Thursday evening update: Ayala, Crede, Mijares
Posted on January 29th, 2009 – 6:55 PMBy Joe Christensen
After breaking off their negotiations with free agent reliever Eric Gagne earlier this week, the Twins continue to explore relief options on the trade and free agent market.
I’ve heard no specifics on their trade pursuits, but I was told they’ve had discussions about free agent reliever Luis Ayala, who posted a 5.71 ERA last year in 81 appearances for the Nationals and Mets.
Ayala, a 31-year-old righthander, did post a 2.66 ERA and 3.19 ERA in his previous two seasons with the Nationals and made $1.7 million in 2008.
(*) The Twins actually had two scouts watching Joe Crede’s workout on Wednesday in Arizona — West supervisor Sean Johnson and area scout Ted Williams. The Twins’ Williams is no relation to The Splendid Splinter.
Spoke to several Twins officials about Crede, and it sounds like they need to see him more times before they’ll feel safe investing millions of guaranteed money. Crede made $5.1 million last year, and is looking for a base at least that high with incentives. Other players have taken pay cuts this offseason, but he made the All-Star team last year for the White Sox.
I’m putting the odds of the Twins signing Crede at 3-to-1 (they get lower, the more I think about it). The Giants or Rangers could snatch him first, though the Giants added to their infield today by signing Juan Uribe.
(*) I’ll have more on these and other items in tonight’s first editions.
Update: The notebook has been posted, with a new twist in the curious case of Jose Mijares.
190 Responses to "Thursday evening update: Ayala, Crede, Mijares"
The Twins can take the money from not signing Gagne-Thank you and throw it back into the pot for Crede. They can find another bullpen arm for less than $3 mil. I f they spend 1/2 of that then Crede’s contract would be easy to swallow!
Ayala, that’s a guy that might have been good once, but was terrible last year? Apparently the trend from last year continues….
I’d take Gagne over Ayala in a heartbeat. Not to mention anyone currently in the bull-pen over Ayala.
I’d be jacked if they signed Crede…go get him!
Eric, what’s your problem?
Ayala??? If he could still cut it as an 8th inning guy he’d still be a Met. The last two years he’s been knocked around by weak hitting N.L. teams. He has lost movement and location, and as a result walks guys in the clutch. Hence his E.R.A has gone up 3-points in as many years. That should play well in the Dome…NOT!
Luis Ayala… hmm
just for fun, have a look at his stats and compare them to those of Matt Guerrier’s. Very similar other than the fact that Ayala had a (brief) tryout as the Mets closer last season when he converted 9 out of 15 save opportunities (ouch.) Low 90s fastball, hard slider, too fast of a change (mid 80s). And they think that this guy is better than what they have already? I’ll be fine with a minor league spring training invitation and that about that…
Eric,
Relax! I don’t like Bill Smith either, but I don’t think he belongs with George Bush Jr just for being a lousy baseball GM.
Ayala is not a huge risk, but he is not a huge reward guy either.
Joe I hope you are right on Crede. This offense needs him.
I am impressed with the Diamond Backs getting Garland today for peanuts.
there must be someone out there for mr smith.between 40/50.bad knees elbows,in a wheel chair go getm mr smith for 5 bucks
Here is another informative number from Ayala’s performance last year: he left on base only 60.2% of the runners he inherited (the rest 40% scored). For comparison purposes, the Twins relievers left on base:
Nathan: 89.3%
Reyes: 87.6%
Breslow: 79.5%
Crain: 73.8%
Guerrier: 71%
Bass: 67.4%
Rincon: 66.4%
(and Gagne 76.9%)
this guy was less effective than Bass and Rincon (and Guerrier)…
Unbelievable. What do they not like about Gagne that they now like about Ayala?
I wish I shared Joe C’s relative optimism about the Crede signing. I just dont see the Twins extending themselves in any sort of negotiating environment. That would explain why we havent seen even mediocre talent signed this winter.
BC: Welcome back. Glad you are back on board. And I too, absolutely loved the Garland/Zona deal. Great match. I was secretly hoping the Twins might add to their strength by bringing in a guy like Garland, guaranteed 12-14 wins, 200+innings, professional through and through, who would love to stuff the WSox a few times this season. But I have to keep reminding myself, we live in Mn, we live in Mn…..buy KMart quality, at dollar store prices, and hope for Goldman Sachs value……oh well…..
BC.Beneke, I agree with you in that Bill Smith should not be put in the same class as the worst president in the history of this country. Bill Smith has a long way to go before he proves he is a good GM, but he sure is not a “W”.
At the end of the day,part of the decision on Ayala will be made by Rick Anderson.He has a proven record of getting the most out of a pitcher.I think they move soon a 3b.As stated by sane and others,maybe seeing what they have in-house early in spring training and then move outside the organization if they don’t measure up.
Great #’s Thrylos….I dont want any confusion here about my thoughts…I’m not saying they should have signed Gagne, BUT, if you are going to walk away from Gagne, and then turn to Ayala……what in the name of heaven? What next? Livan Hernandez for God sake? Oh yeah, that was last year’s big FA……nothing like back to the future.
Bill Smith is dishonest. For that reason he should go. I don’t necessarily mind the Twins not doing anything - nothing new. But Mr. Smith repeatedly misleads everyone with his intentions.
He says they want relief help but his actions speak louder than his words.
He says he wants a power bat on the left side of the infield. Again, his actions speak louder than his words, or lies.
There are a number of worthy players the Twins at one time or another have let word out that they like, could have signed OR acquired, but retreated: CASEY BLAKE, MARK DEROSA, TY WIGGINGTON, RUSS SPRINGER, ERIC GAGNE, and now JOE CREDE.
I don’t blame them for wanting to see Joe Crede - but that is only an excuse. If they were truthful about this they would arrange to see him again. Invite him to their camp and schedule a private workout. But they wont because their intestest is nothing but a lie.
Bill Smith, stop lying about wanting to acquire players. Try a little honesty.
part of the decision on Ayala will be made by Rick Anderson.He has a proven record of getting the most out of a pitcher.
methinks that Andy’s “proven” record is a suburban legend. I can think of only one underachieving veteran pitcher who came to the Twins and resurrected his career (Reyes) vs so many failed experiments (Hernandez, Ortiz, Ponson, Mulholland, Greisinger, Fultz, Roa, Beimel, Fiore) and actually a couple of them (Fultz and Beimel) got better after they left the Twins.
Great Job Thrylos as usual on coming up with revealing numbers. A minor league invite at best in my mind. We would be better off looking at Chad Cordero who is going to have a bullpen session next week.
When is Bill Smith going to realize Mauer and Morneau are not getting any younger. I wish just once we could take the lets win now approach. I am all for cutting costs to keep Mauer, but at some point we have to take a risk and give the M&M’s some help!
Careful CV…The Gee Gollies and apologists on this board will take offense to what you said.
I agree with CV that the Twins are lacking at least one “star quality” right handed bat to make this team formidable for years to come. Insert J.J. Hardy’s name or a Hanley Ramirez in that lineup and that would be fun for everyone. They can’t waste the M and M boys for the next few years.
I’m digging the excuses by Billy Boy and Co.
I’m guessing the teams that already made Crede an offer don’t need to see him “a few more times.”
