Santana watch
Posted on January 24th, 2008 – 9:15 AMBy La Velle
Here’s a pretty good story by the New York Times about Santana’s hometown of Tovar, Venzuela. Santana’s father, Jesus, seen frequently at the Dome over the years, is interviewed.
Today will be pretty hectic, as we prepare for this evening’s Diamond Awards banquet down at The Depot in Minneapolis. Many current and former Twins will be on hand, and it will be the first time I get to meet Delmon Young, Brendan Harris and the other new players.
I’m also working on a Santana update for Friday’s paper. Don’t miss it.
484 Responses to "Santana watch"
i am really excited to see D-Young Play
The USA Today Has their Winners and Losers list up for this offseason, and it mentions the Twins, and the Twins awards dinner tonight.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-24-offseason-winners-losers_N.htm
I would imagine tonight will be a surreal experience.
All those honored from last year are gone.
Kirchen or however it’s spelled from ESPN was talking yesterday or the day before about how the Yankees are where he sees Santana…
Today’s the day though. I picked the 24th as the say that the trade would go down so I’ve still got a few hours to hope for Ellsbury, Lowrie, and Masterson (hopefully Bowden or Kalish as well).
The potential “deal” just keeps getting worse by the day.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/01/church-as-part.html
We don’t need another Cuddyer, thank you very much Mr. Smith.
No wonder Johan is so good! His dad is the Son of God. I never realized that before. Silly me.
im wishy washy with that, I mean i’d prefer f-mart over gomez. But church could be decent. He is another cuddyer but whats wrong with a 20 hr. 80-100 rbi guy, with a .260-.300 BA. I guess it would be ok. Just wish we could have gomez and f-mart.
i can’t understand why they’d want church he is another cuddy unless they plan to trade cuddy (moving cuddy to cf has to be a joke). i think we must understand this is taking so long because gardy has to determine if these guys play the game the right way (in the image of punto gardy’s lord)
i wouldnt mind church as a one or 2 year stopgap till revere is ready.
La Velle, I appreciate you trying to keep us in the loop but I don’t see what the point of another Santana update is. He’s either traded or he’s not. The speculation is driving us all stupid.
la velle didnt even tell us about the switch of church and gomez in the deal. the deal looks like its going to be..
martinez church pelfrey guerra mulvey maybe more
Ben, it’s a very short drive for many of us… and one could argue that some of us have already arrived. 
Nothing against Church, he is what he is, but if we’re just looking ’stop-gap’. Why aren’t we looking back to Boston or NYY.
Does Church and Pelfrey (even Heilman) do any more for us than Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/ or Hughes/Cabrera
Here’s the word from mlbtraderumors (as was mentioned earlier)…
“Church As Part Of A Santana Deal?
Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald has some info on a Johan Santana possibility, and it isn’t the usual rehashed stuff. He writes:
A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well….
Would Martinez, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey, and Church get it done? Maybe not a fan-pleaser but you’d have guys who can contribute now and others that can develop into superstars. Would Michael Cuddyer still be a center field candidate if the Twins acquire Church?”
yesterday they were saying we wanted gomez instead of f-mart now the other way around. it seems like every day it’s just more bs. wouldn’t we have 2 rf’s church and cuddy and 3 lf’s monroe, kubal and young? who play cf? f-mart is a rf. confused.
gobble,
Some people (not me) think that Church is a decent CF.
lets say we take a deal of church, f-mart, Pelfry/Mulvey or both, and guerra. Couldnt we then trade for coco in a small trade church for coco so we have a CF. The Bosox are looking for a left handed bat for the bench. I think that would be perfect.
Crisp
mauer
young
cuddy
morneau
kubel/monroe
lamb
harris
everrett
Steve, I don’t think it’s a matter of Church and Pelfrey being any more for the Twins than Hughes and Cabrera or Lester and Crisp… but that Martinez, Guerra and Mulvey (or whoever the 5th player might be) have higher ceilings than anyone the Sox or Yankees were offering to include in their deals.
is ploffee or casilla going to be ready for 09? i think casilla has the better shot. he has the speed we need for shortstop. he could steal 80 bases.
then again so can revere.
Why would the Boston newspaper have inside information on a deal with the Mets? The guys is probably read it on a blog somewhere and thought he’d print it since it’s not the same old story. If it is true and it does go down, I like Church/Fmart better than Gomez/FMart. At least we know Church can play at this level. We have no guarantees with Gomez.
Message to BS:
PULL THE TRIGGER…on the deal, on our misery, etc. 
There is zero chance that Revere is MLB ready for 2009 or even 2010. He’s a 19yr old who played in GulfCoast league. He’s at least 3 or 4 years away.
Sorry, had a pc hiccup and sent that post before it was finished, but it’s not worth finishing and spending time evaluating.
On the other hand, it does represent ‘movement’ and that may make the Yank’s re-think their position a bit as well.
how about a 6 for 2?
santana and span for gomez f-mart church mulvey pelfrey guerra?
gardy hasn’t shown the patience with any young player (except mauer and morneau) to expect them to be much help the first or even second yr. kubal, cuddy, bartlet, casilla and more have all been in and out and up and down. gardy doesn’t like rookies much. i’m guessing they haven’t learned to play the game the right way yet.
Santana’s father, Jesus…
So when people describe Johan’s “God-Given Talent”, they ain’t kidding.
On a serious note: liondragon, as imaginatve as your trades are…please take a step back and consider the reason they sound so good to you.
You’re essentially robbing the other team blind.
You’re trade suggestions may fly in a fantasy league, but in real baseball terms it’ll never happen. A Santana/Span package is essentially a Santana package.
It’s common for fans to take the “garbage” they don’t like and tag them on to a trade. They don’t seem to get question the logic behind thinking one team will want a player that the Twins not only don’t have a need for…but also likely is not going to be any good (Rincon for example)
On a side note…why is it that I haven’t posted all day, yet I get a slow down cowboy message?
Justin -
Interesting thought. I wonder if a guy has ever been traded to 3 teams before opening day.
More interesting - compare Church’s first 4 years to Cuddyer’s - better across the board. And he’s got 2 years less service time. Egads - we may have a bingo here. The plot thickens.
Lion,
You already have a 5 for 1 that the Mets aren’t accepting, and you’re adding Span to entice them to part with Pelfrey or Church (essentially)
…probably not likely
I’m not opposed to Church/Guerra/Mulvey/Martinez/Pelfrey
Church has some potential, and hasn’t really gotten that much of a chance to shine. For this trade to be worth an “F”, someone would have to learn center. I’d rather NOT turn Church around for Crisp, Church is better. He could contribute now and might end up being very productive if given full time duty. Pelfrey could hold down a 5th spot in the rotation, might be enough to give a burn/perkins type more seasoning in AAA.
t,
that slow down cowboy thing is happening a lot right now. second, i was doing a trade simmilar to the haren trade cause thats what it may end of being. a star and a low lvl prospect for 6 guys. so its not fantasy.. this is what people are saying will probably happen
Lion: why do you keep pushing Span? What makes you think that the Mets would want him? He’s junk/garbage/trash…do you think we could somehow pass him off onto another team? Is that your mentality? Why not throw in Punto, Reyes, and Rincon for that matter…
i think if we take pelfrey hes going in AAA. anderson knows hes not ready.. he’ll work on him and when hes ready he’ll send him up. or he will give pelfrey bullpen work (like johan) to work on his stuff
Church, Pelfrey, Humber Martinez and Guerra or Mulvey instead of Humber would get it done for me. Church is capable of playing Center field and his OPS+ is good and he hit 43 doubles, 15 home runs and his OBS is above .340 he is better offensive player than Crisp.
i’ll take church in cf over coco anytime. we’ll give up a little on the defensive side but church playing full time will probably put up .270ish 18hr 85rbi. put those numbers with about the same or better from young and cuddy plus kubel and perhaps monroe filling in at dh. looks a heck of a lot better than lewww, tyner, and rondl for sure. actually looks better than kubel-torii-cuddy to be honest.
reyes is not bad why you wanna get rid of him? in 2006 he posted a under 1 era.
i dont mind getting rid of punto rincon though. just as a salery dump. could save us 7 mil.
T-
I don’t think lion’s trade ideas would work in a fantasy league either. Before you get upset, we’re not making fun of you liondragon. Your trade proposals are just always lopsided.
I would like a Church/Fmart/Guerra/Pelfrey deal. Church would be a much more viable option for CF than Cuddy and he’s an MLB ready player. With Church and Pelfrey Bill Smith could say we’re still trying to contend in 08 and we’d get the Mets 2 top prospects as well. That could work.
Not sure why everyone is so down on Church. He’s had a reasonable amount of success at the MLB level. Why do you think he’s so bad? Here’s another site talking about it:
I just wouldnt be suprised to see the twins turn around and trade for coco also because they have that idea of defense first and play the right way. Just dont be suprised if it happens.
we do have a lot of pitching prospects we could add to johan that are maybe another yr or 2 away and less proven. there still is the matter of roster spots open with a trade like this also. does anyone know how many spots we have open?
I agree with you hook, it is not unreasonable to expect Hunter-type offensive numbers from Church with 500 ABs. Granted Torii had a good offensive year last year, but I think all of us following the Twins the last 10 years know he’s not that impressive an offensive player. I loved him as a Twin, but I was not that sad to see him go. I remember plenty of years of .260/20/85, and pretty non-clutch hitting.
The more I mull on it, the more I think Church could contribute.
patrick,
ya there not fantasy but the twins like to get a lopsided deal. (aj trade) its not really lopsided if you think about it.. we are getting 5 prospects maybe 6 for a superstar pitcher. dont get me wrong but i thought prospects arnt considered proven. even martinez may never make it to the majors..
gobbledygookguy,
i think we have 2 spots open.
accually we have one spot open 
gobble….i read 2 or 3 tops on seth and seth last week as far as roster openings. cant remember the particulars though, gardy’s love of a third catcher always takes and extra spot it seems.
Lion, the folks here are just trying to be realistic. All “reports” suggest what trades can and cannot happen, and give us a baseline on what to expect. Unfortunately, as beautifully optimistic as your scenarios are, they tend to stray away from common logic and all relevant data on the Santana subject. Again, I do love the optimism though
Twinsrumors asks if Bill Smith is stockpiling OF’s because he is asking for two from the Mets?
It is because the Mets have nothing else to offer from their farm system except OF’s and P’s.
Church as a stop-gap in CF for now until the young-uns grow up, then goes to RF when Cuddy’s too expensive/traded or LF if Kubel flames out? Another legitimate lefty HR threat? Hmmmmmmmm…..
I’m with you wrathchild (and BWalsh). I think Church would be a solid addition. Anybody know contract details or have a scouting report? I’m too lazy and my computer at work is too slow to look one up.
did some checking and it looks like lion is right 1 open spot. these pitchers look borderline, bass, cali, depaula, koreckey and sosa of’s jones and mcdonald. a 5-1 trade would mean dropping 3 off so if including them may make it happen you’ll probably lose at least 1 or 2 anyway.
Two things about Church I noticed:
- He’s very weak against lefties;
- A strikeout to walk ratio of 2:1 (two K’s for every walk).
I don’t know if those are two elements of concern or not…they just jumped out at me reading his stats.
Sane, I think that’s where the Mets “power” hitting prospects are and that’s what the Twins are after. If the Mets had a legit powerhitting 3B prospect, I suspect the Twins would have been all over him from the beginning.
I also think that when you’re looking at Kubel, Young, Cuddyer, Pridie, and Church, it wouldn’t be unexpected for a couple of those guys to fail to live up to expectations (or get hurt) over the next couple of years. Better to have too many good OFs than too few… prevents you from having 2/3 of your OF manned by Ford/Tyner types.
Martinez, Guerra and Mulvey are minor leaguers who would not be on our 40 man roster until need protection.
Plus, Korecky and Bass probably would not be claimed if they were sent down at this time of year.
Tyner is pure power. He will be missed.
casual observers question…Mauer has a great arm some speed why not put him in CF and save his body. Find another catcher and move on
Who leads off, if we take the currently rumored deal??
MAuer might be the best option, but i am not sure how i feel about that.
With all of this CF talk, unless we go into ST with a true CF, punto will see innings there in the spring, and if goes well he will play there some this year, gardenhire loves punto and he has said he will play.
sane at what point does a minor leaguer have to be put on the 40 man roster or be left up to being claimed?
I have the same question RUjellis. There is no one to lead off. Mauer won’t be the guy, however Butch Wynegar lead off back in the 70’s at times– so I guess a catcher can lead off– just don’t see it too often
Mauer can’t learn to play CF in a few weeks’ time, if ever. Why take one of the best C’s in the game defensively and turn him in to one of the worst CF’s? Then there’s that whole “find another catcher” thing that isn’t so easy to do.
If Smith trades Santana for Church and Gardenhire plays Punto in CF instead, I suspect Ron will be playing golf by the All Star game instead of managing the Twins. Punto is versatile enough to fill in for a variety of positions, including CF, when a guy needs a rest or you’ve got an injury. He’d have to start hitting a ton to break in to the lineup anywhere (with the possible exception of SS) this season.
Why don’t we try and pick up or trade for a 3rd baseman like Aubrey Huff
jason kendall most recently lead off for pirates, is the only on ethat comes to mind.
Crikket, i know what you mean about punto, but I also think that gardenhire will keep giving him a chance, filling in at all these spots punto will still play 140 games this year. Gardenhire believes in him, and i dont think he will get fired because he always has the cloak of punto’s defense to hide behind. The same cloak that will keep everett playing. Which is what bothers me about these average players we acquire.
I wanna know why all you guys just believe that the twins are gonna trade Santana. Its NOT gonna happen they are gonna F this up just like they always do and lose him at the end of the year for only draft picks.
If I am wrong I will admit it but I don’t think I will be wrong.
we will see shawn we will see
La Velle
What ever happened to Hector Pellot?
