Elias Rankings released
Posted on October 31st, 2007 – 7:48 PMBy La Velle
The Elias Sports Bureau has released its annual player rankings - rankings that are used to determine compensation for teams that lose free agents.
Please be aware that the structure has changed! There are no more Type C free agents, and the pool for Type A free agents has shrunk from the top 30 percent to top 20 percent. Rankings are based on an Elias formula that examines production over the past two years.
With that in mind, check out the rankings for AL position players.
Torii Hunter is tied for 20th with Carl Crawford. The Type A list ends at 23. Keep in mind that outfielders are thrown into the same pot with first basemen and DH’s.
This means that if Hunter signs with another team before Dec. 1, the Twins will receive that club’s first-round pick in next year’s draft - as well as a sandwich pick between the first two rounds. In order to receive compensation after Dec. 1, the Twins would have to offer Hunter arbitration (if he hasn’t signed by then). That’s a formality.
The list of pitchers had not moved on the wire at the time of this writing, but a source told me that Carlos Silva tied for 37th on the list and did not qualify as an A- or B-type free agent. I thought Silva had a shot at B status, but his poor 2006 season cost him.
That means Silva could sign with another club and the Twins would receive nothing in return. I wish I knew what Philadelphia and other teams offered for Silva before the trade deadline. I know there was interest, but obviously not enough for the Twins. They must really want to have his veteran presence in the rotation next season.
35 Responses to "Elias Rankings released"
LEN3,
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t the first 15 picks of the draft protected from compensation.
For instance, if Torii signs with the Yankees the Twins would get the picks you described. However, if he signs with Texas the Twins will receive the sandwich pick and their second round pick.
I believe you are right. Teams that stunk the year before aren’t penalized for signing a good free agent. I should have made that clearer…
“”They must really want to have his veteran presence in the rotation next season.”"
I hope you rolled your eyes when you typed that. Terry did a pretty poor job running this franchise the last 2-3 years.
Please, please, please don’t re-sign Silva. Every dollar spent on him is a dollar wasted on needs elsewhere. His production can easily be found among the many pitching prospects.
Anybody notice where Alex Rodriguez ranked among 2B,3B,SS? 6th. They must be including personality in this ranking.
No. A-Rod ranked poorly defensively, based on the Elias formula.
As for not signing Silva, I tend to agree. I mean, the rotation would be Santana, Baker, Liriano and Silva by the end of May. Do you really want to pay a No. 4 starter $7-10 million a year?
I’m wondering if the Twins would be more comfortable dealing young pitching prospects for a 3B or DH if Silva is back…
La Velle
I believe i read this on MLBTRADERUMORS.COM. but it mentioned that David Dejesus might be available.
If the twins lose hunter, what are the odds they would make a run at Dejesus?
Or are we stuck with Coco Crisp and if we trade for atkins, perhaps getting willy tavares included in the deal?
I wouldnt mind seeing Crisp, but i think his contract is a little to much for a guy that was defense only this year.
LEN III
I see you followed my advice and went with AI2(Igudala(sp)) and Deron Williams in the FBB draft. Well done. Any late sleepers? I am involved in a draft this weeekend. I know we are getting a little bit of a late start.
Oh yeah Kobe doesn’t look like such a bad pick right now!
jama, I got Andrea Bargani
MH, the chances are good any decent center fielder will be mentioned as a replacement for Hunter if he leaves. I
What does it say that Tommy Watkins was within 0.3 of Nick Punto at 42?
Congradulations Joe Mauer!!
You have been ranked the third best catcher in the world (and you were even hurt for some of last year) behind Posada and Martinez.
No. A-Rod ranked poorly defensively, based on the Elias formula.
But David Ortiz gets a perfect score despite having less defensive value than Manny?
Any system that lumps DH’s and CF’s together is massively underestimating the importance of defense. What a joke of a system. I can’t believe either side thought this was a good idea during the collective bargaining.
Although it may be preferable to trade them both, it appears from La Velle’s link that the Twins could eventually receive good draft compensation for both Morneau and Cuddyer.
As a Twins fan in Tampa, I see some benefit in the Twins and D-Rays talking Santana trade. Getting C. Crawford and James Shields for Santana makes a lot of sense. Having a Kazmire/Santana 1-2 is pretty good.
In 2009 Santana will probably have a larger salary than the Devil Rays entire team salary.
Yippee!!!! The Reds declined the option on Everyday Eddie Guardado! We should sign him as well as Corey Koskie- that is sure to cure all the Twins problems, as well as getting back to of the Twins more popular players!
*PLEASE detect the sarcasm*
The interesting thing is the Twins had five relief pitchers ranked. Nathan was the second ranked reliever. Neshek and Guerrier were also type A free agents. Rincon and Crain were type B.
I can’t believe either side thought this was a good idea during the collective bargaining.
