Agent: Twins reach agreement with Ayala
Posted on February 6th, 2009 – 4:35 PMBy Joe Christensen
The Twins reached agreement today on a one-year, $1.3 million contract with free agent reliever Luis Ayala, pending a physical, Ayala’s agent Joe Longo told the Star Tribune.
Ayala, 31, went 2-10 with a 5.71 ERA and nine saves in 86 appearances last year with the Nationals and Mets, handling a heavy workload despite a groin injury.
After getting traded from Washington to New York, Ayala stepped into the closer’s role for the Mets and converted nine of 11 save opportunities. The righthanded sinkerball specialist went 2-2 with a 3.19 ERA the previous year with Washington.
The Twins agreed to pay Ayala up to $575,000 in performance incentives. After losing setup man Pat Neshek to an elbow injury in November, they’ve explored numerous trade and free agent options.
“He’s happy to go in there and fight for that setup job,” Longo said.
289 Responses to "Agent: Twins reach agreement with Ayala"
I guess this is something.
Thanks Joe. At least there is some action for you to report. OK. Who’s next? an infielder?
Well, we did something, I guess.
Bring on Crede!!!!! Pull the trigger Billy!!!
I don’t mind Ayala. I don’t think he’s better than Crain or Mijares, but he can give some innings. I am comfortable with the dollars, but who comes off the 40 man?
I’m dumbfounded. A 5.71 ERA. How is this better than Boof or Guerrer? Hopefully our scouts & pitching coach see something which is an improvement. At least it’s not a long term contract & “Livan-sized” contract. Oh well, hopefully something will now be done for 3rd or SS…….maybe the injury prevented another 3.19 ERA?
5.71 ERA? I just threw up in my mouth
Classic twins! What a joke. We have better prospects than this dude. That’s 1.3 million they could’ve spent on someone else.
I hate the FO.
I’m willing to give Guerrier my confidence despite his High ERA due to overuse.
Ayala threw in 86 games last year… I think that’s the definition of overuse… he gave up 0 runs in 58 of them.
He’s solid.
The guy had four pretty good years before last year.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/ayalalu01.shtml
I’d still like to see another reliever signed, but it’s not like this guy is a complete scrub.
As for Crede, he’s overrated. If you can get him at a bargain basement price, then okay. But if he wants $5.1 million or whatever Boras wanted in the paper today he can go somewhere else, in my opinion.
He gave up one run or less in 73 out of 86 games, 85%… I just don’t think ERA is the best measure for a reliever, and as Victor says, he was fairly solid for awhile before that.
At least we did something. This move goes to show you that to get to the 40 man we will be making a move in spring training. Probably with the Brewers and JJ Hardy. We will give up Boof, Hummer, and a mid-tier prospect. I think we get Crede at 2.8 mil plus incentives, but will he take that?
As Victor said, too many people looking at only last year when evaluating this guy. He has four pretty good years and one bad year. I think he could rebound and be a good pickup for them.
I dont think this signing is as bad as it appears. Its not like alot was invested, and another arm to try out for the setup role cant do anything but help. I hope this is just the start of move by the Twins.
If seth say Ayala is solid,it’s good enough for me.I still think as sane stated,Slama and Delaney will still get a chance to show their stuff.
I hear what you guys are saying about ERA. That’s valid, but once again, I think the twins are settling for a bargain. They just won’t go grab the division or the pennant. They hope everyone has equal to, or better years than last year, and that is just not reality.
I think that this signals the end of the search for bullpen help. Now they have to move Humber - Bonser or lose them all together. Since they are both inexpensive one of them will probably be dealt
Cory, how do you figure you get J.J. Hardy for Boof, Humber and a mid-tier prospect? Not going to happen.
Saving almost 2 mill not signing Gagne will give BS some wiggle room in regards to Crede.
And I think Ayala will be better than Gagne. Nice deal for the Twins.
Of course they had to get another pitcher. We will be trading at least 2 when we get Uggla!
A fella can dream…
are the twins going to talk to Mauer’s agent any time soon?
Definitely makes a trade more likely since humber now has a much more difficult path and he is out of options. Question is whether it is a small move to just get something for humber or boof, or if they use one of their 5 starters (plus others) in exchange for a 3b or SS. I don’t think hardy can be had for a boof/humber package.
I think a trade is coming sooner rather than later:
BP Locks
Nathan
Crain
Breslow
Mijares or another lefty
Ayala at least to start year
Guerrier
If they go with 12 pitchers Bonser is the 7th.
They are not going to just waive Humber
Heavy work load plus a groin injury. This could be a pretty good pick-up. Now sign Crede!!!
Can he hit homeruns?
Doesn’t sound like they’re handing him the set-up job, he’s going to have to earn it in competition, and that’s as it should be. I totally agree with Seth in that you simply don’t use ERA as your measuring stick for a RP, particularly a middle reliever. He’s been pretty solid most of the last two years. Let the competition for bullpen spots begin.
I feel sorry for Luis. He’s going to feel like the only new kid in class.
Now we can trade Boof for a Class A player with upstart. Hahahahahhaha. Billy Smith for clown of the year award.
Yeah, this could be a good pick up despite the ERA (small sample size with relievers means a few bad outings just kills the ERA). As for Boof and Humber, if we lose one of them, what have we really lost? Particularly with Boof?
Another Tommy John Surgery alum…Interesting that we’re accumulating them
Wow, three straight days!
A groundskeeper, Guerrier and now Ayala.
I……can’t…..keep…….up……somebody….slow……down…..the……front……office……
This guy is damaged goods, yet we won’t sign Crede… LOL
sane, have you been drinking at your computer again?
I’m kidding. I liked the post.
Lee,
No sense in any of your posts.
Not Bill Smith.
You are the Clown of the Year.
Jon, bite me ya clown…
It neither thrills nor disappoints me. Feeding on the bottom of the price market does not surprise me. This is the kind of move they make. It rarely works. This one might, but this is hardly a change from the previous years’ attempts.
Great post at 5:16 sane.
Awesome signing! I bet they will have him play 3rd base too! He probably couldn’t do worse than his pitching.
i just wish they would do something to help our 3b/ss i feel we have enough in the minors to help fill the pen if need be why not take a flyer on crede and try and trade for a good ss
Lee,
Good.
Now you are making sense.
THIS IS GARBAGE, JUST LIKE FAT BILL.
“This guy is damaged goods, yet we won’t sign Crede… LOL”
Big difference, Ayala is 100% healthy right now and his problem was with his groin, not his arm….it’s been said Crede is around 75% and his problem is with his back, the worst fit possible for a team playing on turf.
The Twinkies won’t do squat until the fans revote and stop buying tickets. Until then, bend over…
now go to san diego and offer them delmon and boof/humber for either Kouzmanoff or Headley. Both have pop and both play 3rd.
I hope the team doesn’t give up on Boof. Kid’s got a heck of an arm. He could still get it together. IMHO what he needs is command and tenacity.
I’m still waiting for that Boof Bonser for Derek Jeter trade. It’s Bill Smith’s fault that this hasn’t happened yet.
What is he waiting for!!!!
Well, you can’t say the team didn’t do anything this offseason. Actually, the difference between this signing and last year’s amazing FA class is Ayala has a pretty good track record in the recent past (you couldn’t say that about any of the 4 guys signed last year) and, for reasons discussed above, that ERA in ‘09 can be misleading.
GET RID OF BILLY!
Three straight days!
One more HUGE signing tomorrow!
I can hardly wait!
Then take a day off Sunday.
Oh, and even if he does well, Ayala will cost $1 million less than Everett did last year.
Bill the bonehead.
Fire Bill, he sux!
I’m sure our division foes are shaking in their cleats after this bonehead move.
Cut the fat man..BILL!
sane,
For some reason the words “dripping with sarcasm” come to mind.
Paul, sane has been drinking at his computer again. The only thing dripping is the bottle when he tips it. Or maybe it’s sarcasm.