And after what happened with Gagne, I’m willing to bet the the Crede camp is weary of dealing with big, bad Billy Boy.
So, I have my own prediction for Crede. Think Golden Gate Bridge.
Jeff,
You could probably pry either Hardy or Ramirez away for Mauer/Morneau plus Liriano/Baker/Slowey and maybe a prospect.
I say GO FOR IT!!!
The Twins would only be giving up useless pieces for the answer.
Regards,
[…] Around the Majors – […]
HHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The Brewers would ask for Mauer/Morneau ++++++for Hardy, really,? is this in your fantasy baseball??? Da Plane Da Plane!
Regards
An idea for a new movement:
We appeal to Congress to remove MLB antitrust exemption. We then get a law passed requiring a public, certified accounting of every MLB teams operating budget. Then, we get a law passed that requires every MLB to spend a minimum percentage of their operating revenue, plus penalty tax money the Yankees give up every year.
Why is this appealing you ask? Well, I for one, would just once, love to actually see the actual revenues/expenditures teams like the Twins put up. They can sell us on the magic 50% operating costs/payroll claim…..but unless and until there is public accounting, the claims are useless. How can they go from 70 mill payroll 2 yrs ago, and be in “the range” of 50%, and this year wallow at 55 mill, and still be at 50%?
The fact that taxpayers are puking out 500 mill in the middle of a hard recession should give everyone cause to re-consider the propriety of owners having unilateral authority to privatize their business. I think we have a right to a public accounting of all finances, and only then can we be assured they are actually doing all they can do to put a quality product on the field.
Wally,
That’s one of Mauer/Morneau and one of Liriano/Baker/Slowey.
Or maybe they’d accept 2 of Liriano/Baker/Slowey and one of Span/Young/Gomez/Casilla.
Yea, that’s what they’d ask.
This isn’t Fantasy Baseball which is what’s usually played on these blogs.
Regards,
I know everyone likes to speculate assume they know exactly what will happen in the regular season. I like to as well, but for a bit of perspective: many people here wanted Smith fired for not getting Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera or Ellsbury and Bucholz. Of those 4, 3 had terrible years last year and one had a year slightly better then Gomez.
Also, most people were predicting maybe 75 wins for the Twins and the Indians and Tigers were locks to be in the ALCS.
I love speculating as much as anyone, but you have to do it with a grain of salt.
You really believe that? Wow, ok.
I respectfully totally, disagree.
Crede is washed up.
I find it comical that some of the regular geniuses continue to bring up Livan as a complete failure last season. The guy was brought in to eat innings, by all accounts acted every bit the pro and helped give the AL’s wettest rotation behind the ears a veteran presence. Who else was going to give them those 140 innings early last year? He served his purpose - what exactly did you folks expect?
Disagree that you should speculate with a grain of salt?
I have tons of opinions about what I think the Twins should do, and I get mad when they don’t do what I want them to, but I think it’s a bit overboard when people claim it’s going to be a terrible season, or BS is lazy, etc.
Crede has a .257 career average and a .306 career OBP.
He never was any good!
KB,
You forgot. Span was the WORST 1st round pick ever by the Twins just 1 year ago.
I get the concept of wanting to win now. It would be more appealing IF there was any guarantee that any move suggested would reach that result.
In 2008, the Phillies won the World Series. They had a “young” core that had been together 3/4 years…Utley, Rollins, Howard & Hammels. They won 4 more regular season games than the FAILURE TWINS!!!
The WISE crowd here wants “washed up old guys” rather than letting the youngest team in 2008 grow a bit.
I personally would have the possibility/probability (non guaranteed) run of 4/5/6 years of top level team to a non guaranteed 1 year shot.
Regards,
I don’t think Smith is lazy…I just think he is a manipulative master at portraying a GM who is “working so hard” and “is very busy” so that when this team fails to upgrade and add the necessary pieces, he looks like he tried so gosh darn hard but the deal just couldn’t happen for whatever lame reason.
Anywhoo…like I said before. Apparently this team is soooooooooooooooo good as is that I have no worries. Championship time here we come.
TLC,
The blog will be closed tonight, so we can all attend our Klan meeting.
Jackass!
we get a law passed that requires every MLB to spend a minimum percentage of their operating revenue, plus penalty tax money the Yankees give up every year
in the big schema of things, this would be a fairly low priority…
there is not a single company in a single industry (other than government-controlled entities like the post office or the VA or whatever) that is (or can be in a non-totalitarian society) mandated to spend all its operating income in employee salaries (that negates profits for shareholders -or owners if it is a privately held business), which makes the desirability to own or start such companies equal to zero. It’s like saying you start a business and you are mandated to pay out all of your profits as salaries to your employees. Why would you start it. You have nothing if you don’t, you have nothing if you do and the latter takes less work…
I wouldn’t say there aren’t any worries, but there are alot of good young players that are far from being locks, but you need to give them at least another year to see what they become. Some will regress and some with get better, but there’s no way to know that now.
It was just last year that BS turned over almost the entire starting line-up.
I am not sold on Span. I remember several occasions he mis-played ball in right field going toward center field. He seemed much better fielding going towards the line in right field. As for hitting it takes more than one year to make a career. As for the Phillis they upgraded the bullpen by signing Lidge, they addressed a need and didn’t stay status qou.
I dont think the crowd here wants washed up old guys, they want to fill holes, supplement the youngsters. The Twins, I feel could use a good right handed bat to back up Morneau so he sees some strikes.
Dear Gentlepeople:
I appreciate this blog, and the opinions expressed above.
But we are missing the boat here. It;s not about idle speculation, however fun that may be. I think everyone agrees that noone, not even Bill Smith, knows what will happen in the regular season.
THE QUESTION THAT UNDERLIES IT ALL IS THIS: ARE THE TWINS MAKING A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO SPEND A FAIRLY PROPORTIONATE PERCENTAGE OF THEIR ANNUAL OPERATING INCOME ON PLAYER PAYROLL?
That’s it…..everything else revolves around their business model. It gets tiring year after year of expecting teams like the Twins to upgrade their roster, and year after year to get payroll limitations as the final excuse why they wont do it. Fans have a right to know, and even moreso, taxpayers who are funding 70% of the staduim have a greater right, and interest, in knowing the actual numbers.
Wally,
Lidge, was washed up…who happened to turn it around.
Regards,
Hmmm…looks like we missed our chance to grab Rich Hill.
Thrylos:
Noone is mandated to spend their entire operating income on payroll. Publicizing actual operating costs would expose to the light of the day claims such as the Pohlad family claim…that 50-52% of operating budget is player payroll.
Some of us might suspect that the actual numbers are quite a lot different than what is publically suggested by the owners. IF,say, the Twins actually commit closer to 30%, would you be concerned? Would it seem right that the public is still buying the stadium, while the team, which could have improved its product, prefers fatter margins to quality product?
No other publically subsidized business would ever be able to shield their operations from scrutiny to the extent MLB does…..and it is only because of the anti trust exemption that they can do it.
All I am saying is, I would like to know. And I think the people who are buying these new stadiums in every MLB city should have a right to know.
