Twins make another run at Escobar
Posted on December 18th, 2008 – 10:17 AMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins checked back with Atlanta about shortstop Yunel Escobar’s availability this week, when it appeared the Braves were close to re-signing shortstop Rafael Furcal, a person familiar with the discussions told the Star Tribune.
The talks didn’t go very far. At the time, Atlanta planned to use Escobar and Furcal, by moving Furcal to second base. Now, Furcal has pulled back and agreed to a three-year, $30 million deal with the Dodgers. So it appears Escobar is staying put as the Braves’ shortstop.
The Twins continue to explore shortstop options even though they have re-signed Nick Punto. Manager Ron Gardenhire said Punto would be the starting shortstop if he re-signed, but Punto’s versatility is well-known, and the Twins don’t want to limit their their search to the frustrating third base market.
They still have strong interest in Milwaukee’s J.J. Hardy, but so far, the pitching-depleted Brewers have not expressed a willingness to trade him. If the Twins can’t find a satisfactory trade, they are willing to move forward with Punto at shortstop and a platoon of Brendan Harris and Brian Buscher at third base.
181 Responses to "Twins make another run at Escobar"
What’s so frustrating about the 3B market as opposed to the SS market?
I think it is safe to say that with Furcal going to the Dodgers there is not going to be an Escobar in our future. I wonder how serious the talks went about Hardy and what they were asking for. He is definitely a guy who would add a lot to our starting lineup for years to come.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
I would also be very curious to know if the Twins have had any recent discussions with Seattle for Beltre. I wonder if they were still asking as much as they were last season. It would be interesting to know what the Brewers were asking for Hardy and Seattle for Beltre even though Beltre would be a free agent at the end of this coming year. Both players would be great additions to the Twins but I would hope they could sign Beltre to an extension if they managed a deal for him.
Boneyard: The 3B market has been more frustrating because two of the top guys the Twins want (Beltre/Atkins) come with steep price tags (Atkins alone was something like Slowey/Span/Prospect)
The FA options are either the old (Blake), the “uncertain” (Wigginton, though I’d take him for 8-9/year), and the injured (Crede)
As far as Hardy, it’s hard to make a deal if the team doesn’t want to deal him. You pretty much have no footing for any kind of deal, as the other team can just as easily back out at any time.
I did read that the Braves are shopping Johnson for an OF. Could Cuddyer (god forbid Young) and a prospect or two be a starting point for talks there? Atlanta has shown a willingness to take on larger contracts in the past. It would mean having a Spring Training “battle” between Punto and Casilla for the starting SS spot…but I get the feeling the FO would put pressure on Gardy to make sure Casilla is on the lineup opening day.
Or (and this would likely cause the Strib comments to burn down), Casilla could be included in a package for some other position we need. (Any teams shopping 3B or RP that need a 2B?)
WTF? Why are names being put in randomly again?
I’d go Slowey and maybe a Boof or a high minors level starter for Hardy, no problem. Maybe swap out Slowey for Blackburn and Perkins if they looking for quantity over quality. I think trading the entire back end of our rotation for Hardy would be worth it.
“If the Twins can’t find a satisfactory trade, they are willing to move forward with Punto at shortstop and a platoon of Brendan Harris and Brian Buscher at third base.”
Cheap
Apparently the Braves are still shopping Kelly Johnson and are looking for OF, SP. Move Casilla to SS.
what a joke the brewers will offer them a reasonable trade and the FO will become frightened by the fact that have to give something up to get something and do absoulutely nothing. But atleast we overpaid for a great utility fielder who is clueless at the plate and thinks he will be faster if he dives into first base. Maybe the extra mil will make him work on his situational bunting. Wait the idea is to pop it up and double off the guy at first right?
T What is better to go with a washed up player like Wigginton or to go Cheap where as a platoon of Harris and Buscher. It sure is good to go back to my old comment. The Twins either go with someone Washed up, old and washed up or Cheap. Wigginton would not be a good fit for the Twins (ala Mike Lamb Jr.)
Man, I would love to see Hardy in a Twinkie uniform this year. He is a solid SS, may not be top tier on defense, but solid none the less. And he has that pop we’re looking for. We have the pitching to package and the Brew Crew need them. I’d hate to let go of Slowey or Franchise or Baker, but the other 2 are expendable to me.
Whine: so there are a lot more good, cheap SS out there? The Brewers haven’t even said they’ll trade Hardy? Where is the bounty of SS? It will be no different.
I don’t think the platoon of Buscher and Harris is the answer. Buscher is not MLB caliber. Harris, if given the chance, may make himself the everyday 3b but I would much rather see something happen there. Hardy could play 3B for us if Gardy is demanding Punto as SS.
get hardy to keep young company on the bench while cuddy and nicky play every day!
“Apparently the Braves are still shopping Kelly Johnson and are looking for OF, SP. Move Casilla to SS.”
I thought that earlier, but Johnson would be no better than the Harris/Buscher platoon, and if Casilla is starting at SS, that means Punto is starting at 3B so we would basically be in the same place we are now.
If the BoSox sign Texeria, which sounds more and more likely they will be forced to move Youk over to Third forcing them to trade Mike Lowell. I could see the BoSox trading Lowell for next to nothing depending on how much of Lowell’s salary a team is willing to eat.
Thoughts on that being a possibility???
There is no way Hardy would be on the bench if we landed him! We would be an everyday player, putting in close to 145-150 games a year. He’d probably sell more jerseys and shirts than Go Go as well. As for Cuddy over Young, I won’t even go there
I would love to sit in on trade meetings where the Twins want a player as good as A-rod and as cheap as a rookie and all they want to give up is Players of Tyner and Lou Ford’s ability to get them.
