Merry Christmas
Posted on December 21st, 2007 – 11:05 AMBy La Velle
The baseball department at the Star Tribune will continue to monitor any Johan Santana-related developments, but with the holidays nearing (and family members driving over from Chicago for a week) I’ll only post breaking news here. Sorry, but I haven’t even started my Christmas shopping….
If you need a Twins fix over the next week, I’ll be on KFAN with Henry Lake from 9-noon on Sunday, and I’m scheduled to fill-in for Dan Barreiro from 4-6 p.m. on Thursday (I hope Santana isn’t traded while I’m on air).
Have a wonderful Christmas.
337 Responses to "Merry Christmas"
Merry Christmas! I am hoping to receive a twins blog without “the Real Craig” on it for Christmas!
I think this means…[ I’m note sure what the hell kind of point you were trying to make here].
Have a great Holiday Season LaVelle
The newest issue of baseballamerica had a nice feature on Blackburn and how well he pitched in the Arizona Fall League.
Apparently he was relying too much on throwing hard last year when he was up with the Twins,and has tried to fix it by letting his offspeed stuff settle down a little bit.
Lets not forget about his name when we think of potential pitchers making the Twins MLB roster next year.
LEN 3: Put the laptop away and enjoy the holidays. Merry Christmas.
My master is planning to trade Mr. Santana to Los Angeles on Thursday December 27, 2007 for Adam LaRoche, Matt Kemp and Chad Billingsley.
Do not say I didn’t warn you.
Merry Christmas LEN3. Take the break, you’ve earned it after the hectic past few weeks.
I hope Smith’s hairpiece is right…
I did hear that the Dodgers arent nearly as interested in acquiring a SP since they signed Kuroda.
Every year there is a Twins pitcher who was not expected to produce but pitched big…i.e. Guerrier in 2007,Neshek in late 2006, Reyes in 2006, Liriano in early 2006, Crain in 2005, Nathan in 2004. Who will in be in 2008?
a) Blackburn
b) Duensing
c) Perkins
d) Cali
e) DePaula
f) Mijares
g) Slowey
h) Hughes?
i) Lester?
ellsbury, lowrie, lester, masterton, hughes, cano, kennedy, cabrera, jackson, tabata, jones, morrow, clemens, pie, colvin, marmol, laroche, kemp, billingsly, kershaw, wood, wright, gomez, humber, reyes, pelfrey and any other combination of names …………
i wonder how many different trade combinations have been floated on here over the last month, must be thousands.
where is craig??
Hawk
I choose option H
I also think Baker is going to become a real stud this year…In the 2007 season he showed us some real great MLB potential…not Cy Young potential…but potential to be a lockdown #2 starter.
Which CF player would you all most like to see in a Twins uniform for next year?
a) Coco Crisp (assuming we get Lester)
b) Jacoby Ellsbury (assuming we dont get Lester)
c) Melky Cabrera (assuming we get Hughes)
d) Carlos Gomez (assuming we get the rest of the Mets farm system
e) Matt Kemp
f) Adam Jones
gobbledygookguy,
How about this one,
Johan to the Toronto Blue Jays for Alex Rios and Dustin McGowan. That will teach the Sox and Yanks to string us along.
I just wanted to add more names to your list.
E (but no chance it actually happens)
does anyone know if we get the fire truck back when we trade santana?
Matt Kemp looks pretty good to me. Too bad LAD aren’t real interested in Santana. Second would be Ellsbury.
Gosh…Ellsbury, Lester, Lowrie and its a done deal.
CF - I’d pick Gomez. But I’d probably stick him in AAA until he showed me he was ready.
Pitcher - I’ll throw a dart at Perkins as being the best surprise of 2008 on that list.
Hawk, my vote goes with Slowey. If either Hughes or Lester is brought in, they will be expected to perform well and thus will only surprise if they struggle.
how about punto and puntos locker and anything he has ever had in min for a B prospect?
How about Johan Santana to the Angels for Torii Hunter, straight up.
They’ve already got a good CF in Matthews, and I’ve always been a fan of Hunter’s defense.
I think he’d be a great fit out in CF.
There are indications that we can’t afford Hunter.
T,
i wasnt kidding about the punto thing……
Chances Johan is traded before Christmas?
Ill say 25%…sound about right to everyone else or not?
Pack-up your laptop, trade ain’t happening this year.
Twins need more time to realize that the BOSOX offer is the best they are going to get.
I would say much less than 25% chance Santana is traded before Christmas. It would have to happen by Monday and I haven’t heard anything new. I would guess 5% chance it happens before Christmas. I would guess 50% chance it happens before the season starts, and 75% chance it happens anytime between now and the trade deadline.
maybe we should start thinking about possible morneau trades it will only be a year or so and we won’t beable to afford him either.
maybe just package him with santana and get it over with so we don’t have to do this next yr.
my guess is the 15th of January. hank will give in.
I honestly believe 100% that this will be decided before the end of 2007. One way or another.
gook. Look for the Twins to spend the rest of the offseason using the money saved not signing Johan to lock up Morneua, Cuddyer, possibly even Young.
T, I sincerely hope you are right with the Santana trade AND locking up Morneau, Cuddyer, and others including Young. I hope so.
99% before the start of the season
if you were morneau and look at the money being spent why would you want to sign? i think he can already see himself in pin stripes.
I think that it is possible the Twins are thinking about keeping Santana for this season if they don’t get what they want in return. The fact they have signed a 3B and a SS (although they aren’t GREAT signings) is somewhat proof. The major hole they have now is CF, although there are several other things they should probably improve on as well(DH, 3B, SS, 2B, SP, RP, etc.). I do certainly hope that the Twins trade him, but I am losing a little bit of hope with every day that passes, albeit there is still a lot of time before spring training still.
lets get this trade done ive spent too long waiting for this too happen 
I was constantly checking the internet for rumors and conversations about a possible Santana trade (mostly on the LenIII blog!). I stopped for about 2-3 weeks and not much has changed.
Blackburn:
This will be a repeat of ‘06 in this way: Three pitchers will have awesome years: Blackburn, Slowey and Perkins (if they pull him out of the bullpen).
The Twins will surprise everyone by taking the AL Central from the old folks home in Detroit.
As for Santana, I’m 50/50. As I wrote in an earlier blog, I hope B Smith signs a FA CF. That tells the Yanks, Sox, Dodgers, etc. that we don’t HAVE to trade him. If a team doesn’t meet the Twins’ minimum offer for Santana, he comes north next spring and is the opening day pitcher.
That being my hope, my thinking is that the Twins will trade him, but not until early January.
So where Santana’s concerned, I have 50 percent hope, and 50 percent expectation.
Sorry - that posting should have been addressed to Hawk, not Blackburn.
I don’t think the Lamb and Everett signings show they are thinking about keeping Santana, those guys aren’t that old and those are holes they needed to fill, with no-one in the organization to fill them with.
Lee,
Would you really prefer one more year of Santana with 2 draft picks in return, just so you can sleep at night thinking- “yeah, at least we didn’t get screwed, that’ll show the Yanks/BoSox!” (meanwhile, he just signed a contract with Boston anyway)
Chances of the Twinks trading Santana before X-mas = 0% Bill and the crew have already blasted out of the office and won’t be back until mid-next week. Even LEN3 has checked out!
silva makes santana 20 mil 6 year, look affordable, i think nothing will happen. lohse will get the same deal as silva, or close, and all twins fans will puke in their mouths at once.
i see the brewers are supposed to be talking to lofton, they’d move bill hall would he work for nathan?
gook: If the Twins approach Morneau with a deal similar to something Ryan Howard signed last year with the Phillies I think he’d be wise to take it.
He was at his peak value coming off his MVP season, struggled last season (though I wish I could struggle as good as he did) and recognizes he’s turning into the one of the key compoents the Twins are building around.
If they give him a good offer, he’ll take it.
He would work for Nathan, but they wouldn’t do that.
As for the Loshe contract, I don’t think my puke would be contained to my mouth. And I don’t think we have any reason to believe he will sign for anything less than Silva.
KB:
No - I’d prefer that they take some of the money saved by not signing Hunter and Silva, and spend it on Santana. Make him an offer of 6 years (extension) at $21 million per. I don’t think they will, but they should.
I think they will trade him. I just wish they wouldn’t.
KB, Boras is his agent.
He’ll unfortunately get more.
t what did howard sign for?
there was a report the mets offered lohse 10m 4 yrs. think they could be that stupid? anyone have any ideas who might want nathan?
nathan has intrest in cubs thats all we know
Gobbledygookguy:
Nathan won’t be traded. Who else would close? Of course, I would have thought the same of Bartlett, but now I know better.
But Nathan won’t be traded unless some team makes a huge offer. Nathan, Mauer and Morneau are opening day 2008 Twins.
I don’t recall details. I choose Howard because he was the NL MVP, put up fantastic offensive numbers…and I believe even plays first.
c’mon bill smith, give us twins fans something for xmas, please…i know we have been good, not only that, but this blog needs some new flavor…c’mon bill, i know you can pull the plug on something….
I duno MJ1, I thought the Young deal was pretty impressive.
I wish Santa would deliver a package to all of us in the form of Johan locked up for the next six years in a Twinks uniform.
However, I suppose the “True Scrooge” Carl Pohlad will foil all of our Xmas fun. He probably has Little Billy Smith looking for ways to cut payroll on Christmas Eve night….
Sigh
I fully believe that Nathan should (and will) be with the Twins opening day, but not by Aug. 1. The deadline is the perfect time to deal a closer, that’s when people get desperate for them. There won’t be much of a market for him right now.
I think there are a few people that could potentially close for the Twins adequately.
6 years scares me….
can anyone explain why terry ryan farted away a golden opportunity to re sign santana a year ago. why was he so constipated??
I dont think anybody can adequately explain the moves Terry Ryan made last offseason.
i still don’t understand the problem with a long contract for santana. maybe not most players but he is healthy always has been is the best in the game, potential hof’r. his numbers are better than koufax isn’t he the exception? they can give baby jesus 4 yrs and he’s on the dl all the time. how long before we get another player of his caliber and don’t say mauer!
sometime you have to take a chance it’s like getting married wait bad example.
What are you getting me for Christmas, La Velle?
THanks LEN. thanks for letting us know. I know I am not the only one who checks my feeds every few hours.
I hope everyone has a happy holiday.
LENIII,
Have yourself a Wonderous Holiday Season. I really appreciate all your hard work.
Regards,
Eddie! Eddie! mlb trade rumors: Eddie G is nearing a deal with Texas! He’s back at it at age 37.
By the way, is it just me or is it sad that they actualy had a jersey-holding press conference for Silva in Seattle. I’m pretty sure half the Mariner’s fans have never heard of Silva before they signed him. I guess that’s how free-agency is these days.
Merry Christmas!
Dustin at this point in time I’d rather have Eddie Murray than Eddie Guardado.
Eddie Murray at 75 years old would be a more productive DH than Kubel/Monroe… and he could be our hitting coach so that Vavra guy could go back to nowhere… where we got him from.
If the Twins trade with the Dodgers and do not get Kershaw out of the deal that would be the worst trade in Team history. Kershaw is going to win at least 2 Cy Young awards, and possibly be the next Dwight Gooden (without cocaine!)
where is everyone?
I am starting to think Coco wouldn’t be so bad for this team…He is a good fielder and a good hitter…
By the time Coco starts to wear down, Revere or Span will be ready to take his place…I think there is a pretty good chance that at least one of those two will become a good player…We could also add Perdie to that and make it a triple insurance policy…
Getting Lester, who earlier in his career was considered a better prospect than Hughes and Buckholtz would give us a pretty dang good rotation…
Take 5 of the best from:
Liriano
Baker
Lester
Boof
Slowey
Perkins
Blackburn
and whoever else we have in our back pocket…
I almost think think that the elssbury, masterson,lowrie and if they threw in bowden might do it, i like the lester package, but they need a top of the order guy who can get on base and coco just doesnt do that as often.
rick anderson is great at devloping pitchers, so pitching prospect and not major league ready to me are less important compared to an offensive spark we desprately need.
Yes, it’s the on base % for Coco - and his arm strength – that are the biggest concerns. He gets to the ball and flags down fly balls well, but his assists are lacking.
He would be acceptable, but I really think if the Twins don’t get a CF through FA or trade, Pridie will do well, at least offensively. Look at his AAA stats.
He’s ready for the big show.
You guys are speaking my language!!!! The ability of the Twins to devolp some pitching and the depth of their current prospects, we need a potential big time offensive table setter more than another pitching prospect and a potential OK centerfielder.
