Four things to know about the Tigers
Posted on September 18th, 2009 – 9:55 AMBy Joe Christensen
We have all kinds of material previewing the Twins/Tigers series, so be sure to check these links. Meanwhile, this recurring list of things to know about the Tigers is getting shorter, along with their AL Central lead:
1) Detroit’s home/road success mirrors the Twins’. The Tigers are 48-26 at home and 30-42 on the road. That’s why it’s so important for the Twins to take advantage this weekend. I don’t believe they need a sweep to stay alive, but they do need to win the series.
2) The Tigers rank 11th in the American League in runs scored, at 4.6 per game. The Twins rank sixth at 4.9. So the Tigers haven’t scored like the Twins, and suddenly their rotation is riddled with questions, too. Rick Porcello, who pitches tonight, has been their hottest starter, and Saturday’s starter Justin Verlander remains a force. But after that, the Tigers are rolling the dice. Consider:
a) Jarrod Washburn was 4-1 with a 1.44 ERA in July, earning AL pitcher of the month honors for Seattle. When Detroit traded for him, it seemed like a real slap in the face for the Twins. But Washburn is 1-3 with a 7.33 ERA for the Tigers and has allowed 12 homers in 43 innings. Clearly, Washburn hasn’t been healthy. He was scratched from Sunday’s start and is out indefinitely. In his place is fellow lefty Nate Robertson.
b) The Tigers had just scrapped an experiment of re-inserting Robertson into the rotation after pelvic inflammation caused him to leave a start after 3 2/3 innings. At the time, Manager Jim Leyland said he was putting Eddie Bonine in the rotation just to eliminate the uncertainty of Robertson’s availability. Now, the Tigers are moving forward with both of them. They could skip Bonine on Monday, but that is their final open date of the season.
c) Edwin Jackson was a first-half revelation, going 7-4 with a 2.52 ERA and making the All-Star team. But he is 2-2 with a 6.03 ERA in his past five starts and appears to be hitting the wall. Right now, he is to the Tigers what Nick Blackburn is to the Twins. Jackson took the loss Thursday, as the Royals pounded the Tigers 9-2. Afterward, Leyland sounded concerned, telling the Detroit Free Press, “Seems like he’s pitched quite a few games without all his ammunition. He really hasn’t had his breaking stuff on any consistent basis for quite a while.”
3) The Tigers have committed just one error in their past 15 games. Shortstop Adam Everett has helped solidify their defense. Twins fans might roll their eyes at that, but his right shoulder was killing him last season, so he never got to show them the player he was for Houston. “He’s been a real special player for us,” Leyland told the Detroit News this week.
4) The above links point to the success some of the Twins have had against the Tigers, but there’s another side to that. Placido Polanco is a .324 career hitter against the Twins, and Carlos Guillen .310. Then there’s Magglio Ordonez, who has played 162 career games against the Twins — the equivalent of a full season — and has batted .326 with 35 HR and 128 RBI. You say, “Well he’s not a power hitter anymore.” But tell that to Francisco Liriano, who gave up a three-run shot to Ordonez on July 4, turning a 2-0, seventh-inning lead into a 3-2 deficit.
Note: Should be an exciting weekend. Check back here this afternoon for tonight’s starting lineups and other tidbits.
55 Responses to "Four things to know about the Tigers"
Great coverage Joe and others. Thanks for all the great work on this.
You say, “Well he’s not a power hitter anymore.” But tell that to Francisco Liriano, who gave up a three-run shot to Ordonez on July 4, turning a 2-0, seventh-inning lead into a 3-2 deficit.
Liriano’s not a power pitcher anymore, either.
Good report, Joe. The fun of all of this speculation is that we control our destiny, and do not have to play spoilers like KC does. Thanks for your report.
Joe C, I like how in your match preview you highlight that Joe Mauer is a .350 hitter against the Tigers, meaning, yeah, he’s hitting pretty well against them, but not as well as he hits against all the other teams.
It must be tough to have to write about the best hitter in baseball.
Thanks, Joe.
Here’s to hoping that by Monday, your blog heading can be “Here’s the one thing you need to know about the Tigers.”
I dare not think the Twins will sweep this series. I hope they’ll take 2 of 3 but that’s a lot to ask. All year the Twins have been slump busters for teams. For once I hope this is not the case.
i’ve been following the twins since the day i was delivering the mpls. star, as a kid, that headlined the senators moving to the cities. however i have to say i’m not sure i’d like to see this team get a playoff spot after how they have performed all year. even a short playoff run would cloud all the problems we’ve seen all year and give many an excuse to not spend or do the things needed to make this a playoff quality team. i know some figure just making it is enough but i’d really like to see them put together a team that competes with the big boys and not just the little sisters of the poor in the central.
