Postgame update: Perkins, and an 0-fer against NY
Posted on July 9th, 2009 – 4:30 PMBy Joe Christensen
Glen Perkins remains questionable for Saturday’s start. Manager Ron Gardenhire said Perkins was checked for strep throat today and given medication that should have him feeling better within a couple days.
Nick Blackburn will pitch Friday against the White Sox, and Gardenhire said the Twins will need Brian Duensing ready in relief. If Perkins can’t pitch Saturday and Duensing isn’t needed Friday, Duensing could get the ball on Saturday.
R.A. Dickey threw 33 pitches today after throwing 53 on Tuesday, so he’s probably not an option to start Saturday, Gardenhire said.
0-for-7 against the Yankees
The Twins never led in this series. They finished 0-7 against the Yankees. Four of those losses were by one run, and two were by two runs.
“Not a mental block; they just outplayed us,” Gardenhire said. “I think if you witnessed the games in Yankee Stadium, we had chances to win, and it’s not a mental block there, it’s one base hit. Here, they were just hot.”
Bring on the White Sox
With the White Sox coming in next, the Twins don’t have time to feel sorry for themselves.
“We were charged up going into this series, and it didn’t work out,” Gardenhire said. “We have to go out and perform, and we didn’t perform very well against this team. The White Sox are playing very good baseball, so if we go out and play like we did against the Yankees, we’ll probably get our butts kicked here at home again, and that’s not too much fun.
“We have to make things happen. We have to create havoc, and we didn’t do too much of that in this series at home, and that’s not supposed to happen.”
95 Responses to "Postgame update: Perkins, and an 0-fer against NY"
The Yankees “were just hot”.
Glad it wasn’t due to any failures by the Twins. I feel alot better about what went down the last three days.
If the Rockies are the front runner for Sanchez do you think they’d let us have a crack at Clint Barmes? I guess their not satisfied with a second baseman with only 10 homers and batting .285 or so. Sheesh.
agreed. Where’s the accountability?
It sure would be nice to have Sanchez in the lineup instead of what has been an automatic out all year with Punto/Tolbert.
Can some stat guy come up with Gardy’s record on Thursday afternoon game?
These should not include games he forefeited like today
Dear Manager: I realize it’s sort of like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, but…you do realize that the #2 hitter bats more often than the #3 hitter over a season, right? And the #3 hitter, more than #4? Would it kill you to reconsider the need to shoehorn a poor hitter into the top of the lineup?
Dear GM: Emerge from your winter hibernation, and make a decision. Either:
A) Make the 2009 team better, through some bold and savvy acquisitions, and go for it, or
B) Try to learn something about the 2010 season, which would mean, at a mimimum,
- Casilla at second base, full time, for the rest of the season. I don’t think Casilla is the answer to any question I want asked, but I know Punto isn’t an answer. Punto is a sunk cost, you blew it…deal with it. He might even be an asset as a futility infielder. At least over the winter you’ll have a better idea about Casilla.
- Both Gomez and Young play, full time, for the rest of the season. To do that, you’ll either need to move Cuddyer or send Gomez to AAA. Your call. But whatever happens, Gomez and Young play every day, somewhere, and start providing clues about the future. You traded Johan Santana and Matt Garza to get them…let’s find out how bad those trades really are. I don’t think you even know right now…how could you know?
- Look hard for an arm or two that will help the bullpen next year and beyond. If that means it costs you Cuddyer, well that would suck, yeah, but see above.
- Sign Mauer.
- While you’re at it, stick some money away so you can find us a shortstop, thirdbaseman, and maybe a second baseman over the winter. (See also losing Cuddyer’s salary.)
You’re currently treading water, with a nice core, but too many holes.
Make a decision.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
USAFChief
this is the time to make some moves…starting pitching and and 2 hole hitter are big needs on this club and if its not addressed you can kiss this season goodbye right after the all-star break….it will be ..wait til next year…big deal…someone please wake up bill smith…
How long can Gardy continue to go with an 11-man pitching staff?
I don’t want to hear the “we were one hit away” nonsense. The Yankees were also one hit away from complete blowouts.
There is a mental block, and it starts with Gardy’s constant preaching that the team cannot make any mistakes against the Yankees. I never hear such preaching when the Twins play their divisional rivals. Gardy is scared of the Yankees.
USAFChief -
Or, there is option 3. Try and win with what you have. Realize that you are only 4 games back with 3 more to go before the All-Star Break. As someone pointed out before, the Twins only have 7 games left against the East - 4 at Toronto and 3 versus Baltimore. Chicago has 21 games against the East (6 Balt, 4 TB, 7 NYY, and 4 Bos) and Detroit has 22 (4 Balt, 7 TB, 3 NYY, 4 Bos, and 4 Tor).
The Twins have outscored their opponents more than either the Tigers or White Sox. Or the fact that the Twins have 5 more games left against central foes than Detroit, and 10 more than Chicago. Not to mention games against each other.