Ryan, I don’t see the Twins spending a nickel on Lowell. He was injured, had surgery, and is otherwise nearing the end of his baseball life. Plus, he’s expensive with another 2 or 3 years on his contract. Plus, the Red Sox may demand a lot for him in the way of prosepcts if they’re expected to pick up the bulk of the tab. I just don’t see this happening. Maybe I’m missing something, though.
i am so sick of the twins front office and all of there lies it is getting really old. if they think that they are going to even have a chance when the m&m boys and nathan are up for free agency good luck. it gets really old every year and all they ever say is it wasnt the right move bs you are a fat peice of —-.
I wonder if Morneau will be seeking a contract like Tex’s in the future.
“The talks didn’t go very far.”
They never do.
“…they are willing to move forward with Punto at shortstop and a platoon of Brendan Harris and Brian Buscher at third base.”
I think that this has been their plan all along and they just tell the media that they “talked” to some team about some player now and then to make it look like they are actually making an effort to improve the team.
I would love for them to prove me wrong, but, I doubt it will happen.
Brewers are desperate for starting pitching having lost CC and Sheets. Give BS some time, but I’d rather have Hardy at SS and platoon Buscher/Harris than sign Wig with Punto at short.
Injuries are going to happen to the infielders and Punto can then play SuperUtilityMan where he excels best. He’ll still play close to 100 games and is worth the $4M in ‘09.
Overall, the GMs around the league are letting nearly all the free agents sit. They’ll get nervous and the contract values will come down. Writing is on the wall for them.
Hardy is a pipe dream. Beltre is probably even less likely. Escobar isn’t going anywhere. Johnson is 28 and overrated. Atkins is too expensive. There might be a chance for Kouzmanoff if the Twins are willing to give up on Young.
I have hope now that I have see JJ Hardy mentioned.
Still if the Twins are interested in a SS still then Punto seems like a complete waste of $$$.
Amen, Kay. “We just couldn’t find a good fit” means “We didn’t really try that hard and continuously low ball teams with our offers hoping one will bite because we don’t want to take a chance even if it means improving”.
No one is coming to the Twins. They are frugel. Here is a meeting for Hardy. (Twin’s) We will give you Boof Bonser and a bag of oranges for Hardy. Milwakee says no then the door slams on BS.
I agree that giving the $$$ to Punto after Gardy said he’d be the everyday SS is a waste, but if they stated he’d be Super Utility at that price fine. We need a legitimate starter at SS or 3B if we want to advance in the playoffs (assuming we’ll get there). Punto, Harris/Buscher are not players that help make a push to the big show.
and all they want to give up is Players of Tyner and Lou Ford’s ability to get them.
It seems to me it’s the fans who seem more interested in putting together all the players they don’t like and throwing them at a team for one guy.
Example: Numerous people who were bundling Rincon in with Cuddy (who at the time was on the DL) and “throwing in” Slowey in the hopes that it would get a guy like Atkins.
The Twins traded Garza last year, which shows they’re willing to part with young talent. The problem is other teams want WAY too much. (And we all know how the fans were so gracious of that deal)
Atkins IS NOT WORTH Span & Slowey let alone throwing a prospect in there.
Here is a meeting for Atkins. (Twin’s) We will give you Buscher for Atkins. Colorado says no then the door slams on BS.
Here is a meeting for Kouz. (Twin’s) We will give you Pat Neshek for Kouz. Padres says no then the door slams on BS. Anyone need more examples. I can keep going
I had hoped the Bill Smith-lead FO would not be as paralytic as the Terry Ryan-lead FO. Last year seemed to signal he was willing to be bold. There’s still a lot of offseason to go this year, but it appears as if we are reverting to the same inaction, even with some money to spend (allegedly). It does get old.
If you think Punto is a waste of money now, wait until he rips his thumb sliding into first base, the first month of the season, and is out for four months.
ES16,
If your scenerio happens, it would be a waste of money. But, on the bright side, the Twins will have a better chance of winning.
I agree with T that the Rox want too much for Atkins. There is a lot of merit in “needing to find a good fit.” I’m even sure Bill Smith is on the phone with other clubs about various players. However, the failure to even make an attempt at Wiggington depsite overpaying for Punto (did anyone make an offer to him that pushed his price up to $4 million per?) is puzzling and frustrating. Maybe there’s something bigger in the works that will resemble improvement to the club, but I doubt it.
Beltre will never accept a contract from the Twins he doesn’t want to be paid a nickel on the dollar.
Beltre is a bum who is over paid. I would not want him on this team.
IF the Twins really value Hardy as their SS of the future, they’d package Slowey, Casilla and a prospect to get the deal done. Punto would be an above average stop-gap 2nd baseman for two years while the Front Office figured out where to find the 2B of the future. Credit the Twins for making “baseball decisions” and wanting to hold on to their assets. It all depends on what/who they value, and they’re long-term payoff in the future. For what it’s worth, Hardy isn’t a spring chicken - he will be 27 next year and if he became a Twin, would be gone by the time he’s 32. No matter how bad we want someone like Hardy, it’s always going to come with a price. No one is going to trade away gold for fools gold.
Order:
1 - Span LF
2 - Hardy SS
3 - Mauer C
4 - Morneau 1B
5 - Cuddyer RF
6 - Kubel/Young DH
7 - Harris/Buscher 3B
8 - Punto 2B
9 - Gomez CF
Hardy would actually be a decent fit at third base as well. Buscher to AAA, Harris and Punto are the utility guys, and Matt Tolbert can play SS.
Same old story. “Yawn”………….
Good note Nate, however there is no way you stick a hitter like Hardy at #2. Are you nuts? It’ll be either 3 hole or 5 hole. Mauer should ALWAYS be batting the 2 spot. He’s a contact hitter.
