13-12 4.00
Perkins 12-12 4.30
Nathan 2.00 ERA 40 Saves
Crain 2.75 ERA 75 Games
Mijares 3.25 ERA 65 Games
Mota
Guerrier
Breslow
Bonser/Jones
I realize that Burrell has Kubel by 70 points in OPS, but given the team’s other needs, is signing a 32-year-old outfielder who’s going to command $12MM+ (Possibly around 14, though the market has other options, which hurts his value) to a multi-year deal?
Given the strides Kubel took last season, I’d rather just keep him around for the $2.5MM or so that he’ll be making rather than shell out $35-40 million dollars to a guy who’s going to be 35-36 by the end of the contract and already would have trouble beating Redmond in a footrace…
Yes, let’s reward Crede for his past two seasons of sitting on the DL by giving him $26-$38MM.
Granted, he’d jump on the chance, but that’s only because there’s not a GM in the game right now dumb enough to give him anything more than a one-year deal with an option.
Crede’s back on the Dome’s turf… he’d be in a wheelchair by June 1st.
First off, I don’t think that is going to be the final line up. There is still a lot of time until spring and a lot can happen. I think the Twins will definitely pick up 3rd base help - either Wiggy or they pull off a trade. I wasn’t expecting anything to happen during the winter meetings. Smith talked to a lot of teams to get a feel for what was out there. Now, he’ll huddle up with his staff and discuss all their options. It’s going to take a while.
I could possibly see them getting Wiggy before Christmas - there is enough interest in the guy that he probably won’t remain unsigned very long. If they don’t, nothing will probably happen trade wise until at least January. The big Young/Garza trade last year took everybody by surprise - who knows how long that was brewing before it finally happened.
I also think they’ll turn to the farm to fill most of their bullpen needs, but I do think they’ll pick up at least one arm. I’m guessing they’ll wait until all the big spenders are done gorging themselves, then start making offers. The asking prices are going to be too high as long as the big market teams are still spending. Why sign with the Twins, when there’s a chance you could get crazy money from the Skankees or the Red Sux? They also got that rule 5 guy to look at this spring as well.
If they don’t trade off one of their outfielders, all four will get plenty of playing time. Gardy will rest guys and I don’t see Kubel being a full time DH - I’m sure others will get at bats there as well. And there are bound to be a few injuries as well. Everybody said the same thing about the Angels last year and that seemed to work out just fine.
Finally …
What’s with all the doom and gloom prognosticating? There is no way this team wins less games than they did last year. Last year, Livan was the opening day starter, started strong, then stunk the place up until well after the all-star break. Boof was also in the rotation struggling. How long did it take before they figured out Rincon was a lost cause and released him? Does anybody remember Bass? How many loses did Lamb contribute to?
Go back and take a look at the 1st half and 2nd half splits last year. It took quite a while to find a winning combination and that is what they are starting out the season with. There will probably be very little shuffling of players this year, they will be able to hit the ground running.
Even if they don’t make any improvements for the rest of the off season (and I don’t see that happening), they start off the season with a set rotation. Read that as Liriano instead of Livan, plus no Bass and Boof in the bullpen. Worst case scenario, they’ll have Buscher/Harris instead of Lamb. Cuddy’s back so there will be real depth and a guaranteed solid bat to pinch hit with. The starters should also be able to go deeper into games this year and that should help keep the bullpen from wearing out.
Chicago was their biggest headache in the division and they look like they’re rebuilding and trading just about anything that isn’t nailed down for prospects. That should add a few extra wins as well.
There is no way they finish with a record worse than they had last year. It would take a lot of major injuries to key players for this team to win anything less than 90. As is, this team is a contender in the central and easily the team to beat. Any moves for a 3rd baseman and/or bullpen help would just be icing on the cake.
Thats Icing on the cake? no way..icing on my cake lineup is:
Span RF
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Hardy SS
Morneau 1B
Pat the bat LF
Wiggy 3B
Young DH
Gomez CF
Cuddy, Punto, Buscher, Baker,couple prospects gone..
Now that’s a championship lineup my friends..still have a bench, still have 4 solid starters, still have top notch closer and serviceable and improved rest of bullpen..That’s icing!
Won’t happen..but could, if Twins wanted it to. Yes all parts would have to fit etc..but it would show an effort to me that we want to win a WS while M & M are in their prime (when do you think we will have a combo like that again..2056?). I’m resolved to Joe C’s lineup listed above as Twins reality..but don’t ask me to get excited about it when we had a chance to really increase our odds to win a WS or 2! Now..not so much.
