It’s official
Posted on November 28th, 2007 – 9:08 PMBy La Velle
The Twins and Tampa Bay Rays on Wednesday night have completed a trade that brings young hitting star Delmon Young to the Twin Cities (photo courtesy of USA Today).
The Twins have sent righthander Matt Garza, shortstop Jason Bartlett and minor league righthander Eduardo Morlan to the Rays for Young, infielder Brendan Harris and outfield prospect Jason Pridie.
Young, 22, who hit .288 last season with 13 homers and 93 RBI and is considered one of the better young hitters in the game.
He was the first overall pick in 2003 and is the younger brother of major leaguer Dmitri Young. Delmon Young rise to the majors includes being named minor league player of the year in 2005 but also includes some snags.
He was suspended 50 games by the International League in 2006 for throwing a bat and hitting an umpire. And he was pulled from a gamelate last season for not hustling but was allowed to play in the season finale after apologizing.
Harris, 27, hit .286 with 12 homers and 59 RBI. He played 87 games at short and 47 at second base last season. Pridie, who spent the 2006 spring training with the Twins as a Rule 5 pick, batted a combined .304 with 14 homers and 66 RBI at Class AA Montgomery and Class AAA Durham. Pridie, 24, is a center fielder, but isn’t expected to be in the mix for a starting job.
A trade for Young could lead to the Twins non-tendering a contract to outfielder Craig Monroe, who was acquired from the Cubs earlier this month. The Twins hoped to get Monroe to agree to a pay cut with incentives. With Young expected to play in left field and Jason Kubel around, outfield at-bats for Monroe would be hard to get.
The Twins continue to take offers for two-time Cy Young award winner Johan Santana, who could help the club land help in center field and third base. And closer Joe Nathan could be dealt as well.
489 Responses to "It’s official"
Morlan was included?
Ugh, this trade now sucks.
So when Young posts another sub .320 OBP can we complain then?
A bold move and a necessary one. Good start to the hot stove season for Mr. Smith and the Twins. Build for 2010 and beyond! Now time to get Jose Reyes and nurture all that young pitching talent we have.
So no Juan…iiinteresting.
look at every Rays OBP, its very low, they arent taught to be patient at the plate. Joe Vavra and company will help him alot.
Hey, a quality bat is a quality bat. I had a feeling the Twins weren’t as high on Garza as our other prospects, and if we can get a Phil Hughes, Clay Bucholtz, or Nick Adenhart back, this move looks real good.
So is Pridie worth giving up Morlan? Probably not.
No Monroe? Great trade!!!
Great trade. When Young begins destroying the ball THIS year, we’ll all be happy. Now lets just hope we’re smart with Santana…
we still couldn’t get red of Juan Rincon how injured is he if the rays didn’t want him?
Eduardo Morlan> Rincon Rincon just screwed us over.
you dont trade one of your very top pitching prospects and tear up the middle of your infield for a big bat, and a utility infielder….theres got to be more coming…stay tuned…god i hope so…right now im a bit anxious…
i dont know enything about Eduardo Morlan how good is he
Harris had a better year then Bartlett, just because you havent heard of him doesnt mean he is bad.
Plus, we have some 5 or 6 top pitching prospects, and we will be getting more for Santana.
Morlan >>>> Rincon.
so delmon is going to play left…what about the great upside to kubel, who i think is still going to come around..cant young play center…thats where we need help…is it not???
Kubel will split time at dh and left, im sure Young will play left and center
A lot of people are better than Rincon…
As for Monroe, I believe if he gets non-tendered, the Twins owe the Cubs nothing.
Handing off Morlan is a letdown after hearing the first configuration of the trade. Here’s a description by Seth’s friend Roger, you can find it here:
http://www.sethspeaks.net/112707.htm
“[Morlan] is a Cuban native whom the Twins drafted in the 3rd round of the 2004 draft. Scouts continually rave about this young man’s arm and his fastball that has reportedly touched 100 mph on the gun. Eduardo Morlan has gone back and forth between the bullpen and starting rotations the past few years before settling into his current role as a short reliever. The Twins look at Morlan as a future closer which is the role he recently filled for the championship Phoenix Desert Dogs in the AFL where he had a perfect 0.00ERA in 12.2 innings in 12 appearances. Baseball America recently recognized Morlan as the 16th best prospect in the Florida State League.”
Uggghh. Including Rincon in the deal was definately better. It looks like Harris has bounced around a few organizations and does not have the range to play ss. He doesn’t seem to fit other than a utility type. It would appear Pridie would take over Lew Fords role as 4th of. Basically, we traded Garza & Bartlett for Young. Seems like a lot given TB was determined to get rid of one of their 4 of’s but we needed some offense but I assume they have plans for a ss that is coming.
You have to give some good players up in order to get good ones in return. I’m glad we got rid of Jason Bartlett!!!He stinks…
Shucks.
I liked this deal a lot more when the Twins weren’t giving up Morlan. I have liked Morlan for quite some time, and feel like he’ll be a very good ML reliever.
Good pickup for the Rays.
If Pridie isn’t in line for a starting job, I wonder what he’s in line for. I probably prefer him to Jason Tyner since he’s got more power, and can also play CF, but I’m not sure what the Twins have planned for him.
So if Young plays LF, then what happens to Kubel? Does he become the full time DH? Could Young be placed in RF and Cuddyer moved back to 3b?
i think the twins had enough of garza’s attitude…i like the trade one for one, but the rest is confusing….and apparently rincon does have some arm issues…..
I certainly don’t like including Morlan in this deal in lieu of Rincon. Morlan has the making of a terrific closer in the future. I’m going to try not to let it sour me on the deal totally, but man, I don’t like losing that kid.
November 28, 2007
Rays deal Delmon to Twins
The Rays completed a six-player deal late Wednesday to send AL Rookie of the Year runner-up Delmon Young to the Minnesota Twins in exchange for RHP Matt Garza, SS Jason Bartlett and a minor-leaguer.
The Rays also gave up INF Brendan Harris and minor-league OF Jason Pridie.
The Rays get Garza, who will go right into their rotation, and Bartlett, who becomes their starting shortstop. They also get minor-league RHP Eduardo Morlan, a 21-year-old who was 5-3 with 18 saves and a 3.10 ERA with Class A Fort Myers and Double-A New Britain. He struck out 99 in 69 2/3 innings.
“It’s a business decision, and it helps out both teams,” Young said. “We had too many outfielders and one of them had to go.”
Young said he was “excited” to to join the Twins and would “go over there and help out their club with 100 percent effort.”
He said he was not surprised the Rays would trade him because “you always know if there’s an offer they can’t resist they’re going to pull the trigger.”
The Rays were in serious discussions throughout the day and earlier seemed poised to get veteran reliever Juan Rincon, but concerns surfaced about his elbow, and Morlan was substituted in the deal.
“I haven’t heard anything,” Young said when reached on his cell phone mid-evening Wednesday. “Just gimme a call when something gets done or not done.”
The key pieces to the deal is Bartlett, who would step into the team’s starting shortstop role, and Garza, a talented 24-year-old right hander who likely would become the Rays’ No. 3 starter.
Remember that Morlan did great in A and AA, not AAA or the majors, he was any where from a year to 3 years away from the majors. If Perkins stays in the bullpen, guerrier, neshek, perkins, and even Crain (who you hate now but absolutely LOVED not too long ago) will be a good bullpen for 3 or 4 years at the minimum
Remember that Morlan did great in A and AA, not AAA or the majors, he was any where from a year to 3 years away from the majors. If Perkins stays in the bullpen, guerrier, neshek, perkins, and even Crain (who you hate now but absolutely LOVED not too long ago) will be a good bullpen for 3 or 4 years at the minimum
He’s 21 years old.
will never see cuddy at 3b again…never to have that nigtmare ..must have short memory…he found himself in rf and theres no sense to going back to that…..sheeesh…
great frist trad for bill simth more then likely there will be two more trades this offseason
Neither do I. Smith just got suckered just like the Giants did when we included Liriano at the last minute in the AJ deal. Morlan is going to be a stud.
Morlan certainly has some upside. But then so did Travis Bowyer and Scott Tyler who were dealt for Castillo. That deal seems to have turned out in the Twins favor. If Rincon pitches like he did a couple years ago, he is certainly more valuable. Even if he pitches like last year, he may still turn out to be more valuable.
The Twins still need someone who can play center field. But Young adds another right handed bat that over the next few years should exceed anything Torii was going to provide. Mauer, Young, Morneau, Cuddyer is a pretty formidable middle of the order.
That sucks to lose Morlan. That’s a BIG swing. Not only do we lose a GREAT prospect, basically the next Joba Chamberlain as a reliever, but we also just lost $3 M in salary in the deal that we would have been giving up in Rincon.
I think I still like this deal overall, but that’s definitely a big blow to it.
[…] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptIt’s official Wednesday, November 28th, 2007 [IMG]The Twins and Tampa Bay Rays on Wednesday night have completed a trade that brings young hitting prospect Delmon Young to the Twin Cities (photo courtesy of USA Today). The Twins have sent righthander Matt Garza, shortstop Jason Bartlett and minor league righthander Eduardo Morlan to the Rays for Young, infielder Brendan Harris and outfield prospect Jason Pridie. Young, 22, who hit .288 last season with 13 homers and 93 RBI and is considered […]
awesome.. i just bought season tickets.. delmon young is bringing us a championship!
i can only hope that Harris can BUNT!!!!
maybe the start of a.casilla at short???
hey maybe bill can convence the Nationals to trade us Dmitri Young who could be are dh and back up justin at first i doubt they would trade him though
does anyone have some stats on this morlan kid?? anybody?!?!
the minors are littered with guys who were sure things. You guys remember a guy named Adam Johnson. He was a stud, in the Minors, and the twins wouldn’t trade him for anything. Same thing for “real deal”. Moran may be a stud he may not be. To call him the next Joba is ridiculous.
Morlan is SICK. And he can throw 100 mph.
His K/9 was over 11 I believe.
I can live with this trade, but my biggest question. Is Harris an everyday shortstop?
Please do not compare Morlan to Liriano. While he had arm trouble, Liriano was a consensus ML talent if he stayed healty. I dont know if you can say the same about the Morlan who was named the 16th best prospect in the FSL. He has a chance to make the ML as a reliver…
We just got a guy who was the #1 pick in the draft, the 2005 Minor League player of the year, second place in the ROY voting, a legit MVP potential talent, a 22 year old right-handed bat that makes our linup better instantly. And all the rubes on here can do is bitch about a AA reliever that was needed to complete this trade. Rincon clearly has some elbow issues, the trade falls though without Morlan. I for one am estatic. Great move Smith.
LEN3: Great scoop. Keep up the good work.
i remember Adam Johnson, rookie of the year!!! future cy young winner!!!
o wait he pitched in like 9 major league games… oops
Depending on Harris playing shortstop, the more I read about Morlan, the more I think we gave up too much.
Bowyer could hit 100 mph too… he is really good…
The next Joba Chamberlin? Come on…
[…] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptIt’s official Wednesday, November 28th, 2007 [IMG]The Twins and Tampa Bay Rays on Wednesday night have completed a trade that brings young hitting prospect Delmon Young to the Twin Cities (photo courtesy of USA Today). The Twins have sent righthander Matt Garza, shortstop Jason Bartlett and minor league righthander Eduardo Morlan to the Rays for Young, infielder Brendan Harris and outfield prospect Jason Pridie. Young, 22, who hit .288 last season with 13 homers and 93 RBI and is considered […]
What’s with Rincon’s elbow? I had not heard that before. That sucks as he could have been used as a good chip in another package.
I like the trade overall and think it really puts the pressure on the yankees to include Cano in any deal - not much use for ANOTHER outfielder (cabrera) who is not a great CF. I don’t think there is a yankees deal anymore that includes Cabrera - maybe we get two of their three young starters. We can then package more young pitchers to shore up 3B and DH.
Better yet, it really puts the Mets in play with Reyes as the centerpiece. Nobody has been talking about John Maine as a potential pitcher in a Mets deal either - but he’s very solid and much more predictable than Pelfrey. I’d take those two and maybe a good lower level prospect.
Of course, I still favor signing santana if possible.
Harris is not an everyday SS, more of a 2B. I can see us having Casilla/Punto play SS and playing Harris at 2B.
Gardy likes to have SS that can play D, so my money (as hard as it is to say) is if all stays the same- Punto will play SS.
With Bartlett gone, who bats leadoff?
I guess it will be our new CF, unless we land Rowand.
The cbssportsline.com article earlier quoted someone in the Rays organization who said the deal was being held up because of medical questions with Rincon’s elbow. If anyone can find a better source, that might help the conversation.
So now Morlan is the next Chamberlain?Big difference between blowing away the FSL and actually getting ML batters out.Morlan has upside but he wouldn’t help the Twins until at least 2010.I agree that it would have been more of a steal getting rid of Juanie but letting Morlan go shouldn’t dampen the spirits.
Damn it, we did not get rid of that Stiff Rincon and still have LNP lil Nicky Punto. The Twins are cursed
WHO IS OUR LEADOFF HITTER??????????
this trade just went from a great trade for the Twins to a “Eh” trade for the Twins. I like getting Young and would prefer him (at this point) to Garza. The SS are very similar. Pridie is good if he can become the starting CF. But it absolutely stinks that Rincon was replaced by Morlan. I can’t believe that is what had to happen to make the deal still happen. Very disappointing!
I’m not sure about this trade. It’s all about potential. Potentially Young is a stud. Potentially Garza is a stud. Potentially Morlan is a stud. Don’t think we will really know the full outcome of this trade for a few years yet. But right away we have the upside in that Young has proven he can play in the Majors, whereas Garza and Bartlett have somewhat struggled.
No, seriously Kyle, I hated Crain from first half a dozen times I saw him pitch when he entered a close game with men on-allowed all of them to score, then got a couple outs with no one on to secure a loss for his starter and watch his own ERA fall.
However, I am in the minority…
…and you have been making consistently good points.
Here’s my question-
I watched Pridie in spring training when we had him and thought “this guy looks like he could be a good slap-hitting speedy 3rd/4th outfielder in a year or two after some polishing.” Question is, don’t we already have that guy and isn’t he Jason Tyner? Does anyone know what is supposed to be Pridie’s “upside?”
Also, compare Kubel’s numbers through last season (age 25) with Cuddyer’s through ‘05 (age 26). Kubel looks to be developing at the same rate. I hope he continues to get the opportunity because he’s at the point in his career where he’ll either breakout or fizzle.
That’s the fun stuff.
Morlan is young and with awesome potential. But we have a lot of young with super potential arms down there…
Its too bad though.
He probally could have been in the bigs 2009 or 2010.
But we got one of the best young hitters in the game…
He can bring some righty protection between Joe and Justin.
It should boost all of their RBI levels next year…wow…
It gives us something new to dream about until April!
casilla will bat lead off
oh boy.. would everyone stop worrying about morlan??
geesh.. nobody knew anything about the kid until NOW..
and all of a sudden this trade stinks?
fair weather fans…
come on… be real
this is a GOOD TRADE..
cept it would be ALOT BETTER TRADE if we still had HUNTER!
I love this trade - Garza’s a couple years from being consistent, if he ever shows what people are expecting. Bartlett is already almost 30 and his defense is failing - not to mention his complete lack of power. Morlan is completely unknown, besides what everyone thinks - christ - he’s a AA pitcher, NOT Joba Chamberlain.
Young will play all three outfield positions this year. Let’s hope he learns from his brother’s mistakes.
So when Young posts another sub .320 OBP can we complain then?
Has anything stopped you thus far? And we’re seriously whining about MORLAN now?
Who was Morlan up until about five minutes ago? He’s obviously not valued very highly by the Twins if he’s considered a standin for Rincon in a deal.
With Bartlett gone, who bats leadoff?
I’d imagine Casilla’s penciled in to that spot now. I’d be interested in seeing how people think the lineup would shape up now with Young and Harris (provided he’s going to stick around and not get spun around in another deal).
There’s still plenty of time to package up Rincon. They could tie him on to Nathan or Santana similiar to how Lowell had to go with Beckett to complete the deal.
thank you MH
Hey Seth, as you are the Minor Leage Guru:
Does this make Tyler Robertson move from starter to closer?
I’ve been excited and waiting for this deal to happen for a long time. I agree that I would rather have had it been Rincon but hey, still a good deal. All I’ve heard is about what a stud Young is projected to be. 93 RBI’s for a rook ain’t bad especially a 22 year old rookie. This guy will be better than Torri at hitting and hopefully Pridie helps us get rid of Tyner. I don’t know much about Harris but looking at his numbers last year he looks better offensively than Bartlett and has a similar fielding pctg. If he lacks range move him to 3rd put Punto and Casila at 2B and SS until we find better replacements. Kubel can DH and be our 4th outfielder along with Pridie.
The Twins are loaded with young arms at all levels and throwing in Morlan is fine with me. I could see a team like the Yankees wanting us to throw in a ML ready reliever like Rincon in with Santana to get a deal done so this may not be a bad thing. If we end up keeping Rincon that’s fine also, as much as he’s declined the last few years he’s still above average and if Santana does get traded we could use another veteran presence on the team.
turning out to be one interesting and fun off season ride. looking forward to the next deal. the santana deal has to bring in a top pitching prospect. bill may be showing us he’s not going to sit back and let things go with the flow. he may make a mistake or two but what the heck, the twins are ready for a bit of a shake up, right? it’s definitely not boring.
Geesh - no wonder people think MN sports fans are whinny -Rincon has one bad year and you throw him to the sharks - wonder if you all would do the same if Johan had gone 9-17 after winning a Cy Young?!?
While I’m bummed about Garza- I don’t think this is a bad trade
As for Morlan- as someone said - he pitched great in A and AA - he could totally bomb out in AAA - I guess time will tell
Ok, seriously, people need to step out of their padded rooms.
The Twins are not going to fleece teams in every trade they make. Go to national blogs, overwhelmingly people are saying the Twins got the better end of this deal. Garza for Young straight up is extreamly lobsided, we had to give a little more to land Young.
I like this trade if for no other reason than it never would have been made if Terry Ryan was still the GM.Bill Smith showed me something today.
I think people are forgetting Rincon was a dominant reliever. If he really does have elbow problems, that would explain his performance last year. The truth is Rincon could have been the guy the Twins missed most. Bartlett is not all that great a player. And Garza has yet to really demonstrate he can get major league hitters out consistently.
I think the upside for this trade is better for the Rays - which is unusual in a deal the Twins make. And that is not necessarily a good sign. But the Twins got more certainty. I don’t think Young is going to disappoint. Garza might.
This trade is about potential. That is why I like it. it is a risk/reward trade that Ryan wouldn’t have made. This is a complete change of the way the org is run. The Twins just traded pitching PROSPECTS…For a great ball player.
Morlan and Joba both pitched in the FSL LAST YEAR at the same age with similar results. Morlan IS an important part to this deal and the Twins just got taken. They lost Garza, a starting SS with a good glove, and a top prospect for Delmon Young, a suspect CF prospect, and a utility infielder. Hopefully Smith’s trading skills are better when he deals Santana and Nathan…
Yeah, I still like this deal for the Twins. But, not as much had they been able to dump Rincon.
