Tuesday morning update: Wigginton, Washburn
Posted on February 3rd, 2009 – 9:20 AMBy Joe Christensen
The Orioles have signed Ty Wigginton to a two-year deal, according to Ken Rosenthal, at Foxsports.com. Haven’t seen the money yet, but Wigginton is expected to play first base, DH and back up Orioles third baseman Melvin Mora.
John Hickey, of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, reported yesterday that the Twins and Mariners recently discussed a trade of OF Delmon Young for LHP Jarrod Washburn and C Jeff Clement.
If that’s true — and we haven’t confirmed this – perhaps the Twins had plans to spin Clement off as part of another deal. The Twins have this Mauer guy at catcher, and one of their top prospects is catcher Wilson Ramos.
The Washburn part makes sense, however. The Twins tried getting him last summer. Washburn, a Wisconsin native, will make $10.35 million this season in the final year of his contract. The Mariners are trying to shed salary, so they can add Bobby Abreu or Ken Griffey, Jr., and the Twins have room to add.
Hickey suggests the M’s might be willing to eat part of Washburn’s salary in such a deal. Adding Washburn would give the Twins one veteran in their starting pitching staff. As good as the Twins’ five young starters were last season, it’s overly optimistic to think they’ll all be that healthy and good again in 2009.
If the deal were for Washburn straight up, I’m guessing the Twins’ best offer would be Boof Bonser or Philip Humber, one of their pitchers who are out of options. Again, the key for Seattle in a Washburn deal would be the salary relief.
Update: The Baltimore Sun is reporting Wigginton’s deal is worth $6 million.
286 Responses to "Tuesday morning update: Wigginton, Washburn"
Thanks for the update Joe.
I would like to see what our ninja turtle can do this year, please don’t give him up just yet!?!?!
Booooourns!! This deal is stinky. Although Clements minor league numbers are decent enough - but where the hell would he go? Mauer to 3B? I hope not.
Sure it would be nice to have that veteran in the rotation but how good has that been working out lately? I am fine going with last years starters and if we have to calling up some of the young guys or letting Boof fill in for a few starts if neccessary. If they really need Washburn that bad then trade for him before the trading deadline. Unless Beltre is involved THERE IS NO REASON DELMON SHOULD BE MENTIONED
buy high, sell low. good strategery.
Save Delmon! Save Delmon!
[…] Around the Majors – […]
It’s way to soon to give up on Delmon. He had good numbers for his first year on the team. You have to remember a lot of the current team went through the minors together so he was kind of a outsider. I think he will feel more comfortable this year and will show it at the plate.
The Twins drafted Clement out of high school (Marshalltown, Iowa)in the 12th round in 2002. I think he had already announced his intent to go to college, otherwise he would have gone earlier, since he had just broke the high school home run record.
I agree completely Chad. Washburn at 11 mil being mentioned even though his ERA the last 3 years was worse than any of our starters and hasn’t had a winning record since 2004? What am I missing here? I am all about pitching and defense but would much rather take a flyer on Crede for 5 mil. Don’t we have a lot of guys that can throw up 4.5 ERA’s?
Young for Beltre? At least that makes some sense. Talent for talent and the Twins taking on a bigger salary.
The ONLY way I could live with losing Young at this point is if there were a multi-team deal in the works to bring in a full time young 3B.
Because seriously…he had a bad first half of 2008. That’s it. The guy showed he could hit in the second half.
This deal reeks of rumor-mongering on the part of Seattle.
wow how stupid is he we need delmon young cuddy suck and gets hurt alot you do not trade a guy who has potental to hit alot of homerun bs pull your head out of you as-. you are the only one who needs to go you fat slob
If this team doesn’t sign Crede, Bill Fatass should be fired on the spot.
He’s turned a pretty good organization to a middle of the pack, potential 90 loss team this year.
Washburn’s ERA was higher than any Twins’ starter, and he pitches in a pitchers park, right? He makes a ton of money. If you are the front office you’d rather have Washburn than Abreu or Burrell or Dunn or Wiggington or two relief pitchers? Really? I hope not.
Maybe the Twins are going to trade a pitcher for Mora…..
I have no idea if Wiggy is going to be good or not, but he’s a better option than Cuddy against lefties (DH, 1B, 3B occassionally) or Buscher at all. Oh well.
He’s turned a pretty good organization to a middle of the pack, potential 90 loss team this year.
How could Bill Smith have turned the Twins into anything if he hasn’t changed anything from 2008?
The only difference (off the top of my head) between this year and last is that Reyes and Everett are gone.
Whatever the case, Young/Washburn would be a stupid trade…as the Twins are giving up a need (young hitting) for something they don’t need (old pitching)
Why not throw Span in for Silva as well?
Washburn is an absolute STIFF! I can’t wait to hear what Wiggington signed for in Baltimore. The 2 year number will be yet another example of how transparant this front office is when they whine how tight money is and how unreasonable the players are. Bill Smith will make Kevin McHale look like the greatest GM in sports within 3 seasons.
Washburn for Young?
Is this the response to the “Do SOMETHING!!” entreaties from this blog?
If so, I am begging:
DO NOTHING!!!!!!
DON”T LISTEN TO IDIOTS!!!!
Please, somebody, destroy the Twins Front Office communications net.
USAF Chief!
How about an air strike?
Twins need a backup when they let Mauer walk after 2010.
Read the mariner fan comments in the link above, they are all overwhelmingly against this trade.
Washburn???????? This had better not be true. If the Twins acquire Washburn I will immediately cancel my MLBTV contract because it will be clear that BS has his head stuck in his arse. Washburn is the epitome of WASHED UP!
?
What is the meaning of all this crazy talk? Washburn? I’d rather have Boof or Humber in our rotation than Washburn.
I wish that all these Delmon Young rumors would stop. He’s a good ball player and better then Cuddy.
A few points:
- The rumor is that the O’s have an agreement in principle on a two-year, $6 million deal with Wiggington. His defense at 3b must be pretty brutal to make him unappealing to the Twins at that rate.
- I do not get the whole Washburn thing at all. Are they going to make him a reliever? He’s old, not particularly effective in a huge park, making a pile of money and there are tons of better free agents selling apples on the street corners.
- If money if available then they should go kick the tires on a good starter. Sheets is the wild thought, but Byrd and Wolf are out there at a more modest cost. Take a look around.
- I think the Clement thing is a complete fabrication/speculation. Clement was probably someone’s idea of a really good prospect that MN used to like that might somehow offset the massive amount of money required to make this deal work. It’s one of those that have more basis in “he’s from MN so it’s a *great* fit!” rather than any baseball value.
There is no way the twins would make that trade straight up unless there was some other factor involved. I think everyone knows that. It just makes no sense. I like the span for silva as well comment, man Seattle has some awful contracts. I am wondering what the Twins interest in Washburn is….my opinion is that we would be doing Seattle a huge favor by taking his contract and there would be some incentive for doing it…Beltre or getting a third team involved for clement….Washburn only makes our current team as long relief/backup starter if someone is hurt.
There’s no way Delmon should be included in a trade for Washburn - why even bother with making a trade if we end up getting hosed on it? We don’t need a “veteran” pitcher if his name is Jarrod Washburn since I would rather put my money on our young guys than trade for a guy who really hasn’t shown much in the past four years. Do not - I repeat - do not trade Delmon!
This is the most absurd trade rumor of the off season to this point. And it kills me that some of the Mariner fans think this would be a bad deal for THEM!
WOW they real over estimate the value of Clement.
Washburn’s ERA was higher than any Twins’ starter, and he pitches in a pitchers park, right?
Washburn had slightly better numbers than Perkins last year:
OPP OPS .808 vs .837
WHIP 1.46 vs. 1.47
k/BB 1.74 vs. 1.90
K/9 5.10 vs. 4.41
was much better away from Seattle, had the worse year of his career and played for a loosing team.
That said, I think that this rumor is garbage; the Twins FO does not leak stuff and there has been not a single word out of Seattle before the other deals that the Mariners did this year.