Don’t know if I’m reading too much into it, but checking Brendon Harris’ splits I found this;
As a 3B: 296/389/510/899
As a 2B: 254/327/351/678
As a SS: 247/282/360/642
As a 3B Harris hit 14 doubles, 2 triples and one home run in 98 AB while drawing 14 walks (and one HBP) and striking out 18 times.
He also sported a .971 fielding pct. at the position (better than Alex Rodriguez and Mike Lowell) in 256.1 innings. While his range is somewhat limited at SS it’s pretty good (IMO) at 3rd. He also hits righties and lefties almost exactly the same.
It’s pretty safe to say that LaVelle and Joe C can take a couple of months off because this team won’t be making any moves to improve this team anytime soon.
As long as someboy can assure me that Buescher has learned how to throw a baseball during the offseason, I will try and reduce the extent of my depression accepting that he and Harris will be their plan at 3rd. and Punto………..Pass the Vodka.
I say let the Brewers name thier price for Hardy. I would give up Span/Slowey/prospect in an instant. I’m not completely sold on Span yet and we have the depth to let Slowey go. A proven power hitting middle infielder (Hardy) would be invaluable to the Twins. A fourth outfielder who played one good half of a season (Span) is expendable. Give Go-Go another chance to bat leadoff and put someone in the lineup who can protect Justin.
I agree that Harris is a solid defenseman and 3b would be a good fit. He’s got a good arm for it. 2b wasn’t his best. And as for his batting, I think that had to do with him getting more playing time at a constant spot and it was later in the year. Give him a full year (not platoon with pathetic Buscher, he’s a AAA lifer IMO) and he’ll be a solid fill.
Wiggington and Cuddyer have really similar offfense numbers with Wiggy more pop. We all know Cuddyer has a cannon in right BUT last year he got poor jumps and had trouble tracking fly balls.
I know he does not want to play third but he has the arm. Does anyone remember how his defense was at third I would guess it would be as good as Wiggington. So why get Wiggington when we have an extra outfielder who can do the same job with similar results?
I knew it. Twins are not going to get anybody in a trade or anything else. At least they have not signed any retreads as yet, but they will because they are not going to spend any money on good established players.
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Blah Things a GM for the Twins might say.
I for one wouldn’t mind the Twins passing on the Wigginton’s of the world if it means they would actually spend money on a true impact player once every 3 year. If you take away guys like Levan, Lamb, Everett, Batista, Rondell, and now, Punto, maybe we could afford to throw some money at Beltre-level player every now and again. Paying low-level veterans only to find out halfway through the season that you’ve got a younger, better player in AAA is not the way to win on the Twins’ budget.
I like harris at third,, he,s still a young hitter,23… I think, the bushman,, I think might have some HR,s in those big forearms of his,,it,s the only way he,ll stay up here,otherwise tollbert is right on his heels, for 3b,
Anyone need more examples. I can keep going
Examples? All I saw was trolling with no basis in fact. All the info we’ve got is Span/Slowey as a starting point for Atkins.
As far as getting Hardy from the Brewers….I don’t know how many times it needs to be said: The Brewers are not shopping Hardy.
The perfect example would be if a team called up looking to trade for Morneau. They wouldn’t get past “We’d like to talk to you about Mor-” before Smith hangs up.
Punto would be an above average stop-gap 2nd baseman for two years while the Front Office figured out where to find the 2B of the future.
I’d be concerned that they would’ve traded him in Casilla. I don’t think the Twins are looking for stop gap solutions after what they saw in 2008.
don,t see why you fools want to get rid of the slow man, he,s the best picher that we have,,
Slowey would be the last player the Twins should even think about trading, right up there with Mauer.
Carlos Quentin, Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, Jermaine Dye, A.J Pierzinski, Orlando Cabrera, Alexei Ramirez, Joe Crede, Juan Uribe, Nick Swisher and Junior Griffey played positions for the White Sox last year.
The Twins position players were Morneau, Mauer and the Seven Dwarfs.
Yet many Twins fans complain that the Twins were a better team, but Gardy f-cked it up!
I don’t think so.
T,
I know the Brewers aren’t shopping Hardy but we may be able to engage them in discussions. I don’t think Billy Smith would instantly hang up on the Marlins if the dangled Hanley Ramierez in front of us (I know that would never happen but hear me out). That’s what we need to do to the Brewers. Get them engaged in conversations by offering some of our awesome pitching talent. They are going to lose Sheets and Sabathia to free angency so they would be crazy to hang up on us if we threw out packages around players like Slowey, Blackburn, or Perkins.
“Examples? All I saw was trolling with no basis in fact. All the info we’ve got is Span/Slowey as a starting point for Atkins”
That is not what the Twins want to offer. In the FO’s mind (Twins FO) they want Boof for Kouz. LNP for A-Rod. Toby Gardenhire for Atkins. God only knows what they want to give in a trade for Hardy. Teams are going to try and get compensated equally. They don’t ( Other teams ) want the Twins hand me downs.
Everyone begging for Beltre needs to give up. His NTC includes the Twins. He would be at best a one year rental anyway. The Twins have very few options.
Why not look at Crede, granted he is coming back from an injury, but he is will only be 31 this coming season, he has decent power and a solid fielder, I believe that he is a free agent and would probably be reasonably priced
The Twins would never trade Toby Gardenhire. He’s way too valuable. He’s the team’s 259th rated prospect.
Crede would be an injured Lamb.
sane,
just for the fun of it, lets compare OPS+ on every position between the Twins and Sux regulars last year and 5 bench players (ranked by higher number of appearances):
C: Mauer 137, AJP 88
1B Morneau 137, Konerko 102
2B Casilla 94, Ramirez 103
3B Buscher 100, Crede 98
SS Punto 99, Cabrera 84
LF Young 102, Quentin 148
RF Span 125, Dye 126
CF Gomez 79, Swisher 92
DH Kubel 118, Thome 123
bench 1 Harris 97, Uribe 76
bench 2 Cuddyer 92, Anderson 81
bench 3 Lamb 44, Griffey 95
bench 4 Monroe 83, Wise 90
bench 5 Redmond 80, Hall 66
It is closer than you think… (and a couple of those i.e Span and Dye and Kubel and Thome were very close)
Wigginton would be an expensive Mike Lamb
Here is something to think about…
Sign Texeria for 10yrs/$220Mill.