Said the Astro, who mis-handled him and sucked the air right out of him.
just more jibberish from the twins…ayala??why not just forget it and lets see what we can do with our own arms in the minors -delaney, slama etc …if all they are going to do is look at the tony batistas of pitching=be smart and save the money…i too am one who wishes we would have gone after a proven veteran starter like garland instead of letting az get him for nothing - that would have made more sense for us-we can never have too much starting pitching.. and the crede saga goes on and on and on…my guess is while smith is contemplating sf or some other will do the deal with him and we can also forget that deal and then maybe wigginton will still be available if we are lucky, but then he may be gone by then too…..unload the lead bricks from your shorts bill smith…this is getting sickening as hell
While I will not defend the Twins for their history of not being willing to spend some money when it’s appropriate, I’m not in favor of spending money just to spend it.
Dragon,
41 saves, 1.95 era, totally washed up.
I don’t know…
But in the big picture of things, if you do that with baseball (making them opening their books), you got to do it with every privately held company in America (from your handyman and tax preparer to Cargill and Burger King) to be fair.
And yes there are publicly subsidized privately owned businesses that do not disclose… ask Chrysler (and for what Chrysler is getting vs. what the Twins are getting - hand out vs. tax increase paid $, I’d rather see Chrysler’s balance sheet first)
The Twins won’t take another look at Wigginton even though nobody has signed him yet? His price tag has to have gotten smaller by now.
I know neither of these will happen, but I’d rather have Cuddy play third than Wiggy.
“But in the big picture of things, if you do that with baseball (making them opening their books), you got to do it with every privately held company in America (from your handyman and tax preparer to Cargill and Burger King) to be fair.”
thrylos, you’re exactly right. I love sports, but I’m against public subsidies for pro sports stadiums. We don’t force/legislate private companies to show us their books. If we are going to try and justify seeing the Twins books because they received public financing, I would suggest another solution. Stop electing politicians who vote to subsidize stadiums. As much as I love sports it’s the only solution I can see, and it comes with potential pain, maybe even losing a team.
In regards to a comment made earlier about Span, I’m also not sold on him, nor Gomez or Young. That’s why I don’t want them to trade any of the 4 OF we have.
I THINK those 3 will be fine, but I also wouldn’t be shocked if any of them regressed, either.
The difference is Chrysler does not enjoy the anti trust exemption. Chrysler management reports to a board of trustees.
There is some accountability for operational integrity. Not so MLB. 32 franchisee’s who long ago figured out they could make lots of cash not only by trading on the entertainment value of their respective products, but also by extorting public monies to fund their costliest asset-stadiums. We build it, they own it, the equity in the franchise accrues entirely to the owner, and ownership has to reveal nothing about their margins…….
MLB needs to increase its credibility, especially since Bonds,McGwire,Clemens, et al…….Since they will never give up their precious exemption willingly, perhaps the time approaches when they will have to give it up unwillingly. Only then do salary caps and floors make sense.
Let’s put it this way, if someone pitched in the Mets bullpen last year, the Twins ARE NOT interested. Wait, apparently Bill Smith IS. As for Crede, it seems to be a no-brainer. As I’ve said before, with Buscher around, Crede can have every 3rd day off, just like Joe Mauer does. Or, Crede can probably even DH once in a while. With a cautious workload, it’s less likely that he’d re-injure his back.
Here is another informative number from Ayala’s performance last year: he left on base only 60.2% of the runners he inherited (the rest 40% scored). For comparison purposes, the Twins relievers left on base:
Nathan: 89.3%
Reyes: 87.6%
Breslow: 79.5%
Crain: 73.8%
Guerrier: 71%
Bass: 67.4%
Rincon: 66.4%
(and Gagne 76.9%)
this guy was less effective than Bass and Rincon (and Guerrier)…
I’m nitpicking here, but you’re confusing inherited runners scored and runners left on base.
Those figures aren’t inherited runners, they’re the percentage of a pitcher’s runners that they put on themselves who didn’t score (LOB%).
So, I have my own prediction for Crede. Think Golden Gate Bridge.
Can we book it?
If he could still cut it as an 8th inning guy he’d still be a Met.
And Gagne would still be a Red Sox/Brewer…and Crede would be a White Sox…etc.
I still say your paranoid if you think the Twins would intentionally pull an offer off the table for Gagne just so they could “mess with” the fans.
Hell, I’d say all of these people who say “The Twins are master manipulators” are full of it. Because just looking around here there’s nobody being manipulated.
rayreiner -
I’ve been whizzing in the wind about this ever since the ink dried on the stadium deal. At this point all you can do is what you think is right for you. I didn’t renew my 20-game plan this year after 8 years of sharing/having my own season tickets. The nails in the coffin for me were the Castillo dump in ‘07 and the non-moves at the deadline in ‘08.
Even conservative estimates put Twins profits at 30-60 mil last year, with record MLB media revenues, increased ticket prices and attendance. ‘09 will even be better with another ticket price increase and a lower payroll - so that’s a total of anywhere from 60-120+ mil - going straight to pay off the stadium. That’s their plan - more power to them. They are amazing businessmen first and foremost - period.
Where’s the “Book it!” guy? Doesn’t look like SF will sign Crede today.
and the value of the team almost doubles, the team will be sold in 5-10 yrs.
Crede 100% not going to Giants.
Molina catching
Sandoval 3b
Uribe UT
If JJ Hardy does not become a Twin and Joe Crede does not become a Giant, I will lose my faith in the blog poster’s ability to forecast the future.
Its amazing how can someone be totally confident (yet totally wrong)forecasting something they can’t possibly know.
It must be the anonymity.
How stupid can you appear, if no one know who you are?
Can we please STOP mentioning JJ Hardy? He will NEVER wear a Twins uniform. Using that logic, the Vikings should trade for Peyton Manning and the Wild should make a move for Alex Ovechkin.
i don’t see why crede wouldn’t want to play in minnesota, given they will be competitive and he knows the central. with that being said, i wouldn’t go higher then say, 4 million plus another 2 or 3 in incentives for games played. he hasn’t been healthy the last 2 years and is a 1 dimensional offensive player. but his defense, oh how i pine for his defense at the hot corner!!! get it done smith, you guys have the money. as long as he proves healthy, i say go for it.
[…] Around the Majors – […]
Whew! That was a close one Mr. Smith. You did the usual “just below the low point offer so they won’t accept and I look like we’re trying thing” to Gagne and it almost back fired. He was actually willing to accept the offer. Good thing you were able to show off that deceptive speed and run away from that one. Almost cost you a cool 3 mil! Ya’ better watch it Mr. Smith when you are playing with the big boys like Mr.Boras. You just might get your face rubbed in it like the Mets, Yankees and Sox’s did to you on that whole Santana experience.
Dragon man…
Have to tell ya’ man. We are not the Phillies. They are able and, most important, willing to suppliment their young talent with proven commodities. We on the otherhand are not. You have to remember, the widow of opportunity for a small market team to be sucessful is very small. Once the good talent overprices itself, the realistic run is over. An organization must be able to see, acknowledge and know when to take that plunge in order to move past the first round and out level. Of course, an organization has to be willing to do so at the risk of a little of their resources. We were willing to take that chance in 87 with Reardon and Gladden, then in 91 with Morris. We weren’t in 92 and let Morris take a championship to Canada for a few pennies thus closing the window quickly and for a long decade. We are once again no longer willing to make those choices. The sad thing of it is, we wouldn’t even have to use Pohlad money or deplete the talent pool to make it happen.
