Saturday update: The Twins Will Not Compromise [update]
Posted on December 1st, 2007 – 2:20 PMBy La Velle
The Yankees and Red Sox are the two main teams talking to the Twins about lefthander Johan Santana as of now. The Yankees have included righthander Phillip Hughes to its offer, which is believed to be Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy. [2:55 UPDATE: Someone following the Yankees situation just told me that New York prefers to hold on to Hughes or Kennedy, so we’ll see how this plays out).
The Red Sox want to offer Coco Crisp as part of a multi-player package, but the Twins aren’t interested. The Twins are at the point now where they won’t accept anything less than their demands and are prepared to go elsewhere if they don’t get what they want.
There’s a chance that the Mets may re-think their reluctance to add shortstop Jose Reyes to a deal because they are desperate for starting pitching. If Reyes becomes available, look for the Mets to surge in this race. I’ve been told the Twins would prefer to send Santana to a National League team. Santana would like the N.L. so he can hit.
Things can change as teams begin to arrive in Nashville for the winter meetings. Twins GM Bill Smith and assistant GM Rob Antony were headed to Nashville at the time of this writing. Smith has to take part in a minor leagues Board of Trustees meeting but is expected to talk to clubs today and tonight - which is why Antony is with him.
Other teams could make a harder push for Santana. Some clubs interested in Santana also are keeping an eye on the Miguel Cabrera situation in Florida, which has kept them from making serious offers.
[UPDATE AT 4:00] Here’s Ken Rosenthal with an update. The Twins should have arrived in Nashville by now, so I’m guessing all these talks that are supposed to happen can now happen..
509 Responses to "Saturday update: The Twins Will Not Compromise [update]"
As the Twins should.
They shouldn’t settle for anything less then what Santana is worth.
Teams deem all these players “untouchable.” Well, that’s fine…but if that’s the case, you’re not going to get the best pitcher in baseball.
stick to your guns mr. smith
Great, great work, LEN III. For those of us drooling over any breaking news, it’s good to have an insider down there to share the minute anything boils on the hot stove.
Keep it coming!
You’re not thinking straight if you honestly believe the Yankees would give up both Hughes and Kennedy. Blatant homerism in journalism that leads to complete idiocy is ridiculous.
La Velle - What is Reyes contract situation ($$/Years)? I would love to have him at the top of our order for years to come. If we could get him and not just for a year or two before having to move him, that would be the best option I think! Also, any chance the Twins could go after Ty Wigginton at 3B? I think he would be a perfect fit with our team and provide some sparks at the plate. If we did that, our lineup could be 1. Reyes (SS) 2. Kubel (DH) 3. Mauer (C) 4. Cuddyer (RF) 5. Morneau (1B) 6. D. Young (LF) 7. Wigginton (3B) 8. Monroe (CF) 9. Harris (2B) What do you think?
Um, and to be a little more respectful than BiSoon….
La Velle, have you heard recently that the offer is Hughes, Kennedy, and Cabrera? Everything I’d been reading for the past 24 hours has said that it’d be Hughes and Cabrera, but that the Yankees are unwilling to send both Hughes and Kennedy.
Has that stance changed? If so, Smith is doing a great job of getting the price up a bit.
That is reassuring. I have been really impressed with BS’s handling of this. I was worried that a first year GM would get pushed around.
I love that we are sticking to our guns in regards to Crisp- the Twins FO knows they could get him for a mid-level prospect in feburary. And they seem to be reluctant to buy into the Yankee belief that Melkey is a big prospect. He will end up being an average ML outfielder, he will play the field like a corner outfielder and hit like a CFer. I am not opposed to him being part of a deal, but there needs to be a lot more than him and a pitcher (even if it is Hughes). I like Tabata…
No Way, This is garbage. The Yanks have been saying all along they’d never give Hughes and Kennedy. They barely agreed to throw in Hughes only. Neal is going to end up looking like a hack on this one.
Ty:
Jose Reyes has what is widely considered the “best” contract in baseball (from the perspective of the organization, that is).
2008: $4M
2009: $5.75M
2010: $9M
2011: $11M (club option)
If we got him, he’d be ours for a while, and fairly inexpensive.
just want to say I’m from NY and we know how Cashman is as a GM and he nor Hank would ever trade Hughes and Kennedy, 1 of them yes but for 2 of them ? after the initial offer the Red Sox proposed was accepted as a smoke screen that’s when they walk away.
You’re an idiot Neal. The Yanks original offer was Cabrera and Kennedy. Their new offer includes Hughes INSTEAD of Kennedy, not in addition to. Mark my words, Neal’s got it all wrong and it ruins his credibility from here on in.
Well if the deal I see a lot is Melkey/Hughes/Tabata… I dont necessarily think Melkey/Huges/Kennedy is much different. Most sites rank Tabata as a better prospect than Kennedy.
Kennedy had a few nice starts this year, but he looks to be a career #4 starter. With the Twins already having a Kennedy clone (Slowey) I really wonder if they are holding out for him. My guess is they still want Cano to be part of a deal, even if it involved more players.
Could you please confirm that you meant it to say Hughes AND Kennedy, and not Hughes OR Kennedy.
If this is indeed true, man, why aren’t we all over it?
“Neal’s got it all wrong and it ruins his credibility from here on in.”
Ruins his credibility? The guy that broke the Delmon Young/Matt Garza trade a couple days ago would have his credibility “ruined” by suggesting there is an offer on the table that includes someone that you believe it dosent?
Lay off the testostrone SanFan…
I’m not down in Nashville yet, which is problem as I look outside my window.
It’s true, the Yanks don’t want to part with Hughes and Kennedy. But the Twins are aiming high. I won’t claim a victory if I’m right or defeat if a named gets switched. Remember, I had Rincon involved in the Delmon Young deal (I was told he was being kicked around in the deal) but they went with Morlan).
SanFan, call me a hack all you want. Don’t forget, I didn’t vote for Pedro for MVP. My skin is quite thick. Besides, we’re at the mercy of what sources tell us and sometimes the whole truth doesn’t come out right away. Tabata and Jackson have been thrown out there as possible pieces to the deal, too. Until there’s a deal we won’t know.
La Velle,
Keep up the fine work.
Don’t listen to these jealous, want to be journalists.
Wow, there are a lot of people jumping all over LENIII on this one. Chill out people. Even if he meant to say Hughes and Kennedy, if its wrong and we still get Hughes Cabrera and Jackson/Tabata it’s still a hell of a deal and LENIII will still be the beat writer.
The biggest problem with the Mets is that what else comes with it. I’ve heard their pitchers aren’t that great. With the loss of Garza I feel like the Twins need to get a can’t miss pitcher with the Santana trade. I do love Reyes though. Maybe the Yanks and Mets can share Santana and we can get Hughes and Reyes.
There we go, now we’re speculating
Keep up the good work LaVelle. You’re doing a wonderful job of following this. The blog has been a great way to see how things are progressing.
La Velle, it would be very interesting to get your unique perspective on the body language of some key individuals in the Twins’ front office. If you would, compare and contrast that perception to current players who are core to the team and whose names aren’t being tossed around in negotiations. Good to get a reading on that.
LaVelle, Sorry about the jerks. I’m rather amused by the “You’lltake Coco Crisp and just Coco and you’ll LIKE it crowd.” No, no we won’t.
My question is–is Kennedy, Hughes, and Melky really that good of a trade for us? Obviously, that’s a crazy statement for any other team in baseball. But, while we need one good starter, what we really need, frankly, is some wood.
Thanks for all your great work on this.
La Velle,
Thanks for the updates and please understand that 99% of us who read this blog are normal human beings who appreciate the insight.
Jose Reyes?!!! That name alone gets me excited and will get the blog to Russonian levels.
LaVelle (or whoever)- there’s mention of a meeting this afternoon with Epstein. Any idea what time? Seems like everyone considers quick public disclosure of information to be in their best interest. I wonder how long before we hear what Epstein had to say…
What are the Twins going to do about 3B and SS? Not to mention some resemblence of a lead off hitter? What good will the BIG 5 of Kubel,Mauer,Young,Morneau & Cuddyer be w/o anyone on base?
“Lay off the testostrone SanFan…”
RyanW,
I’m sure the Trib appreciates the fact that this is the only place you get your news but Charley Walters of Pioneer Press broke the Garz/Young story, Neal was no where near it when it first came up.
LA VELLE,
Don’t mind a couple idiots who are probably NY fans in disguise.
99.9% of Twins fans appreciate ANY info you can provide.
Thanks!
Eva, I agree… I would rather see Hughes, Cano even if we needed to throw in someone. Or if Melkey has to be part of the deal, then Melkey, Hughes, Tabata and the waterboarder- Alberto Gonzolaz…
It would fill SS, Ace, CF… and give you a stud OF prospect in Tabata which you could develop or deal.
Thanks for the update La Velle. If your weather is anywhere near as crummy as it is here in southeast Iowa, you may be there for several hours. Hope to hear from you with good news sometime in the next day or two.
La Velle,
If the rumored Rolen to Milwaukee trade comes to pass and Braun is moved to the OF, do you think the Twins would have interest in Bill Hall to plug in at shortstop?
Also, if the Twins get Hughes and Kennedy, do you see the Twins flipping Kennedy to fill an offensive hole?
Walters called it “the rumor that wont go away” a week before.
In no way is that breaking a story. Every press outlet, from CBS to ESPN gave credit to the Trib for breaking the story…
“Don’t forget, I didn’t vote for Pedro for MVP.”
Gosh- I hope you voted for Pedro for president. Dang–Pedro offers you his protection from Sanfran.
SanFran,
If you like your PP so much go read that web site and quit talking crap on message boards, it’s very immature. If you want to talk about stuff in a civil manner without whipping out insults, fine. I’m sure you’re gonna have to respond to this but you won’t be getting another one from me, I could really care less what you have to say.
La Velle,
Where did the Reyes rumor come from? or is it pretty unconfirmed? I’m just curious. Also for those asking about a leadoff hitter, wouldn’t Melky fill that role for us most likely?
Please dont mention charley walters EVER AGAIN…
The man is an idiot
lies! lies! lies! this guy is talking out of his behind! the yankees will not offer kennedy along with hughes and melky! terrible lies! this is a crime. you can’t publish things in newspapers that are not true! the yankees would be crazy to offer melky hughes and kennedy when the next closest offer is crisp and lester! crisp sucks and lester will be turning 24 soon and he has been bad. a twins official even said that he thinks hughes is the best the twins will be able to get. twins fans, dont get your hopes up!
Reyes isn’t going anywhere. Period.
“Also, if the Twins get Hughes and Kennedy, do you see the Twins flipping Kennedy to fill an offensive hole?”
interesting point tpeichel, of course it would have to be just Kennedy, it really could be any of our young pitchers… Slowey, Blackburn, Boof, etc… depending on what could fetch the most.
No offense to La Velle E. Neal III, but he’s simply wrong. The Mets’ GM just said yesterday that “there’s no pitcher available” who makes him want to trade Reyes, and Santana was specifically mentioned. Also, why would the Yankees include Kennedy when the Red Sox still haven’t upped their offer to include Ellsbury or Buchholz? Why would the Yankees offer more when the Sox won’t budge? It’s ridiculous. The Sox’s stubbornness is actually giving the Yankees leverage. If the Twins don’t jump on this deal now, there’s a good chance the whole thing will disintegrate. The Yankees are panicking right now, but if they actually stopped to look at what the Sox are doing, they would smarten up and back off. They are almost bidding against themselves because the Twins would never accept Coco Crisp, a fairly useless player making money, and Jon Lester, for the best pitcher in baseball.
Boy you guys are suckers. I heard the Yanks are gonna through in AROD too and eat 26 mil of his salary.
This would be an absolute godsend for the Twins. I hope this is true!
harris, you can yell all you want… it appears that Smith isnt going to roll over and hand the Yankees Santana without getting market value back. Hughes and Melkey isnt going to get it done.
If we could get Bucholtz and Ellsbury is that the deal we would take? I do like the Yankee deal alot. Hughes Kennedy and Cabrera is a soild offer.
Any thiughts to the deal we should take?
Boy, there is so much emotional outpouring of slander and anger that I think that there must be something to this rumor. Why else would there be so much angst?
In terms of the proposed deals–Melky Cabrera is an absolute joke. An average outfielder if you take him off the Yankees. Overhyped by the New York Media. Phil Hughes will be good–how good is tough to say. Ian Kennedy–another prospect getting way to much hype out of New York.
Why can’t the Twins ask for Joba Chamberlain? In fact why don’t the Twins DEMAND Joba Chamberlain? They have every right too–Santana is the BEST pitcher in baseball with many more years to come. Who are the Yanks to come off saying that Chamberlain is untouchable. How can anyone be untouchable for the best pitcher in baseball. The TWINS should dictate the terms–not the Yankess.
Mark my words, THERE IS NO WAY THE METS WILL TRADE JOSE REYES. Reyes is a cornerstone in the Mets organization and is unreplaceable. Anyone who thinks that a Reyes-Santana trade is fair is very, very wrong. Sure, Santana is the best pitcher in baseball, but Reyes is the most exciting player in baseball at only 24 years old. Expect him to break some swapped bases records WITH THE METS.
Olney stated an hour ago on ESPN that Kennedy is substituted out for Hughes, and the third player would have to be a second-tier prospect for the Yankees to agree. This is a blatant assumption on the part of Neal.
I strongly believe that the Twins should hold out as long as they can to get as equal value as possible, whether that’s Ellsbury with Lester or Hughes along with Melky and Kennedy. This is a matter of who flinches first. The only way the Mets have a chance is if they deal Reyes and I promise you that will NOT happen. Not a chance.
La Velle,
If the Red Sox don’t get Santana would they be interested in Nathan? They’ve flirted with the idea of making Papelbon a starter before. If so, what kind of package would Nathan bring? Could we get Lester AND Lowrie?
Add that to Hughes/Melky/Tabata and we’re in business.
Or how about Hughes/Kennedy/Tabata from NY and Crisp, Lowrie, and a prospect from Boston?
the yankees are desperate, if the twins told them they were going to deal him to boston why wouldnt they up their offer….also, look for hank to try to make a splash and step into this…….he should just let cashman do this, but i bet he wont
Hey, SanFan, I’m glad you’re a fan of a newspaper that suggested that the Twins could include Silva in a trade and get an even bigger payback. The Pioneer Press is full of hacks who love to make things up because no one reads their paper anyway.