We are getting a new ballpark and this would help sell tickets… let alone help us win a championship. This protects Justin/Joe in the line-up. Yes, I know that Justin and Joe will command bigger paydays later on and that is a chance I am willing to make.
Here is what I envision if no Tex.
1st base: Justin
2nd Base: Casilla
Short Stop: Punto
3rd Base: Cuddyer (oh, did you forget he has played there?
Outfield: Span, Gomez, Young, Kubel
Designated: Kubel, Young
Starters: Baker, Liraino, Blackburn, Perkins, Slowey
Pitching wins championships. Why would we want to trade away quality starting pitching? Harris is a solid 3rd baseman. The only thing I’m pissed about is Punto coming back. I’m glad the Twins are giving in to trading our solid pitchers for an overpaid infielder just to say they made a trade.
thrylos,
The interesting part of your OPS+ comparisons is that we are inferior at all the starting positions except M&M, SHORTSTOP AND THIRD BASE! (The two positions we are desperate to fix!)
how about keeping our young pitchers and spending a few bucks to get a legitimate right handed power hitting DH.
Talk about an area with a lack of run production !!!!!
I’m glad the Twins are giving in to trading our solid pitchers for an overpaid infielder just to say they made a trade.
We could have picked up Blake if Pohlad wasn’t so Go_ _amm cheap. We could have held onto all of our players and not got rid of anyone and picked up Blake. He would have been a great option at 3rd. But I am ok now cause at least we picked up our most athletic player Punto
sane,
Dye and Span were a single away from having the same OPS+, and Kubel was probably 3 doubles or 4 away from Thome. And the bench was much better than that of the Sux. It is not that huge of a difference… the point is that 6/9 starters had OPS+ at or higher than the MLB average in both teams. And the Twins’ laggers other than Gomez (Casilla and Punto) were close to the MLB average.
Does that team need better hitting? of course it does and it has to come from the corner spots. Third base is the one that should be targeted. I expect that Young/Cuddyer at RF will improve from last year (as will Gomez)
The Twins Front Office isn’t interested in winning Championships, they want to stay competitive, anything more is great, anything less they can pull out the “small market” card and most Twins fans are happy with that.
What about Kouzmanhoff? (sp?0, Would the Rangers be interested in trading Blalock?
Maybe the Twins will wait until Velencia is ready?
jimmybee,
So you think it was Pohlad’s decision not to offer Blake a 3rd year?
I’ll bet he wouldn’t know the difference between Casey Blake, Robert Blake and Frosted Flake.
You should find a more realistic scapegoat.
There’s a reason Cuddyer was moved to the OF.
I miss Robert Blake where is the old guy making liscense plates these days. sane I wish that the Twins had more money to contribute towards the payroll. Also Blake would have been a very good answer. What was the main reasoning behind not signing him anyways. Probably money or something
“John Castino says:
December 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
There’s a reason Cuddyer was moved to the OF.”
Bad fielding % and also had a strong arm with no accuracy
so they’ve done nothing, big news. “they continue to inquire” is twins speak for making it seem as though they’re working to improve the left side of the infield with something other than players currently on the roster or in the system. they signed punto, just make the man your starting shortstop and stop dancing around the issue. every offseason it’s the same annoying bits of nothing.
That’s right, being in RF gives him an extra 200 feet to react to the ball. 
jimmybee,
The reason they didn’t sign Blake was probably age, risk and money.
The reason they didn’t sign Wiggy was money.
I’m sure the FO is looking for outrageous bargains, which won’t come until ST is about to start, and the unsigned FA’s get panicky.
sane by not seeing the Twins sign Blak it tells me something. It tells me they are not going to pick up a decent 3rd Baseman. I say this because he wasn’t a 10 year deal. He wasn’t out of the Twins pay range. He wasn’t going to cost any prospects or players to switch teams. He ( Blake ) was perfect for the Twins to acquire. I don’t understand. I am fully confused at that situation. I am begining to think that the Twins FO is full of sh!t
Blake ms spl
All this petty banter about what the Twins should do to improve their infield and add right-handed pop is pointless. Actions speak louder than words. The actions of the Twins show that they don’t feel a NEED to add right handed pop or a LEGIT proven 3B. Wiggs could solve both and they don’t even have to give up any players yet they don’t even attempt to make an offer. Others said during the Blake discussions that the hole thing was a ruse by the Twins to make fans think that they’re willing to spend some money and I thought that to be a little far-fetched. Now Looking back they probably did know(or had a really good idea) what the Dodgers were going to offer Blake. So they made him an offer that looked close but really expected him to stay with the Dodgers.
Furthermore, the BP is in serious need of a proven right handed set up man. Once again this is a need that everyone has knonw about since the Nechek things happened and no real attempt to bring in a free agent reliever has even been talked about publicly.
All the Twins actions thus far this off season point to the Twins FO trying to doop the fans into thinking that they are making a serious effort to improve the team when they are really just trying to keep pay-roll as low as possible so they can shower thier personnal favorites(Nick Punto and Cuddy) with undeserved starting positions and big $ contracts.
Meanwhile, the fans are placated by this team that has alot of young talent and good coaching. Gardy makes sure things are done right around here so the team is consistantly competetive. If another World Series is to be in future for the Twins we need to have that one special player that says “jump on my back boys and I’ll take us there”
because the Twins are never going to spend the money to have a large enough group of above average players, do to the finances of todays major league baseball(no salary cap).
