Crede’s asking price closer to $7 million
Posted on February 8th, 2009 – 11:42 AMBy Joe Christensen
Joe Crede is seeking a base salary of closer to $7 million than $5 million, which could decrease the likelihood that the free agent third baseman lands with the Twins, the Star Tribune has learned.
Crede made $5.1 million last season with the White Sox, and Twins officials have bristled at committing even $5 million to a player who was limited to 47 games and 97 games the past two seasons because of back injuries.
Yet the Twins are well under budget. After letting their payroll reach $74 million in 2007, their Opening Day, 25-man roster projection is at $60.15 million. That includes the $1.3 million they have agreed to pay righthanded reliever Luis Ayala, pending a physical.
Crede, 30, was an All-Star last season with the White Sox, batting .252 with 16 home runs and 59 RBI over the first half. The back injury limited him to one home run in 39 plate appearances after the All-Star break.
A first-time free agent, Crede is willing to settle for a one-year deal, but he’s not looking for a discounted base salary, and he’ll want incentives that will pay him with other elite third baseman if he stays on the field. Adrian Beltre will make $12 million this year, and Eric Chavez will make $11 million. Those could be reference points.
But Crede has proven to be an elite player — a dangerous righthanded hitter who plays top-notch defense — when he’s on the field. So most teams would welcome the incentive payments.
If $7 million guaranteed sounds steep for the Twins, consider that they offered Casey Blake a two-year, $14 million contract with an option for 2011 before he accepted his three-year, $17.5 million deal with the Dodgers.
One of Blake’s best attributes is his durability; he has averaged 598 plate appearances over the past six seasons. But he also is nearly five years older than Crede, who insists he has overcome his back issues.
Crede had a herniated disk in 2007, and the corrective surgery left him with a nerve impingement last season. He has since had minor surgery to remove that impingement, and agent Scott Boras said Crede will be as ready as any player when spring training begins.
The Twins want to continue monitoring Crede’s workouts, but there are indications that Boras is deeper into negotiations with other teams. A San Francisco television station has reported that Crede has a one-year offer from the Giants. No word yet on whether the Twins have made an official offer, but they have had continuing discussions with Boras.
249 Responses to "Crede’s asking price closer to $7 million"
Good luck Scott.
Wasn’t Wiggindton looking for the same amount?
The market has changed.
Wiggington
“Continuing to monitor progress” sounds like a euphimism for “passing.”
Crede has the potential to be among the elite third basemen, but he isn’t young and has not performed as an elite third baseman for an extended period of time of time. Throwing out the Beltre and Chavez numbers are not relevant to the current market and are playing right into Boras’ hands.
$5-$7miilion for Crede would still be legitimate, though.
JimCrikket, I’d say that the Twins are no longer bidding against themselves, wouldn’t you?
Time to make a move. Not acting is the same as making a decision. Passing on Crede would be a bad decision, in my opinion.
HE GONE!!!!!!
I would doubt that the Twins would offer him close to a 7 million guarantee. I also would be surprised if the Giants came close to that in there one year offer. Prices have dropped considerably recently (Burrell 8 million and Dunn-Abreu unemployed) that you would have to wonder who would offer a guy that kind of money. Especially since in the last two years he has played only about 140 games.
Not worth 5 let alone 7. The guy is damaged goods. Good luck Borass, I mean Boras.
If Crede gets anything close to 7 million, he’d better give Boras a larger than normal cut. In this down market, with very few suitors chasing him, Crede should be looking at taking a pay cut, not getting a raise.
i wouldn’t give him 7 million in this market, so i wouldn’t blame the twins for passing. i mean, how much better is he than a harris/buscher combo who will be making,what 700K combined?
3 million guaranteed with incentives for games played and home runs that could increase it to 7 million seems more reasonable.
I will never (maybe) complain about the Twins spending money but that seems to be a high number for someone with his injury history.
I’m still trying to figure out the Wiggy non deal, the guy could put up Crede #’s, play a few games at 1b, dh and even a game or so in the of, all for 3m seems really cheap.
I still think DY will be going to the Padres when Kouzmanoff can pass a physical. Guys Gardy doesn’t like don’t stay long, Bartlett, Garza, JC, Minky ……
Good luck to you, Joe Crede. An incentive-laden contract with something just under $5M guaranteed is perhaps reasonable, still quite risky for a team, and a GREAT deal for you. $7M? Go fish. Find another team that take all your risk off your hands.
Overpriced at 7, given the market and given the recent injury history and possibility of recurrence.
Twins do need a third baseman though. Could well be the difference in making the playoffs and meeting with some success therein.
Any indication the Twins would take another look at Adrian Beltre? They need cash and pitching don’t they? OR a cheap outfielder? All good trading attributes for the TWins. The Sox left him go because of health reasons. The Twins should learn from their mistakes, like taking on a shortstop and third baseman that the Astros let go. Crede is damaged goods. I would think getting what you pay for (Beltre)is beter than taking a flier on a guy (Crede)that played half a season would make sense. Funny both guys are under Boras.
If Rich Arillia takes the minor league offer the Giants offered him, Crede might not have many options left. Saying he wants 7 mil is like saying Manny wants 3 years. I have a hard time seeing it happen.
RyanW, the problem is that if Crede just keeps asking for 7 mil, it won’t matter if the team’s don’t want to pay it.
I would’ve accepted getting 5 mil (provided it was 5 mil after incentives), but 7 mil? Yeah…go ahead and sod right off.
T, I’m being more generous with the team’s budget than you are, but I have to say, it really pisses me off to read about these contract demands. What a bunch of pampered jerks.
What’s the probability of Crede playing 100 games in ‘09? Extremely low. What’s the probability that he’ll deliver substantially better numbers than the combination of the Harris/Buscher to justify spending over $5M more for Crede, regardless of the ostensible defensive improvement? Extremely low. What’s the probability that the Twinks will “take the plung” on damaged goods and spend $7M in guaranteed money? Zero. Which is fine with me! I’d rather see payroll spent on locking up the Fab Five starters and Mauer.
Brendan Harris will be the Twins starting third baseman in 2009.
T
What’s the difference between $5 and $7 million? It’s not your 2 mil.
Boras is delusional and believes his own PR machine. Crede is as likely to get 7 million as Manny is to get 4 years. It ain’t going to happen.
I’d rather see what Beltre could be had for than sign Crede.
When are the Twins going to talk extension with Mauer? Is there going to be another Johan Santana scenario coming next offseason?
The fans would really hate on me if I owned the team. I’d trade every damn player at their peak unless they agreed to an under-market salary. Continuously rebuild with prospects. One new pitcher in the rotation each year from AAA. One new INF, one new OF, one new RP, at least, every year, ditching salary like it was an infectious disease. However, I would also cut ticket prices.
Wait a sec…he has an injury-plagued year, hasn’t been healthy for two years, the economy takes a dive and consequently teams aren’t spending as much money, he was overpaid last year at 5 mil…AND HE WANTS A SALARY RAISE??? Don’t sign this guy. Even if his price drops. The Twins can’t have players in their clubhouse who are this in to themselves.
If I were an owner of a team I would boycott any player represented by Boras. Boras is the infection!
I agree with RyanW I want to be a billionaire, alleviate world hunger, and live with Keeley Hazel but that doesn’t mean those events are likely to occur. I’d take Beltre if given a choice at this time as well. But if the Twins sign Crede it should be for 1 or 2 million guaranteed plus 4 to 6 million in incentives make him flippin’ earn it! At this point in time it is going take something a bit more substantial than Mr. BS Boras’ comments about how good Mr. Crede’s back is doing! I don’t know if I despise Boras or Bonds the most- but suffice it to same I hold neither in high esteem! At this point it is clear Mr. Crede should be looking for an opportunity to prove what he can do and not just for someone to have the honor to pay him 7 million to gamble on his recovery!
That’s okay, he’s all yours, Sabean.
Crede wouldn’t work here - his back will disintegrate as soon as he steps on artificial turf!
The Giants are also the team that gave Zito one if the top 5 worst contracts in MLB history. I wouldn’t be shocked if they gave him 6-7 mil.
They (the Giants) seem to have no real plan, they have some good young players but block them with old, overpriced vets. I don’t get them, so I wouldn’t be surprised by anything they do.
birdofprey,
you just described the Marlins approach.
Well if he is so confident he is over his back problems he shouldn’t have any problem with a 3 million dollar deal that goes up to 7-9 million based on how healthy he is. But I think we all know there is no way he signs that deal.
