Twins-Pirates
Posted on March 30th, 2007 – 12:13 PMBy La Velle
Joe Mauer did not make the trip. He’s going to play in a minor league game where he can get as many at-bats as he wants. Plus he doesn’t have to put up with the bus ride - and traveling stunk today because of @$!% Florida traffic.
Twins: Tyner, Bartlett, Kubel, Winfree, Moses, Rabe, Heintz, L-Rod, Ortiz.
Pirates: Duffy, Wilson, Paulino, LaRoche, Bay, Eldred, Bautista, Castillo, Gorzlanny.
93 Responses to "Twins-Pirates"
Matt Moses just singled in Bartlett. It’s 1-0 Twins in the first inning.
I hope survives with all his limbs today. I see that Eldred is in the lineup.
The Twins are fielding a nice lineup today!
Here is the gameday link:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2007/gd.html?2007_03_30_minmlb_pitmlb_1&brand=mlb
I feel stupid. Been trying to create that link but I had the Twins at home WHOOPS.
Eldred pops out to Bartlett in his first at bat. He was aiming for him but got under it a little.
Good job Ortiz. Way to keep Bartlett healthy!
Heintz, celebrating his roster spot, homered to left in the second to put the Twins up 2-0.
Does anyone know if this Gorzelanny guy is in the Pirates regular rotation? He must be if he’s pitching this late in spring.
Gorzellany was one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball just a year ago. Just another of a lot of VERY talented young arms in Pittsburgh.
La Velle - Are you surprised that Gardy blamed the media for trying to sensationalize the decision to keep Silva and send down Garza?
I don’t always agree with the angles in which sports are covered in our town but in this case you were very much entitled to question that decision.
Twins have struck out 7 times through four innings.
La Velle? Is Ortiz only going four, or is GameDay wrong?
If he is only going four innings, why?
Fun day to see some kids getting full time action.
Heintz is the man…. Joe who? 
Dang, we could’ve cut Mauer and kept J.D. Durbin. Dang.
Kubel hasn’t exactly been lighting the world on fire lately. I hope the kid is OK.
in this case you were very much entitled to question that decision.
But then isn’t that the point. A a fan, your perspectives is based almost entirely on reports you have heard or read.
If you start with the assumption that spring training games really don’t mean much, was Silva’s job really ever in doubt? Or was the competition between Garza and Silva almost entirely an invention of the medias? In fact, maybe the coaching staff was clear Garza wasn’t ready and that Silva was working on things. Maybe it became a story because the media needed something to write about. And they exaggerated the coaches concerns about Silva and their interest in keeping Garza to hype the story.
Afterall the alternative was Hientz versus Rabe. Not exactly a burning story.
TT, what world are you living in? I just wanna know, that’s all.
Dustin -
The real world, you should try it.
TT has a point. If ST doesn’t matter, than Silva never had anything to prove. Of course, the other side to the argument is why would any team let a veteran go then.
So the media just “invented” everything that was going on with Garza/Silva? You sure you’re living in the real world?
TT - Perhaps you’re right but the numbers don’t lie. We kept a guy with a double-digit ERA over a guy who had performed really well.
I also realize that I shouldn’t be so critical of a team that has won as many games as the Twins have in the past 5 years but none-the-less our trophy case could use a little more hardware and that’s why I’m concerned.
The media did not create the issue, Silva created it by his performance a year ago and continued struggles this spring. Clearly fans are interested in the issue and for the media to have ignored it would have been inappropriate. I agree that sometimes the media “makes” a story in the interest of generating buzz. I just don’t believe for a minute that was the case in this instance and it wasn’t the media’s (or fans’) responsibility to overlook the obviously poor spring Silva was having.
Ortiz just did his presser. “I can’t wait to pitch in Minnesota,” he said excitedly.
Twins just scored an unearned run to go up 3-0. Pirates have one hit all game….make that two hits as Nate McLouth leads off with a single off David Shinske.
Ah yes, another common TT theme: The media makes a lot of stuff up and decides what to show us and what not to. So our perspectives are necessarily skewed by the media’s lies.
The question then becomes, how do you get your information TT? Are you a fly on the wall of the clubhouse and dugout?
LaVelle you have your work cut out for you compiling all of the picks to click from Wed’s blog.