Something about Ellsbury turns me off…maybe it’s the fact that we prolly wont keep him long term…
Here is something to talk about…Who has a better middle order than the Twins…Let’s count the teams…
Twins 2-5 spots as of now:
Mauer (batting champ)
Young (potential superstar)
Cuddy (clutch and underrated)
Mourneau (mvp)
That’s of course assuming they all hit their potential…tell me who is better…
You can’t complain about not being able to keep Ellsbury long term. He’s played like 20 games. We get him for the next 6 years if we do that trade.
Also, the Reds traded Josh Hamilton to the Rangers for Edinson Volquez a highly rated pitching prospect.
Coco is a solid CF’r but he is a lousy leadoff hitter, and the Twins only have one other player that could hit leadoff, and Gardy isn’t man enough to try it.
Mauer
Crisp
Morneau
Young
Cuddyer
Kubel
Lamb
Harris
Everett
Does that look nearly as good as
Ellsbury
Harris
Mauer
Cuddyer
Morneau
Young
Kubel
Lamb
Everett
Cuddy is overrated he strikes out all the time. His defense is stellar in right but lets get real he is not a clutch hitter he is the definite weak spot in that lineup. I like Cuddy but lets not call him clutch.
Swithching topics, with the money were are saving on santana and hunter and maybe nathan, we had better lock up young, mauer, mornoe, and maybe Cuddyer big time.
sorry i cant spell Justin’s last name. And by the way we should not trade Joe Nathan, we need to sign him
lame
if they are going to go young, ellsbury is the perfect canidate, its many years before he hits the market, and if we need to we learned from hunter, is to pull the trade trigger the year before he become a free agent. or matt kemp, or adam jones. just get some life into the team.
Tyler dosen’t know what he’s talking about. Cuddy in effing amazing.
–Ellsbury would fill the blaring hole in the leadoff spot and be a cornerstone for the future.
Cuddy is good but not great yet i love his defense and he has the potential of being a great hitter, but his is not a great hitter yet and is definetely not clutch. With this being said though, i like cuddy he can be great and i want him to be signed.
He had 100+ RBIs last year.
Who had 100+ RBI last year? Cuddy? He had 81.
if nathan and johan are traded, and Morneau and cuddy are not locked up in long term, we revolt and take our stadium back.
sorry, 100+ RBIs in 06
That is what I thought you were talking about… I just started thinking did I compeletly miss last season, started to get worried.
Sorry, In my mind I am still thinking it is the 07 season, making last season 06.
Cuddyer had 81 RBI last yeat
Here is the facts with Cuddyer. He has never had more than 24 HR, never batted better than .274, and strikes out way to much for a hitter who has not hit 25+ HR. Could he getter better. Definetely, and i hope we sign but lets not get carried away.
*81 RBI this year
admit it, he’s effing amazing.
Have a good holiday La Velle, but go easy on that toilet!
Tyler, as you can see we established it was 81 RBI this year. Thanks
Also Cuddy is decent, probably the best option the Twins have. I really think a lot of his production was down last year because of naging injuries, nothing more nothing less.
ok he is effing amazing i want cuddyer for christmas
dont you bring sas into this kitchen TJ
If the twins make a trade for a CF without Santana in the deal’ you can bet he will be hear next season and the we get nothing in the end.
TRADE SANTANA NOW!!!!
watch we will trade someone like liriano for our center fielder (ala garza young) and wil keep santana and get nothing for him …..
Lets get back to Santana. Why not sign him to a 6 year extension at 170 million. Then we dont have to except a trade before xmas like everyone in here expects. That way the twins can “hold out” until they get what they want. Thoughts? Is this crazy?
Does anybody else really not want to trade Johan to the Red Sox??? because i really dont like the idea of trading him there and i dont like the players will be getting back
Cuddyer is better than Aaron Rowand…
probably is crazy for these threads. i didn’t include my 9 man lineup that included reyes in it.
The most classic post ever, was just by JMAN at 6:30, “Go Easy on that toilet!” Nice!!!
BC, pay me a homage to my link. I have to yours.
You guys need to see Coco play every day in order to see his true value in playing CF. He IS the best defensive CF in the game. The reason his OBP is lower than it was in Clev is it is very hard to play in Bostonwith all it’s pressure. Once Coco gets out of Bos. he will relax more and revert to his Clev days. He’ll have more power and a better OBP. Trust me, I’ve watched play for the last 2 years.
Why the Coco sell? One big solid year though. Is that enough???
Coco had two great years in Cleveland.
2004 - .297ave; .344obp; 15hr; 71rbi
2005 - .300ave; .345obp; 16hr; 69rbi
He had 28 sb last year in Boston.
Those obp’s (.344,.345) compare with Shannon Stewart’s obp the last 3 years (.323,.347 and .345).
If Stewart is a professional leadoff hitter, than so is Crisp. (especially since Crisp can actually still steal bases.
Adam Jones has more potential upside than Kemp,but either would help us greatly
Sane
Re Crisp, you consider those great years? If you do, then you must be speechless when it comes to centerfielders like Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays, or even Griffy and Andrew Jones
how about santana for garvey, sax, and van.? maybe we throw in rincon. tell me what you think.
ESPN.com’s Buster Olney lays a little knowledge on us all this morning, in his daily blog:
Joba Chamberlain is likely to start the ‘08 season in the bullpen. He may join the rotation around mid-season however, depending on the health of the staff and possible innings caps on Hughes and/or Kennedy.
Now what does Joba’s role mean or is a Yankee false signal (if true) that they are moving along.
moving elsewhere?
According to Buster Olney’s blog, the New York Mets can have SP Joe Blanton for the following package: Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman, and Kevin Mulvey. Blanton, 27 , is a work-horse who is just entering his prime. He pitched 230 innings last year for Oakland, and he is 42-34 over the last three seasons for Oakland. He would project as a solid #3 starter in the National League.
Kloob,
Why the sell because you guys act like he is scrap heap material when he is a very good player. The only negative thing about Coco is he doesn’t have the strongest arm but he gets to balls no other OF’s can.
Carl signed Puckett. (not we signed puckett)
Who remembers that? Mn was shocked!
How about MN signs Cytana!
Kloob, I checked out your page. Interesting take on baseball.
While I’m not a fan of the Vegan lifestyle I don’t have a problem with Dennis. It’s more of an issue with the people in charge of things right now. I will be kind and stop the political dogmatic bickering that could start now.
Sorry about the choice of adjective.
I only meant comparatively great as in compared to Melky.
.273 8-73 13SB .327obp
Paul
Coco Crisp is a great 8th or 9th place hitter.
His OB% is what kills us with him.
The Twins need a leadoff hitter
Crisp’s obp when he was healthy in Cleveland were .344 and .345.
Shannon Stewart’s last three obp’s were .323, .347 and .345.
Add Crisp’s last two years had 22 and 28 stolen bases.
Crisp is a better leadoff than Stewart altough Gardy had Stewart bat leadoff and Luis Catillo bat 2nd.
i know this is a twins blog but the twolves played a great game to get a win
Sane….
Gardy doesn’t make sense.
Gardy might not be able to read or write.
But Gardy somehow finds a way to win.
That’s awesome Dan
Paul,
While Coco might be serviceable as a CF, you cannot, and will not convince he is even remotely desirable as trade-bait. The Twinks can sign 41-year old Kenny Lofton, and he will equal Sweet Coco’s numbers.
Note to Bill Smith: Please don’t do that.
BC, I am the farthest thing from Vegan. Dennis sucks. In fact, last night I drank a few too many Heineycoogles and ate my black lab for lack of a Jack’s Pizza.
check it out whoremongers.
LENIII, get mad at me all you want for self-promoting, I’ve been reading your jargon for the last 10 years.
this 72 million payroll stuff has to end. With such a payroll, some slacker like Carlos Silva would get 1/6 of the payroll.
As Dan Barreiro said today, baseball economics are stupid, obscene, ridiculous, etc, but thats the way it is. If Carl does not like it, sell the team to someone who will.
Lets sign Santana now. 25 million is cheap for a pitcher the way its going.
One question is did Crisp peak in 2004-05, considering the last two years. Melky just finished his second year in the league. His ceiling is higher, I would think.
I would take Adam Jones with Matt Kemp a close second.
Roundabout,
That is a good question.
Possibly Crisp didn’t handle Sox Nation pressure or was hurt.
Also possible that you are right and he did peak although he was only 26-27 years old the last two years.
Is Carlos Silva worth 12 mill a year? I’m fascinated by how this game works. Dontrelle was close to arse last year, and is not getting that. Heres a question. What would Scott Baker be worth right now on the market?
For that matter, Lohse’s 5.40 ERA is going to net $10 mill a year? What the hell would have Mike Smithson been worth a year back in the day???
Steve, you would take those two over Ellsbury?
I think Jones could be something amazing, but he’s a long way from a sure shot.
Ellsbury isn’t perfect, but he could be the best leadoff hitter in the American League by the end of his rookie Season. I’ve read all the reports on him, and on most everyone else as well, but I saw Ellsbury’s swing. He hits the ball well. He gets very good contact on the ball because he has a good eye at the plate. I really see him as a Knoblauch kind of leadoff hitter.30-40 doubles, 5 triples, 8-10 homers, and 30-40 steals with a .400 ob%
Every team needs a super star, and Jones very well could be that but Ellsbury could be a team leader… he’s been through the world series… he’s been brought up as a Red Sox ball player… the Red Sox and the Yankees have a mystique about them that is different… you wear those uniforms and it means something more than somewhere else.
Don’t believe me call KG up and ask him what it means to play in Boston… and I mean beyond the winning which is fabulous for him, and the kickback the McHale will get… but they have a pride, an aura… something almost mythical… Adam Jones could be a Griffey, or an Eric Davis even (which isn’t such a bad thing), but he could be the next Willie Ansley, or the next Sam Horn, or the next whomever… the next in a long line of failed prospects as well. I don’t see Ellsbury’s star being as bright, but see it being at All Star level, and I see it by 2010… not just being a major leaguer by 2010.
The other thing I like about Ellsbury over Jones and Kemp.
Ellsbury has actually been offered in trade. (if we can believe what we have read)
Twins should have traded from their pitching depth to get Josh Hamilton.
Then either keep Santana and sign him or get the top pitching prospects for him.
sign santana
pitches first half of the season if twins are out of it trade him before the deadline
if they are in the race keep him and trade him at end of year
if lirano pitches like he can????for the playoff you would have the best 1-2 punch in all of baseball (3baker no slouch)
hes’s worth 22-25 mil why not have him pitch for you this year at 11 mill 50% off:)
Way more options why not????
Bill,
I agree.
Hamilton would have allowed us to do without Ellsbury (or any CF) in the Santana trade.
That would have given us three overall nunber one draft picks- Hamilton, Mauer and Young.
rick d
one of the problems with keeping Santana is that once the season starts, he may invoke the NO TRADE clause and we won’t be able to trade him. What if he does not want to pitch for the Twins?
If you keep Santana until the trade deadline, he will do the same thing as Hunter.
1) Refuse to negotiate.
2) Refuse to accept a trade.
3) Go to Free Agency where 3-4 teams will bid against each other.
4) Sign for 7years/$200 million.
5) Twins get two draft choices who are 50% chance to ever be MLB players.
After seeing what the Rangers gave up for Hamilton that is a player that we should have had. He has so much up side that we should have been going after him hard. Forget Coco and Ellsbury. Forget Melky. If we picked up Hamilton we could have asked for a differant trade package all together. One that we could have focused on the best players being offered instead of our team needs. I Just think we missed out on a great deal the guy that Texas gave up was not that special we have 5 or 6 guys better than he will be in our system.
I heard on Barreiro yesterday that not only is Carl Pohlad the richest owner in baseball, but, he is richer by a billion dollars over the second richest owner (John Malone)
I will now hear the howls, just because he is rich, doesnt mean he should dump his own money into the Twins, the business should stand on its own.
And normally, I would agree. But it also reasons that if he is that rich, the public should not have paid for his ballpark, he certainly could have paid for his ballpark on his own.
Since he did not, he now can and should be expected to put some of his own money into the team, to sign top players like Johan, because the public paid for the stadium which he otherwise should have paid for.
Now from a strategic point of view, it appears the best business move would be to sigh Johan for 25 mill a year, as obscene as it sounds, as it will be a bargain in a few years based on what Silva signed for. Sure, that would mean he would be eating up 1/3 of the payroll, but frankly, that must also change. 75 million dollar payrolls are not going to cut it in todays wacky baseball economics.
