Twins need a third baseman who can play defense, too
Posted on December 23rd, 2008 – 7:43 PMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins have a reputation as one of the best defensive teams in the majors, but last season, they sure didn’t live up to it.
They committed 108 errors, their highest total since 2001, and ranked third to last in the American League with a .982 fielding percentage.
Carlos Gomez showed tremendous range in center field, but he made eight errors, and Delmon Young made another eight errors in left field. Other trouble spots included second base, where Alexi Casilla made 12 errors in 833 innings, and third base, where Brian Buscher made 10 errors in 519 innings.
The Twins scored 829 runs, third most in team history, despite hitting just 111 home runs, fewest in the American League. An argument can be made that they need more power at third base or shortstop, and they probably need setup relief help the most.
But here’s another quiet truth: The defense needs to get better, not worse. This is one reason they drew a line and refused to offer three guaranteed years to Casey Blake, and this is a big reason they’re not making more of a push for Ty Wigginton.
In my time covering the Twins (since 2005), here’s what I’ve learned:
(*) Michael Cuddyer’s third base defense in 2005 was considered a disaster — by Manager Ron Gardenhire and by Cuddyer himself. Cuddyer said he felt a huge weight lifted off his shoulders when Gardenhire moved him to right field, and his offensive numbers supported the theory. But others in the organization wish they hadn’t given up on that experiment so quickly.
(*) After the Tony Batista experiment in 2006 — now that was a disaster — the Twins were thrilled with Nick Punto at third base, but he pressed when handed the everyday third base job out of spring training in 2007.
A look back at the numbers, with help from The Hardball Times:
2005 — Innings at third base (816), errors (8 throwing, 7 fielding), fielding percentage (.942), revised zone rating (.717), balls fielded outside of zone (49).
(Putting numbers to a player’s defense is an inexact science, but one of the best metrics is The Hardball Times’ revised zone rating. In Cuddyer’s case, this means he successfully fielded 71.7 percent of the balls hit into the third base zone — zones, defined as the areas on the field where 50 percent of balls hit are converted into outs –and fielded an additional 49 balls outside the zone. Studying those two numbers help tell you how fielders are on balls they should get to, and how many they’re getting to that they shouldn’t.)
As a 3B, Cuddyer batted .255 with 11 HR, 34 RBI and a 92 OPS+. (OPS+ adjusts for league and park averages, with 100 being an average performance.)
2006 — Innings at third base (434), errors (3 throwing, 3 fielding), fielding percentage (.954), revised zone rating (.652), balls fielded outside of zone (15).
As a 3B, Batista batted .236 with 5 HR, 21 RBI and a 72 OPS+.
2006 — Innings at third base (766), errors (5 throwing, 4 fielding), fielding percentage (.962), revised zone rating (.773), balls fielded outside of zone (24).
As a 3B, Punto batted .289 with 1 HR, 39 RBI and an 82 OPS+.
2007 — Innings at third base (828), errors (4 throwing, 2 fielding), fielding percentage (.973), revised zone rating (.708), balls fielded outside of zone (29).
As a 3B, Punto batted .226 with 1 HR, 22 RBI and a 56 OPS+.
MAKING SENSE OF THE NUMBERS
The Twins are aware of these defensive numbers but rely on their own eyes. Gardenhire and the coaching staff know what they like and don’t like on defense. Their scouts know what’s acceptable for this team and what isn’t. The above examples give us some benchmarks:
Fielding percentage: Unacceptable (Cuddyer’s .942 and Batista’s .954). Acceptable (Punto’s .962).
Errors: Unacceptable (Cuddyer’s one error for every 54 innings). Acceptable (Punto’s one error for every 85 innings).
Revised zone rating: Unacceptable (Batista’s .652). Acceptable (Punto’s .773).
Defensive sins can be forgiven when a player makes up for them at the plate. But with Twins third basemen, poor defense and poor offense seem to work hand in hand.
The Twins tried Mike Lamb at third base last season. That didn’t work, either.
2008 (with Twins) — Innings at third base (458), errors (2 throwing, 2 fielding), fielding percentage (.970), revised zone rating (.602), balls fielded outside of zone (14).
As a 3B in 2008, Lamb batted .231 with 1 HR, 25 RBI and a 51 OPS+.
MOVING FORWARD WITH HARRIS AND BUSCHER?
During the pennant race, Harris and Buscher proved to be an effective combination. Buscher’s defense was shaky but improved over 2007, and Harris proved surprisingly effective at third base.
Harris had played just 15 games at third base heading into this season. I asked him about playing third base in June, and he said, “It’s in my golf bag, but I don’t know that it’s my favorite club.”
I remember moments when a ball would scoot past Harris, and I’d think: “Punto puts that in his pocket.” But what Harris got to, he handled pretty well, and he has a strong, accurate arm. Buscher’s arm is more erratic, but he’s worked tirelessly on his footwork and shown some improvement:
2007 — Innings at third base (201), errors (1 fielding, 3 throwing), fielding percentage (.923), revised zone rating (.512), balls fielded outside of zone (10).
As a 3B in 2007, Buscher batted .250 with 2 HR, 9 RBI and a 72 OPS+.
2008 — Innings at third base (519), errors (10 — 5 fielding, 5 throwing), fielding percentage (.938), revised zone rating (.688), balls fielded outside of zone (16).
As a 3B in 2008, Buscher batted .302 with 4 HR, 45 RBI and a 94 OPS+.
2008 — Innings at third base (256), errors (2 — both throwing), fielding percentage (.971), revised zone rating (.707), balls fielded outside of zone (3).
As a 3B, Harris batted .296, 1 HR, 14 RBI and a 133 OPS+.
A LOOK AT THE ALTERNATIVES
2008 (with Cleveland) — Innings at third base (635), errors (5 throwing, 7 fielding), fielding percentage (.938), revised zone rating (.688), balls fielded outside of zone (11).
2008 (with Dodgers) — Innings at third base (469), errors (0 throwing, 2 fielding), fielding percentage (.985), revised zone rating (.720), balls fielded outside of zone (16).
As a 3B, Blake batted .275 with 16 HR, 68 RBI and a 105 OPS+.
The Twins offered Blake a two-year, deal with an option for 2011 before he signed his three-year, $17.5 million deal with the Dodgers. He turned 35 in August. His defensive performance improved after getting traded from Cleveland to the Dodgers last season, but logic says his range will decrease with age.
2006 (with Tampa Bay) — Innings at third base (274), errors (1 throwing, 4 fielding), fielding percentage (.940), revised zone rating (.590), balls fielded outside of zone (11).
2007 (with Tampa Bay) — Innings at third base (254), errors (0 throwing, 4 fielding), fielding percentage (.938), revised zone rating (.643), balls fielded outside of zone (11).
2007 (with Houston) — Innings at third base (392), errors (2 throwing, 1 fielding), fielding percentage (.976), revised zone rating (.710), balls fielded outside of zone (15).
2008 (with Houston) — Innings at third base (652), errors (3 throwing, 3 fielding), fielding percentage (.969), revised zone rating (.732), balls fielded outside of zone (25).
As a 3B in 2008, Wigginton batted .265 with 11 HR, 31 RBI and a 108 OPS+.
Wigginton, 31, had a good year all-around with Houston last season, but it’s notable how much his defensive numbers improved after he moved from the artificial surface in Tampa Bay to the natural grass in Houston.
Though Wigginton does a nice job minimizing errors, scouts are not high on his range or his arm. A point worth noting: Cleveland needs a third baseman, and they’re not pursuing him any harder than the Twins.
2007 — Innings at third base (1,319), errors (9 throwing, 4 fielding), fielding percentage (.963), revised zone rating (.613), balls fielded outside of zone (40).
2008 — Innings at third base (797), errors (5 throwing, 4 fielding), fielding percentage (.964), revised zone rating (.699), balls fielded outside of zone (27).
As a 3B in 2008, Atkins batted .307 with 14 HR, 55 RBI and a 112 OPS+.
The Twins have talked to the Rockies about Atkins, but Colorado has asked for Kevin Slowey, Denard Span and a prospect. Don’t worry, won’t happen. Atkins’ offensive numbers are suspect outside of Coors Field, and he’s no stalwart defensively.
2007 — Innings at third base (1,279), errors (12 throwing, 6 fielding), fielding percentage (.958), revised zone rating (.668), balls fielded outside of zone (64).2008 — Innings at third base (1,208), errors (4 throwing, 10 fielding), fielding percentage (.964), revised zone rating (.700), balls fielded outside of zone (78).
As a 3B in 2008, Beltre batted .269 with 23 HR, 71 RBI and a 102 OPS+.
Your eyes might be glazing over right now, with all these numbers, but check out how many balls Beltre gets to outside the zone.
The Twins would love to trade for this guy. As Gardenhire would say, “He’s the whole package.” Beltre has won Gold Gloves each of the past two seasons. But he also has the Twins on his no-trade list, so I just don’t see it happening.
2008 — Innings at third base (114), errors (1 throwing, 1 fielding), fielding percentage (.944), revised zone rating (.759), balls fielded outside of zone (6).
2007 — Innings at third base (287), errors (2 throwing, 2 fielding), fielding percentage (.958), revised zone rating (.761), balls fielded outside of zone (10).
As a 3B in 2008, DeRosa batted .239/.345 OBP/.630 SLG with 5 HR, 13 RBI and a 147 OPS+.
The Twins have had conversations with the Cubs about DeRosa, though La Velle is hearing it’s less and less likely the teams will have a match. DeRosa’s primary position has been second base, though he’s very versatile. He could help the Twins, but it’s tough to say how he’d be as an everyday third baseman, when the sample size is so small.
MY CONCLUSION
I think the best thing the Twins could do is trade for Beltre or Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy, but it doesn’t look like either move will happen. When teams are asking for Slowey, Span and a prospect (or packages like that), I’d bow out of the trade market, too.
I thought Blake would have been worth the investment, but people from other teams have told me the Twins were wise not to guarantee a third year.
The more I look at this, the more I think the Harris and Buscher combination can work, especially since it’s possible a prospect such as Danny Valencia, Luke Hughes or Trevor Plouffe (if he’s converted from shortstop to third base) could be knocking on the door by mid-season.
I keep coming back to this, but Harris batted .300/.362 OBP/.465 SLG after June 17 (that’s against righties and lefties). Buscher struggled against lefties but batted .316/.362/.437 against righties.
In both cases, the defense is a work in progress, but perhaps it’ll be healthy that neither of them has to say, “OK, I’m the guy here. I’ve got to get it done.” This seemed to work against Cuddyer in 2005, Punto in 2007 and Lamb in 2008.
If the Harris/Buscher combination doesn’t work, Gardenhire can “ad lib,” as he likes to say, bringing Matt Tolbert off the bench to play shortstop and moving Punto to third. After all, the Twins have had moving parts there, with varying success, ever since Corey Koskie left as a free agent after the 2004 season.
Note: Thanks for bearing with me through another long post. Happy Holidays. Also, if you’re on Facebook, click here to see a new way to follow the Star Tribune’s sports coverage.
260 Responses to "Twins need a third baseman who can play defense, too"
Thank you for the informative post Joe. Happy Holidays to you & your family. 