…and if I owned the team, if a player failed to run out a grounder, he’s on the market the next day. If a player even looks like he doesn’t care, he’s gone the next day. I’m so sick of these fools.
I don’t even have high blood pressure, but I’m gonna go take my high blood pressure meds now. Geez….
Do the deal. When healthy, Crede is an elite third baseman in this league. Stop complaining about his demands. If you were in his situation, you would be trying to get the maximum amount of money you could get too. He probably won’t get a $7 million base salary anyway. The bottom line is that Crede is a perfect fit for the Twins: a solid right handed power bat and a guy who also plays terrific defense at third base. With him, the Twins are probably the favorites to win the division. Without him, who knows. Buscher and Harris don’t even compare to Joe Crede. Do the deal Mr. Smith.
Good day all:
I said it before and say it again: There is zero chance the Twins will sign Joe Crede. Love to see it, but it will never happen.
Good column from Reusse today. Give ‘em hell Pat!
If we had any proof at ALL that the second surgery was going to work when the first one didn’t, MAYBE I would consider 7 mil… but we don’t. I would have considered his pay for last year a definite possibility with GENEROUS incentives if it did actually turn out that he could PLAY more games than he did last year.
But if this is truly what he’s asking for, I’m extremely glad that the Twins FO seems to be waiting to see if he can SHOW that he’s really better than he was the first time he went through this. If we lose him to another team, it’s simply because that team is willing to take bigger risks than we are. I’m ok with that.
Marshall, I’ll stop complaining about Crede’s demands if you stop complaining when the Twins are smart enough to tell him to go fish. He can go sit in the rehab pool with Zito.
Crede doesn’t even deserve 5 million.
What we all have to keep in mind is that just because Boras is looking for a 1 yr/$7 million deal, it means nothing unless a real market develops for the player. Look at what Boras is asking for with Manny Ramirez! No market has developed for Manny other than the two offers they’ve rejected from the Dodgers (make that 3 offers if you include Manny’s decline of arbitration). It does appear that two or three teams are interested in Crede. That could be the reason Boras is upping the asking price. Nevertheless, if the two or three teams won’t go over 5 or 6, then that’s the number Crede will get.
Manny and Crede are hopefully still looking for work in July. It would be the best PR baseball could get.
JimCrikket, I’d say that the Twins are no longer bidding against themselves, wouldn’t you?
I’m not JiMCrikket, but I’d say the Twins are bidding against no one, because no one is who will give Crede $7M in base salary. Boras has Crede living in fantasy land.
Chris, if Crede approved upping the price, he’s off my list, period. I know all I need to know about him.
Maybe this is the Twins PR dept leaking a 7 mil request so that when we sign him for 5 mil it looks like a deal…
I am sure Scott Boras would be fine with something like that…
Seems to me Boras isn’t able to get his $5M asking price, so in order to get it, raise the stakes and someone meets you in the middle.
I have never comprehended giving a guy a raise after a down year (see Matt Gurrier’s 50% raise) and now Boras, er Crede wants $7M? I’m not a big fan of Mr. No, but I go tell Boras to go jump in one of our numerous lakes!
As for the extra $2 not being “our” money, as someone said… actually, it is. It comes in the form of higher ticket prices, concessions (at the new ballpark) etc. So in essence, we ARE paying for it.
Mark
if the Twins paid him 7 instead of 5, our payroll would still be less that it was last year and the year before. Tickets prices won’t increase if we give Crede 7 instead of 5. The fans don’t get the 2 mil back. It’s not our money.
Who cares if we overpay him? Throw your principles down the drain, it’s business.
Joe, I love your blog but you need to cite a source here. Who told you that Crede’s price just jumped? Boras? Billy Smith? Brian Sabean? Just saying “the Star Tribune has learned” is questionable at best.
I’m sure Crede would take 9 million if someone offered it to him - but they won’t.
I think more people are growing to despise Scott Boras than any man in baseball. A title that for years used to belong to Donald Fehr of the players union.
Parting shot — Crede rhymes with greedy.
But I’d still like to see him with the Twins and watch him burn the White Sox.
Another year with lame A-$-$ players at third. We will finish a min of 14 games out this year. What a joke…
What about a dual incentive structure deal. I don’t know if there is a chance in hell it can or would happen but lets offer him 7M and if he gets hurt he only gets 5M but if he plays over say 145 games, 30+ HRs, top 5 in gold glove he gets 9M + next year locked in at 9M + more incentives.
Or his choice on trying FA again.
Elston, I don’t know if you have peeked at our arbitration eligible players next year, but our payroll is about to explode… not to mention the signing of that Mauer guy that needs to happen…
Stay away!
Crede is not even worth $5 million, let alone $7 million. Actually, I don’t think he’s worth $15 an hour! His highest career OBP was .323, and most of the time it was around .300. True, Crede can hit a home run every once in a while, but he has no speed and he cannot take a walk.
The Twins do not need this guy at all. If they sign him, he will be another Tony Batista/ Jeff Cirillo/ Mike Lamb style third baseman who will just take up space on the roster before inevitably being released. Maybe Terry Ryan likes this sort of pattern, but I think Bill Smith will be smart enough to avoid it.
who cares, give him $7m. the payroll is only $60m. in today’s baseball world that minor league. if he doesn’t work out its only one year at $67m, if he does maybe its playoff time. you guys are all starting to sound like smith. CHEAP
Paul, are you suggesting that Crede is worth 14 wins? If not, then what difference would signing him make?
yes, the payroll will increase a lot in the next two years, but this would only be a one year deal.
It’s not a long-bog-down type signing.
I’m just sayin there isn’t a huge difference between 5mil and 7mil
Billy boy you’re doing a great job fooling the Twins sheep that we are going to add players after I screwed them with the new stadium deal. Keep that payroll down and you will get tons of bonus money for Christmas. Gotta run. The devil is poking me in the A-$-$ again with the pitchfork….
Fran–I’m just saying that JimCrikket persuasively argued the Twins could wait, since the Giants were likely waiting to see how the Manny situation resolved itself. That doesn’t seem right, now, because the Giants have made an (unknown) offer for Crede. If the Twins continue to play coy, Crede will just sign with the Giants, no?
I don’t know how these negotiations work, but it seems like the Twins are just stalling to avoid spending money on Crede rather than being serious, yet at the same time having a reasonable face saving excuse. Joe seems to be abetting this.
I’m turning to the darkside, and becoming more cynical about the Twins FO motives.
People are really hurting out here! Crede brought home $5M last year. Boras never has to consider his “budget” when he decides what luxurious delicacy to stuff into his mouth next. Manny, the worthless turd, has the audacity to threaten retirement. How are people supposed to feel when Manny says he just can’t fathom working for less than $25M per? They probably play a tape of that knucklehead at the Al Qaeda training camps in South Waziristan. What a bunch of insensitive jackasses…say no Billy.
“Joe seems to be abetting this”
There’s a shocker. He also closed out a blog last week by saying, “one key point to consider, “what chance does a guy like Crede have of staying healthy playing on artificial turf?”
I will raise hotdog prices from $6 to $8 and then maybe I will consider Crede…
I’m a White Sox fan and a Joe Crede fan , but the bottom line is he is coming surgery. He needs to prove himself again. How long do you think he’ll last on the Dome carpet ?? Hope the Twins have a backup plan for when he goes down. Don’t you wonder why its You and the Giants bidding for him ???
[…] Around the Majors – […]
Tomohiro Nioka
Besides, there is a chance we will be looking to sign a FA 3B next season- agreeing to reach for Crede may push the the 3B market beyond our reach. If we refuse to pay more than $3 plus incentives he may not get much more than that in SF either. But jumping at him with 7 mil means that even in this market the 3B market is still expanding. If he makes a raise this year after playing not even playing half of the games the past two years, then why shouldn’t Beltre get 15+ mil next season?
Thank you to all my employees here on this site keeping my spin of helping the team alive. Look for a 10 cent raise later this year.
Does that mean that “The Crede and Cruddy Show” has been cancelled?
Give my son a chance. He’s on the A-rod/Bonds supplemental diet. don’t worry, his back will be better than it ever has. Please give him the money. How can he feed his family with only $5 million?
“there is a chance we will be looking to sign a FA 3B next season”
ha, good one.
