Twins-Orioles: Baker could miss next start, but for a good reason
Posted on August 24th, 2007 – 5:26 PMBy La Velle
Twins righthander Scott Baker is scheduled to face Baltimore on Sunday but flew to the Twin Cities this afternoon because his wife, Leann, has gone into labor. If Baker doesn’t return in time for his start, look for the Twins to call up righthander Kevin Slowey from Class AAA Rochester for the emergency start.
Slowey is 9-4 with a league-leading 1.73 ERA at Rochester.
The Twins are checking with the league to see if Baker can be placed on bereavement leave so they could just call Slowey up without a corresponding move. There’s word that, a few years ago, a team used the bereavement list for player whose wife had twins. In that case, there was some risk involved with the pregnancy. It’s unclear if this is a similar situation, but Baker did have to rush his wife to the hospital recently for a pregnancy-related issue. Hope everything turns out well for the Bakers. Scott is a bright guy and pleasant to be around.
Yes, Nick Punto, coming off a two-hit night, is back in the lineup tonight. But Gardy wants to have strong defense at third with the lefty Santana on the mound. How many balls will Punto have hit to him if Santana is sizzling again?
Lineups
Twins: 1. Casilla, 2B. 2. Bartlett, SS. 3. Mauer, C. 4. Hunter, CF. 5. Morneau, 1B. 6. Cuddyer, RF. 7. Kubel, DH. 8. Tyner, LF. 9. Punto, 3B. Pitching: Santana.
Orioles: 1. Roberts, 2B. 2. Patterson, CF. 3. Tejada, SS. 4. Millar, 1B. 5. Markakis, RF. 6. Mora, 3B. 7. Huff, DH. 8. Hernandez, C. 9. Payton, LF. Pitching: Guthrie.
706 Responses to "Twins-Orioles: Baker could miss next start, but for a good reason"
Buscher is back, yet Nick Punto is STILL in the lineup. He just will not die.
Well you had to figure after going 2 for 4 last night, Gardenhire would do anything and everything to get him back in there tonight. I am with you though, it has gotten to the point where it is almost comical.
Santana is a flyball pitcher, and it isn’t like Buscher is a blind, armless man out there. It’s just Gardy being Gardy.
Did anybody hear TR on KFAN today? It was pretty funny cause a couple of the callers were just ripping on him.
LEN,
Please ask Gardy this question regarding the lineup:
“Ron, are you aware that Nick Punto is hitting .164 [with a .457 OPS] right handed this year?”
Best wishes to Scott and his wife!
Post the TR recap please 
I like Scott as well. Hope things go well.
Shores, good question.
Austin, you’re right, it is comical. In a Greek tragedy comedy kind of way. Really pathetic.
At least our LF next year, Kubel, is out there again. He needs to play EVERY day the rest of the season and get his bat in a groove heading into next year.
Well the funniest thing of all was when a caller immediately called him out on his comment that the “Twins are a better team with Castillo in the lineup in place of Casilla” was very debatable. After finishing up with the interview, the host of the show even went on a verbal rampage about how for him to say that is absolutely ridiculous. The caller immediately after that comment made the point of saying “I appreciate TR being honest during these questions with the exception of the last response.”
@ shores,
good thing we’re going against a righty tonight.
Shores must have been drinking tonight, although even with a righty starting there is no reason to have LNP in the lineup.
Casilla’s not any worse than Castillo as an overall player at this point. Maybe SLIGHTLY, but the difference in negligible.
Dustin, you must be drinking too because we have seen how many errors on routine plays to Casilla? Sure he can get to more balls than Luis and he hits for a little more power (meaning doubles) than Castillo but he isn’t going to hit for a better average or get on base more.
It sucks how it seems like we are always behind to start the game.
Johan, what is going on, you are getting tagged?
Austin, so basically you just made my argument for me. Thanks.
Defense is about equal. Maybe even a slight lead for Casilla because of range. His errors almost don’t factor in because he gets to so many more than Luis.
Doesn’t hit for the average, but more gap power/out of infield hits, and a MUCH more fearsome baserunner at this point.
Overall, they’re pretty similar right now. Castillo’s not nearly what he once was.
Anyway, just my opinion.
Johan does not have it tonight. He certainly needs to make an adjustment.
oh boy, the sad thing is that the game is basically over the way the offense is doing this year…
Two of the three outs to Punto. Gardy is a genius…
(La Velle lights the fuse and runs away).
Getting ready for everyone complaining how Santana doesn’t have it this year based on this game. LOL
Holy crap…are we STILL talking Casilla vs. Castillo?
And somebdoy quick, get your Santana trade talks in now! You might be able to convince a few people that he actually sin’t a good pitcher anymore.
Johann, M&M, Cuddy……….everyone’s a little off this year (at least!).
If Rondell or his replacement had been helping the offense, I wonder how much more focus our stars on the team would have done.
Johan is just trying to motivate the offense to score more than 1 run for him….right?
Dustin, no he might have a bit more range, but we aren’t seeing Casilla make any web gems. We are however seeing him get in the way of other infielders on balls he has no reason being near and also not taking charge on balls that he should. His errors clearly factor in. You can see his youth and inexperience. At the plate, he might hit for more doubles than Luis but in order for him to use that speed as a baserunner he has to get on base, which he does less than Luis.
T, yeah actually if you read the previous entries on this blog we were referring to an interview TR did today on the radio.
Obviously young and inexperienced players will make mistakes like that. Which is why you put them in there to give them the experience so they eventually stop making those mistakes.
I don’t really see the problem here, he’s a good player with lots of potential; the Twins have to work on young guys so they can actually afford to field a team. We can’t be full of superstars.
The problem that most people see is that with that move, the Twins waved the white flag.
Heckuva play by Santana in that situation!
That was an awesome play by Johan at third.
Johan is mourning the Venezuelan loss in the Little League games.
wow, he really has to do everything by himself :S
I don’t think they waved the white flag, I think TR just failed to get a second trade done before the deadline.
Problem is people are giving Castillo too much credit. With Castillo team was around .500 without him? About the same.
Nora, they would probably be about 3 games better without him. Enough to take the division lead. Of course not, but at the same time closer than we are currently at. Can somebody please get a hit already? Why do I find myself saying this all too frequently?
Thank you Hunter. Morneau, it is about time for you to break outta your funk!
Who drives in Castillo though? They have been in quite a funk. I don’t think Castillo would change that too much.
