The Liriano Report
Posted on March 7th, 2008 – 1:02 PMBy La Velle
Francisco Liriano gave up two hits and walked one in 1.2 innings on Friday during his spring training debut.
He threw 40 pitches, 25 for strikes.
According to a scout on hand at the game. Liriano’s fastball was clocked at 88-89-90 mph in the first inning. He hit 91 four times in the second inning. A pitcher’s velocity normally starts out down a few miles an hour but picks up during spring training. Joe Nathan, in his first spring with the Twins, was at 88-89 in early March.
The scout felt Liriano had a nice change up but his slider wasn’t very good. That’s not surprising. The breaking pitch is the hardest to get back after such a surgery.
106 Responses to "The Liriano Report"
Sounds like everything went as well as we could all realistically expect, which is great news.
I know so little about pitching mechanics, is his adjustment in form going to alter his slider, giving it more downward motion than a sweeping motion? I swear, before injury it was like he was using a whiffle ball…
I wish I could be “warming up” at 88-90mph.
For you stat heads out there, what’s the average speed a “mortal” can put on a ball comparred to the average pitcher?
I’m honestly curious.
From what I have heard the Twins are not really altering the delivery much, and relying on the added leg muscle to take some strain off the arm.
Gomez with a triple. 2-3 today, back to playing good ball. One bad game doesn’t mean he isn’t ready.
i think an ave. high school or college picher will top out in the low 80’s. jenny finch could hit in the high 60’s about the same as livan.
if liriano gave up 10 hits like livan i’d be worried. baby the guy there is no hurry.
Thanks LaVelle.
Sounds like he did ok. His first chance and he didn’t injure himself or look like he was laboring to throw. Those are the important things right now. I will bet he is back touching 93-95 by the time ST is over and I would hope his slider regains its old form.
Thanks, LEN3. Some of us were hearing that he got taken out so quickly, and were worried it was an injury situation. Sounds like a pretty good start for a first outing…establishing health is the key right now.
“He hit 91 four times in the second inning”
Like I just blogged, “Well warrior, sounds like Franchise is already pitching about the way Cytanna did last year with a great changeup and an ineffective slider.”
Lots of good news today — Monroe, Perkins, Franchise, Gomez…….
“One bad game doesn’t mean he isn’t ready.” I agree - just like one good game doesn’t mean he is ready.
Meanwhile on ESPN, Sabathia says he is “zero” worried about his contract situation. Sounded authentic.
Indians brought in Borowski early. The Cleveland closer lead the AL in saves last year with 45…..and a 5.07 ERA. CC says he has full confidence in him.
OOPS, there goes a HR…..a scorching line drive.
What’s the latest on the Nathan talks?
The Cleveland field is a mess. Light-colored grass, and today it’s soaked. A fly ball dropped and simply implanted into the field.
Blackburn looking pretty impressive today.
Pridie may be more consistent and more advanced than Gomez,
Let the BEST CF play when I am NOT watching.
BUT WHEN I go to the game, I’d rather see Gomez in CF even if his throws are flying over my head.
Gotta love the excitement of watching him run, hit (when he does) and throw -LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!
Mets pitcher Oliver Perez looked pretty good, but the field conditions caused misplays and lost outs. So his stats today will look awful.
That’s why eye witness accounts are the only useful info, especially in ST. So thanks again to all you reporters!
Kruk says, of course, that not much of this ST stuff counts until the last start or two of ST for the starters and the last week or two for position players.
T-
I pitched in high school. I’d say my velocity was average compared to other teams we faced. My heaters were about 70, maybe 75 if I ate my wheaties that morning. Not a chance I ever hit 80.
Thanks Mik. All I remember is the pitch machines at carnivals and topping out at 45-50 when I’m “throwing my arm off” so to speak.
There are kids in Little League that throw 70-75. High schoolers have to be in the low 80s.
T-
I pitched in high school too. And I was lucky to touch 70. Of course, I had no one to help me with my mechanics (terrible coaching). But even with some help, I doubt I would have ever hit 80.
I doubt the adult average ordinary Joe who likes to play catch gets it up to 60.
