Santana smatterings
Posted on December 26th, 2007 – 5:47 PMBy La Velle
The Twins checked in with the Red Sox, Yankees and Mets just before everyone split for the holidays but nothing major appears to be heating up.
Yes, you just read the word Mets. Indications are that the Mets remain a viable destination for ace Johan Santana, and that the Twins like enough of their players that a deal could be worked out without shortstop Jose Reyes being part of the package.
Outfield prospects Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez have been mentioned in other reports as possible targets. Pitchers Mike Pelfrey, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber are considered good prospects but it’s unclear how much the Twins like them. And, it’s unknown if there are any established players the Mets are willing to part with (Reyes and David Wright seem untouchable).
This is pure speculation, but you have to wonder if the Twins would prefer to deal Santana to a National League team. Santana, a career .258 hitter, would get the chance to swing the bat. And, except for interleague play, the Twins wouldn’t have to face him during the regular season.
Other than that, things appear to be dormant on the trade front (I was told, `dormant,’ definitely was a good word to describe dealings with the Red Sox). But, like I always point out, that could always change.
Also heard that, in some trade scenarios discussed with the Yankees, that lefthander Kei Igawa’s name has popped up. Igawa, 28, was 2-3 with a 6.25 ERA last season. There’s a belief that he needs to get out of New York to establish himself. And, of course, Twins pitching coach Rick Anderson isn’t afraid of such a project. It’s still believed that Phillip Hughes and Melky Cabrera would lead any package from the Yankees.
It appears that someone is still waiting for the other to blink. The Twins are aware that going to spring training with Santana isn’t the best scenario, but they’ll do it if they have to.
I can’t commit to filing a daily report, given that it’s the holidays. But if there’s anything worth blogging, you’ll be informed here.
109 Responses to "Santana smatterings"
thank you for the update la velle. have a nice holiday
thanks for the update, any buzz on seattle or other teams jumping in?
I can’t believe that Igawa is being mentioned. Why would the twins choose Masterson over Igawa? Its weird.
cHRISTINA, Because Masterson is a MUCH better pitcher with greater upside.
Masterson = god from thru Eyes of Redsox Fans. another overhype prospect… Give me Buccholz.
GT2009- have you seen Masterson pitch in person as I have a few times?
People use to say Hanley Ramirez was overhyped. Look how he turned out.
Haven’t heard anything about Seattle, the Angels or Dodgers getting involved.
And while Igawa has been kicked around he may be the No.4 player involved. Plus we don’t really know how many players and scenarios have been discussed.
La Velle, If you had to take your best guess who do you see Johan being traded to and when, please? I enjoy your work greatly.
Igawa is horrible. A soft tosser who pitches (fastball, slider, and change up) upstairs with nothing on it(see batting practice stuff). Why give the Yankees a break and take their big mistake signing from last year?
how about cabrera (yes hes only 22 i think if hes out of the big market team and without the pressure he could be really good) hughes marquez (he looks like a really good prospect) and horne for santana?
What would be so bad about having Johann Santana pitching for you during a salary drive year?
Not much new in this report. Igawa was mentioned weeks ago - and he has not gained much traction. I would assume Igawa certainly would be a throw-in (Yanks can shed his salary) from the Twins point of view. The angle about the Twins preferring a National League locale has been out there, just as the talks with the Bosox remain static.
No word here on Murray Chass of the NY Times reported today that the Twins have backed down on Kennedy and are willing to take Jeff Marquez. The proposal would be Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and Marquez (and one more player, Chass is guessing).
Trading Morneau could address the desperate pitching needs.
FYI.. Here’s from Bill Madden of the Daily News of New York a couple of weeks ago… Maybe, the Yanks wont give up Hughes. I guess if the Redsox dont give up Buchholz. lol ..
Brian Cashman, Yanks balk at millions and Phil Hughes for Johan Santana
Wednesday, December 5th 2007, 10:22 AM
Brian Cashman is not worried about Johan Santana’s (below) possible move to Boston - his call is to go with the kids in the rotation.
NASHVILLE - Even though George Steinbrenner is no longer the one to say it, Brian Cashman had better be right about Phil Hughes.