Do yourself a favor, and don’t talk about the Pioneer Press as a respectable news source for sports. You’ve lost your credibility on this blog already…
this is a poorly written article. yankees won’t offer those three prospects. fact is twins need to trade santana as much as the yankees/sox/mets need to pick him up. santana’s value will drop day by day after the season starts. most likely the yankees will pick him up. hughes is a strong enough prospect as it is. they would be lucky to get tabata along with melky and phil. the mets aren’t going to trade reyes btw. that comment exemplifies how much of this article is just pure speculation.
tpeichel,
Doug Melvin indicated to his reporters that he didn’t want to deal his young talent, and that may include Bill Hall.
The Twins’ management needs to remember, and repeat it every minute of each day if needed, that they are in the driver’s seat on this, no one else, period.
DAVE LENTZ, well put.
Neal’s got it all wrong and it ruins his credibility from here on in.
Lavelle has no credibility to begin with. He reports what he hears and he hears what people tell him. Sometimes its right, sometimes its wrong, sometimes its crap. I guarantee you none of the rumors you are hearing from anyone are being carefully vetted with multiple sources. That’s the life of a sports writer. Get over it.
you can’t publish things in newspapers that are not true
hahahahaha
Honestly Crips isn’t that bad.
He is pretty much no par with Cabrera as as hitter, steals more bases, and is a better defender. However Melky is much younger and a fair amount cheaper for the next 2 or 3 years. That means he could still hopefully develop into a better hitter.
As far as people who say the Twins need to pull the trigger, that’s crazy. The deals have gone up between the two teams since Thursday. It’s only 2 days later and the Yanks already gave up Hughes instead of Cabrera. Now ball’s in Red Sox court, if they were to throw in Ellsbury who knows what the Yanks might do.
The tough part is this, the Red Sox don’t have pressure to make a big move. The Yankees do. The best thing that could have happened for this trade to really go sky high would have been the Indian winning the series so the Red Sox would feel they needed to improve too. I’m crossing my fingers that the Red Sox decide to offer up Ellsbury. Not because I want him but that would hopefully scare the Yanks into a Cano Hughes package.
I realize getting Cano is a bit of a pipe dream but with how much the Yankees have already given in, we never know how far it just might go.
Kennedy IS borderline a mid-level pitching prospect. He had a nice little run this year, but with a 90 mph fastball, 4 pitch control pitcher is in any other market a “high level” prospect (think Kevin Slowey). Just because he can contribute this year dosnet move him to elite status.
leiser, the Twins do NOT need to trade Santana as much as others need to pick him up. Remember, the Twins can just as likely let it slide and trade him to a very desperate NYY, BOS, NYM team once the pennant race gets going full blast. you have to remember the Twins don’t mind losing, because it is all about money to Carl and Co., not wins and losses.
Boy Dave MN, You’re joking right?! Tell me you really now that that PP article you linked to was satirical. Please, other wise I won’t be able to sleep tonight. And in the future please don’t use our great state’s initials in your posts, you make us all look like bumpkins.
All the Yankee and Red Sox homers talk like the Twins have to trade Johan and there is no other option so the Twins should take whatever halfway reasonable trade and be happy they got something.
If I’m right they don’t HAVE to trade him at all. They could keep Johan, trade Nathan for a decent infielder, and sign a CF (Rowand, Lofton, Patterson). Go into the season with Johan leading the team and possibly getting Liriano back and try to win the Division. If it looks like it isn’t going to work out then they could trade Santana in July for close to what these 2 teams are currently offering.
Lavelle,
Thanks for sacrificing your weekend so that you can keep Twins fans fed with the latest information. It is appreciated.
I don’t think we realize the competitive nature between the Yankees and Red Sox. Last year the Yankees lost out in the Dice-K sweepstakes. Although I think it is a pipedream to get Hughes and Kennedy in the same deal, don’t count out anything if the Yankees see the Red Sox getting the Edge in the Santana sweepstakes.
Lavelle, thanks for the updates, we know you only report what you hear. We all realize these are just rumors, but some people get a little worked up.
Yeah right! If you believe the Yanks will give up 40% of their rotation for one pitcher, you’re dreamin’.
Let Santana go to a NL team. We’ll compete without him.
as a proponent of full disclosure i want all to know i am a yankee fan.i read la velle’s info on rotoworld and was very incredulous that cashman would include hughes and kennedy in the trade.i am not sure cashman wanted to go with dealing hughes and he may have been over ruled.anyway,i’m trying to get any info i can but i would be very surprised if both pitchers would be dealt.nice site.
There’s more than that one article pointing to Sansevere’s severe lack of sports knowledge, satire or not.
What the Twins should do is pick up Rowand and Wiggington in free agency, then deal Santana to the yanks for Cano, Hughes and another prospect and throw in Rincon to help the yanks with their struggling pen, I think the Steinburner’s could take the bait.
“If I’m right they don’t HAVE to trade him at all. They could keep Johan, trade Nathan for a decent infielder, and sign a CF (Rowand, Lofton, Patterson). Go into the season with Johan leading the team and possibly getting Liriano back and try to win the Division. If it looks like it isn’t going to work out then they could trade Santana in July for close to what these 2 teams are currently offering.”
I think the Twins realize how strong the Indians and Tigers are going to be for the next 2-3 years. They realize the central is not within reach next year so they’re building for 2010.
They WON’T take that bait. Cano is going no where.
You don’t have any money, so thanks for being a minor league team to get players from.
Neal isn’t reporting anything that is confirmed. Even ESPN, Fox Sports, etc…etc…get things wrong everyday, as we know. That said, writing that Reyes is available is pure speculation. Nothing more, nothing less. Anybody who walks away from this report thinking that the Mets have backed down from calling Reyes untouchable is a borderline psychopath.
murry, good point. Here is the thing that should have Twins fans smiling. Right now the market is just going up… Say the Yankees have an offer of (at the very least) Hughes, Cabrara and Tabata on the table- then they decide to trade for Haren and it all falls apart. That isnt such a bad thing, the market will have been set and other teams (every team would LOVE to have Santana- so there are other suiters) will have to meet that bar to even be considered. The Cubs, Mets, Braves, Seattle, Dodgers and Angels might have peices that fit our needs even better.
There is nothing that can be viewed as negative comming from the press the past few days. It appears that we will get a good return for Santana, regardless of where he goes.
FOLKS,
THIS WAS A CRANK BLOGGER AND HE/SHE WILL BE TURNED IN TO THE HIGHER UPS AT THE STRIB. SORRY FOR THE FALSE EXCITEMENT…
“so thanks for being a minor league team to get players from.”
And thank you for developing so much of our talent for us over the years so that we can stay competitive… Guzman, Milton, Hughes, Kenndy, Tabata…
Crap…Neshek gone, too?
What the hell>???? Are they planning to move Cuddy back to 3rd then? THey almost have to. This is crazy. Is that really you La Velle or someone pretending? I like it, I think???? This one’s gotta process a bit.
There’s more than that one article pointing to Sansevere’s severe lack of sports knowledge, satire or not.
What are we going to do with Matsui?
I like him… but how many RFers can a team have?
I find this love for Reyes a little out of order. At best he is a Luis Castillo in his prime. Reyes also completely disappeared in the second half of last year. Additionally Humber and Pelfry both took huge steps back last year. I am far more interested in what the Yankees have to offer than what the Mets have. If LEIII is correct and the yanks have offered Kennedy, Hughes and Melk dawg, you have to take that before Cashman slaps some sense into Hank.
I am a displaced Minnesotan in New York, and it is fun to have the Twins dominating the New York back pages this offseason.
no way… I would love it if it were true… but no way
That must be an imposter, La Velle would put somthing like that in an Update to his original story.
are there two la velle’s?
[…] are they ever.. Mets back in it? Twins Insider
That has to be someone impersonating LENIII. No way that deal is going down.
C’mon, obviously it’s an imposter. Another one is going around spreading rumors that the Phillies got Haren.
LEN III Updated at the top saying that it is EITHER Hughes OR Kennedy right now not both. So those of you ripping LEN lay off he has changed the article.
LEN Thanks for the Update if you are going to Nashville good luck traveling.
I know the Twins have wanted Matsui before, but he has to be expensive… and same with Wang..
And the Yankees do want bullpen help…
this cant be a real offer, I dont believe it.
I agree that LEN would make that a new thread or an update. That is an imposter. My guess is it is either Craig or lion.
The Twins will not trade Neshek they need Bullpen already, especially if they trade Nathan. This is a FAKE!!!!
This is fake La Velle post proving that it is pretty easy for an imposter to post whatever they would like. Don’t believe that is La Velle
[THE REAL LA VELLE: PLEASE STOP DOING THIS. WE HAVE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS AND CAN ENFORCE SANCTIONS].
I do not want to see Wang and Matsui in the Twins uniform…And I do not want to see Neshek go. Heck, I do not want to see Santana go…
I will not believe that trade is going through until there is an update.
Prudholme is right. It takes a lot of skill to spend $200 million and not win squat.
This article was linked by Rotoworld, so there are a lot of eyes on this blog post. It doesn’t take much intelligence to make up a fake trade.
Until an official from the club announces something it is not official…but it is fun sometimes to speculate.
Matsui has a full no-trade clause. It’s a crank.
I don’t know why people are so angry about Hughes and Kennedy being in the same package. The Yanks have prospects in their lower levels that I think the Twins would prefer over Kennedy. He might be our fifth starter this year, but he’d probably be out of the rotation in the next couple of years.
La Velle, you are my most trusted source for speculation. Over the long haul, you’ve done a better job figuring out how reliable your sources are than just about any other “inside report” type journalist I have read, which is a lot of them.
Note: I think La Velle was speculating about the whole Reyes thing.
And if that really is you posting above me about Neshek getting thrown in, La Velle…I’m skeptical. Who would pitch for NY? Also, I like that Smith is making moves, but I hope it’s not a major roster makeover every offseason. I like to stick by some players.
this blog is hysterical.
Looks like nobody really wants Santana that bad.
So don’t trade him already.
Sign him for $20M a year for however many years Cytana wants. If the Twins compete, it’ll be worth it.
If they don’t, he won’t want to stay with the Twins, and they can trade him and get more than they apparently will get for him now.
Sorry folks, there have been a couple crank posts here that I had to clean up. Those individuals will be reported to the higher-ups at the Strib.
I just try to provide info based on talks with sources. My original post said the Yanks offer was BELIEVED to be Cabrera, Hughes and Kennedy and that the Mets MAY re-think their stance on Reyes. Sometimes we get bad information. Sometimes get something that was true a day or two ago but may have changed.
The race to get info first creates such a frenzy….
wtf is everyone wondering about what leniii said about reyes? he said there’s a CHANCE that they MAY RE-THINK adding him to a deal. he didn’t say reyes is available. maybe he will be, maybe he won’t. learn to read.
Can I be LaVelle too?
i have to go but i’ll tell you what i think from a yankee fan.i hate to lose hughes but that’s life.the best the yanks will do is probably hughes,cabrera and 2nd tier prospect.i agree with romer that the twins can simply walk away and see if they can get in a race with liriano coming back.both sides have to decide what makes sense for them and go no further.
A Trade of Santana baseballs best pitcher sgould net 3-4 players from either the Yankee’s, Met’s,RedSox or Dodgers.
Players all should be the cream of the crop.
So, hold out for the Hughes, Ellsburys, Chamberlins, top players.
If not ride it out!
Win Twins!
Hughes and Kennedy may be legit - only time will tell. What’s a certainty however is that the Yankee hype machine works overtime on kids coming up through the system. That’s why guys like Homer Bush are able to be put into deals for Roger Clemens.
They treat Melky Cabrera like a young Griffey Jr. - same way they did with guys like Juan Rivera and Ricky Ledee. Who’s the last prospect they traded that amounted to anything? At least the Sox (Hanley Ramirez, Freddy Sanchez) have a better track record of quality youngsters.
Whats the story on Alberto gonzalez? is he a major league SS? Does Melkey Cabrera have the ability to lead off? I believe that two stud pitchers ( Hughes,Kennedy) and two servicable players like Gonzalez and cabrera would be justified for Johann
I don’t know how the Strib has these blogs set up, but it should be pretty easy to password-protect the names “La Velle”, “Joe C”, and “Howard”.
Anybody got an idea what Nathan would return in a trade?
One A prospect, one B prospect?
LaVelle,
Any truth that the Padres & BoSox are talking a Headley & Crisp trade? I’d much rather have Headley than Crisp or Ellsbury.
Just added a link to a Ken Rosenthal update. Rosey is pretty good, and he mentions a couple players I haven’t heard.
One Twins official told me they have been offered multiple prospects who are a couple years away, but the Twins demand talent that’s more polished…and talented.
LEN III
Everything I have read/heard, which is obviously not as much as you have, says that the Yankees decided they would include Hughes INSTEAD OF Kennedy. Is that what you are hearing? Do you know what other prospects that the Yankees have that the Twins are interested in? I have heard Tobata and Jackson is their another pitching prospect in high A or AA that the Twins are interested in? Thanks again
Well if we can’t get exactly who we want, lets sign Santana. It was reported that we were 40 mil short, so why not 6 years 120? Maybe a little less who knows how much he would want because he would rather stay. We offered 20 million a year and a couple more. I think most of us would agree Santana will be in his 40s pitching well. So I think it’s time to step up. Seriously we are forking over millions for this team in the form of a new ballpark. Not to mention our love. One the other hand if the angels gave up 90 million for Hunter I’m sure Santana can bring in way more than he is worth. It will be nice to be on the other side of a Herschel Walker trade.
If we do trade, we have to go after a good free agent 3b or CF. No more average vetrens to hope they play well. This move would help Nathan stay excited about the Twins and possibly stay if we went to the playoffs this year.
Dward
Why do you think Santana will pitch well in his 40’s? Also Santana is going to ask for almost $25 million per season for 6 or 7 years. So the Twins are really closer to $60 million apart from what Santana wants. Do you think the Twins will up their offer that much? Not going to happen.
I beleive the Angels and Dodgers have better need players for the Twins, but that the Marlins are pitting them against each other for Cabrera, just as Mr. Smith is pitting the Red Sox and the Yanks against each other.
Getting a package such as Brandon Wood, Reggie Willits and a major league starter (Saunders/Weaver) would be a good trade for the Twins.
Don’t let the Media convince you one way or another Smith. Get the best possible deal. This is Santana, not some average pitcher. We deserve good players in return, otherwise it’s not fair.