Crede is coming off two injury years, not one. And in prior 4 seasons he averaged 73 RBI. Where did SLUGGING 3B come from? And bad back will never go completely away, diminishing his 3B.
If Jesse Crain were in NL and free agent, people would be crying to get him. Looked fully recovered in Sep and better stats over 3 years than anyone mentioned so far.
jim,
“Where did SLUGGING 3B come from?”
.283, 30-94 in 2006.
16 HR’s before the All-Star break last year!
How do Buscher’s .294, 4-47 & Harris’ .265, 7-49
in a combined 652 at-bats compare?
One half of Crede’s injured 2008 produced 16 HR.
652 AB produced 11 HR for the incumbents.
I’ve seen a variety of posts on the boards since the Gagne “halted talks.” About half are optimistic, saying “this means a better offer came in, can’t wait to see what it is” and about half are pessimists, saying “this is the typical Twins pattern of bidding just under so they can appear like they are trying/this is a pretty disingenuous move to pull the offer at the last second.”
We don’t really have any insight on what really went down, but so far, we’ve heard nothing that indicates a trade. Wouldn’t it make sense to try to save face by putting a few more trade hints out in the media to show that there was a reason to pull the Gagne offer at the last second?
I want to stay on the optimistic side of things, but as of now (and especially with the update being “we’re considering a cheaper/worse free agent pitcher, Ayala”), it is looking like the Twins FO is just acting in bad faith. I’m starting to turn to the dark side.
(And yes, I know my optimism about a Sheets signing is completely unrealistic.)
Terry D.
I don’t disagree with most of what you have said. I submit the difference is timing.
The Twins in ‘87 had a core that had played together for 3/4 years, and were incredibly lucky to win. I revelled in every moment of it.
This team, IMHO, has too many young pups with 2 yrs or less of ML experience, a number of them with 2008 as their only full year of ML experience. M & M and Nathan are known commodities, ALL the rest are quesswork.
I have posted before I expect improvements from Young, Gomez, Baker, Crain, Cuddyer and Slowey. Similar to improvement from Liriano & Blackburn. Similar to 2008 or possible regression from Perkins, Casilla and Span.
That’s my list, and that list and $1.29 will get me a cold cup of coffee at 7-11.
There may be a couple of weak spots, there may be a whole lot of weak spots, or there may be very few weak spots.
Now, I am not mechanically inclined, and just because the car won’t start in the morning, I DON”T immediately buy a new battery (been there, done that) because it might be the starter, or the alternator, or a loose wire.
I repeat myself, I have probably followed this franchise longer than anyone here, in ALL that time, this is the first time in my memory, the Twins have an opportunity to add a second group to their core, only a few years younger then their current 3 player core. Will ANY of the group above step-up? Don’t know. Could, in an optimistic sense be 4 or 5 very good additional core players, probably 2/3, maybe none.
Maybe, you guess correctly and fill the right hole, more likely, this winter’s perceived problem is an illusion.
All of this anxiety is a good reason to have an alternative winter sports team to follow/support. I’ve got my 6th Level English soccer team. Tied top of table on points, leading on goal differential, and playing the team we’re tied with on Saturday morning. 3 promotions in 6 years, a very good chance of 4th in 7. That season ends in mid April, just in time to spend an exciting summer with the Twins.
Regards,
AM,
If I read the Gagne reports correctly, the info is coming from the Boras crowd. Obviously, they have NO REASON to be anything but scrupiously honest and forthright.
A very good reason to trash the FO, because it fit’s many posters world view.
Regards,
Hey Walter Johnson…I’m the Book It guy. And why wouldn’t the Giants sign Crede soon?
Just saw a report that the Uribe signing is not going to influence their pursuit of Crede.
They are a team that will be much more willing to give Crede the guaranteed money he is looking for. There is not really any doubt about it. And I will go ahead and submit that they likely “won’t have to see him a few more times.”
What a joke.
Oh…and you can go ahead and put a stamp on the comment by Bill Smith when Crede does sign with the Giants.
Something to the effect of “Well…we tried so gosh darn hard, but just didn’t seem him as a fit. Don’t forget, we got 91 RBIs from 3b last year.”
Vomit city.
It cracks me up that BS is lying or being disengenious about this free agent process.BS will not negotiate in the press or to placate this blog.Most of the leaks have come from player agents.
Oh…and you can go ahead and put a stamp on the comment by Bill Smith when Crede does sign with the Giants.
Don’t need to stamp it, it’s already booked.
Nathan is in his 30’s, Mauer is not signed and plays the most physically demanding position in the game. How long do you think those two will be in their peaks? Do you really think they’ll sign Baker, Liriano and slowey to long term deals to keep them here 4+ years? The window with this core (unless the club changes its philosophy about how it spends money, or doesn’t) is probably 2-3 years. I suppose they can wait, but in 2-3 years Nathan will either be too expensive, or “too old” and declining. Mauer will have 2-3 more years of wear and tear from catching, and will cost in excess of $20MM per year. Morneau will be due an extension. The starting pitchers will be in arbitration.
Alright, just making sure. I’m trying to be more creative with my wording.
I know we’re still in the dead of winter and anxious for the new season to start but you guys really need to find a hobby or something because all you ever do is spew doom and gloom for the Twins. Cant you see anything positive?
To Joe C:
We are still waiting to hear from you why Twins broke off talks with Gagne!!
So pointing out and pining for the possible ways that this team can get better is predicting doom and gloom?
If I read the Gagne reports correctly, the info is coming from the Boras crowd. Obviously, they have NO REASON to be anything but scrupiously honest and forthright.
Got a source for that, Dragon?
Chief:
A person close to Gagne said the former Cy Young Award winner was willing to sign a one-year, $3 million deal with about $500,000 in incentives for innings pitched but was told the Twins were moving in a different direction.
We are still waiting to hear from you why Twins broke off talks with Gagne!!
From the same article above:
Twins General Manager Bill Smith declined to comment, keeping with his policy on every negotiation, but there were indications the Twins had broken off talks with Gagne and were instead exploring trade options for bullpen help.
Cant you see anything positive?
You’re right, BC.
How’s this?
I’m positive third base–as presently manned–is going to be a sore spot for the Twins all season, and I’m positive the Twins would benefit from adding a reliable, shut-down arm to the bullpen.
I’m also positive the Twins front office has done nothing–not a GD thing–to resolve either of those issues despite telling us last fall they were priorities.
I’m positive T and Dragon will find a way to turn the Twins front office lack of action into something positive, and chastise the rest of us along the way.
i just want to pick smiths brain a bit..one question is all- how can he expect to compete with this team unless he shores up some glaring weaknesses- and while the other teams in this division are constantly doing something to hopefully improve…no moves are going to guarantee anything, but at least they are making the effort- this team is constantly looking at the CHEAP and its getting old, especially after all the sermons about the getting the twins a new stadium, etc - you know the story …..why even waster time on a guy like ayala, the free agent list is still fairly large and i know ayala is not the top option…..crede is a major concern because of his back- as one who knows how backs can be a major problem- he could look good this week for everyone and next week be right back in bed-you just never know, so for my money i would probably go after wigginton for more than one reason…he is a chip of the old block, hes a gamer, the kind of guy that would fit into the twins team very well, in fact i believe he would become a fan favorite in short order..jmho… and he also has alot of versatility, where he can spell morneau when needed- he could fill in the corner of spots if needed and even play 2b if needed, so he can be a guy used in many different ways or just dh when kubel is slumping or tough left handers are throwing….again i think 3b is our biggest need, as we have a ton of arms to hopefully fill the bullpen, but i would like to see the twins sign wiggy or crede depending, and also find a veteran starter like garland to help these kids out, like livan did last year—if some of these moves are not made i predict this team will be in 3rd or 4th place to stay by mid july and that will make for a very unhappy summer….we do not deserve that as this team is too close to the world series to mess it up now….so wake up mr smith and get off your dead ass and spend some of the money as we know theres a ton of it out there….morneau, mauer, cuddy, nathan deserve better than your giving them- say nothing about us fans….get to work.