Wiggington going to Baltimore is bad news (maybe) I can’t believe that anyone watching Buscher on the field would think that Wigginton will not be an upgrade. Silver lining: Mora might be available.
Oh, and Delmon Young has to stay unless we get something that’s better than Harris/Buscher at 3b, better than a 23 year old LF with 700 AB of .300 hitting behind him, and cheaper than all of them. Washburn is none of these things even if he’s parted out in some organ donation scam. (And for the record I am not in favor of trading for veterans just to sell their organs. That’s totally not my point.)
I’m really shocked at how serious you seem to be taking this Joe, and how supportive you’d be of bringing in Washburn. The guy was absolute junk last year in a pitcher’s park.
This is complete b.s. - they could have had Garland and a host of others for much less w/o giving up anything.
I hope this is a ploy by the Twins to get the fans to appretiate Delmon, AND STOP BOOING HIM AT GAMES
Good point above. If you have money to spend on a starter, why not sign Sheets? He’s got the potential to be their best pitcher. Washburn is not likely to be any better than their 4th or 5th best pitcher (and they have 4-5 of those between the majors and the minors already). I hope this is silly rumor mongering.
Another good point, are the Twins afraid they’d lose Mauer? Will they move him to 3B to make him less valuable? I don’t think they think either of those, but it’s not the dumbest thing I’ve ever typed here….
Delmon vs. Cuddy…If they are both healthy this year Cuddyer is a better player…Delmon has more potential but he needs to change his approach and not give away some many ABs. So far he has shown no willingness to do this…thats why the Twins are shopping him…also theres nothing wrong with seeing what a team is willing to give up for Delmon, we haven’t traded him yet and we aren’t in a position where we think we have to trade him.
so in our quest to find RH power we are trading the little we have?
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, we don’t really need Washburn, but he only has a year left and you can never have too much pitching. I have been all for getting rid of the overrated first pitch swinging Delmon Young though, and if we could then go and trade Clement for relief help, and then sign Joe Crede, I would feel a lot better about this team
Three million a year for a RH hitting 3B? They can’t/won’t pay that to the guy that CRUSHED LH pitching last year? I almost typed this in all caps. Seriously, 2 years $6MM, they wouldn’t/couldn’t top that?
Twins could be looking to get clement to package with a blackburn/perkins and solve 3rd base issue or trade for relief. Washburn can then take over #5 starter role for a year.
We do have a surplus of young starters in the majors or almost ready that I think should be selectively used to sovle other gaps. Just not our top 3.
I am convinced that this deal started with Beltre and Washburn and not Clement.
mike,
“Will they move him to 3B to make him less valuable?”
“it’s not the dumbest thing I’ve ever typed here….”
I think you are wrong on both counts.
You have always been much closer to reality in the posts that I have read.
sid, you made me laugh there. thanks.
Leave Delmon in a TWINS uniform…don’t get rid of him!
How about spinning Clement to the Brewers in a package for Hardy??
No way we make that deal. Why would we trade for pitching when we have a logjam of pitchers the way it is??? I’m very sad to see Wiggy sign with Baltimore. Can the Twins honestly say signing him to a 2 year deal would have been a bad move? He isn’t Mike Lamb or Tony Batista. He’s a guy who’s been very solid for the last 4-5 years and is only 31. It’s just sad…
If we want a veteran starter, they should save the money and sign Sheets like mike said. Sure he gets hurt a lot, but he’d still get more wins in half a season than Washburn does in an entire season.
Sign Ben Sheets!!!
“Dec. 17, 2008 - 10:16 a.m. - According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Twins likely won’t be in the running for Ty Wigginton because they believe his asking price is too high. Non-tendered last week by the Astros, Wigginton is reportedly seeking a bigger contract than the three-year, $17.5 million deal signed by Casey Blake.”
“Feb 3, 2009 - 10:08 a.m. - Wiggington will receive $6 million for the two years, the Baltimore Sun reports.”
Did the Twins even ask?
That had to be a courtesy conversation:
Young for a 5th starter and LH 1B/C…Twins already loaded with these. Obviously someone in Seattle is smoking something!
Twins could be looking to get clement to package with a blackburn/perkins and solve 3rd base issue or trade for relief.
The problems with this are:
a. the only team that might be a match for the Twins for serious third base help that would require a perkins and clement is the team that will trade clement to the Twins. (as a reminder -not that Atkins is worth that much - Colorado has Ianneta at catcher, who is better regarded than Clement)
b. perkins and clement would get a young closer-level reliever. There are not many teams that would do that…
The only match I can see potentially making sense with such a package is Clement + Perkins +? to the Padres for Chase Headly and Heath Bell.
Wow, ESPN is reporting that the Wiggington deal is 2 years for a total, not annual, total amount of $6 million. His 25-30 HR’s a year wouldn’t have been worth that at all…MORONS.
$6M for 2 years… That is less than Punto money.
Clement & Perkins for Hardy???
I don’t believe this is true at all. It sounds like off season blah blah to me. If it does have a hint of truth to it I think that a trade with the Padres would be a much better deal. Sweeten the deal and bring in Peavy or just give up a pick and sign Sheets.
Bell is set to take over closing duties for San Diego. Perkins + Clement for Hardy seems more of a reality.
I can’t imagine the Twins picking up the phone with Seattle unless the ultimate prize is Beltre. Something’s terribly wrong with this picture.
PS Wiggington is not worth 3mill per. He sucks and is not going to even come close to 25-30 hrs for the Os. Why are so many just crazy for a thirdbasemen.
Good thing they rushed to sign Putno, eh? They paid Punto more than they would have had to pay Wiggington. Wrap your head around that for a moment, and get back to me on Smith….
I am sure the Twins would have to include much more then Perkins and Clement for J.J. Hardy.
Yeah, you’re right Joe, that one veteran we had on the staff worked out so well last year also….
Why would the Twins want to obtain an old pitcher who has lost more games than he has won with teams that won far more games than they lost? The Twins should be able to get a much better player for Young. It looks like the Twins are just trying to shave off salary from the team again.
The head national scout for the Angels believes that Delmon Young will be one of the elite players in the league within the next few years. Now remind me again why are we considering trading him for a washed up local midwestern farmer and an another insignificant denny hocking type player?
This would be the worst trade in the history of the Twins organization.
If this Young trade goes through it might go down as the worst trade ever made in Twins history. Why trade away our best outfielder? Gomez is streaky at best, Span is completely unproven, and Cuddyer is injury prone. So what if Span goes back to being the crappy player he was before last year, Cuddyer gets injured, and we traded away Young? I can’t believe that this trade would even be considered.
No thanks to this horrible trade rumor. How about one post-season rumor that isn’t a complete joke and incredibly disheartening?
I’m not getting excited about this just yet because it’s a rumor. It would, however, be a bad deal imo. Incidentally, those of us who want the FO to improve the club should not be lumped in with those who think the club should “do something” just for the sake of doing something.
If we trade young for clement and washburn I’m giving up on bill smith and becoming a member of the Brew Crew. This is more ridiculous than those rumors of what Colorado was asking for Atkins.
I don’t believe this rumor for one second.
I would rather have Punto and his salary and Wigginton any day of the week. Wiggy isn’t even a third baseman any more at this point.
“Dec. 17, 2008 - 10:16 a.m. - According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Twins likely won’t be in the running for Ty Wigginton because they believe his asking price is too high. Non-tendered last week by the Astros, Wigginton is reportedly seeking a bigger contract than the three-year, $17.5 million deal signed by Casey Blake.”
“Feb 3, 2009 - 10:08 a.m. - Wiggington will receive $6 million for the two years, the Baltimore Sun reports.”
T: Care to spin this one?
Don’t assume that this is a potential trade under consideration by Smith. We don’t know this.
Can they ask for Carlos Silva back instead? Or how about Ichiro for Gomez straight up.
Hi Chief, glad to see you were able to take some time out of your busy day to call out a fellow commenter.