Hunter does.
Yrah, Hunter hasn’t done that everytime. Even with Hunter the team has left plenty on base.
You can’t rely on one player to drive everyone in. That is why they are struggling.
Well of course nobody is going to do it everytime. My point is that if we the middle of our order started seeing more RISP then they would probably be less likely to try and swing for the fences.
There have been times where there has been plenty of oppurtunities to do that and they still did not get it done.
Ok Nora, I think it is time for your bedtime at 7. You are starting to sounds very tired.
Austin, I concur totally with your take on Castillo. Casilla is going to be a good player and I’m glad the Twins have him. But there will be growing pains. Obviously TR didn’t think the Twins were in a pennant race (probably right) or he would not have traded Castillo IMO. Castillo is a more accomplished player and has had a good career. Casilla is just starting out and might be better than Castillo one day but that day is not today. I’m glad thta Casilla is getting the work in this year but would still have preferred having both on the roster. Use Castillo as the DH and allow him to walk after the season. On the other hand, TR is banking that on of the guys he got for Castillo pan out.
Of course there are going to be situations like that, what I am saying is for the most part.
Dana- Thank you! Also I heard a good point on the radio today about keeping both guys and letting Casilla play third base. There is no reason he couldn’t play third to finish this season out.
You need to look back at some games because I am not making it up. You act as if the Twins have had very little oppurtunities with RISP. At times they have had oppurtunities but couldn’t drive anyone in.
That would have been an intersting idea. I think both bats in the lineup could have been a boon. But of course unless Morneau and the others get some power it wouldn’t have mattered. So, how much longer can Morneau go before hitting a HR?
I am just pointing out that is the Twins record really all that different then when we had Castillo? I am not seeing it.
Like I said Nora, of course there are going to be opportunities like that. At the same time don’t put the 1 for 26 or whatver it was to begin the last homestand squarely on the shoulders of the middle of the order. When you fail to a potent offensive lineup from 1-9 out there on a daily basis, your whole team is going to suffer.
Nora, like I said I would give it three games.
Man, this game is on speed dial. It is going fast. That is what happens when one team isn’t getting on base.
There is a classic example of the indecision of Scotty Ullger. Either send him or else hold him up. Geeze we don’t have a ton of chances to score every night.
pay a little attention tyner, mhkay?
The play like that there by Kubel is another reason they don’t score enough. They run themselves out of innings.
I just don’t think so Austin. I think it would be about the same. Maybe 1 game.
So, what happened on the play at home? Should he have not gone?
Well there is typical Punto. I am so glad you have him out in the field for his defense Gardenhire!
Austin, what would the difference be? Your best friends Punto and Casilla would be coming up next, and since you know everything, you know they can’t get the run in.
The can’t play long ball or small ball effectively. It’s amazing they are above .500 at the moment.
Jason Kubel shouldn’t worry - I’m sure someone here can make both outs Nick Punto’s fault.
scottie didnt hold up kubel properly and he slipped when he tried to get back to 3rd
Nora, just out of curiousity, how old are you? I haven’t heard of a Nora that is under the age of 65 in my lifetime.
Nice catch by Cuddy!
THis team of all teams can not afford to give up runs. I just hope that Johan will keep them in it.
Sean- The difference would be in that situation, you have to score him. Otherwise if you decide that you can’t, I assume that you agree with my position on Casilla.
All right, Bartlett with an AP spin move
I am 28. Yep, not alot of people with my name.
Bullseye!
who thought tyner could throw this far?
Well that is about the only situation where Tyner is going to get an OF assist. Jason, you also better buy Mauer a steak dinner after the game.
Carolyn, that was hardly a bulleyes from Tyner. Casilla nice work so far tonight!
This offense is absolutely pathetic!
Austin, we already know this. This is mentioned in every game thread lol.
Nora- It simply can not be stated enough.
Who woulda guessed it, Hunter swinging at a first pitch?
They could definately be a little more patient. This swing at the 1st or 2nd pitch is not working.
It does get tough to watch but being a lifelong Twins fan I just can not look away. But I still feel these guys are better than this and it just amazes me at times how bad they can be.
Austin - it got there, he got the out. Isn’t that good enough for you?
Nora - thank you for pointing that out!
Well, it is working for the Orioles though. Geesh.
Carolyn- No actually it is not. The throw was off target. I want a throw right to Mauer so he doesn’t have to dive over to tag the runner.
Well Johan, there goes your quality start.
You know Johan is just getting p***ed after this outing as well as his last outing. TR, if you aren’t going to surround me with a decent offense, then expect me to move on to a bigger market in 2009.
The last outing he won and this one where he doesn’t have a quality start? Maybe the last one with only getting 1 run of support. This one he can only be mad at himself he gave up 3 runs in the 1st inning. The bad offense is not helping but he didn’t exactly have an outing you need to have when you are the ace.
It’s still a Quality Start. QS is 4 runs or less over 6 or more innings.
Finally, a homer for Morneau!
THere you go Morneau. That’s gotta be a good feeling. Now, keep doing it.
T, are you serious? A quality start is 3 runs or less over 6 or more innings.
There we go, now let’s go boys keep it up Kubel!
The drought is over….that must be like removing a huge rock off of Morneau’s back. Too bad no one was on base.
I thought it was 3.
Ok. One run off. My bad.
Thatta boy Jason, way to stick it on the board. Nice!
OK Austin - that had to be good enough for you! Woo hoo Justin and Jason!
I’m sorry - I just enjoy baseball - even when they’re not winning.
Here comes some offense.
Nora, what I was beginning to say is that after he gave up three in the first in this start and then we don’t score until the 7th. That has to be depressing for a pitcher. Tyner, don’t stop this now.
It is three. That’s my mistake. I think Bert misspoke earlier because the last thing I heard it was four.
But it is three, that’s my mistake.
Speaking of three. 
There ya go!!! Three games of runs in one inning.
Carolyn- Trust me, I enjoy baseball too, that is why I have MLB TV. I also like to have my team be productive.
Now, if we can only gt a homer from Punto…sorry, got carried away.
Well, it is depressing for hitters I am sure as well to be in a 3-0 hole after the 1st too. LOL
Why is Punto swinging at a 3-1 pitch? There is no reason for him to be doing that unless he gets a hit. Did somebody not remind him that he is hitting .202?
Now you gotta send Casilla here. If he gets thrown out, you deal with it.
