Don’t Expect Hunter to Wait
Posted on October 29th, 2007 – 8:16 AMBy La Velle
What’s up! I’m back from K.C., where my first five picks of my fantasy hoops draft went like this: 1. (first overall): Kobe Bryant. 2.(24th): Andre Iguodala. 3. (25th): Deron Williams. 4. (48th) Mehmet Okur. 5. (49th). Jason Richardson. Thanks for the suggestions.
Anyway, just wanted to address the Torii Hunter situation. I expect Hunter to file for free agency today and get his offseason rolling. Hunter and his agent, Larry Reynolds, are anxious to see what’s out there on the free agent market, and the Twins, frankly, don’t have the financial muscle to offer a proactive deal to keep Hunter from shopping around. (Won’t offer a proactive deal is more accurate, thanks Shawn!)
It’s really a sign that Hunter’s days as a Twin are numbered. He’ll get some nice offers, perhaps as long as five years, which the Twins can’t hang with.
If the Twins do part ways with Hunter, it will be a sad day in the Twin Cities for all the fans who have grown to love and support Hunter. But the sadness should only last for a day. There’s $12 million of his 2007 salary that will be available to invest in other players, and that’s where the interest should be in.
Here’s a suggestion for a solution: Coco Crisp. The Red Sox have the emerging Jacoby Ellsbury to play in center, which could make Covelli (Coco’s real name) available. He makes $4.75M in 2008, $5.75M in 2009 and there’s a 2010 option for 2010.
Coco has hit .264 and .268 in two seasons in Boston after batting around .300 for two seasons with Cleveland. He can run and plays fairly well in center. I wish he’d walk more, but he did walk a career high 50 times this season and will turn 28 next month.
The Twins can use the savings to address offense issues at third base and designated hitter. It will be tough to lose the 26-30 homers and 90-100 RBI Torii brought, but maybe the Twins can absorb most of it with improvements at third base and DH.
By the way, I’m against some suggestions of going after Marcus Giles. But I’m all for taking a chance on Jason Bay.
Another thing. I think it’s awful that A-Rod and agent Scott Boras would step all over the World Series by releasing their plans to opt-out of his contract with the Yankees. What a lack of respect. Has A-Rod ever helped a team reach the World Series? And Boras’ explanation that A-Rod wasn’t sure about the return of Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettitte is ridiculous. The Yankees can any hole with cash - and they’ve released plans to offer Posada a nice extension.
That’s all. Joe C. is in the baseball bureau today and will be all over any news….
52 Responses to "Don’t Expect Hunter to Wait"
A-Rod is an a-hole. As Buster Olney mentioned in his A-rod centric story today on ESPN, it’s all about A-rod. 30 mil? Give me a break…where does he think he’s going to get that money? Mets? Angels? Cubs?
Anyway, as for Hunter. Okay, let’s say we fail to resign him, that’s $12 mil we’re saving…I tell you what, this club better damn well spend the money on improving the team. The Silva, Hunter, Castillo, Ford, and Cirillo contracts are coming off the books. The front office should be signing some guys to long-term deals and making some plays for QUALITY free agents.
What are you talking about, the twins cant afford a 5th year…the twins can offer whatever the want…rewrite the article saying the twins WONT offer a 4th or 5th year, and they should be boycotted for it…but you need to maintain your relationships with the twins [EDITED FOR IMPROPER LANGUAGE]. I want my money back from Carl Pohlad for the stadium…this is a crime!!!!!!!!!!
I completely agree that Crisp should be considered. He should come relatively cheap. I suggested sending Jay Rainville, a RI native, to the Red Sox for him. To me, he’s the best defensive CF in the league and he’s got enough bat to fit into the bottom of the order nicely or lead off.
I also agree with not wanting Giles. Intereting how his career pretty much tanked starting in 2005, huh? He’s got nothing left. It would be kind of like when the Twins got Bret Boone who, after certain rules came into baseball, no longer had any pop in his bat.
I agree on the Torii thought too. Twins fans should be sad for maybe a day when Torii goes, but then get over it (which they won’t). No way I would offer more than three years! Now, the key to this is how they reallocate that $12 million into the team.
