StarTribune.com

Mariners sign Cordero; Twins take another pass

Posted on March 13th, 2009 – 6:37 AM
By Joe Christensen

FORT MYERS, FLA. — The Twins didn’t feel Chad Cordero had shown enough progress in his comeback from last July’s right shoulder surgery and took a pass, as the former Washington Nationals closer signed a minor-league deal with the Mariners last night.

Cordero is going to need time to rehab the shoulder, and scouts have yet to see his fastball push much past 80 miles per hour.

As I wrote for today’s paper, the Twins are excited about Jesse Crain, who has looked very good this spring in his second year removed from shoulder surgery.

Between Crain, Luis Ayala, Matt Guerrier and Jose Mijares (who still could face a stint in Class AAA) they feel like their late-inning setup corps should be better.

Note: The Twins play a night game against the Reds tonight, so it’ll be mid-afternoon before we have the lineups.

147 Responses to "Mariners sign Cordero; Twins take another pass"

AaronK says:

March 13th, 2009 at 6:52 am

Let’s hope the Twins are right about Crain. I have my doubts personally, but I have been wrong a million times before.

the Minnesota Cat says:

March 13th, 2009 at 7:00 am

I’m okay with the FO taking a pass on Cordero since he may be in the same situation that the Brewers had with Gagne. He might need another year before he will be able to help any club. I’m hoping for a great year for Crain since he should be healthy now and the idea of him having a slurve is great to go with his fastball.

saam says:

March 13th, 2009 at 7:01 am

I believe Crain has a very good chance to establish himself as the Twins setup man in 2009. Even if I didn’t feel that way, there’s no reason to believe Cordero could help, especially since he hasn’t shown anything yet.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 7:02 am

With how the Mariners are right now…you’d think they’d take the guy in the big club right away if he could help now.

yapper says:

March 13th, 2009 at 7:16 am

But a minor league deal? Might have been worth it to have him ready for later on in the season should our relievers flop like late last year.

Also, who else is out there for relievers? Anyone decent left? I surely hope our guys can do it. They have done it before, but last years performance left a sour taste in alot of people’s mouths.
If they are not getting it done and we are in the race, I fully expect a deadline deal this year for the best reliever available at the time.

AaronK says:

March 13th, 2009 at 7:27 am

yapper makes a good point. He took a minor league deal. Would that have really been that risky? This deal has the potential for a big payoff.

gobbledygookguy says:

March 13th, 2009 at 7:40 am

not much to lose with that deal. if he needs time in the minors to get back in shape the money is peanuts. very low risk gamble for the fisherman.

Adam S. says:

March 13th, 2009 at 8:09 am

what about this lineup: (it does well for me on MLB 09)

span
casilla
mauer
morneau
young
kubel
cuddyer
crede
punto

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 8:16 am

Adam: Is Crede already Twin in ‘09 or did you have to make that move yourself?

Swing says:

March 13th, 2009 at 8:39 am

Jesse Crain seems recovered from his injury. He has tons of talent and is displaying his effectiveness this Spring. He can certainly be our 8th inning reliever.

Des says:

March 13th, 2009 at 8:59 am

Adam, if those are the players I agree with you.
Casilla
Mauer
Gomez
Morneau
Young
Kubel
Cuddyer
Crede
Punto

I have a little more confidence in Gomez improving than Span maintaining on what they did a year ago.

AaronK says:

March 13th, 2009 at 9:02 am

My only issue with Crain is it seems his Fastball is too straight. Maybe it is just my perception.

Columbo says:

March 13th, 2009 at 9:06 am

I am also in the camp that believes that Jesse Crain could be our 8th inning guy.
His fastball clocks at 95 MPH, and with the added pitch, maybe that will make him a bit more effective. He certainly has the composure to be that guy, IMO.

Willie Norwood says:

March 13th, 2009 at 9:10 am

So does this look like the current projection for the bullpen?

6 man bullpen:

Nathan
Crain
Ayala
Guerrier
Breslow
Humber

7 man bullpen:

Same as above plus either Jones or Mijares

I still think that it will be a 7 man pen. I also think that there will probably be a trade either before spring training or before July as teams fall out of contention (this assumes the Twins are in contention at that point.) I just don’t think they are done with the bullpen…they’ve spent too much time looking at people so far to make me think it is set.