Joe,
excellent analysis.
that said, the conclusion:
the more I think the Harris and Buscher combination can work
is not consistent with the premise:
Fielding percentage: Unacceptable (Cuddyer’s .942 and Batista’s .954). Acceptable (Punto’s .962).
Errors: Unacceptable (Cuddyer’s one error for every 54 innings). Acceptable (Punto’s one error for every 85 innings).
Revised zone rating: Unacceptable (Batista’s .652). Acceptable (Punto’s .773).
Buscher’s fielding percentage (.938 - lower that your 2 unacceptables, Cuddyer and Batista), errors (1 every 52 innings, lower than Cuddyer) and RZR (.688 - lower than Cuddyer) should be also unacceptable, based on your premise 
Harris could be a compromise, that’s about it…
I still think that they should go after Wigginton (maybe they are waiting)…
Happy Holidays!
Don’t worry the excuse for not signing free agents the next three years will be “We need to sign our own first.” Pohlad has all the fans suckered…
Wow, another terrific blog Joe. I enjoyed it a great deal and need some additional time to absorb it all before commenting further.
And here is another thing… Let’s say you are going with a platoon. Who do you want to be your platoon lefty:
Player A: .250/.342/.583, .955 FP, 1 err/69 inn, .773 RZR
Player B: .294/.340/.390, .938 FP, 1 err/52 inn, .688 RZR
Player B is Buscher. Player A signed a 1 year $1.4 mil contract with the Mariners (Russell Branyan)…
If they’re not going to push for a Beltre or Hardy deal, I think the best move would be to sign Joe Crede to some kind of incentive-laden deal. Something like a low base salary with big bonuses kicking in for enough games played or at bats. If his back is okay, he’s one of the top 5 defensive third basemen in the league, and he has legitimate 25-30 HR power. If he continues to struggle physically, then you still have Harris/Buscher as a fallback option.
Great blog Joe and Happy Holidays. I have been all over the map on this topic. The platoon would probably work for awhile…but the big thing that would really help this team is a bat to support Morneau in the lineup. It appears that Beltre could do both, but not for Span AND Slowey.
Finally someone understands …
Great work Joe … Congrats on the baby!
alot or wasted time and ink even writing about cuddyer, batista, lamb whos gone, punto, all of whom will not get near 3rd base for the twins…all thankfully past history and should just be left alone….the truth is you cant discuss trading for beltre or anyone of those guys unless you are willing to give up slowey and then some…so forget that direction totally….we either sign a blake, who its now too late for or a wigginton, whom we can still get or we just say to hell with it and go with what we got…its pretty simple people…..which brings us back to this garbage about how wigginton is a defensive liability…..well i for one am willing to take that chance, because he gives us another area we need very badly and thats homeruns….its getting frustrating reading all these articles that really say the same damn thing every day….unfortunately there arent alot of avenues to choose from for this particular problem this year, but thats the way it is– so lets stop trying to intelectulize this situation way beyond any need and get the damn deal done…stop all the nonsense and lets start using some common sense….sign a player that can add some pop to this lineup and lets go play ball…this is not that difficult to figure out—stop all the stats and splits and this absolute overdose of numbers and get down to the signature on the dotted line…the yankess sure know how to get things done i guess…jesus, i cant wait to watch them lose…its going to be fun as hell to watch them go down, which i still think they will, regardless how many millions they sign…..the baseball gods are watching…..come on bill smith, its not too late for a christmas surprise….wigginton fan club starts here…
I know Harris’ .899OPS as a 3B last year is probably a fluke, but I’d like to make sure it wasn’t before giving up on him. His minor league numbers look like someone capable of an .800OPS in MLB if given a chance.
thrylos -
Branyan has a career .946 fielding percentage at 3B. He only had 132 at bats last year, and his numbers were higher than his career averages, even though he is 32 years old. Branyan will probably hit better than Buscher next year, but I can’t imagine his defense is much of an upgrade over Buscher at all. In fact, if the Twins would have signed Branyan, I imagine there would be outrage on the boards about how it is business as usual with the team, signing terrible free agents…
sawdustking,
I hear you, but you have to realize the context here. This team’s manager refused to play Harris at 3rd in September despite his .878 OPS for the month. Instead he went with Buscher who produced a .578 OPS in September…
And he got an extension that most people thought was well deserved.
As long as Buscher is on the team and Gardy is the manager, Harris will not see much playing time.
Pete D,
Look at the revised zone ratings…
Great read for a slow offseason. Where’s Luis Rodriguez and Terry Tiffee?
I still think they should stick Cuddyer at 3rd permanently and live or die with him there. In terms of his defense he has nowhere to go but up. They’d just have to be patient and stick with him. Never happen though. Too bad Cuddyer is such a mental wimp.
Joe -
Nice post. Very informative.
One problem exists with your philosophy, though. That we’ve already signed Punto. And, no matter how many people want to make excuses for his past poor play, the team simply doesn’t win when he has over 330 ABs in a season. He’s not an everyday player, and there’s no way, at 31, that they will make him an everyday player. He might hit .225 this year playing every day. And that’s a waste.
Therefore, you NEED to add something at 3B, or you have the same ineptness on the left side of the infield that you had last year.
I have to laugh at how hard the Twins came out and how badly they’ve fizzled this off-season. When it started, everyone from Billy to Gardy to Morneau was saying that the were going to upgrade the left side of the infield and look to win a championship. Now, they’re stuffing this crap down our throat like settling for Punto, Harris, and Buscher is a good thing.
Joe, wrap it any way you want, but this has been a dismal, pointless, inept off-season on the Twins part.
BTW: I just heard that with all the slick PR spin that’s incessantly churned out by the Twins camp these days, Al Franken is thinking about hiring Dave St. Peter and Billy Smith for his next campaign.
If you buy your analysis, you can’t buy your conclusion, as Thylos says. Te conclusion I draw is they have to get better defensively at third than Harris and Buscher. The only viable alternative right now is DeRosa, who would be Punto like in the filed over there but much better with the bat than Punto. So, what ever happened to the DeRosa deal?
Very good analysis Joe. I agree the best for this team would be Hardy, followed by Beltre. Unfortunately, it would cost us too much in players and/or cash to get either…so a Harris-Buscher platoon is the best option right now.
Even though that’s not overly exciting, I think Joe makes a good point that with a platoon situation neither will feel the pressure of being “the guy” … I think Joe’s right, being the guy hurt Punto, Lamb, etc. Perhaps either Harris or Buscher will emerge over time as a solid option and not feel the pressure. If not…I do think others will emerge from the minor league system.
The question is, will this all happen soon enough? This team has a window with the core players to peak over the next couple years. You can’t have too many critical positions in the development phase to realistically contend and get past the first round of the playoffs - especially with the Yanks re-loading the talent again.
I think we are shy 3 legitimate players to make a playoff push (3B, SS and a power hitting LF). IMO at least 2 of those will have to be solved in the next 2 years for this team to have a realistic ALCS or WS showing.
Will be interesting to see if this team, that is known as one of the better in developing talent internally, can crank out a enough surprise talent this coming year…
Great post and analysis Joe C! Simple factoid of the day seemingly is thus: Twins needs a 3B, or a SS, and no matches are in the offing, whether by FA or trade. Too bad for us. Me, personally, still like the idea of pursuing O Hudson, and trying Casilla at SS. I know how badly the Twins want their 1st round drafts though. All the years of boffo success with 1st round picks demonstrate how crucial they are to building your team of the future. We really could afford to give up one….just once………
After all the moaning, groaning and griping is done, it comes down to this: the Twins are saving 3B for Valencia or Hughes in 2010. Any trade will be for a shortstop and any free agent is simply a place holder for a year. Twins brass have made up their minds, one of these two ‘prospects’ is going to be handed the 3B job when Target field opens. No questions asked!
The whole offseason is now moot that Gardy has already named Punto his starting SS. That sets the team back at least 2 months before they reassess and put a better team on the field. Some old story the past 3 years. It would be nice to start with the best possible team out of spring training instead of going with shots in the dark or proven offensive failures. Anyone that thinks Punto is going to remain a viable starter for 162 games is kidding themselves.
Please, Santa, bring us a young, switch hitting, solid fielding 3rd baseman with some pop in his bat. Is that asking too much?
The Twins want a third baseman that can play defense too, but they are looking at Derosa, and possibly keeping the Buscher and Harris platoon? I am in no way a stat geek, but from what I have seen those are in no way acceptable defensive options for a team that wants an upgrade at that position. I think that you and Lavelle do a great job of relaying information and keeping the fans informed, but to me anyways this is starting to get old. Sorry if it sounds like I’m killing the messanger.
Pitching (lack of bullpen help) should be the Twins main priority. We can win games without hitting 300 Home Runs each yeah, but we can not and will not even be .500 in 2009 if we can not pick up as many arms as we can before spring training. Wish Neshak could pitch, oh well go Twins
Don’t apologize for long posts, Joe C. I like them better that way. It gives me good insight that is hard to find anywhere else. Keep up the good work!
Brendan Harris, if given the 3B job full-time, (no platoon) in Spring Training will get better and better defensively with time.
He has a strong arm, and though not agile enough to be a MLB shortstop, he is agile enough to become a good 3B, if given the reps.
Buscher can play against the NASTY RHP’s; but otherwise, just give the job to Harris and go fix the @#$%@#$% bullpen!
HAHAHAHAHA… Got to love the Yankees. They spend $423 mil and they’re still not done. The richest owner in baseball, cheap ass Pohlad, won’t spend and extra $2m to get Blake. And I don’t want to hear about overpaying, small market team bullcrap. If there is a hell for cheap pricks, Pohlad will be king.
Got to love the Yankees. They spend $423 mil and they’re still not done. The richest owner in baseball, cheap ass Pohlad, won’t spend and extra $2m to get Blake. And I don’t want to hear about overpaying, small market team bullcrap. If there is a hell for cheap pricks, Pohlad will be king.
LOL… Got to love the Yankees. They spend $423 mil and they’re still not done. The richest owner in baseball, cheap ass Pohlad, won’t spend and extra $2m to get Blake. And I don’t want to hear about overpaying, small market team bullcrap. If there is a hell for cheap pricks, Pohlad will be king.
Joe,
This is easily your best blog ever. Hell this might be the single best baseball blog I’ve read. I am truly impressed. The way things are broken down… the time, the thought, the range and breadth of this blog are absolutely outstanding.
This is a great Xmas present for all Twins fan bloggers, and commenters around the sports world.
My god, I feel almost dizzy… Being this nice almost hurts.
I would like to have seen Joe Crede and Kevin Kouzmanoff’s numbers in that mix… well at least their names…
Joe Crede would be a perfect one year 3 million guarenteed with 6-7 million in reachable incentives… plate appearances, games, team wins… Gold Glove, All Star, MVP votes… those typical incentives that net players 25-50K each… makes his higher…
Joe Crede in 145 games in 2009 batting 5th in this lineup could net him a gold glove nomination… and 32 homers, 120 RBI and a shot at a world series…
Kouzmanoff seems to have dropped off the radar since the Padres traded Khalil Greene, but I think if we put together a deal that includes Tolbert, Young, and Perkins we should be able to get Kouzmanoff, and a AAA calibur reliever that we might be able to plug in. Young would play RF (their RF moves to LF), Headly moves to 3rd base, Tolbert plays SS with the young kid they’ve got… Perkins comes in as the team’s 4th starter. seems pretty solid to me.