I agree Austin. Most of the time Punto should hope for a walk. LOL
Regardless of this game’s outcome…the offense the last few games has scored what…3 or more runs?
It’s not an explosion, but it’s a start.
Well I rest my case with Casilla. How many times are you gonna forget how many outs there are?
Nora- Would you like to try and give him an excuse for that play?
Need a big Mauer hit right here. T, you are right. It’s a start. They need the big boys to come alive and flash some power.
Nora- I am still waiting.
Still doesn’t mean we would win more if we had Castillo. No excuse, it was a mistake. It happens.
Mauer is the worst clutch hitter, I hope I am eating these words a minute from now
Nora- For some reason it happens more often than not with Casilla.
.347 with RISP.
bases loaded, casilla’s boo-boo is a moot point now
Apparently they want to face Hunter instead.
Hunter can earn next years contract now
Please don’t bail him out Torii. Take a strike here.
Mack- With his speed, you never know how far around the bases he woulda been.
way to go Hunter you loser
Darn it Torii!
[WATCH THE LANGUAGE]
And RISP nobody scores.
ullger’s conservative, he’d have held him up, look at the kubel play
Well, we’ll see what the Baltimore bullpen is made of.
Ulger sent Kubel home that one inning, Kubel ewas the one who went back
Johan- You gotta stick a 0 on the board here.
No doubt. Whichever decision he has to make he usually picks the one that gets a player thrown out.
Kevin- No there is where you are wrong. He started to wave him in and then put up a super late stop sign.
Not the first time Ullger has done that. It usually ends up with the same result.
This will be the last time I check this Blog. Austin, you are pathetic.
I disagree Austin, not the way I saw it
at any rate, he should have held him the whole time
Burnsville, that is good. Go back to being a cake-eater.
if Johan loses it, it is one he deserves to lose, unlike others where he pitches lights out and the batters dont score for him
Good one Austin, isn’t it time for mommy to change your diaper? Or, aren’t you done playing with your poop yet. Shithead.
There’s the reason to stop checking the blog, little kids fighting
I was just thinking that, mack. LOL
Burnsville, actually no she is not in bed, cake-eater!
Thatta boy Justin! Let’s go now Cuddyer.
Almost another HR. Nice.
that was some kind of slide!
Thatta boy Justin! Let’s go now Cuddyer.
Yes ma’am Burnsville.
We may be seeing the start of one of Morneau’s big runs. That would be great to watch. The big fella can really carry this team.
Alright there we go. Let’s get another good at-bat Kubel!
Good decision to stay at 3rd there. Justin is many things but a fast runner is not one of them.
Austin and Burnsville, please knock off the personal attacks and talk about the game. Either that or shut it down for the night.
This is not the Vikings blog….
Nora- I agree, that is a situation where you need to hold the runner with nobody out.
Please don’t pop up or strike out Jason. Please. LOL
Sorry LEN3.
Thank you LEN III
That will work, nice work Kubel!
I love cheese kurds and the Australian fried potatoes. I also love the Twins.
That will work. We’ll take a sac fly.
I am still a believer in Kubel and still think he may be a very good player. I think he deserves next year to prove it. If he can finish strong here the rest of the year it would undoubtedly be arel morale booster and potentially answer at least one question mark for next year.
Tyner is working the bat tonight. Please LNP, all I ask is for a sac fly since the infield is going to be brought in.
Nice, Red Dog is up!
Good decision Gardy!
Boo they are walking him. Guess I am not surprised they want an out on all the bases.
Well Casilla, it is up to you. Give us at least a sac fly or else a slow roller.
Thank you Alexi. Great at bat!
Nice!
I see fire in the dugout.
The feed here in Fla.on MLB extra innings is the Baltimore station. Is it the same in the TC’s?
I can see why it was possible to score 30 against them. The Baltimore bullpen is atrocious.
Floridafan, if you are in the Minnesota region, you have the Twins game on FSN.
Well, would you all let Santana come out for the 8th? I would.
Of course it isn’t the Vikings blog.
I’m up on the north side of Tampa in Wesley Chapel.
Well I hope Cali doesn’t come in. He was the only one shown warming up earlier this inning. Who does everyone else think should come in? I say it has to be Neshek.
LEN3, I will refrain from commenting back to Burnsville. I know you gave us each our warning and I would think his last comment would constitute a ban from the board.
Ron Johnson is presumptious. We hope so though.
Cali?
Nora- Once again it is the lefty-lefty thing (or in the case of Roberts, turning him around to bat from the right side). I sure hope C. Patterson doesn’t make them pay.
Good decision. LOL
Now onto Neshek. Nice work tonight by Carmen.
Can I tell everyone how excited I am to see TWO Sac Flies in this game? We have to be at the bottom of the league in that category. To me that is a sign of execution, getting the runner in scoring position less than two outs and getting the run in.
This game and this month is why I’m so high on Kubel. Granted he’s been very inconsistent. But that comes from, IMHO, Gardy’s use of him. Also he’s got about enough AB to say his rookie year is behind him. Still aways off from the “1000″ AB plateau. His pitch recognition is getting better, which was killing him earlier. He just looks more comfortable and is driving the ball. I’m not worried about LF next year.
Two down Cali!!
At the risk of getting too far ahead, here are the matchups for rhe Cleveland series.
Silva-Byrd
Bonser-Westbrook
SANTANA-SABATHIA
To add onto that LEN3, right now KC is ahead of the Tribe 2-0 in the bottom of the 5th in KC.
Going to be hard to sweep Cleveland. Not that I didn’t know that before finding out the matchups. LOL
Nora- You are just in a laughing mood tonight, aren’t you?
Guess so.
It’s like we are witnessing Deja Vu. I hope tonight’s outcome can be the same as last night.
I have read some earlier comments bashing Gardy. I can’t see how anyone can blame Gardy for anything. He does a great job keeping everyone fresh and sharp and managing a ballgame. It’s not much different than the way TK managed.
has23- Except for there is no way that TK would have continued to stick LNP in the lineup night after night
Way to add some insurance Torri. Thatta boy!
Woohoo Hunter!
Torii does it again!
Some guys need playing time to keep their groove though, but all in all its a good approach.
The Baltimore announcers sound like huge Hunter fans.
What other choice does Gardy have other than Punto. I realize Punto has been horrible at the plate this year, but you have to love the guy. Obviously production at the plate is important, but I would hate to see him go. He probably needs to be a full time utility player.