The Yankee GM, who is staking his job on his young-gun pitchers, has walked away from a 4-for-1 trade of players the Twins were agreeable to for Johan Santana at the winter meetings that included Hughes, but not Ian Kennedy (as Minnesota initially requested) or any of the Bombers’ other top prospects. By doing so, Cashman has apparently handed one of the best young pitchers in baseball to the Red Sox for a parcel of prospects that is also likely to be a far cry from the Twins’ original asking price for their premier lefthander.
But it is more than just Cashman’s belief in Hughes that suddenly put the Yankees in full retreat after Hank Steinbrenner had sounded the “Charge!” on Santana. Believe it or not, the final decision not to go through with a deal that was on the table - one that would have sacrificed Hughes, Melky Cabrera, 23-year-old Double-A righthander Jeff Marquez and 22-year-old A-ball third baseman Mitch Hilligoss - was based on money.
Once Andy Pettitte announced he was returning to the fold for $16 million, it meant the Yankees had committed $408.4 million this winter to retain six players. The acquisition of Santana would have meant tacking on another $125 million to that figure, and Cashman, who never wanted to do the Santana deal in the first place, blanched at the prospect of adding another $20 million to a payroll that was already on the cusp of $200 million, again. In this respect, the timing of Pettitte’s decision to return - while initially seen as giving the Yankees additional leverage in their dealings with the Twins on Santana - actually gave Cashman the “out” he needed.
Bad as it was to be sacrificing Hughes, Cashman told the Yankee high command, look at what the payroll was going to be now if they added $20 million-$21 million for Santana on top of the $16 million they just tacked on with Pettitte. At that point, there was considerable internal debate as to whether to proceed with Santana even after the Twins had backed off from Kennedy and picked Marquez, who is regarded as a second-tier pitching prospect, and Hilligoss, a Wade Boggs-type singles-hitting third baseman who did have a 35-game hitting streak last season and led the South Atlantic League in hits.
In the end, Cashman prevailed, convincing Hank and Hal Steinbrenner of something he could never have done with their dad - that trading for Johan Santana was simply too expensive for the New York Yankees. Left unsaid was why the Yankee payroll is once again out of hand. For starters, there’s the $10 million that is being frittered away on Carl Pavano next season and another $4 million for Kei Igawa that is separate from his $26 million posting fee. And had Cashman not chosen to let Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera play out the season before dealing with them as free agents, he would have saved at least a year and a couple of million apiece on their contracts.
why would the twins trade morneau thats just stupid hes why to young and way to good and will get more power
lets quit this silly talk of trading Johan Santana, a future hall of famer, unless we get a deal that no team is willing to offer.
Of course people will say we dont hold the cards if we are willing to give in.
But,we need to be willing to sign him UNLESS someone offers a deal we simply couldnt turn down.
Get Ellsbury!!! Don’t do a deal without Ellsbury!! Ellsbury and Masterson for Santana would be a terrific deal!!!
Exclaimation Points!!!!
Craig, can you get the fact into your head that we are not trading Morneau!? Every single one of these blogs you have mentioned that “possibility.” It’s not going to happen and it shouldn’t happen!! Yeah, it might adress some pitching needs but what about our hitting??!! That’s why we have failed to advance past the first round of the playoffs since 2002. “Desperate pitching needs?” Are you kidding me?! I think when you have Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Perkins, Bonser, and Blackburn in addition to Santana, you’re alright. I doubt Craig has been to a game in his life, let alone knows who the Twins starting catcher is.
I dont want Igawa..
If Anderson wants a pitching project.. get a young kid who you you can teach.. not a guy that is terrible and has a fair contract..
Hughes/Melky/Matsui
I don’t see Igawa as being a real possibility, but he did have some good outings. Inconsistent, and it might have been the stage he was on. In the minors he was quite good, and showed he could sometimes do well in the majors.
I don’t think Matsui would drop his NTC to go to Minnesota.
I doubt Matsui will be asked to agree to be traded to Minnesota, unless the Twins want him instead of Melky Cabrera. The Yanks may not offer Hughes (a deal killer) since Cashman is against it, let alone adding Matsui.
It’s wonderful to say you want this; another thing is whether the other team will accept.