I don’t usually drink heavily in the morning, but as long as La Velle is going to bring up Coco Crisp, what about Mike Lowell and Johnny Damon?
The World Champions might be among the very few that go after A-Rod, thus making the Series MVP available.
Bartlett SS
Mauer C
Damon CF
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer RF
Lowell DH
Kubel LF
Buscher 3B
Punto 2B
Or maybe not.
Johnny Damon, as much as I like him as a person, isn’t the player he was five years ago. I’d look elsewhere.
Okay scratch Damon from my roster and pencil in Crisp.
I’ll have another drink while your doing that.
LEN III
Kobe? #1? You don’t even know what team he is going to be playing for. I would have gone with Lebron, since his team is going to need him to carry them just to win 40 games.
Is it Orton time yet?
after reading this, and knowing full well what methods the Twins have used the past multiple offseasons to “upgrade” the team…and the lack of positonal talent in the minors..
I think I’ll join Joe Twin at the bar.
Misery loves company.
I just don’t see the Twins using the money wisely. I see them buying cheap, also not re-signing their 2nd best pitcher, and getting worse again this next year. I see Gardy refusing to play young players, and ripping them publicly for things that veterans get away with. I see the offense being even worse, and the Twins dealing Santana at the last minute and getting pennies on the dollar for what they could have received by trading him in the offseason.
“La Velle says:
October 29th, 2007 at 8:46 am
Johnny Damon, as much as I like him as a person, isn’t the player he was five years ago. I’d look elsewhere.”
I think we’re going to be saying the same about Torii in a few years too.
“Shawn says:
October 29th, 2007 at 8:35 am
What are you talking about, the twins cant afford a 5th year…the twins can offer whatever the want…rewrite the article saying the twins WONT offer a 4th or 5th year, and they should be boycotted for it…but you need to maintain your relationships with the twins [EDITED FOR IMPROPER LANGUAGE]. I want my money back from Carl Pohlad for the stadium…this is a crime!!!!!!!!!!”
You’re right…I expect the Twins to put a competitive team on the field in 2010, not a AAA team, which is what the ‘07 closely resembled. And if you think you can pass off Batista/Ponson-esque FA’s on the fans, you have another thing coming. THOSE are not ballplayers…
With that said, the Twins shouldn’t let the door hit Torii in the arse on the way out either. The guy has been talking out of both sides of his mouth for the past years now. On one hand, he wants to play with Dmitri Young, or play close to home in Texas, but on the other hand, he wants the Twins to make him a competitive offer as well…
Which is it, Torii?
I’m not usually a ‘glass half full’ kinda guy where Twins’ personnel moves are concerned but I really don’t believe Smith wants his first off-season to go down as just another couple months of signing the bottom of the FA barrel.
I totally agree with NOT giving Hunter a guaranteed 5 year deal. Let someone else do that. I also don’t see giving Silva even the 3yr/21m that he’s already turned down.
I fully expect Smith to sign Santana and Morneau to longer term deals in addition to signing/trading for legitimate OF/3B/DH candidates. It’s time for him to demonstrate that this is his team now and we’ll see a different approach than the last couple of off-seasons under TR.
Jim, I hope you’re right. If he can sign Santana and Morneau, great (although I’m a proponent of trading Santana now and fleecing an organization of some top-flight prospects).
I’m confused as to why the Twins would even think about giving Silva a 3 yr/21 mil contract. THAT is the type of contract, IMO, that will get this organization in trouble. Honestly, I don’t think Silva is anything more than a 3rd or 4th starter (but again, just my opinion).
I agree, Todd. Again, in my uncharacteristic optimistic bend, I’m hoping maybe it was a matter of the Twins offering him a contract that would send the message that they’re willing to spend some money but yet it was an offer they knew he and his agent would reject. Sort of a ‘hey we really appreciate what you’ve done here and we don’t want to send you away thinking we were ungrateful but we do have other guys to fill your role so good luck’ kind of offer.
I don’t agree with you on Santana. I simply don’t think you trade him now unless (a) he comes out and says that he won’t re-sign with Minn, or (b) someone comes to you with an over-the-top kind of trade offer. I don’t expect either to happen but if one/both does occur, I won’t have a major issue with letting him go.
