Out Of Pocket..
Posted on January 7th, 2008 – 8:07 PMBy La Velle
Sorry for not posting recently. Drove to Chicago on Saturday, then drove back on Sunday. I’m not sure at what point I was on the highway when the massive wreck occurred, but I want to express my condolences to anyone affected by the big wreck on I-90.
I’m off for the next two weeks but, just for fun, I’m going to post a list from my buddy Todd Metoxen of his top ten CD’s of 2007. Feel free disagree…
The list…
10. Rush - Snakes & Arrows
9. Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
8. Prince - Planet Earth
7. Neil Young - Live At Massey Hall 1971
6. Lucinda Williams - West
5. Jimmy Thackery - Solid Ice
4. Bryan Ferry - Dylanesque
3. The White Stripes - Icky Thump
2. Robert Plant/Alison Krauss - Raising Sand
1. Bruce Springsteen - Magic
562 Responses to "Out Of Pocket.."
La Velle when we asked for a new post this isn’t what we had in mind. We want Santana news.
Yes Santana news this is a little well not anyway near the hot stove. I think that Johan will be the opening day starter.
I for one am happy to her from you LaVelle and enjoy the vacation.
BRRRRUUUUUUCCCE!!!
Geez, relax on the Santana news. Obviously, if anything was going on, 3 would put it here. Take a break, get some fresh air, listen to some music, read a book… ;*)
I’m reading a collection of Ernie Harwell stories that is a nice Hot Stove read.
Maybe LaVelle could give us some fun Harry and Jimmy Piersall stories?
Do you guys think that with La Velle gone this blog will have 1,000,000 comments. Won’t it be funny if Santana is traded turning La Velles vacation.
Can’t go wrong with the Boss (the REAL boss, not of the pinstripe nature).
Len3 forgot:
Kanye West- Graduation
The Killers- Sawdust
Timbaland- Shock Value
and Angels and Airwaves- I-Empire
lavelle — youre fired……
Al Gore- I was voted president
pretty funny,
ok well we asked for a new blog even if it didnt say anything…. well this is worse then saying nothing… this has NOTHING to do with the twins…… i think this is something howard would say
Do artists still make CDs?
This is a Minnesota paper and No game for Bob Dylan, the favorite son.. Shameful…
SPeaking of good books i am reading I Am America (and So can You) by Steven Colbert. I have to say it might be the best book that i have read. I never laugh out loud when i read but this book cracks me up. Boy it was nice to see him back on the air tonight finnaly some good TV agian.
liondragon=prepubescent fanboy
Wilco=best live band of 2005-2007
Johan Santana-related news.
Looks like Seattle has its eyes on another lefty
Erik Bedard Rumors: Mariners, Reds, Indians
Erik Bedard staying put in Baltimore this winter? Maybe not. Ken Rosenthal and Jason Churchill both busted out brand new material this evening with the latest Bedard chatter. The upshot is that the Mariners seem to have a decent shot at him.
Rosenthal says the Mariners will put Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, and Matt Tuiasosopo in the deal. He indicates that the Orioles could push to substitute and get one of Tony Butler, Chris Tillman, and Carlos Triunfel. Looks like Bill Bavasi is sticking to the idea of keeping Brandon Morrow. Rosenthal hedges his bets, but admits to “growing indications that the teams could be moving closer to a deal.”
Churchill says something similar: the Mariners and Orioles “may very well be making significant progress.” Churchill sees a package of Jones, Triunfel, and George Sherrill as the likely scenario.
Baseball Prospectus’ Kevin Goldstein recently listed his Top 11 Prospects for the Mariners. Clement was a five-star, Tillman and Triunfel four-stars, Butler a two-star, and Tuiasosopo an honorable mention. Jones would be first were he still considered a prospect.
Both Ohio teams have interest in Bedard as well, but a trade to the Indians or Reds seems less likely. The Reds still won’t give up Jay Bruce.
I for one don’t want to hear anything about Johan S. until someone signs him.
In this respect, thanks for your leadership, LENIII.
Now, an in-depth report about Liriano directly from his training site would be delicious. Stuff like, Is he still throwing with the same delivery style? Is he feeling strong? Got any velocity potential? Does he feel comfortable with his command? Does he ffel like a pitcher?
You know, all the things the Twins would like no one to really know at this time.
If I hadn’t seen Springsteen perform live… I would think putting Magic in that top 10 would be a horrible decision.
It’s like giving an old timer not only a place on the all star team, but making them the cleanup, or leadoff hitter.
But he was spectacular in concert as always.
I see he’s not a big fan of newer bands. I like Lucinda Williams and Neil Young… but man… this is a KQ92 Moldy oldy list. I listen to a lot of older rock, but damn…
1. Into the Wild Motion Picture Soundtrack by Eddie Vedder
2. The Cliks - Snakehouse
3. Daron Bennett - 20 Scarlett Monkeys
4. The Donnas - Bitchen
5. Brother Ali - Undisputed Truth
6. Bright Eyes - Casadaga
7. Arcade Fire - Neon Bible
8. Melissa Etheridge - The Awakening
9. Bruce Springsteen - Magic
10. The Cult - Born Into This
Roundabout.
what the heck have I been saying about making a trade with Seattle for Santana!!!
If the Twins skip Marrow, and we could have the world from them.
Right now if I were the Indians I would be looking at my farm system, and knowing that we don’t want to look like the Twins… we have a 2 year window right now where the Yankees are not dominating, and it’s a 5 team race for 4 playoff spots… The Red Sox are the same team… maybe better if they get Santana,
The Yankees are going to still be good, and could get Santana. The Tigers are neck and neck with the Red Sox… and the Angels have improved. so if I were cleveland I would look at mortgaging 2010-2011 for right now… Because if the Yankees get Santana the Indians are no better than the Twins… sitting at home watching the playoffs, and probably losing CC Sabbathia the fat jerk.
BC,
There is a rough market out there and decisions have to be made..
You have been touting Seattle - that’s for sure. I personally thought Seattle wouldn’t trade their young potentials for Santana, preferring instead to hoard their talent.
So I am surprised they would go for Bedard. I like Bedard, but if you are going to trade your top young talent get the best - Santana.
I argue the Yanks will need their youngsters down the road for their aging position players..
Well Tony Massarotti of the Boston Herald sees the same issues for the Red Sox.
This is what he wrote:
As the Red Sox approach spring training - with or without Johan Santana - here is something worth arguing against the deal: Some time in the next few years, perhaps, the Sox may be faced with the reality of replacing David Ortiz [stats] or Manny Ramirez [stats] - or both - and there is little indication that the Sox have a hitter the caliber of either in their organization.
Subsequently, players like Jon Lester [stats], Clay Buchholz and Jacoby Ellsbury could be more valuable in a later trade, though it certainly could be argued that the value of each never will be higher than it is right now.
Which brings us to the following:
If history holds to form - and if the Florida Marlins continue to trade away their best players as free agency approaches - might not Hanley Ramirez be available by trade eventually? And if so, could the Sox effectively reverse the Ramirez-Josh Beckett [stats] deal by sending pitching prospects to the Marlins for the All-Star shortstop?
Just imagine how they feel in Florida, where the Marlins are a bona fide major league taxi squad.
I see where you are coming from.
I see the Yankees letting Damon and Matsui, and Giambi go.
Giambi goes back to the Bay area… probably San Fran. Gets out of the American league, but goes home.
I see Damon wanting to return to the Red Sox to replace Manny Ramierez
I see Matsui going to the Dodger, Giants, or Padres…
I then see the Yankees going after Carl Crawford to play in LF, and I see them putting a huge bid on Vlad Guerrero, and if they don’t get him… going after the next biggest FA outfielder Available… I see Jackson replacing Cabrera in two years, maybe 3… but I don’t see Tabata in the Yankees picture.
The Yankees have never been a young team. Not in my lifetime, and I sure as heck don’t see it happening in lue of a new billion dollar stadium with a 20 million dollar luxury VIP ramp that is being built for just the Yankees, and their VIPs…. I can’t see them being happy if the rookies stumble, as rookies do. That is why rookies are rookies…
I guess that is why I see Santana as no big deal to the Yankees. 2008 they get him fairly cheap, and in 2009 Matsui, Damon and Giambi are off the books. Clemens is off the books now. So they have no right to complain about money at all. Sorry.
The Mariners are owned by Nintendo… if Santana were willing to go to Seattle… they have better AAA talent than even the Red Sox do… And that is what the Twins want the most is young players that they can have as slaves for the next 4-7 years.
Jones, Clement, Wladimir, and Butler.
When you look at what the report is saying for Bedard… I think that’s a fair asking price when it comes to Johan.
At that point in time do either the Sox or the Yankees up the pot?
I don’t think the Red Sox are too likely to do it, but might just to see if they can get the Yankees to give away the farm as you have so plainly put it.
For those interested in anything related to the Santana trade situation, here’s a superb analysis from Aaron Gleeman:
No one can know, of course, what the Twins are thinking, but my best guess is that they agree with Gleeman that Hughes is the guy they should go after. But I’m thinking they like the secondary Boston guys (Lowrie, Masterson, etc.) better than the secondary NY guys, and are trying to get the Yankees to improve the back end of the deal.
I’m not surprised at the Seattle offer for Bedard, and not surprised that the Twins aren’t as interested. Clement probably can’t stay at catcher, and the Twins don’t want to move their own catcher anyway. Clement will likely play first, and they have no room with Morneau there. Further, I think they very much want a pitcher, and Seattle won’t trade Morrow. So they like the NY and Boston offers better.
Seattle won’t give much more for Santana because Santana’s not worth much more. Bedard won’t be a free agent until 2010, and he’ll probably get somewhere around $7-8M in arbitration, much less than Santana, and he won’t require nearly as much as Santana to sign an extension. Also, they had eerily similar seasons last year. Bedard had a better ERA, and Santana led in WHIP just 1.07 to 1.09. Santana only led strikeouts because Bedard hurt his leg in September. I love Santana, and he’s proven his worth over time, but Bedard might be a better deal.
I have Neon Bible by Arcade Fire, and while I like it, I don’t think it’s as good as its reputation. I’d include Carnavas by Silversun Pickups; The Crane Wife by the Decemberists; In Rainbows by Radiohead; and the new one by Interpol on my list.
I don’t have the latest Radiohead cd for some reason. So I couldn’t add that.
I don’t own any of those cds as I check my list (I’m horribly anal, and have a complete cd catalog).
I like Clement as a catcher, and if that meant moving Mauer… I might look at it. He might be able to play RF/LF if we traded Cuddyer? Mauer has decent speed, and a great arm… I bet it could be done.
Bedard had one great season… does that make him a stud?
I understand with Harren… he has a track record.
Bedard is 28, had one great year, one really decent year, and two middle of the road years.
So did Bedard find it last year, or was it a fluke?
Is he the next Bryn Smith, Juan Nieves, Allen Anderson… a guy that had one really great year, and that was it?
No wonder the Orioles are trying to trade him off. I didn’t realize he was 28 years old.
He’s only a few months younger than Santana… and all Santana has done is been the best pitcher in baseball over the time frame of his career.
roundabout says:
January 7th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
This is a Minnesota paper and No game for Bob Dylan, the favorite son.. Shameful…
Dylan’s last release was in August….of 2006. This was a list for 2007, and on top of that, it wasn’t even La Velle’s list, but one his friend (and may I say a friend with very little taste) put together.
BC-
Bedard having one great year, one really decent year and two middle of the road years is pretty good when comparing him to Silva and $48mil. Maybe Seattle likes “middle of the road” pitchers? At least they are trying which speaks more highly of them than the Indians, Cubs, etc….
Couldn’t help but notice the conspicuous absence of Radiohead and Modest Mouse.
To anybody requesting more Santana news…there isn’t any. Can’t report news that isn’t there.
I have to agree with BC- any list of top albums of 2007 needs to have Undisputed Truth by Brother Ali on it…
I gotta go with Queens of the Stone Age Era Vulgaris
I would love to see Johan traded to the Mets. If he has to be traded, I want him out of the AL! I think Billy is waiting to see if the Mets step up.
ahh geesh Lavelle,
I dont really have an Answer on that one..
Havent been around long enough to be able to say that ive heard all them great songs..
So, I Must say that the White Stripes - Icky Thump goes #1
Yah-hee, icky thump
Who’d-a thunk?
Sittin’ drunk
On a wagon to Mexico
Aint no better way to Travel!!!
Hawk-
I never realized that Bedard was as old as he is, and people are making him out to be something special. He pitches in Baltimore so I didn’t pay enough attention. I knew he wasn’t a rookie, but I didn’t realize he’d been around for 5 years, was 28, and was a mediocre pitcher with one good season.
The M’s are trying to improve… with mediocrity. That’s one way to do it.
I just couldn’t trade the farm for a pitcher that has a crappy track record.
At least Silva was consistant at what he was. And Silva was only overpaid by about 4 million a year.
heres a trade idea…
santana to the mets
reyes to the twins
guerra f-mart to the yankees
nathan to the yankees
cano cabera to the twins
twins get: cano reyes cabera
yankees get: guerra f-mart nathan
mets get: santana
thoughts?
Liondragon: knock it off with the crazy trade proposals. Sheesh.
lion… the endless trade talk is making you delusional.
Why would the Yankees or Mets ever do that trade?
hey guys…
before looking at the amount of players being swapped why dont you accually READ THE PLAYERS!
the yankees get nathan guerra and f-mart for cano and cabrera…
the mets get santana for basically guerra f-mart and reyes…..
everyone is happy
and its very reasonable….
next time.. read the players being traded before saying im in dream land
how much vacation time does len3 get. he just took a week off after the winter meetings and worked a couple weeks now another 2 weeks off? boy does he have a good gig. when he gets back he’ll have to go to florida for the spring. poor guy, what stress!
gobbledygookguy,
ya tell me about it…….
im going to go to the ny blog where their is no such thing as vacation 
lol
Lion,
completely ridiculous. The Mets aren’t giving up Reyes for Santana, in any format. The Yanks aren’t dealing Cano for Santana. How would either of those guys, much less both, end up with the Twins. The Yanks would never give up all of that for stuff they don’t need or want, and not get Santana.
Sorry, just not even close.
I believe in using stats as the basis of analysis, but with pitchers like Bedard you need stats PLUS scouting. Based on that combination there’s every reason to rank Bedard as highly as I did. And he’s far, far better than Silva.
The scouts have said for some time that Bedard has the stuff to be an ace. No one ever said that about Silva. Then look at his strikeout to innings and strikeout to walk ratios. They’re excellent, and have been improving by the year. And statistically, his overall game has been steadily improving, culminating in a dominating year last year. Combine that career path with the peripheral stats, espcially the high strikeouts, and with the scouting reports and you have yourself a genuine ace.
The guys to watch out for are guys like Allan Anderson who don’t have the stuff, the strikeout rates, etc. Those guys can be one year wonders. Historically, guys with the attributes and history of Bedard are NOT one year wonders.
wow! i cant believe you “twins” fans are saying that santana is not worth reyes….
i cant believer you guys are twins fans…
heres a question. why do yankee and mets fans come to this blog and disagree with everything? isnt this a “twins” blog?
When was the last time the Yankees traded with the Mets?
I’ve been a Twins fan since I was nine years old. Santana is worth much more than Reyes on a pure baseball level. But when contract and commitment is taken into account Reyes gets an edge in any trade. I’ve tried to explain the theory a few times in the past couple of days. I wish people would quit looking at baseball trades as being purely about baseball talent and nothing more. Contracts play a HUGE role in trading value.
Considering the Twins budget and business model, which aren’t going to change, they have to trade Santana. And if the rest of the baseball world thought only in terms of raw talent, apart from contracts, they’d make offers on that basis. But no one is doing that.
Josh,
Thanks for the Dylan disc update. But Modern Times was one hellified CD - it deserved to be a top album not only in 2006 but in 2007 and Bobby Zimmerman is a Minny boy.
Next time I write something tongue in cheek, I’ll say so for your benefit 
Until then, Josh: “Don’t follow leaders
Watch the parkin’ meters.”
Roundabout - When I was a kid I was a total Dylan nut. I still am, but the reverence has been a bit clouded by finding out the man isn’t quite as impressive as his music and poetry. In fact, he’s kind of a jerk in many ways. But he’s got the “voice of God” in his head somehow. He even said it wan’t really him writing, but that it all just came to him somehow.
Bedard is a top flight pitcher - among the second tier after the top five or so. He’s been improving each year for the past three seasons. Sometimes, some southpaws take more time to develop. I guess his contract makes him more desireable than Santana, to Seattle. I doubt Bedard is worth as many top prospects as Sanatana.
But if Seattle didn’t overpay for Silva, maybe they could have gotten Santana and Bedard for their top propsects, if that’s the way they are going.
As for Reyes for Santana straight up, it depends on your team needs and what your emphasis. Reyes is a run-scoring machine and defensive gem; Santana is a run stopping machine. Reyes theoretically plays 162 games a season, while Santana plays 35-40. Santana gets ya 20 wins or so; How many does Reyes get ya.
Depends on your needs.
Add economics and Reyes gets that edge, if money is an issue.
Lion Dragon…
your trade proposal Sucked..
Liondragon
I am reading the players in your Trade proposal..
and It still SUCKS!
Dennis,
The lesson is sometimes it’s better that we don’t know everything about our “idols” (who are made of stone and better left at home) and people we admire.
To me Dylan is the best songwriter and his voice adds to his lyrics and is wonderful in many ways - not clean and Bing Crosby-like, but rough and hard for his message.
Dylan always has taken from the poets of yore and blues singers of the 20s, 30s, 40s, as well as people like Hank Williams and Woody
As for religion, Dylan always has been spiritual - his lyrics has been sprinkled with it.. Blowin’ in the Wind is definitive Judaism (asking questions) John Welsey Hardin is old testament.. and He had his new Testament phases before returning to Judaism with Infidel..
He’s a man of mystery. - in essence, a damn good folk-blues-rocker.
Best Trade out there shoulda been with The mets/twins and oakland
twins ship out johan/slowey/casilla
oakland ships out haren/crosby/johnson
mets ship out reyes/mulvey/gomez or F mart/humber
twins get
reyes/haren
mets get johan/crosby/johnson
A’s get slowey/mulvey/gomez or fmart/humber/casilla
or something to that affect..
woulda coulda shoulda proposed a trade scenario like that..
dangit!
I’d throw a little Radiohead - In Rainbows on there.
Where is a Minnesota Timberwolves Blog?
I want to speak my mind on one of them pages for a bit…
i think its absurd that mchale has a JOB..
same with wittman..
and taylor… IM SICK OF IT!!
Roundabout,
After looking at his statistics… there is no way I put Bedard on the 2nd tier.
Santana, Webb, Peavy, Beckett, Sabbathia, Verlander, Halladay, Oswalt, Sheets….
I could go on and on.
At 28, and 1 fantastic season, one good season and three bad seasons the only thing I can agree with is that he has shown improvement each year, but I need another season or two before I’d put him on par with even the 2nd tier star pitchers… the Pettitte’s, Schilling, Bonderman, Willis, Lachey, Kazmir, Harren.
Would I trade for him? sure, but would I give up half as much to get him as I would be willing to get Santana? NO WAY, and that’s at any contract cost…
Because while people complain about his salary demands. 7 years at 140 million dollars or what have you increases the value of the baseball team dramatically… it increases everything… outside of the Yankees and Red Sox who are already at the top of the food chain. Any other team Santana adds value to the franchise.
