Thursday update
Posted on November 29th, 2007 – 12:02 PMBy La Velle
First of all, thanks for helping this blog reach Mike Russo levels yesterday…
I don’t have any big news to report. The Twins remain in contact with a lot of clubs about Johan Santana, and I’m looking into a few things.
The Twins had a few minor signings yesterday that were lost in the Delmon Young hoopla. They re-signed Brian Bass and placed him on the 40-man roster. So the Twins now have two open spaces there. They also have signed righthander R.A. Dickey and lefthander Mariano Gomez and will invite both of them to spring training.
Talked to a scout this morning who really feels that Brendan Harris is more of a second or third baseman than shortstop. He compared him to Mark DeRosa and Bill Mueller. That gets me thinking that Nick Punto is the first string shortstop unless the Twins trade for one.
The same scout said that Delmon Young still needs work in the outfield but has a big arm and, or course, big offensive potential. There’s a chance that Young’s production won’t be far off of what Torii Hunter did last year - .287-28-107.
The Twins could have two first overall draft picks - Young in 2003 and Joe Mauer in 2001 - batting back-to-back in the order next season.
Heard that Torii Hunter has purchased a home in Newport Beach near some Angels teammates — and that he met Lindsay Lohan at a Lakers game. I told him a couple of years ago when the Twins were in town to play the Dodgers that he would be A-List material if he played there. He’s on his way.
Sorry the update isn’t as power-packed as yesterday, but I figured mentioning Lindsay Lohan would make up for it. I’m making calls and will alert you if something comes up.
307 Responses to "Thursday update"
Twins call old friend McPhail and ship Santanna to the Orioles for Bedard and Tejada. Okay maybe not but is there something out there we are over looking? Is there a dark horse in the Santanna Derby? Remember no one was thinking Angels until Torri announced he accepted their deal.
Lindsay Lohan.. haha. Thats always Money!
tk… who are the dark horses???
a team needs to
A. Have money
B. santana has to want to play there
C. have a top line pitching prospect
oh, and I cant believe nobody mentioned Hunter to the Angels..
Think about it.. why would they sign AROD, when they can get Torii for half the price..
im still upset i didnt think about that fit..
but maybe Johan to ATL??
they dont have the pitching to give up.. and would they be able to sign him?
LEN III
What draft picks did the Twins get for Hunter. I know it is a 1st round a sandwich pick but where do those fall? Is it safe to assume that the Twins will have 3 picks in the top 45?
Punto is weak sauce as a would-be SS.
alright.. this is my last comment then i gotta get going for a bit..
As soon as the mets say Jose Reyes is involved in the trade for Johan..
Mr Smith better Say Deal Accepted
cuz Jose reyes alone makes this a very much improved lineup and ball club..
Is it possible to get Lindsey Lohan included in a trade for Johan? She could be the face of the franchise.
I’ve been saying for a while the Mariners are a dark horse for Santana. They can afford him and you’d think Johan and Felix at the top of the rotation has to be pretty tempting. Obviously the deal would start with Adam Jones but they don’t have the pitching that the yanks do. Brandon Morrow is their best young arm. Then you got Clement and Balentin who both have high ceilings.
mh i agree with you with the mets puting reyes in trade with santana that it should be a done deal but i dont see the mets doing that
Didn’t realize that Lohan was out of rehab.
Great work yesterday, LENIII. I would expect that things will continue to be exciting. I’m looking forward to your coverage of the absolutely-going-to-happen other shoe to drop.
when is the baseball draft?
Does it really matter whether Punto plays 2B and Harris SS or the other way around? Regardless, I just don’t see those two likely being the middle of the infield opening day. I guess time will tell.
here in new york this morning, sports radio station WFAN 660AM has been talking about these names from the Mets: David Wright, Carlos Beltran, and obviously Jose Reyes.
Midday show host Evan Roberts called the Twins organization “a baseball travesty” for not resigning Santana.
If Mets are offering Jose Reyes, D Wright and one hot young arm and then I’d do it in a heart beat! B Smith, if you are reading this, please do it.
i say include jacoby ellsbury in the boston deal. i say jose reyes in the mets deal. i say robinson cano in the yankees deal. if none of those names are in the deal i say no deal to all three. in the end one of those teams will do it. the longer this waits out the more impatient the team will get and one of those names will be a twin.
LENIII: Great coverage. Why aren’t we hearing from Gardy?
Lindsay Lohan is too unreliable. Not a good fit for Twins fans.
On the other hand, her mother, a tested veteran, is more like it. She remains in good game shape.
But I don’t think us mid-market Twins fans could afford to payroll someone like her who’d spend most of her time “on the bench”.
Don’t know about her fundamentals either. Can she bunt……I mean, cook!?
Actually, forget about both of them. Too much maintenance. I still go for a good Minnesota gal.
Hunter can live his dreams out; but I choose to stay in the land of good people.
Actually, milky manchester, I’d sign both Santana and Silva…and trade prospects for a decent 3B and CF.
“Russo Levels” is a classic line. Great job yesterday Mr. Neal you broke the story first and I saw just about every major sports website take the credit.
Blogs are taking over the sports universe.
[…] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptThursday update Thursday, November 29th, 2007 First of all, thanks for helping this blog reach Mike Russo levels yesterday… I don’t have any big news to report. The Twins remain in contact with a lot of clubs about Johan Santana, and I’m looking into a few things. The Twins had a few minor signings yesterday that were lost in the Delmon Young hoopla. They re-signed Brian Bass and placed him on the 40-man roster. So the Twins now have two open spaces there. They also have signed righthander […]
La Velle,
What are your thoughts on the minor league reliever the Twins gave up? That guy’s statistics are really impressive. My excitement about the deal cooled off after I looked up his stats. Am I looking too much into his stats (namely his K/IP ratio)?
Ten to one Gardy pleaded with Bill Smith to include Bartlett in the trade to ensure a starting role for Punto.
gardy was probably assured that harris could bunt…maybe we wont have to suffer thru so many 2-1 losses anymore…
judging minor league players is a crap shoot. even with great #’s they often fail when they hit the bigs. how many times does the rookie of the yr fall on his face, a lot. prospects are just that until they spend 2-3 yrs in the bigs to stick. look at kubal, still learning to fit in.
They also have signed righthander R.A. Dickey
Best. Name. Ever.
One reason you have to love the Rays deal: it shows that Bill Smith has no fear. He traded one of his best prospects for a guy who might bust. He probably has every reason to think that Young won’t bust, but still, he might.
Smith risked his job on the first real trade of his career (assuming the Monroe deal turns out to be a non-deal). That shows him to be a man who will formulate a plan and execute it to the best of his ability regardless of risks or popular opinion. I like it.
He traded one of his best prospects for a guy who might bust.
Rays did the same thing. Young is just as much “experienced” as Garza.
Apparently the Rays and the Twins considered Morlan an appropriate equivalent to a healthy Rincon. I think that means he is a pretty good prospect, but probably not top of the line.
Adding Bass to the major league roster is an interesting move. Apparently he has raised his value with his performance in Venezuela. Or is this just an indication of how thin the rotation could be next year?
If the twins can get kershaw and broxton for johan, that would be phenomenal.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/11/29/santana-update-red-sox-yankees-dodgers/
Apparently Hughes isn’t all that excited about possibly leaving NY. Obviously he has no control over what happens, but just interesting to note.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/29/2007-11-29_phil_hughes_wouldnt_trade_yankee_life-1.html
Are you kidding me? There’s no way that Punto should be in anyone’s starting lineup - he is a “UTILITY INFIELDER” and nothing more. Don’t understand why Gardy sticks with this guy. If we could get Reyes or Ellsbury then I say make the deal and let’s get on with the season.
All I can say is lets get baseball players who WANT to play and are not in it for the money. I know if my boss offered me a raise it would be hard but really think about it if your team is a winner and works hard what else you do you want. People look at money but you know what all these players have more money than they will ever need right now. As far as torrii I dont blame him because he is going to a great organization who takes risks and has a great manager. I think he would of stayed in minnesota before NY because if you read into it was NOT all about money but where the organization direction. I personally think Castillo trade last year put a tamper on a lot of players and giving up attitude. I know we dont have money but we can not give up. If you ask any former players that left I bet they wished they would of thought twice. Why is this all about money.
LENIII: Nice numbers yesterday. Guess there is still some interest in Twins baseball despite the loss of Torii.
Jama: Jim Callis at Baseball America shows the current draft picks for the Twins are #14 (their own), #27 (Angels first round) and #31 (first of the supplemental picks)
JimCrikket: Reports I have seen also say that Harris doesn’t have the range to be a regular shortstop. Depending on how things shake out after Santana and Nathan deals I’d look at Harris as a possible starter at second at best and a huge upgrade over L-Rod as a utility/bench guy at worst. I suspect we don’t currently have next year’s shortstop on the roster yet (Lowrie? Reyes?)
Hey LEN!!!: Morlan projected to be the Twins closer of the future, maybe as early as 2009. A kid whose fastball could touch triple digits. He still has a way to go and maybe he’ll never pan out, but, this was the sad part of the Young deal - to go from Rincon to Morlan was truly a blow. Still overall a positive, just not nearly as good as it would have been if Juan was gone.
I have the feeling that it will be the Yankees that are going to take this deal. . . but that they will have to include Cano or Chamberlain to get it done. I don’t think the Ellsbury ban will last in Boston, but the Twins are in the catbird seat playing BOS against NYY. They can take an Ellsbury, Lester, Lowrie offer and tell the Yanks its Cano and Chamberlain or you guys will have to face Beckett, Santana, Matsuzaka, Bucholz, and Wakefield (17 game winner last year, I think) for the near future. Yanks can’t let that happen.
From Newsday:
“Indications are the Yankees are thinking along the same lines. An organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that’s what it takes. In that case, the Yankees would pursue Rowand to replace him in center.”
Basically, the crux of the article consisted of the Yankees’ desire to keep Santana from Boston.
I don’t think that Bill Smith is going to accept anything less than the best for Mr. Santana, and he does not have to. So if the BoSox, Yanks and Mets continue with their refusal to part with their best when they would be getting one of the best ever, then Smith can look to LA or just take his prized pitcher off the table and shoot for it all next year and let the Sox or Yanks spend way too much $ picking up Santana as a FA.
Where’s Gardy? Probably grumbling about the young players Smith has acquired for him and hiding LNP somewhere so that Smith can’t trade his best little buddy. I can just see Gardy now with DYoung next year - benching him because he makes some youngster mistake instead of working with him and inserting Jason Tyner into the lineup in Young’s place. Please Bill, can’t we trade Gardy??
“Please Bill, can’t we trade Gardy??”
God, no kidding…I’m assuming that’s probably not popular sentiment though.
Maybe it’s the Hardware Hank commercial with his wife, but he bugs me…
Let the bidding begin in earnest. I’m just not sold on Cabrera as a long term solution in CF, though. Still, if the Yanks really are ready to “throw in” Kennedy and Hughes in the deal, that ain’t a half bad haul. Will Boston step up its bid?
Please Bill, can’t we trade Gardy??
Can we stop getting worked up over scenarios we’ve made up?
These include:
1) Pohald isn’t going to sign Young, Morneau, Cuddyer, etc once they get good.
2) Crappy returns on the Santana trade.
3) Gardy doing some stupid benching involving Young or Cano or etc…
Those kinds of things.