R.I.P. Kirby Puckett
The Twins ‘claim’ they didn’t sign Blake over the 3rd year.
In reality, the third year would’ve cost them $2.25M, with another $1.25M in 2012. That’s the difference in what he signed for, and what they ‘claim’ they offered.
So I suspect you’re right…the Twins were never serious about Blake. If they were, they’d have signed him. The ‘third year’ is just a handy excuse not to do anything.
I’m sure the FO is looking for outrageous bargains
This might be the case but there is nothing at third base other than Wiggington who will sign before that.
Unless…
the Red Sox sign Texeira, Lowell is proven healthy and the Twins grab him and some salary relief for a couple of prospects
jama over the last 5 games how many rebounds has Love averaged. He is a rebounding Rodman like machine. When can we paint his and McHAles hair multiple colors
If harris is such a great answer, why did he have all of 37 ABs in September?
Crede and Uribe may be scrounging around, looking for a job at the start of ST
mike,
The answer to your question is Buscher and the hope that his defense “COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE THAT BAD”!
Now, we know that it could.
Merry Christmas, jimmy bee. I mean it.
Gotta go.
sane maybe Aaron Boone will be around or even Pepe Frias
Thank you romer and a very Merry X-Mas to u to ho, ho, ho
Is Joe Crede being considered by any teams? Has there been any word as to the current condition of his back? If someone has some info send me the link!!
Uribe is like a bad Gomez at the plate!
sane there is something I find hillarious about the Latin Afro. It gets me laughing everytime
Uribe? I’d rather have Harris starting
The Twins’ list of possibilities for 3B just got shorter. Aaron Boone just signed with the Astros.
Who has the all time biggest hair in baseball. My guess is Gary Maddox or Bake McBride anyone else throw in there 2 cents
I’d rather have PABLO Escobar starting.
“ES16 says:
December 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
The Twins’ list of possibilities for 3B just got shorter. Aaron Boone just signed with the Astros.”
LOL. That was my sure thing for the Twins. Now I am possitive, we are not getting a 3rd baseman.
I’d rather have Harris, also.
But some fans want FO activity of ANY kind.
Even if it means re-signing Lamb-, Everett-, Monroe- and Livan-clones.
In the spirit of the upcoming holidays, it might be a good idea for Twins fans to take a moment and be thankful for what we have.
We constantly (and legitimately) wish for more power every year. It doesn’t happen, which is frustration. But it’s got to be hard to be a Rangers fan begging for more pitching; a Seattle fan watching a supposedly good team dissolve into a complete mess; a Reds fan knowing Dusty Baker will destroy the young pitchers; a Nats fan wondering when they will ever have a real star; a Pads fan seeing a team go from playoff-bound to an auction house; or a Pirates fan wishing for an honest-to-goodness legitimate baseball team. Not to mention the Tigers and Royals.
88 wins; 2 players finishing in the top 5 of MVP voting; batting champion; 3 all-stars; good, young pitching rotation; young crop of rookies that can improve; a new ballpark on the way; and the entire winter to possibly sign/trade players. Not too shabby.
jimmy bee,
ESPN had a thing on the subject of hair, here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=baseball/hair/gallery
thrylos98 Thank You I knew I was forgetting one player. Oscar Gamble
Sane, I agree we shouldn’t sign someone just to sign someone. For the record, I was against the Lamb, Everett, Livan, and Monroe signings. I think it was jama that had to talk me off the ledge (figuratively) after the Everett signing and some on the blog were saying he just a notch below Jeter (ugh!). But I digress. I just think Wiggington is a better value than any of those guys, even at up to $7 million per.
Boneyard,
Do you think Crede at 1 year/ $1 million is worth the very little risk involved?
The only thing frustrating is this team’s transparent argument that the market for players isn’t the market. Player A isn’t “too expensive” you are just unwilling to pay market price. Player B is available for trade IF you offer market price, if not, then don’t blame the market. Where this team is can EXCLUSIVELY be track to its willingness to pay market prices to upgrade the roster.
At that price and for only one year, you bet he’s worth the risk. However, the likeliehood that Wiggington will have more of an impact is higher. Still, for $1 million . . .
sane, Crede will not sign a 1/$1 Mil contract… Worse case scenario he signs a 1 year /$3-7 M (with incentives) and maturing optional years based on PA.
Still think that the Twins should offer Wiggy 3/$24 (Cuddyer money)
sane was Adam Everett worth 2.8 mill
If the Twins do make a move, it will probably be something none of us saw coming. That’s the way it usually works. Maybe they’ll make a trade for Robb Quinlan and sign him to an extension.
Why guys like jimmy bee even bother to post is beyond me. If the Twins are so hopeless, just go away. Give up, stop whining, and go away. And anyone who thinks trading Slowey and Casilla is a good idea at this point is just flat-out nuts, regardless of who they’d get. This is a very good team as it stands; why make a trade unless it truly works in the team’s favor? Just so you guys can complain about it a year later the way you did about Garza and Bartlett for Delmon?
thrylos,
The worst case scenario is that no one will ignore his back problems to offer him a contract.
Jmmy bee: The difference is Crede has actually had some good years. You can’t say the same for Everett. We knew he was going to be bad. You can’t say the same for Crede. Again, it’s not just the money, it’s also the player.
adidasman Indonesian factory workers producing clothes for the German sportswear giant Adidas are subject to forced overtime, physical abuse and poverty-line wages, the European parliament heard yesterday…….
You are all a bunch of whiners. “Why can’t they make a trade?” Why would a team that has always developed their own players trade all their young talent away for one player? They are not going to do it! Get over it! Go become a Yankees fan if you want a team that spends money like legislature and is willing to trade their farm system for a player.
Sad, isn’t it, jimmy bee? Still, life has never been fair.