Also, does anyone know if scouts follow the WBC games? There were quite a few non-major and minor league affiliated players/pitchers that I saw that looked decent. Just wondering if teams follow these temporary teams close enough for someone to open their eyes.

beetlejuice says:

March 13th, 2009 at 9:35 am

Adam S. You are forgetting Gomez in that lineup.

BC of ND says:

March 13th, 2009 at 9:53 am

I agree CF is more or less there for Gomez to lose if he struggles and he hasn’t yet this spring. I think Span is going to get the short end of the outfield rotation this year. I’m not sure about Humber being in the bullpen i think Dickey will beat him out.

Fire Gardy » Cordero Goes, Twins Place Hope in Crain says:

March 13th, 2009 at 9:57 am

[…] The Twins had been looking at Chad Cordero, coming off shoulder surgery last summer, but have decided not to pursue him as he’s now signed a minor league contract with the […]

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 9:58 am

Cordero would have turned down an identical minor-league deal with the Twins, because of the better opportunity with a bad bullpen in Seattle.
Plus, he is a West Coast kid - Upland, CA. and Cal State Fullerton.

mickey mental says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:13 am

maybe the cordero affair was another attempt by the twins front office to alienate the fan base.

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:14 am

Sane,
Have you seen that Matzek kid from Capo pitch yet?? He no hit us through five innings the other night. How would you like your kid to be left handed and throw a mid 90’s fastball with control! No wonder Baseball America thinks he will be a top 10 pick. How is your team doing so far?

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:15 am

Cordero had a couple of other contract offers already before choosing the Mariners. The Twins did not offer him a contract at all.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:22 am

Jeff,

Matzek beat our Freshman team three years ago.
He is a player.

We are 2-2 with three injured starters including our #1 pitcher.
We are not using that as an excuse…… but upon further review……yes we are!

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:28 am

sane
We lost that one game to Matzek and we play again today at 3:00 at Foothill. Are you guys out of it now or do you play again soon?

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:32 am

sane, Jeff,
Get a room.

Hey, just kidding. I love eavesdropping on you guys, seriously.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:35 am

About Gomez batting 3rd in front of Morneau. Do you really want Gomez trying to steal second when Justin is in the batters box?

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:36 am

Matt Guerrier isn’t a good relief pitcher!

HOW CAN THE GUY WHO COST US THE POST-SEASON A VIABLE CANDIDATE FOR OUR BP!

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:36 am

maybe the cordero affair was another attempt by the twins front office to alienate the fan base.

Yeah, because their last attempt (Gagne according to who you talk to) certainly turned out well for the Brewers…

Here’s another reason the Twins may not have been too high on bringing in Cordero.

They signed Crede, who will be trying to prove he’s back and ready to go after back surgery.

They have Mauer, who will be trying to prove he’s back and ready to go after kindey surgery and a problem with his joints.

They have Punto, who just got plunked and thankfully doesn’t appear to be suffereing any ill effects.

They have Nathan, who had some shoulder sorness that appears to have faded.

Perhaps they figured they had enough question marks injury wise as it is that they didn’t want to have to bring in a new one in Cordero.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:37 am

HOW CAN THE GUY WHO COST US THE POST-SEASON A VIABLE CANDIDATE FOR OUR BP!

Morneau’s a candidate for the bullpen?

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:39 am

T

The best thing that could happen to this team is a Punto injury…don’t ya think?

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:41 am

Look we know what Morneau did at the end of last season, but he certainly didn’t lose 5 games single handedly in the final 2 months of the season!

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:41 am

The best thing that could happen to this team is a Punto injury…don’t ya think?

I’ve always found it rather classless to wish injury upon a player. As karma tends to pay those types of people back in spades.

That said, it would all depend on if Punto’s replacement could make up for the lack of glove with the increase in bat.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:42 am

but he certainly didn’t lose 5 games single handedly in the final 2 months of the season!

Oh! You’re talking about Nathan then blowing 2-3 saves there towards the end of the season.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:42 am

I guess we, the fans, will be subjected to Gardy playing his favs until the mob is calling for their heads ala Rincon.

