Twins break off talks with Gagne
Posted on January 28th, 2009 – 7:10 PMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins have broken off their negotiations with free agent reliever Eric Gagne and appear to be focused on finding eighth-inning relief help through a trade.
What kind of trade? Not sure, but I’ll have more on the Gagne negotiations in tonight’s first editions.
Also, free agent third baseman Joe Crede worked out in front of scouts today in Arizona, and the Twins were expected to be in attendance.
Update (9:45 p.m.): Here’s the link to the Gagne story.
169 Responses to "Twins break off talks with Gagne"
This smell’s of ownership saying hold the line on spending! Cheap Cheap
If this is true it’s irritating that they’d walk away at the 11th hour at what sounds like a relative bargain.
I’m not sure this is about being cheap. I’m guessing Boras was trying to get something more than he deserves; there’s a reason he’s still out there.
I’d love to take a shot with him, but only for a certain price.
I hope you can dig up some stuff regarding trades Joe! And, I hope we’ll see some Crede signing soon 
[…] According to Joe C, the Twins have cut off their talks with Gagne. […]
FIRE SMITH NOW.
GO TO HELL FATASS
maybe another team decided to offer a guy they deem better, knowing the Twins were in on Gagne? But Who?
I dunno, maybe they think they can sign Crede and move Butcher or Harris to get some pen help. I dunno, just a thought. I don’t know that Gange would be much help anyways…
The Brewers signed this stiff for $10 million last year & now he’s ready to sign for 30% of that? Sounds fishy to me. If the inside source of this information was Scott Boras……you know what they say. How can you tell if Scott Boras is lying? Easy, his lips are moving. I wouldn’t get too excited about this “news” without knowing it’s source.
This is stretch, but how about A Heilman, with the Cubs putting the pieces together for Peavy? He makes less than 2 mil.
why does everyone get so excited about those twinkies.your like me whating for something to happen once…..but with the likes of smith running the showanother wasted year.twins fans should boycott them,cause they,ll mount to jack s…t
Let me guess? Gagne didn’t want to sign for the league minimum. What is wrong with the Twins? We are missing just a piece or two and the purse strings are so tight that a piece of dust could not get inside. Like Andy M. used to say you only get so many opportunities to win. Mauer and Morneau will only be her a few more years and we are playing for some far off future again in the land of Billy Smith. Billy keeps all his prospects.
UUGGHHHH!
i agree with you david we are only a couple good players away. but how do you perswade penny pinchers to do something.they,ll be like the t wolves.got a horse a.. line up and wonder why theres no fan support.its damm sad
Not sure if you guys just read the story here on the Star Tribune.
From the story that just went up, it looks like Gagne was going to agree to a one-year $3 million deal before the Twins told him they were going in a different direction.
They must have something up their sleeve, why else for the sudden change in interest?
Maybe they will trade with the Red Sox.
This has cheap written all over it.
Very shrewd Billy Smith and Co. are…Getting close enough to get some coverage so it seems they are trying, then going back to cheapness. Gotta love it. Time to hear the apologists claim, “but they are trying so hard by golly, gee golly.”
Yup, make an other he will refuse…oops just kidding
You know…Maybe this isn’t about the usual cheapness.
I’m starting to think “Mr. NO!” Billy Boy is plain ole’ gun shy after last offseason’s pickups.
Or cheap, one or the other.
i don’t think it is cheapness…. i just hope it means something better.
Well, if good ole bill messed over Boras, goodbye Crede
Very confused here. So Gagne was willing to sign our deal but we pull it at the last minute. And Gagne is a Boras guy as is Crede. Does this effect the Crede situation?
Maybe the rumored Young for Kouzmanoff trade will go down with a reliever coming this way from San Diego as part of the deal.
Better be something else in the works because I think Gagne for 3 mil is a pretty good deal.
Oh yeah…totally forgot about the Boras-Crede connection.
Whelp, say goodbye to Joey. Looks like Buscher trotting out there opening day.
Pass the Jack Daniels.
Fella’s:
JOe C says source(s), plural, close to Gagne gave him this story. I.e., not Boras. Why the hell would Boras embarrass his client by saying the Twins, of all teams, backed off on him? Some other reason for this…who knows what…money, or, the Twins are gun-shy, even for the 3 million they apparently could get him for. Trades for bullpen help? Who is BS kidding. Our guys are not going to trade the ballboy or copy machine for BP help. At the end of the day, for me, it’s ho-hum. Gagne is not going to solidify the bullpen.
As for Crede, we just better hope noone else bids for him, but even that appears to be a slim hope. Heyman reports today both the Giants and Rangers are interested. All we need to know is this: IF there is a bidding tussle for Crede, the Twins will not participate.
Why would the Rangers be interested in Crede? They have already asked Mike Young to play 3rd base to make room for Elvis Andrus.
SSDD
This was smart. Gagne could very well have been effective, but Delaney and Slama are coming up, Bonser has the perfect stuff to be a reliever, Crain is two years removed from surgery, Guerrier exists, Breslow should regress but is still a good option, and Mijares looked good. Gagne looks like he’d block better prospects more than actually contribute.
Didn’t you guys hear??? Crain and Guerrier said last weekend that they will take care of setting up for Nathan…And after the performance they put forth last year, I find no reason to doubt them. I mean, why bother to try something to upgrade this team. They got it on lock down.
Oh, wait a minute.
So where is Crede going to sign now after this happened???
I say Giants. They need offense, have a vacancy, have some money they would spend (must be nice), nice weather….
That’s my guess.
I agree, Crede will land in SF
I can’t imagine the pissing off Boras is a good start to the Crede negotiations.
This is a strange development. I’m reserving judgment until I hear more, but this is decidedly weird.