I’d love to see the Twins add an impact player. But I also love to see the Twins competitive year after year. If you can get someone like Sanchez without giving up a significant player, then by all means, do it. But I don’t agree with the ‘go for broke’ attitude that many posters have. Terry Ryan and Bill Smith have created a team that is competitive year after year. They did it by refusing to trade prospects for ‘rent-a-players’, and by dealing veterans near free agency for young players. And it’s been pretty successful, and I see no real reason to change it.
Fully agree, USAFChief, and I would vote for looking ahead with a long-term view as opposed to mortgaging the future (whether via trading prospects, taking on new contracts or continuing to let young players sit) in a year when we might be able to win the division but nothing else.
but but chief we have some guys in a or maybe aa possibly rookie ball that might someday come up and fill all those needs you outlined.
i think this fits, my dad used to say either sh** or get off the pot. it may apply to old teddy bear smith who just woke up from his winter nap.
Or, there is option 3. Try and win with what you have
Yes, that’s an option. And it’s likely the one Bill Smith ‘chooses.’ Action through inaction…sounds familiar.
But if your strategy is “well, we’ve gotten our arses handed to us by the real teams, hopefully the rest of the also-rans get drilled as well,” then I question whether or not you’re really committed to winning.
If you can get someone like Sanchez without giving up a significant player, then by all means, do it.
Yeah, see, that’s the deal. Those other teams have this nasty habit of actually wanting something back in return for their significant players.
Terry Ryan and Bill Smith have created a team that is competitive year after year
Are they? Competitive? They last made the postseason in 2006. Before that, 2004.
This year they’re 43-43. Season is more than half over. That looks a lot more like ‘mediocre’ than ‘competitive’ to me. You may disagree.
Let’s get off the pot, gobble. While I haven’t checked recently, I think that we still need to plan for arbitration fun (i.e., significantly higher salaries) with Gomez, Guerrier, Harris, Liriano, Perkins and Young (and Crain, Bonser and Neshek) after this year. Plus, we’ve got the Joe signing to worry about. IMHO, we can’t afford $8m for an extra year of guys like Sanchez, particularly when we don’t have the other horses necessary to advance in the playoffs.
“We have to create havoc”
That is a joke.
With Span, Gomez, Punto, Tolbert and Casilla (at one time)on the roster, the Twins are LAST IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE in STOLEN BASES with 41.
Gardy, my man, there will be no havoc, because you have no heuevos.
Gardy, my man, there will be no havoc, because you have no heuevos.
I don’t know, sane, I saw Kubel get caught stealing recently…
USAF Chief has it correct. Of course you try to improve your team “if’ you can, but you have to have a long-term goal. The Twins are in the race every year because they plan to be there.
The schedule now begins to favor the Twins unless you think that Detroit and Chicago will dominate the Yankees, Rays, and Boston. In that case it would not matter as they are just much better than the Twins.
I think not !!!
Stephen
I fully agree with Pete D. The Twins managment has created a consistently winning team for a number of years now, by developing and not trading away young talent. They’ve made some clunker decisions the last few years (Hernandez, Ponson, the Bartlett/Garza trade). But, a fundamental philosophy of trading away the future for the present feeds on itself until you have a mess of an organization.
I saw one blogger suggest offering Revere, Morales, Blackburn, and someone else for Halladay. Sure, we can salivate about having Halladay, but a philosophy of doing that kind of thing will decimate the farm system fast. A few years from now everyone would be whining “the Twins have done a horrible job developing talent.”
Problem is you have to get on base to steal and the only one doing either with any regularity is Span. That is the problem.
Whatever the Twins do or don’t do you can be sure someone will be upset ablout it. LOL
Sssdave,
Don’t look now, but the farm system isn’t in that great of shape now. Who do we have that we could bring up to make an immediate impact? Why not trade some “potential” for a solid proven major leaguer that would help us not just get to the playoffs, but actually advance beyond the first round?
Yes, that farm system has won how many playoff series since 1991? You have to be nearly perfect in drafting and developing to refuse to trade to fill in gaps with MLB or near MLB players. Like, not drafting stiffs year after year in the 90’s, for example. You have to make good/great trades when you make them (which they failed at, miserably, the last two tries).
Yup, the Yankees, Phils, St Louis, Red Sox, Angels, White Sox, Detroit all have it wrong. Signing FAs, trading for players, stupid, stupid, stupid teams.