…and furthermore… to beat another horse that’s at least already on life support, if not dead… it’s perfectly fine for Gardy to publicly say at the start of ST that rotation spots are all up for grabs and he’ll take the best 5 pitchers north, even if he doesn’t really mean it… just to make sure nobody takes their spot for granted and the kids give it their best shot. He’s not obligated to be 100% truthful in that situation.
BUT… he can’t have it both ways… don’t make that comment and then expect fans and media (not to mention pitchers with miniscule ERAs who get sent down in favor of vets who’ve done poorly) not to question your decisions publicly when you don’t stand by your comments at the end of ST.
In A.L. Central-altering news, Kenny Rogers will miss UP TO HALF OF THE SEASON WITH A BLOOD CLOT IN HIS ARM. Oh my….
2007 Tiggers’ rotation = 2006 White Flags’ rotation
Too bad about The Gambler - I really enjoyed it when he pitched for the Twins that year. But that should tighten things up in the Central race this year. That may make up for giving 5-10 starts to someone other than Garza for the Twins.
I’m surprised the Tigers aren’t going to have Minor in the rotation instead of Chad Durbin.
The Pirates have just scored three runs off Shinske. I’m going to have a few words with this this kid if we end up in rush hour traffic because of extra innings.
(Just kidding. I never have words with anyone 
)
Pirates take a 4-3 lead. Shinske is out of the game.
…hey, Kyle Waldrop is in the game!
Hey, Gardy, isn’t it a little early for the bunker mentality? A lot of fans are upset that you aren’t bringing your best rotation north, and rightly so. That isn’t the media’s fault.
Personally, I was disappointed from the time I saw the Twins had agreed to give “Ol’ Whiplash” four million bucks this season. Thankfully it appears as a fifth starter the damage Silva could potentially cause might be kept to a minimum.
I’ll just root for the Twins to win 12-10 when he’s out there!
he can’t have it both ways… don’t make that comment and then expect fans and media (not to mention pitchers with miniscule ERAs who get sent down in favor of vets who’ve done poorly) not to question your decisions publicly when you don’t stand by your comments at the end of ST.
I think Gardy can have it both ways.
If Garza, Venafro, et. al., question the decision and take an “I’ll be back” attitude, that’s all good. The vets have to do well to continue to hold off the up-and-comers, the up-and-comers have to stay hungry and be ready when a spot opens. A win-win.
On another note, I like The Gambler so will not take glee in his injury. But with him and Cliff Lee and Luke Hudson laid up and the Sox struggling as much as Silva has this spring, it’s hard not to see it all as a positive for the Twins’ chances.
Egad,
By what “precise” criteria do you define the “best rotation”?
Regards,
Too bad for Shinskie. He was quite inconsistent last year. Good Luck Waldrop.
What the whiners don’t seem to understand is that the idea behind Spring Training is to get ready for the regular season.
It is not a team tryout. If it were I would drive to Florida every year with my glove and spikes.
Do you really think that if Tyner had a great spring he would start instead of Torii Hunter?
Get a life.
Look around the league and see the ERAs of veteran starting pitchers. Is John Garland going to the minors? Mark Buehrle?
I suggest that everyone spend some time on things that are worthwhile instead of worrying about spring training results.
For example: have you checked in with your political representatives about the new supplemental bill for funding the Iraq war? That actually has some impact in the real world.
I’ll repeat a point I have made in other comments. Fans pay way to much attention to spring training game stats. That is a very small part of what players are evaluated on in spring training. It is a part, but much more important is how they appraoch things and what they do in outside of games sessions. Does Garza have a greater upside than Silva? Of course he does. Is he likely to do better in April? No. Last years stats would support this, as would Garza’s failure to use pitches other than his fastball in ST games and his difficulty commanding his secondary pitches in other sessions as well. Silva did what players are supposed to do - he worked on improvement regardless of his ST game stats. Anderson and Gardenhire were consistent all spring that the key was to carry what he did in non-game sessions into the games. He finally did this in the last game, but more important is whether he can do this in April. If he can’t, it’s a problem. If he can he has a pretty good chance to succeed.
They have also been consistent in what they have told Garza he needs to do - stop relying on his fastball so much. This works in A ball, AA ball and AAA ball, but won’t work in the big leagues, as shown last year. He will be a top of the line starter once he gets this.