RyanW says:
February 8th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Elston, I don’t know if you have peeked at our arbitration eligible players next year, but our payroll is about to explode…
Ryan: The Twins’ payroll will never explode. I agree with you to a point…lots of arb eligbile guys coming up. More payroll on the horizon. But we all must admit that some of those arb eligible fella’s will find their way to the trading block…for example, I sure would not expect to see both Baker and Liriano on this team in July 2010. One will stay, one will go. Nathan has 2 yrs left on his contract, and then he will be gone. It’s the Twins’ way. So, I agree with you the payroll will expand, but it will certainly not explode, as they will cut as needed to maintain their margins.
Boras has a long history of causing headaches for the Twins. Remember Tim Belcher in the 80s and Travis Lee in the 90s. Unfortunately, (and correct me if I’m wrong) isn’t Boras the agent for Carlos Gomez? As soon as Gomez is able, expect him to go-go elsewhere.
Signing Crede would make BS a household name…
like “toilet”.
/talking opportunity costs.
Phillip-
Considering we have been looking to sign a FA 3B every off season since Koskie left, yes I would guess that we will be.
right, but it won’t be beltre or anyone significant.
To say that we shouldn’t sign one this year because it will hinder our search next year, is sorta silly.
Who cares. We don’t need him. Keep the guys we got and go with it. I’m sick of over paying for some over the hill player. I bet we could sign Bonds for 3 million a year and he would be a much better DH than what we got too. Don’t make a move to just do it.
Be hard for Bonds to play from jail.
“Going with the guys we got” means Buscher at 3B for 80% of our games.
Noooooo thank you.
I don’t think Crede will hit $7MM. My guess is the Giants offered about $3-$4MM, and so Boras and Crede came out saying they want $7MM to get the Twins to offer up the $5MM Crede and Boras initially wanted.
Everything going on with Crede makes the Wigginton non-signing that much more curious.
Same age. Has comparable right-handed pop. Relatively durable and more versatile. Seems like a good clubhouse guy. Cheaper. 2-year deal.
Not as good defensively, but better than Buscher.
Um, yeah. Why didn’t they sign Wigginton again?
Fran–I’m just saying that JimCrikket persuasively argued the Twins could wait, since the Giants were likely waiting to see how the Manny situation resolved itself. That doesn’t seem right, now, because the Giants have made an (unknown) offer for Crede. If the Twins continue to play coy, Crede will just sign with the Giants, no?
AM–the source who reported the Giants alleged offer is a TV foof in SF. Might be an accurate report, might be just another ploy in the negotiations.
Anyway, even if it’s true, if it met Crede’s demands, he probably would have signed it by now, no? That tells me the Twins are still in the game and can still be coy, if they want to.
ray,
I am only suggesting that Twins payroll dollars are scarce. Overpaying for players is not something we should do if we want to stay competitive.
does the payroll saved for ‘09 rollover to ‘10 and ‘11?
Phil-
I am not saying we shouldn’t sign Crede- I actually like the guy- I am saying we shouldn’t play twice market value. Staying out of bad deals (minus Joe Mays) is how the Twins have been competitive for nearly a decade.
I would love to sign Crede, but anything more than 4 + incentives is absurd for a guy that cant (or according to some Sox fans- wont) stay on the field for more than a half season.
“Going with the guys we got” means Buscher at 3B for 80% of our games”
Only if you or Gardy are managing.
For a manager with a clue, it would be 90% Harris.
I am not really sure Wiggy is better defensively than Buscher. There is a reason the O’s signed him to play first base.
You don’t get the girl year after year for second place, clowns… Competitive? Who cares… either try to win the whole thing or stay home…
you’re probably right, I guess I’m just getting sick of losing out to dumb organizations like the Giants, especially when we have payroll room.
I’m still waiting for that $20mil extra revenue from Target Field to be put onto the payroll.
A pylon with two tree branches attached with a glove glued to one of them is better defensively than Buscher.
That pylon would definitely be more accurate throwing the ball.
Sid,
If I were managing, Buscher’s role would essentially be reduced to waterboy. 
And Ryan,
Joe Mays is the only bad deal you can list off from the past few seasons? Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson, Mike Lamb, etc.
I know Mays’ deal cost us the most money, but I wouldn’t say that “staying out of bad dea;s” is something the Twins have done particularly well this decade, unfortunately…
Well I shouldn’t be so quick to say the Giants wont pay 7 mil… Zito and Rowland’s deals say that they will reach if given the opportunity.
Don’t forget the bad deal we gave Rondell White that blew up in our face. And then we re-signed him for another season.
Buscher should not be the standard against which a 3B upgrade is measured.
If he plays 3B like he did last year, he will be out of the picture.
Any possible upgrade should be compared to Harris/Tolbert.
If Buscher doesn’t measure up to that, AMF!!!!!
“But Crede has proven to be an ELITE player — a DANGEROUS RIGHTHANDED HITTER who plays TOP_NOTCH DEFENSE — when he’s on the field. So MOST TEAMS would welcome the incentive payments.
If $7 million guaranteed sounds steep for the Twins, consider that they offered Casey Blake a two-year, $14 million contract with an option for 2011 before he accepted his three-year, $17.5 million deal with the Dodgers.”
What are you waiting for? This is THE guy that will get the Twins to a World Series title!
Why would some “tv foof” make up an offer? I think it is highly likely the Giants have made a lowish offer. And clearly Boras is working as many angles as possible to get the Twins to make an offer.
Now maybe that puts Twins in a position to remain coy. To me though, all signs are looking towards the Twins playing this “feigning interest to look active” rather than “coy.”. The difference is whether they really want him.
AM,
“The difference is whether they really want him.”
Jim Pohlad really wants him and said so.
The “real” difference is:
If the FO thinks he is worth the asking price.
subliminal message
Tomohiro Nioka
subliminal message
“Still waiting” for payroll revenue from a new stadium…that stands half built. That’s my example of the economic horse sense present in these United States these days. They can charge it, right?
Offer him $8 million with 2 million guaranteed and the rest base on playing at least 130 games.
Blake got a good deal- but he is durable, a word that will never be used to describe Joe Crede.
actually, the season ticket totals for the past two seasons are relatively huge, and it’s all for people getting in line for the new stadium. They are seeing revenue from a half built stadium.
For those who continue to rip Buscher, remember he had 47 RBI’s in only 218 AB’s last year. He would never play a full-season, but if you prorate his AB’s to 600, he’d end up with 130 RBI’s. Do the math.
He doesn’t have the power we’d like, but we could certainly do worse.
Mark
Twins need to get someone good not the wasted signings like Livan, Lamb, Everett, Monroe etc., Right? Well if these guys were truly big flops why do we need to get anyone at all? Were they so bad that they cost us 2 games a piece? In other words, if we had stayed pat last year and just promoted from within, we would would have won the division by 8 games. With a team this young why would you want to tamper with that Add in that if we had Mijares for the full year or Neshek we maybe have 100 wins.
I think all of you saying Crede’s lack of play does not deserve a raise have a point. But doesnt Buscher’s play deserve a chance. Say what you will, him and Harris were a net plus. For the number of at bats he had Buscher was more productive than Morneau in terms of RBI. Why do you want to pay all these other guys for the great years they had with another team but demote the guy we got who did the job.
Yes his defense was poor but give him credit for having a good year at the plate. .316 against righties and 47 RBI with 64 hits is pretty damn good.
Vegas odds against the Twins winning it all are 20-1 against. Opening odds were 16-1 against but odds are affected by larger Cities betting heavily on their own team. Odds against 1987 and 1991 teams were over 100-1. Just saying.
Crede would have major problems playing on turf in the dome.
[…] Joe Christensen’s news that Joe Crede is actually looking for at least $7 million would make it more and more unlikely […]
For some reason I keep thinking about Tomohiro Nioka. I don’t know who he is, but I keep thinking about him.
Ticket sales were up last year and the year before more because the squad was a winner than the over promise of the new stadium. Sure, the stadium helps, but without the winning…
Money not ventured on questionable expenditures (like Crede) going into this season can be available at this time next year, for talent going into the new digs. I’ve no idea who may be available at that time, but I bet the team’s brain trust knows.
Patience.
“For some reason I keep thinking about Tomohiro Nioka. I don’t know who he is, but I keep thinking about him.”
Yeah.
Tomohiro Nioka
Me too.
Tomohiro Nioka
I have no idea where that is coming from.