Pete, Jim, whatever,
After reading your crappy posts, I am sure you will be in that Hell also, but you won’t be King.
You will just be another another ***hole!
While I hate Pohlad, and I don’t want to have him see this stadium finished… there is no way that he’s going to be the king of hell. Ronald Reagan is already dead, and he’s just holding the reigns for Bush JR… Pohlad isn’t just a cheap creep, and his family do a lot of great philanthropical endeavours around the community… so while I am pissed at him still for demanding a stadium, for threatening to move the team, for threatening to contract the team, and for never bringing in quality talent via free agency (last great FA signing for this team was Paul Molitor!)… The Pohlad family has done a lot of good things… so I don’t think that they will be in hell simply because we are angry Twins fans… Pete… not cool.
So let me get this straight. We need to upgrade the offense to get a hitter to protect Morneau.
We currently have below average fielders and average hitters who are cheap.
but defense is important that is why we are not upgrading the offense with someone like Wigginton but we are also not doing anything to upgrade our current defense either.
Crede can field but is injury prone and should be cheap. That is the best cheap will get you. Someone with upside but some other risk like injury.
If the Brewers don’t want to trade Hardy… then what about Weeks or their SS prospect in the minors that is so good. What other options can be had? Kouz has over an .800 ops away from Petco Park. He would be a solid bat.
I don’t buy the arguement that status quo might be the best way go. Maybe the cheapest.
Why couldn’t we just go status quo with Santana last year? Because he wasn’t the cheapest.
From what I am seeing I just assume the state take away the new ballpark and use the tax dollars for something else.
great post Joe! thanks.
As for those who keep talking about Joe Crede, just how long do you think it would take before his back gives out playing on the turf?? Ozzie wouldn’t even let him play last year on turf, why do you think he would last a full season here?
Kakuchka…
that’s why you sign him to an incentive laiden contract.
If he can’t play he doesn’t get paid.
If he plays 100 games he will put up more offense than our entire 3rd base plattoon of baffoons did last year!
Still think Wiggy would be worth the investment. That said, trading a starting pitcher and prospects for Hardy is probably not “too much.” The guy is only 26 years old and has hit 50 HR’s the past 2 years. He could play 3B or SS and is not going to cost an arm and a leg in salary right away. We are supposedly “so deep” in pitching all of the time but can’t seem to develop hitting, why not trade some of that pitching for a good, young bat.
BC,
Not cool. Keep your idiotic political opinions to yourself. This is a baseball blog.
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First off, I think the defensive problems the team experienced last year were more growing pains than any kind of trend that we need to worry about next year.
Are far as 3rd base goes …
The difference in defense between Wiggy and Harris seems to be minimal. I also think that his bat more than makes up for that difference. Also keep in mind, adding his bat will probably also impact the players numbers around him as well. Bat him fifth between Morneau and Kubel and not only will we see an increase in poduction from 3rd base, but Morneau will probably also start seeing better pitches to swing at as well. It would be nice to see him hit 30+ homers again.
I still say Wiggy is the way to go right now. Not only that, I’m not buying the Twins assessment of his defense either. I think they are still very interested in Wiggy. I mean, really … they’re talking trade one week, knowing full well that he’s arbitration eligible and would probably get about 7 million, then the next week when they can get him without giving up any players, he’s suddenly a defensive liability? I’m not buying it.
I think they’re posturing for a better deal. They know the deal they want to make with him and they’re waiting until they can get it. I think the bigger issue is the years and not the dollars as well. With two infield prospects moving up fast in the pipeline, they probably don’t want too long of a deal. The Twins are also in a better position financially to deal than the other interested teams as well.
It ain’t over until it’s over.
Jake my man! We’re on the same page brother. I’ve been saying for weeks now that Twins can afford to give up pitching + to get JJ..imagine him here for next 5yrs..all during his prime.. and sign Wiggy..you only missed one thing..sign Pat the Bat as the final piece of the puzzle..buh bye Cuddy, Punto, Slowey and hello WS..and NOT just for one year..this would be a team set up to make a run at least through the end of Nathan’s deal and we would continue building from within in the meantime to not allow a letdown later. Why is this so hard? Thx Jake..I knew there were some clear thinkers out there. No money excuses..everyday Yankees are getting better..Twins need to improve now or it won’t be enough.
Thanks Joe for a great presentation. Some of us are much more comfortable than others and personally, I look forward to this combo next season as I suspect Buscher will show more power at the plate and improve defensively to be an average third baseman.
Wishing you a wonderful Christmas as your family expands…this has to be very exciting.
The Harris/Buscher combination is a good one at third base.
Every time I hear people whine about Wigginton or Beltre, it makes me think that they don’t watch any baseball at all. Both would be a letdown by comparison to what we have now.
As for Blake, he would fit in, but no improvement.
Give the best management in the game credit for not pulling a Yankee style panic. By midseason either the guys holding the job perform well, or we will bring someone up who is ready. Period.
The Harris/Buscher combination is a good one at third base.
Every time I hear people whine about Wigginton or Beltre, it makes me think that they don’t watch any baseball at all.
I don’t know what games you might be watching, but for sure you are not watching Buscher on the field and saying he is “a good one” (since he will take about 75% of the PAs as a lefty in a platoon)
Right on thrylos….and I like Bushy and Harris, even Punto..in there proper roles! Bench utility guys!
And unlike others, I’ve never been a Yankee hater/basher..jealousy and envy are at the top of my worst character qualities, so unbecoming. If you’re going to worry about the Yankees, it better be in the sense that they will be tough and if the Twins want to get to the WS (I know that isn’t always the goal with Ownership and many fans), they need to upgrade..and not just a little for 09. The money is there, the player matchups are there..no reason or excuse not to fine tune this good young team into a Championship team for the next several years. It’s right there for the taking.
Hey, BC, did you rush to get that bilge into this blog at ten minutes to midnight so you wouldn’t have to make such a hateful post on Christmas Eve? Unfortunately, you’re right on the nose about Crede, which just makes the rest of your political spew even more juvenile.
I told you so. I told everyone on this blog that LNP was the big signing. I wouldn’t be surprised if they only sign 1 FA MR POS (piece of sh!t = pos)with an ERA of 4.25-.50 out of a scrap heap of MLB leftovers one - two weeks prior to the season starting. But in good spirits for the hollidays even I can be nice for one simple comment. Mary Christmas Joe, LaVelle and a merry Christmas to the Cheap creep Scrooge Pohlad family oh yeah and one more thing go foreclose on some more peoples businesses.
Nothing says Merry Christmas more than stealing a stadium on the peoples tax dollar next foreclosing on people’s homes followed by getting the fans a team on the “Cheap”
Why isn’t Tolbert part of the equation in the infield? Casilla, Punto, and Tolbert lack power but are headaches on the basepaths if they don’t get their hands stepped on. Another plus, aren’t they all slick fielders with range?
An upgrade at 3b would be great, but the only options with trades are to leave holes at other positions - - not worth it. The trade for DY left us a hole at ss and lessed our pitching depth. The only way to make a trade work is to trade from depth.
Thank you for talking about what I have always been most concerned about…defense. It seems baseball has lost touch with how valuable catching the ball is. Great players today are judged by offensive numbers only. Roger Maris is only remembered for 61 home runs. He was a great 5 tool player. I wonder how many of todays fans even know what a 5 tool player is? I want Twins players to play all aspects of the game, thats what makes them special and that is what allows them to compete. I am ready to go forward with Harris and Buscher…I like the way Harris improved and how well he seemed to hit in the clutch.
Acemaker
jimmy take a nerv pill, or a strong drink!
Thanks Joe for the analysis. As for Twins home-grown prospects filling the fielding voids, none picked to the Arizona Fall League made stand-out performances. I love an underdog, but come on…rooting for the best minor league team in major league baseball is exhausting.
As for Pohlad, he is better than Griffith was to his teams’ fans. Griffith sold his talent like my all-time favorite Rod Carew for cash. At least Pohlad gets a pack of hungry dogs for his talent.
All the Pohlad back-patting from the likes of Sid ignores the fact that the Twin’s franchise has eclipsed any “losses” from payrolls that exceed revenues. And, don’t forget, the nature of the big contract’s tax advantages makes salaries a deferred expense against the increase in franchise value that is inevitable.
I may be moving to NY, so I’ll keep you up on our prospects’ at Rochester.
GGG I am all done moaning and groaning. I just had to get it all out of my system. Happy Hollidays GGG. I don’t even know how good that tandem of players at 3rd will be. I hope really good. I want to be wrong. I want to win a WS title. I hope they win it this year. Yes defense is very important.
I really get tired of people bitching about Pohlad being the wealthiest owner in sports.
Most of don’t know the difference between net worth and liquid assests (cash).
While it is true that Pohlad has the highest net worth ($3.1B), his liquid assets are relatively low.
Pohlad owns (solely or in part) 10+ businesses. Forbes puts the net sum of these businesses at $3.1B. Since these are all separate entities, he can’t “rob Peter to pay Paul”. He can’t funnel profits from his Banking business into his Sports Franchise (at least not if he wants to stay out of jail).
He has to fund the Twins with the revenues generated by the Twins, take out a loan or use his personal wealth. It is unknown what his personal wealth is but it is significantly less than $3.1B.
Here are 2 reasons why the Yankees can spend significantly more than the Twins:
1. The Average Ticket price and attendance for the Yankees is double that of the Twins (4 times the revenue).
2. The Yankees own there own Broadcast Network which adds revenue. The Twins tried to start their own network a couple of years ago and if flopped as no one would pick it up.
Why all the harping on Uncle Carl? He’s in business to make money. He makes money. Good for him. It’s MLB that not only permits, but revels in the gross inequities that see the NYY spend 1/2 billion on 3 players. MLB is a cartoon. It just so happens it’s a cartoon that generates lots of cash flow. Only certain people get the big chunks of the pie, and we’re not one of them. I dont blame Uncle Carl for that. I wish he’d suck it up and roll the dice now and then, but he didnt become a multi-billionaire by playing roulette with his own money. (Taxpayer funded stadiums for 2nd-tier quality teams notwithstanding).
When I read about our third base struggles since Koskie, I’m reminded that he wasn’t always a stellar defensive third baseman either.
It took some time and hard work to get him to the level of an above-average, hard-nosed, blue collar player that seemed to embody the “Twins way”.
I can’t help but wonder if the same investment of time and hard work might also yield similar results with Buscher who seems to have more typical third base offensive aptitude than other options discussed.
I realize we aren’t in the development mode we were in when Koskie had the time to develop. And despite the no-trade clause, money talks to the point that Beltre is gettable at the right price. That would certainly put the time on the cusp of serious World Series contention sooner.
However, I do like the idea of watching this young rotation mature into the deepest and most solid in the league ala Maddux, Smoltz, Glavin, etc. And disrupting that would be tough to take.
Bottom line, if a Beltre deal is possible for say, Buscher, Bonzer, and Young–go for it and pay him the money.
If not, go with what we’ve got and let’s get a couple of relievers. Hoffman?
That’s the real reason we came up short last year!
I would have been happy with a tandem of K-Rod and Nathan instead of a 3rd baseman. Next keep what we already have. When the Yankees were at there best a few years ago winning championships they had Jeff Nelson and then Rivera pitch. Now just imagine the Twins with K-Rod then Nathan pitching. Just an idea.
