Wednesday: Good Morning
Posted on November 28th, 2007 – 9:34 AMBy La Velle
It doesn’t surprise me one bit that the Twins are willing to trade Joe Nathan and Johan Santana.
As painful as it is for fans to watch good players leave, the talent the Twins could receive for these two players could put them in position to make a run in 2010 when the new ballpark opens.
It’s not like they are gutting the roster. The M & M boys will be around in 2010, as well as several pitchers who should be polished by then. Florida has successfully moved good players and reloaded twice - the main difference being that they have won two World Series titles while the Twins have only made it out of the first round once in four tries since 2002.
But if the Twins’ history of identifying good players serves them well, they should get some talented players back.
What they should still be criticized for, however, is not staying ahead of the market. Hunter, Santana and Nathan all could have been signed a year ago. The Twins needed to be proactive.
They shouldn’t make the same mistakes with Justin Morneau and Michael Cuddyer.
Trade rumors: Told you things were about to heat up. Joe C. and I were in chase mode yesterday.
There was a report from a radio station in L.A. that the Twins were about to send Morneau to the Angels for Ervin Santana and Casey Kotchman. We looked into it but there doesn’t appear to be anything cooking there.
I did get a call last night about the Twins and Boston’s Coco Crisp. Crisp is really starting to get attention because clubs don’t want to overpay for Aaron Rowand and Andruw Jones. I was told that 1. The Twins remain very interested in Crisp but 2. If Santana gets dealt to the Red Sox, the Twins want Jacoby Ellsbury in the deal. So there’s a chance that Santana is traded elsewhere and the Twins could go after Crisp.
Also heard a rumor that Lew Ford is drawing interest from the Hanshin Tigers.
I reported today that the Twins have had discussions with the Angels, Red Sox and Yankees about Santana. I’m sure more teams are interested, like the Dodgers and Mets. I prefer to get it confirmed that the team has actually talked to the Twins instead of assuming that they have. We’ve read plenty of stories about teams prepared to enter the Santana sweepstakes if he becomes available. I’m looking for more than that.
I know the Brewers need a closer, but I reached out to someone I know in that area and the response I got was that Brewers GM Doug Melvin really wants to hold on to his young players. Nathan might not be a fit there, but that could change.
We also head a Boof Bonser-to-the-Devil, er, to-the-Rays deal. Looked into it but found nothing. Again, there could be something there but we just haven’t tapped into the right information source yet. Seriously, this is CSI Minnesota sometimes.
197 Responses to "Wednesday: Good Morning"
Lew Ford to the Hanshin Tigers? I’ll help pack his bags.
I’m glad there doesn’t seem to be any truth to the Morneau trade rumor. Twins need to pony up and get him signed long term!
If the Twins trade Santana and Nathan I will not go to any game in 2010.
I will watch on the TV and radio but will not set foot in that stadium that year.
Its the only way I know how to protest my disgust with our ownership.
And I hope all Twins fans to do the same.
Make them feel our pain of following a team that only wants to be above .500 and never wants to win a championship.
Boycott the new Stadium!!!!
(unless of course they sign Santana then I do a complete 180 and shower love on Smith and crew forever!)
Maybe Hashin is after Lew Ford because of his gaming skills. I bet he would be interested as long as he can tour Nintendo Headquarters.
Count me in with helping Lew. That’s one U-Haul truck I’d enjoy loading!
Boycotting the Twins if they trade Santana & Nathan? Whoah.
If we can get Cano+young arms from the Yanks, or Reyes+young studs from the Mets, how could that be a bad deal? Although he’s young, he has a lot of mileage on his left arm. Nathan’s arm is due to break down in the next year or two - plus Neshek is ready to take over the closer position. If they could get a big young stick for Nathan, I’m all for it.
Right on, LENIII. The sell off here is directly related to the inactivity and lack of vision by the Twins front office in prior years. Given the situation that the Twins find themselves, I’m all in favor of selling some assets and re-loading.
The Twins should be interested in Lew Ford. It’d be nice to have a guy in the organization that can adequately man center on a major league team.
michael
So if the Twins are looking to reload with their eye on 2010 and they have a team that is good enough to go to the playoffs in 2010, you aren’t going to go to the stadium? That makes a lot of sense. I can understand not wanting to go to games in 2008 but I think the Twins are looking to the future because they realize that they can’t compete right now. You are looking ahead to boycott which is just absurd.
Vanilla Shady
that is fine.
You obviously have been drinking the Twins Kool-Aid and feel that its OK to trade the best and never build around the best.
Enjoy your cute team
Funny how some so called fans fall in love with players. True fans follow the team.
Jama,
You are stuck in the land of .500
Good for you! You just want to see you team have a chip and a chair
You enjoy playing fantasy trade and never want to focus on the present.
Have fun.
Maybe I am alone, But I like some of this stuff out there. Santana and Nathan? Ok, but kill it in the deals. 2010 could be a huuuuge year. I love getting Coco for something. He is as good as hunter with the leather. The Twins didn’t win with these guys, I kind of like the idea of Billy building his team his way.
Like I said, I am probably alone here and will get killed by the bloggers.
Flame on my friends.
Brookshire
Don’t play that crap on me. I have been a season ticket holder for years.
How else can a fan show disgust with an ownership group other than not show up?
Or are we just supposed to get on our knees and thank Carl and family for not moving the team?
Michael if you don’t like what the Twins are doing don’t go to any games, don’t watch any games on TV, and don’t buy any jerseys/memorabilia. Also you can’t watch any other baseball games because the Twins get money from revenue sharing. And for that matter you better stay away from the websites which means you are best not to long onto this blog.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets cave and offer Reyes in a deal. They don’t seem to have the prospects compared to others and realize the impact Santana would have.
Has there ever been talk of trying Bartlett at third if the Twins did pick up a SS somewhere else? Does he have the arm strength? Just curious.
Jama
That is stupid
I LOVE this team and always have
I am disgusted with the ownership group so I won’t go to any games in 2010.
And I really won’t play the childish fantasy trade games.
after you snookered through a stadium you need to make a good faith gesture of appreciation to the public.
That does NOT mean pulling the plugs and signing every player, Torii, other teams high priced free agents et al
It does mean ponying up for one of the top pitchers of our generation so when he enters Cooperstown he is wearing a Twins cap. That of course is not the main reason, but now and then the Twins need to maintain a top star, especially after snookering the public for a stadium.
I agree Michael. If cheap Carl is going to gut the team, its really no better than had he moved it. The fans need to show their digust with this tightwad money grubber.
This fantasy “who are we going to get” crap only serves Carl and Crew.
It gets the proletariat excited and not thinking that we can’t pay the best player in baseball.
Trading speculation is the opiate of the masses!