Jama,
My co-owner is a big Kobe guy and persuaded me to go along with the pick. He’ll get his points wherever he playes.
It’s not Orton time. It’s Matt Ryan time. It’s Ray Rice, Darren McFadden or Steve Slaton time. It’s Jake Long time.
Jim: I think with Santana you have to initially approach him with a contract offer: see if you can sign him. BUT, if he wants an 8 year 150 mil deal (or something outrageous like that), you have to deal him. We can’t let him walk without compensation at the end of the year. I don’t think the front office can let all of this contract issues linger as they did last year. Resolve them now…
LaVelle I couldn’t agree more On A-Rod announcing his opt out during the WS.What an ego driven move.
This really opens ups the Rangers wallet though doesn’t it.Not having to pay all that cash to the Yankees should really allow them to throw the bucks at bringing Torii home to Dallas.See ya Torii.
I could live with Coco in center as long as the Twins up grade significantly at 3b an DH, although I don’t know how that can be done AND sign Santana.
If the Twins feel Lariano can make it all the way back I would certainly entertain trade talks with anyone concerning Sanatana,who if he resigns with the Twins, makes it very hard to improve a line up in desperate need of a over haul.Santana will have maximum value this off season IMO,if you are going to trade him,don’t wait until the deadline.
La Velle
As a Bears fan please don’t say the name Matt Ryan, he is completely overrated. McFadden is a stud but the other 2 RB’s named are also overrated. Jake Long is a pick I could handle, he is a road grader. I like Andre Woodson. Either way the QB situation better be handled this offseason
On to the Twins, If the Twins want a veteran pitcher on the rotation, is ther any interest in a guy like Bartolo Colon? I know he has some injury issues, OK a lot of injury issues, but what kind of contract is he going to get?
8 years at 150 mil for Santan would be a steal. When he is a Free Agent he is going to get at least 20 mil per and I would guess closer to 25 mil per. If he would sign for 150 mil over 8 years I say get him that contract right now!
Jama, do you think the front office will truly make him such an offer? In my opinion, I don’t think they will. If that’s the case, there is no way we shouldn’t try to deal him. Furthermore, the pieces acquired in such a trade could begin a retooling of an offensively-depleted farm system. How else is that going to happen without waiting five years?
playerA: 526 AB, 6 HR, .330/.382/.712 obp/slug/ops
‘08 salary: $4.75M
‘09 salary: $5.75M
‘10 club option: $8M
playerB: 453 AB, 5 HR, .335/.400/.735 obp/slug/ops
‘08 salary: $5M
playerA: Coco Crisp
playerB: Jacque Jones
Coco is signed reasonably for a longer period, and a superior defender I’d guess, but otherwise they are similar players.
I also guess there will be a number of teams interested in Coco, and remember the Twins have reportedly had their differences with Boston (Mientkiewicz trade). Maybe Bill Smith will work better with Theo then TR did.
I hear Coco Crisp, and I cringe, to be honest with everyone. It’s probably just me, but I think I’d rather take my chances with Denard Span (gulp).
jama Do we really want another over weight pitcher on the decline? Colon could = Ponson IMO.
I would have been scared of Kobe too. I can see him wanting some time off in the dog days and just going home and telling the Lakers to trade him.
Good luck Lavelle!
Todd,
I don’t anticipate the Twins offering Santana anything that isn’t insulting. I was just saying that the contract posted above would be a steal for Johan. I agree with you that if they don’t sign him to an extension it is time to start taking trade offers and then take the best deal you can get. Otherwise they will lose him for nothing after the season. I don’t care about 1st round and sandwich draft picks. The Twins have shown that drafting players in the 1st couple of rounds is not their strong point.
Scott,
You said one player, that being Liriano, could make the Twins competitive again. Sorry, but did I miss where he switched to a position player like Rick Ankiel and will suddenly be the hitter the Twins need?
I would be better with trading Nathan than Johan, since I think it’s “easier” to replace a closer than the rarity that is Johan Santana.
Craig, who are you 5 hitters the Twins will magically pull out of the air?