Also, if we got Jose Reyes, I would probably scream in excitement. That would be aboslutely amazing, and put us right back into contention.
[…] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptSaturday update: The Twins Will Not Compromise [update] Saturday, December 1st, 2007 The Yankees and Red Sox are the two main teams talking to the Twins about lefthander Johan Santana as of now. The Yankees have included righthander Phillip Hughes to its offer, which is believed to be Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy. [2:55 UPDATE: Someone following the Yankees situation just told me that New York prefers to hold on to Hughes or Kennedy, so we’ll see how this plays out). The Red Sox wan […]
Kevin,
I agree. But the Dodger’s don’t want to pay it, and the Angels want Cabrera.
DEC 1:
LEN-
Any news on whether the Twins are going to offer arbitration today to Craig Monroe or are they non-tendering him?
LaVelle…what do you think? Is Bill Smith, et al, seriously contemplating this offer (with Hughes) from the Yankees?
I came across this from Ken Rosenthal:
“The Twins are expected to speak again with the Red Sox today about trading ace lefthander Johan Santana, according to sources, but the Red Sox have been unwilling to include center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury in the same package as lefthander Jon Lester, and their position is not likely to change.
If the Red Sox are unable to satisfy Minnesota’s trade demands, the Yankees are poised to pounce. They decided Friday night to include pitcher Phil Hughes in a possible package with center fielder Melky Cabrera in an effort to land Santana, according to multiple reports.
The sticking point now is the third player in the deal, according to sources. The Yankees are adamant that they do not want to include another top prospect, but the Twins are asking for players such as Class AAA shortstop Alberto Gonzalez and Class AA right-hander Alan Horne.”
[…] In a post to his blog for the Star-Tribune, Twins columnist La Velle E. Neal III writes… […]
If some of you think that Hughes and Cabrera is anywhere close to get a deal done, we HAVE TO HOLD ON TO SANTANA. That is about as horrible as a trade as you can get for the best pitcher in baseball.
LEN - Keep us informed and may all Yankee fans who are here go back to their New York Websites and cry about their spilled milk (aka - overrated Kennedy and Cabrera)
Hughes, Cabrera, Gonzalez and a low level pitching prospect for Santana and Rincon.
Yankees get there starter and relief help. We fill tree holes and free up salary for any FA we would be interested in.
its very good to hear that Bill Smith will not compromise, and hold out for max value, and want he wants, or be willin gto walk away.
We forget, the worst that can happen for now is no trade is made at winter meetings, and we STILL have the best pticher in baseball. That isnot a bad thing. And, there is still plenty of time to make a deal, sign him and make a deal later, or just keep him.
There is absolutely no reason to be in a nervous nellie panic about unloading him now. The trade opportunities for Johan will always be there for a few months, up till early June, and up till then, it is in our interests to hold out for maximum value, and by that I mean players these teams say they would neer give up
The Yankees really should add that Gonzalez kid to the mix.
Monroe’s deadline is Dec. 12.
Today’s deadline is for ranked free agents. That doesn’t include Silva because he didn’t even qualify as a Type B free agent.
I’ve gotta run some errands. Check out the Strib tomorrow for my Twins Insider that lays out the Santana situation.
Yes, let’s piss other clubs off to no end so that they pursue other starters (e.g. Haren or Bedard) so that we’re left with a lame duck starter and virtually no chance to sign him.
Oh wait, we’ll have two draft picks.
Dward, you are exactly right, if we dont get exactly what we want for Johan, sign him, htat does not close the door for all time
if we show a willingness to do that, then it will only help us get a better return
you can tell some of these neervous nellies in here who want a deal now have never negotiated for business
GOD ALMIGHTY, there’s no chance we’re signing him!!! It’s not going to happen…
Is there something to Alberto Gonzalez that I’m not seeing? Granted, all I know of him are his stats, but his career minor league stats are .278/.329/.383. I know he is a SS, but his 2007 AAA line of .247/.300/.362 line as a 24 year old does not excite me at all.
Yep,
You’re right, my bad. Messed the two dates up.
My bad.
Chill Todd.
I don’t believe they will either.
I’m fine…but I read nonsensical posts here on a routine basis.
the chances we sign Johan are poor, I agree
but in order to best negotiate, we have to be willing to do that
only by demonstrating a willingness to do that are we going to max our trade for now
other teams will not pony up top talent if they think we think we NEED to trade him
the headline on this post says Bill Smith will not compromise.
What does this mean? It means if he doesnt get exactly the deal he wants, he walks.
I believe it means that he will hold out for what he wants and not cave until he gets it.
As long as you have multiple suitors, that position works. Once you get down to one or two, it becomes a little more risky.
Just out of curiousity - what was the fake trade that was posted? From what I can gather Twins would have added Neshek and Yankees include Wang and Matzsui. Sounds like a riot.
Can anyone post names from the FAKE TRADE?
Thanks
The fake trade that was posted was Neshek and Santana for Wang, Matsui, Hughes, and Cabrera.
Kevin
Teams already know that we NEED to trade him. There is no way I want to see Santana start the season if he isn’t signed long term and the Twins are not going to give him $150 million extension. You need to trade him now while these teams still have the prospects the Twins want. Otherwise as noted they will move on and trade for other players. Twins fans don’t realize that there are plenty of other starting pitchers that can be traded for:
Haren
Bedard
Kazmir
Willis
Blanton
Harden
Padilla
Hill
The list goes on and on. I realize that Santana is at the top of that list but he is also going to cost the most prospects and the most money. You may think we have the upper hand but really it isn’t that way.
Thanks
Stop the presses. LOL
Nice one, LEN.
I mean… La Velle (ugh).
Another LaVelle?
John-
I agree about Gonzalez. I don’t see why the Yanks would care about trading him, especially with Jeter in the way, and I don’t see why the Twins are interested in him. Does anyone have thoughts on why Gonzalez would be a good addition?
I am saying the angels may still be in this hunt how bout matthews,willits, weaver, saunders, wood. They have a lot to offer. We all are predicting but watch some team out of blue will offer something better. The kicker in all of this is santana can say no to any of this. If he wants to play in NY and collect his money let him. If I were him I would go to someone who wants to win.(Angels, Boston) Look the angels are the twins with money PERIOD. They play hard but have an owner who spends money.
The fake trade actually didn’t sound like a bad one at all, at least if the Yanks paid some of the salary.
Still, Neshak would have been a hard pill to swallow, especially with Nathan on his way out.
“I’ve gotta run some errands.”
I hope your errands involve eating a steak and washing it down with a couple beers…
I don’t think anything happens until monday or tuesday at the earlist. That should be a nice balance between patiance and having some time to work on other moves at the winter meetings.
Mike
Gonzalez is expected to be a gold glove caliber SS for many years. He needs work offensively but is said to be a great defensive player. He would be the Twins starting SS next year if they get him.
A link to Alberto Gonzalez information:
http://yankeeprospects.blogspot.com/2007/02/prospect-profile-alberto-gonzalez.html
I agree on Gonzalez. Good arm, some patience at the plate, but I am not convinced he is any better Alexi Casilla as a SS prospect.
It is notable that the above link was written before this past season, his offensive numbers were below his minor league averages.
Everything I read about him taughts his defense, especially his arm. But the author of the above post compared him to David Eckstein… not exactly a star, but defnanitly good enough to play for the Twins this year.
What do you think about Eric Duncan for 3b?
In my mind should be 4 players coming to Minnesota for the best pitcher in Baseball Johan Santanna.
RedSox: Bullcholz, Ellsbury, Lester and player to be named.
Yankees: Hughes, Kennedy, Gonzales, and Tabata.
Mets: Reyes, Gomez,Parnel, Pelfrey
DodgersL Kershaw, Laroche, Elbert and Kemp.
Angles: Adenhart, Wood, Weaver and Saunders.
Proven Major leaguer for top prospects.
Smith holds out until someone Pops forward.
Win Twins!
Greg that’s fine if that’s what you want but you aren’t going to get it. The only offer that you mentioned that MIGHT happen is the Yankees offer and the Twins want a CF so that probably isn’t going to happen either. Plus I don’t think the Yankees are going to give up Kennedy and Hughes.
I hope in the name of the ghost of Chuck Knoblauch they take a package of Hughes, Cabrera, Tabata and Duncan/Gonzalez/Michael Kay/Phil Rizutto’s Corpse so that I can stop feverishly checking the internet every half an hour and my fiancee quits accusing me of having an internet affair.
I still wouldn’t get excited about Gonzalez coming to the Twins, but the way his defense was described I can understand a little more why the Twins want him. Thanks for the link.
Why would he be compared to Eckstein if Gonzalez has such an amazing arm? Eckstein has a terrible arm.
Jama,
if they do u saw it first hear. I hope whomever they do end up trading with that some of these guys are the ones.
Win Twins!
Jesse Eric Duncan isn’t a real prospect anymore than Josh Rabe is at this point and he can no longer play 3b either.
I hope this deal gets done soon too. I hate waiting for such a big thing.
I hope we get an update on how the talks with the Red Sox went…
Greg, nobody is going to give THAT much to the Twins. Especially considering the team will be negotiating with Santana for $100+ mil.
Greg,
You need to get your head examined.
I think I everybody needs to remember what we are trading away - Santana’s services for ONE YEAR. Yeah, I know the team that gets him will actually get him for 5 or 6 years because they’ll have to negotiate resigning him before he okays the trade. But, if he’s not traded, one of the same four or five teams will get him in 2009 a nd WITHOUT giving up some of their best players. I think he WILL be traded, but I think it factors into what teams are willing to trade for him. So I don’t think it’s any use demanding a trade for equal talent. We will get alot for Santana compared with what we’ll get if we don’t trade him and he walks after ‘08.
An interesting tid bit for all you Twins fans. If Hughes and Cabrera are offered and your GM doesn’t take it he is a complete idiot and should quit his job. Dispite what all you think Melky is one of the best fielders I’ve ever seen at times, and makes stupid decisions every now and again that lead to his feilding numbers not looking great. I’ve watch well over 100 Yankee games each year since YES has came out and Hughes and Cabrera are the real deal. Does anyone remember Hughes had a no hitter going through 7 when he hurt his Hamstring. He will be more consistant then Liriano and will win more games. His stats won’t look as amazing but he’ll win 14+ games every year for a long time.
Another thing, if Melky is included, Jackson won’t be and probly neither will Tabata.
I as a Yankee fan honestly can say I would never incude Melky, Hughes, and Kennedy in a deal unless we would get something else with Santana. Santana wants to be a Yankee and be the best pitcher in the best city, so what ever is offered they should take.
To me Kennedy/Cabrera/Horne OR Kennedy/Horne/Gonzalez/Tabata OR Hughes/Tabata/Gonzalez seem about right. Get thoughts of Santana coming back and signing cheap next year IF he isnt traded and then comment about my offer. I think they all are good players and will be in the majors next year sometime.
The Yanks are offering Hughes, Cabrera and another prospect. Kennedy is off the table, since the Twins insisted on Hughes. The Mets are not trading Reyes. The Mets GM has been rather strong on that.
The Yanks should pass on Santana. But they can’t afford the Twins trading him to Redsox
asyf:
“Santana wants to be the best pitcher in the best city.”
When did either of the Chicago teams get in the race?
Melky Cabrera has horrible offensive numbers
Can people stop using Hughes no-hitter through 7 as proof that he is going to be so great? I like Hughes a lot, but that is ridiculous. Scott Baker had a perfect game through 8 and 1/3 innings, and no one is suggesting that he’s going to be a future ace. A no-hitter/perfect game just means a pitcher was great on one night, and it has little to do with the value of a prospect.
Just look at how hughes season ended, 4+ ERA, thats not an ace
asyf,
By the way, I pretty much agreed with everything else you said. I’d be more than happy with just Hughes and Cabrera. But in January. Now Smith should keep pushing for more.
I’d much more prefer him to go to the NL, then we’ll never have to face him, that would be the best choice for the twins.
HEY TWINKIES FANS.
THE YANKEES WILL ROB YOU CLOWNS LIKE THE AAA TEAM YOU CHEAPSKATES ARE. WE’LL GIVE YOU HUGHES BUT YOU’LL NEVER TOUCH CANO OR KENNEDY IN THE DEAL. SORRY, BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME.
P.S. NEW YORK IS THE GREATEST STATE IN THE U.S. DON’T BE JEALOUS THAT YOU DON’T LIVE HERE. I’M SURE MINNY-SODA IS A NICE STATE BUT NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING COMPARED TO WHERE I’M FROM.
OH AND THANKS FOR SANTANA. HE IS THE MISSING PIECE TO OUR WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONSHIP
BJ,E:The whole point of trading for him now is to ensure that you don’t get out bid for him in free agency.It’s not about one year,it’s about having exclusive negotiating rights to him.Who ever trades for him will give him what he wants or they wouldn’t be talking trade in the first place.Thats why they are willing to trade for him.It’s like the one “unnamed” Yankee exec said,if you want to ensure that he doesn’t go to somebody else,you go get him.
Well that was a little rude.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7501338
Very good article, I agree with nearly everything said…
IT MAY HAVE BEEN RUDE BUT IT’S THE TRUTH.
NEW YORK OWNS YOUR ENTIRE STATE AND TEAMS. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOUR LITTLE CHOO-CHOO TRAIN SQUAD EVER BEAT US IN A MEANINGFUL GAME?
THE YANKEES HAVE MORE TALENT IN THEIR MINORS THAN THE TWINS DO ON THEIR MLB SQUAD. WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE TWINKIES AND THEIR 2ND RATE FANS?
SORRY THE TRUTH HURTS.
If you’re going to insult our team so rudely, could you at least not do it in all caps so that it’s a little easier on the eyes?
In my entry, I admitted everything you said, Doug. Sorry you didn’t catch it.
I’m just saying you are trading for what it is: negotiating rights. You don’t necessarily have to give up the equal level of talent. If Santana was in the second year of a five-year deal I’d say no way you trade him for less than four or five guys. All the Twins are really trading away here is about 33 starts in 2008. Remember too that Santana has the final say. Just because Smith agrees to which player the Twins receive, doesn’t mean its a done deal. Santana has the final say and it’s going to take a ton of money. Otherwise, Santana will just wait it out a year. Am I right on that. The bidding doesn’t stop after you agree to send the players.
I think someone got a hold of Giambi’s roids! Ever heard the term meathead? you fit it nicely.