Basically, the crux of the article consisted of the Yankees’ desire to keep Santana from Boston.
If Bill Smith and the Twins have gotten the Yankees thinking that way…they’ve got them right where they want them.
Cano or Ellsbury may not be too far behind.
I’m obviously not “dialed in” to the inner workings of an MLB organization, but…
what the hell is taking so long? I’m assuming the clubs have made their offers, so for crying out loud, choose one, and let’s end this. 
I wouldn’t go as far as thinking Gardy will ever bench Young for Tyner (I think it was a joke anyways), but he certainly has shown how much he prefers veterans, one example being Punto and L-Rod getting starts over Buscher and Casilla near the end of this past season when the Twins were clearly out of the playoff hunt.
“Cano or Ellsbury may not be too far behind.”
Evidently, we’re “hung up on Ellsbury” according to Red Sox officials (rolling eyes).
Just a random thought: If Santana and Nathan do get traded and if the Twins don’t take on a contract in the trades or via FA, that means Punto will be the 4th highest paid guy on the team as the roster is currently constituted. Morneau, Mauer, and Cuddyer are the only guys currently sure to make more Am I missing someone? This should make Gardy happy and ensure Punto gets his 500 AB. Still, yesterday’s trade gives me hope about the team’s direction.
I think they’re confusing Johan with Shawn Chacon, for crying out loud.
BY: I agree with you, yesterday’s trade does provide a little bit of optimism. But in one man’s opinion, this team has a ways to go (trading Johan and Nathan, signing Morneau to a deal, finding a 3B and CF, and maybe even a SS).
Actually, Todd Anthony, I think you’re just going to have to wait at least another 5-7 days. Hopefully the winter meetings will ramp up the bidding. Maybe for Nathan, too.
If the Twins can get Hughes and Kennedy what are the chances that they could flip Kennedy for a 3rd baseman?
Another scenario that I think might work is packaging Cuddyer and Santana together and see what the Dodgers would be willing to give up. They have 2 young OF’s and a LaRoche as a 3rd base prospect. Add to that the Twins could ask for one of their top pitching prospects, Kershaw (sp). If you package those 2 guys toghether you save more money and you can increase what you are asking for.
Confusing Johan w/ Shawn Chacon? Heh-heh.
Oh T, make no mistake about, I’d be willing to bet Gardy benches D. Young at least once this year for attitude or lack of running out agrounder or some other young players mistake.
I’m not saying I guarantee it will happen, but I’d be happy to wager on it. I don’t see why we shoudl get worked up about it though, it will probably be pretty entertaining.
just one guy’s opinion, but I would like to see us get Hughes and Kennedy…
God almighty, I’m turning into Terry Ryan (obsessed with hording and stockpiling pitching).
stop the gardy bashing…pleeeze…
im betting one of gardys biggest p/peeves is having a major league roster with nobody capable of laying down a sacrifice bunt when needed …just think back to last year …how many times…
nathan to milwaukee…..what have they got, that we would like in return…i hear thats the latest rumor…
Here is a link to the latest according to ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3133598
If the Yanks are offering Hughes, Kennedy, and Cabrera, that is a good deal (and I don’t even like Cabrera). I don’t think we should just jump on it right away. Wait a little longer and see if the Yanks or another team offer something more.
Here’s another question: Is anyone desperate enough to give us something decent for the Boofeteria?
If Gardy wanted guys who could lay down a bunt, why did he keep playing Nick Punto?
LEN3, is there going to be a press confrence with Young?
Does anyone remember the last time, or only time there was a Twins press confrence where a new player held up their new Twins jersey with their name newly sewn on the back? Maybe Paul Molitor?
Yes, I know…patience. It’s not a strong suit of mine…thank God I’m not running this organization.
You’re right Dustin. It would be cool to see a formal introduction for Delmon.
I certainly hope Gardy would bench players who don’t run out grounder or has a bad attitude. In the world of primadonna professional athletes, the Twins are a bastion of hard work and palying old school baseball. WHat is wrong with that? I’d rather watch a team of hard workers make the world series than a bunch of jerks win the world series.
Waiting on this is a bit like waiting on Christmas morning when you were a kid. What kind of goodies will Santana Claus bring us?
Maybe we could have traded Hunter for Lohan?
It sounds as if Boston is in the lead for Santana and the centerfielder we would be getting would be Coco Crisp…Personally, I do not want Crisp’s $4 Million dollar contract plus he’s not good. If I was Billy Smith I would make sure not to do a deal with Boston unless Jacoby Ellsbury is included. That kid is the real deal and he has MN TWINS written all over him.
I’m assuming the clubs have made their offers, so for crying out loud, choose one, and let’s end this.
It’s a giant game of chicken. The Twins want to make Boston and New York sweat to see who cracks first.
I don’t really like the Red Sox deal, at least not at this point. If the Sox aren’t offering up Buchholz instead of Lester or Ellsbury instead of Crisp, then at least take more time to see what else is out there before doing this deal. I would only want to have this one done as a last resort.
last resort is exactly right…the idea of us taking Coco Crisp in a package for Johan is absolutely nauseating.
Or Lester and his bloated 4.68 ERA! Are you kidding me? Johan is the best pitcher in baseball, I think we need to more than reasonable by asking for a stud like Hughes and Cano…that’s the reality Johan is worth. If the Red Sox offer Lester and Coco Crisp I’d rather keep Johan for a run in 2008 with the Liriano/Santana combo and let him walk, collecting two high frist round picks.
Are the Twins nuts? I live in St Pete and Delmon Young was nothing but a cancer on the Devil Rays. He is a thug and has NO RESPECT for management. He use to cuss the Rays manager out on a regualar basis!! Why the hell would the Twins let a class act like Torii Hunter go to get trash like this???? Money once again. I suppose we can expect to see Santana, the best pitcher in baseball go by the same way? what to tick off the fans or save money? Good luck thinking you can put Young in Center field and expect him live up to anything. His attitude is NOT going to fly up in Minnesota with the fans. Unless he gets a good butt kicking this winter, I see no chance of this loser lasting a month…..but thanks for getting him out of St Pete…
HUH WHAT THE CRUD CO CO CRUSTY AND JOHN MOLLESTER
Crisp and Lester as the centerpieces for Santana? That is ridiculous! At minimum, it should be Ellsbury and Buchholz plus prospects. The Yanks will step up knowing they can’t compete if the Sox get Santana. I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see Hughes plus Cano or Chamberlain and prospects.
Evidently, we’re “hung up on Ellsbury” according to Red Sox officials (rolling eyes)
There’s nothing wrong at this point in the game with having a demand. There’s PLENTY of time to make Boston and NY sweat over it.
is there going to be a press confrence with Young?
I’m going to guess that the Twins are going to wait to annouce the new Twins until they’ve wrapped everything up. It’d be fun to have a lineup of guys with Young, maybe Hughes or Bucholtz….
*looks around*
And Rowand.
*runs*
JUST READ THAT THE RED SOX ARE WILLING TO OFFER ELLSBURY, LESTER, OR BUKHOLTZ BUT NOT A COMBINATION OF THEM. I WOULD TAKE ELLSBURY AND WHATEVER ELSE THEY OFFER AND RUN. ELLSBURY IS GONNA BE ONE OF THE BEST OUTFIELDERS IN BASEBALL. A YOUNG JOHNNY DAMON IN HIS PRIME. I WOULD RATHER SEE ELLSBURY THAN CANO OR REYES.
it would seem like good business to weigh each offer research all the players then decide and not just panic and make a possibly big mistake. one thing for sure a lot of people won’t like it no matter what we get.
nice to see some locals posting on the boston site.
anybody know coco’s #’s compared to melky? does everyone think ellebury is a sure bet once he goes through the league a couple times?
JUST READ THAT THE RED SOX ARE WILLING TO OFFER ELLSBURY, LESTER, OR BUKHOLTZ BUT NOT A COMBINATION OF THEM.
Not enough. Ellsbury and prospects does not equal Santana.
CO CO CRISP HUH HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH JOHN MO-LESTER HUUUUUUUUUH PLEASE WHOEVER IS DOING THE NEGOTIATING PLEASE GET THEM A UA TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SOBER. Why does it seem whatever we ask for we are shot down for and offered garbage just keep Santana
The red sox deal keeps popping up..
Crisp, Lowrie, Lester, and a 4th player ?? masterson perhaps..
alright.. maybe the twins know something about lester.. perhaps they like him over bucholtz?? doesnt make sense to me.. we have a dominant lefty in Liriano(if he is healthy) and we dont have a dominant righty.. keep in mind that Perkins could perhaps be put into the rotation as well.. so thats two lefties..
i dont like this deal much tho..
id rather have a young melky then an old coco. id rather have a young righty in hughes then lester..
but thats just me
Trading Santana to the Red Sox for four mediocre players, Crisp, Lowrie, Lester and Bowden, is a terrible trade. You win championships with quality, not quantity. None of those guys has HOF upside and that’s what you want in exchange for a HOF quality player like Santana. The Twins would almost be better off with the draft choices.
I THINK IT EQUALLS SANTANA CUZ WHY LOSE HIM AND GET JUST DRAFT PICKS? THEY DID THAT WITH HUNTER, ETC. I KEEP READING THAT THEY HAVE LEARNED THEIR LESSON BY LETTING PLAYERS WALK AWAY. TEAMS ARE WILLING TO GIVE UP GOOD PLAYERS AND PAY ONE HELL OF A SALARY. WE ALL KNOW THAT JOHAN ISN’T STAYING HERE THAT IS FOR DAMN SURE.
jimmy bee, please lay off the caps lock. It makes it hard to read.
I don’t have anything against Lester being part of the package. He’s young and he’s good and has shown he won’t wilt under pressure. Bucholz projects to be better, but Lester had the cancer set back and still has a huge upside. That being said, Crisp for Boof sounds okay, but as part of a package for Santana? Nope, nope, nope. Crisp is not good.
Whatever doesn’t make sense is what they will economically choose
Crisp sucks
The red sox deal keeps popping up…
Likely because it heavily skews towards Boston. There’s nothing in there the Twins truly want, it seems like Boston’s assuming we’re their farm club and just throwing bodies at us.
Bill Smith is smart to be taking his time. If you can talk the Sox up to four guys who aren’t worth it, you can start talking about what winnowing it down to TWO that are actually worth it.
“Crisp, AND Lester, AND Mattheson AND …. Yeesh. We’d be happy with just Bucholz and Ellsbury.”
That kinda thing.
Jose reyes enough said if we can get him trade santana.
Whatever doesn’t make sense is what they will economically choose
What about last night’s trade is not sinking in?
Someone’s going to blink. We need to demand the likes of Ellsbury, Buchholtz, Cano, Chamberlain, Reyes, or whomever we want in a deal. We’re the ones in a position to say NO DEAL. If we let these teams start picturing Johan in the other uniform, they’ll cave.
I don’t want to see a formal press conference for a 21-year-old kid who hasn’t done anything yet.
22
The suggestion that the Yankees might go after Rowand if they traded Cabrera is classic. Rowand sure isn’t going to sign with the Twins, and kill a deal for Cabrera, if the Yankees might be waiting in the wings.
is everybody just getting desperate and willing to take anyone. Santana is theeeeee best pitcher in baseball. The twins are being bullied and just get what you want or go home and sign Santana for the 1-2 punch of LIriano, Santana
Hmm, relative consensus on a blog? Wow. Ellsbury or bust is what it seems like us bloggers are telling the Sox. Nono to Coco.