Paul,
Probably not “dripping”.
Maybe “a touch of” sarcasm.
Stop talking Lee. We literally JUST did something. Quit trying to incite a riot. Ayala had a handful of good seasons before last year, plus we won’t be putting a whole lot of pressure on him to save the bullpen. Our team was 2 runs away from making the playoffs last year and Bill Smith helped us do that. Give the man a break, I’m excited for this year.
The Twins are always happy to JUST fill a hole, never exceed.
Hey Mike, maybe if we had a HR hitter last year we would have beaten the Sox?
Great Move for the money. He had a excellent 2007 season. Joe Crede should be next, for 4 mil guranteed + incentives.
Sane,
Respectfully. No, it’s drippin dude.
Wow, Matt, someone made a post that didn’t suggest we storm the Smith residence like the French peasants stormed the Bastille. Good for you.
good move hopefully this will start our REAL offseason now
No big deal makes little impact in the case of money. If he sucks he is cheap enough to be gone fast, i hope.
The key is he doesn’t walk many, pitches to contact and battles his tailoff.
Well, someone other than Mike, that is.
An acceptable attempt to fill a hole, at reasonable cost with some upside.
Press on, Bill, press on. More of the same. Crede next, please.
This is really a non-move. The likelihood of him making the team is slim. Are they planning to let Humber or Bonser walk? Where does Ayala really fit in our BP? They signed Guerrier. Nathan, Crain, Mijares, and Breslow are almost certain to make the team, so where does Ayala fit? Unless they trade someone or someone gets hurt I don’t see Ayala with the Twins long.
im so sick of you god damm idiots. guess what bill smith knows baseball better than all of you, and he makes about 4 times more money than you do.
On its face, this looks like a bad move. Ayala had a Livan Hernandez-esque ERA in the pitcher’s stadium that the Nationals play in. But I have faith, because over the last 7 years just about every bullpen move the Twins have made has worked out. I still think that Jesse Crain is the eighth inning guy, though. Maybe Ayala is just here to pressure Guerrier into performing a bit better.
Still a good pick-up because there’s a good chance that someone(Guerrier) won’t regain their old form.
Luis Ayala
Career Totals
W L ERA G SV
28 34 3.44 339 18
The guy had 81 (gasp!)appearances in 2004.
shazel,
I don’t that the Twins are saving a spot for Humber.
I meant to say:
I don’t THINK that the Twins are saving a spot for Humber
That’s ok. I’m sure trading one of the five best SP in baseball for 1 player is a good idea….
From May 3 to May 13 he gave up 10 runs in 6.1 innings. 1.8 Strike to Ball Ratio. 9 HRs in 75.2 innings. 6.83 ERA on the road…
Ayala, hmmm… he is a really interesting guy and I do not see potential clashes with Gardy or the coaches or the FO…
here is part of the mlb.com article that described his trade to the Mets last August and sheds some light to Ayala’s suckage last season with the Nats:
Ayala requested the trade weeks ago because he wanted a change of scenery. He said that he lost focus because of personal problems off the field, which included having a divorce and getting shot in his left arm this past offseason. He said that those were the reasons why he was testy toward the local media during the first half of the season.
But a source told a different story. Ayala was apparently unhappy that he wasn’t given the closer’s job after Chad Cordero went down with a shoulder injury early in the season and Jon Rauch was traded to the Diamondbacks last month
Yeap. Great pick up.
“bill smith knows baseball better than all of you, and he makes about 4 times more money than you do.”
Wait until you see my paycheck, buddy!
sorry, here is the link:
You guys would bee otch if they hung you with a new rope.
“You guys would bee otch if they hung you with a new rope.”
Not “you guys”
SOME guys!
Free agents out there are garbage. They are taking a stab at guy with a track record. I have no problem with it. Its a cheap gamble.
I know sane but u know what I mean.
To quote seth:
Ayala threw in 86 games last year… he gave up 0 runs in 58 of them…..
He gave up one run or less in 73 out of 86 games, 85%… I just don’t think ERA is the best measure for a reliever, and as Victor says, he was fairly solid for awhile before that.”
It was a good signing.
Low risk, possible high reward.
Why is Bill Smith getting so much hatred. Lets give him a few years before we judge. Calling him fat and other names is so childish. Its fine if you don’t like some of his moves, but show a little class about it.
kirbyelway,
Yes, I know what you mean and that’s true.
Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait just a gosh dang minute here.
Bill Smith only makes 4 times more than me?
I hope he gets after it and doesn’t scuffle to much.
A couple weeks ago, Stark reported the Dodgers wanted to settle their pitching needs before dealing with the Manny situation. They just signed Wolf and with the Twins getting Ayala, the lone remaining RP of the three they were apparently considering is Dennys Reyes. Sounds like they’ve about got the pitching thing dealt with.
Once they start getting serious about signing Ramirez, Smith may need to step up the activity with Crede. If the Giants become convinced they won’t get Manny, they could turn their attention to Crede pretty abruptly.
USAF Chief,
Apparently Bill Smith makes four times Social Security payments.
If I had made that little at my last job, I would have been far less active in the “off-season” than Bill Smith.
I would have used my “converse while asleep” technique constantly while at work.
To put it one way:
Guerrier:
August: 10.12 ERA
September: 10.00 ERA
Ayala:
August: 5.65 ERA
September: 6.55 ERA
Not a bad signing at all…
That Billy Smith, do his friends call him Flash?
Joe,
any idea who got kicked out of the 40 man roster to open a spot for Ayala?
I was browsing through an old Twins Spring Training Program from 2007 and read Bill Smith’s Bio. He’s been with the team a LOOOOONG time. After reading his bio, he KNOWS this organization and I think our franchise is in good hands. I think many of us have no real image or knowledge of the man, and with George Bush out of office, some have a limited list of executives they can verbally tear down and experience carthartic elation.
Sane….
I’d rather see Guerrier walk and Humber get a spot in the BP. He’s younger with a lot more upside. Do you disagree?
Ayala has decent stuff, and if Anderson can work with him like the Twins have done with Greg Swindell and Dennys Reyes I think that it could be an adequate signing.
For this to be the big signing of free agency in a year with so many great free agents and no one else spending Bill Smith should be ashamed of himself though.
thrylos…
my guess is it’s Sal Butera’s kid. He has limited potential, and will pretty easily clear the wire.
shazel,
If Humber can ever get his Rice University curveball back, then he will have upside.
But it has to be NOW in order to stick with the Twins and time is running out.
Guerrier had three good years, then lost his mechanics last year, due to either overwork or too many high stress appearances.
But at least, he has had MLB success.
I prefer Guerrier to Humber.
There are 40 names on the roster now, but that includes Neshek. I assume there’s a spot open when he’s officially placed on the DL? Don’t remember how all that works.
JC,
ok… that makes sense. Neshek’s spot is freed when he goes to the 60 day DL. Also not sure that the Twins will miss Armado Gabino if they have to use another spot.
Laughable posters here. For weeks it was nothing but complaining about the Twins not doing something and then when they sign somebody nobody’s happy. Shocking.
Now it’s down to Crede or Hardy. Or nothing. The Crede/Hardy dollars are roughly the same. Boof and Humber give the Brewers two starters. They currently have none so beggers can’t be choosers. Throw in a solid prospect that will be needed to close the deal and there ya go. Who’s a SS in the system that we could include as part of the trade?Hardy’s healthy and the HR potential is about the same. Nod goes to JJ.
Ayala is a nice signing. Sure, not a superstar, but he’s being put in a position where he will be able to succeed. Very nice SO to BB ratio, fyi.
Phantom,
IMO, if the Brewers ever make Hardy available, they will get MUCH better offers from MANY other teams than Boof, Humber and a prospect.
That’s because Hardy IS as good as you think he is.
The Brewers can probably get Humber off waivers before Opening Day.
That’s right suckers. Keep drinking that billyboy koolaid… Lamers..