To YANKEES OWN TWINS im sure NY is a better state if you are the type who likes to get mugged and deal with idiot foul mouthed jerks every day. As far as the trade goes you may just be surprised what gets giving up to get santana
I think the Twins already know which teams Santana will allow himself to be traded to.This may have something to do with why the two LA teams aren’t more heavily envolved.I read somewhere this morning in one of the many news reports that Santana isn’t to keen on the west coast.I’m sure that Smith has asked him where he prefers to go otherwise he could be barking up the wrong tree.
I’m first to post again!
alright. i had to say it!
cuz everyone knows that someone does it all the time..
just poking a little fun. hahaha
Jose, Jose, Jose, Jose, Jose!!!
Jabberroon, you are right Santana obviously can choose not to sign if he doesn’t like the offer. However, I believe Steinbrenner has said that, after all these discussions, money will not prevent the trade from being done. I could be wrong, but I believe he said something to that extent.
YANKEES OWN TWINS.
Answer me this.
when was your last WS?
shut your mouth when your talking to me boy
Jed Lowrie is the prize the Twins will wish they got for Johan.
i said it once and ill say it again
TWINS VS YANKS, GAME 7 in the BRONX
Liriano vs Johan.
Delmon Young hits a Solo Shot
Twins win 1-0!
whatcha gon say bout that? Dont tell me Johan wont give up a HR.. I’ve seen it with my own eyes!
If the Twins get a deal they like the trade will be made.Santana isn’t going to turn down a five- six year 130-150M dollar deal.What if he gets hurt this year.I’m betting that the teams he’d go to have already been talked about and the money isn’t an issue to the Yankees in particular.
YANKEES OWN TWINS- you embody everything everyone hates about Yankee fans. Thanks for reminding us that you are a bunch of abrassive, egotistical, jerks.
Good luck with this trade, you better hope it turns out a little better than the Chuck Knobloch trade…
Not to defend that new york clown but I wouldnt mention WS since we havent won since 91 and thiers last WS win was not that long ago.
lets go Mountaineers! Lets go Drink some Beers!
And Yankee stadium is built for hitters, Santana WILL give up more HR than he ever has here.
mh, it must be nice playing TB, Baltimore and Toronto all those games - and still having to watch the Red Sox win it every year.
If NY had to operate on the Twins budget…
Jackson and Stick, sure but the twins are still in the drivers seat!! I just listed players and any combination of these players works. Doesn”t matter that the team is signing to an extension they are getting Johan.
Stick: if we get these guys then i will get my head examined!!
LOL
YANKEES OWN TWINS- great job by the yankees the last 7 years!! hahaha with the the highest payroll in baseball you think you could do a little better than that! hahahaha
jabberoon
haha
i bet nick the stick takes johan deep this year…
you cant mess with liriano.
mr uh oh
mh, Too bad Donny Baseball was too much of a lunkhead to get the manager’s job..
yankees own twins, how about those giants last week? oh, and boston has won two since your last one. awfully quiet.
Well, all I can say is this: Yanks are gonna PAY Santana, and DEARLY too. If they want to trade for the opportunity to negotiate a contract with him, to make him the richest pitcher ever, you will NEED to put up your own best prospects to have this right.
Once you do, you can then deal with CyTana.
Good luck, that is all I can say.
I like how some Yankee fan started a website to save Phil Hughes.
even with Johan
what is the yanks rotation?
Do all of you basically agree that there is no line the Yankees won’t cross, no amount that is too much for NY to get Santana?
And what’s with the Yankees paying Mariano Rivera 45 million for 3 years? The last time i saw him play, he sucked!!!
I think there is a line, once the twins start asking for Cano and Hughes in the same deal, there going to pull out.
jabberoon
it bothers me when the yanks say Cano is untouchable,
and the sox say ellsbury is untouchable..
because your exactly right.. we are talking about johan.. no one is untouchable.
not even jose reyes
mh, NY and Boston are really scared to death the other team is going to get Johan, aren’t they?
The Mets are stupid, just look who they traded milledge for
I think a perfect package would be, Cano/Kennedy/ some minor league prospect
Any posts with capital letters that are posted here should be deleted, it is like shouting when talking to someone, very rude indeed!
UPDATE, 12-1-07 at noon: Buster Olney says the Yanks’ upgraded offer is now on the table, but the Twins will meet with the Red Sox this afternoon to see if they can get Theo Epstein to include both Ellsbury and Buchholz.
haha.. not sure where that post came from..
dang copy and past
Go straight up for Ellsbury.
Just look at how hughes season ended, 4+ ERA, thats not an ace
A 4.46 ERA with a 1.28 WHIP out of a 21-year-old who had never pitched above AA entering the year is outstanding. Do you recall what Johan was doing as a 21-year-old with the Twins?
(hint: 6.49 ERA and a 1.81 WHIP)
Hey Yanks fan. Please dont use all caps I think it is rude. I dont know if has been said but with your payroll you should own the state and a couple others. Just how many titles do you have with A-Rod? 00000 and will continue even if you get more greedy players. We should trade him to a real TEAM the Boston Red Soxs. And by the way it is true EVERY New Yorker is RUDE
Jed Lowrie is the prize the Twins will wish they got for Johan.
I doubt it. He will hit, but just enough to make up for his fielding. He will be a roto-shortstop. If he ends up at third or even second his bat is going to be nothing special.
snepp, i totally agree with you, my point was right now were not sure where he will end up an ace and i was trying to piss off the yankees fan
This guy who wrote this story is full of it. There is NO way the Yankees give up two pitchers for ANYBODY. Not even Cy Young.
Let’s back up a second. I have this theory that states that no matter what a team actually needs, its GM always thinks it need pitching. An extension of that has been in play over the last week or so, where the imagined offers for Santana all center around a couple of highly-touted pitching prospects, with hitters generally being secondary elements. This would seem to make sense, because the Twins have to replace Santana, and who doesn’t love cost-controlled pitchers with upside? The problem with this in this case is that the Twins are lousy with cost-controlled pitchers with upside, and have approximately four players capable of putting up a 775 OPS in their entire organization, even after the Delmon Young acquisition.
As Doug has pointed out, the Twins are well aware of teams that Santans is willing to be traded to and those teams are sure well aware of the money it will take to extend his contract. So it goes without saying the Sox and Yankees would be the ones that can afford it the most.
Johan doesn’t want that dirty water!
is that yanks fan gone
“We should trade him to a real TEAM the Boston Red Soxs. And by the way it is true EVERY New Yorker is RUDE”
By this statement I could say all people from Minnesota are ignorant, judgemental horses $#%#$, but since NOT ALL NY’ERS ARE THE SAME, I won’t 
Never really been that far east but New Yorkers can’t be worse than White Sox fans.
ESPN has an article saying the twins may be at the apex for trade offers
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3136495
Smith better get it done quick, Hughes, Cabrera and Jackson or Gonzalez.
I have feeling that Santana will end up with Twins and possible re-sign sometime later Spring. It good that GM Smith is demand alot of good young players for Santana. I pray that Twins will give Santana long term. GO TWINS
Yeah I read that on ESPN but it still doesn’t say anything thats going on…
I don’t think we are lacking any knowledge
Boston’s offer on the table before Saturday’s talks included pitcher Jon Lester, center fielder Coco Crisp and minor league infielder Jed Lowrie. A fourth player — a minor league pitcher — is to be determined. The Twins have wanted the Red Sox to add either Ellsbury or Buchholz to the deal, and there are indications that if the Red Sox add Buchholz or Ellsbury, theirs is the offer that Minnesota would prefer.
For now, however, the Yankees are right in the thick of the bidding, having decided in internal discussions on Friday to offer Hughes rather than Ian Kennedy intp their offer, along with Cabrera and a third player — in all likelihood, a minor leaguer. The Yankees have told the Twins that the third player can’t be any of their best young players — Kennedy or Joba Chamberlain or second baseman Robinson Cano, for example, but a second-tier prospect.
here.. read this..
the espn article just tells me that the “untouchable” ellsbury is not untouchable..
and that the untouchable joba and cano.. are not untouchable..
YOU GUYS ARE IDIOTS TO RIP ON NEW YORK AND THE YANKEES. THIS IS A FACT: THE YANKEES OWN THE TWINKIES LIKE B*TCHES AND NEW YORK IS 10x THE STATE MINNY-SODA IS. I’M SURE MINNY-SODA IS A NICE PLACE AND ALL BUT EVERYTHING PALES IN COMPARISON TO THE GREATEST CITY AND STATE IN THE WORLD.
NOT ONLY DOES OUR TEAM OUTCLASS YOUR TRIPLE A ORGANIZATION BUT NEW YORKERS ARE GENUINELY BETTER THAN MINNESOTANS. NICE FARGO-ACCENTS BTW. YOU GUYS ARE BENEATH US. YOUR TEAM’S ONLY PURPOSE IN BASEBALL IS TO PUMP AND DEVELOP TALENT FOR TEAMS LIKE US, CHICAGO, LA, AND ALL THE REAL MARKETS.
MINNY-SODA IS NOTHING. YOUR TEAMS ARE NOTHING. YOUR RESIDENTS ARE NOTHING.
I’M SORRY IF THE TRUTH HURTS BUT YOU CAN’T DENY IT.
Yankees are crazy to give up Hughes, I do not blame the Twins for asking for him.. but New York and Boston both have the tools needed to once again be the two best teams in baseball without Santana..
mets have a hole in RF..
and ive been saying this for awhile..
what if cuddy is the linchpin to the reyes deal.
santana/cuddy
for reyes, gomez, pelfrey, mulvey and another prospect or two
I still want Johan in the NL pitching for the Dodgers. Bring on Kemp, LaRoche, and a body (Kershaw?).
Twins ARE SMART not to let Boston talk them in to taking Boo Boo as part of a deal.. oops.. meant Coco.. the bench warmer..
yankees own twins.
yea.. we build up great players and you guys dont win with em..
i dont get it..
how many santanas do you need before you win? how many knoblochs?
i mean. giambi.. now that was a winner.
mussina was a winner as well.
twins will always build up players that get sent to the yanks..
but the yanks dont know how to win.
funny.. cuz boston figured it out!
Reyes declined huge in the last half of the season last year, he is not that important. Cuddy is a good player keep him.
100 run and 100 rbi guys are hard to come by.
jesse
id take reyes over cuddy any day of the week
i think alot of people would
Santana should insist on an NL team. He loves to hit, and how many Ks will he end up with if he gets to face the pitcher four/five at-bats a game?
Ks are his big thing anyway - not Ws.
You may like the Dodgers’ prospects best and want Johan to pitch in the NL (and I agree with both of those), but the fact is the Dodgers don’t want Johan for anywhere near that price, as they’re looking to improve their hitting. The Dodgers won’t just do the deal because it’s what the Twins want.
Answer: 115 extra Ks for Johan
HEY MH,
WHAT DOES IT MATTER TO YOU? WE’VE BEEN CLOSER TO A WORLD SERIES THAN YOU’LL EVER BE AGAIN.
SANTANA IS THE KEY TO A WORLD SERIES RING
Nolan and Greg
I agree with both of you. Dont trade him unless we get top value, and I will not be surprised if the Twins do re sign him.
I would bet against it, but I would not be surprised.
The bottom line is anything any of us say in hare are just opinions. Nobody here knows much, and it doesnt really matter what we say. Smith isnt reading these boards to see what he should do.
But I was pleased to see the headline that he will not compromise.
dude we actually do it the right way..we dont need to blow $200 mill to try and but the best team that doesnt even get to the world series every year let alone get out of the first round of the playoffs..we actually draft and groom our players..unlike the yankees until the past 2 yrs..if spending $200 mill plus gurantedd a world series victory every team would do it, but wait it doesnt..so u keep spending and we will keep a competitve team on the firld more yrs than not
Dear “Yankees Own The Twins”…
As someone that lived in NY for 2 years I couldn’t agree with you more.
Us in “Minny-Soda” w/ our Fargo accents dream that one day we can have a dialect that sounds as sophisticated and evolved as those of you in NY. I for own know that every time your vocal inflections are portrayed in media it is usually in the role of physician, professor, or chemist.
I would much rather be a glorified AAA team, then the most expensive baseball retirement home in the world.
BTW, Thanks for letting us unload Knoblauch
How ’bout them Knicks/Jets/Giants?
PhatBottom,
I am sorry if I offended u but truly YANKEES OWN TWINS is very rude and makes NY look bad. I am sorry we are not as perfect as NY but you know what I am proud of the state I am from and WE have good people here. He just made me mad and I we dont deserve to be ripped on
eli manning who???
The Mets do not have a hole in RF. They have Carlos Gomez who is much better than Lastings Millege who will be their everyday starter this year.
In a straight up trade yes, especially if you look at what Reyes will be paid for the next four years, but with Santana for those prospects, no. Cuddyer is a player other teams would love to have. Great hitter and will only get better, great fielding and versatility (RF, LF, 1B, 3B if needed) and has an absolute rocket for an arm. Good work ethic, personality, etc. I think he will step up a lot as for as leadership with Hunter gone, he is very well spoken.
According to Buster Olney’s updated article on ESPN.com, the Red Sox have brought a “new mix” to the table.
yankees own twins
not sure what your trying to prove.
my point is your rotation is enourmous,
you have talent at every position
and you still dont win..
id love to see you lose with johan.. cuz the yanks are not winners..
boston gets it.. they have pitching..
with johan
who is your rotation?
pettite? - sucks
clemens- youll bring him back. you will
johan
igawa - mr sunglasses.. he sucks
wang -
mussina - please.. rotation is terrible
The Twins are able to play the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and others off against each other.
It’s a kick to see fans of these other clubs posting here in a cold sweat because they know their team must keep upping the the ante to stay in this game of high stakes.
Do not compromise, Mr. Smith. Let the offers come to you. If no one meets your demands, keeping Johan as the opening night starter is fine, too.
Looks like it might be your turn, Boston…play or fold? Dodgers, you wanna get in? Hee hee. This is fun!
I have this theory that states that no matter what a team actually needs, its GM always thinks it need pitching.
That’s because, no matter what its other needs, a team always needs more pitching. When you add a premier starter, unlike any other position, he doesn’t replace the next best player. He replaces the worst starter on the team.
Likewise, you have five starters. That’s five chances for one of them to get hurt or fail for some other reason. So even your 6th starter, going into the year, is pretty likely to play a significant role in the team’s chances.
And, pitchers are both more fragile and their performance more volatile than position players. The chances of injury or failure are high.