Marcus - I already mentioned Radiohead in my list! (Actually not really a list, just a group of four I mentioned at the bottom of a Bedard message.)
Roundabout - Very well said about Dylan. I’ve always liked his story songs, like “Stuck Inside of Mobile…” and “Black Diamond Bay” (a masterpiece that no one ever talks about).
mh,
their isnt any timberwolves blogs cause no one watches the wolves…. atleast no one is untill the gm is out of their….
Dennis,
I agree with your analysis on Bedard. Look at his WHIP last year…and the prior 2 years was decent. Plus his AVG against was very low last year and decent previously, way better than Silva.
wait a sec,
your telling me that a 13 win season is a ace now a days? wow has things changed!
mh,
im with you on that one though… mchale should have been fired 5 years ago.. the wolves probably cant even win against duke… (yes college basketball) lol
MH… I’m with you.
McHale could fail at Russian Roulette with a fully loaded automatic weapon.
He’d somehow live!
while bedard may need to have another strong season to be considered a top pitcher, there is no doubt that the guy has talent..
he is easily one in the top 10 if not top 5 for lefties in the game right now..
IMO
BC - In my opinion Bedard ranks right at the tail end of the first tier guys that you list. I do want to see him do it again, but the combo of his stuff, surface stats, peripheral stats, scouting report, etc., convince me he’s very close to belonging on that list.
And he’s much better than Pettitte, Bonderman, or Willis. About the equal of Haren, Schilling, Kazmir and Lackey.
Liondragon - “Wins” are widely regarded as the most misleading of pitcher’s stats. They’re so much a function of run support, luck, defense, etc. You have to look at underlying stats that address his actual pitching skill.
BC,
Franchise value has no value unless you are selling it or borrowing against it.
I doubt if Pohlad plans to do either, although I wish he were selling.
haha
BC beneke and Liondragon
Right on,,
I am a minnesota Sports fan.. Heck, last night i kept checking in on the Gopher Womens Basketball game to see how they were doing..
Oh, and where is a WIld Blog?
Anyone remember the Last time the Wild had a Review in a Hockey Game and Actually Won the Review??
Last nights call was Ridiculous, its Bolony how so many calls go against the wild!
is there any chance that those of us that Blog on here can pool together enough money to buy the twins from Pohlad?
i got 37 cents sittin on my desk
the only time where thw ilds got on the news was when they got 5 goals with the same person…..
Brad Radke was the Twins ace for 12 years.
He won 13 or more games only 3 times.
Things haven’t changed that much.
mh,
lets ask pholad.
sane,
the twins didnt win any world series while radke was their ace…..
liondragon..
zito/mulder/hudson never won a WS either..
doesnt mean they were not an Ace
theirs only such thing as a ace when the team is successful….
the orioles cant even get to a playoff game with a 100 million payroll……
So no team can have an ace until they win a WS?
liondragon.
success in baseball has nothing to do with an ACE
an ACE is determined by wins, losses, era and so forth..
radke was the Ace of the twins staff.
now a rotation of Johan, Beckett, Webb, Peavy, Radke
well Radke is not the Ace..
and in all honesty.. i dont know who the Ace would be.. I guess Johan.. since he has 2 Cy Youngs
Liondragon
your saying Johan is not an Ace..
do you realize that?
Were Cy Young and Christy Mathewson not aces in the years their teams weren’t champions?
That is nonsense.
I checked the majors… you are probably right an easy top 10 lefty in baseball.
There just isn’t that much great lefty pitching.
if we add mchale to go along with santana do you think the sox will up their offer? he is a hero there star player and traded garnett, for a bunch of flat balls, making them an east coast power.
an ace only counts in the playoffs, during the season each game counts the same if santana is pitching or boofett. the #1,2…. is over blown trying to be the genius tony (dwi) larussa. i’m so smart i can tell the difference between a #2 guy and a #3 guy.
dylan is a big twins fan by the way.
I would happily give mchale to Boston.
They deserve him.
mh,
do you think zito is an ace? thats like saying sylva is an ace
Wow. That’s some old people music right there.
We’ll take McHale back as long as you include Marian Gaborik.
no santana is an ace cause he can win 20 games… bedard is not an ace as he hasnt won more then 13… zito won only 11 this year is is not an ace either
scott,
how about walker?
you know….
i bet if the people on this blog teamed up we could be a better team then the wolves….. how sad
Lion, We already have Wes Welker. He is a damn great middle of the field receiver too.
you also have randy moss.. all you had to give up was a 4th rounder…. how sad….
we also got troy williomson for randy moss….. how very very sad…. i would rather have nick punto instead of williomson.. atleast punto can catch a ball lol
Lion, You sound like a cool shit. Nice to talk sports with you.
I agree with you guys on the Wolves. And actually the NBA in general. Nobody cares about it either way. It is a garbage league.
About McHale…
How could anyone be as bad of a GM as this guy has? I mean did he really think that by bringing in a bunch of guys that were terrible as Celtics, that somehow magically they would be good as Wolves? Just because they are young doesn’t mean they are going to “develop”. Even Al Jefferson is nothing special. A good complimentary player on a good team. A 2nd or 3rd best guy on a good team basically.
Here’s hoping Welker, Moss and Brady can lead the Pats to the promise land this year…lol. Probably not the best thing to sat in a Minny forum.
Williamson, Al Jefferson, nothing.
This is what we have to show for Randy Moss, Kevin Garnett, and Big Papi.
Sad indeed….
Yapper, You do realize AJ is only 22, right? Give the guy a chance. He is avg’ing 20+ and 12+.
BC
First off, Bedard had two bad-mediocre seasons (2004 and 2005 - his first two years; you can’t count his .7 innings pitched in 2003). His numbers have steadily improved from those two years into 2006 and 2007. And there is no reason to believe he’s going down hill. In fact, he’s trending toward getting better.
And I am talking right now, as we type back and forth, Bedard is a top flight pitcher, low second tier. I’d take him over Pettitte, Lachey, Willis, Bonderman (who has yet to find his groove) and certainly Schilling (who on the down down side, hence why Buchholz is so important - another rap).
Also take into consideration that Bedard pitches for a lousy baseball team in a decent hitters’ park. You are undervaluing Bedard.
Yapper,
As far as bad GMs, ever hear the name Isiah Thomas?
He wins - hands down
How about this:
LaVelle, Joe C., Sid, Reusse, and a top tier intern at the Strib to ESPN for Olney and a free “Insider” Subscribtion.
roundie you kidding as bad as he is the knicks have won twice as many games as the wolves. lost a few law suits tho.
what are some yankee blogs? Roundabout, you should know a couple.
Gobble,
The difference is I watch the Knicks, not the Wolves, so the sour taste about Thomas’s ballclub is always fresh. lol
We’re terrible and it’s hard to believe there is a worse NBA team out there
Scott, yes he is. And he doesn’t play a lick of defense. Also, he has never played on a team where any games matter.
sorry lavelle, but worst update ever. anyone have espn insider her and wanna give up password.
With Goose Gossage expected to be enshrine in 25 minutes and Jim Rice possibly coming up short, Jayson Stark has some interesting views of the contenders.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof08/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3171509
He makes some good points on Gossage being better than Rivera (noting the changing role of relievers from then to now)
As for Rice, one argument is NL sportswriter didn’t see him play that much and feel if Dave Parker (a better player) isn’t being enshrined, Rice shouldn’t be. Their numbers are close but Parker had more speed, better glove and arm.
On Byleven, he didn’t point out that Bert had 60 shutouts and I don’t know how many complete games. In 20 years, the baseball writers probably will be voting for pitchers who less than 10 shutouts in a career and possibly no complete games or very litte.
Dan,
Stay tuned, I’ll provide you with updates. I can read other people’s blogs and the sports pages of newspapers and sports sites as well as the next guy or gal.
timberwolves are going to have to overpay for talent…
way way way over pay..
im talking $25mil a year for lebron..
another $22mil per year for D Wade
add in around $18 for Marion and keep big Al at a cool $15mil. we should be competetive..
now we need a PG…
chris paul.. id pay him an easy $15mil
Paul, Wade, Bron, Marion, Jefferson..
McCants, Foye, Brewer, Richard, Green, Gomes off the bench..
sounds like the 6th seed to me!
actually here is the the biggest question i have in regards to the timberwolves
Who do you take with the #1 pick..
The ping Pong balls will fall our way..
trust me
so.. do you take Lopez from Stanford?
Beasley from K state? they got size, so you gotta consider them
or do you go flashy..
gordon from indiana, rose from memphis..
or mayo from usc..
i think its a toss up between gordon and rose..
or maybe trade the pick.
Trade down to 4th or 5th..
heck, seattle shipped out ray allen and got the #5 pick, wally, and Delonte West..
i wouldnt mind a scenario like that!
Even though this is a Twins blog, I will say this about the Wolves: if by chance we get the first pick, we HAVE to take a point guard.
Gee, I though La Velle was on vacation the last two weeks. Must be rough. I can’t believe you even get paid for the worthless information you’ve been posting lately. You just copy and paste information from other sites; now you post a top-10 for CDs. When is the last time you even talked to someone who works for the Twins? You must have some great blackmail information on your editor, because no decent editor would put up with the crap you’ve been feeding us.
MH…
You forget with Wittman and McHale
the team still doesn’t make the playoffs.
Who are the newbies for 2009’s HOF induction?
I know Rickey Henderson is a lock 98% kind of lock… greatest leadoff hitter in the history of the game.
It looks like the Goose is the only one to be inducted this year.
Goose was, is not, and shouldn’t be a hall of famer.
He is in because he was a Yankee. He had 4-5 below average years with the White Sox including one as a starter. 4-5 dominating years with the yankees, and then 2-3 years with the Padres, and 8-9 more years of hanging around and getting paid like he was a left handed reliever.
BC: what are you talking about? I thought Jayson Start presented his argument pretty damn well (comparing his numbers to Mo Rivera). He was a closer in a time when closers were coming in for 2-3 inning saves. The guy had GREAT numbers.
People like ES16 don’t quite get how reporting goes.
There’s nothing to report on the Twins front. What is LEN3 supposed to do? Write an update twice a day with “Nothing yet.” “Oh nothing yet.” “I saw Bill Smith, he said nothing’s going on.”
People like you complain when there aren’t any updates, then complain when you get them and there’s no news.
Would you rather LEN3 waste his time and ours rehashing the same Santana talks over and over again? He’s likely just as burned out as we are…if not more.
Look around baseball, the only story worth anyhting is Clemens right now…and that’s got coverage from JoeC (who’s job is ALL of baseball).
It’s called the offseason, get used to it.
yapper, How many 23 (as of a few days ago) play defense in the NBA? Not many.
T, That’s bullcrap. This isn’t a Johan Santana trade watch blog, it’s a Twins blog. LaVelle could talk about how Liriano is coming along or perhaps what youngsters might create a stir at Spring Training. I don’t come here to read about his friend’s crappy top 10 album of the year list. I want to hear something about the Twins. There are thousands of angles to be covered on a team, we have just been complacent with only hearing about Santana. I for one wouldn’t mind hearing about other news on the Twins front.
i think the wolves need a guy who can shoot 3 pointers better then walker….. we got some very good young people from the celtics.. they just need time to develop. i think they will develop and become better then walker so i think we should do this….. since we wont fire mchale we should do this. give mchale to the celtics and give them our 1st round pick. yes they wont take him without us giving them a 1st rounder for taking him LOL
ES16,
If there is no news on the Twins front,
(1) Stand up
(2) Take a deep breath
(3) Walk out your front door and
(4) GET A REAL LIFE!
round about, can u throw out a link for buster’s newest article for me, it would be much appreciated.
What about doing a piece on the Twins top prospects and what the future holds for them?
robert,
the twins have no future 
well they do now i guess.. atleast since terry ryan is gone.. now all we need is pholad to go and we will have a franchise…
and btw scott,
your great to talk with about sports….
you know what your talking about
This is exactly why circulation for the Star Tribune is decreasing - nothing good to read in the daily fishwrap and nothing good to read on their website either. Unless you need the paper to line a birdcage or start a fire, it’s a waste of money. No update is better than a crappy update any day & this is by far the “crappiest” update ever.
Sign Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia , Jason Jennings, Shawn Cha con., bring back Kris Benson as well. Sign them Omar , forget Santana. Offer them a Multi-year a contract extension
GOMets, we don’t want your crappy prospects anyways.
There are plenty of things going on with the Twins. We have players in winter ball. La Velle could write about how they did. Maybe talk to someone in the Twins organization about them. How about interviewing one of the new players? Or maybe he could talk to one of the remaining players from last season and tell us how they feel about the team’s trades. The list goes on and on, but this would require La Velle to pull himself away from video solitaire and daytime talk shows.
LaVelle, put down the sandwich and give us some real news. Christ, and they wonder why the Strib has declining readership. There’s nothing worthwhile to read in it.
the new season of the wire focuses on the decline of the newspaper. best show on tv right now, and the futur of the red star tribune.
Defense has nothing to do with talent or learning. It is all desire. Looks like big all “desires” to get his numbers, nothing else.
He is a good player, I will give you that. But like I said, put him in a meaningful game on a meaningful team, then let’s see what we have.
He has never played a game in the NBA that meant anything.(Does Mike James ring a bell?)
Until he does, I guess I can’t really pass judgement and say he isn’t anything special. But noone else can say that he is great for the same reasons.
Here’s an interesting page I found on the Twins minor league system, I’m sure many of you have seen it before.
http://www.aarongleeman.com/2007_10_28_baseballblog_archive.html#83119782508465697
The Mets acquired Angel Pagan from the Cubbies…maybe this means they are giving themselves more leeway in trading their outfielders such as Gomez or Church? I dont know anymore with all this speculation, but thought it was worth mentioning.
As for the Twolves - Rose from Memphis is my pick for #1…Mayo is too much of a Gilbert Arenas (too selfish, will never play on a contender due to his lack of TEAM leadership)…and i simply think Rose is better than Gordon from Indiana…It would be nice to get an impact big guy, but Beasley plays the same position as a few of our young guys, and no other big guy seems worth taking with the #1 overall pick.
I had ‘Icky Thump’ as my #1 album from ‘07. I feel it was the Stripes best album to date.
The Hives also put out a strong album.
Have fun on your vacation!
I just read MH comment.
We should buy the Twins. Pohland never puts much money in it any way. Any billion dollar bloggers on this site?
Let’s buy em up, Green Bay Packers style. I’ve been saying this for a while. We could put all the money into the team and have a large budget.
thanks Lion.
BC:
The Goose was the most dominating reliever of his era , a time when relievrs threw multiple innings.
He’s HOF worthy for sure.. You might like the idea since you may one day want to argue Joe Nathan deserves to be enshrined.
Here’s what Jayson Stark’s has to say:
Most Likely To Get Elected Division
1. Goose Gossage
Gossage
Mark it down. This is going to be his year. Finally.
Of all the candidates on last year’s ballot, the Goose was the only one to take a major leap. Amazingly, the guy hadn’t thrown a single pitch in 13 years, but he still got 52 more votes than he’d received the year before, pole-vaulting him to within 21 votes of election. Nobody has ever come that close and not made it. So this looks like the year.
Well, it’s about frigging time.
I’m going to unfurl this rant one final time: Goose Gossage was the most dominating closer ever. Ever. And I don’t care who else you want to throw up there against him. Go right ahead. Want to take Mariano Rivera? Great. Let’s compare them.
Stacking up save totals doesn’t work, because Gossage was pitching in a time when managers were mysteriously using their closers in an attempt to (gasp) win games, as opposed to just helping them pile up save totals. So let’s toss out saves and stack up Rivera’s 11 full seasons as a closer versus the Goose’s first 11 full seasons as a closer.
Want to pick a category? Be my guest. ERA? Gossage 2.21, Rivera 2.35. Strikeouts? Goose 8.54 whiffs per 9 innings, Rivera 8.09. Unhittability? Gossage 6.59 hits per 9 innings, Rivera 7.17.
So … any more questions? And remember, the Goose was unleashing all that domination even though he was routinely being asked to pitch 100 to 141 innings (yep, 141) a year.
Then why did it take nine elections for voters to figure out this was a Hall of Famer they were looking at? Boy, ya got me. That’s the biggest mystery since the Dead Se
robert,
I tried to post some yankee and red sox blogs for you to check out, but site says Your comment is awaiting moderation. I guess that means No lol
Sweet
looks like i got Dan and Robert going in on buying the twins with me..
you guys got more then 37 cents?
im sure i could round up $1
how much is the twins Franchise worth anyways?
Are we looking at 4 or 5 hundred million?!?!
450,000,000??
Pocket Change!
I am starting to agree with those finding the posts not that great. Although it appears that Santan news is dead, it is true that reports on WinterLeague reports, interviews, etc, could be done. Lavelle seems to be good man, but I think there are certaninly other things to write about besides Santana.
Lets see I have 50 dollars in my wallet. Any one have a couple million dollars lying around?
Roundabout:
They elected Gossage to the Hall of Fame today but ignored Jack Morris=the pitcher of the greatest pitching performance in all of Major League History! How can that be???????
roundabout, you have insider dont you, any thing note worthy in busters blog today?
Kenny Rogers,
One, you won’t be enshrined I am not sure what the Goose has to do with Jack Morris.
The sportswriters view Morris is a tweener and yes Catfish Hunter made it. But his equals or near equals like Luis Tiant and Bert Blyleven haven’t. Sometimes it’s a crapshort.
Look, Kirby Pluckett made it, but Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Don Mattingly and Dave Parker have come up short. Hard to make a case that Kirby was superior to those players.
And I don’t know what “greatest pitching performance you are referring for Morris, but it would belong to Don Larsen, he of the perfect game in game 6 of the 1956 World Series. That’s hard to beat.
IMO The Twins will make the Johan trade late next week. The timing will be perfect going into TwinsFest. Interest will be high & Twins will be in the headlines instead of just how much “juice” the rocket was using. More interest, more ticket sales. It’s all about the “Benjamins” with the Pohlads. This will also allow them about a month to trade Nathan before Spring Training starts. Nothing will happen this week. Omar is in Israel, so Met’s are not really available this week. IMO, Mets are most likely trade partner. Don’t make a super team in AL East. Nothing this week, but it is still fun to be a Twi’s fan this off season. The big question is:…….Will Bill Smith RUIN LENIII’s vacation?
The year:1991
The game: GAME SEVEN (two words=volumes)
Number of Innings:10
Runs Allowed:Zero,zip,nada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kirby had as good of game 6 as my hometown idol Larsen. It was game six,
not GAME SEVEN! Nothing in sports says as much as the words GAME SEVEN!
What a lame list
I would not buy any of them
wow we have some great hitting prospects that are 19 20 years old… just in time for the new ballpark!
Dang, I shoulda called Vegas and put a Wager on the Wolves..
Something tells me they get a V-I-C-T-O-R-Y tonight!
Kenny,
Two words; PERFECT GAME!!!!
Never been duplicated..
Coco
Where did you see Oscar Minaya is in Israel?
Omar is going Alliyah!
You can’t depend on this blog as a source of information..