I wonder how many of todays fans even know what a 5 tool player is?
No wonder… The last 5 tool player to play for the Twins in his prime was Shane Mack
Great post Joe and i agree with the folks who think going with a Harris/Buscher platoon is better then throwing too much money at Wiggy or giving up Slowey and Span. Congrats on your baby as well. Merry Christmas to all.
thrylos 98 maybe you need to look at the roster…The Twins have several good 5 tool players right now. The concept doesn’t mean you have lead the league in any of the categories. 5 tool players are proficient in those areas… Joe Mauer is a great 5 tool player as is Denard Spahn…Shane Mack, how quickly we forget the likes of Kirby Puckett and Tori Hunter.
Now that I know who is not going to be the Twins new 3rd baseman and who is going to be the Twins 3rd baseman(s). Who does everyone think the Twins will begetting for a MR. My guess is no FA’s. I think Humber or Mulvey will be called up and take over cause it is affordable to do. Does anyone else have any ideas or think differently.
Mick Punto is good and he plays third base. Punto can run and hit better than anyone else in the big leagues. He can also pitch as a pitcher and throws fast balls they cannot hit or see. He can play as all star third base and hit cleanup for the team when he wants to. He will probably pitch most games next year for the Twins. Punto is entire team of the Twins and has baseball card.
“Mauer is a great 5 tool player”
Mauer doesn’t hit for power and is not fast. The rest that you named are for sure
Thanks for the hard work, Joe C. I appreciate it. However, the problem with a Harris/Buscher platoon is that the weaker (by far) defensive player will get the lion’s share of the playing time if a straight platoon is used. Since Buscher ranks in the “unacceptable” defensive category, I don’t see how this helps the Twins’s D. I recognize Wiggnington isn’t the second coming of Brooks Robinson, but he’s better than Buscher. Overall, he would be an improvement. Not as good as Beltre, but less expensive in dollars and players. It’s depressing to be talking about the merits (or lack thereof) of Wiggington while the Yankees reel in Texiera. Sigh.
a one year deal with incentives for Crede is the obvious way to go. I am guessing it’s plan B if they fail to get Hardy. Great post, Joe.
Mourneau is a 4 tool player. He lacks the speed part also
Oh, and Joe C, congratulations on the new baby. That is truly wonderful. Merry Christmas to all.
The Twins have several good 5 tool players right now
name one
btw,
Torri Hunter was not a five tool player:
he could not hit for average
Kirby Pucker was not a five tool player:
when he had power he did not have speed
when he has speed he did not have power
The only current potential 5 tool player in the roster is Delmon Young. (he needs to develop power)
Mick Punto is better player than Mauer. Mauer cannot play any infield position like Punto. Mauer cannot pitcher either. Punto can play all nine positions better than anyone in major league. He is better athletic than Mauer. Mauer is a sissy too. He is not like Punto.
Mauer is vastly overpaid considering Punto receive such a less amount of salary and is a much better all around player. Punto is probably the most valuable player on the Twins team due to his versatility. The Twins should consider putting Punto at a different position each day. That way he could play a different position every ten days and the fans would enjoy watching him. It would be a novelty for the fans who would greatly enjoy seeing the versatile Punto at work.
I think the Twins should consider trading Mauer, Morneau, Young, Span, Nathan and Kubel in order to obtain more pitching. The Twins could get some good relief pitching talent and maybe another starter or two. The Twins have alot of good talent in the minor league system who could play the positions of the traded players. Also, the Twins could probably get alot of money for some of the players. Punto can play any position and therefore, free up those guys for trades, which would greatly help the Twins organization financially for the future since the cost of keeping those players is too expensive.
Delmon Young can’t run well enough to ever be a 5-tool player.
Shane Mack and Denard Span lacked/lack arm strength.
Potentially Gomez is the guy, if he learns to hit - probably not likely.
In the minors its Aaron Hicks - if he can succressfully hit MLB pitching.
I think the Twins should trade the playes they can get the most money for in order to strengthen the organization financially. The plays that should be trade are Morneau, Mauer, Young, Nathan, Span, Kubel, Crain, Buscher, Casilla and Harris. The organization could obtain alot of money for them. The Twins organization has enought outstanding young talent in the minor leagues to be competitive in the majors without having to pay the ridiculous salaries that the players are demanding.
The Twins would still have an outstanding young core to audition at the major league level including: Revere, Hicks, Gomez, Morales, Hughes, Valencia and others. Building a huge supply of money is the key to any good business.
I think Brian Buscher is our 3rd baseman of the future. He needs to get LOTS of extra fielding practice to cut down on the errors. But I believe his fielding will improve, and his hitting is nearly there now.
Offensively, Luke Hughes and Danny Valencia appear to be nearly ready, but defensively, they are a long ways from being ready. Trevor plouffe appears nearly ready defensively, but not offensively.
Buscher is the closest thing to a total package 3B the Twins have right now, or waiting in the wings, with defense, power, and hitting. Harris is next closest. A tandem of the two could prove very effective. But Buscher should get more ABs.
Yes, we could trade for a 3B, but let’s face it, we have a very effective starting pitching crew right now. Let’s not mess with that. If we could get Beltre for a starting pitcher, fine. he would upgrade our hitting and fielding. But to give up multiple players or prospects for even Beltre would be to gut our present team. Signing a free agent would be fine, but thee are few out there that are acceptable options.
The bottom line is this: Yes you could gut the team to get a Beltre, but then you would need another SP, OF, and whatever else you trade away.
Buscher/Harris costs us nothing – no added payroll, no lost players. And they have shown they can be an effective combo. I think Buscher will emerge as the best option LT - offensively and defensively. If given the chance, in two years he could be among the best 3B out there.
why would they trade for jj hardy so he could sit on the bench with young watching nicky play short and cuddy play rf?
strengthen the bench i guess.
So Steve, Wally, Jack and Micky have you all forgotten
1. Cuddyer you must trade also he is making $$$ if you are going to trade those all those players you named for cash
2. Another thing to remember is don’t forget Punto is the most athletic player the Twins have.
I never post comments, I barely ever read them, but I had to post to say that this was an awesome article. I love reading highly technical baseball talk, and it’s refreshing to hear about it now in late December when Spring Trainging is only 3 months away. Thanks.
The reason the Twins don’t have to spend much money is because they are in the weakest division in the AL.
What is all this trade Mauer and Morneau talk? Oh, and Punto is better than Mauer? Punto can barely hit 85mph fastballs. Yeah, trade the faces of the franchise, there’s a good idea. I’m sure that will happen right after the Cardinals trade Pujols and the Yankess trade Jeter. Those guys will not and should never be traded, they are 2 of the best players the Twins have ever had. Could you imagine if the Twins traded the hometown boy?? Holy cow that would be a mess.
Lee I agree a little, but Buscher has yet to show he consistently can hit for a full season in the majors, and never really showed it in the minors. Hitting .290 with 10 HR’s in the minors doesn’t really get you noticed. If Matt Moses wouldn’t have fell on his face, buscher would’ve been out of this organization a LONG time ago.
“The bottom line is this: Yes you could gut the team to get a Beltre, but then you would need another SP, OF, and whatever else you trade away.”
We didn’t have to get rid of anyone. We could have gotten Blake for nothing but a contract.
So enough of that rant. As I have said on here before, take a shot on Crede. He has proven to have a ton of upside, and he will probably come cheap. If not, get Wiggington. He will at least hit the ball out of the park, and as Joe’s sabermetrics show, he wouldn’t be much of a difference between Buscher/Harris. Plus that idea is boring. I’m sick of watching guys hit .290 with 8 home runs. Remember this- the Twins were the only team in the MLB to hit .300 with runners in scoring position. The chances of that happening again are not very good.
joe - how much did bill smith pay you to write this crap to try and make his stubborness look better in the public’s eye? bill smith is going to be the death of this current twins team. fire bill smith!!
Forget Crede, Pohlad is too busy forclosing on peoples homes to pad his billions…
bottom line as garenhire alludes to beltre, “he got the whole package”; so without the whole package you have at best the Batista’s, Punto’s, Buschers’; meaning that at best you have a player who is less than adequate in most areas, and indefensively horrid in others. you got your new whole package toy ballpark Twins, now fill it with players who are the whole package.
did someone say pohlad’s banks are foreclosing on nursing homes?
“If given the chance, in two years he (Buscher) could be among the best 3B out there.”
Good God man, in two years Buscher wouldn’t even be among the best 3B in your Wednesday night slowpitch church league.
USAFChief… LOL
Pohlad’s banks are closing on peoples homes of Hennepin county who’s taxes are paying for his new ball park for him to make even more $$$ on.
I wish Cuddy would hike up his skirt and go back to third. That way the Twins would put your nine best players on the field everyday.
USAFChief LOL now that was funny.
Blah, you’re right… Pohlad is the Anti-Christ of baseball and forclosures…
Thrylos stole my point, one that I’ve been making about Harris for a few weeks now.
Joe doesn’t mention how Gardy played Harris less and less as the year went on. Why does anyone think that will change next year? Harris only hit better, the less he played. Showing his stats, w/o showing how few ABs he had is very misleading. Clearly, Gardy does not like something about the way Harris plays. That means Buscher will get most of the playing time.
Oh, and Buscher is not the future. He’s already 28, I believe. This is what you are going to get.
Happy holidays to everyone, and congrats to Joe and his wife.
Funny how one part of the post is missed, the D is getting worse and worse over the last decade….
Isn’t there a blog dedicated to whiney piss-ants lke Blah, Ken and jimmybee?
Forget about Pohlad bailing you out.
Just go stand in line for your Government bailout, and bitch that its not enough and not on time!
Ken not only that but I hear Pohlad forecloses on anything he can. Men, Women, Grandparents and children. Throws em out on the streets in sub zero degree temperatures. He changes the locks himself. He has a business that builds missles and weapons of mass destruction then ships them over ala Lord of War. That could just be a rumor though
Blah, I get your humor, but Pohlad made his money screwing others, period.
Yankees sign Sabathia, Burnett, and Texiara,,, this is obscene, and I do not want the Twins to be like that. but cheap carl pohlad is the total opposite extreme, and all we can do is have blogs about our stellar defense,,, sickening
I want to trade anything away that costs more then minimum wage. I’m a homer. Where is my kool aid. Gulp, gulp
gardy had a good reason to start buscher down the stretch (he’s his favorite)
buscher 16 gms started, .222/.333/.244
harris gms st. 8, .324/.419/.459
it should be clear that for some reason gardy doesn’t like harris even with far better #’s and a much better fielder (which he says is sooo important) buscher started twice as many gms as harris in sept/oct when the season was on the line.
After work I will be going to Holliday gas station and filling up my 100 oz Nascar cup with Cherry Red kool aid slushy and gulp, gulp, gulp all the way home. I love Carl Pohlad and want a Fat head of him on my bedroom wall.
Brian Fart… lol lol lol
Yankees sign Sabathia, Burnett, and Texiara,,, this is obscene, and I do not want the Twins to be like that. but cheap carl pohlad is the total opposite extreme, and all we can do is have blogs about a half way decent defensive third baseman? Pohlad take the countys money, then forecloses on homes in the county, and oh yea, along the way contributes to Obamas campaign. Pohlad is our modern day miserable scrooge, and its time to break out the pohlad scrooge analogy I did last year.