Once again, if Carl does not like that, fine, but sell to someone who will play. Sports pundits such as Jim Souhan, Dan Barreiro, and others have stated the same.
Kevin
I have a tendancy to agree with you on rich owners paying for their own stadiums, they make the money on them, but I wonder if the league would frown on that because then all owners would be wanted to build their own stadiums. I thought I heard that about one of the sports leagues where they did not want owners footing the bills. Since the owners pretty much run the leagues anyway.
going back… I predict Ellsbury to be a rookie of the year canidate in 08, be very solid in 09, and definately be an all-star in ‘10.
Hey kloob, I checked out your link, so you should hit up mine.
ackack
MLB is making so much money its ridiculous. That is what is fueling 12 million a year for Silva type players.
If MLB makes this kind of money, NO city should asking taxpayers to build stadiums.
woulda shoulda coulda
another CF bites the dust.
Kevin… the fact of the maters is that we have the stadium, the bill past, the construction started… the tax will be paid… don’t buy stuff at the mall of america, or buy a vehicle in the Twin Cities and you’ll be ok.
I thank God for Brad Childress, Kevin McHale, and Carl Pohlad… as much as I love the teams… because of those three people I will not go to another game (unless someone gives me tickets) as long as they are part of their perspective leagues’ Minnesota teams.
And anyone with half a brain doesn’t spend money at the MOA anyways.
Nasty, which contributor are you?
kevin
I’m in agrrement with you, I’m on your side. Owners are owners, and if they can get local governments to build their stadiums they will. I think it is rediculous that someone like Silva gets the kind of money they are throwing at him, but the way sports is watered down nowadays, that is what happens with so-so players being necessary for sports teams
You know Kevin. It’s the holiday season…this thread was to wish everybody a Merry Christams (and a Happy Holidays to those who don’t celebrate the other).
Can we just, you know, good will towards mankind and all that in this one? Go to the last entry or JoeC or Howard if you want to keep up the same old complaints
But man, just another day here in Minnesota…
I contribute by spreading the word.
I don’t think we could’ve got Hamilton for our pitching prospects. The guy the Rangers dealt has top of the rotation potential. The only guy that we have that is comparable is Liriano. Baker, Slowey, Boof, Blackburn, etc. are all solid, but lack the upside of Edinson Volquez. Maybe a combination of two of them might have got it done, but I don’t think Billy Smith wanted to do that because we need them for next year.
Did you Read the Article?
The Article says Don’t Expect The Yankees to acquire Santana by Christmas because Mlb offices will be closed until Jan 2
ackack why wouldn’t santana want to pitch for twins???
sane i purposed to sign him before this season starts.. then we hold the cards
if we sign santana now he doesn’t risk the chance of having a bad year or injury
Guys, boston fan here..you can pretty much forget about getting Ellsbury cause our FO won’t deal him. It’s going to be Lester, Crisp, Masterson, Lowrie and possibly Kalish for Santana and a twin prospy is about as good as deal as you are going to get and it is a damn good deal at that.
Boston guys are hard to believe. For some reason they seemed biased.
I just had a great idea. We give Santana and Pirdie for Ellsbury and Buckholtz/Lester. If we aquire Ellsbury, we don’t need Pirdie, and for the BoSox Pirdie will be ready to take over when Crisp is done.
rick d
just my hunch, Santana did not appear to have a very good attitude about being with the Twins after Castillo was traded and we did not bring anyone in to help after July 31st. Maybe that was just the way he felt last year. He may not feel they will put a winning team around him to make a run for the World Series ring I’m sure he would like to have. I guess I should have said, if he does not want to play for the Twins, but it could be a possibility. Do you really thing that Mr. Pohlad will pay out the kind of money he wants?
rick d,
The reason Santana might not want to sign with the Twins is:
If the Twins sign him for 7 years @ $20-30 million, they will not be able (or willing?) financially to surround him with good enough players to get him a ring .
The big market teams could do that.
And the jackass media and jackass public will always say “he couldn’t win a championship”.
(remember Tarkenton, KG, Marino, etc)
Scott (Boston fan),
How do you know what the Sox front office will or won’t do?
Are you the janitor there?
Based upon what I have read in the newspapers and heard on TV, the Red Sox offer for Johan Santana is the only one in play. The Yankee offer with Phil Hughes and Lekly Cabrera proabably is half-on the table but the third player is not. Who knows what the Yanks will do.
The Red Sox, at this point, are not giving up Ellsbury or Buchholz and they have no reason to do so if they are the only player for Santana. Unless someone comes and sweetens the deal, the Red Sox don’t have to budge.
What’s scaring off teams is not Santana or giving up talent, it is the salary Santana will command and the years - 7 years is a long time for a 28-old-year and 140M, to start, is a big investment. Only a pennant contender need apply. The Twins may have to settle for less (Red Sox deal isnt that bad), sign Santana or keep him for the next season and then lose him.
If Red Sox were going to given in they would have already, it seems to me.
Saturday, December 22, 2007
Yankees Not In On Santana? Why Their Package Isn’t Enough
http://modernrooters.blogspot.com/
Earlier today, Newsday cited a source “with knowledge of the situation”, who on behalf of the Yankees said, “I don’t see it happening with us. We pulled out in Nashville, and we haven’t put an offer back on the table.” Now I don’t know about you, but I find it highly unlikely that the Yankees are completely out.
My personal opinion, is that the Yankees at this point aren’t willing to give up Hughes and another quality prospect. They’ve demonstrated a strong unwillingness to include a player such as Chamberlain or Kennedy. And such unwillingness seems rather intelligent. They’ve also been unwilling, however, to include less valuable prospects such as Alan Horne, Jose Tabatha, or even Austin Jackson.
Whether that thinking will be best for the organization has yet to be seen, but what’s clear now is that it’s likely not the type of thinking that could land them Santana. I don’t think any reasonable fan doubts the value of Phil Hughes. He projects as an ace, and is likely to be better than anyone offered in a Red Sox package. But the Yankees best offered package of Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and Jeff Marquez offers very little talent in addition to Hughes.
Melky Cabrera’s greatest asset is his price. He will be cost controlled for years to come. But his abilities as a baseball player aren’t very impressive to anyone outside of New York. Melky’s power is very limited, he’s slugged only .391 the past two seasons and his patience at the plate is inconsistent. Last year, among center fielders who qualified, Cabrera ranked 10th out of 13th in OPS. And even if he does eventually live up to his minor league line, an OPS of .769, his offensive output would be average for the weak hitting position of a center fielder.
On the defensive side, Cabrera has a rocket for an arm. But I don’t think it quite makes up for his limited range and poor instincts. I play softball with some Yankees fans, and when someone takes a poor route to a fly ball, they dub that “pulling a Melky”. When someone misjudges a ball at the wall that used to be a “Milledge” but after Delmon Young misjudged a David Ortiz walkoff home run last year, it’s now more popularly known as a “Delmon”.
As far as Jeff Marquez, it’s not as if he doesn’t have potential. Marquez is a 23-year-old sinkerball pitcher in the Yankees farm system. He typically throws in the low 90’s and has a plus change but he needs much more development. Marquez doesn’t have the ability to strike many batters out, and throughout his minor league career he’s allowed more hits than innings pitched, which is concerning considering he’s only in Double-A. He also has an injury history, which sidelined him for much of his 2006 season.
If the Yankees were serious about Santana, they’d definitely have to add more value to their package. It takes more than one high quality prospect to acquire any ace in a trade, let alone one considered the best pitcher in baseball. But as of now, it looks like they’ll be content to go with the players they have, even if that means the Red Sox may acquire the Twins ace.
I know this has been stated before, but if we can’t get value for Johan. We simply tell him he is going to throw 130+ pitches for every start. He can take his chances on risk of injury, or truly sign a reasonable hometown discount. Unethical? Possibly, but we did take the chance with Rule 5, stick with him, and make him who he is. Johan should remember that. I’m all for a free market, but it seems the MLB does need some regulations put in place in relation to salary caps and what not. For the sake of Phillip Drummond.
I don’t see how anyone can force Santana to throw 130 pitchers a game. I don’t think trying to ruin his arm is the answer. That seems rather draconian.
I’d like to see Bill Smith just say what’s really on his mind. I think it would go something like “F___ you Red Sox, Yankees, and Johan, and the horses you rode in on.”
It’s not like the SOB Pohlad and his greedy, never worked an honest day in their lives sons give a s___ about any kind of competitive product out on the field now that they got their free stadium.
Go Northern League!
there is a much bigger issue than Johan now
If Silva gets 12 million a year, what can the Twins future be under this owner?
with his payroll, we could afford six Silva types,,, whoopi doo
baseball has a mess on their hands and it needs to be addressed. It is long since time for an NFL type salary cap.
If there is no salary cap, then owners like Carl who do not want to spend money should get out of it.
Hey roundabout, why should you give a s___ if Santana pitches 130+ per outing? Worried that your bargain basement rip-off offer of the last remaining superstar from Minnesota won’t go to the Northeast in good shape?
Just,
I talking about the idea of ruining a pitcher’s career, out of spike and stupidity. Why, would you advocate ruining Santana’s arm? Besides, the Twins will not force him to throw that many pitches. He can win 9 inning games throwing less than 100.
Hey, have your cheapskate owner pay the cost and you won’t lose Santana. Don’t the Twins get luxury tax revenue. Pay the best pitcher in baseball. Or maybe Twins fans have to pay more in ticket prices to back their team.
You are probably the type of child who kicks a dog for not obeying or smacks a child for not listening. I hope those are not midwest ideals.
um, roundabout, it’s “out of spite,” not “spike,” and I don’t think it’s stupid at all. He might be able to win 9 inning games in Fantasy Baseball Land, but on the Twins, he’s been done at 100 almost all of the time because the Twins manager still believes that one good deed will get another in response, except Santana doesn’t play that way, does he? If he did, he’d be negotiating in good faith with the Twins, or he’d hold a news conference and say why it ain’t happening.
I just think Santana can earn his keep if he pitches this year for the Twins, and save the pen for the entire balance of the rotation. I mean, the poor guys in the pen need a break, and since Santana ain’t going to be here after ‘08, why not have him be picking up the slack.
Our cheapskate owner is currently negotiating with Satan on a lower price for his timeshare in hell, so he’s a little busy at the moment. Twins fans and non-fans have paid SOB Pohlad $375 mil, so we don’t need to pay higher ticket prices.
Oh, and the animal cruelty and child abuse stuff you seem to think I’m all about? Save it for the mirror, pal, and shove your East Coast “ideals” of buying championships way up in your fat a__. I hear your “wife” says there’s plenty of room up there.
Get a grip.
The Twins finished 3rd with Santana and they may (or may not) win a championship with Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson and Bowden or whoever..
Trading Santana may work out as well as trading AJ for Nathan, Liriano and Bonser.(who nobody heard of at the time)
You don’t know if all or any of the players we get in trade will become stars.
And no one, not even Santana, is a sure thing.
Come down off the ledge!!!
sane
do you know for a fact that the package you listed in your post is what Boston is offering still?
Just,
Thanks for correcting my typo.
You brought up the nasty stuff. Obviously, you can’t handle the fact you have a second-rate owner and franchise. And yes, it’s spiteful to want to ruin a pitcher’s arm because he wants to leave. And that’s what you are advocating. People will see that as a reflection of you.
Our championships were won on the field and so what if we pay high salaries. Oh and Yes Santana would look excellent in pinstripes.
Sane,
You could be correct about those Red Sox players. At the very least, they could help the Twins remain competitive. Does Twins management like those guys enough to take them in a trade, is the unanswered question.
ackack,
I don’t KNOW if anything I have read is true.
I have read a Lester, Crisp, Lowrie and Masterson package was once on the table but no one in either front office ever confirms the names until there is an agreement.
So I know NOTHING for a fact.
sane
if that package is offered, do you think that it’s worth taking. I don’t know much about most of those players, but it looks like it would be worth it for the Twins, I mean, what do we have to look forward to unless someone else offers a better deal?
It is being reported now that the Orioles GM is finished listening to the trade offers for Erick Bedard. Is that good news or bad news for the Twins, or not important
In the topic of Santana trades the Twins need to continue to wait until they get Lester and Ellsbury in the same package. Lester, Ellsbury, Masterson is a fair package for Santana I can live without Lowrie. Scouts believe Masterson is going to be great.
Oh, heck, I’ll go two better and say I can handle the fact that the Twins have a fourth-rate owner who has made the franchise into what it is now, and that’s massively tarnished.