Pitching is all about legs and extension. The stronger your legs, the better your extension (toward home plate) which increases the velocity to the batter. Liriano’s added leg strength will be the ‘difference’ if he succeeds with a strong ‘08 season.
Good luck Twins!
Paul G, I agree with your comment. From the reports he has looked good in his other appearances.
off question…
anyone know why i still cant get a password to my email for access vikings?
its been 3 days
btw i really like how cisco is doing.. really has outshowed himself coming back from tj surgery
I realize spring training doesn’t mean much but it’s hard not to get over excited on a day like this when so many hitters and pitchers are having good days.
Very encouraging day from both games.
There are kids in Little League that throw 70-75. High schoolers have to be in the low 80s.
But aren’t those the same kids who blow their arm out after a year because a kids arm isn’t meant to be doing that?
Halfchest, other than a few games early, the Twins have hit the cover off the ball in ST. That is a good sign I would say, even if it is ST.
One other opinion from me. Dennys Reyes is done. He was terrible last year and has been thus far during spring. Twins need to get someone to take over his role.
Can we get an update of who scored what runs, please?
Kubel drove in Machado with the last run..Kubel has 2 groundouts, a hit and run scored.
if monroe get back his 2006 form, i would say this offense will be as good as any in baseball, as long as everyone else plays up to their expectations..1-8 would be so very solid…could you imagine 30+ hr from morneau, monroe, young, good power from cuddyer, mauer, lamb, kubel and great speed from casilla, pridie,gomez,harris, punto,..thats an offensive group that could be more than exciting and should easily average over 4.0 runs/game which, with decent pitching could turn into quite a winning and surprising season…i would never rule out a wild card
CHEERS mj1. Finally somethat sees it the way I do.
I’ve been around LL a long time and have never seen a kid throw 70-75 mph. I’m talking 12 year olds when I talk about little league - most stud pitchers are in the low 60’s (if they are lucky); the average 12 yo will through around 50 mph. Don’t be misled by the LL World Series you see on ESPN - almost all of those kids are already 13 years old and I’ve been told those radar guns in Williamsport measure 5 mph or more too high.
Easy yapper……hit the cover off the ball? You’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
And I have no idea what you’re talking about when you blast Reyes. You don’t like his 0.00 ERA this spring? And he looked more than okay on TV last week.
Machado scores Howie Clark on hit off Okajima 7-1…
mj1, 4 runs/game? That would be a very sad state for the Twins offense if they only average 4 runs a game.
Twins 6 Red Sox 1 in the 6th
Morneau and Monroe both have HOME RUNS!
Thanks, CharlieMurphy, for the link to the terrifically interesting Liriano story.
rob i dont have stats, but it just seems to me last year i remember comments from the announcers that we were losing alot of games because we were only scoring about 3 runs and losing alot of games with the opposing clubs scoring 4 or more–i know we lost alot of close games that were low scoring…
Richard
I’m from Coon Rapids and have seen the pitchers throw that were in Williamsport last year and I can promise you, the three guys that started games can hit 70. The radar guns are correct.
4-0 final at Dunedin. 5 hitter.
Gomez 2-3, Ruiz 3-4/HR.
“There are kids in Little League that throw 70-75. High schoolers have to be in the low 80s.”
I pitched in HS as well, and no one was hitting the 80’s. Low to mid 70’s are about as fast as you will see with most in the low to mid 60’s. There may be a few that can throw some real heat, but they are few and far.
I also went to a Reds tryout camp, and even there the average speeds were not that great with the scouts looking for 80 as something of interest. There were not that many.
That would be a very sad state for the Twins offense if they only average 4 runs a game
I’d be interested in seeing Average Runs per game by each team (or at least the 8 playoff teams)
The offense looks like it’s clicking. A good offense that can average 5 runs a game should be enough for an experienced staff. This year it may be tough, but if guys like Boof, Baker, Liriano, and Blackburn/Slowey produce s well as they’ve shown they can (more so Blackburn then Slowey) it’d be more than enough.