Venafro is an issue of roster spots and, again, how he got it done. Too many walks and jams. Yes, he did extremely well getting out of them, but it wasn’t fun to watch him pitch in to them. I think he will be back withthe Twins for much of the year if he wants to start in Rochester.
If ST doesn’t matter,
But that isn’t the issue, is it? If the Twins didn’t think Silva was pitching well on the side, he may well not have had a job or been sent to the bullpen. The fact is everyone says “spring training games don’t matter”. Its really true.
We kept a guy with a double-digit ERA over a guy who had performed really well.
Anyone want to put Heintz as the starting catcher over Mauer and Redmond - guys who are hitting around .200? The fact is that both Garza and Silva’s ERA’s against uneven competition are irrelevant. And the sports writers know that.
The question then becomes, how do you get your information TT?
Bad information is not better than no information, is it?
Clearly fans are interested in the issue and for the media to have ignored it would have been inappropriate
If the stories at the start of spring training said “The Twins coaches and management don’t think Garza is ready based on last year. They don’t see him mixing his other pitches in this spring. They seem to be protecting him by using him mostly in relief after the major league regulars are out of the lineup.”
“Silva is struggling in games. They are concerned, given last year, but Anderson says he looks great in bullpen sessions. That is what spring training is for.”
Do you suppose the fans would still be as interested? I doubt it. You are mixing up cause and effect.
when you don’t stand by your comments at the end of ST
I don’t see any statements from Gardy that says “we are going to take the pitchers with the best spring training stats north.”
Fran, the “not having it both ways” I referred to was in regard to feeling the media/fans unfairly questioning their decisions. It may indeed work out as a strategy, but rapping media and fans for bringing up an obvious disconnect between his comments at the opening of ST and his actions at the end is where I have a problem.
As for Rogers, I never wish injury or ill-health on any player… but it’s also pretty hard not to see the advantages in having the Tigers demonstrating that they aren’t the automatic winner of the division that so many “experts” are predicting.
If ST stats are important, How is Mauer going north batting .211?
Regards,
I don’t understand the decision to keep Heintz and L. Rod, myself. When will a third-string catcher *ever* get to play? And why have a guy who won’t hit over .220? Venafro could have at least spelled Reyes and gotten an odd lefthanded hitter out. And some other hitter would have been interesting to watch.
Redwings website has Luis Rodriguez on the AAA Roster…is there something we dont konw about, or is it just a mistake?
JimCrikket,
I keep trying to find these definitive quotes by Gardy. They all seem to be quite ambiguous to me.
Of course, I suspect, that Gardy thought fans would know that He, Ryan & Anderson were the ones to decide who is best.
He probably didn’t realize this is “American Idol”.
Regards,
JimCrikket–I think rapping media and fans is also a strategy.
Part of the us-against-the-world card Gardy and the Twins have played often. I’m surprised it still works, but it does. Media and somefans get all hyperbolic as if spring training or who is #2 in the rotation and all these “mistakes,” etc. will trigger an apocalypse and then at the end, the Twins are still standing, or at least contending. I expect the same this season.
Mark, they also have Chris Heintz on the “meet the team” page for the Red Wings, so it’s not an offical roster just yet.
Sparky, I don’t really understand it either, but here’s my best shot.
Mauer’s leg is enough of a concern that they want to use him as a DH more regularly. That means Redmond catches. The “injury risk” means it could cost them the DH if Mauer would have to catch later in the game, but that’s a pretty minor risk that would just mean having to PH for a pitcher once or twice.
More to the point, though, it gives Gardy flexibility to PH for Redmond if the situation calls for it without costing them the DH.
Not saying I believe it wouldn’t be better to have the second lefty, but I suppose that’s the rationale.
That page on the ‘Wings site also says:
The Red Wings’ current team roster can be found in the Press Box, available Thursday 4/5/07
It really doesn’t take much work to find a definitive quote, Dragon.
2/25: “Whoever we think can do the best jobs in those roles right now, that’s who we’ll run out there,” Gardenhire said. “If [Slowey’s] one of ‘em, I wouldn’t be afraid at all. I’m not afraid to put a young man out there and give him the ball.”