That’s why the saying “you can never have too much pitching” is so popular.
just ignore Yanks Own Twins, hes an insecure loser looking for attention.
By responding to him you are just letting him get his little fix of attention.
Yeah, I saw that, but he doesn’t real give us any clue to what that is. Let’s hope it’s Ellsbury/Buchholz/Lowrie! (Just kidding- that trade would already be done if they offered it.)
Hey YANKEES OWN TWINS,
It’s getting late in NY. Shouldn’t you be dumping your trash out into the street?
SANTANA IS THE KEY TO A WORLD SERIES RING
yea.. so was
mussina
giambi
clemens
doug meintkeivitz (BOSTON WON WITH HIM, AND YOU CANT??) hahaha
johnny Damon was the key.. AGAIN, BOSTON WINS WITHOUT DAMON.. ODD
Sheffield was the key to a ring.. umm how many ya got?
pettite - still waiting on that one
abreu - he will win a ring.. im sure of it.. right? good ole bobby
matsui - he has WS title written all over him!
i mean come on.. now your telling me JOHAN is the key? please shut your mouth..
yankees on twins..
ohh yea..
i forgot the biggest fish of em all
AROD.. but wait.. you won a world series with him.. didnt you??
oh yea.. you havent.. funny
Fran,
Would you rather have Jacoby Ellsbury for the next five to six years, or Johan for 33 more starts in a Twins uniform?
Fran, you are right on the money, drive up the bidding and if you still dont get what you want, Johan in a TWins uniform on opening day still looks good
I get a kick out of the nervous nellies in here seeing how soon and how fast we can trade Johan, as though if we dont trade him within a week he will have no value
HEY HENT KRBECK,
AT LEAST YOU ADMIT YOUR ENVY. DON’T WORRY THOUGH. MINNY-SODA WILL NEVER BE NEW YORK BUT WE’LL STILL LOVE YOU….AS OUR B*TCHES.
I LIKE SEEING INFERIOR TEAMS LIKE THE TWINKIES HAVING TO SURRENDER TOP TALENT TO US. JUST REMEMBER YOU ARE OUR FARM TEAM. NOTHING MORE. JUST DON’T GET GREEDY NOW. WE ARE GIVING YOU HUGHES WHO IS MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR SANTANA AS IT IS.
THE YANKEES WILL ALWAYS OWN THE TWINS. SOMETHINGS WILL NEVER CHANGE. JUST DEAL WITH IT.
Jeb, good point, but the ironic truth here is that you only get a great return in a trade if you are willing to wlak away and not make the trade,
its like Ronald Reagan saying the way to attain peace is to prepare for war.
the opposite is like Neville Chamberlain giving up the sudatenland to Hitler and calling it peace in our time
Negotiating is the same way. YOu maximize your gains if you are prepared to walk away if you dont get them, and the other side sees you are prepared to do just that
People who feel like they have to shout (or use ALL CAPS) really have nothing to say. And are minimally endowed.
yankees own twins.
atleast make a point when your saying something
you say the same thing.. please..
OH AND NICE WIN BY THE VIQUEENS BEATING THE GIANTS. I’M A JETS FAN. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THOSE 2ND RATE TRASH OR WHINY LOSER ELI MANNING.
HOW ABOUT THE T-LOSERS? KNICKS BEAT THEM EARLIER THIS YEAR.
NEW YORK OWNS MINNY-SODA
Kevin, so true. I am in no way saying just ask for one player. But, if it comes down to that in a few months, you are still way ahead.
get a life YANKEES OWN
Terry Ryan took the you can never have too much pitching to an extreme.
of course that is true, but while you can never have too much pitching, the Twins have had a bigger lack of hitting than pitching.
Trading away CAstillo was a huge blunder, when instead he should have unloaded Garza at that time, and had a chance to win.
You will recall that bonehead move by Ryan is the one that got Hunter and Santana so upset, proving to them, rightfully, the Twins dotn lookk like they want to win.
Your moniker is grammatically incorrect.
Jeb…ellsbury isn’t on the table (yet, hee hee, but wait a little while more), so I haven’t given that much thought.
Didn’t the Knick just get thrashed by like 40 points the other night. And, yeah, being a Jets fan isn’t anything like rooting for those “loser” Giants.
Just curious, what trade do Twins fans like more: Hughes+Melky or Ellsbury+Lester, if the Red Sox ever decided to offer it?
yanks own twins
vikings beat the jets in preseason.
do you research before you open your mouth?
twolves are a much better position then the knicks..
do you know anything about sports?
soon youll say your a redsox fan…
hahaha
i enjoy talking to ya.
cuz you dont know anything!@!!
Lavallie can u block him?
Jacoby Is My Homey:
Ellsbury+Lester
Ya i hope if the twins do trade johan to the yankees and they pay him a ton of money. because he deserves it and also it will not matter because they still cant beat the Red Sox! hahaha
Kevin, what could the Twins realistically gotten for Castillo? The Twins weren’t going anywhere - they were fighting to stay above .500. I wouldn’t say it was “huge”, but definately not the greates deal either.
Get. Over. Castillo.
He wasn’t going to be worth draft picks at the end of the season, and the Twins weren’t winning WITH him, they weren’t going to go to the postseason ANYWAY.
scouts have said ellsbury will be nothing more than a good outfielder.not a great one..they say he is a 10-12 hr guy if that..his value might be higher now because of how he played down the stretch and in the playoffs
mick, ignore him, hell go away
hes an insecure loser sitting in his parents basement in their cheap rambler and is looking for attention
if we dont give him any, he goes away
Hughes+Melky or Ellsbury+Lester
Both deals need sweetening.
I want hughes and cabrera
Jeb, I think had they kept Castillo, AND traded someone like Garza for a bat, they coul dhave stayed in the hunt
when they traded Castillo, they were not out of it yet
I just didnt get the point of trading him
I get a kick out of the nervous nellies in here seeing how soon and how fast we can trade Johan, as though if we dont trade him within a week he will have no value
If the Twins wait till July, Johan will not be worth what he is now, because the window with which the recieving team is guaranteed to have him will be even smaller..and since Johan has a full NTC, the Twins could find the perfect trade partnet in a contender, but then get it veteod by Johan because he won’t want to go to that team.
Or the team will be one that has a VERY low chance to keeping Johan at the end of the season, thus making him worht very little as a rental. If he is the best pitcher in baseball.
The Yanks can lose out on Santana and go after Haren. And Giving up Melke opens a hole in centerfield. His defense is great (his average bat, so far, can be carried on Yanks). If they don’t get either pitcher, Yanks can go with Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Wang and either Pettitte or Mussina. If Hughes-Kennedy-Joba can win 45-50 games, who needs Johan (as great as he is) The time has come for the Yanks to see if their young throwers can do the job. Yanks can always adjust mid-season.
well T, we disagree. But as I said earlier, it doesnt really matter who is right and who is wrong, as Bill Smith is looking to either of us for advice.
LMAO @ YANKEES OWN TWINS BASHING THE GIANTS. Umm HELLO, have you watched your team play at all this season? I am a GIANTS fan, a YANKEE fan on top of being a PROUD NY’er, and your football team SUCKS. You should be so lucky to get Eli on your team, he’s 1000 times better than sorry ass Chad Pennington!
coco is a no go.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU GUYS ARE NOT ABLE TO HANDLE THE TRUTH.
MINNY-SODA IS IN NO POSITION TO GET GREEDY. EITHER YOU TAKE OUR OFFER OR LOSE SANTANA AT THE END OF THE YEAR. WE’RE GIVING YOU THE PROSPECTS YOU NEED RUN YOUR TRIPLE A FRANCHISE. WHEN YOUR DONE DEVELOPING THEM THOUGH, REMEMBER TO SHIP THEM BACK TO US. HAHA
P.S. DO YOU GUYS REALLY HAVE FARGO ACCENTS? OR IS THAT A MADE UP STEREOTYPE?
Sorry about the italics. My tags got messed up Let me see if I can fix it like last time.
Jeb, I think had they kept Castillo, AND traded someone like Garza for a bat, they coul dhave stayed in the hunt
The Twins were more than one bat away last season. As demonstrated by Punto’s inability to hit, three catchers being unable to stay health, Morneau going into a four month homer slump.
The Twins were smart to not deal Garza for a potential rental or a guy that may not have helped anyway. Who could they avhe gotten for JUST Garza that would’ve not only been around for the future but helped IMMEDIATELY? Suggestions?
I just didnt get the point of trading him
Let me break it down, as has been done about a million times since it happend.
1) The Twins were not making the playoffs. One bat wasn’t going to do it.
2) The Twins stunk even with Castillo in the lineup.
3) Castillo was showing signs of age, and in a hurry. It was clear that he was hurting on the turf, and the Twins weren’t going to resign him at the end of the season.
4) At the time, the Twins felt Casilla was ready for a full time starting role.
5) Castillo was not going to be worth draft picks at the end of the year when the Twins let him walk. So they dealt him when he was still worth SOMETHING to a contender so they could at least pick out who they’d be getting instead of hoping their draft choices fell into place.
That is why Castillo was traded. End of story.
i saw the only article; why can’t he give us a clue as to the new “mix?”, maddening
are new yorkers really that dumb??
P.S. DO YOU GUYS REALLY HAVE FARGO ACCENTS? OR IS THAT A MADE UP STEREOTYPE?
I dunno, are all Yankees fans morons with a big enough ego to require it’s own seat in the stadium? I heard that’s why they had to build a bigger one across the street.
Moron.
first of all im a twins fan so im defending why we want him so much. ellsbury got 5 homers 9 stolen bases last year with a .350 batting adverage. IN 30 GAMES!!!!! ok this projects to 30 homers 55 stolen bases and a .350 batting adverage. does that sound like a 10 homer adverage person? thats what i thought. thats why the twins want him so much.
T…I wouldn’t worry about Johan vetoing a trade in July. New York and Boston are still likely to have franchises and they will want him just as badly then as now. He will be just as valuable at the top of the Twins rotation as taking a compromise offer for him. No compromise, Mr. Smith. Deal if you get what you want. No deal if you don’t.
did i mention that the red sox won…again? The yanks are desperate and if the sox get johan, all the money they have spent in this off season to date will be for not.
HEY PHATBOTTOM,
YOU SOUND LIKE A TYPICAL NEW JERSEY MIDGETS FAN. THE GIANTS SUCK. THEY WILL ALWAYS BE 2ND RATE IN NEW YORK LIKE THE METS. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE GIANTS OR WHINY B*TCH ELI MANNING.
CLEMONS>>>>>>>>>>MANNING
Beantown:
Cause they don’t know who is being added. Theo Epstein is probably reluctant to give up Ellsbury or Bucholtz, like Cashman doesnt want to give up Hughes. Redsox and Yanks are improving the deal cause both know Santana could be a difference-maker, while the youngsters are possibles.
The two giants of baseball.
all im saying is what some scouts have said..the only way to know is if he does that for a full season..morneau was on was on pace to shatter his HR total from last yr at the all star break and we all know what happend
let’s stay on point, we’re talking baesball, or do you want me to bring up my undefeated patriots?
pats are classless
Why Don’t The Red Sox and Yankees just trade between themselves
Lowrie, Masterson, Crisp, Lester to NY
Cabrera, Hughes, Gonzalez to BOS
I really just have a better gut feeling about trading with Boston (the good guys) are LAA, than I do with the Yankees. Trading Johan for a bunch of ech talent.
I like Ellsbury, but calculating his potential based on such a small MLB sample size (116 at bats) is a mistake. Looking at his minor league stats, he projects to be a great base stealer with a high avg and obp, but those 5 HRs in 116 at bats were a bit of a fluke I believe. In 1017 minor league at bats, he hit 10 total home runs.
i think it’s boston fans acting like new york fans.double agents,if you will.
Again, that is your opinion. I myself think the trade was stupid, as do many other people.
But there is no final right or no final wrong. We all have opinions, and it is mine the Castillo trade was stupid. There isno point in trying to change my mind.
i would deal bucholtz right now, but ellsbury is going no where (at least i hope).
YOT, the “Fargo” accents were pretty over the top. But, it depends which part of “God’s Country” you are from.
THE PATRIOTS ARE CHEATERS. I HATE BOSTON. TERRIBLE CITY AND EVEN WORSE FANS.
BOSTON TRIES TO HARD TO BE LIKE NEW YORK. YOU GUYS WILL ALWAYS BE NEW YORK’S ANNOYING LITTLE BROTHER. KEEP TRYING THOUGH
i understand why ellsbury is so high on peoples list..
the kid came up, and played fantastic..
but keep in mind that a few years back mr mike ryan came up for the twins and hit about .355 with 4 hrs and some extra base hits..
now, ellsbury will be way better then mike ryan can even imagine..
but players sometimes come up and play great.. ellsbury will have to adjust to different pitches.. and we are yet to see how that adjustment affects him
Mike, Twins could really use a “great base stealer with a high avg and obp”.
We all have opinions, and it is mine the Castillo trade was stupid.
Kevin…TR giveth and TR taketh away. He got Castillo in the first place, so if he blundered in dealing him, he is still batting .500
I won’t rake TR over the coals. He kept the Twins competitive for several years and left plenty of trading chips in the cupboard for Smitty to use in the reloading process…Santana, for one.
The Redsox can afford to trade Ellsbury and keep Crisp (a good defensive player) because of their other bats (like Yanks with Melke) Redsox are aging slowly (like the Yanks) but will be strong with or without Santana for another five years (like the Yankees).
Who will win the division this year is up for grabs. Remember, Redsox won by two games, after the Yanks were horrible for the first two months.
no need to be like new york, we’re already better. maybe new york should try to be like boston.
I definitely agree Jeb. I’m just saying he doesn’t project to be a 30-HR hitter, which is what someone else said.
yankees own twins.
you new yorkers are like 4 ft tall..
and instead of saying quarter to 8
you say its 15 of 8..
now thats messed up..
and you hate boston? what a surprise.. cuz they are dominant in all sports.. somehow they find a way to win with talent..
Nice story here on how Alexi Casilla is kicking arse and taking names in the Dominican winter league:
I think Ryan did some good things. I think also he did some dumb things, especially in the last year or two, and we now know probably why, he just was not into the job anymore.
I never did like his attitude that you could never give up a good prospect to get value on the other side. This team had a serious dearth of offense because he would never trade an arm for a bat in the last couple of years.
Casilla is a good player. He’s Castillo but much much younger..