Moylan is just a prospect, but if we were able to dump Rincon for a prospect like Moylan most people here would be jumping for joy.
Rincon has one bad year and you throw him to the sharks
It’s not just that he had one bad year. It’s that he had one bad year after getting busted for steroids.
That’s more why I’m ticked off about his performace. It leaves me wondering just how good he really was the whole time the Twins were paying his check.
i hear there are reports, I think La Velle even mentioned it that twins are looking at Aaron Rowand… Rowand would be a decent pickup
Rowand > Pridle
Morlan was something special. Like all trades, only time will tell. Remember J.D. “The Real Deal” Durbin?
If Morlan becomes an elite closer and Young becomes a perennial .300-35-100 gu with an OPS+ of 140, will we complain?
I doubt it. The Twins have TONS of arms in the minors at every level. It’s what they do–develop pitchers.
casilla at leadoff??
alright. i have no problem with that
casilla
harris
mauer
cuddy/young
morneau
cuddy/young
kubel
buscher
????
still need a DH.. so i hope they get monroe signed..
still need a 3b…
but if we were able to dump Rincon for a prospect like Moylan most people here would be jumping for joy.
I dunno about that. People seemed pretty pissed in August when the Twins traded Ramon Ortiz of all people for a minor leaguer. What made it even funnier was this guy was a 3rd base prospect.
someone mentioned bowyer..
does he even play baseball anymore??
hello Jeff - Bartlett led the league in errors last year. I see the SS trade as a minor upgrade. Plus Bartlett’s a year older AND more expensive.
Jacoby Ellsbury or Jose Reyes will bat leadoff
We can worry about that when we finalize our roster… besides, who was our leadoff hitter before this trade?
The substitution of Morlan turns this trade into a mediocre one for the Twins. It hurts our depth in the pen and makes it a lot scarier to trade Nathan.
That said, we still did get Delmon Young, so whether the Twins win or lose this trade will depend on whether Vavra and/or watching Mauer every day can help Delmon learn plate discipline. If he does, the sky’s the limit and the Twins will still win this trade. Otherwise, Delmon will have a good but not great career (think Garret Anderson) and we will probably lose the trade.
Harris is an upgrade offensively over Bartlett, and a downgrade defensively. We now have a good 2b, and we now need a SS desperately (please don’t try to tell me Punto or Casilla are the solution)
If we had to include Morlan, I sure wish that we could have gotten Fernando Perez instead of Pridie. Perez would have plugged our CF hole, and given us a prototypical leadoff hitter with one fell swoop. Pridie is more of a 4th OF type IMO.
twins are still in talks for coco.
maybe that means a lineup of
coco
harris
mauer
cuddy/young
morneau
cuddy/young
kubel/young
buscher
casilla/punto?
There’s no way the Twins pony up for Rowand. Their going to have to get a CF through the Santana trade or go with Pridie/Tyner/Young.
T
I don’t remember a single person here being pissed about the Twins dumping Ortiz. I suppose someone was, someone always is. But, I think the overwhelming sentiment on that deal was…who cares?
We are building around the 2 “m’s” Harris will fill second base, with a ss coming from santana trade. Casilla needs more time in minors. I think we are going in the right direction if Liriano’s elbow is back to 2006 form.
Casilla (2B)
Harris (SS)
Mauer (C)
Rowand (CF)
Morneau (1B)
Young (LF)
Cuddyer (RF)
Kubel (DH)
Buscher (3B)
Maybe, maybe not. In all likelihood Nathan and Santana could bring in a SS, 3B, and/or 2B.
This could be a VERY different lineup next year.
Line-up (as of now pre-Santana trade)
Casilla
Tolbert/Punto
Mauer
Morneau
Young
Cuddyer
Kubel (DH)
Buscher
Tyner
Obviously hoping for some holes to be filled in CF and/or 3B at a minimum plus a front end starter with a Santana trade. But commend B. Smith on his first good trade.
Does anyone even want Crisp - do we need a light hitting CF? Hell - use Pridie if that’s what you’re going for. I hate Crisp, so I guess I’m biased.
I WILL SAY THIS
GAME 7 VS THE YANKS IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES
I WILLL TAKE LIRIANO OVER SANTANA ANYTIME
CUZ YOUNG WILL HIT A SOLO SHOT
TWINS WIN 1-0!!!!!!!!!
I’ll miss Bartlett.
Jason Kubel’s line as a DH in ‘07 - 302/385/500
Jason Kubel’s line as a left fielder in ‘07- 259/315/430
Young is proven. Garza is still alot of wishful thinking. Morlan was at least a year or two away from contributing (at least on the Twins he was). All three will probably be All-Star caliber players.
Bartlett was 27 before he became a starter, which by the way, is the age when most players peak. Harris is a couple of years younger and has more power. Would you rather have more power or more speed? I think everyone is tired of the piranha thing. It was fun in 2006 mainly because that’s what we were stuck with and it got results - in 2006.
There’s no way the Twins pony up for Rowand.
It’s 13 million a year for Rowand from what I’ve read. That’s not a whole lot considering the kind of money coming off the books with Hunter gone and now Santana and Nathan on the books.
And how can you assume you know what the Twins are going to do now that you’ve just seen them trade a guy that as recently as a year ago was “untouchable”?
The arrogance of some people…
I don’t remember a single person here being pissed about the Twins dumping Ortiz.
I don’t have the exact quote, but the very first response was “Duuuuuuump!” or something like that.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Kevin.
Oops, forgot about the new guy Harris in place of the Tolbert/Punto combo. Still not a bad line-up before the Santana trade - even with 1 HR Tyner in there!
Casilla
Tolbert/Punto
Mauer
Morneau
Young
Cuddyer
Kubel (DH)
Buscher
Tyner
With Bartlett being traded, Harris will be the starting SS provided another deal isn’t made to bring somebody in.
Maybe you were kidding gil, but explain to me why trading Morlan affects Tyler Robertson in any way?
“Otherwise, Delmon will have a good but not great career (think Garret Anderson) and we will probably lose the trade.”
I would love to get Garret Anderson at 22. The thing is, you are correct, Young might even be better. There is little chance that the Twins lose in this Trade.
Way to go B Smith ! I’ve been paying
attention all day in hoping to acquire D Young. We finally GOT him! I was hoping to get rid of stinky Juan but we gave up Morlan?? He could be our future closer. What a big blow but at least we got D Young. He s a real deal. I predict he’ll hit 30 hr or more in 2008. Just mark my words.
Don’t go for Rowand, we have to remember that Morneau and Cuddyer are set for raises; plus we’ll have to lock up Lirano and Young to long term deals if they perform well in ‘08. I’d rather them spend the money on a decent DH and possible bench depth.
Let’s compare: Young:runner up rookie of the year, 13 HR’s 93 RBI. That makes him our 3rd best hitter already. Harris had better numbers than Bartlett last year. It’s just a fact. If he’s a journeyman utility infielder then Bartlett owes us an apology. Then we gave up a pitcher that might be good this year and a prospect that could be major league ready in a couple years. And complaining because Rincon wasn’t part of the deal? Why not complain that the Devil Rays didn’t take Punto instead of Bartlett?
Agreed Big Jon. I think unloading Bartlett was definitely selling high.
Getting Young so early in his career will be remembered as a very savvy move. If they could only sign him to that contract when he’s a free agent…
Work well done. Rincon can still be packaged with Boof and give something useful in return from teams that are desperate for pitching (Reds, San Diego, Nationals, Dodgers, Cardinals, Diamondbacks, Mets etc). Morlan’s WHIP (1.50 at AA) is fairly high for a reliever and the Twins have Brian Bass, Julio DePaula, Tim Lahey, and Jose Mijares ranked higher than Morlan in their minor league system. I think that the Santana trade would bring the lead off batter.
i think this is a pretty good trade…i hate seeing garza go but im more excited to get delmon young…and bartlett is not that great of a player, he had the most errors in the league last year, all he has is speed, harris is and upgrade over him…and yes it sucks that morlan was included, but the twins keep pumping out top pitching prospects so its a little easier to stomach
Am I the only person looking at what’s come in the last few days and seeing fewer holes in the lineup all of a sudden?
CF/LF (wherever Young doesn’t go), 3B…and MAYBE 2B depending on who takes over LF/CF and 3B.
But honestly. If they bring in Rowand via Free Agency (which looks HIGHLY affordable at 13 mil/yr if they could offer Torii 15)…that leaves 3B and 2B. And they could get that EASY with Santana and Nathan.
Sure the rotation and pen may be shaky in 08. But they can fix that up as the rookies get expereince.
I wonder if now having Young, Cuddyer, Kubel, and Monroe (technically) changes their demands for Ellsbury (and removes Crisp from the equation)
Suddenly the Red Sox aren’t looking like such a hot trade partner anymore. Uh-oh for them…they may have balked they’re way out of this one.
Its not the 13-14 million for Rowand that would be problematic… its the fact that he’s reportedly looking for 6 years. That’s a non-starter in Minn.
Think the Twins are playing the Yanks and Mets, they want Santana in the NL and with his bat it would be a perfect fit. Look for the trade to go to the Mets.With this trade it makes sense.
As far as Rowland goes, there is no way that the Twins will or should do anything at this point. Plain and simple. Pridie would have better numbers than Rowland next year…
I think this is less of a benefit for the Twins, and I didn’t think Bartlett was that bad at all. Garza going is fine by me, but it sounds like the real unfortunate part was the minor leaguer sent packing, and that is a shame.
If they could only sign him to that contract when he’s a free agent…
If he performs. They will. The new stadium is only two years away, and they will NOT make the same mistakes taht put them in this situation with Hunter, Santana, and Nathan.
This trade puts me in a new line of thought. To the point where I’m pretty sure they’ll sign Morneau and avoid arbitration.
we need some speed (delmon had 10 sb) and a left side of the infield…not sure where rowand would fit this pic…not against having rowand ..are we done with kubel or is he on the t/block also??? come on bill…pull the trigger again….
T
i still see enourmous holes in the lineup..
we used to have HUNTER in CF.. now we have YOUNG?? or KUBEL?? or CUDDDY?
we used to have barlett at short..
now we have harris??
still short at 2b 3b, DH
this trade does not fill anyholes we needed filled… it replaces a hole we had filled but got emptied when hunter left
Delmon Young! Welcome to Minnesota!!! I love this move. A good young hitter to build around w/ Mauer and Morneau. All 3 are good now, and only going to get better. Sign Santana long term and I will stain my undies!
I think this is less of a benefit for the Twins, and I didn’t think Bartlett was that bad at all. Garza going is fine by me, but it sounds like the real unfortunate part was the minor leaguer sent packing, and that is a shame.
I was wondering where Craig went off to…
Pridie would have better numbers than Rowland next year…
Young, Kubel, and Cuddyer will be in the OF before Pridie sees the starting lineup. He’s likely going to be the 4th outfielder instead of Lew Ford (which is an upgrade)
Rowand going to CF would move Young to LF and slot Kubel into DH full time. Perfect for his knees.
Morlan pitched 4 innings at AA last year. 4 freaking innings! otherwise he was in High A. He was our future closer? The Next Joba and Krod combined? Get a grip.
Delmon young at 22 played a whole season of ML baseball last year. at 22 Torii Hunter played 1 game.
Garza could be great Morlan could be great, Bartlett could be very good.
Young IS very good and will be great. this trade works on a lot of levels.
Adam - your panties will stay clean. Not to worry.
we used to have HUNTER in CF.. now we have YOUNG?? or KUBEL?? or CUDDDY?
Assuming this is it for the offseason. Which I doubt.
we used to have barlett at short..
now we have harris??
It’s a wash at worst. But looking at his numbers offensivly he’s performed better than Bartlett.
This seems more like the “This isn’t what I’m used to so I don’t like it!” reaction.
m&m’s are the only untouchable twins.
What a horrible move! Where have you gone Terry Ryan?!?
Garza will be a 20 game winner and Bartlett is a solid major league shortstop and we traded for a headcase “prospect” that will likely never live up to his billing. Nice start Mr. Smith. What’s next, Santana for Milton Bradley and a warm six pack of Shasta?
m&m’s are the only untouchable twins.
I’d be surprised if they trade guys like Cuddy or Kubel. Of course, I never would’ve suspected Bartlett to wind up getting traded before either Santana or Nathan.
Wow.
did anyone just watch an interview with Billy smith. Still looking for a CF. I think this puts Young in Left. Those are some big time arms on the corner outfielders.
i just hope we stay away from coco. he brings no upside as far as i can see….just another matt lawton or lew ford…yawwwnnnnn…..
T
no, its not that sort of reaction..
a lineup of hunter, young, kubel, cuddy fills a hole.. a DH spot..
your post said did we fill holes..
my post said NO, i do not think we filled holes..
we replaced the loss of hunter…
and we replaced bartlett.
the trade doesnt fill holes at 3rd.. even if harris plays 3rd.. we dont have a shortstop
dont get me wrong.
I LOVE THE TRADE.
but still enourmous holes to be filled
I don’t think Young is going to play center, but he stills fills a hole, by letting Kubel move to DH. Young made comments last year about not wanting to be in center after he filled in for Rocco there for a few games.
From the USA TODAY’s website.
The Twins may have the second-richest owner in all of sports in Carl Pohlad, with a franchise that may triple in value once they move into their new ballpark in 2010, but they don’t act like it. The rest of the teams in the division, even the Royals, are willing to out-spend them.
Well you read the Tampa Bay blog and the The Ray’s got hozed. You read hear and everyone thinks the Twin’s got hozed.
Morlan or not he is gone (maybe the next Cy Young in a few years) and they acquire two outfielders and 2nd base with tremendous uplift with Delmon Young.
Still don”t know where Pridie fits in.
Win Twins!!
Win Twins!
This is terrible. Silva’s gone. Santana’s basically gone. Who know if Liriano can come back from the surgery. Who is going to be our ace? Boof Bonser? We have completely forgotten that pitchers are way more important than hitters. Look at the Rays. The only decent starter they’ve had in years has been Kazmir, and now they’re paying for it. I hope Bill knows what he’s doing.
C Pierson are you related to Chicken little?
What’s next, Santana for Milton Bradley and a warm six pack of Shasta?
I’ll trade you your posting privleges for Parker Brothers. At least then you’ll have a Clue.
Just read that the Mets are about out of the race for Santana as they have taken David Wright and Jose Reyes completely off the table.
Look it was banned substance that Juan was busted for - no one every verified for sure it was steriods -
if you actually watched Juan pitch instead of constantly whinning and bringing up his suspention - Juan’s velocity wasn’t the issue is was where the ball was landing -to me that has nothing to do with the banned substance issue - ok - Good God let’s see if we can just drop the whole Rincon - steroid thing. It’s done with.
Man is everyone going to bring up Delmon’s bat throwing - when he goes 0-10?!?
Let sleeping dogs die all ready.
Time to live in the present people not in the past.
Where does Pirdie fit?
He plays CF for the twins in AAA so they can demote Span back to AA where he belongs.
funny stuff T.
The Twins may have the second-richest owner in all of sports in Carl Pohlad, with a franchise that may triple in value once they move into their new ballpark in 2010, but they don’t act like it. The rest of the teams in the division, even the Royals, are willing to out-spend them.
Oh cool. Thanks for pointing out a quote from an article that basically:
1) States something we already know (Pohald is one of the richer owners)
2) Reminds us there’s a new stadium coming that ups the team’s value
3) Voices the same tired opinion you’ve been pumping for the last two seasons.
Care to link us to the Twins roster next? I don’t think anybody here knows who’s on it.
I’m guessing the ignorance of not liking this trade is due to the fact that people haven’t seen the Devil Rays play. Calling Young a prospect? Complaining that we lost a minor league player? I don’t recall these same people last year stating: “The Twins didn’t make the playoffs, but I’m happy because the minor league looks good”.
Who’s Craig?
Man is everyone going to bring up Delmon’s bat throwing - when he goes 0-10?!?
What’s funny is that using their logic, I could defend letting Hunter walk because he once threw a baseball back at the pitcher.
I do forsee a number of bat-throwing jokes that will get tired after the first game.
Pridie will start the season in Rochester if he isn’t the starting CF. No way will be DH. Maybe Kubel will tweak his knee in spring training and start at DH, or Pridie may just plain beat him out of a job. Unless that happens, he will be in AAA - the Twins will never let him sit on the bench.
C pierson, Young played all 162 games last year and had 93 RBIs. That’s crazy for a 22 year old.
Morlan wasn’t going to help the Twins until ‘08, or ‘09.
This is a heckuva trade.
This is a good deal for the Twins. Earlier in the day when it looked like Rincon was in the mix, Rays fans were crying that they were getting fleeced, and they probably were. But now, Bartlett for Harris is a wash, Pridie for Morlan is one potential hot prospect for another (and we’re loaded at pitching folks, not in upcoming OF’s) and Garza for Young is freaking fantastic! Sure, Garza has potential, but unless he can get over his love affair with his fastball, he’s not going to realize his potential. Young is a proven hitter, something the Twins desperately need. Thank you Bill Smith! Season ticket renewal is on its way!!!
T- do you need a midol?
I’m guessing the ignorance of not liking this trade is due to the fact that people haven’t seen the Devil Rays play.
I just think it’s because they’ve got nothing better to do. I mean honestly…now trading MORLAN was a bad idea?
Who was this guy on our depth chart?
T, in about a week, it actually might be helpful to see a roster.
I am really looking forward to this next week or so. Billy is showing some onions.
I guarantee after Young hits that first game winning HR, the crowd will be saying “Garza Who?” And I’ve already forgotten the name of our old shortstop. You know, that guy that used to boot the ball around and hit 2 home runs a year.
Twins in Cali says:
November 28th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
I’m guessing the ignorance of not liking this trade is due to the fact that people haven’t seen the Devil Rays play. Calling Young a prospect? Complaining that we lost a minor league player? I don’t recall these same people last year stating: “The Twins didn’t make the playoffs, but I’m happy because the minor league looks good”.
Now that’s funny
T- do you need a midol?
Nah, I went ahead and traded my frustration to the Twins for Juan Rincon.
I think we about broke even. But at least now I have somebody to play catch with.
I would have much preferred to see Baker or Bonser or any of the other young arms go. Hell, throw in Baker AND Boof but Garza has All Star caliber stuff. And as someone pointed out a few posts ago…when Santana gets dealt, what will our rotation look like?
Boof, Slowey, Perkins, Baker, Liriano?
Too many question marks. Garza is still a question mark but it’s nice 2 or 3 of the six would have panned out.
the twins have so much pitching coming through the system who cares that we lost Garza. he isn’t going to win no 20 games with the Rays thats for sure…the twins definitely don’t have anyone like Young, who hit 288/13hr/93rbi in his rookie season, coming through our system…
just for the heck of it, some stats:
Stats from baseball reference
Similar Batters for their ages (* denotes HOF):
Delmond Young:
1. Tris Speaker (970) *
2. Rocco Baldelli (966)
3. Roberto Clemente (963) *
4. Joe Kelley (959) *
5. Mike Tiernan (957)
6. Whitey Lockman (955)
7. Greg Luzinski (951)
8. Terry Puhl (949)
9. Jimmy Sebring (949)
10. Buttercup Dickerson (948)
Torri Hunter:
1. Jermaine Dye (963)
2. Kevin McReynolds (952)
3. Bobby Thomson (949)
4. Bobby Bonilla (943)
5. Joe Carter (940)
6. George Hendrick (936)
7. Frank Thomas (936)
8. Preston Wilson (932)
9. Juan Encarnacion (931)
10. Jose Guillen (931)
I think that this says something…
T come on he was in AA and was the next Joba. Except Morlan actually sweats bug spray so he is probably better,
MH - While I admire your enthusiasm, this isn’t ACCESS VIKINGS. Please respect the caps lock key.