First off, people in this town have been brain washed way too long by management. In order to make a trade happen you are going to have to give up tallent. Everyone expects us to be able to unload guys like Bushcer, Punto, Harris, to get guys like Beltre, Atkins and Hardy. It isn’t going to happen. If you are in the belief that this team needs to get deeper on the left side it is going to cost us. If you are not willing to loose a starting pitcher, one of our out fielders or some of our (minor league talent?) then it isn’t going to happen. Secondly we all know this team isn’t going to spend money so aquiring depth through the free agent market is also not an option. Even guys like Blake, Furcal and Cabrera are way out of our price range. I personnaly would love to see this team go after Hardy, but I really don’t think Milwaukee is interested in getting rid of him. Go to the Milwaukee Journal and read their blogs, they look at him as one of their top two or three guys on that team. It would be like us getting rid of Mauer. Beltre, doesn’t overly excite me. I would take him but not my first choice. Atkins would be nice but if we are that close with Valencia and Hughes I don’t know that Beltre or Atkins make sense. Wiggington probably one of the last choices on my list. If we are going that route I would take a gamble on Crede. If healthy he could be a good 2 year filler. Kouz could be alright if we could move him to short when one of our 3 super stud third base prospect are ready?
We have the money and assests to make a big move don’t let management fool you.
I agree with Brain Fart. I think we must
Hardy will be a Twin. List the Brewers five starters. As of now I’m the #5 starter for them.
Brewers have to get a pitcher. Go with Harris/Buscher at third. JJ at short and have Punto as the superutility which is how he plays best.
Don’t forget Pohlad’s son Bill used millions to make the h-o-m-o film Brokeback Mountain to further the gay agenda in our schools, businesses, colleges and workplaces…
I think we must embrace Mr Pohlad and rally behind there money first performance second mentallity. I love Kool Aid so much I am sucking on a packet of it right now. I don’t even need any water though it is a bit tart. Gulp, gulp, gulp. I wonder if Mr Pohlad would employ me to foreclose on homes.
Good point Mike & Ken…
From this day forward the Twin fans will now known as Brokeback Fans since Carl is constantly screwing us…
Nice call Nick. I like that
Wow!!! Reading these blogs, a lot of people have started to see the value in going with what they’ve got. I’ve felt that way all along.
Maybe it would be smart to use whatever $ they can come up with to sign some of the young core to long term contracts. It’s not my money, but waiting has cost them dearly in the past. What’s Joe going to get after his current contract is up if they let him become a free agent? I’d feel a lot better if they could sign him soon for a longer term. And how about Baker? We’ll see.
Merry Christmas to all.
HAVE FUN !!! GO TWINS !!!
Brain Fart,
That would be your first real job, but you aren’t smart enough to get it.
You will have to go back to your only skill - Blowing elephants for a nickel a herd.
Brian - You know allot about blowing because you are always on your knees serving Carl…
Somedays I take baths in Cherry Red Kool Aid and it turns my skin red. I then say to myself I feel like Mike Redman
Brain if I did that how would your mom pay for her home mortgage to CP
the best thing would be to trade for Beltre or Hardy? If your going to discuss things that have 0% chance of happening why don’t you just say we should trade for A-Rod? that won’t happen either….
Gardenhire is an idiot. Enough said
Watching the Twins and their exciting offense is like watching golf… putt, putt, putt, putt, putt, eventually one makes it home…
I think, now that we have the “greatest defensive shortstop ever” (according to multiple posts I have seen on this site..I don’t really agree) we can live with the limited range that Harris has at 3rd base. We need to play Harris over Buscher next year.
Hughes is not an answer. He does not have the power to justify his high strike out rate. Valencia perhaps, but what did he do after his promotion or the fall league to justify such lofty assertions?
Derosa for Kubel is interesting but only if we were to sign a big righthanded bat (Burrell). It would balance the order, but of course it would cost $$$ and (fill in Carl joke here).
Crede could be a big risk-reward signing. Can Hinske still play 3B?
The Beltre no-trade list is simply a ploy to get the Twins to fork some extra-cash over. (fill in Carl joke here).
My predictions for next year….
The Twins will NOT trade for Wiggenton, Kouzmanoff, or Beltre…it won’t happen. These are the Twins we are talking about. Crede will not sign an incentive-laden contract to play for the Twins, when someone else will guarantee him more money. We will be left with Harris, Bucher, and Tolbert to play 3rd base next year. And Gardenhire will play Buscher 60% of the time, Harris 25% of the time, and Tolbert 15% of the time and we will not make the playoffs once again.
Yep, and Pohlad will laugh all the way to the bank again.. because the stands will be full of sheep wishing in one hand, craping in the other…
I would like to see the Twins play wth what they have right now. Except for I would like to see the bullpen addressed. I don’t think me moaning and groaning is going to get us a 3rd baseman either because I think we are out of the running for a good 3rd basemans services
jimmy bee - and if worms had machine guns birds wouldn’t fu*k with them…
“I never get nervous. Baseball consists of two things: hitting and pitching, and we’ve got both.”
Carl Pohlad quote
That quote must be after Carl was put on meds… because he is clueless to the current team…
5 tool players don’t have to lead the league in all 5 areas to be 5 tool players. Having a strong arm doesn’t mean you can throw out runners or even throw to the right base or hit the cut off man. Speed doesn’t mean you know how to take an extra base or not get thrown out stretching a single into a double. Most times good 5 tool players take pride in all areas and are better than average in all areas. It does not mean they have all-star ability in all 5. I wish you guys that keep talking about baseball like you actually know something about baseball actually did know something about baseball.
I think that a trade for J.J. Hardy would be great for this team. I just would not want to give up one of our top three starters for him and I am sure that will be what Milwaukee wants. I would love to have Beltre play third for us but not for just one year.
We could just wait until next year and sign DeRosa and Beltre. Or sign Beltre and make that trade for Hardy. We would then have one of the strongest left side of the infield in all of MLB!
Oh this is just soooooo wishful thinking!!
lets just pray that Delmon’s power numbers jump significantly (I have a feeling he wil hit 25+) and that Harris can adequately hold down 3rd. Then another reliever (or improvement from Crain) along with a full year of Liriano and we are talking playoffs. We have a chance and that is the most I can ask of the Pohlads. It is their money. The more money they make from their baseball operations, the more money they will spend, hopefully to resign their young pitchers and keep Mauer and Morneau. So buy your season ticket packages and enjoy the great game of baseball. Merry Christmas to all except Brian Cashman and the Steinbrenners who I hope have their ridicoulous contracts backfire on them.
Jeff…and I would like to sign A-rod to play 3rd base for us and pick up Albert Pujols to play 1st base and move Morneau to DH. Then I would maybe pick up a couple All-Star OFs and a couple All-Star closers.
All of this talk of signing significant free-agents is laughable, because the Twins will NOT sign anyone of substance this offseason, or next off season, or the next , or the next.
Slowey, Span, and a prospect would be a steal for JJ Hardy. Slowey is a #3 pitcher in most rotations. Span has upside but basically only was good for half a season. JJ Hardy is a huge bat and a legit starting shortstop (sorry Nick Punto). That trade would be advantage Twins and its not close.
As the Mark Teixeira free-agent negotiations go, so might go the market for Joe Mauer, who can become a free agent after the 2010 season. Teixeira, 28, is seeking a deal in excess of $20 million a season.
Mauer, 25, the Twins’ two-time batting champion and Gold Glove catcher, next season will be the Twins’ third-highest paid player at $10.5 million. He’ll make $12.5 million in 2010. People in the know say the Boston Red Sox already are salivating over Mauer, who would be only 27 as a free agent.
There have been no talks this winter about extending the St. Paul native’s contract, in part because Mauer’s value after last season is at a premium, and it’s uncertain whether the seismic downturn in the nation’s economy will affect baseball salaries a year from now. What is for sure is that the Mauer contract negotiations will be the biggest and most important in Twins history.
Imagine if Delmon Young moved his feet when balls were hit at him. He could have easily added another dozen or so errors. Official scorers never give errors if the player doesnt touch the ball. How sad is it that the Twins looked at Buscher and Harris and then looked at the rest of real 3rd basemen out there and decided, Yeah, I like what we got. Sad, just sad.
Ace,
Tools are not the same as skills - at least, not to scouts.
HS players are evaluated most often for their tools:
1) arm strength (even if they are throwing to the wrong base)
2) speed (even if they are over-aggressive baserunners)
3) fielding ability (even if they are raw)
4) hitting (even if their swings can be improved)
5) Power (even if they can’t hit HR’s off good pitching NOW)
Tools only project (often incorrectly)how skilled a player may become in those 5 areas.
Many 5-tool players have failed because they could not convert all their tools
into playing skills.
Maybe later, I can get confirmation from someone who “actually did know something about baseball”.
A
sane I do agree with you that GoGo is possibly going to be a 5 tool player
I forgot to add that I think this is one of Joe’s best blogs ever. Thanks Joe.
Add my kudos to Joe.
The hard work that went into this blog is obvious, and is very much appreciated.
This year actually could be the year the Twins sign a free agent. Other than the Yankees most everybody has been quiet.
There are dozens of quality players out there and because of the economy the vast majority of the clubs are playing poker with the free agents. They simply are waiting them out and calling their bluffs.
Contract length and value is going to come down significantly in the next two months. One year deals will be accepted when that’s the best offer they’ve received all winter.
Ty Wig is a prime example. I bet he signs for a one year deal.
I still want Hardy as that is a long term solution to a weakness but don’t be surprised if we sign one of the 3B that have been discussed for just one year.
count me among those whose Christmas wish is that Carl never gets to see our stadium open, fa la la la la, la la la la
Msujimi-I get your logic, but before the winter meetings Bill Smith quoted “The Twins have money to spend, we’re just trying to see where to spend it.” We have the money.
savvspy, I agree to a point. I’ll be honest on 2 things. 1. I think Slowey is a mini-Maddux in the making. Just a hunch that he will be an absolute stud.
2. Span overachieved last year. He never did anything like that in the minors. His value will never be higher, so get what you can for him now. That’s how other teams work big trades, by trading their expendable young studs.
IMO Gomez is the only one on the roster to have 5 tool potential, but I agree that I doubt he’ll ever hit for average and power even thought the physical skills are there. He might be a lifelong AAAA player.
Delmon does not have 5 tool potential even if he hits for power. You have to be a great fielder and DY falls way short.
Shane Mack was 5 tool player?
Thank you Joe — great writeup! I didn’t realize Wiggington’s improvement at 3B came on natural grass. He might be OK in the new ballpark though. Only one more year in the dome!
I never want to see Buscher play 3B again. Hit, yes. Field, no.
I don’t even want to see Buscher hit! 2008=fluke.
I think the Twins should go with a new starting lineup of:
1. Revere lf
2. Punto ss
3. Hicks rf
4. Valencia 3b
5. Hughes 2b
6. Kubel 1b
7. Morales c
8. Gomez cf
9. Tolbert dh
The Twins should trade all of their current starters except Punto and obtain as much cash money as they can. It would help the organization become financially stronger. They could still compete with the new lineup against the Central Division. It would be a good business decision to get rid of all those players who will be demanding high salaries like Mauer, Morneau, Span, Young, Cuddyer, Casilla, Buscher, Harris, Nathan and Crain.