But you know what? I think it’s spiteful that a pitcher like Santana throws all these conditions on what he will and will not allow to make a trade happen. I think it’s spiteful that he won’t throw the Twins a bone and allow them something serious to think about for common ground, given the Twins made Santana into who he is. If he doesn’t want to cooperate, why continue to baby him? Just so he’s in lightly-used shape for the Collective Borg in NY or MA at the expense of the Twins, who are still owed a year from him?
It ain’t a reflection of me at all. It’s called playing hardball.
Your championships were bought, and then redeemed on the field. Oh, and it’s a damn uneven field at that.
I don’t give a s___ how Santana will look in your stripes, a____. I’ve already seen him for years in Twinstripes.
That deal is far,far better than two draft choices, each of which has a good chance of becoming like Ryan Mills, Matt Moses, Denard Span- all first rounders.
sane
that’s what I pretty much feel at this point. It’s getting weary as a fan wading through all this “business”. I know a lot of fans are frustrated at all sides of the issue, I just hope that we can get something of some value for the Twins and everyone move on soon.
ellsbury, masterson, lowrie. oh ya oh ya ahhhh ohhhhh yessssssssssss
If the Twins made Santana who he is, they just need to make ten more just like him every five years and we will never have a problem.
The difference between Santana and the other Twins pitchers can be credited to Santana.
I like how people complain that baseball contracts are getting to be too bloated, and in the same breath turn around and complain that the owners are stupid for not shelling out more bloated contracts.
T,
Good observation.
Some bloggers are not happy unless they are unhappy.
I’m sure Curt Flood had good intentions, but what a mess this has created. I don’t know all the ramifications, but if the “children” (players and owners) can’t get along then maybe the parent (Bud) needs to set some new rules.
The difference between Santana and the remaining Twins pitchers is that Santana had more raw material to work with early on that what the current crop has and the Twins didn’t rush him to get to where he is but don’t forget that Anderson deserves a helluva lot of credit, too. I’ve not forgotten about other great Twins pitchers of the past, and clearly Santana deserves his praise now, but he can remember his roots, too, you know? I am just so damn sick of hearing how out of all the other teams in baseball, the Twins are stuck with negotiating with only a couple of them.
There’s gotta be a big change for baseball to be real. Competition is just window dressing when teams buy championships, and I don’t appreciate greedy players and cheapskate owners one damn bit. Isn’t this ultimately depending on fans to work? I’m getting close to just ignoring the majors like what happened after the strike.
Just Sayin,
The Yankees haven’t been able to buy a championship in a long time.
In the meantime, the Marlins won two.
The Twins won in ‘87 and’91.
The A’s have been in the playoff several times.
The Indians have a lower payroll than the ‘07 Twins and were almost as good as
the Sox last year. (and better than the Yankees)
And the Twins won 3 divisions in five years.
It is not all about the money.
Hey Sane, the BosSox bought themselves some nice, shiny rings, didn’t they? How ’bout dem Marlins and their inflated payrolls back when they weren’t obviously screwing over their fans? Do you like the Twins prospects in the last bunch of years whenever they play against the Yanks? When they play the BosSox? How about this year when they play Detroit? Or the Angels? Money matters a ton, and all you have to do is look at the ‘08 season and see where you’d place your bets. If it ain’t fair, it ain’t fair.
Please don’t forget that in 1987 and 1991, the Twins had the highest payroll in baseball….. Kind of shoots that theory to bits in a way….
Yes, certain teams have impressively built low-cost squads that have made a big splash for a year or two. However, are they ever held in regards as a serious contender each and every year like the Big-Market teams with their own TV networks? No. They are not.
Good stuff, Kloob. Now time for beers.
Agreed. Throw back a few Heinekens and sleep away the sorrow of the payroll status…
I love the MLB, and will never stop adamantly following it, regardless of payroll. For me it is sort of like the dirty mistress you can just never get rid of.
However, it just seems so blasted unfair that fans have to suffer through the blatant inequalities posed by a business that refuses to fix things because profits are through the roof. I understand it is a business, but that business is being driven by a handful of markets (NY, LA, Chicago, and a couple of fringe players.
Make the field semi-even like the NFL. Let the Billy Beane’s of the world truly use their talents in a field that isn’t based on affordability. The fans suffer tremendously. Why should all but a handful of clubs only have a realistic chance of shining for a year or two at most, and even that comes along at a rare clip???
It’s upsetting. *Tear drops into my beer* Crap, now my wife is yelling at me for typing to loud. Sorry I blew up.
Boston Globe Nick Cafardo - Today’s Article on Santana
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/12/23/perry_cuts_to_the_chase/?page=4
Page 4 of 4 –
Santana clause
Here’s the skinny on a possible deal for Johan Santana. The Red Sox would break from their philosophy of not giving out long-term deals for Santana. They’d prefer fewer than the seven years agent Peter Greenberg is seeking but will go there for one of the top two or three pitchers. Since the winter meetings, nothing has changed with Boston’s offer, but after the New Year things are expected to get down to the nitty-gritty, when Minnesota will expect the Yankees and Red Sox to give their final “best offer.” The Sox are still offering Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Justin Masterson, and Jed Lowrie. If the Yankees don’t include Ian Kennedy, the Red Sox will land him. As to the growing theory that Josh Beckett would be bent out of shape over Santana earning twice as much, forget it. Beckett signed the contract and knew what he was doing.
more stories like this
Pitch counts count
One thing that makes the Santana deal attractive to the Red Sox is the great care the Twins have taken with the ace since he entered the big leagues in 2000. In 251 games and 175 starts, only once did he reach the 120-pitch mark. That came in a 7-1 loss to the White Sox April 21, 2006, at Chicago, where he went seven innings.
Mariners in the mix
Sources inside the Mariners organization still indicate they’re alive on Santana and Baltimore’s Erik Bedard. There’s a lot of disappointment in Seattle over losing the Hiroki Kuroda bidding with the Dodgers. He was clearly the best of the available free agent pitchers, which forced the Mariners to sign former Twin Carlos Silva to a four-year, $48 million deal that is hard to figure. Do the Mariners have the pieces to land Santana and Bedard? Among Adam Jones, Brendan Morrow, and catching prospect Jeff Clement, they probably do. But the issue is: Can they satisfy Santana’s contract demands? In a division where the Angels have improved, the Mariners are feeling some pressure to do something big.
No bluffing on this deal
Sox may need to up Ramirez ante
http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1062282#articleFull
Every offseason presents a whole new set of storylines. But next year’s might be Oscar worthy.
For the Red Sox [team stats], there is the impending free agency of catcher Jason Varitek [stats] and the task of replacing starter Curt Schilling [stats].
But the player who will potentially headline the drama is Manny Ramirez [stats], staring at a club option of $20 million for each of the two years after 2008. Once thought to be a destination not to be concerned with because of the Red Sox’ front office’s previous run-ins with the left fielder, the notion of Ramirez sticking around for a ninth year could be a plausible scenario.
Let’s start with Ramirez’ sudden love for life with the Red Sox, which was on display for at least a few to see immediately following his recent Duck Boat ride. Who would have envisioned the slugger finishing up his latest championship parade, pointing to the retired Sox numbers along the outside of Fenway Park [map] wall and making it clear that he not only wanted to retire a Red Sox, but hoped to have his own number immortalized at Fenway.
Then there is the most recent benchmark for the kind of contract Ramirez would be garnering if the first option is picked up, Andruw Jones. True, the center fielder brings a boatload more defense than Ramirez, and is five years younger.
But what the Dodgers are paying slightly more than $36 million for over the next two years is a hard-to-find, middle-of-the-order bat. And while many can point to Ramirez’ “down” season a year ago, it dwarfed the one turned in by Jones (.222 batting average).
It might be all moot if Ramirez doesn’t find his way after hitting just 20 home runs last season, or if the Sox decide their money is better spent on a seven-year, $140 million deal for Johan Santana.
Yet, remember, the Dodgers paid Jones because he was that rare meat-of-the-order option. Considering who else is likely to be available on the free agent market next year (see accompanying chart), it certainly heightens the prospects of retaining Manny
Contract Extension for Manny and $25 million dollars?
Sane, The reason I know FO office is that I am friend of a local sports reporter who is very close to Red Sox reporter who covers the team closely who is in the know.
As for being a janitor, I don’t have any intentions on getting in your way of your dream job or wish to get in the way of your career expectation for yourself.
Scott,
Sorry about the janitor crack.
I already have my dream job - retirement.
My point is that even someone who knows someone who knows someone whose in the know doesn’t know.
Kloob, I seem to remember the Twins trying to put together they’re own television network.
I also seem to recall Victory Sports somehow coming back and being another example of Pohlad’s greed.
I have a question, Who wouldn’t be happy if we got just Ellsbury and Masterson for Santana? I personally would be extremely content with that. I see Lester as a descent pitcher in the future, but nothing compared to Ellsbury’s game-changing potential.
Scott,
Why didn’t the Sox say Ellsbury was unavailable in the Santana trade as they did Buchholtz? (and the Yankees did Joba)
Why was Ellsbury quoted as saying he was still with the Red Sox “so far”?
If he was unavailable, I believe the Sox would have told him.
Agreed T. That was the case. However, how nice the thought, I think it will be fairly difficult to make a Network like that work in anything but one of the Big Three markets. Thus, once again showing the disparity. Just because you have a larger market, shouldn’t mean you should be able to buy ALL of the talent. That is of course, unless you are going to run a sport as 100% business, as such is the case, and have no regulations on fielding an even playing field.
**Disclaimer** This is all moot until the proverbial dung hits the fan and the economy collapes and fans can’t afford tickets anymore because they spend all of their money on their interest-only adjustable prime rate mortgages… Then Carl will really be in his heyday. Foreclosure Heaven!
Merry Christmas to everyone. Happy New Year also. Little, if anything, will happen on the Twins’ front before January. Things could start happening fast then. See you then guys.
Johan deal soon?
There are 364 days after New Year’s - a broad time frame (even less cause Santana will become a FA sometime in October/November) LOL
So, what we’re being told then is unless the Yanks step up and offer Hughes, Kennedy and more propects or another team offers a breath-taking deal, the Twins will take the Red Sox offer, sans Ellsbury and Buchholz. It’s a decent deal - and not to many teams have or are willing to fork over such high-level prospects and pay Santana 140M over 7 years (if that’s what he wants)
Then we can all move on - and see who wins on the diamond.
Merry Christmas to all
Guys, to answer why Ellsbury isn’t available, my question to you is when Ellsbury’s name first came up in trade talks, whose idea do you think it was to switch his agent to Boras? It was the Sox because they know your owner is too cheap to deal with him.
Kloob, the reason that Victory didn’t take off that well is that it came RIGHT as the season was starting, instead of launching with various content and working the Twins over to VS.
The time of year that it started, I don’t believe there was much in the way of OTHER sports content to fill it with.
If they would’ve made sure to have other teams on board (Gophers, Vikings, Wolves, Wild) they could’ve slowly migrated a few games over and let the fans come.
I wouldn’t mind having a Minnesota sports network, I just didn’t like the Ultimatum style they presented it.
That’s funny. I was just telling someone about Victory Sports last night. At the time I was really mad because they had issues with the cable companies. In retrospect, if the Twins had the network they would have more revenue, therefor more money to spend. Fickle, fickle fans, we are.
Good points, and I don’t argue the possiblility of how nice it would have been. I just am not convinced our market would have supported it enough to make it fiscally beneficial. Fickle fans we are indeed!
There is some smart fans on here, want to contribute a piece to our website? We will publish it because that’s just what we do. We are non-profit, and are just looking for good stuff to post about Twins and lots of other subjects on our site. Visit and send us a submission if you so choose….
http://www.sharkshellfish.com
Shameless, I know, but I’m not doing this for money and don’t want to spend money getting the word out.
Kloob, no offense, but if you want intellegent posts on your site, you might want to tone down the ignorant, derogatory comments. They make your site the last place intellegent people would want to spend their time.
RyanW. No offense your way either. I’m aiming for people who think the way of the site. That is folks of all mindsets, with a slant to the right. Many people won’t like the content, and I respect that. It’s not intended to make money, so the takes won’t be aimed at pleasing the masses. Thanks for your input though. Intelligence is in the eye of the beholder I guess, but that is a discussion for a different time and place. The people playing a piece in the site have professions that would surprise you. Anyhow, carry on.
Scott,
You are telling me that:
(1)the Red Sox chose Ellsbury’s agent for him and
(2)they picked Scott Boras.
I’m not sure which of those two items are more nonsense, but its close.