A good hitter that can play 2b would go a longggggg way toward the playoffs. Sanchez or Barmes anyone? Adding contract for a hitter can be lessened through trades or releases during the off season. Remember, the new ballpark should be a cash cow next year. I can easily see 3 million fans next season, especially if we win division this year. Send GoGo down until he learns to hit & even save some arbitration money as a bonus. We have 5 starters & Swarzak in waiting. If we are willing to trade one of those 6, we should have little problem getting value back. Just make the right decision which one you trade. Yes sir, Mr. Smith there are plenty of moves available to you during the all star break to jump start the team in the 2nd half. DO SOMETHING & we can look forward meeting the Yankees in the playoffs.
what a bunch of saps, no one pitches, they barely hit, ooooohhhhhh its the big bad yankees we better just lay down early and let them steam roll us. as much as i hope for liriano he will not become a better pitcher that he is now and that aint gonna cut it folks way to inconsistent, package him for some thing ,someone they need, his slider now is only average most of the time his fastball too and he is not a pitcher,this guy was born to do it with the electric stuff we saww two years ago if it dont come back and it almost certainly will not either will liriano he will be hanging in at the 4 or 5 spot in this or any rotation. we need more and sadly will not see it i believe from liriano now or in the future tough break for him when he went down
just a thought i dont see as many games as most of you all probably do but god punto is dismal at the plate i will not react again to the negative press on him any more he is only a utility fielder and excellent in that role maybe getting 150 at bats in a year but my god no more please
a bunch of wierd posts again.
11 man staff isn”t keeping them from winning.
Gardy has no huevos?
Twins can”t afford a contract like Sanchez.
Did someone get into the front office.
Team needs a #2 hitter, ideally 2nd base and Tolbert send down. Punto back to a reserve fill in role.
Plus, rest Cuddyer.
Win Twins!
Chief:
- Casilla at second base, full time, for the rest of the season.
They did that last year, and the assessment at the time was “Ready to Go”. That turned into “Dang it he’s a headcase again” as 2009 started playing out.
I don’t think Casilla’s the answer. Not unless he can get over whatever brainfarts he has that apparently came back from 2006.
ooooohhhhhh its the big bad yankees we better just lay down early and let them steam roll us.
They lost 4 games by one run, another game by 2 runs, and only actually got rolled over once.
Remind me again how they laid down?
The Twins big guns were 0′fer in key situations in the last two games. Morneau was 0 for 10. With the exception of Mauer Span and Kubel, the rest are undiciplined hackers, and that includes Justin. That’s what the Twins brain trust wants. This past week Span said that the Twins coaches told him to be more aggresive in his at bats, less patient. When Kubel first came up he was told the same thing. The Yankees just got done schooling us on what professional at bats can do for you. The Twins MGR and coaches must have missed the lessons supplied by New York, Boston etc over the last few years.
I don’t think Casilla’s the answer either, T. Never did.
But I KNOW Punto’s not a full time answer, anywhere. At least by playing Casilla for a half year, they might know more about him than they do now. Let him have a half season without looking over his shoulder to settle some questions. What I don’t want them to do is give Casilla 75 ABs in September, have him have a hot week, and the Twins decide he’s the answer for 2010 based on that. Only to find out next May they still need a second baseman.
Twins can”t afford a contract like Sanchez.
Yes they can. Easily.
0-for-7 against a team, regardless of what the scores were, is being dominated.
The Yankees didn’t play perfect. They were pretty sloppy too. But the Twins mucked up some great opportunities that I don’t believe they would have mucked up against any other team, except maybe the Red Sox.
“”"Benny W says:
July 9th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
0-for-7 against a team, regardless of what the scores were, is being dominated.”"”
Then Boston is dominating the Yankees so far. 8-0.
the pirates are almost begging to trade sanchez, the way it sounds, and the rockies are the closest according to mlb but my god the twins could get him if they only would find an aggresive bone in their system….we have all kinds of prospects and young arms that are availabe- we should easily be able to package some kind of deal to add such a player as sanchez …never has such a pergect fit for a twins need been available as this guy is, it will be an absolute shame to let him get away- i dont want to hear that we cant afford him or his contract is too strong- we need to get to the playoffs and this kid could go along ways in helping us get there….oh yes , we also need some pitching after that deal is made….get busy bill, the night is still young and i dont want to see the rockies celebrating their new player….
My 2 cents. Punto, Tobert and Casilla are are around the 200 at 2nd. That doesn’t cut it. If they don’t want to spend any real money in, let’s say Sanchez, why don’t give an opportunity to Tolleson?
How come there is all this talk about Casilla. He has had his chances. Give Tolleson or someone else a chance. Tolleson has done just as good as Casilla with better power and just as good of D-Fence.
affording players better not be an issue any more now that we have a new stadium, and to play it cash short and leave a terrific core of talent short of what the team needs to win over the next few years while morneau and mauer are in their prime would just be stupid. extend the g-damn payroll and be a big league ownership making intelligent and bold additions to the team to make them play off worthy over this next several years
People: We Dont Have Prospects To Trade! Every team, when looking to make a deal, wants MLB ready pitching. We Have None in our farm system right now. None. Zero. None. I don’t know if I can make it any more clear.
DrDon, that’s great for Boston. They’re a much better team than the Twins.
All that tells me is that the Yankees are not as good as the Twins believe them to be.
Simple fixes to this team, which has its window of opportunity RIGHT NOW, not in a year or two or three: Play to win NOW!