Reusse had the story of what’s going on with the pulled offer to Gange. Here’s what he said on KSTP. Aparently the Twins are working on a trade to get Huston Street. But they want an option in case the deal falls through. So they were low balling Gagne and stringing him along so they could keep him as an option until they get a deal closed for street. But unfortunately when the Twins made their last low ball offer they thought he’d reject (which would then buy them some time) Gagne suprised them and accepted and was glad to have a deal. That’s when the Twins had to pull the offer, because they weren’t ready to sign him yet because they still think they can get Street.
My opinion on Crede is that the Twins feel okay with Harris and Buscher. If they think Crede is healthy enough to do better they’ll sign for the right price. If other teams bid him up, or he doesn’t seem healthy then they’ll pass and go with the Busher/Harris platoon.
Finally, you guys posting in the middle of the night, do you work nights or are you seriously suffering some insomnia?
T, I read the same article you did. It also mentioned ‘persons close to the negotiations’ as a source.
Nowhere does the article say anything about Boras.
“So pointing out and pining for the possible ways that this team can get better is predicting doom and gloom?”
No we all know where the Twins could improve but to say they need to sign a 3B or a RP or all will be lost is just plain wrong.
mijares only 1 month in the ml and now a ??? breslow less than full yr of good pitching and cut by several teams in the past. it may not be a bad idea to resign reyes. breslow and mijares are certainly not a sure thing.
USAFChief says:
January 30th, 2009 at 9:18 am
*blah blah blah…underhanded shot at posters I disagree with…blah blah blah*
For somebody who apparently follows eveyr post I’ve ever written, you sure do a terrible job of actually reading them for any kind of comprehension.
You come in here at least 4-5 times a day (more or less apparently based on how many times I or Dragon comment) and put up the same tired “They’ve done nothing” comment.
When posters (such as myself, Dragon, sane, etc) point out the Twins have actually done a few things (including signing two players and aquiring a third), you then backpedal.
Nowhere have I said the Twins have solved all their problems by signing Punto, Kubel, and getting Dickey. I’m simply pointing out that “done nothing” is 100% wrong based on the facts.
For all the times you like to find ways I’m wrong, you continue to pound home that same “Done nothing” BS over and over again.
Crawl back into bed Cheif, the schitk’s getting tired.
Nowhere does the article say anything about Boras.
I didn’t say Boras. I’m just pointing out where one could speculate Boras.
There’s obviously going to be spin on this by both sides. We know Boras too well to expect anything less.
Why are we wasting our time reading these blogs about crede and all of these pitchers when we can just have nick punto fill in these positions.
As much as I LOVE Punto’s hustle, grit, and sticktuitivness, he can only play one position at a time.
I really believe BS will make a move to shore up third base between now and opening day. He is well aware of what Buscher and Harris can do and that is exactly why he idenitified the third base position as an area of weakness. My bet is on Joe Crede signing with the Twins soon.
I’ll believe that when I see it
BC- so are you saying that without the twins making any adjustments, they should be just fine and can with this division??
we need to sign nick punto to a 15 year 300 million dollar contract.
There is a lot of talk today about spending and the business model. For whatever it’s worth, we apparently cannot trust the buiness model given by the Twins or any other club. The Twins are not unique in this regard. Now, I recognize what I’m about to say is hearsay, and I do encourage you to take it with a grain of salt, but in my grad school days, I had access to a prominent economics professor I will not name. He was on the committee that studied baseball labor relations and other business-side matters after the ‘94 strike. He assured me and others in our small group that “the books are cooked.” The owners are making money. Cash, not just increases in the value of the teams. So, are the Twins lying? Yup. Is everyone else lying? Yup.
i do not believe the twins are in the middle of some big trade or deal that ive been reading about on this blog, as a reason to back off on gagne…if that was the case, i am sure we would have had some hint of sorts on mlbtraderumors.com by now, as they seem to be on top of most things going on in baseball today….besides i dont think we want the twins making any big trade at this time….we need all the guys we have and i dont think we need to disrupt this team other than to add a couple by free agency
yes puntoluver I agree with you. we need to lock punto up till he’s at least 50 NOT!!!
If what tlk is saying is true, what in god’s name are the Twins willing to give up to get Street?
mj1: If any trade was sparked up that caused the Twins to back out of Gagne, it was likely something they had checked into previously that has since changed.
For example, Seattle’s asking price for Beltre may have come down. Or perhaps the Twins got word regarding Kouzmanoff’s health.
I don’t think some magic “new team” has just jumped in at the 11th hour and said “Want our 3B!”…if there is a trade brewing.
But like I said earlier, I never wanted Gagne as a Twin in the first place. So for me i don’t care what the reason was the offer was pulled. The important part is it was.
Chief,
I obviously misinterpreted “A source close to Gagne” as being from Boras etal.
Apologies…It is now rather obvious that it is Bill Smith.
Thanks for the clarification.
Regards,
There is common ground between those of us generally and wrongly labeled as gee-golly apologists for management like T, Dragon, and sane, and those of you that express your dismay with quite varying degrees of rationality, emotional maturity, and grace.
1. RH power to support, protect, and balance the offense. Generally thought to be best solved by replacing options at either 3B or SS.
2. Better defense at 3B.
3. 8th inning setup, RP depth.
Along the spectrum of rational thought and opinion, we have good discussions about the quality at other positions, especially CF, LF, RF, 5th starter. Those can be lively and fun debates, right?
And we have the crunchers like thrylos98, and the observers like sane (I think he would agree), both with much to add.
My only wish is that those of you who insist on demonizing others, including the owners and management, those of you who get off on name-calling and character assasination, would find within yourselves enough kindness and character to stop it. No more idiots, cheats, liars, and fat people, please. It isn’t funny, really, and it makes some of us become embarrassed for you.
In line with my (alleged) stature as a gee-golly apologist for management, I wish to take this opportunity to apologize for management.
They, apparently, don’t seem to know what the f**k they are doing.
However, IMO, they are just faking that!
There is a definite possibility that they actually DO know what the f**k they are doing.
I’m simply pointing out that “done nothing” is 100% wrong based on the facts.
Well, I obviously disagree.
Signing Punto and Kubel does NOTHING to add to last years team, nor to fix what should be obvious holes. Both Punto and Kubel were on last year’s team, and only Punto was ever possibly going to be somewhere else in 2009.
I’ll leave it to each person to decide whether signing RA Dickey and adding Johnson through the Rule 5 draft does anything to improve the 2009 team. IMO, neither are likely to see time on the 25 man roster this year, and if they do, it’s a bad thing, not a good thing.