T likes to steal other peoples comments because he can not think up any by himself
nono to coco i agree
T likes to steal other peoples comments because he can not think up any by himself
Wow, thanks for the personal attack. I appreciate it also being writen in mixedcase. Easier on the eyes.
Sorry if I feel that quoting the post is a good way to make sure the post is in context. I’d hate to call out a comment as being a bit crazy only to have it misdirected to the wrong person.
I have my opinion.
The Twins need to get a good young pitcher if they deal Santana, and then get the best available hitters that are offered. (My personal order)
1) Cano
2) Ellsbury
3) Cabrera
That’s of course depending on which pitcher they come packaged with.
I also would KILL to see Rowand in a Twins uni, and have felt that way since he hit the market.
from heyman at si:
……This isn’t poor Smith’s fault, of course. He is just the latest exec entrusted to protect the multibillion-dollar fortune of miserly owner Carl Pohlad, who is 92 years old and appears to be putting his team on a new 10-year plan after recently getting a near-$400 million subsidy from the taxpayers of Hennepin County for the new stadium he’s sought for years.
By they time the Twins move in to their new park, they may look like an expansion team — they already are looking like Tampa Bay Devil Rays North. They’ve lost Torii Hunter to free agency and are reportedly shopping star closer Joe Nathan in what’s starting to look like a one-team dispersal draft…….
sounds like what’s on this blog some days!
Heyman’s first name wouldn’t happen to be “Kevin”…would it?
If the Red Sox get Santana without having to give up two of the big three then Joe C was right, there isn’t going to be a big haul for Santana.
I’d rather have just Melky/Hughes than the four names being mentioned now from the Red Sox.
Lester or Buchholz? I dunno… I guess I’m willing to say the Twins scouting people probably are better able to distinguish who they’re better off with than I am.
But yeah… count me in the consensus that says there’s no Santana deal with Boston that doesn’t bring Ellsbury.
And not for nothing… but if I were the Boston GM and I was DEAD SERIOUS that Ellsbury was NOT available in this deal and never would be… I’d have delt Crisp to someone else by now and removed any doubt. The fact that Crisp is still around tells me Ellsbury can be had.
Anyone ever wonder if Torii left because 95% of Minnesotans still can’t spell his name right?
The circumstances of the Santana trade is similar to those of the Roger Clemens trade from Toronto to the Yankees in the postseason of 1998. In that trade, Toronto got:
Homer Bush (after he had a 134 OPS+ rookie season),
Graeme Lloyd (after a ridiculous season with 1.79 ERA, 0.85 WHIP and 264 ERA+),
and David Wells (after his 18-4 season).
What Santana fetches should be comparable. Too long to list comparable scenarios for suitor here, but have a look here
if interested…
As far as the Mets rumors and what WFAN listeners say go, Wright is untouchable, Beltran is way too expensive, but Reyes and prospects might actually be an option, esp. if the Twins ship Boof and Rincon over there (who actually might be fine in the NL)
Why dont we ask for Ellsbury? He would be better than Milkey. all though I would rather get the offer from the Yankees. Hughes will be an elite sp and Cabrera can play CF would solve some of the areas of issue. Jackson would be a player that in a year or two would be a plus to have on the big league club.
I’m not sold on Rowand offensively. A lot of execs who know a lot more than I do apparently feel the same way. One good year. See, Gary Mathews Jr. If you’re gonna pay a guy in excess of $50 million . . .. Am I starting to sound like TR? Sorry.
Yeah, T, I guess Cabrera would be #3, but he’s a long way from the other 2 in my opinion. Cano can rake and Ellsbury is a legit top of the order guy. Melky is, well, a barely .700 ops. True, 1,000 career AB’s is a small sample size, but he certainly doesn’t have the promise of Cano or Young. Ellsbury has a much shorter resume, but the kid is dynamic. I think he’s the real deal.
i guess i hate the red sox trade.. specially if we dont get ellsbury or bucholtz..
im kinda disappointed that its been reported what the sox are willing to give up.. heck. the yanks look at those 4 players and laugh.. it doesnt drive the yanks offer up any..
lester masterson lowrie coco for johan?
im sure the yanks are thinking.. oh yea.. lets throw joba in.. NO, they are not.. they are saying.. lets throw a AA shortstop at ya.. melky, hughes, AA SS and a A ball pitcher..
thats crap.. i dont think Johan’s price is getting driven up..
Maybe the twins should announce what the yanks are offering..
JimCrikket: good observation on the Crisp/Ellsbury availability. You may very well be right; I suspect you are.
“Indications are the Yankees are thinking along the same lines. An organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that’s what it takes. In that case, the Yankees would pursue Rowand to replace him in center.”
If that is true, the Twins would be wise to accept the deal, unless of course BOS is willing to beat it.
But in Hughes and Kennedy, they would acquire two very talented young pitchers (it would be very nearly, but not quite the equivalent of getting both Buchholz and Lester from BOS)
Cabrera, I’m not very high on him, but we could always trade him. He’s a better 4th OF option than Pridie, though.
Problem with The mets giving up Reyes is that the Twins gave up Barlett..
It doesnt mean if the twins had Barlett that the mets say OK we will trade Reyes..
But barlett is a Viable option at short instead of what the mets will be left with if they trade Reyes..
Hmmm, maybe the mets are talking to the White Sox about Uribe?!?!?
if the mets trade for Uribe, then ya know they are Johnny BallGame for throwing Reyes in for Johan
Young may have all the tools to be great baseball player but i am wondering if we did’t really get a head case that will make for a bad club house for the coming year. Gardenhire may need more money this year trying to keep club house and team going in right direction. Also trading and loss of free agents or soon to be free agents goes against having good team were loosing defense up the middle and giving up pitching. We may score more runs this year but we probably will giving up twice as many runs so our record and divisional standing will be probably fighting not to be at the bottom of the division. It’s going to be long year of baseball and maybe Vikings with another draft will be competitive team so we won’t have to think about the Twins
to use a phrase, i think coined by one of the 3 t’s, lots of “uninformed speculation”, sources are usually a smoke screen to not show your hand and of course it would be impossible to think a gm may stretch the truth.
but it is entertaining to have something to speculate about.
mh, stick with your original thought. I think the fact that Bartlett is gone killed whatever small chance we had to get Reyes. I think the Mets are actually serious about not putting him on the block.
Dave,
Cabrera will roam center field for the Twins for Years to come.. Sure he may not hit a bunch of HR’s..
But when has a player gone from NY to minnesota? Ruben Sierra?
heck, the milk man will probably flurish in minnesota.. id pay money to watch the kid.. he isnt nothing great.. but he plays ball
Do half you guys take the time to look up info on the players that are being named in these trades, I mean if you haven’t heard of them they must be bad.
here are 23year old ss Lowries stats:
Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
POR EAS .297 93 337 61 100 31 7 8 49 169 65 58 5 3 .410 .501 .911
PAW INT .300 40 160 21 48 16 1 5 21 81 12 33 0 1 .356 .506 .862
Minors .298 133 497 82 148 47 8 13 70 250 77 91 5 4 .393 .503 .896
The kid can flat out hit and he has good power for a SS. Do I want Crisp no but if I can get a top prospect and a Starting pitcher than it not to awful of a trade. Lets face it Crisp is better than any of the CF on our team or in our System and he would only be here for 2 years and Lester is a good pitcher a #1 no but a good #2 or a great #3. Also the team that trades for Santana has to sign him to a contract for around 130-150 million, because they only get him for 1 year had the Twins offered Santana last year or at the deadline you could have gotten Reyes or Cano. Why do all of the Twins fans feel that our guys are worth so much more than the other teams guys. I agree Santana is worth alot but guys like Boof are not.
By the way I am a Twins fan and if it were up to me I would be talking to LA teams for Kemp,LaRoche and a Pitcher or Wood,Willits and Santana/Weaver
why don’t we just keep Santana. What is the real reason why we would ever want to get rid of Santana. Hmmmm. I need more input on why you the fans would get rid of the most dominant pitcher in all of baseball.
I get yelled at everytime I bring up his “Royal Cheapness”
David, I think it’s safe to say the Twins ARE talking to the LA teams about deals involving those particular players and others. It’s just you don’t generally see their GMs negotiating in the media the way the Eastern Seaboard teams do.
You know why teams like Boston, New York & Angels win World Series is because they spend money. The next time the Twins will even come close to smelling a world series is when they get there heads out of there @#!@#$’s
and quit being so Che_ _ !!!!!!
jimmy bee: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
If the twins can’t hang on to him after this year then what’s the point? Nobody wants to say goodbye to Santana but it will happen either way, at least this way we will get something in return, instead of him leaving as a free agent.
What I don’t understand is why are the Twins seemingly willing to give up one of the best pitchers of the last decade for pretty much a number 2 or 3 starter at BEST and a washed up CF who can field but cant hit…i would much rather they try and work out a package to get a proven hitter or a proven SP, or at least a guy who has the possibility of being really good, i personally just dont see Lester as being that guy, i see Buckholtz being that guy more than Lester…that being said, i would love it if they can work out a deal to get one of the young proven hitters from the Mets, Coco Crisp and Melky Cabrera do absolutely NOTHING for me, i would much rather get a Robinson Cano or a Jacoby Ellsbury in return…I want a guy who can fill a hole to the brim, not a guy who can just sort of make the hole a little smaller, frankly, i want a guy that takes Nick Punto out of a starting spot for good, not someone who in the long run will have to freaking battle with him for a starting spot…no more guys who have to battle for a position, i want someone in return who will TAKE that position as soon as that trade is completed, no more guys getting invites to Spring Training, no more guys being added to the 40-man roster, I want a guy who is a bonified STARTER at his position, so yeah, a deal with the Mets for Wright or Reyes would be IDEAL (i have heard both players floating around in rumors)
thank you gobbledygookguy
Coco Crisp is the Jason Bartlett of outfielders. Barely competent nothing more.
JimCricket, I agree with you, I just wish people could understand that the Twins are not in the greats position with Santana: 1 year contract and than FA wants hight $$$ contract and knows the Twins will not sign him, and other teams know this as well. So I would say Santana and any team that wants him have more going for them than the twins have going for them. Not to mention if Santana hits the free agent market all the teams have to give up is money and keep their players, and as the NY beat writer said no problem to sign him for 150 million.
Ooh, dave, I think you’re being kind to The Crispy One.
The probelm with other teams waiting for Santana to hit the market is that he will cost a lot more with other teams in the bidding than what he will cost ina 72 hour neogtiating period. See, e.g., Torii Hunter getting swept off his feet by a higher than expected offer. If Santana hits the market, the Mets and Yankees (maybe others) will enter a bidding war of epic proportions. Think 7/$175. Million, of course. This winter, he may go for as “little” as 6/$126. Is $50 million worth a few prospects, albeit blue chippers? Depends on the organization, I suppose. It’s a gamble, either way.
David, you’re right about the Lowrie kid. He can hit and the Sox are actually very high on him, although he may not be the best defensively. What if the deal was Ellsbury and Lowrie and one or two of the “lesser” pitching propsects being kicked around? How would everyone feel about that?
The kid can flat out hit and he has good power for a SS.
But he isn’t really a major league shortstop. Hes a guy who plays one in the minor leagues. And his bat at third base is at best barely adequate and really suspect.