1.) No more putting Go-Go and Punto in this line-up. No contender ANYWHERE would be playing these stiffs. Put Delmon in LF and let’s see what he can do. Go-go goes to AAA, where he belongs. Either trade for a 2B or call up Casilla. Neither can be as bad as Punto, the offensive cancer.
2.) Retire Redmond right now, and give him a coaching job somewhere. It’s time for the much better Jose Morales to play twice a week.
3.) Have the guts to finally fire Ron Gardenhire today! This guy’s a joke, and I can’t believe anyone would defend him. (He’s 18-49 in his career against a team that hasn’t won a World Championship since before his managerial tenure!) He simply gets out-managed damn near every night, and he’s wasting precious talent in their prime by playing childish favoritism. The truth is, whether any fans wants to admit it, this team gets better instantly if it’s put in the hands of someone more deserving. And, like Jacques Lemaire amditted, there comes a time when your team begins to tune you out, after you’ve been around too long. That time is upon us.
4.) For Christ sake, Billy, get off your inflamed butt and fix the bullpen. It doesn’t matter how many assets you have in the organization if you’re never willing to deal them to get better. In fact, you only waste those assets if you don’t trade them when young and upcoming instead of broken down and has-beens. (Phillip Humber anyone?)
This team owns the Twin Cities right now. But assuming the Vikings make a run with Favre and the Wild becomes a power under new management, the Twins will become back-page news and will have wasted their opportunities by always playing for tomorrow.
It’s time, Billy. Are you a real GM (as in managing the Major League roster), or are you just another stooge?
Apologies if anybody else said this already above but this season sweep by the Yanks has left me too wiped out to read all your comments before I make mine.
Gardenhire’s quote out-does even anything else moronic he has ever said or done. It’s not surprising that he can’t see that his team has a problem with the mental side of their game whenever the opponents are the Yankees because obviously it starts right with him…he has always been awestruck with any and everything Yankees. Is this due to an inferiority complex since he’s a former Met??
I thought it was very interesting that Bobby Keppel (oh where was this guy earlier in the season???? sub him for Crain/Ayala and we would be in first place right now!!!) and Swarzak didn’t seem as over-awed as the manager or some of their team mates by the Bombers. Baker and Liriano pitched like they were standing on eggshells. Keppel threw it over pretty well and just said OK, even if you are a Yank, go try and hit it. I liked that Swarzak used the ol’ they put their pants on…etc. observation in his interview. He’s the rookie and he’s the one saying hey they’re just ballplayers like me, why should I be afraid or awed by them.
WTF, even the NATS were able to beat the Yankees!!! There’s no doubt that nearly half of the Twins lineup is either suspect or plainly dismal at the plate but for G’s sake, are they really worse than the Nats??????!!!!!!
There seems to be no middle ground on these blogs re the management and FO. You either love them or you want a clean sweep.
I have my broom in hand:
Smith — how many millions in contract money have the Twins “eaten” due to his ill-advised signings of washed up players, e.g. Lamb, Ayala, etc.? Enough to sign someone who’s still able to contribute meaningfully, i.e. ODog, Sanchez???
Manager — how does it happen that he “dislikes” and disses players who then go to other teams and turn into gems!!! e.g. Bartlett, even Romero and Lohse.
Anderson — how does it happen that your top two pitchers, including your so-called ace and the one thought to be the ace, would regress so badly compared to 2008?? Throw in one of the other guys in the rotation who has also not improved.
Manager and Hitting Coach — yes, we all yelled for more power but what happened to small ball?? Does it have to be just one or the other rather than a melding of the two…many other teams in baseball have combined both rather than just one or the other. Notice the Yanks hit a lot of bloops and soft shots while our guys hit laser shots right at someone standing right there???
Does anyone on this team, except for an occasional sneak ambush from Mauer, still know how to bunt?? Why is it only Mauer, and occasionally Span, understands the concept of what the opposing pitcher is trying to do to you with his pitch sequence?? I mean can you have an uglier at bat than Cuddyer’s with sacks packed yesterday?? On the flip side of course all of baseball knows that Twins pitchers hate to issue walks, throw lots of strikes, and unfortunately seem to have a hard time sinking those pitches except for Blackie (too bad he didn’t pitch against the Yanks, he seems to be a good, tough competitor).
Time for changes.
“There’s no doubt that nearly half of the Twins lineup is either suspect or plainly dismal at the plate but for G’s sake, are they really worse than the Nats??????!!!!!!”
Take Nathan, Mauer and Morneau off the roster, and you are left with the Nats.
Liriano wasn’t afraid of the Yankees, that’s how he has pitched this year. In his 19 starts, he’s given up 4 or more runs 10 times. This isn’t about fear, it’s about not being all that good.
Nothing has changed with this team - they have 3 great players, some very good players, some good players, and some terrible players. Their holes are the same as they were at the end of last year - 2B, SS, 3B (on O), LF/CF (wherever Young or Gomez plays).