Kevin, what makes you so sure Santana wants to stay here?
the clown in st paul should get his press pass revoked for saying trade silva. it’s one thing for a casual fan to not know he’s a fa but a reporter? sad.
this am talk about the boofet to rays deal said they like bartlett? could a combo boofet and bartlett plus prospect get upton or crawford?
i’m not sold on melky much rather have cano if possible. shudder, punto could play ss. defense would be fine maybe his bat can come back a little.
seems the boston and ny press think they both want to keep santana away from the other, let’s hope they get into a bidding war.
if nathan and santana go plus hunter and silva where is all that money 30M going?
Expand the Santana to the Mets deal, send Bartlett to get NYY their shortstop, which would probably net MN another prospect. Maybe that 19 year old OF along with Gomez and a pitcher.
Trading Santana and Nathan is not “gutting” the team. It is looking at the big picture and not being short sighted. If you sign Santana and Nathan you are going to be an average team at best over the life of those contracts. If you can turn those 2 guys into 5 or 6 players that will contribute with 2 of them turning into All-Star caliber players you are improving the team. Why can’t you guys understand that reloading isn’t always a bad thing?
michael- What does boycotting the new stadium do? All that does is hurt the team not the owner. Plus you know the 1st season is going to be sold out 98% of games.
Michael:Go ahead and boycott, that will mean better seats for the real baseball fans.I really don’t understand why everyone is getting their panties in such a bundle over rehaping this team.People need to realize that this franchise has maxed out on the potential of this current group of players.The Twins have finished Third two out of the last three years with the “best pitcher on the planet”.
Santana is a great pitcher but paying him 25m a year for six years is insane.He will be 35 years old at the end of that contract and at his current pace(if he doesn’t get hurt)will have thrown close to 2500 innings in his career.The Twins have to many areas’s of need to not change course.And they had those needs even with Santana,Hunter,and Nathan.People need to understand the Twins are never going to operate on a top tier payroll scale.Most teams don’t.If as a fan thats what you are looking for,cheer for the Yankees or RedSox.
I understand Ryan made huge mistakes in under estimating the market and his players values.We can’t change that, and neither can Bill Smith.I will wait to see what is brought back in trade before I pass any judgement on Mr. Smith.
bah..NYM not NYY
Gobbledy..that money SHOULD be going to lock up guys long term. Morneau/Cuddyer, plus any of the vets that come on board.
And of course, save some to draw interest for future signings 
Funkytown
The NYY have a guy named Jeter that is their SS. I don’t think he is going anywhere!
I hope we trade Nathan. He didn’t look as dominant last year and if he continued the decline in 08 we’d be sitting here this time next year griping because we didn’t get something done while he still had max value.
when you dont sign Torii, and not signing him was the right decision by the team, and you unload Santana and Nathan, you are on the edge of gutting the team.
I want Santana here UNLESS they get the kind of deal they cant turn down, which I dont think is likely.
I would love to see some of that $30 million go to signing the best available player the Twins could draft. I am really sick of drafting guys because they will sign for cheap. The Twins should also spend some more money on scouting which has taken a bit of a hit lately.
I think you should be a smart baseball fan and realize that even with Hunter, Nathan and Santana, they weren’t going to compete this year or next year, so they are going to get players so they can compete sooner.
You know, like the Indians, Tigers, Marlins and so on.
Go ahead and boycott in 2010, I’m sure they are going to have a tough time filling your seat.
I probably wont be able to keep myself away in 2010, but i dont see myself going to seethis second rate product in 2008.
You guys are just used to losing.
You get all excited about “what we gonna get” like a kid before Christmas but once you get it, all you think about is next Christmas.
You sedate yourself with your trade speculation to numb the reality that the twins are going to lose the best pitcher in baseball who is worth 20+ a year.
That rate will only go up and its time we pay it and start being a big league franchise not the “Little Engine that Could.”
I will concede some of you (Doug, Jama, some others) are smart baseball fans, smarterthan the average fan whne it comes to baseball, and some of your ideas are not without validity.
However, two things. One, Carl has to play a bit to not just the smart baseball fan, but the larger masses. Doing this means KEEPING a star, now and then.
Second, if Carl really did what you all are advocating, I would not disagree with you. But the feelign some of us get is that once those prospects he gets mature, and become good, the Twins will then again unload them. I dont want the Twins to be a revolving door and farm team for others. It would be nice to have a core of continuity.
Boycott the new Stadium!!!!
There you go! Let’s punish them for not spending more money by not supporting them and thus making sure they don’t have more money to spend.
That of course is not the main reason, but now and then the Twins need to maintain a top star
I’m going to ignore the fact you used snookered twice within a few sentences of each other (which must be on your “Word of the Day” calendar), and instead focus on this.
Mauer and Morneau aren’t top stars? Last I checked they’ve both got an All-Star game under their belts, have done national promotions (Mauer for Pepsi I believe and Morneau’s on the cover of a video game)
If we can lock up Morneau long term before he gets too expensive at least it will show they’ve learned their lesson. If they don’t, I’ll be pissed. That doesn’t mean I think we should sign guys to long term deals that would only hurt the team out of a false sense of loyalty to the player. I love Johan and I wish we could resign him, but there are more cons than pros to doing that.
Michael- You probably feel we should have given Torii his 5 years, huh? Hell, why not give him 6 years with an option for a seventh? He did come up with the organization after all.
Michael, you are exactly right on your last post.
jama: Good points on the drafting and scouting situation.For a team that needs to survive on building from within, the Twins have taken a step back in that area.I would hope that a more balanced approach to pitching and offense would be taken.
In your mind, then, there are only about 5 or 6 “big league franchises”. There aren’t many teams at all that will drop that much money on a pitcher.
Like I keep saying, the Twins screwed up Santana, Hunter, and Nathan. The only way at this point to correct that is to throw WAY more money at those players than would be a smart idea for this team.
So they’re admitting they screwed up, trying to make sure the Hunter situation doesn’t play out again with Nathan and Santana and using this as an opportunity to get some salary reshuffled so they CAN sign a few guys long term.
They may not keep Santana, but would you be happy if moving him let’s them start wrapping up guys like Morneau, Cuddyer, Nehsek, Liriano, Garza…etc?
Michael: If you are that upset with the owner why wait until 2010 to not go to any games???
I don’t think reloading is a bad thing either when you’re getting 3 or 4 players for 1, but I would like to remind Carl Pohlad that his net worth is twice that of George Steinbrenner. He had better be getting the rest of the guys signed up to longterm deals.