Here you go, Dan:
Met GM Omar Minaya goes distance to bring back Duaner Sanchez
BY ANTHONY McCARRON
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Tuesday, January 8th 2008
Half a wolrd away from his office at Shea, in between visits to the old section of Jerusalem and a sports clinic to foster harmony between Israeli and Palestinian kids, Omar Minaya has still found time to conduct the Mets’ offseason business.
“My phone works here,” Minaya said with a chuckle yesterday in a telephone interview from a bus in the middle of a Jerusalem traffic jam. “God bless technology. I’ve checked in with some general managers and I’ve talked to my scouts and my assistant, John Ricco. Even though I’m here, I’ll be on the phone, too, trying to improve our team.”
The Mets got some business done Monday, announcing they had signed reliever Duaner Sanchez to a one-year contract worth $850,000. Sanchez missed all of last season with a broken bone in his shoulder. The Mets also signed eight others to minor-league deals and invited them to spring training.
Minaya, who spent time last winter in Ghana on a trip to promote baseball, has joined agent Arn Tellem and other sports personalities such as former Chicago Bull B.J. Armstrong on an eight-day trip to Israel to “bring Palestinian and Israeli kids together and really encourage unity and peace,” Minaya said.
“For me to come and do this, it’s fun and something I believe in. Also, I’ve always been curious about the area, a lot of the spiritual meaning of the area. That’s always been something that’s interested me.
“We went to the (Yad Vashem) Holocaust Museum. We went to the old city of Jerusalem and have gone to the Christian quarters and we’re going to the Jewish quarters in the next day or so. We’ve spent some time doing a basketball clinic, mostly promoting peace with the Palestinian and Israeli kids.”
Minaya left New York on Saturday and said he planned to return at the end of the week. The group also will visit the Dead Sea and Tel Aviv and was scheduled to meet with president Shimon Peres and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, among other dignitaries.
Tellem, who has made similar visits in the past, organized the trip along with Sharon Tzur, the founder of Media Watch International, a nonprofit group, and the trip is run in part by the Peres Peace Center.
A pro baseball league finished its inaugural season in Israel last year and while the sport might be gaining popularity, Minaya, for one, is no household name there, though he runs one of the game’s most visible franchises.
“The kids don’t know me, but other people do,” Minaya said. “The kids are curious about baseball, they ask about it. I tell them about it. For me, this is another way of promoting baseball and the Mets.”
SIGNS: The Mets announced minor-league pacts for RHPs Juan Padilla, Joselo Diaz and Andy Cavazos, infielders Anderson Machado and Fernando Tatis, catchers Robinson Cancel and Salomon Manriquez and LHP Ryan Cullen.
MH:
Wolves game not over yet. They have a twelve point lead in the third quarter. Should hold on and coast to another victory!
Is Fernando Tatis that the mets signed an ex-cardinal?
GREATEST PERFORMANCE
Monctonvike says:
January 8th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Jack Morris
‘56- there weren’t as many steroids true but there wern’t as many african americans playing ball either
TWOLVES VICTORY!!!!!!!
It’s like playing the lottery..
you expect to Lose, but when you win.. its soo very very nice!
haha
we got 5..
anyone see us doubling that total?
Kenny Rogers:
Lets count the Hall of Famers Don Larsen pitch to that day:
Jack Roosevelt Robinson
Edwin Donald Snider aka Duke - (hit of most homeruns in the majors during the 1950s
Roy Campy Campanella (top 3 catcher of all time)
Harold Peewee Reese.
That’s four Hall of Famers, plus near Hall of Famer Gil Hodges at first base, and sold, 300 hitting, 192-homerun hitter Carl Furillo, an excellent outfielder for his time.
Junior Gilliam was a tough out.
Now, Jack Morris didn’t face a single Hall of Famer, let alone 4.. Not a single Brave on that team was as good a hitter as Gil Hodges. (Chipper Jones didn’t even play that game).
Morris pitched a great game but it wasn’t a perfect game against a team of future hall of famers.
mh,
not untill mchame is gone….
i say 8 wins by season end……
how very very very very sad
but it was game seven
Are the Mets really going to push hard for Santana? (I hope so).
http://sheanation.blogspot.com/2008/01/return-of-e-mail-bag-stockpiling.html
Old Chucky Knoblauch recieved- ready for this?- 1 vote. 1 VOTE!!! LOLOL!!!
Roundabout… A different era… how many of those players not named Jackie Robinson could have played in today’s game without steroids?
Would anyone like to read a funny little rant on the Timberwolves?
Go the the Wolves blog on here…
like most of my posts it’s a little long, but I think you will laugh.
Roundabout… how’s it going tonight?
BC:
All is well. Just home from work and I am watching Analyze This - very funny movie.
Duke Snider could play today; so could Campy. Don Newcombe could pitch anytime, like Satchel Spahn..
Peewee and Scooter would have been smaller - Freddy Patek types.
The game has not changed that much. The ball and bat. One player pitches the ball and the hitter hits the ball. When it’s hit the fielders try to catch the ball And we still run bases. lol
Can anyone handle a joke?
I mean I have a joke I want to tell…
hello?
TK(2): If I recall my HoF Voting procedures…that 1 votes essentially means he is booted off the ballot.
Am I correct? I seem to recall there being a minimum percentages of votes required to remain on the ballot the following year (Mark McGuire received it last year I think)
To Robert and ES16:
Interviews and reports such as you suggested don’t spring up overnight. They require research, lining up schedules, etc.
LEN3 was on vacation over the holidays (which apparently is a new concept to some people around here), which means he wouldn’t have been working (that’ why it’s called vacation).
He may be the Trib Twins guy, but I doubt he can just call up the Twins players when he feels like it and churn out an interview or analysis a day.
Those players have lives outside of baseball as well. They’re not going to drop everything and come running just because LEN3 needs to fill some read-imposed quota.
Roundabout,
Please don’t EVER come to a Twins blog and say things like Puckett didn’t deserve to make it to the hall.
He was a god in Minnesota. A winner through and through. Sometimes numbers don’t tell the whole story. Kirby won 2 titles on teams that really shouldn’t have won them. He came up big when he had to.
I agree some of those others may have better numbers, but Puckett was a special player and I doubt you will ever convince anyone that he doesn’t belong.
BC.
i dont know how to get into the Twolves Blog.. but i would love to see the rant..
Yanks wont give Johan more then a 5 year deal? .. reported on mlbtraderumors.com
wow, that throws a wrench into the whole deal.. looks like the Yankees talked their way out of the trade after all! Really no surprise though.. apparently people from New York have issues with shutting they d*mn mouth..
just kidding roundabout.. its only hank that wont shut it..
Dang, Anyone read the Article on the Eden Prairie HS Kids and Facebook?
I remember those days! WE had a HUGE New Years party in HS and one of the Teachers daughters showed up.. Then she reported us all to the Principal..
pretty comical.. since everyone knows she is the one who turned us in! haha
but yea, High School kids will always drink.. can’t stop, won’t stop..
i feel bad for the poor individual who turned in the photos.. if its anything like my situation.. the girl will go from being popular and having friends, to being a school b*tch.. and thats a tough way to go!
Also
looks like the Mariners are putting together a good package for Bedard..
Anyone else here believe that the Mariners Are in the running for Johan??
It’s always reported that Its just the Mets, Sox, and Yanks trying to trade for Johan, but i think it would be just crazy if seattle would pony up for bedard, but not johan..
So, IMHO, seattle probably IS still in the running for Johan
Hank has now stated that the Yankees won’t give Santana more than 5 year extension. And talks with the Red Sox are dormant. (with the Red Sox being notorious for refusing to give long-term contracts, in the Bill James era). Does this look to anyone else like the Twins’ chances of signing Johan to an extension just went up?
Sorry, I skimmed the comments and saw “TWolves” and assumed there was no discussion of Santana in the MH comments.
I also think Seattle could be a player, still…Bavasi says that Morrow isn’t untouchable. Problem is, we don’t need Clement. But Jones-Morrow-Triunfel-Clement would be a good trade.
AM i agree
I dont really see the mariners having that stud pitching prospect that we want, but they could offer some good talent! no doubt about that..
Good. If noone will give him more than 5 years. The Twins will resign him.
5 years 110 mill. Lets do it. Keep the best pitcher in baseball.
Maybe the days of idiotic contracts are starting their downhill slide.
no one likes to talk anymore?
well if roberts is really on the market lets go for him…. he would be the ideal lead off hitter we need….
liondragon
as much as i think roberts would be able to help the twins..
we do not need another infielder
mh,
we need a lead off hitter though…. that would be the ideal one for lead off.. i dont wanna waste our center field spot and take speed from it instead of filling hunters hole… that would be like saying that we did nothing this offseason to get more run support…
its true that we need a leadoff hitter,
but if the twins truley were in the market for a 2B, i highly doubt we would shell out the players for roberts.
and even tho the signings of everett and lamb have nothing to do with second base,
i highly doubt we need lamb, everett, punto, casilla, harris, and roberts..
harris is our 2b
mh,
how about nathan for roberts? stright up?
staight*
baltimore would never do that..
they have a dominant closer already..
whos their closer?
ray isnt that good….. accually.. he really isnt that good….. no wonder why they lose so many games… they need to get nathan and we need roberts
MH and other Timberwolves fans…
I do this because I want more people over there complaining, and starting a riot… a one man riot is easily stopped.
http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/wolves/?p=46#comments
It was so long that I broke it up, and saved it in case I got one of those SLOW DOWN PARTNER freaking messages that I think would have probably sent me through the roof. The last little bit of it may be offensive to some… which always makes me know that I got my point across… I hate apathy, and if I upset someone… it’s not the nicest way to do it, but I remind them that they are still alive, and that there is more to it than just breathing.
MH…
If I told you about some of the things that went on at parties when I was in high school you would call me a liar, tell me I was exagerating, and think I stole some of the script edits from Animal House.
So yeah I read that story… that’s hilarious. Technology bites the little brats in the butt. “stupid is as stupid does” is a right of passage… combining it with technology… and big brother will treat you like the prettiest altar boy in the room.
i think Ray is a more then Adequate closer.. kid had 33 saves last year with a 2.73 era. this year he had injuries..
they dont need nathan..
BC
NICE!.. i gotta get me into that twolves blog and chat them up a bit,,
that was a good article… nice joke to top it off.
and yea.. if marko would stay healthy, and play a ecent PG.. perhaps we could package him and hmm smith in a trade…
dont get me wrong, smith is alright.. but how man 6′6 power forwards does a team need? ZERO.. that is your answer..
i agree that we should have selected Gray.. he is nothing special, but he gives us Size and an average center..
we have no size on this team, and we will again be looking at drafting a PG in the top 3, simply because you cannot pass up gordon, rose, mayo..
mccants showed some game last night.. which was good to see.. kids really helping my fantasy basketball team!!
anyways.. High School Parties? good times!! hahaha …
now days we just sit at the bar and when its time to leave, the bartender says “How about one for the ditch?”
Those were the days in my early 20’s. I have not closed a bar in 10 years. I sometimes wonder if thats where some of the rage comes from in some of my writing… I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, no chewing tobacco, and no illegal drugs. Sports and music are my only real outlets like that, and I get savage at times… like the joke.
Which I did try to find Kevin McHale’s email, and send directly to him last night.
So that’s the scariest part I guess. I’m 100% sober at all times when I get that worked up.
a team that needs a closer is the ATL
and boy would i love to get yunel escobar..
except.. where would we put him?
another problem is they just got rid of renterria.. so they will keep yunel..
do they have any decent CF options?? other then francouer, i think their outfield is very weak..
so no, i think that rules out the ATL and joe Nathan
I read somewhere that the Red Sox would go 7 years with Santana.
Yapper
All I said one would be hard pressed to make a case that Kirby Pluckett was a superior player than Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Don Mattingly and Dave Parker -all of whom have not made the hall. Kirby was tweener — yes or no..
roundabout
what is your take on the whole Johan deal..
Do you think the Yanks are doing way to much talking?
If anything the yanks should be trying to drive up the price for the Sox, but now reports say they wont go past 5 years.. well that certainly does not drive up the price for boston..
i think the yanks are digging their own hole in this matter… thats just my opinion though
Imagine Boston with Johan, Beckett, Schilling, Dice K, Wakefield, Lester, Or Bucholtz..
they can do a 6 man rotation and give pitchers the rest they need..
that is scary if your a Yankee Fan
Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, Hughes, Kennedy, Joba.. its a good rotation… but its way to old, and way to young.. wang is the only middle of the road guy..
it comes down to
beckett, johan, lester, bucholtz, dice k
vs
hughes, joba, kennedy, wang, ??? horne?
for the next 5-7 years..
take your pick..
MH,
I think the Yankee offer is what it is.
I think the Yanks are split on Johan.
Cashman wants to roll with the young players - with Hughes especially. But Hank Steinbrenner (and I assume others) believe givign up Hughes, Melky etc is worth the price (probably is) for Santana and Santana would put the Yanks back over the top.
I think Steinbrenner is just being honest; he doesn’t really know yet how to say no comment. Has he said anything overtly insulting? He believes the Yanks offer is the best (I guess he has to believe that) and the Twins management likes it the best.
I think from the Twins point, their favorite players are Hughes and Ellsbury. The Twins can’t get a combo Ellsbury-top young pitching prospect from the Red Sox (lester and/or Buchholz). So the Yank offer including combo Hughes-Melky stands out. It seems the Twins want better secondary prospect to make up for not getting Ellsbury, the leadoff hitter. And Yanks have not offered their top tier, settling on Marquis and the other kid.
So we all wait for the Twins to make an offer for acceptance, I suppose.
I doubt Seattle is jumping in.
I don’t know the Mets players that well
What do you think that if we trade with the Mets that Heilman be included in the deal. With alot of the proposals thrown out here regarding the Mets, most are all prospects or have limited experience. Looking at past trades, of this type that the Twins have made, they have included atleast one with multiple years of experience.
Now, looking at his stats they are very similar to Nathan’s when we traded for him…infact there better against Lefty’s…more balanced. Also, he’s the same age as Nathan was at the time of that trade.
Heilman would be come are closer allowing us to trade Nathan…and save more $ for future signings
We could trade Nathan for a guy like DeJesus (like Brett mentioned)…good fielding high OBP CF. Though KC may already have an up and coming closer (Soria)? And I know someone will bring up the fact that KC is in are division,but I thought the Twins have traded with them before… awhile back?
I love the Twins, but it is the middle of January for crying out loud. Johan, Johan, Johan… There is no news until he is traded in my opinion.
My cd picks
1- Arcade Fire - Neon Bible
2- Radiohead - In Rainbows
3- The Shins - wincing the night away
4- Wilco - Sky blue sky
5- Kanye West - Graduation
5-
MH
Atlanta, Houston, Chicago Cubs, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa (Gagne hasn’t done squat since they put the ban on steroids), those teams all need or are looking to upgrade at closer.
colombo.
the twins will not trade nathan within the division..
uness of course.. its nathan for the kid known as “Ladys love Grady”
then i say Done and Done..
you give me grady, i give you nathan.. and lets never speak again..
perhaps id take the kid called granderson too.. a guy with 20hr, 20 doubles, 20 triples, 20 Sb.. is pretty good in my book
for the guy that mentioned heilman..
i think there is a good chance that the twins would get him if they trade with the mets..
i also believe that it would be johan/rincon in that scenario too..
ok nathan for upton lets do it !
MH,
Would Heilman make a good closer?
lets do rincon punto and boof for that left handed outfielder from tampa
btw,
bc,
the rays dont need a closer anymore….
they just got a really good one from free agency
Im not sure if heilman would make a good closer..
he seems to have decent stuff..
i would bet that the twins would try him at closer…
Who is the twins closer if nathan were to be traded?
Neshek? or Crain??
Heilman wants to be a starter - and he hasn’t been quiet about that. That’s the problem he has with the Mets manager, Willie Randolph, whose attitude is shut up and relieve when I call for you
Crain was being groomed to close, but that looks like a pipe dream right now with the significant injury and surgery he had last season. There seems to be a persistent reluctance in the organization to make Neshek a closer. Many think Heilman could be a good closer. The Twins have liked him for some time. If there’s a Mets deal, odds are good he’d be in it.
Crain’s coming back from injury. Maybe Neshek though.
Why on earth would we want Neshek as a closer? We need him for the 7th and 8th when the starter leaves with a one run lead and two men on base. I would rather have someone like Crain to work the complete 9th.
JT,
That’s good to here that the Twins are interested in him…if they trade with the Mets.
Robert…
I like the way you think on that issue.
You need to remember we have Ron Gardenhire as the manager.
So as Jack Nicholson said… think like a man, and then throw away logic and reason.
lion.
The Rays paid Gagne 10 million a year to be their closer.
He isn’t worth that kind of money, and is living off of his reputation of being great from when he was on steroids with the dodgers, and one decent year in Texas. He was a failure in Boston, and he’s often injured.
If the Devil Rays expect to contend for a 500 record they need a better closer.
Roundabout, if he was a tweener, then why did he go in his first ballot. Not many guys are able to do that. Doesn’t sound like the makings of a tweener to me.
Also, he played CF and was great there defensively also. Probably the most important defensive postition in baseball.
round about, your the man as always, which do u think come first, bedard or santana trade?
I thought the Brewers signed Gagne.
Yapper,
Kirby was a personality, too, as well as a good player. He also had an eye injury, if I am not mistaken.
Look at his numbers and compare them to Jim Rice, Dave Parker, Andre Dawson, and Don Mattingly.
And then tell me how Kirby’s numbers are better than the other guys - cause they are not in most cases.
I am not taking anything away from Kirby Puckett as a player.
You can set penthouse standards for the Hall of Fame: Mantle, Mays, Williams, Ruth etc… You can set luxury condo standards. Berra, Bench, Banks, Gywnn, Yaz, Clemente .. Then you have the lower end apartments Kirby, Lou Brock Cepeda, Fisk,..
It gets arbitrary.
Then you got the mistakes: Ralph Kiner, Bill Mazaroski.
With what group of Hall of Famers do you rank Kirby…
Dan,
Looks like Bedard is real close to completion.. Orioles are holding a fire sale.. Brian Roberts is on the cups of being traded as well..
Orioles could become the least pleasant team to watch this season?
Who do you want to watch Cabrera pitch? Corey Patterson run? It’s going to be ugly for Melvin Mora….
Dan at work and BC,
Dan your right he signed with the Brewers.
Puckett was a no-brainer for the HOF. Don’t waste your breath, yapper. You are correct and should just leave it at that. Devote your energy to other discussions. This next month should be an interesting one for the Twins, don’t you think? Just out of curiosity, as the roster is currently comprised, do you guys think the club is better now than it was on opening day ‘07? Personally, I think they are 5 or 6 games better than they were last year, even with a gaping hole in CF, but that is not going to be anywhere near enough in this division.
Oh, and Springsteen’s Magic is a great CD. Good pick.
I guess I really don’t know. He’s definitely not in that top category. Just know that he was a way better player than you are making him out to be. You also aren’t taking the importance of centerfield defense. Most centerfielders did not hit and play defense the way Puck did. He was special, as a centerfielder. He killed in the playoffs, was a gold glove centerfielder, and if not for his injury, would have made the 3000 hit club no problem.
i am finding it really hard to believe that Seattle would go hard after Bedard and not atleast present and Offer For Johan..
