Crede drawing new offers; Twins on hold
Posted on January 29th, 2009 – 11:55 AMBy Joe Christensen
Free agent third baseman Joe Crede looked good in Wednesday’s workout in Arizona, triggering some new contract offers, but none so far from the Twins, an insider told the Star Tribune today.
The Twins had Sean Johnson, their Western Scouting Supervisor, at the workout, but no word yet on how they graded Crede’s performance. Crede took 75 swings and fielded 50-60 ground balls.
Another team reportedly interested in Crede is the Giants. Like Eric Gagne, Crede is represented by Scott Boras.
Crede, 30, batted .248/.314/.460 in 97 games for the White Sox last season, with 17 home runs and 55 RBI. He had a herniated disk in his back in 2007, limiting him to 47 games, and basically the corrective surgery didn’t take.
So Crede had the procedure done again, and this time there is hope he can regain his All-Star form. Crede is believed to be seeking a one-year deal with a base salary above the $5.1 million he made last season, along with incentives.
172 Responses to "Crede drawing new offers; Twins on hold"
The Twins’ are so boring in the off-season. That may be good. It may be bad. It’s hard to say at this point. I can say this with certainty….it is very boring and all too predictable.
Any truth to the story during the last all star game when Crede told M&M boys that he wanted to play with them?
Well, if they suddenly pulled their offer for Gagne, perhaps there IS something in the wings that is slowing their interest in Crede.
Seriously, a one year deal for $6M? Make an offer, Twins. Even if it turns out he’s not right, and we end up releasing him mid-year - it’s still worth it. Buscher is a singles hitter who plays poor defense. He drove in plenty of runs last year; he definitely produced for us. I just don’t think it’s smart to rely on that kind of timely hitting again. Adding Crede would give us another possibilty, even if it is a bit of a gamble.
MLB Networks new tag line
“The MLB where there is no off season, except in the upper mid-west.”
Sign him! For once, take a chance on a guy who still has something left!
Crede signs with the Giants by tomorrow….Please, oh please, feel free to BOOK IT.
What an offseason Billy Smith…You…da…man.
Agreed completely he’ll sign elsewhere. The lack of activity by the front office this offseason is unacceptable.
Sign Crede-we need the pop-he can be had for less than Blake and more pop in the bat.
Even if it turns out he’s not right, and we end up releasing him mid-year - it’s still worth it.
The problem is if he’s “not right”, then the Twins have wasted that half-year’s worth of ABs on him instead of somebody else who “couldn’t do worse”.
Because what you’re suggesting is part of the same reasoning that landed Everett and Lamb in Twins unis.
What kind of incentives would be acceptable for Crede?
Must start at least 120 games at 3B?
This is the one guy we may take a chance on that I haven’t been shocked to hear his name. Much more upside potential than Livan, Lamb, Everett, Monroe, Etc.
Sign him.
If we release him mid-year, we still have to pay him the whole contract.
I am not saying that it is unacceptable.
But I am saying, that this isn’t the NFL.
If the Twins were willing to offer the 36 year old Blake two years at 7M per, Crede would seem a reasonable gamble at 1 year for 5M.
I can’t wait to find out what caused the Twins to back off on Gagne (not that I was that fired up about him anyway).For 8M they could have a one year stop gap at Third and some potential Bullpen help, and they were supposedly willing to cough up 14M over two years for Blake.
If there is a trade in the works I would hope Delmon isn’t involved.Count me as one who is less than sure Span will duplicate last years performance,or that GoGo is ready to improve dramatically on last years totals.
I think it’s time to officially move on - accept the fact that they’re paying down the stadium with the 60-80 mil in ‘08-9. It is what it is, react accordingly.
Their Punto crush keeps Casilla at 2B, they don’t want to give up on Harris/Buscher obviously and a healthy Crain and rested Guerrier are “just like a trade!”
So the next logical thing is extend Mauer - offer him something on par with Morneau now when he’d take it, unless they’re willing to pay him whatever he asks for if he has another outstanding season this year.
What do you all think - before or after this season on Joey Sideburns?
Pro: The difference is that I don’t think Blake had much injury trouble through his career.
Crede has back problems (which are pretty important to a player), and Gagne had health issues (and questions surrounding steroid use)
sign him
Just like you signed Mike Lamb
Just like you signed Adam Everett
Just like you signed RonDL
Just like you signed Livan
Just like you signed Tony Bautista
If you don’t sign him who are we going to piss and moan about in the middle of the season when he in underperforming or hurt!!!!!
sane,
Actually in the NFL, while contracts are not guaranteed, if a player is on your roster after they are down to 53, then they are guaranteed. If you sign someone after they are down to 53 the contract isn’t guaranteed and you only have to pay them for the portion of time they are with the club.
dont screw arround billy do nothing smith sign him already you fat looser
….Please, oh please, feel free to BOOK IT.