I agree with Boneyard, this better mean there’s something in the works, and not the “trade we just missed on”.
If not, I will be very disappointed.
I am SHOCKED that once his price came down and they might have to sign him that they backed out. SHOCKED. I mean, this team always fills its holes, right?
I love it.
Headline: “Twins in talks with Gagne.
Response: “Cheap bastards. Why can’t they go find a REAL pitcher!?”
——
Headline: “Twins break off talks with Gagne.”
Response: “Cheap bastards. They had a chance at a REAL pitcher!”
For the record, T, that’s not what I meant (although I do think the FO is cheap to an unreasonable degree). I just think its weird to back out when a guy is about to accept your offer. If that’s what happened. We’ll see.
remember, phantom said hardy would be a twin in 7-10 days–that was January 21
I’m nervous that DY is about to wave goodbye. He’s doesn’t look as good as advertised, but man would we be selling low on him.
Any chance this development really means we’re about to sign Sheets and move Blackburn/Perkins to the pen?
Gagne is the exact FA signing that the Twins have pursued recently that people have routinely mocked because done with cost in mind. Could have been a decent signing, but i have a feeling that he has a lot of RonDL about him.
T,
Why do you always bash bloggers or bash quotes, you rarely have anything constructive to say. Here come the “good ole boys”
GOODBYE
this is actually good news.
Gagne would have been another Rincon. Donuts to dollars, Bonser and Crain will have better numbers than Gagne next year (hey, Dragon, if you still keeping count you can take this to the house )
The pen will be fine. I don’t get the urgency about going for an 8th inning guy while the 3B situation is (ahem) less than optimal and the 5th spot in the rotation is pretty shaky…
T
well said. I have a feeling they are wanting to use that 3 mill somewhere else
so many people need to realize this is a buyer’s market. BS hasn’t moved on stuff for 2 reasons - 1) yes he is cheap but hes not stupid which is a good thing; 2) he’s waiting for prices to come down; there are still some studs out there waiting to be had, and he might be able to pull of a steal.
Think of the FA market as the Housing Market. Its a buyer’s market, clearly much cheaper to build your own house (or in this case, player from the farm system), and prices have fallen quite a bit. Steals can be had, and a greater return on one’s investment makes quite a bit of sense.
I’d say the Twins have about the nicest 5th starter situation around. It’ll start with Perkins, who looks like he can be around league average in performance. Then we have Humber, Swarzak and Mulvey if things go south. Don’t you dare say a word about bringing in a ‘veteran presence’ like Josh Fogg. Not that you were implying that.
I’m not disappointed with not signing him. I just see it as another tease example by the FO, to convince fans they are trying to do something, then when it might happen they back out (like loving Wiggington for two years, until he is actually available).
As for 3B, thrylos, haven’t you heard, they drove in 91 runs last year…..
I have no idea why anyone would believe they will sign a legit FA (one who is making more than a few mill, and isn’t a washed up vet) or trade for a player in his prime earning years. It just isn’t going to happen.
Yeah, I’m not concerned about anything…All the apologists and gee-gollies are saying everything will be fine, including the ‘pen, which, after what happened last year, can’t be further from the truth….
But, hey, apparently this team as is is good enough to at least win the division. So, I’ll just sit back and wait for the championship.
One thought on Crede: If he really only wants a 1yr deal, it would make more sense for him to stay in the AL, knowing the pitchers, parks, etc…So, Tx or Mn….and the Rangers would sign only if they are backing off the rookie SS wunderkid,OR, they are really going to trade Young.
Or, it could be Boras blowing smoke up everyone’s ass….I know, I know, that’s hard to believe, Honest Scott creating diversions to benefit his bottom line. But what the heck, when you are a money sucking parasite, anything goes…..
Ty Wignington is still out there, yes?
As is Dennys Reyes?
Let’s see, the economy is going down the tubes. The Yankees have spent their money. Boras has screwed up Manny’s chances with the Dodgers. Gagne has not signed with anyone. Crede has not signed with anyone. There are 100 unsigned free agents 2 weeks before Spring Training. What does this all add up to? Boras just does not get it. The older players no longer produce like they used to since ‘roid testing. At least some of the Teams are nervous about the economy’s effect on the upcoming season. Boras thinks he can bully his way into teams bidding against themselves as in the past. BORAS IS WRONG. On so many levels…. I’m sure he will soon be trotting out the collusion charges again. I wouldn’t offer any of his free agents more than minimum wage (if you can call hundreds of thousands of dollars a year a “minimum”). If by my rant, you are detecting the chance that Scott Boras is not my favorite person, you would be correct. Go ahead, make a move but don’t sign a “roid -free” stiff like Gagne. End of rant…. Maybe.
I don’t think this hurts things with Boras and Crede. Boras, if nothing else, is a shrewd businessman. He’s not going to take one team away from negotiations when all he’s likely got is two teams bidding for Crede if he proved he’s healthy today. Basically only San Fran and the Twins are in on him seriously, so what good would it do Boras to cut one of them out?
Seems strange that they would back out this late because they always pride themselves on keeping their word. 3m seems like a cheap try if he would turn out ok.
2 guys out there that are costing their teams a lot of money, Roberts in Balt and Atkins in Col. neither tied up long term. Either and both have been rumored to be looked at by the Twins. Both would cost and both teams need cheap starting pitching which we have and we have extra cheap outfielders.
Might just be another tried but just didn’t work out. Kind of a head scratcher imo.
This may be Smith’s best move of the offseason.
This is good news. Why would we need to have Gagne as a set up man when we already have Nick Punto. I know a thing or two about a thing or two about twins games because I’ve been to a game or two a time or two. Nick Punto can catch the ball and throw the ball harder than Nolan Ryan. Ive seen It. If we benched Cuddy untill the 7th or 8th inning we could put him in at short and put Punto in the #1 spot. every game. This would make sense because NP can throw at least 100 mph for an inning or two.