4/ game would give the Twins 648 runs for the year which would indeed be sad. Last year I think they even had over 700 runs for the year
someone asked what speed ‘mortals’ can throw at. I play amatuer ball in the Crow River Valley League (which produced the MN State champ Plato blue Jays last year in class C and a few years prior the Green Isle Irish).
The best pitchers in our league will hit about 85 mph tops, theres one guy who might be able to hit 90, but most guys who have been pitching for a while will be in the low 80’s at their best. Most common would be about mid to high 70’s, it pretty damn hard to throw 80, let alone 90.
I have one career at bat against the flamethrower who might be able to hit 90, it was the 9th inning and we were down 5-4 with guys on 2nd and 3rd (due to errors). I fouled one pitch into the 1st base line (other team’s thank god) duguout, thats as close as I could get, struck me out on 4 or 5 pitches. I basically had to decide before the pitch was thrown if I wanted to swing, its amazing how quick that ball comes in at those speeds, MLBers definitely are in another world in that regard.
All this “average” high school talk… well let me “date” myself and say that I was a catcher in high school and legion in the mid to late 90’s. There are certainly high school kids who throw in the low to mid 80’s, but its not the average player.
Average high school speed would be in the mid 70’s.
Little Leaguers speeds are misleading because they are so close… if they had to throw the whole high school distance they’d be throwing much lower than 70.
Hope this clears up stuff. Matt, C’mon!
mj1 could be on to something. 5 runs a game could be achievable. So many things have to click though.
HS kids can throw in the low 80’s. At 13 I was clocked at 77. Great stuff but blew my arm out. Screwed with the curve too young. No Tommy John surgery and the arm, to this day in my 30’s, doesn’t extend all the way. 2 morals here, 1. don’t pitch your best little leaguer every other game, and 2. It takes a lot of luck for these guys to reach the bigs. Played ball overseas and in S. Cali with a lot of guys who can throw in the 80’s low 90’s who blew arms in HS and college and won’t get a look because of past injuries.
T- here’s a link to the MSNBC baseball standings page that has runs/game for all teams last year:
T,
The Twins scored 718 runs last year or 4.4 runs per game and they were 25th in the league.
If they could get it up to 800 runs or about 4.9 runs per game then they would be about 10th and that would be great, especially for the Twins. I think it’s at least somewhat realistic for that to happen. 4 runs per game last year would have put the Twins dead last in the league by 30 runs overall.
The champion Red Sox got 5.35 runs per game.
Averaging four runs per game is bad because sometimes you get 8 or more which skews the average up.
If, however you could score four runs in every single game, you would win a lot of games.
Problem is if you score 2,2,2,2,and 12.
You have just averaged 4 runs and your record is 1-4.
I go to Players Inc. baseball training center in Eden Prairie every once in awhile to do some hitting, I have to laugh at all the parents who bring their kids in there and have e’m hit in the 84 mph and 92 mph cages. most HS ballplayers are never going to see a guy who can hit 84, let alone the 90’s, all they are doing is screwing up their kids swings and frustrating them in the process…
Those little leaguers are also pitching closer then the major’s/high school. If you moved them back to 60 feet 6 inches they would be much slower…
GolfGuy81: You’re stealing my thunder and my ideas!! See my previous… lol. Let’s not get repetitive in here.
Romer, I don’t have much faith in him after last season. I also didn’t get to watch him on TV this year yet. Maybe he will be fine, how does he look healthwise? Meaning, has he eaten himself almost to death like he did last year.
Yes I know that is a little too excited, and I know what they have. But it is just nice to see them hit the damn ball for once and put up some runs. Course all of this is meaningless, but nice to see them score 6,8,8,7,8 in their last 5 and now a bunch more today.
My brother definitely hit the low/mid 80s in high school. But he was all-conference and went on to be a perennial all-conference college pitcher. Seeing 83-85 in high school is your premier stuff.
Funny you say that because I went back and read and just saw that.
Oh well, at least we’re backing each other up!
You’re the thunder and I am the weak, faint lightning
Why would it be slower at 60 feet as opposed to 46 feet? Is it because you’re reading the pitch further from the pitcher?
So ESPN just spent a long time discussing Liriano with Kruk, Amy what’s-her-name, and Mouthpiece.