What’s funny is that even if the Twins “only” win the series this weekend, it’s still sends a huge message to Detroit, who’s seemingly done everything in their power the last month or so to make sure the Twins were still in it by the time this series (and the final one at Comerica) came.
But seriously. The sweep needs to come this weekend. That would put all the pressure on Detroit and leave the Twins in a spot where if they played “even” all the way till Comerica they wouldn’t need to sweep on the road to move in front.
But seriously, SOMEBODY has to win the division. Wether they want to or not.
I’m sorry ggg, but I simply can not understand that kind of thinking from any ‘fan’.
It’s like saying, “I hope (insert favorite B10 football team here) doesn’t win the conference because they’ll just get their butts kicked in the Rose Bowl or Natl Championship game, and they’ll have an excuse not to bother recruiting better next year.”
Given the talent on the Twins DL, if this group of players finds a way to overcome a 7 game deficit in early September to win their Division, they should have earned the respect of their fans and the right to celebrate with those fans.
If you don’t care to join the celebration, so be it.
I think you stretched your 4 things there Joe.
Anyway, while part of me agrees with ggg’s sentiments, another part agrees with Jimmy C that I want Joe to be writing his “One Thing to Know About the Tigers” on Monday. This is baseball after all and hope springs eternal. Anything can happen. We were not very good in ‘87 either.
“Given the talent on the Twins DL, if this group of players finds a way to overcome a 7 game deficit in early September to win their Division, they should have earned the respect of their fans and the right to celebrate with those fans.”
with all due respect to the greatestness of the Twins IF the Twins win the division it will be because Tiggers choked this is not like 2006 were the Twin’s had the best record in MLB after the ASB this is a team that makes the 1987 Twins look like the Yankee team that won 120 games
Jimmy C, I think that ggg was expressing a concern of many Twins’ fans, yes fans, that if we do squeak to a division win BS and the FO will use it as an excuse not to improve the team in the offseason. “What we have is good enough.” It’s a real concern given this FO’s track record. But that won’t stop me from going to the game tonight and cheering my head off and biting my fingernails hoping we can knock off Detroit and take the division.
“We were not very good in ‘87 either.”
indeed, the twins lost their last five games in 1987, and seven of their last nine. many assumed they’d be an embarrassing pushover against the tigers in the playoffs …
i wish i remember where i saw it, but some brainiac somewhere did an analysis showing that the underdog wins 45 percent of the postseason series in baseball.
The bottom line is it doesn’t really matter how the Twins get there as long as they get there. The last time i checked they only counted wins and losses not wins, losses, other team choked, Twins got lucky …..
Kay, if you’re going to the game and cheering your head off, it doesn’t sound to me like you’re hoping the Twins don’t win the division.
Of course, we all want the FO to improve the team in the off-season. But the likelihood that anything they do is enough to make some people around here happy is pretty low, anyway.
They’re two different issues. Express your views about the off season and the FO when you at least see what they’re doing. Using those concerns NOW as an excuse to say you hope your team doesn’t win their division is simply something I can’t understand.
As for FIRE’s comments, I don’t think anyone is applying a “greatness” standard to this team. But if the Twins win the division, they will have had to beat the Tigers head-to-head in order to do so. If you simply can’t bring yourself to give the Twins players any credit for that, should it happen, and instead write it off to the Tigers choking…. ok, whatever.
Here’s one thing to know about the White Sox - depending on how this weekend works out and their standing in the playoff race, they are thinking about shutting down Gavin Floyd and Mark Buhrle for the rest of the season. Interesting for the Twins!
Minnesota Cat, that is interesting on the White Sox shutting those two down. But it’s a double-edged sword because the Tigers have games remaining with the White Sox as well…..so it does help us, but it helps the Tigers as well.
Let’s sweep the Tigers and have some fun! It’s been a frustrating season, but I’m going to just try and enjoy these games. I’ll think about all the other “crap” with this team during the offseason. For now, let’s enjoy the fact that we’re still in this, no matter how we got to this point.
Which is better for the Twins? To have Floyd and Buerhle shut down so we don’t see them during our final series with them in Chicago, or have them stay active so Detroit may face both of them in each of their final 2 series.