This would also take some pressure of Nathan in the 9th
There is only one thing to say:
WTF
WTF
WTF
WTF
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WTFFFFFFF
I just don’t get it
The sad thing is Punto might have been a better option in the 8th inning most of August than what we had…
This whole thing seems weird to me.
All I can say is hopefully something better is going to happen in the next day or so… 3 mil for 1 yr with gagne, a Boras client… That is unheard of! Boras never accepts 1 yr deals from teams! Crossing my fingers that Crede thing will still work out!
Kyle Lohse
Kenny Rodgers
Maggilo Ordonez
3 Boras clients that have signed one year deals. He does it all the time banking on a rebound year.
thrylos,
I’ve already booked it.
Either I’ve worn you down, or you’re joining the “Dark Side” on this issue
This is a damn young team, and a there’s a bit of talent there.
I don’t think many realize that Liriano is currently our least experienced (ML) of the starting rotation with less than a year.
This market is still on the downslope. I think conceptually Seth was on to something when speculating that in May/June/July may be when the REAL bargain’s are available.
I hope the wins save their money, play the young pups for a few months to see if last year was real or imagined, then get Niemann Marcus quality at the dollar store.
These blogs would go crazy IF the Twins took of better players than are now on offer, as salary dumps.
Will the FO do it? Only time will tell.
Regards,
Plus if we could even start Nick Punto as a pitcher we wouldn’t need a DH and we could put delmon young at shortstop because nick punto would field the balls at short too. this is because of his world class speed. the real question is, why as loyal Twins fans do we need to put up with a catcher that has below average speed….Joe Mauer, aka Baby Jesus. Nick Punto is more than capable of being a future hall of fame everyday guy behind the plate. This position carries the attitude of our ball club and that is why we need a gutty, consistent, hard nosed player there. That man is the one and only Nick Punto. Punto could have broken ribs, fingers, legs, hip, and torn ligaments and would still be out there more than Mauer is. Don’t get me wrong, I like Mauer and his sideburns, but sideburns don’t win you championships.
Amazing!
The world is going to end because we didn’t sign Eric Gagne.
The Hugh Downs and Teeth Whitener ads should be replaced by a full page advertisement for Huggies.
They could have made a mint off all the posters who wet themselves over nothing.
Even thinking optimistically, Gagne isn’t going to be a savior for whatever team signs him. At best, he delivers average set-up production. At worst, he resorts to last year’s mostly dreadful numbers.
3 mil for Gagne was a pretty good deal so if the Twins pulled the offer, they must be pretty certain of whatever deal came up. At least makes it worth checking in early in the morning.
Thanks, JoeC, for working overtime and tracking this down tonight!
A few thoughts(some have already been said, but needed to chip in my two cents)
1)I really do hope that Smith has something going that is better than Gagne. And I hope that if he pulls it off without having to give up too much people will finally give him a little credit.
2)I have a gut feeling that if Gagne had been signed he would have fallen flat on his face and then people would have bashed Smith for wasting money. Besides all the veterans at the end of their careers that have been tried and failed lately, does anyone remember how much the Twins gave Rincon last year and ended up eating?
3)I doubt this will have any bearing on the Twins chances of signing of Crede. Scott Boras loves one thing-money. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the one who leaked they were close to a deal to drive up prices(or if the Twins pulled out of a deal because he went public to try and drive up the price) and I would bet there is more than a small part of him smiling because Gagne will sign somewhere for the same amount but now the Twins have just a little more to spend on a risky guy like Crede.
As for 3B, thrylos, haven’t you heard, they drove in 91 runs last year….
I’ve heard but they had a .730 OPS (which is 10% less than league average at third) and a .399 SLG (ouch). And 32 of those runs were driven in by Lamb (who is gone)
I’d say the Twins have about the nicest 5th starter situation around. It’ll start with Perkins, who looks like he can be around league average in performance.
MLB starter average WHIP 1.39
MLB starter average K/9 6.20
MLB starter average K/BB 2.06
Perkins’ WHIP: 1.47
Perkins’ K/9: 4.41
Perkins’ K/BB: 1.90
not even close. Blackburn is about an average MLB 5th starter.
Don’t you dare say a word about bringing in a ‘veteran presence’ like Josh Fogg.
nope. But may I say a word (or a few) about bringing in Pedro Martinez as a fourth starter?
A guy can dream: San Diego and Twins in a mega-deal involving Peavey, Heath Bell, Kouzmanoff and prospects, and Liriano, Young, and prospects in return. In the end, the Twins are landslide victors in this dream.
that would be a great dream… like a 6 or 8 player deal! I would have to give Billy props if he could pull that one out but I highly doubt it!
sometimes I wish nick punto would be traded to the royals so could have a real vision of his world class potential. Plus this would give him an opportunity to finally win a world series ring.plus nick puntos wife could sign on with royals and play bat girl. cause she’s so hot. BUZZKILL>
My dream, vivid as a tramp stamp, has eleven players involved. Kouzmanoff masters his position and improves his OPS by 30%. Peavey’s spouse LOVES Mall of America. San Diego settles for Brock Peterson and Eric Lis as its prospect bounty, and we get their future versions of Jason Bartlett, Alexi Casilla, and Joe Nathan.
Oh, yeah, we threw in Ryan Mullins.
birdofprey,
sorry to clip your wings, but Peavy would have been the #3 starter last year for the Twins behind Slowey and Baker, based on the numbers he put in a huge park in the lesser league.
[…] a comment According to Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune the Twins have broken off talks with Eric Gagne. Christensen reports that the Twins are now turning […]
in May/June/July may be when the REAL bargain’s are available.
yeah, it may be so, but what if the Twins are 15-20 games behind by then?