I’m 110% for trading Young, if he’s just going to be a bench player. Cuddyer, despite all he’s done, should be done in MN. He’s a decent player, but nothing more than decent. Young isn’t great…yet. He Could be, but he’ll never be great as a bench player. That seems stupid to me. Don’t keep him and bench him. Keep him and play him. If you’re not going to play him, might as well get something for him. I’ll be sorely disapointed in the Twins if they keep him and don’t play him.
thus what i said above..cuddy gone..i agree with you totally..
1)CF Span (L)
2)C Mauer (L)
3)3B Wiggington (R)
4)1B Morneau (L)
5)LF P. Burrell (R)
6)DH D. Young (R), RF, Cuddy (R), Kubel, (L)
7)RF Carlos Gomez (R)
8)2B Casilla (S)
9)SS Punto (S)
Can you say … CHAMPIONSHIP!
not with that..missing Hardy..
I could say Division champs with that..but not WS..to beat the big boys you need that last piece at SS, not a guy who will hit .270, 1 hr, 31 RBI score 55 runs..just not gonna make it in this day and age.
Mark,
.to beat the big boys you need that last piece at SS, not a guy who will hit .270, 1 hr, 31 RBI score 55 runs.
With the exception of the 2003 Marlins, every team that won the WS in the 2000s had at least one weak link:
2008 Philies: Pedro Feliz .249/.302/.402
2007 Red Sox: Julio Lugo .237/.294/.349
2006 Cardinals: Yadier Molina .216/.274/.321 , Aaron Miles: .263/.324/.347
2005: White Sux: Juan Uribe .252/.301/.412
2004: Red Sox: Gabe Kapler .272/.311/.390
2003: Marlins Nope
2002: Angels: Bengie Molina .245/.274/.322
2001: Dbacks: Tony Womack .266/.307/.345
2000: Yankees: Brosius .230/.299/.374
I’d be happy if the Twins adopt the Marlins way (go for broke and win world series every 7 years then rebuild rather than trying to ‘compete’ every year), but a lot of fans would prefer the ‘compete’ every year approach. One single weak link (Punto) does not make a team not winning a world series…
Crede’s career numbers: .257/.306/.447 93 OPS+
Harris’ career numbers: .269/.330/.408 97 OPS+
no thank you
Thry
well said on Crede - yes he hits dingers but thats all he’s good for. solid glove at 3B but we already have higher average and just as good defense with Harris at a fraction of the price.
Wiggy will cost much less (thank goodness Boras isnt his client) and be more productive. he’s also versatile, and he doesnt have back problems (mainly crazy injuries last year)
I forget who said this, but who in their right mind would want Kubel as an everyday DH when you have a shot at Burrell whose got all the tools of a DH, can hit BOTH arms (not just righties like Kubel..except that one time) and hit in the 4 or 5 spot and walk 100 times and give Morneau better pitches to hit? I like Burrell more. Yes he is more expensive, but he will NOT go for 12-14 mill. all the reports show he will get significantly less; after guys Ibanez and Dunn and even Giambi, there won’t be as much money to go around. I say he won’t get more than 10 mill/year, which is something we can afford IF we trade Cuddy.
Really wish the Twins would have waited on Punto. Now they could have gone after Escobar since Atlanta signed Furcal (which I hope they still do, making Punto a utility player - probably not though with his contract)
thrylos,
look at the teams in your list…Red Sox, Yankees, Angels etc..I think they can afford one weak link…
Not us. this isnt a power packed lineup last time i checked. We need production from every spot possible.
Be that as it may, I couldn’t disagree with you more as far as competing each year..my line up including Hardy does just that!!!!
It would be a young team that could be together for a few yrs. How is getting rid of Cuddy, Punto, Buscher, Baker and a cpl minor league guys stopping Twins from being Division title competitive for next 5 yrs? Meanwhile being World Series competitve for 3-5 yrs.
I’d be fascinated to know.
Thanks.
Matt,
Since when did Furcal sign with anyone?
Rosenthal reported it just this morning… he signed with the Braves.
Never mind Matt..I see now that Braves are indeed on verge of signing him..
In either case your point about Punto is correct..
Either Escobar or Hardy should have been pursued much harder before deciding Punto will be starting at SS.
thanks Matt and Jim..