I agree with the earlier post that this has more to do with inactivity of the past. After seeing Hunter leave because he couldn’t be afforded, it seems they have realized that they need to go young and lock them up when they are still young, like the Indians have been doing. Even if Santana and Nathan are traded that doesn’t mean the season is over. What will the drop off from Garza to Santana be? 10 games tops? What will the drop off from Nathan to Neshek be? 4 saves? For around $30million savings I can live with that, assuming(and it is a big assumption) that all of this savings gets used to lock up guys like Morneau, Cuddyer, Garza, Liriano, etc.
Anybody else remember how the world fell apart when Jones, Guzman, Koskie, Mientkiewicz, Pierzynski, Rivas were let go/traded? What have those guys done since leaving?
At least now the Twins are looking to trade players at their peak value for players about to hit their peak rather than waiting to be priced out of the market or waiting until after a player has passed their prime.
Finally, I’m looking forward to round two of the “Get to Know ‘Em” campaign 
Second, if Carl really did what you all are advocating, I would not disagree with you. But the feelign some of us get is that once those prospects he gets mature, and become good, the Twins will then again unload them.
And that’s what I find most irritating. There’s a difference between getting mad at something that has happened and getting mad at something you ASSUME is going to happen. Even if signs are that the Twins are in the middle of changing their outlook (they’re looking to trade Santana and Nathan…a sign that they’ve learned from what happened with Hunter).
Read my comment above, I address my feelings at what the Twins are doing right now.
Jama, good point. To call trading two pitchers “gutting” a team is a bit of an exaggeration.
The Twins have already gotten rid of $30+ million, if Santana and Nathan go its over $50 mil. I think they should be able fill some holes with that kind of green available.
Patrick
No I don’t. Not signing Tori I can live with.
While Santana is young and the BEST. People of his caliabur will be worth $20,000,000 + for the foreseeable future.
Its time the twins realize that to win the World Series a 28 year old player who is the best at his position must be kept at all costs. Otherwise we will just be a .500 team and never a championship team.
Its not often you have the best player and if he is young, with a bright future, you pay him.
At least now the Twins are looking to trade players at their peak value for players about to hit their peak rather than waiting to be priced out of the market or waiting until after a player has passed their prime.
Bingo. For prime examples of this see Lohse, Kyle and Romero, J.C. I imagine Rincon, Juan will be on that list within a few months.
Signing Hunter for five years would have been a big mistake. We will feel bad for a year or two, but after that the wisdom of letting go will become more clear. As for Johan, I do hope we sign him. But if we can’t, they darn well better get something for him. I do need help in understanding why more pitchers than third basemen keep coming up in the trade speculation.
Re: Bartlett to 3rd - same problem as punto, not a good enough bat.
Seriously though if you could get a Cano, Crisp, a slugger, and pitching for Santana, Nathan, and who ever. this team can compete in 08. Santana is amazing, I would like to see a way to keep him, but I just don’t think it is realistic. Say what you will about Pohlad, but he didn’t become a billionaire by running business’ poorly. The Twins just happen to be a business to him. Can we fault him for that…sure. Fault him for the whole contraction deal. But look at the Twolves, they are run by another billionaire who happens to be running the team like a fan. That hasn’t worked out so well.
backwards k
When have the twins ever shown that they are willing to pay top dollar for the best players?
Jama, good point. To call trading two pitchers “gutting” a team is a bit of an exaggeration.
Especially when it’s being done to bring in IMMEDIATE help, and not a bunch of prospects that may or may not pan out.
This isn’t a firesale, not by any means. This team can make a few move sand be ready to go by 2010. And the upside will be that those guys will start getting signed and kept around.
You can’t expect the team to completely rennovate with a new philosophy in one offseason.
T -
You are happy just being .500
The difference between you and me is I want to win a championship
I don’t see a problem building for 2010 and the new stadium. They obviously cannot win with this team, so why not get some young talent and make the 1st season in the new stadium interesting. Any real baseball fan will still support them in the dome until then too.
Trading Santana and Nathan will be the end of the Twins as we know them. Only the Twins are stupid enough to trade away the best pitcher in the game and get someone third-rate outfielder for him.
This is NOTHING like trading AJ for Nathan, Lirino, and Boof.
Jama and T are my favorite bloggers today.
“This isn’t a firesale”
You guys just keep popping those opiates….
good one Michael, I am sure T just want’s a .500 team. Isn’t that all we “fairweathered” fans want.
When have the twins ever shown that they are willing to pay top dollar for the best players?
So you’ll only be happy if they go sign some big name free agent at 20 mil/yr? Cause that’s what I hear.
And you know what, forget the track record. New GM, remember? Let’s see these next few offseasons playout. Heck, if Nathan and Santana are dealt the players brought in will be a quick sign as to what direction they’re going to take.
Bring in younger talent and if they play out lock them up longterm. The kind of payroll increase to fix this team for an immediate pennant chase in ‘08 would be beyond reasonable. Especially once you factor in raises for the current guys who deserve it (and those who need to get locked up longterm before Hunter/Santana Rd 2 can playout)
LEN III
I haven’t looked but what draft picks did the Twins get for Hunter. I know they got a 1st round pick and a sandwich pick but what picks are those going to be? Does this give the Twins 3 picks in the top 45? If that is the case they better be spending at least $5 million on those 3 guys instead of signing guys they have rated lower.
T, you make some good points. I do hope the Twins have realized their mistakes and will start learning from them, starting with signing Morneau to a long-term deal.
New Era new GM, maybe a new foundation for this team. Does anyone really think they were winning the Series this year if they kept Hunter and signed santana?
Lets see how it plays out.
“They obviously cannot win with this team”
What?!?!?
Why not?
A premier closer, a good starting rotation anchored by the best pitcher in baseball.
A stud catcher
A good first baseman
A solid Right Fielder
Kubel should be better in LF
A SS who is solid
Third base
And another outfielder is all they need to be good
Add a DH and blamo we got a contender
You are happy just being .500
The difference between you and me is I want to win a championship
Did that sound clever when you were writing it?
Trading Santana and Nathan will be the end of the Twins as we know them.
Of course it will be. But then the guys they bring in will be younger, more affordable at this point, and then can be signed long term once revenues go up (not value, REVENUE)
Remember the Get To Know’em era? I wonder what happened to Torii, Ortiz, Johan and AJ. Did they ever turn into anything worthwhile?
Michael,
If Santana is traded to the Yankees, I will like baseball less. I will probably not buy the MLB package or be as excited to see the Twins when they come close to NY state. This won’t be a blip on the Twins or MLBs radar. The Vikings had always been my favorite team, but the way they have managed themselves and the Twins 2002-2006 have brought me to the Twins bandwagon…. guess i will devote more dollars to other MN teams and less to the Twins… ramble over.
Who’s popping opiates now?