Gagne is a bum. Twins dodge a bullet.
Gagne has done the Fosberry flop 2 years in a row. Save the 3 mil and get the best 26 year old player in MLB signed to a long term contract. Joe should be priority #1 in this fans mind. If the twins lose Joe, they’ll lose more fans than the economy lost jobs this year. But saving 3 mil in this case is not cheap, its smart. Much better ways to spend that will appear or maybe they already have.
HAVE FUN !!! GO TWINS !!!
sorry to clip your wings, but Peavy would have been the #3 starter last year for the Twins behind Slowey and Baker, based on the numbers he put in a huge park in the lesser league.
Peavy: 2.85 ERA (134 ERA+ 1.18 WHIP)
Baker: 3.45 ERA (118 ERA+ 1.18 WHIP)
Slowey: 3.99 ERA (102 ERA+ 1.14 WHIP)
You sure about that?
[…] Around the Majors – […]
T says:
January 28th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
I love it.
Headline: “Twins in talks with Gagne.
Response: “Cheap bastards. Why can’t they go find a REAL pitcher!?”
——
Headline: “Twins break off talks with Gagne.”
Response: “Cheap bastards. They had a chance at a REAL pitcher!”
Is there a strawman left out there you haven’t used, T?
Peavy: 2.85 ERA (134 ERA+ 1.18 WHIP)
Baker: 3.45 ERA (118 ERA+ 1.18 WHIP)
Slowey: 3.99 ERA (102 ERA+ 1.14 WHIP)
forget ERA…
how about this:
Peavy: 1.180 WHIP 2.81 K/BB 8.60 K/9 (in the NL and a huge park)
Baker: 1.178 WHIP 3.36 K/BB 7.36 K/9
Slowey: 1.154 WHIP 5.13 K/BB 6.90 K/9
“MLB starter average WHIP 1.39
MLB starter average K/9 6.20
MLB starter average K/BB 2.06
Perkins’ WHIP: 1.47
Perkins’ K/9: 4.41
Perkins’ K/BB: 1.90
not even close. Blackburn is about an average MLB 5th starter.”
Not even close, thrylos.
You are looking at the numbers for an average MLB starter, and then claim that Blackburn is an average 5 starter?. If Blackburn’s numbers are close to league average - they are actually better in WHIP and K/BB - then he is a league average pitcher. Which, I would say means a number ‘3′ guy in the rotation. Blackburn is an average MLB starter. Not a 5th starter - a 3rd. And while Perkins may be below average, I would venture a guess that against other ‘5′ starters, he has pretty good numbers.
I’ll take Peavy as a #1 rather than Baker or Slowey.
I see Carl is still pulling the strings from the grave in the Gagne deal. Gagne’s agent calls Smith’s bluff and agrees to the Twins offer and Smith pulls it off the table. What a clown… The front office is a joke.
If Blackburn’s numbers are close to league average - they are actually better in WHIP and K/BB - then he is a league average pitcher. Which, I would say means a number ‘3′ guy in the rotation.
maybe in Pittsburgh’s rotation…
the point is that the ‘league average’ takes in count all the bad pitchers in all the bad teams.
If you want a winning team (i.e a team that can bring in a championship - and I hate to explain what winning means but fans have been pretty complacent about the Twins’ lack of success) your #4 and $5 pitchers have to be better than the tail end of below average MLB pitchers
I can’t believe people buy into the crap that Smith, Gardenhire, and St. Peter force down our throats when they spew off how our 3Bs drove in 91 runs last year.
Frankly, who cares? As Thrylos pointed out, 32 of those were from Lamb, and look at their combined OPS.
Our third basemen drove in 91 runs because Brian Buscher hit a superhuman .386 with RISP. You can’t even expect Morneau or Mauer - or hell, Albert Pujols - to do that in 2009. It’s absurd. It was a fluke of the largest, grandest, most insanely unthinkable proportions.
And the worst part about Buscher is that even in driving in all those runs, his glove probably gave 10 runs right back to the opposition.
BTW, just further proof, IMO, that all the talk about the Twins being ‘interested’ in this guy, or ‘interested in’ that guy, is just so much PR horsecrap.
They’re ‘interested’ in Gagne right up until he says yes. Then they’re suddenly NOT interested?
Horsecrap. How is signing a free agent even vaguely related to any future trade they might make anyway? Some state law says you can’t do both?
As for the Gagne situation…
Smith always says the right deal has never come along to make this a better club.
Think it’s possible someone contacted US and proposed something Billy liked? I’m curious to see…
“the point is that the ‘league average’ takes in count all the bad pitchers in all the bad teams.”
League average also takes into account the best starters from the best teams. What I’m saying is, Perkins just has to be decent. And if he’s not, we have some decent options at Rochester, and Swarzak even has some upside.
Keep in mind, last year was Perkins’ rookie season. I’d say he stands to improve a little.
Although Blackburn stands to regress a bit.
Well, even if they arent the best 4 and 5 tandem in the world, I’d say our top three make up for it. And you won’t find better options in the free agent market, unless we splurge for Ben Sheets or something. Bill Smith is doing the right thing in standing pat, at least.
The stunning thing about this free-agent market isn’t that there are still about 100 players without jobs, it’s that at least a dozen of the unemployed are excellent players in their prime.
It isn’t just patient all-time great Manny Ramirez who’s available, but enough All-Stars and stars to form their own very good team.