Just a reiteration of the link CharlieMurphy gave us at 2:17…..except for the usual misstatements, like Liriano has more major league experience than the other starters on the Twins staff.
Matt, its the distance the ball has to travel. A pitch is at its fastest at its release, but it has to obey the laws of physics, it slows down as it travels over a distance. Shorter distance means its going to be a higher speed because there is less distance it has to travel, less air resistance etc… to slow it down.
Jim & Golf Guy,
You’re not making sense. 70 is 70 whether you’re 46 ft away or 60.5 ft away. The difference is, once you turn baseball 13 and have to pitch to the big diamond, the reaction time for the hitter increases as you’re on the big field now. Just because my 13 yr old son is now playing on the big diamond doesn’t mean he throws slower (just takes longer to travel the farther distance). Regarding speed, he throws about 65 and is considered at about 85%ile for 13 yr olds according to the training center. Now, if he could just throw strikes.
CF - Derby
Pridie .286
Gomez .222
Span .167
Problem is, I cut Gomez yesterday.
I wonder if we can get him back.
all they are doing is screwing up their kids swings and frustrating them in the process…
No kidding. I can’t imagine what it would be like to adjust to swinging at a 90mph ball only to go into a game and try to completely retime a 70mph pitch.
you also throw the ball differently whether you realize it or not at 46 ft compared to 60′6″. THere definitely is a difference in speed that will register on a radar gun when throwing at different distances, you can argue you’re still throwing the same speed (essentially you are) but it doesn’t correlate to actual results. its pretty much a proven fact a pitch at 46 ft will register as faster than at 60′6″.
I’m not trying to agrue at all but I guess I just want to figure this out.
The resistence is the same whether you are throwing from 60 or 46 feet, right? So wouldn’t that mean you’re just reading the pitch with the gun at the 50 foot mark as opposed to the 35 foot mark.
I see where physics comes into it and it obviously would be slower by the time it gets to the batter, but isn’t the pitch going the same speed at the 45 foot mark in both circumstances?
“A pitch is at its fastest at its release, but it has to obey the laws of physics, it slows down as it travels over a distance.”
Wow, what a terrible and incorrect understanding of physics.
TMW, you obviously have an incorrect understanding of the physics of throwing a baseball then…
TMW, there is no disputing that a pitch is at its fastest at its released. The only forces operating on the baseball after it leaves the pitcher’s hand are gravity and friction (air resistance). Both forces tend to slow the ball.
Funny … I heard Pat Reusse say on that sportalk TV show Sunday night Liriano was 20 pounds overweight and throwing only 45 miles per hour … hmmm…. could Reusse be wrong about something regarding sports?
Keep(JohanAndTorii)AtAnyPrice has it correct.
Max velocity is at release point.
The ball slows down every foot of the way.
Average velocity over 60ft-6in. is slower than average velocity over 46 feet.
No, Ruesse is an expert on overweight.
I’ll give you this example, a car stays at the same speed when driving because it has a motor constantly pushing it forward. The only point in throwing a baseball where force is being put behind it is at the release, it will accelerate for a short period of time, but will slow down. and since I threw acceleration into the mix, you might say over that distance the ball is still constantly accelerating, well to that i say the same rule still applies, the acceleration of the ball will be decreased as it travels over a distance. If you have a Masters in physics and can prove me wrong, give me evidence, but I have an engineering degree and a strong understanding of ‘physics’ and have played baseball my entire life. any other questions?
Sane has a good clarification, average velocity will be slightly slower at 60 ft vs. 46 ft. But, I believe radar guns only measure at a point somewhere near the release point (certainly not the last 14 ft), therefore, I think what you typically you hear as pitch speed is the “max velocity”.
I played college ball and have coached high school. Mid 70’s is average to good in high school. 80’s is great in high school. Anything in the 80’s is good in college. Upper 80’s will get you drafted, especially if you are left handed.
Oo, Tyner is up on ESPN. Takes the count to 2-1, and ………….oh, a grounder to short.