I’d want my employer to chose my agent,
and Boras is a great choice for the Red Sox if they keep Ellsbury.
If they don’t want the Twins to get Ellsbury, all they have to do is keep him out of the trade offer.
If your source told you that piece of cr-p, his credibility is cr-p.
“Intelligence is in the eye of the beholder”
intellectual relativism… intereresting concept.
So like Craig is smarter than a rock, so that makes Craig smart…
or is it Craig thinks he is intellegent, so then he is.
Benevolence is bliss my friend.
Setting intellectualism aside for a moment. I read the Twins are one of the teams considering Kris Benson. To me, I just don’t see the point, even without Johan. We have five young arms that will be much more cost-effective and more than likely comparative. I’m doubting they will sign him, but for them to even show interest is mind-boggling.
Came upon this article on the “All-Overpaid Team” for current players it seems. Pretty solid list.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/23/the-all-overpaid-team/
to complain about overpriced contracts and cheap owners is not inconsistent.
If I had my way, there would be a salary cap where if salaries did become bloated, they would become bloated equally from team to team and one bloated contract might mean some smaller contracts for others.
That would be my preference.
But it is not the way it is now, and since it isnt, and since baseball is dysfunctional economically, it requires an owner who is willing to play in that dysfunctional environment. Carl isnt, and maybe thats wise on his part. But until his buddy Selig fixes the game, it requires an owner who is willing to spend more than he is.
Bingo
60 Minutes to Interview Roger Clemens
Associated Press
steroids use alleged against him in the Mitchell Report and plans to be interviewed for a future episode of “60 Minutes.”
The seven-time Cy Young Award winner was accused in the report of using steroids, an allegation made by his former trainer.
In October last year, the Los Angeles Times reported Clemens was linked to steroids in the May 2006 sworn statement of a federal agent who cited former big league pitcher Jason Grimsley. At the time, the names of players in the public version had been blacked out. When the full affidavit was unsealed Thursday, Clemens’ name was not in it, and the paper issued a correction and an apology.
“I faced this last year when the L.A. Times reported that I used steroids. I said it was not true then, and now the whole world knows it’s not true, now that that’s come out,” Clemens said in the video, which was posted Sunday on the Web site of his foundation and on You Tube.
George Mitchell, a director of the Boston Red Sox and a former Senate majority leader, wrote in his report that former Toronto and New York Yankees strength coach Brian McNamee said he injected Clemens with steroids in 1998 while with the Blue Jays, and in 2000 and 2001 while with the Yankees. McNamee also claimed he injected Clemens with Human Growth Hormone in 2000.
“Let me be clear, the answer is no. I did not use steroids, or human growth hormone and I’ve never done so,” Clemens said. “I did not provide Brian McNamee with any drugs to inject in to my body. Brian McNamee did not inject steroids or Human Growth Hormones into my body either when I played in Toronto for the Blue Jays or the New York Yankees. This report is simply not true.”
Baseball players and owners did not jointly ban steroids until September 2002. They did not ban HGH until January 2005.
While Clemens has released a written and video statement since Mitchell issued his report on Dec. 13, he has not answered questions.
“After Christmas, I’m going to sit down with Mike Wallace of `60 Minutes,’ and I’ll do an interview, and he’ll ask me a ton of questions on this subject, and I’ll answer them right there in front of him, and we’ll do all of this again,” Clemens said.
CBS spokesman Kevin Tedesco said the interview is scheduled to air Jan. 6.
“I’m angry about it,” Clemens said of the allegations. “To be honest with you, it’s hurtful to me and my family, but we’re coming upon Christmas now, and I have been blessed in my life. I’ve been blessed in my career, and I’m very thankful for those blessings.”
Mitchell said McNamee, a former personal trainer to Clemens and Yankees and Houston Astros teammate Andy Pettitte, told him Pettitte had used HGH two-to-four times in 2002. Pettitte issued a statement Dec. 15 saying he used HGH twice in 2002.
___
Sane, You do know that Boras and Theo have a very good relationship when it comes to negotiating with one another, right? I see them telling Ellsbury to hook up with Boras because Pohlad won’t want to deal with him because Pohlad is too tight with his $ were as Sox ownership have no probs spending money to keep their players.
vikings suck.
Scott, Sane… Another reason why the MLB is so flawed. Agents and owners of big-market teams collaborating. The four big markets need a name??? Anyone???
Solid effort by the Vikes tonight. What a penile-tease they threw at us for the past few weeks. Now what?
FYI
Latest Johan Santana Rumors
The Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo has the latest on the lingering Johan Santana saga.
The Red Sox are standing pat with their offer of Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Justin Masterson, and Jed Lowrie. I’ve said it before - I consider this an excellent offer, though I might try to find a permutation that involves Jacoby Ellsbury and another player rather than Crisp/Lester. The Twins seem to like this offer too; they just want to see if the Yankees crack and offer up Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, and Phil Hughes.
The Theo Epstein regime typically hasn’t been jazzed about contracts exceeding four years. However they will break that rule for a Santana extension and are prepared to go seven if they have to.
Cafardo dismisses the idea that Josh Beckett would be upset by Santana earning twice his salary. Beckett will get his payday after the 2010 season, unless he flames out or the Red Sox extend him earlier.
Scott,
What do the Red Sox gain if the Twins can’t or won’t negotiate with Ellsbury?
He is not close to free agency.
If the Sox want to keep him, they just keep him and the Twins aren’t even in the picture.
If the Sox trade him in a Santana deal,
what do the Sox care how Ellsbury’s salary negotiations with the Twins go?
You said:
1) The Sox decided that Ellsbury will NOT be traded to the Twins.
2) The Sox hooked him up with Boras so
that if he is (ACCIDENTALLY?) traded to the Twins, the Twins will not be able to negotiate with him. (although there is no way the Sox could benefit from that situation)
I can’t see the logic in that thinking.
Scott-
Cut the conspiracy theories
Ellsbury. Is he a sure thing? He performed well in the post-season, a good sign. However, how can a strong argument be made about his merits with such a small sample size?
Bowdrie, Masterson, and whatever other Hobbit the BoSox throw our way. Great. Lots of unproven “Can’t miss” prospects. I am a long-time Twins fan and have seen lots of “Can’t miss prospects” come and go. Do any of you remember Willie Banks?? Good Lord, he was supposed to be the second coming of JC himself, and how did that turn out? Even Adam Johnson, Pat Mahomes, and the list goes on…How much hope and anticipation can a person feel for these hyped up players?? I guess that is part of the beauty of the game. I just find it hard to get too fired up and into all of these trade talk topics when all of these players are, oh so unproven. I am following it like a hawk, don’t get me wrong, but it just pains me to trade the best pitcher in baseball for so many unprovens. Please pardon my grammatical erros, I have had a few High Lifes.
Appears that the current SOX offers are the best the Twins are going get.
if the current offers are the best the Twins can do, the answer is simple.
SIGN HIM!
Agree Kloob. Vikes choked when they needed the win the most. Poor play calling, poor QBing.
In the spirit of the blog, let’s blame it all on Pohlad. I have no idea how it would work, but it’ll get a cheap pop from the audience.
Don’t sign him!
We get back Lowrie, Masterson, Ellsbury (or Lester/Crisp) plus we keep $200 million in the next 7 years that we can use to obtain additional players or to extend Morneau, Young ,Mauer or whoever we need to keep.
Kloob,
The Yanks also traded the Twins almost can’t-misses in Eric Milton and Guzman for Chickie K. It was a good trade for noth teams and the Twins got some mileage out of those guys - but they got hurt and never lived up to all the press. And the same goes for Hughes, Cabrera and other Yankees prospects. You never know. The only guarantee is Santana is a guarantee. It’s shooting dice.
If you do sign him, you will be unable to sign or extend anyone else that can help.
You can call the team Santana and the Seven Dwarfs.
It does appear so. I’m tempted to aim for the “let him walk” attitude. I guess 2 1st rounders are better than nothing. Maybe we’ll get a few 12+ strikeout efforts of out Johan in the last gasp of fun. So, if we know he is going to walk after the year, do we still instill a pitch count?
Roundabout,
For Chuckie,
the Twins also received Silva and Punto (for Milton) and Bartlett (for Buchanon).
Then Bartlett helped us get Delmon Young.
Thanks Chuckie.
Don’t sign him.
Don’t “let him walk”.
Take the best offer and trade him.
The current Sox offers are far better than two crappy draft choices.
(Think Adam Johnson and Ryan Mills) or (Matt Moses and Denard Span)
Eric Milton paid off well. He was a gem. The no-hitter was fun to watch. The 7+ ERA since, not so good. Guzman, he was a fast 45 year old, that is for sure.
The point is we are trading the best SP in baseball for a bunch of maybes (and that is being nice). I just have had a hard time getting all fired up for all of those maybes. I would like to land Hughes, even though he tilts his hat in an way-too-young fashion, but other than that, I just am not into the trade talks as much as I try.
We plucked Johan through Rule 5, because one of our non-English speaking scouts thought he had good movement on his off-speed pitches. He wasn’t very good for the first year, but we kept him on the roster because our evaluators knew what they had. By the way, we have the best evaluators in baseball. So they let him work out his kinks. He starts to post some good numbers in AA and AAA, comes to the Majors and dominates a few MLB hitters. What does he do? Anything a young cocky SP with unhittable stuff would do, bitches about Kenny Rogers getting his spot. I was Ped’Off too. It was ridiculous. However, Johan should have recognized, the evalutors and coaches were getting him ready. They knew what they had. Something special. So they continuted to baby his arm threw the minors, and then into the Majors, Cy Youngs and all.. Think about that. And now what do we have?? A prima donna SP who knows he can milk the market for all he can get. It’s a market system, why wouldn’t he??? I won’t blame him for that. However, he is in a tough spot. Being a law student, I know the value of a contract and the possiblities of a contract running up on not so certain terms. I also know the value of ethics and morality. I just think you let the prima donna know the pitch count is off if he is determined to know. Screw Steinbrenner, and anyone that has screwed up baseball by being cuttrhroat. We can play that game too… Just sayin’ Sorry for blowing a fuse. My wife is pissed again for me typing too loud. At least the kids don’t wake from my anger of the system. Keep a man down and it all comes out eventually.
Wow. Sorry for the typos, I had to deal with the mother-in-law all day and the beers caught up with me.
He will be a Red Sox by January 10th at the latest.
I recently read that the Orioles GM is done listening to trade offers for Erick Bedard. Does that bring any benefits to the Twins?
Although at first it seemed a long shot for Santana to land in Seatle, but since Seatle was high on Bedard and he is out of negotiations for now, and Santana old chum Silva going to Seatle maybe Santana could head to Seatle. Seatle I believe could still have the best package 1. Jones 2. Clement 3. Marrow.
Jones is a excellent all around centerfielder (probably better than Ellsbury) Marrow is an excellent reliever(way better than Masterson) and Clement is a powerful hitting catcher. Clement will not be a MLB Catcher due to bad defense but is projected to be a powerful DH capable of hitting anywhere from 25-40 out of the ball park
I think it is vital for the Twins still not to jump on the Red Sox offer yet and talk to the Mariners. Plus I think we may still have a little leverge because I think Theo will be a little antsy trying to get Santana in hopes of a dynasty and hopefully he can umpt rhe anty.
Kloob,
Nathan, Liriano and Bonser were “maybe’s” when we traded AJ.
From Boston Globe and mlb trade rumors today:
The Red Sox are standing pat with their offer of Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Justin Masterson, and Jed Lowrie. I’ve said it before - I consider this an excellent offer, though I might try to find a permutation that involves Jacoby Ellsbury and another player rather than Crisp/Lester. The Twins seem to like this offer too; they just want to see if the Yankees crack and offer up Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, and Phil Hughes.
The Theo Epstein regime typically hasn’t been jazzed about contracts exceeding four years. However they will break that rule for a Santana extension and are prepared to go seven if they have to.
Cafardo dismisses the idea that Josh Beckett would be upset by Santana earning twice his salary. Beckett will get his payday after the 2010 season, unless he flames out or the Red Sox extend him earlier.
Random question: is there any chance the Red Sox exercise Manny Ramirez’s $20MM option for 2009?