Was he not rumored to be a possible twins target?
Martinez/Guerra/Pellot/Mulvey/Church?
Shawn you are so right and I know they will efenhimer this one up. see they don’t want to pay for what we will receive it is much more economical to take the draft picks and keep the salary’s off of pohlads pennny pinching budget
jimmy bee-
because we already have. His name is Mike Lamb.
If Punto plays in any role other than benchplayer, I’ll picket outside of Gardy’s house until he sees reason. Seriously, I’ll be so pissed if Punto gets regular playing time.
Harris might be able to lead off.
Shawn I still like that better.
What if we win go into the playoffs and win a series or two, all of a sudden revenues jump and their might finally be a tiny surplus of money for us to resign johan.
Obviously a dream, but we are trading away actual production for future potential production. We are trading actual production and in return we get to cross our fingers and hope for the best.
here is a penny and remember don’t spend it al in one place
Right On The Money Jimmy Bee.
mauer can lead off his ave and obp are good enough not going to steal many bases. remember after the first inning the #1 hitter may not lead off again. he is the highest ave hitter and not an rbi guy so it could make sense.
mauer
harris
young
morneau
cuddy
church
kubal/monroe
lamb
everitt
I hear that Mauer’s size will hinder him long term at C….and he will have to move to a less taxing position…He is young and a great athlete wouldn’t he learn quick? I’ve heard 1B or 3B C seems to me to be the hardest position to play and the most physicaly demanding as good at C he may be isn’t his bat worth more?
why are you guys still making a deal of pohlad? I agree with you guys but we have to let it go, unless your a newly annointed twins fan, its something that you have to come to accept. He is running the twins like a business man would run a franchise.
I want to re-sign johan, but i would not under any circumstance give a pitcher a 6 or 7 year deal. Its not a smart baseball move. So if that is what johan will only sign for then it doesnt matter how much money an owner has.
Rujellis
That might be an option but thats gonna depend on if Santana is willing to sign. Also the only way we compete this year with the Tigers and Indians is
If Mauer is back to form
If Morneau is back to form
If Liriano comes back healthy
If our young pitchers perform
If our new guys perform
And thats a lot of Ifs to take into account, What are the odds they all happen.
if Ryan Church is involved in the deal, i believe he is the CF, and the leadoff hitter..
i think the twins need to try and get a middle infielder in the Johan trade as well.
so, Martinez/Guerra/Pellot/Mulvey/Church for Johan.
thats my opinion
Perhaps the twins are going to Move Mauer to 1st in 2010. then they will trade morneau or lose him for draft picks.
just throwing this out there because of how this offseason has gone!
i really hope that is not the case, and i doubt it is. haha
I never said we should sign santana, unless he will sign for 5 yrs, I would never give a pitcher a 6 or 7 yr contract. I think they should trade him I just don’t think they will.
Mauer playing CF and leading off? Maybe he was hurt, but for the second half of 07 he had the speed of Tony Batista. Imagine how many times he’d be cut down at home after an ill-advised green light from Scotty Ullger.
I’m amazed at how some of you still are including Martinez and Gomez in the same deal, as well as Pelfrey and Guerra in the same deal. Its not happening. Get it through your icy skulls already.
Looks like the new deal is:
Martinez, Pelfrey, Church, and Mulvey.
Enjoy!
Haha Patrick, I’m with ya there, I’ll picket Gardy with ya.
I *think* Harris is a little poor on the OBS, and has a crap BB/K ratio, so he might be better in the two hole or some pop at the bottom of the lineup. I could be wrong, I’m basing this assumption on memory. I’m guessing whoever ends up playing CF will lead off.
This deal will be done by tonight. There are rumblings in NY that the Mets have reached out to several free agent veterans to play RF.
I am in on the Pickett line. There is NO reason punto should play except for late inning defense purposes.
gobble,
Ruling out special circumstances, the simplified answer is that a player must be protected after five years in the minors.
Reez,
I too noticed that Church is weak against lefties, But could we platoon him with C. Monroe.
If you look at the stats…
Church against righthanders:
2007-.287/.360/.506 with an OPS of .866
2005-2007-.282/.359/.497 with .856 OPS
Monroe against lefthanders:
2007-.271/.309/.496 with .805 OPS
2005-2007-.281/.332/.481 with .813 OPS
Could be a decent combo…if we can live with a little less fielding.
Church As Part Of A Santana Deal?
Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald has some info on a Johan Santana possibility, and it isn’t the usual rehashed stuff. He writes:
A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well….
Would Martinez, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey, and Church get it done? Maybe not a fan-pleaser but you’d have guys who can contribute now and others that can develop into superstars. Would Michael Cuddyer still be a center field candidate if the Twins acquire Church?
read ralph it says pelfry maybe included in the deal as well. We are just going by what the writters say.
ralf you can stick with those 4 but you’ll be adding at LEAST one more prospect if this is gonna happen
Ralf, I think since Guerra is really the only SP the Mets are offering with a legit high ceiling, his inclusion is mandatory. It may be 4, but Guerra will be in there, I guarantee you that.
Ralfy evidently has his finger on the pulse of “Mets Nation.” He’s obviously a Mets insider. What he fails to comprehend is the absolute fact that his Mets are woefully lacking in QUALITY starting pitching.
Good luck contending for the NL East crown, Ralfy boy…Oliver Perez, El Duque, etc.? PUH-LEEEESE.
Yohan Pino
Anthony Swarzak
Nick Blackburn
Brian Duensing
Oswaldo Sosa
jeff manship
kyle waldrop
tyler robertson
do we really want/need mulvey?
obviously we are taking guerra but i think we should substitute a position player for mulvey
we need to build up the hitting in the minors..
and we have enough kids down there that are similar to mulvey..
dont we?
I once heard that Pohlad runs his home like an Amish community and that he doesn’t believe in things like electricity and new appliances and con founded gizmo’s like tv’s and dew hickeys like dvd players. central heat and air haaaah that’s a joke. He drives his horse and buggy over and he cuts down his neighbors trees in the middle of the night to heat and light his cardboard cabin. Remember folks a penny pinched is a penny earned
i really want to know what the twins are going to do with all these young middle tier starting pitchers?
blackburn, duensing, bonser, baker, slowey, perkins, mulvey(?), pelfrey(?), swarzak, manship, sosa, waldrop, rainville…do any of these guys project out to be an ace or a top of the rotation guy? I am not saying I dont like stock piling pitching, but it does make me wonder why we have so many similar seeming pitchers, are they being groomed for trade bait?
we obviously cant use them all.
“Shawn says:
January 24th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I am in on the Pickett line. There is NO reason punto should play except for late inning defense purposes.”
I’ll do you one better, Shawn:
There is NO reason Punto should play unless it’s for my hometown Legion team.
“why are you guys still making a deal of pohlad? I agree with you guys but we have to let it go”
haha that would be nice. It will never happen though. Complaining about Pohlad is the only subject that can compete with Santana posts on this blog.
They’ve said multiple times that Joe won’t be moved to a different position. That kind of narrow mindedness really annoys me. He’s a giant and he’s still growing. Having him crouch behind the dish practically every day is only going to exacerbate his health issues. I know he’s an excellent defensive catcher, but you have to see the big picture. Gardy refuses to listen to reason (see: Punto).
you beat me to it MH
i completely agree with you
jimmy bee: keep up your anti-Pohlad rants…they’re HILARIOUS!
The deal is all but done. Church is definitely involved.
i once heard that Pohlad runs his home like an Amish community and that he doesn’t believe in things like electricity and new appliances and con founded gizmo’s like tv’s and dew hickeys like dvd players. central heat and air haaaah that’s a joke. He drives his horse and buggy over and he cuts down his neighbors trees in the middle of the night to heat and light his cardboard cabin. Remember folks a penny pinched is a penny earned
If it’s a choice between Mulvey and a position player with similarly moderate upside, I take Mulvey. Pitchers are always going to be worth more to your organization than position players. There will always be demand for them. The key is being willing to trade your surplus for position players that will contribute when you need to (a failing on TR’s part IMO).
Frankly, if Pelfrey, Guerra, Martinez and Church are in the deal (and I’m still not sure the Mets would do that), I wouldn’t much care what else, if anything, was included. If the Twins need 5 guys, I’d trust their scouts to finger the best one available over any opinion I might have.
if we are going to cross our fingers for someone to develop, we should be getting a position player back and hope that they turn out decently.
Patrick, I know, there isnt much else to talk about, haha.
it just gets tiresome because it becomes an excuse as to why we cant win. It may be part of the problem but not shelling out gigantic deals isnt the biggest problem our team has.
RU
unless they twins feel that they are getting a kid from the mets to put into Johan’s spot in the rotation
baker/slowey/bonser/liriano
i really think it could be a blackburn.. perhaps perkins..
but if mulvey will be that 5th man in the rotation then i understand why we take him..
Many of the pitchers you mentioned may already be hitting their ceiling, ie Waldrop, Rainville,Sosa and Pino.
The reason for the saying “you can’t have enough pitching” is that some fail, some are injured and some ain’t got it.
Kind of off-topic but I wish the Twins’ owner was a guy like Jason Robards in “Little Big League”.
Now, it’s a little daffy leaving the team to your grandson who installs himself as manager and benches Tim Busfield because he’s mad at him for dating his mom….
Sorry—–I’m back now. That was a weird trip.
you know.. what if we trade our pitching surplus after this trade (if we do this trade) and get b.j. upton or chase headly.
or maybe even longoria of jay bruce
JimCrikket - I agree with you completely. We all talk about all these prospects and young guys as if we’re experts. We’re not. I’m totally willing to trust the Twins to pick the four or five best guys. That doesn’t mean they’ll be right in all cases (which is impossible with a bunch of prospects), but their knowledge is MUCH higher than that of anyone posting here.
From what I’ve been reading, Church intrigues me. He was having a ROY season in 2005 before getting hurt, and prior to that was a #3 ranked prospect. He’s always had a decent to good OBP and OPS, and he seems to be a good fielder.
Ralf
Are you implying that you would be OK with a NY Mets deal that is only Martinez, Pelfrey, Church, and Mulvey? I would like to here why you think that deal would be better than any of the two Red Sox options OR the NY Yankees deal? I can not believe we are going after that package. Pelfrey is GARBAGE and you would be ok if that is the only pitcher we get back for Santana? We NEED Heilman AND Guerra from them
ACCEPTABLE METS PACKAGES
Gomez,Martinez,Heilman,Guerra
Martinez,Church,Heilman,Guerra,Pelfry
There is no way the Twins would accept a Martinez, Pelfrey, Church, and Mulvey. Not when yankees and red sox still have way better offers.
Twins will not accept church/martinez/guerra/pelfrey
this is just my opinion, but how does this offer stack up to anything the sox/yanks were offering
we get a couple high ceiling prospects and some suspect everyday help
i do not see this deal happening with those 4 players
atleast, not with the mets!
Lion: no team is trading their young superstar, like a longoria, upton, or bruce. Who do you propose we send for one of those players? Reyes? Rincon? Punto? Span?
if they dont wanna give up heilman do this..
martinez church guerra pelfrey mulvey and a mid lvl prospect.
no TA,
i thought doing something like this..
boof sosa duensing rainville punto for longoria or bj upton.
jimcrikket
I dont agree because we have other needs. If we had position players to call up when someone gets injured than it wouldnt be a problem. Each year we rely on batistas and cirillos, this year its monroe. Why? Because we have no depth in the minor leagues.
And you are right that we dont trade our pitching prospects, but we arent talking about top of the line pitching prospects, we ar talking about mid-tier guys. The type of pitchers that most teams already have quite a few of. We may have more than just about any other team, but these arent the type of guys that are going to force teams to trade position players for.
There is a high demand for good starting pitching, but i think there is a higher demand on position players. Look at the mets, a team that regardless of what met fans say, need starting pitching, but yet they are willing to give up on some of there top pitching prospects. The premium is on top level pitchers(johan).
Which is why unless we are blown out of the water, its hard for me to find accept this lesser value for johan.
im guessing the twins are hoping one or two of these mid-level pitching prospects catch fire and turn out to be the real deal…no offense to J.D. there…lol in the next year they should have a pretty good idea if there’s a legit stud in there. don’t see them moving any of them till next year though
If we trade with the Mets can we some how include Heilman. How about Martinez,Guerra,Heilman and Church?
The problem with this trade is it will be essential that Liriano will recover fully to previous form. Are we confident that this will happen?
Otherwise, we have no real ace. That’s same concern I have with the Ellsbury trade.
Tyler - Pelfrey is definitely not “garbage”. In fact, he’s very similar to Garza. Similar stuff, similar slow starts in MLB after high rankings. They were even drafted the same year (Pelfrey well before Garza). A lot of the same people that were upset to see Garza get traded have no interest in Pelfrey. Yet their skills and career paths have been similar. Pelfrey’s MLB stats have been worse, but he’s pitched 90 innings total!
why would we want ryan church?
he isnt a free agent until 2012
do we really want/need him for that long?
he is not a player we want unless we trade him as soon as we aquire him
metsblog fans are having the orgasm of the yr. over this happening and keeping gomez. does church play the game the right way? i don’t know a thing about him any more insight?
Lion,
How about Rincon and Punto for Albert Pujols and Colby Rasmus?
How about taking your medication?
socrates,
already took it no seriously i was doing a real trade idea… trade a surplus of our pitching for the position players we need. or.. we can ship off 4 of our pitchers for bedard?
church had a .272 avg
more of a corner outfielder
hit 15hr’s so has some pop
43 doubles
where’s craig so we can stop giving lion all the grief! at least lion means well, even if he’s a bit dilusional…
why don’t we try to pick up sosa at a very cheeeeeap price for dh
i was trying to be realalistic. just like the mets fans on this blog.. LOL
If you say Craig 3 x while looking into the miror he will appear
no seriously. im trying the best i can.. im not trying to act stupid. im just trying to give ideas. maybe we can get someone like bedard with our surplus of pitching prospects. or maybe get someone like chase headly with a couple pitchers.
no room for sosa
craig, craig, craig
jimmy bee if they are gonna do that I would rather them go after Mike Sweeney instead. and if he stays healthy that would be a big bat in the order
did someone call for me?