Naturally, the manager and GM, with input from the pitching coach, get to decide who they think will “do the best jobs”, but I don’t think it’s totally unfair for media and fans to question their judgement in determining Silva is doing a better job than Garza this spring.
I don’t think it’s totally unfair for media and fans to question their judgement in determining Silva is doing a better job than Garza this spring.
Of course you don’t, the media has spent a full month feeding the idea that there is a competition based on results from spring training games. That was never the case, and Gardy didn’t say it would be.
“Whoever we think can do the best jobs in those roles right now, that’s who we’ll run out there”
So if you want to complain, did the media give you an accurate pitcher of who they thought “can do the best jobs in those roles right now”? I don’t think they did.
Well for the record, I was in Florida for a while and attended a few ST games. I got the pleasure of watching Silva and Garza both pitch and I certainly didn’t need LaVelle to tell me who looked to be doing the better job.
I’m surprised the Tigers aren’t going to have Minor in the rotation instead of Chad Durbin.
Me too. I thought Miner pitched very well for them last year, especially on that soft dirt and long grass.
Bad information is not better than no information, is it?
Good nonanswer! You’re the king. Are you saying that you have no information? I’ll buy that. So your role in this game is just to call everyone’s information bad and not to present your own? That makes sense, now that I think about it. The problem is, your skepticism is selective. You don’t question information that you support. How do you judge what to doubt and what not to without any information to make your judgments? Such is the plight of nihilists.
Are you saying that you have no information?
Obviously not. I have access to much the same information you do - the difference I guess is that I actually evaluate it based on its source. On the other hand, Gardy has a pretty good idea whether the media reports accurately reflected his thinking on who was going to be in the rotation. You apparently choose not to believe him.
You apparently choose not to believe him.
I don’t believe him sometimes when it seems like he’s covering for the organization in a controversial decision.
In the Garza decision, for example, he did not tell the truth when he said that Garza would get another start and he was still in the running for the fifth spot. The next day, they optioned him out before either Garza or Silva started. Was I supposed to just blindly accept what Gardy said?
And then there are the times that I have directly quoted from the sources you and I share and you have claimed that the reporter misquoted or misparphrased or whatever.
We both selectively read information from the same sources. You choose what to believe and I choose what to believe. They are often different. Please don’t suppose that your selection process is better than mine.
There should be a IQ Baseball test before being allowed to post a comment.
JimCrickett,
I personally think Gardy has just a bit of reason to be miffed. Just as Press or fans have every right to question.
If I hear about all the mistakes last year again, I’m gonna puke.
The team won 96 games, the MOST since 1970. At present, one doesn’t make the playoffs, or qualify to play in the World Series based on “style points”.
That’s not directed at you, it’s just that I have followed the Twins from day one. I followed as well as I could from over 1000 miles away. With the internet I listen to the games and read online. Then last October I stumbled onto the Twins Blogosphere and have been astonished that there is no action which is not criticized, considered a mistake, and by implication Ryan & Gardy are idiots. The most positive I’ve heard is that Cirillo signing was OK. If it was me in the crosshairs, I’d wonder if it was worth it to work so hard (and I submit successfully) for such an ungrateful lot.
I say if they’re that bad FIRE’EM!
Regards,
Dragon…well put.
Minnesota’s level of interest in the Twins is a lot higher this year, as evidenced by the increase in ticket sales. With interest comes disagreement. Gardenhire should be glad that Silva finally had a good outing. His judgement was being questioned, and rightly so.
His judgement was being questioned, and rightly so.
Its the fans who criticize him whose judgment that ought to be questioned. What have they ever done that would indicate they have a clue about what it takes to win baseball games?
Dragon, I’m not taking anything you or anyone else says personally. Life’s too short for that.
I don’t know what “day 1″ you’re referring to, but I can say the same thing. I’ve been around long enough to be able to say I’ve followed them since 1961, through good and bad.
I’m not one to claim Gardy and TR are idiots. That’s silly, and it’s equally silly to assume that anyone who ever questions one of their decisions thinks they are idiots.
But for all the team’s success, I don’t think that makes either of them above having any of their decisions questioned. As tired as you are of hearing about last year’s mistakes, some of us are tired of hearing how every critical comment is a result of media conspiracy.