Lets face it Crisp is better than any of the CF on our team or in our System
So was Pridie - the idea that you trade away Santana for mediocre players to fill up the roster is exactly what I object to.
Lester is a good pitcher a #1 no but a good #2 or a great #3.
Again, that’s his upside - a mediocre starter.
I agree Santana is worth alot but guys like Boof are not.
And I don’t think trading Santana for 4 Boofs is the way to build a contending team. Bonser’s upside is a number two or three starter. Lester may be no better.
Or, dave, is it that you were just being unduly harsh on Bartlett? Hmm.
I’ve been away a while - nasty thing called work gets in the way, I don’t know how some of you guys (T, I am thinking of you) can post so much - and just want to clarify that “Kay” of St. Pete is not this Kay of MN.
My comment about Gardy benching Young for Tyner was half in jest, half serious. You don’t think he would do it after his week long benching of Casilla late last year in favor of LNP? As someone else noted, he benched many youngsters in favor of his most treasured non-producing vets late last season after we were out of it - exactly the time when you should be giving the youngsters some experience.
Enough about that, I love the game of chicken that Smith is forcing the Sox and Yanks to play - can’t wait to see what happens next!
TT, a “good #2″ is not mediocre. Lester has a higher upside than mediocre. Even if Lowrie is a 3B and his bat is “barely adequate,” that is still a huge, gargantuan, colossal [insert your hyperbolic adjective of choice here] upgrade over Nick Freakn’ Punto. Geez.
As is after the Delmon Young & Craig Monroe trades, the current Twins’ payroll is at $71 million. I do not see it going for more that $75 million and Morneau’s arbitration will take care of that.
Trading, Santana, Rincon, Punto, Nathan, Reyes and Bonser and cutting Monroe opens up about $25 after Morneau’s arbitation increase… This team lacks experienced leadership in the clubhouse and continuity…Use $5 mill of the excess to sign Morneau to a long term deal and with the rest try to pry someone like Scott Rolen from the Cardinals (Boof, Punto and Rincon or Reyes would potentially do it) to fill the 3B hole, get a CF and a starter (plus prospects) for Santana, get some experienced bats and arms for Nathan, sign a free agent or too (Bradley, Barret, Lamb) with the left over $12 million and you got a competitive team…
Kay, we’re lazy, no good bums with cake jobs (or no jobs).
DONT TRADE JOHAN TO THE RED SOX!!!! why would we want to help the defending world series champs get even better???
LEN3 is supposed to be on KFAN soon.
how soon is LEN3 supposed to be on?
Is KFAN streamed online anywhere? I don’t live in the Minnesota area.
A package of Boofeteria, LNP, Roid Rincon, and Reyes would get us an A ball prosepct. But only that because Reyes has some value. If we agreed to pay LNP’s salary and Rincon’s as well, we might get a little more. Those guys have no positive value on the trade market. I’m being a little facetious, but not much.
Um, because if they gave us Ellsbury it would help the Twins to be a better team?
Boneyard - that’s ok, I am glad to see that there is a community of passionate Twins’ fans willing to help LIII’s column give Russo’s a run for his money for once.
mike…
http://www.kfan.com
nathan for hank blalock?
or nathan for kinsler?
or nathan micheal young??
Boneyard,
You are right about the bidding war but to the teams doing the bidding I do not htink it would matter. I’m not hight on Crisp I just think he would fill the void for now as long as the other parts helped us for the long term.
If it was for Lowrie,Ellsbury and lesser pitching prospects I’d do it now, the problem is the Yankees and the Red Sox have the money for a bidding war so they do not have to give up 2 top propects.
i would take Michael Young, MUCH more consistent, but i highly doubt the rangers would trade one of their stars, but then again they did trade Mark Teixiera…
nathan for Blalock would be a good deal,
Why do people think you could get anything of value for Boof,Rincon,Punto these players are average at best Punt and Rincon are below average. Learn from the garza trade you have to give value to get value. Rolen is a injury prone over the hill vet that people have been saying we need to signing and now people want us to sign him. I just do not get some of you guys.
Great post twinsfan32. Are we stupid? Giving the best pitcher in the world to an AL team that is already loaded (sox or yanks)? Kiss the series goodbye for 5 years. Minaya has got to get creative with a 3 way trade and get us reyes and some other top starting prospect from another team. I live in NY too - so then I can continue to root for santana! But never with the yanks.
Should say over the hill vet that we need to stop signing
I hope you’re wrong about the prospects, David. The next week or so will tell. If the deal was Lowrie/Elssbury/lesser pitching prosect, I’d pull the trigger, too.
I don’t know how some of you guys (T, I am thinking of you) can post so much
I am able to get my work done.
ESPN.com is reporting, unfortunately, that the Twins have a “framework” for a four player deal with the BoSox. Though they emphasize it’s not final (so maybe just more rampant speculation, perhaps?), they say it is Coco and Lester
If Santana has to go, I will say again I would love to see the Cubs swing something. It would be nice to hop on the L, go over to Wrigley, and watch Santana mow down those poor NL teams. Plus I always liked watching Johan hit.
Posada for the Yanks has gone on record saying that he wants Santana to pitch for the Yankees next year. I think we should just keep playing one team against the other until they give us so many good players that we can afford to let Nick Punto sit on the bench - sarcasm intended.
mh, I agree with you… trade nathan for young, blalock or kinsler… I highly doubt texas would get rid of young but I would love to see Kinsler in a twins uniform, Blalock would be o.k. too but they would have to give us a prospect along with blalock… Kinsler would be a great addition.. he doesn’t have the best average but 20-25 homers from the 2nd base position for Minnesota would be GREAT! plus he is a righty hitter which we need!
We trade Santana for the best we can get. Regardless of who it is.
David
I still think you’re underestimating the market forces here. What are the Red Sox willing to part with in order to keep the Yankees from having the best pitcher in baseball? Or the Yankees to keep RSox from having one of the best pitching rotations in recent memory. They have proven time and time again they will drive up prices to play keep away. Red Sox trading for Gagne. Or their bid on DiceK. It was 40% higher than the next bid (the Mets) just to make sure they won it. With Santana you can and should play the teams off each other.
DONT SETTLE!!!!
If I were santana I would go to red soxs, angels a TEAM. If he or anyone wants to go to NY they are GREEDY. With NY payroll they should win every year. I am happy for Joe Torre! We need salary cap! Really how much money do these people need. Come on A-rod makes 250000 in ONE game. There maybe no 5 people together on this blog making that all together. WHY, WHY WHY WHY
Lester has a higher upside than mediocre
Lester has the upside of a half dozen Twins prospects who are close to ready. There is nothing wrong with trading for him as part of a package.
Even if Lowrie is a 3B and his bat is “barely adequate,” that is still a huge, gargantuan, colossal [insert your hyperbolic adjective of choice here] upgrade over Nick Freakn’ Punto. Geez.
And that is the kind of thinking that creates mediocre teams. Who cares if he is better than Punto? We aren’t trading away a surplus reliever like Romero or a an bat off the bench like Buchanan. You don’t trade the best pitcher in baseball for mediocre players who happen to fill a hole you have next season.
Think about the yankees pitching: Pettitte may retire, Clemens has, Mussina is washed up, their middle relief really struggled all year…they were bailed out by the offense a lot.
So if they don’t get Johan, they’ll really have to scramble to get some help to go alongside the kids..otherwise, I expect the youngsters to wear down with little backup in NYY next year.
Dont mention clemens on this page I may puke if I hear that he may or may not retire. Great pitcher but come on he is losing a lot of respect doing what he is doing.
I worry that teams think they can get a high quality pitcher from Oakland for less than it would take to get Santana. The only reason for the Yankees or the Red Sox to pay full price is to prevent the other from getting him. No other teams have that incentive.
So, TT, draft picks are better than Lowrie and Lester plus? I don’t think so. But it’s a moot point because I think the offer will get better, it’s just that Joe C may have been more right than wrong. Time will tell. Just b/c Johan is the best doesn’t mean we will get comparable value for him. That’s why I’ve always believed it’s better to sign him if the club would go above 52% of revenues. However, the club going above 52% is a pipe dream, so let’s get the best deal we can. We probably won’t get 3 All-Stars for Santana. We may not get 3 guys who turn out to be above average major leaguers. So what would you have the team do? Just because we want a good 3B, a good Cf, and a good SP out of the deal doesn’t mean that’s what we’ll get. If we upgrade, particularly with young guys, that’s great. I agree that mediocre Twins teams have been built with an “aim low” philosphy. Batista, White, Cirillo, etc. However, Lowrie and Lester hardly fit that mold. Crisp does, but not the other 2.
Are the Sox the frontrunners for Santana?
The latest rumor involving the Red Sox and Santana is the juiciest yet. According to a report from Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press (who sources “a little birdie”) on Thursday, the Sox are now the frontrunners to land Santana as part of a trade package that does not include either Jacoby Ellsbury or Clay Buchholz. According to Walters, the Red Sox would receive Santana in exchange for Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, and minor league prospects Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson, both of who rank among Boston’s top young talent. More from Walters: “Before a deal could be made, the Red Sox would have to have time to negotiate a contract extension with Santana, 28, who can become a free agent after next season and could have a market value as high as $150 million over six years.”
Just want to throw this out there for a FA signing.
How would Sammy Sosa look for a DH.
If we could sign him for a incentive based contract.
Sammy Sosa wants 8 mill to play again.
I really hope Johan doesn’t go to Bean town. I’m getting pretty sick of sending our talented Minnesota athletes to Boston. As much as I hate the Yankees, I love the idea of Melky Cabrera and Phil Hughes and a minor league play for Johan.
BigE, I will go one further. I dont want him in the AL. Mets or Dodgers. I thinkthey have the best package, (hoping for reyes, if we have to trade him, I know they say he is off the table but of course they are oging to day that) I do think Wright is of course off the table but I agree with Reusse, Reyes could be available.
Last I heard Sosa wants $7 million per year. No thanks.
TJl- i agree totally!! if we are going to trade Johan lets hope he goes to a National league team. Hopefully to the Mets if we can get Reyes!!!!
Is it a foregone conclusion that teams such as NYY and BOS just do not trade with each other, period? I wonder if the Twins have any organizations they do not trade with….
Put me down for resigning Santana, doing their best to keep Silva, trading Nathan for a third baseman, and getting a free agent for center until someone else can step in nicely.
Most teams do not trade within the division. That seems to be a pretty standard “rule.”
Anyone else concerned that you’re replacing your vocal leader Hunter w/ a problem player who has shown a lack of hustle (a Twins prerequisite)? Who’s gonna keep Delmon Young inline? Gardy? If it’s just him, he’s liable to argue w/ him as much as he did the TB mgr. The only remaining vocal leaders are Redmond and Punto, but those guys are both backups. Young won’t respect their comments.
Plus we traded 2 serviceable major leaguers w/ upside, Garza and Bartlett, for 1 serviceable guy w/ a little more upside, but a lot more character questions. This deal could make or break Smith’s tenure as GM, and it’s his first deal. Time will tell if it’s gutsy or stupid.
So, TT, draft picks are better than Lowrie and Lester plus?
No, draft picks and a year of Johan Santana are better than Lowrie and Lester. Lowrie is a guy who had a breakout year with the bat, but he doesn’t really play a position well enough to play in the major leagues. Lester is the equivalent of Glen Perkins.