If we’re playing that wishing game - How about Giambi, Kennedy, Igawa and Wilson Betemit for Morneau.
Where would we put Matsui and how would we pay him? There is absolutely no chance or reason for Matsui to be here.
If I hear the mention of trading Morneau……seriously.
Hughes, Cabrera, Igawa, and a side of fries…do it and get this over with. Let’s cash in next season.
Mark, the bad thing about having Santana pitch for you during a “salary drive” year, is that after that one year, he will be gone and you will have absolutely nothing to show for it….
How does that help this organization?
Kevin Mulvey of the Mets is under rated and I would love to have Carlos Gomez in the outfield for years to come. Add in a Mike Pelfrey and a couple other prospects and i really don’t think that is a bad deal.
With desperate pitching needs, the best trade is Morneau for pitching.
lalalalalala
The Mets Prospects stink and Boston is not offering enough of their good prospects,,Coco Crisp is horrible ..Where does Santana want to go? anyway I think that Phil Hughes is gonna be the real deal..and Melky has a gun and he is a switch hitter with upside,,Id rather have him than Coco and Id rather have hughes than lester and if you through in some more minor leaguers i would be happy,,But it seems the yankees are gonna keep these guys and the ship has sailed..the Twins sat on their hands and blew it..
I would really like to see Reyes as part of that deal.
LV,
Why do you continue to throw Reyes and Wright’s names out there? They “seem to be untouchable,” you say. No, they ARE untouchable. There’s no debate over that.
I think they have to sign Johan if they can’t make a deal for him, and right now it looks as though we have less options than we did a few weeks ago to trade him.
reyes and wright would NEVER be part of this deal (omar minaya would probably have to hire armed bodyguards around the clock if he ever did anything that stupid). personally i dont want to give up any of our prospects for him. we’re supposed to give the twins our entire farm and THEN pay him 20-25 mill a year for at least 6 years? no thanks. hopefully the redsox or yanks are stupid enough to get fleeced by the twins. and if he does make it to free agency he shouldnt get anything more than a 5 year deal. some team is going to get screwed bigtime by santana, either with prospects, financially, or, God forbid, both. i hope its not the mets.
If the Twins were planning on signing Johan Santana, wouldn’t they have done so already, rather than go through all this…
Yea because the Mets gave away scott kazmir for victor zambrano..Rich probably liked that trade but he doesnt want the best pitcher in the game like Santana ,,ok Rich ,,what are you smokin,,we all see right through you ,you are a scorned met fan with nothing to root for ,,you bought that whole team reyes and wright are your only home grown talent..That team will go down in history as the biggest choke bags .
rich is a met fan worried about money..14 mil wagner stinks,,17mil beltran stinks and watched strike 3 right down the pipe to end the playoffs against cards..delgado 16 mil stinks,,pedro 16 mil pitched about 8 games in 3 years stinks,, moises alou 9 mil old stinker,,,shawn green 12 mil stinks,,
guys please..despite what the mets did last year they’re still a very good team. they “sucked” last year and won 88 games. i’m not so much worried about the money as i am depleting an already thin farm system. look at the numbers of the guys who you say stink. please, pawn cy santana on someone else, we’ll be fine without him.
and one more thing, i didnt make that assinine trade for zambrano, jim duquette did and no, me and any other guy with half a brain didnt like it. i’m not saying santana isnt great, i’m saying for what the twins want, you can keep him.
[…] (Source) […]
LEN3 reports that Igawa’s name has surfaced the day after Christmas.Were the heck did that come from.That proves in my view, that the east coast media is trying to fill newspaper space.Talk about speculation.When or if the trade comes i hope we judge it on the merits of the trade and not compare and contrast it to the other speculated trade scenarios
Geno,
Kei Igawa’s name was tossed out there weeks ago. I don’t know if there is any traction to him, but some teams like another team’s failure — a resurrection mentality.
Just because you were not aware of it, doesn’t mean it was some machination. If your only source is a Twin official (apparently the case here) then you won’t get all the possibilities.
The latest is Twins have given up on Kennedy but would take Marquis. True or not, it’s out there.