Feel free to sod right off.
for what it’s worth…
jeff clement is absolute garbage defensively. his future will not be as an everyday catcher. he reminds me of matthew lecroy. unlimited power, but not much else to offer.
anyone who doesn’t know who jeff clement is, take a gander at his high school and college numbers. absolutely ridiculous.
Can they ask for Carlos Silva back instead?
You’re joking, right?
Right??
Think of the best possible senerio that could benefit our twinkies. Now think of the complete oppisite and you will have your answer to what we do.
Seriously I think all our teams (twins, twolves, wild) front office get together for happy hour once a month and come up with the stupidest trades and accusitions I have ever seen. The vikes use to join them but now are trying to stay out of the bars to portray a better “image”. Look what that has done for them in the past year.
Do they still have Jay Buhner?
T: I though not.
Chief, It appears the O’s don’t consider Wiggy to be an every day 3B. Why do you suppose that is? Or do you think they plan to move Mora?
acquisitions, not accusitions.
T: I though not.
Just out of curiosity…when was the last time you posted something that wasn’t a direct attempt to piss off another commenter?
And I admit it could be more recent than I realize, simply because I’m really trying hard to ignore everything you “contribute”.
You’re either joking or smoking, Carpy.
I’ll repeat the call of several on here:
Joe, if the Twins are considering spending money on pitching like Jarrod Washburn, please find out if they are considering signing Ben Sheets. Even if Seattle pays half of Washburn’s salary, that’s $5mm for a pitcher who is nowhere near as good as Sheets, who reportedly has an $8mm/year pricetag.
If the draft pick is the concern, I am betting that Delmon Young is a much surer bet going forward than our 23rd pick in the draft.
There is no scenario where
career of 23rd pick + 2009 Jarrod Washburn
is better than
career of Delmon Young + 2009-2010 Ben Sheets.
THis deal makes no sense for the Twins. Not only do they have five good young starters, but they have six guys who could start for this team in 2009: Boof, Humber, Mulvey, Duensing, Swarzak and Manship. They don’t need to spend $10 million for depth. I can see getting Clement if you flip him for someone good to play third base. But then, why not just trade Delmon and Humber for Beltre? You get the third baseman and middle-of-the-order bat you need and Seattle gets salary relief.
Maybe when they “discussed” this trade the Twins FO said “no.” (And, because they are MN nice, they didn’t laugh until they had hung up the phone.)
Whats wrong with Delmon? He hit almost .300 last year. He has never put up big numbers with HRs and his fielding (while not Hunter like) is not that bad. He has just as many errors as Gomez. Washburn 09 = Levon Hernandez 08.
They have Mora at 3B. Why would they play him there? The Twins don’t have a Mora type, so I think they’d play him there if they signed him, which they didn’t. I’m sure there are good reasons why. I don’t know what they are, but I’m sure there are.
I hope they do deal Mora to the Twins. I’d be all over that idea.
Chief, It appears the O’s don’t consider Wiggy to be an every day 3B. Why do you suppose that is?
Perhaps because he’s not real good defensively and they already have Melvin Mora?
Just a WAG.
When I read “discussed a trade”….I sometimes wonder just how much “discussion” actually took place.
I imagine something like this:
*ring ring*
“Hello, Bill Smith speaking.”
“Hey Bill…say…we’re wondering, you checked in about Washburn a while back…are you guys still interested?”
“Maybe. What are you thinking?”
“Well we like Del-”
*click*
Or something like that.
must resist….
I don’t buy it at ALL!!! and unless Beltre is coming here and has changed his mind and wants to sign an extension then NO way DY should be traded for that garbage.
NO matter what happens, its interesting to think that a trade involving Delmon Young would create the fifth generation of spin offs since the Knoblauch trade.
Knoblauch –> Brian Buchanan –> Jason Bartlett –> Delmon Young –> ??
On a more serious note…didn’t Boston have to “take on” Lowell’s contract in order for Florida to part with Beckett? Or am I getting my deals crossed up?
That was the feeling I got last year when the Twins first came up in Washburn talks. You know, trade Cuddy for Washburn as a sort of “Well let’s swap bad contracts” and then tag on the “real” trade of Beltre and whatever.
But I can’t believe the Twins would consider Young/Washburn straight up. There’s absoutely NO gain there…all the Twins would do is lose a young hitter and gain an expensive arm of questionable value.
If eating Washburn for a year is the only way to get at Beltre…then okay, let’s see what they can come up with, but ECK otherwise.
I think you’re onto something, saam. And Cmatt, I agree, except the faire trade would be Cuddyer/Humber/Duensing for Beltre/Washburn, something like that, and NOT DELMON!
For Seattle, it has to be all about dumping salary, and they have to be desperate to dump a lot, since they have $42M committed to four players: Beltre, Silva, Batista, and Washburn. It’s not logical to think we’d take on Washburn and his salary without Beltre as the prize, is it?
The Twins decided that Wiggy was an “adequate” (meaning inadequate) third baseman.
That decision (unlike Blake decision) was NEVER about the contract.
If Wiggy would have signed for NOTHING, that would have been totally irrelevant to the reasons why the Twins were disinterested.
He is not a good enough defender at 3B.
How is that related to his contract demands?
sid
He can’t be worse than Buscher.
WE DON’T NEED ANOTHER STARTER!
If they’re going to trade one of our best up-and-coming players, the least they can do is fill a need. 3B or relief pitcher, you dunces.
“He (Wiggy) can’t be worse than Buscher.”
Let’s hope they have an even better plan, I guess.
So with the exception of Blake, who wound up at 3B with the Dodgers…the other two “targets” for the Twins have wound up not playing the position the Twins would’ve needed them to play.
DeRosa was dealt as a 2B to the Indians where he will likely play 3B.
Wiggington was a 3B who ended up as a 1B/DH with the O’s.
Maybe we can convince Manny to sign for a one-year deal at below market value to play out of position and take over 3B. It appears to be the trend.
Again, until something actually materializes, assume the conversation went along the lines T described in his 11:04 post. I mean, rumors are rumors. How many actually yield roster changes? Plus, even if something materializes, there may be another deal involved as a consequence and, at the end of the day, the Twins will be better. All that being said, it still concerns me that Wiggington was too expensive and a bad fielder according to the club. Well, for $6 million over 2 years, I’ve gotta believe that’s a lot more offense and no worse defense (probably better) than Buscher at a pretty reasonable price. Although that doesn’t exactl inspire confidence in the FO, I still hope there is a plan to improve and we’ll like the results.
Trading Young would add an exclamation point to the fact that brain dead GM Billy Smith made a terrible trade with Tampa to bring him here. We lost 2 very good young players in Bartlett and Garza. Those 2 would definitely help this team. The Twins need to hire a qualified GM.
I am glad we didn’t sign Wiggington…I think the stradegy is to see if the can get a 100% healthy Joe Crede at a discount and if not go in with Buscher and Harris….don’t forget that Seattle is terrible and will most likely be out of it by May/June…then if we still need production Beltre could be brought in for just a prospect or two instead of having to deal a frontline starter and OF
saam,
Buscher is also an “adequate” (meaning inadequate) third baseman.
Are two of those, better than one?
Plus, we don’t have to go out and get Buscher. He can be shipped, if we sign Crede. (or Grudz, or whomever)
And if Delmon is traded for crap; Cuddaver gets injured and Kubel becomes THE RF; then Buscher can be the inexpensive DH.
I don’t see how losing Delmon and getting Washburn/Clement makes the Twins any better.
Well, hold on there Joe…
“As good as the Twins’ five young starters were last season, it’s overly optimistic to think they’ll all be that healthy and good again in 2009.”
Boof Bonser has a projected FIP around 4.30 - 4.43 by the major projection systems. Jarrod Washburn’s FIP is projected to be around 4.60 - 4.78. Isn’t it just as fair to say that “it’s overly optimistic to think that Washburn will be significantly better than any of our current backup starter options.”
If we have to take Washburn in order to get some other, useful talent, a deal might be OK. But there’s no way that Washburn is a “solution” to the “problem” of having 5 young, quality starters when we already have Boof as a backup (and Mulvey, who is not projected to be that much worse than Washburn).