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:42 am

I think it is really inappropriate for someone to wish an injury to someone. Especially to a player to a team they supposedly root for.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:43 am

Jeff,
In the Loara tournament, all teams get five regardless, so we play Saturday.

Let me give you advanced warning, if you continue asking me how we are doing.

If we start losing, I am going to start lying to you.

KIDDING!!

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:44 am

You must’ve been so relieved when they resigned Punto. Especially now that he’s been put down as the starter.

Otherwise what else would you be able to talk about for the next 162 games?

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:44 am

Nope I’m talking about a mop-up guy who was givin too many opportunities to ruin our 08 season. In fact he was givin so many opportunities that he succeeded!

... says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:45 am

I think most of “we fans” are much more fickle than Twins coaching (thankfully).

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:45 am

T
I think the Nathan situation last year was also a result of him feeling that he had to carry the entire load. That was at the time when it seemed our bullpen was blowing every other game for us. Lets hope they don’t wear down like last year.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:45 am

Matt Guerrier and Nick Punto are detrimental to this team.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:47 am

Humber can do Guerriers job better and cheaper.

Tolbert can do Punto’s job better and cheaper.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:48 am

I don’t have to wish Nicky ill. He wishes himself ill, if he didn’t WANT to be hurt all the time he wouldn’t slide into first!! PLUS SLIDING INTO FIRST SLOWS YOU DOWN YOU IDIOT!

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:50 am

We will need Guerrier.

... says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:50 am

Settle down shazel. We get it. You don’t like Nick Punto.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:51 am

shazel

The whole “gardy playing faves” theme is the biggest load of crap on this board.

Exactly who would you play at SS in place of Punto? Harris? Go ahead, shazel, tell us your choice. You must have a favorite.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:51 am

We will need Guerrier in 2006. Oh wait that was three years ago. Guess we don’t need Matt Guerrier. Maybe he can go blow a dozen saves for the Rangers or something.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:51 am

Nope I’m talking about a mop-up guy who was givin too many opportunities to ruin our 08 season.

Here’s the fun thing about the blame game. There’s 25 guys on the roster. One guy can suck, but there’s still 24 other guys that can just as easily help out.

People will make excuses for Morneau, Nathan, Mauer, etc…but the truth is they had moments when they were called on and they let the team down.

One hit on the final Saturday of the weekend and Morneau puts the Twins in the postseason.

Ben W says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:54 am

Bullpen pitchers make easy scapegoats.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:55 am

I would START anybody who plays fundamentally sound enough baseball to KNOW that you don’t slide into first base! One of the first things anyone playing baseball is that you do not slide into 1B. HELLO!! It’s unneeded crap just like his slow walks back to the dugout after striking out. The only reason he gets the passes he does is because he’s a D minded utility player who can’t hit. Sounds like someone else who used to play baseball named Ron Gardenhire!

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:55 am

Bullpen pitchers make easy scapegoats.

That…but also it’s easy to scapegoat a player you don’t like.

Because you’ll remember the times they fail vs. the times they save the day.

Where as with your favorite players, you’ll overlook the bad and pick out their best moments.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:57 am

It’s unneeded crap just like his slow walks back to the dugout after striking out.

I heard that Alex Rodriquez will sometimes fart on his way back to the bench after striking out.

Unneeded crap like that is the reason the I would never want him on the Twins.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:57 am

shazel,
“Tolbert can do Punto’s job better and cheaper.”

Is that based on Tolbert’s .080 BA (2 for 25) in ST when HE KNOWS HE IS FIGHTING FOR A JOB??!!

We need clutch guys like that who can’t hit ST pitchers ( minor leaguers?) who are mainly throwing fast balls and change-ups

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 10:59 am

It’s also easy to do what shazel does. He pretty much overlooks everything except his need to trash his list of “favorites”.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:00 am

It is not Scapegoating when he lost 5 games pitching only about 3 innings in the midst of a pennant race. This would NEVER be forgiven by any fan base on either coasts.