As for a CF-go with Crisp. He’s younger than Cameron and Lofton and hopefully still has some upside to him.
Shaun,
McDonald, Machado and Span replace Ford, Rodriguez and White. Castillo and Hunter are replaced by Tolbert and the new right-handed hitter the Twins are talking about acquiring. Something like that. Overall, it will be close to a wash.
There is no way to replace Hunters offensive production because overall there was no offense from the twins. I would rather have an up graded 3B, DH, and SS and loose the production in CF ( while keeping the Defense. It makes your line up better overall.
I think the Twins need a huge offseason to be competative in 08. I think it starts with replacing Hunter, then finding a 3B and DH. I think those are the 3 big needs this offseason. I think the Twins can be a playoff team again with improvements to SS,DH, and 3B. also the replacement of torii Hunter. Especially with the rotation of Satana, Lariano, Garza, Bonsor, and Baker. Also the Twins have one of the best bulpens in all of baseball. The Twins could improve greatly without making any huge deal. I was saying earlier that a Santana deal would could make the team on paper 100 times better than last year, but that would be a dramatic change which the Twins are not known for.
Trade for Coco, or another deal I have heard about is Lastings Mileage for Garza.
.I have also heard rumors about a Garza or Bonser for J. Bay trade. personally I want Mileage over anyone else, has huge upside.
Here is the website I got the list of Free agents from.
Craig,
I thought you were going to list people who could HIT, except for myabe Tolbert those 3 worry me.
So who’s the mystery RH bat?
Lastings won’t be a Twin-attitude issues will keep him out of a Twins uniform.
That’s a group of old players. I like Cesar Izturis if he is healthy. He is younger, and he could help the Twins at SS.
Shaun,
I don’t think those three would be any worse than who they replace.
The mystery Right-handed bat is a mystery. He is apparently the “tweak” Terry Ryan referred to the Twins as needing. Ryan said they wanted a right-handed hitter to protect M&M from the lefties.
I suspect a trade of some kind is what they will work on.
Well what I would like to see happen is Lowell at 3B and Bay in left or DH.
Cf-Mileage (trade Slowey)
C-Mauer
lf-Bay (trade Bonser)
1b-Morneau
3B-Lowell (sign as free agent)
RF-Cuddyer
DH-Sosa (only cheap) otherwise Kubel
SS-Bartlett
2B-Casilla
Bay only costs 3.5M, Lowell made 9M last season probably asking around 10-12 possibly, Sosa would come cheap, and Mileage is also cheap. so the Hunter money (from last year) goes to Lowell and the money from Sila and the other departures go to the other players. Hunter wants 15M per year roughly and Lowell would only cost around 10 maybe more.
Also I do like the possibility of Tejada in MN! but when he went to Baltimore there were rumors he didn’t want to play in MN on the turf. (so he wouldn’t sign a long term deal)
Chances of the player being with the Twins next season?
Hunter?
Bay?
Sweeney?
Lofton?
Lowell?
Sosa?
Bonds?
Mileage?
Tejada?
Izturis?
Miguel Cabrera?
Garrett Atkins?
Checking the link provided by Joe, I noticed a Japanese outfielder is available named Kosuke Fukudome. Apparently he is a very good player. Does anyone know anything about Fukudome?
Joe,
Chances of being a Twin next year:
Milledge, Izturis, Lofton - Almost Zero.
The Rest - Absolutely Zero.
I still think the rumored Johan for Kemp,Kershaw and LaRouche trade makes the most sense.Face it folks, the Twins can’t afford to resign him and also wrap up Justin and Cutty long term. Johan’s homeruns given up is troublesome.Maybe the AL has caught up to his change-up. Let him dazzle the NL For 5 years untill they catch up aiso
Here’s to hoping that ARod, Andruw Jones, and all the Scott Boras clients get non-tendered this winter!
Sosa would be a nice pickup. I like him a lot better than Sweeney.
Twins positives - Santana, Liriano, Garza, Perkins, Morneau, Mauer, Cuddyer, Nathan, Bartlett, Neshek, Guerrier, Kubel, & Redmond.