A dynamic lineup could be constructed with outfielders Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn and Garret Anderson, second baseman Orlando Hudson, shortstop Orlando Cabrera, third baseman Joe Crede and catcher Jason Varitek joining Ramirez. A very solid rotation would be formed with Oliver Perez, Ben Sheets, Randy Wolf, Jon Garland (EDITOR’S NOTE: Garland agreed to a deal with Arizona after press time) and Braden Looper. And Juan Cruz, one of the best set-up men in baseball, remains available, as well. If you play Dunn at first, all that’s missing are a center fielder and a closer.
Beyond all the current stars, there are several Hall-of-Famers-to-be with their hands out. Some think Jeff Kent’s retirement was hastened by this awful market. Kenny Rogers looks likely to call it quits, and others might, too.
There doesn’t seem to be a lot of action on all-time great Ken Griffey Jr., or for that matter, sure Hall of Famer Frank Thomas. Pedro Martinez, Tom Glavine, Moises Alou, Ivan Rodriguez and Nomar Garciaparra are among other former greats still available. It’s like a Who’s Who of 1990s baseball out there.
But it’s not only aging players who are wondering where their next paycheck is coming from. Plenty of players in their prime and even a few coming off 40-homer, 100-RBI or 14-win seasons are still seeking employment.
I mentioned this on a few other blogs already, but, what the heck, I might as well mention it here as well …
Juan Cruz is still out there. If the Twins don’t want to give up their 1st round pick, why can’t they negotiate their best deal with Cruz, then have Arizona sign him to that deal.
Once he signs, the Twins then trade an expendable player from their roster to Arizona for the newly signed Cruz. Let’s say Humber since he’s out of options.
My feeling is that if there was a team out there willing to lose their 1st round pick to sign Cruz he would be signed already. If and when Cruz signs, he’s going to sign for a lot less than he’s worth and he will probably go to a team that has already signed a type A free agent and lost their pick. Arizona would get nothing in return if that happened.
Great News!
sploorp,
i really don’t think Cruz is going to sign with Arizona, expect to play for Arizona, and then be cheap shot by Arizona and sent to Minnesota.
On Cruz, MLB has rules against trading players you just signed to prevent just that sort of thing. They’re not stupid. You can’t trade a player you just signed for a period of I believe 3 months, maybe 6.
At this stage Gagne isn’t much more than BP fodder. Whatever the price, a mil, two mil, three mil, would equate nothing more than a few unnecessary losses and a mil, two mil, or three mil down the septic line. Then come July, a waiver move. All the complainers are clueless, lamenting over the failure to spend but failing to grasp the fact that the issue isn’t money with Gagne, but rather performance. The shortsightedness factor never fails to amaze.
At some point you have to seriously start to wonder if the Pohlad kids have instructed Smith not to add any payroll, for estate tax or other reasons, and he’s covering for them. Unless this ‘trade’ is absolutely iminent there’s no reason to pull this offer, especially if you actually want a shot at Crede. While both Boof and Humber are out of options, I would assume that at least one of them would be involved in whatever this trade is. So even if there may be a trade down the line, there’s no harm bringing in Gagne anyway. Worst-case, maybe a guy like Gurrier or Breslow doesn’t make the team, or hell maybe Gagne doesn’t. But if you have the payroll room you claim to have it wouldn’t matter. It almost seems like they only wanted to negotiate to save face and were caught off guard when he accepted.
I will expect there to be a trade announced withing 48 hours. If not, I will assume either the Pohlads have cut off funds or Smith really is in over his head or both.
BS said that he would not be at the Crede workout,he would leave that to PROFESSIONAL talent evaluators.Can you imagine trusting PROFESSIONAL baseball people vs the little league rejects on this board.Silly man!
Gonn-yay is gone, yay!
The rest of the story.While the Mafia is not to strong in this country anymore,it’s still strong in Italy.Punto payoff for playing for Italy in the world games is a Al Capone style St Valentine’s Day Massacre against his haters on this board.Hid under your computers,boys! Speaking of Punto haters,were has BC Beneke been lately? Must be in training to take over for BS when spring training starts.
“in May/June/July may be when the REAL bargain’s are available.”
‘yeah, it may be so, but what if the Twins are 15-20 games behind by then?’
Then two FA’s signed now, wouldn’t have been good enough to save their sorry *$$!
Bet ya Billy boy is pocketing some serious bonus money by NOT signing any free agents.
“The Twins…appear to be focused on finding eighth-inning relief help through a trade.”
IMO, that trade (or any FA signing) isn’t likely to happen until they have evaluated their in-house talent during Spring Training and early regular season.
Thry
you make fine points as always (especially about Pedro as a 4th or 5th starter - he’d be worth a shot - as in the same money friggen Livan Hernandez made and he’d last longer too)
just about every ‘winning’ team would love to have Blackburn as their ‘average’ 4th starter - considering he was a ROOKIE last year as well as his K/BB and K/9 were well above average (his ERA wasn’t bad either and if anything it was inflated by about a half-dozen starts throughout the entire year with a couple bad ones in September)
Blackburn is a guy this team needs to invest in.
Sane
“IMO, that trade (or any FA signing) isn’t likely to happen until they have evaluated their in-house talent during Spring Training and early regular season.”
Well said; I feel we have enough pitchers to not need to worry (Bonser, Crain, Mulvey, Duensing, Korecky, Swarzak, Humber, etc, etc). the offense has always been the main issue. i dont feel we have the talent on that side of the ball as we do in pitching
by the way, did that ‘great baseball mind’ of yours find your car keys?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with some of you people? We’re talking about Eric Gagne here; he’s a shell of his former self. This isn’t the same guy who dominated the National League a few years ago. Some of you people make it sound like we just throw away a chance at a World Series because we walked from the “artist-formerly-known-as-Eric-Gagne.”
Some of the comments on this particular thread are just plain dumb; “fire fatass Bill Smith?” “Bill Smith doesn’t have a eye for talent?”
Seriously, what the hell, people?