Nobody is going to trade for Cuddyer at this point unless the Twins eat most of his salary and that would mean you don’t have the payroll room for Burrell.
Escobar is still a possible trade target if the Twins are willing to move Punto over and let him compete with Harris and Buscher for the 3B job. Escobar may hit a dozen HR or so, but he really doesn’t add the power threat that Wigginton would at 3B.
Plus, to get Escobar, you’re still looking at giving up pitching to Atlanta, which is not necessary for a FA like Wigginton.
Escobar is still a possibility, but I don’t see Burrell as even remotely likely.
Maybe this is already somewhere in the 275 posts, but I think Joe made an obvious error on his roster. If the Twins have 4-5 outfielders, Pridie will never make the 25 man roster. Twins will carry 12 pitchers before carrying Pridie.
Has been talked about much yet, but the Twins could still use a long-ball right-handed DH. Probably someone who could also fill-in a couple games at 3B, 1B, or ???
The Braves make no sense - why sign Furcal when you’ve got a guy like Escobar?
Jim
Burrell isnt remotely likely because its the Twins, not because it isnt possible.
And I beg to differ on Cuddy - some teams would take him and see his numbers from 06 (heck, even 07) and give up a mid-level prospect for him. Teams like the Royals even could use his offense and leadership. And they wouldnt mind paying 7 mill for a guy like that (considering they were shooting for Furcal when they ALSO have a stud SS…)
It was all a dream Jim..I understand the supposed payroll issue..but all I’m saying is..we have a new ball park coming, we have M&M & Nathan for a few yrs..Ownership that wants to win the World Series could make this happen as I described..if the Twins won say..the WS twice in next 5 yrs..don’t you believe that the amount of Cuddy’s salary that would have to be covered by the Twins would be taken care of?
Winning and new ball park = plenty of dough to go around. And as I said..it wouldn’t be like taking a chance for one year only…the window would be open for several yrs..So I still don’t see the issue. Thx
Medschoolmatt…exactly right about Cuddy…and who cares anyway if we have to pay a bit of his salary..it’s part of trying to win a World Series..No one is going broke here..let’s all understand that!
Here is my take on these FA signings and comparing FO’s
Other teams do things that do not make sense ie going after guys when you’ve already got a good player at that position (ie Furcal to the Braves). The also just throw money at players (ie Yanks at Sabbathia - he is NOT better than Santana) when they could have taken that money and signed two VERY GOOD pitchers (say, Sheets and Lowe) instead of 1 stud thats a head case. Then they’d have Sheets, Lowe, AND Burnett for just a bit more than Sabbathia and Burneet combined.
Now the Twins are different - they are (usually) smart with their personell moves and look at holes and try to fill them. However, they underpay and they go low (although last year was a fluke with Lamb - he was one of the better 3B options). Now, we get a guy like Blake that is available and was affordable, but they wouldnt give the 3rd year (ok, I’ll give them that) but we ended up only losing out on a couple mill in the long run (not cool).
NOW we get a guy like Wiggy that is available. If they don’t sign him, even if he is a bit more than they’d like to pay, then I have serious issues with this FO. We don’t have to give up our ‘precious talent’ (cue the evil looking thing from lord of the rings) but just money for him (Pohl has plenty of it). And we’ve needed a right-handed power bat for ages. Burrell fits that, yet its likely we won’t sign him cuz we are too cheap.
Something’s gotta give, and the next couple months will show what does
So where’s all the depth in the outfield that would allow the Twins to trade Young? Cuddyer goes down (as he does every year) and who’s gonna fill in — Kubel? Jason Pridie? Personally I think Young ought to be the regular left fielder and be allowed to continue to develop because he’s potentially a 5-tool player and there aren’t very many of those. Regardless, there is no outfield depth if Young goes away, and no outfield help in the minors either.
So Boston will have an A-Rod of their own apparenlty…
“According to Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald, the Red Sox made an offer to Mark Teixeira. Silverman believes it to be for eight years. Tex is believed to be seeking more than $21MM per year, closer to Alex Rodriguez’s $27.5MM per year.”
And yet:
“The Angels are reportedly at eight years and at least $160MM, the Orioles around seven years, $140-150MM, and the Nationals at eight years, $160MM.”
And apparently the Angels are also looking at Rameriez if they don’t manage to keep Tex.
That’s right, the Angels would be buying their third OF in three years.