JKeezy posts this 10 or 15 more times today….BOOK IT!
i have a strange feeling, well i guess most of them are strange, anyway that dy will be traded within a week. sd makes most sense even with len3 saying nothing to it. not sure what kind of bullpen help we could get from them, however.
Crede agrees to the Twins offer.
Just as he is about to sign the contract, Scott Boras informs the Twins that they are “going in a different direction”…………………………………out the door!
As with the Gagne talks being broken off, I’m not that excited about the club not pursuing Crede.
JKC,
Repeated use of the phrase “Book it”, violates the terms of blog membership and is considered a misdemeanor.
Book ‘em Danno!
Crede hit 17 HRs in 97 games for the Sox WITH a bad back. I say sign him.
Off subject, Anyone know anything about Tom “Flash” Gordon?
Former Cy Young winner in the Interplanetary League.
I have always liked Crede.
The Sox fans I work with think the Twins would be stupid not to take a chance on him. Some are even saying they wish the Sox had brought him back.
Sorry, Janet!
I am having a problem staying serious.
Janet, he’s 83 years old… or throws like it anyway.
As for Crede’s workout “triggering new contract offers”, it sounds to me like the Boras propaganda machine is running at full throttle.
Of course the Twins would need to be fairly sure Crede could give them 120 games or so,but for one year I personally don’t think it’s much more of a gamble than expecting a 36 year old to perform up to his previuos standards for two years.As I stated,I would leave Gagne before I would take him,but it seems very odd that they were “close” and then backed off.
If the Twins have found something that they aren’t happy with medically speaking,regarding these two,they should just say so.
I am bias. I love Joe Crede. Living in Chicago, I get to see him play alot. He’s tough and there’s no BS about him. Stealing him from the Sox would be a coup.
Crede turns 31 soon.
Why should you be serious, sane? The only reports we are getting are that the Twins are not doing this, and they are not doing that. This is not intended to slam the FO, I’m just saying it’s hard to stay serious when there’s nothing happening.
how can we accuse them of being cheap if they don’t sign the cheap FA’s in the offseason. YOu have to sign him Bill, we need purpose and direction for our irrational rants. This summer would suck if you didn’t needlessly waste money on cheap FA’s in the offseason, how could we continue to be Twins fans if you didn’t give us a cheap free agent to complain about.
Janet– Gordon is a 41 year old reliever who has been around forever. Had some good years –40+ saves for Boston once and 34 for Philly once.
According to mlbtraderumors— Arizona is interested in him.
They possibly passed on Gagne’s money to pay Crede his 5 mill.
Boneyard,
“Why should you be serious, sane? The only reports we are getting are that the Twins are not doing this, and they are not doing that…..it’s hard to stay serious when there’s nothing happening.
That plus drinking while operating a computer.
I wasn’t serious there, either.
How can Smith sign people like Mike Lamb and Adam Everett and NOT go after Joe Crede when he’s there to be taken?
Sorry….I meant Joe Crede will sign with the Giants by tomorrow. Please feel free to make a mental note of it.
Thanks jkc!
I am glad that we caught it in time.
WJ,
“How can Smith sign people like Mike Lamb and Adam Everett and NOT go after Joe Crede when he’s there to be taken?”
Smith is waiting for his eyebrows to grow back, after last year’s blow-ups.
Too bad you’re joking again, sane. I was going to ask you what you were drinking and try to live vicariously through you. Oh, well.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Giants signed Crede. Interestingly enough, Giants fans make a lot of noise when the Giants sign guys like that because they wonder why the club can’t develop position players in the minors. Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum.
ggk, Kouzmanoff will miss part of ST and potentially part of the season with his surgery.
As far as CreDL goes, I get very skeptical about players who had their last (and only in Crede’s case) before steroid testing. The similarities of Crede’s performance drop off (and injuries) with those of Gagne, Rincon, Jay Gibbons, Garry Matthews Jr., Andy Pettite, RonDL White and company are uncanny.
no thank you
Walter Johnson,
The likely difference between Lamb & Everett in 2008 vs. Crede in 2009 is that Bill Smith and the front Office weren’t sure in 2008 what to expect at ss/3B so spent small $$$$ for cover.
Maybe they think, while 3b is still a concern, it is not the black hole they thought it might be/become in 2008.
Regards,
Thanks for the info.
Good observations about Crede, thry. Although, he did hit one dinger every 20 AB when he did play last year, suggesting his one 30 HR year was not that big of an aberration. Still, I’m with you. The other thing is, there are other clubs interested in Crede and I doubt the Twins want to get in a bidding war at any level. It’s not their style. There was no other market for Lamb, Everett, et al. that I recall. I could be wrong, of course.
[…] Joe Crede apparently “looked good” in a workout on Wednesday. The Giants are still rumored to have some interest in Crede and a strong showing […]
Just out of curiosity, Janet, why the interest in Flash?
T -
I am with you. Part of me wants to believe that this sudden withdrawal from the Gagne talks and dragging our feet on Crede are related to a trade in the works.
More than likely not, but still an interesting theory.