Pridie will start the season in Rochester if he isn’t the starting CF.
Nah, it’ll be Rowand. Unless some team pulls an LAA and sweeps him off his feet with an absurd offer.
C Pierson-Garza is almost as big of a headcase as Young, and I highly doubt he will ever be a 20 game winner… he hasnt shown much in the Majors yet.
I dont think the Twins will take Crisp in a Johan trade unless he is a throw-in. By Febuary, the will be willing to dump him for a mid-level prospect because they have no intentions of starting him as long as Ellsbury is on their roster. That said, I see Crisp as a possibility in CF (not ideal) but if that is the case he will be part of a small trade. The Twins will hold out for a ML ready young star position player in a Santana trade. No Melkey, No Coco… sorry Yankee and BoSox fans.
Great trade!!!
Lets be honest. Only about 20% of pitching studs make it. Young is one of the top 5 hitting prospects in baseball. He was not an MVP as a rookie, but I think having him play 150+ games a year for the next 5-7 years is better then what we lost. Also, lets see where we are in March. I am MUCH more in favor of getting as many low cost super freeks as possible, like Young, instead of prospects or so-so shortstops.
And as someone pointed out a few posts ago…when Santana gets dealt, what will our rotation look like?
It sounds like no matter who the Twins have talked to, they’ve been able to get a young starter included as part of a trade.
Hughes and Bucholz would be a great fit on a developing young staff.
Deal breakdown:
1) Garza for Young. You trade a good young arm for a good young bat. That’s the way it works. The difference here is that Young has proved himself at the plate for an entire year. Garza has showed progress and potential but never completely proved himself.
Advantage = Twins
2) Bartlet for Harris. Bartlett most likely has more upside but the Rays needed a little plus to offset losing a proven bat and outfielder. Harris is a solid bat and regardless of what everyone’s opinion the Twins organization wants Punto to play a lot so will platoon on defense as needed at SS if Harris has less range.
Advantage = Rays
3) Morlan for Pridie. This is an even trade. You trade an unproven pitcher with a high ceiling for an unproven outfielder and bat with a high ceiling. The key here is that the Twins needed organization depth at outfield and at the plate; not on the mound.
Advantage = push
Conclusion = Both teams win on this one as they trade strength for weakness. Rays have good outfield and bats but bad pitchers. Twins are obviously the opposite.
P.S. Bartlett is a good player and will be missed.
P.P.S. Bartlett arrived in the B. Buchanan trade. Since B.B. had little value that trade netted positive value to the Twins organization. Buy low and sell higher works on Hennepin Ave and not just Wall St.
Dave
i apologize for the caps locks
say something intelligent and ill care ABOUT THE CAPS BEING ON!
haha
just playing.. but seriously..
thats all you have to say?
geez..
That REALLY should say “or”. Hughes OR Bucholz.
We wanted offense, we have alot of young arms, the trades are not done, the holes will be filled and maybe a pitcher will be included to make us forget about Garza, sit back and watch the Twins build for 2010 and develop players we can afford to keep.
remember things don’t change unless we can except changes.baseball is a cycle and we need to reload.
the starting rotation of liriano, boof, slowey, perkins, and baker is better from top to bottom than most of the teams in the A.L.
I agree that Garza has some issues between the ears but Rick Anderson’s history of working with young pitchers gave me all the confidence Garza would become great.
You guys are talking me into giving Young a shot.
D SLOW DOWN!
They have about 30 combined wins at the major league level (if that). Let’s hold off on calling that rotation “better than most”.
You guys are talking me into giving Young a shot.
None of us really have a choice in the matter, do we. 
Pierson - do you ever watch the Twins? Baker and Bonser, while not perfect, are much more polished than Garza and have comparable stuff. Especially Baker. Garza makes sense as the odd man out here. Billy sold high on both Garza and Bartlett. But you’re right they’re now very dependent on Liriano.
On paper, the trade makes the Twins much better, at least in 2008. With Young, you get a guy that will be a real teammate to Morneau, Mauer, Kubel, and Cuddyer, and not someone who whines about his buddies not being resigned when free agency and other teams’ foolishness makes them too overpriced to keep around.
My trade options for Santana:
Angels: Willits (CF), Brandon Wood, Ervin Santana (we need another SP and another Santana back on the roster + minor leaguer(s).
Yankees: Phil Hughes (SP), Ian Kennedy (SP), Cabrera (CF), minor leaguer. (If they would give up Chamberlin I would jump at that).
Mets: Miledge (CF), couple pitchers and another ML bat (Miledge would be another young great bat with speed).
Not sure if I would talk with Red Sox, they don’t seem that interested. Seattle also has some good prospects, but i think Santana would veto that trade.
C Piers, Young is the real deal. Trust me I liked Garza, but you have to give up potential to get great talent. Young is Great talent.
the rest of the trade as jimmy stated is pretty much a wash. this works well for the Twins. Now it will be interesting to see how the rest plays out. I am looking forward to it.
Everybody is forgetting one thing. Garza will be pitching for the Devil Rays. With that team he is about a 12 win pitcher, so we’ll come out looking sweet no matter what.
Bill Smith on KARE 11 news flat out said Young will NOT be playing CF for the Twins next year. He said he was looking to make this move with Hunter or without him.
I’m not saying that the change from Rincon to Morlan makes this a bad deal for the Twins. I actually still think it favors the Twins just a little bit. When I thought it was Rincon, I thought it favored the Twins a lot.
someone above mentioned Morlan’s 1.50 WHIP in AA. I was happy that someone pointed out that he had just four innings in AA. He absolutely destroyed Hi-A, and I do believe that he would have been the TWins next great closer.
Bill Smith on KARE 11 news flat out said Young will NOT be playing CF for the Twins next year. He said he was looking to make this move with Hunter or without him.
I had heared something similiar on AM 1500. Apparently the Twins and Rays had been working on this deal for a few weeks before it started coming together today.
Seriously…Rowand. I can’t be the only person who doesn’t feel it.
What’s all this “building for 2010″ crap?
We weren’t that far away this coming year with 2 more bats!
There is no guarentee we’ll be good 2 years from now. We could have had a real chance to make a run this year with Santana, Liriano, Garza, Baker, and Boof as a fifth starter which is all he should ever be. Trade a couple OTHER young arms for bats and we’d have a shot. Actually, just substitute a basset hound for Punto at third and we’d score another run a game!
I’ll take an every day player over a 5th day player any day, besides, we have plenty of pitching, remember we couldnt score any runs last year?
rowand cf
punto/harris 2b
mauer c
morneau 1b
young cf
cuddyer rf
3b
kubel/t clark dh
casilla ss
this would not be bad…especially if we could land a stud from the santana trade to start at 3b …just some thoughts, am i that far off??
Anyone have a link to video/audio of what Bill Smith said after the trade?
The Twins problem was holes in the batting order. Young is going to be an improvement on Hunter in that regard.
They do need to deal with third base. They have Butscher there, but I doubt they want to go into next season with him as the only option. But who has a third baseman that they are willing to give up in a deal for Santana. I don’t see it.
I doubt Pridie is ready to take over in center. But do you really think dealing Santana for Crisp is going to make the Twins a better team next year? Crisp is more the sort of player you get for a couple young pitchers like Bonser and Blackburn.
I think this deal makes the idea of keeping Santana and taking a run at contention more compelling. They can still deal Santana at the deadline, but if they keep him and things go right they really can compete with Detroit and Cleveland.
Couple things coming from an Angels fan and Nationals season ticket holder:
The Nats had Harris from 2004 to 2006 with a stop in Cincy during that time as part of the Kearns/Lopez trade. He always seemed like a utility guy in the Nats system, but never really had a chance to play full time. If I remember, Harris was a big part of an LSU College World Series Champ. The Rays picked him up for nothing, gave him some playing time and he produced. Hes not the second coming of Cal Ripken, but hes no worse than Bartlett. Better hands, less range, little more pop.
I’d be surprised to see Casilla start the season as either a SS or 2B for the Twins. I’d guess another move or two are in the works to solidify the infield and CF - way to go out on a limb, I know, based on all the rumors.
Young is, well, young (just turned 22) and obviously immature based on his past occurences. But he had been regarded as the best hitting prospect (or two, with Gordon in 07 & Mauer in 05) since 2005 leading up to his rookie season. Be thankful the Rays slowplayed Young’s progression to the majors and delayed his MLB service time. That will keep him Twins property for a longer period. Every projection on Young has been superstar, whether it was Keith Law, Jon Sickels or the guys at Baseball America. Yes, they’ve been wrong before (see Greene, Todd or Jefferies, Gregg).
I personally like the fact the Twins gave up a pitching prospect with potential, a minor league reliever (which current stud closers were minor league relievers by the way? - not many) and switched shortstops for a potential impact, everyday player in Young & a servicable 4th OF in Pridie. 162 games to change an outcome or 32 games to change an outcome - which would you prefer?
Remember, one of the reasons why Carlos Pena was able to have such a great season is Young hit behind him & Jonny Gomes hit behind Young which, well, ain’t so good. Imagine Young hitting between Mauer & Morneau. Geez.
Even with the switch of Morlan for Rincon, I would still make this trade 6 days a week & twice on Sundays if I was the Twins.
I thing D is jumping a little; but i like the “potential” of the starters and then with Blackburn and Duensing waiting in the wings!?!? Why wouldn’t we trade one of our stud pitchers for a bat that the Twins so desprately need (maybe two if Harris pans out)?
Quick Garza question…did he ever get his win at the Dome?
It’ll be interesting to see him in his first game back. There could actually be quite a few interesting homecomings this season. Hunter first game of the season. Twins vs. Garza, Santana and Nathan potentially popping up.
08 could be very dramatic.
T-
If the Twins get Rowand, I don’t worry about not getting Crawford or Upton.
Rincon for an unused midol… that’s a toss up on a trade. You must be single because I think as a married man the Midol would be more valuable to me than Rincon would be… unless I was taking batting practice… then it would be a toss up.
Bobb,
Don’t tell me you think Baker and his 91mph fastball has any where near the stuff of Garza! While Boof can rival Garza’s mph and curveball, Boof has demonstrated he’s nothing better than a fourth or fifth starter.
I wouldn’t object to getting Hughes if we get a bat to go with him.
we have plenty of pitching
What pitching is that with Santana, Silva and now Garza gone? Baker, Bonser, Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins? Maybe Liriano? That looks like a great AAA pitching staff.
TT I think this basically almost guarantees Santana is gone. In my opinion trading Garza away assumes you will replace him yet this off season.
Nathan or Santana will bring back some ML ready starters yet this year.
About the starting pitching and what might come in a Santana trade, have a look at this/.
I did not have time to crunch the numbers for the relievers, but the summary is that Garza (other than Boof) was the least likely to succeed ML-ready pitcher in the system and other than the Yankee trio, Buchholz or Weaver, the existing starters are better than what the Twins can get for Santana…
Rob Neyer says this trade tilts for the Twins, but I’m too cheap to read the whole article.
Tax Guy… Bonser and Garza are not comparible. Bonser couldnt even keep his job in the rotation this past season. I will not be suprised one bit if he does not break spring training in the rotation.
DTF- I like Gomez in a Mets trade more than Miledge- Jose Reyes once said that he “couldnt keep up with Gomez” when talking about his speed. And he hits for average.
C Pierson, all teams - even the Twins - need fifth starters. Ours can be Boof. One thing I like about the Boofer is that his teammates put up alot of runs for him. Boof can be a middle innings guy too, and he’s young.
I don’t see anybody mentioning Silva, but I think the rotation has a real hole without him. He will probably leave, and THAT is why the Twins want a starter included in any deal for Santana.
Good night T and Kay!
I wasn’t the one saying Baker is as good as Garza. that said, Baker is a smarter pitcher garza has better stuff. And I agree with you about Boof.
ok, im not saying our possible starting pitching rotation will be great, but its not going to be the worse…i think they can be in the middle of the pack, and with twins seemingly concentrating on upgrading the offense, i dont think it will be any worse then last year
I anxiously await to see what Mr. Smith is going to do next. TR helped to build a solid organization, but he was too timid come trade time and forever hording his pitching prospects for futures that never came.
Two more things before I sign off to dream sweet dreams of coming Twins’ seasons: (1) Great scoop L3 and thanks for staying on top of this!; and (2) I will not miss Garza’s spitting festivals on the mound. What’s up with that? Sheesh, it’s liked he’s the long lost twin brother of Mark Parrish.
So, near as I can tell, the people that disagree with this trade is because Garza was going to be the Twins savior this year? Or was it Bartlett? I lost track during all the insanity.
I agree with JimCrikket, the 13 mil isn’t the problem. It is the six years he wants on a deal. We won’t do that. How about this, offer Jones a 2 yr $30-32 mil dollar type deal. He is not going to get the money he should on a 5 to 6 year deal because of his horrible season. He is certainly not washed up and he will get more per year in this deal then he is being offered. He puts up two great years and he is still only 31 and can get another big five year deal. You say why would he risk losing out on a guaranteed deal for say 5 yr $65 to $75 mil type deal for 2 years at $32 mil? Because he will get slightly above per year pay on the two year deal and if he performs he could get a much bigger deal in two years. Think about it; 5 yrs $70 mil compared to 2 yrs $32 mil plus a new 5 yrs $95 mil deal. His next five years of pay is suddenly 5 yrs $89 mil instead of 5 yrs. $70 mil. Does that make sense to anybody? I think this is a better option than signing Rowand to a five or six year deal. That offense would probably be the best in baseball this side of the Yankees and you can ride our young arms or Hughes, Liriano, Slowey, Baker.
So the Twins need a SS, 3b, CF, DH now?
Better have some good trade in the works for Santana and Nathan!! Cause the middle of the field is looking like a big ? right now! Then you have to hope all these new players can co exist in the locker room and develope GREAT chemistry! Problem is that a few years from now the ownership chooses not to afford contracts again
What pitching is that with Santana, Silva and now Garza gone? Baker, Bonser, Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins? Maybe Liriano? That looks like a great AAA pitching staff.
It’ll be fine for a year while they get their legs under them. Of them, it’s what…Baker or Boof with the most experience, and that’s only a year’s worth of games at most right?
So the Twins need a SS, 3b, CF, DH now?
Harris is the starting shortstop barring a trade. It’s essentially an even swap.
the 13 mil isn’t the problem. It is the six years he wants on a deal. We won’t do that. How about this, offer Jones a 2 yr $30-32 mil dollar type deal.
Is that first line about Rowand or Jones? Because I don’t see Jones as an option.
1) He’s got Boras as an agent.
2) Rowand has already stated 12-13 million a year. He’d take 3-4 years.
Problem is that a few years from now the ownership chooses not to afford contracts again
If I had a dollar for every time somebody’s said almost this exact line regarding this deal, I could probably afford to sign Rowand FOR the Twins.
It should be painfully obvious just watching what’s played out today that the Twins philosphy has changed. Garza not but a year ago was untouchable, now he’s gone.
The Twins have learned from their mistakes with Johan and Hunter. They will NOT let it happen again.
Delmon Young is the next Buttercup Dickinson….!!! LOL, that is a great baseball name.
What I do know is, there hasn’t been this much Twins excitement in the off season since I don’t know when. There has been about 400 posts since Lavelle brought this up this morning. We’re talking baseball during a Vikings season. That never happens.
Go Halos Go- good post. Thank you, it was insightful.
“which current stud closers were minor league relievers by the way? - not many”
Great point, most minor league closers that make it to the majors end up as bullpen stuffers.
(Morlan) geesh…nobody knew anything about the kid until NOW…
Just because you didn’t know about Morlan, don’t transger your ignorance to everyone. Morlan was a top five prospect in the Twins system. To include him in place of an expensive and inneffective (or injured) Rincon is just stupid.
If TB didn’t want Rincon, there were plenty of other pitchers in the system the Twins could have given. Smith flinched, and that is the first bad move he’s made.
I had a hard time stomaching giving up Garza and Bartlett, but they got Young and a utility guy, so I was accepting of it. Garza will be a #1, and Bartlett >>>> Harris.
Giving up one of our top prospects when they probably didn’t really have to was a bad move. Call their bluff, Billy. What did you have to lose?
Morlan…eh, another pitching prospect. We have 5 to take his place. Rincon will bounce back this coming year if he isn’t packaged with anyone else. Love Garza for Young. Love it
The Twins have a minor league pitching surplus and dipped into it. I don’t mind having Morlan thrown in.
189 hits and 13 HR, suckers. Thanks for Garza. ha ha.
I heard Rowand was looking for 6 years, 84 mil, so I don’t think he’d take 12-13 mil per year for 3-4 years.
why is everyone suggesting that bartlett is a superior player to harris…yes bartlett has great speed, and thats about it..bartlett has great range, but so what because he just boots it anyways…harris is more reliable at defense, and he hit better with more power then bartlett, upgrade
ok, im not saying our possible starting pitching rotation will be great, but its not going to be the worse
I don’t see how the Twins rotation, sans Santana, is not going to be worse. When you add the loss of Silva and Garza it is hard to see how it gets better. Liriano might replace Santana, but its doubtful after year away.
It’ll be fine for a year while they get their legs under them.
Some of them will never get their legs under them. If your point is that the Twins trading Santana and Nathan means that they will now lose because of their lack of pitching instead of hitting, I think that is a pretty good bet.
I’m hoping the Smith keeps his head and only makes deals that make the Twins better no matter what the fans think. It looks increasingly like dealing Santana right now isn’t one of those deals.
And Garza was a proven pitcher TT?
Halos makes some great points
I have to wonder how Gardy is going to work with all these young players. He’s shown a lack of patience with them in the past and a strong preference for mediocre veterans over promising youngsters. Is he the right manager to meld these guys into a winning club? Just a thought…
TT, you keep writing things that make me cringe.
you claim Garza hasn’t proven he can consistently get MLB hitters out. His ERA in ‘07 was 3.69. Cy Young Sababathia posted a 3.21. That’s as much proof as you can expect with little opportunity.
Then you write
“The Twins problem was holes in the batting order. Young is going to be an improvement on Hunter in that regard.”
Whatttt!?!?
Hunter .287, 28 HR, 107 RBI, 101 SO
Young .288, 13 HR, 93 RBI, 127 SO
If Young in ‘08 puts up Torii’s ‘07 numbers, that’ll be a nice improvement for him. Where do you get the confidence that he’ll surely be an improvement over Hunter?
I’m glad both the Rays and Twins did very well for themselves in the trade. Now Smith can rob TB blind in the next deal.
The rotation in 2008 will certainly be worse than it was in 2007, and our pitching might even be bad this coming year with a rotation like Hughes/Liriano/Slowey/Baker/Bonser (assuming a Santana trade), but at this point it seems to me the importance is watching the young players develop for a year or two before they become a potentially great rotation. And, if some don’t pan out, then there are more prospects who could be ready by late 2008/2009 to replace them.