You mean does he pop out constantly and fail to lay down bunts when needed, gobble? I’m not sure.
Lion,
Sorry,
I know you mean well.
thanks
we sosa but he is under the alias of craig monroe
Tyler,
You beat me to the punch with including Heilman.
If we trade with the Mets,I would like to see it be the second option that you have listed.
We could then make Heilman the closer.Freeing us to deal Nathan.
the love is flowing in the air (ahhhh)
who called for me? liondragon? what do you need from the magic mirror today?
omg…..
jimmybee,
i dont like your jokes anymore.. they seem to come true… (uh oh…)
What’s the general consensus as to whom our top prospects are? When discussing possible trade scenarios (e.g. BEDARD), we can start with at least of our top prospects. Identify those two AT LEAST, and there’s your starting point…not Rincon, not Punto, not Span, etc.
The top Twins Prospect IMO would have to be Robertson.
TA,
duensing, rainville, fox, boof, benson, parmelee, ploffe, robertson, want me to go on?
i dont need you craig…. i thought jimmy bee was just joking…
well.. im already called out, you have to ask me something.. ahh the love….
sosa for our cheap dh
Okay, take the top two or three and see if the Orioles would even CONSIDER the deal. My point is this: NO ONE wants Rincon, Punto, or Span, especially for someone like Bedard.
i just got done reading the mets blog comments and i gotta tell ya they are just overvalueing there prospects. read this one I swear I just lost 50 million braincells just reading it. It made me dumber.
I like Church, but if he is the key to the deal, it was nice knowing you. It will require some more quick retooling, but there are s/t options out there for RF that can get the job done.
I can’t see Pelfrey going though. He is just about ready to bust out. Hey, a year ago he was being (favorably) compared to Hughes, and for all the bashing he gets, he is still a top young pitching prospect.
To me, If Church and Pelfrey were in the deal, then Guerra and F Mart aren’t.
Something like Pelf + Mulvey + Church is as good (and ML ready or close to ) as any of the other rumored offers.
Something more like Church + Mulvey + Gomez + 1 more guy not named Guerra or Martinez would be nice!
hahahahahahaha yeah right
ok im done faking craig for the day.. thought that would be funny. seriously though jimmy bee, we dont want craig comming out for real.. thats bad news..
other than maybe robertson we dont ahve top talent in the minor leagues. MAybe benson and parmelee but they are very young and very dificult to predict…i.e. fernando martinez
after that we have some quality but largely uninspiring starters.
We would be in the same position the mets are in…quantity over quality. And the twins will not give up either in a trade.
Tyler,
You Twins fans are being entirely unrealistic. You’re only setting yourself up for disappointment.
how about trade away duensing and boof for headly?
that sounds pretty fair…
Right, I think there’s a real absence at AA and AAA of quality, game-changing prospects. The “potential” all exist in A ball or lower.
liondragon you had questions you said the name he appeared. ask ask ask. pohlad for president
Justin, i agree…but i also think every organization overvalues their prospects thats the key to getting other teams to want them. And keep the price down.
We do it too. Its all part of the trade creating environment. Its why GM’s cant listen to us fans.
With all of this trade talk we have to remember that the mets are trading not only for the player but also the contract. For some it doesnt matter, but the teams have leverage in knowing that santana is a free agent after next year. If he would accept a trade to the mets now, they will probably high on his list next offseason.
“We do it too. Its all part of the trade creating environment. Its why GM’s cant listen to us fans.”
Hence trade offers for Bedard that include such names as Punto, Rincon, Boof, and Span
Carl R. Pohlad (born August 23, 1915, in West Des Moines, Iowa) has been the owner of the Minnesota Twins baseball franchise since 1984 (succeeding Calvin Griffith). As owner of the Twins, Pohlad has been widely criticised for both a seeming eagerness to allow the team to be eliminated in league contraction and a failure to spend enough of his immense wealth on improving the team.[1] He has been defended as an owner in his willingness to continue to operate the team while allegedly losing several million dollars each year (in 2005, Pohlad broke even solely because of revenue sharing).[citation needed]
In 1997, Pohlad almost sold the Twins to North Carolina businessman Don Beaver, who would have moved the team to the Piedmont Triad (Greensboro - Winston-Salem - High Point) area of the state.[citation needed] The defeat of a referendum for a stadium in that area and a lack of interest in a move to Charlotte killed the deal. (Beaver is currently a minority owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates.)[citation needed]
Pohlad is also the Vice President of Pohlad Companies, which owns several companies both large and small, including Marquette Financial Companies, United Properties, River Road Entertainment, Stanton Group Holdings[2], Inetium, Arcadia Solutions, KTTB FM (B-96) Radio Station (through Northern Lights Broadcasting, a holding company[3]), and JB Hudson’s Jewelers[4] in the Twin Cities, as well as a controlling interest in PepsiAmericas, the second largest bottling group in the United States.
Pohlad grew up in Valley Junction, Iowa (now known as West Des Moines, Iowa). In 1934, he graduated from Valley High School. He attended and played football for Compton Junior College in Southern California for a short time. Bing Crosby saw him play football and recruited him to play for his alma mater Gonzaga University in Washington. Pohlad attended Gonzaga but dropped out after the football season of his senior year. He was drafted to serve in WWII, and served from 1943-1946. Pohlad fought in Europe and spent time in France, Germany, and Austria. He was wounded in battle, and was awarded the Purple Heart and a Bronze Star Medal. After the war he returned to Iowa, married Eloise O’Rourke Pohlad and later moved to Minneapolis, MN. Over several decades, he built a banking empire, finally selling Marquette Bank to First Bank Systems (later formed into U.S. Bancorp) in 1992.[1] Forbes ranks him tied for the 107th richest person in the United States, with a net worth of 2.6 billion dollars.[2] Pohlad owned a part of the Minnesota Vikings from the mid 1980’s to 1991.
Pohlad’s wife, Eloise died in 2003. They had three sons during their 56-year marriage: James, Robert, and William.
well if we are in serious negotiatons w/ the mets , you gotta figure hank and the yanks will be back into the bidding by this afternoon…maybe b.s. did know what he was doin afterall
ralf
I agree that some deals are slanted, but lets not pretend that “unrealisticness” is only on the twins side. Some mets fan have some pretty amazing ideas of their own.
Ralf as the mets insider here today
what deal do you consider fair? maybe you already mentioned it, but jsut a quick refresher please?
ralf
you met fans are being unrealistic
your only setting yourself up for a huge disappointment
lion,
that headley wouldnt be too far off(still not quite fair value wise), but i just dont think padres get rid of headley, we are tlaking about one of the top prospects in the league right now…ditto for bruce and longoria…teams project them to be impact players and without getting an impact player in return, it wouldnt sit well with the fan base…
i.e imagine trading mauer a couple of years ago or liriano before he got hurt
The Mets deal is the biggest bunch of garbage I’ve ever seen unless they include BOTH of their outfield prospects. They are getting the best pitcher in baseball, for christ sakes, why is this so difficult?
7/140 million dollars
RUjellis,
Based on a number of factors, including Santana’s contract status and the other offers currently reported:
1. Martinez, Church, Pelfrey, Mulvey, C prospect
Thats 1 top 10 prospect, 1 top 20 prospect, 1 top 100 prospect, a solid ML’er with 3 years left before FA, and a crap shoot of a C prospect.
The problem I see here is you guys completely undervalue some of the Mets prospects. I don’t blame you per se, it really just comes from a lack of knowledge, but nonetheless, people here are still devaluing some of these guys. For instance, Pelfrey is a high 1st Rd draft pick that was rushed to the MLB. He really did start to turn the corner in the second half of last year. His floor is a solid #3 and his ceiling is Brandon Webb. If the Mets had kept him in the minors for 2 years, people would be drooling all over themselves for this guy.
You guys can continue to believe what you want but I’m just telling you, you’re setting yourselves up for disappointment.
MH,
I’m not going to be disappointed one bit. As long as the Mets keep 1 of Gomez and Martinez, and 1 of Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey, I’ll be just fine.
All Strib baseball blog participants,
If you go to Twinsfest, don’t have Delmon autograph a bat. He might throw it at you. Just a warning, because I care about you.
ralf,
exactly
so the twins get guerra, martinez, pellot, mulvey, church..
done deal..
twins are happy, twins fans are happy..
and your happy
Ralf - Hey, I’ve been touting Pelfrey for a couple of weeks now. I think he could be as good as Garza is going to be.
However, I’m thinking the deal will be Church, Martinez, Guerra, Pelfrey. I know you don’t think Guerra will be in there, but from pulling together what I’ve read from multiple sources I think you’re wrong. It’s possible the Twins will take Humber or Mulvey instead of Pelfrey, though.
Ralf,
If a deal goes down, I suspect you’ll get that wish:
“I’m not going to be disappointed one bit. As long as the Mets keep 1 of Gomez and Martinez, and 1 of Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey, I’ll be just fine.”
You are likely to keep Gomez and Humber. But the others could be gone including Guererro
A new idea- (and this has to be better than Mauer leading off and in CF). How about Casilla as a base stealing, top of the order CFer? Great speed, strong arm, etc. I know he is supposed to be a strong middle IFer, but he always made me nervous with the more instinctive or thinking aspects of the role. The outfield may be a better fit. ??????????????
oh danget the real craig is back.. danget. shouldnt have said his name 3 times..
ya that craig wasnt me i guess the real craig is back… so.. is it the loving craig or the craig that wants morneau traded?
Church can’t play CF. Just thought I’d mention that in case any one is confused.
longoria and bruce are top 5 prospects. the last ranking i saw had antonetti #37, fast less power 3b or 2b and headley at #84 a 3b with power. the padres need and are looking for a corner of. if we get church cuddy, who now makes to much money for our tight wad team, could be traded for one of these guys or a combination of guys. the padres have a log jam of prospects at 3b and if.
Lenny,
It may be possible, but I don’t think the Twins are ready to give on him as the infielder of the future…and I don’t think he fits the bill in terms of helping us in ‘08 as the CF.
Denard will be just fine in CF.
its possible, i doubt it helps this year…judging a flyball from 350ft away is not the most natural thing to do. I agree about casilla speed and arm, but learning angles, eliminating false steps, turning your back to a ball and finding it again(especially in a dome) arent exactly intuitive skills.
And then there is always the issue of his hitting, and most of his decision problems were on the base paths not in the field.
If we wanted to give him another two years i think it would be doable but not this year.
Instead of trying to trade for Chase Headley, why don’t the Twins sign Dallas McPherson for a cheap deal? I haven’t looked at the numbers, but I bet their minor league stats are similar.
Lenny,
The problem with Casilla as a base-stealing leadoff man is that until he learns more about baserunning, he may steal 2nd - from 3rd.
craig, pridie will be just fine in center before span
craig span will be fine in cf in aa ball!
Casilla never played so much as an inning in the OF in the minors. Not saying that would preclude the possibility completely, but it’s an indication of it being highly unlikely, I think.
Less likely than him possibly beating out Harris for the 2B job. If this Mets deal goes down, Gardy may have to choose between being forced to lead off the better defender (Harris) or the better fit at lead-off (Casilla) booting a few more balls at 2B.
well if this trade does go through the twins may turn around and trade for coco so dont be suprised to see coco in a twins uni on opening day.
“well if this trade does go through the twins may turn around and trade for coco so dont be suprised to see coco in a twins uni on opening day.”
Barf…
Haha, in my hast I did not qualify my answer. I’m 99% sure:
Guerra and Pelfrey won’t be in the same deal.
Guerra and Martinez won’t be in the same deal.
Martinez and Gomez won’t be in the same deal.
So MH, you’d probably have to switch out Guerra for Pelfrey in your deal.
Span could be included in a deal to the Mets-I heard they need some bat boys.
Church looks a lot better than expected, upon further inspection.
ralf do you work in the mets front office? or are you 99% sure based on speculation?
Keiunta Denard Span
He will be our center-field man
He has plenty of speed
And all the hitting we need
Fielding is his game
He will be in the Hall of Fame
Keiunta Denard Span
He will be our center-field man
Church would be a serviceable CF until Martinez is ready.
guerra and martinez offer no mlb ready help for atleast 2-3 years
pelfrey is not phil hughes or john lester..
he could be a #2 starter if you are lucky
he is more then likely a #3 #4 guy
church is not a CF,
crisp/melky are. crisp/ melky give you solid defense in center
lowrie/masterson are close to being mlb ready
so again
martinez/guerra/mulvey/pellot/church
if anything the twins walk about with pelfrey/church/martinez/guerra
its 2 kids with high ceilings, and adequate mlb help..
although, between the mets/sox/yanks
the mets are offering up the WORST MLB Ready Help.
thus they need to give up better prospects..
guerra/martinez/pelfrey/church/pellot
Ralf,
how can you be so sure that
guerra/martinez/pelfrey wont all be in the same deal??
you can’t..
and it wouldnt surprise me one bit..
MH- Guerra/Martinez/Pelfrey at a min. need to be part of the deal. Despite Ralf speculation BS. i agree the Mets deal isn’t the best, but sounds like other offers are shrinking
Be prepared to be surprised then. You may hear something as early as today.
“Ralf says:
January 24th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Be prepared to be surprised then. You may hear something as early as today.”
Ralf is an insider, evidently.
look ralf is just giving his opinion, its no different than us giving him ours…or craig dating denard span.
Ralf has 50% chance of being right.