Lamb and Everett were signed so quickly that no other market had time to develop.
Everett was signed one day after his non-tender.
Crede’s carrer onbase % is .305. He hasn’s played a full season i two years. Why are people so enamored by him?
I live in AZ. I figured he would be a cheap, make the team. sort of deal and was wondering if he had anything left.
Crede is a good-fielding third-baseman with power who went .283, 30-94 in 2006.
No other FA 3B has that type of cred.
“Crede’s carrer onbase % is .305. He hasn’s played a full season i two years. Why are people so enamored by him?”
Power and defense. Injuries are a fact of life. But players recover. How many games was Kubel able to play following his injury? Twins still signed him.
Considered it book’d JKC.
Crede’s 2006 season: .283/.323/.506 (107 OPS+)
Wigginton’s 2008 season: .285/.350/.526 (128 OPS+)
I’d take the guy who had the best season and it was last season and not 3 seasons ago and is not hurt.
jkucenic-Do you promise to never post again if Crede does not sign with SF.Enough already!
Does anybody here have some insight on how the FO operates during the offseason? I understand that they decide what their needs are? It appears that it’s BP help and an upgrade at 3B.
That’s fine, but what bothers me is that it appears like the FO is so to speak “kicking the tires as we go.”
I would think that once the need is identified, they would be pouring over all the statistics and scouting reports and would rank all players at that position, whether their a FA, possible acquisition or in-house.
I imagine a large board that lists all players that meet whatever offensive and defensive skill sets their looking for, even players that they have just a remote chance of obtaining.
Then, target these specific players one by one and go down the list. If no deal can be made with players that would upgrade the team, we stay with what we currently have.
It appears they have targeted Gagne. Whether you think it’s a good idea or not, the Twins liked him. Why then would they not sign him if he was targeted and willing to sign for what they supposedly offered him?
I am hoping that something is in the works. Otherwise, this does not make sense to me. Maybe I am too impatient.
It must be harder to execute the plan…if you have one… than it seems.
No Crede………….
Picture this guys a one game playoff with the Sox and Crede takes out AJ at the plate to score the winning run how sweet would that be? I hate the Sox more then any other team and stealing Crede to stick it to them would be sweet.
Did I mention “good fielding”?
BC of ND: You forgot about the part where Crede misses the playoffs on the DL.
Wigginton would be good too.
“Why then would they not sign him if he was targeted and willing to sign for what they supposedly offered him?”
The market changed and the Twins suddenly realized that they could do better?
Some new development changed the picture?
Just guessing.
Quick question: Do all twins fans hate AJ? I have no beefs with him. I certainly loved his tactless razzing when he hit that homer in the divisional series against the A’s. And I still like it now even when he is on another team. Dudes a dick, but at least he is entertaining.
thry can you look up crede compared to cuddy the last 3 yrs. with games played? probably not much diff and we’re paying cuddy how much?
If a guy only played parts of the past two seasons because of an injury, yes, his best season would be three years ago.
Not sure why the guy thinks he’s entitled to a raise considering the considerable risk that goes with his contract, especially considering the depressed free agent market this year.
It appears they have targeted Gagne. Whether you think it’s a good idea or not, the Twins liked him. Why then would they not sign him if he was targeted and willing to sign for what they supposedly offered him?
Because (to use your big board metaphor), I would imagine that the Twins wouldn’t focus on one guy at a time…but rather spread out their communications to have many options open at once.
While they had targeted Gagne, they’ve also likely got a few other targets…one of which is apparently ranked higher than Gagne.
GCOkermos I’m a glass half full guy so that scenario didn’t cross my mind. I like to hate AJ i still respect him as a player but he is easy to hate.
BS cannot spend money. He needs to save for donuts and hotdogs. Hope he resigns or is fired soon. He is the McHale of teh Twins.
yapper, then maybe BS should fire Gardy and make himself manager. Coach this team right to the playoffs!
Who was the last Twins GM to be fired?
What century?
I imagine a large board that lists all players that meet whatever offensive and defensive skill sets their looking for, even players that they have just a remote chance of obtaining.
The 3B situation has actually been pretty interesting since the last trading deadline. What is known that the front office did (chronologically) :
* They tried to work out a deal with the Mariners for Beltre
* They tried to work out a deal with the Rockies for Atkins
* For some unknown reason it was leaked that Beltre (another Boras client) put the Twins in his no trade list this post season (so I suspect there may have been additional inquiries)
* They made an unsuccessful yet competitive offer to Blake
* They brought up Wigginton, at least internally
* They brought up DeRosa, at least internally
* They followed Crede’s workout this week.
Meanwhile, they are evaluating how a Buscher/Harris situation might work. At this point for some reason it seems that Gardy has Smith’s ear (see: Punto, Nick, starting shortstop) and if he whispers words of non-wisdom like “Buschie is a gamer” and “Buschie will be great next year” to Billy, in combination with the frustrations in trying to get a third baseman they like (see top 4 points above), whould make doing nothing easier…
yapper is that you jimmybee?