Phantom
Very wishful thinking on your part if you think the Brewers would even come close to trading Hardy for what you suggest. They probably would not even trade Bill Hall for that. I want Hardy on this team just as much as most but unfortunately it will take much more.
Kool-Aid must be brainfood, because some of the posters who won’t drink the Kool-Aid are dumb as a bag of rocks.
Someone explain Kouzmanoff obsession. His BB/K were 23/139. Do we really need another guy with below 300 OBP???
Phantom…
Making a decision doesn’t mean that it’s a good decision so if fans want to complain I think they have the right. It is us who are paying to see the games, and buying the merch… so we should be allowed our opinion unless we lost the freedom of speech at some point in time?
I am not sure where you get your Hardy info because the Brewers have said repeatedly that they are not sure that the kid in AA ball is ready, and are not willing to part with Hardy… they move the other kid to 2nd base, and move Weeks to the outfield.
Either way it is going to take one hell of a lot more than Humber, Bonser, and a prospect.
Think more like Blackburn, Revere Humber/Bonser, and a guy like Jair Fernandez as a throw in.
schurik
Because Kouzmanoff has proved to be a decent fielder, with genuine 25+ homer capability, and he is still young, and capable of getting better.
Where is Michael Young is older, over paid, declining, and possibly steriod tainted. Beltre is most likely steroid tainted, old, high priced, and getting towards the down side of his career.
Because Nick Punto is a 25th man, and Harris and Buscher are 22nd, and 23rd men on the roster. When Punto fails at SS this year, and Tolbert and Harris spend the rest of the season at SS fixing the Punto mistake… you will see Buscher play 3rd base poorly, and when he faces a lefty… it’s about as ugly as Archie Bunker’s views on human rights!
Good low cost, low risk, possible high upside in signing Ayala. Go get Crede and let’s go to Spring Training. I still think there may be a move of more significance before Opening Day. Just a hunch!
The Twins’ FO plays it very close to the vest. Very little info leaks out. They certainly don’t float balloons to see how the wind is blowing with the fans. Ayala is a calculated risk & is not very much money in the grand scheme of things. If SethSpeaks, BC.Beneke & sane all think it is a good signing…… I guess I am no longer “dumbfounded”, just kinda dumb. I respect your opinions & will wait & see. Now if only good old Craig comes in against it, I will be SURE it is a good signing!
I will say this about the moves, or lack there of, that the Twins have made so far. It’s change we can believe in, to steal a phrase.
Should be “Yes, We Can’t”
coco…
I am not 100% behind the signing of Ayala… on my free agent board I have him as the 14th best reliever available… 17 spots ahead of Gagne, but still 13 better in my not so humble opinion.
Werbellik… if I have to bite my tongue politically… don’t tease me. You know how I like to sharpen my teeth on political talk.
BC, you have a free agent board? I am so far behind in trying to bring credible insight to this blog. Thrylos has stats, you have a free agent board, sane has glib wit, and SethSpeaks actually speaks. I got nothin’. I’ll keep reading anyway.
I like political talk too BC, but not here. Only veiled political humor at the very most.
By the way BC, that my last post was meant to be humorous, not preachy. My bad.
Let me throw this out there. What do people on this blog think the odds are that the Twins will sign Crede?
werbellik,
I was just giving you grief… you have a good sense of humor… mine is more like a shark’s smile.
Werbellik,
I want to say 50/50, but with Bill Smith running the show… 10-15%
I think maybe 1 in 3 that we sign him, but not because Bill Smith is running the show. I cannot wait until Bill Smith finally wins you over BC. I’m not sure how he’ll do it, but I look forward to you “gushing” over his GM prowess as the Twins walk away with the division title. That’s a call Dick……..
BC all good points. Kouzmanoff did cut his errors in half compared to 2007 (still had 11 thou). But 139 K? How many rallies is he gonna kill? And how many hr is he going to hit in the dome? (not Righty-friendly)
provided the Twins sign Crede… this is what I would like to see
CF - Span
CA - Mauer
1B - Morneau
3B - Crede
DH - Kubel
LF - Young
RF - Cuddyer
2B - Casilla
SS - Punto (Tolbert/Harris)
With the Twins being so tight financially, and so scared of Scott Boras signing Crede might give them some credit with Boras to not whine too much on putting Gomez in AAA so he can try and learn the strike zone like Span did last year. Also I think Gomez needs 118 games to become arbitration eligable after the season… A good way to keep him a year longer, and a little cheaper. It gives us atbats and games to shop Cuddyer or Young to get the most possible for one or the other, and not reading trade idea that make me actually throw up like Washburn for Young. That was the absolute worst trade offer I have ever seen on here, and it came from Joe and LaVelle, and not one of us, lol.
How hard does Ayala throw?
Typical Twins move, they get a value contract, potential high reward, he could be very good or middle of the road. Personally I like it.
Can hardley wait for Obama Smith’s next move…
I’ve finally figured out this board (wishful dreaming).
Any Twin a poster doesn’t like WILL NEVER repeat a good year or progress. Yet EVERY trade object or FA said poster likes WILL match or EXCEED his previous best season, and WILL NEVER regress in any manner or form.
This observation IS NOT 100% accurate, yet in the mid-high 90th percentile.
Regards,
Paul if you are going to behave like an idiot… go back to whatever porn site you were trolling at before this.
If I have to try to be nice… the least you can do is show some respect and a little class.
The dragon…
I am glad you said this is not 100% because on the occasions when I am wrong… most of the time I am happy to be wrong because it means the twins did better than I thought…
But to think of Punto and Ayala and Dickey as making this team better… it’s hard pressed to see that as a good offseason when we still have over 100 free agents, and some of them are all star calibur…
But I didn’t bad mouth the Ayala deal… he has a chance.
I am surprised at how many of you are down on this signing, Ayala will be a nice fit, he just needs to be handled correctly and Anderson and Gardy will see to that.
I think I have made my point here before that I would prefer Kouzmanoff to Crede but I will not be upset if Crede signs here.
I guarantee that the Twins will not go into the season with 4 starting outfielders and you can paint Young gone, the question is where and for whom. There are clubs all over the place that need an outfielder and many of these teams would be happy to play Young in center. The only way you will see Young in the Metrodome again is in the visiting dugout.
“I guarantee that the Twins will not go into the season with 4 starting outfielders and you can paint Young gone”
As others on this blog have said:
When your guarantee turns up wrong, are you going to replace it with another guarantee, free of charge?
nice comment Sane.
We don’t always agree, but you’ve been on your game today!
half the posters here seem to major scouts or Doctors of some sort.
Tjis is a good signing and low risk with a high reward…..
i still want Crede and will bet he will have a great year if he comes on board.
Doesn”t matter lineyup, projected trades ur smoking stuff that should be shared,.
quit criticizing The Twins and be a fan!
jjswol,
“There are clubs all over the place that need an outfielder and many of these teams would be happy to play Young in center”
Young was not a good enough outfielder to play CF on his HIGH SCHOOL TEAM! (Camarillo HS, CA)
He had to play RF in HS.
NO MLB team would be happy to play Delmon in center.
That declaration destroys the credibility of your entire final paragraph.
Young is not going anywhere. They are not foolish enough to get rid of him unless someone knocks there socks off with an offer.
If I was to trade an OF it would be Span. I am not convinced he is legit. His value will never be higher, get while the gettins good.
Garbage signing.
This guy is not worth the minimum.
They can risk losing Span. They have Gomez, and yes I know he is not a leadoff hitter, and they have a lot of speedy OF’s in the minors. I would take my chances and get a young SS or 3B by using Span.
How hard does Ayala throw?