[…] Twins Insider » Blog Archive » Santana smatterings […]
If we can’t trade Morneau, I think we should trade Silva for a shortstop. Then we can package Bartlett with Santana for Hughes, Kennedy, and Cabrera.
the twins should just take the ellsbury trade and get it overwith if matterson is as good as everyone thinks y not do it to much of waiting and trying to get everything might end up haunting the twins
Is Ellsbury being offered? I think not..
he has been offered
Plus, I wouldn’t feel like we were “gutting” our farm system. In the first package, we keep our two SP draftees(Humber and Pelfrey), and in the latter, we can keep Gomez and Humber for possible future trades. Now, if those aren’t exactly close to what you as Twins fans would find acceptable, who would you substitute in my pacakges, and why(obviously not Reyes or Wright)
Desperate for pitching, the Twins should trade Morneau.
Desperate for insight, Craig should get a clue.
With pitching in a desperate crisis, Morneau must be traded.
With hyperbole escalating, we must rephrase our posts to get our points across. I PROPOSE CAPS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!
Craig is like a t-rd in the punchbowl.
How dare you impersonate me?!
“mets prospects stink” is obviously a Yankees fan. Come on man, at least make an effort to seem legit.
Who is impersonating what?
the mets fan want to give up crap for the best pitcher in the game,,humber ,pelfrey, heilman,gomez etc..oh my god ..get real,,reyes or wright for santana is fair..at least when the yankees traded for the best hitter in the game in arod they gave up a 40 40 guy in soriano,,who is far better than reyes..so stop complaining ,,if you want the best give up a desent player like reyes..so he steals alot of bases,,so does chone figgins ,,jaun piere ,,carl crawford etc etc etc,,they think reyes is so untouchable..stop
yanks stink too
After thinking it over, I realized Craig is right. The Twins will soon not be able to afford Morneau, so they might as well trade him for pitching now.
Desperately in need of pitching, the Twins MUST trade Morneau.
From a Boston view, I would love to give up Crisp, Lester, Lowrie and Masterson. Love Lester but would rather give him than Ellsbury. Ellsbury, Lowrie & MAsterson would be better for the Twins but I hate giving up Ellsbury and MLB would crucify the Twins for that trade. Just my 2 cents…
This is getting ridiculous. They just need to do something.
Those are the only two offers you will get from Boston. If we don’t get Santana, thats ok. We still have Beckett, Dice-K, Schilling, Wakefield, Bucholtz/Lester and we keep Ellsbury. Crisp will be traded for relief pitching.
The Twins are kinda screwed. Offers are only going to get worse for Santana. All the other MLB teams know the Twins have lost the advantage. Trade him now or get a lot less later. Do you want him to walk for no compensation in a year?
why is everyone so high on ellsbury ,,has he played more then 20 games in the bigs,,and when your a cant miss big time prospect like ellsbury why come up at 24 years old,,thats kinda old,,where was he at 20 ,21,22 guys that are great come up alot younger than that,,he hasnt shown me enough to go crazy on him,,I dont know about this guy,,but time will tell
how old is hanley ramirez when he came up,,i wish boston could of givin us him
Maybe in a few years…MAYBE. Now? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! And why would we trade him for pitching anyway??? We have pitching. What we don’t have is hitting.
————————————-
BS: I know! Let’s trade Morneau!
Some guy: What?!?
BS: Yeah, it’ll be great!!! We sucked on offense last year, so this will make things awesome!!!
SG: What in the world are you talking about?!?
BS: See, it’s like this: We suck on offense. To make sure we continue to suck, we let Hunter go (done), sign an out machine at short (done), and trade away the first Twin in almost 2 decades to hit 30 homers in a single season. IT’S F–KIN’ BRILLIANT!!! Wait. I know! When I trade him, I’ll get pitching in return. We have no pitching in our farm system. It’s full of nothing but 40 home run power hitters. Liriano, Baker, Slowy, Santana, Perkins, Blackburn, and Bonser are just horrible pitchers. WE NEED MORE PITCHING NOW!!!
——————————-
Seriously, just stop.
there are lots of mets fans that would gladly give up 5 prospects for santana (i personally wouldnt give more than 3) but there are no mets fans that would even consider wright or reyes.