[…] Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports Joe Crede is asking for $7MM, rather than the previously reported $5MM. Christensen reports the $7MM figure makes it less likely Crede will land with the Twins who are reluctant to commit even $5MM to a player who was limited to 97 games in 2008 and 47 in 2007. However, as it stands the Twins opening day payroll will be $60.15MM, down from $74MM last year. It’s safe to assume Crede’s agents know that. […]
With Punto getting $4m, Crede is probably worth $7m. (worth based on the current market, not onthe value of theri contributions.)
Keep Buscher/Harris for 3B platoon. Wait and see how Valencia/Hughes pan out (I know Sane doesnt think they’re reasonable solutions given their defense but still, at least hughes has outperformed expectations and maybe he’s a late bloomer).
Save the $5-7 million and give it to Pedro as our 5th starter and dont overuse him.
Move Perkins to the bullpen.
Des,
One thing you forget. According to these blogs, Twins players will ALWAYS regress. Any FA or the 29 other reams in MLB will ALWAYS improve, usually dramatically.
Buscher, had 10 errors at 3B last year, I’m guessing at least 50% were throwing. While I do remember Knoblauch’s throwing issues, I would think that part of the throwing issues might be correctable.
BUT, I’m visualizing Tomohiro Nioka…
Regards,
danimals,
IMO Valencia will be fine defensively at 3B.
Hughes will have to improve dramatically to become adequate at 3B.
If not, he will become a LF-2B.
If all the minor and major league coaching to this point has not helped Buscher correct his atrocious defense, it’s most likely not correctable.
It’s not like he’s a spring chicken who’s just been introduced to the position.
A famous yogi once said, “An inability to bend over limits your prosperity at the five position and whenever you are imprisoned.”
“A famous yogi once said, “An inability to bend over limits your prosperity at the five position and whenever you are imprisoned.””
Yogi Berra makes more sense than that.
Yogi Bear?
Sign Joe Crede!! Would you rather have Crede, Mike Cuddyer, Brian Busher, or Adam Everett? I would take Crede in heart beat, even at $7 million. It’s a no brainer. The Twins HAVE to improve at third base, it’s a must.
sconway,
Are those my only choices?
Sane, thanks for the correction. THen there’s hope for looking at Valencia by midseason hopefully.
Dragon, also to support your point regarding Crede, Thyrlos ran the numbers for Crede at the Dome … surprisingly not very good…
If the best Pedro can bait out there are the Pirates, i say we can get him!
Hi Sane,
Yes my Son is friends with Gerrit Cole. He knew that he was always going to attend UCLA too unless he was blown away by a huge bonus he could not say no to. Actually Lutheran High had 3 kids drafted last year as well. I got to see Aaron Hicks play once last year while he was pitching and there were a lot of people that were comparing his fastball with Coles.
Alright Sane who is this Japenese player you are talkin about. You have peeked my interest.
Jeff,
IMO, Cole had more mph on his fastball, but Hicks’ slider was unhittable, and I am not just speaking about HS hitters.
Tomohiro Nioka was the perenial Japanese all-star shortstop who has just become eligible to be a MLB FA.
He is 31, and has lost the range to play SS in MLB, but has played some 3B at a high level.
Sane,
From all that I understand is that Cole was a couple MPH faster then Hicks and there was one time last year that a couple of scouts had him at 99 MPH. I also understand that Cole had a little better control then Hicks. The knock on Cole was his “mound presence” like getting on teamates and umpires at times. Look for Lutheran High to have another great team in two years as we are loaded with great juniors.
FA meaning no big buy-out to his japanese team?
Jeff,
I saw Gerrit Cole have some major anger management issues in one of the games I saw.
And IMO, the umpiring was not THAT bad.
Sane,
I was probably at that game I imagine. That is one reason why he wasn’t taken until something like the 26th pick when experts had him at top 10. Scott Boras was going to be his agent so that is another reason. His parents wanted him to attend UCLA to possibly mature a little. Lutheran already has two kids that are juniors that are headed to Irvine (Thurman) and USC (Wheatley) so watch for there names in upcoming season.
Jeff,
Wasn’t Wheatley the OLU LH QB in football?
Sane, Bobby Wheatley is our quarterback and the kid has a 4.2 GPA to boot. Left handed and throws a fastball in the low to mid 80’s with great control. USC already wants him and he wants to play two sports there so we shall see how that goes. My Son is Cody Thompson who is also a junior who now throws in the 85-87 MPH range. He is not the hardest throwing junior on the team as Andrew Thurman now throws 90-91 MPH and he looks like is headed to Irvine.
Sane,
Todd Blyleven is my Son’s pitching coach at his place in Huntington Beach Blyleven’s Dugout as I am sure you know of it.
kirbyelway,
“FA meaning no big buy-out to his japanese team?”
That’s how I understand it.
Jeff,
Yes, I know of Blyleven’s Dugout.
I know Bert says that it is “at the major league level!”
Sane, My Son loves Todd and would go through a brick wall for that guy. I am very impressed with him. As you can imagine we talk alot of Twins baseball as we are the only Twins fans that are students of his!! Bert is supposed to be coming out soon and Todd wants my Son to throw for him so he is obviously excited about that.
Jeff,
IM humble opinion, Wheatley should concentrate on baseball at USC.
He just doesn’t look like a USC QB, especially compared to Matt Barkley.
I’m sure that my little opinion would have no effect on Wheatley’s decision, even if he actually read it.
What do you think it would take to get Beltre in a trade?
Sane,
I am sure there are many that share your opinion about that. We also have another Lutheran High alum Aaron Corp that will be trying to be the starting quarterback for SC this fall!
Come on. Crede has not proven to be an elite player. His batting avg is horrible for an “elite” player. He has pop in his bat, thats it. Rob Deer with less strikeouts. He is supposedly a platinum gloved 3b too, but for some reason when I watch White Sox games, he isn’t impressive at all. The guy is an average player with a little pop. I’m not saying don’t sign him…but if he want a 2 million dollar base raise for playing half a season last year and a quarter the year before..look the other way. Why should this clown be paid like TRULY ELITE 3b when he HASN’T PROVEN ANYTHING? Let the Yankees or Red Sox sign him for 20 mil. The Twins don’t need to WASTE money on this guy and then raise my ticket prices…
Does anyone know how Buscher did defensively in the minors? I would concede that if he was bad at that level then we can’t expect much improvement going forward, but if he did well in the minors then that is a different story. Every season is different. It’s not like he threw every ball into the bleachers.
well then the twins will for sure have butcher and harry at third base what a horrible offseason this had been i wish the pholads would see how big of a peice of shi- bill smith is and can his as-.the twins will finish in 4th place without a proven 3rd baseman or power hittier.oh that’s right we still got kubel lol.
Des
From what I’ve read from Thry, he’s never been good (not even average). And he’s 28, so its essentially 0 chance he improves (Koskie was an exception, and Buscher is no Koskie)
Prediction: Twins get half way through Spring Training and make a trade, Buscher/Bonser/Humber for Kouzmanoff. Book it!
In July, Nioka was caught cheating on his wife with TV personality Mona Yamamoto, who had been involved in a previous adulterous episode. The poor play and off-field behavior caused pressure among Giants fans to force Nioka out. Shortly after the season ended, he was traded.
We don’t need another off field Kirby Puckett…
What still bugs me about Wiggy is why after all the talk of him going somewhere to play 3rd, he ends up with the O’s at 1B/DH.
I mean, if the Twins & Giants are considering a less than 100% Crede for 5-7 mil, why the heck wouldn’t the same money over 2 years be of value for Wiggy?
Ryan…
The Tigers and Indians get somewhat better (Everett at SS?!?), but no one can say they will be lights out next year (Indians can’t stay healthy, Tigers are getting older and are underachievers).
What you and many others have done to essentially piss me off is count out the Twins simply because they haven’t done anything this Spring.
This team won IN SPITE of the free agency last year. Many were optimistic about Lamb, Monroe and even Everett. guess what? they made some contributions, but they stunk it up most of the time. This team only got BETTER as the year went on. No more Bassy, Rincoln, Hernandez, Monroe, Lamb, Everett…they gained Liriano, Mijares, Casilla, Span, Buscher+Harris at 3rd (batted nearly .300 and knocked in ~50 guys in their short time there).
guess what? none of the baggage and all of the good is still there. and yet this team is going to suck? I don’t buy it. This team always wins despites what others think will happen.
Yes I’ve had my Kool-Aid and yes it tastes darn good.
Get a clue people - this team will get it done, even without Crede and his bad back and greedy ways.