And we are not trading with the mets for major league ready talent. As i said before, we are trading hoping these guys pan out. Its all about the give and take…if each of these guys lives up to their vast potential then we get the steal of the trade. If they dont then we traded the best pitcher in baseball for mediocre talent, hence why i commend smith on taking his time.
Ralf’s real name is Omar Minaya
MH,
Do mean Church would not make a good CF rather than “is not a CF”. Church played 41 games in centerfield last year.
Why could we not put D. Young in CF and Church in LF. Would that not make more sense? I think Young could be a decent CF.
Looks like I may be the one who is surprised. The names I’m hearing now are:
Guerra, Gomez, Pelfrey, and Church
I’m actually shocked. From what I understand, they were pretty firm on not including Pelfrey and Guerra in the same deal. This may be to save Martinez from the deal.
Found this interesting for a number of reasons. It’s from Jerry Crasnick’s article in ESPN.com about some of the Free Agents still available:
“KYLE LOHSE: The longer Lohse fails to find a suitor to meet his asking price, the more it looks as if the Seattle Mariners panicked and overpaid when they signed Carlos Silva to a four-year, $48 million deal in December.
Amid speculation that Lohse’s price continues to drop, an official with one big league club said that agent Scott Boras still wants three years and $33 million. Given Lohse’s 63-74 record, 4.82 career ERA and reputation for underachieving, that looks like a pipe dream at this point.
If the Mets fail to pull off a Santana trade, indications are that Lohse — not Livan Hernandez — is their top free agent fallback. But that November buzz about Lohse seeking Gil Meche-caliber money seems like a long ways away.”
First, I agree… Silva ought to be on his knees thanking his agent for getting him the deal he did, when he did. Remember when everyone was saying Silva and Lohse were the top couple of FA SPs on the market?
Second… if Lohse is indeed the Mets’ preferred back up plan to obtaining Santana, then Smith should be holding the Mets up for every bit of talent he can get. Just the thought of Lohse being the guy the Mets rely on to contend makes me laugh. The guy folded under the pressure of playing ball in Minnesota… can you even imagine that personality in the NYC market? If Minaya decides the asking price for Santana is too high and places his team’s hopes of contending (not to mention his job, potentially) on Lohse, all I can say is ‘lotsa luck, Omar’.
i still think all deals that were there are still there….it is possible the yankees wont include hughes but dont bet on it…they will do the previously discussed deal. Boston hasnt pulled any deals, they said hey let us know when you make up your mind.
Its why i cringe when people wanted us to make this deal 2 months ago, yeah nothing has increased but there has been no evidence other then Big Hank to suggest these deals have decreased.
not that I’m buying into Ralf’s speculation, but the idea of that deal just made me vomit in my mouth.
My OF picks for 2008:
LF Darnell McDonald
CF Denard Span
RF Delmon Young
Should be a solid OF until Ben Revere is ready.
Darnell McDonald has earned a chance.
I agree with RU Jellis: Pridie will be fine in CF.
Sign Santana LT, and let’s go to Spring training!
and what do you think of that deal, Ralf
how does gomez/guerra compare to martinez/mulvey
I’d take Gomez/Guerra. At worst Gomez becomes Willy Taveras. Guerra is going to be a stud.
craig don’t you think they should trade young? maybe get tyner back?
LF is so vast in the dome, the Twins almost need a 2nd CF. The turf is so quick that the fielders have to be swift to keep the balls from scooting into the gap. Speed is essential. The lack of speed in the OF was part of what sunk the Twins ship in 2007.
I got a buddy in NYC that is a die hard Mets fan. This is what he told me in regards to the Martinez/Guerra/Pelfrey trade speculation:
“I think Martinez is going to be great, I thik palfrey will be your closer in a yr, and I think Guerra will wind up being something. You may be surprised by returns on that trade, especially if church turns out ok or if you can trade him for something in the future”
thanks, whats your best/worst case scenario for martinez?
admittedly i am on the fence, guerra offers an Ace prospect, something we lack in our minor leagues, but martinez offers us a position player superstar, something we lack…undestandably we wont probably get both, but it is an interesting debate the Cy-Young vs. the MVP, haha
if the mets need a RF would they be open to expanding it to include cuddyer do you think?
Carl R. Pohlad (born in a chicken coop August 23, 1815, in Western Hebrewville, Iowa) has been the owner of the Minnesota Twins baseball franchise since 1984 (succeeding Calvin Griffith). As owner of the Twins, Pohlad has been widely criticised for both a seeming eagerness to allow the team to be eliminated in league contraction and to be greedy and take twins fans on a chhheeeeeep thrill ride for losing at no cost and not spend enough of his immense wealth on improving the team.[1] He has been a miserly owner in his willingness to continue to operate a thrifty and cheeeap team. In 2005, Pohlad broke even for the season by stealing copper wire out of the Metrodome at night when no one was looking
In 1997, Pohlad almost sold the Twins to North Carolina businessman Don “the beav” Beaver, who would have moved the team to the wealthy area of Piedmont Triad (Greensboro - Winston-Salem - High Point) area of the state.[citation needed] the non competetiveness and cheeeeeapness in the twins organazationand a lack of interest in the twins killed the deal. (”beefy” Beaver is currently a minority owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates.)[citation needed]
Pohlad is also the Vice President Penny Pinchers Pohlad Companies, which owns several companies both small and thrifty, including Scrooge Financial Companies, United misers, River Penny’s Entertainment, Tightwad Group Holdings[2], Inetium, Economical Solutions, PBS AM Locally run Radio Station (through Northern Lights Broadcasting, a holding company[3]), and Tito’s Jewelers[4] in Hopkins, as well as a controlling interest in Savers, the second largest thrift store in the United States.
Pohlad grew up in Western Hebrewville, Iowa (now known as east Hebrewville, Iowa). In 1834, he graduated from Hebrewville High School. He attended and played Dodgeball for Compton Junior College in Southern California for a short time. Abe Lincoln saw him play Dodgeball and recruited him to play for Harlem University in New York. Pohlad attended H U but dropped out after the Dodgeball season of his senior year. He was drafted to serve in the Hatfields vs Mccoys war, and served from 1843-1846. Pohlad fought in Mississippi and spent time in West Virginia and Kentucky. He was wounded in battle, and was awarded the Purple Jug and a Bronze Jug Medal. After the war he returned to Hebrewville, married Eloise O’Rourke Pohlad and later moved to Minneapolis, MN. Over several decades, he built a Loan Sharking empire, finally selling Ebeneezer Bank to First Bank Systems (later formed into U.S. Bancorp) in 1992.[1] Forbes ranks him tied for the 107th Cheap person in the United States, with a net worth of 2.6 billion Penny’s.
craig other than that, what does mcdonald bring to the twins that will make them better?
i dont know much about mcdonald, i understand he is fast, no burner by any means, but are you prepared to roll with a lineup that includes everett, mcdonald, span, and possibly punto…it might be a fast defense, but you cant out run strikeouts…do you see the dilemma?
Craig:
I don’t get it. Pridie has a higher average, higher OBP, more HRs in AAA, and you want McDonald?
Leave Young in Left, Cuddyer in Right, and put Pridie in Center.
‘nuf said.
gobbledy,
Tyner was better than Kubel. They should just release Kubel and cut their losses. Your idea about bringing Tyner back would be fine with me. I think the guy averaged over a .300 batting average over the past three years with the Twins. It was a “full” .300+ average also. Unlike the “empty” or “meaningless” HR and RBI often hit by a certain 1st baseman.
colombo
yeah Church has played some CF. but he is better served to play in the corner outfield positions.
i am not sure about d young in center..
even though i think i would try him out there instead of cuddy.
but the twins must feel cuddy would make a better CF because there have been rumors about them trying him out there..
guerra/gomez/pelfrey/church
that still does not beat the sox offer
church is cheaper then coco. but a much worse CF
gomez is a young CF but he is not ready for an everyday role
pelfrey is equal to or less than lester
so guerra would have to be a can’t miss since the twins would be saying he is better then lowrie/masterson combined
RU,
McDonald has had a problem with the whiff. He improved greatly the 2nd half in AAA last year.
/////////////////////////////////////
Lee,
Pridie deserves a look. Trying him in LF in case McDonald doesn’t cut it would be fine with me. Or CF if Span struggles.
MH - Why do you say Church is such a bad CF? I haven’t seen a scouting report that delves into his fielding, just comments implying that he’s at least OK.
Jimmy Bee, you’ve set a new low by bringing antisemitism to this blog. It is absolutely disgusting.
It’s good to have OF depth. Brandon Roberts is another player who’s pretty close for the Twins. He has good speed as well.
Tolbert can also play 3 OF positions according to Terry Ryan. He also runs well.
McDonald, by the way, is very fast.
Ralf is just giving his opinions but there’s no way, NO WAY, he can be 99% sure about any of this. I can say things like “the names I’m hearing now are Gomez/Guerra/Pelfrey/Heilmann” or “it could go down as early as today” and sound like I have an insider’s perspective but the fact is that unless you’re Omar’s or Bill’s assistant (or Omar or Bill) you have no idea where things stand.
Mets fans overvalue their prospects, we undervalue them. It’s the nature of fans.
RU,
I’m actually on the fence about Martinez. I think he obviously has the tools to be a really good power hitter but I don’t think he’ll be great. I don’t think he’ll hit for average.
it takes f-mart, church, pelfry, guerra and mulvey for johan, craig and garrett jones (fills an of hole in the minors for the mets) imo. gets craig over to the metsblog.
Lee-
If you read long enough Craig will post many, MANY things that nobody gets or understands. It’s the nature of Craig.
how about this,
craig to the mets blog for ralf. that sounds like a fair trade. thoughts?
Let’s just take all of our fastest players from the minors/majors regardless of how they hit and start them for the Twins. Obviously this is the best way to go, right Craig?
In fact, why don’t we get some scouts at the Olympics this Summer and sign all of the sprinters to deals.
craig, i am not against span or even mcdonald as a 4th outfielder, but you ahve yet to convince anyone how they make the twins a better team when they are starting. What is it about their minor league numbers or the scouting you ahve done that tells you they are ready?
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ibp&did=milb&cid=534
Darnell may have improved the second half but then he regressed in winter league, K’ing 17 times in 71 at bats or 1 every 4 at bats.
c’mon craig, F this day up also…why you think its so cool to totally disrupt half way intelligent people who like to talk sports, with your half baked bs is really beyond me…when i get on here to read i shouldnt have to see your name every 3 seconds with the most annoying crap ive ever seen….
I personally thought that Tyner was awesome unlike some people out there. I was sad actually to see a 300 hitter leave for no reason at all. I wish it was Kubel instead honestly
Patrick:
Yes, I know that. But he sounded so serious…
Sorry… as soon as I saw craig and jimmybee were posting, I stopped reading.
You all have a good afternoon.
Even though Ralf may be shocked. I don’t believe Guerra, Gomez, Pelfrey, and Church…get it done. It’s not bad, and I’m not knocking the players.
I just don’t see this as being significantly better than the existing deals (which haven’t gotten a deal done either).
One of these teams needs to take it up a notch.
Craig is bored waiting for fast pitch softball to start, he loves the 1-0 games of defense and pitching , he has a picture of Jenny Finch on his wall, which isn’t all bad.
Dennis
I guess I have seen reports saying he is best served as a corner outfielder..
is he better then melky/coco in CF? no way.. otherwise there wouldn’t be reports saying that he is best served as a corner outfielder
church can play center. but he is a servicable cf..
i think he played some center for the nationals.. but thats with grass.. his lack of speed will be shown when he is playing on this turf
can church play center.. yes
is he a CF? No
he is servicable, not an everyday center field kinda guy.
just my opinion..
but its what i have been hearing/reading
Delmon in LF and Cuddy in RF would be okay also, though marginal.
Cuddy runs better than a lot of people think, as long as he can keep the weight down (a real struggle for Cuddy). Cuddy is expendable if they can make a trade and help the team.
Delmon really belongs in RF. He might be overwhelmed by LF in the dome. He might have the speed, but he has the reputation as being a poor fielder.
JimCrikket BLOG NAZI
jimcrikket,
im with you on this one..
Ralf, is Martinez a big guy, i have seen measureables, but i dont beleive press release measureable anymore than I believe a certain poster on here who’s name rhymes with traig.
Is this a concensus within the mets organization, cause it sounds like you might not be the only one who feels this way. If that is the case, are the mets more worried about losing gomez or martinez??
We signed casey daigle, jenny finch’s husband to a minor league deal…with marko jaric bringin in Adriana Lima, this season def. has its pluses. The teams might not be much to look at but…
it gets really annoying.. jimmybee isnt auful cause hes funny at some times… on the other hand with craig……
Darnell McDonald, Delmon Young and Denard Span in the outfield?
Wow.
That’s … interesting.
From CBS Sportsline on Ryan Church:
“Church came out of the gate like gangbusters in 2007 after new manager Manny Acta offered him an everyday role. He slumped a bit in the dog days, but reaffirmed his starting status by hitting .310 with seven home runs over the final two months. The trade to the Mets should help the 29-year-old, especially leaving a tough pitcher’s park. Church hit 10 of his 15 homers on the road last year. He always demonstrated a nice OPS bat in the minors, so we can’t help but like him as an outfield sleeper.”
ill go for that outfield if we are trying to rebuild and get a 1st overall draft pick..
if we want to have a firesale fine.. but make sure that we compete in 2010 and get the 1st overall draft this year.
But they left Daigle off the roster and he got drafted in the minor league draft. She could’ve been our Jessica Simpson
LIONDRAGON “THANK YOU” I really did like Tyner I even had a cool nickname for him. “pesky” him and Hunter were actually my fav’s. Kubel for some reason always has rubbed me the wrong way i dunno
MH - Thanks for clarifying. That fits in with what I’ve been reading too. “Serviceable” is worth picking up at this time, especially with his upside with the bat. Unlike a lot of people here, I don’t think we can judge Bill Smith’s plan until it’s much farther along. Are other trades in the works or planned for down the road? Remember, too, Craig Monroe can be cut in spring training and we’d be on the hook for about $700,000. Church could take his place. But in the short run we’d have someone to provide an offensive upgrade over what we have now in center.