Bombo Rivera was the best five tool player of twins history
Twins best 5-tool player.
Larry Hisle?
Zoilo Versalles?
Tony Oliva? (after he learned to play RF and before his knees blew up)
Bob Allison?
Jimmy Hall?
Kirby Puckett?
Joe Nelson has signed with the Tampa Bay Rays. 1 year/ $1.3 million… I guess the Twins could not afford that either.
Twins best 5-tool player.
the Hall of Famer…
IMO,Carew is the Twins best 4-tool-player. (not enough power)
sane, for 4-tools its probably a tossup between Carew and Killebrew… (does Winfield count as a Twins 5 tooler?)
Winfield is definitely a candidate if the brevity of his TWINS career is not a factor.
Carew’s arm and Killebrew’s lack of speed and fielding skill may drop them to 3-tools.
Twins don’t have anything close to a five tool player. Gomez: can’t throw accurately or HIT….
Trade Thrylos98–He’s full of crap.
And you can tell him I said so.
Dogg,
Gomez’s throwing accuracy and hitting are (theoretically) correctable.
Whether they are ACTUALLY correctable?
TBD!
sane,
IMHO Tony-o all day. I remember watching a TV game where he swung at a pitch about 6″ outside and so close to the dirt I’m suprised he caught the sweet spot. HR to right center. They showed the swing repreated times. Great memory. Too bad his knee injury cut his carreer short. He was definitely on the road to the HOF. Also, great definition on 5-toolers.
What about Knoblauch i know he never had HR power but he did hit a lot of doubles and played good defense until he lost his mind in NY.
Everyone talkin up the possibility of signing Crede can forget about it.
I think his agent (Scott Boras btw) will probably seek an Andruw Jones type 1-year contract for his client for next season(likely 4-8 million) - which bodes well for the Twins.
However, given the market right now, there will probably be a number of teams willing to offer him this.
I can guarantee you a player with a bad back trying to prove his health and re-establish himself will not sign a 1-year contract with a team that plays 80+ games on turf.
Someone explain why Span was in right and Young in left last season. Seems to me Span’s speed would have been an asset in left in the dome and Young’s strong arm an asset in right. Any thought to making this switch next year?
Bruce,
With Cuddaver returning to RF with Gardy’s blessing, Span’s move to LF is a done deal.
Why it wasn’t done last year, has something to do with Gardy’s butt-cheeks being too tight to allow even insignificant changes to take place during the regular season.
Bruce,
The reason Span was in RF last season was because he was supposed to be a temporary fill in for Cuddyer.
SweetOne,
My alternative “temporary” solution would have been to “temporarily” move Delmon back to his former (Rays) position (RF) which is easier to play at the Dome, and have Span (the superior outfielder) play LF, where he had played occasionally at AAA.
But that’s just me.
Joe Nelson has signed with Tampa Bay for a reported one year deal of 1.3 million. Explain to me why the Twins did not pursue this guy for that money? Now they want us to believe they are trying to get Brandon Lyon? Lyon will cost more and will seek a longer term deal then Nelson. That means it is just more talk and no action from the Twins front office.
Hey Thrylos !!
Love your Lil Saint Nick (Beach Boys) skit on U-Tube. All you bloggers should check out his sight as he always comes up with great informative articles on the Twins!
Merry Christmas
sane,
it is not just you, believe me… With those five, Caddaver belongs at the bench as a super utility 1B/RF/DH role.
Jeff, thanks mucho but it’s not mine. I just posted it. Those guys are very talented.
IMO, give Harris a chance to be the full time 3B & see how he produces. If he falls flat on his face, go with speed & defense. Tolbert @3B. Punto @ SS. Casilla @ 2B. Span in Left. Gomez in Center. Have them bat 7, 8, 9, 1, 2 ( Tolbert, Gomez, Punto, Span & Casilla…. alternating switch hitters). Improved range & defense. Awesome speed on the base paths. The Cardinals in 1987 did very well & only Jack Clark was a “power hitter”. Clark used to get a lot of fastballs to hammer because of all the SB threats littering the base paths. Granted, the slide step has changed the base stealing game but what other team would have this much speed in 5 consecutive batters? Kubel, Young & Cuddyer would handle RF & DH. The Twins are NOT going to trade for a 30 home run SS or 3B. Speed kills! If Span, Casilla & Tolbert for example, can average close to .300 with a fair number of doubles, the team should score a lot of runs & give the other teams’ managers near nervous breakdowns.
Happy Holidays everyone.
thrylos
i read that the twins have signed RA Dickey. thoughts?
RA Dickey could pitch inside the Dome without any crosswind to screw up the location command of his knuckleball.
It could be a great idea.
thanks.
MR or starter and what might this mean as far humber, mulvey and boof
I wonder how RA Dickey could say no to the Yankees?
RA Dickey…..ho hum.
MR. He had a 2-0, 2.00 era in 18 relief appearances with the m’s, and was horrible as a starter.
thrylos
i read that the twins have signed RA Dickey. thoughts?
This is a bit of a schizophrenic move…
last year they could have had him, but they traded him for a non-prospect A-level catcher.
I do not like this move. There is no way he will be in the majors unless someone gets hurt or traded at this point. He will be 34. He will probably be a starter in Rochester blocking a bunch of prospects… The Twins gotta quit signing 30something AAA players who block these players. He was not an impact pitcher in Seattle (think Rincon) and doubt that it could be. If they wanted to take a gamble at minor league free agent pitchers who are actually young and have some upside, Oneli Perez, Matt Peterson, Tim Spooneybarger and Cory Doyne are still there…
MR or starter and what might this mean as far humber, mulvey and boof
not much on any of them. He singed a minor league contract, will not be on the 40 man roster and will probably start the season in Rochester.
The age of a knuckleballer is irrelevant.
They can pitch as long as they are able to stand up.
and he signed a minor/major league contract different pays for when hes up and down, and he signed cause the twins ASSURED him of their use for him at the major league level.
sane,
there are a few problems with Dickey (just checked a couple of numbers) which would require a knuckleball specialist pitching coach to fix them:
a. His knuckleball is too fast. It averages 73 mph while his fastball averages 85 and his change 74.
b. His knuckleball has not enough movement. Given that and its speed hitters sit on it like a change and hit it like a change. In addition to the lack of the movement, he does not have control of it. His K/BB last season was 1.14.
c. Last season he threw 65% knuckleballs and 30% fastballs (of the Livan variety of “fastball” with similar results, 1.56 WHIP) He’s got to be at the 90% knuckleball 10% fastball range
d. Mauer has had some problems blocking balls last season, can you imagine him with a knucleballer on the mount?
Those are my reservations pretty much… I know that knuckleballers can pitch until they are embalmed, but minor league contracts are only one year old, and the guy probably needs more than that to fix his stuff (and I am not sure that the Twins have anyone to help him fix it…)
i like it, meaning dickey of course, as he may do just fine..it sounds as though he has just been refining the knuckler and he may just be a great addition to the bullpen and if he is successful, he will be able to go back to back games etc…may just be the answer–it certainly wont hurt to find out.. im glad he signed with the twins and im glad they made the offer…now go get wiggy signed and we have 53 days til spring training– merry xmas twins bloggers
Hey I thought we were trying to get younger at Rochester?? Why would we sign a guy like Dickey unless he is only in the bullpen as he was horrific as a starter last year.
If the Twins signed RA Dickey the only thing he’ll be is bullpen help. I’m fine with that. Knuckleballers can pitch forever as long as they can get that flutter ball over.
I think that R.A. Dickey will probably be a non-factor next season, but he might be a good luck charm.
Do you remember the last season the Twins acquired a knuckleball pitcher?
1987.
Of course, Joe Niekro went from an 3.55 ERA and a 1.164 WHIP from the Yankees to a 6.26 ERA and a 1.661 WHIP with the Twins, and culminated 1998 his last season in pro ball with a 10.03 ERA and a 2.143 WHIP, but he was one of the most memorable Twins’ players (does anyone remember the emery board episode and the subsequent David Letterman appearance) and he left this earth too young…
That said, Niekro is a prime example of why a knuckleball is not better in a dome (unless you believe the old ghost stories about air conditioner fans them days or willing to disregard Wakefield’s 4.54 ERA in the Metrodome)
Bullpen is the problem!!! Leave all else the way it is (and only because the Twins won’t spend the money)…the defense was good enough and the offense scored the 3rd most in the AL. What really needs help is the bullpen!!! In modern baseball, your bullpen is another everyday player (which means it is more valuable than an individual starter). It showed it’s weaknesses down the stretch…we need help…go out and get pitchers. You get nice value for your money with bullpen pitchers….Twins love good value spending…
The RA Dickey signing was a nearly perfect low-risk, (potentially) high -reward investment.
If he doesn’t make the MLB team, he pitches at AAA (at a minor league salary) until he either finds his groove and gets promoted; OR he shows no progress and is released.
Meanwhile, Jason Jones gets his shot at MLB.
If Dickey immediately (or eventually) makes the Twins roster and recreates his 2-0, 2.00 numbers, the Twins get:
1) A guy who can pitch 2-3-4 innings EVERY DAY.
2) A work-load alleviation for Guerrier, Crain, Reyes, Breslow, Mijares and Nathan.
This will enable the whole bullpen to better maintain their pitching mechanics, which destroyed Guerrier last year.
3) The young rotation will no longer be forced to pitch into the 6th-7th innings, even when their pitch count limits have been reached.
4) The performance of the whole staff may improve dramatically when their work loads are lightened.
All that (potentially) and at an amazingly low risk in money and effort.
My only complaint is that the Twins could have done this last year.
Instead, they let Dickey escape, so they could keep Brian Bass and Jair Fernandez.
What effect on the race, would Dickey’s 2-0, 2.00 numbers have had, instead of Bass’s 3-4, 4.87?
sane.. i couldnt agree with you more on your look at the bullpen possibilities…just think if jones and dickey both come thru, this whole staff could be just short of sensational….with not having to beat the hell out of each reliever, they will all be so more effective…lets hope that happens….i dont care if the twins make any more moves with the pitching staff before spring training, as i think they have enough arms now, with the addition of dickey and jones, plust the AAA guys that may produce a nice suprise or two….in fact i would ask that the twins only make one more move for certain and that would be to sign wigginton for the same reasons i have mentioned numerous times….i just dont like the idea of trading anyone on this club as it sits now…our pitching is great, we have speed, i believe we have better than average defense, we have great depth, a strong bench, we have our leaders, and the only weakness is the same one left from last year…we need more 4 baggers, so lets do the best thing left available….SIGN WIGGINTON….sorry sane i cant go along with your improved homeruns from everyone on the club, by having more at bats with the loss of lamb,monroe, etc…….i dont see those guys hitting alot more than they did last year, especially a guy like casilla– well now were down to 52 days to spring training…merry xmas
In case anyone didn’t notice… Pohlad is a cheap prick…
mj1,
If the price for a mid-level Free Agent takes a steep drop, as has been predicted, maybe a Wiggy (or a Crede) signing will fall within the Twins’ (alleged) budget constraints.
Let the starters pitch seven innings and the bullpen would be much improved. Gardy needs to use a longer leash for Baker and Slowey especially.