Ungrateful? Hardly. The fact that there IS such interest in the team (and that it is also reflected in ticket/merchandise sales that even the most critical of us invest in) demonstrates that we are grateful for their efforts. But please don’t expect me to blindly accept every decision made as being a good one.
This sort of discussion is a large part of what makes being a fan interesting.
TT, that’s just about the dumbest argument you’ve put out there yet.
Using that logic, nobody who’s never held the same job of another particular person should ever criticize. I could make the same argument, for example, that since only a very small group have ever held the office of POTUS, anyone who criticizes the decisions of a President should have their judgement questioned. Our country was bult on just exactly the opposite principle.
If our duty as citizens is EXACTLY to cast a critical eye on the job performance of our elected officials, certainly a manager of a baseball team should be fair game for occasional questioning without whining too much about it.
Not every decision is the right one. Batista and Castro are good examples of this. I will give credit to them for admitting their mistake and fixing it. No one is perfect not even the Twins FO. I find the reason they sent Garza dfown and decided to keep Silva as ridiculous. The general public doesn’t like to be lied to and it seems that is what Gardy did. There was no ‘competition’ for the starting rotation and they proved that by keeping Silva after his horrible spring. People have every right to be annoyed and questioning a decision. What willl people say if theu have to bring Garza in if Silva doesn’t work out? This is a possibility.
The idea that you cannot question anything is just stupid. That is what sports are all about. No one here is saying that they could do a better job at being GM/Manager, but we can all present our opinions, it’s not un-American to question the government and it’s not un-Twinlike to question the manager or GM.
Also, no-one is saying that you should soley go by ST stats to select your team every year, like Heintz over Mauer because he had a better BA. That’s just stupid. However, this was billed as a competition for the rotation, and I heard SEVERAL times “no-one has a spot in the rotation but Santana”. If that wasn’t true, just say, “we think we know who we like, we’ll see how things work out, and if adjustments need to be made we will make them.” Then, I’d have no problem.
if our duty as citizens
That is perhaps the dumbest comparison I have heard. What does being a baseball fan have to do with citizenship? Its a g*ddamn game, remember? You have nothing to say about what the Twins do - its Carl Pohlad’s private business.
Certainly a manager of a baseball team should be fair game for occasional questioning without whining too much about it.
And certainly a bunch of baseball fans are fair game as well aren’t they? And either one can and do whine about it as much as they want.
Please don’t suppose that your selection process is better than mine.
Why not? I have seen your selection process. You believe stuff you shouldn’t and disbelieve things that are obvious. And you often don’t have your facts straight.
Not every decision is the right one.
Of course they aren’t. But was Castro a mistake? Bartlett insists it wasn’t, that he was a better player after going to AAA. Letting David Ortiz go was a mistake. But there weren’t many fans up in arms about that one.
There was no ‘competition’ for the starting rotation and they proved that by keeping Silva after his horrible spring.
We are back to the same silly argument that the Twins should make roster decisions based on spring training games. Silva did not have a “horrible spring”. According to Anderson, he was doing very well outside of the games.
And Garza didn’t have a good spring. He was still relying on his fastball too much.
So Silva won the job. Live with it.
According to Anderson, he was doing very well outside of the games.
“outside of that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?” LOL
Nora, KB… we’re wasting our time.
LaVelle… not sure if you’re packing up to leave Ft Myers already like Joe is or not… but thanks for providing this forum during the spring and for your insights during camp. Looking forward to a fun season.
Doing well outside of games is not getting it done. Will that be the excuse during the season if things don’t work out?
I would even question whether letting David Ortiz go was a mistake.
Some players are like diamonds – they thrive under pressure. Ortiz is like that. He gets lots of pressure to perform at Fenway, and he does.
Other players are like roses. You give them too much pressure, petals start falling off. That’s not to say they shouldn’t receive any pressure at all – but too much will crush them. I’m anxious to see how well former Twin Doug Mientkiewicz will handle the pressure at Yankee Stadium.
Some players – like Santana – would thrive anywhere – Minnesota, New York – anywhere.
It may not be a coincidence that Silva pitched his best game of the spring the day after learning he had made the team. The pressure was off. He blossomed.
There’ll be pressure again this year, no doubt. Maybe he’ll handle it better, maybe not. We’ll know better by May.