To everyone complaining: We were all complaining about lack of offense this past season, well they’re trying to fix that. Seriously it was terrible watching great pitching consistently lose 1-0 or 2-0 because we couldn’t hit for spit. Bring in more offense I say! I love it!
Morlan was a top five prospect in the Twins system
No, he wasn’t. Not even close. He was a hard throwing minor league reliever who had barely got out of A ball. There are probably at least ten pitchers in the Twins system that are better prospects, not to mention position players.
Bartlett was a flash in the pan. He had a great 99 game run in 2006, that’s all. He had an attitude problem and was a below average fielder and hitter last year. People seem to think he was the next Greg Gagne. He’ll be a bench player in two to three years.
Now bear with me and my insanity. Say we can drive this Johan war through the roof.
Say we can get the Yankees to give us Cano and Hughes for Santana and Casilla. Which I don’t care what anyone says, I still think it is fair value for both teams. Cano is an all-star and Hughes has great talent, but Santana is the best pitcher in the game and his worth to counter Beckett is unmeasurable.
SS Harris
2B Cano
C Mauer
CF Jones
1B Morneau
LF Young
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel
3B Buscher/Tolbert
1) Liriano
2) Hughes
3) Slowey
4) Baker
5) Perkins/Bonser
Who has the team of all-stars now. I know I seem like I am hitting a lightbulb, but its not impossible. Granted we would never be able to keep this club together for more than two or maybe three years, but wholly crap would it be an awesome club.
“Giving up one of our top prospects when they probably didn’t really have to was a bad move. Call their bluff, Billy. What did you have to lose?”
Looks like the Twins first mistake was not selecting this clown for GM. All the naysayers here think we can just impose our will on the Devil Rays, like it’s some Jedi Mind Trick. “We want Garza.” “No you don’t, you want Boof”. “Um, Ok.”
As far as CF goes, there are several options. With this trade the Twins have an excess of outfielders. It looks like it is given that Monroe goes. Young, Cuddy and Kubel cannot play CF. Pridie could potentially fulfill this role right away. It would be great if the Twins can sign Milton Bradley for a CF/DH role, since he would probably come cheap ($5-6 mil a year), he hustles and is passionate about the game. The one thing that concerns me about what is going on is that even though there is a great nucleus being built for the future, there is not enough veteran presence in the clubhouse. I wish that they try to get Dmitri Young (Delmon’s brother btw) for a DH role (hopefully Boof and Rincon would be enough for the pitcher-starving Nats). It’s still an early post-season and a lot of things minght clear up the next couple of weeks…
Who is “Jones” in CF? And, assuming it’s Andruw, how did he get there?
So the Twins get two good, young guys..
They give away Garza and Bartlett…
Ok, I would have preferred they kept Garza for a year and see how he does with some run support….
Bartlett I liked but oh well….
My question is this…..
Who is in charge and has a brain??
They let Hunter get away with nothing in return….
They keep Punto….. who should be thanking every deity/higher power possible for just getting his average over .200
Ridiculous and they want people to spend money on tickets??????
God I am so happy for Hunter, Garza, Bartlett and soon to be Johan for getting away from this circus.
it’s amazing the Tampa blogs are against this trade also, must be a bunch of minnesota transplants that now follow the Rays.
So one of our future All-Star pitchers, and two so-so players for a decent hitter who can’t hold onto his bat when he’s facing an umpire? No no sounds fair. I bet Liriano can’t be too happy.
What’s better, run support or All-Star caliber pitchers who will draw a crowd to our new stadium?
They probably should have traded hunter at the deadline last year, in hindsight. Too bad, so sad. Maybe that pick will become a HOFer. We’ll see how that worked in 5 or 6 years.
Garza is an all star caliber pitcher? Dream on DeLong, he’s not even close to that point right now. You’re assuming much too much.
If no one has noticed, Harris hit twice as many doubles and triples as bartlett did last year and his numbers look almost identical to that of Delmon Young, except the RBI number, Bartlett was horrible fielder and Harris is an awesome upgrade for SS. And people need to get over Hunter, he’s now overpaid and his production will go down due to his age.
His ERA in ‘07 was 3.69.
Take a look at Garza’s splits. He had a great start and then he faded. In July he averaged over 6 innings per start and had a 1.37 ERA. After that he barely averaged 5 innings per start and his ERA in August was 5.34 and in September 4.10. Both months teams hit over .300 against him.
It has all the appearances of a guy the scouts caught up with. That doesn’t mean he can’t adjust again. But he has not proven he can.
The whole thing just stinks.
So, near as I can tell, the people that disagree with this trade is because Garza was going to be the Twins savior this year? Or was it Bartlett? I lost track during all the insanity.
You imply Delmon Young is the savior this year? Garza/Young is basically even, with the edge to the Twins because of pitching volatility and injury risks. But Bartlett is an outstanding fielder…Harris is not. (If you argue “errors” you’re about five steps behind).
And I doubt that Harris will be a better hitter in the long run. He doesn’t have the same on-base abilities as Bartlett, and he certainly doesn’t have the speed. And if he ends up playing 3B, he’s a much worse hitter.
Morlan did not have to go.
What the???? When did Garza make the All Star Team? I must have missed that. And Hunter signed a sick deal with the Angels. Why in the heck would we match that offer? Some people just aren’t happy. You either wanted us to stand pat or you think some miracle will happen and every other team will trade their good players for guys we no longer want.
I love the trade - Garza was not a sure thing, and Young is an exciting young bat this lineup needs, and right handed at that. He will be duplicating Torii’s numbers soon, and with Kubel able to DH
Great trade Minnesota. Great trade. I like Slowey and Baker in this rotation more than Garza. Much more consistency, it just took Baker a little longer that most hoped. I think they will both have ERAs in the high 3s low 4s
Twinstalker - Bartless a great fielder? Come again?
It cut off my post! With Kubel able to DH, we will have 4 guys (5 if we can get a solid 3b in a trade with Santana?) who could knock out 25 dingers or more - when was the last time we could say that?
Bartlett, my bad.
The other thing people forget is that Pridie needs to be protected, so instead of 3 for 3 roster spots, we gave up 2 and took on 3 because Morlan does not have to be put on the 40. That means someone else has to go now. Or that we can’t take on as many major leagers in any other trades we make.
Bartlett was not as bad a fielder as his number of errors suggest, but he wasn’t really a great fielder either.
People usually do look at the errors when they talk about their defense. And both young and harris are rookies, i’m glad your already beating up on them for the future. Also, if you claim that bartlett was a better fielder, i’m willing to bet that harris’ offense will make up for it.
I’m not worried about the 40-man roster. We still have guys like Chris Basak and Darnell McDonald on it.
it’s amazing the Tampa blogs are against this trade also, must be a bunch of minnesota transplants that now follow the Rays. They just never heard of Garza and the team has been talking up Young. Once they realize they burned the Twinks they’ll be happy to get rid of that crybaby Young.
Bartlett is mediocre bordering on below average. That’s what he is. He does have range but a subpar arm. He’s adequate but by no means is he a good/above average fielder.
Delmon should be solid, but I wish he would play center. We should focus on position players in a potential trade for Santana. It becomes a no-go when we ask for the true aces of the future (Joba, Kershaw, etc). A Milledge, Gomez and prospect deal seems pretty attractive plus I hear Johan prefers to go to a NYC team.
young is a huge upgrade over garza because we dont have anyone in the system, we have pitching..and harris is not that bad at fielding and bartlett has great range, so what he boots it when he gets there, and whats so special about his bat?
How is Young a crybaby?
Where do you get the confidence that he’ll surely be an improvement over Hunter?
I actually was looking ahead, not behind. I don’t expect Hunter to put up those numbers again and I would be surprised if Young doesn’t surpass them at some point. I think Hunter and Young are really a wash (offensively) for next year.
crybaby Young…his image hasn’t been tainted by a couple of young mistakes, has it? how many of you learned as you got older about how to act mature? Please…that is a boring stance/argument.
I don’t think the Mets have enough to offer (especially with the loss of Garza) without including Reyes, which they reportedly aren’t going to do. Not to say I wouldn’t entertain offers from them, just saying they probably wouldn’t have enough.
Trade Santana now, and Nathan end of summer to a play off contender, remember the Tigers 3 years ago, they came out of nowhere with young talent.
seems to be our sports theme in this city, go young, young man.
If Young can produce somewhere around the numbers from last year, this is one of the better trades we could have made.
“So who wins? The Twins, if only because if there’s a player in this deal who’s playing in the 2010 All-Star Game, it’s Delmon Young.” - Rob Neyer of ESPN.com
Bartlett was not as bad a fielder as his number of errors suggest, but he wasn’t really a great fielder either.
LMAO. Um, how do we measure fielders if not by fielding percentage? Somebody please educate me as to why Harris is worse than Bartlett? Because so far all I’m going by is the numbers they put up in games. I’m not sure what else to go by.
How does that make him a crybaby though?
and chances are young will improve his numbers as he learns the league and…well…grows up. I wonder what Hunter’s numbers were his rookie year.
Anyone who types that Morlan is “just another high A-Baller” is simply uninformed.
I am not agianst the trade but the reality is we gave up a good young pitcher, solid SS and a GREAT pitching prospect.
Its not a Terry Ryan style fleeceing. And it shows that if we trade Santana, we are not going to get the guys we all salivate over.
First of all, THANKS LENIII for the reporting and fun.
Next, TAKE IT EZ, FOLKS. There are a lot of tits for tats in the analysis.
At season’s end, the Twins had 3 holes — 3B, 2B, DH.
They solved the DH (Kubel’s knees won’t be in LF anymore). But there’s a new hole in CF.
So it’s a wash so far.
And looks like they solved 2B with Harris. But now there’s a hole at SS.
So overall, it’s the same number of holes left, 3 (SS, CF, 3B).
Additionally at season’s end, they needed to bolster right-handed power hitting. That’s a wash too with the loss of Hunter and the gain of Young.
So Smith has righted the ship again (after the loss of Hunter), but it’s still headed to the shoals for next season.
Instead of suffering the loss of Hunter, we now suffer the loss Garza.
So we’re essentially in the same shape as we were at season’s end, being a little worse off cuz of the loss of Garza and a little better off because there’s payroll for Smith to use.
Using this payroll and a possible Santana trade, Smith STILL needs to decide whether to try and steer clear of the rocks for next season, or to rebuild.
I’m thinking it’ll be the latter. Because there’re too many holes to keep Santana around.
Not as good as Youngs
It is Andruw and we can definitely afford him in the sort term. Give him roughly the deal we offered Torii maybe a little more to entice him and let him prove his naysayers wrong. Dumping Santana we can put that money towards a huge short term FA signing like A.Jones and then lock up Morneau and Young. When Jones contract runs up in two years you spend that on Liraino and Mauer. Definitely wouldn’t be able to keep Mauer,Morneau, Young and Cano. Cano would probably be the one to go. (Back to NY probably)
It sound crazy, but the money isn’t a problem. Lock Morneau and Cuddyer up to new deals.
Jones 15.0 per
Morneau 11.5 per
Mauer 8.25 per
Cano 6.0 per (ARB)
Young 400k (give him a six year deal after ‘08 and buy out 2 years of FA)
I don’t think Harris is worse than Bartlett first of all; if anything, I think he’s an upgrade. Second of all, most people will tell you the fielding percentage is probably the worst way to judge a player’s defensive ability.
But Bartlett is an outstanding fielder…Harris is not. (If you argue “errors” you’re about five steps behind).
Behind who? Bartlett lead the major leagues in errors, which is proof positive he isn’t an “outstanding fielder”. And this is not some kid who just needs seasoning.
That said, it does not sound like Harris is much of a shortstop - more of a second baseman. If he is paired with Punto, my guess is Punto is the shortstop.
I think people are underestimating Trevor Plouffe. He hit well in the AFL this fall and may be able to take the job in spring training.
Twins in Cali - can’t say for sure, but Bartlett had fantastic range - issues were with fielding and throwing errors (which I won’t defend)…but analysts put a lot of stock in “range” especially at SS. But i saw him boot a lot and make a lot of bad throws - i can’t overlook the errors very easily.
Well his bro Dmitri had some off the field problems well into his 30’s, so you never know. By the way, there sure is a large age gap between the Young brothers, ~12 years!
remember Bull Durham the pitcher with 100mph fastball and no control, maybe the Rays can teach Morlan to breath out of his eyes.
I’d keep Baker and Liriano over Garza too, but I don’t really think either side got a “better end of the deal.”
Garza has been widely considered one of the elite pitching prospects in baseball. Pitching (especially starting pitching) is tougher to come by and more in-demand league-wide than is hitting.
Young is a top tier hitting prospect with a little more MLB experience. I expect him to be exciting to watch. I expect his production to improve off last year. However, he’s not at a position where we need the help.
3B, 2B, and CF are still our holes.
Kubel is fine in left/DH. He’s just a year or two behind Cuddy.
Range is nothing while leading the majors in errors. Get to a ball, throw it away, player goes to 2nd. Not get to a ball, player gets a single.
1999 135 384 52 98 17 9 35 .255 .309 .380
2000 99 336 44 94 14 5 44 .280 .318 .408
Since Young had more ABs his rookie year, I show you Torii’s first two (ages 24-26)
234 games, 720AB, 96R, 192hits, 31doubles, 14 HR, 79RBI, 14 SB…
What were Delmon’s this year in 162 games at age 22?? Delmon will be better offensively, that should be obvious.
most people will tell you the fielding percentage is probably the worst way to judge a player’s defensive ability.
I don’t think that is true. I think most people will tell you that you can’t judge a player by his fielding percentage. It is only one part of the equation. But I don’t think there is anyone who says errors don’t matter or that you can lead the league in errors and still be a great defensive player. Catching and throwing are still important.
Maybe Delmon was a cry baby because he played for the Devil Rays. Hell, I would be.
.288 with 13 HR, 93 RBI, 38 Doubles, 10 SB
I would say errors can be used to a degree, but fielding percentage is much less valuable. A player with little range who makes plays on only the bare minimum that he can actually get to may have a great fielding %, but actually be a poor defensive player.
Before dissing Harris away, have you ever even seen him play?
Again how is Young a crybaby, i’ve never heard him complain.
Delmon between Mauer and Morneau? Yum…that will be fun to watch.
you’ll be calling him a crybaby soon too.
Including Morlan instead of Rincon is a little disappointing, but nearly as dramatic as many people here are making it sound. It’s very rare for a minor league reliever to make much difference at the major league level. Most of the best relievers in the majors are all once highly regarded starters. Think about it: Rivera, Nathan, Papelbon…almost without exception they are former starters. Morlan has a chance of being good, but it’s relatively low. The upside is that Delmon Yound has a higher chance of being a star than anyone else in this deal. Good deal for the Twins.
All i know is that the bartlett-casilla double play combo was weak sauce
I agree with Wood. Chances are nobody here has really seen Harris play except when TB was in Minny or were on the tube. I think he is an upgrade over Bartlett and will man SS until Plouffe is ready to come up.
You know what, he can cry all he wants, as long as he keeps putting up good numbers.
So overall, it’s the same number of holes left, 3 (SS, CF, 3B).
Not really. Harris is a marked improvement offensively over Bartlett. So they have added offense, even if Punto is at shortstop and Harris at second. They had a hole at DH. That is now filled. They are really down to two holes - third base and center field. And they have added a lot of offense.
Or until they find another SS and let Harris take over 2nd.
punto has ss harris will be put at 2nd, unless a ss comes in a trade
No, they’ll move Punto to SS if they can’t find someone else.
A player with little range who makes plays on only the bare minimum that he can actually get to may have a great fielding %, but actually be a poor defensive player.
I agree, but that isn’t what we have with Bartlett. We have a guy who makes a lot of errors, even considering how many chances he gets. Which is what fielding percentage measures.
Thanks Jay D, for reminding us who will be in the 2010 AS game — Young, not Hunter
BTW, did I miss something? Has Silva signed with someone?
TT
i think monroe is a cf
no
Monroe can play the entire outfield.
cf hole filled
I’m astonished at how many people are against this trade. I think this is incredible for us. We need powerful bats and Delmon Young is going to be a great, great baseball player. He is an excellent hitter and a great defensive player. Did anyone else see the throw he made to throw out a Twin at 2nd when we played them at Tropicana last year?
There is a huge difference between the potential of a guy who has been in the majors for a year and proven himself and a guy who has a nice fastball in AA. It kind of sucks to get rid of Garza, but we have such a gluttony of good, young pitchers that I’m not upset about getting rid of him.
Anyone who is complaining about getting rid of Bartlett, did you watch the Twins last year? Bartlett’s got good range, but how many easy throws did he botch? For a while, he was second in all of baseball in errors begind Betancourt. And defense is his strength. I’m not going to even go into the offense.
On Rincon, I think he’s about done being good and this isn’t something I decided because he had one bad year. I’ve seen two major swings in the Juan Rincon saga in my time as a Twins fan. First, we had pre-steroid Rincon and post-Steroid Rincon. Pre-steroid Rincon was without question the best reliever in all of baseball and one of the best pitchers period. For much of one season, I remember he had like a 0.8 ERA and enough innings pitched to be compared to the starters in the paper. Incredible. Post-steroid Rincon was one of the better relievers in baseball for a couple years.
The second swing I saw was 2 years ago to last year. Last year he was absolutely atrocious. He became, for me, pretty much the last reliever I wanted going out there. He was getting absolutely shelled. People say “he was hurt, he’ll be back.” First off, his elbow probably still isn’t in good shape now, that’s probably why he’s not in the deal. it’s been months since he last pitched. This is how steroids work. Former roiders run into injury problems because the steroids were substituting and have now been removed. He’s gonna be plagues by injuries the rest of his career.
I’m pumped about this trade and there’ll be more to come. Nathan’s probably going and same with Santana. I’m impressed with Smith thus far.
That’s why I’m saying that field % isn’t a great stat. It would say Bartlett is a bad defensive shortstop because it doesn’t measure the extra chances he gets with his good range, but I also don’t feel that he is a great shortstop because he still made a large number of errors.
Good god, stop talking about fielding percent
Rowand CF
Harris 2B
Mauer C
Young LF
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer RF
Kubel DH
Buscher 3B
Punto SS
Santana
Liriano
Baker
Slowey
Bonser
That is if they sign a CF replacement, promote 3B in house and do not trade Santana. Not that bad…better than last year’s lineup.
I’ve seen Harris play plenty. He’s improved a lot over when he came up. When the ball is hit toward him at shortstop, he doesn’t make the play as often as Bartlett does. In other words, Bartlett makes errors on balls Harris can’t get to. Remember the ball sort of toward the middle that Guzman always let go under his glove? Bartlett got those.
Harris is an okay player but doesn’t bring the on-base or fielding skills that Bartlett does. He has shown more power, but I’m suspect that he’ll show much more than Bartlett going forward. Bartlett is a good gap hitter who will start knocking the ball out of the park.
Harris intrigued me for about three seconds back when he was a Cubs prospect. He’s a gamer, and we’ll all like him. But he’s simply not as good as Bartlett. If he were, there’s no way TB would include him.