There is something Fishy going on here
Yapper,
No I am not degrading Kirby at all. I think he was great, fun to watch and a hall of famer.
I am just comparing him to those who have not gotten in and may have better numbers, in some cases.
You are thinking too much like a fan.
Example, If I say Mantle was better than Mays, does that mean Mays was bad?
No, two great players.
Kirby was a great player, so were Dave Parker, Andre Dawson, Jim Rice (hitter) and Mattingly. I am a Yankee fan and we take a blood oath for Donnie Baseball, but he’s not a sure-fire Hall of Famer. He falls short/ He also was injured.
Here compare Mattingly and Kirby. Tell me the difference (pure baseball, not fan love)
Go Baseball reference (this site won’t let me post the links) and compare Kirby and Donnie
“i am finding it really hard to believe that Seattle would go hard after Bedard and not atleast present and Offer For Johan..”
Why? He’s still under contract for two years (to Santana’s one), and probably won’t demand a 20+ mil per year deal like Santana will…and I would still categorize him as a semi-elite pitcher.
MH,
If you are going to give up your top prospects for lesser pitcher, when you could try for the best.
I would guess Santana’s price tag - 7 years specifically might scare off Seattle.
Bedard comes cheaper..
As a Twin Fan, Im sure there is a Player that Both Twins and Yankee Fans Can agree About..
Chuck Knoblock is NOT A HALL OF FAMER.
Agreed?
MH,
If only he could throw accurately to second base LOL
Agreed…
Bedard is Cheaper, no doubt about it.
but hasnt he had some injury issues?? atleast a few of them?
I dont know.. I guess it may not be as Fishy as i would like to believe, but if bedard is still a semi elite pitcher in a few years, you have to believe he will command 16-20/year atleast on the open market..
its a tough call..
give up top talent for a chance at bedard being a stud, or give up top tier talent for a 2 time cy young winner and then pay him $150mil..
But i agree with an earlier comment from Yapper..
if The yankees are serious about not wanting to give Johan more then 5 years, I wonder if that increases the Chances that Johan resigns with the twins..
You’re right, it is a very tough call. Bedard does not have the proven track record Santana does, but I imagine front-office types discuss his “elite potential” ad nauseum; i.e. he has the “stuff” to be an elite pitcher.
I think a significant portion of the issue with Santana is the money issue (the contract he WILL command on the open market). Someone previously alluded to a hopeful downshift in outrageous contracts. Unfortunately, while MLB revenues keep streaming in, there will always be one a-hole GM that will give a player an outrageous contract (think Sabean with Zito last year; Hicks with A-Rod in 2000)…
But, just my opinion.
Boneyard.
Magic is not one of Springsteen’s best cds by any means. Nebraska, Darkness on the Edge of Town… those were killer. The Rising was way better than this one. I’m a life long fan, and other than it being amazing live… this album falls flat on the cd.
If the Twins were unfortunate and could not pull off a trade that they liked with Santana, and ended up losing him in Free Agency for crappy 1st round picks.
I would just think it hilarious if a team like Pittsburgh offered Santana 3-4 million a year more than the Yankees and watch Santana go to Pittsburgh just to prove once and for all it’s not Red Sox or Yankees Mystique that has anything to do with it… it’s 100% Yankees Capital… it’s all about the money.
Then there’s Greetings from Asbury Park, The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle, and Born to Run.
Born in the USA and The Ghost of Tom Joab aint nothing to ignore, either.
No doubt about that, There always will be a GM that shells out a ridiculous amount of money.. So i expect that trend to Continue..
I personally would really like to see the twins up their offer to 5 years 100mil..
if johan turns that down, he is crazy.. he would be set at 6 years 114mil with this season included..
just a thought. but id like the team to offer it to him
I’d like the Twins to retain Santana as well…unfortunately, I just don’t see it happening. I think the Twins CAN afford Santana; I just don’t think they WANT to pay him (we’ve discussed Pohlad to no end, no need to rehash here).
Personally, I like the Hughes deal. I think that’s the key right there. But, with that said, I like the Ellsbury, Lowrie, et al deal as well. I’m torn…plus I think the Mets could throw a boatload of prospects at us…
Roundabout, I will agree, they have similiar numbers. However, compare Mattingly’s stats to that of any “good” first baseman. He sits squarely in the middle of that pack.
Now go and compare Puckett’s stats to those of other “good” centerfielders. Then you will see the cream rise to the top.
Both were perrenial gold glove winners, but Puckett at a position were defense is highly regarded and in fact needed, even moreso than offense. Mattingly played a position long known for sticking your worst fielding, slowest player that could swing the bat.
By the way, Mattingly was one of my favorite players too.
TA
completely agreed about the trades..
why not package nathan/johan in a block buster..
heck, the marlins did it..
johan/nathan/everett
reyes, mulvey, f mart, pelfrey, humber, guerra, heilman, gomez
yup.. all of them
MH, I agree. Lets offer to extend him 5 more years at 20 or 22 per and see what he says.
If he turns that down, then it is obvious he really doesn’t want to play for the Twins at which point we go ahead and trade him for the best deal out there.
Yapper: I had a great Mattingly baseball card collection growing up; he was one of my favorite players as well…I would love to see him in the HoF as well as Blyleven, Morris, Dale Murphy, and Dave Parker. Realistically, I know that only Bert has any shot of making Coop.
I don’t think we can trade Everett right after signing him to a contract. I think we have to wait until May, June, or July. Not sure though…
I wish i could be GM for a Week..
just to see how possible some of my trade scenario’s are..
id like to call up Omar, Hank, and Theo and say.. Hey, How about Johan and Nathan..
what can do you for us..
ya know?!?!
then maybe i will stop thinking about ridiculous trade scenario’s!
Hi Guys, now that the spanks aren’t going to offer Santana more than 5 years it looks like it’s either the Sox offer is Lester, Crisp, Masterson and Lowrie or the Mets offer. Which do you guys prefer? I am almost positive Ellsbury is off the table now as well.
Your thoughts?
By waiting, IMO, Smith is screwing this up.
Scott, even though it has been reported that the Yankees will only give him 5, I am convinced this is just a ploy by the dink Steinbrenner to decrease Johan’s value.
Actually, if somehow any of the offers that are on the table decrease, I would expect the Twins to file a complaint against the Yankees for tampering. What Hank has been getting away with lately has been BS.
Scott
Who are the Players the Mets are Actually Offering?? Anyone have any idea’s??
And if its gomez, martines, mulvey, pelfrey, humber, guerra, heilman..
i think we should ship out johan/rincon
for heilman, martinez, mulvey, guerra, pelfrey
i want atleast 5 of them
MH: we don’t want your trade scenarios getting ridiculous as Liondragon’s 
I see us actually holding Nathan until the trade deadline, when relievers are really in demand for those clubs looking to make a pennant run…but again, that’s just my opinion.
I wouldnt mind trading Nathan at the Deadline..
i can see him having significant value at that point as well..
what did the rangers get for gange??
Some murphy kid and a couple other prospects??
I do not want to see another Luis castillo trade.. where we get a couple low minor league players..
how are them kids doing anyways?
MH is exactly right, if we wait until the deadline to trade Nathan we won’t get anything but a couple of low level prospects a la Luis Castillo. If he had a longer contract it would be a different story though.
Robert: how do you know that?
Because this is the last year of his contract. No team is stupid enough to give up good prospects for a couple months of Joe Nathan.
Yapper, Why is it that the Twins haven’t filed tampering against the Spanks already? Just curious of your thoughts.
But if we traded him this offseason it would be under the assumption that the team getting him would negotiate a contract extention for him
That Butera kid is a really good defensive catcher and his prospect status is that someday he will make a good minor league bullpen catcher/1st base coach
The other kid I don’t even remember his name, but I do know he hit a bunch of homers right after we got him.
Funny how the first post I try to make all day says “slow down cowboy”. What’s up with that?
I have read in several places that the Cubs have contacted the Twins about Joe Nathan, but that the Twins are not doing anything at all until the Santana situation is cleared up.
MH, I don’t know how familiar you are with Facebook…but it’s quite likely one of the kids posting photos from the party that night was dumb enough to put them in a public pictures folder vs. one that was restricted to only friends.
Well I almost think that trading Nathan first would be the better move because then we will know what we stil need, if anything, in a trade for Santana. If we could get Pie I would say trade Santana to the Mets for their prospects, If not I’d flip a coin to choose between the Hughes/Ellsbury deals.
Scott, I think it is because we are still in negotiations with them. Don’t want to piss them off, when we are still trying to get them to give up more to us. They are most likely leading the way as far as trade offers go.
I am not certain they will, I shouldn’t have said that. But if by Steinbrenner running his mouth Johan’s trade value goes down? Then I think we have a legitimate case.
Robert.
I again would love to get Pie here. I think he would solve the problem in CF for a while as well.
The guy that I really want out of the Red Sox deal though is Lowrie. I really think he as a Nomar Garciaparra kind of quality to him. He’s not a great great fielder, but he’s a future 3rd hitter in a line up that needs a 3 hitter like Christians need Christ. Mauer is a leadoff hitter, a number 2 hitter, or a number 6-7 hitter. He is not a number 3 hitter.
Steinbrenner’s comments should increase Johan’s trade value by lowering the salary investment that trade partners would have to make.
The Twins and other trade partners should pay Hank to keep tampering in that manner.
Is Lowrie really that good BC?
I guess I didn’t know that, but have been hearing it the last couple weeks. If so, you would think that the Red Sox deal with Elly, Lowrie, Masterson, + prospect, blows the others away.
Actually, for as much complaining as people do about Mauer as a 3 hitter. He sits about middle of the pack when compared to other 3 hitters in the league.
I do agree though, he would make a perfect #2 hitter.
I would like for the betterment of the league that now that the Players Union and the owners have opened up the collective bargaining agreement that they put in the idea of limitting contracts to 5 year max. You cannot keep a minor leaguer for 5 years without exposing them to free agency/rule 5 and what not.
A player should not be allowed to do what Saberhagen did with the Royals back in 1989… which would be a steal now… but the Royals have to pay him like 500K every other year for the rest of his life. I haven’t seen the contract, so maybe when he was traded to the Mets they picked it up, or bought it out somehow… but back in the 80’s Saberhagen signed the worst contract in baseball history. Now we have Arod’s contract.
It’s not going to get any better, and I really think that if the NBA is going ot shut down over KG’s initial contract…. it’s time to start looking at length of service contracts… We can’t impede with free trade, and they will never agree to a salary cap, so a contract length provision needs to be adopted, and ratified. It shouldn’t be a huge problem for MLB, and the players… 1% of the players are good enough to demand something like that. It would just be nice to see them have to give on something just once.
Sane, you could look at it that way, or you could look at it as:
“Hey, the Yankees won’t give him more than 5 years, Johan won’t waive his no-trade clause for that. Now we can lower our offer because we are willing to give him 6 or 7.”
There are two ways of looking at it.
Lowrie could definately grow into a good player… in a few years. He is good in the minors but struggled in the AFL this year. I don’t know if we know enough about him yet to compare him to Garciaparra. I do agree that Mauer is not a number 3 hitter, I like him in the 2 hole. I’m going to get a bunch of crap for this but I think Mauer will eventually (the sooner the better) have to be moved to 3B.
Yapper. He’s still really young, and he has some room to grow, but his plate coverage is amazing, and his eye at the plate is the best in their entire minor leagues… he knows how to take a walk, and I see him if he came up right now out of AA ball as a 30 double and 12 homer guy at SS with about 12 errors (because he couldn’t get to the balls that Bartlett could, but instead of 265… he hits .290 with a .375 onbase percentage.
Lowrie is the team’s 3rd best prospect, and he had a lousy Fall League offensively, and at the plate, but what player has not had 20-30 lousy at bats? A week or two slump happens to every single player in the history of baseball… save 2. Pete Rose and Joe DiMaggio. Even Williams had to have had a stretch where he was 3-29, 4-35 something like that… it probably only happened once, but I’m not saying Lowrie is that good, lol. He’d be good enough offensively to be our number 2 hitter right now, and has the build to grow into a number 3 hitter.
Ellsbury is perfect for this team because he is a good CF with great speed, excellent knowledge on the bases… I think 89% career in steals. His average is a huge part of his onbase percentage which is a bit scary when you think about it. A good hitter’s onbase percentage should be about .85 higher than their batting average… I think Ellsbury has always been about .60. So if he only hits 270, he’s on base 33% of the time as apposed to 35.5% of the time. Or better for us to think about if he hits .310… he’s on base nearly 40% of the time… Ellsbury could develop into Kenny Lofton kind of ball player, Lowrie anywhere from a Todd Walker (bottom end) to a Nomar Garciaparra (top end). Masterson I see as a Guerrier kind of pitcher. Could be a starter, but probably not a great one, but could be a very good reliever.
The mystery pick I’ve read Kalish, Bowden, or Moss.
Kalish is a solid outfielder, but I don’t know a lot on him. Bowden is rated pretty high and I don’t know much about him. and Moss is at best a Cuddyer kind of guy minus the arm in right and he strikes out a lot. I mean 16 homers and 145K’s last year kind of alot. He was a stud draft pick that was too stubborn to follow the Red Sox hitting system.
Robert, he might have to move, but I would bet he’d be a LFer.
Personally, I would like him to make the move to the Vikings and be their quarterback. With him the Vikings would have made the playoffs this year! LOL
in the field and at the plate, lol. I crack myself up.
I think if the Yanks only offer 5 years,
the other teams can save $40 million (and the 2 years of the risk) by also offering five years but getting exclusive negotiating rights by making the best offer to the Twins.
I think that Santana may then be convinced to take a five year deal from whichever team makes the trade.
His other options are to sign with the Twins (unlikely), or wait for free agency.
At free agency, 5 years may be the best he can get based on the current offers.
Yapper.
I agree. I was thinking about Mauer in LF in 2009, and comparing him a bit to Mike Greenwell as a hitter in the outfield… hopefully a better LF.
BC,
Why move one of the best defensive catchers in the game to LF?
That is where you put your backup DH or some other hitter who if fielding impaired.
I like him at 3B, seems to fit him better than LF. He has a good arm, good glove, and there has been a history of catchers moving to 3B and having success (Torre to name one).
I don’t want Reyes, give me Wright!
tc,
accually id rather take reyes….
we have enough power hitters… we need someone with speed now… GO WITH REYES!
In the beginning I wanted the red sox to do this trade but the more I hear about the prospects the more I don’t want to do it.I know that Santana is the best pitcher out there but good prospects don’t come up often. In a couple of years the red sox will need a good shortstop.If the twins get Ellsbury they will need to replace Coco. The Red Sox need a leadoff hitter. Ellsbury can be that person.
I just think that 3rd base might be a pressure to learn for him, and I don’t want to screw up his bat because he’s thinking too much at 3rd base about his defense… look what happened to Cuddyer.
Leave Mauer at catcher, Delmon Young in left field and address the positions that are occupied by stiffs.
BC, you don’t think there is more pressure behind the plate?? I think that is part of the reason that when catchers are moved to 3B their bats liven up. I think the move would be good for his bat.
Liondragon: I’m going to scream if you raise Reyes’ name again. The Mets are NOT going to trade him.
Christina,
The Red Sox are in a good position regarding there leadoff hitter. They have Pedroia .317 BA and .380 OBP and Youkilis .288/.390 plus Ellsbury.All are in there twenties. Heck…Crisp is 28. They can afford to trade Ellsbury.
Personally, I lean towards the Hughes deal because we will have blown 2 holes into are starting rotation (Santana and Silva) and he looks like the real deal.
Sane…
I am talking about the future… not this year, hopefully not next, but it is eventually going to have to be done, and you can’t put off thinking about tomorrow until tomorrow because you end up with what the idiots on both sides of the aisle have done with Social Security in politics. You don’t want to screw up the Twins that badly do you?
Robert
I think after all these years catching is like breathing to Joe.
So less stress at 3rd base definitely, but remembering foot placement, this hitter usually pulls, this player does that, what do I do on a bunt. The ball is going to rf, the ball is going to lf… where do I go for the cutoff?
Those kinds of things, and getting use to a normal fielding glove.
It might be brutal for a while, but I think it will suffice.
I just think LF would be a no brain thing, and then I expect 335 with 25 homers… anything less and I want Minnesotan’s to stop drinking the Jim Jones/Joe Mauer flavored Koolaid. He is not the golden child. He’s a very good ball player when healthy, but he is not a god.
BC HOW DARE YOU BLASPHEME!!! Kidding, but seriously, the injuries behind the plate are getting ridiculous. It’s time for a move. Redmond is more than capable to be a full time catcher, he proved that last year. I have faith in Joe’s athletic ability and I’m sure he could handle 3B; like you said, the first year might be rough though.
Jeez, I don’t know who all these people are who think Mauer is the golden child. I’ve certainly never met any of them. And the media hasn’t given him any special treatment. Dan Barreiro is always diminishing him, usually unfairly. Based on all the people I’ve talked to and all the blog reading I’ve done, I just don’t see those people anywhere. I think it’s just a typical Barreiro over-exaggeration. (And I like Barreiro!)
Dennis…
It’s Mauersota, Maueriffic, mauer-tastic
and very maurer-onic
I love Danny B, and to even be mentioned with his name… makes me happy.
I’ve eaten most of the people that were Mauer-phites… canabalism is the only way to solve the problem!
I just saw Hideki Matsui at the MSP airport. Maybe he’s coming to check out the place to waive his no trade clause?
” I see Damon wanting to return to the Red Sox to replace Manny Ramierez”
Bc Beneke…
Get a clue. The Red Sox aren’t looking to bring Johnny Damon back to replace Manny Ramirez.
They don’t want him as their left fielder. I know you couldn’t have meant that Damon would literally replace Ramirez.
But Boston wouldn’t want Damon at all. There’s other directions to move in anyway.
And I don’t know where you’re getting this stuff about Vlad going to the Bronx someday… that story would have been better for the Yankees when Vlad was a free agent years back, but Steinbrenner wanted Sheffield instead.
The Mauersota stuff is just the Twins PR department. They did the same sort of thing with Butch Wynegar, if you go back that far. Or the Corey Koskie stuff about being a Canadian. I haven’t heard any real people fawning over him more than over Torii or Morneausy or Santanasy.
Nathan to Milwaukee for Bill Hall (CF) & Derrick Turnbow (Replacement Closer). We’d possibly have to add in Dick Bremer but I think we could get Bob Uecker as well and maybe even a gallon of secret stadium sauce?
Brew Crew Trade - Quit dreaming. The Brewers would never trade Uecker. He’s untouchable.
I know the Brewers have Gagne but I really want that gallon of secret stadium sauce!
Follow-up to Matsui sighting post…Matsui was walking through baggage claim and everyone kept yelling “Godzilla!”. That’s when I knew it was him for sure. That and the fact he was 35 feet tall with scales and was breathing fire.
Yankee sighting,
Your not just pulling my leg…before I get to excited.
no trade til wensday next week earliest. my prediction. i also hope this doesnt last till febuary.
Just heard that it looks like the cubs will trade Gallager and others for Brian Roberts. If Gallager is gone, that takes away the best Nathan-to-Cubs trading chip.
They still have Pie, IMHO that is the best player we could get for Nathan
Cubs have always been high on Pie. I think that they will give him 08 to really show what he has, then decide weather or not to trade him.
