And now, for some offseason entertainment…
Posted on December 17th, 2008 – 5:15 PMBy Joe Christensen
Twins manager Ron Gardenhire will be a special guest tonight on FSN’s broadcast of the Wild vs. the Flames.
Gardenhire will be on the pregame show, which starts at 6:30 p.m., and he’ll be part of the first-intermission “Faceoff,” debating baseball and hockey-related topics.
The topper will come on the postgame show, as Darby Hendrickson and Kevin Gorg try to teach Gardenhire the finer points of the game in an on-ice demonstration.
Gardy, an Oklahoma native, has never skated in his life.
50 Responses to "And now, for some offseason entertainment…"
Awesome, another chance for Gardenhire to say something stupid in public.
Tonight he’ll say something like…
“Nicky Punto took a hometown discount. We should’ve paid him more,”
or
“Ty Wigginton is a fat slob and has no place on my team. And don’t even get me started on that overpaid, undertalented DOG, Adrian Beltre.”
Set your TIVO folks. 
The media should be held accountable for sucking.
JoeC,
“And now, for some offseason entertainment…”
Why is the word “entertainment” not in quotes?
OH!
You were serious!
Why must so many bloggers be such pompous, self-centered morons??
OH!
I’m serious!
Thanks, Joe, for the heads-up about Gardy on the Woild game! I, for one, am pleased the Twins have one of baseball’s best as manager. HE is in the majors…I think I’ll be slow to question him.
msb,
Thanks for the kind words.
I was just kidding Gardy in the same vein as JoeC.
I am sure that neither JoeC nor Gardy consider Gardy skating for the first time to be serious “entertainment”.
I like Gardy and JoeC, and Gardy is a good sport to allow his skating debut to be televised.
If everyone loved a certain chef, would you hesitate to criticize him if you personally didn’t like his food?
What about a famous author? If he was a NY Times Best Seller and you thought he was junk, would you criticize him?
It makes no sense that anyone who criticizes Gardenhire is “an idiot” or “not a real Twins fan.”
You’re perfectly free to praise him, just like those of us who dislike him are perfectly free to criticize him.
Gardenhire is stubborn and plays his favorite players while more talented players sit on the bench. He’s a terrible interview, and his comments about Delmon Young were just downright idiotic to say with a microphone in his face, whether he was genuine or not.
I don’t place a lot of emphasis on a manager winning games for a team. I believe it’s the team’s responsibility to perform, and ultimately think it’s stupid when a manager gets praise or gets fired for how his team performs.
However, I find it funny that among those who do praise Gardy for getting the Twins to the playoffs every year, almost none of them acknowledge his horrific playoff results or complete incompetence on the East Coast against Boston and New York.
Personally, I think we’re just always up against better teams, or we choke in big spots. But, if you’re going to praise Gardy for his winning ways, you should acknowledge the other side of the coin.
Actually, this is exactly the kind of thing that should appear in a blog, not in the newspaper (though I bet it makes the tv news, as if it were newsworthy). I encourage the STrib to put this kind of news in a blog. There’s nothing wrong with entertainment announcements being in a blog.
“I don’t place a lot of emphasis on a manager winning games for a team. I believe it’s the team’s responsibility to perform, and ultimately think it’s stupid when a manager gets praise or gets fired for how his team performs.”
If Gardy’s role is so inconsequential, how do you explain the Twins’ ability to perform above expectations during his tenure? Gardy’s small market team always excels.
He’s also got two perennial MVPs and had a Cy Young candidate playing for him.
He has a hard time filling out a lineup card (why does Redmond bat in Mauers spot when spot), he’s infatuated with a platoon player (Punto).
He is good at uniting the clubhouse, and has been able to win in the regular season.
He’s closer to an average manager than the top of the heap.
Too many of us have the Minnesota “Lowered Expectations”.
“If Gardy’s role is so inconsequential, how do you explain the Twins’ ability to perform above expectations during his tenure?”