Here’s the skinny on a possible deal for Johan Santana. The Red Sox would break from their philosophy of not giving out long-term deals for Santana. They’d prefer fewer than the seven years agent Peter Greenberg is seeking but will go there for one of the top two or three pitchers. Since the winter meetings, nothing has changed with Boston’s offer, but after the New Year things are expected to get down to the nitty-gritty, when Minnesota will expect the Yankees and Red Sox to give their final “best offer.” The Sox are still offering Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Justin Masterson, and Jed Lowrie. If the Yankees don’t include Ian Kennedy, the Red Sox will land him. As to the growing theory that Josh Beckett would be bent out of shape over Santana earning twice as much, forget it. Beckett signed the contract and knew what he was doing.
Pitch counts count
One thing that makes the Santana deal attractive to the Red Sox is the great care the Twins have taken with the ace since he entered the big leagues in 2000. In 251 games and 175 starts, only once did he reach the 120-pitch mark. That came in a 7-1 loss to the White Sox April 21, 2006, at Chicago, where he went seven innings.
Sane, I am well aware, that worked out to be the best trade since the Natives taught us treacherous jerks to grow corn. However, no matter how well that trade worked out, AJ was not The Best Pitcher in Baseball. I’d go so far as to pretty much ensure the value we got for AJ we will not get for Johan. Especially since we let the whole world know we are desparate to trade him.
AJ was not going to cost his team (Twins or Giants) $150-$200 million.
That is why Santana’s trade value is skewed downward.
AJ was not going to cost much of anything. I understand Johan’s deal running out diminishes his trade value, but in a true free trade system of the contract rules all, shouldn’t we have some sway to diminish that problem by having the Big-Markets vie for him? He’s going to go to one of them anyway, why not give them the first and exclusive chance to work out a deal? I think that is worth some talent, and a lot of it. I’m sick and tired of people saying the contract deal is an issue. The guy is gone to one of them anyways, why not get a ton out of giving free-Johan bargaining rights. That is what is wrong with baseball, right???
Kloob,
I may not fully understand your contract
law references but I think we are giving (whichever team offers the best deal) exclusive negotiating rights for 72 hours to work out a deal for Santana prior to finalizing the trade.
I apologize if I misunderstood your suggestion.
No suggestion, a contract is a contract. You full-well know whoever gets him will fulfill that 72-hour negotiation window. That is not even an issue. The second-coming of Sandy Koufax only comes along only 30-some years. **Disclaimer: I am a Twins homer, so feel free to rip on me for the Koufax analogy.
No rip coming.
Blogs are meant to solicit opinions.
Vary the pool of Santana suitors to include others.
Insist on excellence in trades for such a pitcher.
Keep Santana if nothing is offered that is worthy.
Increase trade value by tossing in another.
Never trust anyone saying “it’s the best deal.”
Go with your gut when in doubt.
Survey changes in availability and adjust.
Success could hinge on becoming your own suitor.
Underwrite guaranteed wins with a shift in payroll.
Can it be done? Of course.
Kirby was one example of a good salary exception.
roundabout, if you take injuries into consideration…even Santana isn’t a guarantee.
T,
Injuries don’t discriminate; players can get hurt anytime (see Phil Hughes pitching a no-hitter). Teams have to work on the positive and respond to the negative. You can’t factor injuries into the equation, though you can consider a player’s history.
Johan Santana has been relatively healthy. He hasn’t had any longterm injuries, that I know of. That could mean he’s due or he’s fortunate. I would be concerned about giving ANY pitcher a 7-year contract.
In the spirit of the season, barring injury Santana is the performance guarantee in any deal (though there is relative guarantees with some of the prospects).
I see that Sao Tagachi just signed with the Phillies so that leaves
Lofton
Patterson
Cameron
or a trade for CF’r
And that still leaves
Ellsbury
Kemp
Pie
Crisp
Cabrera
Gomez
in that order for both for me.
roundabout-
What would you say if the Twins offered:
Craig Monroe, Kevin Slowey, Matt Macri, and Julio DePaula for Josh Beckett???
Fair?
Hawk,
Trades, for the most part, many times depend on needs. If I am Boston, I don’t trade Josh Beckett - unless I decided I need Vladimir Guerrera cause I am losing Manny Ramirez.
Just like I don’t trade Johan Santana, unless I am forced too (like the Twins are) or I need a monster hitter, like Albert Pujols (or Vlad or Manny or A-Rod).
It all depends. You lose trading a great pitcher, but you gain elsewhere getting a great hitter. Needs!!!
In your deal, if I am Boston, why would I want Craig Monroe. There are numerous players like Monroe out there and in the farm system. Macri is a nice player, but if I am Boston I am solid at third-base with Lowe for the next three years, at least, and Youklis possibly after that. By that time, Boston can develop its own third-sacker.
From what I’ve read and heard, Slowey is an excellent control pitcher with a fastball hitting 90-91. He has to hit his spots. He did well in his call-up last year (So did Ian Kennedy, who seems similar in style)
He’s not Josh Beckett - a top 10 pitcher.
I am not familiar with DePaula, sorry
If I am Boston, I say Thanks but No Thanks.
Well…if I am Minnesota, why would I want a journeyman CF in Crisp? Denard Span can do what Crisp can so… Also, why would I want to roll the dice on a young pitching prospect who had cancer? Lowrie is nice but he doesn’t have Everett’s glove and has never sniffed the bigs. DePaula, Masterson, DePaula, Masterson, what’s the difference. You wouldn’t trade Beckett for those four players. Why in the world would anyone think Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, Masterson is an “excellent offer” for Santana???
The Mariners have the best componetes if they decide to get santana. Those three in seatle are the best options if they are dealt. Do it Seattle it is a good trade both ways.
Although I am not big on Coco Crispies lets not get carried away. Coco is much better than Span. Span, correct me if i am wrong, but hasn’t he only batted like .230 in Triple A? Coco, prior to boston, at least had seasons where he batted .280. Just felt compelled to put things into perspective.
roundabout-
Sorry…..the earlier comment about the “excellent offer” was from the Boston Globe and not you…correct?
Hawk,
Thanks 
I am not a Coco fan (though I love his name) He had a great second half three seasons ago and Bill James fell in love with his mumbo-jumbo “stats/potential.”
For the record, I would like the Twins to sign Santana for the good of baseball. I am old school: teams should keep their own players ( I am constantly disappointed)
If I am the Twins, I think I get the best bang for Santana from the Angels: Kendricks, Wood, E Santana, J Weaver, Figgins, and a few others. All young and proven talents.
If I traded with Boston, I would hold out for Buchholz and Ellsbury as the centerpieces for Santana.
If the Yanks are the team, nothing less than Hughes, Kennedy or Joba (pick 2), Cano and Cabrera or another prospect. (Yes I consider Melky a prospect with some experience) If I am the Yanks I aint doing that. Santana is too rich for my blood. I roll with the three kids and never give up Cano (unless it’s one or two for one)
Hawk,
Yes it was the Boston Globe reporter (and several people on this blog agree, it seems)
I agree….West coast teams have more to offer than Boston and NY who want to pick up a HOF’er dirt cheap. Angels have some nice talent as well LAD and Seattle. Although now that Seattle spent $48mil on Silva, I don’t see them getting into the Santana sweepstakes.
I too think Seattle has made its play with Silva (overspent I think). We shall see.I think the Yanks-Red Sox are kind of playing defense and bidding against one another. I think neither teams wants to commit to 7 years for a pitcher, even it’s Johan Santana. Seven years is asking for trouble.
If the Twins traded Santana to say LA Dodgers, there would be loads of smiles in Fenway and Yankee lands
Compare Span to Crisp?
Compare DePaula to Masterson?
Compare Macri to Lowrie?
Compare Monroe to Lester?
If you pick any from List A, get in line for Twins Kool-Aid.
We might have to wait until Spring Training starts. Some team’s starter(s) will get injured and suddenly thinking Santana is the next best thing since sliced bread. Smith is being smart by waiting because experience has shown injuries happen once the boys start playing. It’s just who and when.
tyler-I agree that the M’s package offers the most doable for both sides.Johan and King Feliz back to back in a playoff series would be hard to beat.Jones in my opinion has more upside than Ellsbury.They must be serious about a deep playoff run to have overpaid so much for Johan’s buddy Silva.Their interest might get the two LA teams back in mix The evil two(yanks and bosox) offers so far have been insulting.The M’s have enough other interesting prospects to maybe even include Nathan in the trade
I think Vavra is doing a decent job as hitting coach.That being said,i wish Molitor would become hitting coach.He would help Young,Cutty, Justin and Maurer alot.The Twins are not only bad at situational hitting but at situational guessing They have to learn better how a pitcher is trying to get them out.How times have we seen them flail away at a slider low and away.only to take a called third right down the pipe because they were expecting another pitch.Molly would help in this regard.
FYI
NL teams have little to offer Twins for Santana
The absence of a serious NL option remains one of the ongoing mysteries in Minnesota’s deliberate efforts to trade Johan Santana the Chicago Tribune reported.
The Twins surely would rather deal him to the New York Mets or Los Angeles Dodgers than to the Boston Red Sox or New York Yankees-for that matter, anybody but the Red Sox or Yankees-but haven’t been presented with a compelling offer.
This seems like an indictment of both the financial competitiveness and the thin farm systems of NL teams, especially given the impact Santana could have in a league with lesser hitters. Seven of the top 10 payrolls, including four of the top five, were in the AL a year ago, and this off-season’s player movement doesn’t appear to have brought the NL any closer in terms of overall talent.
Source: Chicago Tribune
Bubba, another reason the Twins should sign Johan.
We will not get proper value for him. Sign him. 25 mill will seem cheap in three years.
The idea of trading a future hall of famer is just a ridiculous notion, that fact that it is even being discussed is nuts.
Since free agency, the player who plays his entire career with one team is almost extinct.
So he is either traded for another player(or players)or leaves his team as a free agent(and his team gets squat in return).
That goes for a future hall of famer as well as a normal player.
Kevin,
Twins ownership is not committed to winning and thus will not sign Johan.
Bubba,
To make that claim is utter BS. If they weren’t committed to winning, they would have traded Johan a month ago for Lester, Masterson, and Crisp.
T,
According to Tori Hunter, the ownership stated year after year that they were to put “a competitive team on the field”
This was earlier in the month on sports radio where Hunter did have nice things to say about the Minn. fans
Some of you guys are pathetic..
Twins have two teams right now that have both the prospects and the money…
Bill failed to pull the trigger when he had the closest thing to an ACE .. YES, P. Hughes . if you think Lester compares to hughes your are gravely mistaking. Bucholtz yes, Lester no.
Yankees are out.. sure there is a chance they change their mind but don’t count on it!
THat leaves Crisp .. LOL, boston is getting rid of him anyhow, they are not trading Ellsbury.
So you get a guy who Boston needs to trade (Crisp) Who is all defense.. and him and his shenanigans at the plate annoy me personally.
A guy who is *iffy* who the say just beat cancer (Lester) … Lowrie a totally nothing special prospect and one good prospect . Masterson..
Sounds to me like your about to get fleeced.. and why?
Blame your GM and Owner. If you got for the Crisp/Lester deal you will be the laughing stock of all baseball. Better to keep Santana one more year and go for it…
Fleas,
I wish you knew what you were talking about. although i would still wait for the M’s to make an offer, the Red Sox offer is not all bad. Coco is not just defense, he had good numbers in Cleveland, Lester is not as good as Phil Hughes, i agree, but he will be a good #2,#3 guy in the future. Scouts rank Lowrie a A- prospect(same as Ellsbury) and Masterson (as you mentioned) is good. So how is that a terrible offer? The correct answer is Its not… but i still think we can get better.
If i was the twins though i continue to hold out for a deal with Ellsbury, Lester, Masterson from the Red Sox, or the yankees to give way and add Kennedy, or as i previously mentioned, i would be estatic if we get Jones, Marrow, and Clement from Seattle. Keep waiting Smith
Fleas,
The only thing that is PATHETIC is a Yankee fan desperately trying to convince the Twins not to trade Santana to the Red Sox.
Is your evaluation of the Red Sox trade package intentionally misleading or are you are actually that clueless?
I actually would rather have the Twins trade him to the National League.
After reading that nonsense,however, maybe the Twins should take the Sox offer and enjoy helping them continue to bitch-slap the Yankees for seven more years.
Seattle bowwed out of the deal when they went after Silva. Seattle doesn’t have the money to commit 7 years and 150-170 million on a pitcher any more than the Twins do, and while I agree the Seattle prospects are quite good, Santana would have to want to go there, and I just don’t see that. Seattle is nowhere near as good as the Angels, and aren’t run as well as the A’s… so they are a perenial 3rd place team. Add Santana, and they become the clear cut 2nd place team.