BC
I agree with you on the ranking of the Springsteen albums (am I dating myself?). Darkness on the Edge of Town is my personal favorite and, in addition to those you listed, I loved Ghost of Tom Joad despite it’s musical starkness. Of course, there is also Born to Run. I didn’t say Magic was one of Springsteen’s best, I did say it was a great choice for one of the best of 2007. I think I like the cd a lot more than you do, but I think we’re in general agreement on a lot of things Springsteen. Now, if we could only get those pesky Twins straightened out . . .
BC,
If the Twins change Mauer’s position in the future, Redmond will already be gone.
I would catch Mauer until he is no longer a standout defensive catcher.
That position is too important, even if it costs him 30 point off his batting average.
If his catching skills fade, than move him to DH-backup catcher.
If you carefully read the Hankster’s quote, you will see he says the Yanksters will only offer johan a 5 year EXTENSION.
My previous post sent itself? Anyway, Johan is already under contract this year for 13 1/2 million? So if you tore up that contact & gave Johan 6 years at say 25 million per year, you have only EXTENDED his contract by 5 YEARS. Still a nice hunk of change & still a $150 million contract.
hey coco……
i think anyone in this blog would love 150 million… but instead we have to get our hopes up on the lottery while these players get it like its paper money….
how sad
Uh… that’s not secret stadium sauce… uh nevermind, enjoy your braut.
I go to the MOA a fair amount for people watching for my writing, or for my other career… and watch how people walk, and how they stand, and carry their bags, and make assessments… boring, but it has to be done from time to time. I try to kill two birds with one stone, and I swear to you I see 3-4 Mauer jerseys to other twins combined. At 75-125 dollars pop… that’s telling me there are a lot of people that are backing the hometown guy to the point that they think he’s more than he is. a great singles hitting defensive catcher. And that does not make him a franchise player, and that does not make him a number 3 hitter… I think number 2, though currently he’s best suited for number 1 in this lineup… eventually a number 6 hitter like Brian Harper. I don’t mind him being a DH either.
Besides if the team could find a way to bring the Mariners in, we get Clement, Jones, Wladimir, and Butler… then you can move Mauer to wherever you want him, and let the 25-30 homer 275 hitting catcher play behind the plate, and you can rotate them both between DH and CA… I don’t even care… that kid is a monster hitter.
Ok, I know that the Mariners (unfortunatley) aren’t interested in Santana. But is there anyone else we could trade to get Jones and/or Clement?
I’ll just put it this way. Pretend your Bill Smith and say: I want 1 or both of those guys. This is what I’ve got. What am I willing to give up to TRY and get them?
(Legit answers only would be nice- not Punto and Rincon for Clement and Jones, etc.).
As an extension on the last post, you could name some feasable trade options to anyone in the league. Brandon Wood comes to mind… Twins have pitching. Everyone here (except He who shall not be named) knows that. In theory what package might we be able to put together to acquire someone who’s really worth getting while not selling out ourselves at the same time?
YS, Matsui as a Twin? Eck. The reason the Yankees are reluctant to sign Santana (if that tune hasn’t changed) is because of the monster contract they apparently gave Matsui.
So the Twins (who have to trade Santana because of the monster contract it would take to keep him) would get back Matsui and HIS monster contract?
That doesn’t really…well…work.
Not to mention Matsui would be another corner infielder (Kubel, Cuddyer, Young, Monroe…)
TK2…
Cuddyer, Morales, Perkins, Manship. That might be able to get Clement and Jones. I’m tossing that one just from the dark though.
Mets May Have Top Santana Offer
Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune suggests the Mets might be the best fit for Johan Santana. He says they’re offering four players, three of them pitchers: Deolis Guerra, Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey, and Phil Humber. It’s a strong package.
Christensen says the Twins would accept if the Mets added Fernando Martinez to the package (not sure if Martinez would replace Gomez, or it would just be five players instead of four).
Something’s got to give here in the next few weeks - how long can the Santana saga hold up the free agent pitching market?
I say throw in Martinez and lets get this done..
if the mulvey, humber project as #4 starters, and if gomez has a .334 on base percentage then the twins seriously need one more player…give me martinez guerra, mulvey, humber, gomez.. and its a deal
TK(2)
haha.. im not sure who the twins would have to give up..
gotta think it would start with pitching
so perhaps a neshek?
maybe a package of slowey/guerrier?
i guess they could ask for morneau.. but that isnt happening..
but its a tough call. the twins dont have a guy like garza anymore so they dont have many trade chips
I just read that the Angels and Cubs might be working on a deal Figgins for Pie, and another prospect.
So that would take away the number one thing we’d want from the Cubs for Nathan.
BC
i find that to be interesting, Why would the Angels want Pie?
Unless they are a dark horse for Johan..
Maybe The twins told them they dont want Matthews JR or Willits??
Far Fetched, but why would The angels need another outfielder?
MH,
I said two weeks ago when all the METS hype blew up that they would need to package 5-7 guys and gut their entire farm system for Santana because their best prospects aren’t that high on the food chain, or that polished.
Martinez is supposed to be a stud, and so is Guerra, but when Twins fans go to the home opener and see ZERO results from that trade in the starting lineup, or we have one of the outfielders from the mets, but still… that’s going to be hard on the Joe Average fan, and might damn the season for the public.
BC
agreed, i didnt know mulvey, humber projected so poorly.. plus i didnt know gomez had such a weak OBP.. but he is still only 22..
but would mulvey/humber even make the twins rotation??
i suppose one of them would almost have to..
liriano, baker, slowey, boof, mulvey..
Anyword on Perkins?
Are they considering putting him in a starters role? Or leaving him in the Pen for the time being?
pohlad sucks the sweat off a dead mans balls
starting rotation for 08 (if we take mets deal…)
liriano
baker
slowey
mulvey (you know… he could be a great pitcher… hes in AAA atm and you know.. anderson could fix him up good)
boof, humber, perkins, blackburn, swarzak,duesing, anyone else you think…
not a bad lineup.. now look at 2010 (assuming guerra would be ready at 21…)
liriano
guerra
robertson
baker
mulvey if he turns out as great as his minor stats…
pohlad wants to pay everyone on the twins by buying them a tata nano. at 2500.00 they could get around on scrooge like contracts very economical just like scroogey boy
mulvey is a prospect whos 22 years old and looks like he could be a number 1 (being nice) or most likely a number 2-3 starter… he had a 3.3 era in the minors in AA and in AAA he has played one game which was a 2 hitter in 6 innings no runs scored…. not a very bad pitcher indead…… i expect him to be ready starting by 09 in the bullpen in late 08
as for humber…. PLEASE GIVE US PELFREY INSTEAD!!!!!!!
no one talking anymore? any news guys?
ok lets review these offers…
lester lowrie masterson crisp
ellsbury lowrie masterson 4th player
hughes cabrera marquez hilligoss
martinez gomez guerra mulvey*
* not a offer that has been confirmed
ok so. hughes compares to both lester and ellbury.. cabrera IS better then crisp or ellsbury. marquez is better the masterson and hilligoss matches more of what we need for infield help then lowrie.
so between yankees or mets…
cabrera matches gomez cabrera matches martinez marquez is very simmilar to marquez if maybe a toss up on the guerra side.. and mulvey is close to hilligoss.
looking at that i would take either offer
mets or yankees…
wow i was dead on with the mets offer…
and you thought i was nuts….
LOL
why don’t we just trade him for $$$ like we did with brandon roy
thats the post you wanted mh,
carl pohlad sucks the sweat off a dead mans balls
yeah!!! trade him for cash and a nano tata
that was from january 7th at 9:44 am btw
i heard that for christmas pohlad gives people pants with holes in the pockets then follows them around picking up spare change as it falls out of them
“i heard that for christmas pohlad gives people pants with holes in the pockets then follows them around picking up spare change as it falls out of them”
you know…. that sounds like pholad
another rumor around the old mill is that pohlad when he was younger used to sell children on the underground market to people who would not regularly qualify
pohlad is so cheap he wouldn’t even keep lew ford
lew ford stinks…… he stunk so much mlb shipped him to japan
bud selig didnt want him ruining mlb
MAYBE WE COULD BRING BACK JUAN AKA SENOR SMOKE HE WOULD BE AROUND OUR BUDGET FOR A NEW STARTING PITCHER
I HEARD THAT ON HOT DAYS POHLAD SITS OUTSIDE AND BOTTLES HIS OWN SWEAT SO HE DOESN’T HAVE TO PAY A WATER BILL
Is it just ME,
Or will we EVER get to see another Twin player that is drafted, brought up, and stays a twin his entire career??
Do not get me wrong, we just had Radke for his entire Career, But why not Johan, Why not Hunter..
Mauer? He should forever Wear a Twins Uniform. No If’s Ands, or Buts about it..
The twins organization is obviously great at bringing up kids and making them stars, but as a fan, we get attached to the players. Now i realize that hunter wanted and got way more then what he should have gotten, but at what point does a player think about having a whole career in one city?
Granted the twins Screwed up big time by not extending johan and torii sooner, but hopefully the organization learned from that. and if liriano comes up with a big season.. Please get him signed to a 4 year deal, and then if he is still good, extend him for another 4 years..
morneau needs a nice 5 year deal.. id say.. 5 years between 60-70 mil??
Delmon Young.. we should extend him already.. haha..
nice job mh,
not admitting that i was right…. instead you go to another subject cause you dont wanna admit im right
we will never in a million years be able to get or afford morneau 5 yrs for 60-70 mill. i see him playing soon in toronto hmmm yes toronto
liondragon..
my apologies.. i didnt read your post..
ok so, next topic
from mlbtraderumors.com
Brewers Interested In Mike Cameron
UPDATE, 1-10-08 at 10:23am: Haudricourt adds that the Brewers could be considering trading Hall, rather than changing his position again. He says the fact that Doug Melvin didn’t return his calls may indicate something is going on.
Could the twins perhaps be the destination of Bill Hall?
Nathan to the brewers for bill hall?
hmmmm.. i think i like it
he sucks and he is cheap so that fits the twins to a “T”
actually let me retract that statement..
bill hall hit 14hr 63rbi and a .2254 avg last year
so maybe i dont like it as much as i did 20 seconds ago
.254 avg
look out yankees look out redsox look out major leagur baseball here comes the mighty twins anchored by deadly “Bill Hall”
Senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Wednesday that the Yankees are now “leaning away from” making a Johan Santana trade.
Less than a week ago Steinbrenner said that the Yankees were “leaning towards doing” a deal for Santana, so as usual his statements to the media have more to do with getting into the newspaper than providing any sort of actual information. We’ll see what Steinbrenner has to say if rumors of the Mets becoming the front runners for Santana gain any steam.
Source: New York Daily News
something tells me if hank keeps leaning that he is bound to fall over
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A NEW STADIUM FULL OF PLAYERS WE JUST DO NOT LIKE. I MISS CASTILLO, HUNTER AND SOON SANTANA. I REALLY WISH I COULD HAVE SEEN THE DAY THAT A NEW STADIUM WOULD BEEN FILLED BY PLAYERS I ACTUALLY GAVE A RATS ASS ABOUT.
SINCERELY,
A DISSATISFIED TWINS FAN
jimmy bee,
Please go to a therapist before you unleash all that anger on your family.
Socrates says SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN
MH,
Hank is swaying because he’s in a debae with his partner, Hal, who doesn’t talk but has equal control of the team.
Methinks, Hal is adament and Hank is looking to possibly save face - starting with only 5 years for Santana (a good move but a sudden one)
Roundabout,
He is a blowhard and that is the bottom line. A loser prick through and through. A rich spoiled baby if you will.
I am sick of hearing what he has to say. Let’s hear what Cashman thinks. He is the one that will be the deciding factor. The only one with a brain in that FO.
I also want to go on record saying that if that is all the Mets are offering, then I would NOT do the deal with them.
Give me Reyes, give me Wright, or you don’t get Johan.
I don’t want a bunch of pitching prospects that wouldn’t even be in our top 10 pitching prospects list. And I don’t want a bunch of A or AA ball kids with “potential”. I am sick of potential. Give up something real and we will talk, otherwise you can keep your “prospects”. I want guys ready to play either this year or next.
Yapper,
What makes him a blowhard? He’s asked a question and gives an answer? Cashman’s views have been made known.
I don’t see what’s so offensive about what Hank Steinbrenner has to say? Anyway, most people here don’t want the Yankee offer or trade the beloved Johan to the dreaded evil empire. So what’s your beef?
BTW, what does Minnesota management have to say abotu trading Santana and the progress or lack of progress or the deal with Santana? I am sure Twins fans would like some hint, right?
Or do you prefer to yap in the dark?
My beef is he is full of shat. Why does he keep talking when he has a different answer every day. It’s just sickening, that is all. Some would call him flaky. Noone believes what he says as he will say one thing and do the next.
I would like some hint I guess, but really I hope they are thinking just like the rest of us are. Bring back a haul for him in a trade, or resign him. None of us want piles of low level prospects. We have seen so many touted “prospects” come and go, we want something that is a sure thing or very close to it.
By the way, I like the Yankees deal of Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez, prospect, better than any that don’t include both Ellsbury and Lester.
Yapper,
I think the answer is Hank Steinbrenner isn’t sure whether to trade for Santana or not.
I am not sure. I can see both sides. I know Santana brings almost guaranteed success the next few years. He’s certainly superior now to Hughes and maybe forever. So all that means is a hole in centerfield for the moment and losing two potentially solid prospects.
On the surface, outside the emotional aspect, it’s good for the Yanks.
Twins management obviously is in Hamlet mode as well, not knowing which deal to take or getting another team interested.
If the Twins make the Mets trade I will be laughing for years to come how Bill over shot his trade power and would wind up with 5 Mets prospects that have not one ALL STAR caliber prospect.
IF they make the deal Bill should just resign. He should have taken the Hughes deal before Steinbrenner’s deadline..
Quantity does not equal Quality!
Mets prospects are Laughable…
See what you get for asking the world??
You get 5 players that will NEVER and take that to the bank.. NEVER amount to anything other than mediocre talent.
WOW. What an idiot Bill Smith is.
Yes see, that is the deal. Every team seems to think they can give up their spare parts, and in turn, get back the best pitcher or this generation.
A hole in centerfield. Yah, maybe until the next super-expensive FA goes on the market, at which time the Yankees toss way more money than he is worth at him.
I know it is not anyone’s fault, but baseball is unfair to the Twins and other teams outside of the Coasts.
We NEED a salary cap. Put teams on an even playing field. Then the hate for the “evil empire” will disappear.
Gold Glove. I’ll guarantee every deal that has thus been mentioned is still on the table. Just because Spanky(Hank) says it is not, doesn’t mean a thing.
Yapper,
Within three years, I hope the Yankee outfield includes Jose Tabata (now 19) and Austin Jackson (now 20). And I would welcome Melky as the third outfielder, if the Santana deal falls through.
As for elite centerfielders on the free agent market, I think the cubboard is bare. Teams are holding on to their youngsters, it seems.
But there are other FA agent outfielders, starting in 2009, when the Yanks lose contracts of Abreu and Giambi (36M, I believe) and Damon and Matsui are widing down.
Lets speculate. If the youngsters aren’t ready or one is traded, there is
Vladimir Guerrero (should have been the choice over Sheffield)
Carl Crawford (EXCELLENT)
Adam Dunn (power OBA and can play first)
Ken Griffey Jr. (for two years, I’d take a shot)
Manny Ramirez (bring the NYC boy back home, what the heck)
Outfielders
Bobby Abreu NYY
Moises Alou NYM
Garrett Anderson * LAA NOPE
Rocco Baldelli * TB NOPE
Willie Bloomquist SEA NAH
Emil Brown KC
Pat Burrell PHI
Endy Chavez NYM
Carl Crawford * TB
Adam Dunn CIN
Jim Edmonds SD
Juan Encarnacion STL
Cliff Floyd CHC
Brian Giles * SD
Shawn Green NYM
Ken Griffey Jr. * CIN
Vladimir Guerrero * LAA
Raul Ibanez SEA
Jacque Jones DET
Mark Kotsay OAK
Rob Mackowiak SD
Kevin Mench MIL
Jason Michaels * CLE
Craig Monroe MIN
Jay Payton BAL
Scott Podsednik CWS
Manny Ramirez * BOS
Juan Rivera LAA
Rondell White MIN
Mets best prospect!! F-mart????
Do some research PLEASE!
F. Martinez Career Minor League Stats
AVG OBP SLG OPS
272 .332 .419 751
As I said LAUGHABLE!!!
He is also 18 years old!!
Last year when he was brought up.. he went 3 for 9 ..
Like I said if the Mets pull this off.. it gives a whole new meaning to “getting fleeced”.
OMG.. LOL.. what are you people talking about? Stop repeating what your read.. More importantly stop believing everything you read with out facts!
source: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Fernando-Martinez.shtml
if the Mets package is real.. than why have the Yankees offered “Franchise Package” and nothing else? Pure speculation of course..
A) This is the final hoorah for the Twins.. to see who bites
b) They desperately want to ship Santana out of the AL (NO WAY, not when it comes to talent vs no talent in the trade)
c) They actually like the Mets deal (Nope, doubt that too)
d) Bill overshot himself and now has to settle (More likely)
e) Santana spoke up and said, “I prefer the Mets” (maybe)
If we don’t at least offer a package other than Hughes, than I will be really disappointed. We can put together the BEST package even without Hughes.. frankly, I that what I want! (Keep Hughes).
If the Twins have said, “Hughes plus.. or nothing” Well, looks like they are actually going to get nothing from the Mets..
Unreal, if this is not posturing like I said in “see a)” then I am totally baffled and think the mets are about to steal the best pitcher in baseball for nothing more than teenagers who just graduated high school!
UN-FOCK-ING-REAL.
Gold Glove - I’ve been trying to think of a respectful way to say you don’t know what you’re talking about - because you don’t. The Mets deal as speculated about with Martinez would be FAR better than the Hughes deal. You talk about looking at the “facts”. Do you realize what it means when an 18-year old puts up the numbers Martinez did in DOUBLE-A??? He’s considered one of the very best prospects in all of baseball. I’m sure people are tired of me quoting Keith Law, but he knows baseball better than any of us, and has analyzed it for a living for well over ten years. He said if he were the Mets he wouldn’t trade Martinez alone to the Twins for Santana.
But because I’ve used Law before, here’s Aaron Gleeman’s take today. Gleeman also is a first rate analyst, and has been hired by more than one national organization for his expertise. Here’s what he said:
“Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports that the Mets have offered Deolis Guerra, Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey, and Philip Humber in exchange for Johan Santana, but notes that the Twins have asked for Fernando Martinez to be included in the deal. Martinez is the best that the Mets’ farm system has to offer and the 19-year-old outfielder possesses one of the highest ceilings of any prospect in baseball, so getting him added to the proposal is a pretty major stumbling block.
Gomez is a speedy, low-power center fielder who’s somewhat similar to Jacoby Ellsbury without being as MLB-ready. Guerra is a 19-year-old right-hander with big-time upside who the Mets signed out of Venezuela for $700,000, while Mulvey and Humber are MLB-ready rotation options who don’t project to be stars. Monday in this space I discussed the strength of a Phil Hughes-led offer from the Yankees, but a Mets package that includes Martinez, Guerra, Gomez, and Mulvey would blow that out of the water.