They aren’t winning the WS this year. Time to do as JimC said - stop playing for the middle. Either play to win now, or play to win in the future. Either trade for Sanchez (who, btw, is signed for next year also - it’s not a 3 month deal), put Liriano in the pen, put SPan in left and Gomez in center, or cut bait. If you cut bait, you need to see what Delmon can/cannot do playing every day. You need to call up Tolleson.
Either way, Redmond needs to go. He can neither hit nor throw at this point. Some of us have said this all year, many are now saying it. It is time.
Move slama up to AAA, he’s too old and dominant in AA - you are wasting the pitches in his arm right now.
The bullpen isn’t great, but it was never the issue. The bullpen pitches 25% of the innings on a great team. The issue remains: they have no ace, nor anyone with the stuff to be an ace, they have gaping large holes on O that cancel out the sublime play of Mauer and Morneau, they don’t know if Gomez or Young or Casilla is any good or not. Not one of those questions has been answered/fixed this year.
The only question answered so far, for me, is “will Liriano be good again any time soon”?
I don’t know if anybody’s caught the latest updates yet… but
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9791890/Sources:-Twins,-Giants-still-keen-on-2B-Sanchez
It looks like the Twins and Giants are both interested in Sanchez. However it also looks like both teams have concerns since he’s missed 6 straight with back issues.
Twins and Giants, in a bidding war for an infielder with a potential back issue? I thought the Twins already signed Joe Crede. 
This could benefit the eventual trade partner, since there’s now a risk involved with aquiring him.
mike other than that the season is going ok for you?
I love watching Mauer and Morneau and Nathan. I usually love watching Blackburn pitch. Slowey and Baker and Perkins intrigue me (not sure why, but they do). Cuddy’s continuing effort to convince me that it was the injuries the last two years is fascinating to me - is he good, or is he medicore - that will be a fascinating battle the whole year. I like to watch Kubel hit. I love to watch Crede field and Gomez field. I’m intrigued at how Span has become one of the first success stories for Lasik changing a career (there’s been a study on this - he’s one of the few to actually have his career change after surgery). I like to watch Dickey pitch - frankly I wish the Twins would teach guys like Humber or other AAAA pitchers how to pitch knucklers or sinkers or forkballs or whatever gimick pitch they want to teach (I know some of those are hard on their arms, but what’s better, a three year MLB career, or a ten year AAA career?). I’m intrigued by Morales as the backup catcher. I want to see how Duensing does in relief. There are lots of good to great reasons to watch the Twins.
I love the anticipation of Slama and Delaney and Valencia being up here some day. I’d love to see Hughes up here as the RH DH. I think they have some guys that could help, but it would be nice if they had more superstar type prospects (even 1 “sure” thing would be great).
tons of reasons to keep watching, keep hoping, keep talking about them.
Oct. 5, 2004; the last time the twins won a playoff game!
I gues we can cling to this slim hope. This is the latest from MLB Rumors:
The Giants and Twins are interested in Freddy Sanchez, but no deal is imminent for the Pirates’ second baseman, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.
Morosi says the Twins and Giants are interested, but would probably want to see Sanchez, who has missed the last six games with a back issue, prove his health before making a deal.
“People: We Dont Have Prospects To Trade! Every team, when looking to make a deal, wants MLB ready pitching. We Have None in our farm system right now. None. Zero. None. I don’t know if I can make it any more clear.”
Really? None. What about Swarzak? He looks pretty MLB ready. Mulvey also is pretty close to MLB ready. I bet Morales/Swarzak would get that deal done - possibly throw in Casilla to fill the 2B hole for them as well.
And those who think that Sanchez is too expensive - The following players will likely not be on the team next year: Crain ($1.7M), Crede (about $5M,) and Lamb’s $3M. That’s about $10 million that comes off the team salary. Sure there will be players whose current salaries go up, but they should be able to afford that with the new stadium revenue.
“what’s better, a three year MLB career, or a ten year AAA career?”
That is a revealing question that should be asked and answered by every minor league pitcher.
The answer, of course (financially), is the three year MLB career, but very few pitchers and organizations make career decisions based on that obvious answer.
Protecting the pitcher’s arm, so that he can waste his prime years starving in the minors appears to be universal organizational policy.
If I were a minor league pitcher in that situation, I would rather take my shot at MLB, succeed or fail, then move on with my “real” life.
But that’s just me.
Agreed, sane. I don’t get why any 26 (28?)+ year old minor league pitcher wouldn’t add some “risky” pitch to his repetoire. Even if he does come up, he has 3-7 years left at that age anyway. Why not take a chance on a pitch that is hard on your arm (and hard to hit) at that point?
Matt: Swarzak can’t go anywhere. Unless you are looking forward to Duensing being in the starting rotation. Out starters aren’t the definition of durable.
Morales and Casilla are pipe dreams. We can’t expect to unload garbage for good players, and Morales is a catcher who just so happens to not catch very well. He’s fine here, as he’s backing up an all star, but no team is going to give him significant innings at C if they plan on being competitive.