Twins Buzzard
what are you smoking? I’d love some right now…
if that deal were feasible, don’t you think It’d be done by now?
Book that…
The Twins finally have a chance to get a legitimate, All-Star caliber Third Baseman for a reasonable price. Even at $7 million, the Twins should be strongly consider signing Crede. Thanks for the Blake comparison, Joe, because everyone was on the Blake bandwagon for $7 million per year. If Crede does not pan out, at least it will only be a 1 year deal. Players can bounce back from injuries and Crede has proved himself in the past. I still see the Twins in the running simply based on the fact that it is a 1 year deal. I think $7 million is worth it even if Crede hits “just” 16 home runs by the All-Star break and then gets injured. He would still probably finish third on the team in HR’s. The Twins have a lot of players arbitration eligible after next season, so they don’t want to be bogged down with an older veteran’s contract (Blake), or give money to an average third baseman who is no better than what they have (Wigginton). The Twins need to bring some credibility to the team by Crede, which would dramatically improve the lineup.
If everyone stays healthy (and plays to potential), that would made for a solid middle of the order.
Span
Casilla
Mauer .300+ Avg.
Morneau (20+ HRs)
Crede (20+ HRs)
Kubel (20+ HRs)
Cuddyer (20+ HRs)
Punto
Gomez
medschoolmatt - Koz is coming off surgery and Twins probably want to wait and see how he does during early Spring Training and the Padres need time to evaluate pitchers. So it might not be Bonser or Humber, it could be Perk or Blackburn + Buscher. That’s what my GM brain is thinking.
Ok Buzzard, but it most likely won’t be Bonser or Humber simply because neither have options and they could get either one for cheap on waivers/FA if the Twins cut them. I’d be willing to part with perk for him but if they want Blackburn then forget it.
REALLY PEOPLE
the twins will never do anything by way of a major signing of a free agent. even with the new stadium they will do nothing. shoulda gave a stadium to the vikes at least that owner spends money and tries to win
TWINS SUCK!!!!!!! mauer will be in a yankee uniform in no time
I’d give up Perk too, but I think the Padres are going to want a “for sure” pitcher or two for a guy who will likely play everyday.
a couple of things here….1) the Orioles have said they intend to use Wigginton at FIRST base as a replacement for Kevin Millar who is leaving as an FA…hardly a ringing endorsement of that current state of this 3B defense and 2) if Crede is as healthy as Boras says he is, he would be signed by now. There were more teams at this workout than the Twins and Giants, and if I were in the Twins’ FO, I would look at his medical records and ask him to take a physical. In fact, if I were his agent and he was healthy, I would have made those records available already.
So, while I am very anxious for the Twins to do something with their infield, I am not necessarily disappointed with how they have handled Wiggie and Crede.
I do wonder a bit about Wiggington. At 3 mil he would have been a decent get. Medschool. I agree with you but with a little less venom. There are probable 30 team boards out there all with posters complaining about the weaknesses of their teams. If Buscher, Harris, Tolbert at 3rd and the bullpen with Mijares and Crain another year removed from injuries are the biggest weaknesses, we’re really not in bad shape. In fact, even holding still, on paper, I think this is the best Twins team we have had in a very long time. Now they just have to go out on the field and prove it.
even talking about paying a guy with back problems 7 mil is stupid as all get out, shame on the twins for even getting into this position…they should have signed blake a month or so ago and been done with this whole mess….now we go to spring training with nothing but a platoon left over from last year…i for one am not impressed as the twins have done nothing to improve the offensive weapons on this club- that is very sad commentary for a club who always whined about getting a stadium and then having the revenue to compete…seems to me that we are getting jacked around real well by the twins brain trust, if you can call it that….go wiggy, go blake- i hope you both have all-star years…what could have been………..
HankL,
“We don’t need another off field Kirby Puckett”
Yeah, the Kirby Puckett era was such a terrible experience for the Twins.
Its been great since they replaced him with 25 choirboys and Boy Scouts.
“Crede’s asking price closer to $7 million”
My asking price is $10 million……………………………but nobody seems to be answering.
If we don’t sign Crede I’m fine with going into the start of the season with a Harris/Buscher platoon and I hope they prove all the naysayers wrong; they might not be All-stars but they are serviceable!
Serviceable…Ahhh yes. The excitement and intrigue that word produces is beyond belief.
Catching up with comments:
Jim Pohlad really wants him and said so.
What do you expect Jim Pohlad to say? “I’ve told the front office I’m more concerned about paying down what I owe on the new stadium than I am in improving the team?”
Maybe Jim Pohlad really wants Crede, maybe not, but he’d say say the same thin either way.
As for the extra $2 not being “our” money, as someone said… actually, it is. It comes in the form of higher ticket prices, concessions (at the new ballpark) etc. So in essence, we ARE paying for it.
This kind of thinking kills me. Did you take even a basic economics class in junior high?
If you did (and you paid attention for the first week) you would know that businesses don’t operate that way.
The Twins set ticket prices at the price point which maximizes revenue.
Crede will be lucky to get 4 I dont think he will get 7. I think Buscher can get better defensively and has a good bat. I remember how mornaeu was not the best at first base his rookie year. Now he is great.Why do people feel like a player cant get better at defense with a whole offseason to work on it like Im sure Buscher did. I hope he gets a shot and you Buscher haters eat some crow. Would like to see him hit lefties better though.
…continued…
The Twins (like all baseball teams) know that they’ll draw more fans at lower prices, less fans at higher prices. Somewhere along the price/number of customers graph, those two lines overlap at the point which maximizes revenue. (10 fans at $1 brings in less revenue than 8 fans at $1.50, which brings in more revenue than 4 fans at $2. In this example, the Twins would set their ticket prices at $1.50 because it maximizes revenue.)
Signing Crede may be a good idea, it may be a bad idea, but it would have absolutely not one thing to do with ticket prices. Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Unless, of course, signing Crede increased demand for tickets, which would increase revenue, and quite possibly lead the Twins to believe they could increase prices in the future, or conversely, if signing Crede lowered demand for tickets, which might lead the Twins to decide they need to lower prices in the future.
In the specific case of the Twins, with a new stadium opening, they’ve already announced an approximate 50% increase in average ticket price for 2010, from around $21 to around $33.
If ticket prices were determined by payroll, why wouldn’t the Twins just raise ticket prices and reap the profits? Or, why didn’t the Twins lower ticket prices last year or this year, when payroll is down significantly?
Revenue determines maximum payroll, not the other way around.
For all those who want
Beltre, look at his career stats by year. Does anything strike you as odd?
Sounds like Crede is being GREEDY, it is too bad his agent is Borass, the man who has helped wreck baseball. Can you say Salary Cap?
I don’t understand the debate that the current Twins will get it done. People say we won last year “in spite of Monroe, Livan, Lamb, etc.”
We also got off-the-charts performances from Casilla, Buscher, and Span.
Buscher hit .222 in September. Down the stretch, he was useless. He also hit .386 with RISP. No one can be expected to repeat that.
Casilla had a .608 OPS after the All-Star Break. Yes, he was hurt, but does anyone really think Alexi is the .800 OPS player we saw in the first half? He’s somewhere in the middle, but not that good.
Span’s numbers declined on a monthly basis. They ended up solid, yes, but his slugging numbers can’t be counted on as a repeat, and neither can his average.
What happens if we lose Perkins or Liriano again? Or if Blackburn regresses?
This is a team that can be good this year, but the success of 2008, when looking at the components, was largely a product of luck.
To say that Buscher and Harris will get it done, and that all of the stars that lined up last year will be in place again this year… just isn’t realistic.
Adding Crede makes sense… even if he’s an injury risk. They would’ve been better off trading for a safer bet, but at this point, it seems like Joe is the best available answer.
I didn’t want to have to be hoping for an injury risk like Crede to hold up on our turf, but that’s where I’m at right now…
Allot of continued nonsense postings…i wonder if anyone understands baseball.
Getting Crede means an Allstar 3rd Baseman, HR Power, RBI’s, increased Runs, solid glove at 3rd.
Plus, a draft choice Class A if he goes after the season.
Plus, a reason he will probably wait for the Twins is he is amercian league guy and where do you want to win more with the Twins or in 3rd place with the Giants or behind.
Win Twins!
What happens if we lose Perkins or Liriano again? Or if Blackburn regresses?
And what happens if Crede’s back flares up and he misses like half a season?
5 mil for Crede was pushing it. 7 mil is absolutely insane.