Michael: did you watch the team last year? They’re about four/five players away from SERIOUSLY contending, and that’s WITH Torii, Johan, and Nathan. I believe it was T that stated this earlier: to expect this team to compete in ‘08 (and thus spending a lot to do so), is totally unrealistic.
michael, they had that team this year and finished in third place. And if they make all these signings, this team would be going nowhere after a couple years with a massive budget that they wouldn’t be able to cover.
Michael, stop trying to make sense in here.
You are exactly right. Carl has never shown a willingness to pay top dollar, so it is very logical to assume he will not start now, nor when any prospects he gets for Johan get good, IF they get good.
Of course, for Santana, we need more than propects. We need a proven top notch player, or two. NO, this does not mean I think they should have signed Torii, totally different.
I think some of these Carl defenders in here are on his payroll, or probably dont live anywhere near Hennepin County.
Jenny, do you have a link to the story breaking the news of a trade involving Santana for a third-rate outfielder?
Last I checked only ONE team won the WS last year, despite several teams that plunked down a lot of $$$. Several other teams made the playoffs with relatively low payrolls. Throwing money around doesn’t guarantee a winner.
I don’t know who peed in your round Minnesota made cereal, but relax dude. It sounds as if the big guns at Kirby Puckett central are working hard for you, and the rest of the state, to put a winner out there for a long time to come.
Here’s something from mlbtraderumors.com. I don’t know why we keep hearing about rumors for RFs.
“[Charlie] Walters tosses out the idea of a Matt Garza for Carlos Quentin swap. He’s the guy who was saying previously that Garza for Delmon Young wouldn’t die. I think if Quentin demonstrated good health this could be a fair swap.”
“So you’ll only be happy if they go sign some big name free agent at 20 mil/yr?”
That is not what I am saying at all.
I am saying we have the best pitcher in baseball. He is here. Now. Lets win with him.
To trade the best pitcher just because we don’t want to pay market rate is maddening
Kevin, I don’t live anywhere near Hennepin County. Does that mean I can’t be a Twins fan? I personally think signing Santana to a 20-25 mill per year deal is a bad decision (if he even wants to anymore).
I love how that Hennepin County line irks outstate fans.
The Steinbrenner to Pohlad comparision is not valid.Do you really think the Yankees dip into George’s wallet constantly to sign these players? The Yankees sign these guys because thay have the budget within their baseball operations to do so.The TV money they generate is HUGE.They probably generate more revenue from their merchandising than the Twins do in five years.The “Yankees” is a national brand.
Speaking of Morneau(I’m getting a little tired of the trade talk today), how much do you think if will cost to sign him and for how many years? Or better what do you think the Twins should offer hime?
If I was the Twins I would offer a 6 year deal for around $80 million. I know that they might be paying him a little more than he is worth right now but in 2 or 3 years it will look like a bargain. My only concern is that the Twins don’t like to go over 4 or 5 year deals.
So did Zito get market rate? I know it was a bad year, but Santana wasn’t the best pitcher in baseball last year. I am not sure what market rate is for him, but I do know that Silva is most likely going to get “market rate”. Do you want to pay him 9M+ a year too?
Now don’t get me wrong, I DO think he is the best overall pitcher in baseball, but to pay a guy 30M a year in a mid market is just not realistic.
“I am saying we have the best pitcher in baseball. He is here. Now. Lets win with him.”
HOW ARE WE GOING TO WIN WITH HIM???
The line that I’ve read from various posters here or from various sportswriters (Buster Olney and Jerry Crasnick for example) regarding how we’re going to keep Santana and look to win in ‘08 is absolutely maddening.
Going back to trades, again, I have also seen the Carlos Quentin rumors. He would play Center Field for the Twins. He actually was one of the best prospects going into last year but got injured. I don’t think a straight swap for Garza would be a great idea but he could be a possible replacement in CF.
Todd, I disagree with the reasoning we didnt win with him so why not trade him.
We could have won with him if cheap Carl had unloaded for maybe a strong DH, better than Rondell White, Phil Nevin, et al.
To win the big one, you need star pitchers, like Becket, Schilling, etc.
The Yankees could say, we didnt win with Jeter, lets trade him.
Todd Anthony, it is really quite simple. All Bill Smith needs to do is read these blogs to learn how to buid a winning team. (Unless he listens to those of us who only want a .500 team.)
I love how that Hennepin County line irks outstate fans.
Why shouldn’t it? This is the exact kind of entitlement that’s leading to the kinds of complaints that come up everyday.
Do you think the Twins are the ONLY team in baseball that has fans that don’t live in the region?
how much do you think if will cost to sign him and for how many years? Or better what do you think the Twins should offer him?
I like 5-6 years. It’s not too long (so if he fades or gets hurt it’s not too big a blow). And I definately agree that $75-80 mil total may seem like a bit much NOW, but it’ll be worth it if he continues to grow as a hitter.
and sometimes i think i don’t make any sense. they, supposedly, offer santana 4 more yrs at 20m yr. he, supposedly, turned it down. there are only 3-4 teams that can afford a 25m a yr pitcher even a great one. we have to be smart (not so much the last 1 or 2 yrs) scout well and lock up your best young players (morneau) not sold that cuddyer is the answer. we have way to many holes to fill after last year and losing silva and hunter make for even more holes to fill. and for all the mauer fans look at the #’s he may be the 3 or 4th best catcher in the central. one great year and the other 2 ave. by central stanards far less than victor mart.
Kevin, we need more than just Santana though, that’s my point. I read and hear various experts discuss how we’re going to make a run in ‘08 with Santana and Liriano…really? Who’s going to play 3B? CF? DH? 2B? Who else is going to take some of the pressure off of Guerrier, Nathan, and Neshek in the bullpen.
My point is this: the team, as it’s currently constructed (and in my opinion of course) is not in a position to win anything in ‘08.
Why keep Santana then? He’s our most valuable trading chip.
Just saw the Garza rumor. Boy the Twins rumors are all over the place, huh?
I just want SOMETHING to happen.
T
Do you think Morneau would sign a 6 year deal for $80 million?
I posted this late on the previous LEN3 blog, so it probably got lost in cyberspace when this new one posted.
Regarding a Nathan trade to the Brewers, I would expect that we would get a starting position player in return and wouldn’t be surprised if we also get a 3B prospect named Matt Gamel.
“Just saw the Garza rumor. Boy the Twins rumors are all over the place, huh?
I just want SOMETHING to happen. ”
Shaun, I kind of do too
Maybe it’s just that I would like the front office to be proactive.
Good, I’ll set my Twins clock alarm to 2010 then.