Twins Fans actually the Yankees are starting to keep players they develop lately. Joba,Hughes, Cano, Kennedy…. They are picking up free agents and starting to keep and develop there own talent
Twins Fan: No one said they expect to spend with the Yankees or any other large market club for that matter. No one is looking for an All Star at every position. I think most of us just want the club to get better. Isn’t that the goal? Get better, contend for a world title, that sort of thing? And no, that’s not what the club has done in recent years. Winning the division is nice, but the whole enchilada is better.
There are too many Twins Fans who are complacent and like mediocrity. It’s the “at least we’re not Royals fans” mentality.
Amen, John C.
ANYBODY ELSE WISH THE GARZA FOR YOUNG TRADE HADN’T TAKEN PLACE LAST SEASON SO WE COULD HAVE KEPT GARZA THIS SEASON AND TRADED ONE OF THOSE OTHER YOUNG PITCHERS FOR BELTRE? DON’T NEED YOUNG. DO NEED BELTRE.
“Twins fans who…like mediocrity”?
I don’t think there are many of those.
I like mediocrity. I feel disappointed every year the Twins have a winning record. My motto is “.500 or bust.” People get too excited when the team is in contention, I like quiet complacency myself.
Even Steven, I always say to myself. If the Twins win one they must lose 1 or I get very nervous and anxious and I have an anxiety attack. Win one, lose one, win one, lose one. Anxiety = panic attack and paper bag breathing technique.
ES16,
I like mediocrity, also.
I keep rejecting beautiful women for that same reason.
Too much excitement!
Sane,
Yes, exactly. What man would want a beautiful woman, when there are so many mediocre ones around. The same is true with baseball. Think back to the Twins’ World Series wins. It was awful, all that celebrating, screaming, yelling and cheering. No give me a fourth-place finish and a line-up full of Puntos and I am happy.
When was the last time the Twins were in the World Series or played for the AL Pennent?
sane myself I look to purchase nice big houses off the coast of California and say to myself way to much excitement. I grab my paperbag and start breathing slowly and must think not exciting. I then drive over to Compton and say that’s more like it
I cant help but read when I see that the Twins are still looking for a shortstop or thirdbaseman.Eventhough I know they will eventually not upgrade at either position. In the end they will always come back to teams wanting too much in return for a thirdbaseman, and that they paid Punto too much money to still be just a utility player. They like to lead the fans on, when it’s obvious that they are content with competing, and not contending. Now if they go out and get somebody I will of course be right back on the bandwagon, because I am still a Twins fan and probably always will be.
Youbetcha I’m happy about the Twins giving Punto $8M and waddabout Cuddyer, oh boy, he’s gonna come around this next year dontchathink.
“When was the last time the Twins were in the World Series or played for the AL Pennent?”
2002.
Jimmy Bee…
Bake McBride yes… but don’t forget about Oscar Gamble of the Yankees back in the day… that man had a FLETCH style fro!
BC Beneke I have been waiting to ask a question. Over the last 5-6 games not counting last night how many rebounds has KLove averaged. On a side note I like the Latin Afro the best of them all
Since we aren’t going to upgrade the offense, and we aren’t going to trade the extra outfielder, or any of our prospects to improve this team…
Is it safe to say that by the end of the offseason everyone is going to hate Bill Smith as much if not more than I do?
Scary, but I think it’s going to lead to that.
Except for T, Sane, and a couple of others that are always contrarian to the blogdom waves (and no that’s not a bash to them…) But just to point out, I don’t join waves… I try to create them… so I wonder if everyone else starts hating on Bill Smith if I will get bored with it?
Here’s the link the best fros:
http://www.bugsandcranks.com/the-clubhouse/landon-evanson/fro-sho-baseballs-best-afros/
Love, I don’t have the stats, but I think he’s averaging just over 8 boards a game on the season which isn’t bad.
If you recall at the beginning of the season I said I thought he’d get 14 points and 8 boards and 4 assists a game.
I still see those as pretty close…
I will revise it and say… 12 points 9 boards 3 assists, but patting myself on the back I also said repeatedly that they would start 4-17, and Wittman would resign because McHale wasn’t man enough to fire him.
McHale is a much better coach than Wittman, and he’s a much better coach than he was a GM/VP…
That being said he is at zero for December which is about as good as he will ever be as a head coach. The man is a disease worse than cancer or aids, or the black plague.
He makes Nick Punto look like Cal Ripken Jr! He makes Bill Smith look like the guy from the Red Sox, and he makes George Bush Jr look like Ghandi!
McHale is the antichrist!
ES16 Don Suttons fro is awesome but these days it has been converted sadly into a Jerry Curl mullet fro I do believe my fair man
trade for hardy give up perkins and bonser
BC I only watch the games to see KLove. He is the only possitive to the Wolves but I fear eventually having McFail as a coach and also with the losing and the always cold and overcast weather he may soon end up like Donnie Moore
If you guys still follow the Timberwolves, you’re clearly masochists.
BC, I don’t hate Bill Smith. I don’t even know the guy. I don’t even hate what he’s done as GM (at least not yet, but give us both a little time). If everyone does start hating him as much as you, you might indeed get bored with it. The question is, will you then become a BS apologist in order to make more waves?
The Orioles may have reached a settlement with Sidney Ponson regarding the grievance.
this makes me think about going on line to “make another run” at a new bmw 6 series oops the payments are $1400, i guess i better keep driving my ford punto!
I just can’t imagine the Twins NOT upgrading the left side of the infield again, I really can’t.
I think that thay offered Blake the right contract,, i like him but, we could have used him last year,, that ship has sailed.fourteen, mil for two yr, is to much,
Tom,
Upgrade the left side of the infield?
No problem!