Also to whomever was talking about Denard Span and Coco Crisp… WAKE UP. Coco is a Major League CF… a middle of the road MLB CF. Denard Span is a plunger project… I simply can’t spell the word out… but let’s say he’s number 2 with a bullet… just flush and flush and flush…
And attacking Lester for having Cancer is like making fun of george bush for being functionally retarded… it’s just not nice. Lester can’t help that he had cancer any more than george could help that his mom and dad were probably cousins.
But seriously, Lester is a Major League calibur pitcher, and Masterson is our next Guerrier. Lowrie will be a MLB infielder… a mediocre defensive player with an amazing bat.
At the very worst he will be Todd Walker, at the very best he could be a Nomar Garciaparra type ball player.
And Ellsbury was an A- player because of his lack of power ONLY. I’ve read every freaking report on him this side of his grade school report cards.
Ellsbury will be the best leadoff hitter in the American League before the end of 2008… I’m almost willing to bet on it, and I hate gambling.
…………..
I still want to see the DODGERS get in on this because raiding that minor league system would be like getting into the Vatican vaults… and that would be a beautiful thing!!!
Kershaw could be better than Hughes or Buckholtz. LaRoche is the 3rd best 3rd base prospect ready for the Majors behind Wood (2nd), and Longoria (1st). Kemp isn’t a great leadoff hitter but is a great CF prospect with a poor attitude. Eithier could be a stud, but is more of a corner OF than a CF’r. Tony Abreu is a great hitting solid fielder middle infielder, Billingsly is a great 2nd-3rd starter candidate. and the list goes on and on and on and on… There isn’t another minor league system close.
Hmm..
I’ll say it again, “It’s looking more and more like the Twins (Bill) overplayed his hand).
Which is what we want, let them keep Santana another year. If they try and trade him by July… hopefully, Johan denies it and goes FA. Doubt it!
Just maybe a deal nobody has seen coming will be in the works after the holidays.
If what Ortiz says is true…. although Ortiz did say that Pedro would never go to the Mets.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/12/25/2007-12-25_david_ortiz_johan_santana_wont_land_in_b-2.html
Tyler:
Crisp was horrible last year. I am taking Cabrera’s 16 assists over Crisps 6 or 7. Cabrera has just as many putouts. They both are switch hitters, and the only thing going for crisp is his speed vs cabrera.
However Cabrera is 5 years younger. There both get your uniform dirty players. But I am going with Cabrera.
Plus IMHO, anyone who’s numbers drop as bad as crisps from on year to the next really scare me as far as the possibility of PEDS. *not accusing just saying.
Okay, so I sold Lowrie short on his hitting, Yes he can hit granted, but how many guys who can hit in the minors come up and don’t produce nearly the same in the MLB? Anyone have that stat?
SANE:
So I was misleading about Lowrie (above ^). Let’s say we take both Crisp and Cabrera out of the deal (Frankly, they are to similar to even care).
If the package was:
SOX: Lester, Masterson, Lowrie
vs
YANKS: Hughes,Horne, Jackson or tabata
your telling me the Sox deal is superior?
BC Beneke:
Uhm.. uhm, you said, “attacking Lester for having Cancer” and I said, “who they say just beat cancer (Lester)”… Are you sure I was attacking him or just stating a fact. I can give you an example of an attack if you prefer, but so you know.. I admire him and feel for him in regards to his health issues, but stating that he had beaten cancer, no way insults the man, but would concern me as a trade.
What you guys are pondering in regards to Hughes.. was last year coming back after a Hammy issue and then coincidently while working out his Hammy months later, he stepped wrong on his foot (ever do that? When you step weird and your foot turns up on it’s side like a hinge facing the wrong way) .. so he was out for months. When he came back his velocity was down considerably and he was rouging it a bit.
Before he went down with injury, did you not see him dominate a not hitter thru 6 1/2 in Texas? His stuff was not just good.. it was amazing!
He started looking more like himself towards the end of the year and it showed the last month with his what 2.48 (was it) era.. Have you heard Phil talk? His compure? He is very mature and has what it takes to be an ace unquestionably..
Anyhow, gotta go clean up from xmas…
(Even if we differ in opinion here, please still play nice)
Happy holidays all.
Crisp,Lester,Lowrie,Masterson
or
Kennedy,Tabata,Horne,Cabrera or Jackson
Bubba,
According to Torii Hunter, he has always wanted to play for Anahiem. Even if the didn’t even consider them as a candidate to sign with until they threw $90 million at his feet.
Also, according to Torii Hunter, he wanted to play for a contender. So much so that he fielded offers from Texas and Kansas City.
Fleas,
I like in the following order:
(1) Hughes, Kennedy, Horne, Jackson
(2) Ellsbury, Lester, Lowrie, Masterson
(3) Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson,Bowden
(4) Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, Masterson
(5) Kennedy, Tabata, Horne, Jackson
The problem is that (to my knowledge)neither (1),(2)or (5) have been offered.
By the way, you are making a lot more sense on Christmas Day than you were on Christmas Eve. Congratulations on your recovery.
Fleas,
I left out:
Hughes, Tabata, Horne, Jackson.
That would be very close to #3 on my previous list, comparable to:
Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson, Bowden.
Trade Morneau for desperately needed pitching.
Sane-To your knowledge these different deal have not been offered.What your source for that?Have you been talking to different GM’s involved?Most of speculation has been fueled by the east coast media and ESPN who we know has a east coast bias.Let’s let the process play it’s self out and have some fun with this.
Off all subjects here but does anyone have any suggestions for parking? I got a 20 game ticket package for x-mas today and and want to avoid paying $10-$15 for parking every game.
Sane, I guess I am biased a bit. I absolutely can’t stand Crisp. His offensive numbers don’t do anything for me either. His defense.. that’s his entire worth.
Something about him and Lugo that irk me. Especially Crisp with his finger spasms holding the bat, his neck twitching.. and having to ensign the cross multiple time per bat. I feel if he stopped the show then just maybe he would be a better player.
About your order:
1. by far the best (I don’t see it happening)
in fact I have a feeling that Hughes is no longer in the deal.
2. and 3. are very favorable for the Twins. I too agree that I want Ellsbury over Lester. (I have a feeling that 2 or 3 won’t happen either — not that they are unreasonable).
So if that leaves us with 4. or 5. I am going 5 since I can’t stand Crisp. However, if that is what it comes down to, I’m thinking the Twins let Johan FA if they aren’t going to Sign him or at least hold out until the trade deadline.
Merry Xmas
Give me Clement, Marrow, and Jones or give me death. Come on Mariners i know you still have money left.
Mike, take the light rail.
T screw yourself
GENO,
I said that “to my knowledge” certain deals have not been offered. That only means that I’ve had no source tell me those deals HAVE been offered. So, I guess my answer to your question is “I have no source”.
fleas,
I would take any of those deals rather than let Santana become a FA and settle for two crappy draft choices.(odds are one or both of the draft choices is a bust).
Even the Crisp-Lester trade (#4) has two major leaguers plus the Sox’ #3 and #4 (Masterson and Lowrie) prospects who are each more likely to reach MLB than either draft choice.
T I agree wtih you again.
Torii kind of reminds me of when Clemens said that he was only going to a team that had a chance to win it all, and then signed to the Blue Jays… When asked he said, where-ever I go we have a chance to win the whole thing. I was the missing piece of the puzzle here.
That kind of sounds like what Hunter might have said had he accepted a paycheck from the freaking Royals.
It’s all about the money. Carl didn’t pony up, and the Angels over paid him. Thank you for amazing defense, and for being a pretty classy guy the whole time you were here, and I personally think punching Punto was a beautiful thing. God knows everytime I saw him swing last year I wanted to punch his father for having him!
Here is to trading Johan, Nathan, Rincon, and maybe even Cuddyer in an attempt to bolster this team up for the future.
Cuddyer and Blackburn to the Cardinals for Colby Rasmus and Allan Craig
Santana, Span, and Rincon to the Red Sox for Lester, Ellsbury, Lowrie, and Masterson
Nathan to the Cubs for Pie and Gallagher
Between those 3 moves, and trading for Young we should have all of our outfielders for the next 5-7 years… all being able interchange at all 3 outfield spots.
Lester, and Gallagher are rotation ready, and Masterson could come in and be a long reliever and replace Blackburn and could end up being the next Guerrier.
By 2010 we could have a line up of.
CF Ellsbury .300/.400 30 steals
LF Rasmus .290/ 350 20 homers
SS Lowrie .330/ 400 40 dbls,20 homers
1b Morneau .290 30 dbls, 40 hrs
DH Young .300 30 dbls, 20 hrs
CA Mauer .300/.400 25 dbls 5 hrs
RF Pie .275 30 dbls, 20 hrs
3b Merci/Craig .275 20dbls, 10 hrs
2b Casilla .265 20/10/5 20 steals
Liriano 16-10
Sosa 15-7 (ROY)
Lester 14-13
Gallahger 12-10
Slowey 13-8
Neshak, Guerrier, Pina, and Bonser in the bullpen for sure…
The team could be sitting like the Cleveland Indians right before they went into their new stadium!!!
The Twins should trade Morneau for the pitching they desperately need.
#1, the Twins don’t desperately need pitching, and #2, Morneau is the best offensive player they have, and he’s cheap as hell right now. I sincerely hope you were joking.
Not sure you guys know this about Crisp but he did play with a broken finger all 2006… Just saying.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see a deal the 27th or 28th. At a certain point the waiting works against the Twins.
Somebody pulls their deal off the table or makes another trade.
Merry Christmas to all!
Think this bill dampened the Christmas mood among Yankee brass? ha
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/25/luxury-doesnt-pay-for-the-yankees/
pedroolivia
I doubt there will be any activity until after the New Year as the MLB offices are closed until then. It would be nice though.
Jacoby Ellsbury performed clutch in the World Series. That’s all we know. Good sign? Yes. However, I seem to remember another rookie coming up big in the WS, by the name of Steve Lombardozzi. Oh, how well that worked out. The point is, you can never be sure of a maybe on such a small sample size. For the love of God Hot Carl, sign Johan.
Twins should trade Morneau for desperately needed pitching.
yeaah andd mauer cuddy and baker oh yeah and young too dumb ass
Craig is wont to intentionally make stupid statements in the hope that we’ll get worked up.
Nice try Craig.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com is reporting Twins may settle for Phillip Hughes,Melky Cabrera, and Jeff Marquez for Santana.
However, the site IS called “RUMORS”
It’s a pretty good site though. I thought NY had pulled Hughes off the table.
I apologize for even responding to Craig. I know it’s what he wants. I was caught in a moment of weakness.
I think I recall that the rumor (back at the beginning of the month) was that the Twins had backed off asking for Kennedy and was okay with Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez & Hilligoss from the Yanks. And the Yanks jumped ship. Not that I believe every rumor, but it fit in with Hank’s saving face statement that the Twins were really negotiating in good faith (not that anyone picked up that quote).
I think that the Yankees trade offer is a good offer if we get a four player package of Hughes, Cabrera, Velques, and one of the the following: Jackson, Horn, Tobata. That offer is better than the red sox offer of Crisp, Lester, Lowrie, Masterson.
Hughes much better than Lester
Cabrera=Crisp
Lowrie=Tabata, Jackson, or Horne
Velques better than Masterson
Although the yankees offer is good, it still is not as good as the possibility of a Jones, Marrow, Clement trade from the M’s. (The M’s may not have enough money though, but who knows they are still going after a somewhat expensive pitcher in Bedard so i say get the real deal in santana).
My bad i thought Horne was a outfielder but he is actually a RHP. So i will revise what offer i think could work with the yankees and twins without having it be kennedy and hughes and still be better than that off the Red Sox offer.
1)Hughes
2)Jackson
3)Cabrera
4)Mid level prospect possoble Marquez,(my bad not Velques). or if the Twins can get Horne that would be awesome
Pro Scout John Sickels gives Jackson a B+ rating, Horne a B, and Marquez a C+.
Whereas for the Red Sox he gives Ellsbury a A-, Lowrie a B+/A-, and gives Masterson a B.
So a Hughes, Cabrera, Jackson, Horne would be fair, right?
Why would the Twins want Cabrera? Is not a true CF….strong arm but no range. Yanks would play him in RF but it’s already occupied.
Twins desperately need pitching, so trade Morneau.
Tyler,
If you believe Sickels at all, how do you summarize:
(1)Lowrie(A-/B+) = Tabata (B+),Horne (B),or Jackson (B-)?
Lowrie’s grade is better than any one of the three.
Marquez (C+) is much better than Masterson (B)?
tyler, where did you find the article from Sickels where he rates the prospects of each team. I remember reading it but I can’t remember where. I appreciate your help.