Baseball America ranks Martinez as the Mets’ top prospect (and likely one of the top 20 prospects in baseball), with Guerra second, Gomez third, Mulvey fourth, and Humber seventh. In the past the Mets have famously shown a willingness to mortgage the future by dealing top prospects like Scott Kazmir and Lastings Milledge for relatively modest veteran returns, but giving up a potential stud like Martinez while completely gutting a fairly strong system seems highly unlikely.”
Dennis,
Let me say this nicely.. “You really like to believe what everyone else tells you.. the media” Do you like to gamble on 18 year olds that hardly EVER make it to the MLB? Sounds like you do..
Let the stats speak for themselves.. and as of right now, FMart is not in the deal.. and even he is.. LAUGHABLE!
Nice job Dennis.. *BEEP* you lose.
Roundabout, that will never happen. Yanks can’t sit there and let someone else buy up the big names. It is not the way they work. I am guessing Tabata and Jackson will be pieces that they use to trade once they are just about ready for the show and have reached their highest value.
Gold Glove,
I agree with you about the Mets deal. It will be a rip-off for the Twins if they don’t get at least one guy that can start right away and one of them must be a top prospect. Such as Hughes, Ellsbury, Bucholtz, etc.
I have just posted with a bunch of links and it is being moderated.. sorry I cannot offer you hard fact that the Mets deal is laughable.
Deolis Guerra:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=500610
AGE: 19, not enough info .. 6 games 4.01 ERA??
Carlos Gomez:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/Carlos-Gomez-1.shtml
Goto the link, see for yourself… nothing special at all!
Kevin Mulvey:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=453381
Probably the best prospect: 23 years old in 150+ innings in the minors has a 3.20 ERA
Phil Humber
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/Philip-Humber.shtml
In 3 games during spring training Phil had a glorious 16.20 ERA .. He is 24 years old.. (career ERA over 4.0) lots os potential here.
Fmart see above previous post
Also check out Seth Stohs’, another highly regarded Twins analyst. He would love the Mets deal as well:
If you page down to about the middle he does in depth analysis of all the Mets prospects that are being talked about.
Personally, based on everything I’ve read, I would LOOOOVVVVE the Mets deal. We’d be getting far more talent than from any other deal. Hughes is certainly more advanced, but if your main haul is one pitcher there’s always a risk of injury or not living up to potential. There’s actually less risk, and much more talent, in the Mets’ proposal. The only stumbling block is that the Twins truly want to contend in 2008. But they could build an awesome team a couple of years down the road if they can pull this thing out.
I don’t know much more what to say. If multiple people who analyze baseball for a living all seem to agree on something, it should mean something to you. You just can’t say “hard facts prove it”. There are no appropriate hard facts for prospects.
It’s legitimate to say that it’s your opinion that the Twins would be better off if they get someone ready to play now. And you can say that it’s your opnion that the Mets deal would be bad. But I’ll take the opinions of Keith Law, Aaron Gleeman and Seth Stohs over that of anyone on this board.
dennis he would love the deal to convince you twins fans to love the deal so Bill does not look like a donkey.. which he really is looking like at this point.
Dennis,
you are acting like the Yankees were offering Hughs for Santana straight up.. They were offering 4 players..
One A+ Stud .. (HUGHES)
One Average CF (Cabrera)
and 2 B prospects who are very close to being MLB ready.
Your telling me that is more Risky than High School Teenagers the Mets are offering? What’s wrong with you?
I know baseball, it was my life for 30+ years. I lived it. I am not a writer.
Gold Glove - Seth and Aaron are huge Twins FANS with no connection to the team. Keith Law is an ESPN analyst who worked for a few years for the Blue Jays and wrote for Basebally Prospectus for seven years. He has no ties to the Twins, and has been critical of many of their moves over the years.
You are using stats from partial years in High A and AA ball for 18 year old kids to make your case. Stats literally mean nothing at that age at those levels. Scouting reports are FAR more important. If the Twins pull off a deal with both Martinez and Gomez in it they’ll be hailed nationally for a coup.
Just sign him and lets be done talking about it!!!
Mets deal is fine, but I’ll bet half those guys don’t pan out.
Either way, F-mart is not in the deal yet anwyay.
Hey, don’t get me wrong. I like the Yankees deal. A lot. I also like the Ellsbury Red Sox deal. (Lowrie will be really good.) In fact, I WOULD do Santana for Hughes even up if that was the best deal I could do. I personally prefer the Mets deal, but I’d be happy with either of the others as well.
Don’t be so quick to disparage the “writers”. They’re not writers in the sense of being newspaper guys who report on their teams. Their analysts who do very sophisticated statistical research AND consult multiple sources for the latest scouting reports. That doesn’t mean they can’t be wrong. I’m a Porfolio Valuations Analyst myself, and I certainly know how wrong analysts can be. But when three highly respected analysts all independently conclude the same thing, with facts, scouting reports, etc., backing them up, it’s very persuasive.
MH
Perkins seems to be progressing from the little I’ve heard. IT’s all about
Santana
Santana
Santana
Nothing
Santana
Nathan
Santana
Liriano
Santana
that’s pretty much all you hear about in that order.
Mulvey will make the rotation at some point in time… will he be able to keep the gig?
the 2010 rotation is shaping up to look like.
Liriano, Sosa, Slowey, Perkins, Dunesing
And we still have Swarzak, Manship, Robertson, and we could still have Chubby Boof who might make a closer at some point?
That is why I’m not so overly worried about Lester or Hughes… sure they would be great, but we need other things more than we need pitching.
Sorry I was away. I actually was working for a change… I’m editing poems for a book I’ve been talked into putting together… I also have two songs that were sent to me that I’m trying to put lyrics to, and one band the drummer is off tempo and it screws everything up. The person that put their demo together kind of blew it because it doesn’t sound like it’s a live take. If it’s a live take… then I’m a bit more impressed. The other is almost done… so I’m in and out depending on my inspiration.
BC,
Feel free to be away.
I can’t believe it nobody wants santana!!
the yankees have basically said they are out of it and i don’t blame them four prospects for a 29 year old pitcher on the downside of his career and only trows 2 pitches(FB,Changeup)and on top of that he wants 150 million!! The Redsox never wanted santana they were only in it to drive up the price on the yankees,and the redsox already have an ace whose better than santana(BECKETT)and cheaper,beckett only makes 10 million while santana wants 20 million.The mets DO want santana but their minor league system is trash!So twins fans you can keep santana for one more year and win nothing with him,lose him to free agency where he will go to either the redsox or yankees and you’ll get nothing for him!!!hahahahahahahahah!! oh and santana is also known to be a cancer in the clubhouse another reason why there is no market for him. Dan Haren got traded for 6 prospects,johan santana for nobody!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BC,
I like Perkins. I know he had a rough start with the Twins and, I believe, some personality conflicts. He’s got an arm. Then again, he could be one of those prospects who don’t pan out. You never know.
As for Beantown - Santana can easily go tot eh Red Sox and likely will unless the Twins like the Mets offer. Santana remains a better pitcher than Beckett. Santana is heads and shoulders the best in the game
Yapper,
It’s a new day in Yankee land - they are looking to keep their young players or haven’t you notice. And aside from Dunn, the potential FA are aging so don’t look for the Yanks to make a big play.
totally off the subject, but i graduated with glen perkins wife, and she was a very mean stuck up individual who prayed on the unpopular. does that make it wrong to cheer against perkins even though i love the twins?
Dear Beantown:
Do you thing David Ortiz should be in the Hall Of Fame?
Serious question.
Trade Santana for Ellsbury.
Santana = to or > than Ramirez
kenny rogers
yes first ballot
why does hank stienbrenner make it seem as though the yankees are rejecting the twins? isn’t supposed to be the other way around. If the yankees don’t get santana it is an end of an era because if George was still around santana would have been a yankee in November,and george would never listen to cashman on the big superstar player. Hank and Hal seem cheap unloke their father which is good news for us redsox fans,because we already have the best GM in the game.
Get Ellsbury
Natsy Sandwich
in your dreams your getting Ellsbury i dont Care if you give me Santana and Nathan. The only deal your getting from the redsox is Lester and Crisp.
Kind of Have to agree with Beantown on this one guys.
Ortiz really doesn’t have the numbers to be in the HOF.
Scott
it’s about time you see what i see.
BEANTOWN:
I’m the singer, not the southpaw.
Boogerman
When was the last time you saw ortiz play when he was with the twins???? how can you say he’s not a HOF.
kenny rogers
doesn’t matter they both STINK!!!!!
Clemens is INNOCENT people.
Jon
are you related to Clemens?
Dear Beano:
Kenny Rogers the singer has a had a career any athlete can only dream of: 40 years, still a superstar, filling arenas, earning mega-bucks, marrying some of the most beautiful women in North America.
kenny rogers
I did not say anything about his wives or money,i just think he’s a terrible singer.
David Ortiz needs another five years like the previous five to become a hall of famer.
If he retired today, he wouldn’t make the hall of fame
He’s certainly on the road to the hall.
roundabout= said Kirby doesn’t merit Hall of Fame
why does hank stienbrenner make it seem as though the yankees are rejecting the twins? isn’t supposed to be the other way around. If the yankees don’t get santana it is an end of an era because if George was still around santana would have been a yankee in November,and george would never listen to cashman on the big superstar player. Hank and Hal seem cheap unloke their father which is good news for us redsox fans,because we already have the best GM in the game.
BEANTOWN:
Please,please,please,follow this link and watch the music video. It makes any baseball lover smile! Please as a favor to a fellow fan. (Just copy and paste in the address bar.)
http://www.cmt.com/videos/kenny-rogers/96245/the-greatest.jhtml
Whose better than Theo Epstein at this moment. he has defenitly made the most of what he’s got.
Looks like you can just click the link.
Kenny Rogers,
You poor soul, needing to lie.. Hell look who’s your favorite singer or pitcher.. both washed up.. .
You have my pity
kenny rogers
ok I’ll check it out.
roundabout
you shouldn’t be talking you said last week that you believe roger clemens is innocent.
Roundabout:
Read your blog comment, and read one by some lady giving you the business for saying it. Not a liar.
Beantown
I didn’t say he was innocent. You can’t read. I said I’d have to see more evidence to convict him.
There’s a difference
Please show me my exact words
Have your proven him guilty, by the way and what’s your evidence?
Here’s a real baseball song — and you learn about real centerfielders…
Kenny Rogers,
The lady was following your lie… And she and I were talking about Ellsbury and Melky, I believe. You have your centerfielders mixed up, not surprisingly
roundabout
my evidence is my eyes. he was throwing the ball at 95mph at the age of 40 and above.how about almost killing Mike Piazza Twice(ROID RAGE).Andy pettite is also my evidence,they were best buddies.
Kenny Rogers
It was okay.
beantown.
And he also won a Cy Young during a year when he wasn’t accused of being juiced.
You could be right, but you don’t have evidence you have an opinion.
roundabout
just give it up!! I understand your a big yankee fan and you want to defend your hero,but only a fool would believe Clemens.
The yankees title in 2000 should be taken away from them. I have no problem with the other titles they won,but in 2000 50% of their roster was on Juice.
Beanie,
LOL .. Clemens is far from my hero. lol I consider him a Red So, you clown. He’s your guy.
I believe you have to have proof to convict someone.. Go right ahead. When they start accusing Ortiz, showing his amazing increase in power and production, we’ll see what you have to say. Ortiz went from a slim jim to rather large fast.. I wonder how that happened.
Would you care to guess?
Beanie,
Why 2000? Who was juiced in 2000.. Be careful now..
Funny Dan Naulty who pitched for Twins from 1996 to 1998 (a teamate of a current Red Sox DH) and confessed to being a Juicer said the Yankees had far less cheater/juices than the Twins.. Hmmm
BEANTOWN:
That video made my day! I find myself humming that tune sometimes. My claim to fame: Saw Gardy at a Karaoke club one night. I sang Centerfield by John Fogarty for him. He gave me a thumb. Not down, not up, kinda sideways. He sang Okie From Muskogee (where he grew up). Helluva singer, best looking Manager in baseball!
Pettite,Clemens,Justice,Knoblouck,Stanton,Grimsley,Nelson,Canseco,Glen allan hill,Neagle,Darren holmes,Dan Naulty and a few more that I’m forgetting
roundabout
are you accusing PAPI of being a user??
kenny rogers
I thought it was okay,but I’m not Humming it like you.
roundabout
Pettite,Clemens,Justice,Knoblouck,Stanton,Grimsley,Nelson,Canseco,Glen allan hill,Neagle,Darren holmes,Dan Naulty and a few more that I’m forgetting
I guess I proved you wrong.I came up with 12 players off the top of my head.
I have to stand up for David Ortiz. He was fat and slow when he played here also. It was painful to watch him run on TV in the series. Was surprised when they said he had a bad knee, he always ran funny. Ortiz, Hrbek,and Kirby didn’t Juice, they just had too many dome dogs.
BEANER:
I won’t take that wrong.
kenny rogers
Don’t worry about roundabout he’s just angry about his juiced up yankees,so he started making up rumors about other teams.
Beanie,
You need to learn to read and get your facts. I tried to warn you.
Now this is from the Mitcher report:
Report does cite Clemens, Neagle and part-timer Canseco (who barely played)
Otherwise, you are striking out
Dan Naulty wasnt on the 2000 team He was out of baseball.. OOPS…
Pettitte didnt do HGH two shots until 2003
McNamee said that he acquired human growth hormone from Radomski for Knoblauch in 2001.
Radomski estimated he had engaged in at least seven or eight sales to Grimsley involving human growth hormone, Deca-Durabolin, and diet pills from 2000 through 2003. Grimsley didn’t pitch in 2000 WS and pitched one inning against Seattle in the playoffs
Verlarde not until 2003
Stanley not until 2003 with Mets
Justice supposedly after 2000 world series. He denies it
Glenallen Hill (partimer) was accused while with the Giants before he came to the Yankees.
Beanie,
You don’t people implying this juice stuff against Big Papi without solid proof.. Well, I see you…
You can accuse 12 Yankees on 2000 team of being juiced off the top of your head — and wrong on 9 of them
Dareen Holmes wasnt on 2000 Yankees.. try 1998.. OOPS!!!!! Wrong again, beanie
Somebody ripped me for saying Santana is the best pitcher in baseball. They said he is good, but Alex Rodriguez is “the face of MLB today”. No, I think most Americans think Roger Clemens is THE face of baseball today. All a bunch of arrogant, juiced up, multi-millionaires who think they are above the law. Makes you want to cry.
Santana certainly is the best pitcher in baseball.
A-Rod, argulably, is the best all-round player in baseball.
Clemens is one of the best Red Sox pitcher ever, if not the best.
I think that’s fair to say.
All of those are lame Excuses!!!you know the yankees cheated.
I think Roger Clemens is one of the best of any pitchers, ever. Now I know why. That’s what hurts me.
Beanie,
No “lame excuses,” just the facts.
Lets review, shall we.
You said 12 players off the top of your head juiced for the 2000 team. You said the Yanks should give back their championship, but you had no problem with the other championships.
As I showed you, the 2000 team was not Juiced as much as you claim. Typical red Sox fan, loves talking but whines when proven wrong.
Lets review what you wrote:Beantown!!! says:
Beantown!!! says:
January 10th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
The yankees title in 2000 should be taken away from them. I have no problem with the other titles they won,but in 2000 50% of their roster was on Juice.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
roundabout
Pettite,Clemens,Justice,Knoblouck,Stanton,Grimsley,Nelson,Canseco,Glen allan hill,Neagle,Darren holmes,Dan Naulty and a few more that I’m forgetting
I guess I proved you wrong.I came up with 12 players off the top of my head.
Well, Here’s the facts according to the Mitchell Report:
Report does cite Clemens, Neagle and part-timer Canseco (who barely played)
Dan Naulty wasnt on the 2000 team He was out of baseball.
Pettitte didnt do HGH until 2003, when he admits to taking 2 shots.
McNamee said that he acquired human growth hormone from Radomski for Knoblauch in 2001.
As for Grimsley, he didn’t pitch in the 2000 world series and pitched one innings in playoffs against Seattle. The report says Radomski estimated he had engaged in at least seven or eight sales to Grimsley involving human growth hormone, Deca-Durabolin, and diet pills from 2000 through 2003.
Randy Verlarde: not until 2003
Mike Stanley: not until 2003 with Mets
David Justice: supposedly after 2000 world series. He denies it
Glenallen Hill (parti-timer) was accused while with the Giants before he came to the Yankees.
Darren Holmes wasn’t on 2000 Yankees, as you claimed; try the 1998
Now, can you admit you were wrong about the 2000 Yankee team?
Kenny Rogers,
Clemens probably still is a top 10 pitcher of all time.. If Clemens juiced, I guess Seaver probably gets the nod now - at least among the modern pitchers.
Beanie,
One more error you made.
Jeff Nelson was not named in the Mitchell Report. Do you have evidence now that Nelson juiced or are you just making things up again or getting your information from Cecil - your puffing magic dragon.
Knoblauch Ends Silence About Report From Mitchell
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/sports/baseball/11clemens.html?ref=baseball
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/sports/baseball/11chass.html?ref=baseball
Peter Greenberg, Santana’s agent, said he had told the Twins that Santana would like to have his situation settled before spring training.
People with the Mets and the Yankees suspect that the report, which said the Mets “might be the best fit,” was an idea generated by the Twins in an effort to induce the Yankees to move. General managers have been known to use reporters to stir another team’s interest.
The Mets have said in the past that they wouldn’t include Gomez and Martinez, their top outfield prospect, in the same deal. If they included both outfielders and all three pitchers (Guerra is an 18-year-old righty who is considered one of the organization’s top pitching prospects), it would basically wipe out their farm system.
Regardless, the Mets seem to be the leaders in the Santana sweepstakes because the Yankees’ interest in the two-time Cy Young winner has cooled in the past few days.
Hank Steinbrenner told the Daily News on Wednesday that the Bombers were “leaning away” from making a deal for Santana because of the high asking price in both dollars and prospects for the lefthander.
(Pay real close attention now)
“We have to sign him as if he’s a free agent, plus you have to give up major talent,” Steinbrenner said Wednesday. “That’s a tall order.”
GM Brian Cashman reiterated that sentiment last night on the YES Network.
“I think we’re probably closer to going with what we’ve got than making any substantial changes at this stage of the game,” Cashman said. “Discussions can always change and that’s why you stay engaged with the opposing teams as well as the ownership side of this. Every day could be something different, but right now I’d say we’re going to go with what we’ve got.”
The Redsox were only in this to drive up to cost for the Yankees and were never giving a flyball lefty pitcher in Fenway 23M+ for 6-7 years (or any other player 1 year from 30!!!)…
The Yankees know the Sox are not serious, brother Hal & Cashman are against giving Santana the money and alot of vet players dont want the deal done. So the Yankees are now willing to go with what they have…
The Twins didnt like the Mets prospects one month ago and the Mets are refusing to incude Martinez…
This is just way too rediculous…
Way to go Bill!