It comes back to what other teams want in trade. They all want MLB ready pitching. We have none to offer. We have what, 10 guys in the whole organization who belong in the majors anytime before 2011? 11 maybe if you include a straigtened out Jesse Crain (big if there). We also have no in demand prospects at AAA for position players. All our prospects are in AA or below - years from being ready.
Long story short: any improvement must come from within. We simply do not have the ability to make any kind of worthwhile trade this year.
Besides, Sanchez has sat for a week now with a bad back. That would be 2 infielders who have to sit 1 or 2 times per week. Buscher and Punto would still be starting alot.
“Long story short: any improvement must come from within. We simply do not have the ability to make any kind of worthwhile trade this year.”
how can use possibly know this. have you been in on the phone calls. they may be very happy with some of our “farther away” prospects. every thing on these blogs in regards to trades is just uninformed speculation and statements like these are just blog hyperbole!
i will apologize up front if you work in the front office and have inside info.
I have no inside knowledge. Just using common sense.
We have spare parts to trade for some other teams spare parts. We do not have the prospects to bring in an impact player.
When we brought in Shannon Stewart, it cost us Bobby Kielty. We probably don’t have a prospect right now that is anywhere near what Kielty was at the time. Our prospects are alot farther away from MLB than that.
I just threw up in my mouth typing that.
Hey, the Pirates liked Craig Monroe, along with other Twins’ castoffs (Jones, Rivas, etc.) There’s no telling what the may like.
The Giants have offered Jonathan Sanchez to the Pirates. We can’t ever realistically top that offer. That is sad.
Whenever concocting trade scenarios we need to remember to include the value of the acquired players’ salary coming off of the seller’s payroll.
Taking $11 million dollars of salary off of Pittsburgh’s obligations in a down economy has great value…especially to the bean counters. It greatly reduces the kind of talent that you have to send back if you are willing to take on that obligation.
That being said, our GM is a bean counter so I’d assume that the likelihood of Sanchez coming here is lessened.
Personally, I almost hope the Rockies do get him so we can make a run at Barmes. He seems more like something the Twins would seek. He’s on a one year contract this year, arb eligible in 10 and 11 and a free agent in 12. Even if he won in arb he’d be cheaper than Sanchez.
The Giants won’t get Freddy for Jonathan and yes, the Twins have pitchers that can “realistically” top that offer. That doesn’t mean they WILL and of course there’s this minor issue of Freddy not having played for a week or so.
Fredo, those are the exact reasons the Rockies are more likely to keep Barnes than trade for Sanchez imo.
Is Sanchez one of those players that garners two first rounders if lost in FA? That could have an impact on whether to go after him or not.
We can’t top Jonathan Sanchez?? Really? You lost your credibility with that statement.
He is 2-8 with a 5.30 ERA. His best ERA in his 4 year career was 4.95. Mulvey would top Sanchez by himself.
What about Wilson Ramos/Kevin Mulvey/Dustin Martin for Freddy Sanchez.
JC, yes. I couldn’t quite figure out why the Rockies were involved in the MLBrumors talk and identified as strong contenders. I can’t figure out why they would want with Sanchez.
the giants have been “rumored” to have offed jonathan sanchez to a lot of teams. he’s 26 with a career 5.21 era and 1.545 whip, not very good in the nl. those would be close to humber #’s if he was in the al.
Jonathan Sanchez reminds me of a mirror image of Francisco Liriano.
If Mulvey was anything to get excited about, he’d already be here in the bullpen ahead of crap like Duensing.
All three of those guys would be too much to pay for Sanchez, unless Pittsburgh was eating the whole contract.
Ramos is off limits until Mauer is signed to an extension in my opinion
ggg: and sadly, that tops any of our realistic available trade chips.
“If Mulvey was anything to get excited about, he’d already be here in the bullpen ahead of crap like Duensing.”
Only if he were a LHP which is Duensing’s entire list of MLB qualifications.
Mulvey has to succeed at AAA to get promoted as a SP.
Duensing only had to stand upright to get promoted as LH RP.
Punto and Crain for Sanchez. We get rid of Punto’s salary but still saves the Bucs a ton of money. They get a good arm that maybe just needs a change of scenery. Bring Casilla back up. Send Tolbert down.
Span
Sanchez
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Crede
Young
Casilla
sane: there is sadly alot of truth to that.
But the fact that Mulvey hasn’t yet succeded at AAA is exactly why I say we don’t have the prospects to get it done.
But, If the Pirates would do that, it would start to lessen the blow of the Santana trade. At least you know you got a year & 1/2 of a starting infielder for him…
des: puff, puff, give
There are a couple reason’s Duensing is up instead of Mulvey.
1. Duensing is lefthanded and the Twins wanted another lefty in the bullpen since the sent Henn back down.
2. They want Mulvey to be a starter and not a reliever. Duensing has experience in the bullpen as he was a reliever for team USA last year.