And I will fight to the death to keep Young here (and since it won’t ever come ot death I can say that ;)). I feel that letting him go now would be like giving up on either Mauer or Morneau early in their careers.
My take on the Angels
Your best OF (also your best hitter) is making less than Hunter and now would make significantly less than Tex if he is resigned. Where is the Justice?
T,
And Thrylos thinks we’re ok without Hardy. Yankee’s, Red Sox, Angels are all going to be killers this year..we better get prepared.
Matt, couldn’t agree with you more on Wiggy/Burrell..I just add Hardy to the list..
Butter, I wasn’t talking about trading D. Young…I said move Cuddy..in my plan we still have Young, Gomez, Span, Kubel, Pridie in OF..more than enough,.
Also to Tex
You are great but you are not A-Rod. You can hit the stuffing out of the ball, but I’d rather have Mauer’s 2 batting titles in 3 years and Morneausy backing him up. Best of luck to you.
Matt, T,
Did you look above at my proposed 09 lineup? What are your thoughts?
Is there any reason it can’t be done..other than just saying the FO won’t do it? A real reason why Twins couldn’t do it? I think it’s more that they just won’t do it..it can be done.
I’m a huge Twins fan..and think we generally have a terrific Orginazation.
But to me, this was the year to make things really great..all the pieces are available. And again..it wouldn’t be just going for it for One year..We’d be solid for 3-5..
sorry..meant Organization..ms spl
“It can be done”
There is no way to know if the trade for Hardy can be done.
If the Brewers say it CAN’T be done, then my guess is, that it can’t be done.
I haven’t heard it can’t from Brewers yet. And you know how this goes..they never say in public what they really mean..all I ask is that we try. Hard..
If the don’t fine..but make them an offer they can’t refuse. they need so much pitching right now it’s not even funny.
Mark -
Even if you COULD get Hardy, then you have increased the payroll by at least $15 million, made the team worse defensively, and created a big hole in your rotation.
Early in these posts there were more references to Delmon Young being a cancer on this team. Could someone please provide some proof of this? Is it because the Twins finished second? I think you could point more towards a tired bullpen and Morneau’s two-week slump than to Delmon Young. Is it because he is not as gregarious as Punto or even Gomez? Seems he had better stats than either of them. Is it because he had baggage in Tampa Bay? Show me where he opened that baggage in Minnesota. Really. When did this guy take down the morale of the Minnesota Twins in 2008? What public evidence…or even private evidence is there that he ruined the chemistry of the team? Please enlighten me.
As for the holes the Twins have, I keep reading the calls for Cuddyer to shift back to third base. I actually think a better idea would be to teach Gomez to play shortstop. He is quick and athletic and already produces better offensive numbers for that position than we have seen in two years. Put Span in center and let Young/Cuddyer/Kubel sort out the other two outfield positions and DH. Just brainstorming here.
“Even if you COULD get Hardy, then you have increased the payroll by at least $15 million, made the team worse defensively, and created a big hole in your rotation.”
Not sure if I missed something, but Hardy would keep the defense the same, if not improve the team defensively.
2008 Plus/Minus SS Leaders:
Jimmy Rollins: +23
Yunel Escobar: +21
JJ Hardy: +19
I’ve heard no indication lately that the Brewers are the least bit interested in trading Hardy. There’s certainly no pressure for them to do so and that means they negotiate from the power position (say goodbye to Baker, Twins fans).
I just think people here tend to push moves that aren’t even remotely close to possible. I’m on board with Wigginton and if he gets obscene money/years from someone else, I’d be fine with taking a one year flyer on Crede.
I just don’t see it being even worth discussing OF/DH types like Burrell when the Twins already have 5 guys for those 4 positions. If anyone thinks they’re going to trade someone making between league minimum and a couple million a year in order to take on someone they’ll have to pay $10 million for, you’re just kidding yourself. It’s fine to have some fun talking about how nice it would be to have that kind of line-up, but don’t talk about it like it’s something the Twins would ever do.
Unfortunately, the Twins are getting ready to move to their new ballpark during a very tough economic period. If this recession stretches in to 2010, much of the increased revenues may be tough to realize immediately. The Yankees will never have trouble selling advertising and luxury boxes, but mid-market teams are going to struggle for a year or two. Anyone who thinks that won’t adversely effect money available for payroll for teams like the Twins isn’t being realistic.