Twins pitching is in a desperate state, trade Morneau ASAP!
morneau,santana and mauer for heilman ,humber, mulvey and pelfrey…
Clearly someone hasn’t been paying close attention to the Twins offseason if he still believes that Bartlett and Silva are on the team. For those of you who missed the transactions, Silva was signed by the Mariners about a week or so ago and Bartlett was of course involved in the Young\Garza swap. (Maybe that’s why he thinks they can afford to trade Morneau because of the presence of Young, but it’s not a good idea. Young, Morneau and Mauer could form a powerful triumverate in the Twins lineup for years.
Anyway, onto my point about Santana. I am a fan of the Seattle Mariners and I would really like to acquire a pitcher of Santana’s calibre. I do believe that Seattle has the pieces to get it done. I would not be surprised to see the Mariners jump in at the 11th hour and at least submit a competitive proposal, especially given the presence of Silva, a close friend of Santana. The real question, with other substantial financial commitments already made, will the Mariners ownership allow them to pay the price to bring Santana to Seattle? Being that Santana is a once in a generation type pitcher I would hope the answer would be yes.
On to my offer. Were I running things for the Mariners, I would submit a proposal headlined by CF Adam Jones and RHP Brandon Morrow. Not sure what else I would offer, but that would be a fine starting point in my estimation.
Best of luck to your team in this most difficult situation. It is indeed sad that teams like the Twins are forced for whatever reason to become farm teams for the bigger markets. I sincerely hope that the Twins get something that will positively impact their longterm fortunes. We need smaller market teams to be competitive for the good of the game and to show those big markets that money doesn’t solve everything. That is to say you can’t buy championships.
My apologies for having submitted such a long-winded post.
Go Mariners!
Best of luck to your team in this most difficult situation.
I don’t think it’s a difficult situation. If the Twins don’t get what they want in terms of an offer, they will be forced to put a two-time (should be three) Cy Young winner back at the top of their rotation. They can extend his contract, if they want to, trade him later or just take draft choices. All are preferable options to what has reportedly been offered so far.
Want to show the big markets they don’t call the shots? Then don’t give them a ‘once in a generation talent,’ until and unless they up the ante. The Twins have had the leverage here since the start and all parties know it. Nothing has changed and no need to rush. Fair value or no deal. Not difficult at all.
What if the twins signed him to the extension he wants but insist no trade clause and try to trade him after the 2008 season? Do you think they would be able to command the type of package of players they are asking for? If not why would they be asking so much for a guy most teams would not touch at the type of salary and length of contract he wants to command.
Comparing the Yankee deal with Texas (Arod for Sariano) is absurd for many reasons:
A.) Arod was not a free agent
B.) He was cost controlled for 4 years with Texas paying a nice portion of it
C.) He was more of a sure thing than ANY pitcher can be. End of story
You don’t EVER trade a Jose Reyes FRANCHISE player (met fan, speaking) for a guy with 1 more cost controlled year if you just wait it out.
YOU would not trade Mauer or any franchise player for Santana in this scenerio and that is WHY the Yankees won’t either.
Don’t let bias cloud common sense. If Omar traded Reyes for Santana he would be killed by fans. Maybe literally.
Giving Santanta to the Red Sox might be the best thing for the Twins, but if the Sox get Santana you might as well just cancel the 2008 season and hand the world series to Boston.
SP - Santana
SP - Beckett
SP - Matsuzaka
SP - Shilling
SP - Lester
Not to mention the Sox have one of the best offenses in the Majors!!
If Boston wins another world series to go along with the Patriots winning super bowls i think i am going to quit watching sports all togetherrr!!!
THE TWINS SHOULD TRADE SANTANA TO THE NL IF THEY ARE SMART!!
Pelfrey/Mulvey/Humber are decent young talents who are still developing. Also, Gomez is going to be just as good or better than Crisp or Cabrera!! Throw in Fernando Martinez and this is an even deal!!
Error.. sry
5th Starter: Wakefield/Bucholtz
I officially take it back. We don’t need to trade Mourneau for pitching. We must now trade Mourneau, Mauer, and Young for pitching!