Punto @ short–surely you jest. Guy had the lowest batting average in the league last year and is rewarded? Hell of an upgrade.
Just because we want a good 3B, a good Cf, and a good SP out of the deal doesn’t mean that’s what we’ll get.
You may want that. I want one player with the potential to be as good as Santana at some point. Because that is the way you build championship teams, not by trading quality for quantity. If no one is willing to pay now, play out the season with Santana and see where we are in July.
I still think you have misinformation on Lowrie TT. You don’t have to look around very far to find plenty of scouts who believe he is a capable major league shortstop or worst case second base. Saying Lowrie is poor defensively sounds like information that is two years old.
Another “Craig” has joined the blogs, so the new name until I can think of something better.
The trade orchestrated by Smith & Co. is disgusting. Bartlett alone is too high a price to pay for those three. Losing Garza for that pile of junk is a disgrace.
The old cheapskate has yet to sign Santana and continues on with the wrong-headed decision to trade him. It looks as though the team has decidedly taken a dramatic turn for the worse with some awful decisions.
Terry Ryan held this team together for the Twins and brought us consistent winners. Twins fans are witnessing the beginning of a big change. It is not a change for the better.
jon,
I believe in giving Young a “clean slate.” I prefer to see how he acts with the Twins before passing judgement, since honestly people out there have done far worse than he.
Palerider -
A BBA report from this fall:
“Now, the Sox are asking Lowrie to improve his portfolio in the AFL, where he will play on both sides of the second base bag and will also see time at third base.
“It’s been a while since I played second, but it’s kind of like getting on that bike again,” Lowrie said. “It’s getting the feeds down, turning the double play. Now, third is a little bit different. I haven’t taken very many reps at third in my life, so (Epperson) is working with me a lot early every day on third base. That’s the biggest thing–being able to have the ability to play all three positions gives me a lot more value.”
Lowrie is coming off an outstanding offensive year in which he finished at Triple-A Pawtucket and batted .298/.393/.503 with 13 homers and 47 doubles between Double-A Portland and his final 160 at-bats for the Paw Sox.
“I think Jed is going to benefit in his career at being able to play multiple positions, and that’s what he’s proving out here,” Epperson said. “He’s a switch-hitter that gives you a quality plate appearance from either side every time and he’s very serviceable at any one of those positions.”
Does that sound like a guy who is going to be your everyday shortstop? It sounds from most of the reports that there are questions about his range and his arm from the left side of the infield.
I would much rather they went after Brandon Wood from the Angels.
And here is other BBA information also from Epperson and a scout from this spring.
“He’s been going in the hole and throwing out guys like (Myrtle Beach outfielder) Brandon Jones,” Blue Rocks manager Chad Epperson said.
“Lowrie definitely profiles at the position,” the scout said. “He’s one of those guys that moves up a level and makes the big wigs go, ‘God, this guy just does everything so easy–he just does it and does it.
“This kid’s a lot better player than Pedroia. There’s a lot of hype, a lot of ‘Moneyball’ in (Pedroia). This kid’s got a chance to play and stay at shortstop. To me, that has a lot more value than the guy that’s going to be an offensive second baseman. Lowrie is a much better athlete who can play the position and has some upside staying at shortstop. I’ll take the guy who’s athletic enough to figure things out.”
Now, this fall, with Lowell, Lugo and Pedroia commited long term barring trade I am not surprised they are looking at moving Lowrie all around the infield.
am getting the odd feeling the twins are caving into bosox 4 man offer of coco, lester and who knows…please mr bill, if you have any balls at all, youll tell them to pack that to someone else…go get reyes, humber and a prospect and you truly will become trader bill….who the hell are the red sox to dictate to us anyway…c’mon stick in in their ___
i said it yesturday and ill say it again..
mr smith needs to tell the sox we want ellsbury.. and if the sox say no
mr smith needs to say this: “Sit and spin”
a scout from this spring.
… and then this fall he is being tried at other positions. I don’t think those reports are all that different. One talks about the upside of a kid coming out of A ball. The other is talking about what a player who has reached AAA because of his bat needs to do to take the next step to the big leagues.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have value. But he isn’t the hitter Michael Cuddyer was and he may very well have the same problems settling into a position at the major league level.
Since we are all having fun spending Carl’s money, and giving unbeatable advice to Bill Smith, I still like the idea of trading with the Mets or Dodgers best.
How about for Johan (and maybe Boofster?)
From the Mets: Reyee/SS, Gomez/OF, and maybe Humber/P.
From the Dodgers: Kemp/OF, LaRoche/3b, and (hopefully) Billingsley.
We don’t have to face him when the Yankees or Red Sox come to town, the Red Sox don’t have a killer starting rotation.
Can you imagine Johan in the NL?? Unbeatable. 25-30 game winner and Strikeout King.
You don’t trade the best pitcher in baseball for mediocre players who happen to fill a hole you have next season.
Exactly. Santana doesn’t go anywhere unless the Twins get players that will:
1) Contribute NAO.
2) Will likely stick around for a while.
alright.. now we are talking..
mlbtraderumors reports that the yanks are possibly willing to part with cano
cano melky kennedy?? ill take it!
John: Carl’s money? Didn’t you guys just agree to buy him a stadium? How charitable can you be? Poor Carl, he’s just a Fortune 500 member of an ol’ boys’ club with an anti-trust exemption.
Minaya’s not giving up Reyes, and the Mets don’t have enough otherwise. You’re probably right on the Dodgers’ package, but I’d still hold out for whatever the pitching that the Yanks and Sox crank themselves up to. As a Yankee fan, I’m hoping you guys get Lester, Lowrey and Ellsbury from Theo, or that Santana goes to the NL, where (you’re right) he’ll have about 800 k’s next year. As a pure baseball fan, I hope the Twins find a way to keep him; I just don’t see how it can happen, and I’m not sure it’s in the team’s best interest in the long run. The Boston or Dodgers packages, or the Yanks’ Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata/etc. is probably a faster way to the promised land than a $25m/year arm.
Lindsey Lohan is the Denard Span of hollywood skanks. A minor league skank that has the professionalism slightly better than a 5 dollar hooker. Sorry if that’s not nice, but she’s worthless.
I’m happy Torii is getting the attention.
If the Twins can get a deal with the Dodgers for LaRoche, Abreu and Kershaw, or at least make a deal with the Dodgers involving something to get LaRoche and Abreu…
That would solve the infield issues, and keep Nick Punto out of the line up.
im tired of hearing about the angels offer..
matthews jr, santana/weaver or saunders and reggie willits?
please.. i dont want or need the steroid story of matthews jr.. i dont want mr weaver.. he is good.. but i think he is an injury waiting to happen… and willits? great.. guy cant hit a HR..
wow.. celtics up 43 pts in the 3rd quarter.. i hope KG brings home a championsip
PLEASE send Johan to the NL! I cannot stand the idea of him with the BoSox or Yanks. BC Beneke has the right idea — deal with the Dodgers with LaRoche and Kershaw for starters.
Hmmmm,
What if we got Lester, Crisp, Jed Lowrie, and wait for it . . wait for it Youkilis??
That would basically fill all the holes we have and putting in youkilis is the only way the Twins should accept not getting at least Ellsbury or Bucholz for Santana.
CF Crisp
3B Youkilis
C Joe Mauer
LF Young
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel
2B Casilla/Harris/Punto
SS Punto/Casilla/Punto
If I remember right Youkilis used to play 3B. This may require one more part from us possibly a prospect somewhere. I’d be more than happy with this but have no idea if Youkilis is available or if the Twins are even interested.
Ideally they wait awhile and pit these teams against each other and get one of these dream hauls we’ve all been talking about. My dream is this
Santana for Cano, Hughes, and a couple prospects
Then we make a separate trade for Crisp using some lower end prospects. Or because we’ll be offloading major salary possibly sign Rowand. However with that lineup who leads off? Casilla? Harris? I dunno.
mlbtraderumors reports that the yanks are possibly willing to part with cano
Interesting, I would’ve expected the Yanks to be the first to blink…but not this quickly. I expected them to at LEAST make it to the winter meetings before changing their tune.
i dont want to hear any more coco crisp again today… i would rather (and so would you) live with tyner in cf…believe me…..coco crisp/denard span…..same thing….
This has been bouncing around in my head today:
Say the Twins agree to a deal with a 72 hour waiting period to negotiate an extention. Santana and his agent meet with the Yankees/Redsox, ask for 6 and 150. The team balk and only offer 5 and 120. The deal falls through.
Does this cause Santana and his agent to reconsider the market? Thus lowering the overall cost, making it more digestable for the Twins to extend him?
I see us being a little more open to signing him to an extension after they dealt Garza.
It could be a brilliant move by Smith… maybe I am giving him too much credit
TT Lowrie I see nothing in that report that doesn’t praise the kid he’d be the best Twins position prospect by FAR. He’s what we want Trevor Plouffe to be. Average to above average with the glove and a guy that will hit for average, power for his position and draw walks.
DeCo Spisp?
Lowrie is the only guy in the rumored deal I would get even a little excited about… But realistically he will be an average SS in the ML at best, maybe an upgrade from Bartlett, but not for a few years…
TT a bit about Lowrie stolen from Eric Van
“Lowrie as a SS
Using Clay Davenport’s MLE’s, there were only 4 MLB starting SS who had a better year at the plate at age 23: Hanley Ramirez, Jhonny Peralta, Bobby Crosby, and Jose Reyes. After Lowrie, you get Jeter, Tejada, and Stephen Drew. Crosby’s battled injuries since his first 2 years, Peralta is beginning to show signs of living up to his rookie year, and the others aren’t a bad peer group, eh? “
It’s not worth signing any pitcher to a contract that takes up 25% of your payroll. It would take at least that to sign Johan. Sell high — to an NL team.
Crisp is much better than Span is right now. That’s ridiculous to say that. I’m not saying I love Crispy but he’s a good defender out there and a decent enough on base guy for me to play center for a few years. We won’t need Torri like production from Center with Young out there and hopefully pick up one more good hitter in the Santana trade.
Deal with the BoSox or Yanks only if they give up the farm … and then some. Unless you’re talking about a lopsided deal in the Twins’ favor — I don’t want to see Johan coming to the dome with either of those teams for the next 5-6 years.
And please stop with the Coco Crisp talk! He’s named after a cereal for cryin’ out loud!
sananta to the yanks for melky/cano/kennedy
nathan to the rangers for blalock
melky
cano
mauer
young
morneau
cuddy
blalock
kubel/morneau
harris/punto/casilla
liriano,baker,slowey,boof,kennedy
guerrier,perkins,reyes,rincon,crain,neshek
ILL TAKE IT!
i didnt mean kubel/morneau
i meant kubel/monroe!
Hopefully this is a comprehensive analysis of the great speculation of the Johan trade value on this blog. TR is a great talent evaluator. BS is a river boat gambler. He is a perfect guy to pull this off. Never has the trade value been better on the east coast(i.e. teams that can pay him, teams that need him or more importantly teams that want to keep him from their hated rival). Most of these players are young stars or future stars (yet to be arbitration elegible and a long way from free agency).
NY Mets/need pitching especially the best pitcher in baseball. They blew the pennant last year and are in a battle for the hearts ane minds of the NY fan.
a. Johan for David Wright/done deal close up shop.
b. Reyes and Humber or Pelfrey (don’t embarras by mentioning Melledge).