T Hunt is getting very expensive…
Has23
Fresh and sharp? I think this year more than any other in Gardy’s tenure, we’ve seen more mistakes. Bad basecoaching, poor execution, awful baserunning, bullpen selection, lineup choices. I think we’ve “given” away more games this year than any other year. I’m not bashing Gary, I think he is a good fit for this team. But lets be honest, this year no one gets a free pass. From the players, to the coaches, to management.
JP- I agree 100%.
has23- Exactly like you said Punto should be a utility player. Not somebody that is in the lineup 5 out of every 7 days. As far as who you would put in there in place of him, I would definitely go with Buscher.
Over the last four games, the Baltimore bullpen has given up 33 runs in innings 7-9.
Nice Eye Kubel. Did anyone mention he joined the 50 RBI club tonight?
Lineup choices?
What choices do they have? There are not too many hitters in the minors waiting for the call up.
The Twins are short quality and experienced 3b, 2b, ss, rf, and lf. That is 5 of the 9 players.
The Tigers and Indians have better lineups. That is not Gardy’s choice.
Twins-7 unanswered runs. How often can you put those together?
has23- Regardless of inexperience, Buscher in place of Punto. Also, how are the Twins of short quality and experience in RF with Cuddyer?
Nice to see the offense pick up Johan for a change.
Another great come from behind win from the boys! Let’s hope KC can keep it up.
Austin
If you say you would go with Buscher, I hope you are not one of the people ripping on the Twins for waving the white flag. Not too many teams can make the playoffs with two infielders called up right in the middle of the playoff run.
has 23
rf? Are you kidding me? Cuddy
2b Castillo most of the year Casilla now.
lf tonights a perfect example of why Gardy has been wrong. instead of giving ABs to Lew Ford and Rondl give them to Kubel and Tyner
SS we have last years full time starter returning Bartlett easy to write in
Only 3rd base would i agree with you.
And lineup choices include batting order. which has bordered on bewildering sometimes.
i listed several areas i think the coaching staff has been deficient. you selected one to respond to.
Austin-
You are right - I didn’t mean to add RF.
I must have been thinking of all those games Cuddyer missed and Tyner replaced him in RF.
Twins LF are @ 13 hr, 62 rbi & .227
League Avg. is 14 hr, 68 rbi & .271.
Real close except for the AVG.
Twins 3B are @ 4 hr, 323 rbi & .233
League Avg. is 15 hr, 63 rbi & .262
Not even close
Twins DH are @ 3 hr, 49 rbi & .264
League Avg is 16 hr, 68 rbi & .264
Not even close except for AVG
If we can get a couple of guys to come close to league average we are laughing all the way to the playoffs.
That should be 32 rbi for Twins 3B, sorry fingers going faster than the brain!
has23- After your comment about RF, I don’t think anybody needs to comment to you because I think that shows your negligence of following baseball. As far as the third base situation, I don’t see how starting a player who is a better hitter than LNP is considered waving the white flag.
where did you get those stats mack?
Well regardless of where you got those stats Mack, LF is actually very close.
Mack- My bad, I just read the comment under the DH and thought that was for all of them. Now I see that you commented at each position. I apologize.
JP,
I’ve been plenty critical of Gardy this year at times, especially when it comes to LNP….but not on Kubel.
Here we go again…whenever Kubel gets hot, people come on these blogs and cry bloody murder that it’s all Gardy’s fault for not playing him everyday.
Let’s be clear about this, folks. The only reason Kubel hasn’t been in the lineup everyday this year is he’s played himself out of the lineup with consistent stretches of 1-for-20 or 1-for-15. You can’t play a guy everyday who does that. Gardy would’ve been more than happy to play Kubel everyday this year, but you cannot keep him in there when his hitting spirals to .235.
I agree with BC when it comes to the Tyner / Rondell situation, however. I do not understand the Twins approach with Rondell. You have a viable, though punchless, .285 hitter in Tyner, and you let him sit on the bench for damn near two weeks while you toy with Rondell White. Then when you finally can’t take any more with Rondell, you claim you stopped playing him because of his knees.
His knees? What about the .138??????
We’ve heard every viable excuse there is when it comes to Rondell…can’t play on turf, only hits well when he plays the field, etc. etc. etc. Meanwhile, you allow him to rot in the lineup when you’ve had absolutely zero evidence than he would do anything but rot. All of this while you have a .285 hitter with speed twittling his thumbs on the bench and, oh, by the way, the lineup is desparately struggling to score runs.
As I’ve said a million times on here…Rondell White must be a REALLY nice guy.
Next year:
LF - Kubel is solid
CF - ? Managment must know something or they screwed up by not trading Hunter
RF - Cuddyer
3B - Who knows?
SS - Bartlett is improving and is solid
2B - Casilla will have a goodl year
1B - Morneau
C - Mauer
Utility - Punto
The starting pitching will be much better without trying a bunch of washed up players or question marks. The young guys are solid. Liriano will not be fully back, but will help.
Crain will help the bullpen. It should continue to be a solid group. It might be getting about time to trade Nathan.
Doesn’t look like a bad team. I think they are two years away. It would be nice to have this group with Johan.
Exciting game, nice burst in the last 3.
That O’s pen is ugly — just … ugly.
Austin, I agree, I’d like to see Buscher playing in front of Punto. Still, can’t really blame Gardy for his lineups … chicken crap; chicken salad; etc.
ESPN team stats. Pretty interesting stuff. You can even check by batting position.
Jason you are wrong in your comments. Gardy plays the one who’s name shall not be mentioned here by me all the time in even though he’s 0 for his last (insert number here).
Yes, mack, and I’d rip him for that too.
Bottom line there is defense (supposedly) is more valuable in the infield, so said nameless player, who, funny, couldn’t back up a 2-for-4 night with a hit tonight, can at least be justified defensively.
But if you don’t give Kubel days off when he goes through struggling stretches he is not going to get better. It’s the law of diminishing returns. And more importantly, it hurts the team in the interim.
And as sad as it is to say, Tyner has been a more consistent hitter this year for Kubel, so, unlike that player who shall remain nameless, there is another option.
Again, I think Gardy has played it correctly when it comes to Kubel. It’s awesome what he’s done the last three games, but all-in-all he’s been very inconsistent this season. Whatever happened to that great second half everyone said he was supposed to have?