Gravity would not slow the ball, it would accelerate it downwards but if there was no air resistance it would keep the same horizontal velocity that it started with. Air resistance does significantly slow the ball by the time it reaches the catcher. Same thing in tennis; you see the players serving the ball at around 140 mph but by the time it reaches the other player it is barely half that.
/BS in Astrophysics
Most high school kids will be pitching in the high 60s and low 70s. In college you will see more kids hitting the low to mid 80s. Any little leaguer throwing in the mid 70s is EXCEPTIONAL and not the norm. Also remember that different radar guns will vary by a large margin, JUGS guns typically read faster than most other guns. Speed is important but I had a college teammate who topped out in the mid 60s and dominated some vary good competition.
And now the son of Tommy Herr is up. AND HE RIPS ONE TO CENTER AND…..it’s caught.
Next time, Aaron.
anyway, lets hope Liriano throwing today is another small step forward in returning to form. have a good one all…
T
I didn’t read through all of the comments on here, but pitch speed varies greatly among kids… a lot of it is genetics, and natural techniques… It’s becoming more of a science where you can go to a center and dial up an arm 4-9 miles per hour in a 6 to 9 week training session. It’s amazing, but I know I topped out at about 78mph in high school, and freshman year in college with some new techniques as a walk on I was able to add 5 mph, and that was in 91-92. I of course blew out my arm, and thus am an armchair whiner… I mean blogger, but I know one of the kids I worked with was throwing at 85 mph in high school, and was up to 91 mph in college… He’s trying to schedule some tryouts for major league teams this spring so I’m kind of excited, but that’s not part of this. Basically… speed isn’t how kids blow out their arms… it’s curveballs, sliders, screwballs, split-finger fastballs, and forkballs that require more torque on the elbow, and range in the shoulder that cause the major arm injuries. The fast ball just tends to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back… gets weak with the off speed pitches, and then is popped/severed/torn with a fastball.
If there is a doctor out there that can let me know if I’m off I’d appreciate, but that is what I was told back in 1993 when I was rehabbing my arm just so I could play catch again. I’ll never be able to hit 70 without serious pain.
Gravity will have no effect on a baseball’s speed on it’s horizantal vector, as gravity only works to accellerate the ball straight down, not slow how “fast” it’s crossing the plate. The only thing slowing the ball along it’s horizontal vector is air resistance. If you take physics out of it, throwing the shorter distance to a target the same height off the ground would lead to a steeper downward throwing angle (assuming the release point is above the target), which might affect velocity.
I also find it interesting that, historically, baseball has always had “flame throwers,” even before we knew much about all the mechanics and sports physiology behind throwing a ball to a catcher. If I’m not mistaken, Walter Johnson was regarded as having an incredibly powerful arm, and of course Bob Feller was considered capable of hitting triple digits.
No point really, I just like thinking about the footage of Walter Johnson’s delivery…it was so smooth.
Keep…
I am familiar with the facility you mention. On Sat’s. there is a wood bat league with ‘live’ pitching. These are all HS age players, 15-17/18. Several of these pitchers (from all over the Metro) regularly touch the low to mid 80’s (aal are kept on strict pitch count). I’d venture to say that these are players are Varsity level players (or will be this year). More than a couple of them are young, soph’s and juniors. Hearsay is that a few are being followed by various scouts.
I’m not saying that these players are elite or extraordinary, or that they will even play college ball or higher…just that it seems fairly common for ‘very good’ HS players to throw in the 80’s.
As for the hitting cages, the scenario you speak of is a bit ridiculous (for many of the guys trying to succeed in those cages).
Liriano even in his stunted growth so far is as good as Slowey ever was.
So even if he makes no improvement other than normal-course improvement by stretching it up to 6 innings+ and by velocity increasing 2-3 mph during that stretching process, he’ll still be on the starting staff.
(And Slowey can fight Blackburn for the 5th starter position.)
So there should be no angst anymore re Franchise. And I’m betting he knows it.
He told ESPN he doesn’t feel any pressure at all. All that kind of stuff occurred a year ago.
He’s merely on a learning curve and is dealing with the mental management of his new approach to pitching.
THAT’s where the improvement possibility is. And you have to be optimistic about THAT too.