I’m not sold on the Twins getting rid of Monroe. I don’t think a 1 year deal would be a bad idea. Sure, it would be overpaying for a bench player, but I could see Pridie in AAA and Monroe as the 4th OF (ahead of Tyner). With the potential loss of Santana and Hunter gone, there is plenty of payroll flexibility. If Pridie is going to be on the MLB roster, though, I don’t think there is room for Monroe.
You are really stretching on Rincon Dan. Best reliever?? He never was in the upper echelon
“What were Delmon’s this year in 162 games at age 22?? Delmon will be better offensively, that should be obvious.”
No one ever posed or challenged the idea that a 23 year old Delmon Youngs offense is likely to be an upgrade over a 23 year old Torii Hunter’s offense. My point was, it doesn’t make sense to say that Delmon’s numbers next year are bound to be an improvement over Torii’s last year. Let’s temper enthusiasm a with a little reality. Ballplayers develop over time, if they develop at all, and fans of this team should know that you can’t project an arc accurately.
After Mauer’s ‘06 season, he should’ve matured into a .370 hitter in ‘07, right?
Bartlett hit .309 in ‘06. with more experience and maturity, why didn’t he add a dozen homers in ‘07?
We can’t realistically sit here and say Delmon Young will more than make up for the loss of Hunter in the lineup.
That was my point.
Having said that, I’ll welcome his bat.
keep up the good work, pops. now, if Johan has to go, lets move Mauer to third to save his health and pick up Lester, George Kottaras, and Crisp from the Red Sox. Maybe they will throw in Lester or Okajima for good measure for letting them keep Ellsbury… and Johan away from the Yanks.
TT, most thought there was a hole at 2B with the Punto/Casilla thing.
Now that’s been transferred to SS.
That’s why I said there are still 3 holes.
And Harris giving us more offense has been easily offset by the loss of homerun production in losing Hunter and gaining Young.
There has been no improvement in the Twins since season’s end.
We don’t NEED Harris to play SS. First of all, he doesn’t have the range to play that position well. That’s why Tampa Bay traded for Bartlett. Second, he’ll be a fine second baseman. And third, Casilla is a really good-fielding shortstop. I think our middle infield is set.
The fact that the Rowand rumor is still alive tells me the Twins don’t think Pridie is ready to start in CF. If he’s not ready to play CF at the major league level, why did we trade for him? I would rather have had Iwamura, and solved our 3B problem. And no, Nick Punto should not be a starter at 3rd, 2nd, or anywhere else. he’s a utility infielder.
Actually, I forgot about Kubel because I had him penciled in as starting at DH; I’m not sure that there’s any room at all for Monroe.
Just think of our lineup if the Twins could have kept Torii. How about this? The left side of the infield probably wouldn’t be great, but what if the Twins end up putting Young in RF and get Rowand in CF.
Lineup (before Santana trade)
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Young RF
Morneau 1B
Rowand CF
Cuddyer 3B
Kubel DH
Monroe LF
Harris SS
I know the thought of Cuddyer at 3B probably scares everyone. But offensively that’s a pretty good lineup.
Young replaces Hunter in the lineup and could possibly top his production from last year. That isn’t really a stretch. There really isn’t much to argue there.
“Not really. Harris is a marked improvement offensively over Bartlett. So they have added offense, even if Punto is at shortstop and Harris at second”
Seriously! Stop putting Punto back into our lineup! If we have to have .210 hitter at SS next year, let it be Casilla, so we can at least tell ourselves it’s going to get better.
DeeJay, Don’t forget Liriano, he won’t be going anywhere as well (and hopefully comes back better than before!)
Dan, you’re right. This is a great trade. The Twins were a sinking ship after the Hunter loss.
Now they’re even to where they were at the end of the season.
I understand your argument, Reed, but you have to take these on a case by case basis. Chances are Young will improve on his rookie numbers. Bartlett will never improve on his 2006 season. Mauer will probably never hit .370 and may never get to .340 either but I think you would be more confident to project that Mauer will put up more characteristic numbers over the course of several seasons as he matures over a player like Bartlett. Sometimes it is a crapshoot…and sometimes you can be a little more confident in predicting a future progression/maturation process.
steve
Liriano may not be ready until june.
Liriano is on track to begin spring training with the squad.
Joe Nathan, Busher, for Cody Ransom 3b Astros AAA
Santana to the Red Sox for Ellsbury, Buckholtz, and Dervin Hansack (sp)
He’ll be in spring training but tommy john elbows are a tricky thing to heal.
Nathan to Brewers for Yovanni Gallardo and two minor leaguers.
Come on people, this trade is great! Yeah, I’m sure that everyone who is crying about losing Morlan. He might be a great prospect, but who actually knew about the kid until an hour ago? I consider myself a good Twins fan, but AA prospects are not necessarily on my radar screen. You know, because following the beat of the New Britian RockCats isn’t the most important thing in life.
Twins win the wild card this year, regardless of the Santana/Nathan outcome.
Nathan and Rincon for Braun in Milwaukee? Arguably the best closer and another veteran reliever (Brewers need pen help) for the Rookie of the Year? OK, your right. I’m smoking crack.
Agree DJ, lets hope he’s ready to break the club when April hits!
From reading Delmon Young’s comments about the trade, he sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders. He’s a competitor.
I love this trade. We need offense. We got it. We gave up Garza to get it. Garza may indeed win 20 games some day. But not in 2008. Not even in 2009 without offense. The better offense the Twins got will lead to at least as many more wins for the remaining starters as the 11 or 12 games Garza might have won next year. Even the great Santana could only win 15 games with the 2007 offense.
I would put Bartlett in about the same class as a Jeff Reboulet or Denny Hocking at short. Not even as good as Guzman. Certainly no Gagne. They actually had to send him to AAA last year because be didn’t have “leadership”.
Harris can play short and third, which by the way, is a huge hole in the infield. His 12 homers last year would have been fourth on the Twins.
Hey, I hated it when they let Ron Washington go in 1987. I thought they were making a big mistake. He was one of my favorite players.
Young is a good player right now. Garza might be.
Pridie is closer to a Major League salary than Morlan by a year or two. And, it’s more offense. And, while it is key to have a great bullpen, top relief pitchers always have been, and always will be the guys that don’t make it as starters.
If Braun was a gold-glove fielder I’d trade Santana straight up (maybe a couple minor pieces as well). This guy is amazing. Too bad he has brick hands over at third.
Michael, I agree it could happen-and I’d sure like to watch Young explode into a great hitter, but I think it makes more sense to expect similar average and less power (he had 11 total homers in ‘06, 13 in ‘07). So it’s a little unrealistic to expect him to pick up the slack for a player like Torii. It really isn’t a fair comparison with them being at such different points in their careers. And he doesn’t have to do it alone. He sure will help, but I don’t think you can expect losing Hunter/ gaining Young to be an improvement for ‘08. Maybe ‘09 or ‘10.
Dang, I’ve had the wrong address for my website all this time. I’ll try to get some comments up before leaving for my marathon and hitting the Vegas poker tables. I’m sure Gleeman will have something up soon.
It’s true that Casilla can play SS while Harris mans 2B, but that assumes Casilla is ready for the bigs. He didn’t show he was ready this past year. So right now it’s Harris, or we open up with Punto at SS. IOW, we’re still down a SS, as far as we know.
I think it will be interesting to see what sorts of numbers Young will put up with Morneau batting behind him. He will no doubt see better pitches there instead of the 6 or 7 hole he was slotted at for most of the year in TB. Cuddyer had a monster year hitting 4th in front of Morneau in 06!
I’ve been reading posts all day. My two cents.
Anyone who thinks Young isn’t an upgrade over Hunter doesn’t know squatall about baseball. Hunter is coming off his career year. How many years did it take for him to achieve it? 10 years!!!! Young is 22!! He’s played the RedSox 19 times, Yanks 19 times, Balt 19 times and Toronto 19 times. The toughest division in baseball. The kid has been through the fire and performed VERY well. With all kinds of tools and upside!!
Yes we had to give up Garza. With def potential to be a 20 game winner. But I have a lot more confidence in the Twins Farm System to produce 20 game winners than a hitter like Young.
Bartlett is a servicable SS. NOTHING more. Don’t get your panties in a bunch about losing him. Morlan has upside as well (wasn’t Nathan a relief pitcher in San Fran?). I wish we could of traded Rincon or a PTBNL but it didn’t happen.
I’m excited to see what the rest of the offseason brings. Don’t settle on Santana!!!!
Bon Dia!
5th, 6th and 7th I meant to say. Who was protecting him there?
First, for anyone sad about about losing Morlan, do a little research…find the the top 20 rated minor league relievers from 5 years ago (try Baseball America) and see how many of them ever became even moderately useful major leagues.
Second, for Big Jon and other nostalgics…Bartlett is a better SS than Gagne ever was. The kid in me, who grew up watching Gagne, totally disagrees with that idea, but the rational adult part of me knows that Bartlett was better than Gagne or any other Twins SS I can remember (Meares, Guzman, etc.). Not that that says much. Even so, I think giving up on him was perfectly justifiable. Go Delmon!
that should be a great row of hitters:
Mauer
Young
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
but, in theory, last years 3-7 hitters looked formidable. Almost the same guys. I just hope they get on a roll and can feed off each others’ success rather than take turns struggling. They’ll have a chance to be really exciting again!
I’d prefer for this to be the 2-6 section of the lineup, though.
Good move. Kind of scary giving up potential in Garza but as of now, he is just that. Any pitcher bandied about in the Santana talks will be better in the short term. This team just has to add talent on offense and they did thatwith both young and Harris. Not to metioned some much needed flexibility.
Just a Thought, what if Harris becomes our starting shortstop and has a breakout season next year… maybe like 15-20 homers and 75-80 rbi’s batted in.. maybe something like J.J Hardy did this past year for Milwaukee than it would be an upgrade also at short from Barlett….
This is all just a thought and who knows, maybe twins have a deal maybe to get a better shortstop… I am just saying this because I wasn’t that impressed with barlett
Santana for Ellsbury, Bucholtz, B. Moss, and another minor league prospect
Nathan (plus something?) for Garrett Atkins and minor leaguer or bullpen arm (Fuentes)
Ellsbury CF
Mauer C
Young LF
Morneau 1B
Atkins 3B
Cuddyer RF
Kubel DH
Harris 2B
Punto/Casilla SS
Liriano
Baker
Slowey
Bucholtz
Bonser
Come on B - Gagne is far superior to what Bartlett bring. Gagne had range AND could throw over to first and not boot the ball. Gagne was above average at SS, not a great hitter…but this was a time where shortstops were not hitting 30+ homers.
Yeah…Todd Van Poppel had LOADS of potential as well. Paul Wilson, Bill Pulsipher…the list goes on and on and on.
Gagne was, at best, just an average defender during his years with the Twins. He didn’t make a lot of errors, but he neve had good range. This is a myth among Twins fans because he was associated with the two World Series and was a genuinely likeable player (a gamer!). Bartlett in contrast may have made some errors, but had genuinely above average range. Any of the range-based defensive statistics show this pretty clearly.
And Bartlett is quite a bit better than Gagne offensively… which does matter. So even if we call them even on defense, Bartlett still comes out ahead. To be clear, I’m not saying Bartlett was great…just that Gagne tends to be overrated by Twins fans and Bartlett remains strangely underrated by almost everyone.
B, Michael, a quick stat check: Gagne had 18 errors 4 times. One year with 26. A .254 batting average. But hit 36 homeruns between 1986-88. Hit .280, .272, .265, .236…
Bartlett only has 3 seasons to compare to Gag’s 10 with the Twins.
I kick the tires on Colon. See what Cubs are asking for Prior. I take a look at Blalock. I also see if Andrew Jones and his #$^%$T%$ agent come back to earth. I would offer a two year 30 million dollar contract. Helps Jones reestablish his market value which should mean a very motivated player.
Now that Garzas gone and Santana is out the door, it does limit our options as far as trading away pitching talent. But still many options out there. I would even reopen talks with Silva. 3 year 30 million, we can trade him when our youngsters arrive. A 200 inning workhorse on a young staff is a godsend.
1)Slowey and Boof, etc. to FL for Cabrera, etc.
and
2) Santana to LA for Cabrera and Matthews.
Plus Gagne was one-half of “The High Flyers”
Anytime you can trade a #3 starter for a middle of the lineup, 5 tool player you should do it. The AA reliever for a AAA outfielder and the shortstops are a wash, but Young can win games every day. Garza (and I loved Garza) can only win games every 5 days. This is a good deal for the Twins.
OK, Big Jon, if you just consider the bulk of their work then Gagne provided more value to the Twins than Bartlett (about 8 years versus about 2.5). I thought the issue, though, was who was a better shortstop. Bartlett is pretty clearly a better hitter than Gagne ever was, even when you consider the difference in eras. So in order to think Gagne is better overall you have to believe he was a much better defender, which just isn’t true. Even if you just want to focus on errors, which I would argue isn’t wise, Gagne had 137 in about 998 AdjGP with the Twins, while Bartlett had 48 in 300.9. If you prorate Gagne’s to the number of games Bartlett played you have about 41 errors. So do you really think 7 errors makes much of a difference? Really? And if you consider range then Bartlett beats Gagne easily. Gagne was only above average in range for three of his seasons with the Twins (87, 91, and 92). In several others he was substantially below average. Bartlett, while not outstanding, was significantly above average during his tenure with the Twins. Bartlett really was better.
Now keep trading wild Bill…
Trade Nathan for Corey Hart, 3B and sp Vargas!
Than Mets send Santana for Reyes, Gomez,
Mildredge,Maine and Pelfrey.
Sign Piazza and Sosa for DH and back up catcher and of.
Carl will piss in his pants if done!
As Twins payroll of 72 mil would drop to 29 mil! 43 mil cut in Hunters 15 mil, Nathan, 1o mil and Santana 18 mil!
This means we can acquire some big names down the line for the new opening of WHEATIES PARK in 2010!
Bill Smith is a genius and has balls!
pLUS WE ADD A THIRD BASEMAN WITH POWER AND THE BEST SS IN THE MAJORS AND A BETTER OF. ALSO HARRIS IS BETTER THAN BARTLETT AT SS OR SECOND AND HAS MORE POWER!
ITS A A EARLY CHRISTMAS GIFT FOR US FANS!
KP, who says Garza is a #3? And who says Delmon is a middle of the lineup guy? I don’t mean to be rude, but applying these labels to a player doesn’t make it so and it doesn’t provide any new evidence to the discussion. Similarly, your last point about Garza “can only win games every 5 days” is silly. By that logic we could trade Johan for Ty Wiggington and make out like bandits. After all, Santana “can only win games every 5 days.” Sorry to pick on you, but these discussions are more useful and interesting when people focus on making more substantive arguments.
Alright B, but one thing to keep in mind is that I am making my comment from my perception of Gagne as and all around player. I didn’t get to watch the Twins on TV - I listened to every game on the Radio. Gagne was a clutch player, who made big plays when the team needed them and had timely hits - probably from the extra power he had. You can read stats such as number of errors, but how were those errors committed? Where they boots or were they throws from the hole? Were they deep in the hole? Or were they throws to first while turning a double play (a much harder throw).
Also, Gag’s never got to play a game on Field Turf. He played every home game on that crazy old Astro Turf. Remember the original turf that was more like a wrestling mat because it had the padding underneath for football? Only comitting 18 errors on that crap is Ozzie Smith stuff.
On the other hand, Gagne made all of his throws to first to Kent Hrbek, which probably cut down on the error total.
So who knows?
TWINS TRADE NATHAN TO MILWAUKEE FOR
VARGAS AND BRAUN THE POWER HITTING 3b!i MEANT TO SAY.
Gagne did have more power than Bartlett and I’d love to believe that Gagne was more clutch. I LOVED Gagne growing up, but I was about 15 when he was traded so it’s hard to make a straight comparison. Even with the clutch-ness and the special difficulty of the old turf…does that really make that much of a difference? Gagne’s career fielding % (.972) is only a hair better than Bartlett’s (.967) and Barlett’s Range Factor (4.46) is better than Gagne’s (4.24). So let’s be charitable and say that they were about equal fielders, Bartlett with more range and Gagne with the more sure hands and throws. That still leaves Bartlett’s better offensive skills. I just can’t see how Gagne was better. Any argument for Gagne just comes down to the fact that he was on two World Series champs and Bartlett wasn’t. That’s silly, though. Placing the credit for a team’s success on a single player (not even a star player!) is foolish.
going to the tampa bay blogs out of over 100 posts only 2 were positive. the rest have flamed the rays for trading a annual all star caliber player and the plan to build a team around young as the rays talked about since their season ended….espn reports twins got the best of the deal….all of these twins fans over the past year critizing for no trades and no movement and now these myopic twins fans are critical about a trade that every national baseball sports writers are saying the twins have gotten the better deal…..relax this is just a tremor and first wave - the big one is coming i love the idea of possibilites…..boston, yanks, and mets trade for santana gives some explosive refreshing ideas…..i like what boston can offer - ellsbury surrounded by young and cuddyer and yukolas at 3rd…..and lester or bucholtz man i like that…..cano is off the yankees trade block - so i find yanks the last choice - santana for reyes and company at short with harris playing second and then sign roland as free agent - could you imagine that line up - reyes ss, mauer c, young lf, morneau 1b, roland cf, cuddyer rf, kubel dh, harris 3b, castilla 2b???? rotation of liarino, slowey, baker, boof and ????? pen includes neshek, crain, rincon and nathan???? maybe have the mets throw in with reyes instead of prospects 2or 3 pitcher???? i like where this could go…..
PEOPLE CANO AND CHAMBERLIN ARE UNTOUCHABLE - THEY ARE NOT ON THE MARKET - HANK STEINBRENNER IN DAILY NEWS
How the hell did the Angels get so stocked with talent. I’m telling you if they can land Cabrera while only give up one of Kendrick and Wood in the package, this club is going to be phenomenal. I’ll tell you right now they will be better than the Red Sox because they have a ton more depth even with trading 3 or 4 guys to the Marlins. Their middle of the order is equal and younger than the Red Sox. Two elite guys (Cabrera & Guerrero compared to Ortiz & Ramierez) Also the other two are better in Anderson and Torii than Lowell and Drew. More depth in the rotation even though no great ace like Beckett. Closers are a wash because they have the best two in baseball. If the Yankees fail to get Johan this is your World Series next year (ala New England & Indy )
Also what Hank told the media: A-Rod would not be re-signed if he opted out. How’d that work out?
Granted, he could stick to his guns here, but it’s certainly possible he could flip his view as well.
Wait what did Steinbrenner say? WE WILL NOT RE-SIGN RODRIGUEZ IF HE OPTS OUT, PERIOD!! That lasted for what like 2 weeks. Chamberlain and Cano is fair game for Santana, but I don’t even want Joba the hut I want Hughes. No one is untouchable in all of pro sports except maybe Manning,Brady,Crosby,James,Pujols
Man the AL is going to be one freaking competative league next year. Boston, Anaheim, Detroit, New York, and Cleveland are all better than any team in the NL. I would even argue that the Mariner and Twins are better than any NL teams other than the Mets. 8 of the 10 best teams in baseball are probably in the AL.
I agree, I would rather have Hughes than Chamberlain, though I certainly wouldn’t complain about getting Joba.