RUjellis,
The K has been a nemisis for McDonald. You are right. I’m just saying he deserves a chance. He has some skills. Tolbert or Pridie could also play LF. Roberts is in the wings.
Span is said to be the most accomplished fielder among OF in the Twins system. He has tremendous speed. Anything he would hit would be a plus, if he can field the position to a high level.
craig,
hes not very fast compared to our farm… revere and casilla and benson are MUCH faster
I think Delmon will improve as a fielder. He has the tools. Playing in RF would take some pressure off him. That’s a much smaller player area than LF in the dome. Sounds like Cuddy doesn’t want to move from RF though.
Church can hit, no doubt about that
has some power, and hit 43 doubles last year..
question is, if the twins aquire church/gomez
who plays CF?
My guess would be gomez, and my other guess is Monroe would be cut
outfield of kubel/church/gomez/cuddy/young
lefty lefty, righty righty righty
gives the club some options..
or do we acquire church/gomez and send gomez to AAA for the start of the season?
church plays CF and we keep monroe?
Cassila is pretty quick but defense hmmmmm…. and his avg is lower. should of kept Castillo. Cassila couldn’t hold his jock
wow.. the blog stopped writing.. i think i can cheer you guys up with this news..
from mlbblogtraderumors
there is a trade that could happen with the twins and mets that isnt the santana trade. thats right its a blog trade.. this trade is just about to go down.. the twins will be trading craig and will be receiving ralf in return. i dont know who would be getting the better deal but i think the twins win by the edge on this one…… thoughts?
ya i wanna know what you guys think….
Lion,
Span is thought to be the fastest man in the Twins system. Revere may have changed that. Both are much faster than Casilla or Benson.
oh yeah..
keep this inmind
i think the twins are HIGH on gomez cuz the kid is flat out quick.
some say he is faster then reyes..
now, if he learns the game and can learn to hit the ball and use his speed.. we have a dominant force at the top of our order.
and maybe we are not as high on martinez because we have D-young..
can D-young’s nickname be
D-Nice! ??
casilla is by far the fastest guy in the system.. gomez is just about as fast.. i think casilla is fast then reyes acually….
“the blog stopped writing”
Someone is posting every minute.
Having multiple conversations and topics is interesting.
craig,
by stopped i mean nbo one is talking except you…
craig,
can you go back to being the loving craig? i like that one better (if there is a better) it was much more enjoyable
Casilla is quick and a good base-stealer, but couldn’t beat Span in a foot race. From what I have read anyway.
1. Nick Blackburn, rhp
2. Joe Benson, of
3. Wilson Ramos, c
4. Tyler Robertson, lhp
5. Anthony Swarzak, rhp
6. Ben Revere, of
7. Jason Pridie, of
8. Brian Duensing, lhp
9. Jeff Manship, rhp
10. Trevor Plouffe, ss
Top Twins prospects from BA
Orioles president Andy MacPhail has indicated that Greg Aquino is an in-house option at closer if the team can’t sign a veteran replacement for Chris Ray.
Aquino has a career ERA of 4.88 in the NL and he’s battled elbow problems each of the three years. If he enters camp as the favorite for saves in Baltimore, it will say an awful lot about the team’s chances this year.
Source: Baltimore Sun
HERE YOU GO LION
baltimore wants a closer
maybe your robets/bedard for nathan trade will work out afterall
Oh, and for the record.. i do not think nathan gets traded to baltimore..
i see NO chance of that happening..
span cant beat anyone in a race on the basepads cause he would never make it to first…
Best Hitter for Average - Ben Revere
Best Power Hitter - Danny Rams
Best Strike-Zone Discipline - Brian Dinkelman
Fastest Baserunner - Ben Revere
Best Athlete - Joe Benson
Best Fastball - Nick Blackburn
Best Curveball - Mike McCardell
Best Slider - Tyler Robertson
Best Changeup - Brian Duensing
Best Control - Nick Blackburn
Best Defensive Catcher - Wilson Ramos
Best Defensive Infielder - Deibinson Romero
Best Infield Arm - Deibinson Romero
Best Defensive Outfielder - Jason Pridie
Best Outfield Arm - Angel Morales
Also from BA
Here is the the full story at BA
What do you think Christmas is like at the Pohlad’s? “He didn’t get us anything last year and our gas tank was syphoned before we left for the evening”
Bedard for Nathan any day of the week hour minute second. Now now now nooooooooowwww
Yes, I’m sure the Orioles would make that bad of a trade. Bedard for Nathan, get real. Let’s offer Punto for Markakis while we’re at it.
Kazmir for Nathan heads up anyone?
Haren or Harden for Nathan heads up.
jimmy bee,
If your 1:42PM post reveals your actual character, Pohlad is a better man than you will ever be.
they also think that harris will be at 3rd in 2011 and casilla will be at 2nd and that santana and liriano will be our 1-2 and nathan as closer..
Slowey has a really good head on his shoulders, you guys should read the story from the Twins website about him. Find it here
Socrates who?
Robert,
Baseball America is so often in error. Many of those categories are very subjective. BA seems to have a lot of bias toward a certain baseball philosophy. It’s reflected in their reporting. I don’t give them much credibility.
How about if we trade with the Mets and Church is included we also go after one of the following FA outfielders:
CF Nook Logan or LF Kevin Mench?
I would platoon Logan and Church AND use Logan as a defensive replacement (he’s a good fielding centerfielder):
Against righthanders:Church
2007: .287/.360/.506 and .866 OPS
2005-2007:.282/.359/.497 and .856 OPS
Against lefthanders:Logan ( leadoff hitter)
2007: .305/.352/.427 and .779 OPS
2005-2007: .300/.347/.446 and .793 OPS
OR
Platoon Kubel/Mench and Church/Monroe
Against righthanders:Kubel (DH)
2007: .280/.336/.474 and .810 OPS
2005-2007:.267/.317/.442 and .759 OPS
Against lefthanders:Mench (strictly DH)
2007: .314/.343/.558 and .901 OPS
2005-2007:.305/.361/.558 and .919 OPS
and CF:
Against lefthanders:Church
2007: .287/.360/.506 and .866 OPS
2005-2007:.282/.359/.497 and .856 OPS
Against righthanders:Monroe
2007: .271/.309/.496 and .805 OPS
2005-2007:.281/.332/.481 and .813 OPS
Any thoughts?
Craig who would you choose to fill a spot in the starting rotation if only 1 spot was available and why
1/Gurrier
2/Slowey
3/Baker
Also what do you think our starting rotation will look like if Santana is traded to the Mets
I refuse to cheer for anyone named “Nook”. Sounds like a character from “Goonies”
1. revere
2. span
3. benson
4. casilla
5. pridie
those are my 5 pitchers.. i like them all cause there really really fast
Yes Craig, you have much more wisdom. Punto was our top prospect in 2005 and Span has been our top prospect since then.
na just kidding around again.. i just hate seeing craig make posts like that…
Span for Pujols, straight up because Denard can beat Albert in a feetrace any day of the week.
Craig,
why do Nathans cheeks quiver like he is going to take flight or something?
Do we have the skinniest closer in all of baseball? Aren’t most closers big fat and strange
Jimmy, please refrain from the anti-semetic posts in the future.
When did Jimmy say anything anti-semetic?
Nathan looks positively huge compared to Mike MacDougal. Currently, Nathan is 6′4 220. MacDougal is 6′3 180. I bet when he was closing for KC he was closer to 170.
i never did cause i am not dumb enough to
wrathchild but the cheek thing will take me time to adjust to
there are a number of closers smaller then nathan.
so no.. not even close
have a great afternoon everyone and i hope i inspired some laughter
Jimmy - In your fake bio of Pohlad you said he grew up in Western Hebrewville, OH., and graduated from Hebrewville High School. You surely know that is anti-semitic, especially in a post specifically attacking Pohlad for being cheap, a conniving businessman, etc. That sort of thing is certainly not acceptable in any way.
Todd, read his post at 1:42
The guy doing the impersonation thing, knows what he is doing. I’ve spoken to an attorney about this and this is possibly a criminal act. It’s sabotage and attempting to interfere with a persons 1st amendment rights. People can not just do whatever they want on a blog under the cover of anonymity. You can be traced. There is at least civil liability. The StarTribune also has potential liability. The impersonator can be traced and will be. It’s in the works.
I appologize if i may have offended anyone by saying Hebrewville. If I offended anyone surely it was un intended. Again sorry
Craig,
If you don’t put any credibility in Baseball America what do you use?
Baseball boys and girls! Lets focus on that and not the other crap people tend to write, which actually took place about 2 hours ago. Lets keep focus my ADD friends.
Come on Jimmy; I think your rants are hilarious, but let’s leave a person’s gender, religious preference, or sexual orientation out of this discussion. With your references to “Hebrewville,” you’re merely perpetuating nasty stereotypes. Come on now, I’ve stuck up for you; don’t go the way of the Craig.
was the post at 1:42 suppose to be funny?
cuz i read about 3 lines and i found it to be a huge waste of time
Victor,
I read scouting reports from as many sources as I can find. I listen to what Terry Ryan and Tom Kelly say about players and also the men who run the minor league systems.
Jimmy - Thanks for the apology. I’m choosing to believe you didn’t really understand the full import of what you were writing.
pohlad isnt jewish, just your every day cheap gentile, the only jewish owner in mn is wilf and shows a definitely willing to spend and upgrade facilties and free agents. so there.
Mets fans are psyched about giving up Ryan Church because Lastings Milledge was traded to get him. They have no idea how good Church can be. They are so blinded by their need for Santana and their hatred for the Milledge deal that they are more than willing to roll the dice on a void in right field (Carlos Gomez, Endy Chavez, Angel Pagan). Not saying right field will be a complete bust, but it will certainly be a question mark. Even more so if Alou is down for a significant period of time.
Church is under-rated and if he can be had, you gotta do it.
jimmybee,
To answer your question, I like both Slowey and Baker. I think both of those pitchers have talent. I have liked them both for quite awhile. I think they will struggle at times next season, but they will eventually figure it out.
I like Guerrier where he is. He’s very valuable in that relief role.
any one here have insider, buster got another east coast bias santana article, i want to see what garbage hes spewing
roundabout that ones for you, cut n paste buddy
Get Church in the deal, I like it.
Why does every conversation about baseball have to turn into personal attacks?
I admit I was attacking people Monday on the race issue. I apologized.
Let’s just talk about the game instead of the the person making the post. Who cares about anonymous bloggers anyway?
Craig-
I agree it’s not very funny when people impersonate you. One person posting as Craig is more than enough. They shouldn’t do it. However, this…
“The guy doing the impersonation thing, knows what he is doing. I’ve spoken to an attorney about this and this is possibly a criminal act. It’s sabotage and attempting to interfere with a persons 1st amendment rights. People can not just do whatever they want on a blog under the cover of anonymity. You can be traced. There is at least civil liability. The StarTribune also has potential liability. The impersonator can be traced and will be. It’s in the works.”
…is hilarious. You’re going to trace someone’s IP address, have them arrested, and then sue them? Don’t you think that’s a little drastic? Your legal fees will far outweigh any possible (and I use that word lightly since this is much closer to IMpossible) settlement. Sorry to break it to you, but typing your name into a box that says “name” and writing a harmless message is not illegal. “It’s in the works”… HAHAHA
dan, I have insider, give me a minute
Buster Olney:
At the winter meetings, the Red Sox talked extensively about Johan Santana. They debated and evaluated and argued and made offers. He was a front-burner item for them, and there seemed to be great desire, for Boston, to get a deal done.
But since the holidays, Boston’s enthusiasm for the conversation has seemingly waned, perhaps as the Red Sox considered the looming implications of giving Santana something close to the contract extension he wants — six years and $150 million. The sobering consideration of the money and the risk and the prospects involved are cast against the reality that the Red Sox don’t have to make the trade. It’s as if the Red Sox are holiday shoppers who just got their first post-Christmas credit card bill and are thinking: Maybe we ought to cut back…
You won’t see the Red Sox announcing they are pulling out of the trade talks the way that Yankees head honcho Hank Steinbrenner did. It doesn’t do the Red Sox any good to signal that they have departed the field, even if they have determined, internally, they are not going to make a Santana trade built around Jon Lester. It would not surprise me if Boston GM Theo Epstein has communicated to Minnesota GM Billy Smith: Look, old friend, you and I are probably never going to finish a Santana trade, but officially, that package deal built around Jacoby Ellsbury remains on the table. This allows Smith to convey to the Mets or the Yankees that Boston remains in play.
There is no indication that Smith’s asking price has come down. He’s talked and talked and talked and found no deal to his liking yet. But as each day passes, the pressure on him to make a decision grows, to choose between a Mets offer that is based on enthusiasm but much less than he wants, or between Boston and Yankee overtures that may or may not have much teeth to them.
Maybe Smith will just keep Santana. Maybe he will settle. Maybe he’ll call the Red Sox and tell them, hey, forget about Lester, we’ll make a deal around Ellsbury and Justin Masterson. And maybe that will be the right price for the Red Sox, despite the salary concerns about Santana.
The Mets want to make a Santana trade, for sure. But the question being asked around baseball is this: How in the world can the Twins swap Santana, the best pitcher on the planet, without getting a developed pitching prospect they really like? Phil Humber and Mike Pelfrey don’t fit that description, and other Mets prospects are two or three years away.