Buscher’s “improved” defensive numbers are still worse than Cuddy’s defensive numbers at 3rd in 2005. What’s the difference?
keyword..alleged…the way i look at it sane is if pohland with all his billions cant afford to put a winning product on the field and do whats needed to completely compete, then get out and let someone else in…even in these crazy financial times there are people out there willing to play mlb the right way…
I don’t understand the reticense to guarantee 3 years. So what if his hands turn to stone after 2 years. You’ve had two years of no worries and maybe won a pennant or two. For the third year he pinch hits or plays the field when injuries double up.
MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone!!!!!!!!
I found the following under my tree:
1) JJ Hardy
2) Crede (price still on him said 90% off!!!)
3) Lyons
cooool…..
SICK AND TIRED OF THE TWINS BEING SO CHEAP…..FOR GODS SAKES GO OUT AND GET SOMEBOYD LIKE ERIC CHAVEZ OR GARRET ATKINS FROM THE ROX…TWINS NEED TO START SPENDING $$$ TO GET FANS IN THE STANDS! SIGN BURRELL GO AFTER DERRICK LOWE AND GET A BETTER BACKUP CATCHER THAN REDMOND…IF BELTRE DOESNT WANT TO WAVE HIS NO TRADE CLAUSE TO COME TO MN HE CAN SHOVE IT AND PLAY IN SEATTLE AND LOSE 150 GAMES…..GET SOMETHING DONE OR I AM NOT RENEWING SEASON TICKETS IN 2010 TWINKIES! THATS WHAT YOU FANS HAVE TO START SAYING…ALL OF YOUR LITTLE STATS AND ALL OF YOUR ARMCHAIR PREDICTIONS MEAN SQUAT TO THEM UNTIL YOU CALL THEM AND TELL THEM THAT IF THEY DONT SPEND AND START IMPROVING YOU WONT BE SHOWING UP…GET THE COURAGE TO DO IT!
RA Dickey?
Typical Twins.
Let’s hope he sees no significant time in Minneapolis this season.
R A Dickey career: 378 IP, 5.57 ERA, 1.565 WHIP.
R A Dickey 2008: 112.1 IP, 5.21 ERA, 1.558 WHIP.
R A Dickey 2008, as reliever: 36 IP, 2.00 ERA, 1.167 WHIP.
Which of these things isn’t like the others?
Best rant… :)
INGY B says:
December 25th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
SICK AND TIRED OF THE TWINS BEING SO CHEAP…..FOR GODS SAKES GO OUT AND GET SOMEBOYD LIKE ERIC CHAVEZ OR GARRET ATKINS FROM THE ROX…TWINS NEED TO START SPENDING $$$ TO GET FANS IN THE STANDS! SIGN BURRELL GO AFTER DERRICK LOWE AND GET A BETTER BACKUP CATCHER THAN REDMOND…IF BELTRE DOESNT WANT TO WAVE HIS NO TRADE CLAUSE TO COME TO MN HE CAN SHOVE IT AND PLAY IN SEATTLE AND LOSE 150 GAMES…..GET SOMETHING DONE OR I AM NOT RENEWING SEASON TICKETS IN 2010 TWINKIES! THATS WHAT YOU FANS HAVE TO START SAYING…ALL OF YOUR LITTLE STATS AND ALL OF YOUR ARMCHAIR PREDICTIONS MEAN SQUAT TO THEM UNTIL YOU CALL THEM AND TELL THEM THAT IF THEY DONT SPEND AND START IMPROVING YOU WONT BE SHOWING UP…GET THE COURAGE TO DO IT!
Chief: Looks to me your saying Dickey does better in limited roles out of the bullpen comparred to when he’s expected to start.
Best rant…
Except for that whole Garrett Atkins thing…since I doubt anybody here would be happy if the Twins parted with Span at this point.
1987 Twins
Gary Gaetti HR - 31
Kirby Puckett HR - 28
Tom Brunansky HR - 32
Kent Hrbek HR - 34
Tim Laudner HR - 16
Greg Gagne HR - 10
Dan Gladden HR - 8
Steve Lombardozzi HR - 8
Roy Smalley HR - 8
Total: 175 HRS
2008 Twins
Justin Morneau HR - 23
Jason Kubel HR - 20
Delmon Young HR - 10
Joe Mauer HR - 9
Carlos Gomez HR - 7
Alexi Casilla HR - 7
Denard Span HR - 6
Brian Buscher HR - 4
Nick Punto HR - 2
Total: 88 HRS
Eric Chavez…sucks now. Used to be good. No longer. Atkins could be a HoFer, but I doubt it. He certainly really hasn’t proven anything yet.
Coincidentally, the ‘87 Twins had 87 more HR’s than the ‘08 Twins.
USAF Chief,
“RA Dickey?
Typical Twins.
Let’s hope he sees no significant time in Minneapolis this season.”
As you can tell from my X-mas day posts, I think that the RA Dickey signing was a good idea.
However, I am not going to disagree with you until I have upgraded my Home Air Defense System.
You have mentioned previously that you have friends who might be persuaded to execute an air strike.
Sane….once we get to this point of the discussion…the major leagues… we are not talking about tools as potential abilities. If that were the case the word “potential” would have been inserted. Try to stay on point next time.
Ace,
“we are not talking about tools as potential abilities. If that were the case the word “potential” would have been inserted.”
The proper terms are “tools” and “potential abilities” which have similar meanings.
I have never seen the term “potential tools” used. That is because the two words are redundant.
If you can show me an example, where the term “potential tools” is used by a respected baseball source, I will admit my error immediately.
Great work Joe! I’m leaning towards status quo, with Harris hopefully seeing most of the action. Buscher can spell him on occasion as well as ph. With Harris at 3b with the rest of the line-up set, the Twins must be the team to beat in the division. They have a stronger 25 and 40 man roster than KC, Chi, Cle, and Det. And if you break in down, they have tremendous depth. Here are few that I feel will make a contribution in 2009;
Pridie
Mijares
Plouffe
Duensing
Morales
nick punto sucks
From MLBtraderumors.com (NOT me).
Top Ten Bargains
Willie Harris: +$14.6MM (paid $800K, worth $15.4MM)
Mike Cameron: +12.55MM
Jerry Hairston Jr.: +10.375MM
Milton Bradley: +10.3MM
Eric Hinske: +$8MM
Aaron Miles: +$6.9MM
Rod Barajas: +$6.2MM
Cesar Izturis: +$5.25MM
Russell Branyan: +$4.8MM
Pedro Feliz: +$4.4MM
Top Ten Busts
Andruw Jones: -$15.7MM (worth -$1.6MM, paid $14.1MM)
Jose Guillen: -$11.1MM
Jorge Posada: -$9.7MM
Mike Lamb: -$9.4MM
Corey Patterson: -$8MM
Aaron Rowand: -$7.2MM
Brad Wilkerson: -$6.9MM
Omar Vizquel: -$6.5MM
Torii Hunter: -$5.7MM
Paul Lo Duca: -$5.1MM
MIKE LAMB!!! Hey- at least we signed a free agent of note.
Also sort of nice to see Torii on the list of busts.
We coulda signed Pedro Feliz, instead of Lamb.
Who knew?
How do they figure who’s worth what?
T,
From mlbtraderumors:
“Using Wins Above Replacement data from FanGraphs and contract info from Cot’s Baseball Contracts, I have determined the biggest free agent bargains and busts of the 2008 season (position players only). I did my best to calculate what the player was paid in 2008, including bonuses and incentives. Hopefully I didn’t miss anyone important; I used ESPN’s Free Agent Tracker.”
BC Beneke-You are the baseball expert,which team did that Reagan dude play for.If you mean that “Bedtime for Bozo” guy,you should be looking up instead of down.Being of neither party,i know these things!You definitly don’t want go were he is,you best get used to the fire!Please stick to baseball! Most of your baseball predictions are wrong,how do you know prediction about Reagan are right?
Phhhu-ck Pohlad and Smith…. Cheap pricks….
I couldn’t care less if they don’t sign one single free-agent until 2011. Between now and then, especially with the increase in revenue once they move into Target Field, the Twins should worry about nothing except saving money to re-sign hometown hero Joe Mauer to a 7 year $130 million dollar contract. I don’t care if Nathan or Morneau go, Mauer is the heart and soul of Twins Baseball as was Kirby Puckett. I really think that Pohlad just might open up his check book for something like this in a few years because the stadium is a gold mine to the Pohlad Family. They have been fighting for a ballpark for years and now they have it and they know the Twins will make a big leap in revenue as a result, allowing them to actually spend unlike when they were playing in the Dome and at the near bottom in MLB along with the Expos, Marlins, etc.
“I don’t care if Nathan or Morneau go…”
Then your prioroties are way out of order. Nathan, w/e. Morneau MUST stay.
*priorities*
Hometown hero Joe Mauer? Hahahahahahahahahahaha… The guy hits a ball for a living… police officers, firemen, soldiers, they are the real deal not some sports clown…
Everyone loves a semantics bully. Way to go Jake. Let me guess, you are either a police officer, fireman or a soldier?
Jake is obviously not a police officer, fireman or soldier.
He is just a piece of crap that convinces me that I should sympathize with a miser, rather than a jake-ass!
SteveO, interesting home run stats, yet the 2008 Twins scored 829 runs, and the 1987 Twins scored 786. I’m willing to grant that the Twins were lucky to have scored that many runs last year, and I would love to see more power from them, but runs scored is a more important metric than team home runs.
No mention of Doug Mientkiewicz as a third baseman who can play defense?
I would bring him in as a utility player at the least.
Now, I have to respectfully disagree with Joe C. about the “need” to upgrade defense at 3B. He’s absolutely right that the Twins should look to improve defensively, but the problem is they’ve already committed to an infield starter whose only asset is defense. What the Twins need is a 3B who can hit the ball over the fence…something they haven’t had since Corey Koskie.
In short, 3B is not the spot to sacrifice offense for defense…if you want to do that up the middle or even in centerfield with a guy like Go-go, that’s one thing. As far as 3B goes, it’s time to drag someone in (either in free agency, trade, or from minors) who has a chance to be a power hitter.
What does that have to do with Doug Mientkiewicz? Nothing. I just wanted to continue to throw his name out there as a guy who can be a contributor off the bench and play the corner infield positions. My guess is no one who covers the Twins is mentioning him because the rift between Gardy and Dougie never was resolved.
Still waiting for a 3rd baseman
Here’s an interesting article from an SI link on salary cap arguments. I dont agree with everything he writes, but he makes some interesting points. By his analysis, if MLB had a salary cap similar to the NFL, the salary floor for ‘09 would be appx 120 mil for every MLB team. (He takes the total revenues for MLB, then divides by 32 teams, to come up with that average. It would seem odd to me that revenues would break-down that evenly. But if it is indeed true, than the Twins, et. al, are really screwing their fan base, and probably their players). Anyway, interesting read if nothing else. Link attached. Happy New Year fella’s!
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/yankees_s
Don’t worry cheap A-$-$- Pohlad already has his sports writer sheep letting the word out that we need to save for money our pending free agents just what I predicted would happen 6 months ago. Time for the fans to tell Pholad and Smith to Phhhu-ck off!!!
Neither Beltre or Hardy will ever be Twins! Will you people just let it go!