The Red Sox didn’t do this to drive the price for the Yankees. Santana dominated the Yankees and that’s the reason why they were interested on Santana. I’m suspecting the reason why they don’t include Lester and Ellsbury is because Farell thinks that Lester is going to be really good in few years. Ellsbury is an excellent player already. I watched every game he played and I can tell you that he is very special. Before he played baseball he played basketball and he was an outstanding player according to his team in the college.That tells me that no matter what he set to do he will do it and be very good. This is why they offered them in two different packages and not together. About the years Santana is asking is too much. Seven years is too long. if I was the Red Sox I wouldn’t offer more than 6 years. Six years 130 million total.
Here’s my take on the situation. Wild Bill is sitting on this because, he is thinking that if he can’t bring back a haul, then he will resign Johan.
If all other teams are willing to give him is 5 years, then the Twins are just as likely as anyone else to sign him. I will bet a 5 year, 100 million dollar extention, or 6 year 113.5 million dollar contract either has or will be offered from the Twins before they go and take the best offer out there.
Beantown, you say Beckett is better and that he is cheaper, etc. To that I will say that NO he is not a better pitcher, and just you wait until he comes near free agency. He will want the same type of contract that it is reported Santana has been asking for.
Where is Dennis now? He was so hot on the Mets prospects .. LOL
Carlos Gomez, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Philip Humber - only Gomez has shown promise at the major-league level.
Even so, Gomez batted only .232 (29-for-125) in 58 games last season after he was rushed to the Mets
And you complained about Melky? Enjoy Gomez and the rest of the garbage the Mets are offering.
Gold Glove was right, Laughable.
NY papers are citing Mets sources as saying Martinez is not being offered, as of the moment. The papers are reporting that the Twins haven’t even made an official offer - all talk. It seems the Twins are using the Mets to jack up the Yankee offer or to force Martinez from the Mets.
I doubt very much the sole reason the Red Sox might want Santana is the lefy’s success against the Yankees. That type of obession for 7 years and 140M is major league.Someone with knowledge of baseball would say Santana has been successful against most teams in baseball. And the Red Sox have said they would go 7 years for Johan - possibly another pressure point.
Where Santana goes remains up in the air, it seems.
Yapper,
You are correct. Beckett is good, but Santana is heads and shoulders better than any other pitcher in baseball, at the moment. Just look at the stats. Besides, Santana’s been great for five seasons, while Beckett’s been very good for one season.
Beckett will command a king’s ransom when he’s a FA, on level of what Sabathia gets next year, maybe more
You guys might not have noticed, but, there’s better information here on this blog than on most of the Twin Cities sports columns. I swear Sid and the gang are reading this stuff and then printing it as their own sometimes. Alot of B.S. in here but also a lot of “spot on” analysis. Good job guys!
It seems as though the twins are using both the redsox and mets to try to get the yankees to overpay on prospects. The yankees are not stupid if the redsox were so interested supposedly they would have had him at the winter meetings. The twins don’t believe any of the mets prospects are worth Santana. The yankees know that their the only team that the twins have for trading santana,and they are going to wait it out until the twins get desperate and cave in. Bill Smith is overplaying this whole thing,he’s trying to be to
smart which could end up hurting him.
Bill Smith is overplaying this whole thing,he’s trying to be to
smart which could end up hurting him.
Maybe it already has,if it’s true that the yankees are out.
The latest according to some sources is that the Yankees are out.
“Bill Smith is overplaying this whole thing,he’s trying to be to
smart which could end up hurting him.”
Uhm.. Bill blew it when he left the winter meetings and didn’t make a deal. He called Hank on his deadline .. and he lost.
If Santana goes to the Mets to 4 Mets prospects .. I will never ever in my life have any respect for the Twins organization .. well at least not until the fire Bill Smith..
What an idiot.
for 4 prospects ( ANY 4 ) from the Mets garbage deal.
Dear Hawk:
You are right on about this blog having better information and more intelligence
than any other source. People should always listen to us, get all their legal advice from friends, and ALWAYS get their medical advice from co-workers.
Dear Joel:
Are you aware of how former Minnesota athletes excel when going to Boston (New England)? It’s a can’t miss proposition, and the Red Sox can’t go wrong and need to divvy up, bigtime.
Booger,
I read also that the Red Sox would be more than happy if Santana went to the Mets or the Yankees. The Red Sox don’t seem to want to give up either Lester or Ellsbury, as well as some of the other prospects. It’s kind of surreal.
Well they’re dumb. Santana would dominate for the Red Sox. You know it, I know it, and the American people know it. That should be American League, I guess.
The Yankees have not had an offer on the table since the winter meetings…
The Yankees have stated they will only offer a 5 year deal to Santana…
The Redsox have 2 offers currently on the table…
The Redsox have stated they are willing to go 7 years for Santana…
If the Twins like the Sox players better and believe they are seriously interested…
WHAT IS THE HOLDUP!
Why are we getting bogus Mets deals floated in the NY papers when both of the current Redsox deals are better than anything the Mets are offering?
BTW… Hal Stiennbrener is a MBA & The Sox owner John Henry is a money manager whose entire career has been about investing low & managing future risk!
Has anyone been paying attention to what is going on in the financial world and the general US economy the few months?
It’s not a coincidence that salaries contracted from 2002-2004.
>130M + >50M in tax for a 29 year old pitcher isn’t looking attractive to either the Redsox or Yankees (both 2x tax offenders), especially when the Twins are looking for 3+ premium prospects.
The hold up is Bill Smith knows the Red Sox are not offering equal value. Their only player on Santana’s level is Manny Ramirez. Don’t think any arrogant east coast team would make a trade that equal. Receiving several prospects would leave more margin for error, but, has anybody ever heard of most of these guys?
Does anyone know who is driving this deal - Bill Smith or the other teams. I read what other teams are either being asked for by the Twins, are offering or some combination of both.
Has GM SMith ever spoken publicly about what he wants.
He’s in a bind. The market for Santana is thin. Again, few teams have the prospects, established players or some combo to even offer. And Santana’s asking price and contract length also scares off team. Notice the Angels, with probably the best established players and prospects to offer, are sitting this one out, as are the Dodger..
The easiest explaination is bothe teams feel their pitching is strong enough so they don’t have to give up propsects or establish players. Seattle sees Bedard as a less expensive alternative to Santana.
Seems both the Yanks and Red Sox are cool to making the trade, other than to make the other up the price (the Twins dream)
The real holdup is that the Twins are negotiating for a better package from the Mets, than the Sox have offered.
Those offers will be evaluated by the Twins scouting department who have actually seen the players, not by bloggers.
Dear Socrates:
“Hawk” said at 1:06 PM that there is more information on this blog than in the sports section and Sid and the guys just copy us. So that settles it. We are more intelligent, and you owe everyone an apology.
New York Blog
Cameron signs with Milwaukee
Jan. 11, 2008
A day after it was rumored that the Yankees were interested in him, Mike Cameron has signed with the Milwaukee Brewers.
Imagine our shock, a free agent using a New York team to get the deal he wanted from another team.
There were reports that Alex Rodriguez wanted Cameron to join him with the Yankees. But while A-Rod may want a designated friend to replace Doug Mientkiewicz, the Yankees seem content with Melky Cabrera in center field.
Meanwhile, the blog had one of our operatives in Tampa today and he reports Phil Hughes, Humberto Sanchez, Andrew Brackman and Jeff Karstens were working out under the supervision of new pitching coach Dave Eiland.
Joba Chamberlain is also due in town. Nice to see so many of the young guys getting a head start. Sanchez and Brackman are coming off Tommy John surgery. Sanchez will be able to pitch at some point this season but Brackman not until 2009.
Said our operative, “Brackman looked like Manute Bol out there.”
————
Clear skies and mild temperatures are expected in bucolic Foxboro, Mass., tomorrow night. That’s good news as I will be in Section 131 with my brother-in-law Brian to see the mighty Patriots.
To repeat my picks for this weekend: Patriots 31, Jaguars 21; Packers 28, Seahawks 21; Giants 21, Cowboys 17; Colts 31, Chargers 14.
Joel,
Depends on your spin on where the bogus stories come from
Last updated: 1/11 (8:45 a.m.)
Santana price could be high for Mets
Kevin Kernan of the New York Post writes that the price for Santana is presently too high for the Mets, writing, “The two teams continue to talk and word out of Minnesota yesterday was that, yes, the Mets could snare Cy Young Santana for the right price, but as far as the Mets are concerned, that five-for-one deal is not the right price.” The players involved at the moment are Deolis Guerra, Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber; Minnesota is reportedly requesting prized outfield prospect Fernando Martinez as part of the deal.
Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports that the team that lands Johan Santana may not come from the American League. Christensen writes that the New York Mets may have the best chance at acquiring the lefty: “According to people with knowledge of the discussions, the Mets have offered top pitching prospect Deolis Guerra, along with center fielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber. “The Twins like those players. They’ve told the Mets they’d have a done deal if New York would add prized outfield prospect Fernando Martinez.”
On behalf of all Red Sox fans, please trade Santana to the Mets. Our only goal in this is to make sure the Yankees don’t get him. A lot of Sox fans wouldn’t trade Ellsbury for Santana straight up, that’s how much we love this guy.
From the Boston Herald, using an Associated Press article: Santana speaks, a little
Twins ace still in limbo as spring training nears
By Associated Press
Friday, January 11, 2008
MINNEAPOLIS - The Minnesota Twins can’t escape the attention, not until the status of Johan Santana is resolved.
Pitching coach Rick Anderson was targeted twice by strangers during some Friday morning errands, posed the biggest question in baseball this winter not related to the Mitchell Report:
“What’s going to happen with Santana?”
This is life at the moment for anyone associated with the Twins, as long as the two-time Cy Young Award winner and left-handed ace is still on the roster. Their earlier offer to extend his contract by four years and $80 million was rejected, leaving a trade the likeliest outcome to this saga.
“I wake up in the morning and hurry up and open up the paper to see if anything happened,” said Anderson, who has tutored Santana since 2002, the first year his potential began to show.
Santana has been in Venezuela since the regular season ended, but he recently arrived in Fort Myers, Fla., to start his workouts. In his first published comments this winter, Santana told the local newspaper that he didn’t know what to think about the situation.
“I’m a Minnesota Twin. That’s all I know. It’s up to them. Whatever they have to do is going to happen. It has nothing to do with me at all,” Santana told the News-Press. “I said it from the beginning during the season last year, whatever will be the best for this team and this organization, I’ll agree with that.”
He has a home in Fort Myers, where both the Twins and Red Sox [team stats] work out. The Yankees conduct spring training in Tampa, and the Mets are on the east coast in Port St. Lucie. Boston and the two New York teams are the only clear players in this game-within-the-game against Minnesota, so everyone around the league is waiting to see who will give in first.
One of Twins general manager Bill Smith’s favorite lines of the winter has been some variation of this: “If Johan Santana is our opening day starter, I like our chances.”
But making a trade is still the surest bet. Santana’s agent, Peter Greenberg, said Friday his relationship with Smith has remained strong through this drawn-out process as rumors — both founded and otherwise — swirl throughout the oversaturated sports media market.
Greenberg, in an e-mail, also insisted that he has not demanded to Smith that he complete a deal before Twins pitchers and catchers are scheduled to report on Feb. 17.
Oh, and it’s not just the Twins who are in the spotlight. Mets general manager Omar Minaya was repeatedly asked about Santana when he visited Israel this week. When he got to the airport in Tel Aviv, some kids yelled: “Are you getting Santana?” When he got on a bus near the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, one man yelled: “Go Mets! Have a good year, Omar.”
Anderson doesn’t know which five pitchers are in the rotation yet, but — whether that includes Santana or not — it will be a young group. Francisco Liriano was an All-Star in 2006 before his elbow surgery, but he’s, well, coming off major elbow surgery. Beyond him, Scott Baker, Nick Blackburn, Boof Bonser, and Kevin Slowey will bring varying levels of accomplishment and ability, but little experience.
On Friday, the Twins officially invited to 17 non-roster players to camp including right-handers Casey Daigle and Zach Day, who have a handful of major-league starts to their credit. Day, who was with Triple-A Omaha last year in Kansas City’s system, has pitched for the Montreal, Washington and Colorado. He went 9-8 with a 4.18 ERA in 23 starts for the Expos in 2003.
Anderson chuckled as he recalled a conversation with manager Ron Gardenhire this week.
“He called me the other day after looking at the roster, and he said, ’Andy, I don’t know half of ’em,’” Anderson said. “It will be a lot of different faces.”
Anderson wears every day the Rolex watch that Santana gave him and his catchers to honor one of his Cy Young Awards. After watching another one of his longtime pupils, right-hander Carlos Silva, leave via free agency last month, Anderson has had to brace for the possibility of losing another.
“It’s not just the pitcher and what he brings up there on the mound or to the team every five days,” Anderson said. “It’s the friendship. You’re kind of used to having them around. You’re with them for so long, and you get attached them and all of a sudden they’re gone.”
The only way the twins are going to compete next year is if they get Hughes and cano or lester And Ellsbury,or they can do what the yankees did in 2000 and give half the team steriods.
Beantown!!!
can we just talk baseball and stop bringing up steriods and the 2000 yankees
Senator Mitchell should be getting a lot of praise for exposing the 2000 yankees.
I can’t believe Papi was not on the list. Stop it beantown you don’t want me to go there!!!
Beanie,
Especially when your comments about the 2000 Yankees are WRONG - and you know it.
In response to your nonsense last night and tonight about half the Yankees and the 12 you named mostly wrong, here’s what the Mitchell Report saysWell, Here’s the facts according to the Mitchell Report:
Report does cite Clemens, Neagle and part-timer Canseco (who barely played)
Dan Naulty wasnt on the 2000 team He was out of baseball.
Pettitte didnt do HGH until 2003, when he admits to taking 2 shots.
McNamee said that he acquired human growth hormone from Radomski for Knoblauch in 2001.
As for Grimsley, he didn’t pitch in the 2000 world series and pitched one innings in playoffs against Seattle. The report says Radomski estimated he had engaged in at least seven or eight sales to Grimsley involving human growth hormone, Deca-Durabolin, and diet pills from 2000 through 2003.
Randy Verlarde: not until 2003
Mike Stanley: not until 2003 with Mets
David Justice: supposedly after 2000 world series. He denies it
Glenallen Hill (parti-timer) was accused while with the Giants before he came to the Yankees.
Darren Holmes wasn’t on 2000 Yankees, as you claimed; try the 1998
Now, can you admit you were wrong about the 2000 Yankee team?
:
stop speculating because two can play that game. you know what let’s play. I think that all the 2007 sox did steriods
Regulars:
Jason Varitek
Kevin Youkilis
Dustin Pedroia
Julio Lugo
Mike Lowell
J.D. Drew
Coco Crisp
Manny Ramirez
David Ortiz
Bench:
Eric Hinske
Alex Cora
Jacoby Ellsbury
Bobby Kielty
Doug Mirabelli
Pitchers:
Josh Beckett
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Curt Schilling
Tim Wakefield
Jon Lester
Jonathan Papelbon
Eric Gagne
Hideki Okajima
Mike Timlin
Manny Delcarmen
Javier Lopez
Thank you roundabout! I can’t say it better myself.
I like my list better than Mitchell’s .
Jon,
Come on now, Beanie will start whining and become indignant
Only he can accuse. He was Jeff Nelson was doing steroids on the 2000 Yankees and Nelson wasn’t even named in the Mitchell report; Naulty wasn’t on the team. His errors are endless
Just because some red sox fans are liars doesn’t mean they have the right to lie
Jon
you are an idiot,stop wasting everybody’s time with this bulls**t that your posting.
roundabout
all that information is not from mitchell’s report. you sure you didn’t make it up?
JON:
I’m glad you didn’t put Sox first baseman Chris Carter on your list. I’ve always heard all he does is
catch touchdowns. Oh, that’s a different Chris Carter.
Jeff Nelson?? please tell me your joking. Beantown did you really say jeff nelson?
roundabout says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Beanie,
Yes it’s from the Mitchell report. Did you read the report or even read synopsis on the players?
How can you possibly say Jeff Nelson was juiced when he’s not in the report? You said Naulty and he wasn’t on the 2000 team. Any fool knows Pettitte two two shots of HGH in 2003, not 2000. You are lying. That will not be tolerated.
Here you go - Can you read?!
Go to ESPN and read the report and players
kenny rogers
what is carter doing these days coaching or doing tv??
I saw him on TV one day.
Jon,
here’s what Beanie wrote last night:
Beantown!!! says:
Beantown!!! says:
January 10th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
roundabout
Pettite,Clemens,Justice,Knoblouck,Stanton,Grimsley,Nelson,Canseco,Glen allan hill,Neagle,Darren holmes,Dan Naulty and a few more that I’m forgetting
I guess I proved you wrong.I came up with 12 players off the top of my head.
Jon i don’t remember saying Nelson and if i did i probably meant someone else.roundabout is holding me to that one.
What are you saving my posts now?
Were you guys expecting any local hero’s names being mentioned in the Mitchell report? I held my breath thinking about a few.
Holmes, he wasn’t on the team in 2000 or was he?
let me go look it up.
No Redsox thats for damn sure,mitchell couldn’t find any of their trainers (wink,wink)
roundabout
every team has cheaters,but all im saying is the 2000 yankees had a little too much and i dont care if it was part time players or if the players did it after the 2000 season a cheater is a cheater no matter the time or place.
Beanie
I am not saving your posts. All you have to do is scroll up and your words of misinformation are there for all to see. It’s basic computer scrolling 101
thank god my championships aren’t tainted.
Jon
Nope Holmes was not on the 2000 team either.
hey guy’s howw about a serious question. Who is better in their prime Rivera or Papelpon??
roundabout
you were right everything this fool said is incorrect.
oh and Rivera in his prime is a million times better than Papelpon,not even close!
Beanie
How would you know?
The Mitchell report is essentially based on info from two trainers who worked in NY.. and info on Bonds..
The report doesn’t mention MaGwuire or Sosa. or several others, like Brady Anderson or Brett Boone..
You think that since steroids was all the rage in the 1980s into the 1990s, not a single Red Sox used? Not a single Twins used or Angel? Or Texas Ranger
Isn’t it surprising that aside from Bonds, Clemens, Tejada, the list of “superstars” is small and its mostly second and third rate players?
Mariano was better in his prime.
Geraldo was better in primetim.
(Rivera, get it?)
Papelbon is still a baby. It’s hard to compare. Rivera did it for 11 straight years, including playoffs and world series - lifetime ERA .077
I can’t compare Papelbon to Rivera. He’s great, I would agree to that. Rivera has been the greatest over the longest period time in his era.
roundabout
The redsox have a very strong policy against steroids,ownership does not play when it comes to steroid use,thats why i wasn’t suprised when no edsox was in the list.
roundabout
I think we finally agree on something,your right about Rivera.
I noticed some of the “accused” don’t button the top button of their jersey.
For some reason, that’s a pretty accurate indication.
Beanie,
Do the red sox drug test? If not, what’s the policy. What’s to stop a player from juicing in their homeland during the winter. No one in particular, so don’t read into it..just general discussion
Kenny
or have trouble keeping their caps on their heads
papelpon in his first 3 seasons has a era of 1.62 while riveras was over 3
how about this stat,Rivera in his entire career has given up 49 homeruns in 953 innings.