Move Casilla to SS and our next project will be the right side.
fourteen, mil for two yr, is to much,
Last time I checked, Cuddaver is owed $15.25 mil for 2009 and 2010…
My team is on the field! A minor deal involving Boof or Humber would be understandable, due to lack of options left for each, but boof has the stuff to be good in pen, humber I’d like to keep as long guy, who can take over in case of injuries, which always happen. We have enough depth in system, I say, play with our own!
The front office knows that it would be all but impossible to get Escobar away from Atlanta, they announce that they tried again?
Is this some kind of attempt to save face for completely dropping the ball on the offseason thus far? The Braves traded Lillibridge and missed Furcal… how are they planning on getting Escobar?
I suppose if they tried Blackburn, Harris (to fill the SS gap), and another prospect or something… but Atlanta isn’t dealing Yunel and Smith knows it.
WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP WRITING THAT A HARRIS/BUSCHER PLATOON WILL DO US ANY GOOD????? UGH!! Harris is a utility player, and Buscher is one of those guys who gets called up when someone gets hurt. Neither of them are everyday players. We need AN EVERYDAY 3rd baseman. I will guarantee we could get Crede for cheap. Yes, he is injury prone, I get that. But the upside “potential” far outweighs the platoon. Sign him to a 1 year, incentive laden contract(which is all he will get at this point) with an option for year 2. You don’t think Crede would want revenge on the ChiSox for not really appreciating him the past couple years??
Oh, and all this “he costs too much” mumbo jumbo..who cares? It’s not like we’re saving our money for Manny or Teixeira. I think 2-3 times Smith has said on here “we have some money to play with.” WELL GO PLAY!
Face it everyone! Bill Smith is turning out to be like Kevin McHale. Scary.
Also, everyone wants to sign a player, but who in the hell do you think we would ever get for $5 mil a year for 2 years. NOBODY! Get over it! All free agents have baggage and it is time we all accept the fact that this team WILL NEVER, EVER, NEVER get involved in free agency.
Oh wait, we just inked Punto to one of the largest free agent contracts issued by the Twins in history.
Holy cow, it is Kevin McHale. Maybe he is doing double duty to help both the Wolves and Twins control their costs.
All free agents have baggage?
Because they have played too long?
Venerable New York Times sports columnist Murray Chass reports that Twins owner Carl Pohlad (estimated net worth: $3.1 billion) is the richest of all baseball team owners. I knew, of course, that Pohlad was wealthy, but I didn’t know that he was three times richer than Yankees owner George Steinbrenner.
This stuff usually drives me crazy when I think about the decade-long Twins campaign to get taxpayer subsidies for a new stadium. Chass puts it into a different context, in which the Twins are usually excused for letting the Torii Hunters and the Johan Santanas move on to teams in bigger markets because they can’t afford to pay the big bucks.
New York Times sports columnist Murray Chass reports that Twins owner Carl Pohlad (estimated net worth: $3.1 billion) is the richest of all baseball team owners. I knew, of course, that Pohlad was wealthy, but I didn’t know that he was three times richer than Yankees owner George Steinbrenner.
This stuff usually drives me crazy when I think about the decade-long Twins campaign to get taxpayer subsidies for a new stadium. Chass puts it into a different context, in which the Twins are usually excused for letting the Torii Hunters and the Johan Santanas move on to teams in bigger markets because they can’t afford to pay the big bucks.
Is that a Kunza I see? nice point.
Tut
NY Times sports columnist Murray Chass reports that Twins owner Carl Pohlad (estimated net worth: $3.1 billion) is the richest of all baseball team owners. I knew, of course, that Pohlad was wealthy, but I didn’t know that he was three times richer than Yankees owner George Steinbrenner.
This stuff usually drives me crazy when I think about the decade-long Twins campaign to get taxpayer subsidies for a new stadium. Chass puts it into a different context, in which the Twins are usually excused for letting the Torii Hunters and the Johan Santanas move on to teams in bigger markets because they can’t afford to pay the big bucks.
I hate to appologize for Carl Pohlad, but in this case… The Twins can’t afford to charge 250-600 dollars a ticket for prime seats because minnesotan’s can’t afford it. In NY City that is chump change for the wealthy that would just go to be seen.
Pohlad probably makes $2-3million a day on interest alone… no excuse not to cough up that much extra to get a good 3rd baseman…
Jim,
the important equation is that Pohlad does not make that much money from the Twins and Steinbrenner makes more money from the Yankees than Pohlad makes from the Twins so he can spend more. That simple.
The Twins are nothing more than a tax write off for Pohlad and his other companies. He has no interest in making a profit and paying higher taxes. That’s the bottom line…
Jim you are right, but wrong at the same time.
all this complaining, must mean everyone cares and loves the Twins.. Someone tell me another small market team who is as successful as the Twins. The Yankees have proven many times that money guarantees nothing..Every year the same old whining and we usually wind with a very good team..I thought last year it was the pitching that did us in, no one is complaining about that. To me the pitching really under achieved at the end of the season..
We are all complaining in a way about the pitching as much as anything else (except maybe for me complaining about resigning the blight of humanity, the george bush jr of baseball Nick Punterrible).
A lot of us want to trade one of the starting pitchers to provide a power bat in the lineup that will drive in more runs to protect the other 4, and the 5th that comes from the minors (or Humber)…
WE also as a vast majority want to see a solid arm brought in to the bullpen… preferably either a solid veteran, or a man with a 97mph heater that can just strike people out from the sounds of it.
But everything we want one way or the other (except for my wanting Bill Smith’s job taken from him) is all about making the pitchers’ lives easier my friend.
At the beginning of the offseason I would have been upset with the twins for not getting a shortstop and third baseman. Now I happy with a Harris/Tolbert at shortstop and Macri/Buscher at 3rd. Notice I did not include Punto cause I am still upset about signing him.