Agree that the biggest recent mistake that the Twins did was not sign players long term in a timely manner. Now with the new stadium coming, there are no excuses not to sign Morneau to a long extension this postseason (unless there any medical concerns, which I doubt.) I am not sure about Cuddyer, on the other hand…
As far as Nathan goes, a trade would be a good thing. The pitching is overloaded both for starters and the bullpen, as is and Nathan (and potentially Bonser, Rincon & Reyes) could bring several nice players in return. Trading Nathan to the Brewers with a package of Joe Dillon, Callix Crabbe and either Yovani Gallardo/Carlos Villanueva in return would be a very nice match (Ryan Braun would be great but he is probably untouchable). Centainly, teams like the Mets (if not involved in a Santana deal) or the Rays would potentially give up outfield and 3B prospects for Reyes, Bonser and Rincon (Ben Johnson, Ruben Gotay, Mets or Evan Longoria, Justin Ruggiano, Joel Guzman from the Rays)…
Still a Santana trade almost would have to happen first to see how the pieces would fall in place.
If you guys think the trade rumors are crazy now, wait another week when the winter meetings are going on. I am guessing that at least 3 current Twins are traded. Who is going to be the big question.
I have been saying the whole offseason, trade Santana and Nathan. This is by far the best thing the Twins can do presently. Yes they could have signed them up long term last year, but lets focus on the now.
They can get some pretty good talent for these two, and why not trade the like of Slowey or Baker for some other guys too, I think Boof is gone no matter what. He is a balloon and we don’t need someone like him.
Neshek is ready to come in and try out for closer, or put Liriano in there for part of the season to help his arm beef up and then get him in the rotation.
We all have to conceed that the Twins will not get a max deal for just Santana so if we throw in some other players in a deal we could get that max for some guys that we didn’t want that bad, excluding Santana in that want category.
I am willing to watch the team play decent baseball while I know it is strengthening.
The Tribe will eventually have to pay more for the team and do the same thing we are doing so watch out in a couple of years.
Michael you continue to forget two basic points.Point one,the Twins over the last three years haven’t really won anything WITH Santana.Point two,to supply him with the needed talent to really have a shot,the Twins would need to drastically raise the payroll.Thay aren’t going to do that.If santana were a free agent after the ‘09 season the twins would probably sign him.
Some call it cheap,some call it sound business.The players always call it “business” when they sign with another team for a huge over priced contract.Why can’t the owners be allowed to use the same logic when it comes to not signing someone to a contract they feel will have a negative long term impact on the frnchise.
And while I agree Santana is probably worth what he’s asking realative to the over all market,how many six year deals end up looking good by that sixth year.Look at Mike Hampton and his 8 year 115M contract and see if that looks good now.
It’s just starting to hit me that the final two seasons in the Metrodome might not be that enjoyable. This team had such a solid core to build around, and now it appears it’s being torn apart. I hate teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Cubs and Giants that drive up salaries so much, the Twins can’t keep their players around. When is the madness going to stop? I just wish Pohlad would throw some of his extra millions into the baseball operation to reward the fans of Minnesota for giving him a ballpark.
Thrylos98, there is NO WAY the Brewers would even consider trading Ryan Braun. No chance. I hear Dustin Pedroia’s name being tossed out by Twins fans as a potential player in a trade with the BoSox. Not going to happen either.
Longoria from the Rays? No chance either. He’s MLB ready now and will probably be in the Majors by June. The Rays will then move Iwamura over to 2B as they’re pretty weak there.
You mention Ruggiano. That intrigues me, as I haven’t heard his name mentioned once on these blogs or anywhere else. I know he’s a CF and a top prospect who got a Sept. call up and played for Team USA a few weeks ago in Taiwan. He could be another Grady Sizemore.
Am I the only one who throws up in his mouth repeatedly when reading or hearing reports regarding Coco Crisp to the Twins (whether it’s the Twins looking to trade someone other than Johan for him, or the Red Sox looking to pawn Crisp off on us in a Santana trade)?
TJ…S
Good point about the Tribe. I am curious what CC Sabathia is asking for. He is in the same situation as Santana. I haven’t looked but I wonder what the Indians fans are saying about getting him signed. By 2010 the Indians are going to be in a very similar situation as the Twins are in now. They will have to decide whether or not to extend Sizemore and Hafner and what to do with Carmona as he will be expensive by that point. Many teams are in the same situation as the Twins it will be interesting to see how different philosophies work out for the different teams.
Everyone says the baseball players union will never accept any form of a salary cap. I hope the next time Bud Selig is asked about a salary cap he remembers this quote from Torii Hunter. “No one is worth this kind of money..but that’s what the market is paying”.
“Maybe it’s just that I would like the front office to be proactive.”
They’re certainly being proactive about getting rumors out on the inter-web.
Which is fine with me since this is what the offseason is for. Useless, sometimes baseless, trade speculation to imagine all the different possibilities and dream scenarios. I’ll never get tired of trade rumors.
I didn’t realize Quentin played CF. I always thought he was in right.
I think Santana and Nathan are both gone. I also think Smith goes back on his word and trades pitching prospects even though Santana got dealt. The obvious choice for the most return is Garza. Santana, Nathan, and Garza. If those are the guys who go, we’re going to have a lot of different parts next year.
“to win the big one, you need star pitchers like Becket,schilling etc.”
History doesn’t support that.The Rockies got to the series with out what would be termed a “star” pitcher.The Cardinals had no one of Santanas quality.The White Sox did it in ‘05 with five pitchers who all had very good years but again, none of them compared to Santana.What they all shared was a balanced team,and they all had far superior offenses to the Twins current line-up.
Buff
The people of MN did doodley-squat for the twins.
The people of Hennepin County (like me) did.
Therefore we now have a greater claim to the twins than others! (joke)
If we signed Johan to an 6-8 year deal for 20 million a year, he would be 36-27 at the end of the contract.
That is not old for a player who keeps in great shape like does and at that time 20 mil would be a bargin for a player like him
Todd, I agree with you about Crisp. I don’t find him that appealing as our cf for next year, I’d only want him as a last resort for maybe Bonser (not saying that would get him, but that’s all I’d give up). I think people are excited about him in hopes that a change of scenery would help him return to his level of play with the Indians, and if scouts thought he could hit like that again, I would be all for trading for him.
Doug -
Carpenter won the cy young award that year
Right now with Santana and Nathan the Twins have $30+ mil to spend. Deduct $5 mil for Monroe (if they keep him). That leaves $25 mil to fill 3B, CF, 2B & DH. Add $20 mil if they trade Santana and Nathan for prospects or young MLB ready talent. I think ‘08 and ‘09 could be very fun years if these youngsters were too pan out and a few long term contracts were signed.
If MLB can’t figure out how to have each team, regardless of size, operate on a level playing field (pun intended), then it is as guilty as cheapskate owners and whorish players of ruining the integrity of the game.
To those who say in order to root for a team that can compete then one needs to change allegiance from a “small to mid-level market” to NY, BOS, or LA, that is some perverted logic, people. Just listen to what you have communicated by saying that: you’ve just vouched for the fact the game is rigged.