NY Yankees could obviously use him but it is more important to keep him away from the dreaded Red Sox.
a. Cano and or a combination of Joba/Hughes/or else Alberto Gonzalez is in play. We can always add some of our pitching prospects to some of the mix.
Boston/biggest motivation would be to keep him away from the hated Yankees.
a. Ellsbury/Lowrie and Buckholtz or
Lester-are doable. Again we can always sweeten the pot with our pitching prospects. Coco should only be considered in a side trade.
If it doesn’t work out on th east coast move to the west coast (LAA and LAD should be motivated for the same reason listed above.)
This trade could determine what the next ten years holds for the Twins (we don’t want to go back to the dark days of the 1990s when we’re about to go into the new stadium.)
wait for my story to post… how would you feel about Hughes, Kennedy and Cabrera????
kennedy hughes cabrera??
ILL TAKE IT!
La Velle
any chances of cano?? last i heard the yanks may be willing to part with him
Kennedy, Hughes, and Cabrera sounds great, and I would be happy with it, but there is no need to rush into a deal.
I’m for the Dodgers deal, take four:
Broxton, Kemp, Kershaw, LaRoche.
OR
Send them Johan AND Nathan and add Billingsley AND a low level prospect
the only deal that beats hughes, cabrera kennedy.. is hughes cabrera cano
IMO..
IF the Red Sox offered Buccholz, Lowrie and Crisp, I think I would be sold! If they added Bowden, even better!
kennedy melky tabata?? not happening yanks.. sit and spin!
hughes melky tabata…
done and done
We need to get something done soon! I still would take Hughes in any deal. He can step right in and start for us. But the thing is we need a starting 3rd baseman! Could Cuddyer be on his way back to 3rd base?
Kuble LF
Crisp/Cabrera/Ellsbury CF
Young RF
OF the three possibly available I would want Ellsbury!
La Velle,
update us please..
How about just Hughes and Cano?
gw- I like that trade best, but I think the Yanks are still a ways away from offering that much.
hmmmm . . .
Cano and Hughes straight up. Then with the money we save go after Rowand. If that doesn’t work, small trade for Crisp.
My favorite team to deal to would have to be the Dodgers. If only they’d let us fleece them
Possibly Kemp, Billingsley, and Laroche? Hmmm, we may have to give something else up for that.
wait for my story to post… how would you feel about Hughes, Kennedy and Cabrera????
Oh man…that’d solidify the rotation and give us a guy for CF, thus letting Kubel DH full time.
That just leaves 3B, 2B, SS….sorta.
I should add though, that if the Twins have gotten the Yankees to flinch and suggest Cano “might” be available….I’d say they need to keep their eyes set on the prize.
They’ve gotten New York to go from “No way you’re getting Cano” to “Well…maybe” in less than a few days.
That’s gotta say SOMETHING for where they can take this deal.
I agree T. Unless there is some circumstance we as fans don’t know about, the Twins should keep that good deal in mind, but keep trying to see what they could get from other teams or if the Yanks will up their offer.
If the Twins get the Yankees to say “Cano”, they immediately jump to number 1 in my book.
But I don’t pull the trigger until I let that news stew around New England for a while. Let the local media start getting rabid as they watch Johan start getting measured for his pinstripes.
Cano and Hughes I think will be the trade, just watch the Yanks will end up giving in because they want Santana more than they wanted to sign ARod for $305 mil. Once we get this trade done. Sign Rowand or find a trade out there for Nathan for a CF.
Cano and Hughes is the main thing here, that is what I think will happen. No one is untouchable when Santana is in the works.
Personally the Dodgers don’t really do a whole lot for me, its probably because I am an American League guy, so I dont really pay much attention to minor leaguers in the other league…I really want the Mets to work out some deal to the Mets if they do go to an NL team, and try and work something out for one of their bonified major leaguers (i know they said Reyes isnt available, never heard that about Wright though…) maybe work in a package with one of our relief pitchers and a minor leaguer for Wright and one of their prospects?
Wright is even more out of the question than Reyes, I believe.
have you heard that at all? i wouldnt doubt it, but i have not heard Omar Minaya come out and say that he is untouchable, once he says that then i will retract my wish, but as it stands right now, there has been no statement that i know of stating that Wright is not available…
From what I’ve heard, Wright is definitely out of the question, and the reason that Minaya made the comment about not trading Reyes is because the Twins have been asking for him. The Twins didn’t even ask for Wright, knowing he was out of the question. That’s my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Wright’s untouchable, I believe. Maybe they don’t have a replacement in their system. What if we sweeten the deal with Punto?!
If we gave them Punto, we’d have to throw in Slowey to make it worth the 2.4 mil they’ll have to pay Punto.
Wright is about as off limits as it can get. There is no way the Mets would trade him. reyes is the guy if they do make a trade with the Mats, it is as similar with the Yanks and Cano.
see, i understand that he is probably untouchable, but at the same time no statement has been made, so you never know, i have heard his name mentioned a few times on the radio, so who knows?
another question for you though…whats everyone’s opinion on possibly adding Erik Lis or Matt Moses to a deal?
LaVelle, I just read your report posted tonight. Hughes, Kennedy and Cabrera is an interesting proposal. Cabrera merely provides adequate filler in CF, nothing special. But he’s nothing but a means to fill a hole in this deal.
Hughes and Kennedy would look really good in Twins uniforms for a long time to come and while there would still be holes in the infield to fill, you’d have plenty of other young pitchers that are now once again surplus arms. You’ve also still got Nathan as a chip to play next week in return for a 3B perhaps.
IF the Yankees offer those 3 guys, it’s the first proposal I’ve seen that I would not blame Smith for taking immediately. He could roll the dice and wait to see if the deals get even better… but doing so could also result in this deal being pulled from the table (for example if Haren suddenly gets dealt to NY or Boston).
In a Santana deal, I don’t think Moses or Lis adds anything. The other players would be of such a higher quality that they wouldn’t make a difference.
i remember hearing rumors going around about Carlos Beltran possibly being available, i believe i heard one or two around the trade deadline, could be wrong, but i believe i did hear about his availability at one point…i would definitely be up for trading for him, but i doubt our cheap-skate owner would be willing to dish out the money that you would have to pay him…
the reason i am throwing these guys out there is that i am of the belief that you need an absolute sure thing in return for one of the best left-handed pitchers of our time, and i just dont want to trade for a guy that is a hopeful, unless he is proven to be a hopeful that can for sure get it done at the major league level, and so far Lester has done iffy, he has pitched ok, but nothing that makes me want to trade the best pitcher in baseball for…just havent seen enough of buckholz to sway me either way, yes he had the no-hitter, but so did Anibal Sanchez and he did nothing really after that…Ellsbury has a month plus of major league experience and proved to be pretty darn good, but the Red Sox have said he is untouchable…melky cabrera is an average outfielder, so he really doesnt do much for me…phil hughes has a lot of upside, but didnt produce much at the major league level last year, so not much to go off of, same with ian kennedy…joba chamberlain is sort of in the same boat, but i have seen a little more of him and liked what i saw, but the Yankees have said he is untouchable…..when negotiating these trades, the Twins have to realize that Johan is only 28 years old!! he has at least 5 more years of dominant pitching left in him and he is an absolute work horse, so to not get the ABSOLUTE BEST in return will make that trade horrific in my eyes…Johan, as it stands is the face of the franchise, its pretty much like the Wolves trading Garnett, you need the best value in return that you can get!! wow, that is a very long post, but i think i get my point across i hope…
Hughes, kennedy, Cabrara and Tabata. then I pull the trigger.
Or
Cano, Cabrera and kennedy
Don’t SETTLE!!!!
i wouldnt doubt it, but i have not heard Omar Minaya come out and say that he is untouchable
Have you heard the Yankees come out and say that Derek Jeter is out of the question in any potential trade?
There are players on teams that GMs just know they aren’t going to get.
For the Twins it’s guys like Morneau, Mauer, Liriano…on the Yankees it’s Jeter, A-Rod, Wang
Boston has Beckett, Lowell, Youkilis…
Etc.
see, there is one difference there T, that one difference being that there have been rumors going around about him maybe being traded, for Jeter, Morneau, Mauer, Liriano, A-Rod, Wang, and Beckett their have NOT, thats where the difference is, that rumors HAVE been thrown around…sorry, your point is moot in that aspect…
we have to get a top position player in return. Melky is not that. If that trade goes down (melky, hughes, kennedy) then they still need to look to trade nathan and some young pitchers (including kennedy) for high ceiling 3b and SS prospects. We need a star to complement morneau and mauer. Rotation would look good though with liriano, hughes and slowey at the top.
…And we should forget about trading slowey now that santana is gone. He made great adjustments after his second call up and dominated the minors. He has #2 written all over him.
Oops. Meant forget about trading slowey now that GARZA is gone.
Am I in the minority here, why dont the Twins keep Santana!!!!!!!!!! He is the best pitcher in the game.You cant tell me the Twins dont have the money to sign him. Someone please educate me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the value of the Twins gonna increase by $200 million because of the new stadium? Is it not true that the owners of the Twins are in the banking business? You cannot tell me that the Pohlads are not gonna make a fortune off that increase in the value of their team. Spend some damn money and keep the best pitcher in the game here. Otherwise, Johan was right when he said, “the Twins are always preparing for the future.” When the hell is the future coming? We have a good nucleas here, add some quality players and lets win now! If Johan goes, I am done supporting your team. Spend some damn money Mr. Pohlad!!!!!!!
I read on ESPN this morning a deal with Coco Crisp. Seriously Bill Smith DONT do IT!! I know they say they have the untouchables but trust me there are many other teams we can get more from. I would rather see Matthews Jr and Weaver before Coco. I think we all should buckle in if we get Coco in this deal because it will be disaster. I mean it you make a good trade this week but we better get the goods for santana. I would rather play all year and get nothing than get coco. I have a bad feeling about this whole santana deal.
Let’s not go coocoo about coco puffs.
It depends on what elso is invloved. Bucholz is the key. If lester is the biggest chip then don’t do it. Plus with such a young staff we want a guy in CF that can provide good to great defense.
see, i think we would all LOVE to keep Johan, i dont think anyone wants to get rid of him, its just that we have the CHEAPEST owner in the league, he is THE richest owner in baseball, but wont spend crap of his money on the organization that is bringing in tons of money for him, if he were to keep Johan and SPEND MONEY, he could quite well bring in even more revenue than he is right now because the fans will see that he is willing to spend money, but so far he has lied through his teeth over and over, telling us he will spend $40 million more on the roster once the stadium was approved, and then the stadium was approved, he changed it to built, soon it will be that he will spend $40 million once this club wins a World Series, but that wont happen unless he spends money…he just needs to sell the team to someone who is willing to spend his money, not stash it away in some off-shore bank account and let it collect dust while his biggest organization is grasping for air because he wont dole out his loot….
There is a reason the rich get richer. They dont spend a damn thing!
i dont think anyone wants to get rid of him, its just that we have the CHEAPEST owner in the league
Blah blah blah blah blah.
Anybody look at the Rays lately? When’s the last time they made a splash with ANY kind of big signing? This is the biggest move I can remember them making in a while. Otherwise they’ve usually been trading seasoned young guys to get younger guys.