Ya, I’ve learned not to reason with TT at this point. Apparently the Twins’ leadership is infallible and we, as well as just about every scout/writer in all of baseball outside the Twins’ organization, are stupid.
LaVelle, I echo Jim’s thoughts. It’s been absolutely terrific having you guys filling us in out here. Can’t wait for Tuesday!
Jim Crickett,
Glad you’ve been around as long as I have, being from Virginia at the time, I actually started following the Senators several years before the move.
I have no problem with questioning moves management makes, I do it alot. I am not at all in lockstep with all their choices even if my ardent defense might suggest otherwise.
Rather, most obviously to me, the tone of the criticism is harsh, IMHO. Something I would expect as commonplace in NY or Philadelphia. Although I am not from Minnesota, I was lead to believe you are a more sensible sort of folk.
While I disagree with choices made, I also recognize several facts.
First and formost, I am a fan, I am quite frankly not qualified to intelligently question moves, particularly in advance of the play which will provide a basis for judgement.
Second, considering the record of achievement Ryan & Gardy earned, when I think a move is wrong, I don’t trot out saying it’s a mistake. I have learned an awful lot from trying to figure out why the move was made. I have learned so much by trying to reverse engineer the moves. Not every move works out. Some great moves are unsuccessful for unanticipated random factors. Some moves I would call boneheaded (individual plays) are successful for the same reason. Baseball is not a linear game.
Third, there are different styles/approaches. I think the article the other day, which laid out Ryan’s methods, shed light. And those methods have been quite successful. That does not mean there are not other successful approaches, yet I doubt Ryan could be successful with them.
Fourth, I am not wedded to stats, so to me a win is pretty even if the team commits 6 errors and strikes out 14 times, and while I might appreciate the artistic beauty of a 0-1 loss where a basically flawless game was observed, I’ll take the ugly win every day.
Finally, All of the angst over roster moves, particularly Garza/Silva, but you can include Hunter & Silva’s options, and the Ortiz & Ponson signings. Particularly the 3 pitchers, there has been almost universal condemnation without a game being played. It is possible, maybe even likely, that in retrospect they will be provable errors, yet if the Twins makes the play-offs and/or win the Division, they weren’t mistakes, they bought time for better alternatives to present themselves.
Sorry for the rant, I realize as fans we are ardent and often think we KNOW more than I believe we actually do.
Regards,
LaVelle:
Thanks for the blogs, giving us a chance to vent, and air, and rant, and rave, and even applaud the Twins’ moves this spring.
Thanks for all you’ve done to help us stay informed.
“outside of that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?” LOL
Doing well outside of games is not getting it done
You still don’t get it do you? In spring training, getting it done outside the games is as much getting it done as in the games. The games are just for practice.
Of course, that was the original point. The media has built up spring training games to the point that some fans have lost track of reality. Thus Gardy’s complaint.
Lavelle…sorry it’s taken this long to drop a note here to offer our opinion. We’ve been down in Ft. Myers for two weeks (we met you at Pott’s one Sunday night with Jack and yes the reggae band was not good) and have wanted to contribute so better late than never!
From the minor league fields today:
Didn’t find Nicky P. Heard he was around but we were forced! to watch Joe in the AA game so we didn’t see much of the start of the AAA game (Slowey was pitching but we only saw him from the other field). Both games were with Baltimore. Where’s Nick?
I think Joe was 2-3 in the three appearances we saw. He took a hard slide at home (he was out but looked safe) and he did look OK after that. He even walked back to the club house so I would think he’ll play tomorrow.
Garza was scoring the AAA game. We told him that we can’t wait to see him come up soon and he said thanks.
Jerry Bell was keeping a close eye on both games.
Nora,
How many games did the Batista/Castro affair cost the team?
If the season had been started with Bartlett/Cuddyer/Punto in place, is there any guarantee that the resulting team would have gelled any earlier, and gone on that great run?
I humbly disagree with your assessment. The team won 96 games, the most by a Twins team in 36 years. If those are mistakes, I hope the brain trust has more mistakes planned, as it seems it leads to more wins.
Regards,
Dragon, I humbly disagree with your take. Without Castro/Batista, we might have won well over 100. We can’t expect this dramatic comeback as a bailout for bad decisions every year.