Joe Crede signs with the Giants by the end of the week. Book it.
Todd Anthony -
What your sensing is a general frustration that this front office has failed to do anything to fill obvious needs on a team that has potential.
And some of them, are starting to feel duped, especially in regards to promises that this team made in terms of getting their stadium.
I understand the frustration, but the comments are downright ludicrous. What I like to see us add a solid 8th inning setup guy? Of course? A power-hitting RH third basemen? Absolutely…but to accuse the front office of getting us excited, then DELIBERATELY pulling the rug out from under us is borderline asinine.
What were the promises that were made? Who made these promises?
Is there a strawman left out there you haven’t used, T?
And here I thought you actually read the comments posted here. Must just be mine. Your morbid fascination continues.
There were just as many upset that the Twins wanted Gagne as there are now those upset the Twins don’t want Gagne.
And I agree with those that find it absurd that people think the Twins would intentionally pull their offer…as though they were somehow bluffing this whole time.
Especially when it risks souring negotiations with Boras’s other client, Crede.
It isn’t just patient all-time great Manny Ramirez who’s available, but enough All-Stars and stars to form their own very good team.
That would actually be an event worth seeing. And a move I wouldn’t put past Scott Boras. 
msm,
“by the way, did that ‘great baseball mind’ of yours find your car keys?”
No problem.
Now, where am I parked?
And what was I driving?
Unless this ‘trade’ is absolutely iminent there’s no reason to pull this offer, especially if you actually want a shot at Crede.
If the only way to sign Crede is to sign Gagne…then I don’t want Crede.
Why do you always bash bloggers or bash quotes, you rarely have anything constructive to say.
Is this the part where I have to go back and pull up my entire posting history to try and prove something to somebody who obviously didn’t care enough to read the posts when I actually wrote them?
Who am I?
Where am I?
What day is it?
Do I have a job?
Is it worth getting up for?
Ah, morning amnesia…..nature’s way of keeping you from waking up screaming.
Dilbert
I want Crede.
Baker and Slowey rather than Peavy? Are you serious? I like the young guys as much or more than most and those 2 in my opinion are the best the Twins have on staff and that includes Liriano(unless he can regain his form).
I am not upset that they didn’t sign Gagne. I will be upset however if they don’t address their bullpen needs with someone as good or better than Gagne. I will also be upset if we start the season with the Harris/Buscher platoon at third when there are FA options out there that won’t cost much.
Lets hope Billy has something up his sleeve and that it doesn’t involve trading Delmon Young. That will be the trade that will bite him in the butt if they move Delmon for some stiff like Kouz.
For those of you who dont think gagne is worth a 1 yr $3 mil contract I’m glad your not running this team. I doubt very much that pulling out of the deal was for financal reasons. I’m very curious now as to what kind of trade offer they got.
Right, Yapper. We’ve got two third basemen and five outfielders, so that would be where the trade bait is. They have to keep Harris because he can play short, but nobody would want Buscher. They just signed Kubel, so are probably keeping him, but nobody would want Cuddyer. So that leaves one guy, Delmon, which could turn out to be a mistake.
At some point you have to seriously start to wonder if the Pohlad kids have instructed Smith not to add any payroll, for estate tax or other reasons, and he’s covering for them.
gotta love those conspiracy theories esp. this one the day after the Twins spent $7+ mil to extend Kubel.
Gagne would be worth it only if he’s cheap - ditto for Crede.
Last year we were desperate for a CF and an OF bat, and thought our BP was a strength.
This year we have two CF, a glut of OF bats, five at least passable SP, and are desperate for a 3B and BP help.
Next year, we will surely have at least two 3B to choose from, a glut of BP arms, and will be desperate for a SP.
Mudcat, sometimes trades don’t involve current major leaguers. There are teams out there interested in players (pitchers in particular) who are considered ready or near-ready to make the jump to the Bigs… and the Twins have a few of those who appear to be blocked in this organization.
Just sayin’
Crikket, who would you include in that list? Duensing? Mulvey? Swarzak?
“I doubt very much that pulling out of the deal was for financal reasons. I’m very curious now as to what kind of trade offer they got.’
BC, that would seem to be the logical explanation - that a trade is iminent so the Twins step away from Gagne/Boras. Why announce it though? Make the trade first, then tell Gagne all deals are off.
Walter that’s what intrigues me it almost seems like they were ready to pull the trigger and then someone called them with a better offer.
any update as to why the offer was pulled?? I’m not unhappy about it but would love more info!
Dennys Reyes sign with anybody yet?
gotta love those conspiracy theories esp. this one the day after the Twins spent $7+ mil to extend Kubel.
What does signing Kubel have to do with adding payroll?
Kubel is (was) arb eligible this year and next, and unless you’re proposing the Twins were prepared to release him outright, or trade him for someone making the MLB minimum, Kubel’s salary in 2009 and 2010 is very little different now than it would have been had he gone through arbitration this year and next.
It’s like T insisting the Twins ‘have done plenty to improve the team’ by signing Punto and selecting some stiff in the rule 5 draft.
Kubel’s expected 2009 salary was already in the budget.
They may or may not be getting our hopes up, and then not acting. I just think it is a bizarre coincidence that every single player they’ve expressed interest in, every one, they’ve not pulled the trigger on. Wiggy, who they loved while he wasn’t availble. Gagne. Blake……every name they’ve leaked has not become a Twin. I doubt that they are misleading us on purpose, but from the outside it seems odd that they have not pulled the trigger on one of them.
I’ve said all along they should fix the BP from inside, and fix 3B from the outside. So, this individual decision doesn’t bother me so much, it is the pattern that does. It’s like being Tyner and trying real hard, but never getting a hit….