If the Twins sweep this weekend, and the White Sox sweep the Royals, the White sox would be just 3.5 out of first place, and 2.5 behind the Twins, with 3 games vs. the Twins (in Chicago), and 6 games (homne & away) with Detroit.
I’m sure Chicago is pulling for MN this weekend.
“Kay, if you’re going to the game and cheering your head off, it doesn’t sound to me like you’re hoping the Twins don’t win the division.”
Nope. Can’t go there no matter how frustrated I get with the FO.
Go Twins!
There’s nothing for the WSox, Royals and Indians to play for at this point except the pleasure of screwing up the playoff chances of the Tigers and Twins, so those teams obviously are still dangerous, but you just can’t predict how much enthusiasm and effort that will generate in those teams.
That’s why these head-to-head games with the Tigers take on so much importance. You don’t rely on someone else to take down the other team, you do it yourself.
As for the Sox perhaps shutting down Floyd and Buehrle, I’m not sure that’s a good thing for the Twins given their propensity for making unheard-of rookies look like Koufax and Drysdale. Might like the chances against the regular guys in the rotation better.
Any “fan” that would not like to see their team win a division, mediocre or not, is un-smart. I understand the concern with the front office, but I don’t think they are blind enough to think they don’t need to patch some holes. Maybe I’m crazy and Billy boy will use a division win to sit on his hands, but I really hope not. A couple pieces and we could actually dominate the division next year.
A division win is MORE likely to motivate the MGMT to make a few more moves. They’ll go in to the off season with a bit of that playoff taste.
Is there ever a game when Morales shouldn’t be in the line-up from here until the end of the season?
With Cuddy at 1B and Kubel in RF, it seems like Morales should DH whenever Mauer catches, and start at catcher whenever Mauer is DH.
Gardy was quoted in the paper sying something about getting his bat in the lineup, but I don’t trust him. We’ve heard that before about Harris, and then you’d see Punto show up 2 days later.
Punto may be swinging a hot bat in Sept, but I don’t see Red providing better AB’s than Morales from here on out.
I would bench Morales for Redmond. Red is much better behind the dish.
imho this team is not very good. the fact they had injuries and the umps save up all their bad calls to go against them doesn’t change the fact it hasn’t been a very good team. every team had injuries, every team has bad calls go against it. many people still say gardy is a top 5 manager based mostly on what the team did 5+ years ago. the last 3 years the teams have not played like they did 06 and before and their record the last 3 years is barely over .500. to some that is ok and are happy with an occasional run at a division title.
as gardy says i will keep rooting for the twins but that doesn’t mean i have to be happy or content with the, again imo, sub-par product they have been putting on the field.
i guess i’m un-smart, not sure that’s a word, but i still expect more and i don’t see a real track record of them working to but a real ws quality team on the field which disappoints me as a long time fan.
but i’ll be watching tonight and most of the other remaining games, baseball season is getting short and it will be a long winter.
Joe C, I’d get an early start on 7 things to know about the White Sox.
“I would bench Morales for Redmond. Red is much better behind the dish.”
that would be very meaningful if you managed the twins.
You gotta love how our starting shortstops for the past two seasons have gone on to be the “MVP” of their team (Bartlett) and “a real special player” and we have to settle for Punto and Cabrera.
” I don’t believe they need a sweep to stay alive, but they do need to win the series.”
It’s gonna be hard to get 3 out of 4 in Detroit. The Tiggs probably will be out of their slump by then and ready to be bullies at showdown time.
So I definitely think a sweep is almost mandatory.
“I would bench Morales for Redmond. Red is much better behind the dish.”
Gardy said this morning that Mauer will catch tonight with Morales as the DH.
Twins need to go 12-4 with the Tigers going 8-8 to force a playoff. So if the Twins take 2 of 3, they would need to go 10-3 (or better) in the last 13 games while the Tigers would need to go 7-6 (or worse).
ggg, you make several legitimate points and it’s perfectly acceptable to expect the FO to make significant changes this off season, especially now that the new stadium and its associated revenue increases will become a reality.
But when you make a statement about fans being “happy with an occasional run at a division title”, you undermine your own credibility.
The years that the Twins have been in contention, that is making a “run”, for a division title in this decade are greater than those in which they have not done so. That’s not “occasional”.
It’s fine to want more. It’s fine to want the FO to do more. It’s fine to expect deeper playoff runs and WS games.
But don’t say this team only occasionally makes a run at the division title.
Is it safe to say that if Duensing continues to pitch well this year he will have a spot in the rotation next year or does he need more seasoning in the minors?