So you’ll have to forgive me for staying with my opinion that the Twins have done NOTHING this offseason to improve themselves. Nothing. Not a GD thing.
And as for calling people liars, birdofprey, I have never called any poster here a name. I do believe we’ve been lied to by Twins management, and until something occurs to prove me wrong, I’ll stick with that opinion, and I’m not afraid to post it. They have lied to us about their plans for payroll, and they have lied to us about their sincere interest in adding free agents.
I think the Twins can be good enough WITHOUT MAKING A MOVE
“I’ll leave it to each person to decide whether signing RA Dickey and adding Johnson through the Rule 5 draft does anything to improve the 2009 team. IMO, neither are likely to see time on the 25 man roster this year, and if they do, it’s a bad thing, not a good thing.”
How do you know this Chief? Do you have the magical crystal ball now because i would like to borrow it please.
I’m sorry, sane, but your statement of contrition rings hollow. For which specific act of ineptness are you apologizing? For example, are you excusing the frustrating failure of management to (so far)deliver a satisfactory solution to the RP problem, a problem they failed to adequately address last season, a problem that most of us think cost them a trip to the playoffs? C’mon, gee golly, let’s have a group hug. C’mpn Dragon and T, join in, and let’s give a heart-felt apology for management for that particular transgression. And then let’s sit back and listen as some of our friends here ream them for being completely and utterly idiotic and deceitful.
Or perhaps the Twins got word regarding Kouzmanoff’s health.
the latest is that he will miss a chunk of ST (anyways, what does a 3B have to do with the Twins pulling of a reliever deal?)
I hate WordPress. I was saying, the Twins can be good enough to win the division without making a move, but I think they should still be trying to add a FA like Crede or Wigginton.
Chief,
If re-signing your own Free Agents (Punto) is doing nothing, then letting them (him) go would be less than nothing.
On that scale, the Twins have done nothing, but they could have done less.
I am OK with that.
birdofprey, I could not have said it better myself, and sane, thanks for the humorous repsonse.
bird,
“I’m sorry, sane, but your statement of contrition rings hollow.”
That’s kind of what I was shooting for.
I think we have discovered a new disorder on this blog called Twins Offseason Front Office Disorder now known as TOFOD. Now we must find a cure.
Chief, I respect and agree with you to an extent. I’ll even go so far as to surmise that the team has intentionally misled the media, and threfore the fans, on occasion. My view is that your verdict is premature, and that your assessment is overly harsh. To your immense credit, you are rational and usually civil, but maybe a little mean and angry on occasion also.
Two points:
1. Until the jury comes in, the verdict is out. I too am skeptical. I too question whether there is a pattern or two that deserve criticism, the Gagne saga being perhaps the latest. But there’s still time for redemption. I too am unsure if Billy Smith will emerge as a solid GM, or if his track record to-date will be the ultimate reflection. I’m just not ready to deliver a verdict, and especially not one as harsh as yours.
2. The Twins have not solved the three big deficiencies-yet. The Twins will be better this year even with Buscher/Harris, even with internal fixes at RP. But that is not good enough for me, either. Where I disagree with you, and others is when you say they have done nothing. They have open roster spots in AAA. Why all the rants about Dickey, Ayala, and Bret Toma (sic)? These are minor league and depth deals. They may not satisfy some of us in the end, but I can’t join in the hyper-criticism, at least not yet.
How do you know this Chief?
I don’t. I said ‘in my opinion.’ YMMV.
I have a disorder called koolaid drinking rose colored glass wearing homer. I dont know what caused it but i know the only cure is more Kubel.
Sweet, BC. Kubel-Aide has a nice ring to it.
my guess is the twins backed off gagne because they want to sign crede.. and they do not want to guarantee 8+mil for them two players.
sad to think about this. but its probably one or the other for the twins..
and i think we have enough pitching in the minors to find an 8th inning guy. or atleast some more bullpen help..
meanwhile the yankees sign whoever they want.. and we pick.. crede? or gagne?
haha
we still gunna pound the yanks!
But there’s still time for redemption
there sure is but this off-season started in a bad way. The first 2-3 moves that BS did were not that great:
a. Giving Gardy an extension, despite being in contract for 2009 and despite missing the post-season for 2 years and not meeting post-season expectations in 2007. That delivers the wrong message.
b. Hurrying to re-sign Punto (due to Gardy prodding) to an inflated contract early in the off-season
c. releasing Randy Ruiz who led the international league in hitting had some RH pop (.206 isoP) and was ok in his brief stint in the majors and essentially replacing him with a never-had been quick low power low OBP outfielder.
make that 2006 under a. above
Hey birdofprey why dont we call it Kool-Aids the Aids part being Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome?
Fair enough, bird, fair enough.
And I agree there’s still lots of time till opening day, and even more time till the end of the 2009 season.
If I come off angry, I apologize. I’m only angry with the front office, not anyone here.
Well, except T. He sometimes ticks me off. 
I am afraid of what we would give up for Huston Street.
thrylos98 I disagree with you about giving Gardy the extension I think he did a comendable job with what he had last year. The only thing that bothered me was how long he left Gomez as the leadoff hitter about 3 months too long in my opinion.
just wait till we sign sheets
then we will be forced to trade a pitcher or two..
or maybe we won’t
BC,
Is it possible to acquire the Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome from this blog?
I am definitely displaying the symptoms lately.
hindsight is always 20/20 guys!
thrylos98,
Re-signing Punto so early reminded me of the Vikings drafting Tavaris Jackson. Why use your 2nd round pick on a guy no other team was going to take until the late rounds? Why sign Punto for so much when no other team seemed interested?
birdofprey,
I am not sure what I am supposed to be apologizing for.
I have stated an opinion.
Was the BP in fact the problem last year? It didn’t help. that’s for sure.
Was it the SP which had a run where it seemed NO ONE could get out of the 5th inning? Causing over/poor use of the BP.
Was is an inconsistant offense, which tended to get the job done most of the time, BUT were AWOL at times? Offering no relief for the BP.
Would Bradford or whomever have made a positive difference?
Were any of the problems a result of a whole lot of youngsters, making mistakes of both omission and comission?
Baseball is a team game. Generally, wins or losses are a combinations of the play of the Twins AND their opponents and the umpires.
I think I am the ONLY poster who is most consistantly on the “Dark Side”. I am also, the ONLY poster who is neither in the clubhouse nor in the front office, AND does not claim to be stating fact. My posts are either opinion or halucination.
Lastly, I believe last year was very positive. There was benefit from having a positive imbalance of home games early, even though the late long road trip was the deathnell.
The youngsters got a taste of a title run, and I expect they were left dissatisfied. I see that as a positive learning experience.
Regards,
ps: I will admit to an excessive use of sarcasm.
(anyways, what does a 3B have to do with the Twins pulling of a reliever deal?)
I actually should’ve focused more on Atkins…since there was a Atkins/Street rumor floating there for a bit.
BC, There was no need to extend Gardy when he was still under contract through 2009.
sad to think about this. but its probably one or the other for the twins..
I’d rather have Crede.
Though I’d rather have Beltre.
sane-It is probably a epidemic by now!There should probably be a warning label like they have on cigs!
Walter: That’s not entirely true.