Because (to use your big board metaphor), I would imagine that the Twins wouldn’t focus on one guy at a time…but rather spread out their communications to have many options open at once.
While they had targeted Gagne, they’ve also likely got a few other targets…one of which is apparently ranked higher than Gagne.
Yeah, that’s one possible explanation.
You’d think though, with all that diffused focus and widespread communication and all, that somehow, somewhere at least one of all those multiple options would lead to something other than JoeC or LENIII ultimately reporting the Twins have done not a GD thing.
Roll the dice scenerio: Sign Crede; trade Harris, Mulvey, Humber and AA/AAA pitcher to Brewers for JJ Hardy; keep Buscher and Tolbert around in the event Crede’s back bonks out again.
More likely scenerio by B.S.: Go with Harris and Buscher at 3B and the Twins are now after a better setup man option then Gagne. Crede goes to Giants to play on real grass and gets more money on a one-yr contract.
Opinion: I think Harris and Buscher combine to hit 18 to 20 homers, 90 RBI, 80 runs and playing decent (but not outstanding) D.
BS: “we liked Crede, but other teams liked him more. We just didn’t feel he was worth what he eventually got”
as i said a week or two ago, here is what Joe and LaVelle need to write until spring training:
“Nothing happened today”
Put it on a loop, send it to your editor every day, and spend time with your new kid……
GENO…I promise…But, guess what. Crede IS going to sign with the Giants, so today ain’t your day.
Twins Buzzard, you forgot to suggest starting Gomez in AAA.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
PASS
There is no reason any team should give him a base salary equal or greater to what he made in 2008 plus incentives.
Crede
2006-.283/.323/.506
2007-.216/.258/.317
2008-.248/.314/.460
Career-.257/.306/.447
Cuddyer
2006-.284/.362/.504
2007-.276/.356/.433
2008-.249/.330/.369
Career-.268/.344/.441
AB HR RBI for 2006 2007 2008
Crede 544/30/94; 167/4/22; 335/17/55
Cuddy 557/24/109; 547/16/81;249/3/36
But, guess what. Crede IS going to sign with the Giants, so today ain’t your day.
So you’re saying we should….book it?
T,
Good point.
“While they had targeted Gagne, they’ve also likely got a few other targets…one of which is apparently ranked higher than Gagne.”
If that’s true, than I look forward to this new development.
i think buscher “gets after it” and is a “battler” he must also play strong defense because that is really high on gardy’s wish list and the reason punto will play here forever or until toby comes up. he may be a “take charge” guy like gardy was in his hay-day and he fields a lot like gardy did, ramble, ramble……
mike wants wins says:January 29th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
“BS: “we liked Crede, but other teams liked him more. We just didn’t feel he was worth what he eventually got”
as i said a week or two ago, here is what Joe and LaVelle need to write until spring training:
“Nothing happened today””
THANKFULLY!!!
Regards,
someone else typed taht, which is why I don’t put my real email address in there….
Mike wants to win– I do all the work comparing Crede and Cuddy and you get the credit! I guess I should pay attention to what name is in the box!
at least one of all those multiple options would lead to something other than JoeC or LENIII ultimately reporting the Twins have done not a GD thing.
You mean like an offer to Casey Blake? And investigations into what it would take to get Beltre (sounds like Blackburn/Slowey/Perkins) or Atkins (sounds like Span/Atkins)
Again, your mistaking “trying” with “doing”.
As far as Crede to the Giants…like it’s been said numerous times on numerous reliable sites, Crede wants to rehab.
If the Twins and Giants put out equal offers, who do you think will get Crede?
Let me give you a hint: it won’t be the team with turf.
If the Twins want Crede, they’re going to have to come OVER THE TOP of any other offer to convince him the extra salary for one year is worth the risk of reinjury and thus no payout a year later.
Like how Detroit came OVER THE TOP of other teams (including one which made a multiyear offer) by giving Lyon a chance at their closing job.
I have to agree that I find the report that he’s expecting more than the 5 mil he got last year, plus incentives, a bit farfetched. I dont think he’ll get it from the Giants.
So we finally have a perfect chance to sign a third baseman who isnt in his late 30s, or coming off a season in Japan…and we sit on our asses. Cut funding for the new stadium until the Twins can prove they are willing to spend money on players we need.
JimC, you’d hope not. At some point, you’d think that rational thought MIGHT make it into these kinds of negotiations.
You mean like an offer to Casey Blake? And investigations into what it would take to get Beltre (sounds like Blackburn/Slowey/Perkins) or Atkins (sounds like Span/Atkins)
Again, your mistaking “trying” with “doing”.
As far as Crede to the Giants…like it’s been said numerous times on numerous reliable sites, Crede wants to rehab.
If the Twins and Giants put out equal offers, who do you think will get Crede?
Let me give you a hint: it won’t be the team with turf.
If the Twins want Crede, they’re going to have to come OVER THE TOP of any other offer to convince him the extra salary for one year is worth the risk of reinjury and thus no payout a year later.