If his name was something like Mike Jones, Coco Crisp wouldn’t be getting as much interest as he is.
$5 mil for Justin??!?
You are living in a fantasy land.
He will be at least 7 - 8 mil a year
At LEAST
Michael,
Santana isn’t going to sign for 20M a year. That is the problem.
Crisp is a great fielder. I like him as a player. but not as the complete solution.
If his name was something like Mike Jones, Coco Crisp wouldn’t be getting as much interest as he is.
If it weren’t for the Hunter contract and the money that Boras wants for Jones…odds are Crisp wouldn’t be ad “desired” as he currently is.
I imagine the whole Mike Cameron situation didn’t help much.
assuming trades are made and with possible extensions figured in we still save 20+ m on salaries who on the free agent market looks like they could help? looking at the list nobody really makes me think he’d make a big differance. figuring we need cf,dh,3b,2b possible lf/bench bat and 1 or 2 of these get filled by trade.
5 mil for Craig Monroe, if the Twins sign him, not for Morneau.
Mike, was he really all that good with the Tribe? I don’t really remember, to be honest.
Unfortunately, the whole of change of scenery thing is a chronic problem in the front office. That’s their MO: to hopefully sign a D-level free agent who either needs a change of scenery or can something return to previous form.
The Diamondbacks are loaded with minor league OF talent; Carlos Gonzales, Carlos Quinten, Aaron Cunningham, to name a few.
The Rays have the goods too; Ruggiano, Pridie, Gomes (DH)….
Pohlad is a greedy cheap jew and I hope the twins go 20 games below 500 signed goodbye twins now i am an angel fan. at least they know good talent and relize they have to match market prices. The twins are like a trainig camp for real mlb teams.
Michael: OOPS! I’ll have to give you that one!But would you agree that over all those three teams had better over all offensive abilities than the current Twins? I guess the point I’m trying to make is that having the best pitcher in baseball doesn’t gaurantee a world series.I think a balance of pitching and offense in todays game,is the key.Trading Santana however painful,might be the best way for the Twins to regain some of that balance.
Greedy Cheap Jew?
That’s totally uncalled for.
Do you think Morneau would sign a 6 year deal for $80 million?
If they offered it right now? I think he’d consider. It may take 85 to finally get him to sign.
Maybe sprinkle some incentives into it? On the assumption that he WILL get better, the Twins WILL be able to upscale the payroll in a few years and WILL likely resign him if he’s still MVP claibur.
It’s a lot to assume, but I think it’d be a “good faith” start…which seems to be the theme this offseason.
I wouldn’t give him more than $15 mil a year at this point in his career.
That’s why I said I wouldn’t really want Crisp; I don’t feel like he would be that good. As a 25 year old, he hit .300/.345/.465 for the Indians, and then was traded, but his OPS has barely cracked .700 in his 2 seasons with the Red Sox.
i call it like i see it. gooooo boston twins
Just an observation. The ‘07 opening day payroll was about $71 million. With Castillo, Hunter, and White (mercifully) off the books and with Santana, Silva, and Nathan likely to be off the books this winter, that is roughly $43 million gone fromt hat ‘07 opening day payroll. Mauer, Morneau, and Cuddyer all get raises, but that will probably not amount to more than $10 million, if that. That is a lot of money the Pohlads won’t be spending on payroll in ‘08. I know the offseason isn’t over, but who is the club going to realistically go out and get given that the logical thing to do (at least to me) is to rebuild at this point? What troubles me is that when confronted with the next Hunter-Santana-Nathan group of players, the money saved in ‘08 and beyond will not be devoted to re-sgining those players because we can’t exceed 50-52% of revenue (which only continue to increase). In other words, the Pohlads get to have their cake and eat it, too. They line their pockets with money from the fans and then tell the fans they can’t afford to sign good players at market prices. I’m not saying the team should sing players at any cost, but the “we’re poor” excuse only goes so far. Am I missing something?
Todd Anthony - the way they win in 08 if they keep santana is by trading young pitchers for hitting. It is “maddening” that some people can’t see that that is the best way to win a WS - it is much better to have santana and nathan pitching 35-40% of postseason innings than any other combo in baseball. Move 3-4 of our other 9 mlb ready starters for hitting and we’re right back in it.
Now if he WON’T sign - that is another story…
No kidding. Jimmy Bee should be banned from future blogs.
Mike, totally agree…might as well play Tyner or Span in CF then.
Really Jimmy you call it like a bigot? Good thing we have you around.
LEN3: Have to do someting about jimmy bee. That entry cannot remain on this blog and he should be banned.
Pohlad is a greedy cheap jew?!?!?!?!
Yow.
Do people still say/think that kind of stuff?
That’s totally uncalled for.
It’s unfortunately not the worst I’ve seen. You should’ve seen the rhetoric that Howard had to clean out of his blog after Hunter signed with the Angels.
Greedy cheap jew? Great comment. Really adds to the discussion. Thanks.
Some guy on another thread pointed out rather intelligently that Santana will probably re-sign if the Twins keep bargaining because “Latin cultures like to bargain.” I thought that was precious, but this takes the cake.
michael: I don’t even live in Minnesota or the United States and I bet I spend more money in downtown Minneapolis attending Twins games than half the people of Hennepin County. If you’re that opposed to it, then move your butt out of Hennepin County.
I do not really understand the love for Crisp. But maybe I am missing something. Please people. I assume that we are all Twins fans. This arguement that I am a better fan than you and a “real” fan does this or that is so juvenile. We can disagree and still all be fans. I am assuming that we all want the Twins to win but just disagree on how to go about that. The truth is that none of us will have a say in what the Twins do. If you want to boycott then go for it. If you want to buy extra tickets go for it. But as a constant reader of this blog I just start to dismiss the opinion of anyone who wants to talk about what a real fan is because it is so silly. As for the rumored Morneau trade…that would be one of the worst trades ever. Can anyone remember Tommy Herr? This would be even worse.
That is a lot of money the Pohlads won’t be spending on payroll in ‘08. I know the offseason isn’t over, but who is the club going to realistically go out and get given that the logical thing to do (at least to me) is to rebuild at this point?
You’re assuming the money won’t be used to lock up Morneau, Cuddyer, etc long term.
They’ll bring in a few placeholder FAs to fill in what the trades won’t, and that will work for the next few years while they reshuffle.
I don’t think the Twins see guys like Monroe, Clark, or even Crisp as long term solutions. That’s why I sincerely don’t think they’d give up Santana if Crisp was the “focus” of the deal.
as much as i dislike pohlad, the bickering over him and the stadium gets old quick. and that was uncalled for.
Dana: I totally remember Tommy Herr; I believe we acquired him in the Tom Brunansky trade, right?