He could easily be one of the top two Twins starters THIS year.
if monroe get back his 2006 form, i would say this offense will be as good as any in baseball, as long as everyone else plays up to their expectations..
If Monroe is in 2006 form he’ll put up another hideous OBP around .300 and hurt this offense with the sheer number of outs he makes.
romer,
I’d throw Perkins into the mix for the 5th spot, and have Slowey currently in third place.
Funkytown, to start the season at least, Baker/Boof/Livan are a given; right? Cuz Baker and Boof have been doing well in ST, and the three of them are the vets.
I’ll grant you that Perkins has as good a shot as Blackburn and Slowey. I didn’t mean to overlook him.
But at this time, I can’t imagine Liriano not in the starting rotation —– unless he has a setback.
Right, romer…
I agree with your evaluation.
Will be curious as to whom the Twins will keep with that last spot.
Humber has comeback from a slow start as well….
Rochester’s pitching staff will definitely have a couple guys who lose out on the last starter/reliever job simply by being outperformed.
not an entirely bad situation.
Looks like any of Humber, Perkins, Slowey, or Blackburn could be a 5th start for a lot of teams.
I’m not discouraged with Slowey yet. Looks like he still has a typical ST weaker arm, and his command is a little off.
So when and how will the Twins make their decision(s)? Looks like they have 8 viable candidates, 7 of whom are doing well right now. What if all 8 do?
How can they give them all enough work to get them up to 5/6 innings in the next three weeks to determine who they’ll go with!??!!?
Cuz they still have to give the bullpen innings too. (Although Neshek looks ready, and Gurrier is no problem, and Nathan doesn’t need a lot of innings — one inning at a time for him.)
T,
Here’s the answer to your question about the 2007 playoff teams avg. runs per game during the regular season:
Yankees: 5.97
Phillies: 5.51
Red Sox: 5.35
Rockies: 5.28 (163 games of course)
Angels: 5.07
Indians: 5.01
Cubs: 4.64
D-backs: 4.40
Twins averaged 4.43, so only better than 1 playoff teams.
The 2006 Twins, FTR average 4.94 runs per game (13th overall in MLB). So if the Twins offense can just be in the top half of MLB in runs scored and maintain solid pitching and defense they should be able to win.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/news/story?id=3280324
The fact that Liriano experienced pain during his rehab (albeit medically-anticipated pain) and didn’t say anything really worries me as a Twins fan. Young players often have a hard time parsing out “good pain” from “bad pain,” especially when the world is telling them “you’re a phenom, just take the mound.” The reason some guys can seemingly stay healthy and have long careers is because they stick to their regimens during the year and are able to recognize good pain from bad pain. Look at Pat Neshek–his noticeable decline last year, he says, was due to the fact that he stopped lifting and training mid-year. I’d really like to see Liriano take it slow this year. While there is a litany of players who never fully recovered from Tommy John, there are others who came back just as strong, if not stronger (Erik Bedard for instance). If Liriano does it right, doesn’t rush things and is honest with himself and trainers about any arm problems, he could be a guy who comes back stronger.
Here’s to hoping!
Just listen to Rick Anderson on XM radio. He basically said that Liriano will be the Opening Day starter if he continues to stretch out without injury. That is great news!
Liriano for Opening Day!!!!
This team actually could be really competative and if they were in the AL West I think they could actually compete for the division title. Everybody thinks I am crazy, but I think that the Indians are not that much better than the Twins. They are built in similar ways and I would take our nucleus of the next few years over theirs. Morneau, Liriano, Mauer, Young, Gomez, Cuddyer over Hafner, Carmona, Martinez, Sizemore, Peralta, Garko. They have better pitching at the top of the rotation and more veteran expierence, but their depth is not any better than ours. We also have 7 or 8 guy depth in our starting rotation. Not to mention they are going to LOSE Sabathia at the end of this season and only get draft picks. We at least got Gomez and Guerra who are much more proven than draft picks. Thats going to leave them with Carmona, Westbrook, Miller, Sowers compare that to Liriano, Baker, Blackburn, Slowey. The Tigers are going to win this division especially since offense will almost always translate into regular season victories. However, if they get a couple injuries to say Bonderman and Rogers they will be very vulnerable. Give it a couple years and this division is going to be a dogfight between the Twins, Indians and yes the Royals.