Ben W says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:01 am

It is scapegoating when you look at Guerrier’s losses out of the bullpen and point at him, when you could just as easily look at the hitters who weren’t performing.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:01 am

sane

Keep referencing ST stats. Good for you.

mickey mental says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:02 am

T, by saying “maybe the cordero affair was another attempt by the twins front office to alienate the fan base.”

i was attempting to use ironic sarcasm to show how ridiculous such “conspiracy theories” come across.

apparently, on some level, i succeeded.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:03 am

ben w

the hitters had already performed Matt Guerrier came into everyone of those games with a lead!

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:04 am

“One of the first things anyone playing baseball is that you do not slide into 1B.”

Would you rather have players who go HALF-SPEED to 1B and get thrown out, even after an infield bobble?

Like 80% of MLB hitters?

If that is Punto’s worst sin, then he should be sainted!

Never mind.
St. Nick is already taken.

Ben W says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:05 am

The hitters already performed?

Do the hitters get to take the last couple innings off?

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:06 am

shazel,
For a guy fighting for his job, ST stats ARE CRUCIAL.

For players who have jobs, ST stats are meaningless.

Tolbert is failing on the only stage that he has.

... says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:08 am

Guerrier is like my laptop. Last year it kept intermittently turning off by itself. I could have thrown it out and gone out and spent a lot of money to get a new one, instead I figured it was overheating. I cleaned out the fan box and heat sinks as well as some software cleaning to ease up some of the computing. The computer has not had one issue since and is still running excellent saving me a lot of money.

Dave T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:09 am

Guerrier was overworked in 2008, resulting in ineffectiveness, because our starters ran out of gas after the 5th inning. If they can all go 6 innings this year, we won’t need so many good arms in the bullpen.

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:09 am

If I did wish some type of injury to someone… I would have to say that it would not be such a bad thing for Shazel to develop a case of carpal tunnel syndrome today! Did you have nails for breakfast or something today?? Jeeesshhhh calm down.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:10 am

shazel thinks Gardy should not have handed the ball to one of his faves, Guerrier, last year. He would have preferred to see Mariano Rivera get the ball.

Point of order, shazel: Rivera was not a choice for Gardy.

Adam S. says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:11 am

T:
yea Crede is already a Twin on the game, it is pretty up to date. they will update rosters online after spring training too.

beetlejuice:
i know i did forgot gomez in my lineup, but it would be hard to have gomez and young in the same lineup. if you do i can see span sitting out.

Adam S. says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:14 am

its fricken fun making different lineups. i dont think the twins have had this many solid options as long as i can remember.

if crede is struggling you can always put in buscher, really load up w/lefties. harris isnt a bad option at short either.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:16 am

Look you guys are treating me like a whitesux fan. I was a huge Matt Guerrier supporter for a long time! I was one of the people who always referenced the good stats he had accumulated as our mop up guy and said “this guy needs to get an opportunity to start or be a late inning reliever.”

Then as we all know it happened and Matt did really good in 07. Last year he regressed. His breaking stuff lost it’s sharpness and players were hitting him hard consistently. This makes me think that he could help us this year but only as a mop up pitcher. Well, I like Humber and we all know the situation.

I’ve never liked Punto. I don’t ususally bring it up on this blog because it’s been said a billion times by plenty of folks. I don’t put any merit into Tolberts ST stats and I think he could do Punto’s job better if he were given the playing time and allowed to get comfortable. Maybe Tolbert’s range isn’t quite as good as Punto’s(anyone know Tolberts RZR?) but Punto bobbles routine plays on a regular basis and hopefully Tolbert wouldn’t.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:18 am

Birdofprey….

Delainey and Slama were options to gardy? There wasn’t even a mention of putting Guerrier to pasture even though it was obvious he had nothing left!

USAFChief says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:23 am

Would you rather have players who go HALF-SPEED to 1B and get thrown out, even after an infield bobble?

Like 80% of MLB hitters?

I call BS.

For a guy fighting for his job, ST stats ARE CRUCIAL

But those stats are still just as meaningless when it comes to predicting regular season results as are the ST stats that are “meaningless” for guys who have jobs.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:25 am

“Delainey and Slama were options to gardy”

They weren’t options, shazel. Slama was in A ball, Delaney was promoted to AA during the season. Neither would have fared as well as the options in place last year, if you buy the opinions of the professional evaluatorMost experts would pick Punto over Tolbert also.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:28 am

[The whole “gardy playing faves” theme is the biggest load of crap on this board.]

bop, and I totally buy into it (and occasionaly perpetuate it).