MLB trade rumors cites a Murray Chass article in The NY Times. Chass doesn’t cite sources, but I am not seeing that your guy here is reporting this potential change of heart, if it is so, by the Twins. If it is so, it show the Twins really really want Phil Hughes and, it seems, Melky Cabrera, over Lester or the quality offered by teh Red Sox. I prefer the Yanks stand pat, but would embrace Johan Santana.
here’s part of what Chass wrote:
The Twins’ trade talks seem to be in a timeout. The Yankees and the Red Sox apparently are the teams most serious about Santana, but their interest isn’t necessarily sincere.
The feeling among baseball people is the Red Sox, with a solid starting rotation already in place, don’t need Santana, would be reluctant to pay the price he would demand — $20 million or more a year for five years or more — and remain in the bidding only because the Yankees are in it.
The Yankees’ go-slow approach stems from their ambivalence over whether they want to keep Phil Hughes and a younger pitching prospect, Jeffrey Marquez, or have Santana pitch at the head of their rotation.
At one point, the Twins were said to be holding out for Hughes and Ian Kennedy, another of the Yankees’ attractive triumvirate of major league-ready young pitchers (the untouchable Joba Chamberlain being the third), but the Yankees wouldn’t give up both, so the Twins asked instead for Marquez, a 23-year-old right-hander.
Last season, his fourth in the minors, Marquez had a 15-9 record and 3.65 earned run average for Class AA Trenton.
General Manager Brian Cashman wants to hold on to the young pitchers. No one with authority is pushing for Santana, but Hank Steinbrenner may be heading in that direction.
If the Yankees trade for Santana, they will sign him to a multiyear contract that will affect both their payroll and their luxury tax. If they were to add a five-year extension for $20 million a year to his $13.25 million salary for next season, the contract would cost the Yankees about $7.57 million in luxury taxes each year, with the tax being constant because it would be applied from the start based on the total $113.25 million figure.
Hawk,
2007 Range Factor amongst all MLB CF…
#1 Crisp
#2 Granderson
#3 Cabrera
Cabrera and Granderson are the only 2 CF in the top five in Assists, Zone rating & Range factor.
He was a CF in the minors & moved to RF last year because of Damon. Moving back to CF in May after not playing the position for over a year, he was having trouble with his routes. However, after the allstar break he was great in CF.
The 22 year old CF was also hitting .295-305 with the 6th highest OPS (.790-.810) of all CF at the end of August before hitting a complete wall in September, which killed his overall numbers.
He wont be a star but he will be a good player and is proven on the major league level.
Cabrera came up and played some center (remember he turned a Trot Nixon single into an inside the park homerun) and played 116 games in left field during 2006 ( Abreu played right field)
Melky can get better.He’s played two years in the majors. He’s a prospect with some proven talents.
roundabout,
The luxury tax problem would only be a 1 year 7M hit. They have 80M in contracts expiring after 08 and they could drop 54M of that right now (Giambi, Farnsworth, Hawkins, Mussina & Pavano) without taking much of a performance hit.
The luxury tax number also goes up to 172M next year, so I fully expect the Yankees to be under that figure because that has been a goal of Cashman’s. He never liked the idea of having a bloated payroll and getting no credit as a GM because of it.
So those of you that have paid any attention to my posts these past weeks already know that I am very eager to land Santana. However, I have never stated at what cost. Although, to be honest did expect Hughes to be in the deal. Which I never was happy about, but still was for the trade. I still am.
However, for Xmas I just got a autograph ball from Hughes and it says, “#1 Draft Pick” on it.
It got me thinking.. (I really DON’T want to trade Hughes, I really DO want to have Santana)
If Hughes and Buckholtz are comparable, and Buck is not in the trade.. Why do we have Hughes in it?
The Sox best pitcher included is Lester.. I say remove Phil and put in his place Ian.
I don’t see Ellsbury in the trade.
The Twins would rather have Lester/Crisp than Kennedy/Cabrera (I believe) Is there really that much of a difference here? ???
I say work a deal with the Twins starting with Kennedy.. if it doesn’t happen… Oh well. Hank offered them Hughes and set a deadline, should be tough noogies for the Twins.
SIDE NOTE: I absolutely can’t stand Crisp with his finger spasms holding the bat, his neck/head twitching.. and having to ensign the cross multiple times per bat. I won’t even mention his ridiculous name. Is he really starving for attention this bad??
Anyhow, I am still anxiously awaiting the resolve of this Santana thing. The longer it has gone on the more desperate I am to have him… also the longer it has gone on, the less I want Hughes in the deal. I want my cake and eat it too.
Seriously, I don’t see why we can’t build something with the Twins like..
Kennedy,Horne,Marquez,Jackson,Tabata,Cabrera .. for Santana, Nathan
okay.. maybe I’m dreaming…
But, Kennedy,Marquez,Jackson,Tabata +Horne? should easily get Santana.
Obviously, it depends on what the sox offer for what deal to be better.. but I am speaking about the Yankee’s package specifically.
gobbledygookguy, thank you very much.
Comparing Tabata and Lowrie is not even close. Yes right now Tabata might be a B+ to Lowrie A- but Lowrie is 4 years younger that Lowrie. Tabata in only 19 and he was on the top 100 list as an 18 year old. Tabata shoulds be one of the key prospects we should make sure to pick up in a trade with the evil empire. Lowrie might be a great but i think Tabata will be even better. Also we here in Minnesota have grown use to having great Center Fielders here not great short stops so lets go out and get a great Center fielding prospect. And No i do not think Ellsbury is all that he is cracked up to be i think that there are many better prosects out there compared to him. The kid got hot at the right time and i think we can go better.
roundabout,
yes I forgot he played left not right.
As for his prior cup of coffe, he was rushed to the majors as a 20 year old after just getting to AA because of an injury = deer in the headlights.
Also about sickels grading.. he says,
Jed Lowrie: everyone thinks I’m overrating him at A-. I can see a drop to B+ logically. HOWEVER, my instincts are screaming “leave him at A-,” and right now I’m inclined to play intuition on this one and stick to my guns.
Austin Jackson: B- is a notch to low. Have changed him to B.
Todd Frazier: B+ was a notch too high. Have changed him to B.
Alan Horne: No change yet. Will probably stay at Grade B
Joel-
You know something is wrong when this “2007 Range Factor” places Cabrera at #3 and ahead of Hunter. They can not be serious or maybe misplaced a decimal in there?
Also, in a discussion last week, someone found an “MLB position rating/zone” guide which placed Cabrera at #26 in CF among the 32 teams. Even the Yankee fans would rather have Hunter roaming center than Cabrera. Why do you think the Yanks are so willing to get rid of him?
Jose Tabata, OF, Grade B+
Ian Kennedy, RHP, Grade B+
Alan Horne, RHP, Grade B
Austin Jackson, OF, Grade B
+marquez
This is not enough to land Santana?
Fleas,
You don’t want to give up Phil Hughes (and I agree) but you have no problem giving up the rest of the farm system, for what it is, sans Joba and Hughes. So you are willing to give up not just Tabita, but Jackson, Horne, Kennedy, Marquez, along with Melky and Kennedy…. Anyone else? How about Cano (he’s young) BTW, Nathan is grat, but closer isn’t a priority position (We still have Joba to fall back on as a set-up man and/or closer) I am glad you are not sitting in Cashman’s chair..
Joel,
The important part is Melky recovered by that play - and he got a lot of exposure on it, lets say. He has developed nicely, so far. He has a ways to go before reaching his ceiling.
Yes, Yanks will slim down that payroll in 2009 (maybe some this year too) I doubt Giambi will be back; Mussina is on his last year; Pavano who? (lol)
Hawk,
Melky can go get the ball and he can throw it. I don’t have much faith in the zone rating.. it seems rather arbitrary for people (who they are I don’t know) to decide what is catchable and what’s not; How does one determine how are one ball is hit over another; deciding a ball is catchable or not could be a matter of inches, in some people’s mind.
Putting all your eggs in that basket will result in broken eggs
roundabout, 4 B prospects for 1 lefty proven ACE (young)
is very fair… yes Tabata and Jackson can be and already have shown to be awesome…
But where else are you going to find a Santana?
BTW, I was just throwing alternative ideas out there without thinking of signing the check… I wanted to see what others thought.
And when did I say “I would do that deal”.
In fact I sarcastically said, “This is not enough to land Santana?”
meaning you gotta be kidding me.
“Craig says:
December 26th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Twins desperately need pitching, so trade Morneau. ”
Okay Craig, I’ll bite.
We “heard” you the first five times you stated this.
kennedy, horne, marquez, tabata or jackson .. I would do
Fleas,
OK Sorry, I didn’t catch the sarcasm..
As for Zone range: ESPN’s ZR has Melky rated 6th for centerfielders, just ahead of Torii Hunter; now another rater has Melky at 26th,as Hawk says. Different values for different folks, I guess
In Zone range for right field, Shawn Green is ranked 6th in baseball, ahead of Ken Griffey Jr., Jermaine Dye, Alex Rios and Cuddyer. Lets be real here. Who would you rather have patrolling your right field, Green or Griffey (Hint: Green can barely run)
While all these mathematical formulas for stats tell us something, the eye still should count.
As Jimmy Breslin wrote: “Baseball isn’t statistics, it’s Joe DiMaggio rounding second base.”
Melky ahead of Hunter as a defensive CF doesn’t pass the stink test.
Whatever system came up with that result, should go into another business.
Sane,
Hence, we go back to what the eye sees and experience of watching and/or playing the game. What you see as a fan should count. I don’t need stats to tell me Steve Nash has great court sense and command. I can see that.
All these Zone ratings of what the fielder should get is arbitrary.It shows us something. Like all stats of that kind, far from being definitive.
I would say Hunter is still a fine fielder but is leaning toward decline, while Melky is rising. That’s just age, the natural course of sport.
Range Factor is this…..((PO+A)/innings)
Catch a lot of fly balls, then your range factor goes up. Play with a bunch of “sinker ball type” pitchers and your range factor goes down. Doesn’t really have much to do with range, other than to say if you catch a lot of fly balls, then you must be able to “go get the ball”. I’m not sold on this idea. Too many variables.
i think it’s interesting that a reporter in ny knows what bill smith is asking for and how it has changed but yet our local guys don’t seem to know who the players are or have the same inside info. who are we to believe? could it be the ny press is full of it?
Hawk,
The zone rating is the one that seems rather arbitrary to me. And it’s the one many people put their hat on
From ESPN:
“ZR Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive “zone,” as measured by STATS, Inc.”
STATS decides what balls a fielder should get to. Armchair baseball.
Zone rating says Green was better rightfielder than Griffey in getting to balls in 2007 and Melky ahead of Hunter.
Pitching dilemma is desperate, Morneau needs to be traded now.
Ok….we’ll trade Santana and “Craig” to the Yankees for Hughes, Kennedy, Tabata, and Jackson.
Hopefully, they’ll take “Craig”.
Nah, keep “Craig”…. leave the gun don’t forget the canolis
Mark Prior signed with the Padres…1yr for $1mil.
Why don’t Twins fans get in an uproar over the fact that the Twins have one of the best pitchers in the game and the won’t “Do whatever it takes” to re-sign him.
The offer was ridiculous at best.
Seriously, I am a baseball fan, with a perference of a few teams.. and one of them was the Marlins until the bigwigs spit in their fans faces a half dozen times. Not saying Twins VIPs are like that…
But c’mon, Santana is a rare gem. Seems to me like you Twins fans have become numb and allow your team’s owner to get rid of top talent whenever they feel like it… You guys need to get loud about it, not to mention it’s your tax dollars paying for your new stadium.
Just saying, not judging.
Twins fans aren’t numb, just tired of the way the MLB works…..
If you are from one of the Big-3 Markets you just wouldn’t understand.
how about cabrera (yes hes only 22 i think if hes out of the big market team and without the pressure he could be really good) hughes marquez (he looks like a really good prospect) and horne for santana?
KLOOB
I am in Sarasota Florida.. I do understand. Twins fans might want to pressure there team into keeping Santana instead of being so okay with it.
*new post*
Not gonna happen. As long as baseball is ran as a pure business with no regulation whatsoever, it is what it is. Especially when profits are at an all-time high. Woe is me to the all of the lower-cap teams… What incentives to these small-market owners have right now to spend more $$$? Very few actually care about winning if their pockets are getting lined.
MLB tries to sidetrack us by making all this hubub about HGH, which is completely retaridiculous.