And Thrylos thinks we’re ok without Hardy
if they get a power RH bat at 3B and a better starting pitcher than Perkins, start Young instead of Cuddaver, have Buscher at AAA, give Tolleson and Hughes a chance to win the second utility spot over Tolbert, I think the Twins will be ok without Hardy.
Hardy and I found Enrique Cruz and Enrique from King of the Hill and took them out to Thunder Island.
rpar: you do understand this is a blog where proof means only that you can write and send it, makes it true? use whatever stat you need to attempt to prove your point and ignore the stats that don’t. young may be the worst person in the world if you believe everything that has been said on these twins blogs!
matt -
I wasn’t very clear, sorry. I meant overall. Hardy isn’t a bad defensive shortstop at all. But Wigginton is a drop off from Harris at 3B, and as bad as Young was in LF last year, I’m pretty sure Burrell would be worse.
I just don’t get the Gomez in AAA talk. I really don’t. How many games did he save with unbelievable catches, especially in late innings last year?
Let’s see…He’s already one of the fastest players in MLB and threat to steal bases and score from anywhere…Adds energy to this team game after game….A leader in in-field hits. Already a pretty good bunter for his age which will only get better. Had just about as many HRs as Mr. Upside Delmon Young in what was essentially his rookie season.
And do people forget he was one of the best hitters we had down the stretch last year? He showed improvement when he moved down the order.
Sure he needs to better plate discipline. But that better served in the majors, not AAA. He’s done more to earn a starting spot than Mr. Upside Young has, that’s for sure.
“7:50am: According to Ken Rosenthal, shortstop Rafael Furcal has reached an agreement with the Braves. He came up with Atlanta, of course. Furcal just needs to pass a physical. Rosenthal believes the Braves offered three years with a fourth-year vesting option, and Furcal chose that over Oakland’s guaranteed four years.
Now we’re left to wonder what happens with Yunel Escobar and Kelly Johnson”
Yes hmmmmm what happens to Escobar
Pete D
Thx for your response..Harris isn’t going to be our everyday 3B…Wiggy not terrible..just ok which is what I see the Defensive combo of Bushy/Harris..just ok. at best.
Also, I’m not sure what Hardy’s current salary deal is..you? But payroll doesn’t bother me..that’s what I meant when I said..is it because Twins Won’t do it..not that they can’t. No matter the economy..Twins ownership is fine..trust me! As I said..winning and new ball park = money..as if they need more. And I’ll believe it when I see it in April 2010 that they couldn’t sell out the New Luxury Boxes…they’ll be long gone by start of the 2010 season. As far as big hole in rotation..yes Baker would be gone..I said that. And with my proposed lineup, I’m fine with that..Give me that lineup minus Baker..Twins Win! Keep Baker..make no other changes this year.Twins compete..that’s all I’m saying. I enjoy the discussion.
As far as Jimmy C. not hearing from the Brewers lately..I wouldn’t expect Jim to be at the top of their speed dial system. Sometimes these things have a way of happening..without being made public. Thx again all.
Forget Wiggy lets get Yunel Escobar
Jkucenic,
Right on baby…about Go Go..the one thing you failed to mention was that he DID improve in the 2nd half at the plate. Which tells me he’s on board to continue to work to improve more each year. Like you, I’d rather see the improvement with the Big Club. And that’s just where he will be in 09 and beyond.
Asking the Twins to “try” and get Hardy is like asking somebody to “try” and get Morneau from the Twins.
Their best attempt would be getting the words “We’re interested in Mor-” out before Smith hung up.
And I agree with thrylos. The Twins need a power bat. If it’s SS or 3B, they can live with the “current” option at the other. I’d rather it be a power SS (because Harris/Buscher is a better power threat than Punto/Casilla/Tolbert/whoever plays SS), but that’s far more rare/expensive than a 3B.
Not to mention having Wiggy at 3B would mean that Tolbert is probably the odd man out with Harris becoming the Bench utility guy. I think Harris offensively is an upgrade over Tolbert…so that strengthens the bench as well.
Redmond
Young/Cuddyer
Harris
Buscher
…That’s not a bad bench.
jb: There’s reports that Furcal would move to 2B for Atlanta.
My guess is Atlanta signs Furcal as a precurser to trading for Peavy.
Just a guess.
T to bad he would be a great acquisition for the Twins. He would fit the Twins to a “T”. LOL.
Mark: You can’t fault the FO for not turning a deal where there isn’t one to turn. Sane brings up a great point: The only way to get a player from a team that doesn’t want to deal him is to give them more than he’s worth.