Beanie
River’s first year his ERA was 5.51; second year, 2,09 and third year, 1.88, then 1.91, then 1.83, then 2.85, then 2.34, thrn 2.74, then 1.66, 1.94, 1.38,
1.80 and last year. 3.15
Rivera has thrown 10 wild pitches in 13 years — 11 if you count his wild throw to second base in the bottom of the 9th during the 2001 series lol
I just read a report here that said among the FA remaining, Mike Sweeny is one of them. Why not go after him? It seems like something to at least look into doesn’t it? I also like Kenny Lofton. Full list here:
Roundabout, just ignore Beantown. He brings nothing to the discussion other than blind man love for the Red Sux.
Frankly, it is sickening having to sift through 10-15 posts between you and him arguing over the Sox and Yanks.
Take it somewhere else please. Let’s talk baseball. Who cares about who did steriods. I will give you a heads up. More likely did them than didn’t and that includes every team in MLB.
TK,
If we can get Sweeney to sign here for next to nothing and he agrees to be a bench/role player type guy, I say go for him.
If not, then I don’t want him. He will most likely be injured most the time and is not worth any more than the vets minimum. By all accounts though, he is a great teammate and leader. Wouldn’t be a bad guy to have on our bench. I wouldn’t mind seeing him come off the bench when we need a big hit sometime.
Surely better than any options we’ve had the last few years there.
[b]test[/b]
No one has posted here in almost 16 hours?!? I really don’t know if I’m believing that- and I’m seeing it.
Bartolo Colon is also on my list of “take a chance on him for the right price” players.
Bartolo Colon is 34 with elbow and arm issues for the past several years. He’s been 7-13 in 28 starts with an ERA topping since winning the Cy Young. Who knows what he brings to the table.
I’d take a pass or give up little for him, if anything.
Will upcoming Twins Caravan have any effect on timing of Johan trade? If Twin’s officials start receiving lot’s of negative feedback from fans, will this speed up trade? Also, TwinsFest starts on the 23rd. Will the Twins want trade completed before 23rd in order to push new young players? IMO the trade will happen later this week. Thoughts?
Hi Fans,
Thanks for all your heart-felt comments on the organization. I just wanted to say that “We hear you!”. We are doing our best to keep our fans satisfied and at the same time building out legacy.
I’d like to apologize for my actions regarding the Santana trade. I have been in way over my head and quite franky, I’ve been scared. So now it looks as though we may have to keep Johan, which I have said all along that won’t be a bad thing.. At least not until the end of the season and you guys aren’t happy with the lame draft picks we make that will more than likely never amount to anything.
Well, there is always the Mets offer! Please keep reading what Twins reporters are saying.. although there opinions of the Mets prospects are totally overblown trying to kiss my *bleep* .. at least I can tell you fans .. HEY, I got 5 players out of the deal. Pheww.. maybe I won’t lose my job.
I’m sorry guys, I really blew it. Don’t worry though, because Carl P. told me I would be getting a raise since we are going to save so much money!
Maybe next time I think about trading an Ace or Allstar, I’ll hire a consultant.. since clearly I am in way over my head.
Good Luck Twins Fans.
-Bill
Yanks have heard voice of reason, will Mets, Red Sox hear it, too?
Sunday, Jan 13, 2008
Bill Madden, baseball columnist for the New York Daily News, believes the New York Yankees, by indicating they’re out of contention, have sounded the call of sanity that, to the Minnesota Twins’ dismay, may well be echoed by the Boston Red Sox and New York Mets.
Wrote Madden: “Think of it: The Twins are looking to get four legitimate prospects back for their free agent-to-be lefthanded ace, after which the acquiring team will then have to reach a long-term contract agreement with Santana, who is said to be looking for six years at $25 mil per. Even if sanity prevails and the acquiring team holds the line at five years and $20 million (which would still make Santana the highest-paid pitcher in baseball), that still would amount to four top prospects plus $100 million — for one player!
“As much as Santana’s presence at the top of the rotation would seemingly solidify any team as a World Series contender, the money plus the prospects is an astronomical risk.”
Source: New York Daily News
I feel really bad for the poor poor Yankees! They’ve overpaid for more players on the downside of their careers than anyone. So, if they have finally pulled their head out of their a**es, well good for them. I personally don’t care if we trade Johan. Let him finish out the year and get two draft picks. I don’t remember hearing all this when Tori was about to fly away for free. If we can’t get what he is worth, then keep him. Insane?? Baseball without a salary cap is what’s insane. The teams with the highest revenue can pretty much buy their way into the playoffs year after year. While Teams like the Twins, Royals, Pirates and the like are called flukes when they make the playoffs. Insane?? Wasting time watching Baseball , now that’s insane! But, I will, just like every other year.
Where is everyone???
Roundabout,
They can talk and yap all they want about “being out of the Johan talks”.
But, all of us know that is not true. It is just a bunch of posturing being done by the Yankees FO and the New York media to try and drive the price down for Santana.
You know it, we know it.
Why has this place gotten so lame?
Wipron: What is so insane is that Minnesota still has a baseball team.
Yapper,
The market sets the price.
Take the Ellsbury’s offer, if he’s still available. You guys seem to think the slap-hitting speedster (a good player, for sure) is the second-coming of Mickey Mantle; he’s not even projected to be Torii Hunter.
Or take the Lester deal. He’s a solid pitcher.
Or are the Twins playing both teams and working on the Mets to add in their two gems.
The Twins need to make the best deal possible. But to sit here and write as if the Twins are virgins, so pure and juts looking to get what YOU think the market brings for Santana, is silly.
Hey, blame the Yanks for downgrading Johan value. Just cause 3 of 30 teams showed serious interest, is Hank Steinbrenner’s fault.
You don’t consider the economics of the situation, do you.
No, I just know for a fact that if they Twins say sure, we’ll take your Hughes deal, that the Yankees will jump on it.
For them to sit and claim they are in and out all the time is sickening when we all know that it is NOT true.
For the record, I don’t care if we get Ellsbury. He was great for his little stint last year, but he is unlikely to produce like that again.
And no, the economics of the situation are that the Yankees have more money than god and they are the ones that screw up the MARKET and baseball’s economics more than any other team in the history of baseball.
“No, I just know for a fact that if they Twins say sure, we’ll take your Hughes deal, that the Yankees will jump on it.”
Actually, they wouldn’t. My source: Hankee Stadium.
They would’ve done this at the winter meetings, but they don’t want to trade Hughes anymore. Hughes has thrown a few times at Legends Field and his stuff has been electric.. Hughes is staying.
Bill made a BIG mistake not taking that deal while he had the chance. When will you Twins folk realize that Hughes was far better than anything else offered? At the end of the Year when all is said and done. Mark my words, this kid is nothing short than a phenom.
THE TWINS NEW CARAVAN PART 3
POHLAD COMES OUT AND JUST SAY’S
“WE GOT OUR NEW STADIUM NOW JUST SUCK OFF”
Yapper,
You must be a mind-reader. You come up with such speculation as fact.
Did the Twins say Yeah to the Yanks’ offer with Hughes? The Twins wanted Hughes. Obviously not. The Twins went back to the Red Sox and asked the Sox to sweeten the pot. That’s fine, but don’t deny what’s been reported several sites and papers.
The Yanks have mixed feelings on trading for Santana - that’s been obvious since the beginning. The Yanks (see Cashman and both Steinbrenners) don’t want to give up Hughes. Remember they first offered Ian Kennedy, but the Twins demanded Hughes. Cashman still opposes trading Hughes and Hal Steinbrenner is not interested in the 7 years 20 plus million dollar cost. Yes, Hank S has been going back and forth.
All that has been out there. SO for ou to say Hank Steinbrenner this or that is disengenuous, at the least.
The Yanks - at least Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner - seem to want to control their spending and go with the kids.
Be honest, what you and some other Twins facns find “sickening” is that the Yankees have not opened up their wallets and given away multiple young prospects for Santana. In your mind it’s OK for the Twins to ask for whatever they want.
You’re pissed because the Yanks are playing hardball and you’re not getting all you want.
If they weren’t willing to give up Hughes, then why has it been reported for what now, 2 months?
The reason I think that about Hank is because of all the other things he says and then goes back on his word.
Hughes will likely be a great pitcher no doubt, but a Sanatan he will never be.
I am not saying we will get a huge haul for him. Not at all. We know what the market is, it seems to be one good prospect plus a bunch of garbage from any team. Let me ask you a question: Would you want to give up Derek Jeter(Yankees golden boy) or A-Rod for Kevin Slowey, Jason Kubel, and Anthony Swarzak? Or would you want more? That is, in a sense what other teams are offering us.
What I want is for the Twins to sign him.
Also, I am pissed because we have a cheap arse owner. An owner that held us all hostage until a stadium was built. It was built so that we could keep our own superstars when the money is needed. Now it is here and what do we get? We get to trade the best pitcher of this era for a bunch of unproven prospects. That is why I am pissed.
Everyone in baseball is wondering why we don’t want to resign him. It is not anyone’s fault other than our owner and former GM Terry Ryan(for not signing him earlier).
Yapper,
You are wrong. The Yankees were willing to give up Hughes - and may still be - but begrudgingly. And it’s obvious the Yankee heirarchy is split on giving up Hughes - that’s been the story from day one. The Yanks realized the target would be Johan Santana and no one in Yankee organization doubts he’s the best.
As for whether Hughes will match Santana some day, now you are Merlin reading into the future. Are you saying Johan is the greatest ever and no one will ever match him - then or now? Lets not get carried away.
As for your final point, I agree whole-heartedly. And I’ve said numerous times the best place for Santana and Baseball is in Minnesota, where he launched his career.
AND that’s why I want to keep Hughes (and Joba, Kennedy, Tabata, Jackson etc). As I have written, I want to watch Hughes and the other kids succeed - or fail - and smile at his successes and groan with the tummy aches.
Just as I wouldn’t trade Jeter (or Pettitte or Rivera or Posada (not that’s why we Yankee fans can deal with the retirement contracts for Jorge and Mariano)) I understand you wanting to keep Santana - 100000000000 percent on your side there.
Yes Roundabout,
I can see your point and I agree, Hughes will be something special. Maybe he will be the next great “ACE” of MLB. I probably do get too carried away on how great Johan is. But watching him pitch here for the last few years has been nothing short of magical. I just don’t want to give that up for a bunch of unknowns, even if one of those guys is Hughes, which, by the way, is the guy I want most out of any of these deals.
Combine him with a healthy Liriano, Baker, Perkins, and whomever else steps up from our systems and we might see one of the greatest rotations in Twins history.
Actually if Liriano comes back 100% healthy and pitches like he did his rookie year, we will forget about Santana in no time flat.
Had the Twins said yes to the Hughes deal at the winter meetings Santana would be in pinstripes and Hughes a Twin..
Bill Smith became greedy.. and he didn’t pull the trigger in fear of pulling it prematurely. This has bitten him now that the best he can get is High School level prospects from the Mets.. Maybe he’ll go back at Boston for Lester or Ellsbury, but who do you think has the strength in the deal now? Surely not Bill Smith..
This will and should go down as a colossal screw up on an inexperienced GM.
Not only are the Twins screwing their fans by being cheap.. but they are also because Bill Smith failed to pull the trigger…
I feel bad for Twins fans.. they talk about Salary Caps to help them when the owner of their Team is richer than the owner of the Yankees..
Will you Yank fans still be gracing our little Twin sites after Johan is traded to the Mets? Or even the mighty Yanks? We will continue to try to muddle along the best we can. I agree with much roundabout has to say, he seems knowledgeable
& unbiased. GoldGlove comes on & attacks our GM. My how East Coast of you. I guess Billy boy should have just rolled over for the Yanks & not had the audacity to try to get the best deal possible when he had the chance to trade with the mighty Bronx Bombers!!! Why don’t you meet beantown at some East Coast site & call each other names . I hope the Twins make the best trade with any NL team they can because Johan would make Yanks or Sox monsters for years. The Twins do hope to win the World Series again.
Coco, your not the bright. Take the tunnel vision goggles off.
Bill blew it, just like when you bluff in poker and it backfires.. yes, that is the name of the game but you cannot deny that he didn’t blow it.
Stop crying coco.. got have some hot chocolate.
Coco says, “The Twins do hope to win the World Series again.”
prove it? By trading Johan?
Glove,
“you can’t deny that he didn’t blow it”?
That means the same as “you can deny that he blew it”
Apparently YOU are not that bright.
And whether Bill Smith blew it or not will be determined when the trade is finalized and NOT BEFORE!
Gold Glove, my bet is that all deals that have been mentioned(or a form of them), are likely still out there. Read Joe Christensen’s article today.
I heard Pohlad doesn’t even have pockets he just puts his wallet up his a_ _ and farts every time he needs a $20
QUOTE
“The Twins need an offensive middle infielder,” said John Manuel, co-editor in chief of Baseball America.
Manuel prefers the Red Sox’ offer topped by lefty Jon Lester [stats]and center fielder Coco Crisp [stats] because he thinks Lester can be a middle-of-the-rotation starter and that the other offer features the Sox selling “high” with outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Each offer includes infielder Jed Lowrie and right-hander Justin Masterson.
QUOTE
“If they thought Jed Lowrie (.393 combined on-base percentage in Double A and Triple A last year) could be a major league shortstop, the Twins have to make that deal,” Manuel said. “The Twins are holding out for more offense. I don’t know what the midpoint is between Jed Lowrie and (Mets untradeable shortstop) Jose Reyes, but that would get this deal done. None of these offers fit the Twins’ needs.”
QUOTE
Jim Callis, executive editor of Baseball America, said that even if the Yankees were to include left-hander Ian Kennedy in their offer or the Mets were to include hitting phenom Fernando Martinez, neither team’s package would be better than the Lester-Crisp package (Callis’ first choice) or the Ellsbury (No. 2 for Callis) offer.
“The Red Sox are in the best position to offer blue-chip players as well as depth,” Callis said. “And, the Red Sox are under less pressure to make something happen because they need Santana less because they have fewer holes.”
QUOTE
“If the Twins wanted to roll the dice, the Mets’ offer (with Martinez) could be the best deal,” Callis said.
Martinez is still three or four years away from being ready for the majors.
“(But his) offensive potential is significant,” Manuel said.
Source: http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/baseba…position=recent
I HEARD POHLAD DOESNT EVEN HAVE A WALLET HE PUTS HIS $$$ UP HIS A _ _ AND HAS BILL SMITH DIG IT OUT
WITH THE TWINS MAKING SO MANY TRADES LATELY CAN WE TRADE OUR OWNER FOR SAY BOSTON’S OWNER.
JB, Sure.. you can have Jeremy Jacobs any time of the day or week. He is a multi billionaire like Pohlad.
Scott,
I hope that expert doesn’t think Ian Kennedy is left-handed. He’s a right-hander..
So far all of these offers have been awful
NO Lester+Ellsbury deals
NO Gomez+Martinez deals
NO Hughes+ anyone good deals
And from what i have been reading, the other teams involved in trade discussions have not allowed Santana to be signed for more than five years.
With no good trade offers, and nearly all other teams not allowing Santana to be signed for more than five years, why cant the Twins sign him? I dont think Santana hates Minnesota, and maybe Santana will understand nearly every team will not sign him for more than five years, so than maybe he will sign an extension at 22mil a year for 5 years.
As i have stated before though, i realize that we have the money to sign Santana,Mormeau,Cuddyer,Young, and others, I do not want Santana signed if we do not then sign Young,Morneau,and Mauer. There is absolutely no excuse though to sign them all though.
Roundabout… it was an error by the paper. It has since been fixed.
You sure taking quite a break from your posting. We invited 2 new pitchers to camp and you have nothing to say about it? I really like you, but i must say i am a little disappointed.
Isaac, To whom are you referring to may I ask?
Hey GoldGlove, quite an intelligently written comeback to my post. You sure put me in my place. It sure is an honor to be able to exchange insightful blogs with a mighty Yankee fan such as yourself. Go find beantown!!! & call each other names. IMO the Twins will trade Johan to Mets late this week. Sorry Yankee & Sox fans.
Scott was referring to LENIII. He stated that he was going on vacation for two weeks- that means his next update should be on (or around) January 21st.
Out of curiousity, how long was Johan in the Astros farm before the Twins snagged him in rule 5?
Coco: I hope the Mets get so the Sox can keep their talent and win the pennant anyway
good q&a from nick cafardo below. says sox may be hoping the mets grab johan.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/16/q-a-with-nick-cafardo-of-the-boston-globe/
if i was going to be traded in a deal for santana i would regret coming here because i would have an owner trying to low ball me “EVERY DAY”
I wish Billy Smith would just give Santana the extension he deserves, trade for Coco Crisp, and get on with the season. Johan IS the Twins! There is a new ballpark and HUGE revenue on the horizon! The new ballpark will sell out every game for YEARS just like Jacobs Field! Don’t trade the best pitcher in baseball!
CHEAP, NON COMPETETIVE, EVIL, SMITHERS, MONTY BURNS, DID I SAY CHEAP, TRADE AWAY PLAYERS WHEN GET GOOD FOR ROOKIES WHO NEED MORE SEASONING TILL THEY GET GOOD THEN TRADE THEM AWAY FOR MORE CHEAP ROOKIES, CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP MONTY BURNS
Oh yeah, get ready for Nathan to depart. Cheap, cheap, Monty Burns
TK2…when was I referring to Len3 may I ask?
Scott,
TK2 really meant that ISAAC was referring to LEN3.
jimmy bee,
Glad to see that anger therapy is working out for you.
Anger therapy yeah right like men have feelings. Socrates are you a feelings kind of person. Haven’t you been hit on the head by a giant flying beer can for having feelings
La Velle’s name is, uh, dragged through the mud on Bill Simmons pod cast from yesterday on espn.com
Its in the last 15 minutes (or so)
Soc, I knew TK2 meant that. I was just bustin him in a joking manner.
or her i should say.
Keep posting Len, you are doing such a wonderful job keeping this blog updated! uh, not.
BAD HANDS (retired)
LEN3 is allowed to take vacation.
He may have a life, unlike you.
Sorry for being imperfect.
Former Miracle Jose Mijares was in a traffic accident in the early hours of Sunday and under went surgery Monday night to repair a fracture in his left elbow. The operation was deemed a success, but it will be 2 to 3 month before he will be able to start throwing again. Tigres
At least Joe C. is out there doing some interesting writting about the twins………..
My top ten:
1. The National - Boxer
2. Spoon - GA GA GA
3. Andrew Bird - Armchair Aporcypha
4. Arcade Fire - Neon Bible
5. Okkervil River - The Stage Names
6. Lucinda Williams - West
7. Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
8. Into the Wild - Eddie Vedder
9. Bruce Springsteen - Magic
10. Bryan Ferry - Dylanesque
Olney talked to a talent evaluator who wondered whether the Twins might be concerned about Johan Santana’s health. Reduced late-season velocity and less use of his slider could be signs.
The trade value for Santana just went down from that Olney piece.
Cuddyer should be traded if at all possible. The Twins have enough outfielders as it is and it would allow the team to be in a better position to keep Santana. Keeping Santana is the key to the Twins winning in the future at their new ballpark. Cuddyer is asking for too much and should NOT be paid what he wants !
LEN III, whats your top 10 CD’s of 2007????
If the Twins can find a way to retain Santana for 4 or 5 years, it is not hard to see a World Championship for them during that time frame. Imagine a pitching rotation of Santana, Liriano, Baker, Duensing, and Slowey for the next few years. The rotation could become absolutely outstanding.