Nice comeback win for Twins and Johan.
Good to see Morneau leave the yard. Punto was the only starter without a hit. Go figure? But knowing Gardy, Punto will be back at 3B Saturday and after his big night Kubel will be back on the bench!
has 23: Who is your D-H?
Does anybody know if the rookie that the O’s are supposed to be calling up to start tomorrow night is a righty or lefty?
Jason
I don’t want to get sucked back into this debate. There is no arguement from here that Kubel has been inconsistent. He started the year with roughly 300 career MLB, basically in his rookie year. He’s by far the most talented option at LF and with his potential, I do blame Gardy. How many nights was it where Kubel would go 2-4 with a double and then be sitting the next night? Yes he’s had 1-15 streaks. So has every other hitter on our team. Do you sit Mauer when he goes o-fer right after coming off the DL? Or Morn before this night has been awful. I’m night saying Kubel should be treated like them, but you want a rookie to stop hitting inconsisten like a rookie, you give him ABs and get him out there. Someone just posted Kubel’s numbers this month. I expect more in the future and personally believe Gardy slowed Kubel’s progress.
Just my opinion and we can agree to disagree.
BTW How is Ford doing? Haven’t heard any updates from you in awhile.
Well I found out that he is a right-hander. So I sure hope Kubel is still in the lineup tomorrow night along with Buscher at third.
DH - I also have no idea for next year.
Jones might be the DH of the future.
I hope you are kidding about Jones being the DH of the future, unless you are talking about Jacque.
Well, believe what you want JP, but I’ll defer to Gardy on this one.
I’ve ripped Mauer plenty but I laugh my a$$ off when I hear you compare Kubel to Mauer. Mauer is a .300 hitter, Kubel was down to .230 at times this year (300 plus ABs in), so no, it’s absolutely not a comparison from when Mauer goes cold to when Kubel goes cold.
The point is we’re dealing with short memories here. Kubel has a couple of good games and everyone wants him in each and every night. When Gardy goes to the Kubel-every-night approach he ends up with a .240 hitter. You can’t have it both ways. I like Gardy’s way, personally.
Gardy wanted Kubel to play everyday from day one this season–either at DH or LF. It was Kubel, not Gardy, who changed that plan.
Ford was 0-for-3 yesterday with a walk and a stolen base. I have not seen a box score from tonight’s Rochester game yet…I’m guessing it just ended a little bit ago. Good to hear you’re still interested, however.
Hang on Royals.
Jones is leading Rochester in doubles, homers, extra base hits, rbi, and walks.
Who is a better option for the future. There might be someone in AA. This is a reason they need to trade Hunter and Nathan. I love them both, but I don’t think they are in the plans for 09 or 10.
This just in JP…Ford 2-for-3 tonight with two doubles in Rochester’s 6-3 win over Scranton. Wow, I thought no one wanted to hear about him anymore.
We need to see a lot more of Buscher in the next five weeks. I hope he can be a major league average third sacker, at least against RH pitching. I have made several comments about Kubel. He is still young (younger than Buscher, Bartlett, Baker, or Bonser), has some pop and will likely hit for a good average. Probably the #1 thing he has proven is that he is a decent defensive outfielder. If he finishes strong, his numbers will look okay, but he needs to hit to be a fixture in the lineup.
How about Lamb or Feliz @ 3B for one or two years as a stop gap until Buscher, Macri, Tolbert, etc… are ready
How old are Lamb and Feliz?
has23- It is called a free agent acquisition for DH.
Jason- Sorry, I know am I am not the first person to inform you of this, but Lew Ford sucks!
Lamb will be 32, Feliz will be 33
I just get a kick out of who you pick your loyalties for.
If you took my comparison of Kubel to Mauer as anything other than a reference, you’re an even bigger idiot than I thought. Point is all players go through slumps, all players hurt their teams when in those slumps. Kubel, as a near rookie with have them and they will be more pronounced because he’s learning on the job. You have to learn on the job in this situation. And Kubel is hitting .375 with an OPS over 1.0 Both best on the team.
It may be you just don’t have as much belief in Kubel as I do.
No prob Austin, so does Hormel (I can tease cause my best friend’s dad works there).
I was only passing along info that JP wanted, even though he was being sarcastic about it.
Thank you flatblade, my point exactly re Kubel. Gotta play him.
LOL Austin, don’t try convincing Jason of anything other than how great Lew is.
I think it is safe to say that everybody is sick and tired of Lew Ford and they don’t want to see him in September although he will definitely be called up.
This month regarding Kubel’s stats.
Nice name calling.
The Mauer comparison was more than a reference and you know it. What you were saying was Mauer goes through struggles but he continues to play everyday. My counter to that was simple–you can’t compare Mauer’s struggles to Kubel’s struggles.
I have belief (more like hope I guess) in Kubel. I just am not willing to play him everyday when he consistently hits .240. Not when Tyner is available and he consistently hits .285. That’s what it boils down to, to me. I submit that if Kubel played everyday for the rest of the season he’d probably end the year at .245 with 12 HRs. Not a reason to give up on a young player, but also not a reason to trot him out everyday when you’re in a pennant race and you have a more consistent option.
Let me be clear. I think Kubel should play for the next few games…but if he sinks into 0-for-15 again, you don’t let that become 1-for-25, you go to a .285 hitter instead.
Sorry Kubel’s stats for the month are .385 and 1.006 OPS.
Austin -
The Twins have a great history of signing free agent hitters. The list of their free agent aquisitions can go on and on.
It must be your first year following the Twins.
JP you obviously didn’t read flatblade’s comment that carefully…he said he needs to hit more to become a fixture in the lineup. I agree whole-heartedly.
People seem to think Cuddyer got the RF job because Gardy woke up one day and decided to play him a bunch. Wrong. He got it because he went through a sustained stretch of good hitting….one we’ve yet to see from Kubel despite ample opportunity.
Nice- KC beats the Tribe. Twins only 5.5 back.
Royals win! 5.5 back!
Royals win!
has23- No actually I am sure that I have been a fan for a couple decades longer than you. I realize that they normally don’t sign a bunch of “big name” free agents. At the same point, we don’t need a “big name” free agent, we only need a player that be decent. This is barring the fact that we either resign Torii or else get somebody like Rowand as a replacement.