It reminds me of last year when people thought the Twins would somehow get Wright or Reyes from the Mets for Santana, when the Twins were dealing from the weak position. (Santana had to be dealt then or he’d walk at the end of the year)
Has there been any “blockbuster” trades yet?
There’s been a number of trades involving several players (Chicago had that 12 player swing with somebody earlier)…but has there been any big names moved yet?
If Peavy finally got dealt, that would probably jumpstart the trade market.
Does anyone think we would have been in the strong position and received more from say the red Sox had we waited till they were almost in the playoffs. The Twins could have possibly gotten Ellsbury and Lester
Mark -
While payroll doesn’t matter to you, it matters to the Twins. Spending money this year may make it harder to spend in following seasons. There are a lot of long term effects that a lot of posters seem to forget about.
As for Hardy’s contract status, he made $2.65 million in a one year, arbitration avoiding deal last season. He’s been in the big leagues since 2005. I’m not a baseball contract expert, but he’s probably going to get a significant raise this year, with his arbitration years running out soon.
T-
I understand what you’re saying..I do.
But they dont want Morneau, they got Prince. They need PITCHING..we have PITCHING..Again I’d be stunned if a deal couldn’t be worked out for Baker, Punto (if teams love him as much as people say and he could fill in at SS til their young guy is ready)and whatever else they need that we feel we can give. If they refuse, so be it.
Hardy not Free Agent avail. for 2 more yrs and I read on Brewers website that he has been worrried all winter about getting traded..so even he knows it’s possible. Just put together a proposal and present it..can it hurt??
signing punto all but put the screws to the twins ever signing y escobar, but smith cannot deter from the most important thing and that is to fill the 3rd base hole with mr ty…..i too would love to have a guy like yunel, but where does he fit with our team with the load of middle infielders we have, punto, harris, tolbert, casilla…by the way, am i the only one around here that has always thought that when tolbert recovered as he has now that he is starting material…this kid has shown at least to me that he deserves a shot to start. i hate to see him tagged already as some kind of supersub and make that his career– i just thought he showed more than that, at least i my opinion as humble as that is…..
I guess you could call the multi-player, multi-team, Mets-Mariners-Indians deal that put JJ Putz in New York a ‘blockbuster.’
Pete D.
I Understand about spending..harder to spend in next years though..when the money will be pouring in more than it ever has in the history of the franchise?..and what if they won the WS in 09? I know money is an issue to an extent..but it seems to me, if it ever is possible to spend a little more than we’re used to..now would be that time.
If it’s all about making money and staying within a tight budget then fine..just go with Bushy/Harris at 3B and make no other changes. I’m ok with that at the end of the day. But don’t pretend to me that you are interested in winning, except to have just enough talent so that you might luck into something one year. If that’s everyones thing then fine..it’s always been that way and I’ve been accepting of it for 50 yrs now. I just thought that maybe for one 5 yr period, things could be different.
Apparently Kelly Johnson is moving to the outfield and Furcal is going to play 2B
Mark,
You have some good ideas.
Making proposals for trades can’t hurt.
But when you said “it can be done”, to me that seemed that you were implying that unilateral action by the Twins FO could pull it off.
That is my only disagreement.
Either the Brewers want to make the Twins-proposed trade (more than any other proposal made by any other team) OR the Twins will be asked to overcompensate to make the deal.
It may be possible, but it’s probably not painless, and it certainly requires that the Brewers get what they want, also.
T
agree with everything except i want buscher at AAA until he can learn to field and hit lefties. he’s a singles hitter with occasional power and won’t repeat his freakish average with RISP. Tolbert stays up here for his solid speed, defense and singles bat (he’s a switch hitter too).
Looks like Johnson is going to the OF and Furcal to 2B for the Braves (though I think it does provide them with flexibility should the Padres decide to be more reasonable about what they’ll trade Peavy for). In any event, the Twins aren’t likely to get Escobar, it appears.
That brings the focus back to Wigginton. I think he’d be a significant improvement for the Twins and would demonstrate to the fans that the FO is good for their word that they’re trying to improve the team. I’m on record already as saying the FO needs to make this aquisition unless someone out there is going to pay him an obscene amount of money.
I would caution everyone, however, not to expect him to be a perenial all-star. He appears to be a good, serviceable, righty-hitting 3B with more pop than any current internal options, nothing more.