2-seamer: 91 mph
hard slider: 85 mph
change: 84 mph
he blew his elbow in the first WBC and had TJ surgery, sitting out all 2006 and half 2007. Lot’s of physical and personal crap happened to him in 2008, so there is a decent probability that he will rebound in 2009…
We only have THREE OF’s when Cuddy shows up @ Spring Training & Gardy hands him a infielder’s glove & they start hitting him grounders at 3rd. See how it works in ST. Move Young to RF & Span to left. Bottom line: Cuddy is no worse than Buscher @3rd. Young at least equals Cuddy’s defense in RF. Span is an improvement over Young in LF. Overall improvement on defense……. Maybe?
BC,
“We don’t always agree, but….”
Not a problem.
Agreeing with me will not make you rich.
I know, because it didn’t make ME rich.
coco,
it makes too much sense. (and, yes, Young had better fielding numbers in RF than Cuddyer in 2007 and yes Cuddyer is a better third baseman than Buscher -but everyone in that roster, even Redmond, is)
Ayala, 31, went 2-10 with a 5.71 ERA …..am I missing something here???????? My God…we have become so conditioned to CRAP here as Twins fans we actually think this is an improvement? No, great job Smith…really….really getting the cream of the crop huh?
[…] Around the Majors – […]
Ayala, 31, went 2-10 with a 5.71 ERA …..am I missing something here????????
just perspective:
Carlos Quentin 2007: .214/.298/.349
Ryan Ludwick 2004: .220/.278/.380
Brad Lidge 2006: 5.28 ERA, 1-5, 1.400 WHIP
Cliff Lee 2007: 5-8, 6.29 ERA, 1.521 WHIP
Your tax dollars at work, Hennepin County residents.
Second verse, same as the first. Or Same ol’ song. “2-10 with a 5.71 ERA!’ Who is the idiot who bought this? I guess Barnum was right, there is a sucker born every minute.
thrylos,
So we’re supposed to hope for one of the best stories in the league to happen every time they sign a FA?
For all of the garbage FAs they’ve signed they could have pick up a couple of legit players that could actally help the team.
I guess, Twins fans, be satisfied with an also ran team and the “respect” it gets for the media, but this team is NO threat to anyone except the grass or turf they step on. It is entertainment and there are more pressing things in life. The “freak” world Series wins in 1987 and 1991 were that, freak. Minnesota Freaks, not Twins, unless you like repetition of mediocrity.
So we’re supposed to hope for one of the best stories in the league to happen every time they sign a FA?
No
but Ayala:
sat out all 2006 and half of 2007 with Tommy John surgery and in 2008 he was shot by a friend of his in the offseason in a hunting accident and his wife divorced him during the season. His stuff is interesting, right handers hit nothing out of him, his velocity is up but someone the last two years told him to rely more on his slider than his sinker (and did not work that well). Plus he has been overworked. This guy is not Ponson or Ortiz. There are some question marks, but there is hope
So, all of his issues are all of the sudden gone?
Fine they sign this guy but then if they are going to overlook Ayala’s shortcomings/issues then they should be all over Crede.
Dudes: The Mets LOST their division because their bullpen sucked! Last time I checked Ayala was one of the culprits and one of the REASONS the Mets didn’t make the post-season. With a bullpen that bad if there was even a slight thought that Ayala could help nail down a victory he’d still be a Met. Instead we got him. If anybody even remotely thinks this guy is the answer to our 8th inning woes you need to do another bong with Michael Phelps!
Piss and moan for the FO to get off their ***** and do something and everytime they do its more pissing and moaning. If they went out and signed Crede tomorrow half the people crying for him now would turn around and say what an awful signing. I don’t get why some people even bother if all they do is piss and moan.
Let all the miserable complainers wallow in their own misery.
That is where they are happiest.
Like pigs in sh-t!
Skips:
We wouldn’t “Piss & Moan” if the Twins actually signed someone with credentials that = “Player” instead of “Stiff” or “Might rebound.” Terry Ryan did not believe that Free Agnets ever made a difference, consequently, he never signed any good ones. Andy McPhail signed a few and it got us two World Series Championships. Our farm system is so well run we can compete forever in our division, but until the FO signs a “REAL” free agent or two this club will never get back to the Series.
Skips,
You call the FA’s the Twins have signed in the last few years “every time they do something”?
If that is your idea of doing something, it’s no wonder Twins fandom has become so accepting of these garbage FAs. All of the sudden signing anyone is “doing something”.
And for the record, I would not change my tune on Crede at any point. I say he’s worth taking the risk.
Mike C,
I think that third base (and a power RH bat) should have been a bigger priority than the bullpen.
I’ve been going back and forth in my head about Crede and realistically, I think that they should sign Crede, at least just to get Buscher out of there. Crede’s career high OPS+ is 107 (career average 93). For reference, Harris’ career high OPS+ is 106 and average 97. They let Wigginton fly away (OPS+ high 128 -2008- average 105). At this point the best possible (and feasible) ways to deal with third base are (in my opinion and in decreasing desirability):
1. Go out and trade for Uggla
2. Valencia has a hell of a spring, wins the 3B job and is a stud there during the season
3. Cuddyer/Gardy step up and realize that Cuddyer at third is better than Buscher at third
4. Harris wins the job outright and Buscher is in AAA
5. Crede is signed
Signing Ayala could prove a decent FO move, but the glaring need is right handed power from the left side of the infield. Sign Crede!
I agree Thylos, 3B should be the priority. Crain and some of our younger relievers have a better chance of filling our hole in the pen than Ayala, I just see it as a waste.
I would be for an Uggla trade over signing Crede but the trade is pretty unlikely.
I’d like to see Valencia play his way into the position this spring but I still think he needs a year or two.
Cuddy can’t be any worse than Buscher, so why not if we have nothing else. Harris seems little better than Buscher.
I hear what people are saying about ERA not always a true indicator of a good reliever, but who was the last good reliever with a 4+ ERA?
Yeah..exactly.
Guys: Are we suffering from short term memory lapse here? Did you ever see Cuddy play 3rd? I have and trust he’s not better than Buscher. Cuddy turned himself into a solid defensive RF, but even by his own admission he’s not a MLB 3rd baseman. Don’t even go there. Buscher has a better chance to get better than Cuddy does going back. That ship sailed years ago. Crede when playing is an “ALL-STAR” Sorry, but we have money, even if he can’t play 160-games the G-man was the last All-Star we’ve had at 3rd. See my point the farm system doesn’t produce enough studs to get it done at all positions. Sign Crede, if he doesn’t work out we’re out some money (Still under the 2006 payroll)and we can go back to “Pissing & Moaning” about Buscher.
They could have used Ayala last year down the stretch
“who was the last good reliever with a 4+ ERA?”
Brad Lidge 5.28 in 2006
Thrylos, you say perspective, then show a couple 2nd and 3rd year subs that broke out in their early to mid twenties.
This is a 31 year old man
Mike C,
So you’re just fine with a hurt washed up FA as long as you get to choose?
Regards,
Crede is far from washed up. Look at last season, something like 17 HR before his back flared up. Now if he stays healthy, he drops 30-35 HR, 90+ RBI and plays good defense. Even if he plays half of the season he still puts up more HR than what we have now. Worst case, his back bugs him and we platoon with Buscher/Harris and he gives us some situational punch in the lineup.
Well he certainly wasn’t good in that 5.28 year was he?
That was actually the point I was making, sorry for the confusion.
“who was the last good reliever with a 4+ ERA?”
Bobby Jencks 4.00 in 2006
And I’m not complaining, Ayala has enough of a track record, and we have a good track record even with vets that he could very solid for us.. but this is so typical of the Twins.
Ignore a guy like Eric Gagne who has been there, done that, but is now cheap because he’s struggling, and go sign a guy that spent a lot of time in the minors and a lot of time in the rehab room, and hope he comes back from TJ surgery to be a “solid” 3.00 middle reliever. I don’t know how you can possibly get excited about that.
Jenks is pushing it. 4.00 for a team that scores 9 runs a game. What would he have done on the Twins in 2006?