Here’s one idea for the Twins to consider: Right now it is evident they don’t like what the Mets have to offer. But circumstances likely will change once games are played again. Suspects will turn into coveted prospects in April and May and June; it happens every spring. During the winter of 2004-05, the Diamondbacks had no interest in a young Yankees infielder named Robinson Cano as they talked about a Randy Johnson trade. A lot of other teams felt the same way about Cano, and the Yankees were willing to offer him. But six months later, Cano was hitting almost .300 in the big leagues, and Joe Torre was comparing his swing to that of Rod Carew and suggesting that he’d win a batting title in the future. Cano became an untouchable in less than half a season.
So maybe the Twins would consider casting a wide player-to-be-named net over the Mets’ system. They could take some prospects up front, like Carlos Gomez, and then ask the Mets to provide a list of 20-25 pitchers from the minors they could pick from on July 31 (or whatever date). Maybe Humber or Pelfrey or some other pitchers will emerge between now and then.
It will be interesting, too, as this drags out, to see whether there will be any renewed interest from the Yankees. But their concerns about the 2008 budget are real; Hal Steinbrenner, Hank’s younger brother and the money man, has made it clear he doesn’t really want to take the team’s base payroll from $200 million to $220 million with a Santana trade (which is about where it would be if Santana insisted upon a restructuring of his 2008 contract). You get the sense that, internally, the Yankees are feeling like an organization that has eaten two cinnamon rolls and has had enough for now, thank you.
Maybe that’ll change if the Andy Pettitte/Roger Clemens saga manifests itself in spring training. Or maybe not. Either way, the market for the best pitcher in the game continues to be lukewarm.
Relief pitcher Matt Guerrier and the Minnesota Twins agreed Thursday to a $950,000, one-year contract that avoided a salary arbitration hearing.
The right-hander became a reliable long reliever for the Twins last season, going 2-4 with a 2.35 ERA and one save in 73 appearances. He has gradually improved since breaking in with the club in 2004.
Right-handers hit just .187 against Guerrier last season, when he made $407,500. He often served as the bridge between Minnesota’s up-and-down starters and dominant late-inning relief.
Guerrier was brilliant in May, June and July, allowing only eight earned runs in 45 1-3 innings over 37 appearances.
The agreement means right fielder Michael Cuddyer is the lone remaining Twins player in arbitration. Hearings are held throughout February, but teams typically reach agreements with players before that point.
Cuddyer asked for $6.2 million next season, and the Twins offered $4.7 million. Guerrier asked for $1.15 million, and the Twins offered $750,000.
I am so sick of you pretenders i will sue every single one of you. I will get a court order and i will get the star tribune to give up your emails and i will sue you you all stop impersonating or you will be sorry.
Eat my a__ and your bull s___ Craig you have not lawsuit try to track me down you loser
The more I read about Church the more I like him. He is a better hitter than Coco and Melky for sure. Church reminds me of Mike Lamb, someone who is a good hitter and hopefully will thrive if given the chance to play everyday. I think a .280 20 Hr year would not be out of the question with church. I just wonder where we would put him in the outfield. Maybe LF Church, CF Young, RF Cuddyer.
Although the Mets would not have a bad offer with: guerra/gomez/pelfrey/church,
I still agree with those of you who said that that is not better than the Red Sox offer. Heilman or Martinez or something would have to be added. I still like the Yankees and Red Sox offers better.
Also if we get Gomez, I almost can asure you he will start in AA or AAA for next year(at least he should).
I also hope that it is just rumors that Cuddyer would play in CF. Has he not established himself in RF? The man is ranked as the best arm in the AL, if not MLB, and plays the ball of the baggy nearly perfectly. Besides the fact that he has proven himself in RF. Frankly Cuddy does not have the speed, and quick decisiveness (i think i murdered that spelling), to be a CF.
CF for Cuddy would bring him a lot of unneeded pressure and you would see his offense and defense decrease. Why not have the younger, unestablished, faster, Delmon Yoing try it out? Am i the only one who thinks that?
robert, you are the man , thank you, iddint feel like shelling out the money for it.
Kyle Lohse is among several free agent starters who are still jobless.
Patrick,
Not true. If the intent is criminal, and a complaint is made it would have to be investigated. A pattern can show criminal intent.
Civil liability could be a matter of small claims court. Now, damage would have to be proved. If the person was convicted criminally, there is a victim and the following civil damages could probably be proved. This would cost me little to pursue and could be quite satisfying. It’s not frivolous. I have the time, money and connections to do it.
Is craig possessed. Why do Nathans cheeks quiver like that huh Craig
Yeah the only reason I bought insider was for my fantasy teams. I like it though, they actually do have some good stuff once in a while.
pretty sure all they would have to say is my name is Craig too, and there are no established names in this blog.
Sorry Craig good laugh though
so there ha
Agreed Robert is the man … I hope Buster doesnt track his IP adress.
Craig back to the subject cheeks quiver
I heard Gardy on KFAN about an hour ago discussing the prospect of Cuddyer patrolling CF as well as the “battle” for 2B with Harris and Castillo. What a rube. Talk about clueless…god almighty.
Does he know what’s doing? Does he have any idea? I’d ALMOST second Craig’s notion of assigning CF duties to Span over Cuddyer.
haha, I’m sure you do Craig. We all have time, money, and connections. I’m dating Jessica Alba.
“If the intent is criminal” The intent is not criminal. Some of your posts are criminal.
Hey, I agree with you that people shouldn’t do it. It’s uncalled for. If they want to criticize your opinions, they should do it under their name.
what do you guys think about this dont know if you saw it
Luis Alfredo (Caracas, Venezuela): Keith, what do you now about Santana going to the Mets ? In the news here they are saying he is almost a Met.
Keith Law: (2:02 PM ET ) I think there’s a solid chance, because I’ve thought all along the Red Sox were dilettantes - they either wanted to make the Yanks overpay or to see him in the NL, but they didn’t want to give up all that young, cheap talent for him.
Patrick,
Hey thanks by the way for trying to encourage the whole thing, after prefacing your remark with the statement that you are against the impersonating. That’s very clever, but very transparent.
Many of your posts are rants about me. I’ve never said anything about you personally. What is your problem?
cheeks uh quiver uh Craig. Craig you should sue then write why Nathans cheeks quiver
I mean be a man don’t hide
craig
wow, i never thought i would see the day that people discuss bringing an attorney in because someone impersonates someone else..
i find it very funny..
and i would love to see an attorney attempt to do something about people impersonating you. I bet he would laugh in your face. It would be a complete waste of his/her time
frank caliendo
Proffering the notion that the admittedly inept Twins front office should trade Morneau for pitching is a problem!
People need to stop being mean to me you will all pay i will sue eah and every one of you im serious here im not kidding i will sue you all so stop being mean there are crimes being commited in here and it is making me mad.
yeah sorry guys but impersonating and being racial i wouldn’t appreciate
Todd Anthony
At Least someone agrees with me. Cuddyer is in CF would make no sense. He is ESTABLISHED IN RF AS ONE OF THE BEST!!!! Delmon Young is not. This is an easy one.
I think maybe Martinez,Guerra,Church,Pelfry would get it done, add Heilman or Gomez and it would be a no question done deal.
is craig haven’t multiple personallity disorder. back to quiver cheeks craig
Tyler,
I agree with your assessment regarding shifting Young to CF. He did play 29 games there last year.
Sounds like Gardy is willing to try Cuddyer in CF. Why? Because he’s a veteran…I don’t know what is he thinking?
Craig-
Please go through this blog (and Joe C’s and Howard’s) and find one post of mine in which I “rant about you”. It’s never happened. You’re starting to sound paranoid. The only time I’ve come close to ranting against you is when you were calling all of us ignorant racists. You apologized, I’m over it.
Believe what you want, I’m not encouraging anything. I’m saying if anyone wants to rag on you, they should at least have the balls to use their own name. Seriously, paranoid.
The bickering (Craig and friends) gets in the way of all the mindless chatter and endless speculation.
Does Cuddyer, to paraphrase Gardy, play the game the “right way?”
keep cudy in right pick up a cf and put cue ball in left. the twins need to address there problems regarding cf. They wouldn’t be dumb enough to let the best cf in mlb go without having an even better cf to replace him would they.
Craig,
C’mon man, we are here to talk about baseball, not this kind of thing.
You are bringing more attention to yourself by posting stuff like this.
He has Turrets syndrome and thats why we need to trade him now because is shows more when he gets nervious.
“hey wouldn’t be dumb enough to let the best cf in mlb go without having an even better cf to replace him would they.”
Oh wouldn’t they?!?!?!?!
If the Mets gave us Martinez instead of Gomez and made the package
Marinez,Church,Guerra,Pelfry, do you think that would be enough?
I am starting to think that it would
This is the same crew that signed Tony Batista, Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson, et al. mistakenly believing that they could recapture the lost dominance of yesteryear; sorry, I don’t buy that idea that the Twins front office “isn’t dumb enough.” I don’t put anything past them.
Pelfry is supposed to be the better of he and Mulva (er, I mean, Mulvey), right?
Nathan does i mean have turrets and there you go Patrick on another rant
Robert - Thanks for posting the Olney article. Very interesting. He’s implying Lester might be off the table. I think he accurately represents the true feeling in Boston and New York about not wanting to raise the payrolls to even higher levels while giving up a lot of young talent. A lot of posters here have assumed that’s all talk, but I’ve never thought it was.
I like Olney’s idea of players to be picked later. You can’t wait to trade Santana for the same reason, however - a “prospect” today (Gomez, FMart) can become untouchable after a fast start. Just like Cano did. If the Twins scouts, whom I trust, decide these guys are going to be good, I say go for it now while you can.
Tyler - I think that would be enough. I posted exactly that earlier today.
Church gives us a starter right now, Pelfrey has the potential to start this year, and could be a dynamite relief guy, even a closer. FMart and Guerra have two of the highest ceilings of any minor leaguers. I’d be very happy with that deal.
we could get huston streets for 3 mill
Todd Anthony
Yea I think Pelfy is the best out of Mulvey and Humber. I am not sure though. They say Pelfy can be a #3, but I am not sure about that. It is cleat that guerra has the highest ceiling out of all of them and COULD be a future ACE in 4 or 5 years
Yes, Pelfrey projects to be better. Has the bigger frame, better pitches.
the cuddy in cf stuff has to be BS. you don’t stick a player in cf that has never played there ever. gardy would have a nervous breakdown the first miss played ball that turned into a triple or in the case of ford a hr.
Craig-
Haha whatever, man. I see you ignored my request to find one time I ranted against you. I’m going back to baseball.
I don’t necessarily want Cuddy in CF, but I don’t want Young there either. He has said he doesn’t want to play CF and personally, if a guy doesn’t want to be there, I don’t want him there. It could effect his productivity. If we get Gomez in a Mets deal, rational thinking dictates that he spends a year in AAA. I’m not sure how we could do that with our gaping holes at the top of our lineup and in CF. If we get Gomez, I think he has to play. Who knows, maybe it’s not that he wasn’t ready last year, maybe it’s that he couldn’t handle the Big Apple. You get him into the friendly confines of the Dome and he could flourish.
GObble dude
It is not BS, Gardy is for sure at least considering it, he is quoted as saying that, and he has said that on the radio. I can not say it enough what a stupid, horrible idea. What else do we want from Cuddyer in RF?
Can we squeeze Heilman in to the deal?
Dennis, I agree with both of your posts. Olney sometimes talks out of his a** but I think he has it right about the Yanks and Sox. If he’s wrong and they’re both still interested, why would we be talking to the Mets so much when their offer is clearly the worst on the table. I also like his idea of a player to be named later. It gives us a lot more leeway. In the end I think we’d take Pelfrey anyway so if he’s on the table I say just do it.
Patrick
Do you think Cuddy wants to be in CF? Also, if a veteran says he doesn’t want to be in CF, and a 2nd year guy says he doesn’t want to be in CF, who do you listen to? I say you listen to the veteran and put Delmon in CF, in my opinion.
i think gardy is trying to make a point of how bad we need a real cf’r by saying he’ll try cuddy there. he can’t be serious, does he have a sense of humor?
Patrick
There offer is not the worst on the table if it is Martinez,Church,Guerra,pelfrey, the Mests have put a pretty good offer on the table, but I agree with Columbo, I really want Heilman, probably more than Gomez. Heilman could also be a SP, and a pretty good one. Lots of reports from NY say that he does not like the Mets FO since they are not letting him be a SP.
when a girl posts to fast does it say slow down cowgirl or is this a sexist blog?
mauer in cf because of his cat like foot speed. jk i think they would actually try kubel but i am thouroughly against this
Martinez,Guerra,Pelfry,Church for Johan
OR
f-mart,Guerra,Pelfy,Church,Heilman for Santana,Pirdie, and pitching prospect.
heilman was drafted by the twins but they wouldn’t pay the bonus (surprise), now that the mets have paid the bonus they may want him.
TA
Mulva, eh? Too funny. I was wondering if anyone was going to get around to that particular reference.
One thing about Church is the knock on him as always been he’s strictly a platoon player. Still, he was a rising star not that long ago.
The person now posting as “Craig” is an impostor. My last post was at 3:44 pm.
I don’t make fun of people with Tourette Syndrome or any other disease.
This is my last post of the day as “Craig” I’ll be back in a few minutes under another name to talk about baseball. Talk to you soon!
How about this SP rotation
1Liriano
2Heilman
3Baker
4Boof
5Slowly or Pelfry
Not bad, and you would have Tyler Robetson and Guerra ready to be called up in a few years.
How about Heilman as a closer? He’s already got a lot of experience and success in relief pitching. And from what I’ve read of him I wouldn’t be surprised if he also has the mentality. I love Nathan, and think he could be the best closer in MLB, but if Heilman (or anyone) could do the job, we could really improve the team even more with a Nathan trade.
Imagine three years from now. FMart is a coming star, Delmon is a superstar, Liriano, Pelfrey, Baker, Robertson etc. are leading a seasoned rotation. Guerra is the new phenom on the block, sort of what Liriano was two years ago. Andy Laroche is starring at 3B. Casilla has matured at short, and Mauer and Morneau are still going strong, but with more consistency. Not a bad setup.