Trade Santana to Mets for Reyes and a pitching prospect…. Trade Nathan for a MLB third Basemen… Atkins, or package a deal with Texas and get Blalock or Kinsler, hope Kinsler along with prospect for Nathan and move Crain to Closer and than sign Rowand!
No order here…
C. Mauer
1b. Morneau
2b. Kinsler
SS. Reyes
3b. Buscher or maybe sign Pedro Feliz
Lf. Young
Cf. Rowand
Rf.Cuddyer
DH. Kubel/Monroe(if he signs for less money with us)
Bench… Punto, Casilla, Harris, Tyner,
S.R. (Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Bonser, Blackburn, maybe Guerrier… the last 3 are iffy
This isnt a bad team… maybe sign a vetern pitcher to a 1 or 2 year deal
Or if Mets won’t give up Reyes but will give Wright away for a deal… Santana, Buscher and a prospect for Wright…
3b.. Wright
Ss. Harris/casilla
2nd..punto or get another player there…
About Morlan:
I’ve been following him since he was drafted. Last year was his first above-average year as a minor leaguer, he had a lot of arm injury issues before that. It’s much, much easier to succeed as a reliever in the minors than as a starter because hitters only see you once a game and there is not much advance scouting when compared to the majors. We have a TON of arms with plus potential in the minors right now, at all levels, we have ZERO above average hitting prospects, let alone a guy like Delmon Young. While we may have given up a future MLB reliever, I doubt he will be a lights-out guy like Liriano, and our bullpen is already stocked with young arms. I think he was the hold-up in the deal, the final piece the Rays needed before they pulled the trigger. I think it’ll be a good deal for both sides. It’s nice to see 2 small market teams make each other better like this.
Rick Anderson is a frickin genius and the best pitching coach in the league bar none. If he didn’t think Garza would make it, (which appears to be the case), I trust his judgement. Watching Garza, a couple of things bothered me.
1. His fastball is very straight (and thus hittable)
2. He has no off-speed pitch whatsoever.
He’s got a nice slider (when he throws it), but I think good teams will be able to hit him around pretty good. He only throws a tiny bit harder than Boof Bonser, but he doesn’t have the wicked curve or changeup Boof has. All in all he’s not that much better of a prospect. His value is still high from his torrid run through the minors in 2006. Hitters like Delmon Young don’t come available too often. It seems every team has that one young arm they deem “untouchable”, but few have or are willing to part with a prized young bat.
One thing concerning me with young is only 13 homers in 645 at bats, but then again he is only 22. It took Torii and Kirby 3-4 years to really add power to their game. I think it will come as he learns to recognize pitches better. When he reaches his potential, he and Morneau could form a duo as potent as Manny and Big Papi in Boston. Having his arm in left and Cuddyer in right should keep alot of runners stranded at third this year (and help erase the nightmares of noodle-armed throws by Jacque Jones and Lew Ford).
Jason Bartlett for Brendan Harris….blah
I liked Bartlett’s sudden ability to steal bases last year, everywhere else he’s below average. No power, doesn’t drive the ball into the gaps, error-prone with decent range. Harris has more pop, less range, is a more consistent fielder. One year older. Sounds close to a wash to me. Now put Harris at second, and he looks much better. If this is a prelude to a Santana deal where Jose Reyes comes here, this is a great move because Harris fits perfectly at second. But if they try to play him at third I will throw up in my mouth seeing another utility infielder at 3rd for the Twins.
And we will have Young for 5 years before he hits free agency. Great trade, I hate to give up a guy with Garza’s potential, but you have to give something in order to gain. I think we sold Garza and Morlan high, and are buying Delmon Young low. He is 2 years younger than Garza, and will play every day instead of every fifth day. If we add a David Wright or Reyes, or even a Matt Kemp our offense should mash next year. Kubel will obviously be full-time DH now, given his severely limited range in left.
One aspect of this trade not many are noticing is that now we don’t HAVE to trade Santana to fix our offensive woes. We can re-sign him, sign a FA 3B or CF, and be competetive THIS year. This also strengthens our bargaining position in a Santana trade, which makes it smart to do this trade FIRST.
The 2-6 positions in our lineup should be set now (barring adding Matt Kemp or David Wright):
c Mauer
LF Young
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel
That’s pretty solid.
Matt, you are correct… We Don’t have to trade Santana now, we can pick up a CF and 3b through Free Agency. I looked at Pedro Feliz, batting average isn’t the best .253 but he knocked in 20 homers and 72 rbi’s, better than any twins 3rd basemen… Rowand or Crisp wouldn’t be bad pickups for the twins… -I still believe you could get a decent package for Nathan, clearly after Cordero sigened his massive deal and same with Rivera, We wont be able to afford Nathan so trade him for a position player and a prospect… I wonder if Texas would include Micheal Young in a deal for Nathan but I could more see Kinsler or blalock, hope Kinsler being part of a deal for Nathan!
If I was Bill Smith, I would get in touch with the Rangers about a deal for Nathan.. Rangers need a closer BAD! there closer had 12 saves last year! Twins I would hope could pull a deal for Kinsler or Blalock or even Young -(maybe)
Rowand will be too expensive for what he brings. Crisp doesn’t excite me much. Feliz is supposed to have a nice glove, so that could be a good fit.
Young is the Rangers’ franchise player, they don’t deal him for less than Santana, same can probably be said for Kinsler.
Blalock would be interesting, if we could get him and a prospect for Nathan.
I think Nathan’s value will stay strong right up to the trading deadline, so we have no hurry to move him, whereas with Santana his value drops every day after the start of the season.
I love the fact that we brought in a bat like Delmon Young, we needed it!
Sure Garza is good and will probably have a good career, but you have to give up something to get something.
Terry Ryan left tremendous pitching depth in our farm system and it’s about time we used some of it to bring in some offense. I mean will Garza really be missed in the midst of Liriano, Bonser, Slowey, Baker, Perkins, Blackburn & the prospect or prospects we get for Santana? No. We don’t have the bats in our farm system so we traded on arm to get one. It was the right move and I can’t wait to see Delmon Young suit up in Twins gear.
The Twins could send Nathan to the Brewers for Corey Hart. Milwaukee needs a closer now that Cordero is gone and Hart, a fast CF with a live bat, would start in CF. That would give the Twins an OF of Hart in center flanked by Cuddyer and Young. Nice.
It would be thrilling to see twins get Reyes and another player to be name for Santana but please, please , please don’t make any deals to damn Yankees cuz’ they have had enough titles , division titles and public attention so why satisfy their needs while they are greedy. God I hate those yankees and steinbrenners !
good trade. now package up Nathan and Rinconand trade for someone like Cory Hart or Ty wiggington and use the money saved on their saleries and sign Santana or hold a kings ransom for him, and tell other clubs not to even call unless they are willing to gggive up whoever and how many players the Twins want. If nobody wants him at that price keep him and the Twins still have a very good team.
I agree Mike…trading Santana and/or Nathan to a NL team would at least keep them away from the Yankees and Red Sox. On the other hand, there’s no way either NY or Boston wants to see the other get Johan so one may make an offer that the Twins couldn’t turn down.
Rowand will be too expensive for what he brings.
ANYTHING Rowand brings will be better than what the Twins currently have in-house for CF.
And honestly, if they were going to offer Torii 15 per, 13 per to Rowand comparred to what Hunter actually got.
…….
On a side not, didn’t get a chance to read the article, but I gotta love how the PiPress broadcast this trade. The headline in today’s sports section?
“The Breakup of the Twins”
Nevermind that they aquired a quality bat. Nevermind that they’ll easily replace Garza in whatever trade they make for Johan. Nope, the Twins are crumbling…
Reyes and Wright are off the table for the Mets according to ESPN, and the USA TODAY. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t change, but right now that puts the mets out of the market.
I want to see Nathan go to the Astros for Cody Ransom. I have him ranked as the 3rd best 3rd baseman in the minors last year… I don’t know where he fit overall, but I love the fact that he walked 80 times, and hit 25 homers. Longoria and LaRoche were the two I have ahead of him.
Santana to the Red Sox for Ellsbury, Buckholtz, and Moss would be great. However if they want to throw in Crisp, I would seriously demand Lester as well. Crisp is a bum! But to get Lester and Buckholtz would put this pitching staff way ahead of where it was last year.
Lester, Baker, Liriano, Buckholtz, Ole Chubby Boof/Slowey. That would be a great young rotation.
I would seriously look at Hank Blaylock as well. HE can’t be that expensive in a trade coming off of a big injury, and the Rangers having an adequate backup for him. Going after their shortstop however I think is thinking richer than the Twins are willing to go. That guy’s a stud, and even as screwed up as Texas is… I don’t see it happening.
I’m not sold on the Twins getting rid of Monroe. I don’t think a 1 year deal would be a bad idea
Monroe could cover center IF the Twins can’t find anybody via trade or Free Agency this offseason. But I dunno how long they have to offer him a deal before he gets to walk.
If they end up signing Monroe to a year or two at a few mil each it may be a sign that Boston will not budge on Ellsbury to any extent.
That third starting outfielder would allow Kubel to move to DH full time and keep his knees healthy. I like what I saw towards the end of the season, and would hate for him to get hurt again.
So, with Monroe and Rowand as potential CFers, and Harris taking over for Bartlett, what kind of lineup are we looking at. Does Rowand bat 6th with Young in the cleanup spot? Is Harris going to be batting second or is Kubel going to hold onto that spot and Harris will slot in alongside Buscher and Monroe at he bottom?
Casilla
Harris/Kubel
Mauer
Young
Cuddyer
Kubel/Harris
Monroe
Buscher
??
I would seriously look at Hank Blaylock as well.
Considering this trade, I dunno if that’s the kind of player the Twins are looking at anymore. I think they’d want a young 3rd baseman OR a guy who’s not coming off injury…
TT, most thought there was a hole at 2B with the Punto/Casilla thing.
Now that’s been transferred to SS.
romer -
I don’t think Punto is a hole at ss. With decent offense from the rest of the lineup you can absorb weak offense for good defense at shortstop and center field. Punto still has to hit better than last year, but he seemed to be doing that at toward the end. And the Twins have Plouffe almost ready there as well.
Craig Monroe will not be the Twins center fielder next year. O percent chance of that happening. He’s a left fielder and the only way he’s on the team is if he agrees to a pay cut (he should because he won’t get what the Twins are offering as a free agent). Also, does anyone actually think the Twins are going to get Aaron Rowand. We already said no to expensive and aging center fielders. They want to trade for a younger or less expensive one.
Bartlett in contrast may have made some errors, but had genuinely above average range. Any of the range-based defensive statistics show this pretty clearly.
The “range-based” statistics are mostly hokum. They measure the pitching staff as much as they do the fielders. Of course Bartlett’s “range factor” is high when Silva’s got guys pounding ground balls all day long.
If Punto hits .260 he’s not the bad because he walks. .260 is pretty much the average between last year and the year before. I would be fine with him playing (if he does that), but would also look for somebody else. There is no way they can let him play 130 games or so again if he has a season like last year. Rob Neyer on ESPN called it one of the 4 worst hitting seasons in the last thirty years. That’s a lot of years and a lot of bad players. Punto wasn’t just bad, he was historically bad.
I like this trade because we get an everyday player whose ceiling is perennial all star. It’s not like we traded Nathan, Bonser, and Liriano for Pierzinski. Garza and Morlan have high potential and Bartlett has hit his ceiling — he’s decent all around. But this is about getting arguably one of the best five tool prospects in the game. Scouts have been talking about him since before he was a teenager. If healthy — physically and mentally — he might even exceed Torii’s production (with the Twins) this year. I would be disappointed if he didn’t improve his all around numbers.
You say range-based statistics are flawed, but so if fielding percentage. There really isn’t a good way to statistically evaluate fielders. That being said Bartlett is the better fielder. Much better athlete than Brendan Harris too.
If this shows anything, it’s that the Twins are going to try and maximize the young, controlled talent they can get in any trade. We have Young until at least 2012 (maybe 2013). That’s ridiculous.
They won’t trade for Blalock or any other player who’ll be in free agency soon. Ransom shouldn’t even be closely ranked to Longoria or LaRoche–he’s 28 years old. Those other two are WAY younger and therefore have a ton more value.
If anything big at 3B, I could see the Twins trying to get Brandon Wood from the Angels. Maybe him and Jered Weaver and a few other prospects for Santana.
I wouldn’t mind a trade with the Dodgers either, but it doesn’t sound like anything is going to get done. The Twins already turned down Billingsley and Kemp.
Whoever said Cody Ransom is the 3rd best 3b prospect in the minors needs to rethink the word prospect. He is 31 years old and a career minor leaguer.
The Twins trade with Tampa was a NET-LOSS for the Twins. They are still a worse team than last year. They gained a trouble making guy with a juvenile gang style attitude and gang tatoos on his arm. Gee, and they only had to give up one of the very best young pitching prospects in all of baseball. That really sends a strange message to the public. Also, Harris is sub-par to Bartlett and Pridie will never be worth what Morlan will be worth. How may more stupid trades is Smith going to make before the Twins gain a permanent place in the A.L. Central cellar? You have to be really ignorant about baseball and people in general to buy off on a foolish move by the Twins organization. Tampa Bay is laughing all the way to the bank.
Proper Name: Bryan Cody Ransom
Born: February 17, 1976
Mesa, AZ
Height: 6-2
Weight: 190 lbs.
Age: 31
so if the twins have an interest in rowand, why dont they have an interest in andruw jones?
or is jones in the same market as torii?
Forecasting a Nathan trade is the hardest. He might be the one guy that you go into the season with and field offers for at the trade deadline. After all everyone thinks they can get lucky with relievers at this time of year. But in July there are contending teams with obvious bullpen holes that need to be fixed if they want to make a serious run at the playoffs. Relief pitching is the one position that might actually get more value at the trade deadline. Besides if we are a good team next year (big if) Nathan will be needed.
This was an awesome deal for the Twins! They get a guy (Young) who is going to have better numbers next year at MN then Hunter will have in CA (hunter sucks). And I don’t know if anyone you got out of your mom’s basement and watched a twins game last year, Garza wasn’t exactly lighting things up.
At least we don’t have to watch bartlett kick the ball around the infield anymore!
Keep the deals coming Smith
jb
barlett led the league in errors as a SS.. harris brings a little more power.
garza is going to be a stud.. no doubt..
twins are loaded with pitching prospects, so who cares.. trade one..
same for morlan..
no one said anything about morlan until this trade.. now some people are crying about the trade. its absurd.. morlan comes in 2009 or 2010..
its the twins! we will have pitching
so if the twins have an interest in rowand, why dont they have an interest in andruw jones?
or is jones in the same market as torii?
Jones is coming off a bad season, but has Boras as an agent. Twins have had bad luck trying to negotiate a fair deal in that type of situation before (see Lohse, Kyle).
I just REALLY like the idea of Rowand in a Twins uniform. He may not be Torii Hunter, but from what I’ve seen and what I’ve heard from teammates he’s that kind of spark that some feel the Twins lost when Torii left.
Does anyone have a feeling that Johan trade is coming soon. I think that all of the speculation makes it seem like it is. But it is a very complex transaction. First the Twins need to figure out who is actually willing to give the Twins what they want. Then Santana has to waive his no trade clause and agree to an extension. I know the NY teams, LA teams and Boston will have no trouble with the money, but it’s still a large contract, with lots of details. This trade may take another more or longer to finish. I hope I’m wrong because I am super curious to see who I am going to be cheering for next year.
I meant a month or longer. Sorry.
The garza trade means the Twins have to SIGN JOHAN, or trade him for a Top line pitcher..
It’s been mentioned that Melky/hughes combo from the yanks.. Gotta figure thats the lead trade option for the twins right now.
Unless the sox entertain Ellsbury/Bucholtz..
So, if we assume that both the sox and yanks are offereing up a CF and a pitching prospect… one of these teams has to up the anty..
I meant a month or longer. Sorry.
I can’t see it happening before the meetings, but that’s only a week or so away.
The Twins probably have a number of offers on the table, one of which they’ve decided isn’t too shabby (which is why they pulled the trigger on the Rays deal)
However they’re going to take those and look around for a few weeks to see if anybody’s biting.
If the Garza/Young is any indication, the Twins probably have a number of things in the works that have some interesting dependencies.
This trade was only the beginning. Can anybody remember the last time the Twins made the first big “splash” trade in the offseason? I know Jones went to the Tigers and the Angels swapped Cabrera for Garland…but this deal just seems like the biggest move thus far.
Add Jones to my list of “interesting homecomings” in 08 by the way, Torii…Jones…Garza/Bartlett…likely Santana and Nathan.
That’ll put butts in the seats.
The garza trade means the Twins have to SIGN JOHAN, or trade him for a Top line pitcher..
The Twins would’ve have let Garza go if they didn’t already know that there was SOMEBODY coming in to replace him.
Whether that’s Johan himself or which ever young pitcher they get in exchange for him is still to be decided.
But I’m pretty sure they Twins alreayd know that if they wanted they could get Bucholz or Hughes at a moments notice. It’s just a matter of getting the right posistion player(s) and prospects to go with them.
would’ve
Should say “wouldn’t have”…I need to stop trying to write when I haven’t had my morning java.
T
if you had the choice of melky hughes
or ellsbury bucholtz
who would you pick??
It’s not morning here in Ireland. Please wake up for my sake. I’ve already had three cups of terrible coffee. Go Billy Smith.
if you had the choice of melky hughes
or ellsbury bucholtz
who would you pick??
To be honest I’m not sure. I can’t stand the amount of Sox/Yanks talk during the season…so usually don’t seek out MORE.
I like what I saw of Ellsbury towards the end of the season, and the Twins obviously seem very high on him.
I’d still love to see them get Cano. But that’s my offseason pipe dream (everybody’s allowed one)
Hughes is better than Buchholz. Ellsbury is better than Melky and is a leadoff hitter. That’s tough. I tend to lean to the Yankees trade just because I think they will stick in two more players that are better than the two players the Red Sox will throw in. The Yankees seem to be more desperate for a number one pitcher so I think they will enhance the package with more prospects.
Yeasterday morning, the Twins were set at SS, C, 1B and RF. Today they are set at LF, C, 1B, and RF. However, they replaced their average SS with the a stud who could/should put up great numbers.
So after much thought, despite the fact that I am a huge Garza fan, I now think that this was a good trade for the team.
However the team now has holes to fill at CF, 2B, SS, and 3B. For a team that has been built on defence, it does not bold well that they do not have an established starters at the four most important defensive positions on the field.
if you had the choice of melky hughes
or ellsbury bucholtz
who would you pick??
I actually think the question will be:
Hughes/Melky or
Lester/Ellsbury
Who would you pick?
Hard to pick still. But I like Hughes. Potential top end starter to replace Santana, which is what Garza was supposed to do.
I see the USA today is saying that Carl Pohlad is the richest owner in baseball with a new taxpayer stadium, but doesnt spend like it. even the royals spend more.
By the way, I agree with what Reusse says. Of course the Mets will say Wright and Reyes are off the table. And with Wright it is true. But Reyes is still on the table.
However the team now has holes to fill at CF, 2B, SS, and 3B.
Harris will be fine at SS. Upgrades at CF and 3B can offset Casilla/Punto at 2B.