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:28 am

“Delainey and Slama were options to gardy?”

Promotions from High A (Slama) and from High A to AA to an MLB pennant race within two months (Delaney) are very risky.
The kids’ reaction to the Big League stress level alone was an unknown.

What other teams do that?

Even a superstar like Jonathan Papelbon had to prove himself in AAA before getting to MLB.

USAFChief says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am

Guerrier was overworked in 2008, resulting in ineffectiveness, because our starters ran out of gas after the 5th inning. If they can all go 6 innings this year, we won’t need so many good arms in the bullpen.

Guerrier may have been overworked in 2008, but…

can we put to bed this myth that Twins starters worked fewer innings in 2008 than in previous years?

And for that matter, it’s very unlikely Twins starters will work significantly more innings in 2009.

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am

shazel
“I don’t put any merit into Tolbert’s ST stats”
I bet the Twins coaching staff does so I think your of the minority. A .080 batting average while leading your team in at bats gets you noticed slightly. Especially for a guy trying to make the roster. That batting average and OBP will make things a lot easier to figure out his destination unless he picks it up BIG time soon.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:32 am

“But those stats are still just as meaningless when it comes to predicting regular season results as are the ST stats that are “meaningless” for guys who have jobs.”

Guys who have jobs are experimenting.
That’s why their stats are MORE meaningless.

If Tolbert is “experimenting” in his present situation, then he is not very smart. He should be going with that “which got him there”.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am

Chief,
More (high stress) APPEARANCES with fewer days off was Guerrier’s downfall.

werbellik says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am

“I heard that Alex Rodriquez will sometimes fart on his way back to the bench after striking out.”

Do roids make you a better farter? Just wonderin’….

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:37 am

“Do roids make you a better farter? Just wonderin’….”

They give you more thrust at lift-off.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:38 am

This would NEVER be forgiven by any fan base on either coasts.

There was a game in New York in which every starter in the Yankees lineup got a homerun except Rodriquez.

Guess what was the bigger story the next day in the press.

Yeah, let’s NOT be like East Coast fans.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:39 am

It is scapegoating when you look at Guerrier’s losses out of the bullpen and point at him, when you could just as easily look at the hitters who weren’t performing.

Heck, forget the hitters…how about just the OTHER losses out of the bullpen.

Guerrier (or any player really) doesn’t exist within a vacuum.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:40 am

Good stuff and control is what it is and Delaney and Slama have it. It’s not like they’re under the legal drinking age or anything. Could they have done worse than Guerrier? Judging by their stats NO.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:41 am

USAF Chief,
“Do roids make you a better farter? Just wonderin’….”

They give you more thrust at lift-off.

Can I get USAF confirmation on that theory?

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:43 am

Could they have done worse than Guerrier? Judging by their stats NO.

What stats? The MLB career numbers they don’t have?

The “could they have done worse” argument is truly one of the worse. Because unless Guerrier actually lost EVERY SINGLE GAME HE PITCHED IN then YES it could be worse.

werbellik says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am

“They give you more thrust at lift-off.”

sane, that’s what I was afraid of!

USAFChief says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am

Thrust without vector is useless, Sane.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am

Maybe Guerrier had trouble with the pressure last year. When he was doing mop-up work, the games were usually already out of hand when he came in.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am

Thrust without vector is useless…

That’s what sh-*gets stoned to death*

Doc says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am

Don’t know about the flatulent plate appearances, but it used to be funny when I saw my kid’s teammates strike out and RUN back to the dugout like nothing ever happened. Better than throwing the bat I guess.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:46 am

“unless Guerrier actually lost EVERY SINGLE GAME HE PITCHED IN then YES it could be worse.”

His replacement could have failed to retire a single batter….or failed to throw a single strike.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:48 am

in Matt Guerrier’s last 10 appearances last season he pitched 7 innings gave up 9 runs and lost 3 games. If you really believe that the 2 best relief prospects in the organization couldn’t do better than that then people should stop talking about how great our minor league pitching development is.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:49 am

I miss the days when quality arms like Carmen Cali and Julio DePaula were only a phone call away.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:50 am

If you really believe that the 2 best relief prospects in the organization

You do realize that it’s entirely possible that two of the Twins top prospects are currently not MLB ready.