I think we can expect a 15-9 3.40 185 inning type season out of Liriano. I really don’t think he will be spectacular this year, but he will be very solid if just below all-star level. I think next year he can become a Santana type guy again and will be able to be a 200+ inning guy who will win 20 games and have a sub 3.00 era. I really think that in a 100 pitch game he shouldn’t use that slider more than about 15 times. It should strictly be an out pitch on 1-2 and 2-2 counts. He should rely more heavily on his changeup earlier in the counts to get hitters off balance and mess with their timing. Throwing his slider less will actually make it even more of a dominant pitch because hitter will have less of a chance to see it until they have two strikes and are on the ropes. I think that he will get that slider back the more that he works on it. He doesn’t even need to get back to 97 on the fastball and 91 on the slider. With better control and use of his changeup he could be just as dominant throwing 93-94 on his fastball and 87-88 on his slider.
It is really too bad that we can’t field a Santana-Liriano combo because that would be phenomenal. We got cheated and only got to see that for a couple months in 2006. I would have loved to see what they could accomplish together over a whole season. I think we could have won the 2006 World Series if he wouldn’t have blown out his elbow in August. Oh well sometimes it sucks to be a Minnesota sports fan.
46 feet for small field (60′ diamond), 60′6″ on the big field.
As has been explained above, the further the ball travels, the more it slows down.
I coached in LL & umpire now (Juniors & Seniors, which is 90′ diamond). The “better” (meaning “good”, not “phenom”) pitchers will be low-mid 70’s.
The best I’ve seen from a high school kid (17 or 18 year old senior, and I was watching the game, not working it) was low 90’s from a kid out of Vero Beach a couple of years ago - - - there were a bunch of scouts with radar guns behind home plate that day. He was SIGNIFICANTLY faster than anyone my son’s team saw that year.
As a recent HS coach, if a HS pitcher is throwing 80+ mph and can at least find the plate he will be able to play college ball. Most HS pitchers touch the high 70s. Good ones might touch the low to mid 80s. Elite ones may touch 90.
But that is beside the point. The original question was how fast to average Joes throw… my guess is right around 60 mph.
Zach,
I don’t think the Franchise would have helped us win the WS in 2006. The offense is what sucked against the A’s and led to the sweep more than the pitching did.
Yapper, Reyes looks like he did last season, and has pitched about as good as a guy can so far. Get to like him, he’s here to stay.
What cost us any chance in 2006 was the silly celebration for backing into the title. No way that ever should of happened. We were hot, on a historic ride, and partied away the momentum. I blame Gardy.
I will say this now and on April 1st please play Gomez and Casilla. I think it will be entertaining to see speed and power in this lineup. They both need work but look at cuddyer how long they bounced him around and when he got the opportunity he produced. I hate the lack of agressiveness twins have some times. Get NICK PUNTO and SELL him. I dont want him near the metrodome unless he is selling hot dogs. Lets see the next couple of years NOW not wait till next year to roll them out. If we win with the younger guys more power to us and if they struggle are any of us going to lose too much sleep especially losing Johan and Hunter. Same with pitching. Remember sometimes we have to take steps back before we can move forward. Right now with core guys and some young guys gomez, casilla, harris and young pitching we should be competitive. Rockies won with young talent. Hope your listening or reading Gardy it may save your job one day. Especially my advice on PUNTO. Later I can not wait for opening day!!!
Oh puhLEEZE. The most improbable division championship in my memory, and you think they shouldn’t have CELEBRATED? Everyone gave up on them, and they won. They earned the right to enjoy the moment.
What’s with all the positivity on this blog today? Beantown,where are you?
Liriano could be The Cisco Kid, as someone said earlier. I always thought Hunter’s nickname could have been
The Thief or something due to the fact that he robbed batters of so many hits.
Gotta love Ruesse’s article today. Always the downer isn’t he?
I can just see it now:
“Jesus returns to Earth, Doesn’t bring cookies.”
T,
Classic headline!!