Crede is not as good as Beltre, Heck, Beltre is not as good as Beltre since he’s no longer juicing. Crede is not as good as Chavez. Although he has been about as healthy as Chavez the last two years. If ANY team gives Crede $7 million or more, they are STUPID. That said, with incentives for healthy play, it could be worth that, but not guaranteed. I’m just a fan, I hope our Front Office makes the correct choices for quality, not financial reasons. HURRY UP SPRING TRAINING, I MISS MY DAILY DOSE OF BASEBALL!
Sign Crede to play 3rd and sign Cabrera to play shortstop and send Punto to the bench where he belongs. How can any of you guys say Crede does not deserve 5-7 Million when we paid Punto 4 million. Give me a break!!!!
trade for Jack Hannahan. Maybe not a power hitter or RH but a lot cheaper.
I think we throw all the cards on the table and see what we can get for Gardenhire, Ulger and Punto. We might just get a player to be named later. At least we could get someone who knows how to manage a game on the line.
And what happens if Crede’s back flares up and he misses like half a season?
Yeah, that would be a problem. They’d have to play a Buscher/Harris platoon at third.
Whi would u paye crede 7 million a year 2 play therd bace wen u could just paye mi $6.55 an hour. It jus dont make no darn sence!
Pay the man. Crede is going to blow up this year and is going to be worth the incentive payments. But I know the Twins won’t and us fans are going to be left holding our weenies again this year.
“Jim Pohlad really wants him and said so.”
“What do you expect Jim Pohlad to say?”
I EXPECTED him to say absolutely NOTHING, like he and his entire family have said about player acquisitions since they started with the Twins.
The fact that he said ANYTHING AT ALL on the subject indicates to me that he was saying what he ACTUALLY FELT.
The Giants are starting to bail out of the Manny Derby by bad-mouthing Manny’s shortcomings.
IMO, if they follow through on their withdrawal, they will probably be forced to meet Crede’s demands in order to appease their fan base.
I dunno… I agree bowing out of the Manny stuff would make them more likely to sign Crede, but I’m not sure they’d need to in order to satisfy their fans. They’ve already made a few upgrades so I would think Giant fans would be encouraged with their chances (especially in that division).
Steve from Fridley,
“We also got off-the-charts performances from Casilla, Buscher, and Span.”
“Buscher hit .222 in September. Down the stretch, he was useless.”
Last year the Twins players did SO WELL, that they can’t possibly repeat their performances this year;
OR
Last year they did poorly, proving that they were horse-crap, so they aren’t talented enough to do well this year.
I think your point is that no matter how well or how poorly they played last year, they have no chance of playing well this year.
I’m convinced!
Brando:
Are you possibly suggesting something untoward may have been going on in Beltre’s contract year, when his home run output more than doubled, from an average of 18 HR’s per full season to suddenly 48HR’s per season? Or that his BA increased a robust 40 points? Or, would you be suggesting that in the years since then, he has never approached those #’s?
Mr Beltre is in another contract year. Could be a monster season again. Of course, the pee tests are better now, but so are the masks.
Guess any team making that trade in July….well, buyer beware? Is that what you are suggesting?
Passing on a Scott Boras client is never a bad thing. At one point or another Boras always makes you rue the day you dealt with him.
steve,
Or maybe your point was that the Twins have so many young players that have not yet established their norms, that predicting future performances based on small career samples is uncertain.
That would be a valid premise.
Boras wants $5M. I’m guessing the Twins and/or Giants offered something in the $3M range plus incentives so to raise the stakes Boras has brought up the magic $7M number to get the deal done at $5M after negotiating.
The Giants have done stupid things in the past so don’t put it past them….
Predicting baseball is a bit like predicting weather without radar. All the signs point to a certain outcome, but the outcome is only as certain as a seemingly infinite set of variables. It’s odd then that predicting seasons is more controlled than predicting games, or series. Over 162 games, the variables aggregate more toward the mean, and what you see is usually what you get (even that though is marred by the exhibition quality of too many September games)….
My point being………..other than baseball is the greatest game ever invented, and no matter how many statistical formulas are applied, it still defies prediction. We do get to look back and argue about what variables produced what results, and that is a great part of the fun.
For those of you tired of my rants on PED’s……well, that is one variable that I am unwilling to concede is beyond us. Nothing has destroyed the integrity of the sport more than this, and neither the league or the union has any interest in controlling it. So, I’ll rant on, with apologies to those who might find my zeal a bit off-putting. In my view, PED players are anathema unless they come clean and serve substantial suspensions.
Don’t get me wrong a healthy Crede would be REALLY nice for the Twins at 3rd and his bat would be a Huge help for us, BUT….if we give that guy $7-million a year what would the Twins have to pay all our young arbitration eligible players next year??? He made $5-mil last year and was an All-Star,but can’t stay on the field. Offering 4+ incentives if he stays on the field is cool. A penny more and “See Ya.” Now I know we’ve all been on Bill Smith’s case about not making a move, but if he caves to Boras and offers a dime more than five TOTAL then we’ll know for Sure that Mr. Smith is in over his head and needs to go.
Joe,
With all due respect I strongly disagree with the statement about Crede being an elite third baseman.
He might play good defense. But he’s had one 30 homer season. His highest on base percentage in a season where he’s had more than 50 at bats is .323.
If .750 to .800 is considered an average OPS Crede is on the very low end of that for his career.
And couple those numbers with the two seasons of back injuries and I’d take a pass. I don’t think he’s worth it.
Just my opinion.
if we give that guy $7-million a year what would the Twins have to pay all our young arbitration eligible players next year???
What Crede is paid has little to do with what any Twins arb-eligible player will be paid next year.
If you guys need me to play the hot spot this summer. I’ll step up to the plate and I won’t let you guys down. Hands down I am the best player in Japan right now with the name Lew. Theres this guy over here with the same name, that is way better than me,but he spells his name LUI. so that doesnt count. Come on guys remember that time I had that career high 3 RBI game.If you sign me this off season I promise I will consistently do this every 20 or thirty games or so. Mark my words. Plus I Miss playing tickle wars with Nick Punto and Mike Cuddlesonfire. And I miss getting my little buns slapped by BIG PAPA GARDINHIRE> P.S. can you guys send me some fan mail. It gets lonely at night here. Plus I need a night light cause I’m afraid dark. I MISS U GUYS>>>>> LEW “gomer pile” FORD
Why does Crede get a good rap and cuddy a bad one, they both had one good year and have injury issues. People think Crede can turn the corner but not cuddy who you want to do better. Yes some players overachived but also some underachived. Young,Harris,cuddy and the young players stepped up in pressure situations and did well. Try some positive statements.I bet there is alot of teams that wish they had our cast of players out on the field. Its like some want Punto and Cuddy to fail so they can say they are right. The hussel and defence they both provide is always a big plus and rubs off on the rest of the team.
Right on Mark and CoachCal.
Buscher will be improved. And he can
hit lefties.
First place Twins this year!!!
Well put coachcal. I can remember more than one time that punto and cuddy rubbed off on me.
Point on predicting baseball. Take a look at the power rankings on MSN. It shows the final rankings and the high and low rankings during the season. It is very interesting. Indians started out number 1 and had a low of 27. Rays had a low of 24 and a high of 1. The most consistent team was the Red Sox who only had a gap of about 8. Now you guys are seriously trying to predict how a very young team that was 15 games over .500 that had a lot of things going right for it as well as a lot of things go wrong will do over 162 games? Well, actually on 2nd thought go ahead. I am sure you will be right for a little while not matter what you predict.
Thanks toppdogg its good to know people want him to do well.
If in fact the asking price for Crede jumped from $5M to $7M in guaranteed money (not incentive stuff), then I hope Crede signs elsewhere, hopefully the National League, and I hope he has a short and crappy career at that.
That was funny Des I am ready to see what happens.I think everyone just wants it to begin already winter sucks!!!
I hope your still talking baseball lew ford
I hope your still talking about baseball lew ford
They used to toss me their balls to warm up my big stick during BP
nice let me guess they also used to wet you down with thier sweat
No they used to rub me down w/ ben gay and boof let me smack around his rosin bag
T.Swen nailed it. If Punto is worth 4MM/year….how is it a stretch to pay Crede 6 to 7MM? No one will be shocked if he signs with the Giants for 6.5M and ends up hitting 25 to 30 homeruns along with 90 to 100 Ribbies. Smith will spin his little excuse….”well, we weren’t convinced he was healthy.” Well, Billy…we’re not convinced your the man for the job.