As for whether the Redsox will be better than the Yanks in 2008, that will be determined on the field
YOT, it’s probably not a good idea to go around questioning people’s intelligence when you’ve demonstrated an inability to locate your computer’s caps lock key.
You want to see something REALLY cool? Press Alt+F4. That’ll teach us.
And seriously, can we not have a Yankees/Red Sox blood feud break out on a Twins board? We hear enough about it 19 times a year we don’t need it in an offseason discussion about a team that neither of them are.
TERRIBLE CITY AND EVEN WORSE FANS.
Boy if that ain’t the pot calling the kettle black I dunno what is…
roundabout, it could be determined in the next 24 hours
“As for whether the Redsox will be better than the Yanks in 2008, that will be determined on the field”
good article on casilla
with this being a rebuilding year i really hope alexi gets a chance to be the everyday guy..
punto can come in late in the game for defensive purposes
what we need in any deal for Santana is a proven player or two, not just prospects. Someone who has done it for at least a couple of seasons.
Prospects can fizzle. Like Hughes, I have not seen him do that much that long. So he almost had a no hitter. So did Scott Baker. Would ou trade Santana for Scott Baker? The yanks are acting like they dare not give Hughes up like hes some kind of prodigy. And some Twins fans are eating it up.
Of course the Red Sox can afford to trade Ellsbury, they’ll just ante up the dough and sign whatever free agent center fielder comes along. Is it just me or is Ellsbury’s value being blown totally out of proportion? At AAA this year he hit a shade under .300 with 2 HRs in 350+ at bats with an OPS of 742. Good numbers, but it’s not like he’s the second coming of Willie Mays.
I can’t ride TR too hard for not giving up talent. The success they had was because of young guys replacing veterans who left via free agency, with a couple good trades thrown in. And not all of his FA signings were bad Kenny Rogers did really well. Maybe he could have gotten a superstar for a young Morneau a couple years ago. Now we’d be sitting at home on a Saturday night commenting on who BS should trade that Superstar for because he’s gonna walk next year.
ANYONE FROM A STATE CALLED MINNY-SODA SHOULDN’T TALK.
BOSTON SUCKS. LIKE I SAID THEY TRY WAAAAAAAY TO HARD TO BE LIKE NEW YORK. THEIR FANS ARE NOTHING BUT ARROGANT PRICKS WHO ARE LETTING RECENT SUCCESS GET TO THEIR HEADS. THEY ARE STILL WAY BEHIND THE YANKEES IN WORLD SERIES TITLES. KEEP TRYING THOUGH.
TERRIBLE CITY, TERRIBLE FANBASE, TERRIBLE TEAM. ONE FLUKE YEAR HERE AND THERE AINT GOING TO CHANGE THAT.
never did like his attitude that you could never give up a good prospect to get value on the other side. This team had a serious dearth of offense because he would never trade an arm for a bat in the last couple of years.
I doubt they were many opportunities where he could have improved the offense significantly without giving up too much. For example, he prob could have traded Liriano for Soriano a couple years ago. But then Franchise would have been gone and Soriano would be out of their price range by now. And keeping those young arms then, makes it feasible to put Johan on the table now, because Baker, Slowey, etc., are still here to fill out the rotation.
ellsbury will be the best centerfielder in boston since fred lynn period.
didnt boston come back from the greatest defecit in playoff history in 2004?? wait who were they playing?? thats right the yankees
yankees own twins..
again.. your stating the same thing over and over..
and ill take one fluke year every couple years instead of being like the yanks and losing in the first round every year..
wasnt new york up 3-0 against boston and lost 4 straight games?
funny.. cuz i think that happened..
was that a fluke? no, its the fact that new york is bad
yot: that would be two “lucky” years. remember 2004 when your choke-ees coughed up the al pennant?
YOT, Please keep using the ALL CAPS. Then I don’t have to bother reading what you right. I can just skip on by.
shaun
haha
great point.. hahaha great minds think alike!
Beantown,
If the Yanks don’t get Santana, they can go after Haren or Bedard - maybe Peavy. (ditto with Redsox) I don’t think Santana will make or break the race. Boston has issues - Schilling is older and Die is no guarantee. Can your secondbaseman put it together for a second season? Will Drew play better? Will Crisp improve. Yanks got question marks too. I’d go with our youngsters and give it a shot.
If you want to diss the red sox, why are you doing it here, most of us are Twins fans, not boston fans.
i really hope mizzou beats oklahoma
i dont want to see ohio state in the championship game..
they are not that good
Fran, how did you get so smart? You are right on the mark.
YOt, using the “we have way more titles in our history” thing is a cop out. Its like saying the celtics are better than the knicks casue we won 16 titles….wait a minute we are much better we beat you by 45 the other night….
haren or bedard is no santana. santan is one of the few pitchers in the league that could win you that 1-0 game in the playoffs
Lavelle,
Thanks for keeping us up to date. You do wonderful work. Anyways… I didn’t see you write anything about how the turduckin was at Thanksgiving. How was it? Should I order one for my family next year?
roundabout, good points, but i really think if the sox have a rotation of beckett, santana, dice-k and schilling they will be almost impossible to beat…almost
Shaun,
That’s true. But Santana can pitch for just one team. Those teams that don’t win this lottery, will have to adapt. I wouldn’t say no to either Haren or Bedard or peavy in a big game, either.
Haren and Bedard arn’t consistent year after year, thats why, even though santana didn’t have the best numbers this year, is regarded as the top pitcher in baseball.
lol, jeb, thanks. I try.
I am going to duck out of here and enjoy Saturday night a little bit, though. You and Kevin and the other twins fans keep the east coast riff-raff outa here in the meantime and I will check in again some other time. Peace.
i’m heading out for awhile, it has been a pleasure sharing some space with the twins fans….not the crankees.
Shaun: “santana is one of the few pitchers in the league that could win you that 1-0 game in the playoffs”
Why didn’t he do it for the Twins then the four times they went to the Playoffs???
no but id pick santana over any one of those guys until they win 2 cy youngs and lead the league in e.r.a and K’s a bunch of times
Beantown,
Yep, extremely formidable. I love Beckett (and Ortiz) 2008 will be a fun season. The fact is the Yanks-Redsox winner of the division (playoffs is a different animal) will be determined by how either team beats the other guys. You know it’s Yanks-Sox will end up a game or three different in their head to head (10-9, or 11-8)
jeb you know what i meant..hes not going to do it everytime..no pitcher is
left plenty of trading chips in the cupboard for Smitty to use in the reloading process…Santana, for one.
And Garza for another. Moving him at the deadline in July to rent a bat would have been a terrible move. Instead he brought a potential future star in return. That isn’t the kind of player teams are trying to move in July.
BOSTON IS LIKE A REJECT MINNY-SODA. HOW COME YOU IDIOTS KEEP SENDING YOUR GOOD PLAYERS TO THEM??
MOSS, GARNETT, ORTIZ.
ANOTHER REASON TO HATE MINNY-SODA. YOU IDIOTS HELP BOSTON TEAMS.
we didnt send moss to the ptas moron..the raiders did
Recent article from the Hot Stove said the following:
However, the horse’s mouth — in this instance, the St. Paul Pioneer Press — surprisingly gives Boston the inside track, because the Red Sox have the pieces for a larger, younger package, which is in line with the Twins’ agenda to rebuild.
The Press reports Santana could bring center fielder Coco Crisp, who is 28, and three “babies” — shortstop Jed Lowrie and lefty Jon Lester, both 23, and right-handed pitching prospect Justin Masterson, 22.
Of course, coming up with the financial package to satisfy Santana himself might be more difficult, with the Boston Herald projecting that potential hurdle as “one of the current Sox regime’s biggest challenges.”
The perceived early pole-sitters, the Yankees, also are adjusting their offer to reflect Wednesday night’s transaction. Center fielder Melky Cabrera and a young pitcher still remain in the package, but now the Bombers may consider including both Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy to satisfy the Twins’ growing need for arms.
We need to move San Tan and start building a new team like we did when we trade Sweet Music.
Hi everyone!
I have been reading all the posts and from my two cents, if the Mets are to trade Jose Reyes, a third team MUST be involved (Marlins?)… Just a brainstorm but here’s what I was thinking about
Mets get:
Johan Santana
Hanley Ramirez
low level prospect from Twins/Marlins
Twins get:
Jose Reyes
Pelfrey/Humber
Carlos Gomez
Marlins get:
Parnel - Mets
Pelfrey/Humber - Mets
Michael Crabtree - Twins
No one liked Moss, the timberwolves do suck and we didn’t really need Garnett anymore, and ortiz sucked before he went to boston, i guess you’ve never looked at his stats.
the marlins are not trading hanley ramirez..mark my words..he will be better than reyes in a few yrs
Oakland has Haren on the market. Yanks could go for Haren if Beane would take Kennedy. Beane also wants Ellsbury and/or Bucholtz for Haren. It’s getting crazier. The rich getting richer.
shaun, maybe he just had bad luck. Or was used up by the time they got to the playoffs. They really counted him down the stretch in those title years.
He just never seemed to really step up and dominate like you expected him to.
Actually, the whole team played flat in the last three of those. I think part of that was in the second two they won the division with alot of games left in the season, and Gardy rested everyone too much. I think in 2006 they were not mentally prepared.
yeah i hear ya there..i say he has had some bad luck, like no offense
Hanley Ramirez isnt going anywhere (He shouldn’t) He’s better than Reyes today, I think. Reyes’ speed (stolen bases and triples) separates him. His OBA remains low.
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/12/01/the-dugout-the-johan-santana-bidding-war/
humorous, if not interesting read
but ramirez can hit WAY more hrs than reyes.ill take than any day and he can still steal 45 plus bases
It’s going to be between the Yankees and Red Sox, no three-team deals.
I’d like to find out how the talks with the Sox went this afternoon, and what the “new ideas” were.
That was a funny article, I especially liked this Steinbrenner quote:
“I will offer you young players that may or may not end up being good, but my young players who have a better chance of being good are OFF LIMITS.”
Here’s a name the Twins should be talking about; Alexei Ramirez, the Cuban defector who last season led that country’s Serie Nacional with 20 homers and plays both center and short.
I heard that the Cubs and White Sox are interested in him. And I saw a quote about the Cubs being prepared for a cross-town bidding war in order to get Ramirez, so his price could go way up.
I mentioned him earlier this off-season. I think he is really a CF. I’m not sure how much SS he plays.
The latest from ESPN.com:
“There is only a certain level of patience for prolonged dialogue among the teams involved, and unless some preliminary trade agreement is settled, the Red Sox or Yankees could reduce their offer or pull out altogether within the next 48 hours.”
Let’s get this done…NOW
I say if nothing progressed in the talks with the Sox, we go with Hughes, Cabrera, Tabata, and maybe one other guy.
i agree twins territory
I heard the Yankees are only offering Hughes, Cabrera, and one more prospect not named Chamberlain, Kennedy, Horne, or Tabata.
we wont really know what is going to happen until it does..they shot down the rumor of the delmon young trade for how long and look what happend..we have d young
Here it is:
“The Yankees told the Twins the third prospect will not be pitchers Ian Kennedy or Alan Horne or outfielder Jose Tabata.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/11/30/santana.update/index.html
Twins.. How do you know Tabata is the third player.. From the Twins perspective, the best thing about the Redsox offer COULD BE that the Yanks up their offer or pull out. Parting with Ellsbury shouldn’t hurt that much
I agree as well. The ESPN report says the Yanks wouldn’t offer Tabata but I think it’s smoke and mirrors.
Mike,
Hughes apparently has been added.. cause the Twins want him, not Kennedy as the main pitching piece
I know, I was saying the trade would be Hughes, Cabrera, and one more guy, and I was saying that the third guy, according to Jon Heyman of SI, would not be Kennedy, Tabata, or Horne.
Jose Tabata, so far, is a Melke clone — not much power. The CF, supposedly better, is Austin Jackson..
“Jackson continued to square up in Hawaii , hitting .271/.368/.489. Once profiled as a future leadoff hitter, Jackson instead showed all five tools in Hawaii , and now his ceiling reads much higher. Jackson impressed many coaches with his defense in center field, as well as his speed on the basepaths, where he stole eight bases in nine attempts. However, it’s been Jackson ’s continued ability to square up the baseball and show power that left him as the unanimous top prospect amongst coaches.”
[…] Twins Insider
Hmmm…
I never really knew that they were unwilling to part with Tabata. Maybe this:
Hughes, Cabrera, Jackson, and that SS.
Well, when the rumors first started up, one thing that came out was that the Twins originally wanted a deal of Hughes, Cabrera, and Jackson. So, if they can get those three, I’d imagine they’d be pretty satisfied.
If the Sox didn’t up their offer, Hughes, Cabrera, Jackson, and Gonzalez sounds good to me. Dissappointing compared to what I was expecting originally, but after watching things play out, it now seems like a good deal.
i think we all be dissapointed to a certain extense since we view santana as the best pitcher and baseball and these teams need to give up a lot to get him
I’d be disappointed mainly because I was hoping for Cano or Reyes at first. I have since realized that the chances of that were small.
Also, I’m not 100% sure on Melky. What do you guys think about him?
As for Ellsbury, some scouts say he’ll be a 8-10 HR guy.
yeah i was thinking the same thing TT, since the reyes deal was the first one i heard about
we were talking about that on here earlier about ells being a 8-10 hr guy
Jackson is 20, Tabata is 19
Both a ways from the ML. I like Tabata more, but it is hard to say which one will develop into a better player. Tabata has a little more power potential and should hit for better average. Jackson is faster and a better defensive player. With Ben Revere in our system, I dont know if that makes us more (we have a focus on bringing in guys with speed) or less (we already have a guy like that) likely to want Jackson.
I like him though..
La Velle,
Whisper into BS ear that maybe the Twins should trade Punto, San Tan, Nathan, and a player to be named later to Mets for Jose Reyes, Carlos Gomez and Ruben Gotay and a couple of players to be named later.
Melky is a work in progress offensively. He doesn’t have much power, but can hit with discipline (and go with the pitch) defensively, excellent; potentially on par with Hunter.
As for Ellsbury, who knows how well he will hit outside Fenway.
If Boston upted their offer, and the yankees really want santana i bet they’ll offer cano/hughes and the twins will take it in a heart-beat if boston did in fact up the stakes. And personally i would much rater have cano than melky.
Who would everyone else like to see in minnesota, Cano or Cabrera?
Sorry everyone, this was another crank blog entry….