What’s Boof’s role in the BP going to be? I think he would be a good set-up man. He hasn’t really shone in long relief. If the Twins need an 8th-inning guy, he should step up or have another home found for him. He’s just taking up space the way it is now.
If the Twins plan is to rely on the likes of Boof Bonser for the set-up role, then god help us all.
MWW I really dont think they’re just trying to get our hopes up with this move. They’ve said all along that finding bullpen help was the most important thing. I’m thinking an old drade offer they discussed earlier this off season has some teeth again.
It’s like T insisting the Twins ‘have done plenty to improve the team’ by signing Punto and selecting some stiff in the rule 5 draft.
Except I haven’t. People demand the Twins “do something”, and I simply have pointed out that “somethings” have been done.
If you agree with them is entirely up to you.
I want Crede.
I wouldn’t mind Crede (though I’d prefer Wigginton/Atkins/Beltre/etc).
But if Crede is contingent on Gagne…forget it. Especially when it comes to Boras. I wouldn’t put it past him to work out the “Gagne = Crede” deal then go ahead and take Crede elsewhere once they signed Gagne.
“the point is that the ‘league average’ takes in count all the bad pitchers in all the bad teams.
If you want a winning team (i.e a team that can bring in a championship - and I hate to explain what winning means but fans have been pretty complacent about the Twins’ lack of success) your #4 and $5 pitchers have to be better than the tail end of below average MLB pitchers”
I’m not going to get into another argument about what you feel is a lack of success, but you aren’t making a lot of sense with what you are talking about regarding ‘average’ pitchers.
Of course average takes into account the bad pitchers on the bad teams. It takes into account EVERY pitcher. The great pitchers on the bad teams. The bad pitchers on the great teams. The great pitchers on the great teams. All of them. And when it comes down to it, Blackburn was better than league average.
And besides - the Phillies already prove your statement wrong. Nick Blackburn probably would have been the 3 starter for the Phillies last year, behind Hamels and Moyer. You could probably make an argument that he would have been at least ‘tied’ for the 2 position with Moyer. The guys in the back end of their rotation were probably ‘typical’ 4 and 5 starters in the league. They won without having 5 above average starters in their rotation.
One final point - the 5 starter is pretty pointless to playoff success anyway. With all the off days, teams go to 3 and 4 man rotations. Perkins would move to the pen. Having a strong 5 starter helps you get to the playoffs, sure, but succeed in the playoffs? Not really.
To put it bluntly, the Twins would NOT extend an offer to a player and then pull it when he’s about to accept just to screw with fans.
For starters, it does nothing to make the fans happy.
For seconders, it risks angering both the player and agent, which could damage relations with other deals (think pissing off Boras is a good way to get Beltre to sign?)
If the Twins pulled the deal at the last second, there is something else in the works. And if it was serious enough that they cancelled this deal…then odds are we’ll hear about it in due time.
But the Twins have no reason to reveal any other trade talks, especially if they’re deep enough to mean another deal is no longer required.
WJ, if on the off-chance the Twins pulled their offer b/c a trade was imminent, they did the right thing by tellind Gagne up front and not waiting to tell him until after the theoretical trade was done. The guy deserves a chance to negotiate with any other interested clubs. He deserves to know where he stands. Spring training is 2 weeks away. Why yank his chain?
Boneyard, good point. I guess the teams could reach a theoretical agreement on a trade but still take several days to work out all the details. On the other hand, I would doubt if Gagne is refusing to talk to all other teams while waiting for the Twins to sign him.
I agree with boneyard.
wow now i heard it all from the twins. we all need to understand that they will not make a move this year. gardy says they dont need anyone so they wont.there is no trade going to happen all smith is doing is covering his a– and lying again about making a move.we can also forget about getting creede now too. the only move we need is bill smith and terry ryan moving out of minnesota.
T,
Good solid points. Thank you.
I’m not sure why anyone would even talk to Gagne in the first place. Signing him would have been the worst Twins signing in years and that’s saying alot!
Saw him pitch in Milwaukee last year and he would have been the worst guy in our pen by far. He was NOT the answer!
I have a feeling Bill Smith is going to make a big trade, and my gut tells me it will not be good for us!
AM, sorry about not responding to your question sooner… been working.
Yes, any of those pitchers would be possibilities. Humber’s out of options, so I think he’s clearly trade bait. Whether anyone wants him or not is, of course, the question. Twins also have some minor league CFs that other teams might covet and with Span and Gomez both around, what are the chances the Twins will need someone else through their arbitration years?
I’m not suggesting any of those guys are being dealt. My point was simply that just because the Twins have an apparent abundance of OFs doesn’t mean one of them are involved in this supposed imminent deal. There are decent corner OFs still on the FA market so I’d be surprised if the Twins are able to get anything remotely close to fair value for someone like Young right now. If they could, they would have already.
How about this.
SIGN SHEETS, and trade for huston street and atkins.
sign sheets and trade for beltre
sign sheets already, he is a bargain!
ryan, ryan, ryan…(sigh)
I have visions of Jerry Bell at the head of the conference table, Billy Smith to his left. “I just hung up with Jimmy Pohlad. We are to continue the strategy of disappointing fans and pissing off players and their agents by dangling carrots and pulling them back. The results are terrific so far.”
With the pethora of FA’s still out there, the dam will break at some point. I think there will be a flurry of activitiy. As players sign, needs will change, and trades will be made. It will be interesting to see if the Twins are involved.
How about sign Crede and Pedro.
The results are great so far. They are selling tickets, they are making money, and everyone says “they are small market and still succeed”. What’s not working?
I say we trade our #23 pick for 3 years of affordable Juan Cruz.
I’d be thrilled if they signed Sheets. It won’t happen, but it would be great (only if they then packaged some of their “excess” SP for a hitter or two).