Dennis
How do you suspect we would get Andy Laroche?
denis, problem is they’d all be playing for other teams because the twins wouldn’t want to pay them.
Boneyard,
I agree with your thinking about Church being a platoon player. If you look at his stats, his numbers are good against righthanders, not as great against lefthanders. Fortuntely, most pitchers are righthanders.
The Twins would need to come up with another player to platoon with him. I would prefer someone who bats right and is a decent fielding centerfielder.
Any suggestions?
Tyler-
I say you don’t put either of them in CF when neither of them of are really suited for it. Young didn’t play that well during the few times they put him in CF last year.
And IMO I do think the Mets package is the worst on the table. I think any package they can come up with (that doesn’t include Reyes) won’t be better than the Yanks or Sox. Any Yankees deal involving Hughes is better and both Sox packages include more MLB ready talent. One has a potential top line starter and the other has a CF that would fit our needs perfectly.
Also, Dennis, do you think the Pohlads will pay for a team like that? I don’t think they would. Great line up (I’m still not sold on LaRoche nor do I know how the Twins would acquire him), but too rich for the Pohlads.
Columbo, in a limited AB situation like the right-handed half of a platoon, I would be happy to go with whatever kid does well in spring training. I don’t necessarily think we have to go looking for someone in that situation. What does everybody else think?
monroe has played cf and could when they face a real tuff lh pitcher. not the besst fielder but better then cuddy.
Patrick
I could go with that, but it is important to realize that Demon is young and can easily adjust. Also the Yankees might not have hughes on the table, although if they do it could probably trump the Mets.
Dennis,
I agree with your analysis of Heilman. I would be thinking of using him as a closer to replace Nathan…though I know he wants to be a starter.
Also, don’t forget about Perkins. I think he could develop into a very good starter…just my opinion.
Yea there is actually NO WAY the Twins can get Larouche. IMO
Columbo
Dont you think that a older reliable good pitcher would have better use as a SP, as oppused as a closer? The closer position is overrated and I am confident that Guerrer could excell in that role with Nesehek setting him up. Our SP rotation NEEDS a good reliable veteran, and Heilman has the motivation to want to excell in that position.
Gobbledy, you’re right about Monroe being a better option than Cuddy in CF. Not a bad platoon option there, given the circumstances.
Gobbledygookguy,
Monroe would be a candidate to platoon.
But, Kubel has the same problem.He can hit righthanders,but not so good against lefthanders.
So, as boneyard mentioned who could fill the roll within or who could we get by trade or FA to platoon?
Tyler - My scenario required us to trade Nathan (and perhaps something else) for Laroche. I didn’t mean to specifically say it would have to be him. Rather that Nathan would allow us to get a pretty good third baseman somewhere.
I’d rather have Heilman as a closer if I’m right about his mental makeup. And I’ve always posted that closers are grossly overrated. But he’s proven he can be a good reliever. I don’t object to him being a starter again, but I have a feeling he could be one of those guys who started life as a starter and then became a good closer.
No way the dodgers would do that. But good hopeful thinking.
And to answer a couple of people - yes, I definitely think the Pohlads would pay for that team. I’ve been touting their adherence to their business model of 52-55% or more of revenues for player salaries. They’ve always said as the new ballpark raises revenues that will allow them to raise salaries. I don’t like Carl the man (money, money, money is not my idea of a philosophy of life), but he does adhere to business models.
I’ve also been saying that I think Bill Smith has a long range master plan. And his plan requires the trading of Santana. He then takes the $22M saved per year and applies it to extending Morneau, Cuddyer, etc. So my scenario (whether it includes Laroche or another third baseman from the Nathan trade) is extremely realistic.
Tyler,
We could try Heilman as a starter. I like Nathan. I was thinking of using him as a closer because I think he could be effective in that roll and then we could trade Nathan.
Tyler - Uh oh…don’t be putting me in the Liondragon category now!!!
Ryan Church is a solid player. Not spectacular. It’s like Caberera at 29 and not 22/23. Church has more power, less speed, not quite the range, nowhere near the arm.
I don’t hate Ryan Church by any means, but throwing him into the mix makes the Mets offer less than the Yankees, or the Red Sox.
Columbo
I definetly see your point, but i think we need to have a reliable, veteran at the front of the lineup. If we had players like silva, or santana i would agree with you and say have heilman as our closer, but i think he would be underutilized there with people like Matt guerer who can step up
BC
I disagree church is better than Melky, I think he is a much better all around hitter and his defense is barely worse than Melky
Dallas McPherson. Sign him.
Hey.
What’s the deal with all you people? The twins will be fine this year. Sign Santana. Jason Pridie in center.
By the way,
Any ideas on why D. Young can’t play center? He looks speedy.
Dennis, how’s it going today?
Andrew
I want them to sign Santana, but it looks like that is not going to happen.
Also i agree put Young in center
I believe a deal with the Mets will be done BECAUSE it gets Santana out of the AL. Besides, it’s a good deal for Santana. Without the DH he’ll be even more dominate, and he’ll get to hit.
BC - I’m trying to get four things done at work today, but the Twins blog keeps sucking me in. “Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in.”
It’s sounding like this Mets thing might be serious. It’s not looking like you’re going to get your Red Sox deal.
I agree with BC on the Melky vs. Church. They’re similar players but Melky is 23 years old. If he has a similar skill set to a player 6 years his senior then you always take the younger guy. Melky is a better player than Church.
Young is not speedy.
But he has an excellent arm and is on the way to being a great hitter.
Church is likely better right now, and as such has value (and still has definite upside), but unlike a lot of posters here I think Melky has considerable upside. I agree with Joe Sheehan’s assessment that Melky could well develop into Alex Rios.
Young was the right fielder on his HIGH SCHOOL TEAM. (Camarillo HS, CA)
If he can’t play centerfield on his high school team, I would rule out playing CF in the American League Central
Dennis,
I love the quote from Godfather III
I wounder if that Ralf guy hears voices in his head when he says the names he is hearing are such and such. I know Craig hears voices in his head. Maybe they should get together.
Melky doesn’t have much upside that I can see.
Boneyard,
I respect your opinion, but what is that based on?
He is 22 with a stong arm, good speed, and is a pretty good hitter.
Power will come with maturity.
His only drawback is the opinions of the Twin bloggers who think no one is good enough to be traded for St. Johan.
Boneyard - I don’t want to be contentious, but on what do you base that assessment? People keep saying that, but they never give any specific reasons. The closest thing to a reason I’ve heard from anyone is when they point to the stats from his first two years. But those stats actually say the opposite because they were compiled when he was 21 and 22 years old. Those stats are remarkable under those circumstances. But if you’ve read scouting opinions that say he doesn’t have upside I’d like to hear about them. I’d like as complete a picture as possible. But I so far haven’t seen anything like that.
Sane - You did it again!!!
BC Beneke strictly baseball -
talking about the movies. Knew THAT couldn’t last…………………
Dennis,
We need a blogging schedule so we know which of us is on duty.
Boneyard,
How many MLB players reached their peak at 22?
Whatever you think Melky lacked the last two years, he certainly has plenty of time to correct that (imaginary) problem.
ive been reading these posts of craig and its rather funny (i was gone for a while.. ) someone impersonated me awhile ago but you know.. this is a blog with no name identity.. someone can come in here and say there any one of our names cause you no.. maybe there screenname is craig too you know? but when theres no security on this blog with names anyone can do what they want. its not identity theft.. if you dont wanna deal with it dont write on this blog.. i think suing is a little much.. and i dont think it would get far in the courts..
Boneyard.
The upside to Cabrera over church is that Church is going to be eligable for arbitration and or FA much sooner, and at 29 is getting close to his ceiling if he hasn’t reached it yet. HE cannot handle lefthanded pitchers very well, and he’s not a leadoff style hitter if we had a leadoff hitter Church would make a great 6-7th place hitter. Kind of like Cabrera. And if Cabrera made it to the majors with the YANKEES at age 21 then I think maybe just maybe he has something?
I don’t like him more than Martinez, and I don’t like him more than Ellsbury at all, but I put him on par with Coco crisp.
I believe that the team needs to do something really quick. Tomorrow would be perfect as it’s Twinsfest, but Pohlad and his kids won’t risk the topsy turvey questioning of the mass public… they have no testicular fortitude so they would not do this deal until Monday at the earliest now.
But Melky at 23 is guarenteed to be a Twin for 5 more years, Church would be good for two max.
Melky has a career OPS of .728 in a fantastic hitters’ lineup, where that stat should be inflated due to great pitches to hit and being pitched around frequently.
Ryan Church has a career OPS of .810, in fantastically crappy lineups and a virtually equal number of career ABs.
I’d take Church. However, since they don’t play the same position, its comparing apples to oranges.
I personally don’t care for Melky. If he had legitimate upside, he’d have a more impressive OPS in that hitter’s lineup. But that’s my take. His 99/129 career BB/K ratio is pretty good for a 22 year-old though, I’ll give him that.
Although 99 walks out of 1,000+ career bats isn’t what you want from the leadoff man either. He doesn’t strike either though, which is why the OPS of only .728 is alarming to me.
wrath,
To which 22-year-old are you comparing Melky’s unimpressive OPS?
If there are 22-year-olds with better numbers available in a Santana trade, by all means, we need to make that trade instead.
Wrathchild - I hope your name doesn’t reflect your personality!
Another thing in Church’s favor is that he has played in a pitcher’s park. Going to the Metrodome would help him some. And his lifetime stats and career path have been negatively impacted by a couple of injuries, and below par play after returning from those injuries.
I don’t think your comments about Melky’s OPS are persuasive. Again, doing that at age 21 and 22 is impressive. VERY few stars have come up and done that well at such a very young age. Yes, guys like A-Rod have done better at that age. But I’m not even close to comparing the two. I’m just saying that his age has to be taken into account FAR more than people are doing. And the SO/BB ratio is superb for a 21-22 year old. Sheehan suggests that as he learns to drive the ball in the air rather than into the ground (the same career path as Alex Rios) he has every chance to become a power guy down the road. I still don’t see a reason to doubt that.
Sane - I notice you say the same things as I do, you just use a lot fewer words! Which is why you always beat me to the punch.
If BS nixed the Hughes/Melky/prospect trade offer because he underrated Melky like everyone else here, that would be tragic.
I’m analyzing Melky, not proposing an alternate trade. I’m surprised you weren’t able to figure that out on your own.
If I were to propose alternatives, I would say I would rather receive Church (someone with a more impressive OPS) and prospects who at least have an upside, and have not already demonstrated an inability to post a decent OPS in 1000 ABs in the most hitting friendly lineup in baseball.
I’m not even dead-set against Melky, so you can spare the tone for someone who cares what you think.
Wrathchild - Maybe your name DOES reflect your personality! (Just joking.)
Yes, Melky’s OPS is not overly impressive. But you’re not addressing the age issue. You can’t compare a 21 year old’s OPS with that of someone who is 29. (And I like Church a lot, so don’t misinterpret that.)
If Melky and Crisp crap out this year, for whatever teams they are playing, I plan to revisit this blog and take my beating like a man.
If they play like I think they will, I plan to revisit this blog and be even more obnoxious to the nay sayers than I am now.
Dennis, that’s a fair point to make. I put a little more weight into career MLB ABs then age comparisons. But I think the argument of additional minor league ABs being a benefit is justifiable.
I am not convinced Melky won’t be a great player some day. My gut feeling, based on stats and watching him play, is that he will top-out as a 4th OFer. I just think we would have seen more from him by now.
ok we need to do this trade. its going to happen sooner then later so stop saying im in my fantasy world
santana for martinez church guerra pelfrey heilman
church for chase headly (they need a corner outfielder thats good.. though depends if you have trust in our 3rd baseman thats 19 years old or whatever.chase headly can be a future franchise guy though.)
nathan for kershaw (ya i think they would bite on a straight up one. if you think thats no enough add laroche or kemp) (and yes they need a closer.. how old is their closer? 39? lol)
cuddy for lester (they need a corner outfielder since jd drew isnt the answer ….)
2010 lineup would be this…
casilla ss
kubel dh
mauer c
young rf
morneau 1st
headly 3rd
martinez lf
revere/benson center
harris 2nd
you can move this lineup around but those are the guys..
pitchers:
liriano
lester
slowey
kershaw
robertson
closer: heilman or a good pitcher if we dont have room on the starting lineup
i think we should get rid of the veterans like cuddy and look for 2010 cause if we get rid of nathan and santana we aint looking for the present.. mine as well make use of it… that lineup could change though if we draft a 1st overall pick in 08 and hes ready by 2010.
what you guys think? i tryed the best i could not making trades lopsided..
Wrath,
I DO care what YOU think.
If you don’t care what I think, than I will stop annoying you now.
I knew you cared! Now you’re starting to make me care again, talking all sweet like that!
did craig send everyone away from this blog? cause it seems like no one is talking anymore..
Sane,
I’ll stand with you on Melky…
Dennis here is an opportunity for the Twins to help their infield with a trade of Joe Nathan.
To the Rangers for
German Duran 2B, and Chris Davis 3B and OF Freddy Guzman.
Guzman would make a GREAT 4th outfielder with a little pop, but a lot of speed.
Duran is a year a way, nad Davis maybe 2, but he has MONSTER POWER… Think Troy Glaus on steroids… or… well just Troy Glaus as he was on steroids.
The Yankee way (finally, some common and fiscal sense):
The Yankees, locking up one of their young stars, are on the verge of signing second baseman Robinson Cano to a four-year, $30 million contract, according to major-league sources.
—–
G AVG HR RBI R
160 .306 19 97 93
(It’s would not be Cano and others for Santana)
——–
The deal, which would take Cano through his arbitration years, also is expected to include club options that would enable the Yankees to buy out one or two years of free agency.
The contract would be contingent upon Cano passing a physical.