The main thing I think for me will be, can the Twins get a LONG TERM 3B after the Johan stuff is out of the way.
I’ll be fine with the OF, DH (Kubel?), 1B, 2B, and C. But 3B we need something reliable, and long term. Same with SS depending on who we trade with.
wow if he dont get a hughes type prospect from boston or the yankess ill be pissed
La Velle, put something in there about a petition to save Phil Hughes.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/3/people-against-trading-phil-hughes
thanks lavelle
and there ya go..
that is why you accept the deal
GET IT DONE
lavelle,
deadline, noon tommorrow on hughes?
hold up
so the twins had until noon today to accept the hughes offer??
we blew it.. simply.. blew it
I think Melkey hits like a CFer but plays the field like a LFer. I dont think he will ever develop to be more than an average ML player. That said, he is an upgrade to this team right now at CF.
We are 3-4 years away from having one of our guys (Revere or Martin possibly) be ready. Melkey will have enough time to improve, or he will step aside. And he will be cheap… I am ok with getting him. Not excited, but ok.
Ryan,
For what it’s worth (and maybe nothing) on the list of 50 top prospects, Austin Jackson is number 49 and Tabata isn’t listed. That doesn’t mean what will happened in three years.
Ellsbury and the others guys being mentioned are at the head of the list
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/news/top50/y2008/
LaVelle’s post may make all this moot
The Mets have younger players who we could get to fill CF, 3B, and SS. They would give up Reyes, and the other players I mentioned to get both San Tan and Nathan. Punto would be a throw in to get him the hell out of here. Nathan is great but getting older and we are not going to sign him to a long term deal at his age.
Is this an imposter La Velle again?
IDK, I’m wondering the same thing. I hope it is. I e-mailed him to see…
This was false too….
roundabout, thanks for the link. I saw Baseball Prospectus and Baseball America both had Tabata as the Yankees #2 prospect before the past season (Hughes was #1 on both lists)
NASHVILLE — The Yankees have acceded to the Twins’ wishes that top young pitcher Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera be included in a potential trade for superstar pitcher Johan Santana, but Minnesota and the Yankees are now haggling over the third prospect that’s to be put into the deal. Meanwhile, the Twins are still talking to the Red Sox, as well.
Minnesota has requested the Yankees surrender either pitcher Alan Horne or outfielder Austin Jackson as the third player, but the Yankees have thus far refused to include either in the deal for the two-time Cy Young winner. Most baseball insiders still see the Yankees as the favorite to land Santana with their inclusion of Hughes, but if the sides can’t agree on the third prospect, the Yankees may consider setting a deadline for Minnesota to accept their proposal.
Meanwhile, Minnesota has stayed in touch with the Red Sox and is still holding out a long-shot hope that it can pry top outfielder prospect Jacoby Ellsbury from Boston. The Red Sox have offered young pitcher Jon Lester, center fielder Coco Crisp and shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie and have been steadfast in their refusal to include Ellsbury to this point.
The Yankees and Red Sox look like the serious players for Santana at this point, not surprising in that those are the two teams that can most comfortably meet Santana’s expected contract demands. Santana, who is due to make $13.25 million in 2008 and become a free agent after the coming season, is believed ready to approve a trade to either team and is expected to receive an extension for five or six years for more than $20 million, once a trade is completed.
The Yankees likely thought they met Minnesota’s original asking price by including the well-regarded righthander Hughes along with young center fielder Cabrera and a third prospect. However, the Yankees’ apparent belief was that the third young player was to be a “second-tier” prospect, not someone the stature of Horne or Jackson. It’s also possible the sides could bridge the gap by expanding the deal to include more players.
It appears the Red Sox would only consider parting with Ellsbury if the Twins offered an extra player or two in addition to Santana, and people close to the situation say that would take considerable creativity. Boston and Minnesota have remained in contact, but it’s believed the Yankees have come closer to meeting the Twins’ asking price to this point.
La Velle
i hope you have some good info in 20 minutes.. this is sad.. real sad
There is no way that we will accept Crisp and Lester for Johan, is there? I hope that the deal about Hughes is not dead. I think that was our best option by far.
La Velle, for being a professional writer, I feel like you would be able to spell the word “removed”
Put an update in the blog story if this is legit.
Yeah, Hughes and Cabrera is way better than Lester and Crisp.
I always get the feeling that Lester is unhealthy, and I hate it…
Hw wrote this earlier:
Check out the Strib tomorrow for my Twins Insider that lays out the Santana situation.
So until he responds to my e-mail, I’m going to hold hope that this isn’t true…
I can’t believe the bostons are unwilling to give up ellsbury to get the best pitcher in baseball, all of these deals just seem so much below what we should be able to get for him.
Think about it, the team getting him should see it as getting Santana for the next 7 years, and what you’d be willing to get that and I believe both the Yankees and the Red Soxs deals are both below of what they want to give up.
well if hughes has been removed from the deal..
we will be lucky to get lester/crisp
something tells me that this could get ugly!
They better not do that Boston deal. If Hughes is really out, I say they wait on a trade…
I’ve been reading this blog for a long time. I do not ever remember La Velle using language like:
“Hi guys,
I’m back from running some errands. It’s nice to see the STRIB has so many dedicated and avid readers. ”
Hi guys?
No.
Wood,
Epstein probably wishes the Yanks win out and weaken their prospects. Haren is in play, as well. Both Epstein and Cashman are pro young guys. In Boston’s case, they have some veterans and need to start restocking. They will be dynamite for another 3-5 years. The Yanks are in a similar situation
We’ll know pretty soon if it was the real La Velle, because he said he would post an update in 20 minutes, and it’s already been 20 minutes since he made that post.
No Hughes? Walk.
A season of Johan and 2 pics are better than Lester/Crisp
It probably wasn’t him, it would probably say moderator or something next to his name to know he was the real person
You may want to think about which organization does a better job drafting and developing players while you mull which offer to chose from.
ryanW
yea.. maybe you have a point.. maybe not..
i guess if it isnt la velle.. then i am being lied to..
and if it is la velle.. then i appreciate the info.
i dont question things..
but you can!
We got more for Garza than Lester/Crisp
And an update of that magnitude would be put up top, if not added as a new entry.
Ryan,
Sports Illustrated’s Heyman is saying the Yanks may be getting tired of the Twins playing them against Redsox. This “La Velle,” real or not, is not that far off.
Roundabout i agree, but I also bet they know they need some veteran’s in their club to make sure the young ones have something to look up to. I guess I’m biased because i really would like to see Robinson Cano in a Twin’s uniform, and I know they’ll never give him up. But i still believe the twins should get more than what their offering. We got Nathan/Liriano/Bonser for A.J., i would hope we could get something like that for Johan too.
La Velle just contacted me, and said that it is indded fake…
YES!!!!!!
Whew! I was really worried there!
RyanW,
The prize of the package is Lowrie and frankly, Lester I would rather keep and trade Bucholz
alright. i dont know what to believe any more
I was wondering from the start becasue he knows how many people read this blog, and wouldn’t leave a comment stating that he has good readers.
Plus, that big of news would go up top.
I’m so happy that he got back to me quickly. I was sure it was fake, but wanted to be 100% sure.
The STRIB has got to get a handle on these dumbass imposters. It’s gotta be driving III crazy.
This sucks. The Twins are now screwed. I’d rather pay Santana and extend him than trade him for pennies on the dollar.
Thanks for the info LEN III
So what? If the Yankees are tired of negotiating a trade for the best pitcher in baseball then let them start the season with a hole in their starting rotation. As it stands, the have no chance beating the Red Sox this season. Their sense of entitlement is absurd.
Wood,
I don’t think the Twins are getting Cano - maybe for Santana straight up. I wouldn’t give you Hughes and Cano for Santana, plus whomever else is being considered. Hey if you want to throw in Justin Morneau (love his bat at the Stadium), we can talk :)
They’ll probably go back to Igawa and Clemens.
Yeah, La Velle was pretty mad…
yeah then you throw in AROD..please
They need to put a special icon next to all of his comments.
Whoa, lets take a step back, Morneau? really?, he/mauer/cuddyer are 3 of the corner stones of this organization. Smith would never give him up. And as for a Cano/Santana swap, i don’t know. I think we would get at least a lower level prospect in the deal, don’t you think?
What do you think will happen to this site when Johan does get traded. That Delmon trade got a bunch of comments, and even just these normal updates are getting 500 or so comments.
It’s going to be crazy…
Ryan,
Maybe there’s a hole and maybe the hole will be filled by Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy, along with Wang and Mussina. I understand the Twins want all they can get. Santana is great, but I wouldn’t be that sad if the Yanks said No thanks. It’s not about entitlement, at all. Twins are entitled to what the other team is willing to give them
so….where do we stand?
why are all you nervous nellies panicking?
a team that wants Johan will not lay out a deadline. They can try, but Smith wont fall for it. This isnt like buying timeshare units where they say this price is only good today.
If its good today, it will be good tomorrow, and next week for that matter.
I am glad most of you arent negotiating
Patience is the best asset here.
Wood,
I know. lol.. I was teasing. Morneau is a player, for sure..
or just forbid people from using his name. On the Big Question blog- trib politics- I have to register to post, annoying, but it dosent allow this crap.
Here is the latest I guess:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/01/santana.talks/index.html
Im new to this Blog but the misinformation by the real/fake La Velle over the past 2 days is a joke. If La Velle is chatting with TwinsTerritory and pissed off, then why isnt he updating the article with the latest?
I think Smith should pull out of this if he believes he can’t get fare deal out of it. I’d rather have Santana for one more year than to get the bad end of a trade.
Yeah, I’d register for a name for sure…
I post enough. Plus, people have posted with my name before so I know what it’s like.
He probably isn’t updating it because there’s nothing to update.
Folks,
If there’s major breaking news, I will create a new post. I’m sorry that some people have taken advantage of the structure of this thread.
I doubt I will have any new news tonight. I’ve been running around and I’m not in Nashville yet. I feel out of position, and it stinks….
La Velle is busy, I’m pretty sure he is headed to the Winter Meetings, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he is stuck in an airport.
He told me the dude was a fake.
There you have it…
Aww…another La Velle?
I’ve read enough of La Velle’s stuff that I think I can tell when it’s him. Just the way he comments, and uses spaces for his new ideas.
The other dude did it all in one.
I would definitely be in favor of having to register a name; the impersonations (especially of La Velle) are really annoying.
Good point Kevin, the market is AT LEAST Hughes, Cabrara + Prospect. That price will be the floor moving forward. Regardless if we are talking about the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Angels or any other of the teams that would love to have him and have money (see Cubs, White Sox, Braves, Seattle, etc).
I wish they would put something next to his name so we know it was him
A New York sports writer just filed this one (for what it’s worth):
“The AP is now reporting that Phil Hughes is part of the offer for Johan Santana along with Melky Cabrera and a “mid-level prospect.”
In a new twist, the wire service says the offer could have an expiration date of a few days as the Yankees are prepared to go after Danny Haren. Now that most everybody believes the Red Sox aren’t serious, the Yankees are putting some pressure on the Twins to make this deal before it gets any more complicated.
Roundabout- do you have a link?
Thanks for the update LEN3, I have read enough of your stuff to know you wouldnt start a post with “Hi guys,”
Enjoy the Opryland Hotel… wow, talk about a sweet place, it has a river run through the thing…
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/
There you go Mike..
Also New York Post is reporting, the Yanks are reacting to the Redsox and that’s why they added Hughes. I am not sure if Redsox upped their ante (Ellsbury or Bucholtz)
It’s a bummer that the Dodgers aren’t more involved in Johan dealings. I’d rather have one or two of their young hitters (LaRoche/Kemp/Hu/Loney) than a flychaser and starting pitching prospect. Here’s hoping the Twins are patient and are able to get more teams involved and extract some young hitters out of this deal. I’m feeling pretty good about heading into 2010 with a rotation of Baker/Slowey/Liriano/Boof/Blackburn-Swarszak-Duensing-Perkins-Manship- or another emerging stud pitcher. Putting runs on the board for the next five years should be the focus here.
Curious to know when the expiration date is…I wouldn’t be surprised if a Santana-to-Yankees deal isn’t consummated within the next day or two (I read on ESPN of a “48 hour time limit”)
The only reason they would have a time limit is to say, you’ve asked for enough and we’ve given enough. But i don’t think the Twins will fall for it because I still believe that this isn’t enough for what the Yankees get in return.
Dodgers are heavy in pitching. I know you can never have too much pitching, but the Dodgers need hitting…especially in that ballpark..
From LEN III’s article:
According to a person close to the Twins’ negotiations, the club will take a hard line in trade talks involving Santana during this week’s winter meetings in Nashville. And that means — no matter how certain it has seemed that Santana will be traded — that the club would be comfortable entering the 2008 season with their two-time Cy Young Award winner in the rotation if no offer is good enough.
The idea of watching Santana just walk to me is confounding and maddening…If the Yankees are offering Hughes, take the deal. We can rest assured we’ll have a prized young pitcher under contract for the next 5+years. That should be worth it right there.
New update… Red Sox and Theo Epstein have made a move and now are willing to offer Bucholtz and Ellsbury for Santana. If this is true, don’t be surprised to see Smith think about it heavily.
Nice article by LEN3, exactly what I want to hear. I like Bill Smith.
this santana trade is makin’ me spin..the more i look at it, the more i dont like any of it…at least from ny..not only do i dislike the yanks, but havent you noticed how all their young prospects are hyped out of this world…first of all hughes, in addition to hype, says he doesnt want to be traded, hes a yank and thats it..so we have an unhappy young pitcher with an attitude.. and then the melky way…im not so sure hes the cf we are looking for…is he that far ahead of d. span, and dont get me wrong, im not in favor of span at all…so what have we…2 unproven but highly hyped young kids, plus an unknown lower level prospect, all for a 2 time cy young winner in his prime…im all in favor of santana going, but for this???im not sold…am i nuts or what am i missing…theres got to be more out there and b.smith needs to be tough/smart
Real LaVelle or Fake LaVelle?
“New update… Red Sox and Theo Epstein have made a move and now are willing to offer Bucholtz and Ellsbury for Santana. If this is true, don’t be surprised to see Smith think about it heavily.”