These topics constantly calling for “fleecing” the sox for Santana just are not going to happen. Period. The Sox do not really need him and the Yanks desperately do as is abundantly clear. Drive the price up and make sure the Yanks pay, pay and pay more is what the Sox are doing and if the Twins hold onto him this season? Sign him as a FA when the season is over and join him with another ex-Twin David Ortiz.
That post above about Ellsbury above being an “old” rookie at 24. The Sox rarely draft high school players and prefer more mature JC ones instead, just how they prefer to go for some reason.
I also recall an “old” Wade Boggs breaking in at 25 and getting over 3000 hits……
My god I hope you do trade him to that Mets for those prospects! That would be soo funny! Smith cutting off his nose to bite his face!
John Silver wants to drive the price up for the Yankees. The Red Sox keep trying that - it looks like the Yankees aren’t biting. I think there on to your brilliant plan!!! You think Brian Cashman is going to lose any sleep when the Red Sox sign Santana to 7 year - 140 million deal. I dont. Check the ERA of your starters against the Yankees - yeah they’re really shaking in the shoes about facing the Sox. Get over yourself.
It’s funny how everyone now realizes that the Sox were only in it to get the price up. If they really wanted him this deal would have been done weeks ago.
It’s only place he can go. Thats the Yankees. They now hold all the cards because there is no way Minny wants to deal with the circus all season long.
I sure hope BS doesn’t have the same nervous stomach many here seem to have or we’ll never get a good deal for Santana. In no way has the price for Santana gone down since the GM meetings….just because we haven’t heard anything publicly doesn’t mean interest has decreased, it just means there are no winter meetings currently going on and therefore no reason to be talking to reporters every day.
The worst thing BS could do is make a bad deal. No deal (which means 1 more year of Santana + 2 first round draft picks) is better than a bad deal because of the criticism a bad deal would cause, which would go on for the next 15 years.
And if the Mets deal comes even close to the Sox or Yanks I think you have to take it….not having Santana in the AL is worth something in any trade that may push a NL team over the top.
ill take the gomez kid over Melky, and ill take a mulvey, pelfrey, humber combination over a lester/masterson combo from sox
gomez/pelfrey/mulvey/humber/martinez.. take atleast 3 of these top 5.. find yourself a infield prospect and call it a deal..
twins are still trying to win and having in the NL is alot better for the organization
Twins4Life,
I believe Ellsbury was taken off the table already. He’s not available. So. it’s Crisp or bust. Hughes might be off the table/ So it looks like another team will become your partner, unless you take one of their two offers.
yankees08..
how is the mets package of mulvey, pelfrey, humber, martinez, gomez..
a combination of probably atleast 3 of them, any worse then what the yanks are offering?
Your offering a Bonafied Ace in Hughes.. sure thast worth alot.. but Twins view melky as a #4 outfielder at best.. (sure its better then what we have, but no where close to what we Had)
and your offering up a 3rd player?!?!
ill take 5 young kids, which include a couple young pitchers and let anderson work with them.. give me a young CF who has lights out speed and another bonafied infield prospect and the twins are the team taking it to the bank..
From a NY sportswriter’s blog:
Yanks should say no thanks for Santana
December
27 By the time 2008 rolls around, the Johan Santana Rumor Mill will get cranked up again.
The latest bit of speculation is that Minnesota would accept a package of Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Jeff Marquez for their lefty ace. I’m sure that sounds acceptable to many fans.
But, for a second, look at the bigger picture. Are the Yankees developing their kids to play them or trade them?
Santana is terrific, no doubt about it. But adding him to the roster would cost $20 million a season plus a 40-percent luxury tax penalty. The Yankees will be paying for what Santana did in Minnesota.
Santana could be great again. He was 15-13, 3.33 last season despite a lack of run support and only will be 29 in March. But he has thrown 932 innings over the last four seasons, counting the postseason. Sure, he could be terrific. Or he could be the next Mike Hampton. Nobody knows. Name me all the long-term contracts for pitchers that worked out well over the years.
Hughes and Cabrera are symbols of what Brian Cashman is trying to do with the Yankees. The organization did a great job of scouting, drafting and then developing Hughes into the best pitching prospect in the minors.