Cano, 25, was eligible for arbitration for the first time this off-season. He asked for $4.55 million and the Yankees offered $3.2 million.
A “super-two” player due to his service time, Cano was eligible for four years of arbitration rather than the customary three.
Cano appeared in 160 games for the Yankees last season, batting .306 and setting career-highs with 19 homers and 97 RBIs.
His career batting average in three major-league seasons is .314.
martinez guerra mulvey pelfrey pellot for johan’s left arm
throw in gomez and we give you his right arm..
can’t have a pitcher who don’t play defense
roundabout…
you missed it, I said nice things about Cabrera
BC,
I read your comments.. I was speechless LOL .. You are correct; he’s young and can get better
he CAN get better…… thats means he can or cant.. hes only 22 though and should probably still be in the minors right now if it wasnt for they needed him at age 20.. we wouldnt be in this talk and hed be a top prospect for the yankees if he was still in the farm…..
OK Roundabout,
In terms of next year, can you give an honest prediction regarding Hughes stats. I’ll figure a fudge factor based on the fact of you being a homer.
Phillip Hughes 2008 stats if he is 100% healthy
33 games started
1 complete game
14 wins
10 losses
181 innings pitched
177 hits
19 homers given up
89 walks
141 K’s
4.16 ERA
I think that’s a pretty fair assessment.
my guess on hughes is this
they say they wants the kids pitching around 150 innings, but hughes may be pressed into more then that..
the yank rotation will not be able to hold up.
hughes will end up around 160-180 innings
14-10 record era 4.50+
yanks offense scores runs, so that gives pitchers good records
Ian Kennedy 2008 if 100% Healthy
29 games started
0 complete game
11 wins
9 losses
146 innings pitched
161 hits
17 homers given up
61 walks
121 K’s
4.47 ERA
Joba Chamberlain
30 games started
0 complete game
12 wins
5 losses
168 innings pitched
149 hits
17 homers given up
100 walks
197 K’s
3.49 ERA
But I think Chamberlain blows his arm out pitching that many innings his “rookie” season
flop hughes,
which is why if santana went to the yankees he would have a 27-3 record.. the sad part is chin-ming-wang or whatever his name is if he was on a real team he would only win 10 games.. but the yankees score like 6+ runs a game so…..
BC,
I agree with the ERA but I would expect a much lower walk total of lets say 55-60
hahaa
lion. ya like that?
my nice flop hughes comment..
naw, hughes should be good..
but if he isnt, he already has a built in nickname
I’m interested did the Mets get Church because they knew the twins had some interest in him or did they trade for him and they are willing to give him up to get Santana.
Dan
I do not think the Church signing had anything to do with Santana. Because if the Mets still had Miledge, the Twins would have liked him better.
anyone think that boof could go to the yankees in their 1000 run team and win 20 games?
Bubba,
You are funny. Cause I am a Yankee fan, I can’t make an unbiased view about a Yankee LOL .. And you can about the Twins, then or whomever your team is.
Hughes will win close to 15 games, lose 7-10 ERA under 4.00; might start out with a high walks-hits but will bring it down..
Hughes, if healthy, going to become an excellent major league pitcher - the reason the Twins want him so badly.
And the Yanks make the playoffs
roundabout…
I think my numbers were pretty respectable… what do you think?
Rondabout
BC
I think your numbers will be in the ball park with Hughes final stats. They seem reasonable to me. I think Hughes ERA will be a bit lower and his walk-hits slightly better. I have no feel for his HR I don’t think he gave up many last year.
If healthy, Hughes will have some dominating starts.
I think Kennedy will do a little better than you predicted.
I don’t know about Joba as a starter.. except I know he can throw..
Roundabout,
Like I said, I’ll take your ERA prediction of 4.00 and add the homer fudge factor to come with a realistic ERA of 4.1 - 4.2. FYI, BOSOX fan here.
Bubba,
We’re going to have lots of fun this season.
Brian Leetch just came out to stand with Messier (Retiring Leetch’s number at the Garden tonight - the best of his generation)
Hmmm..an interesting twist. The Royals are in the Santana Race…
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/01/24/royals-leading-santana-race/
Great piece of writing.
This is not me and you guys doubt Lester
by Scott Ottersen
With Jon Lester as the fifth starter, it’s a given that this team will win 100 games. He might be the most talented young pitcher in the game today. He has proven himself a winner in limited time, so far. His career mark of 11-2 is impressive, but his true potential has not been tapped into yet. It is still to be seen if he can make it a full season, as a MLB starter, and if he can last the entire year, I’d imagine he would work himself up to the No. 2 spot in the rotation, and give the Red Sox two 20-game winners for years to come, considering Beckett is only turning 28 this season.
Note the “He might be the most talented young pitcher in the game today.”
Scott,
I like Lester but that is over the top.
None of his numbers except W-L are that good yet.
If the Red Sox believed that hype, then Lester, not Buchholtz would be untradable.
Its just one man’s opinion not shared by Lester’s own team.
like i said.. put boof in a ny yankee jersey and he would have 20 wins.. thats how bad you have to be to win games there….
I am taken by the he could give the Red Sox two 20 game winners for years to come.. it’s pretty darn hard for one pitcher on a team to win 20 games let alone two. And this doesn’t include Buchholz, who’s projected as better.
this Ottersen supposedly is a Yankee fan, lol
Last year Beckett was the only 20 game winner (5 19-game winners); 2006 no 20 gamers (2 19); 4 in 2005 (led by Willis’ 22); 3 in 2004; 5 in 2003; 6 in 2002 (5 19 gamers); 7 in 2001; 3in 2000 and 3 19 gamers.
Only in 2000 - Hudson and Glavine - were there two 20 gamers for one team.. But david Wells won 21 for Dodgers and Park won 18..
if they have this hype for lester they could have 4 20 game winners..
beckett bulcholtz matsusaka lester
they “could” win 120 games next year.. heck, the minnesota twins can go a perfect season lol
and the yankees will win 163 regular season games right?
And liondragon could hit the 20 mark too…
The 1971 Baltimore Orioles, with Dave McNally winning 21 and Pat Dobson, Mike Cuellar, and Jim Palmer victorious in 20 each, lost the World Series to the Pittsburgh Pirates, who had no 20-game winners.
roundabout,
i wish i could throw the ball to home plate and make it there without hitting someone before it got there LOL
Lion:
it’s a long throw from the mound on a little league field.. I tried throwing last year from third ona major league size field.. we’re still waiting for the ball to reach first
i know.. its like 120 feet from catcher to 2nd and like 120 feet from 3rd to first.. i wish i could throw it 80 mph like these guys do or atleast 70.. heck i wish my 40 mph fastball could make it there without hitting the catcher on the way there or the 2nd baseman. lol
this is from a local blog here..
This blog is generally a Jose Canseco-free zone because he’s a publicity-hungry clown.
But this latest bit of news is worth mentioning. According to a report in the Times, the FBI was contacted when Canseco tried to extort money out of Magglio Ordonez. In return for investing in a movie he wanted to make, Canseco would keep Ordonez’s name out of his book.
Ordonez elected not to press charges. “I don’t want any problems. He is probably desperate for money. I don’t understand why he is trying to put people down,” he said.
Canseco denied the charges. But then, this is the same guy who denied using steroids then wrote a book boasting about how great they were.
Let’s review for a second:
1. Professional journalist Don Yaeger passed on working with Canseco on his latest book, saying that his information is faulty. “I don’t think he’s got what he claims to have, certainly doesn’t have what he claims to have on A-Rod. There’s no meat on the bones,” Yeager said.
2. Canseco was dumped by his publisher, Berkley Books.
3. Canseco is now collaborating with Pablo Fenjves, the guy who teamed with O.J. Simpson to write If I Did It.
4. Now comes this latest story about extorting money.
You know what the sad part is? In late March, Canseco will leak information from his new book about Rodriguez and it will become a story just as the season is ready to start. He’ll find some unethical dupes to do his dirty work (probably WEEI in Boston; they love Canseco) and suddenly A-Rod will be surrounded by writers at his locker.
This is what baseball has become in the wake of the Mitchell Report. There never seems to be chance too just pick up and move on.
Lion,
My son played on the major league size field for the first time last autumn. There are lots of acres for those kids to cover. They are all better.. A grounder to third in little league might have been a hit. But with 90 foot bases.. it’s a far longer run. .
I was playing second during a pick-off steal drill, catching the throws, and my dear son almost took me out on a slide.. I almost slapped an extra hard tag on his head lol
roundabout,
think you can play better then punto? you could play dh if you dont wanna play defense. i think you could go place the bat in front of home plate right?
I can still hit.(even bunt) and turn on a fastball (not a Santana one lol ). I am not sure I can turn the DP too often.. Twins need a secondbaseman lol
roundabout,
not a santana one. maybe a zito one? 70 mph.
Scott,
I will take Fausto Carmona over Lester for top 24 yr-old pitcher.
So what do you guys think it means that Knobby has come up missing?
hawk,
i think he made it to canada by now…
Makes it seem like he has a lot to hide. He’s always been a strange character.
Roundabout. I have the 1971 WS on DVD. It is fantastic. I saw copy of it on vhs at an old library auction, and I burned it on to DVD… the tapes were practically falling apart.
Hawk?
Knoblauch went AWOL? That’s awesome… he’s either going to go to prison, or he will do what all Twins fans wanted when he came back from to Minnesota with the Yankees…
be found face down in a pool or something…
Sorry not nice, but Knoblauch might be the most hated former Twin that ever lived.
from to? I sometimes shame myself…
Came back from the infamous trade to the Yankees where the umps had to pause the games because of people throwing things at Knoblauch.
Why would Knobby run?
Just tell the truth and stay out of jail.
What does he have to lose? His legacy?
Sane,
Do you know what the author is cause I sure the hell don’t. It could be you or me if all we know. Hence my sarcasm when it comes to prospects.
The article posted about the Royals was great!
thank you
Just how bad do you think the awards dinner was tonight?
imo F-mart and Guerra are necessary components in any Johan package,After that either Pelfrey or Heilman.Pelfrey is type that Anderson would love to teach.Heilman is the type that is flexible enough to start or even close.That would give us flexibility in regards to Perkins and maybe Blackburn.Does anyone have a feel as to Young playing center?
Good Article La Velle
Now, When oh When will the Johan Saga End.
I was mildly surprised to read that we have not even been discussing resigning Johan..
I know, I know, he wants something like 6 years..
but atleast up our offer to 5. with a team option for a 6th maybe?!?
anyways..
how many season ticket holders do you think will be affected with the way this offseason has gone??
I for one, do not have season tickets. Its not my style… yet…
but i love baseball, and i will always root for the twins. so if i ever decide to purchase season tickets, i would keep that tradition going no matter what happens in the offseason.
unless of course the team got contracted or moved.
and if that would be the case. Lets go Brewers!! haha
Geno…
Young doesn’t feel comfortable out in center. Now they are throwing insanity against the same wall that Gardenhire bashes his head against and calls it thought… just to see if it sticks, and are now saying that Cuddyer is going to be discussed at CF!
I am starting to question who is worse… the Twins braintrust or the Timberwolves braintrust.
onto the new blog!
Wow, there are going to be some disappointed Twins fans when the trade is made. I don’t care which of the three teams you trade him to. No team is going to give up lots of young talent when they have to sign a player to a 7 year $ 140 million contract. I don’t care how good the player is, teams will only play 20 cents on the dollar when they have to pay so much cash.
You are going to be disappointed, just wait and see.
I’ve always been of the mindset that a 5-year contract might be doable.
Strange if he ends up staying - everybody’s mindset will have to completely change.
GENO,
Delmon Young played rightfield for his HIGH SCHOOL TEAM. (Camarillo HS, Camarillo, Ca)
I’m guessing if you can’t play CF for your high school team, you probably can’t play CF for the Twins.
I don’t know what the heck happened here yesterday, but I decided ban someone from posting here indefinitely because the person was just too over the top.
But I want to make a point: It’s fine to defend yourself if someone is taking a shot at you here. But ranting about it and calling people names in return only encourages more agitation.
I’m really sorry about the impersonation problem. I really am. But we also have to have thicker skin here.
LENIII–While you write that there haven’t been any talks recently with Santana about extending, have you heard definitively that the Twins have ruled out a fifth year of the extension? They offered a four year extension, and the difference between 5/93 and 6/113 should NOT be enough to keep the Twins from 6 years of having Johan Santana as their #1 pitcher.
To be honest with you, I don’t think Santana would accept that offer, which is why there hasn’t been any substantive talks lately.
6/113 is a non-starter? For a hometown extension? Wow, that is just amazing. I am trying to fathom them actually rejecting a 5/100 extension offer from the MINNESOTA TWINS, when no pitcher has ever gotten 20/year, ever.
AM,
Consider that Santana might rather play for a team that can afford his salary AND
pay for great players around him to win championships.
Children leave their hometowns frequently for opportunities elsewhere.
As a Twins fan I hate saying this, but if you want loyalty, get a dog.
LEN III,
When you write an article, you actually have to give credit to the proper source for you news details.
It was not a “Report out of New York” that said Ryan Church might be in a Santana to the Mets deal.
It was Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald who reported it. I thought in journalism you would credit the proper sources….
I’m referring to LEN III’s article today, btw….
Hey guys I am a NY Mets fan and I came on here interested to see how you guys feel as Twins fans. I see a split among you when it comes to a trade with the Mets. I have written on Metsblog that if I’m Omar I offer the following:
Choice of 2 of these players: Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Guerra
Choice of 1 of these players: F-Mart, Gomez
Choice of 2 of these players: Church, Heilman, Gotay, or Joe Smith
Would you as Twins fans pull the trigger on this deal? And which players would you choose from above if yes?
I think this offer blows away the Yanks and Twins. Crisp is horrible and is Hughes and overated Melky really enough? Thanks guys and good luck.