It could be that by extending Gardy’s contract now, players who enjoy playing under him will be more willing to sign extensions.
mlb trade rumor has a note that the mariners would like to sign abreau but need to clear some salary space. would it be worth taking on one of their dud high paid pitchers to get beltre?
last summer smith was willing to take on washburns contract.
My personal view of the situation is this:
Bill Smith took the reigns from an extremely conservative GM. Very early in his tenure, he identified a number of players that he was interested in; DYoung, BJ Upton, and Carlos Gomez. Joe C mentioned those players by name. Smith also made an early splash by doing something Ryan was never willing to do–trade a young pitcher for a bat.
Whatever you think of that trade, I think the biggest impact was a change in expectation from Twins fans–no longer would our GM leave big holes in our lineup; he would be proactive in addressing those holes.
The reality is that Smith isn’t that different from Ryan. He’s an organizational man whose bought into the Twins philosophy. He may have felt a little eager to fix holes at first, but the Twins organization has straightened him out quickly, combined with the not-so-stellar results of his initial attempts to fix holes, you can see be has quickly become the conservative match of Ryan.
The only problems are:
1)Fans still have their hopes up that Smith is more proactive than Ryan, and
2)Smith has a habit of indicating that he’s wants to fix the holes/has payroll flexibility–which looks
disingenuous in light of his increasingly conservative approach.
We need to get our expectations in check.
BC (ND),
commendable job or not last season here is the issue (and I am not arguing whether or not he did a good job) :
* The team did not reach the post-season for 2 years and last time it reached the post-season underperformed with Gardenhire as a manager.
* He was under contract. I am not saying firing him, all I am saying is let them play in 2009 and re-sign him if the team wins something. By extending him the FO gives the message than non-winning is not only acceptable but should be rewarded.
WJ so your saying they shouldn’t have been worried about Gardy leaving after this year? I can think of a few teams that might want him in the dug out.
T,
That’s a stretch in my opinion. The only reason would be to lock him up now so he doesn’ go to the Mets when Jerry Manuel gets canned after NY fails to make the playoffs, or getting in a bidding war with NY.
You never know about bullpens.This decade,the team with the best pen has won the division(KC excluded),and it wasn’t ever the team that had the best pen going into the season.
thrylos i understand what your saying and i agree that a manager can’t rest on his laurels forever but i dont think gardy has been around too long just yet.
One reason that the Twins may be standing pat on roster changes; is that they can save money by booking players’ plane reservations to Fort Myers months in advance.
One problem with Gardy leaving would be he’d probably take Andy with him. But then we could bring up Stan and Stu to take over.
AM- I agree that Smith showed something proactive in the Garza/Young trade. What concerns me is that the FO feigned interest in DeRosa & then we watched him go to Cleveland for a resin bag and 2 new baseballs.
If Crede, while he recovers from back surgery, comes to play on turf then he is clearly an idiot.
If the Twins address either the RP role or 3B I will be delighted. If they decide they don’t have the resources to do both I will still be more optimistic about the 2009 season.
ggg,
I saw that. I’d love them to do an 1-1 Washburn for Cuddyer and put Perkins back in the pen. That would solve a couple of problems…
Here’s a little thing I witnessed. At a game last Sept. Sitting in RF foul territory. Between BP and 1B. Looking into Twins dugout with binocs. Kids had just finished stretching and were gathering in the dugout just before start of game. Gomez was yapping and going up and down the bench. Doing some kinda dance hand things with all of his teammates. Acting goofy. Getting smiles from everyone. Except Mijares. He said something and Gomez shrugged and moved on. Guys on each side of Mijares kinda leaned away and looked at him. It appeared to me to be an intentional display of disrespect. Bullyish. I’ve played with surly guys. Not a big deal to me. But I’ve seen younger guys interiorized by similar behavior. Not a good thing for the team. Not sure what this means but it does fit with the latest news bout the kid. Hopefully this guy “fits”. He’s a h*ll of a pitcher.
I’m gonna say there is a trade done before the Super Bowl. That’s my call for the day.
Nice discussion today, seems to be much less bickering…and more analyzing discussin.
Gardy has won or tied(yes last year was a tie)more division crowns than any other skipper in this division,this decade!
I don’t know about Crede’s injury. It was a herniated disk. According to the Mayo Clinic’s website, only in rare cases does one require corrective surgery. That suggest that Crede’s was serious. However, it also says it is highly correctable. The major problem is pain. There is not really any physical limitation (besides the excruciating pain). If the surgery worked and there is no more pain, I don’t see whether it would matter if he played on grass or concrete.
In other news…
Why Pats won’t franchise Cassel
If the Patriots decide to place the franchise tag on Matt Cassel, they must have $14.6 million of salary cap space available — or at least have a plan in place to create that space once Cassel signs the franchise tender. Tom Brady is scheduled to have a $14.6 million salary cap charge in 2009. So in the event that the Patriots place the franchise tag on Cassel, and end up keeping him, they will have $29.2 million of the projected $123 million salary cap tied up in two players who play the same position. That is not an ideal scenario for the team, and runs counter to the philosophy of spreading the wealth to more players. (Boston Globe)
We need to get our expectations in check.
Good post.
But I disagree with the quoted line above.
I don’t see why we as Twins fans should temper our expectations. I understand they can’t spend with the Yankees, or even spend with the Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers etc.
I do think I have a right as a fan to expect ownership to push payroll aggressively when it makes sense, and to expect the front office to be creative, proactive, and intelligent when it comes to putting the best possible team on the field.
Right now, I don’t think we’re getting any of that.
We’re getting ownership that seems to be overly frugal–to the point where it appears they’re purposely cutting payroll to pay down the stadium contribution–and we’re getting a front office that seems to thumb it’s nose at using the latest statistical research to augment scouting and seems unwilling or unable to address what appear to me to be obvious weaknesses with reasonable solutions available.
i dont think gardy has been around too long just yet.
well, he is the third longest current tenured coach with the same team behind Cox and LaRussa
We need to find out how much of keeping the payroll in check results in Smith getting bonus paychecks…
Thrylos:
1. We disagree about Gardy, and therefore the merits of his extension. I concur with some, but certainly not all, of your criticisms for specific decisions by Gardy. But you give him no real credit for how he manages the clubhouse, you don’t find enough reasons to praise his good game moves, and your overly harsh about some (again, not all) of his bad moves. But at least you don’t spew venom like some others.
2. Were you there to witness all this prompting? It’s a little precocious to assume, based on his many statements of praise for Punto, that Billy Smith and others rolled over and signed Punto because Gardy pressured them. My instincts tell me that they thought it all through, and decided to lock down an option for SS. I won’t defend Smith vociferously for this move, but it hardly qualifies as an aggregious act of ineptness.
3. They signed an outfilder, Matos, to replace McDonald, not Ruiz. Ruiz can’t play checkers, let alone 1B. WHo cares if he can hit AAA pitching a little? Do you want them to jettison Brock Peterson or David Winfree or Eric Lis to make room for Ruiz? Matt Moses, maybe. Again, if this is one of Smith’s inexcusable crimes, I’ll post his bond.