1. Because people always set the Twins’ expectations too low.
2. He always has a good core of star talent (Morneau, Mauer, Santana, Hunter, etc.) surrounded by sine pretty good young players.
3. Awesome development of the aforementioned young players
I don’t think it has anything to do with Gardy really.
If you consider him such a great manager, how do you explain his inability to win in the postseason or against the powerhouses in the AL East and West?
I’m not trying to sound like a jerk, I’m just curious. Everyone is always so quick to praise him for his supposed talent, while completely disregarding any possible flaws. I find it hypocritical (not saying you are; I’m assuming you have your reasons for defending him).
That makes me happy. Hoo-ray.
Steve,
Do you think Gardy plays no part in the “awesome development of the aforementioned players”?
How the players are developed and what they are taught is decided upon and implemented by the Field Staff, headed by Gardy and his major league staff.
The development is NOT done independently by the minor league coaches.
Of course, there is room for each coach to vary within the guidelines, and many of the guidelines may pre-date Gardy.
However, it is Gardy’s choice whether to revise (or let stand) the basics of what is taught and how it is taught.
Trade Fridley!
I don’t think it has MUCH to do with Gardy would’ve been a more accurate statement, I’ll admit.
However, I also find it irritating that people give him sole credit for how well the team plays year after year. I really don’t feel that he plays a tremendous role in our success.
I think most managers in the Majors could’ve taken a team with the Twins’ talent pretty far last year.
I don’t feel like the reason the Twins are constantly surprising their nay-sayers is because of Gardenhire’s excellent managerial skills.
Then again, I also don’t think managers in general are that important until you’re into a 5- or 7-game playoff series, so I’m not really one to talk on whether or not Gardy leads to success for this team.
My original point was just that if Twins fans are going to openly praise Gardenhire for Minnesota’s success in exceeding expectations, they should be more willing to see the other side of the fence - the one where I have nightmares about us flying to New York and Boston.
If you really believe a manager has that much impact on the game, then how is a guy who hasn’t won in the playoffs (small sample, I know), and doesn’t win against LA, Boston, NY, etc. “one of the best in the game?”
If Ron Gardenhire managed in a different market, I think he very likely could have been fired by now.
“how do you explain his inability to win in the postseason or against the powerhouses in the AL East and West?”
Gardy’s Twins are, what, 1-3 in division series and 0-1 in ALCS? Less than spectacular, but it is a pretty small sample size. If the 09 Twins win the World Series, he is suddenly a .500 manager in the postseason. There are tons of examples of managers/coaches who never seemed to be able to win the big one, but when they finally did, they are hall of famers. Let’s hope Gardy winds up in that category.
Topp Dogg,
I’d prefer a Mariners or Nationals blog, if possible.
I’ll let you do the negotiations.
Steve,
He is judged by his team’s ability to “play the game right” in the view of baseball purists.
That’s where all the “little things” and “fundamentals” and “hustle” is attributed to the manager although it is executed by the players.
I think it has more to do with what is taught to and demanded from the Twins players by the Twins organization.
Its definitely NOT all Gardy, but he does demand that “the Twins’ way be followed, and exiles players who won’t comply.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
I acknowledged his small postseason sample Mahalo. I’m more concerned with him in the regular season…
Dating back, by season, since 2003 (on the road only):
New York: 0-3 (’08), 1-4 (’07), 1-2 (’06), 1-2(’05), 0-3(’04), 0-3(’03), 0-3(’02)
Boston: 0-3, 2-2, 2-1, 0-3, 2-1, 2-1, 1-2
Los Angeles: 2-2, 1-5, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2, 2-4, 2-1
So against in total:
At New York: 3-20
At Boston: 9-13
At LA: 10-19
Those are pretty much perennial playoff teams that Gardenhire hasn’t won against in the regular season or in the postseason.
Again, I don’t personally even think it matters, but why is it so unfathomable to think that Twins’ fans would have the right to criticize Gardy, and why does no one acknowledge those flaws praising Gardy’s success?