Dragon:
Hurt maybe…washed up?? The jury’s still out on that. He was an All-STAR last year! Who’s got Crede’s stats at the dome? I’ll bet they are way better than Blake’s, and most posters here were pissed we didn’t sign him. We’re not talking about rolling the dice for multi-millions on a Jake Peavey or something. Crede isn’t going to break the bank. IF he comes back we’ve got a star at 3rd, if not we’ve got options. Once again this is all about balls and Bill Smith seems to be missing the left one!
Thrylos, you say perspective, then show a couple 2nd and 3rd year subs that broke out in their early to mid twenties.
ok.
Lidge’s numbers I posted was when he was 29. Last season he was 31, Ayala’s age. Want more examples under your parameters late 20s early 30s (and let’s focus on relief pitchers) here you go:
Balfour (29): 6.14 ERA 1.91 WHIP
Balfour (30): 1.54 ERA 0.89 WHIP
Eckersley (31): 4.57 ERA 1.34 WHIP
Eck (32): 3.03 ERA 1.17 WHIP (and then 6 seasons of dominance)
Dennis Reyes (28): 5.15 ERA 2.08 WHIP
Reyes (29): 0.89 ERA 0.99 WHIP
Percival (35): 5.76 ERA 1.2 WHIP
Percival (37): 1.80 ERA 0.85 WHIP
do you want more?
Settle down, and don’t let the Angry Children upset you, jon and Skips. Why, they just got dropped off from the Sock Hop, where they sat against the gym wall all alone. And now they discover that Mom is all out of Graham Crackers.
Hey Thrylos & Thrylo98 You guys seem to have the stats down. Give us some Crede #’s at the dome.
Mike C.
Cool, Since last year 3B combo had over 90 RBI…no gain there.
I love the HR lament.
White Sox hit something like 125 more HR’s than the Twins last year. How many more games did they win than the Twins in the regulation 162 games? 20-30-50? NOTE: to refresh anyones memory. BOTH teams won 88 games.
Granted the playoff game was won by a HR, yet IF Santana had pitched that game, he would have likely have given up a HR…that is after all his speciality (redux 1st game of 2006 playoffs.)
If they sign Crede, I wish him well. Maybe he adds a game in the win column, maybe not.
It’s easy to see that the arguments aren’t real convincing when the best argument is that if he can’t play, or doesn’t live u to the hype, the Twins are ONLY out $5.1 mil.
Can’t make this stuff up. 
Regards,
Crede #’s at the dome
you are not going to like them, but here they are
.219/.242/.355; 178 PAs
JBB,
If you prefer Gagne to Ayala, because he has “been there, done that”, please answer this for me.
What is the difference between “been there, done that” and “washed up”?
Livan has been there, done that.
So have Batista, Ponson and Ramon Ortiz.
Plus Gagne hasn’t been back to “there”, since the steroids were taken away.
I am tired of the people saying we had 91 RBI out of the 3rd base position. It’s BS!
Thrylos… please find the RBI’s that the Twins players had while playing 3rd base last year.
By using this logic of 91 RBI out of the 3rd basemen… we could say that the DH position is responsible for 57 homers because of the fact that Mauer and Morneau DH’d as well as Kubel, but the fact is that Morneau hit most of his at 1st, and Mauer hit his 3-4 as a catcher, but hey… we can use stats to make everything look better than it is.
Shookit,
Personally, I’d rather take the $5 mil and put it against a 4/5 year deal with Baker.
In 2008 the Twins had both a young and inexperienced team, and most posters who predicted 75ish wins, came out complaining when they played well over those expectations/predictions. I prefer to let this group play for 2-3 months to see where the real holes are, and then fix things. Granted, will the FO fix them then?
IF all the FA’s were gimme’s, they would already be signed.
Regards,
Sane,
You are right again. Gagne was a steriod kid… take the roids, and so goes the talent… look at Juan Rincon, and look at the fall from grace that all of the steroid kids took.
Beltre hit 40+ on the juice, Brady Anderson 50! Steroids gave Giambi about 100 million more than he was worth.
BC,
OK we had 12 or whatever number you want to put there.
Regards,
I don’t see how someone could support a GM that would take a chance on Mike Lamb, but not on Joe Crede. If Crede is hot for one month… he will produce more than any other 3rd baseman on this team. At 75% he is the best thing we have had since Koskie… at 100% he is the best thing since Gaetti, maybe better. Buscher at 100% is maybe Mike Pagliarulo (with the Twins and Pads not early Yankees). Brendon Harris at 3rd base… Scott Leuis with a bit more doubles power.
I don’t know how many RBI we had at the 3rd base position.
That is Thrylos’ expertise… that guy as a stat for everything.
BC,
I didn’t look by position, yet in 2008:
Harris 49 RBI
Buscher 47 RBI
Lamb 32 RBI
Total 128 RBI
Harris played multiple positions, Buscher & Lamb played most of their games at 3rd.
Regards,
BC,
You’re saying Crede is going to have 47+ RBI in a month. Not sure if even Morneau has done that.
Regards,
Dragon… if you are right I will apologize, but I can’t believe they got 91 RBI out of the 3rd base position.
Thrylos… please find the RBI’s that the Twins players had while playing 3rd base last year.
91 indeed.
*but what people do not really say is that 32 of those belonged to Mike Lamb
Now, if you want to ask what I think you want to ask (and I do not think that RBI is a meaningful statistic)
in 2008: Harris had 14 RBI as a third baseman and Buscher 45. Total = 59
2008 3B RBI:
Buscher 45
Lamb 25
Harris 14
Macri 4
Tolbert 2
Punto 1
Total 91
Regards,
thrylos98, Why do you prefer SLG % over BA and OBP? A Harris/Buscher combo should net a substancial gain in the latter two.
2008 RBI by Position:
C 96
1B 124
2B 72
3B 91
SS 62
LF 72
CF 71
RF 91
DH 94
P 3
PH 16
PH for DH 1
Regards,
that’s where that damn 59 RBI came from… Thank you. I was actually talleying RBI game by game through logs because 91 just seemed wrong.
Dragon, I was wrong.
Thrylos thank you for proving my point.
I had read 59 over and over again, and then saw 91 over and over again, and 59 seemed a better number because 3rd base was such a hole, but if the numbers add up to 91 I was wrong.
BC,
NO big deal.
It’s easy to forget:
Lamb 32
Monroe 29 with a couple of clutch HR’s
Cuddyer 36
That’s damn near 100 from 3 disasters.
Regards,
JA,
for some reason my comments are “awaiting moderation”…
but here is the reason I prefer OPS over OBP (it is the best indicator that can predict whether these Gardy Twins win or not)
http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2008/10/how-many-wins-will-changes-in-twins.html
and if this goes through, go a couple of posts up (11/6/08) to see why I think that SLG is the difference maker in the OPS number for the Twins
and if this goes through
sorry, but the answer to your question is more than what I can post in this here comment box
A 31 year old, career .257/.306/.447 3b, with a .963 career fielding percentage, coming off of two major back surguries, is seeking a garanteed contract worth 5 million plus incentives, huh. No thank you!
Sounds more like a base of 1.5 to 2 million, with maybe another million or so in incentives.
Dragon,
so:
Lamb
Monroe
Cuddaver
were disasters (I agree)
guess who of the three was christened as a started (sight unseen) by the manager of the millennium?
I didn’t think of Monroe as a disaster. His BA was terrible, but his homers and RBI were very much clutch.
But you also have to admit that the Twins and Twins fans expected a heck of a lot more out of those three than the team got.
Lamb 75+ RBI (and some homers)
Monroe 55-60 RBI (and a higher BA)
Cuddyer 90-100 RBI (and healthy)
Thrylos,
I am shocked that Crede’s numbers were so abysmal at the Metrodome. It seemed that he always killed us anytime we played them the last few years. Apparently those numbers were gathered at U.S. Cellular rather then in Minnesota. What were his numbers at Chicago against us??
The best memory I have about Monroe in a Twins uniform is that pink bat game where he went park when it really mattered.