It wasn’t more than a reference. I stated it perfectly before. ALL players go through struggles. Young players have pronounced struggles. A ballplayer can’t learn to work through these struggles unless he’s out there. Its HANDS ON TRAINING. No substitute.
Tyner couldn’t dream of a OPS of over 1.
Jason
Cuddyer struggled a little bit before he finally took off too. I think Kubel will be a solid LF and DH option.
I hope so has23…but again, go back and look….it was a long, sustained stretch of good hitting that earned Cuddyer that job…not two nights or two weeks of good hitting….
If Cuddy had fizzled into a .240 hitter in ‘05 he would not have kept his RF job everyday. That’s all I’m saying….it doesn’t work in reverse…you have to earn it.
Cuddy wasn’t in RF in ‘05, Jones was.
Pardon me, I meant ‘06 not ‘05.
I like Kubel as our LF next year too. Don’t get me wrong I’d love a guy that could bat 300 with power but it aint going to happen. TR isn’t bringing in a budget buster. So we really only have our farm teams and rule 5 to pull from. I’ll take kubel. for me this year was about proving his knee could hold up to playing the position. It has. I only ever expected 260 and 15 HRs from him this year anyway and he aint far off that. I’m not sure what everybody else thought. but I think he’s coming along fine.
Jason
What is a “sustained stretch of good hitting” a month? He’s done that. I’m done arguing semantics with you. Continue to back Tyner, a career .274 hitter (not .285) with an OPS of .635. AND no upside.
Cuddyer hit .263 with 12 HR in over 400 AB in ‘05. How do those stats compare to Kubel?
It would sure be nice if the Twins could find a sleeper out there like Brian Harper or Shane Mack to help out the offense next year. And it would be even nicer if Terry Ryan made one more effort to find us a bat for the rest of this year.
I’m not backing Tyner. I too think Kubel is the choice in LF next year (although this is more of a hope than an assurance).
What I am backing is how Gardy has handled Kubel’s playing time this year. He hasn’t had a sustained stretch of solid hitting this year…August has been by far his best month…so no, the argument that April-July would’ve been a lot better if he played more doesn’t sit with me. He played plenty…but it wasn’t working.
Gardy’s no idiot…he’s not going to hold Kubel back when things are going good. You simply cannot point to a stretch this season when he’s done as well as he has in August…and by the way, he hasn’t played everyday in August either…so what’s your point, really?
anyone watching Channel 5 news tonight? They are broadcasting from the fair.
Leah McLean doesnt look NEARLY as good without her studio make up on.
wow Kevin that was random
My point is the same as it always has been. Make Kubel your everyday player. Very simple and hasn’t changed at all.
Kubel ‘07 Cuddyer ‘05
325 AB 422
.258 average .263
.422 SLG .422
.314 OBP .330
10 HR 12
50 RBI 42
The stats look pretty similar.
Sorry - My previous post does not look very good. It took out all the spaces.
I agree with JP - Kubel should play every day in ‘08.
precisely has23, so what’s the problem?
Cuddyer played 3/4 time in ‘05 like Kubel has in ‘06, which makes sense because they both were below average–but I would argue Kubel’s ‘07 is even worse than Cuddyer’s ‘05.
It wasn’t until after Cuddyer stepped his game up in ‘07 that he became a full-time player. It didn’t work the other way around…it wasn’t like he was handed a job and ran with it…he out played Lew Ford that spring and earned it and never looked back…but as I said, he would not have continued to play everyday in ‘06 if he didn’t back up his hot spring with consistency throughout the year.
JP seems to want Kubel to be given the everyday job BEFORE he is able to prove consistency. It doesn’t work that way for outfielders in the American League. Your position is too flexible to handcuff a team with prolonged inconsistency.
At this point, I agree…I’ll give Kubel the LF job in ‘08…but if at the end of May he’s hitting .240 or under with 2-3 HRs, you have to consider other options.
You can’t take a three-game stretch and say “see, that’s evidence he should play everyday”.
I don’t see why that’s so tough for everyone to digest. Until you prove you can hit .270 or higher over the course of a full season (or the equivalent) you cannot expect to be trotted out there everyday as an outfielder in the American League.
Jason -
I agree with what you are saying. I do think Kubel will break out next year and have a great year. He was ready to take over the the RF job until he messed up his knee.
He will have to prove he is ready to take over LF.
So Gary Matthews Jr., Vernon Wells, Johnny Damon, Jermaine Dye and Nick Swisher should not be everyday outfielders (none of them are hitting .270).
How can you argue that Kubel’s 06 is worse? He’s put up stats similar to Cuddy’s in 100 less ABs. Again you make no sense.
Lew Ford started out playing like such horse sheet in RF that they GAVE Cuddy the chance. Which he responed to by producing. Yeah that was the year Ford hit .226. So Cuddy didn’t push his way through, Ford was so gawd awful Gardy moved Ford and we saw the results. Again Jason you argue semantics and then make statements that are backed up by Nothing.
I do want to give Kubel the everyday job so he can develop faster and become more consistent.
well mack, all the guys on your list have either one of two major pluses that kubel has yet to show–power and RBI or speed, which offsets their avg.
.250 with no power and no speed equals no everyday play in the outfield in the AL.
Again, JP you’re having trouble reading tonight. I said that Kubel’s ‘07 is worse than Cuddy’s ‘06….and as far as the Cuddyer / Ford thing in ‘06….go back and look at Cuddy’s stats from day to day, because you’re going to see some numbers that Jason Kubel has yet to prove he’s capable of.
Quit pretending Kubel’s already there. We get it…you’re on board, you think he’s going to take off…we’ve been waiting for that all ‘07 and it basically hasn’t happened until the last three days….so yes…let’s give him more…but not the key to the city. Cuddyer got the key to the city in ‘06 because his numbers made him indispensible, not because Ford was inept (which I am not disagreeing with–Ford had a terrible ‘06). Heck, Cuddy went from batting 8th in the lineup to hitting cleanup–you think Ford had anything to do with that????
It’s funny, at the beginning of the year we were using Cuddy as proof that gardy should give more time to developing players. that they just need playing time to develop. And now we’re using Cuddy as proof that you shouldn’t. That you need to wait until they prove they’re ready to handle it. I don’t know which is right, it’s just funny how the worm turns.
In this case, the options are a bit limited. It seems pretty inconsistent that we would trade Castillo in the name of making room for Casilla and in the next breath not commit to Kubel.
