Antique & Classic Cars Blog
Spaced Out Fan-tastic
Saturday, September 22nd, 2007Put an American V8 in a British sports car and you’re gonna confront some challenges. The TR6 radiator cooled 2.5 liters (of straight 6). The new mill is a 3.5-liter (215ci) V8 in need of more cooling capacity. Grabbed a 215 radiator from the back seat of a picked over ‘62 Buick Special out at French Lake and had Carlberg Radiator rebuild it with a more efficient core. (Photos of both radiators here.)
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But the narrower TR6 radiator sat between rails that the wider 215 heat exchanger has to sit in front of. To keep the fan close behind it–has to be for good airflow through the radiator–I needed several fan spacers (in this case an ad hoc collection of 1/2-, 1-, and 2-inch examples).
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I’m using a fan clutch both because they’re cool and because the fan mounting holes are spaced out for one. My fan is a rare heavy-duty piece from an air-conditioned ‘62 Buick Special station wagon, again from French Lake, which won’t bolt directly to the fan pulley or the spacers affixed to it.
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The fan clutch poses its own challenge because it obstructs the holes for its mounting flange: you can’t mount it with bolts because of the angle, so you need studs (threaded at both ends). To put the fan an inch from the radiator where that needed to go, I needed 4-1/2 inch studs–not an off-the-shelf item. So I bought some 5/16-inch bolts five inches long and had Shawn at Quali-Mac machine shop cut them down to 4-1/2 inches and put an inch of 24-pitch thread on the cut-off end.
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Now we’re talking. Radiator and fan sitting pretty good. Now I just need to find the mother of all flexible universal radiator hoses to snake from the water pump to the radiator outlet pipe and we’re in business, or at least ready to start and run.
7 Responses to "Spaced Out Fan-tastic"
Maybe thinking outside the box might work here. knowing nothing about the actual space limitations you have, I do think that the radiator hoses for the 3.5’s were a little smaller than the stuff used on full size v8’s. Is it possible to use a section of tubing to make the tightest bend and actually use 2 hose sections. I’d try mocking up a model and go to my friendly neighborhood muffler shop and have them try to bend an appropriate section. A little flair on the end would give you something to hold the hoses on with normal clamps, and if it worked, I’d eventually replace it with a stainless piece, rather than the mild steel. You could even mock up using some pvc pieces is the bends were close to 90 or 45 degrees.
Nice ideas, Gary. Yeah, it\’s that tight bend that\’s the trick. I need to avoid a kink in the hose, but even those universal hoses with the accordion look and coiled metal inside to prevent them from kinking when you bend them resist the sort of sharp \”S\” I need. I also don\’t want the hose to be in such tension because of the bend that it\’s torquing the radiator\’s outlet tube. Carlberg radiator says if you get too much torque on the tube, over time it can damage the outlet and create a leak.
Your idea of letting a fixed piece handle the S shape allows me to get real tight there without putting anything in tension. Only drawback to more joints is more opportunities for a leak to develop, though if everything fits together well and is properly clamped that concern should be minor. Another advantage to a fixed S is that I can move the radiator back a little–I have it mocked up so far forward to give room to the bottom hose. I\’d rather have about three inches of spacers, which would put less stress on the water pump shaft and give me a little more clearance between the hood and the radiator and fan.
Just one more thought, again about outside the box a little. On T-bird super coupes, Ford did what I can only call a stupid thing, they routed a radiator hose inside the accessory belts. A pain in the butt, because you have to remove the hose to change the belt…..but, maybe it truly was the lesser of two evils. Don’t have a guess if this would be another alternative for you.
It’s a real tight spot on the car because of all the things congregating there. My alternator has to go to that side because the distributor comes off the timing cover and angles to the driver’s side, taking up too much space to put the alternator there.
The water pump sits below the alternator. Between it and the radiator outlet lie a bolt-in crossmember, a folded sheet-steel cross piece on which the TR6 factory radiator sat and the rack-and-pinion assembly. There might be room to slip it above the steering rack gaiter but I’m concerned that up and down wheel travel would pinch or just gradually wear the hose. My remote oil filter is also bolted to the fender on that side and crowding the space.
But your suggestion of a fixed bent piece is versatile. I plucked the alternator out yesterday for a fresh look at the space and as I mock up possibilities, I’ll explore whether the fixed (bent soft or stainless steel) piece could handle a tight route elsewhere. May be that spaces too tight to consider guiding an unwieldy hose through could be navigated more precisely by a rigid metal bend….
I’ll snap and post some digital pics so readers interested in such puzzles can stay attuned. Thanks. KP
Did you ever consider a switched electric fan?
I know you’ve got that clutch fan worked out, but you’d be amazed at how much HP those driven fans actually use. Car Craft, I think did a quick test and found one clutch fan that used 15 HP to turn.
I’m planning on using one on my ‘67 Old Cutlass. The big block never liked heavy traffic on a warm day. The radiator for a ‘67 Cutlass is almost identical to the radiator from a ‘90 through ‘96 Silhouette, believe it or not. I know, because my ‘90 van’s radiator needed repair. When I took it out, it seemed familiar looking, so I placed them next to each other, and they’re nearly identical. GM has a long history of using proven (And PAID FOR) engineering. I determined an elec. fan assy from the Olds or Pontiac dust buster vans will work perfectly, and that’s what I plan on using. (Chevy’s are different.)
Neat project, by the way!!!
I know a driven fan can use power but I thought the clutch actually saved over a fixed fan (though I\’m sure you\’re right that it doesn\’t do better than an electric).
The reason I haven\’t considered that is conception. My idea with this car is to do what Shelby and Sunbeam and Morgan and Aston Martin and TVR and MG(R) and even Triumph, ultimately, did: combine beautiful British coachwork with–in this case light weight–American V8 muscle. Part of the conception is that my finished project could actually have been something Triumph engineers with a bit of John DeLorean in them actually built. Thus (except for my alternator, electic choke, and TR8 5-speed gearbox, all circa 1980), no part in my English/American hybrid sports car was produced after 1972–the year my TR was built.
Somehow, building it that way rests easy with my conscience, having hacked up a perfectly functioning TR6. When I was in England, a TVR went by out in the country with this engine\’s descendent and BOY did that sound good! ;^)
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MotorMouth Kris Palmer, freelance auto writer and editor, blogs about vintage cars, the collectible auto scene and just about anything else that goes vroom.
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