And no, signing Troy Percival doesn’t count if it goes through. That’s a move on par with a Batista, Sierra, or Ponson signing.
thats where the difference is, that rumors HAVE been thrown around…
By who? Twins fans posting here? I have yet to see a legitimate media outlet mention Wright for Santana that doesn’t simply say “Fans want Wright”
This is quite the opposite of players like Cano, Ellsbury, Reyes, Hughes, Bucholtz, etc…that many major media outlets have reported coming up EXPLICITY within trade talks.
But I’m pretty sure we’d have heard it via the blogs (or elsewhere) by now if the Twins had gone out and said “We want to talk Santana for Wright”
Bearded Tree,
What’s an acceptable payroll?
$500 million or $1 Billion per year, he could afford the 1st for 6-8 years, the latter for 3-4.
Thing is that either number does not guarantee anything…
Regards,
Thing is that either number does not guarantee anything…
It guarantees that we’d have some very interesting complaints as people try to find a way to blame Pohlad for why his $500 million team lost a game.
(I’d guess the first words would be, “He was too cheap to spend a couple extra million on _____”)
I would rather play all year and get nothing than get coco. I have a bad feeling about this whole santana deal.
Don’t. They’re testing Smith in his first offseason as GM and so far it sounds like he’s stuck to his guns. To the point where he’s gotten the Yanks to go from “No Cano” to “Maaayyybe Cano”
Boston’s just trying to drive the price up for NYY, who they know will pay it.
Trust me, the Twins will get exactly what they want in the long run. Even if that means they end up signing Santana for a few more years.
Johan says hes not going to the Red Sox. We can forget about that one. Of course Garnett said that about the celtics at first too.
Reusse says theres NO WAY hes going to Bosox.
Reusse says theres NO WAY hes going to Bosox.
If the best they can offer involves Crisp in anyway…I can understand why.
Reusse knows about as much as a blind chimp when it comes to this stuff. He just reads the rumors like the rest of us.
I like what BS is doing. It sounds like the offers have been steadily increasing, little by litte. If he is going to trade Santana I think he is going to have to do it in the next week or 2 though. Other teams are starting to throw out the names of some of their top line pitchers to see what they can get now. If the Yankees decide to trade for Haren instead of Johan, Poof… there goes the market for Johan. So I think Johan will be dealt in the next two weeks.
I dont disagree, but apparently I have heard from other people on the radio that Johan has told people he will not approve a Red Sox trade.
many major media outlets have reported
The “major media outlets” aren’t doing anything more than reporting the same rumors and speculation as everyone else. The “sources close to negotiations” are whoever claims to know something or has a rumor they want to move.
The reality is no one knows what the teams are offering or what the Twins are asking. Because the people actually negotiating aren’t talking. Joe and Len are doing a pretty good job of getting what is said in public out there. But you need to sift through a lot of rumor and speculation to find any facts from the national media.
I dont believe that Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/minor league offer is going to go anywhere. The Boston Herald has a nice breakdown of the trade here:
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2007/11/29/yo-yo-johan/
For those who do not have time to read the whole article, I included the most interesting part. It would seem the market for Santana is much higher than what Boston is offering in the often mentioned trade.
“Also, for what it’s worth, consider this: Generally speaking, frontline pitchers entering the final year of their contracts have been traded for the price of TWO good prospects/major league-ready players. When the Red Sox sox acquired Pedro Martinez from the Montreal Expos in 1997, the package was Carl Pavano and Tony Armas. And when the Sox obtained Josh Beckett from the Florida Marlins after the 2005 season, the key prospects were Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez. (The package grew more complex because of Mike Lowell’s involvement and concerns about Beckett’s shoulder, leading to additional players being involved, like Guillermo Mota.)
An exception to the rule? The Bartolo Colon deal in 2002. In that trade, the Cleveland Indians sent Colon and pitcher Tim Drew (yes, J.D.’s brother) to the Expos for a group that included Lee Stevens, Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips, the latter two of whom are now All-Star-caliber players. And while Lee had a miserable 2007, he is still just 29 (and left-handed) with a career record of 54-36.”
“The reality is no one knows what the teams are offering or what the Twins are asking.”
TT is right. Other than those directly involved in the negotiations, of course. Some of the packages that have been reported would have been too good to pass up, not to mention too good to be true.
this was perhaps already mentioned..
but mlbtraderumors says the yanks are close to signing mark loretta..
it does go on to say that the yanks ahve been interested in loretta for awhile, but maybe the aquisition of loretta means CANO to minnesota..
just a thought..
also, why dont the twins consider a guy like loretta? he is a solid ball player.. nothing spectacular.. but can play 3rd 2nd and 1st
tt you are right on i’ve been saying the same thing. nobody who’s talking knows for sure what is happening, most are blowing smoke and spreading false info. to many guys on this blog seem to think they know everthing. it’s like talking to a used car salesman, what can you really believe?
no one ever knows who is involved in a trade.. no one ever knows who a team is pursuing..
this is a blog.. people chatter.. people throw possible trades out there..
and no. i dont talk to a used car salesman.. i take it straight to the bank..
I am seeming to develop confidenced in Bill Smith in that he doesnt seem to be in too much of a hurry yet. I hope he continues in that mode, and does not make a trade just to make a trade, and if he doesnt get top value, then not trade for now.
But he has impressed me more than TR so far. The Young trade is very good, in that he shows he is willing to part with value to get value, something TR never was willing to do.
But I hope BS keeps the other side of that equation too, if he gives up value, as in santanta, who I still do not want to be traded, he only does it for value befitting a two time Cy Young award winner
Here’s something I found interesting that I think will make the Yankees shudder and THUS, do anything to get Santana (and subsequently keep him out of a Red Sox uni), from the NY Post:
““He is the best,” an AL executive said. It could easily be argued that Santana and Josh Beckett are the top two pitchers in the world. Now add twentysomethings Daisuke Matsuzaka and Clay Buchholz, who both might be aces, as well, and almost certainly will be at least legitimate No. 3 starters. Now add the best closer in the game, 27-year-old Jonathan Papelbon. Now add one of the majors’ three best offenses. Now add the October confidence forged over the past four seasons. Now add the resources to address any problem.”
TA.. great point..
it bothers me when people say the twins wont get MAX value for Johan.
He is a 2 time CY YOUNG WINNER!.. shoulda had 3..
if the twins had an offense last year.. he wins 17, 18 games instead of 15..
Johan is Dominant.. How many consecutive games has he pitched atleast 5 innings?
its a quality start night in and night out with that guy..
and your right.. put johan with a lineup that scores runs.. he could easily win 20 games..
think what his era and strickouts would be for the mets or dodgers pitching without a dh and getting the pitcher at least 3 times a game.
LEN3-What’s the real scoop on Juan Rincon? Did we try to push damaged goods off on the Rays?We must haved tried because how else can it be explained that they conned us out of Morlan.Is he pitching winter ball or what? Something doesn’t moke sense here.
GENO.. the rays were worried bout rincons elbow.. thats the report i heard..
Guys, the Red Sox are NOT going to give up Ellsbury. The Red Sox want, but don’t need Santana. They will be fine with bringing the price up on the yankees.
Don’t forget Theo has shown a great propensity to sit on their evaluations and not budge. Happened with Pedro, happened with Damon, happened with Schilling, and it happened with Lowell. We set our mark, and didn’t move it. The same will happen with the Santana trade. Ellsbury is a no go. If you need him in a deal, you can count one of the most important bidders out.
You also have to factor in the contract as part of the deal. The big boys don’t want to drop the system for Santana because they then have to go out and break the bank for him.
The Red Sox will NEVER do a buchholz and ellsbury trade, followed by a $150 million contract. It makes no sense.
So unfortunately, Santana’s contract desires are a hinderance to the Twins getting what they want/deserve. Even for the Yankees and Sox, $150 for one player is HUGE!
I really like a Cano/Hughes deal, but it worries me that neither player fills the 3B and CF openings…
Rays fans have suggested that Harris could be a 3B, which I guess is stomachable (hell, lets be honest, it would be an upgrade) if you have Cano-like production out of the 2b spot.
I get we would have some money left- but I dont see us spending much on FA SS, 3B or CFers. That leaves us with a possibility of a Harris/Punto left side of the infield and not much in CF…
But the rest of the team… wow.
So, back to blowing smoke.
I just read that the Yankees are close to signing Mark Loretta. Now many think he’ll just be a utility guy for the Yanks but he did play in over 130 games last year. Could he be the backup plan in case they’re considering trading Cano?
Everytime the Thought of Cano comes up I get excited, him and Hughes would be amazing, in fact it would behoove the Twins to throw in another lower level prospect if we could get that combo plus say one of their position prospects.
Do this and maybe make some kinda trade for Crisp to be our CF and leadoff guy. Then Nathan to the Dodgers for Laroche and prospects, or forget Crisp and trade for Kemp and prospects
Those are the trades I’d love to see go down. In fact I have insider information that they are all in the works. Ok, just kidding, but one time I saw Terry Ryan at a Twins game and I’m pretty sure we made eye contact.
I think the RedSox are going for the KILL right now…if they get Santana, lights out for the Yankees; I think the Twins will approach the Yankees ONE more time, and I think the Yankees will cave.
Arrogant Boston fans: “Ellsbury and Buchholz is too much.” Really? For the best pitcher in the game?
Bostnfn- I think the money numbers are an overrated part of this deal. He will be paid that money in two years regardless.
Put it this way: If the Twins signed him to his 6 year extension today, then put him on the market tomorrow would you say the market for him would go up, down or stay the same?
It would be the same.
sensible smoke. i see some sox fans complaining about all the santana talk like all summer espn doens’t spend half everyday talking about the sox and yankees and every other game has one of them in it. if espn set the schedule the two would play 162 games and the rest of the teams could fold up shop.
I was told by a friend that Harris doesn’t have a strong enough arm to play everyday 3B. Don’t know if he was full of it or if he knew what he was talking about. I don’t know much about Harris other than he has better offensive numbers than Punto or Bartlett but never watched him play and have no idea what his defense is like.
I really think that if we make a Santana trade this offseason which i do think should happen, it has to be for 1 of the following three trades or we should hang on to him until the trading deadline. I put them in order of most attractive:
1)Santana and Joe Nathan to Mets for Jose Reyes, Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey, and Fernando Martinez.
2) Santana to Boston for Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie, Jon Lester, and Justin Masterson
3) Santana to Yankees for Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, and Jose Tabata
Even for the Yankees and Sox, $150 for one player is HUGE!
Boston threw that at Matsuzaka without a second thought, and he hadn’t pitched a DAY in the majors.
The Yankees are about to give A-Rod a $305 million dollar contract.
Yeah, they won’t sign the best pitcher in baseball once they get him. Riiiiiight.
Anybody look at the Rays lately? When’s the last time they made a splash with ANY kind of big signing? This is the biggest move I can remember them making in a while. Otherwise they’ve usually been trading seasoned young guys to get younger guys.
And no, signing Troy Percival doesn’t count if it goes through. That’s a move on par with a Batista, Sierra, or Ponson signing.
umm…what does this have to do with Santana??? are you telling us to model ourselves after the DEVIL Rays?!?!?!?!?! (p.s. dont care if they are called the Rays, its the worst name change EVER, so i’m sticking with Devil Rays)
By who? Twins fans posting here? I have yet to see a legitimate media outlet mention Wright for Santana that doesn’t simply say “Fans want Wright”
This is quite the opposite of players like Cano, Ellsbury, Reyes, Hughes, Bucholtz, etc…that many major media outlets have reported coming up EXPLICITY within trade talks.