I think it’s letting management off the hook to talk like Washburn would bring intrinsic value in a trade - the only argument for that is that he wouldn’t be terribly worse than the pitcher he would replace (Boof).
That is ludacris, Washburn is washed up and even if Clement would be involved in another trade wouldn’t score much. I am not saying Delmon is going to be a great player, but he is young and still has a lot of maturing to do. I am sick of hearing tha Cuddyer stays and Young goes. Michael Cuddyer is always hurt hits for a less avg and is there because he is a better club house guy plain and simple.
Hope your boss is more forgiving of your transgressions than you are of Smith’s arguable but likely transgression, Sux.
We lost 2 very good young players in Bartlett and Garza.
Bartlett put up numbers comparable to Punto’s last season. Don’t let the Ray driven “OMG MVP!” hype fool you.
did i miss the report where bill smith went to work for the seattle organization–are they losing their pea-pickin brains in that f.o…..trade delmon for some washed up has been and a catching prospect that we dont need..please tell me this aint so…..im in shock, but then why should i be after watching bill smith for this long….somebody please step in and save this organization….
Washburn (Wisconsin) and Clement (Iowa).
Did Sid Hartman suggest this trade?
Very good point, greenmachine.
The Twins would make a huge mistake giving up on Young. He will be productive. Shed him for Michael C.? AS much as I like Cuddy (as a player and to look at), his best years are behind him.
I don’t see how losing Delmon and getting Washburn/Clement makes the Twins any better.
It doesn’t, which is why I have a hard time believing this “discussion” was anything more than a brief conversation at the tail end of some other conversation.
My best guess would be that the M’s or Twins contacted the other about dealing. The M’s possibly asked about Young, or the Twins asked about Beltre.
Talks got going, and at some point Washburn/Young came up. Then likely was quickly dismissed.
Did I miss something, everyone seems to be talking like this trade actually happened. There’s and amazing amount of trades “discussed” in an off-season, and occasionally one gets leaked (like this one)
It will never happen, and should never happen.
There you go again, mj1. You’re ripping on the FO for some imaginary crime, did you know that? Does anyone detect a pattern here?
Yeah, Bartlett as the MVP of the Rays is overstating his performance.
If Cuddaver is such a good clubhouse guy, then send him back to the clubhouse after the National Anthem.
If this report out of Seattle has any truth, why the hell would Bill Smith trade a young promising hitter for an old almost washed up lefthander? Do the Twins really need more and more pitching? Even if he gets Clement in the trade and swaps him in another deal for a hitter, it still doesn’t make any sense?
People, people. As Joe points out, there is no way they are thinking about Clement unless he is for somebody else for somebody we actually need. Hopefully an infielder on the left side. I’ll agree though, I have no idea what this team has seen in Washburn since last season when we first started hearing about him coming here. Maybe a sympathy signing after we let them sign Silva? I don’t know… can’t have anything to do with his numbers. Maybe they invented a time machine and they are going to send him back to 2003?
Washburn (Wisconsin) and Clement (Iowa).
Did Sid Hartman suggest this trade?
If Cuddaver is such a good clubhouse guy, then send him back to the clubhouse after the National Anthem.
Sane is on a roll!
Post of the month, and a strong, strong followup.
Well played sir, well played.
sane he spends most of his time in the clubhouse doing rehab on his latest injury and practicing magic tricks.
Fans burbling about numbers cracks me up. Have you ever seen the guy pitch? On TV? In person? Did you pay a guy to go watch him pitch and get back to you with his educated opinion? Nope. But I saw his numbers, and he must suck.
When Cuddyer screws up a card trick he can easily blame it on his bum fingers.
I can’t imagine B.S. is actually serious about this trade - if so it would be horrible! Please get something of value if we’re going to give up on Delmon so soon!
I am not that thrilled with Delmon overall, but trading him for a pitcher and 2nd string catcher isn’t what I had in mind in using Delmon’s value to bolster the Twins. The Twins need a 3B or 8th inning pitcher, neither of which is part of this proposed trade. I am still in favor of getting rid of Delmon, but not for this.
That’s right Di quella. We all just looked at his numbers and then talked. None of us have ever seen him pitch, even on TV. He sucks.
I hope this deal does not go through. It would be a joke. We do not even know if Cuddy can stay healthy for a whole year and to be honest, he had one good year. Other than having a cannon for an arm, what is the upside to him. Does he keep the mood in the clubhouse light with his magic tricks? Come on man, he is terrible. We should be shopping him, not Delmon!
ggg,
“he spends most of his time in the clubhouse doing rehab on his latest injury and practicing magic tricks.”
He can’t hurt the club doing that.
That reminds me:
sane at age 17:
“I thought…”
My HS baseball coach:
“Don’t think! You’ll hurt the team!”
“Have you ever seen the guy pitch? On TV? In person? Did you pay a guy to go watch him pitch and get back to you with his educated opinion? Nope. But I saw his numbers, and he must suck.”
At this point in his career it doesn’t matter how he looks. If the results say he sucks, then he sucks. We aren’t talking about a 21-year-old with lots of time and room to improve.
Wow, that would be another STUPID trade by the Twins. Too ridiculous for words.
Why would you trade so much potential for a 5-6 game winner who has a $10 mil contract. Good lord-wakeup. Get us a GM who knows how to horsetrade-not keepdigging a deeper hole. What is he afraid of. Improving the club-this is improving the club?
To all you Delmon lovers, are you ready to watch another year of baseballs dropping in front of this guy? Our CF had to cover more of his ground than he did.
your heard it hear first…..the Pohlad’s don’t fall far from the tree….. the twins will sell out the new stadium the first few years….there is no reason to be high payroll and competitive….they will folow the model of the wild…..maximize profit….low payroll…lose 90 games….starts soon by not keeping anyone that will be expensive( D-Young) in the future and that will include Mauaer when he is due $20M per year
I’d rather be bored (as I have been all winter with regards to the Twins) then to get rid of Delmon Young. I just think there is so much potential with this guy.
With Gomez and Span in center and right, you could just put a bucket by the line in left.
B.R.
The Twins can get a lot more for DY if they decide they want to trade him. They don’t have to settle for another team’s castoffs.
Randi and I think alike …
Dave,
Delmon is cheap now and will only become expensive if he performs well.
So, why is it the Twins need to get rid of him soon?
You heard THIS here first.
Whatchu talkin’ about, Wayzata?
Does anyone else think we are not being told the whole story?
Why would they give up on Delmon so soon for so little?
Did he punch Gardy in the locker room last summer?
Why did they trade so much for this guy and then decide to give up on him so quickly? Granted, he was absolutely clueless at the plate and in the field last summer, but he is only 22 and they did give up an awful lot to get him. I would not be surprised if the problem has something to do with Delmon’s father.
Also, why are the Twins trading for a catcher? Do they think Red Dog only has one more year in him, or are they that certain that Mauer has signed his last contract as a Twin (which I would not blame him for one bit).
hee hee -
“The O’s had originally offered one year with a club option but upped their offer due to competition from the Giants and other clubs.”
6 mil was the UPPED offer!
oh and Di quella pira - as for “Fans burbling about numbers” etc. etc. - I am an AL junkie, have MLB Extra Innings and I can unequivocally say that yes, Washburn did in fact suck last year.
Pick your poison kids, give numbers and it’s “did you watch him?” Give an observation and it’s “but his OPS+ sucked during away day games on turf from May-July!”
If the Twins do this I am driving to the Metrodome right now to tell Bill Smith he is off my Christmas Card list… or, more immediately, not getting a Valentine.
i would slit my wrists if i saw the twins trade young for Jared…. Ok, maybe not that drastic, but i would run my head into the wall and hate Smith for ever.
I do not like the deal at all, but there is at least a decent chance that Clement has a better ML career than Delmon. I just dont know how he would do it here unless Mauer moves positions or we make Clement a DH…
But a left handed hitting catching prospect seems like about the last thing we need right now.