Because that’s how it works with prospects. They could be very high on the list in terms of their evaluation, but that does NOT mean they are ready to jump into the big leagues and start playing.

USAFChief says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:50 am

More (high stress) APPEARANCES with fewer days off was Guerrier’s downfall.

I tend to agree with that, Sane.

My opinion is that the entire bullpen was overworked last year in terms of the number of appearances much more so than the number of innings required.

And that, IMO, was a direct result of the poor performances out of the bullpen that often resulted in multiple relievers being called on to get through an inning, rather than just one.

And quite often even MULTIPLE relievers couldn’t get the job done.

One reason I wanted the Twins to add a Cruz-level talent was to reduce the dependancy on one (or two) relievers to pitch in almost every high-leverage situation. Have two or three guys who you trust to pitch an inning with a one run lead, on the road, to get to Nathan, with less chance you’ll need to ‘assist’ that reliever because he’s come in and put two on with one out.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:53 am

Chief,
“My opinion is that the entire bullpen was overworked last year in terms of the number of appearances much more so than the number of innings required.”

100% agreement!

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:53 am

Well we all seem to agree that Guerrier shouldn’t be one of the guys we use with a 1 run lead on the road? right? Then why keep him at all? Do you guys honestly think he’s more of an asset to this team than Phil Humber? I just don’t understand what you guys want Matt Guerrier to do for the 09 Twins?

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:55 am

Well we all seem to agree that Guerrier shouldn’t be one of the guys we use with a 1 run lead on the road? right? Then why keep him at all?

Because the Twins also need pitchers when the lead is more than 1 or if there happens to be a deficit (I know it sounds odd, but it happens on occasion)

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:56 am

“If you really believe that the 2 best relief prospects in the organization couldn’t do better than that then people should stop talking about how great our minor league pitching development is.”

Great prospects and MLB-ready prospects are separate categories.
Delaney and Slama (and Aaron Hicks) were not MLB-ready last year.
And maybe not yet this year.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:58 am

I haven’t seen, and don’t know enough about, Humber to honestly say he’d be more effective than Guerrier.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 11:58 am

I want Guerrier to do for the ‘09 Twins the same as he did for the’05, ‘06, and ‘07 Twins.

And ‘08 does not prove that he can’t.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

sane is wise.

I am Walter Johnson.

Jeff in So Cal says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

Guerrier isn’t going anywhere real soon anyway with that new contract so get used to it. Up until the end of last year he was a very effective pitcher for the Twins. Lets hope that he bounces back to his earlier form. As for a Slama or a Delaney being called up last year?? That was not going to happen unless they were putting up those numbers at Rochester then that might have been a different story. How many games did it take for Gardy even to get Mijares into a game last year?

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

Your original criticism, shazel, was that Gardy plays favorites, not that the FO screwed up and saddled Gardy with Guerrier instead of Delaney last year.

While I think it would have been foolish to jettison Guerrier in favor of Delaney at any point in time last year, I think that people can argue intelligently that the FO should have given Gardy another option.

The faves thing really annoys me though. Do people really, truly believe that Gardy pick who plays on the basis of who he LIKES? And even if one believes he favors a certain TYPE of player over another, he still has to choose from severely limited options, so those arguments are pretty weak.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

bop, favoritism clouds Gardy’s judgement. I think he truly believes that he is putting the best player out there. Things like “getting after it” (hustle) count more to Gardy. Look at the statements he has made this off season: “Nicky’s my guy [to play SS]”, “Cuddyer definately should start”. Doesn’t that smack of favoritism. I think it shows Gardy often places more value on PAST performances than on PRESENT abilities. That’s why he with Guerrier and Rincon he “kept running them out there”.

ES16 says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Adam Everett just hit a home run for the Tigers.

BC of ND says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

I agree with Walter i think every manager has favorites it’s just human nature.