All you said was .270, read your own post.
Jason
I’m looking at the game logs right here.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7061/gamelog;_ylt=Aj2A_h5uEJkOABH_aOifIXWFCLcF?year=2006
Ford hit .214 and in April of 06
Cuddy hit .256 in April of 06 (about what Kubel has hit so far)
Cuddy didn’t earn his keys to the city. Ford was awful and got replaced by someone who was less awful. Cuddy then for the first time in his career was playing consistent and started to produce.
Don’t know how I can make it any clearer than that.
I know that’s what I said, but am I allowed to clarify? Kubel would never be taken out of the lineup if his .255 was accompanied by great speed and 20 HRs.
Anyway, I do get that irony Kurt and find it funny too. But I wasn’t the one screaming that Cuddy is proof that all Kubel needs is to play everyday. Again, I think people have this one backwards…if you go back and look…Cuddy played himself into an everyday player–that’s the way it should be. Once you’ve done it, then yes, you don’t have to look over your shoulder anymore. Cuddy didn’t do it in ‘05, but he did it in ‘06. And it wasn’t because the Twins were faced with either Ford or Cuddy. They would’ve found someone else if Cuddy faltered after his hot start…
So I’m guessing you stopped looking after April huh?
We gave Kubel April and May this year…and June…and part of July…and part of August….his plane never left the runway the way Cuddyer’s did.
Cuddy gave us one month of .256 and went markedly up from there….Kubel has given us 4 months of .250…it’s no comparison.
Again, if Cuddy comes back to mediocrity after April he doesn’t stay in RF, period.
And in ‘05 if Cuddy hadn’t been on the DL and not available for the first week of September, he would have played in 145-150 games, that’s everyday to me.
Hey guys-
How many AB did Cuddyer have before he broke out in ‘06?
How does that compare to Kubel?
I am not sure how this compares, but I don’t feel like Kubel has had as many AB as Cuddyer did before he started to become more consistent.
Thank you, mack.
And Kubel’s ABs for April-June of this year compare to Cuddy’s for April-June of ‘06.
So again, quit pretending Kubel wasn’t given a chance to play everyday.
I didn’t stop looking Jason. I saw a hitter approaching 1000 career ABs (Cuddy) that was given the job (after Ford showed he was incompetent) and started to produce. Thats what I’ve been calling for with Kubel. Kubel to replace Tyner in Left and get the ABs. You’ve agreed Kubel is the choice for LF in 08. So give him the ABs. Speed up his learning curve. If after 1000 ABs Kubel isn’t up to Cuddy and we have better options then yes sit Kubel. I believe we’ll have a very productive LF.
So you need a 1000 AB sample before you’re willing to pull a hitter who, for the most part, hasn’t cracked the .250 barrier and has no speed?
Wow, I guess I don’t have that kind of patience.
I also say give him the LF job…but again, if after May 31 you have Kubel hitting .240 with 3 HR, then it’s time to search deeper. Can we agree on that, at least?
has23
Cuddy had 993 Career ABs going into 2006.
Kubel had 280 Career ABs going into 2007.
Why are you thanking me. Cuddy hit .263 (Kubel’s at .258) and played everyday. Kubel still sits 2-3 times a week. Play him everyday.
Jason, Good thing your not GM or Manager of a MLB team. Cuddy like I posted had 993 career ABs before his break out season. We’d still be searching for a RF (or playing Lew Ford) if it was up to you Jason.
Many scouts/GMs use the 1000 AB benchmark. So most people who get paid to do this in MLB have more patience than you.
Thanks for the infor JP. That reinforces what I already thought. Kubel was about ready to be an everyday player before the injury. I wouldn’t be suprised to see him hit 25-30 HR next year.
I think thats exactly what we’ll have with Kubel, has23. .265 20HR 80RBI. And I think thats low end. But young players need a lot of ABs to adjust to ML pitching. I want Kubel to go through his growing pains sooner rather than later.
I’m thanking you because you are pointing out that Cuddy hit .263 and played a full season. If Kubel was on pace to hit .263 at a play everyday rate, then he would have a stronger argument. I submit the more you play Kubel, the more his average dips…we’ll play it out and see.
But at least with Cuddyer you can say the guy hit .263 playing everyday for a full season. I’m guessing that average wasn’t the result of a red hot Sep. ‘05 which magically turned an otherwise .245 hitter into a .263 hitter.
So in ‘05 you had Cuddy at .263 and Ford at .264, both playing everyday, essentially. Thus, they were both candidates in ‘06. Cuddy emerged and hit .285 with power.
Bottom line: Where is the evidence that Kubel will go a full season at .263? If he’s .235 after three months, that doesn’t justify everday play for the next two months…I’m sorry, it just doesn’t. At least in ‘05 Cuddy was on pace to hit .263…as soon as Kubel shows he’s capable of that, then let’s play him.
In August, we’re starting to see it, so I’m more optimistic. But let’s also not forget Kubel only has 39 ABs in August (compared to 71 ABs in July)…so wait and see…if his next 70 or so ABs sends him back to .245 with 11 HR, then no, I’m not on board with saying he’s your unquestioned everyday LF throughout ‘08.
I agree JP. I see him hitting in the 6 or 7 hole next year and playing either LF or DH almost every day.
LOL you guys and your “I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kubel hit 25-30 HR next year”.
Maybe, anything can happen. But this is the same line of thinking that had people saying they had a gut feeling he was going to catch fire after the All-Star break….now you’re pushing the ETA on his Ted Williams transformation to next year…
Based on what? Three nights in August? (Great book by the way)
Cuddy hit .308 in Sept/Oct that year. Raising his average from .258 and I think somebody we know is batting .258 right now. He also hit 3 hr and drove in 10, raising his totals from 9 and 35. A great year compared to Kubel’s ‘07. LOL
Kubel hit .225 in July
Prior to Wednesday afternoon, he was hitting .248 in August.
So let’s be realistic here…is this Gardy impeding his progress or is it a three-day hot streak by Kubel?
Those who don’t think you need some AB, look at Hunter’s stats. He hit 14 HR in his first two ML seasons in about 700 AB. He hit .255 his first year and about .280 his second.
Morneau didn’t exactly start out great either. There was talk of trading him after his first year in the majors.
Major League players need AB.