3. Duensing is a couple years older and has been in AAA for a couple years now.
The Twins have plenty of better trade chips better than Sanchez: Humber, Mulvey, even Duensing may be better than Sanchez. Sanchez will probably end up being a lefty specialist in a year or two.
So from reports, it looks like the following Pirates are available:
1B Adam LaRoche (strengthen the bench)
2B Freddy Sanchez (starting 2B)
RP John Grabow (strengthen bullpen)
Now it IS the Pirates, but that’s still a significant package. I think any team would be hard pressed to pry away all of that in one swoop without giving up something of value.
So if you assume the above three situations…it also means the following:
1) Buscher would not have a home on the bench. (Harris can be used on a Crede off day)
2) One of Punto/Tolbert would be removed. (the other remains on utility duty to cover MIF when Harris has to slide over to 3B) Since neither can hit I’m inclined to stick with Punto strictly for defense.
3) Redmond to the DL/showers to make room for Grabow in the pen.
I’m assuming Span, Mauer and Morneau would be the only guys officially off limits. Mauer and Morneau because they are Mauer and Morneau, and Span because he’s the leader off hitter this team has been looking for since Stewart.
Sanchez would likely be here for the following year (if he performs as the Twins would like to think he does), so Casilla is probably done as a Twin. Buscher has been relegated to bench duty already with a spot start so he’d also be expendable.
One of Cuddyer/Young/Gomez would likely be an attractive trade piece…but do the Pirates need an OF? And since part of the reason they’re moving who they are is salary, Cuddyer doesn’t factor in.
Can you live one of Gomez or Young being done with the Twins if it means a year and a half of Sanchez? I could probably live without Gomez more than Young. Because I really do see Young turning into another Ortiz if people give up on him too early.
tolbert or sanchez?? who do you like?? its up to you bill smith……..seems like a no brainer to me…but then im not bill smith…..if i was sanchez would have been a twin 2 weeks ago….
mj1: since you are Bill Smith, what did you give up 2 weeks ago to get Sanchez here?
A little tidbit courtesy of Nick Nelson’s blog, submitted without comment:
Twins hitters in the two-hole not named Joe Mauer have hit .190/.235/.237 this season.
Ok,
Punto and Swarzak. I think the Bucs would go for that. Dickey becomes emergency starter. Maybe he should be non emergency starter.
USAFChief,
So what are you trying to say? Are you saying Mauer would be better than Tolbert in the two-hole?
i dont know what players exactly, because i dont know what pitts wants but i do know we have plenty of arms and prospects to put some package together for one player- i dont think we are any worse off than any other team looking to trade for him….we may have to give up something with alot of promise, but then again you have to look at what were getting…thats not new
where is this myth perpetuated? Where are all these arms everybody talks about? I look up and down the minor league rosters, and I just don’t see the quality of prospect we had only a few short years ago. I see a very thin minor league system.
des: you are still smoking. Nobody is taking Punto.
So what are you trying to say? Are you saying Mauer would be better than Tolbert in the two-hole?
I submitted without comment.
Draw your own conclusions…or go back and check my posts over the past couple weeks.
if the twins had ken williams as a general manager, i am willing to bet we would be leading this division right now by 10 games and you wouldnt recognize this team other than mauer, morneau , nathan and a few others….wonder if other teams even know who bill smith is- you never hear from him, unless he is giving a tour of the new stadium… hey bill what about this year maybe??
the farm isnt as deep as it was, but there is still plenty to make a trade - my god you would think we dont have a minor league team the way some people react…..
i am willing to be that there are teams out there that would have some interest in a hicks, parmalee, hughes, revere and on and on…..please dont act like we dont have players to give up for a good trade……
fcm, it is just a way to lighten the salary dump which seems to be a sticking point. We give them Punto’s $mil contract. We get Sanchez’s 8 mil. They are looking for arms to develop. Not saying the Bucs want him. Give them Swarzak, Punto and Shooter Hunt. We can give them enough that they will take Punto.
Dreary day for Twins fans. Souhan has the right focus on Liriano/Baker. And there are a couple daily holes in the lineup at 2B/SS. And the BP is one adequate pitcher short — unless Duensing surprises.
So the calm reality is that Gen Mgr Smith won’t move to fill the holes this year as long as Liriano/Baker are a problem.
So it’s a dreary reality. But there ya go…….
So the calm reality is that Gen Mgr Smith won’t move to fill the holes this year as long as Liriano/Baker are a problem.
What was the excuse last year?
What will be the excuse next year?
Agree we need to do something about 2nd base. The SI website has a piece from Baseball America about possible 2nd half impact players from the minors and includes Steve Tolleson on that list. Is he a possibility? Is his defense remotely close to major league level?