Like how Detroit came OVER THE TOP of other teams (including one which made a multiyear offer) by giving Lyon a chance at their closing job.
Add all that together and what do you have?
The Twins have DONE not a GD thing.
T, I’m not so sure about Crede choosing the Giants over the Twins, money being equal. Two reasons: familiarity with pitchers/teams in the AL and that ballpark in SF. I know the Dome hasnt been real friendly to RH hitters, but from what I hear, SF doesn’t seem like the place a guy would go to have one good season at the plate to build value for another FA run the following offseason.
We have to give our front office credit, there is a reason they hold the jobs they’re in!! All of our complaints about them not doing anything during the off-season is a waste of time. We know that we have a small budget, but we also know that we still win with the teams we have. Yeah, it be nice get a 3B, but I wouldn’t give up the players to get Garret Atkins or some of the over-hyped players that are out there. None of us have the ability to be in the position of Bill Smith. Lets just see what happens and if a deal arises great, if not, we are still going to have a good team, otherwise shut the f*** up!!
Go Twinks…
Here is the math with the third base openings around the league:
The Twins and the Giants are looking for starters. The Cardinals and the Red Sox are looking for insurances for Glaus and Lowell. The Phillies are looking for a back up. The White Sox should be looking but will try to fill in with what they have. The following are yet unsigned free agents that played third base with the last season:
Rich Aurilia
Joe Crede
Nomar Garciaparra
Ramon Martinez
Juan Uribe
Ty Wigginton
Logic says that Crede and Wigginton will most likely end up with the teams that need a starter and the rest will fill in their benches with the remaining 4.
If Crede is asking for a base salary of above $5.1 million it will depend on how much more above?
Last year well injured, according to Fangraphs, he had a 1.8 win value. Which by their estimates of $4.5 million per win value, he was worth
cw12 i agree with what you said except the last part cuz there’ nothing much else to talk about and we’re all wetting our pants waiting for ST to start.
I agree, I can’t wait for ball to start!! What about Keith Foulke at a minor league deal??
Crede’s salary is pretty inconsequential. The Twins have the payroll space, and any deal will likely be for one year, or one plus an option.
The only questions the Twins should be asking about Crede (or Wigginton) are: What do we think of their ability to improve the team, and (in Crede’s case) what do we think of his health.
IMO, if Crede’s a good bet to be healthy (and the Twins should have a better opinion on that than any of us) there is almost no question they are a better team with him than without. If for no other reason than the defensive improvement over 100+ games of Buscher would be worth it almost regardless what Crede hits.
I accidently hit the submit button,here is my full post…for what it’s worth!
If Crede is asking for a base salary of above $5.1 million it will depend on how much more above?
Last year well injured, according to Fangraphs, he had a 1.8 win value. Which by their estimates of $4.5 million per win value, he was worth about 8.1 million…a relative bargain.
If healthy, you could atleast expect 2-2.5 win value. If your lucky, if he had a year like he did in 2006, he was a 4 win player.
He could be a fairly good bargain if it’s not much over $5.1 million.
I also never question the president, congress, or anyone else who’s job I don’t have (like wall street millionaires). I mean, I don’t have their job, what right do I have to discuss anything about how they do it?
We should re-sign Dennys Reyes and either Crede or Wigginton and be done with it.
The Twins have DONE not a GD thing.
Twins signed Punto and Kubel, as well as aquired Dickey.
Again, “somethings” have been done. The real issue is how you feel about said things.
thrylos:
The White Sox should be looking but will try to fill in with what they have.
Didn’t the Sox sign that 3B from Cuba? Or is he not currently in their plans to start the season?
Columbo i agree with both you and Chief that money is not the major issue here hell i read somewhere that the Twins opening day payroll will only be $58 million. I think were going to hear about a bigger deal soon that’s why they backed off on Gagne.
I say all clubs interested should offer sealed contract and place it on the floor, make him pick it up and open them by himself, see if he can actually move and bend over for ground balls, if he can, he gets the highest offer on the table (floor) and lets start spring training. We are talking bottom of the free agent prospects now, Gagne, Crede, Dunn, Gonzales & Gordon.
Can Alexi “The Cuban Missle” Ramirez play 3B for the Sox?
I know mike, you have the right to question anyone, but don’t be an idiot about it!
Ummmm … he wants 5.1 mill? Well it’s not my money, so sign him!
mww: If Bill Smith does a poor job as GM…you’re life for the most part goes unaffected (sure you may find yourself needing to find something to fill the void during the postseason, but that’s about it)
Meanwhile, a poor job by the Senate, Congress, or Pres could ruin the country. Quite literally.
SF doesn’t seem like the place a guy would go to have one good season at the plate to build value for another FA run the following offseason.
That’s a good point. I think ultimately it comes down to if Crede is more willing to risk injury for better offensive numbers…or bypass an injury risk and hope to still cash in simply by proving he can still play “everyday”
the problem with “idiot” is that no one can agree on an operational defintion in each instance. Hence a free market of ideas, even if some are less equal than others.