BC.B,
or a man with a 97mph heater that can just strike people out from the sounds of it.
alright… here are a couple of options:
a. a guy who has a 94 mph fastball that jumps up to 96-97 occasionally and has a plus slider as his out pitch
b. a guy who has a 91-92 mph fastball that jumps to 94-95 occasionally and a killer curveball that hitters hit .185 off it
Neshek’s average fastball averaged about 90 the last couple of years, btw
here are the questions:
1. do you believe that those 2 guys could be useful out of a pen?
2. would you rather have a. or b. as your set up man?
let’s assume they are both righthanders
Let’s all face it: The Twins will make no moves of significance between now and spring training.
The twins do not need to pick up a big time arm. Guerrier will be better than last year and Crain should be too. On top of that Mijares is an impact arm that should fill the 8th inning better than anyone they would pick up. Breslow was great last year and showed he can handle big spots and is definitely better than reyes. If Guerrier or Crain explode they can always bring up Swarzak/Mulvey or put Gutierrez (sp?) on the fast track. I don’t think the bullpen is a huge concern heading into next year. Getting some more power in the lineup and managing the outfield situation on the other hand are.
Sounds a lot like Jesse Crain and Matt Guerrier when they’re healthy and effective, Thry…
Steve,
yes for a. and no for b. (and those were last year numbers)
b. is Boof.
what exactly qualifies as a move of significance? if the twins are going to trade or sign a free agent, you want that person to be better than the player they would be replacing. wiggy is not better than the harris/buscher platoon, neither was blake and neither is kouzmanoff no matter how many homers he hit (his obp is very gomez like). beltre isn’t coming and it would be crazy to trade what the mariners want for one year of beltre (plus the money to cover his no trade clause). atkins is not very good. as far as SS goes, hardy and escobar are not coming, and the only free agent that was better than what we have is furcal, and he’s too expensive and too much of an injury risk. trading for jack wilson would be nothing more than paying 7 million to nick punto, who we signed for 4 million (renteria signed for 9 and izturis signed for 3, by the way, so that shows you how the SS market is) there’s just nothing of an improvement out there. now you guys can keep bitching about how “cheap” and “stupid” the twins FO is, or that they never make any moves, but there aren’t any upgrades out there that the twins can get. except brandon lyon, i highly endorse the brandon lyon signing.
Wow the Punto negativity never gets old. Are we B-washed that this Twins system has great young pitching and more to come? I like Baker, Liriano, and Slowey. Trade the rest because they won’t succeed anywhere else. That will get us a player to be named later, or one of the 2 dozen players mentioned above.
Doesn’t Cuddyer have just one year left on his contract with a team option for 2010? Regardless, sign Crede or Wiggy. Twins need some rh power
Hey Steve,
What pipeline exactly do you have again where you hear JJ isn’t coming here? I’m curious to know that. He has been worried about getting traded all autumn..he enjoys being a Brewer. But once he got to Mn..I think he’d realize how much better off he’d be with the Twins, fit right in and play his butt off. This is one of the pieces to a championship puzzle.( I know we have to give up pitching, big deal) And stop with the other line about Furcal and too much money. The situation reminds me of one of those WWII Submarine movies where the waters pouring in and the sailors are up to their necks and within minutes they will be compeltely underwater..Twins ownership/FO are those sailors..and the cash is up to their necks..and they’re about to drowned in it in the next 2 yrs.
sry..completely underwater..
hey - ya gotta check this out …twins have a new 3b…go to the twins roster and notice delbinson romero …3b ..only problem is he is listed at 108 years old…born 1/1/1900….so all of us who have been scalding bill smith, maybe we were too quick to jump his ass….damn the twins always come thru just when you think they have let you down….cant wait to see this guy in spring training…..
wasn`t that a shortstop that we let go to Florida that played in world seriesand the year before while still in the race didn`t we get rid of or trade one pretty good one
According to John Henry in a story found on the Strib sports pages the BoSox are out of the bidding war for Tex.
Seems most of the posters here don’t actually watch the Twins.
Let me square some things here.
With the current lineup the Twins win the division. The current lineup will be intact on February 15, ‘09 .
None of the starting pitchers will be traded. That is just stupid to think of.
All of the names tossed around are not trade worthy.
Beltre, Wigginton, Hardy etc.
Mostly over paid…over rated…bad attitude players.
We have an abundance of quality and depth on this team in the form of everyday players and pitchers.
Hope you are all up to speed now.
This team will not win the division next year unless we pick up some RH bat– did anyone one forget this tam was shut out 13-14 times last year, or once out of every 7-8 losses? How many games did we score just 1 run, too?
Management might just have to get used to the fact that some of our wealth of arms in the minors might actually succeed in another organization if they are traded for a commodity we need. Garza was a case in point this year and most Twins trades usually work out in our favor as the Twins scouts/FO usually know who to ask for in other organizations.. David Ortiz, Lohse, Tapani, Aguilera,Casilla, etc…. Garza will probably regress to a Silva type season (4-15) and Young will bang to 15-20 HR 85 rbi and Harris will be better or equal to Bartlett. He who laughs last laughs longest and the Twins will be better in the long run on the TBay deal.
Now is time for the Twins to strike when the poker is hot.. need to make a bold move before Mand M wear down/ opt for free agency… Hardy, DeRosa for the Right side and move Punto in the process.. Tolbert and Harris as subs will do the job at a fraction of the cost. We have the pieces to entice the Brewers- Boof, Humber, Mulvey and another prospect (the 19 year old hotshot from the Santana trade?) and Punto- git er done! Why have all the poker chips if you’re not willing to use them? Twins took a decent gamble with the TBay trade last year, didn’t work out as well as we all hoped but the dividends will pay off this year and the next.. Gomez and Hardy for essentailly Santana would be the sweetest Twins deal.