I just don’t see your logic Jason. In career ABs Kubel has just over one full season in the bigs and has hit .256. I think we’ve established that Kubel is putting up similar numbers to Cuddy before Cuddy’s breakout. Cuddy didn’t break out until after 1000 ABs. Get Kubel those ABs. I believe will have another very good hitter.
Puckett hit 4 in his first 1250 or so AB’s.
you got me, mack. By that logic, Kubel will be hitting 25 HR and 100 RBI any year now….because Cuddy is definitely the rule and not the exception…
Mike Ryan
Mike Restovich
Brian Buchanon
Dustan Mohr
Bobby Kielty
Chad Allen
JP you don’t need to continue renewing your prediction…we get it, you think Kubel is going to be great. That’s perfectly fine. You probably were one of the guys proclaiming how great he would be post All-Star game too.
I’m dealing in logic based on the evidence we have in front of us…and I’m willing to give Kubel a certain amount of leeway as well…but unlike you, I’m not simply going to assume that greatness is on the horizon. And I’m sure as heck not going to fool myself into thinking Gardy’s the one keeping Kubel’s average down.
Well, if Gardy keeps messing around he’ll turn into Lew Ford or one of those guys on your list.
LOL Lew Ford is one of the guys on that list….I just failed to put him on there due to personal bias and the fact that he is still technically part of the organization…
But you get my point…this Cuddy comparison asks you to assume quite a bit…plus, if I’m hearing you right you’re saying that Gardy is responsible for all of those other players not making it as well by “messing around”?
But at least with Ford you got a .299 season out of the deal….something none of the above ever provided and something Kubel is a country mile from providing…
You’re missing the point Jason. It is very rare for a hitter to come into MLB and have instant sucess. It takes time and more importantly ABs. Kubel has a great pedigree for hitting. At one point rated the highest hitter in our organization.
Restovich has 240 Career ABs so we still don’t know what he can do. And of the group only Kielty was as highly rated as Kubel was.
Point is we don’t know if Gardy hampered Cuddy’s progress. I do. I think once he got consistent playing time and enough ABs he started to produce. Thats what I want for Kubel. If Gardy isn’t getting him those ABs then I do believe he is hindering Kubel progress. Only one way to know if Kubel is real, and thats get him ABs. Castillo was moved for Casilla. And Tyner and RonDL are getting ABs when Kubel should get them and that is on Gardy.
I don’t see how Tyner getting ABs over Kubel is such a problem when Tyner is batting .284 and Kubel is batting .258.
RonDL…don’t get me started.
And you’re arguing that Kubel is not getting time and ABs? Only Joe Mauer and Cuddy have more ABs than Kubel among players that had at least one DL stint….325 ABs….I’d say he’s been given ample ABs.
Now I agree whole-heartedly that RonDL’s 65 ABs should go to Kubel, but I also would predict (as long as we’re in the predicting business) that Kubel’s avg. would be .248 if you gave him RonDL’s 65 ABs.
Kubel tends to get hot when used in moderation. Your entire argument fails because you make it seem as though Kubel has never been given consistent at-bats.
“I don’t see how Tyner getting ABs over Kubel is such a problem”
That my point. Tyner isn’t the player that Castillo is. Yet Castillo is moved to get Casilla PT. Kubel, who performed better in the minors, is giving up ABs to Tyner. You don’t see the messed up logic there.
Oh BTW along with Tyner’s .282 Ave is his .689 OPS.
…And Kubel’s is .736 How dare I discredit the amazing power of Kubel.
You make a good point on the Castillo / Casilla thinking…but the point there, I guess, is the Twins are absolutely 100 percent sure their 2B in ‘08 will be Alexi Casilla.
They’re not as confident with Kubel nor should they be.
Kubel is young. Under 1000 career ABs. Performed well in minors. Scouts thought highly of him. Get him consistent ABs until he hits the 1000 AB total. Thats my arguement.
We know what we have in Tyner. A singles hitter, nothing more. We don’t know what we have with Kubel yet.
But you still haven’t responded to the overall point:
You’re telling me 325 ABs though August isn’t a good enough sample?
You need the full 400?
Again, you make it seem like Kubel’s been benched for weeks up until Wednesday afternoon.
Now the RonDL thing, you’ll get no argument from me, his 65 ABs should go straight to Kubel if you ask me.
Hell, they should go straight to Chris Heintz for that matter.
And the Twins aren’t 100% sure about Casilla. Thats why you play him, to find out what you have. If he doens’t work out you look at other 2b options, which we have in the minors. Tyner and his singles will be there next year if Kubel doens’t work out.
325 ABs from a guy with under 1000 ABs is not a big enough sample.
True, but in the meantime Kubel’s .248 avg. might cost us a playoff spot if Tyner’s singles are traded for strikeouts.
Hey i’m off to bed. Thanks for the lively discussion….was fun.
And remember, Ford was 2-for-3 with two doubles. I only reported it because you asked
Tyner is a guy this team needs in the lineup - he gets on base a lot more than Jason Kubel does, and that’s what this team needs. They don’t need power hitters, they need enough guys on base enough times for Mauer, Morneau, Hunter, Cuddyer, to knock ‘em in. I wonder what would happen if you moved Punto to 8 when he plays, and then put Tyner in the 9 hole, to roll it over with a chance of keeping a rally going…Thoughts?
Just to let you know, I’m not a Kubel fan - I see another “hot hitting prospect” that just doesn’t pan out.
And Kubel won this game for us with a 400 ft HR to get us within 1 (dream on Tyner) and a Sac to tie the game.
Steve I’ll add you to the list of people that don’t believe Kubel will pan out. And you’re right we don’t need power. We hit 3 HRs and we win today. Not a coincidence.
Gnight Jason. Sleep well.
Jason
Hope you read this in the morning.
Here is a post I got from you from another thread:
Jason says:
August 24th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
HR and RBI are overrated. Laughable.
Yes, very overrated…I’d much rather a bunt single or a slapper to left than a run-producing hit.
I think that applies to Kubel and Tyner perfectly. Also you mentioned earlier in this post that Kubel and his .258 vs Tyner .282 could cost us the pennant. Thats like 5 hits next month. No way that is the diff.
Hope Kubel has a big game today!
Aw dang, Detroit wins it in the bottom of the 11th. That’s the only situation in which I’m disappointed in a Yankees loss.
What time is todays game?
awesome. I found out that our fellow bloggers do know about other players that are on the twins because punto wasnt the only topic of blogversation this time. go bloggers, go twins!
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