And that was the second best memory of Everett (who also had a hr in that game). Everett’s (and Lamb’s) best memory was that suicide squeeze play (Everett on the plate, Lamb at 3B), which was above and beyond everything smallball the Twins ever did…
What were his numbers at Chicago against us?
hard to get this number out right now (12:30 AM here and my SQL skills are diminished at this point) but his overall numbers against the Twins are:
.273/.298/.481, 378 PA,
if you take in account his numbers in the dome:
.219/.242/.355; 178 PAs (from up there)
I’d say they were about (and this is a quick estimate):
.315/.335/.512
in the Cell
JA…
you choose to see the negative on Crede…
-30 homers in a season
-Silver Slugger award winner
-Post season experience
-Central Division experience
-Possible Chicago Grudge Factor
-Has major power against Righties, not just lefties
-considered an above average fielder
Add that to the fact that the Twins have admitted that they want to improve at 3rd base meaning they are not satisfied with Buscher and Harris, but are backtracking to save the player’s egoes…
Also they did waste a more money on Mike Lamb who was never a full time player with the expectation of making him one… than they would pay for taking a chance on a player with genuine potential to hit 25-30 homers and drive in 80-110 runs in this lineup
BC,
That’s what you get with expectations:
Those 3 did worse than expected, yet because of injury or poor performance, Casilla, Span, Buscher had a chance to step up.
Casilla couldn’t hit his way out of a paper bag in AAA and comes up plays very well before his injury. Span, the WORST 1st round in Twins history (so the consensus on these blogs 1 year ago) came up and surprised most of us. Buscher also drove in a bunch of runs.
That’s why I CAN NOT agree with most that last years FA signings by Bill Smith were particularly bad. NOW, if each signing HAS to produce a season which in and of itself leads to induction into the all of Fame, then his signings were an unmitigated disaster. IF, one looks at the signings for the purpose they were likely made, they achieved the result intended.
Most were a bridge, NOT a long-term solution.
Regards,
Dragon,
Free agent signings do not have to be a long term solution. At best, they are the missing pieces in a puzzle that takes a team over the edge (see: Davis, Chili and Morris, Jack). I’d take two of these type of signings this off-season…
I wondered if Luis Ayala was related to Benny or Bobby Ayala, two former major leaguers. He’s not. This is funny, and maybe a bad omen:
“The Minnesota Twins signed Bobby Ayala as a free agent, making him a non-roster invitee for the 2000 season. Unimpressed, they released him before the start of the regular season. Even years after his career was over, Bobby Ayala is still brought up to make unfavorable comparisons to struggling relief pitchers.”
Okay posters…I’m man enough to say “I stand corrected.” Crede’s #’s at the Dome…Not so good. Thanks for the stats Thrylos! I thought they would have been WAY better. Fact is I still think signing him would be a good move.
Dragon, you are also correct that puttin $5-Million towards locking up Baker or another one of our young starters would be smart. However, that has to be part of the team’s business model already for 2010 and beyond.
What I don’t get is the fact we are significantly below the payroll we had two years ago, and a new stadium with increased revenue on the way. We don’t get all the inside info, but it just seems like the Twins are never even part of the conversaion on the quality free agents. We’ll sign Kubel for 2-years at $7-mil to DH, and Punto for a few Mil, While Brian Fuentes, who could have been the set-up guy of our dreams signs a 1-year deal for $8 or 9-million. The odd man out in our 4-man outfield would be just as good as Kubel at DH as would Crede. The Twins seem content to go after the “okay” free agents and sign Gardy’s favorites, but never seem to be involved with “Quality” free agents they say they can’t afford, but actually can!
Very frustrating.
Dragon…
technically everyone is a bridge to the next player…
The Twins are looking at their best 3rd base option being 2-3 years away in Valencia
I am sorry but I don’t want to see Buscher’s glove at 3rd base for 2-3 years. That being said, Wade Boggs was a lousy fielder when he came up, and Morneau was not very good at 1st when he came up. So players can grow with practice, and reps…
There is one other factor that can’t be quantified that Crede has over the Twins current 3rd basemen.
he can make pitchers afraid… a walk to mauer, a single by Morneau… and Crede can make a pitcher think twice. I just cannot see Harris or Buscher making a pitcher second guess himself, or be afraid to make a bad pitch. Crede has a reputation and a history of hitting home runs, driving in runs, and being a clutch hitter.
shookit
Fuentes is a closer, and just like Brandon Lyon… when someone has a chance to be the closer… to be the man… they take it over being the set up guy.
He would not have come here to be the setup guy. If he succeeded at that he would stand to make 5-6 million more… if he succeeds as a closer he is guarenteed 10 million plus a season, and if he fails he can then be a setup man again for 5-6 million.
Shookit,
here is my take:
look at the 2 first moves the Twins did this off-season:
* Extend Gardy (even though the team is 2 years removed from a post season appearance and he was under contract for 2009)
* re-sign Punto at $4.25 M a year for 2 years (while would not touch Wigginton who signed at $3 M a year for 2 years)
do you see a pattern? Do you see who the root cause of the Twins’ problems is? (Hint: it is the guy who had a urinating contest with Liriano’s agent last July while he cut his nose to spite his face and had Livan lose 3 games before he conceded to bring Liriano up; the same guy who trusted Juannie messed up appearance after messed up appearance -and Rincon was paid $3.2 M last season for those who count beans)
BC.B.
Buscher will be 28 next season. He had umpteen opportunities to improve his fielding. He didn’t. Scouts described his fielding approach as a “guerrilla going after a ball”, methinks it’s more like George (the animal) Steele, but Butcher being a third baseman ain’t happening (and here comes Top Dogg…)
On that note I have to get home. Baseball has been a great distraction from life today. Thank you all. I probably won’t be back until Tuesday or Wednesday.
Sunday is my mother’s wake, and I bury her on Monday. She was a life long Twins fan, and while I grew up without a dad… she made sure I had a glove, and played from T-ball through trying out my freshman year in college before blowing out my elbow.
Her favorite player was Kirby Puckett, before that she really like Larry Hisle, and Tony Oliva, of the current guys on the team she liked Red Dog the most.
66 years is way too early. So I took a much needed break tonight from the sadness, the stress. She didn’t have a will, or any life insurance. It has taken sadness to a level of living hell.
Thank you guys for putting up with me here tonight… I tried to stay positive as much as I could… and I will continue to try come Tuesday. I just hope to God that the Twins do something to make it easier like signing Crede so I have something to be hopeful about.
Goodnight
BC Beneke
BC. B.
take care. My condolences
Ayala blew out his elbow in the “World Baseball Classic” in ‘06 and missed that entire regular season.
He totally threw his career off track by pitching for Mexico in the WBC, and the Nationals were angry at him for it.
Throw me into the camp of thinking that this is not that bad of a signing.
He is a veteran with some good years under his belt.
At the very least, he adds depth which may allow Crain/Mijares to strictly focus on bridging the 8th inning gap to Nathan.
His upside is a steady groundball pitcher who can help preserve guys like Guerrier and Crain throughout the year. Why not.
The signing is not sexy, but nice move is the only way to call it.
Uggla can’t field a ping pong ball with a bushel basket, and Crede is underrated.
I think Ayala was a better desicion than Gagne. However, using Ayala as our 8th inning guy won’t last long.
The Twins have three good young pitchers in Humber, Bonser, and that kid they got from the Yanks. They are all out of options and all semi-desirable. They must be planning to trade at least one of those guys. None of them will clear waivers and the Twins don’t usually like to let good talent walk. I’m looking for one of those three guys to be involved with at least one more deal before the start of the season.
CNN is reporting AROD tested positive for steroids in 2003? I just heard this on the radio. True?
CNNSI, it’s on the cover of CNN.com.
shazel,
Jason Jones (rule V draft choice from the Yankees) has all his options remaining, because (I am pretty sure) he has never been on a MLB roster before.