I would take Washburn for Humber.
Twins could have allocated the dough from the Punto contract and signed Wiggy, then just had Tolbert take Punto’s place…that’s probably asking too much of Mr. Bill though.
Come on Joe, why even write about that rumor. There is ZERO chance that would EVER happen. I cant believe I wasted a minute reading it…..
2 years at $6MM for Wigginton?? Didn’t the Twins use the excuse that he wanted 3 years, and too much money. We couldn’t outdue this deal!!! Pathetic
You better sign Crede Mr. Smith
Well, the Os must not think much of Wiggy’s defense if they are starting Melvin Mora at 3rd over him…
Wigginton was cheap at 6 mil for 2 years. The Twins would have been a perfect fit. Instead we’ll play 2 minor leagures again. Great. The Twins WON’T make a deal with Seattle. Keep not improving your team Billy. Who’s NOT buying a Twins ticket this year? ME!
Smith will not be getting a Valentine from me, no matter he does (or doesn’t do)! LOl.
When Wiggy went on the market I think the initial thought was that he was looking for a contract greater than Blakes 3yr 17 mil contract…looks like things didn’t quite work out for him as well as he had hoped
Ryan W.,
We don’t have a Mora, we have a Buscher
Delmon will be the biggest mistake since Papi if we let him go. Do NOT trade him, esp for Washburn.
If Bill Smith trades Delmon Young for what’s left of Jarrod Washburn and his bloated salary, he needs to be walked out of the Dome and told to never return. Simple as that. He already looks like a horse’s behind for the terrible deals last year, but this one would REALLY take the cake.
I always say he looks like a
Ninja Turtle!!
trade a number one overall pick. who is 23. for a washed up VETERAN!? wtf? bill smith must be smoking something! if they make this trade im rescinding my season tickets and i am never ever gonna watch the twins again!
Didn’t the Twins use the excuse that he wanted 3 years, and too much money.
That was also like a month or more ago. Twins FO didn’t really say much (if anything) about Wigginton after that.
With Gomez and Span in center and right, you could just put a bucket by the line in left.
But can that bucket hit? 
If the Twins do this, fire Bill Smith now! STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!
Also, I was recently looking at a baseball publication which ranked the top 50 prospects in MiLB for 09, and the top 10 for 2010; not a Twin to be found. It’s time we demand more out of this front office than mediocre trades, and re-signing Nick F’n Punto…
T,
that’s my point. His demands came down so no more excuses not to at least try to sign him
this makes perfect sense. get rid of a player who doesn’t play the “twins way” at least i’ve never seen him slide into first. get a good ole midwesterner has been pitcher who will walk in a year for nothing. allows them to trade mauer who will be to expensive to keep for some prospects.
do it fast before the mariners figure out they’re getting a bad deal!! this could be bigger than the aj trade!
Ben W.
“With Gomez and Span in center and right, you could just put a bucket by the line in left.”
I like this idea. Atleast the bucket won’t get in Gomez’ way very often.
Go ahead and trade D-Young but not for that Seattle trash. No chance this trade was seriously considered by the Twins.
Would anyone in their right mind trade Matt Garza for Jarrod Washburn?
“To all you Delmon lovers, are you ready to watch another year of baseballs dropping in front of this guy?”
I’m ready!
Jon,
But we have Morneau at first- which is apparently Wiggy’s position. Since the O’s do not view Wiggy as an everyday 3rd basemen… then why should we? Their other options are not much better than ours.
Wiggy has a contract because he will be a multi-position role player on a poor team. I have to be convinced that he is the answer..
“Didn’t the Twins use the excuse that he wanted 3 years, and too much money.”
No, the Twins Rob Antony said that Wiggy was “adequate” (translates to INADEQUATE)at 3B.
Not contract length or money. INADEQUACY was the show-stopper.
Clement was originally drafted by the twins in 2002 but did not sign.
Here’s Joe C’s article in which he discusses the Twins not pursuing Wigginton:
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/36274914.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUqCP:iUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
Judge for yourself, but it sounds like primarily a money issue at the time.
In case that link doesn’t work, google “Twins infield looking familiar”
“But can that bucket hit?”
It would be one of the greatest power threats in recent Twins memory.
Was Gardenhire the source of this rumor?
“But can the bucket hit?”
Can Delmon?
Ok Joe, no offense, but have you gotten any sleep lately? Really, Washburn “makes sense?” To who? here are your reasons:
1) We tried to sign him already (mistake)
2) He’s from Wisconsin? (shouldn’t the Brewers be wanting him then?)
3) Seattle wants to dump salary? (Perhaps they realize he is overpaid?)
4) The Twins have room in their budget? (So let’s add a pitcher to the roster that we can pay 5 times what we pay our current starting rotation? not to mention removing 1 of those guys and having Washburn be our opening day starter? Worked so well last year with Livan…)
Joe, put down the crazy pills and lets start calling this for what it is…
Ridiculous rumors that should have never made the front page of the startribune…
thanks
Harris is not a “minor leaguer” and will be better at third than Wigginton would have been. Not as much pop, but he will make up for it with better defense than the horrible mess Wigginton would have brought at third for the Twins.
sane- agreed. I do not recall the Twins ever talking about Wiggy’s affordability- only about his in ability to play 3B.
Walter- the trade would be Delmon for Clement with Washburn thrown in. If it wasn’t for Washburn’s 10 mil, the deal wouldnt be that lobsided. Clement is a to 50 prospect, #1 prospect in the Seattle organization and could easily turn into a high OBP, 25+ HR, middle of the order guy for the next 10 years. Of course he is left handed and a catcher, so I do not think it would be a very good move.
USAFCheif, the article also goes on to say: “The Twins view Wigginton as an average defensive third baseman, at best, whose line-drive swing was perfect for Minute Maid Park, with its short porch in left field. He batted .343 with 15 home runs at home last year and .234 with eight homers on the road.”
“With Gomez and Span in center and right, you could just put a bucket by the line in left.”
Better yet, leave Delmon in the outfield and put the bucket at third.
Same range as Butcher with better hands.
Why are some of you assuming a Washburn for Delmon trade is being given serious consideration by Billy Smith?
My first thought was that this was completely ludicrous, but I can see why the Twins would consider it. Washburn is better than his numbers last year and would provide a veteran presence. As Joe notes, it’s really not likely all those young starters are going to succeed again. Clement makes no sense, unless, as Joe says again and most people seem to have missed, he is being spun off for another piece. That piece would have to be better than Delmon or the trade is a huge mistake though.
Kirby Buckett
Ryan W.,
Rob Antony was on KFAN with LEN III a month or so ago and he did talk about the length and dollars.
Chief,
From your link:
“The Twins like Wigginton but he’s looking for a bigger contract than the three-year, $17.5 million deal . So the Twins have had little to no dialogue with Wigginton’s agent, Dan Lozano.
The Twins view Wigginton as an average defensive third baseman, at best, whose line-drive swing was perfect for Minute Maid Park, with its short porch in left field.”
Maybe money was an issue, but the comments sound like typical FO ambiguity.
They say very little and what they say is often unrelated to what they really think.
I still think that they were not interested at any price, but used the “he’s looking for a bigger contract than the three-year, $17.5 million deal”
as a polite rejection strategy.
But that’s just me thinking, which never leads to any good.
Is Billy on Meth or just eating to many “Twinkies”?
This has to be wishful thinking on the part of the Mariners’ beat writer. This is his thought experiment: “We need to get rid of Washburn and we don’t have room for Clement. So, who might be available? let me see, ah Delmon.” The problem is, Washburn is a net negative–high cost, little benefits. So it comes down to Clement vs. Delmon. Personally, I’d rather have Delmon.
*sigh*
Washburn is as bad as he appeared, and when will the ridiculous “veteran presence” crap ever stop concerning this team? No amount of VP is ever going to make up for not being good to start with.