Also, going off subject here I know, but am I the only one here who’s thinking that if Glen Perkins has strep throat, he must have the world’s worst case–ever? My daughter had strep last weekend (fun on a holiday weekend!) and I’ve been thru bouts with my girls before, but once I got her on the antibiotic, she was acting like normal within 2 days (she felt a lot better the 1st day after starting the meds & was very close to 100% the 2nd day after). I get it that strep isn’t anything to mess with, but I’m just not seeing where if that’s what he has he should be missing this much.
mj1: Hicks, Revere: Yes, definitly prospects. I’d personally trade one of the two if I had to, but prospects like this are usually reserved for trades that get arbitration experienced (cheaper) players, not so much when you also have to take on money.
Parmalee: so-so prospect.
Hughes: no NL team is touching him with a 10 foot pole. His only future is being a DH. Awesome hitter vs LHP,by all accounts dreadful in the field.
fcmlefty: Sanchez is a decent, but not great, second baseman. He’s owed $11M over the next year and a half, and his current team is actively trying to get out from under that contract.
If, as you believe, one of Mulvey or Humber cannot form the primary basis of a trade for him, what does that tell us about the return the Twins got for Johan Santana?
Chief: I don’t think he is the savior, but we are talking about an All-Star 2B who has won a batting title. I think you are underestimating his value a bit.
What does it say about the return for Santana? It sucks, thats what it says. I thought it looked good at the time: a starting CF, a MLB ready starter (Humber) and a SP who would be in the rotation in 2011, and the bullpen before that (Mulvey), plus a power armed prospect. Instead, we got a not yet ready for prime time outfielder, a 1st round bust, a still pretty decent prospect (Mulvey…I’ve probably underrated him in previous posts) and a power arm that has issues. (but young enough to salvage)
The glass is half empty?
Nay! I say the glass is half full. This is what I see. A solid team, IF the many who are performing at a level significantly less than last year get unslumped.
This is my vision:
Casilla finds it, comes back and fills the 2 hole with a .285/.330/.390
Crain’s wife learns a new technique in bed. He gets invigorated, comes back and is a MONSTER in the 8th.
Baker refinds it. Finishes at last years rate of production.
Perkins stays healthy.
Crede’s BA comes up to .265
Twins trade Harris and Liriano for JJ Hardy and a player to be named later.
JJ reverts to his carreer avg .263/.324/.432
Swarzak finishes the year 6 and 2 in the rotation.
Punto goes on a tear and ends the year at last years avg .284
Delmon is traded to the mets for Fmart. Who proceeds to tear up AAA. Pridie comes up as the 4th OF. Gets 15 PAs rest of the year as a D sub.
Gomez plays everyday. Regains confidence. Ends season at last years rate .258/.296/.360
Twins win central.
Twins stomp Yank$ in 1st round.
Twins stomp Boston in 2nd round.
Twins beat LA in WS 4 games to 2. Manny’s carreer is ended in a game ending homeplate collision with Joe Mauer.
We all live happily ever after.
The Twins have ths decade have generally been good enough to tease but not quite good enough to compete with the elite teams in the league. Some prefer that to a long term plan where you go for broke over a 3 year (or so) window with the full knowledge that the club will have to rebuild, not reload, after the window closes since no matter how you slice it, this isn’t a big market. Of course, just because you go for broke doesn’t guarantee a championship. All sorts of things can go wrong (Detroit last year is a prime example). Still, I prefer the latter model, but it appears most don’t.
I prefer the former model. If good enough to tease means good enough to make the playoffs half the time. If you are good enough to make the playoffs you are good enough to win it all. I would take 6 playoff chances with a 10% chance of winning it all over 3 chances with a 20% chance to win it all.
You may feel that the Twins wouldn’t have a 10% chance in an 8 team field but no team really has a 20% chance either. Adjust as you like. Don’t site 87 or 91 Twins as going for broke. They defied much greater odds. They would probably fall into the former category. They were over 100-1 odds against.
Playoffs are just a crapshoot. I like the Twins to be relevant in September year in and year out. I want them to go for Sanchez though. It is only a 2 year commitment right? As USAF says they can afford the money. Making the playoffs is the important thing. I will take my chances on Blackburn and Perkins or whoever coming up big in short series.
It is interesting how thing change in a short period of time. Less than a week ago, Morneau was player of the week, our rotation had finally gone at least 2 times through with quality starts, Harris was ok in the 2 spot, we were ending a good road trip, had just beat the Tiger and were 1.5 games out. Now Harris sucks, Morneau wore the collar. Baker and Liriano back to terrible, Perkins sick and Slowey hurt. Believe it or not we could come out of the 4 day rest and do exactly like Paul said earlier. Its not likely but its why I keep watching. Sanchez could be the Shannon Stewart move. Heck, maybe even Casilla could provide that spark.
Des, wouldn’t think of citing ‘87 or ‘91 for those purposes, particularly ‘91. In ‘91, we caught lightning in a bottle, which could happen with a club very like our current club. It’s just highly improbable. The game has changed so much in the last 20 years ecconomically that I don’t think you could cite any particular club in that era as an example.