I agree with others that Hughes is the starting pitcher the Twins should go after. That being said it depends on what else the Yankees are going to offer. Austin Jackson’s name has been thrown around a lot. It seems like scouts are kind of all over the board on this kid. He is a great athlete but hasn’t quite learned how to play the game. He looks like he wouldn’t be a serious player in the majors until at least 2010.
Kevin
Enough with the spending. We are talking about trades today. You can bash the Pohlads the whole month of January if you want. What do you think of the trade made and the moves to come?
I see the USA today is saying that Carl Pohlad is the richest owner in baseball with a new taxpayer stadium, but doesnt spend like it. even the royals spend more.
You’re too late Kevin. BC posted the actual quote last night.
Good try though.
What do you think of the trade made and the moves to come?
I expect Kevin to be in the same camp as the other doomsayers. That is:
“It doesn’t matter because the Twins won’t sign Young/Morneau/Mauer/Cuddyer/my cat to a long term contract when they get good anyway.”
They’ll then yell something about the sky falling (still) and run off to their doomsday shelters to play more fantasy baseball. Because they enjoy how much easier it is to make decisions for somebody when it’s not your money to worry about.
Finally the clock struck three. Ebeneezer Pohlad lay huddled in his bed, blankets pulled tightly over him with his bony hands as he awaited the promised Ghost of Baseball future. What joy would he bring?
Finally he came, dressed in black, like an umpire. Without speaking, the spirit beckoned him to come with him, and off they floated.
THere it was! April 1st, 2010, opening day at the brand new “Pohlad Park at The Garbarge Burner, as brought to you by the taxpayers of hennepin county”. What a grand day it would be. However, few were there. The opening day opponenet Yankees would be starting their two time defending Cy Young Award and MVP winner Johan Santana, against the Twins, having the worst record in baseball the last two years.
The spirit led Ebeneezer to the spanking new owners suite. But no one was there either. Except Billy Smith with rumbled shirt, belly hanging over his belt, and tie undone.
Where am I spirt?, Ebeneezer beckoned. Will I not be at the opening of my own,er, the countys stadium? No, the spirit shook his head, then led Ebeneezer over the garbarge burner, and down to Lakewood Cemetary where a small group huddled around a grave site, Jerry Bell, Bud Selig, Sid Hartman.
Not even his Boston College educated grandson who had eloquently defended him in the Star and sickle a few years before when Ebeneezer was threatening to contract the team. he was on spring break in aruba.
No, spirit, no, is it too late?
If you had the choice of melky hughes
or ellsbury bucholtz
who would you pick??
Hughes/Melky or
Lester/Ellsbury
I agree, the second group of players sound more likely. However, What if Trader Bill decides that none of the offers are acceptable, and tries again to tie up Santana to an extension?
How would people feel about Santana staying a Twin, leaving a potential rotation of
Santana
Baker
Bonser
Smalley
Perkins
I know, Lariano is slated to return, but come on, can we really depend on him as a starter?
Truth is, Santana probably won’t get traded unless a SOLID deal comes thru, and I kinda doubt that one will. We need several players for Santana, and I just don’t see it happening.
If it doesn’t happen before spring training, expect the Twins to make one final push for an extension. Doubt that will work though, either.
Endgame, Santana pitches for us for the season, doing his farewell tour just like Hunter did last year. Then, he goes to the highest bidder after we win the World Series with Young hitting a grand slam to win it for us in game 7 
How about that for a different ending?
The Twins could trade Punto and a bag of stale chips for A-Rod (and get the Yankees to cover his salary) and some people would complain because we ruined the post-game spread.
If Terry Ryan was still GM would we be talking about this trade?
I heard Reusse and the Morning guy from 1500 (a Mets fan) say that they both read comments from Omar Manya late last night saying that he would now consider Reyes as part of a deal for Santana.
I looked for this for a little while this morning, can anyone find this?
This could go down as one of the worst trades in Twins history. Garza will be a top-of-the-rotation starter for 12-15 years, Bartlett’s a capable shortstop with a pretty good bat and Morlan looks like he’ll eventually be a dominating late-inning reliever. In exchange, the Twins got an extremely talented problem child (if you’re capable of throwing a bat at an umpire, you’re capable of anything), another Nick Punto type middle infielder and a younger version of Jason Tyner. We paid too much. Yuck.
This certainly means that Santana is gone, probably to the Mets for Jose Reyes and Lasting Milledge (SP?). Unfortunately, the Mets don’t have a lot of great pitching prospects, at least none that are nearly major league ready. This means that the Twins will have to hope that Baker, Slowey and Perkins all have breakout years and that Boof discovers the outside corner (hint: it’s the black part). Otherwise, it could be a long couple of summers.
Am I the only person who got the sense that Gardenhire never liked either Garza or Bartlett? They must have been bad clubhouse guys or something.
Now that you’ve opened the flood gates, Mr. Smith, please trade Punto. I don’t care where he goes or what you get back, but if he’s a Twin next season, I think I’ll be sick.
Kevin says: November 29th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Have you ever considered writing thesaurus for a living? I’ve never seen somebody come up with so many different ways of saying the same thing.
Here, let me do this to save you time when you come to post again. Save the following in notepad and just pull it up every time you’re ready to write something.
I Kevin do not agree with the fact that taxpayers have helped to fund the stadium. As such, I now have it out for Carl Pohlad and the Twins, even though they are not the first business, nor the last, to accept public funding.
I would much rather have Ellesbury/Bucholtz… I think Melkey is a career middle of the road OF…
I would take Reyes/Gomez first though… throw something else in to get Pelfrey… pretty pie in the sky though…
I liked Garza but he reminds me of the young pitcher in Bull Durham, “Nuke LaLoosh” who thought he could make it by just throwing the heat! This trade for Young is a good trade and Wild Bill deserves a pat on the back for going after someone that can help the Twins for years. Not sure about Morlan being included instead of Rincon because I think Rincon has arm problems and probably couldn’t pass a physical right now. At any rate this isn’t the end of the dealing for the Twins - exciting stuff to watch it play out.
Garza will be a top-of-the-rotation starter for 12-15 years, Bartlett’s a capable shortstop with a pretty good bat and Morlan looks like he’ll eventually be a dominating late-inning reliever.
Delmon Young will be a middle of the lineup slugger, Harris is Barlett with slightly less range but better hands, and waiting for young guys to help “eventually” is what got the Twins into trouble in the first place.
Seriously, how many of you actually had heard of Morlan before the trade went down? Show of hands? Yeah, I thought so.
In exchange, the Twins got an extremely talented problem child (if you’re capable of throwing a bat at an umpire, you’re capable of anything)
Did you know at one point in his MLB career Hunter picked up a ball that hit him and threw it back at the pitcher? Funny nobody brought that up praising the Twins for letting this problem player go.
Stop looking for excuses. GBG said it best at 8:46 am. It doesn’t matter what the Twins do at this point, there are people who just like to hear themselves whine.
Why wasn’t Rincon dealt? He was initially part of this deal. It could mean one of three things.
1. We’re trading Nathan for sure and we need him to set up Neshak.
2. He’s going to Boston for Coco Crisp.
3. Rincon stinks and even the D-Rays don’t want him.
Which is it?
I didn’t read all the posts– so if someone else suggested this–I apologize!
Has anyone thought of the possibility of a three way trade?
Santana to Yankees
Boatload of prospects to Marlins
Miguel Cabrera to the Twins
Solve third base– and we could probably afford to use Pirdie or some one less stellar than Torii in center.
Its amazing that so many people complained that Terry Ryan sat on our pitching prospects too much, especially when confronted with a deal that would improve our offense.
NOW so many people think differently because an extra arm was needed to make this deal? Keep in mind that in recent years, it has been HITTING/POWER at the plate, not pitching, that this team has so desperately needed.
Despite what all the GMs on here might think, Morlan and Pridie are BOTH considered “long shots” (Rob Neyer’s wording) to have impacting careers in the majors.
Maybe I’ll eat my words and Morlan will be the next Joel Zumaya (and have a rash of injuries that started with Guitar Hero?), but if it took a future middle-of-the-rotation starter in Garza, and a player who has a CHANCE–by many accounts–to be a major league reliever to get a young power hitter who can play the field and hit for average…pull the trigger. Did we learn nothing from the Terry Ryan era?
Pitching talent is great, but when you’re swimming in pitching prospects and starving at the plate, make the deal happen.
I’m excited about this trade.
Me Too, Santana IS getting traded…I don’t think there’s a doubt about it. If he’s not going to agree to an extension, he won’t be a “lame duck” pitcher, either. I would like to think we learned our lesson after last year.
Why wasn’t Rincon dealt? He was initially part of this deal. It could mean one of three things.
Apparently there was a potential elbow injury that the Rays got hung up on. I imagine the Twins weren’t about to let Rincon of all things be a deal breaker.
In exchange, the Twins got an extremely talented problem child (if you’re capable of throwing a bat at an umpire, you’re capable of anything)
Man, and here I thought we just got rid ouf our problem child when we let Hunter go to the Angels. I seem to remember someone taking a swing at Justin. I also seem to remember someone throwing a ball at a pitcher in retaliation for getting hit by a pitch. I seem to recall a player calling out other players THRU the media, as opposed to talking to them, man to man.
Well, I guess we lose on problem, and gain another, right?
tk- cbssportsline’s baseball guy yesterday said his sources with the Rays said that there were medical questions with Rincon’s elbow. The Rays balked at the deal and asked for Morlan.
Anybody who lets the bat throwing at this point get in the way of Young’s potential is looking for a reason to not like him.
He apologized and served his suspension immediately. I don’t believe he’s done anything since.
This board is starting to remind of a political debate…where suddenly that DUI a guy got back in high school means he’s no longer a viable presidential candidate.
Me Too… Dont forget Garza’s pouting and defiance went south in this deal. It isnt like we gave up a model teamate…
Dont forget Garza’s pouting and defiance went south in this deal. It isnt like we gave up a model teamate…
But see, that’s who the Twins gave up. So obviously those can be overlooked.
But the guy they’re bringing in…oh he’d better be squeeky clean.
Solve third base– and we could probably afford to use Pirdie or some one less stellar than Torii in center.
If they pull a trade like that, you can kiss the CF problems goodbye, as at that point I’m certain they’d go get Rowand.
You don’t trade for a top of the line 3B and then let Rowand just hang around for some other team to grab.
The only hole left is 2B/SS at that point. Could we live with Casilla/Punto at 2nd if we have the other guys around them?
Despite what all the GMs on here might think, Morlan and Pridie are BOTH considered “long shots” (Rob Neyer’s wording) to have impacting careers in the majors.
Pridie is a long shot because he stinks, one fluke half-season doesn’t change that. Morlan is not a “long shot.” He’s a guy with great numbers and the stuff to back it up. He’s a bona fide prospect. No prospect is a sure thing. Morlan is still exponentially more likely to have a major league career than Pridie.
Ebeneezer awoke. It had been a dream! He whipped open the french doors overlooking the golf course. A young scribe, perhaps Lavelle E Neal III was chipping out of the sand trap.
Young man,there, Ebeneezer cried, do you know what day it is?
The scribe said, why, its to the first day of the winter baseball meetings.
Oh goodie, Ebeneezer cooed. He tossed his check book to the young man and said, go, go to the meetings and make sure you sign Santana. And while you are at it, get a solid third baseman, DH, and center fielder.
I will, said the man. and he did
2 1/2 years later, Ebeneezer presided over the opening of his stadium, with a full house of admiring fans around.
Baseball in Minnesota was saved because Ebeneezer found a heart, and learned there were things more important than hording money.
Me Too… Dont forget Garza’s pouting and defiance went south in this deal. It isnt like we gave up a model teamate…
Yeah, I agree. Garza should have been happy to make peanuts so that Ryan could give Sidney Ponson a cool million dollars. Good riddance.
Ryan, in re Reusse, I heard the same thing. He made it sound like Reyes could very well be back in the deal. Which in my mind, would make a trade with santana acceptable, although I still would prefer it was not done.
Wow Kevin, I think that you were the one that was dreaming.
Kubel Sucks. He’ll never be more than a .250 hitter with 10 HRs a year.
Tyner sucks. Just trade the whole team away and let’s start from scratch.
I am 100% for this trade. Who cares about Morlan, he was only AA and the Twins have plenty of pitching. We got rid of Bartlett, who was never going to be better than a below average offensive player, who couldn’t steal bases. His defense was crap too. Minus the Gold glove in center field, our lineup is better than it was last year already. Young is way better than Hunter ever was or will be with the bat. If the Twins are smart with Santana and Nathan, they can have a great young team with a solid 1-9 lineup.
As it stands now
Casilla SS
Mauer C
Young LF
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer RF
Kubel DH
Harris 2B
Pridie CF
Buscher/Punto 3B
So with the Santana trade you fill the hole Garza left and the one Santana is leaving in the rotation, and add a Center fielder, and then you get a thrid baseman for Nathan.
It is that simple. I am glad Smith is at least trying to show he has balls.
sounds like the redsox are leading the johan sweepstakes..
crisp, lowrie, lester, and masterson
Yeah, I agree. Garza should have been happy to make peanuts so that Ryan could give Sidney Ponson a cool million dollars.
No team is going to throw money at Garza’s feet when he’s had a half season of major league experience.
I am 100% for this trade. Who cares about Morlan, he was only AA and the Twins have plenty of pitching. We got rid of Bartlett, who was never going to be better than a below average offensive player, who couldn’t steal bases. His defense was crap too. Minus the Gold glove in center field, our lineup is better than it was last year already. Young is way better than Hunter ever was or will be with the bat.
Young was a much, much worse hitter than Hunter was last season, The Twins don’t have plenty of pitching, and Bartlett was already an above average offensive and defensive shortstop.
talk about trades? The rumors will change 50 times before a trade is finalized. Why the conjecture?
The big issue is as USA Today says, pohlads refusal to spend money
Having said that, I am pulling for the Mets or Dodgers. I tink they have more to offer, and I dont want to see Johan in the AL
As stated, Reyes may be on the table.
ok, i just posted that the it sounds like the sox are leading the johan sweepstakes..
with crisp, lester, lowrie and masterson..
i hate that trade..
we dont get ellsbury, we dont get bucholtz, we get a SS and 3 pitchers??
nope, cant do it..
tell the yanks we will take melky, hughes, and another prospect instead
No team is going to throw money at Garza’s feet when he’s had a half season of major league experience.
He would have made a bunch more than he was at AAA.
Billy Haywood
yeah i agree hunter had a better season..
keep in mind that young is 22 years old… hunter is 31???
hunters production at the age of 22 was 17 at bats, 0 hr 2 rbi.
ill take my chances with young..
bartlett is 27, harris is 27.. so its probably a wash…
but harris showed more power…
keep that in mind
The big issue is as USA Today says, pohlads refusal to spend money
How has that been an issue so far? The Twins weren’t getting Hunter…to panic and throw money at Johan to try and compensate is a BAD idea at this point.
The Twins are learning from their mistakes. The fact they traded Garza should be sign enough that they are changing their philosphy already.
So many posts indicate a strong desire to trade Nathan. Since the Twins opened their first game in 1961 there has been only one relief pitcher in my mind with the amazing ability to end games the way Nathan does: Bill Dailey from the 60’s (until he got hurt). Losing Nathan will open the door to many frustrating games and one run losses. There isn’t a quality relief pitcher on the Twins staff that would maintain the closer role. I don’t want to hear about Neshek, Crain, Perkins, Bonser, DePaula, or any other Triple A pitcher they have, Nathan is unique. Keep him please.
Fans that keep talking about A. Jones and Rowand. I think it will be a pretty tough sell for B. Smith to get them to come to Minnesota when it clearly looks like the team is going into rebuilding mode. I don’t understand why the Twins can’t bite the bullet for ‘09 with Nathan and then use those new ballpark revenues to keep him in a Twins uniform for the next 3 or 4 years? Look at all the money they’re going to save with Hunter, Silva, and likely Santana off the books.
each club recieves $25mil in online media properties and an additional $20mil for revenue sharing..
I agree with Robert Holan. With Gardy’s minimal pitch counts, the Twins need a deep bullpen. Letting Nathan go would weaken it considerably. Sign him now. You have already saved a lot of money and revenues will go up considerably in 2010.
In the proposed Boston trade. It’s two pitchers, a center fielder and a shortstop. Where’s the phenom though? Don’t do it Billy Smith.
mh says:
November 29th, 2007 at 9:20 am
with crisp, lester, lowrie and masterson..
i hate that trade..
we dont get ellsbury, we dont get bucholtz, we get a SS and 3 pitchers??
mh- Last time I checked Crisp played CF. So you would be getting a CF, SS, and 2 pitchers. That being said I am not a big fan of that trade either.
Billy Heywood, the difference between Torii Hunter and Delmon Young is about 10 years. Hunter had a better year, yes, but I definitely wouldn’t qualify it as a “much, much better year.” He’s 32 remember? He had a slightly better year (in all but the HR department), and is again 10 years older.
As I said before, besides what I’ve read here today, there is NOT a consensus belief that Morlan is going to be an impact pitcher. It simply doesn’t exist. And my point is that when you’re talking about minor league players–pitchers especially–I’ll defer to the experts on this one. You know, the guys paid to recognize the difference between a guy tearing up high-A minor league hitters and a guy who will win Cy Youngs, save 300 games, and strikeout 3000 at the major league level?
I think there’s few people off the street (or on the Star Tribune blog pages) who are qualified to know the difference between a top minor league talent = top major league talent and a top minor league talent = a top minor league talent.
Robert,
I agree, Nathan is the best closer this team has ever had, and will be almost impossible to equal. That being said, he is in the last year of a 6 million dollar a season deal. With Cordero who is not as good, and Rivera who is at the end of his career signing huge contracts, and BJ Ryan’s contract a couple of years ago. I really think that trading him now is the best possible thing the Twins can do. Keeping him, and letting him go for nothing isn’t going to do this team any good, and if he is the closer on a Santana, Silva and Garza-less pitching staff do you think he’s going to get a lot of save opportunities in 2008? This is going to save the team money, bring in quality prospects, or a proven bat, maybe a proven arm??? Letting him stay here during the year means he could get hurt, and we get nothing, or he has a bad season and we get nothing, or we trade him at the deadline, and might be able to get as much then as we could now, but not likely… a 2 month rental won’t mean as much as a full season, and a chance for that team to resign him when it comes to what we can get for him.
At this point in time we have to make up for a lot of Terry Ryan’s blunders, or budget restrictions in 2006-2007. It’s not going to be a pretty year in Minnesota. The Wolves are still pups, and the Vikings quarterback is finally looking like he could become an NFL backup… I mean he’s on progress to grow into Trent Dilfer (not exactly a ringing endorsement). The Twins are going to have a very young team by trading away Santana, Nathan, and hopefully Rincon. I’m not thrilled with trading Garza… I wanted to get rid of Ole Chubby Boof. He has a weight problem, an attitude problem, and a stamina problem…
So without Santana, Garza, or Silva… how valuable will Nathan be to this team as it’s closer vs. how valuable could he be as a trade chip?
Young
Hits: 186
2B: 38
HR: 13
RBI: 93
Total Bases: 263
SLG: .408
AVG: .288
Age: 22
Hunter
Hits: 172
2B: 45
HR: 28
RBI: 107
Total Bases: 303
SLG: .505
AVG: .287
Age: 32
OK Billy Hunters numbers do look better from last year. I think Young has more potential than Hunter though at least offensively.