Why would the Twins give up Garza to get Delmon. Then trade Delmon to get Washup, I mean washburn??? Any of the Twins young arms are better than Washburn. Unless it’s a multi team deal were some team said if you can get Washburn and Clement we’ll give you XXX.
Or maybe they are thinking Washup to the Pen?? This deal makes no sense. I’d have to say its just rumor
or the FO is now doing meth
“Why are some of you assuming a Washburn for Delmon trade is being given serious consideration by Billy Smith?”
Because Big Billy hasn’t exactly impressed us with his decision-making.
MudCat, that’s a great T-shirt idea.
with 10m you can sign ben sheets a much better, when healthy, pitcher than washburn. it would cost the 23rd pick which will be less than 50/50 to suceed.
so its young for clement a 25 yr old lefthanded hitting catcher who gets hurt a lot, seems we have one of those, who has these #’s:
219 ab, 7 hr, 26 rbi, .237/.309/.393, ops 88 for dy who is a righthanded bat and is 23 yrs old;
1346 ab, 26 hr, 172, .292/.326/.413, ops 98. the funny thing is on the mariners blog they all think it’s a bad deal for them.
it doesn’t involve what we really need which is bullpen help and a rh hitting 3b with some power so it makes perfect sense this will be the trade he makes.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
This trade would be downright stupid! The Twins would be unloading one of the most promising young players in the game and they would not be addressing any of their needs. They need relief pitching and a third baseman. They DO NOT need another over the hill starting pitcher (read: Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson). The Twins’ young rotation is a strength and so is Delmon Young.
Another confusing aspect: If Wigginton was too expensive for the Twins at about $6 Million per year, why would they possibly even consider adding Washburn for more than $10 million? If Bill Smith pulls the trigger on this deal, I will have to question not just his skills as a GM, but his ability to even do basic arithmetic!
But LaVelle was very clear that the Twins were often complimentary of Wiggy the last two years. It was only after he was a FA that they started mentioning his D. Take that for what it is worth….but if we trust Joe and LaVelle, that says something about the Twins that I don’t like much.
But I guess I’d be fine with the Bonser or Humber for Washburn trade. They wouldn’t gain much from that, but at least it wouldn’t be much of a loss.
Wiggy was $6MM for two years, not per year.
Iconoclast: why not take that money and sign sheets, and still have Boof or Humber to trade? why would anyone want Washburn over Sheets?
BenW, so all the rest of us posting today are virtually unanimous in our opinion that Delmon for Clements/Washburn is a bad deal, but you think Billy Smith and a dozen other pros within the Twins organization are seriously considering this trade?
There are some great FA’s still out there; go get a couple of them, Twins!
I can’t find anything about a potential Twins/Mariners trade on any other baseball website.
Something in the report above is missing, or else it’s totally erroneous.
mike,
Maybe Wiggy’s skills declined with time and the Twins liked “Old Wiggy”.
Or maybe the Twins enjoy talking like “real” players in the player-acquisition game, even though they know that they are only spectators.
You know, now that I look back…when did the FO ever really say they were high on Wigginton?
I do recall JoeC’s trade targets, but that’s just JoeC posting his thoughts…not those of the FO.
There’s also an older article where Wiggy’s name comes up: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/11698951.html but there’s no direct mention that they’d actually go get him.
Looking around more and more, I see little about Wiggy from the FO and more from sports writers who say that Wiggy COULD be a good match.
Michael Blaine,
“potential trade” and “rumor” are NOT synonymous.
bird, I hope not. But apparently the idea was sprung somewhere and Joe C. doesn’t seem to think it’s too outrageous.
T,
From USAF Chief’s link on 12:56 PM post:
JoeC: “The Twins like Wigginton but he’s looking for a bigger contract”
That sounds like the Twins said that they liked Wigginton.
Just saw a past note from ESPN that Dougie Mientkiewicz is probably not going to be back with the Bucs this year since they signed Hinske, who plays 1B, 3B, LF, and RF, which were the positions that Mientkiewicz played last year…that could be our 3B solution! Plus a 1B backup when Morneau needs a day at DH.
Michael Blaine this was on mlb trade rumor yesterday:
According to John Hickey of the Seattle Post-Intellegencer, the Twins have “some interest” in dealing for left-hander Jarrod Washburn.
Hickey writes that the Mariners and Twins discussed a deal last week that would have sent Washburn and catcher Jeff Clement to Minnesota for 23-year-old outfielder Delmon Young. It’s not known whether that particular deal fell through, but it’s likely. The pieces just don’t seem to fit. Washburn, 34, went 5-14 last season with a 4.69 ERA and the Twins already have a young, All-Star catcher.
Maybe Clement is the replacement for Mauer down the road.
Could it be possible that the Twinkies can’t resign Mauer after his contract is up a couple of years from now.
Maybe the Mauer to red Sux is real. I really hope not.
I hope not too BenW. If we discover that this FO is in fact considering this deal, I will come over to the dark side. The source is known, and no further confirmations have been reported. Thank God.
This is kind of comical… people are name-calling and bashing the front office for a deal that they ‘wisely’ have not made. We don’t know if there is any validity to it.
Obviously it would be a stupid deal IF the Twins accepted it. But 1.) we don’t know if it is actually on the table or just a Seattle writer’s ideas, and 2.) the Twins have not accepted it, meaning that they are wise… So, until they do accept it (which they won’t), there is no need to bash them.
Ok here’s what it says in the article “That could change, he was quick to caution, ”with just one phone call.”
Perhaps that call will come from Minnesota. Sources suggest that the Mariners have been trying to clear some room on the payroll by trading left-handed starter Jarrod Washburn to the Twins.
Boy it sure sounds like Bill Smith is ready to sign on the dotted line to me.
Again, this team trading Delmon is about Gardy’s dislike of guys with an attitude. He loves managing the Twins because it’s easy. The second someone cops an attitude they either 1. ship them off as “too expensive” or 2. bury him in the minors as a “defensive liability” or “to work on the little things.” Actually it’s more than Gardy, it the whole managment crew. SURE, it makes their job easy, and they don’t really need to win here as they can always talk about the great Cleveland or Kansas City markets that allow them to spend more than us. HOG CRAP! Just like this deal. This better be fiction, or else. Also, you’ll never get a writer complaining about Delmon. They are all too either wimpy, I mean these guys cheer signing Punto and Kubel. Those signings are meaningless, and have to happen because you have to sign someone sometimes and they both lick Gardy’s boots. Sick of this afraid to take a risk and wonder why we are always almost good enough, but NEVER good enough since Kelly ran this boat and knew how to manage a few headaches.
Signing Crede and Ben Sheets would be expensive but we’d still be under payroll, correct? With those signings this Twins team could go all the way.
Wiggy has been linked in trade rumors with the Twins as far back as the 2007 trade deadline. You remember…when the Twins were trying to stem the flow of blood from the gaping wound at third base.
Google it. Multiple sources locally, in Tampa, in Houston. If you’re looking for a direct quote from Terry Ryan or Bill Smith, you won’t find one. But that’s not particularly unusual, as the Twins front office (rightly so) isn’t terribly forthcoming when it comes to potential trade targets.
Is this article a joke? Is it April 1st already (April’s Fools Day)? No need to make this trade unless we are getting hella prospects along with Washburn. Also, I only assume we are doing this so we can trade one of our starters for a 3rd baseman. Something seems off here………………….
Please keep Delmon. The guy came to twins fest sicker than a dog.
He could have bailed but stuck it out. The Twins need him. His
potential is high. He can, and will, be a leader of this team.
If anything, ship Cuddy.
Um, you now have to scroll through 10’s of “next comment page” to see comments? Tell me this is a cruel joke.
I’ll feel more comfortable about Delmon when his 5′x5′ strike zone is cut in half.
hmmm. Well I hate the new comments thing where it’s going to take me twenty pages to see the end of the comments. Let’s just say I’ll never actually read this one as there’s no chance at all I’m doing that. I’ll check back in a few weeks to see if they’ve changed this “feature”, but until then I’m done with comments.
We are still looking for pitching bullpen help. Is Brandon Morrow the answer?