Columbo says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

WJ,
“Cuddyer definately should start”

Gardy could be right if it’s a start at the Dome:

2008: 130 AB .292/.370/.408 .778 OPS
2007: 267 AB .315/.385/.476 .861 OPS
2006: 281 AB .302/.371/.559 .930 OPS
2005: 221 AB .294/.368/.480 .848 OPS
2004: 161 AB .292/.365/.522 .887 OPS

Or against LHP:
764 AB .283/.371/.441 .812 OPS

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

bop, to clarify my muddled statement above, I don’t think Gardy’s favoritism is based on individual personalities but rather on their qualities as players that go beyond just statistics. That and who goes bowling with him.

I am Walter Johnson.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

Columbo,

And I think most of us are ok now with the idea of Cuddyer starting, at least I am. But when Gardy made the statement, we had Cuddyer either traded away or as 4th OF.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

Look at the statements he has made this off season: “Nicky’s my guy [to play SS]”, “Cuddyer definately should start”. Doesn’t that smack of favoritism.

Here’s the problem, at the end of the day it all comes down to the fans personal opinions. Those cloud their perception just as much as they believe it clouds Gardy.

Why is it Gardy is allowed to compliment Baker, Mauer, or Morneau on a job well done…but he’s immediately playing favorites if he says something about Punto or Cuddyer?

Could it be because Punto and Cuddyer aren’t popular amoung Twins fans?

What about when Morneau was struggling towards the end of the season? Gardy just kept “running him out there”. Nobody seemed to have a problem then. Sure, he did a lot early in the season…but then you’re focusing on his past performance instead of his present success, and thus are playing favorites.

But at the end of the day, the arguments about “playing favorites” are tired. Because they come from some of the same people who do the exact opposite.

The kind of commenter who actually hates Punto MORE when he succeeds because it means he will play more often.

Columbo says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

WJ,
I know what your saying. I just have to counter some of the comments that were made about him on the blogs earlier this spring.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

WJ, bop,

I also feel Gardy has favorites.

That’s because he (and all other coaches) have favorite ATTRIBUTES.

What any coach (Gardy included) values, is different from what other coaches value.
When he sees “IT” in a player, he more highly values that player.

And the rest of us are likely to disagree, because we value different attributes in our favorite players.

What Gardy values as a coach, is likely what he valued as a player, and what he worked at (with limited success) to acquire as a player.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

But when Gardy made the statement, we had Cuddyer either traded away or as 4th OF.

At that time we had also traded Span and Slowey to Colorado for Atkins and Street…as well as Perkins (or Blackburn) to the Mariners for Beltre.

In fact, we had signed Blake to play 3B for three years around then too.

It’s a good thing the Twins don’t listen to us, or else we’d be drowning in thirdbaseman (and a tad short on pitching)

USAFChief says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

RE: Punto.

I don’t think he’s a particularly good or valuable MLB player.

I also think when Gardy puts Punto in the lineup, it’s because Punto is generally the best option Gardy has at that time.

If there’s blame to be placed regarding Punto, it should be directed at the GM, rather than at Gardy, or Punto.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

When the Twins approached Gardy to extending his contract Gardy didn’t care about the money he said I gotta do it my way with my guys. I heard him say it in an interview. That tells you right there that he plays favorites.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

Because we’re such reasonable and intelligent people, we agree, WJ and T, that Gardy has biases based on attributes he values. Like bowling. And people with pictures of him in compromising sexual scenarios with larger farm animals.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

Gardy lobbied for them to sign Nick Punto as their SS. He did this so he has an excuse to do what he’s wanted to do for some time…make weak LNP our starting SS. Punto is a good utility player.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

That tells you right there that he plays favorites.

You’re right, he does. And out of the 6 billion people in the world he’s the only one that does.

Ever.

Congrats, you found him.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

USAFChief,
“I also think when Gardy puts Punto in the lineup, it’s because Punto is generally the best option Gardy has at that time.”

I agree, but Gardy has probably contributed to that situation.

FO: “Is Punto good enough to be your regular SS?”

Gardy: “Yes.”

FO: “Ok, then we will re-sign Punto and try to sign a FA third-baseman.”

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

I get the feeling shazel doesn’t even know what he’s arguing about anymore. I thought this all started with something about Guerrier but then it meandered to Punto and now we’re somewhere on Gardy.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

“I gotta do it my way with my guys.”

With that kind of argument, shazel, you must be calling for Obama’s impeachment.

Or were you joking?