Here is Hunters major league stats at age 22:
Games: 1
Hits: 0
2B: 0
HR: 0
RBI: 0
Total Bases: 0
SLG: 0
AVG: 0
And I am sticking to my opinion that Bartlett was not the long term answer for the Twins SS. He made 26 errors last year in 138 games, Harris made 13 in 133 gamies at 2B, SS and 3B. Who knows if Harris will even play SS. Hopefully the Twins get Reyes, that would be fun. He only made 12 errors in 160 games, and stole 78 bases.
The Twins should hold on to Nathan until the deadline. Teams will be lined up for him if we decide to trade him then. Relief pitching is the one commodity that might get you better prospects then as opposed to now. Some team will see themselves as being a good bullpen away from making or advancing in the playoffs. Guess what? There won’t be a better relief pitcher available than Nathan at the deadline. I’m sure we could almost name our price then. Besides if we are decent he will be more than helpful for us. Keep him until then, Billy Smith. Not everyone needs to go right at this moment.
Keeping Nathan til the deadline might not be a bad idea, unless the can get what they want now, then do it. If not, wait.
I don’t quite get why a lot of you are bemoaning the loss of Bartlett. Yeah he was our starting shortstop and not that bad of a player. But, come on, swapping him for Harris is hardly the difference between us being good now and in the future. It’s Jason Bartlett for crying out loud!!!
“Young was a much, much worse hitter than Hunter was last season”
Hunter- .287/.334/.507 28 Hr, 107 RBI
Young- .288/.316/.408 13 Hr, 93 RBI
“much, much”?
Of course Hunter was 31 and Young was 21 and a rookie. Young hit over .300 with 25 HRs in both of his full minor leage seasons. The question shouldnt be “who was a better hitter last season” it should be who will be a better hitter next season, and the season after that… There is a very good chance it will be Young.
If the Twins trade Santana to the Mets and somehow we land Rowand, how would this lineup look.
Reyes SS
Mauer C
Young RF
Morneau 1B
Rowand CF
Cuddyer 3B
Kubel DH
Monroe LF
Harris 2B
Moving Cuddyer back to third might be an option, if we don’t land another 3B.
That would be a good offensive lineup,
and who knows we may get another position player from the Mets?
Billy Heywood, the difference between Torii Hunter and Delmon Young is about 10 years. Hunter had a better year, yes, but I definitely wouldn’t qualify it as a “much, much better year.” He’s 32 remember? He had a slightly better year (in all but the HR department), and is again 10 years older.
I refer you to this comment, to which I was responding: “Young is way better than Hunter ever was or will be with the bat.” Hunter’s numbers last season were much better than Young’s across the board. More doubles, home runs, and walks in fewer at bats. Young’s batting average advantage is mitigated by his inability to draw a walk. Young is younger, and he can get better, but to say his bat is “way better” than Hunter’s will ever be is a complete falsehood. Hunter was much, much better last season.
As I said before, besides what I’ve read here today, there is NOT a consensus belief that Morlan is going to be an impact pitcher. It simply doesn’t exist. And my point is that when you’re talking about minor league players–pitchers especially–I’ll defer to the experts on this one. You know, the guys paid to recognize the difference between a guy tearing up high-A minor league hitters and a guy who will win Cy Youngs, save 300 games, and strikeout 3000 at the major league level?
What are you talking about? If Rob Neyer could do any of those things, he wouldn’t be working for ESPN. Rob Neyer is a sabermetrician, and anyone that loves baseball numbers would love Eduardo Morlan. Yes, pitching prospects can be unpredictable, but a guy like Jason Pridie, we know what he is. He’s a no ceiling scrappy player with a fluke 250 AB at AAA. I’ll take the guy with a chance to be successful, or even great, over a guy that we can someday dream will become almost as good as Rob Mackowiak.
As long as they are so adament about making a bunch of trades they should consider getting rid of Mauer for someone that can be an everday catcher without being a whiner and hurt all the time.
Cuddyer isn’t playing third. He’s too bad over there. Might as well play Craig Monroe at third base. Oh wait, he’s about to get non-tendered. I hope the Mets do get desperate and trade us Reyes. He would look mighty good in a Twins uniform. Think Christian Guzman, but good. The only problem I have is that we might like a dominant starter. We have had one for so long that it would bother me to have losing streaks, because of our inexperienced starters. That is, if Liriano doesn’t return to form.
We didn’t add Morlan to get Pridie. We added Morlan to get the Rays to give us Delmon Young. They wanted a relief pitcher too. We just had them throw in Pridie because he fit and the Twins were familiar with him.
LENIII, what do you think this does to the Santana market?
I hope they deal Santana. He is a great pitcher but…..I think the major leagues need to look at salary cap. One player 20+ million a year. What if he gets hurt? We are screwed. Trade him for a good young pitcher and a younger centerfield/and or 3b. Look at A-rod all that money and all those home runs and NO title. If I were santana I would like to go to angels, red soxs, and maybe dodgers but would stay away from NY. But if you want money and all the bs that comes with it then go to NY. It is just like poker the person with the deeper money in their pockets is not the best player.
“much, much”?
Hunter’s OPS+ was 122, well above average. Young’s was 91, which is below average, and he’s a corner outfielder. Someday, Young could be better offensively than Hunter was last year. Now? Not even close to being on par.
The only reason Rincon was ever good was because of steroids. Once he got caught, his career was over. If the Rays won’t even take him as a throw in on this deal, I think it’s safe to say the Twins should just release him and take the salary hit.
As for the rumored Santana deal. They better get legitimate talent in return. We are talking about the best pitcher in baseball. If they give him up for Coco Crisp and pitching prospects who are not the absolute top of the line prospects in the organization it would be very very foolish. Coco Crisp is highly overrated and at best is a mediocre OF. If they trade with Boston it better be Ellsbury and 3 top of the line prospects. If it’s NY, it better be Melky, Joba, and Hughes.
Anything less would be settling. Neither Boston or NY can afford to let the other one land Santana, so use that to have them bid against each other. Eventually the Twins would get what they want. NY and Boston would both give too much for the rights to over-pay Santana simply to keep him from going to the other. NY says they think they can get him without Joba, that shouldn’t happen. If Boston got Santana, NY would be sunk. The Yankees will not allow that to happen, so make them pay. Don’t settle.
We didn’t add Morlan to get Pridie. We added Morlan to get the Rays to give us Delmon Young. They wanted a relief pitcher too. We just had them throw in Pridie because he fit and the Twins were familiar with him.
Again, I responded to someone’s statements. Try to follow along.
The only reason the Twins would non-tender Monroe is because Tyner would be cheaper, but I think an outfield of Kubel, Young and Cuddyer with Monroe and Span/Pridie would look ok.
Here is a Question i want to ask
Anybody thing Cuddy is going to get traded?
Delmon plays RF..
Think the twins pull a bigger deal with Santana and Cuddy going somewhere??
Dodgers perhaps??
Or maybe a Nathan and Cuddy deal?
JW..
“Kubel Sucks. He’ll never be more than a .250 hitter with 10 HRs a year.” - zeebus
Really? In 2007 he hit .273 with 13 home runs despite a bad start to his season. Nice prediction.
Anybody thing Cuddy is going to get traded?
The Twins cannot afford to ship bats away.
I dont think cuddy is going anywhere and he will NOT play 3b again for twins unless emergency
My opinion… Cuddyer will stick around for a long time.
What if cuddy is a linchpin in the Reyes deal?
Santana/Cuddy for reyes/gomez/pelfrey/another prospect??
just throwing it out there…
If santana is traded we need a blue chip pitcher.. (obviously) mets and dodgers dont have that.. but perhaps we could get that by trading nathan..
are we turning into minnesota timberwolves roster
I think we would be lucky to get Reyes, period. They would never add Gomez, even with Cuddy,
you can bet that even if they get two single A prospects for Santana, T/TT will determine this a very wise move, and would call anyone who disagrees with this an obvious baseball neophyte.
I do attack Pohlad, to an extreme,,, T/TT defends him to an extreme
as others have written,we better get a top player for Johan, and if we not,for heavens sakes do not make the deal out of panic now,,
“sounds like the redsox are leading the johan sweepstakes..
crisp, lowrie, lester, and masterson”
Yuck, I dont see the Twins taking that offer. They could get more at the deadline (look at the Texeria trade).
I like Lowrie- but not enough to be the centerpeice of a deal, but Crisp is nothing more than a throw-in as he could be had for a mid-level prospect by Feb (the Sox do not have him in their plans unless they deal Ellsbury). And Lester and Masterson at best will be #3 or #4 starters- we already have one Boof Bonser, we do not need two more of him.
The trade was a good deal for both teams. The Twins get a slugger and two other players; the Rays get a pitcher and SS and minor-leaguer.
I see Young fitting very nicely in the Twins’ lineup. But it does create some questions about CF and IF. I think the Twins are still looking for their CF and 2B or 3B, but they now have lots of infield options, with Casilla, Harris, Buscher and even Punto. And they’re not done trading yet. I could see them getting a great 2B, or 3B and slide Harris into either post, and put Casilla at SS. If they can get either a great 3B, SS or 2B AND a good CF AND an established veteran SP for Santana, we will be set.
One thing that is understated in these transactions is the leadership quotient. Every team needs established team leaders - veterans - for pitching, offense and defense.
Hunter’s role as a team leader will be missed far more than his role as a player. True, they pay him as a player, but he’s also a leader.
What the Twins received in this play were two players with basically a year each in the majors. They gave up one SS who was turning into a team leader (if not on the field) and who likely will be looked to as a team leader in Tampa Bay.
If the Twins trade Santana, the same is true. The Twins have very capable young pitchers on this staff, but with Silva gone, they need a veteran SP - one who can lead behind the scenes. Liriano, Bonser, Baker and Slowey all have less than two full years of ML experience. These are very good SP, but are not the behind-the-scenes leader types. We need someone like that - either Santana, or someone else who can provide the leadership these guys will need.
Without it, the Twins will not make the playoffs in 08.
This leader does not have to be the caliber pitcher of Santana (it would be nice) but just someone who can provide the young SPs with experience and leadership.
I think Cuddyer fills that bill in the outfield (unless we get an established CF). Morneau helps in the IF. and Mauer and Redmond are already there at C. The bullpen also has capable leaders. But if we trade Santana, we will need to either get an established veteran pitcher, or will need to sign one.
my prediction he will be an angel
Nate said: If Boston got Santana, NY would be sunk. The Yankees will not allow that to happen, so make them pay. Don’t settle.
I couldn’t agree more.
A “Top 3″ pitcher in major league baseball with 2 Cy Young’s and a healthy history should be worth a truckload of talent…even if he provides his services for only one year!
The Twins should demand a king’s ransom for Santana, but we have to realize that with that “no trade” clause in his contract, he holds many of the cards!
Why all this Bartlett bashing? He played injured last year. I think his play in the second half of 2006 was as instrumental in our amazing comeback as Justin. Anyway we got him for Buck Buchan for heaven sakes. The disturbing thing is TR and GARDY’S inflexability in regards to Bartlett.They never liked him early on and that’s even more apparent now.Cassila showed us great natural ability when called up last year,It’s obvious he wasn’t ready. He is 22years old .Give him a chance to grow
Rays fan here. Young is one heck of a player. I enjoyed watching him play last year and am sad to see him go. He is a .300/30/100 guy with a cannon arm. Harris is a utility guy with no range. Garza will only be the third starter for the Rays. It seems this Morlan kid is a steal. Can’t wait to see him.
If the Twins trade Santana, we will have some money to spend with the salaries of Santana, Hunter, Castillo, White, Silva, even sweet Lew comming off the books.
Anyone have an idea of what that total will be?
Also, Forbes estimated the Twins would bring in 20 Mil in profit this year (not sure if that includes revenue sharing) but the 25 mil in online money also comming in, there is really no reason our payroll should be significanly lower than it was last year.
Does this make us a more serious player in the FA market?
This is off topic but when is the steroids report that will name names be coming out. You would think they would release the report prior to the GM meetings so teams don’t plunk down millions on a fraud. I’ll go out on a limb and say Jason Tyner is safe.
twinswinagain.blogspot.com
Somewhere I read that Johann wants to play on the east coast. That would eliminate the Dodgers and Angels in the mix as he calls the shots.
We need to be careful– if we ask too much from Boston or the 2 NY teams– one or more may drop out of the bidding — potentially leaving us with one suitor– who in turn could drop their offer.
Rick, there will be a market for Johan for a while yet, there is no rush, we should not compromise in order to unload him quickliy, nothing to gain by that
did u think torrii was going to angels? Also, I dont think any team is going to back out on santana bidding.
We got fleeced!!! We traded the wrong pitcher (it should have been Boof, Slowey, and Rincon) for the wrong Tampa outfielder (it should have been BJ Upton). Delmon is a total headcase. Why would they want a ticking timebomb like this guy. Can you say “Milton Bradley”?! Bartlett didn’t have a great year, but he was solid. Harris has bounced around. I wonder teams didn’t want him. I’m glad Smith is making moves, but what this portends for the Santana and Nathan deals is all bad.
I would have to say that this trade is a good one. I mean any one of those guys hit more home runs last year than our 2nd, 3rd (basemen), and short combined! We were looking for more power right??
senators
at the age of 20 he made mistakes, but at that age who didn’t? a head case is going overboard, from what is wriiten about him and his former team mates are saying about him today, he will be missed.
If the Twins ask for the sky for Santana, and don’t get it, I am not adverse to having to go into the season with him. I want to trade him now, and build the team now, but if we want a lot for him, and we feel we deserve the right to get a lot for him… I really think that we can be choosy. Worst case senerio he leaves after the season for a couple of draft picks, and we hate Carl Pohlad, and Terry “No balls and three strikes” Ryan more, and this team just suffers horribly in 2009 if Carl’s kids don’t pry the wallet open.
BC
TERRY RYAN is no longer our GM
RYAN W-
No it doesn’t make us more of a player in Free Agency. It means that Carl and the kids will pocket more money.
25 million from internet? Are you sure that 25 million isn’t including the National TV package along with the Internet? I mean I think the Twins get about 20-22 million for the National TV deal, and about 2.5 million from the luxury tax paid by the Yankees and Red Sox, and anyone else over… 3 million I believe from the MSN deal, and 1 million from the radio deal. Add in corporate sponserships, and advertising about another 2-4 million…
If you figure they make about 35 million dollars before they even open the doors. I think that attendence will go down this year unless they make a free agent splash, and or resign Santana, but I don’t see them doing it. The team is good at projecting it’s amount of fans, and will then base it’s team salary off of that… which comes out to mean they will keep that money projected this year because they will have to project far less money in 2009.
Great trade! You naysayers just need to shut the hell up. Smith is doing a terrific job. All we need now is Reyes for Santana and we are set! Delmon Young is ours until 2013 and he is only 22! Senators, the Rays got fleeced, not us.
Great trade, Santana is in the same list as Moss, Garnett, great players but never a championship banner with their names on it. they need a team where they can contibute and not be the salary vacuum that takes away from our style of team oriented play. we won divisions when hunter and santana were younger with talent that was hungry to play ball and not worry about money.
it is more fun watching that kind of ball, reminds me of high shool or town teams.
Twins fans, stop dreaming about the Brewers trading Ryan Braun for anyone on your roster. There is not a chance in hell the Brewers deal him.
you can bet that even if they get two single A prospects for Santana, T/TT will determine this a very wise move
Yes, I want to see Santana go to the Yankees for prospects. That’s why I’ve continually voiced that I want at least one of their top young MLB pitchers and a position player (3B/CF) that is MLB ready.
I do attack Pohlad, to an extreme,,, T/TT defends him to an extreme
I’m sorry, but I don’t recall writing entire nursery rhymes dedicated to my opinion. Nor do I spend most of my posts attempting to come up with “clever” nicknames.
Oh, and TT and I aren’t the same person, despite your wish to only to have to worry about one more person smarter than you.
Though I suppose you believe Shaun/Shawn are the same guy as well. I mean the names are also one letter off. Or do they both agree with you…at which point I guess that would qualify them as seperate people in your eyes.
Forgot to close my bold tags. Well darn.
It’s funny, I was able to fix it in Howard’s blog once simply by writing a post with the subsequent close tag.
So I’ll try that here.
—there’s a close tag here.
Hopefully that fixes it. Leaves me wondering if their code for handling comments isn’t open to injection attacks. Should probably talk to whoever maintains the service. If an open bold tag can mess all this up, I’d hate to see what other tags could do.
At the beginning of last year, a number of people were speculating that Hunter was gone and they might lose Santana. This trade started a rebuilding that was necessary- 05 was a fluke that ended badly because we had no pitching past Santana, Next year, we will have Liriano, Baker, Bonser, Slowey and maybe PErkins as the rotation. This rotation is a year away from big time, meanwhile the right handed bat they have looked for the past three years should be Young, if the Twins get Hughes and Cabrera for Santana, this may go down as well as the Viola trade did in 89. I was at the 17 K game this summer and hate to think that we will not have Johan anymore, but then we have to look forward, as he was not planning to return last year (he sold his house in August of last year, not the kind of thing you do if you want to stay).
This trade started a rebuilding that was necessary-
I don’t know if I’d consider this rebuilding. Yes they’re trading away some big players, however the kinds of guys they’re getting in return or looking to get aren’t prospects that may pan out in a few years.
Young, Hughes, Bucholtz, Ellsbury, Cano…they’re looking to make an immediate impact.
Also, if they have their eyes on Rowand (which appears to be the case acording to either LEN3 or JoeC), then that’s another sign that this is less about rebuilding. I don’t know if signing big name/key free agents is considered a rebuilding move.
It’s why I use the term “reshuffling” since it seems this is more about spreading production across the field and getting the roster lined up so they can have some young guys that they can start locking up in the next few years.
Enough about Jose Reyes! There is no way the Mets are trading him. He is arguably the second best player in baseball behind A-Rod. He will be a New York Met for the next 10+ years. That is a guarantee.
with all this santana trade I sit and think how much money does NY Yankees have anyway. Everyone one of those guys is making millions. They will go after santana and they will also go after Andrew Jones probably. When is enough really enough. I like the comment
we won divisions when hunter and santana were younger with talent that was hungry to play ball and not worry about money.
it is more fun watching that kind of ball, reminds me of high shool or town teams.
TJ- there is no way anyone on earth can argue that Jose Reyes is the second best player in baseball. That is a laughably dumb statment.
I like the trade. Garza will be great but we have an abundance of young pitchers. He has also been underwhelming so far. Delmon Young has also been underwhelming at times. We have a trade of an underwhelming young high ceiling starting pitcher and an underwhelming high ceiling outfielder. The difference is Youngs upside is a lot higher than Garzas in my opinion. And dont give me the Brendan Harris doesn’t have enough range to play ss. And what Bartlett did? Yeah his 26 errors last season to lead the league really shows his range. Harris is a huge upgrade over Bartlett at ss, look at their numbers. Morlan, yeah but we have plenty of arms in the minors, Johan Pino,Alexander Smit, among others. Pridie is supposed to be a decent prospect himself. Good job Bill Smith.