And, as for me, I am not wise enough to judge all of these comments. Some are so far off reality that I’m pretty sure they should not have been uttered. But, most are about the same, and I have no idea who is right. Is Wiggy any good or not, and should they pursue him? We just don’t know for sure. So, discussing and arguing that kind of thing makes sense to me.
mike,
Decisions made by the President, Congress and Wall Street bankers can @#$%-up our lives quicker than Twins FO decisions.
We MUST cricize those people if their actions affect us.
Taxation without……whatever!
Sorry, T!
Plagiarism is a hobby for me.
sane,
“no taxation without representation”.
I don’t think we have to worry about any shortage of either on. In fact, when does representation NOT lead to taxation?
For all of those out there that want the Twins to do “something” for the sake of “something” - I don’t get it? There is some rationale for standing pat:
1) Deep recession - do you think the Twins are going to draw anywhere near last years attendance?
2) Marginal improvements by position players - Harris, Buscher, Crain, Span, Young and Gomez should all show some marginal improvements.
3) Marginal improvements by pitchers - Liriano and Blackburn for sure should show improvements over last year and Baker, Slowey and maybe Perkins should show equal if not slightly better numbers.
Add that all up and you’ll see less fans at the Dome (regardless if this the last year - good riddance) and a team that should win 92 games. Book it!
mike,
Criticizing the FO is everyone’s right.
Criticizing the government is everyone’s obligation.
One of baseball’s greatest eras, if not THE greatest era, was during the Great Depression. People turn to baseball in dark times.
Someone on this blog said that
“he has the right to criticize a surgeon who kills 90% of his patients, even though HE would have killed them all.
IMO that justifies the novice’s right to criticize “experts”.
Someone on this blog said that
“he has the right to criticize a surgeon who kills 90% of his patients, even though HE would have killed them all.”
IMO that justifies the novice’s right to criticize “experts”.
My bad!
I thought that it choked on the first attempt.
Walter Johnson,
Also movies, particularly “Horror” movies. I think the Top 5 (don’t remember how/who rated) “Horror” movies of all time were from the Depression.
Regards,
Didn’t the Sox sign that 3B from Cuba? Or is he not currently in their plans to start the season?
They did sign Dayan Viciedo. There are 2 problems with him: he is 19 and he ballooned to the size of Dmitri Young. Right now he projects as an OF/1B/DH. Loooks like their third baseman will be a platoon of Fields and Wilson Betemit
great post at 2:16 sane. I may quote that to my kids.
they were 20+ mill under the 07 payroll budget last year even with several bad signings. they are 20+ mill under 07 again now even assuming attendance could be down this year. next year they will be going into a new stadium built with some taxpayer money so don’t feel real bad if they spend a little to take a chance on improving the team. if they don’t spend it they won’t lower ticket prices it goes in one of the pohlad kids pockets. they are making money they can afford it!
please don’t lose any sleep worrying about the pohlads going on food stamps becasue they sign a player and he doesn’t work out.
the Dragon,
And alcohol.
sane says:January 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
“mike,
Criticizing the FO is everyone’s right.
Criticizing the government is everyone’s obligation.”
sane,
You’re a bit Liberal for my tastes. 
Regards,
WJ could you say that in your James Earl Jones voice for me.
please don’t lose any sleep worrying about the pohlads going on food stamps becasue they sign a player and he doesn’t work out.
Nobody’s worrying about the Pohlads. I’m more worried about the impact on the Twins if money/time is wasted on players that don’t work.
BC, “People turn to baseball in dark times” or “Alcohol”?
At one point last season teams threw 6 or 7 left handers in a row against the Twins. I remember it being a new record. Do you think they might need a right handed bat with some POP to stop teams from lining up the lefties when we come to town? The need is so obvious (and, yes, I know Maurer actually hit left handers better than right handers). And the FO does nothing! I will not follow the Twins this season unless the FO shows me a little effort.
Thanks i needed that. I think i’m going to watch Field of Dreams after work tonight.
Sign Ben Sheets. He is such a low-risk high-reward guy right now it is not even funny. If he stays healthy he is a legitimate ace. Hard to believe he hasn’t signed anywhere. It’s not like he’s looking for a long term contract at this point.
“Nobody’s worrying about the Pohlads. I’m more worried about the impact on the Twins if money/time is wasted on players that don’t work.”
again T misses the point!
Un–
But your plea for the Twins, now THAT is funny!
BC, It IS that time of year to break out the baseball movies.
again T misses the point!
So then what was your point? The Twins should take chances and sign some players?
Wow. How unique.
This may lead to some flaming, but here it goes…
Wigginton is a much safer bet than Crede. If they are both at their best, Crede is probably better, particularly in the field, but even that isn’t a certainty. I believe that Ty is the safer and probably most cost-effective choice.
Another daydream is that the Twins might trade for Uggla. That would be splendid. His numbers compare are impressive as well.