I think it should be clear these rankings are intended to classify players in very gross terms. There is not any real difference among Type A free agents or among the type B free agents. The only time the rankings come into play is if a team signs more than one player in the Type A category.
The Silva loss, and they will lose him, is an interesting thing. Many, many people here and on the team were upset when they traded Castillo to get something for him, how would everyone have felt if they had traded Silva?
Personally, I was for the Castillo trade, and I would have been for a Silva trade. Ryan, for everything he did very well, really mismanaged this roster the last few years - not dealing Silva is just one example (and not getting a DH for 5 years is another).
problem is with an $80 mill budget it disappears quick.
joe and justin $15
santana and nathen $20
punto, redmond reyes and crain $5
thats half your budget then with cuddyer, matt g. and bartlett getting arbitration that could be another $10 that only leaves $30 for the other 13-14 players. doesn’t leave much room for quality fa pickups. even if we’re bad enough not to give up a draft pick any “a” type players are out of our budget.
espn radio was discussing the bending trade of santana to the yankees. if he isn’t on the market there sure is a lot of talk about it.
Hey La Velle,
Any chance the Twins take a chance on Cliff Floyd? He seems like a decent fit to me for a DH or 4th OF for a reasonable price. He’s a career .279 hitter with some pop. Granted we would probably prefer a right handed bat instead.
I think the Twins should try to re-sign Silva. But even if they weren’t going to do that, they still couldn’t have traded him in July. I don’t see how Ryan trades one of his only dependable starters while the Twins are still within striking distance of making the playoffs. That would have been a clear white flag. I don’t think trading Castillo was.
I’d just like to thank Terry Ryan for cashing in on Carlos Silva & Torii Hunter when he had the chance.
It’s like, do the Twins not have guys crunching these numbers, figuring out what kind of ranking they’d get?
It’s like, do the Twins not have guys crunching these numbers, figuring out what kind of ranking they’d get?
1) Probably, but then who can accurately project how well he would do compared to every other pitcher?
2) So does every other team. So how much is a team willing to give up for the two month rental of a player that they will receive no compensation for?
That’s think kind of deal where you get someone else’s failed prospect, the way the Twins traded away BJ Garbe a few years ago. Silva would have brought a little more than that, but maybe not much more.
And remember, the Twins were still in the chase, albeit fading.
I’m looking at this list and it shows that Cuddyer is ranked higher then Torii and Ichiro? They also have Justin ahead of Manny how is that possible?
So Craig, you are now wanting to trade Morneau and Cuddyer?
I think it should be clear these rankings are intended to classify players in very gross terms.
If by gross, you mean that it’s disgusting that players at a premium defensive position like CF are ranked together with players who have less than zero defensive value, then yes, I agree. They are gross.
I would rather not sign Silva. Johan, Liriano, Baker, Garza and Bonser or Slowey would be just fine.
Of course Craig wants to trade Morneau and Cuddyer because he wants a team of players that hit single digit home runs and have to string together 3 singles for every run they get.
Frank Thomas at 13th while Hunter is 20th and Granderson is 24th.
Right……………….
Craig is a closet Anaheim fan circa 2001. He’ll be doing cartwheels in the parking lot when we sign Erstad to play CF.
Will everyone please get off the DH subject. We will never pay for a player to just hit. It makes no sense for a team with a restricted payroll to pay a guy to only play half the game. I am also sick of all the Minnesota bandwagon. Either you are a fan or not. If you are the ones who are saying “I am not going to games next year because……blah, blah, blah…” That is all this state is, they are bandwagon, 98 Vikes, Three headed monster wolves, and the list goes on. I will own my season tickets for life, oh and by the way, we set the payroll for the team in what we spend on merchandise and tickets, so open your wallet and the Pohlads will open theirs. OK enough ranting, GO TWINS!!!!
Keiunta looks like the man for CF in 2008. As B pointed out yesterday, he hit .302 from June to the end of the season at AAA last year.
He can use his speed to keep balls out of the gaps. This is especially important in the dome with the quick turf.
If the Twins return Cuddyer and especially Kubel to the corner spots, the speed of Keiunta may be vital to having any chance of winning.
Regarding trading Morneau and Cuddyer, it isn’t necessary because the small market Twins should be able to afford them up until they become free agents.
La Velle’s link indicates that the Twins may eventually end up receiving good draft considerations in exchange for both. I just said it might be preferable to trade them. If the right deal came along, that is.
Erik Bedard may still be available.
LEN III
You must have been reading my mind on the FBB. I also drafted Thorton (10th round) and Bargani (8th round). My real sleeper is Ronnie Brewer of the Jazz, keep an eye on him
They also have Justin ahead of Manny how is that possible?
Morneau was the MVP last year and hit half again as many home runs as Manny this year. What criteria would put Manny ahead of him other than press clippings?