Converted starter to closer last year and did quite well considering he’s only been a starter.
This new format sucks.
here is the latest quote by BS on the third base situation:
“We’re confident that those two guys provide everything we need need at the position, and also offer good, solid depth,” said general manager Bill Smith.
from here:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=teamreports-2009-mlb-min&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report
I don’t know whether his judgment is impaired
or whether it is just BS, but this just does not make
much sense
*(and please change the format on the blogs- they are
practically useless now…)
If they dont get a 30 HR 3B or SS back for D-Yo then they might as well just give him to some team for nothing!
Again the twinkies left a good player get away…
If the deal goes down with the mentioned players I will quit being a Twinkies Fan immediately! Delmon is a good player and we better not just give him away. Thats like trading Garza for Washburn and clement. Horrible trade. KEEP DELMON!
So what you’re saying is:
Garza (ERA 3.70, WHIP 1.24, Age 25, ‘08 Salary $404,600) plus Bartlett for Washburn (ERA 4.69, WHIP 1.46, Age 34, ‘08 Salary $9,850,000) ?
Well played… well played.
I read all the comments on all the Twins topics and want to know just one thing. Why dont more people complain about the fact that the Twins re-signed Kubel? I mean I know it is very hard to find a DH that will hit .260 with 18-20 HR and 60 RBI. Especially when you add the fact that he makes D-Yo look like Willie Mays in the OF. COME ON!!!! Kubel is a medicore Softball player!@ Get Griffey Jr. and let him hit 35 HR at DH and teach some of the young OF some trciks. Cuddy and Kubekl are the start of a OK mid-level co-ed softball team!
Trade a young P prospect and the C prospect to someone fora SS or #b with power. Wash Kubel and Cuddy out of the system and lets play BALL!
I was all about the Beltre to Twins movement but if you think about it, it reeks of Tommy Herr and Wally Backman. Beltre would be here for one year and not be invested. Seattle is out of their minds for not getting ANYTHING they can for Beltre. Trading Del would be an epic mistake. No Washburn no Clement!
this format stinks. it takes forever change it back!
This new comment paging system makes the blog absolutely useless. It’s a complete joke. Plus you can’t see what you’re writing after X characters until it wraps. Just because the rest of startribune.com was terrible doesn’t mean you had to adapt to it.
There we go…typing in a random number bigger than the previous one has finally landed me on the end of the comments page.
And wow, how useless it’s become. My comments now stretch out the response section, meaning I actually scroll off screen while writing.
Not to mention it takes THIRTY PAGES to find the tail end (since there’s no “Most Recent Comment” option.
I’m guessing some of this is to help save on page loading by not having to load EVERY SINGLE COMMENT every time the page refreshes, but at the same time it’s next to impossible to actually follow the conversation if I have no idea where the most recent page is.
Sorry Strib, but that’s a really Bork’d system.
PS: When I post a new, comment….I shouldn’t be returned to the FIRST PAGE of comments. Because now I have to go back to the 30th page (using the URL instead of an easy click button) to see if the conversation has actually progressed.
Gee! Just what we need. More pitching and less right handed hitting, Why are the Twins down on Young? Is it too much to ask for Gardenhire to change his managerial style to get the most out of a young player with less than a perfect attitude? Billy Martin once said “Give me 9 .320 hitters who hate each other and I’ll show you a winning ballclub.” I can only think of David Ortiz being asked to advance the runner. The Twins practically took the bat out of his hands, and let him go because he wouldn’t play “Twins baseball”.
Stop with the simplistic “Garza for Washburn” posts… Jeff Clement is a VERY good hitting prospect (#1 in Seatle’s system according to BA) and has a good chance of being a high OBP, 25+ HR, middle of the order guy. Clement has hit 7 HRs in his first 219 ML ABs, Delmon hit 10 HRs in 575 ABs last season. In a little over a half a season in AAA last season Clement hit .335/.455/.676.
I have no issues if you want to rip the proposed deal, fine- I will even agree with you… but do it on its merits…
There we go…typing in a random number bigger than the previous one has finally landed me on the end of the comments page.
And wow, how useless it’s become. My comments now stretch out the response section, meaning I actually scroll off screen while writing.
Not to mention it takes THIRTY PAGES to find the tail end (since there’s no “Most Recent Comment” option.
I’m guessing some of this is to help save on page loading by not having to load EVERY SINGLE COMMENT every time the page refreshes, but at the same time it’s next to impossible to actually follow the conversation if I have no idea where the most recent page is.
Sorry Strib, but that’s a really Bork’d system.
I would like to mirror every mentioned here. Horrible, horrible execution on what would otherwise be a good idea.
There we go…typing in a random number bigger than the previous one has finally landed me on the end of the comments page.
And wow, how useless it’s become. My comments now stretch out the response section, meaning I actually scroll off screen while writing.
Not to mention it takes THIRTY PAGES to find the tail end (since there’s no “Most Recent Comment” option.
I’m guessing some of this is to help save on page loading by not having to load EVERY SINGLE COMMENT every time the page refreshes, but at the same time it’s next to impossible to actually follow the conversation if I have no idea where the most recent page is.
Sorry Strib, but that’s a really Bork’d system.
I would like to mirror everything mentioned here. Horrible, horrible execution on what would otherwise be a good idea.
Fantastic, now I double posted and forgot to close my italics.
Why is Delmon Young mentioned in a trade like this?
Thats about the worst trade deal rumor I’ve heard out
of ANY teams camp this offseason. Credibility rating
1 out of 10 on this one.
Nothing mentioned in this article about this deal
makes sense except Humber or Boof for Washburn.
Wait, the Orioles signed Wiggington for 2 years, 6mil, and we signe punto for 2 years 8.5 Million. What doesn’t seem right here? F’ing twins.
i’ll see you guys when this is fixed! whoever
fixed this must be hanging out with michael phelps.
Did Bill Smith think up this new format?
At least give us a “Jump to last comment” option.
Credibility rating
1 out of 10 on this one.
That’s being awfully generous.
I hate this deal. Delmon Young has too much upside and I liked him in 2008. Don’t make a deal just to make a deal.
Add my reaction to the “umm….. what??” column.
Along those lines…
“it’s overly optimistic to think they’ll all be that healthy and good again in 2009″
…umm… what?
Liriano was “healthy” I suppose, but I seem to recall him taking a while to regain form coming of off Tommy John. We lost Slowey for a while. I’m not saying we had a lot of injury problems in the rotation and there is a good chance of having more issue this year. But they weren’t so healthy as to say it is “overly optimistic” I don’t think. Plus, who doesn’t think that every one of those guys can progress in their development in 2009?? I mean, sure, probably somebody doesn’t have as good a year as last year, but overall I think it is more than reasonable to think our rotation will be better. And let’s see where does this organization have guys at AAA knocking on the door? If memory serves, it is starting pitching.
Wait, the Orioles signed Wiggington for 2 years, 6mil, and we signe punto for 2 years 8.5 Million. What doesn’t seem right here?
Punto was also signed early in the Free Agency period, when nobody expected the economy to have the supposed impact it has had thus far on free agent signings.
May the record reflect that if my previous line stretches past the “border” for a post, I actually have no means of scrolling BACK to click submit. I have to either enter for a new line or just use the arrow key to get back over to the left.
Who greenlighted this roll out?
this would approach cassell for jaric and a first as the worst trade in mn sports history.
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Are you kidding me?!?! Ends up being Garza for Washburn and I will pass on that everytime. KEEP DELMOM until we can get a real player back for him.
I don’t know about that one Joe Blow. The Brewers org is well stocked with Catchers already. They do have a pretty good SS coming up in Alcides Escobar. Same problem with making the Hardy trade work though, not sure the matching pieces are there to make it make sense for Mil.
Let’s see: a broken down pitcher making 11 million per year, and a back-up catcher, for an inexpensive 22 year old with lifetime .295 average, and great power potential. Where do sign?