But I’m pretty sure we’d have heard it via the blogs (or elsewhere) by now if the Twins had gone out and said “We want to talk Santana for Wright”
well, i have heard his name thrown around on KFAN, which is pretty much as legitimate as any newspaper around here, they find these things out from secondary sources, just like everyone else, so i see no difference…
What’s an acceptable payroll?
$500 million or $1 Billion per year, he could afford the 1st for 6-8 years, the latter for 3-4.
who the heck said anything about spending that much money, as it stands right now Wright/Beltran would be making less than Santana would command….
our payroll right now is around $70 million, after getting just one of those two guys we would be right around the league average of $90 million or so (and after signing Morneau and Cuddyer to extensions), so nothing was EVER said about $500 MILLION or even breaking $100 million…
anyways my point was that I am SICK of our cheap owner who wont go over $75 million if his life depended on it, and his son is too cheap too, I never said he should dole out Yankee, Red Sox, or even Mets kind of money to his entire payroll, I am however saying that he needs to spend more of his money because in the long run it will GAIN him more, because the fans will see he cares, there will be more jerseys and apparel worth buying instead of basing it around 3 or 4 players as your key, would much rather see your core built around 6+ guys (including pitchers), but as it stands (after Johan and Joe leave) our core is Mauer, Morneau, Young…
not much else to attract the fans, Liriano maybe, all depending on how he pitches after his surgery….
just asking for an increase in payroll like he said he would give us, not $425 million dollars more, just the $40 million he promised us…think i got my point across…
umm…what does this have to do with Santana???
You wanted an example of a cheap owner, I gave you one.
well, i have heard his name thrown around on KFAN
In what context? The only time I’ve heard Wright’s name come up was in the context of: “People want Wright for Santana but it won’t happen ever.”
Check out Jayson Stark’s latest blog on ESPN and tell me we wouldnt be able to get the absolute MAX for Johan, which I see as bonified position player and a prospect or two…
when did i ask for an expample of a cheap owner, i know there are cheap owners out there, but what bugs me is the fact that the TWINS’ OWNER is THE RICHEST OWNER IN BASEBALL and has a payroll in the bottom 12 of the league!!!
and regarding what I heard on KFAN was a couple weeks ago I heard, i believe it was either PA and Dubay or Chad Hartman bring up David Wright, they did say that it wouldnt make sense for the Mets to do it, but they were also talking how after the complete collapse by the Mets late in the season was possibly driving the Mets organization into a possible overhaul mode…you never know for sure though, it was speculation obviously, but i have heard no reports contradicting that speculation…show me one and i will back off, but so far i have heard none that the Mets arent willing to go into complete overhaul mode, or even partial overhaul mode….and we will not get Milledge from the Mets seeing as he was just traded to the Nats…
I was thinking about potential dark horses in the Santana deal. Why not the Texas Rangers? They have a some nice pitching prospects such as 22-year-old Edinson Valquez (8-1, 62K’s 58ip in AA). Not to mention Hank Blalock and a perpetual need to upgrade pitching. Also Santana struck out like 15 Rangers or something in a game last year. Maybe?
Err wait… let’s keep Santana at least til July, use hunter’s 45 mil to sign him for 6 more years at 140 mil, and trade for Joe Crede.
The Mets wouldn’t trade for Santana if they were going to start rebuilding. They would want to keep their young guys and possibly trade a Beltran or Wright to get a young stud pitcher rather than Santana. That makes no sense but then P.A. and Dubay don’t make much sense.
Bottom line is there’s no way the Twins get Wright. NO WAY. If he was on the table at all it would be mentioned somewhere by an ESPN or Lavelle, something real would have mentioned it not just a random comment by a radio host.
I’ve been thinking more and more the Twins might be seriously contemplating making a run at it this year. If they were to go out and sign Rowand to play CF (it has been mentioned, multiple places) and possibly sign a 3B. That leaves us with a pretty damn good lineup and some great pitching as well. Probably as good or better than last year if Liriano is his old self. Twins in 08??? !!!!
it all depends on the money for them, i think the Rangers are more likely to trade away guys than they are to bring in a big name, they traded one of the best young first baseman in Major League Baseball last year for some good prospects and a rookie catcher…i just dont see them as adding more to their overall payroll, to me it looks like they are in rebuilding mode…it wouldnt surprise me if in the next year or so they trade Michael Young and Hank Blalock for some young prospects…
slervball
that really doesnt make much sense because there is no guarantee you will get their, and that would mean doling out the money they arent willing to give up for Santana, if they are going to go after a stud CF like Rowand (who by the way could easily command almost as much as Hunter did, at least $14 million) and then sign a 3B who, well news flash, A-Rod and Lowell are gone, so your next best option would be Pedro Feliz who would be under the category of “fairly old guy who can hit sometimes, but is a career .250 hitter and will demand more money than he deserves”…so right there you are paying close to $20 million a year AT LEAST to those two players and then letting the best pitcher in baseball go without getting ANYTHING in return…just doesnt make sense…
Mike Lamb at 3B could be had for fairly cheap he got 2.7 last year, is a free agent, and there’s no reason last year would have pumped his value up too much. He wouldn’t be an allstar by any means but would be an upgrade over Punto.
Rowand is 2 years younger than Hunter and just might be worth putting some money into. I’ve heard 5 years 60 mil would be good for him. That’s 12 per year to fill one of our biggest needs.
We would still get 2 picks for Santana. There’s never a guarantee to win a series but with the talent they already have on the roster and adding one or two pieces they could really be set to make a legitimate run.
Here’s the starters you’d be looking at for 08 if we made those two moves
C Mauer
1B Morneau
2B Harris/Punto/Casilla
SS Casilla/Punto/Harris
3B Mike Lamb
LF Delmon Young
CF Aaron Rowand
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel/Monroe
Rotation
Santana
Liriano
Baker
Slowey
Perkins/Bonser/Blackburn
That looks like a team that could contend with anybody. It’s not a given but it never will be as a small market team.
To clarify I’m still in favor of the Twins trading Santana if they can get a good enough haul for him. If not, then let’s see what happens and make a real run at it with the one two punch of Santana and Liriano.
Besides,
My main point is that it makes no sense to trade for an expensive as hell pitcher in his prime if you’re going to try and rebuild your team. Wright fits better on a rebuilding team than Santana because Wright is younger. Santana is the kind of guy a team that’s already good wants to put them over the top. Santana is in his prime right now not int 5 years. That’s why we’re probably going to trade him, he’s expensive and we can’t put the players around him to compete after this coming year when his salary will likely double.
The mets, Yankees, Dodger,Sox, all can
wouldnt you somewhat consider the Twins in a slight rebuilding mode if they are trading for young guys and are willing to trade the best pitcher in baseball for young guys? to me, that means rebuilding…
punto sucks. give him away for a can of beans.
get scott stahoviak and pat mears back here. they’ll fix our ills.
Hank Blalock as the headliner in a Santana deal?
Excuse me while I vomit profusely.
(that’s my way of saying no thanks)
i’m with you snepp, hank blalock cannot be the headliner, maybe if you were to work out a package including Michael Young to the Twins somehow…
Durrrrr
Stop using my name.
stop using your name? i used it once…in order to signify who i was talking to…
By the way, that wasn’t me.
I’d also like to add that I’m flattered someone would go out of their way to comment under my name, it makes me feel special.
ok…
Is anyone else really sexually attracted to Haley Joel Osment? I know I am. I’m getting hard just thinking about him.
And another thing- I drink pee. Out of Dixie cups. I prefer it warm but if you’re handing me a Dixie cup of chilled pee, I’m drinking it friend. I’m GULPING it.
Hank Blalock looks like the kinda guy I’d like to see in a flannel shirt, only with the arms cut off and the edges are all raggedy, you know? Maybe he’s cutting some wood too, and his hair’s wet. Also, I’m naked and touching myself.
If my penis gets all stiff- does that mean I have to use the bathroom? That’s what my brother told me and now everytime I watch old “Empty Nest” reruns I, uh… have to go to the bathroom.
get out of here
*sigh*
Oh you’ve got to be kidding me. First Kevin comes waltzing in with his childish “FIRST!” comments, and now BeardedTree’s stooping as low as to pretend to be somebody else?
What crack in the Earth are these people pouring out of?
Wait, I shouldn’t immediately pin this on BeardedTree…but for all that’s holy this place has dropped in quality lately.
Whoever’s doing it, get over yourself. Us adults are trying to talk baseball.
Please La Velle, shut this down.
I have been reading this blog for some time, but have never posted. I have really enjoyed your posts. I have to say one thing here…a player, or anything for that matter, is only worth what someone is willing to pay…the Twins demanding something isn’t going to get it. I too have tired of the rumors, and suspect we’ll all be shocked when this goes down…And for all the “Cheapest owner, cheap team..blah blah” comments–I have always liked being a fan of the team that spends very little and competes with the “big boys”..just a thought…like I said, I’m new..so go easy! Thanks
Oh, one last thing….I talked to Matt Guerrier once after he watched Liriano throw a bullpen session last year, and he told me that Santana said (after seeing the same session) “This kid has the filithiest stuff…better than mine”. IF he is truly healthy..I believe we already have the future “best pitcher in baseball”, even after Santana leaves. Thanks.
Mills_TX, I think you should have stuck with the “never posting” thing, but most importantly, you should now commit yourself to drawing up the best, most efficient way possible to kill yourself. For our sake. To rid the innocent world of your white-hot moronocity.
I have to “go to the bathroom” again guys. Eh heh heh.
T, why would i post as someone else? why would you automatically pin down me, because you disagreed with what i say, i could really give a crap if you agree with me or not or whether you think what i say is valid at all…the ideas i throw out are the ones that i have heard thrown around, yes, a lot of it is wishful thinking, but who wouldnt wish for the absolute best when you are trading away the best pitcher in baseball???
BeardedTree, all I know for 100% sure is that you’re posting under my name. Stop or I’ll be alerting the AUTHORITIES MY FRIEND.
La Velle, please feel free to echo this sentiment from all Twins, Wolves, Vikings and Wild fans from our wonderful state: Rhymes with “Puck” but starts with an “F”, and “YOU” BOSTON. HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU BE UNWILLING TO PART WITH A “PROSPECT” NAMED JACOBY FOR A FUTURE 6 TIME CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER! FIGURE IT OUT! Johan is a bonafide #1 for years to come and potentially could be considered at the end of his career the BEST pitcher of all time. I want to go on record as saying, “F” Coco Crisp and “F” the enitre New England/Boston region! You have Big Papi (from the Twins), you have potentially the greatest basketball player of all time in Kevin Garnett from the Wolves for absolutely nothing, and you now have probably the best wide receiver (albeit not directly from us) in Randy Moss. We also gave you a #1 goaltender in Manny Fernandez for virtually nothing. GIVE UP SOMETHING for Johan and Shut The Front Door about Jacoby for cyring out loud!
To BILLY SMITH: Please don’t give up the best pitcher EVER for anything less than what he’s worth. I know what you are thinking, but we got NOTHING for Torri….forget about that and get Jacoby, JABA or JOSE in any trade you are looking at. I don’t care what those people think about UNTOUCHABLE!
THE ENTIRE STATE OF MINNNESOTA!
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