Most of us all saw the Batista/Castro mistakes coming. Everyone, it seemed, but TR/Gardy. And we heard the same excuses then that we do now with Silva; “oh, they have a track record, we don’t question them.”
This Silva decision is no different; in fact, it may well be worse. I just fail to see how criticizing TR/Gardy is an afront to anyone.
I love what both have done for the organization and am happy to have them. That does not mean, however, that they are beyond criticism. This is one of those times.
Most of us all saw the Batista/Castro mistakes coming.
Did you also see Punto as the answer at third base? Because I remember people wanting to get rid of him. And did people see Rondell White’s struggles? In June, White’s offensive struggles were certainly worse than Castro or Batistas.
How about Morneau? I think you can find a bunch of fans suggesting he should be sent to AAA to figure things out when he struggled to start the year. Oh - that’s right, he ended up MVP didn’t he?
Then you have Radke and Santana’s early struggles. Did you forsee those too? How about Silva and Lohse? Baker?
How many people forsaw Garza’s struggles last year? Not many of the fans demanding they call him up because he “couldn’t be any worse”. Or the folks that were upset when Bonser was called back up. “Dumb move!” according to the fans based on his earlier struggles.
The problem is that there are dozens of decisions that get made every year. Some of them work, some of them don’t. You can’t keep score by only remembering when you were right.
KB,
Please excuse any inartful communication in my post.
It IS NOT the criticism I object to. Rather it is the tone. In fact, some of it has gone to the personal assult level, IMHO. Gardy Lies!!! Silva also takes much abuse.
I haven’t yet read a Gardy quote that actually says ST stats are how the team will be chosen, and if such a quote exists, I doubt he said which stats. Let’s sure hope not, Mauer wouldn’t make the team. I think most/all of us interpret the statements in a way which mirrors our desires (a maddeningly human thing to do).
IMHO, for whatever reason, fans place too much value on the ST games themselves. The players run drills, work on fielding and throws, pitchers throw side sessions. The games are a place to see, if all the training and teaching we never see, is effective in improving both team and individual players performance. These games give the coaches a place to evaluate progress and assess what needs to be improved.
I think Morneau said on ESPN during the Yankee game, that he has his work in, he’s ready to go and things are quite boring now.
I hope this does not sound like a know it all, just observations I have made over the years.
Regards,
TT,
Punto performed well, sure. He’s STILL not an ideal 3b at all, but yes, he had a good year. Hopefully we will still look to upgrade over him. He should be a utility guy. I would actually argue 3b is the biggest hole on the team, because in the rotation at least we have 3 very capable guys to step in.
White was hurt, plain and simple. You can’t plan for that.
Morneau, I think most of us thought he’d be okay.
Radke was hurt, plain and simple. It’s amazing that he did what he did.
Santana ALWAYS “struggles” to start the year. Who the heck was worried about him?
Silva/Lohse/Baker, noone was too up on those guys.
Garza was in his first stint, was tired as heck with his arm from so manny innings, and STILL performed pretty darn good after his first outing or 2. ERA in the low 4’s I believe after that. Certainly better than Silva will do anytime soon.
So yes, there are a lot of decisions, but now 2 years in a row (it will be shown) Gardy/TR have messed up the most OBVIOUS decision there is.
Dustin,
Unfortunately there is no way to know. You may be correct, I am not convinced. Also, I don’t think it would have mattered (here I could be wrong) as the play-off opponent would not change.
What I do know, at least IMHO, Bartlett came back a different better player. Maybe he would have grown into it anyway, maybe he would have regressed as time went on.
As TT noted, if we wanted to actually identify significant player decisions last year, I am fairly sure that total exceeds 25. Bonser was called up 3 times. On the third call-up he finally GOT IT, the same issue for which Garza was sent down. If you need any proof, take the 6th inning of the Yankee game. Boof started the inning giving up 2 hits I believed. He seemed to be laboring, yet he got out of the inning with 2 strikeouts. Both on offspeed pitches.
None of this means either of us is right or wrong, or some combination thereof. You are probably more savvy than I, yet for me it’s often after the fact that I see the 2nd or 3rd option if option 1 is unsuccessful.
