Postgame: Gardenhire on Liriano and RISP
Posted on June 17th, 2009 – 11:04 PMBy Joe Christensen
What a clunker. With Detroit’s loss, the Twins missed a chance to pull within one game of first place in the AL Central tonight, as they fell to Pittsburgh 8-2.
Andy and Adam LaRoche became the first brothers to hit a home run in the same game for the Pirates since Lloyd and Paul Waner last did it on Sept. 13, 1938. (The Waners did it three times.)
The Twins finished 1-for-10 with runners in scoring position, including costly at-bats by Delmon Young and Jason Kubel with a runner on third base and less than two outs.
I focused my game story on Francisco Liriano’s repeated struggles the second time through the batting order. But Liriano does have a 3.79 ERA over his past three starts with no wins to show for it.
“You see light out there because he’s actually doing OK,” Manager Ron Gardenhire said. “He got through the seventh inning — four runs, two bad pitches — and gave us an opportunity to get back in the game. We just missed a lot of chances. Some really poor at-bats. First-pitch swinging with a man on third, tapping it back to the mound, that’s just not going to cut it.”
Head to La Velle’s blog for Thursday’s starting lineups (first pitch: 12:10 p.m.), as the Twins try to win the series behind Nick Blackburn, who has a 1.80 ERA in his past five starts.
55 Responses to "Postgame: Gardenhire on Liriano and RISP"
costly at-bats by Delmon Young and Jason Kubel with a runner on third base and less than two outs.
How about “costly base-running error by
Cuddyer on third base”?
Liriano could be a very good eighth inning
pitcher. I don’t know why they do not consider this.
Was at the game tonight and it could have been a lot worse for Liriano.
The Pirates were hitting the ball pretty square and had some blasts just shy of HRs or extra bases. I felt like it was a matter of time before they connected on a couple.
Gomez’s catch early in the game where he chased in down in center was unbelievable as he was sitting pretty shallow…not sure how it looked on TV.
Crappy game to sit through nonetheless but tomorrow is another day. Take the series!
Walter, sure Cuddyer’s baserunning at third was not great, but it certainly didn’t cost the Twins a run that inning like Young’s poor AB at the plate did. Cuddyer was able to get in a rundown for long enough so that Young wound up at second and the next hitter was Gomez. He did not get a hit there, so I am not exactly sure how you figure Cuddyer’s baserunning error was worse than Young’s poor AB.
Yay, it’s bash Cuddyer time. Not much difference between man on third and 2 out and man on 2nd and 2 out. He thought the ball was gonna clear the pitcher. It was a mistake. Players make mistakes. Get over it.
When you’re on third and they put the “go on contact” play on, that’s what you do. If the guy bounces one to the pitcher, you’re screwed. Looked to me like that’s what happened.
If Young had hit a ground ball to the SS and Cuddyer had waited until the ball got by the pitcher and, as a result, he’d gotten thrown out at home, all we’d hear about is how he didn’t get a good jump.
Jim, ya gotta make sure the ball gets past the pitcher in that situation. Looked to me on the replay like Cuddyer wasn’t off on contact anyway.
Regardless, pretty poor AB by Delmon.
And I didn’t see much from Liriano’s performance to be encouraged about. Not much velocity, not much snap on the slider, not much command.
I missed the game tonight.
Nobody’s talking about Henn. WTH happened to him?
He threw 17 pitches with only 6 for strikes. 3 ER’s in 1/3 inning total pitched.
There’s your loss.
I loved the fact he made sure to point out the fact Harris dropped that ball… you know there are times that you don’t have to point out plays like that, the players do know it.
henn got an out, gave up a solo HR, then two walks. got yanked for ayala, who gave up a double i believe that scored the 2 inherited.
we had a crappy bullpen, Crain included. we still have a crappy bullpen, Crain excluded, with no replacement.
we have 3 catchers, awesome!
anyway, we won 8-2, then we lost 2-8; both teams scored 10 and gave up 10.
blackburn tomorrow, win the series!
lol. cuddyer sucks… you bloggers are stupid.
Liriano needs to go to the pen. Bring up Swarzak, send Henn down.
Anyone who thinks Cuddyer sucks doesn’t know much about baseball.