Not a lot of trades really happen at all cuz most teams want to get rid of the guys they don’t like for guys they do like. Its just not a great formula for success. I would have been ok with the Twins signing a 3rd baseman but am by no means writing off their chance just because they did not. What I would like the Twins to explore is this. We have 4 pretty good outfielders, 3 of whom are very young. We have Aaron Hicks in the minors who will probably make a splash in a couple years. Don’t we also have the minor league player of the year in Ben Revere. Also this Winfree is pretty good also I think as well as guys like Hughes who could succeed there. Why not trade super prospect Revere for a top 3rd base or SS prospect who is maybe being blocked by an established player so that in 2 years or even next year we won’t have this problem.
Sorry for the lousy grammar there.
UASFChief
Do you follow the Twins? In case you haven’t noticed they have a finite number of dollars they are willing to spend period. What they pay a position player or pitcher this year sets the standard for next year. If they signed a Pitcher like Randy Wolf for $10-12mil for this year you don’t think that will affect what they’ll have to pay guys like Baker to or Slowey to avoid arbitration next year??? We paid Punto & Kuble $3.5 to start at SS and DH. You don’t think that affect what Cassila will get offered? So now throw Crede in there at $7-million a year, that has ramifications down the line, especially for small market teams like the Twins. One of the reasons Terry Ryan never signed big time free agents was contract headaches it would cause him down the line trying to retain young talent.
Do you follow the Twins?
Yes. Yes I do. Thanks for asking.
Apparently, that makes one of us.
Hey Lew Tell us the story about teaching the Bat boys how to stretch your bat.
All i care about is that Tomohiro Nioka went to Kinki University.
Another Puckett? Pfft, Puck had nothing on this guy. Neither did the combined efforts of the love-boat scandal.
I gotta go pack my bags. I just got accepted into Kinki.
Hey Lew Tell us the story about teaching the Bat boys how to stretch your bat.
I think this blog might be a little to racey. plus I’m in love with Nick Punto and Prince Fielder
The only reason I left the team is because you guys couldn’t afford me anymore. plus I was making hunter look bad, and they sent me down to rochchester.
Chief: Last time I checked Scott Baker, Boof Bonser, Jesse Crain, Carlos Gomez, Matt Guerrier, Brendan Harris, Francisco Liriano, Pat Neshek, Glen Perkins and Delmon Young are all arbitration eligible after this season. So giving Crede or any player $7-mil for one year doesn’t affect what you have to offer one the position players listed above to wrap them up for a few years to avoid arbitration??? Hello!Scott Boras client, Gomez isn’t going to ask for Punto money if a beat up Crede gets $7-mil from the Twins. You fly-boys need to brush up on those negotiation skills. Bill Smith is givng a seminar at the Embassy Suites in Bloomington see you there!
It’s always going to be something.
Good Show Lew. You seem to be the only one on this blog who seems to know the real side of twins baseball.
Jim Pohlad knows that we were promised
up tp 25 mil to be injected into payroll to make this team a top contender when Target Field opens next year.
Or did they lie to us as we approved that new stadium for the billionaires/??
Bastards are still very cheap and strange.
You dont give Crede jack let alone 7 mil.
But you do pay 7 mil for Atkins in a trade for Young with Rockies.
Theres the power 3B we need for years!
Than you trade and get Hardy for SS from Brewers and he gets 5 Mil.
Now the biggie…ten mil for free agent Dunn for OF and DH.
Should get street for relief and thats 7 mil.
Twins payroll is way below average for good teams…$60 mil…so lets put that promised $25 mil into that payroll and itsd a respectable $85 mil.
Dunn 10m
Atkins 7 mil
Hardy 5 mil
Street 5 mil
Dump Young and pitcher.-3 mil
total is $24 mil
or
$84 mil and look at the power we added at OF,3B and SS and rp!!!!!!
Thats what Jim Pohlad must order slick willie Smith….
“And what happens if Crede’s back flares up and he misses like half a season?”
That’s just it, I don’t think this is as big of a deal as most of you. It seems the majority on here are thinking of a Crede signing as an all or nothing deal: if he’s healthy it’s a good deal, if his back flares up again the deal is a bust.
If and/or when he’s healthy, you have a decent bat with plus defense playing a position that’s been a weak spot for years. If and/or when he gets hurt, you go with the Buescher/Harris platoon. Crede had back problems last year and still managed to play 97 games. The White Sox got some value for the 5.1 million they paid him - albeit, not full value, but they did get something for their money.
The only way it’s a total loss is if he misses the whole season. No matter how bad his back turns out to be, I don’t see that happening.
Finally, I don’t know why so many people are getting so riled up about Boras saying they want 7 million. That is just not going to happen. Clearly the Giants aren’t offering even close to that or else he would have signed by now. While I do despise Boras and some of his methods, I can’t fault him for trying to get the most he can for each of his clients. That is his job. If he were my agent, I would expect nothing less.
Crede isn’t going to get 7 million. He probably won’t even get the 5.1 he got last year. I’m guessing he’ll wind up signing for something closer to what Wiggy got, plus incentives. A one year deal to establish value.
Even if he does get hurt, I’m just not seeing the downside. I think they should make an offer.
This is probably a stupid idea, but why hasn’t anybody mentioned trying Delmon Young at third? I realize he’s always been an outfielder, but why not give it a try this spring?
JER HENNEN says:
[quote] February 9th, 2009 at 12:31 am
Jim Pohlad knows that we were promised
up tp 25 mil to be injected into payroll to make this team a top contender when Target Field opens next year.
Or did they lie to us as we approved that new stadium for the billionaires/??
Bastards are still very cheap and strange.
You dont give Crede jack let alone 7 mil.
But you do pay 7 mil for Atkins in a trade for Young with Rockies.
Theres the power 3B we need for years!
Than you trade and get Hardy for SS from Brewers and he gets 5 Mil.
Now the biggie…ten mil for free agent Dunn for OF and DH.
Should get street for relief and thats 7 mil.
Twins payroll is way below average for good teams…$60 mil…so lets put that promised $25 mil into that payroll and itsd a respectable $85 mil.
Dunn 10m
Atkins 7 mil
Hardy 5 mil
Street 5 mil
Dump Young and pitcher.-3 mil
total is $24 mil
or
$84 mil and look at the power we added at OF,3B and SS and rp!!!!!!
Thats what Jim Pohlad must order slick willie Smith…. [/quote]
Maybe that will set us up for this year, but then if that is the cieling for payroll they will have a hard time signing the young pitching staff, Span, Gomez, and Mauer back to the line-up.
And we will be out of everybody’s favorite home-grown Twins talents.
Although, that Idea kinda worked in ‘91….
But you’re dreaming, pal.
sploorp says:
February 9th, 2009 at 12:58 am
This is probably a stupid idea, but why hasn’t anybody mentioned trying Delmon Young at third? I realize he’s always been an outfielder, but why not give it a try this spring?
hahaha. Why not have Kevin Slowey bat Clean-up. It’s worth a try……
Wow. I sound like a jerk today. Sorry guys.
Good grief.
When will people grasp that Wigginton is merely a utility player. An average one at that. What is under average is his play in the field.
Does anybody actually watch the game?
As for Crede, that is insane.
You will know what type of person he is by his decision.
He could win a world series title this year in Minnie.
He will never win a title in San Fran .
Let’s see what kind of character he has.
[…] you’ve got to love Scott Boras and the things he says: Joe Crede is seeking a base salary of closer to $7 million than $5 million, which could decrease […]
My only satisfaction is knowing there won’t be a billionaire Pohlad in heaven to screw up the Twins team there.
T.Swen nailed it. If Punto is worth 4MM/year….how is it a stretch to pay Crede 6 to 7MM?
Somebody a few days ago wrote a post asking which of four things the Twins would probably regret most. My answer to that question addressed the point you made here.
I’m going to see if I can find it…but if I can’t, here’s a summary.
Punto was signed much earlier in the offseason. Before people started to realize that the market just wasn’t there to overpay players.
If the Twins had waited on Punto and signed Wigginton instead, they would’ve overpaid him comparred to what he got now.
My only satisfaction is knowing there won’t be a billionaire Pohlad in heaven to screw up the Twins team there.
You stay classy Dave.
With a lot of people losing there jobs, companies going out of business and people struggling to get by, why should we as fans spend a DIME on tickets if the billionaire Pohlads are not going to add payroll like they promised to improved the team? Could there be a more selfish family out there than the billionaire Pohlads?