If the Twins want to send him to the minors after ST, they just have to make a deal with the Yankees. That usually means trading a low-level minor leaguer to the Yankees for rights to Jones.
If the Yankees want him back, they will pay $25K to get him.
Two trades with Seattle (must do both)
We take Washburn and his salary they get Boof or Humber.
We get Beltre and his salary, they get Delmon and pay his no-trade ransom.
The Ms get significant salary relief a young outfielder with upside and serviceable arm with potential to surprize.
We use up our salary cushion, get a leditimate offensive/defensive upgrade at a key position, move Perk to the BP and are in a legitimate position to contend in ‘09.
Our mortgage for the future is Delmon (who I like a lot, by the way), not insignificant, but not too much to give for the opportunity to live in the present for once.
You are not buying that Young will be traded? Keep an eye on the transaction wire. The Twins are not the Yankees or the Reds Sox, they can not afford to have these kind of players sit on the bench. If you think that Young was a poor listener last year, make him a platoon player this year and see what you get. Color Mr. Young gone.
jjswol,
“I guarantee that the Twins will not go into the season with 4 starting outfielders and you can paint Young gone”
I don’t guarantee what I can’t possibly know for certain, BUT:
I’d bet 3 to 1 that Delmon starts the season with the Twins.
I’d bet 100 to 1 that no MLB team would be happy with Delmon as their centerfielder.
I have seen Delmon play since he was a 15-yr-old and IMO he will become a much better listener when he starts to suffer failures doing things “his” way.
Becoming a temporary “part-time” starter will open his eyes (and ears) wide!
sane,
Did you see Dimitri Young in his youth?
IF SO, how do he and Delmon compare at at a similar age?
Regards,
Dragon,
I don’t remember seeing a “young” Dmitri Young.
Delmon, however, was a man at 15.
I have never seen a better 15,16 or 17 yr-old hitter.
Sean Burroughs was better as a 12 and 13yr-old.
I think Gardy doesn’t want DY around and he will be gone before the season starts. My guess is when Kouzmanoff is healthy and can pass a pyhsical he’ll be a Twin. Twins will use Pridie or sign a cheap 4 th outfielder fa.
[…] Minnesota Twins announced their first major acquisition of the winter adding Luis Ayala to a $1.3MM dollar deal with incentives for next year. Ayala’s stats were flawless up […]
sane,
Thanks.
I believe you have seen Hicks. How does he compare to Delmon as a hitter?
Regards,
I know Hicks very well.
He has come to our HS practices often this winter to participate in some of our drills.
As a 17-yr-old hitter, Delmon was much better.
Hicks was (and is) a developing hitter, who became serious about baseball when he was about 12.
Delmon was a developED hitter at 17 who had been drilled by his Dad since he was a little kid.
Hicks, however, is by far the better athlete, and no one can see a limit to how good he will become as a hitter and as a player.
Delmon has a plus throwing arm.
Hicks has a plus-plus-plus throwing arm.
Everything else is also advantage-Hicks.
If this Arod thing ends up being true it is pretty sad. The guy has consistently mashed HR’s his entire career. He has been perhaps the best player of all time. Why?
BC BENEKE-Sorry about your mother. As the greeks say”MAY HER MEMORY BE ETERNAL”!
From JoeC’s THURSDAY blog:
“In speaking with Twins officials this week, they seem about 90 percent certain there won’t be any notable changes to the roster before spring training.”
I guess the “90% certainty” qualification still left the door open for the Ayala signing.
I hope there is still room for more acquisitions.
Spring training evaluation of the in-house talent in order better determine our ACTUAL deficiencies is preferable to acquiring new players, THEN finding out that we don’t really need them.
But, when/if something is needed, I hope the Twins pull the trigger quickly before unnecessary games are lost.
Aaron: One has to wonder…if the A-Rod story is true, what does that mean about the OTHER years when he was mashing them?
A-Rod was supposed to be MLB’s way of forgetting Bonds. But now it looks like they’re back to square one.
Nice to see mostly positive responses to this signing. This team has some enviable depth at virtually every position, so the only questions relate to whether mediocrity at a couple/three areas will thwart the effort. My sense is that we lack the experience and/or talent to get past the first round of the playoffs as the best case, worst case being about 3rd place. A completely healthy Crede may or may not be the difference. I’m still keeping my fantasy of a last-minute Beltre move.
[…] The Minnesota Twins signed reliever Luis Ayala to a one-year deal worth $1.3 million. Ayala, 30, had a 5.71 ERA in 75.7 innings pitched last season. […]
To BC.BENEKE: My heartfelt condolences. I lost my mother decades ago & it still saddens me to this day. May God bless you both.
BC Beneke,
Please add mine to the earlier posted condolences.
The losses of my parents are still the worst times of my life, and my sympathies are with you and your family.
T:
Recall in ARod’s contract year, when he hit 15 home runs in April, on his way to 50+? Great year, minor injuries and Bonds-aversion was all that kept him from 70. Got him the big, new contract, with all that crap about 30 mill extra as he passed Ruth, Aaron, Bonds.
There is no doubt he was juiced then. I do not doubt he has been juiced at various times throughout his career. In my view, he’s a phony, as are all the fella’s who put up elite #’s in the 90’s-2000’s. The problem is, the juice has been a big help to MLB, so the response is what it is: they still need ARod, and short of committin murder, he will continue to play, in NY, because that is what the league most needs: the premier players, playing in the premier markets, doing what they do best: market the product. Too bad for them little things like federal drug laws ocassionally interrupt the process.
Good news is that I doubt any Twins hitters are on the juice
What an ugly list for the Vikes…
2009 PROJECTED FREE AGENTS: QUARTERBACK
February 7, 2009, 2:50 p.m. EST
Here’s the complete list of the upcoming free agents at the quarterback position. First, restricted. Then, unrestricted.
RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:
Gibran Hamdan, Bills.
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:
Brian St. Pierre, Cardinals.
Kurt Warner, Cardinals.
J.P. Losman, Bills.
Kyle Boller, Ravens.
Todd Bouman, Ravens.
Rex Grossman, Bears.
Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bengals.
Brooks Bollinger, Cowboys.
Patrick Ramsey, Broncos.
Dan Orlovsky, Lions.
Matt Cassel, Patriots. (Franchise tag.)
Joey Harrington, Saints.
David Carr, Giants.
Anthony Wright, Giants.
Marques Tuiasosopo, Raiders.
Charlie Batch, Steelers.
Byron Leftwich, Steelers.
Jamie Martin, 49ers.
J.T. O’Sullivan, 49ers.
Charlie Frye, Seahawks.
Jeff Garcia, Buccaneers.
Luke McCown, Buccaneers.
Kerry Collins, Titans.
Chris Simms, Titans.
Source: NFL Players Association.
what makes this front office think they can go into this new season with basically the same old club from last year that was decent but surely not good enough to advance thru the playoffs…they have money, they have had oppurtunities to do deals and they sit still…i guess i just dont get it, and i dont believe they will reproduce last years successes overall and besides that, other clubs have gone out and at least tried to improve themselves…sometimes just some common sense instead of this continual (on the cheap) approach….its getting old and starting to smell bad
BC,
Sorry to hear about your mom.
Here’s something to give you hope.
If there’s a common denominator in all religion, and science for that matter, it’s that the energy you knew as your mother did not disappear.
And given the concept of infinity it’s a mathematical certainty you will meet again.
mj1,
I get your argument. Young players almost always regress, while Old FA’s always improve.
Regards,
Hey Sane,
Which high school in Southern California are you referring too? My Son pitches for Orange Lutheran.
[…] According to Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, the Twins reached an agreement with reliever Luis Ayala today on a one-year, $1.3MM deal. He can earn another $575K in incentives. If met, he’d exceed his ‘08 salary of $1.7MM. Ayala was ranked as a Type B free agent after the season, but the Mets did not offer him arbitration. […]
BC, sorry to hear about your Mom. You have my condolences and I’ll keep you and your family in my prayers.