I just find it curious I suppose. If you like him, you’re certainly entitled. I just don’t see how it works to praise one side without criticizing the other.
I don’t think all of his players do play the game right though, Sane.
I’d go so far as to say that his prized possession, Nick Punto, doesn’t play the game right.
Sliding into first base headfirst isn’t fundamental. Nick puts the ball in the air too much for a player of his mold, and really isn’t as good of a bunter as he should be either.
Same with Gomez and his constant 2 strike bunting.
Granted, Punto and Gomez came up through a different systems, but still…
I give credit to the Twins’ system (and Gardenhire is a part of this) for their meticulous stress to young pitchers in throwing strikes. We walk fewer batters than any team in baseball, and that’s where we win.
However, I don’t think they do a great job of developing offensive talent. Maybe it’s the players we draft, but it seems like the team is always one bat away (last season’s RISP anomaly was a nice change), and the FO’s philosophy never calls for signing the bat through free agency, so we continue to come up short.
Gardenhire’s players may typically have good fundamentals, but it’d be nice to see more guys break the mold and be able to produce, rather than be exiled upon trying to do so (David Ortiz, anyone?)
Steve,
I agree.
This year, in particular, there were MANY cases of the Twins not playing the game right.
It could be due to the large number of NEW Twins.
Young, Gomez, Lamb, Buscher, Harris, Everett, Span, Monroe and most of the starting pitchers were new.
As a coach, I know that there is sometimes a gap between what is taught and what is learned, especially if teaching time is limited.
And I also agree, if the “wrong way” is working for a player(David Ortiz), then sometimes the system should be stretched to fit the player.
Steve from Fridley
I agree. Punto doesn’t play the game right, and neither does Joe Mauer… a number 3 hitter has to hit for more power. If you aren’t man enough to drive in runs, and sometimes that means driving yourself in as well (HOME RUNS) you shouldn’t be in an RBI spot in the lineup!
Boof Bonser sure hasn’t pitched like a pitcher is supposed to, lol.
Rincon never pitched like a pitcher was supposed to… at least not without juice…
Young and Gomez not knowing how to take a pitch… not the right way to play the game!
Cuddyer, Punto, and to a lesser extent Delmon Young’s base running probably not textbook examples either…
Gomez could probably be bashed for that too, but he’s so fast he can get away with it to a certain extent.
While I’ll agree that Mauer doesn’t hit like a #3 hitter should, I don’t think it’s his fault necessarily. He doesn’t control where he hits in the lineup.
Mauer should be hitting second, and I know it’s a moot point because the Twins want him third, but with his discipline and mentality to work the count, that’s where he’d be most effective.
In the number two spot, getting on base, and letting guys behind him see pitches from the on-deck circle.
I agree that it’s maddening to watch Mauer take so many 3-1 pitches with runners on base, and it would be nice to see him adjust to try to drive the ball more, but it seems to me that when he does that, he’s not as good of a hitter.
Mauer clearly needs to move up one spot in the order, but we don’t have the right-handed power bat we need between the two of them.
I’d like to see Delmon Young hit there, personally.
With two high-OBP guys ahead of him and an established hitter behind him, he’d likely get a steadier dose of fastballs and it would allow him to build a reputation as a hitter. He’s certainly got enough raw power to hit there effectively, though his ground ball rate would be frustrating in that spot. Then again, so is Mauer’s.
Still, even if the Twins hang onto him, he’ll bat sixth or lower, for the sheer virtue that Gardenhire simply doesn’t like him, despite his backpedaling comments to the media in Vegas…
Steve…
agreed.
Part of being a good manager isn’t just winning it’s putting your players in the best position to succeed, and I think trying Delmon Young in the 3 hole might force him to mature. I think he’d handle it better than Cuddaver did.
Finally if they went and got a guy like Joe Crede, I wouldn’t be adverse to moving Morneau to the 3rd spot in the lineup and having Crede bat 4th.