Joe,
In your “five keys” to stopping Detroit, I would add a sixth-
someone needs to pull a Jeff Gillooly
on Miguel Caberra.
That dude just kills us…
While the Twins do make runs at the highly coveted AL Central title, when are the going to make a run at the World Series?
interesting that freddy sanchez owns a .613 ops in 94 plate appearances — including two walks and two extra-base hits — since sf acquired him.
mickey mental,
even more interesting IMO is that those who wer bashing the Twins FO for not giving up a ton to get him have ignored that fact.
BC, seems to me he is getting seasoning right here in the bigs, need he go back to AAA next year? I think the Twins could find a spot for him in the rotation because Perkins and/or Liriano should be gone next year or in the pen.
Looks to me like Jarrod Washburn has come down with a case of Perkinitus.
“Is it safe to say that if Duensing continues to pitch well this year he will have a spot in the rotation next year or does he need more seasoning in the minors?”
Good question, although look at how our young pitching from last year ended up this year.
Our staff is set with the 5th being anyone’s guess:
1. Baker
2. Slowey
3. Blackburn
4. Pavano (if we succeed in signing him)
5. Liriano/Perkins/Duensing/Boof/TC the bear/My HS phy ed teacher
It will be interesting to see what happens to Rich Harden in the offseason.
GCO,
Twins won’t sign Harden. Why? If things stay to form, he would come out as a Type A free agent.
Trading for him was really the only option, unless Bill Smith gets crazy from enjoying that Target Field grass.
S in C:
Ah. Very good point. So all we need is for ol Billy to turn into Carl Spackler.
I think they are already similar in many respects, perhaps its not too much of a stretch?
GCO,
I dont think that’s a bad rotation at all. I know that I’m one of the few people who thought Slowey would have a very good year this year and i still think he’s better then Baker. Duensing is like a mirro image of Blackburn so either one of them would make a great 4/5. The Twins still need an Ace though and Harden would be a perfect fit.
BC, I was right there with you. I really believe in Slowey and think he will be solid for years. I also think that Baker will be alright. I think there is still time for Liriano. Blackburn could still be an effective pitcher. I hope they resign Pavano for the stability. The rest are question marks. The Twins would be wise to sign one more veteran for the rotation imho.
IMHO the Twins should use Blackie as a trading chip this offseason. I would have reserved that role for “Baby” Glen, but he isn’t netting anything valuable. I think Blackie could hold some trade value, maybe for JJ Hardy, maybe as a part of a deal for Yunel. Anyway, I think he is dispensable, but still has some value, and we coudl use that to shore up other areas.
2010 Rotation Locks
Slowey
Baker
Liriano
2010 Rotation Contenders
Duensing
Swarzak
Boof
Perk
Manship
Keeping Pavano would be nice, but I assume he will find money elsewhere.
The Twins could use another starter who is not currently on the roster, but I really don’t think they will/should go after Harden, Pinero, Washburn et. al.
BC of ND:
How about the infield?
Or Gomez and Young?
I find it funny that the Twins are in a division race and yet still have not real options for 3B/SS/2B going into next year.
I wouldn’t call Liriano a rotation lock. I think he is a rotation contender and perhaps a BP piece.
It would be pretty sweet if we could catch Omar blinking and get Jose Reyes on the cheap.
Obviously a pipedream, but…
Crikkett:
“But don’t say this team only occasionally makes a run at the division title.”
i stand corrected, how about an occasional run at being a serious world series type team? not having to get there but good enough to get there if everything goes right understanding there is some luck involved.
GCO, maybe we could get him at gunpoint…just kidding. It would be great to have a legitimate SS.
Yeah, its really silly to even bring up.
I had just read a few articles/ comments of people who think the mets should blow up their roster and start over.
ggg, I think that’s a reasonable edit.
As I’ve said, it’s fine not to be totally satisfied with merely contending for the division title. I just don’t think that’s justification for rooting against your team winning that title.
“As I’ve said, it’s fine not to be totally satisfied with merely contending for the division title. I just don’t think that’s justification for rooting against your team winning that title.”
JCrikket - noone is going to ask Twins to give back a division title but just admitt the division title is quite hollow when the team can’t win a playoff series or a playoff game and gives justification to Billy and Friends to resign Mauer and do nothing else
GCO,
GCO,
As far as infielders go my dream guy would be Hanley Ramirez but he’s been so grossly underpaid for his first three years of baseball that he will want a huge contract.