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

Gardy wants Punto to start and Guerrier to come in in presure situations because his secret agenda (forced on him by the FO and Owners) is to field a team that will win the division but is not strong enough to make a push in the playoffs. To me, THAT is the “biggest load of crap on this board”.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

I retract my earlier statement and yield to the gentleman named WJ.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

No WJ: I’m starting to believe that. The goal is to just miss the playoffs, so that the players are unable to use any postseason success a bargaining chip for contract negotiations.

Once the Twins get through the 09/10 offseason (and have locked up those arbitration players that they want to keep), then they will then hit the “Off” button on the conspiracy and allow them to rattle off three straight World Series championships.

After that, they will let them all walk and start the process over with a new batch of youngsters.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

I think shazel was originally attacking in a two-pronged offensive simultaneously on the Guerrier Front and the Punto Front.

Two-front warfare is often difficult to manage, but he’s doin’ OK.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

I promised the other day that I would NEVER bring politics back on any sports blogs.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

To Adam:

yea Crede is already a Twin on the game, it is pretty up to date.

How often do they do roster updates? Just the once after Spring Training? The last baseball game I played was on the PS2 and appeared to use the PREVIOUS seasons rosters going in to it.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

WJ,
Its human nature to want to finish 2nd.

Bridesmaid is a good job, too.

Just compete, never try to win…Isn’t that how everyone feels?

No?

You are right Walter, “THAT is the “biggest load of crap on this board”.”

BC of ND says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

I think T needs a vacation from Twins baseball for awhile.

shazel says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

I think this team will be just fine with Punto at SS. But he’s not the best we could do for 4 mil. IMO. Guerrier I really think is the next Rincon if we keep him. IMO Humber can be as good as Garza or Slowey. He really began to show his old dominating ways at the end of last season.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

Two-front warfare is often difficult to manage, but he’s doin’ OK.

Two-front wars tend to work out pretty well if you only attempt to extend one front at a time.

However I feel that he’s pushing his troops too far into Guerrieristan while also trying to maintain a long running (and quite truthfully deadend) assault on Puntopia.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

Thank you for that shazel.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

shazel,
“I promised the other day that I would NEVER bring politics back on any sports blogs”

And you have my eternal gratitude for that decision.

And my request that everyone else follow that lead.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

I think T needs a vacation from Twins baseball for awhile.

Are you kidding? The first locally televised game of 09 is on Saturday. I’m just as ready for the season to start as ever.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

T,

Add Buschertina to Puntopia and Guerrieristan and you have this blog’s evil empire.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

T, sane: You know, last season was about as perfect a season as we could have had. We BOTH finished at the top of our division (after 162 games) AND didn’t make the playoffs.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

shazel,

If you keep using “IMO” and “I think”, you will be amazed at the new-found tolerance for your opinions.

Fear of steam-rollers is common among us blog posters.

BC of ND says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

Ok T then I hope you were just joking about the losing on pupose conspiracy.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

WJ,

Last year was close to a disaster.

We ALMOST WON THE DAMN THING!!!

I thought they were going to deviate from the plan to finish second.

Thank God that the Twins hitters stepped up to the plate (and laid an egg) in game #163.

BC of ND says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

“Thank God that the Twins hitters stepped up to the plate (and laid an egg) in game #163.”

No kidding and that stupid kid Blackburn almost blew it doing his version of Shoeless Joe Jackson.

birdofprey says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

I hate that stupid kid Blackburn.

sane says:

March 13th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

BC of ND,

They forgot to let Blackburn in on the plan.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

Liriano and Morneau knew the score. Everett did not. Mijares was allowed to see action at the end to throw off suspicion of those who were getting too close to the truth.

Walter Johnson says:

March 13th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

La Velle has a new post.

TGIF

I am Walter Johnson.

T says:

March 13th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

Thank God that the Twins hitters stepped up to the plate (and laid an egg) in game #163.

Did you see the fear in Cuddyer’s eyes when he thought AJ had dropped the ball after they collided at the plate?

First Pick Sports » Blog Archive » Mariners Sign Chad Cordero says:

March 13th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

[…] typical recovery time would put Cordero on track to pitch in April or May, barring setbacks.  Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune says the Twins believe Cordero still has a ways to […]