I appologize for the comment and I should restate it by just reffering to Pohlad as his froogalness. again sorry if i offended anyone
As for the rumored Morneau trade…that would be one of the worst trades ever.
That’s why it ain’t happening. Morneau is part of the “core” they’re going to be rebuilding around. You don’t trade an your MVP firstbaseman when you’re offense is in shambles.
That’s not even “firesale” at that point. It’s just stupid.
I should add that the Morneau -> LAA trade rumors are likely the same types of “rumors” that we see regarding Santana -> NYM for Wright.
Jimmy Bee-
Personally, I’m glad you’re changing your allegiance to another team. We don’t need ignorant, illiterate morons rooting for the Twins. Learn how to spell.
Back to baseball for a second, Coco Crisp has a career .329 obp and hits for little power. Uh, that’s not good. We finished 25th in runs scored last year and lost the second-best offensive player on the team. How exactly will Crisp help the situation?
jimmy bee let me call it like I see it.You are an idiot.There is absolutely no place for that kind of garbage.Go crawl back under your rock.
a pitcher like Johan doesnt come along very often. It would be nice for us fans, and for the kids, to have a hall of famer to follow as they grow up.
The Toriis of the world are replacable. Johan is not.
Morneau WOULD be part of the core if the front office would actually sign him to an extension.
ARGH
Patrick
frugal
One entry found.
frugal
Main Entry: fru·gal
Pronunciation: \?frü-g?l\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin frugalis virtuous, frugal, from frug-, frux fruit, value; akin to Latin frui to enjoy
Date: 1590
: characterized by or reflecting economy in the use of resources
T: the front office has repeatedly said that they look at payroll on a yearly basis, not over a greater period of time. Even if Morneau and Cuddyer are locked up (and I question the wisdom of locking up Cuddyer), that’s not spending the ‘08 savings on them because the club will not go over 52% in future years.
But the Twins shouldn’t be devoting a significant chunk of their payroll to one player, but again, that’s just my opinion. It doesn’t leave a lot of flexibility to add payroll to bolster an anemic lineup.
thrifty
One entry found.
thrifty
Main Entry: thrifty
Pronunciation: \?thrif-t?\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): thrift·i·er; thrift·i·est
Date: 14th century
1 : thriving by industry and frugality : prosperous
2 : growing vigorously
3 : given to or marked by economy and good management
synonyms see sparing
— thrift·i·ly \-t?-l?\ adverb
— thrift·i·ness \-t?-n?s\ noun
Morneau isn’t going anywhere. I have my qualms with management, like we all do, but there’s no way they’re that stupid.
Todd Anthony, it was Herr for Brunansky. What I can’t remember is who took over for Brunansky in RF?
synonyms stingy, close, niggardly, parsimonious, penurious, miserly mean being unwilling or showing unwillingness to share with others. stingy implies a marked lack of generosity . close suggests keeping a tight grip on one’s money and possessions . niggardly implies giving or spending the very smallest amount possible . parsimonious suggests a frugality so extreme as to lead to stinginess . penurious implies niggardliness that gives an appearance of actual poverty . miserly suggests a sordid avariciousness and a morbid pleasure in hoarding .
Pohlad?????
“Patrick says:
November 28th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Morneau isn’t going anywhere. I have my qualms with management, like we all do, but there’s no way they’re that stupid.”
Are you sure about that?!?!?!
Boneyard: I’m not sure either…at that point, the early 90’s ushered in the “dark ages” of the Twins history (although I was a kid growing up in the 80’s and before ‘87, they weren’t much better either).
did Shane Mack take over in 88?
to michael again: Just remember it was us “out of towners” that paid for the Metrodome with hotel tax, rent a car taxes, etc. So maybe it’s your turn to “pony up” since you’ve enjoyed attending games at the Dome for the past 25 years. (if you even go to games) Like I said before, if you are that upset, make a statement and move out of Hennepin County and save your
precious nickels.
Maybe Dana remembers that bit of Twins lore. It did go south shortly after that, didn’t it?
Shawn: Don’t forget about Pedro Munoz as well. He played a lot of RF after that awful Brunansky-Herr trade.
As an out of towner/stater i am happy the new stadium is being built…. if they need 3 cents for every 20 bucks i spend…. keep Johann and they can have it.
It is a valid point on how much we can spend on one player (or two with nathan). I just think over the next two years they are affordable with a 80-85 million payroll and then when the new stadium opens and they need to start shelling out for liriano, morneau and resign mauer the payroll will climb to 110-120 (given increasing mlb revenues as well as the twins revenue).
Munoz was in the mid 90s…. i remember heckling him on my 21st Bday in 94
I think that era was marked by Marty Cordova, Ron Coomer, Pat Meares, Chip Hale, etc, if I’m not mistaken.
Did Shane Mack take over in 88? He may have…if I’m not mistaken.
You know what Shawn? Brunansky only played on ONE WS team; I was under the impression that he was traded in ‘92, but that was Viola who was traded!
I think you’re totally right.
some interesting yankees trade stuff.
http://www.aarongleeman.com/2007_11_25_baseballblog_archive.html#1741797537094257016
he goes over what they have to offer.
miser: a mean grasping person; especially : one who is extremely stingy with money
Bone and Todd: I can’t quite remember the post Bruno RF either but I would guess Bush spent more time out there after the trade.Was Davidson still on that team? The ‘88 team won over 90 games that year, but Oakland started their reign as AL bullies by winning over 100 games that year.
Actually Buff….. i bought a copy of an SI 1992 season preview a couple weeks ago(the one where Puckett is holding the huge bat). They mentioned the Twins bringing Munoz up that year from the minors
Mark Davidson, Doug?
Actually, I do not remember who took over for Bruno. I was thinking Mack but may be way off. I remember going to the Twins games in Seattle after the trade and watching Herr warmup by himself and then not play due to injury. He never seemed to converse with his teammates. I do not think he fit in. Anyway, it was a bad trade (a popular player for someone who did not want to be there) but at the time the Twins did need a 2 bagger.
Yikes.
I think everyone needs to calm down a bit and look at the 2007 season. It’s obvious the Twins have a plethora of very good pitching prospects/MLB ready above average pitchers: Liriano, Garza, Blackburn, Baker, Slowey, Boof!, and the future potential: Duensing, Manship, Pino, Sosa…etc.
The huge problems this season were with offensive production. Morneau was nowhere near his 2006 production, Mauer was plagued with injuries, our DH was consistently sad no matter who was there, uhhh…Nick Punto…, not to mention Tyner, Ford, L-Rod, Casilla (who projects to be a slightly less productive Luis Castillo), etc.