Cabrera is a guy they rushed to the majors in 2005, screwed up and then built back up into a player good enough to take a job away from Johnny Damon. He would have been cut or traded five years ago.
Trade these guys now and the message is pretty clear: The Yankees are only paying lip service to development. This isn’t trading a few B-level prospects for Bobby Abreu in July. This would be an old-school Yankees move.
It’s their money, not ours. But I sit there at the Stadium and listen. People cheer loudest for the players who came up in pinstripes. People respect A-Rod but they love Jeter. They wanted Clemens do well. They adored Andy Pettitte.
Cashman has somehow made it cool for Yankee fans to care about Jose Tabata even though 99 percent of them have no idea what he looks like.
Spend the money on draft picks, Dominican shortstops and Taiwanese pitchers. Go find kids in Korea, Australia, Venezuela and everywhere else. Hire more scouts and go see every junior college prospect in Texas. Go find the next Santana, don’t trade for the old one.
Let Santana go to the Mets or the Angels or better yet, let him stay in Minnesota where he belongs. If the Red Sox were serious, they would have done the deal weeks ago. They’re pushing chips around the table hoping somebody in Tampa will go all in so they can fold.
We’ve spent two years wondering how good Phil Hughes could be. Let’s find out.
UPDATE, 8:52 a.m.: After seeing all the comments and e-mails, let me clarify something. Santana is a wonderful pitcher. I’m not anti-Santana or against the idea of making trades. I’m with Cashman on this, at some point you have to give these kids you develop a shot. Santana didn’t just arrive one day and win the Cy Young. The Twins developed him over several years.
To me this isn’t a money issue, it’s a philosophy issue. Are the Yankees going to do what they always do and overpay for their starters or develop their own?
Here is the thing.
The yanks do overpay.. no doubt about that..
but name the time when the yanks overpayed for a 2 time cy young winner in his prime..
my only guess is Clemens?!?! that wound up with them winning the World Series..
Randy Johnson was overpaid.. but he was 40+ years old.. no wonder that didnt work out..
We are talking about Johan, a pitcher in his prime, young and should have 3 cy Youngs
I think from the Mets, the Twins should ask for (1)Gomez(cf),(2)Martinez(of), (3)Pelfrey(p),(4)Mulvey(p) and (5)Guerra(p).
If the Mets won’t go for it, let them keep one of the pitchers.
They don’t have a worthwhile infield prospect, so get any needed IF with the $13mil we save from Santana’s unpaid salary.
MH,
Yanks got Roger Clemens for David Wells and a song, Homer Bush and Graeme Lloyd
The Yanks didn’t overpay. For mediocre players they do..
I think getting just Pelfrey(p) and Guerra(p) from the Mets would be enough. I really don’t think Santana is that good of a pitcher.
Hey MH,
I’m not saying Melky is a great centerfielder..he’s servicable at best. Yes, Hughes is a stud and I want to keep him no matter what. What I am saying is that the Mets prospects are a cut and half below the Yankees and Red Sox prospects. There’s not doubt, they shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath. What is funny is that you Minnesotans are so worried about the Yanks or Sox getting the upperhand in any Santana deal that you’re advocating sending him to the Mets for b-/c+ prospects at best. That’s what I mean by Smith cutting off his nose to spite his face. Again, it would be so funny to see you guys trade Santana for those Mets prospects. Please, Please do it! The Yanks and Sox aren’t willing to pay what you think is the asking price and then pay the guy 7yr/$140mil.
MH:
FYI, The Yankees got Johnson for Ps Javier Vazquez and Brad Halsey, C Dioner Navarro and $9 million.
They traded Johnson to the Diamondbacks for reliever Luis Vizcaino and three minor leaguers: right-handers Ross Ohlendorf and Steven Jackson, and shortstop Alberto Gonzalez.
I think Guerra from the Mets is a better prospect than either Hughes or Ellsbury. I would take Guerra in a one for one trade for Santana.
Yankees08- find a source that has Gomez listed as a B-/C+ prospect.