Jeff in So Cal,
“Which high school in Southern California are you referring too? My Son pitches for Orange Lutheran.”
I guess your son probably knows Gerrit Cole. If Cole’s arm stays intact, your son knows a future millionaire.
Let’s just say that I coach at a Long Beach area high school. I don’t want to entirely blow my cover, just in case I post something I may regret later.
BC,
I enjoy reading you along with the rest of the bloggers. So sorry about your mother. Mine passed twenty years ago this March (also a Twins fan) and I think about her every day. Godspeed!
BC,
Our condolences to you and your family.
Just remember, your mother will always be with you.
Regards,
Ayala great cheap signing he win setup job easily
Don’t look now, but Joe Crede may soon find himself short on options.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/giants-have-min.html
Giants offered Rich Aurilla a minor league deal. It would likely turn into a MLB contract, but I would wager that this could set the tone for the Crede negotiations.
T,
Also says the Giants offered a one year deal to Crede.
Well dang. If they caved and gave him the full 5 mil no questions asked then…HAH.
no worries, Garciaparra is still out there 
Someone on here said that the Giants had offered Crede a contract a few days ago and people here mocked him.
There’s an actual link now, Paul. The other guy just threw out random years and amounts. This link from SF says a one year deal, but no money amount.
A link is better proof than me or anyone just going out and saying “2 years, 10.2 million” with nothing to back it up.
Didn’t the Twins lose 1 or 2 other FA players during the weekend this offseason?
True
Now, I remember, not a FA, but DeRosa was traded on a Saturday.
Boras hype or a real offer by the Giants?
you know Boras is calling Mr. Smith with this ‘offer’
Med,
That is ok with me, s—- or get of the pot. That seems to be an issue, alot of opinions and no balls.
so, what if the offer was for $1 M + incentives? No terms were mentioned and by the fact that there was not a signing, I would assume that it was a low ball offer.
Thry
whether it was a lowball offer or not, Boras will call around and try and get more out of any team that hinted at interest.
Gosh, if we roll over for Crede, maybe Boras will deliver Manny on a silver platter. Boras has much bigger issues than Crede right now.
B.C. BENEKE:
Hopefully you check in to read your messages. Many parallels between your mother and mine, who passed on a few weeks ago. Also a single mother (widowed) who raised her kids alone. My parents loved baseball and had nine kids. When they passed the designated hitter rule though, she went into hiding. Not really, just trying to be upbeat. I’m not nearly as eloquent as you on the blogs, so my sincere sympathy and return soon with your comments.
“the fact that there was not a signing, I would assume that it was a low ball offer.”
Whatever the offer, high or low, there would be no IMMEDIATE signing, because Boras would shop it around.
msm,
Sorry.
I must have overlooked your 9:27 PM post.
Either that, or I have nothing original to say.
Mmmm…Are we approaching “book it” status here?
I guess the Giants didn’t need to monitor him for the fourth straight week.
BC,
I have four brothers, but I love baseball because of my Mom. The first colored tv show we watched was the Twins, she too have passed.
My condolences.
Let’s play pick’em…Choose one excuse Bill Smith will produce when Crede signs with the Giants:
A) Gee golly. We got 91 RBIs out of our 3b position last year, so we don’t view that position as a weakness for us.
B) Gee golly. We just tried so gosh darn hard but just didn’t view Joe Crede as the right fit for our club.
C) Gee golly. We just weren’t ready to sign Crede because of our “process” in determining whether or not he was worth giving a 1-year deal to. We wish him the best of luck with the Giants.
D) All of the above.
I’ll go with “D.”
E) Too risky at this time, without sufficient evidence of the success of Crede’s sugery.
Not to mention his SURGERY.
High school typing class did not do the job.
Next Twins FA 3B target:
Tomohiro Nioka, 33-yr-old SS of the Yomiuri Giants.
Don’t book it.
Too risky at this time, without sufficient evidence of the success of Crede’s sugery.
I keep seeing versions of this sentiment.
What risk is there to signing Crede?
The only risk is the Pohlads are $5M closer to what they’ve promised to spend on payroll.
jkucenic,
how about this excuse:
the smorgasbord last night was exquisite and they had those Swedish meatballs with the splendid white sauce and all the lutefisk and lefse you can eat and them rutabagas, Joe Crede who?
Pardon me for my apparent lack of moderation.
And I don’t even drink.
I have read all the Giant fans bi–hing about the crede rumor on thier websight. Maybe we see crede more because of the division, or the fact we as fans are so desperate for power.I am too but Orlando Hudson would be my desperation over crede.I just think crede is getting over hyped a bit. The national public does not view him as high as most of the people on this log do.Its not like we would be world series favorites with the signing. Im done being desperate I could live with not having him at third.
lots of fun chats although
Hudson is over-rated too. Most teams apparently agree with me.
Typical Twins signing. They do have a relativily good history with these kind of signings. Low risk too, so I like it.
As for the Vikes, they should go after Farve, or better yet, get Matt Cassel. Best quarterback available.
Am now, and always will pull for Barry Bonds. If Gay-Rod passes him, he’ll be the new homerun king. I’ll accept that. But I’ll never forgive him for selling out (Yankees). I hope he never passes him. (But it seems inevitible that he will). At least I can hope that he never wins a ring- though there’s still a lot of time for that to happen too.
Sorry. Don’t like the Yankees…at all. This feeling was greatly intensified after going to see the Twins at Yankee Stadium.
What risk is there to signing Crede?
You spend 5 million on a guy who goes down for the season in the first month?
I have read all the Giant fans bi–hing about the crede rumor on thier websight.
It is kinda funny. A number of Twins fans are b—ching about not getting Crede, and Giants fans are b—ching about getting Crede.
Sane,
Yes of course my Son knows Gerrit Cole. He told me that he was telling everyone that he was definitely attending UCLA no matter where he was drafted. Orange Lutheran was ranked in the top 10 in the U.S. much of last year and we actually had three players drafted last year. Our juniors this year are the strength of the team so our ranking will not be nearly as high.
Two things give me hope for a Crede signing: 1) Jim Pohlad’s comments, and 2) the lack of any mention of terms in the Giant’s “offer”, which suggests they low-balled Boras. I still give it 50/50. But, if it doesn’t happen it will be because of either the Twin’s assessment regarding the injury risk, or Boras’ unwillingness to take a reasonable offer from the Twins. Many will conclude that Smith gave fans “an excuse”, not a reason, for why a signing didn’t happen. They will refuse to acknowledge that, if Smith and his staff, after pouring over all kinds of medical information and consulting their own medical experts, believe he’s damaged goods, they cannot come out and say that in anything but the mildest of terms for fear of hurting Crede’s chances with others. So, if Smith offers Crede a reasonable amount, which many of us who hope he signs think should be less than $5M guaranteed, but the Giants outbid them, Smith will be an idiot for not overpaying him. I know some of you will think I’m a naive golly gee Kool-Aide afficionado. You’ll accuse me of being one of those who, like the Twins, is apathetic about getting to the WS. That’s such a curious conclusion to reach, though, isn’t it? What would motivate the Twins to show an interest in Crede disingenuously? Why would they want to fail to sign him for illegitimate reasons? They will sign him if they think the injury risk is manageable and the price is right, period.
Yeah, I’m with bop on this one. There’s always somebody writing up some post or another that the FO does nothing but lie time and time again.
But then, what’s the point? Because obviously few people actually “fall” for it if that’s the case.
Whatever the case, it looks like Crede becoming a Twin (or anything for that matter) is getting less and less likely with JoeC’s latest report.
$7 mil? For a guy coming off major back surgery? Good luck with that!
[…] Last season’s closer-by-circumstance will be fighting for the set-up job in Minnesota, after agreeing to a $1.3 million deal with the Twins. He could be OK in that role for the Twins. Because of how everything went down at […]