As far as Sheets, it seems the GM’s know something we don’t. If he can be at 100% then he is a #1 for almost any team.
Don’t worry. The Twins will find an excuse not to sign Crede just like Gagne.
“At one point last season teams threw 6 or 7 left handers in a row against the Twins. I remember it being a new record. Do you think they might need a right handed bat with some POP to stop teams from lining up the lefties when we come to town?”
There was also at least one stretch of 8 straight starts by a right handed pitcher. That was part of a longer stretch of 20 out of 22 games against a right handed starter. Should we go and get left handed power to stop teams from lining up the righties when we come to town?
Crede and Cruz could mean a World Series. We can always trade for more draft picks if that’s what’s holding up a Cruz deal! We’ve thrown away $5,000,000 before for players that didn’t help..like last year!! Nothing is guaranteed!
I don’t believe that you can trade draft picks.
What team had a LH starter and six LH relievers? Interesting…
Well, alrighty then. Give up the draft picks…they’re long shots anyway/1
According to SI.com’s Jon Heyman, the Giants signed infielder Juan Uribe to a minor league deal potentially worth about $1MM. Not sure if this affects the team’s interest in Joe Crede.
geno48 - I agree. This idea that you are giving up a sure thing is a crock.
Healthy Joe Crede worth 7-8 mill. A must have.
2008 Joe Crede ==== Joe Cruddy
I seen a minimun of 5 routine balls go between Joe Crede legs and under the glove in 2008.
The spin around Chicago for 2-3 years “chronic degenerative”
The medical report is everything
The Twins have never made their moves public. I can’t think of any acquisitions that have been talked about heavily before they signed or were traded.
Thus, I’m not too worried about what is rumored here.
Yet. Pitchers & catchers do report soon.
Shaitan… there was this little deal involving a CY pitcher last year that I recall being discussed in the media somewhat before a deal was announced.
1) Deep recession - do you think the Twins are going to draw anywhere near last years attendance?
Yes, I do think they’ll draw similar numbers. The Twins have already sold the most season tickets in team history this offseason. I also see little reason to think that, if they field a winning team, they won’t at least approach the attendance of the last few seasons. Last year in the dome, and all that.
2) Marginal improvements by position players - Harris, Buscher, Crain, Span, Young and Gomez should all show some marginal improvements.
Harris? Possibly, if he gets more playing time, and I think he will eventually take over third base, barring any new players.
Buscher? Doubtful. I personally don’t even see him being able to hold onto his part of the 3b platoon.
Crain? Agree, there’s a good chance, IMO, that he’ll be better than last year.
Span? I think Span’s chances of improving are almost nil. I’d be pretty surprised even he even comes anywhere close to last year’s 125 OPS+.
Young? I have no idea. It’s probably safe to assume he’ll improve a bit, but get fewer plate appearances, so it ends up as sort of a wash.
Gomez? I think there’s a very high probability of him improving next year.
3) Marginal improvements by pitchers - Liriano and Blackburn for sure should show improvements over last year and Baker, Slowey and maybe Perkins should show equal if not slightly better numbers.
I think it’s pretty dangerous for the team to assume the five starters will improve as a whole. Liriano, obviously, is a good candidate for a good season. Baker/Slowey possibly. Blackburn/Perkins are candidates to regress IMO, and as a whole it’s unlikely the Twins will be as relatively healthy throughout the rotation as they were last year.
Add that all up and you’ll see less fans at the Dome (regardless if this the last year - good riddance) and a team that should win 92 games. Book it!
Improvements all around and 92 wins, coupled with record season ticket sales and you expect attendance to go down?
well, the giants just signed uribe…maybe that’ll affect their negotiations with crede. although uribe’s deal is only $1MM/1yr.
Santana - true, but everyone was following that one. There were almost no hints of the Garza/Young trade before it happened.
Santana was not an acquisition, and I don’t think anybody predicted he would be traded for Gomez.
Chief, I think it’s too early to predict attendance and if I were making decisions, I’d be concerned in that one area. More season tickets is good, but that’s misleading. It’s all driven by wanting some priority for Target Field the following year. I do not think it means there will be more overall attendance… it could very well mean there are more tickets in the secondary markets at lower prices than in the past.
I’m not suggesting the Twins shouldn’t spend a little money right now, given the depressed markets and relative bargains out there, if there are guys who can help this season. I’m just saying I understand a little bit of caution with regard to projecting revenues until we get a better idea of just how deep this depression is going to get this summer.
Shaitan, you said, “I can’t think of any acquisitions that have been talked about heavily before they signed or were traded.”
If you can’t think of an instance where a trade was heavily talked about before it happened, you slept through most of last season. And yes, Gomez figured prominently in many of the packages discussed involving the Mets… in fact, the exact package that the Twins ended up getting was rumored, discussed and disected prior to an announcement.
Marv,
You’re correct on Garza/Young…I think that got out only a few hours before it’s announcement.