BC,
I don’t understand why Gardenhire wouldn’t at least try it on days when Mauer is out of the lineup.
If you don’t want to take Mauer out of his comfort zone, that’s fine. But on days when he sits on the bench, why on Earth does Redmond bat third?
These are just little things that make me say Gardenhire is overrated. He’s just stubborn, gets set in his ways, and won’t change them.
If he thinks Young is as talented as he claims to, then why not give him a try on days when Joe sits? It’s not like you’d have to move a great hitter down the lineup with Redmond or anything.
It’s senseless.
As for Crede, I’m thinking he’s going to be the Twins’ option more and more. Makes sense; he can be had on a semi-cheap one-year deal, and that’s all the Twins ever seem to look for in free agency.
Who can we pay the least amount of money for the least years? Forget talent or durability… Sigh. Think there’s any chance he stays healthy?
Sure, there’s a chance Crede would stay healthy. I just don’t think you should be betting your season on it, but I agree it’s not unlikely that the Twins will make a half-hearted pitch for him. Whether they sign him or not will depend on whether he has any other legit options.
I just have come to the conclusion that the FO really doesn’t care much about making a true championship run in the Dome’s last season. Despite my regular defenses of the organization around here for the past couple of years, I really have nothing good to say about them at this point.
And since, I was taught, “if you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all,” I probably won’t be making too many comments for a while.
Jim,
I am in agreement with you on your last post. I too support this FO, but they are making it clear they are not willing to make much of a move for 2009. Hopefully 2010 is going to be different.
Here is a question for y’all:
if you have two choices for the team you are fans of (let’s assume the Twins):
a. ‘play the game right’ (subjective description of what is right)
and
b. win
what would you choose?
especially if a. has proven not to cause b.
In a different note, I wish I could see Gardy on skates and wearing a tutu and dancing to Disney’s animal kingdom or something while Punto was doing pirouettes next to him. It would be very fitting…
Ha did you guys catch Gardy busting on LaPanta for “having his hair glued to his head so it doesn’t fly around” obviously talking about LaPanta’s terrible toupee. Bust out laughing I TIVOed the game and it was PRICELESS…
Thrylos,
A of course!
As long as we get to the playoffs and lose in the first round, I’m great with it! Isn’t that every fan’s dream?!
Though sadly I bet there’s people in Baltimore, Kansas City, and Pittsburgh who would murder for that right now.
I suppose it’s always good to remember that upper-tier mediocrity is better than first-class futility.
“Despite my regular defenses of the organization around here for the past couple of years, I really have nothing good to say about them at this point.”
Yeah JimCrikket, that’s how I’m feeling these days too.
It was Puck&Herbie’s park. They should leave it with a bang.
You have to admit, it seems to me, that this kind of thing (Blake, Wigginton) DOES get frustrating after a while. Other teams trade. Other teams improve, or genuinly try to, and we do nothing.. To use a loose metaphor, it’s like we’re the allies before WWII, watching Germany rise to power, and we just look on and take no action.
Some early morning thoughts….
Interesting take on Young being a #3 hitter. What this team really needs is a big bat to protect Morney in the lineup. Whether or not that can be be solved with 3B or not looks unlikely. I am not 100% against the platoon–but that extra pop in the lineup would do wonders.
what would you choose?
“especially if a. has proven not to cause b.”
Good luck trying to prove that there is no coorelation, because almost certainly (a) contributes heavily to (b).
However if your conditions could be proven true, EVERYONE would (and should) choose winning.
Thrylos brings up a very good question at 11:21. I would much rather have my team “play the game right” than to win at all costs. I am including dirty plays, cheap shots, and illegal Performance Enhancing Drugs.
All I want for Christmas is for FSN to once and for all put an end to these silly on-field (or on-court, on-ice) “demonstrations”.