Twins already signed R.A. Dickey. What other suitable FAs are left?
This has obviously been a weird off-season due to the changing psychology of the market. I really believe we’re just scratching the surface on what will eventually be a complete collapse in player values. FAs remain unsigned because clubs are hunkering down after figuring out how grim the revenue picture is going to get, and because agents will be the last to cave in, despite the ill effects to their clients.
Looks like Bill Smith’s bluff got called. He’s always saving face saying, “we tried, we just couldn’t work out a contract.” When someone actually gets ready to accept the contract that’s been discussed, he breaks off negotiations??? What a frickin’ tool. I could care less if we have Gagne or not, I think our bullpen will be fine, but I am getting SICK of the way BS (feel free to use your own words for Bill Smith’s initials) operates. I’m still hoping the market will come down and we can get Wiggy for a 1 year deal, the dude can hit.
Why are people so gung-ho over Atkins? The guy’s production has declined steadily for the past three years, and his home-roads are petrifying (i.e. he hits well in Denver, worse on the road). Why the hell would we give up any of our young prospects for someone like that?
Yes, Wiggy can hit…But didn’t you hear? His defense is “adequate.” Which must mean that Buscher’s is “absolutely horrendous” in comparison.
i have an ugly feeling there is a delmon young trade on the horizon and i dont want to see any more…sign crede and if ya dont want gagne, lets go to spring training with the kids and see what develops…maybe there is a diamond in the rough that can add to the bullpen…of the twins needs the bullpen is the one i worry about the least…we need some power in this lineup to help morneau, kubel etc..how many times do we need to bring this up to mr smith….i believe he has a hearing and reading problem….
Last year, the Twins signed Craig Monroe and insisted on a CF in the Santana trade, before they evaluated Denard Span at ST.
They signed Livan when Blackburn and Perkins were still question marks.
They signed Everett before Punto raised his 2007 BA by 70 points.
They signed Lamb, before they realized that Harris was a 3B-only.
Maybe evaluating in-house talent in Spring Training and early regualar season, BEFORE signing their replacements would help clear their vision as to what their REAL deficiencies are.
sane, most years there are no FAs left to sign after spring training starts, and certainly not weeks into the season. How would you fill the gaps? If you and everyone else know that some guys actually are bad, who do you trade to fill in gaps?
i have an ugly feeling there is a delmon young trade on the horizon and i dont want to see any more…
I’m in the same boat. I’m excited that there’s potential to upgrade, but I’d hate to see it at the expense of giving up on Delmon already. I still think in the long run the Twins will rather have him everyday than Cuddy.
mwww: This isn’t like most years. ST’s two weeks away and Manny still doesn’t have a home.
If hindsight was 20/20 vision then the Twins would know exactly what to expect from the players they have and any FA they might acquire. Too bad only a handfull of the people who post here have that ability.
With all this talk of players being willing to sign 1-year deals…how long until we see some BIZARRE moves.
Manny on the Orioles? Sheets on the Pirates (exaggerating I know).
If these guys (including Dunn, Abreu, Sheets, Gagne, Crede, etc) all start settling for one year deals…the 2010 offseason could be one of the most chaotic EVER.
BC, thanks for acknowledging my ability.
mike,
In most years, my plan is less feasible.
This year it appears to be more feasible with the glut of FA’s available.
The Twins would have to be flexible enough to evaluate in-house talent and simultaneously monitor the available FA’s.
Flexible is not exactly their M.O., but the longer they wait before their alternatives disappear, the better.
Last year, if they had waited too long, and Monroe, Livan, Everett and Lamb had signed elsewhere, the results would have been fabulous.
WJ, BC,
I have 20-20 hindsight also.
But its somewhat painful to see out my hind…….
I don’t see Delmon being dealt unless it’s as part of a multi-player blockbuster.
Maybe they weren’t convinced Gagne was healthy? Who knows, all speculation at this point. Whatever the reason, I’m glad they passed on him. I’d rather see them throw away innings to one of the prospects rather than to perpetuating this guy’s washed up career.
What are the odds? Our Twins scout at the Crede workout was watching Crede hit numerous 450 ft batting practice bombs. He then got to see crede throw 95 mph across the infield while laying out for evrey ball in sight without a bit of pain in the back. Then this scout gets wind the Twins are about to sign a deal with Gange and realizing that the Twins only have so much money to spend called Bill Smith and said, NOOO!!! BILL, PUT DOWN YOUR PEN!!! CREDE IS BACK!!! Probably not what happened, but it would be awesome if it did.
My guess is either (a) we will have a trade done by the end of tomorrow, or (b) we received a very recent medical report re: Gagne that made us pull the offer.
Crede signs with the Giants by the end of the week…Please, for the love of god, book it.
Does anybody here have some insight on how the FO operates during the offseason? I understand that they decide what their needs are? It appears that it’s BP help and an upgrade at 3B.
That’s fine, but what bothers me is that it appears like the FO is so to speak “kicking the tires as we go.”
I would think that once the need is identified, they would be pouring over all the statistics and scouting reports and would rank all players at that position, whether their a FA, possible acquisition or in-house.
I imagine a large board that lists all players that meet whatever offensive and defensive skill sets their looking for, even players that they have just a remote chance of obtaining.
Then, target these specific players one by one and go down the list. If no deal can be made with players that would upgrade the team, we stay with what we currently have.
It appears they have targeted Gagne. Whether you think it’s a good idea or not, the Twins liked him. Why then would they not sign him if he was targeted and willing to sign for what they supposedly offered him?
I am hoping that something is in the works. Otherwise, this does not make sense to me. Maybe I am too impatient.
It must be harder to execute the plan…if you have one… than it seems.
I have a wondeful blueberry muffin recipe for big strong sweaty Twins fans