Hopefully, in a couple of days we will all be pulling together for our team, no matter which player wears the jersey. I am confident we will have have lively discussions as to what went right, what went wrong, and in both cases I am sure we will miss more than a few.
My youngest brother says, in our family we all have opinions, and it started early on when the Doctor hit us on the behind, and we let him know what we thought about it.
Regards,
I would actually argue 3b is the biggest hole on the team,
I would agree, although the rotation may turn out to be the biggest one.
we have 3 very capable guys to step in.
One of these guys (Garza, Perkins, Slowey) may be able to step in, but all three of them? Not likely. Not any more likely than that Moses suddenly breaks through, probably less.
Garza was in his first stint, was tired as heck with his arm from so manny innings, and STILL performed pretty darn good after his first outing or 2. ERA in the low 4’s I believe after that. Certainly better than Silva will do anytime soon.
Actually not as well as Silva did during the same period. Garza went 6 full innings only twice in nine starts. In September/October Silva had a 4.28 ERA in 34 IP while Garza had a 6.28 ERA in 29 IP. Both had 6 appearances.
So yes, there are a lot of decisions, but now 2 years in a row (it will be shown) Gardy/TR have messed up the most OBVIOUS decision there is.
What was messed up last year? Bartlett apparently fixed whatever the Twins found lacking, Punto replaced Batista and the Twins won the division.
So all the hot air expended last year was over that maybe (or maybe not) the Twins might have won a handful more games, which turned out to be immaterial, anyway?
Some people now seem determined to beat the dead horse all over again, if only from a slightly different angle. What a waste, IMO.
Enjoooooooy the season.
“You have nothing to say about what the Twins do - its Carl Pohlad’s private business.”
That’s funny, I always thought the game was for the fans. No fans, no game. No game, no private business for Pohlad to make millions off of over the years despite his and other owners’ whining to the contrary.
If Pohlad didn’t realize this then he wouldn’t be the billionaire he is today.
People have every right to complain as well as cheer for any team they want. It is because of this passionate fan base that the game is thriving so well today, evidenced by the gigantic contracts being handed out. If I was an owner, GM or manager and the complaints stopped coming, I would be extremely concerned.
Dragon,
The quotes that I’m referring to are when Gardy said that “no-one has a spot in the rotation but Santana”. That, to me, sounds like the rest will be won by those who perform the best throughout ST. I don’t mean he’s a liar, but I think he could have been more honest in what they were looking for from guys in ST.
I also agree, that disagreements and discussion are the things I enjoy about sports, but there’s no need to tear down someone for having a different opinion.
Why not? I have seen your selection process. You believe stuff you shouldn’t and disbelieve things that are obvious. And you often don’t have your facts straight.
And you don’t ever make mistakes or believe things you shouldn’t? I won’t rehash the number of things you’ve written over the years that are blatantly false or just skewed. I’m not saying I make fewer mistakes than you or anything. I just object at you pretending that you’re the only on e who doesn’t make mistakes and everyone else is just stupid. It’s that attitude that leads to some of the most unproductive and frustrating debates I’ve ever participated in.
Gents, all great posts. I concur with Dragon, Please lay off the personal attacks. And, my pet peeve-leave the politics out of this blog. Meet me at bubba sucks dot com if you want to talk politics. Either that or come with me when I visit my brothers at Balboa each week. I met Cooper Brannan at a formation in December. Awesome Marine and ball player.
Thank you all for the great discussions this past month. Go Twins!
I just object at you pretending that you’re the only on e who doesn’t make mistakes and everyone else is just stupid.
I make plenty of mistakes. And I don’t think I have ever made said anything that that implied everyone else is just stupid or even that anyone is always stupid.
That’s funny, I always thought the game was for the fans.
Your only “duty” as a fan is to enjoy the game.
the influence of the Vikings:
the Silva/Garza tilt looks like Vikings fans clamoring to shelve a veteran and bring out some unproven never-will-be rookie (Andre Ware, anyone?)
a critic is like a eunuch in a harem
they know how it’s done
they see it done all the time
but they can’t do it themselves
go silva
Where is Mike Venafro and why didn’t they call him up instead of some 3rd string catcher? It doesn’t make sense why they screw that kid around.
How add your site to technorats?
How add your site to digg?
How add your site to propeller?
How add your site to reddit?
How add your to reds?