I prefer the term BlogWorld denizen thank you very much.
I would say if we are going to win the division we need to make a run at it soon. But maybe the central division is so average, that 83 games will win it, like it did for the Cardinals a few years back.
Henn and Ayala were both terrible.
Kubel can’t hit lefties.
What I’m really wondering is where has Morneau gone for the last week?
“What I’m really wondering is where has Morneau gone for the last week?”
he’s 10-for-33 in his last 8 games.
perhaps it’s time for someone else on the club to hit over .400 for a stretch…
Over the last week Morneau is hitting .240/.270/.270.
On that play where Cuddyer went for it, I only blame Delmon Young. TAKE A PITCH……ah, who cares. I don’t think he’s interested in learning how to be a productive hitter. At least Gomez is showing some signs that he is eager to learn and improve.
I again ask, how…I mean how in this world did Delmon Young tally 93 RBI’s for the Rays??? How did that happen???
My bad - .240/.270/.240.
the entire sub .500 season can be blamed on delmon. every thing wrong with this team starts with him.
he needs to be traded so the complainers can move on to the next guy and he may have a chance to improve his game on a new team.
Any guesses for today’s Twins lineup?
I’m thinking something like this:
R harris SS
L mauer DH
L morneau 1B
R cuddyer RF
L kubel LF
R crede 3B
R redmond C
R gomez CF
S tolbert 2B
Adam, I think you’re right on if you swap Tolbert for Punto.
It’s maddening from a fan’s perspective to watch someone like Delmon Young who repeatedly does not take advice from his coaches, and yet he still plays. Either he listens to the coaches or he sits. Am I missing something?
“I again ask, how…I mean how in this world did Delmon Young tally 93 RBI’s for the Rays??? How did that happen???”
for tampa he hit mosting in the 5 spot more chances there. with the twins he has spent most of his time in the 6,7 & 8 spot less chances. even as bad a start as he has had he is driving in runs per at bat at a higher rate than cuddy and also leaving less runners on per at bat. as poor as his season has been with risp he has actually been better than several other who don’t get all the heat.
still think it’s best for both the team and him that a trade happens.
My guess:
CF Gomez
DH Mauer
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
SS Harris
LF Young
C Redmond
2B Punto
3B Tolbert
If Gardy is going to call out brain farts and mistakes by Young and Harris, it would behoove him to mention those by Cuddyer and Kubel. That kind of thing just doesn’t seem to register for Gardy.
All of Delmon’s troubles arise from his utter lack of plate discipline. The result: 5 walks and 53 strikeouts. Being so aggressive may have worked in his first couple years but since then, pitcher’s have adjusted and he has not.
shame on you birdofprey. didn’t you read this:
“Anyone who thinks Cuddyer sucks doesn’t know much about baseball.”
I’ve heard people talk about the bombs DY hits in batting practice. I’ve never seen it, but a guy that big should have no trouble hitting for power. Something’s happening between batting practice and the games, and it’s not just the difference between batting practice pitching and real pitchers. Even the balls he hits to the outfield are weak. Gardy and Vavra should tell him to try to hit a home run every time he swings the bat. I know this sounds opposite of what most people are suggesting, but he needs to swing from his a$$ and try to kill the ball.
ES16, part of the reason Delmon can hit those bombs in BP but not in a game situation is that real pitchers know to throw the ball down and out of the strike zone to him.
Right, ES. He’s striking out 10 to 1 (walks) anyway, may as well go out with a bang instead of a whimper.
Agree with birdofprey’s 8:52 post. That selective calling out of players is my only major gripe with Gardy.
It’s hard for me to point to any one or two players in an 8-2 loss. I guess you could argue that things would have been different had player(s) X executed play Y properly, but at some point you just have to pin the loss on the team.
You guys are just inviting T98 to come in here with his pro-Delmon stats, aren’t you? 
Just straight up wasn’t a good game for the offense last night. Nothing more, nothing less.
The huge deflater was the bases loaded in the 7th and not getting anything out of it. All the energy was gone from that point forward.
It’s the little things that make a difference.