Twins negatives - Rincon, Casilla (but with upside as he’s young), Cali, & Punto (very replaceable).
Twins neutrals - Crain, Tyner, Buscher, Jones, Reyes, Baker, Bonser, Slowey.
Too young too tell - Blackburn, Tolbert, Span, Duensing, Moses, Plouffe, & Parmalee.
Who helps? Who goes to get help?
Twins should trade Santana to The Dodgers and Joe Torri. Torris first big move
Whatever the actual franchises that Boras has targeted, A-Rod being on the free agent market has created a tremendous opportunity for Bill Smith, the new Twins general manager.
How can the Yankees make the folks who bought 4½ million tickets this season forget about A-Rod? They acquire Johan Santana from the Twins for pitchers Philip Hughes and Ian Kennedy and outfielders Melky Cabrera and Jose Tabata.
The Twins also add Joe Nathan to the deal and get bullet-throwing Joba Chamberlain.
And what if the Dodgers don’t want to go A-Rod steep with their payroll? They acquire Santana from the Twins for pitchers Clayton Kershaw and Jonathan Broxton, outfielder Matt Kemp and third baseman Tony Abreu.
Let’s go, Mr. Smith. Show us what you got.
Hey Joe, you just stole Pat Reusse’s column word for word. Everyone please check that out. And you tried to make me feel bad about my early morning drinking. And it’s Joe Torre, not Joe Torii you moron.
Clueless mopes like you ruin Al Gore’s internet.
Let TorME go- All these money hungry fools- No Team or communtiy loyality!!!
Come work my job for a week at my pay scale- you’d be gald to accept what your team offers you. don’t forget where you came from
Craig
Did you make up the name Fukudome? If not I don’t see a guy with that name playing in the metroDome, maybe in the new stadium though. Fuk u dome. Get it.
jama,
Click on the link provided by Joe above and scroll down to right-fielders. He is listed as the third player down. Fukudome.
You have to admit, that is just a great name. He would have been perfect for the Twins when they were trying to get a new stadium.
Typical of the Twins, they can’t see the forrest for the trees. No foresight whatsoever. If they would have paid steep for Hunter yesterday, they would reep the benefits of tomorrow. While the Twins look only at today, the rest of MLB leaves them behind. Would you forego a dollar today if it brought you $1,000 next year? I say yes.
The Twins should do more platooning next season. They could do a left/right platoon at 4-5 positions. By utilizing switch hitters as well, the Twins could have a left-handed lineup and a right-handed one. At least they could come close.
They could have a team similar to the 1977 Twins. Perhaps the best hitting Twins team of all time. Let’s do it!
I wouldn’t want AROD and think that entertaining the possibility is absurd given it would be hard for a mid-market franchise to maintain a competitive team around him.
Bonds won’t happen, but should be considered. There’s no question that he’s at least the next-best bat available, and he won’t be asking for a long term deal. If Minnesota has $15 million to spend this next year, this is not a bad idea.
Shopping Santana isn’t a particularily bad idea either. However, Reyes and or Wright as part of the deal would be a pipe-dream. Superstars just don’t get traded for cheaper superstars. Santana does have quite a lot of value, and the talk of picking of a number of solid prospects isn’t idle.
Garza is the exact type of player Minnesota does not want to deal: talented, cheap, and will be that way for a few seasons yet.
Crisp might be a good idea, and I agree on Damon. He’s not an outstanding defender, isn’t all that great of an onbase guy, and isn’t a lock for an OPS+ of 100 or more. Crisp will be better on D, worse on O, but about two-thirds the cost. However, with Crisp, I’m not sold on the notion that the last two seasons are statisticall the abnormalities. I don’t think he’s a player you can count on for a OBPS+ of 100 regularily.
Mike Cameron may cost about the same as Crisp, could be considered a defensive equivalent, and I think if he gets out of a severe pitchers park he could post good numbers. he could be a good value even at a three-year 20M contract.
Another guy to Consider:
Jeff DaVanon: he’s been a roll-player his whole career, but overall has put up decent numbers (lifetime OPS+ of 97). He might be signable on a one year deal for cheap with the promise of seeing significant time. Low risk, possibly decent reward.