The Twins could easily sign everyone’s wish list of Free agents IF Pohlad wasn’t so cheap and continued to pocket the $150-200 million per year from his regional broadcasting package. I mean, that’s how the Yankees and Red Sox finance their high payroll.
Regards,
dragon
yankees have their own effing channel, get huge tv contracts from national outlets because of east coast bias, charge obscene amounts of money for tickets that are regularly sold out…
yeah they can do that. even with his crazy ways steinbrenner is doing just fine with his cash money.
as for boston - chalk it up to more east coast stuff
“Does anyone think we would have been in the strong position and received more from say the red Sox had we waited till they were almost in the playoffs. The Twins could have possibly gotten Ellsbury and Lester”
There is no way this would happen. The Twins would have kept Santana for their own playoff run. Also, Lester was their most consisten pitcher down the stretch, so I do not think they would have traded both. Gomez will have a better career than Ellsbury anyways - Ellsbury (25 yrs old) started out in A- ball when he was 22, Gomez (just turned 23) started for the Twins at 22.
Ellsbury (25 yrs old) started out in A- ball when he was 22, Gomez (just turned 23) started for the Twins at 22.
It may be harder to break into the Sox starting line up. After we traded Torii it was much easier to start for the Twins line up
Fu-Te Ni
by Jon Shields ~ December 15th, 2008
There have been some rumors that 26 year old Taiwanese LHSP Fu-Te Ni is looking to make the jump to American baseball after his CPBL team, the Chinabank Whales, disbanded.
The Mariners have apparently shown interest, and have offered him a minor league contract with an invitation to Spring Training and a guarantee that he’d start no lower than in AA. The contract reportedly had a base salary of $50K, with a $150K signing bonus. Word is that he turned down the offer in hopes of obtaining a guaranteed major league contract.
However, he has said as recently as yesterday that he is still contemplating Seattle’s offer, or is at least still in talks with the team.
Ni led the CPBL in strikeouts this past season, and I’m told via email that “he is generally regarded as one of the best pitchers in the the CPBL.” I’ve read on some sites that he is indeed the best, for what that’s worth.
He is also being pursued by the Twins, Cubs, Tigers, Braves and Japanese teams.
Santana said he would invoke his No-Trade-Clause if he was not traded before Opening Day.
He MAY have changed his mind at the trading deadline, but the Twins couldn’t risk ending up with only a couple of draft picks.
sane during the Santana trade we didn’t want a repeat of what happened with Torii Hunter. Red lights went on and we started into panic mode
Hindsight is 20/20, but if they had waited until mid-season to try to trade Santana, the Yankees’ hand would have been considerably weaker since the players whose names came up most (Hughes, Kennedy, Cabrera) all sucked in 2008. This would have decreased the Red Sox interest at least somewhat and it is my understanding that the Sox FO wasn’t in complete agreement that they even wanted Santana (at his price) in the first place.
“Red lights went on and we started into panic mode”
By ‘we’, I hope you mean poster on these boards and not the front office.
has there been any big names moved yet?
Isn’t Holliday big enough?
Seriously…looking at these projections…we have 3 leadoff hitters batting 9, 1, and 2 and a #9 hitter batting 8th…I’m now looking forward to the 2010 season more or less because at least there’s a new stadium to distact me from an otherwise punchless offense. Man, I’m an eternal optimist, but honestly, without a true #5 hitter (Cuddy should be your 6 or 7 guy), there’s nothing really here to excite you other than the potential for bunting and base stealing… ugh!!!
…ooops, I meant TWO #9 hitters batting 7th and 8th…my bad!
Can’t wait for the Twins to start spending money now that they can start looking forward to all of this additional revenue from the new stadium, mostly funded by taxpaying Twins fans….
Can’t wait for the Twins to start spending money now that they can start looking forward to all of this additional revenue from the new stadium, mostly funded by taxpaying Twins fans….
Cheap Pohlad and son will probably dump payroll thinking if he puts it under his (CP’s) matress it will get him closer to heaven
Crede is a much better player than Wigginton is. You could get him for a 2 year deal with a team option for the 3rd. How many all-star teams has Wigginton played on? How many teams has he bounced around to? He is a journeyman who has power, but can’t defend well. Crede is so far superior with his glove it isn’t even funny. I know his back is a mess, but he would only have to play on the turf one year. It is better than Wigginton or trading one of our starting 5 for Atkins or Beltre. We have the money to sign so don’t trade away talented young players.