Not solving the RP problem after Neshek went down, yes. The Delmon trade. Not yet. The Santana trade? Way too early. Could you give him some slack, and be more fair regarding Gardy?
thry
that deal better include something else (ie beltre for a lesser prospect); taking on a below average pitcher that might be our 5th starter, who will make 20 mill over the next two years and giving them a decent RH hitter with pop and a cannon arm in RF who will only make about 14 mill over the next 2 years in comparison isn’t good, at all.
sane,
Drinkin a little early today aren’t we?
I don’t know about Crede’s injury. It was a herniated disk.
as a matter of fact there were 2 herniated discs. Operations were done on both of them twice. Only 10% of herniated discs require operation and only 1% 2 or more operations. Bad news.
“Giving Gardy an extension, despite being in contract for 2009…..That delivers the wrong message.”
The message was that the organization liked and appreciated Gardy’s work.
Whether the Organization is delusional (or not) is open for debate, but they correctly sent the message that they intended to send.
Sane, you need to think ahead, dude.
thry…
only 1% of herniated discs require 2 or more operations? you’re a stats machine for medicine too? Love it!
that said, you really shouldn’t be comparing Crede’s operations with that of the average joe getting surgery on a herniated disc. I also have a herniated disc, and could very well get surgery on it to correct it, but will I? probably not. I’ll just live with the arthritis at the age of 30 (sadly).
Also in medicine, the word ‘require’ is a subjective term. He could very well function with a herniated disc as non-baseball player, popping pain pills and the-like. but to be a baseball player, your body needs to be as close to 100% as possible, and if surgery is an option (that is safe and reliable), one would think it is ‘required’ in his case.
just some food for thought.
msm,
washburn is a free agent after 2009, so basically the Twins will be trading Cuddyer’s $16.2 M (09:$6.75M, 10:$8.5M option buyout $1M, for Washburn’s $10.4M. Washburn put better numbers overall than Perkins last year. From the 4 OFs Cuddyer is probably the one to go. Not much pop last season and Young is a better defender than Cuddyer in RF.
I don’t see how people can rip the front office and gardy. With the economics of baseball the way the are and the success the Twins have had over the last decade, you have to consider them to be the most efficiently run organization of the last decade. It’s really no question to me. The A’s are really the only other small market team comparable in the AL, but they have more ups and downs. Sure it’d be fun to watch a front office make all kinds of moves in the offseason, but most likely it would put the team in the position it was in during the mid 90s.
That being said, I still think there is time to make a good move or two this off season or before the deadline. If there is room in the payroll, I’d really like to see them sign Crede. He is a very big risk, but he could be a perfect fit for this team and one that would put them over the top. An incentive deal would be perfect, but I think its worth the risk even if we have to gaurentee the money.
msm,
the point also is that the avarage joe will be less likely to recuperate from from a back issue than an athlete who is in top shape. The fact that an athlete has less success than the average Joe or Jane (who might be 50 lbs overweight too) is a bit problematic
(as far as the surgery numbers go: I am working on a piece on previous position players and how they fared after back surgery to try to see what is the likehood of Crede repeating 2006 and had to research the numbers)
thry
ooo crap. i was counting his 08 salary as 09, and 09 as 10. if he only has 1 year, heck do it (my apologies thry)
Houston Street will be a Twin by opening day. Although Im not sure what it will take to get him.
thry
also good points on the surgery piece - would love to read it. that said, the ‘average joe’, whether overweight or not, doesnt need to go through the rigors of a 162 game season in the majors.
What was the nature of Koskie’s back problem? John Castino’s career ended prematurely because of back problems. Both played third, didn’t they?
Justin, thank you for that post. If only everyone shared your beliefs….
What do you all think about what Reusse supposedly said on KSTP about the Gagne decision, which was effectively that the Twins were lining Gagne up as a second option to a trade for Atkins/Street and had a low-ball offer backfire and cause them to back down?
justin - well said. in a previous post i made, i mentioned this is a buyer’s market and the Twins are buyers. I have a feeling the FO will try and do something for Mr Pohlad and his family - another world series perhaps? one can dream.
With the economics of baseball the way the are and the success the Twins have had over the last decade, you have to consider them to be the most efficiently run organization of the last decade
Here are some other small market teams around the size of the Twins’ market ( http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/baseball_markets.shtml) :
Florida
Arizona
Tampa
San Diego
Colorado
St Louis
What they have in common is that unlike the Twins they won or appeared in a World Series in the past decade.
USAChief–I agree we should expect our FO to be and do the things you write. I’m trying to assess what the reality of the situation is..and it appears to me that many of the posters are operating with false hopes for our FO. And nothing said or written here is going to affect that, no matter how justified we are in demanding any particular action. The Twins roster construction is in no way a democracy. Hell, I don’t think Joe or LEN have any influence.
We’re all at the mercy of the FO’s decisions, however well-informed they may be. And as long as the team does reasonably well, it’s unlikely they will be truly accountable for those decisions.
Thrylos98….nice point, but does that factor in ownership and the money pit that is the the metrodome
WJ,
Koskie had a brain injury. The ones I found so far (and focusing on players who had surgery in their late 20s to mid 30s i.e. Cal Ripken does not make the cut; and still working) are: Ron Kittle, Dave Winfield, Darryl Strawberry, Jose Canseco, Eric Chavez, Mark Kotsay. So far it looks like unless you are a HOF back surgery doesn’t look too good…
In any given decade, no more than 20 teams can participate in the World Series. Since 2000, 14 out of 30 MLB teams have been in the WS.
thrylos98,
Koskie had several back problems in 2003.
Castino suffered from “chronic back pain” and a fused disc.
Careful, Justin. You’re in danger of membership status in the Kool-Aide Drinking Golly Gee Apologist Homer Acquired Intellectual Deficiency Disorder Club.
WJ,
yes, but he did not have back surgery.
thrylos98,
Sorry. Was answering MY question, not yours.
Rob, I’m sure the complaint about no WS appearances for a decade factors in (negatively)ownership. The question is does the stadium situation explain much? Half the teams have failed to appear, but are any of us wrong to have higher expectations?
My real issue is this: if it is so easy to fix glaring roster deficiencies, why are 30 teams not tied for the WS pennant each year?
Birdofprey, good point
Another issue: accusations that the Twins do not aspire to be WS winners seem silly.
But I also hold Jimmy Pohlad to his word to spend 50%+ of revenue on player payroll.
birdofprey,
I think the Twins “failing” has been on focusing on winning their division. This is what a team should do, IMO. The problem is that the Twins are in a weak division. A team built to beat Chicago or Cleveland is going to find a tougher road in the playoffs.
WJ, every team just wants to win their division. Once they get into the playoffs anything can happen. Its not possible to try predict what your team will have to do to beat somebody your going to play in the postseason. Simply because you have no idea what team that would be. Thus you build a team to win your division, and hope you get hot at the right time.
if bill smith loses out on ty wigginton, i really dont know what to say, other than to say it will be seriously infuriating–maybe there should be fan revolt of bill smith, ya know-just demand that he leave town for at least 25 years or something….i know this is stupid but this guy makes me nuts and i dont need any help in that area….friggydiggy
You twins fans need to get a life.Joe Mauer is the worst catcher ive ever seen. In fact I don’t even think he could even catch the clap. If you losers wanna see a real catcher come see me in chicago this year. You stupid twins fans aren’t worth the three bull spit players I got traded for. I LOVE U. signed AJ PIERZYNSKI