Some people here remind me of Mr. Bill, that hapless little clay character on Saturday Night Live who was constantly submitting to evil Mr. Hand. Oh please, Mr. Bill would say in a high pitched voice, I will do anyting you want, just dont hurt me,,, of course, Mr. Bill would do what Mr. Hand wanted, and Mr. Hand would hurt him anyway
DO you really want the Yankees dictating terms to us? We have the high card here, Hughes, Kennedy, hell, evne Cano are no the card Santana is, we need to be patient, set our terms, and walk away if and when necessary, there will alwyas be a market for Johan
but for crying out loud, dont give in to the least litlte offer,w hich yes, what we are hearing are
Redsox didn’t want to give up either Ellsbury or Bucholtz. Now, this poster (LaVelle) is saying they will give up both of them? Doesn’t sound too credible to me. But hey, I love it. I hope the Redsox offered and the Twins say yes
I don’t think this is REAL LaVelle making this claim, unfortunately…Rather I think it’s some tool using LaVelle’s monicker.
LaVelle, if that was really you, I apologize. I think we’re all at wit’s end with these rumors.
what a joke. whos managing this blog? Id never give up Ellsbury AND Buchholz
Kevin,
You may have the ace, but if you overplay your hand, you can price yourself out of the market. What you want is not always what the other team is willing to give you. I would never say never, but thinking you will get cano, hughes and kennedy, plus for Santana. There are other 15-20 game winners a lot cheaper. By all means, I wish the Twins would sign Santana for five more years. That would be best for baseball.
FYI, LEN III has started a new thread.
I hope what is going on between the Yanks and Sox, them bidding against each other, keeps going, it’s the more better for us. I don’t think either of them will drop out until he’s traded, and for what Santana’s done for the team we need to get everything we can for him.
I am in stuck in am airport (atlanta) From here on in, so you know me from the imposter, MY posts will include (STRIB)after my name. I expect to be in Nashville around 12:30am. We have a media breakfast at 8:30. I’ll post more then. To all who are worried the Twins won’t get fair value..I know Smith doesn’t see this as a trade that has to be made. He’s willing to walk if Kennedy and Jackson aren’t included with Hughes and Cabrera. Word is Cano would be acceptable in lieu of Hughes.
This is getting hilarious now…stuck in an airport. OK. I guess Smith is walking, cause he isn’t getting Hughes (or Cano), Cabrera, Kennedy and Jackson for Santana.. Funny, no one else has even hinted that, especially Cano instead of Hughes. Hughes, according to most report, was tossed into the deal today.
We shall see.
I’m sorry i can post as La Velle too, i doubt the yanks would ever give up cano.
sorry that was me
This is just getting ridiculous i don’t know what to believe
Why all the fuss over Ellsbury? I think this is a manufactured firestorm over a player with 5HR in 552 ABs as a pro.
Perhaps waiting until the deadline and seeing what develops is the best route. Texas received an excellent package mid-year for Texeira last year. I think should stick to his guns ath the meetings, looking to be overwhelmed a la Bartolo Colon 1999 (Sizemore, Philips, Westbrook, Lee). If no such offer develops, the Twins should take their chances.
[…] Saturday update: The Twins Will Not CompromiseMinneapolis Star Tribune (subscription) - Minneapolis,MN,USAThis entry was posted on Saturday, December 1st, 2007 at 2:20 pm and isfiled under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to thisentry through the … […]
The Boston rumor is a fake. Someone is impersonating LEN III again.
I was the fake La Velle all along. You guys are such suckers. No one could tell because the real La Velle writes about as well as as my four year old.
Don’t panic! The Yankees are now playing the game too! This should be expected.
First of all, if the Yankees are sucking hind tit this summer and are behind the Red Sox again!!!….. Steinbrenner will wet his pants and really overpay for Santana then.
Let them play their games too. After all, if Hughes comes out and struggles this year, his value is reduced to jack ….! Then the Yankees will be standing with nothing in their hands to offer - because we won’t be taking a Horne, Kennedy, Jackson, whatever trade just to move Santana. There will be takers! There always is a team willing to pay at the desperation time.
Wood,
I would believe the following:
Yanks have offered Hughes, Melky and a b-prospect (not Kennedy etc and certainly not cano).
And the Redsox have offered Lester, Crisp, that shortstop and another player.
Most newspapers in New York, Boston, and Minnesota are reporting that, along with ESPN etc.
There are no scoops that last forever. And if Boston decided to throw in Ellsburg or Bucholtz, officially, they would all know. Like they all know the Yanks tossed in Hughes today/tonight
Smitty and I just reached a tentative agreement.. Ellsbury, Lester and Lowrie for Santana and he agreed to 6 years and 125 million. There you have it. Stop posting.
[…] Saturday update: The Twins Will Not CompromiseMinneapolis Star Tribune (subscription) - Minneapolis,MN,USAThis entry was posted on Saturday, December 1st, 2007 at 2:20 pm and isfiled under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to thisentry through the … […]
“Texas received an excellent package mid-year for Texeira last year”
#1 they didn’t get an excellent package. The centerpiece was Saltlamacchia who wasn’t even a top 30 prospect.
#2 Teixeira had a year and a half left on his contract not a half a year like Santana if we dealt him at the deadline and Teixeira didn’t have a no trade clause where who could rob the other team on an extension.
that wasn;t me, my W isn’t capitalized
that wasn’t me either.
A source just informed me that Boston has softened its stance on Jacoby Ellsbury. Through an extraordinary series of events, Boston has also agreed to send Kevin Garnett back to the Timberwolves for Gerald Green. David Ortiz will be included in the package, in exchange for such Boston emigre Lew Ford. The New England and Minnesota football teams have agreed to swap rosters and coaching staffs. Cheers will be relocated to Brooklyn Park, and arrangements are being made to fly Fenway Park to Shoreview, with Boston receiving Jesse Ventura and Al Franken in the deal. More to follow as details emerge.
Roundabout, that wasn’t me posting as La Velle, i only believe that things that i see in actually articles not blogs.
Well there’s only ONE thing wrong with that, the Twins released Lew Ford like a month ago, so i don’t believe a word you say.
roundabout
I agree with you, ,but your idea of signing Johan for 5 year represents a win win
we either hold out for a huge package, one we cant turn down, and if we dont get that, which we probably wont, then sign him
but if they give in a can tturn down package trade him
fake La Velle, that’s the funniest thing I’ve ever read!!!
well, finally a fnnnn deal….bout time
SI.com’s Jon Heyman reports that the Twins are holding out for either Alan Horne or Austin Jackson as a third player along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera in a Johan Santana deal.
Might as well. The Yankees aren’t exactly known for their ability to draw a line in the sand, and why should they start when it’s the best pitcher in baseball they’re bartering to acquire? We’d part with Horne first, though he emerged as a fine starting pitching prospect last season. Heyman also says that the Red Sox may consider including Jacoby Ellsbury in a deal with the Twins if Minnesota was willing to include another player or two. He goes on to write, “Boston and Minnesota have remained in contact, but it’s believed the Yankees have come closer to meeting the Twins’ asking price to this point.”
roundabout…are they nuts…another player or two…what drugs are they on…maybe we should add morneau and mauer…or maybe throw delmon in ..would that satisfy those morons…tell that arrogant bunch from the east to forget everything..keeping johan is looking better by the hour
The Twins will benefit from the Yanks-Redsox rivalry, when all is said and done. And the Twins are in the catbird seat; they can start the season with Santana, though they will gamble he stays healthy and other teams might not give up so much during the season.
Here’s this idea:
Peter “Gammons favors the Yankees in the Santana derby, because he feels that Hank Steinbrenner could overrule Brian Cashman and include Phil Hughes in the deal. (THAT’S HAPPENED) “Some feel that the Red Sox are just trying to pump up the price and would then turn to the A’s to get Dan Haren. Getting Haren instead of Santana may have the added benefit of not pissing off Josh Beckett about his salary.”
But the Athletics might want Ellsbury, as well and Lester or Bucholtz.
i am a met fan and there is absolutely no way that the mets will trade reyes, and it must absolutely must suck being a fan of a team with an ownership like the twins. There is no way the mets or yankees would ever let a pitcher like johan go with out offering him a mega deal. Carl Pohlad has more money then Steinbrenner and the Wilpons combined and you guys cant even make him an offer. You will constantly be in rebuilding mode and your only hope if to trade away all your good players every time your team gets good for prospects like the marlins. No matter how much you can justify Johan being traded for prospects the idea is just insane as a new yorker. Good luck the next 3 years. Sucks to be you.
Steve, you’re right, now i dont necessarily want the insane payrolls of the New York teams, but i am just looking for a little bit of dignity as a Twins fan…i mean, people buy jerseys and posters of their favorite Twins players just to see them leave in 2 years because our ownership is unwilling to pay them what they want to sign for…
Why is everybody so hung up on Ellsbury. He had a good postseason, good for him. He is nothing more than a young Dave Roberts. He has speed, but no power. Let’s see him play a full season, until then I have no interest in him and the Twins shouldn’t either.
TJ:
The reason is “potential” and scouting. Ellsbury is projected as a top centerfielder by the experts (doesn’t mean he will become one) as Hughes is projected as a top-end starter. I am sure there were scouting reports and projections for Santana way back, as for Len Boehmer.
Hey Lavelle — Do you enjoy being a shill for the Twins organization? How much do they pay you to be their mouthpiece?? That was the most obvious “plant” story I’ve ever read. Sure, let’s use the media to drive up the price and see if the Yanks are stupid enough to bite. I mean, I know there’s nothing to write about there up there in Fargo-land, but geez … Where’s your pride, man??
And you hicks are crazy if you think you’re getting anything better than Hughes and Cabrera. You’re lucky to be getting that much. You want to take the Sox garbage or just keep Santana, fine. You’ll still miss the playoffs and we’ll just end up signing him when he hits free agency next year.
Two years ago (Jan 06), these were the top 10 Red Sox prospects according to Baseball America. Some history updates/comments follow each.
1. Andy Marte, 3b
Traded by the Atlanta on 12/8/05 to the Red Sox for Edgar Renteria and cash.
Traded by the Red Sox on 1/27/06 with a player to be named later, Guillermo Mota, Kelly Shoppach, and cash to Cleveland for Coco Crisp, David Riske, and Josh Bard. Boston sent Randy Newsom to Cleveland to complete the trade.
Career stats: 94 G, 278 AB, 26 R, 56 H, 21 2B, 2 3B, 6 HR, 35 RBI, 0 SB, 1 CS, 22 BB, 60 K, .201 BA, .263 OBP, .356 SLB, .619 OPS
2. Jon Lester, lhp
#5 SP in Red Sox rotation behind Beckett, Schilling, Matsuzaka and Wakefield
3. Jonathan Papelbon, rhp
Red Sox closer
4. Craig Hansen, rhp
Drafted by the Boston Red Sox in the 1st round (26th pick) of the 2005 amateur draft. He spent the 2007 season with AAA Pawtucket. Limited MLB experience in ‘05 and ‘06.
5. Dustin Pedroia, 2b/ss
Red Sox starting 2B
6. Jacoby Ellsbury, of
Projected as Red Sox starting CF. Prior to his MLB call ups in 2007 he was the #1 prospect in the organization and was rated as the #33 prospect for 2007 by Baseball America. He was also named the fastest baserunner in the international league by Baseball America. The New York Times described Ellsbury in 9/07 as a “cult hero” who brings “speed, improved defense, and unbridled enthusiasm.” He had at least one hit in all but one of the games he has played since his 9/1/07 call up. In the 2007 World Series, he hit .435 with 5 doubles and a SB. For the second consecutive season, Jacoby was selected by the Red Sox as their minor league Defensive Player of the Year and Baserunner of the Year.] He was also named MLB’s American League Rookie of the Month for September.
** He is the real deal **
7. Kelly Shoppach, c
See Andy Marte above. #2 C for Cleveland.
8. Manny Delcarmen, rhp
He has a 95 mph fastball and an excellent 12-to-6 curveball. Fastball can actually reach the high 90s. Average to below average control, needs to improve his consistency. Changeup is about average. Delcarmen had Tommy John surgery in May 2003, but returned to the mound a year later in May 2004. Pitched in 104 games in 05, 06 and 07 and was 3-0 in 2007 potseason for the Red Sox.
9. Jed Lowrie, ss/2b
Rapid progression through minors since 2005. .911 (AA) and .862 OPS (AAA) in 2007. Outstanding plate discipline. Best attribute may be his ability to work pitchers for good at bats. Fundamental and athletic. Lowrie could use another half-season at AAA, but if he played for a smaller market team he would probably start the 2008 season in the majors.
10. Clay Buchholz, rhp
Rapid progression through minors since 2005. MLB debut in 2007, going 3-1 with 1.59 ERA in 4 games, including 1 CG shutout.
Mixes pitches well. Good demeanor on the mound. Pitches well under pressure, pitching coaches have said he has ice water running through his veins. Nice pick-off move. Struggled with consistency early in his pro career, but otherwise has ace makeup. Might need to add and maintain some weight to endure a full major league season.
** He is the real deal **
So, you can see that the Sox have some nice young players ready for the majors. If the Twins could get Ellsbury and/or Buchholz for Johan, it would **definitely** be worth considering.
FOX: Rosenthal - Twins better act fast on Santana
It might be now or never for the Twins if they wish to trade left-hander Johan Santana. According to major-league sources, Santana has informed the Twins that he would not waive his no-trade clause during the season, ending any chance that he could be moved before the July 31 non-waiver deadline.
Players with no-trade protection occasionally adopt such positions when they are in the free-agent years, fearing that their performance could suffer if they change teams and/or leagues just months before hitting the open market.
…
It is in Santana’s interest to be traded now because he will require a monster contract to approve a deal. It is expected that the contract would be at least six years and $120 million, and rather than enter the season with the risk of injury, he would prefer the deal to be struck as soon as possible.
SI.com: Yankees set deadline for Twins trade
The Yankees have set a Monday deadline for the Twins to respond to their proposed trade of top young pitcher Phil Hughes, center fielder Melky Cabrera and a third prospect for superstar pitcher Johan Santana, SI.com has learned.
According to the New York Times, the Yankees have declared five prospects off limits to the Twins: Dellin Betances, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and José Tabata.
The Twins are reportedly requesting Horne or Jackson along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera in a Santana deal. The Yankees’ best prospect not on the list is probably the rehabbing Humberto Sanchez. Healthy alternatives include fellow right-handers Jeff Marquez and Daniel McCutchen, “catcher” Jesus Montero, speedy center fielder Brett Gardner and first baseman Juan Miranda. Shortstop Alberto Gonzalez doesn’t rate with the rest, but he’s still someone the Twins might have their eyes on.