No power hitting infielder is going to join this team! they’ve had a couple chances to do it this off-season and the Twins have chose to sit on their pocketbook! Then they have Joe C. try and sell us some propaganda about next years pay increases! Well wouldn’t this be the year to try and win then? If we’re not going to be able to afford all these young studs in our rotation then why isn’t this year be taken more seriously? Always planning for the future that never comes~!!!
FU CHEAP BASS TERDS!
Dan Caffery….
You are so wrong…..I just don’t know where to begin…..It’s not worth it, but Joe Mauer could NEVER CARRY a team to a championship. The guy can’t even hit for power. Still waiting for the future that never comes! Morneau is the leader and heart of this team right now and you see how well that’s working out when you look at his late August and Sept. numbers. This team needs a real leader! Someone with personality. Someone that you can’t help but like.(Even if he gropes women in public bathrooms).
Yes, it’s me. You can only leave “New and Improved” on the label for so long.
I really like how the 2009 Twins team is shaping up. Ron Gardenhire has taken a leadership role this off-season. He is doing a good job, and the front office is being much wiser than a year ago.
The Twins have nice depth at 3B. Whoever plays the best will play the most. Not a concern at all. I think Gardy will try to tighten up the fielding by playing the best glove men at 3B the most. I think my man Tolbert has the talent to out-play the other guys, but we will have to see. Harris is out to prove he is a better player than the way he played last season, and Buscher hits RHP right up there with the best. Great group.
Gardy’s named OF (Span, Gomez, Cuddyer) will be much better than the one they fielded last year. LF was a disaster.
Span, Casilla, Baker and Liriano, barring injuries, will be with them from the start.
Billy Smith is trying to get a quality eighth inning guy for Delmon, but I don’t see it happening. They will likely get a couple of low to mid level prospects like what they received for Castillo. Gardy doesn’t want Delmon, the uncooperative malcontent, in spring training. Expect a trade in January.
Luis Matos was a great signing for the Twins. I think Gardy will like the veteran, and he will earn a spot in spring. I still hope to see Alejandro Machado play for the Twins, if he can finally throw again. He is playing winter ball. That guy has great hands, excellnt speed and range. Plus, his hitting appears to be improving.
I was hoping Tolbert and Stephen Tolleson would compete in spring for 2B with Casilla moving to SS. With the signing of Skipper’s little buddy, there are now 8 million reasons ($) why that won’t happen. Tolleson looks like a real good player. He can run, field and hit. He is really only a 2B though.
Players in the minor leagues to watch for are Trevor Plouffe who played 3B last year (where he belongs), and 2B-3B Brian Dinkelman.
Jose Mijares is the real thing and he could be that eighth inning guy the Twins are searching for. I remember him from 3 years ago in spring training. Remarkable stuff.
As we should all know by now, the Twins can score plenty of runs without HR power, so that is no concern. Pitching, fielding and scoring runs are on the Twins agenda. Terry Ryan said it best years ago: “I don’t care about home runs, I care about run production”. Enough said.
Shazeldazel-Joe C makes this blog available,show him a little respect.
Joe is a Pohlad sheep so is La Velle. They won’t rock the boat because they need their jobs.
Jake,
“They won’t rock the boat because they need their jobs.”
Your job will never be in jeopardy.
Who else would blow elephants for a nickel-a-herd?
I share a lot of the angst expressed by many of you regarding the club’s passivity, cheapness, and abhorrence of power hitters. I also find Joe C’s apologetics disappointing. However, the level of, er, discourse has really taken a nose dive. GENO’s right, a little respect wouldn’t hurt.
Without calling anybody names,I will say we’re only two months into the offseason and I’m already burnt out from hearing the same old sh#t as every year. Good luck everyone I’ll talk to you when and if the Twins ever do anything to be taken seriously.
Why doesn’t the twins try to aquire Hanley Ramirez he is cheap and signed through 2014 I know it would take a lot to get him, the redsox tried to make a run at him but it could make sense for both sides maybe a delmon young, nick blackburn brendon harris and brian duesing? maybe also pry a reliever from them also? I dont think they would bite or even if they would listen but the twins should try.
Here is my list of the best bargains on the Twins roster:
Player
Mauer: $18.9million surplus value
Span: $18.7m
Liriano:$15.2m
Baker: $15.1m
Slowey: $12.2m
Gomez: $11.4m
Blackburn:$10.9m
That’s seven players on the roster producing more than $10million more than we’re paying them for.
That’s pretty good.
From the Twins site:
Season in Preview
A lot can change by Opening Day, but as 2008 becomes 2009, this is who is projected to take the field for the Twins:
LF Denard Span
2B Alexi Casilla
C Joe Mauer
1B Justin Morneau
RF Michael Cuddyer
DH Jason Kubel
3B Brian Buscher (L)/Brendan Harris (R)
SS Nick Punto
CF Carlos Gomez
SP Scott Baker
SP Francisco Liriano
SP Kevin Slowey
SP Nick Blackburn
SP Glen Perkins
CL Joe Nathan
Words cannot express my…disapointment/anger at the abscense of Young in the starting line-up…might as well trade him then…
Hey Joe, anything new for us?
let’s just see what spring training brings … you never know who might get hurt before the season begins.
I don’t understand why Joe Crede was not mentioned in this article. He’s one of the best defensive 3b in MLB, when healthy.
Call it anecdotal evidence, but in the season where Cuddyer was primarily at 3b, he made 15 errors in 92 games. Sounds terrible. But, he made 10 in his first 45 games and just 5 in his final 47. That’s actually not too bad. IMO the Twins definitely gave up on Cuddyer at 3b way too soon. Keep in mind, while Cuddyer has a very strong arm in RF, his range is near the bottom among RFers in MLB.
I have a hard time accepting Nick Punto’s defensive performance at third base as the Twins’ minimum standard. Punto is a weak hitter, and his primary strengths are his speed and his defenses. Not many third baseman have Punto’s speed and range, because not many teams are willing to write a light-hitting speedster into their lineup at third base every day.
Cuddyer at third base is the answer to this void, without question. Young, Gomez, Span and Kubel are still young and they need consistent at-bats. The Twins will be better off in the long and short term if they all get 500 ABs. Cuddyer, meanwhile, isn’t as good an outfielder as Young/Span/Gomez, and he might not bring as much to the table offensively either. He’s only had, after all, one particularly strong big league season. But Harris and Buscher would create some serviceable insurance, and honestly, I’d be fine with 20 errors out of Cuddyer if he also stayed healthy all year and hit 20 homers.
The Tampa Bay Rays have reached an agreement with outfielder Pat Burrell on a two-year, $16 million contract, SI.com has confirmed. Burrell had spent his entire nine-year career with the Philadelphia Phillies, which culminated in the team’s World Series triumph over the Rays last October. Burrell batted .250 with 33 home runs and 86 RBIs in 2008, his fourth 30-home run season. A leftfielder in Philadelphia, Burrell is likely to be the designated hitter for the Rays.
Tampa Bay is unlikely to add another hitter from the list of players they had considered, including Ken Griffey Jr, Jason Giambi and Bobby Abreu.
Maybe Carl will send down Brooks Robinson from Heaven/Hell/Purgatory when he becomes available.
Best wishes to Jim and all the Pohlad family.
On a more pleasant note…congratulations Joe and Mrs C!
Second the congrats to Joe and Mrs. C. I wasn’t too fond of Pohlad’s eagerness to agree to contraction, but does anyone remember how he MAY have saved Major League Baseball in Minnesota in 1984? Just striking up convo so please don’t go into savage mode on me.
No (official) comment.
Phhhuu-ck Pohlad and the rest of his penny pinching minon family. They made their money screwing others over their whole lives. They never gave any money to charity unless it was a tax write off. You don’t save $3.6 billion by being generous… Enjoy becoming compost you P-r-i-c-k-!!!
Congrats Joe! Hopefully soon you can get back to writting, although sadly I doubt it with a new born child on your hands. Best wishes and get back to writting soon!!!
Oh and JonG…..man that is reaaalllllly low class, I sincerely disliked Pohlad in the front office, but man, thats pretty harsh and uncalled for.
Is it lowclass to the thousands of families and farms and lives he destroyed? Screw him…
Lets just f-ing sign some people already or we will be left in the dust next season
Jake and JonG, grow up. Better yet, enjoy being banned. Joe C, best wishes, hope you’re getting sleep, and look forward to your posts again soon.
Jon G, I dont care if you liked him or not. I wasnt a fan either, but man, the dude just died. Don’t praise anyones death, it will probably come back and bite you in the ass some day.
Kevin in dallas….
Yeah there really going to be successfully banned from an anonymous blog. It’s called freedom of speech. Pohlad was who he was and we as Americans have every right to voice our opinions.
“La Velle says:
January 6th, 2009 at 12:15
Read this and understand this clearly. This is my blog. I have the power to erase, remove bad language and BAN anyone I feel has crossed the line. And, yes BC, I have every right to ban you if I want to. And if you or anyone else crosses the line, I will do so.
For example of what can tick me off, go to Joe C.’s last post before he took time off to be with his pregnant wife. A couple of those posters deserve to be banned - and I will look into making that happen.
And if I want someone off this blog, believe me, it will happen….”
i know you’ve written something since the 23rd of dec…
I wish I could get paid to work every 3 weeks. Wow…
Let the man enjoy his new child. He’ll be back next week…
Andruw Jones will be leaving Los Angeles on Thursday.
In a prearranged deal done about two weeks ago, Jones and the Dodgers agreed to a separation Jan. 15 for the center fielder. If the team isn’t able to trade him (and there’s no reason to think they will be able to do it in the next 24 hours), the Dodgers will give Jones his release.
As stipulated in the agreement, Jones agreed to defer all but $5 million of his $22 million salary in 2009 in exchange for his freedom. It’s believed that if he can find a taker willing to pay $1-to-2 million, the move is expected to turn into basically a financial wash for Jones, who knew his time was up in L.A.
Quit thinking like Smith. A patheic GM when we gave the Twins a new ball park and Pohlads promised if done to be a contender and spend $25 mil to make team better.
Did Pohlads lie?
They have the money to make payroll $85
mil, which is needed to be a contender
now and when new Target Center opens next season.
You are not a contender or a strong team
wwith the minor league infield we now have.
Something MUST be done!
The other teams have made big improvements, spending.
What must be done now!
Trade a pitcher to Milwaukee for HARDY.
Trade Young for Street.
Sign Dunn for Of/DH
Trade for Adkins at third. Offer pitching and Cuddyher.
or,,,take Tejada( SS 3b) off Houstons hands and pay 1/3 his salary of $10 mil
than install him at third and Hardy at SS with Dunn in OF…
This will add power finally and will move us out of last place in HRS hit
in AL.
Ummm…No?
Atkinks/Street: Stay away.
show the stats of Crede
Too late. Last year was the time for an upgrade. Obviously, ANY signing that could’ve gotten ONE MORE WIN would’ve gotten the Twins into the playoffs (as i SAID last year over and over to no avail). The Indians and White Sox will battle for the division and the Tigers will NOT have that fluke horrible year. The Twins will battle for 3rd or 4th place when two SP’s and two RP’s go down (as usual). KC might have a better year. Opportunity lost. I’ll type back later this year to say, “Told ye so,” for the ga-zillionth time. Gimme the GM job, Lmao!