Our offensive prospects are nothing really to get too excited about, either, despite Buscher’s AAA breakout season, and a few nice A/AA players (Brock Peterson, Garrett Guzman, Plouffe). I see us being able to get some first-rate prospects for Santana and/or Nathan, and as much as I love that duo, I could foresee a better 2008 Twins by losing them…if Smith plays it smart. And believe me, I don’t think “smart” is a Santana for Melky and Kennedy trade.
Morneau’s name should almost be rearranged into a No More spelling because after they can not resign him to a 2 year 2 million dollar contract he will be here No More
a pitcher like Johan doesnt come along very often.
That depends on if you think Liriano can come back from his injury.
A quick peek at TwinsCards.com (a great site) reviels That Mark Davidson was on the ‘88 team.John moses also .Moses hit .316 that year and I now remember Kelly playing him often in RF after the trade.
Morneau’s name should almost be rearranged into a No More spelling because after they can not resign him to a 2 year 2 million dollar contract he will be here No More
Just when one hyperbole spewing commenter takes a lunch break, another one slides right in and takes over.
Thanks Doug
Can’t beleieve how tough that was.
21st birthday in ‘94? Shawn, you kid you. Yeah, I don’t think it was Munoz. Or Shane Mack. But I’m getting old and my memory isn’t what it used to be.
Ah, thanks Doug. That was bugging me. Now onto 2008.
Justin “No More” Morneau
I think the Twins should definately trade Nathan. You could notice last year that he was getting hit around more and the organization should get something for him before he declines further. I really hope Bonser goes to the Rays for a quality young position player. Santana should go to the Yankees, or a competitor, for nothing less than Ellsbury or Cano and some strong left handed pitching prospect. Nathan should bring a solid young third base prospect to put in the everyday lineup.
I will never tire of being called a young kid.
We should all do the right thing and just let all of our quality players leave like Hunter did just to be fair to them if we have no intentions on being competitive.
Actually it was Randy Bush who was the primary RF in 1988. See baseball-reference. com for info. He played 108 games in RF.
Kind of sad that with all the interesting trade possibilities going on, this is the one bit of the comments-discussion I found even halfway interesting.
New low in terms of civility and intelligent debate today, imo.
As painful as it is to say, trading Johan and Nathan makes sense. Both will probably have more trade value in July than they do now. At least Johan will. The Twins don’t need to do a complete fire sale like Reusse has suggested. Signing Morneau and Cuddyer to long term contracts NOW before they get to be over valued. JoeC is taking a lot of heat over on his blog for telling the truth, Santana just isn’t going get that much on the tradeing block. Why would any team trade for him this off season give up any tallent, top or otherwise when you could wait and sign him as a free agent. As for his price next year, yes someone will sign him for $20M or more. It will probably be NY or BoSox because their desire to bury each other is so intense.
Crisp is 28, and in his 6 years hit better than Hunter did in his. (I am comparing Hunters first 6 where he actually played full time starting in 99). He may never hit for power, but he could end up a great top of the order guy.
I am just saying he is better than what we have, I am not sure what Boston wants, but he seems like an affordable player who would be a good fit.
did you guys hear how copper wire was invented. A penny fell out of Carl’s pocket and hit the ground. Carl and his son heard that familiar penny hitting the ground kind of noise. They both made a mad dash for the penny grabbing it at the same time. They both had such a tight grip on that lone penny that it actually began stretching into get this copper wire
JimCrikket also comes through! The discussion along this line demonstrates that there are quite a few good, long-term Twins fans contributing to the blog. Nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, you’re correct in your observation on the civility aspect of the blog today.
“What will the drop off from Garza to Santana be? 10 games tops? What will the drop off from Nathan to Neshek be? 4 saves? For around $30million savings I can live with that,”
Well, my public school math says that adds up to 14 games. For the Twins, that would mean a drop from 79-83 to 65-97, a shot at the first overall draft choice and if it turns out to be more than 14 games, perhaps the worst record in baseball.
If that’s the case, just sell everybody and start over. Think of the money Carl can put back in his pocket.
Current management, by completely messing up Hunter, Santana and Nathan and not committing to stars when it made comparative financial sense to do so, has made it impossible to win short-term. They may as well clean house. If you aren’t going to be a player, quit pretending.
lunch time!!!!!!
Egad, do you take into consideration the addition of hitters to the lineup? What do you think the difference will be when the Twins score 4 or 5 instead of 0?
the dropoff from santana is going to be big. I think that is an statement to which we can all agree. But are you saying that Garza is only going to win 5 games next year? That would be the dropoff you are suggesting.
Bobb: Top of the order guys need to be high obp guys, and Crisp has a .329 career obp. The Crispy One couldn’t hit 8th for the Sox. He lost his job. To a rookie. In the playoffs. I like optimism, but to project Crisp as a good top of the order guy may be a bit too much. He plays a good CF, though. And he’s relatively cheap. Sigh.
What did Otis Nixon do to look like he did
THat is still a better OBP than Hunter has had in his career. But that is a valid point. Boston had to replace him, it was a smart move that I wonder if Gardy would have done. But a playoff series doesn’t necessarily make a career. Look at arod.
Look, I am not saying that Coco is the answer. But he is better than the options currently in the organization. Plus he is relatively young. He is fast, and a very good fielder.
I am just saying based on what we have and out current options. He seems to be a decent fit.
IF the Twins can get some hitting in trades For Santana and Nathan, then it works. I have been saying at the same time, if he is the “big pickup” then the twins are in serious trouble.
I’m referring strictly to the math used in the post to which I referred, bobb. If management’s mentality is that we’re going to lose 14 games in the standings, they should clear-cut since a 100-loss team would be reason to.
Track record seems to indicate that the Twins are allergic to bringing in big hitters, so I confess, I’ll need to see them actually come here first.
I mean no aspersion on anyone. And I’m a big Garza fan. I sure as heck don’t want to see the team I support losing 100 games.
Otis Nixon should make a comeback for the twins
egad, I get it now, I misunderstood.
bobb, I hear you, and your points are valid except that Crisp didn’t produce in the regular season, either. My fear is that the front office has no master plan and Crisp will be just one of a collection of such pick ups.
Check out Rosenthal; the Twins are all over this article: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7498162
I read the article which just basically say’s that he should o to a team that wants to compete not like the loser twins
Well, here’s the scoop. If Santana and Nathan go, I’m happy. There’s no way we re-sign either one of them; might as well get some very good young cheap players for them. Not to mention we save $20 million for this year, $40 million if we were to re-sign them. Use that money to get a couple free agents, sign better draftees, use on scouting, sign Morneau, Cuddyer, etc. to extensions and then when 2010 hits, we can re-sign the awesome young guys we have from trades AND have money for free agents. That’s a pretty good plan to me.
[i]does[/i] [b]this[/b] do html?
nope