Steve From Fridley, I think you’ve been to kind to Gardy. I’ve questioned his managerial skills now for many years. Blah blah yes he’s good with the clubhouse blah blah. But ever since, I believe it was 2006, when Cuddyer came out of spring training batting nearly .500, Gardy named Lew Ford his starting right fielder. Granted Cuddyer was hurt a few weeks in spring training, Cuddyer played the last spring training game and had a couple hits. But Gardy had Leeeew Ford start out of pre-season and he played the first month. I remember keeping a stat to myself I still remember, and when Lew Ford started the Twins they were 5 - 13. When Cuddyer or Kubel started in RF, the Twins were 8 - 5. Nerd I still remember that, I know. Lew Ford then got hurt, so Gardy had no choice but to start Cuddyer in RF, where he proceeded to have a fantastic year. And then as you remember the Twins went on to end the season in fantastic fashion. But Gardy chose someone less talent and lower ceiling to start, presumably because he hustles more or something. No idea. Anyways, now take the Punto situation, his inablility to win big games against tougher competition, his bonehead comments (yes, I am from Fargo, but sorry am not a farmer), and I believe he is a “by the book” manager. Lefty/Righty crap. Closer ONLY pitches in closing situations. Whatever, it’s all just my opinion. Rip me if you want and throw wins/losses in my face now if you would like.
AJ Pesh,
Your opinions and recollections are pretty accurate.
Then we have Gardy’s W-L record.
That leaves us with two stacks of evidence which lead to contradictory conclusions.
I don’t know where that leaves us.
sane what do you know about kelly johnson, mlb rumar says they are shopping him for an of?
Sane,
Yes Gardy’s W-L record is good. Good is fine. But it can be great. I guess I’m greedy and want great. With the amount of top tier talent on this team currently (Morneau, Mauer, Nathan…), greatness can be achieved. I love hamburgers, and hamburgers are fine. I can live with hamburgers. But I prefer steak. And when steak is on the menu for the same price, why not order steak.
This is the Twins’ W-L record. It is because of the players, not Gardy. I would venture to say that without Gardy, the team’s record would have been better the last 4 years or so. He was fine in his first years as a manager then he got to comfortable and started building his doghouse and his favorites. And that cost the team in wins, esp the last 2 years.
Thrylos, by your logic, the Twins front office has traded for/drafted/signed good players, then. You can’t have it both ways- if you think Gardy’s a hindrance and the front office is a hindrance, what on earth could account for the Twins’ winning record?
The players account for the teams’ W-L record. And I did not say that the front office is a hindrance… They are putting a team on the field than usually wins more games than it loses. The problem is that their goal is just that and not winning it all…
thrylos:
I guess I was extrapolating from previous posts- sorry for assuming. It just seems that some posters feel the Twins have been doing almost everything wrong- and based on their W/L record, I would say they’ve been doing almost everything right. (Almost being the key word- they can still work to improve, of course.)
The young pitching staff excelling was the main reason for success last year. Credit the farm system and drafting for the Twins success.
AJ, I would say the Twins being 3rd in the league in runs scored was the main reason for success last year.
The Twins had a middle of the pack pitching staff last year. The starting staff probably exceeded expectations, the bullpen probably fell short.
My problem with 2009 is I don’t think they’ll be 3rd in the league in runs scored again, with their current projected lineup. That will be a problem, unless the pitching staff takes a corresponding jump up.
Chief,
The reason that the Twins will hit just as well in 2009, is because Everett, Monroe and Lamb will not be getting any at-bats.
The Twins won’t hit .314 with RISP again. And just because Monroe, Lamb, Everett aren’t getting ABs doesn’t mean we’ll hit as well.
Monroe may have hit .200, but he drove in as many runs as Punto did in 3x the PAs. Punto is now playing every day, and I highly doubt we’re going to see a .280 season out of him again. Get ready for something more in line with his career .650 OPS.
Additionally, Span and Casilla will come back down, and I have no faith that Buscher does even half as well as he did in 2008.
2008 was a nice season, but it was an anomaly, and the Twins’ front office doesn’t seem to think so, unfortunately.