Get Gomez, Martinez, Pelphrey, Mulvey, and/or Heilman from the Mets. Groom Gomez and Martinez for a year, throw Heilman in the rotation (I’ve always thought he has been underutilized. May not be the same level prospects as Hughes, but good enough just to keep Johan out of the AL. No Twins fan wants to watch him face the us. Scrap the Sox deal, Ellsbury is very far from a sure thing, and Lester unfortunately has a disease that could spring back at any time. Too chancy.
I have read no report that Ellsbury is off the table. Buchlotz, Reyes, Wright Joba, Kennedy… yes. But no reputable source has put Elssbury in that group.
Ellsbury is talked about a little less because his deal is a little less attractive (for some) because it lacks a ML ready starter and contains one less player than the Lester deal.
Not Gomez, but everybody else, and yes Gomez has the raw physical tools but is much, much further from the Majors than the Yanks/Sox prospects so at this point in his career it’s all a guess. If there is a way to do it, check out an archived article in the Daily News by Bill Madden from May or June entitled “Is the future so bright?” This article provides a very detailed breakdown of the Mets farm system with scouting report and analysis on all the Mets prospects that you guys seem to be clamoring over. I think the title of the article gives you a hint as to the conclusions.
I would be willing to trade Santana just for Gomez. He is going to be a superstar. He is already a great hitter.
why do the twins insist on reyes and wright from the mets-these guys are established mvp candidates and they are not asking for that from the yankees or red sox. Are they asking the sox for jonathon papelbon or matsuzaka or there not asking they yankees for joba or wang so why do they need these guys from the mets. they equivalent to coco crisp and melky cabrera from the sox and yankees is ryan church on the mets, and will be carlos gomez in the future its not david wright or jose reyes.
Again, RyanW, I can only hope and pray that Smith would do that! Oh Lord, please!
Yankees08
Besides Hughes who should develop into a quality pitcher over the next couple years, but is not an ‘ace’ yet, the yankees other prospects (not including Joba, but he’s not goin anywhere) are not a cut and a half above the mets. I like Gomez a lot better than Cabrera and i believe all other Twins fans feel the same. Melky is an average ML centerfielder at best with a good arm, however, Gomez has the potential to be a star. As far as the mets pitching prospects, i dont see a drop off from the yankees pitching prospects at all, besides Hughes.
Yankees08- I am not clamoring over anything. I am just trying to keep your posts honest. I too prefer the Sox and Yankee deals. But it might be because I am impatient and want immediate return. If the Twins could pull Martinez and Gomez + in a deal with the Mets, it is possible that 3 years from know we all are talking about how lobsided the deal was for the Twins… of course the opposite could be true as well.
“I would be willing to trade Santana just for Gomez. He is going to be a superstar. He is already a great hitter.”
I did not post this… the imposter posts are getting quite boring
yeh but the mets are willing to give aaron heilman who is an established ml pitcher whose under contract for the next few years, pair that with church, martinez or gomez, and pelfrey and humber or mulvery and i think this is easily the most attractive proposal out there for the twins.
Wolf,
Lets be clear here, I don’t want the Twins to take our deal over the Mets. I’m not saying we put such a great deal on the table that it’s an insult not to take it. I don’t want Santana for a variety of reasons. I’d rather keep our young players. Being a New Yorker and avid bball fan, I just think its real funny that you guys think the Mets offer is some how good.
the mets fans shouldnt even get into the santana debate,,your team stinks the gm stinks your owner stinks and your prospects stink..randolph stinks….big chokers..get ready for another crap year
I am impatient and waiting to trade Santana is getting quite boring. I really don’t care who they get in return, just trade him.
Yankees deal- you return one probable top tier player- Hughes
Red Sox deal- one with Ellsbury, none with the Lester deal.
Mets- probable? hard to say, but up to two possible ones (Gomez and Martinez).
We only have one deal to base our knowlege of BS’s tendancies, but the Young deal brought back one potential star and two lesser players… if that is a measure, I see BS taking the Yankee deal for Hughes… second would be the Ellsbury package offered by the sox.
how about santana to the mets for a nice thank you and a vow not to talk about it anymore?
John,
Agreed, they need to deal him to the Mets. Get the two OF propsects, Heilman, and hopefully a SP prospect. We’ll give them Sweet Nicky Punto and a wet paper bag in addition. After all, everybody needs a hobbit utility infielder, right?