I have come to the conclusion that this report is bogus. I think that the Star Tribune just got its holidays mixed up; yesterday was Groundhog’s Day, not April Fool’s Day. But hopefully the Twins’ front office is paying attention to this comment thread. That way they’ll understand how angry their fan base would be if they get rid of Delmon Young.
Cod Washburn even be made into a decent reliever? The answer, I’m sure, is no, so then this trade makes no sense, and must be stopped. At all cost. Although I did notice that Young was not in the Twins’ Super Bowl commercial this year . . .
Let me just chime in with the chorus and say how much I LOVE the friggin format change.
Good Lord, STrib, did your IT techie staff graduate from Wisconsin?
I wouldn’t trade Carl Pohlad’s corpse for Washburn.
What a joke.
Would the Washburn deal mean Perkins would be our 8th inning guy??
What is this fascination with “experience” in the rotation?
Washburn steals starts from one of the kids.
Let them start and become “experienced.”
Do NOT do this trade!! Young still has huge potential. I’d rather roll the disc and see if her reaches it then this lame trade. Yuck.
DELMON STAYS!
I accidentally the blog format. Is this bad? I am not good with computers.
The idea of trading Delmon makes me sick. Remeber all of the great stuff they said about how the ball flys off his bat.
I know things are tight at the Strib but this new format is ridiculous. I’m checking out for a week until you get it back to it’s original status. Use your influence Joe or Howard or LaVelle but get it changed - terrible idea. Maybe they let all their IT guys go and turned this over to Sid who knows less about computers than the original caveman.
I agree that Delmon is to much to give for Washburn. Also I thought the Twins were interested in Wiggington. His contract looked like it might be affordable. It doesn’t look like they deal for somebody because everyone wants one of the young pitchers. Maybe the Crede thing will work if they can structure his contract to production.
Delmon will be the heart and soul of the Twins after Cuddyer, Morneau, and possibly Mauer are long gone.
if you want to jump to the end quickly, notice the number at the end of the url on your browser bar that ticks up every time you go to the next comment page… just erase that number and enter a high number like 50. It will take you either to the 50th page or the last page.
Why on Earth would the Twins be willing to take Washburn at 10-million and change, but couldn’t pony up 6-million for a position of need. Wiggy would have been solid here!
whooptie doo
what’s up with the comments now?
what’s up with the comments now?
New and “improved”, just like the Twins’ third base situation 
We don’t want another Big Papi.
Let’s hope this is not true or doesn’t happen. We have at least 15 pitchers in our system that are better than Washburn. Also, why give Delmon to get him? Offer a PTBNL, that is all it should take. Washburn sucks and costs a ton. Every year the Twins roll out the stinky veterans that do nothing but suck and make everyone call for someone from the minors to take their place. Maybe they should learn and just go with youth from the start. You want to spend money on someone Billy, buy us a power bat, not a washed up pitcher that wasn’t really ever any good to begin with.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=3870034
Clement is still projected to be among the best catchers out there, at least sabermetrically.
If the Twins acquire Washburn and pay half his salary and give up Bonser/Humber, I will be officially done with Mr.Smith and I will start rooting for the Milwaukee Brewers. I dont need to invest my quality time into a team I have been rooting for my entire life if the person responsible for its roster is as complete an idiot as this dude is. Unreal. Washburn? Seriously? Veteran starter? I just puked in my mouth.
Clement is still projected to be among the best catchers out there
True
But Mauer is better (yes the Twins do have a lefty
catcher who is just a couple years older than Clement)
If he could bat RH and play a decent third base, it
would have been a different story (maybe)
please fix this place!!!!!!
THE DEAL WOULD ALREADY BE DONE. Seattle would love this deal.
unless they add more star powerd Talent (or switch Washburn for Beltre) they don’t get delmon.
What’s with the new paging system? This stinks. ATTN
TRIB TECH GURU’S: THIS NEEDS TO BE TWEAKED!
How many pages are there on this blog now? I flipped
14 I believe to get here. And I sure as H hope this
isn’t going back to page 1 as soon as the enter button
is hit.
Washburn for Young? Too ridiculous to think about.
Must be something else involved, if there is anything
involved at all.
Is everyone seeing a different format on this blog, or is it just me? I know I threw a hanging curve for someone to hit out of the park with that one…
This would rank as one of the worst trades… Washburn
would be another veteran gone before midseason. I’d
rather see Boof or Humber in the rotation, likely with
a comparable ERA and at a much smaller price. Spend that
money on a third baseman or a shortstop (NLP is not the
answer).
I say you tell Cuddyer to learn to play 3rd or get ready to be traded or get slivers in your ass riding the pine.
I give up!!!
I can’t even get to wherever the most recent comments are located.
See you later. IF/when this gets fixed.
Regards,
Just find the last number(x) in the active link (?cp=x)and change it to:
Total number of responses divided by 6 (approximate).
That should get you to the last page. (or close)
sane,
I change the number to 666 to find the last page;
I find it that it describes this change appropriately >:)
On further review, just change (?cp=2) on page 2, to (?cp=999) in the link and hit enter.
That will get you to the last page unless the string is outrageously large.
I think it would be a good idea to trade DY. He has to be
over the hill, .290 ave. 85 rbi ave yr. at 23 means he
has to be a bust get rid of him before he gets into his
prime. Lets see the 10 mill Washburn will make could pay
for yr of Gagne, Wiggy with 4 mill left over. This guy in
Seattle who wrote this must be drinking some strange
kool-aid.
great…the right handed power bat who can play an ok 3B is gone for a measly 3 mill; brillant
If the twins would want a veteran starter Go after Ben Sheets don’t waste money and a player on Washborn
wasn’t noticed or missed, but after seeing this garbage about Jarrad Washburn… I would pray to christ that if they took Clement they had another trade about done with another team… This is right now yet another Bill Smith questionable decision. While IW as not in favor of getting Delmon Young in the first place, or trading what we did to get him… making another terrible decision to counter that only compounds the bad decision making, and not cancels it out. Jarrad Washburn has not been a quality major league pitcher since he “got paid” tobe a quality big league starter. He is old, and at 10 million he is being paid number 2 starter money. I can’t say that he is better than any of the starters we have, or that he’s better than Boof Bonser, Humber, Robertson, Mulvey or any of the miriad of prospects we have.
Clement however throws me off. Why would the Twins want to have a great hitting catcher with power that is a lousy catcher when you already have Baby Jesus who hits for a high average with no power, and is one of the 5 best defensive catchers I’ve ever seen play the game???
To all those people that love Wiggy, he is not that good. Haven’t we learned our lesson experimenting with Houstons left side of the infield last year. And another thing Joe Christensen, you are an idiot to even state this as a rumor. I would love to hear who your sources are. For the Twins to give up a young prospect who has a ton of upside for a washed up pitcher and then pay $10 mil for his contract to boot, even the Twins aren’t that stupip. How you Joe got to be a sports writer is beyond my belief.
Im all for dumping Young onto the first sucker that will take his. My sister could play left better than him, and he never met a pitch he wouldnt swing at. If no one is fool enough to take him, release him.
Please do dump Delmon, but try to get a better piece in return than WasWashburn.
couple words of advice:
delmon haters - go home
bs haters - go home
this is by no means a BS move, but it is a BS rumor sent
out by Seattle. Seattle has the moronic GM who wanted a
STARTER for washburn last year. now he wants a young stud
for a Catcher who can’t catch and a has been? no thanks
This deal sounds like crap. The Twins were last in homers, but are willing to give up on their 3rd leading homerun hitter, after a so-called down year. Oh yea, he was also in the tops for average as well. All for a ‘veteran.’ Stupid. Our five starters should all be back and we have at least two others waiting in the wings for a shot (and thats not counting Bonser). Why give up on our most productive outfielder.
I’m an idiot!
If Bill Smith makes this trade he should be tarred and feathered and marched around the Metrodome before each home game! Keep Delmon Young unless you get similar young talent in return. For cripes sake Mr. Smith by trading Young away means you have basically given Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett away for nothing.
Sign Crede and keep the rest of the roster intact!