Regards,
Sign Crede now! While other teams have used the off-season to improve, the Twins have taken a long vacation. Crede is a low-risk, high-potential gamble.
Agree with Pro from Dover that Twins outfielders are not sure things (except, perhaps, Cuddyer)so need to keep Spam Gomez and Young at this point.
Was Santana for Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, and Guerra “heavily talked about” before it happened? Or was Santana for a bunch of Mets/Yankees/Red Sox prospects heavily talked about?
JimCrikket,
You seem to be missing that I said *acquisition*. Santana was, in essence, a salary dump which is entirely predictable.
My point is that the Twins are a team that keeps their plans for improvement internal. No disrespect to our beat writers here, but the Twins just aren’t a team that’s going to go tell the Post what their next move is. Much like (I can’t believe I’m name dropping this guy) Childress, they like to keep things out of the media spotlight. When something happens, I doubt it will be something we’ve been reading about.
Chief, I think it’s too early to predict attendance and if I were making decisions, I’d be concerned in that one area. More season tickets is good, but that’s misleading. It’s all driven by wanting some priority for Target Field the following year. I do not think it means there will be more overall attendance… it could very well mean there are more tickets in the secondary markets at lower prices than in the past.
Fair enough, and I agree it’s possible attendance will be down. I just think it’s unlikely to be down by much, and as for the ’secondary market’ that’s irrelevant to the Twins. They’ve already sold those season tickets and if someone resells them at reduced prices it doesn’t affect the Twins.
Ticket prices are up again this year as well (I believe to an average of $21 if I remember correctly), which should make up for a slight decrease in attendance.
It’s also true attendance held steady last year, and the Twins almost certainly spent much less than the ‘50-52%’ of revenues they’ve stated they will spend. That should provide some extra cash for this year, no?
JimC, since the Twins are conservative with their money in good economic times, I’d not be surprised for them to be even more so now. It’s not like they are $20MM under their budget from 2 years ago. It’s not like they have huge amounts of additional income coming in next year.
sign him…SIGN HIM!!
WJ, yeah actually… I was scanning some entries in LEN’s blog from a year ago just to see what was being discussed and the specific package that the Twins got for Santana was being talked about prior to a formal announcement.
Shaitan, you also referred to trades. That said, yes, you’re correct that generally speaking the Twins keep their cards close to their chests. The leaks of the Santana deal(s) came from sources of the other teams, for the most part.
Cheif, the tickets on the secondary market have already been purchesed, yes… but their availability and price do affect the Twins. If I make 5 trips to the Cities for games, I can buy tickets from the team or on the secondary market. If I choose the latter, the Twins do not make the sales of the additional tickets I would have made from them. Regardless, yes, I’m on record as agreeing they should have money to spend. I just don’t think you can totally disregard the effects of this economy in projecting their revenues and, therefore, what’s a fair payroll.
mww, I’d be careful about that “huge amounts of additional revenue” assumption. Reports throughout pro sports are coming in that ad revenues, sponsorships, and premium seating/suite purchases are falling off. One would assume that it being the first year of the new stadium in 2010, there should be plenty of demand for suites and advertising space (at least less falloff in demand than places with 5-10 year old stadiums), but to assume the economy won’t affect those anticipated increased revenues is, imo, pretty optimistic.
I see a pattern here…Like a player…Maybe start tog et interested in signing him….Then back way off…
I mean heck…Teams liked what they saw enough to take an interest and the Twins shy away…Why?? Might get into a bidding war?? It won’t go too high that they couldn’t afford him….
Typical…
Fine…What they should do then is entertain that stupid idae of moving Cuddyer to 3rd and then sign Abreu for a year or so and put HIM in right…
But that makes no sense since Cuddyer wouldn’t move…
How were the Twins going to get into a “bidding war” for Gagne? Gagne appeared ready to accept the offer.
One doesn’t usually “accept” an offer if people are still bidding on him.
It was in the Twins best interests to make the Santana talks as public as possible…as they were looking to boost his value to teams by trying to get as many bidders as possible.
Look how the threat of Santana going to Boston kept New York in as long as it did.
I have been a Twins Fan ever since I was little and I’m am really starting to get annoyed with them. They tell us that they are going into the offseason with the intent of filling our holes at 3b and middle relief, then Smith says he hasn’t traded because it won’t make us better….so why r they cheap free agents getting away from us? we won’t give anything up, and it is low cost? simply unacceptable!
[…] Joe Christensen reports the latest news on Joe Crede. […]
[…] the increased interest from other teams seems to indicate that he is, he’s definitely worth $5.1M plus incentives. It may even be worthwhile to try to go to 2 years on his deal. Still, the Twins say they need to […]
[…] The other player the Twins have had serious interest in is Joe Crede, who is coming off surgery to repair a herniated disk (a procedure he had once before in 2007), sending a scout to his recent work out in Arizona. News reports indicated that Crede looked good enough to be ready for spring training, drawing some new contract offers, but none from the Twins. […]