If the Twins had waited on Punto and signed Wigginton instead, they would’ve overpaid him comparred to what he got now.
So your point is we should be happy they overpaid Punto instead?
That’s why I’m trying to find my earlier post Chief. It sums things up better than that blurb.
Okay, here’s the post. To set the context: thrylos had just asked which of four things the Twins would regret most:
thry: I’m going with C.
I’m not upset with extending Gardy. He’s obviously got the ear of the players (if that’s good or bad is up to you), and I think showing a commitment to him now demonstrates to the younger players that the way they’re playing now (which they seem to enjoy) is going to be that way for a while. So hopefully that helps convince some of them to stick around when contract talks start.
On B, I figure if it’s cheap…why not keep Redmond around? The guy doesn’t tear it up, but I think for a backup catcher he does an excellent job. Sure the Twins have younger guys they could probably use in that position…but when you’ve got Redmond holding down the fort, why not take the opportunity to give them full time play at AAA. It’s not like Mauer’s going anywhere for a while (knock wood)
When it comes to Wigginton, I think the Twins will regret not going ahead and giving him Blake money when they thought that was what he wanted. I don’t think anybody forsaw the market doing what it did.
But the reason I think they’ll regret signing Punto the most is because he was a known commodity, and it seemed like only one other team was really interested in his services. If Punto leaves, there’s no player that can step in “immediately” at SS, which would’ve left holes at 3B AND SS…but then with Punto still unsigned, it would’ve left them with the money to go ahead and overpay Wigginton when his name was first floating around (or heck, maybe even go get Blake, though I don’t remember if Blake was signed before or after Punto)
Once they had fixed the hole at 3B with Blake/Wiggy, or something else…then that would’ve left “Who takes over SS?” However, you could then look to the FA market for either SS or 2B (because Casilla could shift if need be) and see guys like Orlando Cabrera still floating around out there to be had at the *new* market value.
That’s why I go with the Punto signing. Because the market is much more open for FA SS/2B comparred to 3B. So instead of overpaying SS and being left with few options at 3B…they could’ve overpayed 3B and then been able to sign a new 2B/SS at below market.
Offer Crede $5M; set a bonus of $2.5M more if he hits 30 HRs and 100 RBI. If Boras and Crede are right about his back, then these should be attainable goals.
Offer Crede $5M; set a bonus of $2.5M more if he hits 30 HRs and 100 RBI. If Boras and Crede are right about his back, then these should be attainable goals.
Such a contract is not allowable under the current collective bargaining agreement.
Playing time incentives (IP, games, etc) can be included. Performance incentives (HRs, RBI, Wins, etc) cannot be included.
Grab your backpack, Classy Dave. There’s your bus. Go join the rest of the Angry Children.
Way to put down a dead guy Dave real classy.Maybe pohlads are cheap but at least they have respect and class.
“With a lot of people losing there jobs, companies going out of business and people struggling to get by, why should we as fans spend a DIME on tickets if the billionaire Pohlads are not going to add payroll”
Let me get this straight:
Times are tough for people and business, so if the Pohlads do not spend a whole bunch of money to employ one more player, no one should spend any of their expendible income on tickets.
That arguement really follows well.
Don’t the Pohlads get bail-out money for their banks? I read what Wells Vegas I mean Wells Fargo was going to do with bailout money. Maybe the Pohlads could funnel money somewhere?
Dave and others: Instead of ranting about why anyone would pay to see the Twins in 09, just don’t buy a ticket yourself. You are welcome to vote with your feet. We won’t miss you.
As for Crede, he had a serious back injury that if I remember correctly, not everyone comes back from. It is not just some twisted muscle thing. So, it is a bigger risk than many of you think and the Twins are apparently not alone in being cautious. If that were true, Boras would not have felt compelled to call reporters to tell them his client was healthy.
While I agree that a offer in the $2-3M range plus incentives would seem appropriate, it does not appear that Crede or his agent agree.
Well I think the way the market is panning out that all Boras’s clients are going to have to settle or sit out a year. The owners are not interested in giving these older players these ridiculous contracts anymore. Especially with all the success younger more athletic teams have been having in recent years. I say that if Crede really wants someone to pay him a base salary of 7 mil + incentives he should play somewhere else. Nothing he’s done over the past 2 season’s constitutes that kind of money in this market. I think that the Twins should offer him a base salary of about 4 mil with the chance through incentives to make 7 mil. That’s a ton of money still to commit to a guy who’s had 2 back surgeries.
Mudcat,
The Pohlad’s don’t own any banks. They sold off Marquette Banks back in ‘02.
shazel: No player benefits from sitting a year. You could see some odd contracts start springing up as Boras’s clients start getting more desperate to find work.
And not because they need the money…but rather because it’d be hard to pitch oneself as being worth a whole heck of a lot after taking a full season off.
If you put delmon at third he might be able to finally hit his cut off man.
Thanks, SweatOne, I forgot that. But I don’t think it would kill the government to give MLB a bailout. All you have to do is ask.
oops, sorry, that should be “SweetOne”
The sentiment seems to be that it’s a good thing we passed at 7 mill.But being on this board for 2 years now i can see it now.With 20/20 hindset,if Crede blows up and has a great year and our 2 man rotation fails,some will say that we should have given Crede 7 mill and that’s further evidence that BS sucks.Thank God,BS doesn’t read this board,although many are sure he does.
birdofprey, you’re right about Dave’s comments not being terribly classy. But weren’t you the one who wished Crede a “short and crappy career?”
Anyhoo, $7 million per is too much for Crede, imo, because of the health concerns and the, as it turns out, really depressed FA market.
With 20/20 hindset,if Crede blows up and has a great year and our 2 man rotation fails,some will say that we should have given Crede 7 mill
For the record, while I doubt Crede gets $7M guaranteed, I am in favor of signing Crede now, regardless whether he ‘blows up’ or plays very little.
The only risk is money, and the Twins have it to spend.
And it’s too early in his tenure to say whether BS ’sucks’ or is great, but to date I think it’s fair to say he’s off to a slow start.
Chief: I think the only problem is that it appears to get Crede “now” would require 7 mil.
I think it’s fair to say the Twins should have SOMETHING on the table for Crede, if only to get contract talks going. But I’m curious as to if a 3mil guaranteed up to 5 mil based on PAs would be enough to kick things off.
Interesting blurb here…Not entirely surprising, although I may have to “un-book” myself:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=22&entry_id=35585
chief-I don’t think it’s fair to cherry-pick my comment.I personal agree with your take,but some on this board will spin anything long-term to prove(in their minds at least),that BS and the front office doesn’t have a clue.
Dave,
“why should we as fans spend a DIME on tickets if the billionaire Pohlads are not going to add payroll like they promised to improved the team? Could there be a more selfish family out there?”
The Twins are deciding whether or not to spend $7 million to upgrade 3B, and you have decided not to spend a DIME.
That would make yours a more selfish family.
Take your kid to a ballgame, you selfish…..!
I just got two Words
TY Wiggington
I don’t think it’s fair to cherry-pick my comment…some on this board will spin anything long-term to prove(in their minds at least),that BS and the front office doesn’t have a clue.
You are 100% correct on both accounts, and I apologize for taking your comment out of context.
Giants just signed Arilla… Crede’s market is getting smaller.
give crede 2 years 10 mil and see what happens
chief-There an old saying something like”There’s alot ways to skin a cat”.Bottom line-there’s alot of ways to make the same point.As long as we both want the best for the Twins,that’s all that counts.IMO,some are not of the same mindset!
The Twins just dont want to spend the money Pure and Simple. 7 mil may be high for an injury prone player but if he can stay healthy and hit 20-30 Homers its worth the investment. One time the twins need to spend Money You cant develope players forever. GO Twins
Crede will not get $7m… that’s absurd. Especially when there appeared to be only two teams (publicly known) that were interested… and I just read this about one of them: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=22&entry_id=35585 Plus with the signings of Aurilia and Uribe, they seem to have collected a couple infielders already.
Personally I believe the Twins will sign him but Boras and his client are going to have to settle on a heavily, incentive-laiden contract.
Des, Buscher was named DEFENSIVE player of the year in 2006 when he was in AA ball with the Giants. I’m thinking this will be Buschers year. I’m pulling for him.
[…] they’re backing off on Joe Crede. At the least, Crede would have to come down from his $7MMish demand for the Giants to sign […]