Getting that runner trying to stretch a single into a double leading off right after the Twins tied it up with two out in the bottom of their last at bat, that’s huge. But, our shortstop (who can hit some, field some, but not enough of either, really) didn’t make that play. Most shortstops would have, every good shortstop would surely have. Then a bad pitch with two out in that inning, and that play gets magnified.
Taking good at bats and giving a good effort to get runners home from 3rd with less than two out (Delmon, no; Kubel, ok, he just got beat by a pitcher having a good moment) is another little piece of it.
Failure upon failure. Little things, tacked on, one on top of the other, and before you know it you’re 70 or 80 games into the season and still scratching your head wondering why your boys are struggling along at .500. Do the little things right, almost all of the time, and .500 is in your rear view mirror.
It isn’t only talent, however, that requires of the players that they do the little things right. Management comes into that, because saying “that doesn’t cut it” and DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT but continuing to write that players’ name in the lineup game after game sends a message. Sitting that player down (how about Kubel, Gomez, & Cuddyer in the OF today, Ronnie?) sends a message, too. And when Span comes back, give him LF, where he belongs, and let Kubel play 4th OF. Move DY. Please. Soon.
Win Twins.
Hart
quit giving homers to amos and andy would have helped also.
R redmond C
I hope: S Morales C
bop,
what got into you? You are calling out Gardy?
I hope we see Morales too. I just didn’t want to set myself up for disappointment!
Tolbert will be at 3rd today w/ Punto at 2nd……..Wake up.
We got Roche’d……………..
I dont think Gardy picks on any certain players in his opinion that missed tag by Harris was the turning point in the game and i agree. Is Harris entirely to blame for the loss? No but it was the turning point.
I’d like to see Buscher at 3B. Highest walk rate on the team, lots of line drives (LD% ~ 20) but poor luck (BABIP = .246). And his playing time has been jerked around (by necessity with Crede). Too many strikeouts, but that will happen to anyone w/o consistent PAs.
Buscher + LHP = Bench
I’m confused at gobbledygookguy’s numbers…where did you find numbers to suggest Delmon has more RBI per at bat than Cuddyer? It’s not even close. In fact, there is not one offensive category in which Cuddyer is behind Young. Not that facts matter in the comment section. Especially if someone doesn’t like Cuddyer.
but poor luck (BABIP = .246).
Unlike pitcher’s BABIP that indicates luck, batter’s BABIP indicates ability.
Well if BABIP indicates ability, how to explain the 100 point drop between ‘08 and ‘09 for Buscher? BABIP alone don’t say much, but coupled with line drive % it says something. For instance, Delmon Young has a BABIP of .373 despite hitting a smaller % of line drives. Does that sound like it is ability driven?
it’s just to bad that the team couldn’t play like gardy did in his day we’d be in the world series every year. every at bat was agood one, every play in the field made.
Versus LHP, I can see Buscher on the bench, but not in favor of Tolbert. If Crede is to catch a spell, I’ll take Buscher anyday, regardless of what arm the pitcher throws with.
BTW: the Zach Duke splits are the opposite of what one would expect. Lefties hit .346 while righties hit .237 this year. The career splits aren’t as drastic (.288 vs lefties, .321 vs righties) but far from daunting.
Butcher has no business being in the starting line-up.
Tell me again what the appeal of Tolbert at 3rd is (presuming Crede gets the day off)? A slight upgrade defensively? That’s all I can find.
tolbert is fast fast fast as a cheetah OB. defensive upgrade? not so much.
“batter’s BABIP indicates ability”
I think that you really meant that “batter’s BABIP indicates performance level”.
If a hitter with A+ ability is in a funk, the batter’s BABIP will reflect the funk, not his “ability”.
What’s with the Tolbert love? He’s a horrible hitter and barely a serviceable fielder. Oh, and he’s four years older than Gomez and Young.
You can pick your nose, but you cant pick Delmon Youngs nose!!! Go deli lots of ham and cheese Young- Go (time to totally thwart any kind of rally) Young, Go (gonna make a routine play in left look acrobatic because I am lost) young, and lastly go Bill Smith, nice trade, we got fleeced!!!!!!! Tell YOung either you listen to our coaches or we cut you. thats it! pretty simple! go be a headcase somewhere else, eat the trade and realize it is a bust and get rid of him.
